RE: Operational value and legality of Spamhaus vs. unfounded accusations by Elad Cohen

[Cooke, David]

Could I request NANOG to remove this thread completely and take the soap opera 
elsewhere.

dc

From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-bounces+david.cooke=baesystemsdetica@nanog.org] 
On Behalf Of Owen DeLong
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:55 PM
To: Elad Cohen
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Operational value and legality of Spamhaus vs. unfounded accusations 
by Elad Cohen


PHISHING ALERT
This email has been sent from an account outside of the BAE Systems network.

Be aware that this could be a phishing attempt. For more guidance, search 
"phishing email" on Connect. If you think this is a phishing email report it 
using the "PhishMe" button on Outlook.


Subject changed per request from NANOG staff.


On May 13, 2020, at 19:20 , Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:


This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see nothing 
in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal.

According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive on 
a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and 
internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law 
Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant).

https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation<https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
 >

You keep claiming that they receive this data in an illegal way, yet have not 
substantiated that claim with any actual evidence.

Continuing to point to the same slide deck which only states that they hold a 
lot of information provided in confidence by industry players and that the 
“players” in question provide the information with the understanding that 
Spamhaus may pass it on to LEA “where needed”.

There’s nothing in the slide deck about the nature of the information (nothing 
says it is private data, though I suppose that might be implied to some extent 
by “provided in confidence”). Certainly nothing says that it is illegal for 
their contacts to provide said data or that they don’t have appropriate 
permission from the data owners, etc.


Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G 
Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide.

Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas 
Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact.
Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a 
private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never knew 
that it will become public.

You’ll need to provide a basis and some evidence to back that up. Otherwise, 
it’s just your word, which frankly, IMHO, isn’t worth the electrons it’s 
transmitted on.



I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, they 
would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: 
https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/<https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ >

They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high 
volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the 
illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other 
way.

Not generally the way criminals work.

Again, “illegally obtained privacy data” is your accusation without evidence so 
far.

Do you have a basis for this claim? Do you have evidence to support it?



I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they 
would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National 
Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance.

Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement Agencies, 
such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com<http://deteque.com/ > - owned by 
Spamhaus) - which was a former special agent in USA government before hoped to 
his new job at Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law Enforcement Agencies in 
the Western world.

So your claim is that the FBI is supporting former agents who have become 
career criminals and are operating organizations that should be prosecuted 
under the RICO act?

That’s quite an accusation… Care to present any evidence to back it up? Truth 
is an absolute defense to defamation in the US, but unless you have some 
evidence to back that up, the only thing protecting you from a successful 
lawsuit at this point is probably:
+  Your credibility is so completely lacking, it’s unlikely 
your (likely false) accusations are causing actual harm (the plaintiff must 
show harm)
+  They probably consider it to be not worth their time and 
expense to bother with you.



Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”.

Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way.

You keep saying this as if continuing to repeat it while still providing zero 
evidence to support the cl

Operational value and legality of Spamhaus vs. unfounded accusations by Elad Cohen

[Owen DeLong]

Subject changed per request from NANOG staff.

> On May 13, 2020, at 19:20 , Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> 
> This is the second time I’ve seen you make this claim in public. I see 
> nothing in the slide deck you linked which claims they are illegal.
> 
> According to their private presentation in the following link - they receive 
> on a regular basis private data from their contacts in internet companies and 
> internet organizations in illegal way - and then they share it with Law 
> Enforcement Agencies in illegal way (without any warrant).
> 
> https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation
>  
> <https://www.scribd.com/document/445894312/Spamhaus-Illegal-Private-Data-Violation>

You keep claiming that they receive this data in an illegal way, yet have not 
substantiated that claim with any actual evidence.

Continuing to point to the same slide deck which only states that they hold a 
lot of information provided in confidence by industry players and that the 
“players” in question provide the information with the understanding that 
Spamhaus may pass it on to LEA “where needed”.

There’s nothing in the slide deck about the nature of the information (nothing 
says it is private data, though I suppose that might be implied to some extent 
by “provided in confidence”). Certainly nothing says that it is illegal for 
their contacts to provide said data or that they don’t have appropriate 
permission from the data owners, etc.

> 
> Nor does it say that they are anonymous, in fact, the CIO’s name (Richard D G 
> Cox) is prominently displayed on the title slide.
> 
> Spamhaus using fake names such as "Mike Anderson", "Rob Shultz", "Thomas 
> Morrison", "Pete Dewas" - is a fact.
> Richard D G Cox name is displayed in the presentation - because it was a 
> private presentation that was displayed in a private event and they never 
> knew that it will become public.

You’ll need to provide a basis and some evidence to back that up. Otherwise, 
it’s just your word, which frankly, IMHO, isn’t worth the electrons it’s 
transmitted on.

