Re: [Mutt] Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[Mihai Lazarescu]

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 14:34:39 +, Nacho via Mutt-users wrote:


> In 2022 I find astonishing how much of Microsoft's antispam seems
> to rely on lists (addresses, IP blocks…). Leading to annoying
> false positives, with rates well higher than Google's.

Those "false positives" are clearly made on purpose to boycott independent mail
providers, it doesn't matter if an IP sends less than 10 emails per day on
average during years and has never been black listed in any public list, it will
stay on Microsoft blacklist forever and there is no easy/cheap way to remove it.

And of course, they will never tell you WHY they have blacklisted you in the
first place.


Yes, and explicitly so — see the reply from 
Microsoft Agent 2 years ago on answers.microsoft.com 
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook_com/forum/all/microsoft-repeatedly-blocking-ip-and-now-refusuing/c1855c68-a7a5-41fd-a4f3-3b1ee7555748


"IPs not previously used to send email typically don't have any 
reputation built up in Outlook.com systems. As a result, emails 
from new IPs are more likely to experience deliverability issues. 
Once the IP has built a reputation for not sending spam, 
Outlook.com will typically allow for a better email delivery 
experience. However, since you've already tried submitting a 
delist request, it should rectify the issue."


In other words, for their service/business small users must 
(periodically) fight for relevance (or fringes don't matter, 
whichever you prefer).


That's one reason I continue to advise anyone against using 
Microsoft services.


And I use my Microsoft work email just as a dumb transit. I 
download then both the Inbox and Junk folder contents and filter 
them on my notebook with Spamassassin and other rules.


Mihai

Re: [Mutt] Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[Nuno Silva via Mutt-users]

On 2022-09-12, Mihai Lazarescu wrote:

>> Mihai Lazarescu  wrote on Mon, 12 Sep 2022 at
>> 15:07:37 EDT in :
>>
>> > Only Microsoft (outlook.com, hotmail.com) seem to filter the whole
>> > IP block, but I am too lazy to ask the provider to fix or change
>> > provider altogether.
[...]
> 1. [...] For work contacts on
> Microsoft servers I use the work email (also on Microsoft).
[...]
> That being said, I found at work that Microsoft uses a very crude spam
> filtering (kind of 1980s database-driven). E.g., it indiscriminately
> junks all messages from almost any mailing list I join. Moreover, if I
> un-junk the messages, Outlook behind the scenes whitelists the *sender
> address*, not the list address/ID. Thus:
>
> - I've got myself a never ending job to move legit messages out of the
> spam folder for every new sender seen on lists
>
> - I end up with a huge whitelist of people I don't personally know
>
> - if I go and clear the Outlook-built whitelist, the spam filter
> behavior resets: all messages from the lists are junked, etc. (hence
> my strong feeling that it's db.whitelist-driven).
>
> Besides, at the switch to Microsoft systems the sysadmins strongly
> advised to carefully check the junk folder for important messages. And
> I also found that Microsoft junked its own automated notifications,
> e.g., for OneDrive shares. Go figure…
>
> In 2022 I find astonishing how much of Microsoft's antispam seems to
> rely on lists (addresses, IP blocks…). Leading to annoying false
> positives, with rates well higher than Google's. Microsoft's antispam
> filters may very well include some well hidden adaptive smartness,
> though. ;-)

They do, at least for domains which have bought MS's email "protection"
service or the full cloud-based MS e-mail hosting. Microsoft calls it
SmartScreen[1], and, with this, emails can get silently dropped -
accepted but not shown anywhere in the recipient's mailbox, not even in
the Junk folder.

These dropped messages get sent to a separate "quarantine"
feature. While non-admin users can access this and (at least from what
I've read) see their quarantined messages[2], users have to know about
this feature first.

[1] 
https://www.nerd-quickies.net/2020/10/20/microsoft-silently-dropping-emails-a-sad-but-true-story/
[2] https://guides.downstate.edu/c.php?g=654922=4870487

-- 
Nuno Silva

Re: [Mutt] Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[Nacho via Mutt-users]

> In 2022 I find astonishing how much of Microsoft's antispam seems 
> to rely on lists (addresses, IP blocks…). Leading to annoying 
> false positives, with rates well higher than Google's. 

Those "false positives" are clearly made on purpose to boycott independent mail
providers, it doesn't matter if an IP sends less than 10 emails per day on
average during years and has never been black listed in any public list, it will
stay on Microsoft blacklist forever and there is no easy/cheap way to remove it.

And of course, they will never tell you WHY they have blacklisted you in the
first place.

The way to overcome that is to have several mail servers and domains, one way or
other you always overpass Hotmail censorship.

Re: Re: [Mutt] Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[Jan Eden via Mutt-users]

On 2022-09-12 21:59, bastian-muttu...@t6l.de wrote:
> On 12Sep22 21:07+0200, Mihai Lazarescu wrote:
> > Given the cheap VPS, I can mirror the setup on a second VPS from a different
> > provider with quick DNS switch in case of issues.
> 
> I just did that approx half a year ago. Before, everything was rolling 
> just fine (for more than 10 yrs). No dead ends of my outgoing mails. 
> After transferring the domain over to the new hoster, some destinations 
> did not receive my mails. Either filtered into spam, some got denied 
> (where I got a nice SMTP error reply) and some just got silently 
> dropped.

> This took me some time to figure out with each destination, why is that 
> happening. And sometimes also just guessing. At least the 
> mail-tester.com rate is 10/10, so it is not about my setup per se.

Now that this thread has steered off-topic already, I dare to hijack it
some more: My own setup had a score below 10/10, because my PTR record
pointed to eden.one, while my mailserver's hostname was mail.eden.one.

I changed the hostname (and the Dovecot/Postfix config) to eden.one, but
subsequently found a couple of serverfault threads (related to the
MxToolbox warning "Reverse DNS is not a valid Hostname") advising
against this setup:

https://serverfault.com/questions/711600/reverse-dns-is-not-a-valid-hostname-error-from-mxtoolbox/
https://serverfault.com/questions/599712/best-practices-for-fqdn-for-standalone-domain-is-a-two-part-domain-tld-okay/599725#599725

While I did run into a problem initially (overlapping mydestination and
mailbox_virtual_domains in the Postfix configuration disrupted email
delivery to Dovecot virtual mailboxes), the new setup now works quite
well (and delivers a 10/10 score at mail-tester.com).

Do you consider a PTR record pointing to a bare domain (eden.one) a
serious issue? Or are there any downsides to pointing the PTR record to
mail.eden.one? According to Cloudflare, reverse DNS lookups are mainly
used for mailservers anyway – but are they relevant for other services
(nginx etc) running on the same server at all?

> The IP and/or subnet my VPS was in had a bad reputation at some
> denylist services. Question was then, how to get removed from them.
> Sometimes via automated forms and sometimes through personal
> mail-conversation with other mail operators (t-online.de was very nice
> and responsive to my surprise).

I had exactly the same impression of the postmaster team at T-Online.de
just two weeks ago: https://eden.one/2022/8/schwarzgelistet :)

Thanks,
Jan



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Re: [Mutt] Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[Mihai Lazarescu]

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 16:25:12 -0400, John Hawkinson wrote:


Mihai Lazarescu  wrote on Mon, 12 Sep 2022 at 15:07:37 EDT in 
:

> It took some work to set it up, but that's it. Surely not a mass solution, 
yet feasible and stable.
...
> Only Microsoft (outlook.com, hotmail.com) seem to filter the whole IP block, 
but I am too lazy to ask the provider to fix or change provider altogether.

This is hard to take seriously. Precise numbers are hard come to by, but I 
think Microsoft is the number 2 hosting provider, globally, after Google/Gmail, 
and has a substantial market share. Deciding that it's OK to not worry about 
them suggests a very different attitude toward email reliability and 
interoperability than most people would choose.


I never claimed that my specific case is universal:

1. I only have one contact on Hotmail and then I can use Google 
SMTP. I had my domain registered for use on Google Workspace 
(or whatever was the name earlier) long before I switched 
to the homegrown. And I still keep Google as safeguard if 
something-tragic-happens with my servers. For work contacts on 
Microsoft servers I use the work email (also on Microsoft).


2. The IP-block-on-antispam-lists is just an issue of the 
current provider (a convenient $12/y, checked it in the 
meantime). No issues before this provider. Nevertheless, this 
should be checked, and/or seek contractual guarantees, and/or 
be prepared to switch on short notice. Or use reputable email 
hosting providers, as someone mentioned earlier.



That being said, I found at work that Microsoft uses a very 
crude spam filtering (kind of 1980s database-driven). E.g., 
it indiscriminately junks all messages from almost any mailing 
list I join. Moreover, if I un-junk the messages, Outlook 
behind the scenes whitelists the *sender address*, not the 
list address/ID. Thus:


- I've got myself a never ending job to move legit messages out 
of the spam folder for every new sender seen on lists


- I end up with a huge whitelist of people I don't personally know

- if I go and clear the Outlook-built whitelist, the spam filter 
behavior resets: all messages from the lists are junked, etc. 
(hence my strong feeling that it's db.whitelist-driven).


Besides, at the switch to Microsoft systems the sysadmins 
strongly advised to carefully check the junk folder for important 
messages. And I also found that Microsoft junked its own 
automated notifications, e.g., for OneDrive shares. Go figure…


In 2022 I find astonishing how much of Microsoft's antispam seems 
to rely on lists (addresses, IP blocks…). Leading to annoying 
false positives, with rates well higher than Google's. 
Microsoft's antispam filters may very well include some well 
hidden adaptive smartness, though. ;-)


Best,
Mihai

Re: Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[John Hawkinson]

(Replying to Mihai, but keeping Bastian's subject-line change...an operation 
which Mutt is not great at, but better than most...I dunno what to do with 
In-Reply-To/References: here, tho.)

Mihai Lazarescu  wrote on Mon, 12 Sep 2022
at 15:07:37 EDT in :

> It took some work to set it up, but that's it. Surely not a mass solution, 
> yet feasible and stable.
...
> Only Microsoft (outlook.com, hotmail.com) seem to filter the whole IP block, 
> but I am too lazy to ask the
> provider to fix or change provider altogether.

This is hard to take seriously. Precise numbers are hard come to by, but I 
think Microsoft is the number 2 hosting provider, globally, after Google/Gmail, 
and has a substantial market share. Deciding that it's OK to not worry about 
them suggests a very different attitude toward email reliability and 
interoperability than most people would choose.

--
jh...@alum.mit.edu
John Hawkinson

Re: [Mutt] Is linewrap dead? Now: Self hosted SMTP

[bastian-muttuser]

On 12Sep22 21:07+0200, Mihai Lazarescu wrote:
> Given the cheap VPS, I can mirror the setup on a second VPS from a different
> provider with quick DNS switch in case of issues.

I just did that approx half a year ago. Before, everything was rolling 
just fine (for more than 10 yrs). No dead ends of my outgoing mails. 
After transferring the domain over to the new hoster, some destinations 
did not receive my mails. Either filtered into spam, some got denied 
(where I got a nice SMTP error reply) and some just got silently 
dropped.

This took me some time to figure out with each destination, why is that 
happening. And sometimes also just guessing. At least the 
mail-tester.com rate is 10/10, so it is not about my setup per se. The 
IP and/or subnet my VPS was in had a bad reputation at some denylist 
services. Question was then, how to get removed from them. Sometimes via 
automated forms and sometimes through personal mail-conversation with 
other mail operators (t-online.de was very nice and responsive to my 
surprise). For now, it seems fine again. And I would regret it to 
'throw in the towel' because of that; but to be honest, I thought about 
that.

After this experience there need to be very strong reasons to change my 
hoster again, meaning to change my IP/subnet again. 


Cheers,
-- 
Bastian

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sam Kuper]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:57:41PM +0200, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> As I see it, the SMTP configuration to use is fully determined by the
> from address of the mail to be sent.
> 
> [...] there shouldn't be any need for interactivity. For each outoging
> mail, pick up the right SMTP config based on who (which address) is
> sending (From header). As simple as that, I think.

Great!  In that case, msmtp and msmtp-queue can handle your requirements
without modification.  Just populate the config files per your needs,
set up a cron job if you want it, and hopefully your SMTP woes are over!

Sam

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hey Sam, many thanks, again, for your response,

Sam Kuper (2022/08/12 19:56 +):
> CASE 1
> 
> IIRC, msmtp can be configured to use a different smarthost per *email
> address*.  (To emphasise: you would set that up in msmtp's config, not
> in msmtp-queue's config.  msmtp-queue doesn't really have or need much
> configuration.)  So, if that's what you meant, then yes, it's possible.
> 
> 
> CASE 2

I am definitely in that case. Thanks for having raised the point,
because it was obvious to me but, fortunately for everybody, not
everybody is living in my head.

As I see it, the SMTP configuration to use is fully determined by the
from address of the mail to be sent.

> If, instead, you want to be able to choose, per outgoing *email* (rather
> than per *email address* of yours), which smarthost to use, then I think
> you would have to either:
> 
> -   write a wrapper for msmtp-queue to give you an interactive menu for
> choosing which smarthost to use for each outgoing email you send, or
> 
> -   rewrite your installed msmtp-queue script to give you such a menu.

Again, as I see it, there shouldn't be any need for interactivity. For
each outoging mail, pick up the right SMTP config based on who (which
address) is sending (From header). As simple as that, I think.

And, thanks a lot for the idea of installing msmtp manally rather than
through the package manager. It should be possible, I think, to handle
it with the package manager, because manually installing is a pain, but
as long as it's not, that sounds like a good idea.

Once I'll have everything set-up, if I manage to, I'll report here,
either in this thread, or in a dedicated one.

Cheers,

Sébastien.

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sam Kuper]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 08:53:23PM +0200, Daniel Tameling wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 03:58:02PM +, Sam Kuper wrote:
>> -   Test/tweak/re-test msmtp until working.  (E.g. using Mutt or GNU
>> Mailutils's `mail` command to send emails from the command-line,
>> with relevant command-line options set so as to ensure that msmtp
>> is used as the MTA).  Hopefully it would work first time, if
>> configured correctly and if your computer has a suitable internet
>> connection.
> 
> You can check whether msmtp is working with just the echo command.

Good point - I had forgotten that.  Thanks!

Sam

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sam Kuper]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 07:01:52PM +0200, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> 1. Am I correct that it will be possible, when calling smstp-queue, to
> specify which smarthost to use?
> 
> In other words, am I correct that this will let me associate one smart
> host (SMTP configuration) to each mail in the queue, rather than using
> the smae smarthost for allthe mails in the queue?

CASE 1

IIRC, msmtp can be configured to use a different smarthost per *email
address*.  (To emphasise: you would set that up in msmtp's config, not
in msmtp-queue's config.  msmtp-queue doesn't really have or need much
configuration.)  So, if that's what you meant, then yes, it's possible.


CASE 2

If, instead, you want to be able to choose, per outgoing *email* (rather
than per *email address* of yours), which smarthost to use, then I think
you would have to either:

-   write a wrapper for msmtp-queue to give you an interactive menu for
choosing which smarthost to use for each outgoing email you send, or

-   rewrite your installed msmtp-queue script to give you such a menu.

The menu part (UI) isn't so hard, but implementing the underlying
functionality would be a bit more work.



> 2. I think one of the things for which exim is used is the local
> delivery of e-mails. So for instance thee-mails from the cron user are
> delivered to root, but then the e-mails from root are delivered to my
> main local user account and I think it's exim which deals with this
> bit

Yes, lots of GNU/Linux boxes are set up like that by default.