> 
> I seriously doubt that if they were truly the criminals you say they are, 
> they would be permitted to name the FBI as a partner on their website: 
> https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/ 
> <https://www.spamhaus.org/organization/>
> 
> They are helping Law Enforcement Agencies on a regular basis and in very high 
> volume according to their own presentation (by sharing with them all the 
> illegaly-obtained privacy data) - so Law Enforcement Agencies look the other 
> way.

Not generally the way criminals work.

Again, “illegally obtained privacy data” is your accusation without evidence so 
far.

Do you have a basis for this claim? Do you have evidence to support it?

> 
> I also sincerely doubt that if they were criminals, as you state, that they 
> would be admitted as members, let alone receive awards from the National 
> Cber-Forensics and Training Alliance.
> 
> Some of the employees of Spamhaus are past members of Law Enforcement 
> Agencies, such as Andrew Fried (from deteque.com <http://deteque.com/> - 
> owned by Spamhaus) - which was a former special agent in USA government 
> before hoped to his new job at Spamhaus. They are connected to the Law 
> Enforcement Agencies in the Western world.

So your claim is that the FBI is supporting former agents who have become 
career criminals and are operating organizations that should be prosecuted 
under the RICO act?

That’s quite an accusation… Care to present any evidence to back it up? Truth 
is an absolute defense to defamation in the US, but unless you have some 
evidence to back that up, the only thing protecting you from a successful 
lawsuit at this point is probably:
+   Your credibility is so completely lacking, it’s unlikely your 
(likely false) accusations are causing actual harm (the plaintiff must show 
harm)
+   They probably consider it to be not worth their time and 
expense to bother with you.

> 
> Indeed, ISPA has also presented them with an “Internet Hero Award”.
> 
> Yes, they help Law Enforcement Agencies, but in illegal way.

You keep saying this as if continuing to repeat it while still providing zero 
evidence to support the claim somehow makes it more believable.

It is true that repeating a lie makes it more likely for others to fall for it, 
but only if those to whom you are repeating the lie aren’t aware that it’s a 
lie. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect>

The problem you have here is that your audience knows better.

> 
> Frankly, when it comes to the issues of criminality, I think Spamhaus has 
> 

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Töma Gavrichenkov]

Peace,

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 12:54 AM Ronald F. Guilmette
 wrote:
> Those were all helpfully routed, until quite recently, to Mr. Cohen

The person with exactly the same name now runs for the RIPE NCC
Executive Board membership.

https://www.ripe.net/participate/meetings/gm/meetings/may-2020/confirmed-candidates

--
Töma

Re: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Suresh Ramasubramanian]

Jesus was crucified during the later years of the reign of Tiberius

Hadrian on the other hand would have been loved by 45 for his dedication to 
building the wall

--srs


From: NANOG  on behalf of Mark Seiden 
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 11:47 PM
To: Large Hadron Collider; Valdis Klētnieks
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

Wasn’t Hadron a Roman emperor who can somehow be blamed for the killing of 
Jesus?
(or was that Jebus?)

or was that Hadrian?  I forget…)

(jest sayin’…)




On Jan 27, 2020, 9:41 AM -0800, Valdis Klētnieks , 
wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 07:10:02 +, Large Hadron Collider said:
As much as Mr Cohen's minor libel of Spamhaus and ARIN exposes him as perhaps
having something to hide on this subject, Mr Guilmette's message here, among
the other screeds of his I have read, seems to leak anti-Semitism from its
every fetid, infected pore.

Man, that must be one really high-frqequency dog whistle, because I'm not 
seeing it.

The closest I can come is the statement that "Cohen sits in impunity in
Israel", which combined the next part about him having a US based lawyer, only
indicated to me that getting the US legal system to get the Israel legal system
to do something is difficult.

And tagging on "every fetid, infected pore" certainly demonstrates that you
don't have any real intention of being fair-minded.

List management: I think we have a good candidate for somebody to be
frog-marched to the exit.

Re: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Mark Seiden]

Wasn’t Hadron a Roman emperor who can somehow be blamed for the killing of 
Jesus?
(or was that Jebus?)

or was that Hadrian?  I forget…)

(jest sayin’…)




On Jan 27, 2020, 9:41 AM -0800, Valdis Klētnieks , 
wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 07:10:02 +, Large Hadron Collider said:
> > As much as Mr Cohen's minor libel of Spamhaus and ARIN exposes him as 
> > perhaps
> > having something to hide on this subject, Mr Guilmette's message here, among
> > the other screeds of his I have read, seems to leak anti-Semitism from its
> > every fetid, infected pore.
>
> Man, that must be one really high-frqequency dog whistle, because I'm not 
> seeing it.
>
> The closest I can come is the statement that "Cohen sits in impunity in
> Israel", which combined the next part about him having a US based lawyer, only
> indicated to me that getting the US legal system to get the Israel legal 
> system
> to do something is difficult.
>
> And tagging on "every fetid, infected pore" certainly demonstrates that you
> don't have any real intention of being fair-minded.
>
> List management: I think we have a good candidate for somebody to be
> frog-marched to the exit.