> and I probably won't touch that, unless I have to.

Quite right.


> Also, there is a subtlety that I'll need to figure out, on Debian.
> there are two packages: msmtp and msmtp-mta. the second one conflicts
> with exim son both can not coexist on the same system (they both
> provide the mail-transpor-agent package). At least that's my
> understanding.
> 
> Indeed if I try to install msmtp-mta it wants to remove 7 packages:
> exim4 exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light libgsasl7
> libmailutils6 libmu-dbm6. So I'll start with msmtp alone and see what
> happens, perhaps.

Alternatively, just install msmtp outside of Debian's package management
system?  msmtp is (by design, I believe) quite lightweight/standalone,
so it's a good candidate for that approach.

Good luck, either way!

Sam

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Daniel Tameling (2022/08/12 20:53 +0200):
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 03:58:02PM +, Sam Kuper wrote:
> > -   Test/tweak/re-test msmtp until working.  (E.g. using Mutt or GNU
> > Mailutils's `mail` command to send emails from the command-line,
> > with relevant command-line options set so as to ensure that msmtp is
> > used as the MTA).  Hopefully it would work first time, if configured
> > correctly and if your computer has a suitable internet connection.
> 
> You can check whether msmtp is working with just the echo command. See the
> "Test functionality" section at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/msmtp
> 
> The whole page is valuable if your starting with msmtp.

Many thanks for the link!

Sébastien.

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Daniel Tameling]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 03:58:02PM +, Sam Kuper wrote:
> -   Test/tweak/re-test msmtp until working.  (E.g. using Mutt or GNU
> Mailutils's `mail` command to send emails from the command-line,
> with relevant command-line options set so as to ensure that msmtp is
> used as the MTA).  Hopefully it would work first time, if configured
> correctly and if your computer has a suitable internet connection.

You can check whether msmtp is working with just the echo command. See the
"Test functionality" section at https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/msmtp

The whole page is valuable if your starting with msmtp.

--
Best regards,
Daniel

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Thanks a lot, Sam!

Everything you write makes sense.

Just one question and one remark, if you don't mind.

1. Am I correct that it will be possible, when calling smstp-queue, to
specify which smarthost to use?

In other words, am I correct that this will let me associate one smart
host (SMTP configuration) to each mail in the queue, rather than using
the smae smarthost for allthe mails in the queue?

2. I think one of the things for which exim is used is the local
delivery of e-mails. So for instance thee-mails from the cron user are
delivered to root, but then the e-mails from root are delivered to my
main local user account and I think it's exim which deals with this bit
and I probably won't touch that, unless I have to.

Also, there is a subtlety that I'll need to figure out, on Debian. there
are two packages: msmtp and msmtp-mta. the second one conflicts with
exim son both can not coexist on the same system (they both provide the
mail-transpor-agent package). At least that's my understanding.

Indeed if I try to install msmtp-mta it wants to remove 7 packages:
exim4 exim4-base exim4-config exim4-daemon-light libgsasl7 libmailutils6
libmu-dbm6. So I'll start with msmtp alone and see what happens,
perhaps.

Cheers,

Sébastien.

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sam Kuper]

On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 04:05:55PM +0200, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> Hello Sam, many thanks for your interesting response!

:)

> Sam Kuper (2022/08/11 17:43 +):
>> Consider using msmtp for sending, and msmtp-queue for queueing:
>>
>> https://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-users/Week-of-Mon-20210208/002485.html
> 
> My understanding is that, on one side, mutt would call msmtp-queue as
> a replacement for sendmail

Yes

> and that, on the other side, msmtp needs to somehow be called on a
> regular basis to try to send the messages that are in the queue, if
> network is available. Is this understanding correct?

`msmtp-queue -r` tells msmtp to try to send the emails from
msmtp-queue's queue to your mail provider's SMTP server.  In order for
that to succeed, you need to have a network connection - otherwise the
attempt will time-out and the queued mails will stay in msmtp-queue's
queue so that you can try again later.

So, you can:

-   Manually run `msmtp-queue -r` when you know you have an internet
connection, or

-   Set up a cron-job to run `msmtp-queue -r` according to your
preferred schedule (e.g. every 2 minutes), or

-   Some combination of the two (i.e. have a cron-job set up, but
manually invoke `msmtp-queue -r` on occasions when you don't want to
wait for the next cron time-point).

It's your choice.



> Also, given how important e-mail is, I am a bit worried about the
> transition: any advice on how to switch from exim4 to this new set-up
> as smoothly as possible and without risking to be unable to send
> e-mail for some time?

Here is what I would do in that situation:

-   Read msmtp and msmtp-queue's documentation.

-   Install and configure msmtp.

-   Test/tweak/re-test msmtp until working.  (E.g. using Mutt or GNU
Mailutils's `mail` command to send emails from the command-line,
with relevant command-line options set so as to ensure that msmtp is
used as the MTA).  Hopefully it would work first time, if configured
correctly and if your computer has a suitable internet connection.

-   Install msmtp-queue (it comes bundled with msmtp IIRC) and configure
it, including setting up a cron-job if you want one.

-   Test/tweak/re-test msmtp-queue (similarly to testing msmtp).

-   Edit your muttrc to tell Mutt to use msmtp-queue instead of Exim.

-   Check to see if you have anything else installed that depends on
Exim.

-   If so, either leave it as is (probably) or find another solution
for those things (if you really want to - but Exim is good for
its intended use case).

-   If not, then uninstall Exim.

Good luck!

Sam

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Derek Martin]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 06:23:56PM +0200, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Sorry if the question is off-topic, hopefully not completely though.
> 
> I am wondering what's the best way to use different SMTP servers to send
> mails, depending on which e-mail account I am currently using (the From 
> address).

There is arguably no best way; the best way *for you* will be specific
to how you use mail.  There are a number of ways to do this, but I
think the two most workable ones are:

1. Use hooks (e.g. folder-hook, send-hook, etc.) to set the variables
   for your smtp configuration, based on the folder you're in, the
   recipient you're sending to, etc..  See the mutt manual for more
   details on how to use hooks.

2. Use a macro, bound to some key, that changes the variables when you
   press it.  Again, the manual will have the details, but you might
   want to have a look at this:

 https://gitlab.com/muttmua/mutt/-/wikis/MuttGuide/Macros

There are other ways, like starting mutt with a different config file,
etc., and probably more that I haven't thought of, but I think one of
the two above will be easiest to manage.

-- 
Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/   GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02
-=-=-=-=-
This message is posted from an invalid address.  Replying to it will result in
undeliverable mail due to spam prevention.  Sorry for the inconvenience.



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Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Hello Sam, many thanks for your interesting response!

Sam Kuper (2022/08/11 17:43 +):
> Consider using msmtp for sending, and msmtp-queue for queueing:
> 
>
>https://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-users/Week-of-Mon-20210208/002485.html

My understanding is that, on one side, mutt would call msmtp-queue as a
replacement for sendmail and that, on the other side, msmtp needs to
somehow be called on a regular basis to try to send the messages that
are in the queue, if network is available. Is this understanding
correct?

Also, given how important e-mail is, I am a bit worried about the
transition: any advice on how to switch from exim4 to this new set-up as
smoothly as possible and without risking to be unable to send e-mail for
some time?

I am considering trying on a different machine, or perhaps in a chroot
or docker container, although even with these two last options I am
scared because once in the past I deleted my whole home directory by
removing a chroot in which that home directory was bind-mounted. Since
then I have backups, but still...

Best wishes,

Sébastien.

Re: Using several SMTP servers

[Sam Kuper]

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 06:23:56PM +0200, Sébastien Hinderer wrote:
> So far I use exim4 to send e-mails but I didn't see a way to specify
> which "smarthost" to use to send e-mails e.g. on the sendmail command
> line. So, even if I could use mutt send hooks to choose which SMTP
> configuration to use based on my From address, I don't know how to
> pass this information to the MTA and I am assuming this should not
> even happen.
> 
> One other alternative may be to let mutt send e-mails to SMTP servers
> itself, directly, without going through sendmail/exim4, but then I am
> wondering what is going to happen if I try to send an e-mail while my
> computer is off-line. Am I correct that mutt has no queue or
> whatsoever that would allow it to defer sending e-mails until the
> computer is back online, which is exactly what the MTA does?
> 
> I can't come up with a satisfactory solution and would really
> appreciate feedback on this topic.

Consider using msmtp for sending, and msmtp-queue for queueing:

https://lists.mutt.org/pipermail/mutt-users/Week-of-Mon-20210208/002485.html

Sam

Using several SMTP servers

[Sébastien Hinderer]

Dear all,

Sorry if the question is off-topic, hopefully not completely though.

I am wondering what's the best way to use different SMTP servers to send
mails, depending on which e-mail account I am currently using (the From 
address).

I do realise that the two things (the SMTP server used to send an e-mail
on the one hand, and the e-mail address in the From header of that mail
on the other hand) are not necessarily related and that's actually
my current setting: I use the same SMTP server, with authentication,
no matter where I am and no matter which e-mail address there is
in the From header of the e-ml am sending.

My question is: can that be changed and, if yes, how.

So far I use exim4 to send e-mails but I didn't see a way to specify
which "smarthost" to use to send e-mails e.g. on the sendmail command
line. So, even if I could use mutt send hooks to choose which SMTP
configuration to use based on my From address, I don't know how to pass
this information to the MTA and I am assuming this should not even happen.

One other alternative may be to let mutt send e-mails to SMTP servers
itself, directly, without going through sendmail/exim4, but then I
am wondering what is going to happen if I try to send an e-mail while
my computer is off-line. Am I correct that mutt has no queue or
whatsoever that would allow it to defer sending e-mails until the
computer is back online, which is exactly what the MTA does?

I can't come up with a satisfactory solution and would really appreciate
feedback on this topic.

Many thanks in advance,

Sébastien.

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Robin Sommer]

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:32 -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:

> - I don't seem to have /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib

Me neither actually, but it still works:

# ls /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib
ls: /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib: No such file or directory
# otool -L ~/bin/mutt
/Users/robin/bin/mutt:
[...]
/usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib (compatibility version 3.0.0, current version 
3.15.0)
[...]

I believe Big Sur has started to do some magic there where libraries
are stored elsewhere.

> - Assuming I did have an alternate version of libsasl2 available, how would I 
> link to that library specifically when building mutt?

Try simply uninstalling the MacPorts version ("port uninstall
cyrus-sasl2") and then recompiling mutt from scratch just as before.
That worked for me and now picked up the system's version of the
libsasl.

> Also using MacOS 11.1, if that helps

Same here.

Robin

-- 
Robin Sommer * ICSI/LBNL * ro...@icir.org * www.icir.org/robin

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Baron Fujimoto]

On Fri, 22 Jan 2021, Robin Sommer wrote:




On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 16:22 -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:


Our org's email is hosted by Gmail (via GSuite). I had been using
neomutt (built from MacPorts) successfully for years.


Maybe I can point you in some useful direction: I had exactly this
problem with a self-built mutt recently after upgrading macOS and
rebuilding all the ports (and mutt). It took me a while to find what
was going on: MacPorts' libsasl2 seemed to have trouble with GMail. I
uninstalled that and had mutt link against /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib,
and everything went back to working normally for me.

Now, here's the funny thing: as I'm writing this, I just double
checked my mutt binary. Turns out it's back to linking against
MacPorts (now /opt/local/lib/libsasl2.3.dylib). I've rebuilt mutt in
the meantime a couple of times, so things must have reverted. But it's
all still working fine, which probably means that it was libsasl2
version thing somehow that's been corrected by now.


Hmm, I'm certainly willing to test that out, but a couple of hurdles:

- I don't seem to have /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib (I can't find any libsasl2* in 
/usr)
- Assuming I did have an alternate version of libsasl2 available, how would I 
link to that library specifically when building mutt?

I do have the following MacPorts installed versions available:

/opt/local/lib/libsasl2.3.dylib
/opt/local/lib/libsasl2.dylib

Also using MacOS 11.1, if that helps

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Baron Fujimoto]

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021, Will Yardley wrote:


On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 04:22:04PM -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:


The following in my muttrc was used successfully util this problem began:

set smtp_url = smtp://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com


Do you have smtp_authenticators (unset by default) set?

set smtp_url = "smtps://lu...@example.com@smtp.gmail.com"
set smtp_authenticators = 'gssapi:login'

Are you using an "app password"? Typically, you'll need to (at least I
did)
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833?hl=en-GB

If not, you may want to switch to one. If so, you may want to make sure
it's still active, and check to see if your organization changed any
policies that might be causing the issue, whether that's disabling
certain protocols, or enforcing MFA.

FWIW, when I was using gsuite with Mutt (for work), I would typically
have to auth once for IMAP and once for SMTP.

Good idea trying alternate ports, but you may also want to doublecheck
that your provider is not blocking or hijacking SMTP (and see what you
get using telnet and / or openssl s_client to connect to smtp.gmail.com
directly). Kevin's suggestion should also help show any issues along
those lines.

w


Sorry, I should have added that I do not have smtp_authenticators set, so it 
should be trying all available as the default.

I also tried using an app password, which also works for IMAP, but not for SMTP, same as 
before. The "No available authenticators" error occurs before I am even 
prompted for a password when trying to send.

When I experiment with "openssl s_client", I can only connect to port 465, but 
I don't see any obvious problems there either. I'm not quite sure how to satisfiy GMail's 
AUTH requirements via interactive SMTP commands. (I tried AUTH LOGIN, with base64 encoded 
responses to Username: and Password: but get a Bad Credentials response using either my 
app password or original password).

Below is a excerpt of "mutt -d 2" output. Based on what I see there, it doesn't 
appear that them SMTP is being hijacked. But apparently not even LOGIN or PLAIN AUTH 
mechanisms appear to be available to mutt?

-
Sending message...
Looking up smtp.gmail.com...
Connecting to smtp.gmail.com...
ssl_load_certificates: loading trusted certificates
ssl_socket_open: Error loading trusted certificates
ssl_verify_callback: checking cert chain entry /OU=GlobalSign Root CA - 
R2/O=GlobalSign/CN=GlobalSign (preverify: 1 skipmode: 0)
ssl_verify_callback: checking cert chain entry /C=US/O=Google Trust 
Services/CN=GTS CA 1O1 (preverify: 1 skipmode: 0)
ssl_verify_callback: checking cert chain entry /C=US/ST=California/L=Mountain 
View/O=Google LLC/CN=smtp.gmail.com (preverify: 1 skipmode: 0)
ssl_verify_callback: hostname check passed
TLSv1.3 connection using TLSv1.3 (TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384)
Connected to smtp.gmail.com:465 on fd=8
8< 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP s76sm6536334pfc.35 - gsmtp
8> EHLO MacBook-Pro.local
8< 250-smtp.gmail.com at your service, [192.160.100.100]
8< 250-SIZE 35882577
8< 250-8BITMIME
8< 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER XOAUTH
8< 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
8< 250-PIPELINING
8< 250-CHUNKING
8< 250 SMTPUTF8
SASL local ip: 172.19.100.162;59923, remote ip:74.125.20.109;465
External SSF: 256
External authentication name: u...@example.org
SASL: No worthy mechs found
smtp_auth_sasl: LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER XOAUTH 
unavailable
No authenticators available
mutt_free_body: unlinking 
/var/folders/2y/zz20bmnx69zbk82vm71syr5wgp/T//mutt-MacBook-Pro-502-51733-18433303713026120095.
Mail not sent.
-
(email address and client IP address redacted)

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Robin Sommer]

On Fri, Jan 22, 2021 at 13:48 +, I wrote:

> so things must have reverted. But it's all still working fine

I take that back: the problem persists when linking against MacPorts'
libsasl2. Linking against the system's library lets SMTP work for me.

Robin

-- 
Robin Sommer * ICSI/LBNL * ro...@icir.org * www.icir.org/robin

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Robin Sommer]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 16:22 -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:

> Our og's email is hosted by Gmail (via GSuite). I had been using
> neomutt (built from MacPorts) successfully for years.

Maybe I can point you in some useful direction: I had exactly this
problem with a self-built mutt recently after upgrading macOS and
rebuilding all the ports (and mutt). It took me a while to find what
was going on: MacPorts' libsasl2 seemed to have trouble with GMail. I
uninstalled that and had mutt link against /usr/lib/libsasl2.2.dylib,
and everything went back to working normally for me. 

Now, here's the funny thing: as I'm writing this, I just double
checked my mutt binary. Turns out it's back to linking against
MacPorts (now /opt/local/lib/libsasl2.3.dylib). I've rebuilt mutt in
the meantime a couple of times, so things must have reverted. But it's
all still working fine, which probably means that it was libsasl2
version thing somehow that's been corrected by now.

Robin

-- 
Robin Sommer * ICSI/LBNL * ro...@icir.org * www.icir.org/robin

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Steve Karmeinsky]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 08:26:11PM -0800 or thereabouts, Will Yardley wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 04:22:04PM -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
> > The following in my muttrc was used successfully util this problem began:
> > set smtp_url = smtp://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com
> Do you have smtp_authenticators (unset by default) set?
> set smtp_url = "smtps://lu...@example.com@smtp.gmail.com"
> set smtp_authenticators = 'gssapi:login'
> Are you using an "app password"? Typically, you'll need to (at least I
> did)
> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833?hl=en-GB

I think that's much more likely the issue, though it may need a GSuite
domain administrator to enable the feature for users and then the user
can set one.

Steve

-- 
NetTek Ltd  UK mob +44 7775 755503
UK +44 20 3432 3735  /  US +1 (650) 423 1390
social id stevekennedyuk
Euro Tech News Blog http://eurotechnews.blogspot.com

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Will Yardley]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 04:22:04PM -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
> 
> The following in my muttrc was used successfully util this problem began:
> 
> set smtp_url = smtp://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com

Do you have smtp_authenticators (unset by default) set?

set smtp_url = "smtps://lu...@example.com@smtp.gmail.com"
set smtp_authenticators = 'gssapi:login'

Are you using an "app password"? Typically, you'll need to (at least I
did)
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/185833?hl=en-GB

If not, you may want to switch to one. If so, you may want to make sure
it's still active, and check to see if your organization changed any
policies that might be causing the issue, whether that's disabling
certain protocols, or enforcing MFA.

FWIW, when I was using gsuite with Mutt (for work), I would typically
have to auth once for IMAP and once for SMTP.

Good idea trying alternate ports, but you may also want to doublecheck
that your provider is not blocking or hijacking SMTP (and see what you
get using telnet and / or openssl s_client to connect to smtp.gmail.com
directly). Kevin's suggestion should also help show any issues along
those lines.

w

Re: GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 04:22:04PM -1000, Baron Fujimoto wrote:
Our org's email is hosted by Gmail (via GSuite). I had been using 
neomutt (built from MacPorts) successfully for years. Recently though, 
I can no longer send email successfully using GMail's SMTP servers. I 
get the error, "No authenticators available". IMAP still works 
fine. This change occurred while I had a neomutt session open; it was 
working one day when I left, but the next day, no bueno.


Do you have $smtp_authenticators set to anything?  If so, trying leaving 
it blank so Mutt can try all possible authenticators it knows about.


You might also enable debugging (-d 2) and see if the debug file gives 
any interesting information.  After enabling TLS, the SMTP server would 
typically send an AUTH line indicating acceptable authentication 
mechanisms, for example:

  250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH2 PLAIN-CLIENTTOKEN OAUTHBEARER XOAUTH

Since you compiled against SASL, it should be able to handle at least 
LOGIN and PLAIN.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

GMail SMTP: no authenticators available?

[Baron Fujimoto]

Our org's email is hosted by Gmail (via GSuite). I had been using neomutt (built from 
MacPorts) successfully for years. Recently though, I can no longer send email 
successfully using GMail's SMTP servers. I get the error, "No authenticators 
available". IMAP still works fine. This change occurred while I had a neomutt 
session open; it was working one day when I left, but the next day, no bueno.

Although I had been using neomutt above (because it's what's available as mutt 
in MacPorts), I also tried compiling and installing real mutt (2.0.4) from 
source and I am seeing the same behavior with real mutt as well[*].

I don't know if it's relevant, but prior to not working at all, I'd had to 
enter my password whenever I start mutt for IMAP access, as well as *each time* 
I wanted to send a message via the SMTP server.

The following in my muttrc was used successfully util this problem began:

set smtp_url = smtp://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com

Where u...@example.org is my hosted gmail address.

I also tried the following with the same results:

set smtp_url = smtp://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com:587
set smtp_url = smtps://u...@example.org@smtp.gmail.com

I haven't seen any other traffic about this on the list, so presumably it's not 
a general problem.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[*] Built on MacOS 11.1 with "./configure --enable-sidebar --enable-compressed 
--enable-imap --enable-smtp --enable-debug --enable-hcache --with-ssl=/opt/local 
--with-sasl=/opt/local"

Re: Gmail SMTP 501-5.5.4

[D.J.J. Ring, Jr.]

So this is the correct line you must have in your .muttrc file?

set imap_user = "usern...@gmail.com"

Just substituting your username for "username."

Thanks,

DR

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 8:30 PM Kevin J. McCarthy  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 07:14:10PM -0500, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:
> >Does that mean that this line has to be set to just username and not
> >the usern...@gmail.com
> >
> >set imap_user = "usern...@gmail.com"
> >
> >Should be:
> >set imap_user = "username"
>
> No, I believe the $imap_user for gmail needs to have the "@gmail.com"
> part.
>
> --
> Kevin J. McCarthy
> GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA

Re: Gmail SMTP 501-5.5.4

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 07:14:10PM -0500, D.J.J. Ring, Jr. wrote:

Does that mean that this line has to be set to just username and not
the usern...@gmail.com

set imap_user = "usern...@gmail.com"

Should be:
set imap_user = "username"


No, I believe the $imap_user for gmail needs to have the "@gmail.com" 
part.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Gmail SMTP 501-5.5.4

[D.J.J. Ring, Jr.]

Kevin,

Does that mean that this line has to be set to just username and not
the usern...@gmail.com

set imap_user = "usern...@gmail.com"

Should be:
set imap_user = "username"

Best wishes,

David

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 5:20 PM Kevin J. McCarthy  wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 03:48:58PM -0600, Michael wrote:
> >I've been searching for a solution for two days and I'm at a point where I
> >can not figure out what is wrong with my mutt configuration. Included are
> >the salted versions of my muttrc and a level 5 debug log. The problem that
> >I am having is that I can not send emails via Gmal, but I can receive just
> >fine.
>
> Have you manually set hostname in your muttrc?  It looks like it is set
> to your gmail login.  Mutt's SMTP client uses $hostname in the EHLO
> command, but gmail doesn't appreciate it being an email address, instead
> of your actual hostname.
>
> --
> Kevin J. McCarthy
> GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA

Re: Gmail SMTP 501-5.5.4

[Michael]

Kevin,

I don't know how to say thank you enough right now!

I wish the guides online had this tidbit of information on it.

Mike

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 4:20 PM Kevin J. McCarthy  wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 03:48:58PM -0600, Michael wrote:
> >I've been searching for a solution for two days and I'm at a point where I
> >can not figure out what is wrong with my mutt configuration. Included are
> >the salted versions of my muttrc and a level 5 debug log. The problem that
> >I am having is that I can not send emails via Gmal, but I can receive just
> >fine.
>
> Have you manually set hostname in your muttrc?  It looks like it is set
> to your gmail login.  Mutt's SMTP client uses $hostname in the EHLO
> command, but gmail doesn't appreciate it being an email address, instead
> of your actual hostname.
>
> --
> Kevin J. McCarthy
> GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA
>

Re: Gmail SMTP 501-5.5.4

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Thu, Nov 26, 2020 at 03:48:58PM -0600, Michael wrote:

I've been searching for a solution for two days and I'm at a point where I
can not figure out what is wrong with my mutt configuration. Included are
the salted versions of my muttrc and a level 5 debug log. The problem that
I am having is that I can not send emails via Gmal, but I can receive just
fine.


Have you manually set hostname in your muttrc?  It looks like it is set 
to your gmail login.  Mutt's SMTP client uses $hostname in the EHLO 
command, but gmail doesn't appreciate it being an email address, instead 
of your actual hostname.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Gmail SMTP 501-5.5.4

[Michael]

ECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA 
ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE ENABLE MOVE CONDSTORE 
ESEARCH UTF8=ACCEPT LIST-EXTENDED LIST-STATUS LITERAL- SPECIAL-USE 
APPENDLIMIT=35651584
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Handling CAPABILITY
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< a0001 OK usern...@gmail.com authenticated (Success)
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] IMAP queue drained
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] SASL protection strength: 0
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] SASL protection buffer size: 65536
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Communication encrypted at 256 bits
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4> a0002 CAPABILITY
a0003 ENABLE UTF8=ACCEPT
a0004 LIST "" ""
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UNSELECT IDLE NAMESPACE QUOTA 
ID XLIST CHILDREN X-GM-EXT-1 UIDPLUS COMPRESS=DEFLATE ENABLE MOVE CONDSTORE 
ESEARCH UTF8=ACCEPT LIST-EXTENDED LIST-STATUS LITERAL- SPECIAL-USE 
APPENDLIMIT=35651584
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Handling CAPABILITY
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< a0002 OK Success
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * ENABLED UTF8=ACCEPT
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Handling ENABLED
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< a0003 OK Success
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * LIST (\Noselect) "/" "/"
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< a0004 OK Success
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] IMAP queue drained
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Selecting INBOX...
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4> a0005 SELECT "INBOX"
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * FLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft \Deleted \Seen 
$NotPhishing $Phishing Old)
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Getting mailbox FLAGS
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * OK [PERMANENTFLAGS (\Answered \Flagged \Draft 
\Deleted \Seen $NotPhishing $Phishing Old \*)] Flags permitted.
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Getting mailbox PERMANENTFLAGS
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * OK [UIDVALIDITY 1] UIDs valid.
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Getting mailbox UIDVALIDITY
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * 0 EXISTS
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Handling EXISTS
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] cmd_handle_untagged: superfluous EXISTS message.
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * 0 RECENT
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * OK [UIDNEXT 29524] Predicted next UID.
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Getting mailbox UIDNEXT
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< * OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 1727569]
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] 4< a0005 OK [READ-WRITE] INBOX selected. (Success)
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] IMAP queue drained
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] Mailbox flags: [2020-11-26 17:10:32] [\Answered] 
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] [\Flagged] [2020-11-26 17:10:32] [\Draft] [2020-11-26 
17:10:32] [\Deleted] [2020-11-26 17:10:32] [\Seen] [2020-11-26 17:10:32] 
[$NotPhishing] [2020-11-26 17:10:32] [$Phishing] [2020-11-26 17:10:32] [Old] 
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] [\*] [2020-11-26 17:10:32] 
[2020-11-26 17:10:32] imap_open_mailbox: msgcount is 0
[2020-11-26 17:10:37] mutt_index_menu[717]: Got op 99
[2020-11-26 17:10:37] ../../send.c:1273: mutt_mktemp returns 
"/tmp/mutt-PCName-1000-2778-17956375371973550074".
[2020-11-26 17:10:51] In mutt_reflow_windows
[2020-11-26 17:10:55] Sending message...
[2020-11-26 17:10:55] ../../send.c:987: mutt_mktemp returns 
"/tmp/mutt-PCName-1000-2778-973990254990478076".
[2020-11-26 17:10:55] mwoh: buf[Subject: test-4] is short enough
[2020-11-26 17:10:55] Looking up smtp.gmail.com...
[2020-11-26 17:10:55] Connecting to smtp.gmail.com...
[2020-11-26 17:10:55] SSL/TLS connection using TLS1.2 
(ECDHE-ECDSA/CHACHA20-POLY1305/AEAD)
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] Connected to smtp.gmail.com:465 on fd=5
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] 5< 220 smtp.gmail.com ESMTP k31sm3554405qtd.40 - gsmtp
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] 5> EHLO usern...@gmail.com
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] 5< 501-5.5.4 HELO/EHLO argument "usern...@gmail.com" 
invalid, closing
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] 5< 501-5.5.4 connection.
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] 5< 501 5.5.4  https://support.google.com/mail/?p=helo 
k31sm3554405qtd.40 - gsmtp
[2020-11-26 17:10:56] SMTP session failed: 501 5.5.4  
https://support.google.com/mail/?p=helo k31sm3554405qtd.40 - gsmtp
[2020-11-26 17:11:02] mutt_free_body: unlinking 
/tmp/mutt-PCName-1000-2778-17956375371973550074.
[2020-11-26 17:11:02] Mail not sent.
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] mutt_index_menu[717]: Got op 149
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] Mailbox is unchanged.
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] Closing connection to imap.gmail.com...
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] 4> a0006 CLOSE
a0007 LOGOUT
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] 4< a0006 OK Returned to authenticated state. (Success)
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] 4< * BYE LOGOUT Requested
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] Handling BYE
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] 4< a0007 OK 73 good day (Success)
[2020-11-26 17:11:04] IMAP queue drained


muttrc
Description: Binary data

Re: smtp not working

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Fri, Nov 06, 2020 at 09:59:46PM +, isdtor wrote:
This is MIT KRB5 1.10. I've tried this on systems with newer versions, 
too, with the same result. I am not aware of any configuration specific 
to GSSAPI, only Kerberos (and I have a valid ticket).


I'll have to punt on this for now then.  Maybe the IMAP GSSAPI handler 
can be ported over to be used for SMTP too.  I'll take a look at that 
for next cycle...


Perhaps you could try an external MTA?  msmtp's website seems to mention 
working with GSSAPI.  They use a different SASL library, so you might 
have better luck.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Re: smtp not working

[isdtor]

> At this point, I'm just guessing, as I have almost no experience with 
> Kerberos.  The message above may supply some kind of clue: Server not 
> found in Kerberos database.  Which GSSAPI library is SASL using?  Is it 
> possible there is some setup or configuration that library needs to 
> function properly?
 
This is MIT KRB5 1.10. I've tried this on systems with newer versions, too, 
with the same result. I am not aware of any configuration specific to GSSAPI, 
only Kerberos (and I have a valid ticket).

> >[2020-11-05 13:47:33] External authentication name: mycompany\\myuser
> 
> Just a thought - should that be a double backslash or a single 
> backslash?

I may need go back and test this next week. But the current config works for 
imap, and I have smtp_url="smtp://$imap_u...@server.com:587" in muttrc.