Re: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Mon, 27 Jan 2020 07:10:02 +, Large Hadron Collider said:
> As much as Mr Cohen's minor libel of Spamhaus and ARIN exposes him as perhaps
> having something to hide on this subject, Mr Guilmette's message here, among
> the other screeds of his I have read, seems to leak anti-Semitism from its
> every fetid, infected pore.

Man, that must be one really high-frqequency dog whistle, because I'm not 
seeing it.

The closest I can come is the statement that "Cohen sits in impunity in
Israel", which combined the next part about him having a US based lawyer, only
indicated to me that getting the US legal system to get the Israel legal system
to do something is difficult.

And tagging on "every fetid, infected pore" certainly demonstrates that you
don't have any real intention of being fair-minded.

List management:  I think we have a good candidate for somebody to be
frog-marched to the exit.


pgp31rD4Xy46l.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Owen DeLong]

Perhaps nobody should be using NANOG to trade ad hominem attacks in any case.

Just my $0.02.

Owen


> On Jan 27, 2020, at 08:02 , William Herrin  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:11 AM Large Hadron Collider
>  wrote:
>> As much as Mr Cohen's minor libel of Spamhaus and ARIN exposes him as perhaps
>> having something to hide on this subject, Mr Guilmette's message here, among
>> the other screeds of his I have read, seems to leak anti-Semitism from its
>> every fetid, infected pore.
> 
> Unless automata at CERN have recently gained sentience, perhaps folks
> unwilling to sign their real name shouldn't be flinging around this
> sort of accusation.
> 
> 
> -- 
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[William Herrin]

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 7:11 AM Large Hadron Collider
 wrote:
> As much as Mr Cohen's minor libel of Spamhaus and ARIN exposes him as perhaps
> having something to hide on this subject, Mr Guilmette's message here, among
> the other screeds of his I have read, seems to leak anti-Semitism from its
> every fetid, infected pore.

Unless automata at CERN have recently gained sentience, perhaps folks
unwilling to sign their real name shouldn't be flinging around this
sort of accusation.


-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Prominent horse racing identities (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Large Hadron Collider]

As much as Mr Cohen's minor libel of Spamhaus and ARIN exposes him as perhaps
having something to hide on this subject, Mr Guilmette's message here, among
the other screeds of his I have read, seems to leak anti-Semitism from its
every fetid, infected pore.

I have no doubt that Mr Cohen, in acting in a manner that could be construed
as libeling ARIN and Spamhaus, as well as in this unproven allegation of IP
address space misappropriation that he is acting particularly guilty of, has
things he needs to answer for and has not. However, given this performance and
others I've read from Mr Guilmette, I would not hesitate to ascribe the same
quality to Mr Guilmette.

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 04:03:35 -0700
"Ronald F. Guilmette"  wrote:

> In message <8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io>,
> Florian Brandstetter  wrote:
>
> >... this is certainly not a place where you can
> >slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for the
> >entertainment of everyone...
>
> If I have slandered anyone, then I shall bear the price for that, in
> accordance with law.  I have accepted that risk, in order to say what
> I have said, and I have done so from within the most litigious nation
> on earth.
>
> Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
> pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
> due him?
>
> Mr. Cohen sits with impunity in Israel, and by remote control appears to
> request his California lawyer, the colorful and storied Mr. Bennett Kelley,
> to file suit against me, even as Mr. Cohen takes IPv4 space away from
> legitimate businesses and governmental entities in South Africa, Australia,
> and Japan, also by remote control, and also with the relative impunity
> afforded him by his sheer distance from these places.  I have risked
> my neck, my reputation, and my entire bank account in order to call him
> out, and if you think that I have done so lightly or without evidence you
> are wrong.  Meanwhile, what has Mr. Cohen risked?  And who will see to it
> that he pays an appropriate price, in Israel, if I am right and he is wrong?
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg


--
Large Hadron Collider 

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[niels=nanog]

* r...@tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) [Fri 20 Sep 2019, 00:50 CEST]:
Leaving aside the minor quibble that "Dutch" is not, as far as I am 
aware, a "race" per se, I do apologize for having improperly and 
quite wrongly generalized the apparent confluence of of certain 
events and actions to the Dutch people generally.  That was entirely 
incorrect and improper on my part and I do sincerly apologize.