Re: smtp not working

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Thu, Nov 05, 2020 at 01:53:15PM +, isdtor wrote:

[2020-11-05 13:35:13] SASL: GSSAPI Error: Unspecified GSS failure.  Minor code 
may provide more information (Server not found in Kerberos database)


At this point, I'm just guessing, as I have almost no experience with 
Kerberos.  The message above may supply some kind of clue: Server not 
found in Kerberos database.  Which GSSAPI library is SASL using?  Is it 
possible there is some setup or configuration that library needs to 
function properly?



I've also tried

set smtp_authenticators="ntlm:login"

and they fail, differently.


[...]


[2020-11-05 13:47:32] 7< 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful
[2020-11-05 13:47:32] ntlm authentication failed, trying next method


Well, at least it tried this time.  The server just didn't like the 
login/password in that case.



[2020-11-05 13:47:33] External authentication name: mycompany\\myuser


Just a thought - should that be a double backslash or a single 
backslash?


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Re: smtp not working

[isdtor]

 
> Try running mutt at debug level 2 and see what it prints.  There should be a
> message:
>   smtp_authenticate: Trying method XXX
> for each method, and then hopefully something inside the SASL authentication
> starting with:
>   smtp_auth_sasl: 
> 
> I don't know what the problem is, but perhaps it will give a clue.

I've gone through a few iterations and now have also a valid Kerberos ticket 
for the domain (NTLM is on the list). With that, the error has stabilised on

[2020-11-05 13:35:12] ssl_verify_callback: checking cert chain entry 
/DC=com/DC=mycompany/DC=eu/CN=Mycompany CA (preverify: 0 skipmode: 0)
[2020-11-05 13:35:12] ssl_verify_callback: digest check passed
[2020-11-05 13:35:12] ssl_verify_callback: checking cert chain entry 
/DC=com/DC=mycompany/O=Mycompany/CN=mail.mycompany.com (preverify: 1 skipmode: 
0)
[2020-11-05 13:35:12] ssl_verify_callback: hostname check passed
[2020-11-05 13:35:12] TLSv1.2 connection using TLSv1.2 (ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384)
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7> EHLO cypress.com
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-mail.mycompany.com Hello [10.2.3.4]
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-SIZE 41943040
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-PIPELINING
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-DSN
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM LOGIN
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-8BITMIME
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250-BINARYMIME
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] 7< 250 CHUNKING
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] smtp_authenticate: Trying method gssapi
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] SASL local ip: 192.168.1.5;59262, remote ip:10.2.3.4;587
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] External SSF: 256
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] External authentication name: mycompany\\myuser
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] mutt_sasl_cb_authname: getting user for 
mail.mycompany.com:587
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] SASL: GSSAPI Error: Unspecified GSS failure.  Minor code 
may provide more information (Server not found in Kerberos database)
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] smtp_auth_sasl: GSSAPI unavailable
[2020-11-05 13:35:13] No authenticators available

I've also tried

set smtp_authenticators="ntlm:login"

and they fail, differently.

[2020-11-05 13:47:27] Authenticating (NTLM)...
[2020-11-05 13:47:27] 7> AUTH NTLM TlRMTVNTUAABBwIgACA=
[2020-11-05 13:47:27] 7< 334 
TlRMTVNTUAACEAAQADgFAoECv/HeyZc7uakAAJ4AngBIBgOAJQ9JAE4ARgBJAE4ARQBPAE4AAgAQAEkATgBGAEkATgBFAE8ATgABABAATQBVAEMAUwBFADcAMAAxAAQAGABpAG4AZgBpAG4AZQBvAG4ALgBjAG8AbQADACoATQBVAEMAUwBFADcAMAAxAC4AaQBuAGYAaQBuAGUAbwBuAC4AYwBvAG0ABQAYAGkAbgBmAGkAbgBlAG8AbgAuAGMAbwBtAAcACABc5gIzerPWAQA=
[2020-11-05 13:47:27] mutt_sasl_cb_authname: getting authname for 
mail.mycompany.com:587
[2020-11-05 13:47:27] mutt_sasl_cb_pass: getting password for 
mycompany\\myu...@mail.mycompany.com:587
[2020-11-05 13:47:27] 7> 
TlRMTVNTUAADAEAYABgAQBAAEABYKgAqAGgAkgCSBQIAAJsXjL3ydgM9rwTubG5AxAv3ScSp4SQNUkkATgBGAEkATgBFAE8ATgBpAG4AZgBpAG4AZQBvAG4AXABcAGgAZQBjAGsAaQBuAGcAbABhAHIAcwA=
[2020-11-05 13:47:32] 7< 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful
[2020-11-05 13:47:32] ntlm authentication failed, trying next method
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] smtp_authenticate: Trying method login
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] SASL local ip: 192.168.1.5;59552, remote ip:10.2.3.4
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] External SSF: 256
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] External authentication name: mycompany\\myuser
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] Authenticating (LOGIN)...
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] 7> AUTH LOGIN
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] 7< 334 VXNlcm5hbWU6
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] mutt_sasl_cb_authname: getting authname for 
mail.mycompany.com:587
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] mutt_sasl_cb_pass: getting password for 
mycompany\\myu...@mail.mycompany.com:587
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] 7> aW5maW5lb25cXGhlY2tpbmdsYXJz
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] 7< 334 UGFzc3dvcmQ6
[2020-11-05 13:47:33] 7> YmFpMXBoaWVNew==
[2020-11-05 13:47:53] 7< 535 5.7.3 Authentication unsuccessful
[2020-11-05 13:47:53] SASL authentication failed

Re: smtp not working

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 05:48:52PM +, isdtor wrote:



The --with-gss is actually only used for IMAP authentication.  For SMTP,
Mutt's (simple) implementation relies entirely on SASL.  Is it possible you
don't have the modules installed for SASL's GSSAPI support?

If you're on a Debian derivative, try installing libsasl2-modules-gssapi-mit
or libsasl2-modules-gssapi-heimdal and see if that helps.  (I'm not very
familiar with GSSAPI and am not sure which package might be the appropriate
one.)


I checked - cyrus-sasl-2.1 plus gssapi, ldap, md5, ntlm, plain modules are all 
installed.


Try running mutt at debug level 2 and see what it prints.  There should 
be a message:

  smtp_authenticate: Trying method XXX
for each method, and then hopefully something inside the SASL 
authentication starting with:

  smtp_auth_sasl: 

I don't know what the problem is, but perhaps it will give a clue.

--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Re: smtp not working

[isdtor]

> The --with-gss is actually only used for IMAP authentication.  For SMTP,
> Mutt's (simple) implementation relies entirely on SASL.  Is it possible you
> don't have the modules installed for SASL's GSSAPI support?
> 
> If you're on a Debian derivative, try installing libsasl2-modules-gssapi-mit
> or libsasl2-modules-gssapi-heimdal and see if that helps.  (I'm not very
> familiar with GSSAPI and am not sure which package might be the appropriate
> one.)

I checked - cyrus-sasl-2.1 plus gssapi, ldap, md5, ntlm, plain modules are all 
installed.

Re: smtp not working

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Wed, Nov 04, 2020 at 01:13:40PM +, isdtor wrote:

$work moved to a new email system (in-house exchange). I've managed to 
configure mutt for it and can successfully access the mailbox for reading. But 
I am unable to send, with a message

 No authenticators available


I figured out that the smtp server requires "250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM", and also, 
that I had built this mutt without gss. So I rebuilt with gss


The --with-gss is actually only used for IMAP authentication.  For SMTP, 
Mutt's (simple) implementation relies entirely on SASL.  Is it possible 
you don't have the modules installed for SASL's GSSAPI support?


If you're on a Debian derivative, try installing 
libsasl2-modules-gssapi-mit or libsasl2-modules-gssapi-heimdal and see 
if that helps.  (I'm not very familiar with GSSAPI and am not sure which 
package might be the appropriate one.)


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Re: smtp not working

[isdtor]

isdtor writes:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> $work moved to a new email system (in-house exchange). I've managed to 
> configure mutt for it and can successfully access the mailbox for reading. 
> But I am unable to send, with a message
> 
>  No authenticators available
> 
> What could be the problem here? I have the same settings configured under 
> thunderbird, and sending works fine there.
 
I figured out that the smtp server requires "250-AUTH GSSAPI NTLM", and also, 
that I had built this mutt without gss. So I rebuilt with gss

Configure options: '--prefix=/opt/crypto' '--disable-pgp' '--disable-smime' 
'--enable-gpgme' '--disable-nls' '--enable-imap' '--disable-pop' 
'--enable-smtp' '--without-gnutls' '--with-ssl' '--with-sasl' '--without-idn2' 
'--without-idn' '--with-gss' '--enable-compressed' '--enable-external-dotlock' 
'--enable-hcache' '--with-libgpg-error-prefix=/opt/crypto' '--without-lmdb' 
'--without-qdbm' '--without-tokyocabinet' '--with-gdbm' '--without-bdb'

but it's still not working.

I noticed that when I use e.g.

set smtp_authenticators="gssapi:login"

after the TLS connection is established, mutt goes straight into

Authenticating (LOGIN)...

as if it either wasn't even trying gssapi, or it tries and fails right away.

smtp not working

[isdtor]

Hi all,

$work moved to a new email system (in-house exchange). I've managed to 
configure mutt for it and can successfully access the mailbox for reading. But 
I am unable to send, with a message

 No authenticators available

What could be the problem here? I have the same settings configured under 
thunderbird, and sending works fine there.

Thunderbird did complain about server certs twice, once for the incoming and 
once for the outgoing server, for which I created permanent exceptions. mutt, I 
think, asked once. Is the problem then that the smtp server cert is missing? 
And how do I access and import it? I'll need to take a closer look at the 
certificates files.

Thanks.

Re: use-after-free in smtp digest-md5

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019 at 04:29:35PM +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
this was indeed an issue in cyrus-sasl which thanks to a patch by 
Simo Sorce is now fixed in master:


https://github.com/cyrusimap/cyrus-sasl/commit/ca6c587cc9da51235b125a97e841fa786aaad7ff


Thank you Philipp, for taking the initiative and helping to get this 
fixed upstream.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Re: use-after-free in smtp digest-md5

[Philipp Gesang]

Hi,

-<| Quoting Philipp Gesang , on Tuesday, 
2019-04-16 08:39:02 AM |>-
> -<| Quoting Kevin J. McCarthy , on Monday, 2019-04-15 07:04:38 
> PM |>-
> > On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 06:38:40AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 08:59:33AM +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > > > I’ve come across a use after free in sasl calls when
> > > > authenticating using digest-md5 against an smtp server:
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the trace.
> > > 
> > > > PS: Bringing this up here because mutt is what crashes for me.
> > > >   As far as I can see, mutt follows the example code provided
> > > >   by cyrus-sasl closely so if you prefer I can move the
> > > >   discussion to the cyrus-sasl list.
> > > 
> > > I'll take a look at it from my side too, but probably won't have time
> > > for a couple days.
> > 
> > I had a bit of time to take a look at this, but I'm not immediately seeing a
> > problem from Mutt's side either.  I think it would be worth asking
> > cyrus-sasl to see what they say.
> 
> thanks for looking into this. I’ll take the issue to the sasl
> folks and report back.

this was indeed an issue in cyrus-sasl which thanks to a patch by
Simo Sorce is now fixed in master:

https://github.com/cyrusimap/cyrus-sasl/commit/ca6c587cc9da51235b125a97e841fa786aaad7ff

Best regards,
Philipp



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Re: use-after-free in smtp digest-md5

[Philipp Gesang]

Hi Kevin,

-<| Quoting Kevin J. McCarthy , on Monday, 2019-04-15 07:04:38 PM 
|>-
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 06:38:40AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:
> > On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 08:59:33AM +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:
> > > I’ve come across a use after free in sasl calls when
> > > authenticating using digest-md5 against an smtp server:
> > 
> > Thanks for the trace.
> > 
> > > PS: Bringing this up here because mutt is what crashes for me.
> > >   As far as I can see, mutt follows the example code provided
> > >   by cyrus-sasl closely so if you prefer I can move the
> > >   discussion to the cyrus-sasl list.
> > 
> > I'll take a look at it from my side too, but probably won't have time
> > for a couple days.
> 
> I had a bit of time to take a look at this, but I'm not immediately seeing a
> problem from Mutt's side either.  I think it would be worth asking
> cyrus-sasl to see what they say.

thanks for looking into this. I’ll take the issue to the sasl
folks and report back.

Best regards,
Philipp



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Re: use-after-free in smtp digest-md5

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 06:38:40AM -0700, Kevin J. McCarthy wrote:

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 08:59:33AM +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:

I’ve come across a use after free in sasl calls when
authenticating using digest-md5 against an smtp server:


Thanks for the trace.


PS: Bringing this up here because mutt is what crashes for me.
  As far as I can see, mutt follows the example code provided
  by cyrus-sasl closely so if you prefer I can move the
  discussion to the cyrus-sasl list.


I'll take a look at it from my side too, but probably won't have time 
for a couple days.


I had a bit of time to take a look at this, but I'm not immediately 
seeing a problem from Mutt's side either.  I think it would be worth 
asking cyrus-sasl to see what they say.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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Re: use-after-free in smtp digest-md5

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 08:59:33AM +0200, Philipp Gesang wrote:

I’ve come across a use after free in sasl calls when
authenticating using digest-md5 against an smtp server:


Thanks for the trace.


PS: Bringing this up here because mutt is what crashes for me.
   As far as I can see, mutt follows the example code provided
   by cyrus-sasl closely so if you prefer I can move the
   discussion to the cyrus-sasl list.


I'll take a look at it from my side too, but probably won't have time 
for a couple days.


--
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA


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use-after-free in smtp digest-md5

[Philipp Gesang]

Hi,

I’ve come across a use after free in sasl calls when
authenticating using digest-md5 against an smtp server:

--8<-- free 1 --->8--

#0  free_rc4 (text=text@entry=0x21d3460) at digestmd5.c:1227
#1  0x7f1fa8416b92 in make_client_response (text=text@entry=0x21d3460, 
params=params@entry=0x21d3200, oparams=oparams@entry=0x21d18f0) at 
digestmd5.c:3613
#2  0x7f1fa8417039 in digestmd5_client_mech_step2 (oparams=, 
clientoutlen=, clientout=, 
prompt_need=, 
serverinlen=, serverin=, params=0x21d3200, 
ctext=) at digestmd5.c:4364
#3  digestmd5_client_mech_step (conn_context=, params=0x21d3200, 
serverin=, serverinlen=, 
prompt_need=, 
clientout=, clientoutlen=, oparams=)
at digestmd5.c:4558
#4  0x7f1fa7e6a471 in sasl_client_step (conn=0x21d1080, serverin=, 
serverinlen=, prompt_need=prompt_need@entry=0x7fffc8656330, 
clientout=clientout@entry=0x7fffc8656340, 
clientoutlen=clientoutlen@entry=0x7fffc865631c)
at client.c:922
#5  0x00492c05 in smtp_auth_sasl (conn=conn@entry=0x210f810, 
mechlist=)
at smtp.c:635
#6  0x0049339d in smtp_auth (conn=0x210f810) at smtp.c:549
#7  smtp_open (conn=0x210f810) at smtp.c:503
#8  mutt_smtp_send (from=0x210ce70, to=0x210c890, cc=0x0, bcc=0x0, 
msgfile=msgfile@entry=0x7fffc8657570 
"/tmp/mutt-drift-2428-105237-294724449650828126", 
eightbit=1) at smtp.c:311
#9  0x00464a45 in send_message (msg=, msg=) at send.c:1030
#10 ci_send_message (flags=, flags@entry=0, msg=, 
msg@entry=0x0, 
tempfile=tempfile@entry=0x0, ctx=0x1f44270, cur=, 
cur@entry=0x0) at send.c:1936
#11 0x0042201e in mutt_index_menu () at curs_main.c:2161
#12 0x00409253 in main (argc=1, argv=0x7fffc865abe8, environ=)
at main.c:1274

--8<-- free 2 --->8--

#0  free_rc4 (text=0x21d3460) at digestmd5.c:1227
#1  0x7f1fa8413420 in digestmd5_common_mech_dispose 
(conn_context=0x21d3460, utils=0x21d32d0)
at digestmd5.c:1610
#2  0x7f1fa7e696f8 in client_dispose (pconn=0x21d1080) at client.c:337
#3  0x7f1fa7e6c414 in sasl_dispose (pconn=0x21693a0) at common.c:849
#4  0x004987c0 in mutt_sasl_conn_close (conn=0x210f810) at 
mutt_sasl.c:496
#5  0x004952a3 in mutt_socket_close (conn=conn@entry=0x210f810) at 
mutt_socket.c:85
#6  0x0049395a in mutt_smtp_send (from=, to=0x210c890, 
cc=0x0, bcc=0x0, 
msgfile=msgfile@entry=0x7fffc8657570 
"/tmp/mutt-drift-2428-105237-294724449650828126", 
eightbit=) at smtp.c:357
#7  0x00464a45 in send_message (msg=, msg=) at send.c:1030
#8  ci_send_message (flags=, flags@entry=0, msg=, 
msg@entry=0x0, 
tempfile=tempfile@entry=0x0, ctx=0x1f44270, cur=, 
cur@entry=0x0) at send.c:1936
#9  0x0042201e in mutt_index_menu () at curs_main.c:2161
#10 0x00409253 in main (argc=1, argv=0x7fffc865abe8, environ=)
at main.c:1274

--8<->8--

The first one happens during logon, the other when dismantling
the connection. Thus the message is sent successfully, but mutt
crashes every time.

In my test this happens with mutt 1.10+ and cyrus-sasl
2.1.2{6,7}. I did not check earlier versions. The server is a
postfix with cyrus-sasl advertising “LOGIN DIGEST-MD5 PLAIN
CRAM-MD5”. Only SMTP/Submission crashes while IMAPS is fine.

For both mutt and cyrus-sasl the relevant code hasn’t changed in
years. To me it appears that the problem may be masked by very
few mail servers supporting digest-md5 and the fact that some
distros (e. g. Nixos) build cyrus-sasl with “--enable-login”
which changes the preference for authentication mechs.

PS: Bringing this up here because mutt is what crashes for me.
As far as I can see, mutt follows the example code provided
by cyrus-sasl closely so if you prefer I can move the
discussion to the cyrus-sasl list.

Thank you,
Philipp



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Re: Local mail agent suggestions (gmail -> local postgres -> {local IMAP+SMTP} <-> mutt)?

[Jonathan Gold]

Hi Ben -- Thanks. I did see it a few days ago (it is well indexed on
Google!), but while it would provide good search, it leaves most of the
other requirements off the list.

Probably I should have also stated one of the other requirements, which
is that I'm looking for a single tool which can provide both the local
networking daemons as well as the gmail sync, to reduce my configuration
and management footprint. The only external software I'd like in
addition are the MUA and postgres.

jonathan

On Tue, Jan 22, 2019 at 03:03:25PM -0500, Ben Boeckel wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 17:26:31 -0800, Jonathan Gold wrote:
> > I currently use the mbox format, fetchmail, procmail, and msmtp, but it
> > is a bit unwieldy and doesn't give me the SQL search interface I'd like.
> 
> It isn't postgres, but have you looked at notmuch? It has mail-oriented
> search tools built-in for outside-of-mutt searching. Example output
> here:
> 
> % notmuch search mutt-dev
> thread:00013927   2015-02-25 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3740: multi-byte 
> characters not handled in query window (inbox)
> thread:000138f4   2015-01-22 [5/5] Ben Boeckel, David Champion, 
> Vincent Lefevre; mutt: Fix the hcache type punning warning. (inbox)
> thread:0001387d   2014-08-23 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3699: Enable %a 
> for pgp_encrypt_only_command (inbox)
> thread:0001312a   2014-06-22 [2/2] Mutt; [Mutt] #3695: OpenPGP: 
> use fingerprint instead of key ID (inbox)
> thread:00013129   2014-06-22 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3175: mutt 
> should display keyid for which it wants the password (inbox)
> thread:00013116   2014-05-25 [4/4] Mutt; [Mutt] #3665: Encrypting 
> postponed messages (flagged inbox)
> thread:000130fb   2014-05-07 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3687: Threads 
> expand when other IMAP clients access IMAP folder (inbox)
> 
> https://notmuchmail.org/
> 
> --Ben

Re: Local mail agent suggestions (gmail -> local postgres -> {local IMAP+SMTP} <-> mutt)?

[Cameron Simpson]

On 21Jan2019 17:26, Jonathan Gold  wrote:

Hi -- I apologize if I missed the discussion in the archives, but was
wondering if anyone here has suggestions for a single tool that I can
run locally on macos to accomplish the following independent but related
functions?

- Sync a local mail store, built atop postgres, from its
  authoritative representation in gmail. Sync should rebuild
  efficiently from source in the event that the local copy is
  destroyed.

- Provide a sane and accessible postgres schema for mail so I can
  connect directly via psql or other tools and query mail directly,
  filtering by headers and bodies (attachments not so important)

- Provide an IMAP server on localhost to be mutt's interface to the
  postgres mailstore.


If your mail store has local IMAP then iffline-imap should be able to 
sync from gmail to the local store.



- Provide an SMTP server or sendmail-like command line interface for
  mutt to use to send mail


I'd just use the local mail system. For exanmple, my Mac comes with 
postfix preinstalled; I've just configured it correctly and now I've got 
a working local email service. My /etc/postfix/main.cf starts thus:


 # Mac is a dumb host - relay to an ISP or local server.
 # This one is a choice mediated by a local haproxy, henc the weid 
 # port.

 relayhost = 127.0.0.2:1025
 sender_dependent_relayhost_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/relayhost_map
 smtp_sender_dependent_authentication = yes
 smtp_sasl_password_maps=hash:/etc/postfix/sasl/security
 smtp_sasl_auth_enable=yes
 mydomain = ... personal email domain here ...
 myorigin = ... personal email domain here ...
 mydestination = $mydomain, $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost
 inet_interfaces = localhost
 mynetworks_style = host
 message_size_limit = 52428800
 biff = no
 mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, [::1]/128
 smtpd_client_restrictions = permit_mynetworks 
 permit_sasl_authenticated permit

 recipient_delimiter = +
 smtpd_tls_ciphers = medium
 inet_protocols = ipv4
 default_destination_concurrency_limit = 1

The beauty of a local mail system is that I can read and reply to email 
even offline; it just spools locally and goes out when I'm next online.  
And pretty much _all_ UNIX or UNIXlike (eg Linux) systems have a local 
mail system; it just isn't ideally configured.


And that gets you both local SMTP (usually) and a sendmail command, BTW.


I currently use the mbox format, fetchmail, procmail, and msmtp, but it
is a bit unwieldy and doesn't give me the SQL search interface I'd like.


Ben has mentioned notmuch, which is not SQL but does do decent 
searching. I use it too and have a helper script to "search and pop up a 
results folder in mutt" if you like. I confess however that I have 
aggressive filter rules and use the (l)imit mutt command for most of my 
searching.


Alternatively, put an intercept in your procmail rules to copy every 
message to some tool which reads it and populates your PostgreSQL db 
with relevant data. Of course this won't track message deletions or 
moves/copies.



I realize that in a sense the server/tool I'm looking for has nothing to
do with mutt per se, but I imagine that if anyone is likely to have
built or found something like this, it'd be mutt users.


Heh. We likely have a billion workarounds. And never a single tool :-)

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 

Re: Local mail agent suggestions (gmail -> local postgres -> {local IMAP+SMTP} <-> mutt)?

[Ben Boeckel]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 17:26:31 -0800, Jonathan Gold wrote:
> I currently use the mbox format, fetchmail, procmail, and msmtp, but it
> is a bit unwieldy and doesn't give me the SQL search interface I'd like.

It isn't postgres, but have you looked at notmuch? It has mail-oriented
search tools built-in for outside-of-mutt searching. Example output
here:

% notmuch search mutt-dev
thread:00013927   2015-02-25 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3740: multi-byte 
characters not handled in query window (inbox)
thread:000138f4   2015-01-22 [5/5] Ben Boeckel, David Champion, 
Vincent Lefevre; mutt: Fix the hcache type punning warning. (inbox)
thread:0001387d   2014-08-23 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3699: Enable %a 
for pgp_encrypt_only_command (inbox)
thread:0001312a   2014-06-22 [2/2] Mutt; [Mutt] #3695: OpenPGP: use 
fingerprint instead of key ID (inbox)
thread:00013129   2014-06-22 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3175: mutt should 
display keyid for which it wants the password (inbox)
thread:00013116   2014-05-25 [4/4] Mutt; [Mutt] #3665: Encrypting 
postponed messages (flagged inbox)
thread:000130fb   2014-05-07 [1/1] Mutt; [Mutt] #3687: Threads 
expand when other IMAP clients access IMAP folder (inbox)

https://notmuchmail.org/

--Ben

Local mail agent suggestions (gmail -> local postgres -> {local IMAP+SMTP} <-> mutt)?

[Jonathan Gold]

Hi -- I apologize if I missed the discussion in the archives, but was
wondering if anyone here has suggestions for a single tool that I can
run locally on macos to accomplish the following independent but related
functions?

- Sync a local mail store, built atop postgres, from its
  authoritative representation in gmail. Sync should rebuild
  efficiently from source in the event that the local copy is
  destroyed.

- Provide a sane and accessible postgres schema for mail so I can
  connect directly via psql or other tools and query mail directly,
  filtering by headers and bodies (attachments not so important)

- Provide an IMAP server on localhost to be mutt's interface to the
  postgres mailstore.

- Provide an SMTP server or sendmail-like command line interface for
  mutt to use to send mail

I currently use the mbox format, fetchmail, procmail, and msmtp, but it
is a bit unwieldy and doesn't give me the SQL search interface I'd like.

I realize that in a sense the server/tool I'm looking for has nothing to
do with mutt per se, but I imagine that if anyone is likely to have
built or found something like this, it'd be mutt users.

jonathan

Re: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:

[Matthias Apitz]

El día viernes, octubre 26, 2018 a las 03:47:03p. m. -0500, Hokan escribió:

> This rejection is the result of the "percent hack" implimented on
> sendmail, postfix and, perhaps, other mail servers.
> 
> Nothing to do with Mutt.

Yes, it's a bit off-topic. And, thanks for the pointer to that "percent hack"
I will look for its explanation. Interestingly the mail is accepted and
delivered when I send to

jW-Leserini Verteil 

Thanks again

matthias


-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045
Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub
October, 7 -- The GDR was different: Peace instead of Bundeswehr and wars, 
Druschba
instead of Nazis, to live instead of to survive.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:

[Hokan]

This rejection is the result of the "percent hack" implimented on
sendmail, postfix and, perhaps, other mail servers.

Nothing to do with Mutt.


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:23:22PM +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> This is perhaps not a problem with mutt itself, but maybe some expert can
> lend me a light.
> 
> I'm member of a group and as this I do receive mails sent by others to the 
> addr
> jw%leserini-...@gmx.de. But when I reply, the mail gets rejected, see
> below. How is this possible that the originator can send this mail to 
> jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
> but I can not?
> 
> Thanks
> 
>   matthias
> 
> - Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System 
>  -
> 
> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:51:58 +0200
> From: Mail Delivery System 
> To: g...@unixarea.de
> Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
> 
> This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
> 
> A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
> recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:
> 
>   jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
> host 172.16.28.206 [172.16.28.206]
> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO::
> 550 restricted characters in address
> 
> Reporting-MTA: dns; sh4-5.1blu.de
> 
> Action: failed
> Final-Recipient: rfc822;jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
> Status: 5.0.0
> Remote-MTA: dns; 172.16.28.206
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 restricted characters in address
> 
> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:51:57 +0200
> From: Matthias Apitz 
> To: ...
> Cc: jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
> Subject: Re: Literaturmesse N??rnberg
> 
> 
> Hallo,
> 
> wie ist denn die R??ckfahrt geplant. Wir k??nnen doch nur alle zusammen
> mit dem Bayernticket fahren...
> 
> Gruss
> 
>   matthias
> 
 
-- 
Hokan
Bicyclist
Sysadmin

SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:

[Matthias Apitz]

Hello,

This is perhaps not a problem with mutt itself, but maybe some expert can
lend me a light.

I'm member of a group and as this I do receive mails sent by others to the addr
jw%leserini-...@gmx.de. But when I reply, the mail gets rejected, see
below. How is this possible that the originator can send this mail to 
jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
but I can not?

Thanks

matthias

- Forwarded message from Mail Delivery System  
-

Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:51:58 +0200
From: Mail Delivery System 
To: g...@unixarea.de
Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
host 172.16.28.206 [172.16.28.206]
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO::
550 restricted characters in address

Reporting-MTA: dns; sh4-5.1blu.de

Action: failed
Final-Recipient: rfc822;jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
Status: 5.0.0
Remote-MTA: dns; 172.16.28.206
Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 550 restricted characters in address

Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2018 14:51:57 +0200
From: Matthias Apitz 
To: ...
Cc: jw%leserini-...@gmx.de
Subject: Re: Literaturmesse Nürnberg


Hallo,

wie ist denn die Rückfahrt geplant. Wir können doch nur alle zusammen
mit dem Bayernticket fahren...

Gruss

matthias

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045
Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub
October, 7 -- The GDR was different: Peace instead of Bundeswehr and wars, 
Druschba
instead of Nazis, to live instead of to survive.


- End forwarded message -

-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045
Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub
October, 7 -- The GDR was different: Peace instead of Bundeswehr and wars, 
Druschba
instead of Nazis, to live instead of to survive.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

cannot send large email (with large attachment) using SMTP directly

[Yubin Ruan]

I find that sending a empty email with a ~12M attachment using SMTP directly
will cause a SMTP session error at the end. Is that a mutt problem or the SMTP
server (which is Gmail) problem?

Yubin

-- 
Yubin Ruan <http://fastdrivers.org>

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout -- RESOLVED

[Larry Rosenman]

Yeah, the O365 username is user@domain, so the double at-sign (@) confuses some 
folks….

-- 
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640 E-Mail: l...@lerctr.org
US Mail: 5708 Sabbia Drive, Round Rock, TX 78665-2106
 
 

On 10/3/17, 4:37 PM, "fe...@crowfix.com" <fe...@crowfix.com> wrote:

It was smtp_url.  The definition in the mutt manual says
    
smtp[s]://[user[:pass]@]host[:port]

and I guess I got it confused with http://user:pass@domain, so had
    
smtp://me:p...@corp.com@smtp.office365.com:port

but it should be
    
smtp://m...@corp.com:p...@smtp.office365.com:port

-- 
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
 Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & wood chipper / fe...@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license 
#4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of 
room o

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout -- RESOLVED

[felix]

It was smtp_url.  The definition in the mutt manual says

smtp[s]://[user[:pass]@]host[:port]

and I guess I got it confused with http://user:pass@domain, so had

smtp://me:p...@corp.com@smtp.office365.com:port

but it should be

smtp://m...@corp.com:p...@smtp.office365.com:port

-- 
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
 Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & wood chipper / fe...@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout

[felix]

Yumpin yimeni yehosaphat!