Apologies on my end as well, Ronald. I should not have said racist; 
bigoted would have been a more apt description of your earlier screed.

Again, I do apologise, I was clearly in the wrong here.


... it's difficult for me not to infer a possible pattern.


Yep. Sure.


-- Niels.

Re: Word Usage (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Mike Bolitho]

Everytime you guys change the subject on this pointless thread, you break
my filter. Admins can you please take action on this? Enough is enough.

-Mike Bolitho

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 3:21 AM James Downs via NANOG  wrote:

> For the record:
>
> Slander is false *spoken* statements.
> Libel is false *written* statements.
>
> HTH, HAND.
>

Word Usage (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[James Downs via NANOG]

For the record:

Slander is false *spoken* statements.
Libel is false *written* statements.

HTH, HAND.

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message <20190919084649.gc30...@jima.tpb.net>, 
niels=na...@bakker.net wrote:

>* r...@tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) [Thu 19 Sep 2019, 10:05 CEST]:
>>I never like to generalize to entire populations, and I will 
>>therefore refrain from suggesting any endemic or widespread defect 
>>in the Dutch national psyche, but I cannot help but note that, as 
>>pointed out in the MyBroadband.co.za news report, a gentleman named 
>>Maikel Uerlings, who is also Dutch, and who presently appears to be 
>>notably absent from the Netherlands, perhaps due to certain 
>>less-than-friendly legal entanglements, is also, it appears, 
>>intimately connected to Mr. Cohen and to his business, such as it 
>>is.  It would be entirely improper for me to say or even to suggest 
>>that the Dutch are any more inclined toward cybercrime, or toward 
>>looking the other way while it takes place, than anyone else.  I 
>>will instead only paraphrase William Shakespeare and say that there 
>>is something rotten in the Netherlands, and that whatever it is, it 
>>ain't doing their national reputation any good at all.
>
>Couching your racism in some faux plausible deniability by using 
>phrases such as "It would be entirely improper of me to" or "I will 
>refrain from [making a certain racist suggestion]" and then immediately 
>making that racist suggestion, doesn't make your remarks not racist.  
>Nor can you hide behind the classics.
>
>Racism has no place in this community and you would do well to refrain 
>from posting any more such remarks.

Leaving aside the minor quibble that "Dutch" is not, as far as I am aware,
a "race" per se, I do apologize for having improperly and quite wrongly
generalized the apparent confluence of of certain events and actions to
the Dutch people generally.  That was entirely incorrect and improper on
my part and I do sincerly apologize.

Looking back now at one of my own posts here from a couple of years ago,
I do see that at the time, there did seem to be some similar sorts of
undesirable and arguably untowards routing events which were emmanating
from AS260, Xconnect24 Inc., which at the time appeared to me to be an
Amsterdam-based networking company:

https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html

(The company still does appear to have some footprint in Amsterdam.)

Obviously, those historical events have no relation whatsoever to present
circumstances or to recent events, but given that I've not generally seen
much of this kind of stuff from other European locales... with the
exception of Ukraine... it's difficult for me not to infer a possible
pattern.

That having been said, the "pattern" such as it is, is quite obviously
not one that can or should be attributed to the Dutch people generally,
who make the world's best and most admirable chocolate, wooden shoes,
and windmills, by the way.  Rather, the pattern, if there even is one,
seems to be confined exclusively and only to the networking community
and its associated professionals within the city limits of Amsterdam.
And furthermore, I am quite entirely sure that even the majority of this
small group are admirable and honorable people, doing their level best,
day in and day out, to provide quality and honest service to their
neighbors, their countrymen, and to the people of Europe generally.

My hope is that it will not be inappropriate for me to simply express my
sincere desire that this overwehlming majority, i.e. the good men and
women of the Amsterdam networking community will, over time, work to
insure that that all members of their community adhere to the highest
ethical standards in all respects and at all times.


Regards,
rfg

RE: Elad Cohen

[Michel Py]

> Elad Cohen wrote :
> Mr. Ronald Guilmette
> It is hinted from your tongue-lashing, that you are connected clearly with 
> Spamhaus and ARIN

What a joke, given the sour relation between him and ARIN and his very public 
views about enforcing the law of the land locally.
Ronald may be tilting at windmills at times and not be the most polite person,  
but I don't doubt his motives.


> Matt Corallo wrote :
> Come on dude, you could just respond with the requested LoAs and purchase 
> agreements and yet instead you threaten
> lawsuits. No one with half a brain even skimming this thread will conclude 
> that you're innocent in this matter (a lapse in
> accuracy or two here and there by Mr Guilmette notwithstanding). Take your 
> useless grandstanding elsewhere.