I didn't get the SASL auth fail error message.

I sent a message to a different email account of my own, and got it.

I sent a message to a co-worker, without error, but haven't gotten a reply yet 
... but signs are
good!

I think it was the "smtp_authenticators=login" but I'll have to start adding 
them in one by one to be sure.  I tried so many variations that I lost track; 
could have sworn I tried that, but probably not in the right combination.

Ha ha !!! and thanks.  My mind is dancing the Snoopy dance.

On Tue, Oct 03, 2017 at 02:50:54PM -0500, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 03, 2017 at 07:04:42PM +, fe...@crowfix.com wrote:
> > I doubt very much this is a bug in (neo)mutt.
> > 
> > I also didn't think there was enough difference in the two for it to matter 
> > that I post here.
> > 
> > What I need help with is the configuration.  If K-9 can talk to 
> > smtp.office365.com, surely so can (neo)mutt.  What am I doing wrong?
> > 
> 
> I use the following with office 365:
> --
> set folder=imaps://%40:$my_pass_@outlook.office365.com
> set smtp_url = 
> "smtp://@:$my_pass_@smtp.office365.com:587"
> set imap_check_subscribed=yes
> set imap_idle=yes
> set imap_list_subscribed=no
> set from = "@"
> set realname = "Larry Rosenman"
> set spoolfile= "+INBOX"
> set record = "+Sent Items"
> 
> set smtp_authenticators=login
> mailboxes +INBOX
> account-hook imaps://@@outlook.office365.com "unset 
> imap_headers"
> ---
> where $my_pass_ is set in a different file. 

-- 
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
 Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & wood chipper / fe...@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout

[Tim Chase]

Given the number of typos in your email ("lookout", "Ubunto",
"smtp.offic365.com"), are you sure that you have the protocol
("smtp" vs. "smtps"), server, port, & credentials typed properly?

-tkc


On 2017-10-01 15:35, fe...@crowfix.com wrote:
> I have K-9 email on my Android phone, and it can send email to
> outlook just fine.  But mutt on my Ubunto 17.?? system cannot send
> email; it always gets "SASL authentication failed".
> 
> Here is what K-9 has for its outgoing server:
> 
> SMTP serversmtp.office365.com
> Security   STARTTLS
> Port   587
>Require sign-in
> Authentication Normal password (as opposed to encrypted
> oasswird or certificate)
> 
> Here is what I have for mutt:
> 
> smtp_pass  xxx (just the password; I have also tried
> user@company#pass and several variations) smtp_url
> smtp://user:pass@comp...@smtp.offic365.com:587/ (I have also tried
> outlook.office365) ssl_starttls   yes (I have also tried
> ssl_forcetls)
> 
> There is no sendmail on this system (yet).  It bugs me that the
> damned phone can send directly via office365.com, but not this
> "real" computer.
> 
> And here is mutt -v:
> 
> NeoMutt 20170113 (1.7.2)
> Copyright (C) 1996-2016 Michael R. Elkins and others.
> Mutt comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `mutt -vv'.
> Mutt is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
> under certain conditions; type `mutt -vv' for details.
> 
> System: Linux 4.10.0-36-generic (x86_64)
> libidn: 1.33 (compiled with 1.33)
> hcache backends: tokyocabinet
> 
> Compiler:
> Using built-in specs.
> COLLECT_GCC=gcc
> COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/lto-wrapper
> Target: x86_64-linux-gnu
> Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion='Ubuntu
> 6.3.0-3ubuntu1'
> --with-bugurl=file:///usr/share/doc/gcc-6/README.Bugs
> --enable-languages=c,ada,c++,java,go,d,fortran,objc,obj-c++
> --prefix=/usr --program-suffix=-6
> --program-prefix=x86_64-linux-gnu- --enable-shared
> --enable-linker-build-id --libexecdir=/usr/lib
> --without-included-gettext --enable-threads=posix --libdir=/usr/lib
> --enable-nls --with-sysroot=/ --enable-clocale=gnu
> --enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-libstdcxx-time=yes
> --with-default-libstdcxx-abi=new --enable-gnu-unique-object
> --disable-vtable-verify --enable-libmpx --enable-plugin
> --enable-default-pie --with-system-zlib --disable-browser-plugin
> --enable-java-awt=gtk --enable-gtk-cairo
> --with-java-home=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64/jre
> --enable-java-home
> --with-jvm-root-dir=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64
> --with-jvm-jar-dir=/usr/lib/jvm-exports/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64
> --with-arch-directory=amd64
> --with-ecj-jar=/usr/share/java/eclipse-ecj.jar
> --with-target-system-zlib --enable-objc-gc=auto --enable-multiarch
> --disable-werror --with-arch-32=i686 --with-abi=m64
> --with-multilib-list=m32,m64,mx32 --enable-multilib
> --with-tune=generic --enable-checking=release
> --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --host=x86_64-linux-gnu
> --target=x86_64-linux-gnu Thread model: posix gcc version 6.3.0
> 20170118 (Ubuntu 6.3.0-3ubuntu1) 
> 
> Configure options: '--build=x86_64-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr'
> '--includedir=\${prefix}/include' '--mandir=\${prefix}/share/man'
> '--infodir=\${prefix}/share/info' '--sysconfdir=/etc'
> '--localstatedir=/var' '--disable-silent-rules'
> '--libdir=\${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu'
> '--libexecdir=\${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu'
> '--disable-maintainer-mode' '--disable-dependency-tracking'
> '--with-mailpath=/var/mail' '--enable-compressed' '--enable-debug'
> '--enable-fcntl' '--enable-hcache' '--enable-gpgme' '--enable-imap'
> '--enable-smtp' '--enable-pop' '--enable-sidebar' '--enable-nntp'
> '--enable-notmuch' '--disable-fmemopen' '--with-curses'
> '--with-gnutls' '--with-gss' '--with-idn' '--with-mixmaster'
> '--with-sasl' '--without-gdbm' '--without-bdb' '--without-qdbm'
> '--with-tokyocabinet' 'build_alias=x86_64-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-g -O2
> -fdebug-prefix-map=/build/mutt-DU_6AN/mutt-1.7.2=. -fPIE
> -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security'
> 'LDFLAGS=-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -fPIE -pie -Wl,-z,relro
> -Wl,-z,now' 'CPPFLAGS=-Wdate-time -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2'
> 
> Compilation CFLAGS: -Wall -pedantic -Wno-long-long -g -O2
> -fdebug-prefix-map=/build/mutt-DU_6AN/mutt-1.7.2=. -fPIE
> -fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security
> -fno-delete-null-pointer-checks
> 
> Compile options:
> +CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_PGP +CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_SMIME
> +CRYPT_BACKEND_GPGME +DEBUG +DL_STANDALONE +ENABLE_NLS
> -EXACT_ADDRES

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout

[Larry Rosenman]

On Tue, Oct 03, 2017 at 07:04:42PM +, fe...@crowfix.com wrote:
> I doubt very much this is a bug in (neo)mutt.
> 
> I also didn't think there was enough difference in the two for it to matter 
> that I post here.
> 
> What I need help with is the configuration.  If K-9 can talk to 
> smtp.office365.com, surely so can (neo)mutt.  What am I doing wrong?
> 

I use the following with office 365:
--
set folder=imaps://%40:$my_pass_@outlook.office365.com
set smtp_url = "smtp://@:$my_pass_@smtp.office365.com:587"
set imap_check_subscribed=yes
set imap_idle=yes
set imap_list_subscribed=no
set from = "@"
set realname = "Larry Rosenman"
set spoolfile= "+INBOX"
set record = "+Sent Items"

set smtp_authenticators=login
mailboxes +INBOX
account-hook imaps://@@outlook.office365.com "unset imap_headers"
---
where $my_pass_ is set in a different file. 


-- 
Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 214-642-9640 E-Mail: l...@lerctr.org
US Mail: 5708 Sabbia Drive, Round Rock, TX 78665-2106


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout

[felix]

I doubt very much this is a bug in (neo)mutt.

I also didn't think there was enough difference in the two for it to matter 
that I post here.

What I need help with is the configuration.  If K-9 can talk to 
smtp.office365.com, surely so can (neo)mutt.  What am I doing wrong?

On Tue, Oct 03, 2017 at 07:02:53PM +0200, Marcel Bischoff wrote:
> You do realize that you are using NeoMutt, which is a fork of Mutt? 
> Actually, you did paste the correct place to ask for assistance in your 
> message...

-- 
... _._. ._ ._. . _._. ._. ___ .__ ._. . .__. ._ .. ._.
 Felix Finch: scarecrow repairman & wood chipper / fe...@crowfix.com
  GPG = E987 4493 C860 246C 3B1E  6477 7838 76E9 182E 8151 ITAR license #4933
I've found a solution to Fermat's Last Theorem but I see I've run out of room o

Re: Sending SMTP email to lookout

[Marcel Bischoff]

You do realize that you are using NeoMutt, which is a fork of Mutt? 
Actually, you did paste the correct place to ask for assistance in your 
message...


On 2 Oct 2017, at 0:35, fe...@crowfix.com wrote:


To learn more about NeoMutt, visit: http://www.neomutt.org/
If you find a bug in NeoMutt, please raise an issue at:
https://github.com/neomutt/neomutt/issues
or send an email to: 

Sending SMTP email to lookout

[felix]

I have K-9 email on my Android phone, and it can send email to outlook just 
fine.  But mutt on my Ubunto 17.?? system cannot send email; it always gets 
"SASL authentication failed".

Here is what K-9 has for its outgoing server:

SMTP serversmtp.office365.com
Security   STARTTLS
Port   587
   Require sign-in
Authentication Normal password (as opposed to encrypted oasswird or 
certificate)

Here is what I have for mutt:

smtp_pass  xxx (just the password; I have also tried 
user@company#pass and several variations)
smtp_url   smtp://user:pass@comp...@smtp.offic365.com:587/ (I have 
also tried outlook.office365)
ssl_starttls   yes (I have also tried ssl_forcetls)

There is no sendmail on this system (yet).  It bugs me that the damned phone 
can send directly via office365.com, but not this "real" computer.

And here is mutt -v:

NeoMutt 20170113 (1.7.2)
Copyright (C) 1996-2016 Michael R. Elkins and others.
Mutt comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `mutt -vv'.
Mutt is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it
under certain conditions; type `mutt -vv' for details.

System: Linux 4.10.0-36-generic (x86_64)
libidn: 1.33 (compiled with 1.33)
hcache backends: tokyocabinet

Compiler:
Using built-in specs.
COLLECT_GCC=gcc
COLLECT_LTO_WRAPPER=/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/6/lto-wrapper
Target: x86_64-linux-gnu
Configured with: ../src/configure -v --with-pkgversion='Ubuntu 6.3.0-3ubuntu1' 
--with-bugurl=file:///usr/share/doc/gcc-6/README.Bugs 
--enable-languages=c,ada,c++,java,go,d,fortran,objc,obj-c++ --prefix=/usr 
--program-suffix=-6 --program-prefix=x86_64-linux-gnu- --enable-shared 
--enable-linker-build-id --libexecdir=/usr/lib --without-included-gettext 
--enable-threads=posix --libdir=/usr/lib --enable-nls --with-sysroot=/ 
--enable-clocale=gnu --enable-libstdcxx-debug --enable-libstdcxx-time=yes 
--with-default-libstdcxx-abi=new --enable-gnu-unique-object 
--disable-vtable-verify --enable-libmpx --enable-plugin --enable-default-pie 
--with-system-zlib --disable-browser-plugin --enable-java-awt=gtk 
--enable-gtk-cairo --with-java-home=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64/jre 
--enable-java-home --with-jvm-root-dir=/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64 
--with-jvm-jar-dir=/usr/lib/jvm-exports/java-1.5.0-gcj-6-amd64 
--with-arch-directory=amd64 --with-ecj-jar=/usr/share/java/eclipse-ecj.jar 
--with-target-system-zlib --enable-objc-gc=auto --enable-multiarch 
--disable-werror --with-arch-32=i686 --with-abi=m64 
--with-multilib-list=m32,m64,mx32 --enable-multilib --with-tune=generic 
--enable-checking=release --build=x86_64-linux-gnu --host=x86_64-linux-gnu 
--target=x86_64-linux-gnu
Thread model: posix
gcc version 6.3.0 20170118 (Ubuntu 6.3.0-3ubuntu1) 

Configure options: '--build=x86_64-linux-gnu' '--prefix=/usr' 
'--includedir=\${prefix}/include' '--mandir=\${prefix}/share/man' 
'--infodir=\${prefix}/share/info' '--sysconfdir=/etc' '--localstatedir=/var' 
'--disable-silent-rules' '--libdir=\${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' 
'--libexecdir=\${prefix}/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu' '--disable-maintainer-mode' 
'--disable-dependency-tracking' '--with-mailpath=/var/mail' 
'--enable-compressed' '--enable-debug' '--enable-fcntl' '--enable-hcache' 
'--enable-gpgme' '--enable-imap' '--enable-smtp' '--enable-pop' 
'--enable-sidebar' '--enable-nntp' '--enable-notmuch' '--disable-fmemopen' 
'--with-curses' '--with-gnutls' '--with-gss' '--with-idn' '--with-mixmaster' 
'--with-sasl' '--without-gdbm' '--without-bdb' '--without-qdbm' 
'--with-tokyocabinet' 'build_alias=x86_64-linux-gnu' 'CFLAGS=-g -O2 
-fdebug-prefix-map=/build/mutt-DU_6AN/mutt-1.7.2=. -fPIE 
-fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security' 
'LDFLAGS=-Wl,-Bsymbolic-functions -fPIE -pie -Wl,-z,relro -Wl,-z,now' 
'CPPFLAGS=-Wdate-time -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2'

Compilation CFLAGS: -Wall -pedantic -Wno-long-long -g -O2 
-fdebug-prefix-map=/build/mutt-DU_6AN/mutt-1.7.2=. -fPIE 
-fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security 
-fno-delete-null-pointer-checks

Compile options:
+CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_PGP +CRYPT_BACKEND_CLASSIC_SMIME +CRYPT_BACKEND_GPGME 
+DEBUG +DL_STANDALONE +ENABLE_NLS -EXACT_ADDRESS -HOMESPOOL -LOCALES_HACK 
-SUN_ATTACHMENT +HAVE_BKGDSET +HAVE_COLOR +HAVE_CURS_SET +HAVE_FUTIMENS 
+HAVE_GETADDRINFO +HAVE_GETSID +HAVE_ICONV +HAVE_LANGINFO_CODESET 
+HAVE_LANGINFO_YESEXPR +HAVE_LIBIDN +HAVE_META +HAVE_REGCOMP +HAVE_RESIZETERM 
+HAVE_START_COLOR +HAVE_TYPEAHEAD +HAVE_WC_FUNCS +ICONV_NONTRANS 
+USE_COMPRESSED +USE_DOTLOCK +USE_FCNTL -USE_FLOCK -USE_FMEMOPEN -USE_GNU_REGEX 
+USE_GSS +USE_HCACHE +USE_IMAP +USE_NOTMUCH +USE_NNTP +USE_POP +USE_SASL 
+USE_SETGID +USE_SIDEBAR +USE_SMTP +USE_SSL_GNUTLS -USE_SSL_OPENSSL 
-DOMAIN
MIXMASTER="mixmaster"
-ISPELL
SENDMAIL="/usr/sbin/sendmail"
MAILPATH="/var/mail"
PKGDATADIR="/usr/share/mutt"
SYSCONFDIR="/etc"

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[Erik Christiansen]

On 04.02.17 17:04, sunrise wrote:
> 
> Are there any suggestions for which MTA would be most suitable for
> this purpose (sending queued messages on a system that is not online
> when composing messages)?

They would all handle that, straight out of the box. Mail spooling is a
basic MTA function. (I remember looking at great piles of backed up mail
on a company-wide mailserver which used sendmail and uucp over dial-up,
back in the early 1990s, when the internet in Australia had only spread
to universities and companies.)

I have ADSL, but may not remember to turn on the modem before composing
some emails. Postfix will spool them, and automatically send them after
the ADSL link comes up. The others will too.

Maybe look up the manual on the preferred MTA candidate, and check for
an easy to understand command to flush the queue, in case you ever need
to manually free a logjam for some reason, and you want to get e.g. a
resume out fast.

Erik

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[sunrise]

Thank you for all your replies and suggestions - they were greatly appreciated.

I am using dial-up email and would like to setup a cron job to 1) Dial in to 
the server,
2) Retrieve any messages (probably via getmail4 or similar) and 3) Send any 
queued
messages. So I'm looking into using msmtpq (a script for use with msmtp) with 
mutt.

Are there any suggestions for which MTA would be most suitable for this purpose 
(sending
queued messages on a system that is not online when composing messages)?

Thanks.



On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 21:31:33 +1100
Erik Christiansen <dva...@internode.on.net> wrote:

>On 03.02.17 09:47, Chris Green wrote:
>> ... and if you're on a distribution where Postfix is the standard
>> that's also pretty easy to set up.  I personally prefer Postfix from
>> the ease of configuration point of view.
>
>+1
>
>(It also has a Sendmail compatibility interface, so that we old folks
>could move over painlessly. But now my muscle memory is Postfix oriented.)
>
>> I use Postfix and both send and receive mail using SMTP as my desktop
>> machine is on all the time.  Thus I have no need for POP3/IMAP mail
>> collection.
>
>As my machine is shut down each night, I use fetchmail to bring mail in
>via POP3. It has served me well for several decades now.
>
>Erik

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[sunrise]

Thanks for your input; I will definitely be looking at the possibility of
using offlineimap. I am on a dial up connection - does offlineimap handle 
dropped
connections well?

Thanks again.


On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 21:57:21 + (UTC)
Arkadiusz Drabczyk  wrote:

>On 2017-02-03, sunrise  wrote:
>> I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the 
>> possible
>> options in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to provide me 
>> with a basic
>> muttrc I could use to get started?
>>
>> Here is what I'm looking for:
>>
>> * POP3 (one provider) for retrieving messages
>
>I'd just like to add that these days you should give IMAP a try - I
>find better than POP3 because it automatically synchronizes
>everything.  It's easy to use with mutt as well.
>
>For example, I use offlineimap as the IMAP client on my Slackware box
>and K9Mail e-mail client on my phone.  When I mark a message as read
>on my phone it's automatically marked as read when downloaded with
>offlineimap in mutt, when I send a message on either device it's
>automatically shown in Sent folder on both devices, and when I move a
>a message to a given folder or delete a message it's automatically
>synchronized on both devices.  It's very convenient, especially if get
>a lot of mail.

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[Arkadiusz Drabczyk]

On 2017-02-03, sunrise  wrote:
> I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the 
> possible options
> in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to provide me with a 
> basic muttrc I
> could use to get started?
>
> Here is what I'm looking for:
>
> * POP3 (one provider) for retrieving messages

I'd just like to add that these days you should give IMAP a try - I
find better than POP3 because it automatically synchronizes
everything.  It's easy to use with mutt as well.

For example, I use offlineimap as the IMAP client on my Slackware box
and K9Mail e-mail client on my phone.  When I mark a message as read
on my phone it's automatically marked as read when downloaded with
offlineimap in mutt, when I send a message on either device it's
automatically shown in Sent folder on both devices, and when I move a
a message to a given folder or delete a message it's automatically
synchronized on both devices.  It's very convenient, especially if get
a lot of mail.
-- 
Arkadiusz Drabczyk 

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[Erik Christiansen]

On 03.02.17 09:47, Chris Green wrote:
> ... and if you're on a distribution where Postfix is the standard
> that's also pretty easy to set up.  I personally prefer Postfix from
> the ease of configuration point of view.

+1

(It also has a Sendmail compatibility interface, so that we old folks
could move over painlessly. But now my muscle memory is Postfix oriented.)

> I use Postfix and both send and receive mail using SMTP as my desktop
> machine is on all the time.  Thus I have no need for POP3/IMAP mail
> collection.

As my machine is shut down each night, I use fetchmail to bring mail in
via POP3. It has served me well for several decades now.

Erik

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[Chris Green]

On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 12:11:10AM -0600, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> On Thu, February 2, 2017 10:37 pm, sunrise wrote:
> > I already had getmail set up but didn't have msmtp installed.
> 
> If exim4 is installed and configured, there is no need for msmtp, unless you
> need the profile feature of msmtp which gives you the ability to send
> messages through any of a number of smarthosts.
> 
> Some may argue that exim4 is overkill for most users, but the package is
> mainstream, proven, and very capable; and, with the script provided by the
> Debian maintainer, configuration of exim4 is simple and quick.
> 
... and if you're on a distribution where Postfix is the standard
that's also pretty easy to set up.  I personally prefer Postfix from
the ease of configuration point of view.

I use Postfix and both send and receive mail using SMTP as my desktop
machine is on all the time.  Thus I have no need for POP3/IMAP mail
collection.

-- 
Chris Green

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[rlharris]

On Thu, February 2, 2017 10:37 pm, sunrise wrote:
> I already had getmail set up but didn't have msmtp installed.

If exim4 is installed and configured, there is no need for msmtp, unless you
need the profile feature of msmtp which gives you the ability to send
messages through any of a number of smarthosts.

Some may argue that exim4 is overkill for most users, but the package is
mainstream, proven, and very capable; and, with the script provided by the
Debian maintainer, configuration of exim4 is simple and quick.

RH

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[rlharris]

On Thu, February 2, 2017 10:37 pm, sunrise wrote:
> Thanks a lot for both replies; I feel I am now several steps closer to
> getting a working system. I already had getmail set up but didn't have
> msmtp installed.

The Mail Transfer Agent (on Debian, typically Exim4) handles outgoing
messages on the local machine; these messages are sent to the mail server
of your Internet Service Provider (ISP), which acts as a "smarthost".

If you configure Exim4 (and you should, using the configuration dialogue
provided by the Debian maintainer), you specify the URL of the smarthost
(such as "mail.myisp.net"), the address which is to appear on outgoing
messages ("myn...@myisp.net"), and the password which the smarthost
requires for authentication.  For this, see the command "dpkg-reconfigure
exim4-config" and the files "/etc/email-addresses" and
"/etc/exim4/password-client".



> One question I still have is: What are the advantages of using getmail
> and msmtp versus using mutt's built in POP3 and SMTP capabilities?

The author and maintainer of getmail has taken great pains to ensure that
getmail4 works reliably even if a POP3 server is "broken" (and that often
is the case).  With a properly-configured getmail, you pretty much are
assured of never losing a message.  In salvaging messages from a POP3
server, I personally have used getmail4 to download hundreds of thousands
of messages in a single marathon session running in excess of a day.

And, as I previously mentioned, you can use the combination of getmail4
and maildrop to sort incoming messages in any manner and to any degree you
wish, triggering periodic fetches with a cron job, even if no mutt session
is running.  And then, when you do start mutt, you can view any of the
sort categories independently of the others. Thus, if you are pressed for
time, you can look only at messages of important categories, without the
necessity of wading message-by-message through stuff which is not urgent.

Also, if you do not have 24/7 access to the Internet, delegating
downloading (and sorting, if desired) allows you to go on-line, get your
messages while you browse or do other on-line work, then go offline and
read the messages with mutt.

But those who are accustomed to the Window$ way of doing things may prefer
a monolithic mail client which can fetch directly from a POP3 server and
send directly to a smarthost.

RH

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[dale]

On 2/2/17 9:44 PM, sunrise wrote:

I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the 
possible options
in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to provide me with a basic 
muttrc I
could use to get started?

Here is what I'm looking for:

* POP3 (one provider) for retrieving messages
* SMTP for sending
* Mail stored in maildir format in $HOME

Using Mutt 1.5.21

Thanks!




I think there is an example .muttrc in /etc/mutt

--
dale | http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[sunrise]

On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 04:15:23 +0100
Francesco Ariis <fa...@ariis.it> wrote:

>On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 08:44:34PM -0600, sunrise wrote:
>> I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the 
>> possible
>> options in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to provide me 
>> with a basic
>> muttrc I could use to get started?
>
>This is what I have:
>
>set mbox_type=Maildir
>set folder="~/mail"
>set mask="!^\\.[^.]"
>
>mailboxes "+inbox" # ~/mail/inbox
>
>set record="+sent" # ~/mail/sent
>set postponed="+drafts" # etc.
>set trash="+trash"
>
>set realname="Plato"
>
>set envelope_from=yes
>set sendmail="msmtp -C /home/f/cfg/msmtp/msmtpall"
># msmtp is small, efficient and easy to configure
>
>macro generic \e0 'bash -ic "k echo Checking mail...; getmail -g
>~/cfg/getmail -r getmailconf; echo over"'
># alt-0 to download messages
>
>
>Mutt is a client, so you will have to configure msmtp and getmail yourself
>(they are easy enough). If you need more help fire again in the mailing
>list and please consider updating the wiki with your use case when
>you succeed.


Thanks a lot for both replies; I feel I am now several steps closer to getting 
a working
system. I already had getmail set up but didn't have msmtp installed.

One question I still have is: What are the advantages of using getmail and 
msmtp versus
using mutt's built in POP3 and SMTP capabilities?

Thank you for your time.

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[Francesco Ariis]

On Thu, Feb 02, 2017 at 08:44:34PM -0600, sunrise wrote:
> I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the 
> possible options
> in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to provide me with a 
> basic muttrc I
> could use to get started?

This is what I have:

set mbox_type=Maildir
set folder="~/mail"
set mask="!^\\.[^.]"

mailboxes "+inbox" # ~/mail/inbox

set record="+sent" # ~/mail/sent
set postponed="+drafts" # etc.
set trash="+trash"

set realname="Plato"

set envelope_from=yes
set sendmail="msmtp -C /home/f/cfg/msmtp/msmtpall"
# msmtp is small, efficient and easy to configure

macro generic \e0 'bash -ic "k echo Checking mail...; getmail -g 
~/cfg/getmail -r getmailconf; echo over"'
# alt-0 to download messages


Mutt is a client, so you will have to configure msmtp and getmail yourself
(they are easy enough). If you need more help fire again in the mailing
list and please consider updating the wiki with your use case when
you succeed.

Re: Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[rlharris]

On Thu, February 2, 2017 8:44 pm, sunrise wrote:
> I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the
> possible options in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to
> provide me with a basic muttrc I could use to get started?

That's why they make search engines; you can find dozens of muttrc files,
and any number of muttrc tutorials.

You might consider using getmail4 for POP3?  getmail4 is reliable and easy
to configure, and by using getmail4 you simplify the configuration of
muttrc.

Later you can add maildrop to sort into categories messages retrieved by
getmail4 -- it is a nice combination.

RH

Muttrc example needed POP3/SMTP

[sunrise]

I would like to start using mutt but am somewhat intimidated by all the 
possible options
in the muttrc config file. Would someone be willing to provide me with a basic 
muttrc I
could use to get started?

Here is what I'm looking for:

* POP3 (one provider) for retrieving messages
* SMTP for sending
* Mail stored in maildir format in $HOME

Using Mutt 1.5.21

Thanks!

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[dale]

On 07/28/2016 09:00 PM, Nathan Stratton Treadway wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 20:23:49 -0400, dale wrote:

On 07/28/2016 07:39 PM, dale wrote:

On 07/28/2016 04:10 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2016-07-28, dale <d...@dalekelly.org> wrote:


I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I
use SMTP


How do you "directly send" without using SMTP?



with the default sending mechanism that came with it before I configured
SMTP variables


I believe the default is to use the "sendmail" command to submit the
message to the local mail delivery system.  (But it sounds like the
local delivery system is unable to actually send the outgoing message,
presumably because it is trying to use the smtp port in its delivery
attempts, too.)



note that I can use the same SMTP configuration in thunderbird, icedove
and agent


If those programs are able to send outgoing email successfully, check
their configuration carefully.  Most likely they are configured to use
the "submission" port (587) instead of the "smtp" port (25) (and your
ISP allows traffic to the former but not the latter).

Nathan





the following link led me to use port 465 and specify smtps

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/128004/mutt-not-sending-email-when-specifying-smtp-server

this is the line in my .muttrc that made it work

set smtp_url="smtps://d...@dalekelly.org@smtpout.secureserver.net:465"

hope it doesn't change ...

thanks for all the help





--
dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[dale]

On 07/28/2016 09:00 PM, Nathan Stratton Treadway wrote:

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 20:23:49 -0400, dale wrote:

On 07/28/2016 07:39 PM, dale wrote:

On 07/28/2016 04:10 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2016-07-28, dale <d...@dalekelly.org> wrote:


I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I
use SMTP


How do you "directly send" without using SMTP?



with the default sending mechanism that came with it before I configured
SMTP variables


I believe the default is to use the "sendmail" command to submit the
message to the local mail delivery system.  (But it sounds like the
local delivery system is unable to actually send the outgoing message,
presumably because it is trying to use the smtp port in its delivery
attempts, too.)



note that I can use the same SMTP configuration in thunderbird, icedove
and agent


If those programs are able to send outgoing email successfully, check
their configuration carefully.  Most likely they are configured to use
the "submission" port (587) instead of the "smtp" port (25) (and your
ISP allows traffic to the former but not the latter).

Nathan




Thanks, got a routing error with port 587, pressed q a lot of times than 
cancelled the terminal because I want to start over and see any 
progression of messages and copy them besides just the routing error, 
now regardless of many times I switch the port my ,muttrc back and forth 
can't get the routing error to pop up, same with no port


might not have a fully qualified domain name set up in my /etc/hosts and 
/etc/hostname , I recall a good Ubuntu Forums guide for this but during 
reconfigs didn't save the link, I'll look around


Thanks again,


--
Dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[Nathan Stratton Treadway]

On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 20:23:49 -0400, dale wrote:
> On 07/28/2016 07:39 PM, dale wrote:
> >On 07/28/2016 04:10 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >>On 2016-07-28, dale <d...@dalekelly.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>>I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I
> >>>use SMTP
> >>
> >>How do you "directly send" without using SMTP?
> >>
> >
> >with the default sending mechanism that came with it before I configured
> >SMTP variables

I believe the default is to use the "sendmail" command to submit the
message to the local mail delivery system.  (But it sounds like the
local delivery system is unable to actually send the outgoing message,
presumably because it is trying to use the smtp port in its delivery
attempts, too.)