+1

> Richard Golodner wrote :
> Mr. Guilmette, my curiosity has now been increased as I notice Cogent is no 
> longer supplying routing for the /16's you have spoken of.
[..] I have never seen Cogent behave in this manner unless there really is some 
nefarious activity in regards to the blocks in question.

I would second that, and it depends on your definition of nefarious. Cogent 
will route any block you pay them to, even if you had to kill their own mother 
to obain it.
As long as you pay.
I suspect there is a financial aspect in that. The little popcorn we see in 
here does not strike me as a good enough reason for Cogent to dump a paying 
customer.

Michel.


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Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Christopher Morrow]

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 11:43 AM William Herrin  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 7:58 AM Christopher Morrow  
> wrote:
>>
>> What I'm asking is: "there is already repair for the harmed parties,
>> if they are not taking advantage of this then I don't think we need to
>> spend more time on this topic"
>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I respectfully disagree with the assertion that "there is already repair." 
> Getting an entity

cool! :)

> on the other side of the planet whose front-line contacts don't speak your 
> language to
> correct local configuration overrides associated with your address space 
> turns out to be
> a hard task. Getting several hundred entities

Sure,  getting in touch can be rough.
1) publish ROA for your prefixes
2) call upstream and have them note the presence of the ROA
3) done

it's always a tad more complex, and in situations where actual traffic
loss is occurring this
is frustrating to deal with :( but... These are the tools available.
Shouting into the wind (nanog)
really isn't helping, and I'd argue that in this particular case the
'original owners[tm]' don't know
and probably don't even care.

Of course, the above 3 step process does mean that:
  o You have the RIR credentials to do the RPKI dances.
  o You actually noticed the problem.
  o Where in the world waldo (or your prefixes) appeared mattered to you

I think in the cases outlined so far here, these three are missing and
arguably not important to the
'original owner[tm]' of the space/blocks.

> to do so, because they've all acted independently in response to the problem 
> with your
> address space, is functionally insurmountable. It victimizes the folks whose 
> addresses
> were stolen beyond repair.

In this case I don't think 'stolen' is important... sadly these spaces
went fallow and were lost in time :(
having dealt with many cases of this for my current/past employer I'm
sensitive to the problem :( and
have had good/bad dealings with folks with problems like this... The
tools do exist, we should all use
them.

> Regards,
> Bill Herrin

always a pleasure! :)
-chris

> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: This endless pissing contest is operational, how? Re: Elad Cohen

[John Sage]

On 9/19/19 9:03 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:

On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:08 AM, John Sage  wrote:


On 9/19/19 3:25 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:

Mr. Ronald Guilmette


Are there *any* moderators #OnHere at all?


Moderators? No. Anyone subscribed to the list can post anything at any time.

But posts are reviewed after the fact if there is suspicion or accusations of 
AUP violation.

That is not a real-time process. Give them a day or so.

In the mean time, may I suggest procmail (or whatever your MTA/MUA's filtering 
system is called)?




Yes. Already getting hits in my killfile (as I still call it; I'm old...)

http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/bionic/man1/procmail.1.html


- John
--

Re: This endless pissing contest is operational, how? Re: Elad Cohen

[Patrick W. Gilmore]

On Sep 19, 2019, at 9:08 AM, John Sage  wrote:
> 
> On 9/19/19 3:25 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
>> Mr. Ronald Guilmette
> 
> Are there *any* moderators #OnHere at all?

Moderators? No. Anyone subscribed to the list can post anything at any time.

But posts are reviewed after the fact if there is suspicion or accusations of 
AUP violation.

That is not a real-time process. Give them a day or so.

In the mean time, may I suggest procmail (or whatever your MTA/MUA's filtering 
system is called)?

-- 
TTFN,
patrick

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[William Herrin]

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 7:58 AM Christopher Morrow 
wrote:

> What I'm asking is: "there is already repair for the harmed parties,
> if they are not taking advantage of this then I don't think we need to
> spend more time on this topic"
>

Hi Chris,

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that "there is already repair."
Getting an entity on the other side of the planet whose front-line contacts
don't speak your language to correct local configuration overrides
associated with your address space turns out to be a hard task. Getting
several hundred entities to do so, because they've all acted independently
in response to the problem with your address space, is functionally
insurmountable. It victimizes the folks whose addresses were stolen beyond
repair.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Christopher Morrow]

On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 4:05 AM Ronald F. Guilmette
 wrote:
>
> In message 
> 
> Christopher Morrow  wrote:
>
> >"who cares about the sale?"
>
> My apologies.  I see that I have failed to be adequately clear.
>

I was misunderstood I think.
What I'm asking is: "there is already repair for the harmed parties,
if they are not taking advantage of this then I don't think we need to
spend more time on this topic"

There is a bunch of focus on 'sale' or 'barter' or 'receipts' or
'theft', none of that really matters if the harmed parties and RIRs
aren't going to request/take action.

-chris

Elad Cohen, show us!

[Stephen Satchell]

On 9/19/19 2:47 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> It is not related to nefarious activity as you wrote, FDCServers
> policy is to stop routing any ranges which is in Spamhaus SBL (no
> matter what), due to the phear from Spamhaus to list all of
> FDCServers ranges in SBL, which was told to us in a documented phone
> call, listing all of the ranges by Spamhaus is a known agrressive and
> bullying tactic by Spamhaus as you can find in many webpages online.
Do you think Spamhaus uses "aggressive and bullying tactic[s]"?  You
never lived under the sword of SPEWS.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_Prevention_Early_Warning_System

As a former abuse and mail admin in a web hosting company with (at the
time) 3000 domains serviced, I found Spamhaus to be a firm but fair
organization.  Respond quickly and effectively to abuse complaints,
stoping the spam flow, Spamhaus delisted -- sometimes without being
asked to.

Note: this list is of and for network operators.  Spamhaus and other
DNSBLs are the subject for a mailing list of and for mail admins.

Re: Elad Cohen, show us!

[Stephen Satchell]

On 9/19/19 2:47 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:
> It is not related to nefarious activity as you wrote, FDCServers
> policy is to stop routing any ranges which is in Spamhaus SBL (no
> matter what), due to the phear from Spamhaus to list all of
> FDCServers ranges in SBL, which was told to us in a documented phone
> call, listing all of the ranges by Spamhaus is a known agrressive and
> bullying tactic by Spamhaus as you can find in many webpages online.
Do you think Spamhaus uses "aggressive and bullying tactic[s]"?  You
never lived under the sword of SPEWS.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam_Prevention_Early_Warning_System

As a former abuse and mail admin in a web hosting company with (at the
time) 3000 domains serviced, I found Spamhaus to be a firm but fair
organization.  Respond quickly and effectively to abuse complaints,
stoping the spam flow, Spamhaus delisted -- sometimes without being
asked to.

Note: this list is of and for network operators.  Spamhaus and other
DNSBLs are the subject for a mailing list of and for mail admins.

This endless pissing contest is operational, how? Re: Elad Cohen

[John Sage]

On 9/19/19 3:25 AM, Elad Cohen wrote:

Mr. Ronald Guilmette


Are there *any* moderators #OnHere at all?

Re: Elad Cohen

[Florian Brandstetter via NANOG]

Ronald,

You don’t have to jump into such a defensive position to my comment.
I am neither siding with Mr. Cohen on this case nor with your side, I am
merely a neutral third sharing his thoughts.

> Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
> pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
> due him?

Inevitably, he will lose access to the resources mentioned shall it turn out
you are right on this case, whilst this does not impose any further consequences
in itself, you at least achieved a re-establishment of ordinariness, which, 
given
this is an open discussion on a public mailing list, should be priority #1.

I will be honest with you here, you could have brought the point(s) you are 
making across in a different fashion, which does not even give the accused
party any opportunities to sue for libel or slander. Given that you are right on
this case, this ultimately should not matter, however, shall it turn out you are
wrong, or your point is deemed to be invalid (by whoever), you might not have
a joker left to pull. Ultimately to cut a lot of words short, you might have 
more
success in this case by sticking closely to obvious or proven facts which they
can not subsequently declare as libel.

I do not comment on this because I am against your desire to have a clear
overview of what actually goes on here, I am also not commenting to have
fun or mess with either of you, I am merely objecting the way of communication
that happens at this stage.

> On 19.09.2019, at 13:03, Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:
> 
> In message <8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io>, 
> Florian Brandstetter  wrote:
> 
>> ... this is certainly not a place where you can 
>> slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for the 
>> entertainment of everyone...
> 
> If I have slandered anyone, then I shall bear the price for that, in
> accordance with law.  I have accepted that risk, in order to say what
> I have said, and I have done so from within the most litigious nation
> on earth.
> 
> Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
> pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
> due him?
> 
> Mr. Cohen sits with impunity in Israel, and by remote control appears to
> request his California lawyer, the colorful and storied Mr. Bennett Kelley,
> to file suit against me, even as Mr. Cohen takes IPv4 space away from
> legitimate businesses and governmental entities in South Africa, Australia,
> and Japan, also by remote control, and also with the relative impunity
> afforded him by his sheer distance from these places.  I have risked
> my neck, my reputation, and my entire bank account in order to call him
> out, and if you think that I have done so lightly or without evidence you
> are wrong.  Meanwhile, what has Mr. Cohen risked?  And who will see to it
> that he pays an appropriate price, in Israel, if I am right and he is wrong?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Elad Cohen]