> 
> note that I can use the same SMTP configuration in thunderbird, icedove 
> and agent

If those programs are able to send outgoing email successfully, check
their configuration carefully.  Most likely they are configured to use
the "submission" port (587) instead of the "smtp" port (25) (and your
ISP allows traffic to the former but not the latter). 

Nathan

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[dale]

On 07/28/2016 07:39 PM, dale wrote:

On 07/28/2016 04:10 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2016-07-28, dale <d...@dalekelly.org> wrote:


I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I
use SMTP


How do you "directly send" without using SMTP?



with the default sending mechanism that came with it before I configured
SMTP variables

Debian GNU/Linux 8 (jessie) 64-bit

and

Mutt 1.5.23-3 which came installed as I saw in the package manager

mentioned ESMTP in description ...

I'm probably wrong



note that I can use the same SMTP configuration in thunderbird, icedove 
and agent


--
Dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[dale]

On 07/28/2016 04:10 PM, Grant Edwards wrote:

On 2016-07-28, dale <d...@dalekelly.org> wrote:


I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I
use SMTP


How do you "directly send" without using SMTP?



with the default sending mechanism that came with it before I configured 
SMTP variables


Debian GNU/Linux 8 (jessie) 64-bit

and

Mutt 1.5.23-3 which came installed as I saw in the package manager

mentioned ESMTP in description ...

I'm probably wrong

--
Dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[Grant Edwards]

On 2016-07-28, dale <d...@dalekelly.org> wrote:

> I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I 
> use SMTP

How do you "directly send" without using SMTP?

-- 
Grant Edwards   grant.b.edwardsYow! I don't understand
  at   the HUMOUR of the THREE
  gmail.comSTOOGES!!

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[dale]

On 07/28/2016 01:46 PM, hy...@lactose.homelinux.net wrote:

dale writes:

my ISP doesn't allow direct email



set smtp_url="smtp://d...@dalekelly.org@smtpout.secureserver.net:25"



I get the following messages
Connecting to smtpout.secureserver.net...
Could not connect to smtpout.secureserver.net (Interrupted system call).


It's very likely that your ISP is blocking access to port 25.  Many of
them do.

--hymie! http://lactose.homelinux.net/~hymiehy...@lactose.homelinux.net




I get a reply from my ISP when I try to directly send, no message when I 
use SMTP


I can use SMTP in other programs

--
Dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: mutt smtp/pop

[hymie]

dale writes:
>my ISP doesn't allow direct email

>set smtp_url="smtp://d...@dalekelly.org@smtpout.secureserver.net:25"

>I get the following messages
>Connecting to smtpout.secureserver.net...
>Could not connect to smtpout.secureserver.net (Interrupted system call).

It's very likely that your ISP is blocking access to port 25.  Many of
them do.

--hymie! http://lactose.homelinux.net/~hymiehy...@lactose.homelinux.net

mutt smtp/pop

[dale]

I used to use Mutt on Ubuntu from the repository and got it to work 
except for smtp TLS, my ISP doesn't allow direct email, still doesn't I 
get a reply mail saying so


I am now using

Debian GNU/Linux 8 (jessie) 64-bit

and

Mutt 1.5.23-3 which came installed as I saw in the package manager

I copied /etc/Muttrc to ~/.muttrc

and like before added

set realname="Dale"
set from="d...@dalekelly.org"

set smtp_url="smtp://d...@dalekelly.org@smtpout.secureserver.net:25"

set smtp_pass="password"

set pop_host="pop://d...@dalekelly.org@pop.secureserver.net:110"

set pop_pass="password"

I get the following messages
Connecting to smtpout.secureserver.net...
Could not connect to smtpout.secureserver.net (Interrupted system call).

pop works

I noticed ESMTP support declaration in the package manager description, 
could there be a conflict?


--
Dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

Re: Send mail in background with built-in SMTP client?

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Saturday, April 16, 2016 a las 03:25:31PM -0400, Xu Wang escribió:

> > I understand this config value for the $sendmail proc, as the man page
> > also explains. Does this really also affect the built-in SMTP client
> > functionality?
> 
> Yes I understand the same as you, so there is no solution for built-in
> SMTP client?

No. I understand SMTP in mutt as "mutt is directly talking SMTP to peer"
and this not in some child proc or thread. It will just wait whatever
the result of the SMTP chat will be, ofc with timeouts if the peer is
not responding (anymore).

matthias
-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
¡Dios querido denos otra vez los problemas de ayer, los que tuvimos en la RDA!
My Lord, give us back the problems of yesterday, those we have had in the GDR.

Re: Send mail in background with built-in SMTP client?

[Xu Wang]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2016 at 1:25 AM, Matthias Apitz <g...@unixarea.de> wrote:
> El día Thursday, April 14, 2016 a las 07:59:56PM -0700, Claus Assmann 
> escribió:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, Xu Wang wrote:
>>
>> > I use mutt's built-in SMTP client. I would like to press 'y' and
>> > immediately be able to move on to my next email without waiting. I
>>
>> Did you check the fine manual?
>>
>> 3.234. sendmail_wait
>>
>> ...
>
> I understand this config value for the $sendmail proc, as the man page
> also explains. Does this really also affect the built-in SMTP client
> functionality?

Yes I understand the same as you, so there is no solution for built-in
SMTP client?

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: Send mail in background with built-in SMTP client?

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Thursday, April 14, 2016 a las 07:59:56PM -0700, Claus Assmann escribió:

> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, Xu Wang wrote:
> 
> > I use mutt's built-in SMTP client. I would like to press 'y' and
> > immediately be able to move on to my next email without waiting. I
> 
> Did you check the fine manual?
> 
> 3.234. sendmail_wait
> 
> ...

I understand this config value for the $sendmail proc, as the man page
also explains. Does this really also affect the built-in SMTP client
functionality?

matthias


-- 
Matthias Apitz, ✉ g...@unixarea.de, ⌂ http://www.unixarea.de/  ☎ 
+49-176-38902045
¡Dios querido denos otra vez los problemas de ayer, los que tuvimos en la RDA!
My Lord, give us back the problems of yesterday, those we have had in the GDR.

Re: Send mail in background with built-in SMTP client?

[Xu Wang]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Claus Assmann <mutt+us...@esmtp.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, Xu Wang wrote:
>
>> I use mutt's built-in SMTP client. I would like to press 'y' and
>> immediately be able to move on to my next email without waiting. I
>
> Did you check the fine manual?
>
> 3.234. sendmail_wait
>
> Type: number
> Default: 0
>
> Specifies the number of seconds to wait for the $sendmail process to finish
> before giving up and putting delivery in the background.
>
> Mutt interprets the value of this variable as follows:
>
> +-+
> |>0|number of seconds to wait for sendmail to finish before continuing|
> |--+--|
> |0 |wait forever for sendmail to finish   |
> |--+--|
> |<0|always put sendmail in the background without waiting |
> +-+
>
> Note that if you specify a value other than 0, the output of the child process
> will be put in a temporary file. If there is some error, you will be informed
> as to where to find the output.
>

Thank you very much Claus. I did not check manual (I have read it two
times all the way through before, but I forget details). Thank you for
walking me through it and getting started. For more details I will
read manual.

Kind regards!

Xu

Re: Send mail in background with built-in SMTP client?

[Claus Assmann]

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016, Xu Wang wrote:

> I use mutt's built-in SMTP client. I would like to press 'y' and
> immediately be able to move on to my next email without waiting. I

Did you check the fine manual?

3.234. sendmail_wait

Type: number
Default: 0

Specifies the number of seconds to wait for the $sendmail process to finish
before giving up and putting delivery in the background.

Mutt interprets the value of this variable as follows:

+-+
|>0|number of seconds to wait for sendmail to finish before continuing|
|--+--|
|0 |wait forever for sendmail to finish   |
|--+--|
|<0|always put sendmail in the background without waiting |
+-+

Note that if you specify a value other than 0, the output of the child process
will be put in a temporary file. If there is some error, you will be informed
as to where to find the output.

Send mail in background with built-in SMTP client?

[Xu Wang]

Dear all,

I use mutt's built-in SMTP client. I would like to press 'y' and
immediately be able to move on to my next email without waiting. I
understand why it is important to wait---if the email send failed,
then it is important for you to know that. But is it possible to be
notified of a failed email in another way instead of having to wait?

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Xu Wang]

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Kevin J. McCarthy  wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 07:38:41PM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
>> Unfortunately,
>> mutt -H - < email_file
>> does not work when email_file has embedded attachments. To see this
>> use mutt to write an email, attach two PDF files, and then use the
>> above command on that email file.
>>
>> Send the email to yourself. You should see that the attachments were
>> not sent correctly.
>>
>> Is this a bug or is this a known limitation to mutt -H?
>
> This should work in the latest mercurial versions (or in 1.6, coming out
> tomorrow).  It doesn't work in 1.5.24.

Oh great news! I look forward to release of 1.6.

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Xu Wang]

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Christian Ebert  wrote:
> * Xu Wang on Sunday, April 03, 2016 at 19:38:41 -0400
>> Unfortunately,
>> mutt -H - < email_file
>> does not work when email_file has embedded attachments. To see this
>> use mutt to write an email, attach two PDF files, and then use the
>> above command on that email file.
>>
>> Send the email to yourself. You should see that the attachments were
>> not sent correctly.
>>
>> Is this a bug or is this a known limitation to mutt -H?
>
> The manual knows it:
>
> -H draft
>Specify a draft file which contains header and body
>to use to send a message.
>
> Header and body, not attachment - for the latter you need the -a
> option.

Oh good to know! But I thought attachment is encoded in base64 into
the body, no?

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Christian Ebert]

* Xu Wang on Sunday, April 03, 2016 at 19:38:41 -0400
> Unfortunately,
> mutt -H - < email_file
> does not work when email_file has embedded attachments. To see this
> use mutt to write an email, attach two PDF files, and then use the
> above command on that email file.
> 
> Send the email to yourself. You should see that the attachments were
> not sent correctly.
> 
> Is this a bug or is this a known limitation to mutt -H?

The manual knows it:

-H draft
   Specify a draft file which contains header and body
   to use to send a message.

Header and body, not attachment - for the latter you need the -a
option.

-- 
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http://www.facebook.com/blacktrashproductions

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Kevin J. McCarthy]

On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 07:38:41PM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
> Unfortunately,
> mutt -H - < email_file
> does not work when email_file has embedded attachments. To see this
> use mutt to write an email, attach two PDF files, and then use the
> above command on that email file.
> 
> Send the email to yourself. You should see that the attachments were
> not sent correctly.
> 
> Is this a bug or is this a known limitation to mutt -H?

This should work in the latest mercurial versions (or in 1.6, coming out
tomorrow).  It doesn't work in 1.5.24.

-- 
Kevin J. McCarthy
GPG Fingerprint: 8975 A9B3 3AA3 7910 385C  5308 ADEF 7684 8031 6BDA
http://www.8t8.us/configs/gpg-key-transition-statement.txt


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Description: PGP signature

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Xu Wang]

Unfortunately,
mutt -H - < email_file
does not work when email_file has embedded attachments. To see this
use mutt to write an email, attach two PDF files, and then use the
above command on that email file.

Send the email to yourself. You should see that the attachments were
not sent correctly.

Is this a bug or is this a known limitation to mutt -H?

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Xu Wang]

On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 11:59 PM, Will Yardley
<mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 10:18:28PM +0100, Larry Hynes wrote:
>> Sat 02 Apr 2016 15:23 (-0400) Xu Wang <xuwang...@gmail.com>:
>> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Larry Hynes <la...@larryhynes.com> wrote:
>> > > Sat 02 Apr 2016 12:02 (-0400) Xu Wang <xuwang...@gmail.com>:
>> > > > On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Will Yardley 
>> > > > <mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net> wrote:
>> > > > > On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 01:19:12AM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:
>
>> > > > > > Suppose that I have a full email (i.e. with headers and 
>> > > > > > everything).
>> > > > > > e.g. I want to keep the message ID the same. How can I used mutt's
>> > > > > > build-in smtp to send the email? Basically i want mutt to just send
>> > > > > > the email that is already written and not change any header.
>
>> > > > > You can use 'bounce-message' (I think b with default bindings) to
>> > > > > redirect the message to one or more recipients, though Mutt will add 
>> > > > > a
>> > > > > few headers, most starting with 'Resent-' (Message-ID will stay the
>> > > > > same).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You can use 'resend-message' (esc-e) to use the current message as a
>> > > > > template for the new one, but Message-ID will change.
>
>> > > > Thank you, Will. is there any way to send from command-line?
>
>> > > Have you tried using mutt's '-H' option? e.g. `mutt -H draftfile`
>
>> > That is great but I would like automation. I would like something like
>> > mutt -s "Test from mutt" exam...@notsure.com < email_file
>> > but something that works with just
>> > mutt < email_file
>> > and nothing else (because the subject and email address are already 
>> > specified).
>
>> echo | mutt -H email_file
>
> This works (as does mutt -H - < email_file), but in my test, the
> Message-ID is set by mutt, not from header input. So I think -H only
> takes the headers that can be edited when $edit_headers is set.
>
> So finding a way to use the  command without requiring
> interaction, or just using Sendmail or similar is the best bet based on
> your original request.

For me it works and the message-ID is preserved. I imagine that the
message-ID in the file must be correct and that mutt checks this and
it creates a new one if it doesn't pass sanity checkers.

Thank you to all for help and encouraging.

Kind regards,

Xu

Re: How to send a pre-written full email with mutt's built-in smtp

[Will Yardley]

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 10:18:28PM +0100, Larry Hynes wrote:
> Sat 02 Apr 2016 15:23 (-0400) Xu Wang <xuwang...@gmail.com>:
> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:39 PM, Larry Hynes <la...@larryhynes.com> wrote:
> > > Sat 02 Apr 2016 12:02 (-0400) Xu Wang <xuwang...@gmail.com>:
> > > > On Sat, Apr 2, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Will Yardley 
> > > > <mutt-us...@veggiechinese.net> wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 01:19:12AM -0400, Xu Wang wrote:

> > > > > > Suppose that I have a full email (i.e. with headers and everything).
> > > > > > e.g. I want to keep the message ID the same. How can I used mutt's
> > > > > > build-in smtp to send the email? Basically i want mutt to just send
> > > > > > the email that is already written and not change any header.

> > > > > You can use 'bounce-message' (I think b with default bindings) to
> > > > > redirect the message to one or more recipients, though Mutt will add a
> > > > > few headers, most starting with 'Resent-' (Message-ID will stay the
> > > > > same).
> > > > > 
> > > > > You can use 'resend-message' (esc-e) to use the current message as a
> > > > > template for the new one, but Message-ID will change.

> > > > Thank you, Will. is there any way to send from command-line?

> > > Have you tried using mutt's '-H' option? e.g. `mutt -H draftfile`

> > That is great but I would like automation. I would like something like
> > mutt -s "Test from mutt" exam...@notsure.com < email_file
> > but something that works with just
> > mutt < email_file
> > and nothing else (because the subject and email address are already 
> > specified).

> echo | mutt -H email_file

This works (as does mutt -H - < email_file), but in my test, the
Message-ID is set by mutt, not from header input. So I think -H only
takes the headers that can be edited when $edit_headers is set.

So finding a way to use the  command without requiring
interaction, or just using Sendmail or similar is the best bet based on
your original request.

w