Agreements were already sent to Spamhaus and from there were transferred to Jan 
Vermeulen, the "friend" of Ronald, unfortunately Ronald decided that they are 
"forged" because they have the same police stamp in the same position (these 
are not different documents, but the same single document that on each sending 
to Spamhaus, the other non-relevant netblocks were grayed-out)

Regarding:
"No one with half a brain even skimming this thread will conclude that you're 
innocent in this matter"
Can you please write based on what you are writing it? (we will very appreciate 
facts and not opinions)

From: Matt Corallo 
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:35 PM
To: Elad Cohen 
Cc: Ronald F. Guilmette ; nanog@nanog.org 

Subject: Re: Elad Cohen

Come on dude, you could just respond with the requested LoAs and purchase 
agreements and yet instead you threaten lawsuits. No one with half a brain even 
skimming this thread will conclude that you're innocent in this matter (a lapse 
in accuracy or two here and there by Mr Guilmette notwithstanding).

Take your useless grandstanding elsewhere.

Matt

On Sep 19, 2019, at 13:18, Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:

Mr. Ronald Guilmette

The way you called us in this forum incessantly, thieves and crooks, is not the 
right way, this is libel for all intents and purposes, we will not wrangle with 
you in this forum as this subject was transferred our lawyers.

We are sure that in one year, you will not be such a "hero" and a "savior" as 
you represent yourself today.

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Ronald F. Guilmette mailto:r...@tristatelogic.com>>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:03 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: Elad Cohen

In message 
<8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io<mailto:8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io>>,
Florian Brandstetter mailto:flori...@globalone.io>> 
wrote:

>... this is certainly not a place where you can
>slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for the
>entertainment of everyone...

If I have slandered anyone, then I shall bear the price for that, in
accordance with law.  I have accepted that risk, in order to say what
I have said, and I have done so from within the most litigious nation
on earth.

Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
due him?

Mr. Cohen sits with impunity in Israel, and by remote control appears to
request his California lawyer, the colorful and storied Mr. Bennett Kelley,
to file suit against me, even as Mr. Cohen takes IPv4 space away from
legitimate businesses and governmental entities in South Africa, Australia,
and Japan, also by remote control, and also with the relative impunity
afforded him by his sheer distance from these places.  I have risked
my neck, my reputation, and my entire bank account in order to call him
out, and if you think that I have done so lightly or without evidence you
are wrong.  Meanwhile, what has Mr. Cohen risked?  And who will see to it
that he pays an appropriate price, in Israel, if I am right and he is wrong?


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Matt Corallo]

Come on dude, you could just respond with the requested LoAs and purchase 
agreements and yet instead you threaten lawsuits. No one with half a brain even 
skimming this thread will conclude that you're innocent in this matter (a lapse 
in accuracy or two here and there by Mr Guilmette notwithstanding).

Take your useless grandstanding elsewhere.

Matt

> On Sep 19, 2019, at 13:18, Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
> Mr. Ronald Guilmette
> 
> The way you called us in this forum incessantly, thieves and crooks, is not 
> the right way, this is libel for all intents and purposes, we will not 
> wrangle with you in this forum as this subject was transferred our lawyers.
> 
> We are sure that in one year, you will not be such a "hero" and a "savior" as 
> you represent yourself today.
> From: NANOG  on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:03 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org 
> Subject: Re: Elad Cohen
>  
> In message <8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io>, 
> Florian Brandstetter  wrote:
> 
> >... this is certainly not a place where you can 
> >slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for the 
> >entertainment of everyone...
> 
> If I have slandered anyone, then I shall bear the price for that, in
> accordance with law.  I have accepted that risk, in order to say what
> I have said, and I have done so from within the most litigious nation
> on earth.
> 
> Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
> pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
> due him?
> 
> Mr. Cohen sits with impunity in Israel, and by remote control appears to
> request his California lawyer, the colorful and storied Mr. Bennett Kelley,
> to file suit against me, even as Mr. Cohen takes IPv4 space away from
> legitimate businesses and governmental entities in South Africa, Australia,
> and Japan, also by remote control, and also with the relative impunity
> afforded him by his sheer distance from these places.  I have risked
> my neck, my reputation, and my entire bank account in order to call him
> out, and if you think that I have done so lightly or without evidence you
> are wrong.  Meanwhile, what has Mr. Cohen risked?  And who will see to it
> that he pays an appropriate price, in Israel, if I am right and he is wrong?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Elad Cohen]

Mr. Ronald Guilmette

The way you called us in this forum incessantly, thieves and crooks, is not the 
right way, this is libel for all intents and purposes, we will not wrangle with 
you in this forum as this subject was transferred our lawyers.

We are sure that in one year, you will not be such a "hero" and a "savior" as 
you represent yourself today.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette 

Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 2:03 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: Elad Cohen

In message <8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io>,
Florian Brandstetter  wrote:

>... this is certainly not a place where you can
>slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for the
>entertainment of everyone...

If I have slandered anyone, then I shall bear the price for that, in
accordance with law.  I have accepted that risk, in order to say what
I have said, and I have done so from within the most litigious nation
on earth.

Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
due him?

Mr. Cohen sits with impunity in Israel, and by remote control appears to
request his California lawyer, the colorful and storied Mr. Bennett Kelley,
to file suit against me, even as Mr. Cohen takes IPv4 space away from
legitimate businesses and governmental entities in South Africa, Australia,
and Japan, also by remote control, and also with the relative impunity
afforded him by his sheer distance from these places.  I have risked
my neck, my reputation, and my entire bank account in order to call him
out, and if you think that I have done so lightly or without evidence you
are wrong.  Meanwhile, what has Mr. Cohen risked?  And who will see to it
that he pays an appropriate price, in Israel, if I am right and he is wrong?


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message <8a49bf73-7a68-4b8f-9dc5-e94b7fe63...@globalone.io>, 
Florian Brandstetter  wrote:

>... this is certainly not a place where you can 
>slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for the 
>entertainment of everyone...

If I have slandered anyone, then I shall bear the price for that, in
accordance with law.  I have accepted that risk, in order to say what
I have said, and I have done so from within the most litigious nation
on earth.

Meanwhile, if I am right and if Mr. Cohen is wrong, then what price will he
pay for his misdeeds, and who will see to it that he receives the justice
due him?

Mr. Cohen sits with impunity in Israel, and by remote control appears to
request his California lawyer, the colorful and storied Mr. Bennett Kelley,
to file suit against me, even as Mr. Cohen takes IPv4 space away from
legitimate businesses and governmental entities in South Africa, Australia,
and Japan, also by remote control, and also with the relative impunity
afforded him by his sheer distance from these places.  I have risked
my neck, my reputation, and my entire bank account in order to call him
out, and if you think that I have done so lightly or without evidence you
are wrong.  Meanwhile, what has Mr. Cohen risked?  And who will see to it
that he pays an appropriate price, in Israel, if I am right and he is wrong?


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Bjørn Mork]

Jon Sands  writes:
> On 9/19/2019 6:12 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>
>> I just want to ruling on this.  Am I the first and only person who has ever
>> received a cartooney directly on the NANOG list?
>
> I can't remember if it was over NANOG or not, but back in 2010 a good
> friend of mine Mike Bailey (now deceased) received similar bold faced
> legal threats (mostly threats of DMCA if I remember right) from FDC
> Servers when he exposed to the WHT forums that they were at the time
> using power strips daisy chained, motherboards sitting on cardboard,
> etc in their chicago datacenter - he documented with pictures a number
> of fire code violations and was threatened with DMCA notices for
> it. Sadly the pictures no longer load, but oh boy were they special:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20100228172939/http://ub3r.net/fdc/readme.htm

You can see one of those pics here:
https://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/IT-watch-blog/fdcservers-colocation-data-center-gives-new-life-to-the-term-boxen/

> I do agree though, this should probably be taken way off-list.

Sure.  But there is still some popcorn left ;-)


Bjørn

Re: Elad Cohen

[Elad Cohen]

Mr. Ronald Guilmette

You are the only person that called us thieves and crooks without any proof and 
for that we will discuss in the lawsuit against you.

From: NANOG  on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette 

Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:12 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: Elad Cohen

In message , Elad Cohen  wrote:

>Mr. Ronald Guilmette
>
>Everything you did and you wrote in this forum until today, including mud-
>slinging and slandering, including thieves and crooks, they are libel for all
>intents and purposes with everything it implies, and this without to
>display any proof.
>
>We return and say, in our hands are all the agreements of the purchases that
>we've purchased properly with our best money.

Mr. Cohen,

I'm sure that I speak for many when I say that we all very much look
forward to seeing the unredacted copies of those alleged purchase
agreements, whenever you can take time out from your busy schedule to
produce them.

It would also be helpful if you would include whatever additional documents,
as may be necessary, to demonstrate convincingly that whoever you allegedly
bought the blocks from came by them honestly, and not due to some earlier
skulduggery, particularly the ones I have already mentioned, e.g. the
168.198.0.0/16 block, the 139.44.0.0/16 block, the 165.25.0.0/16 block,
and not least the Infoplan/SITA block, 196.16.0.0/14.

>It is hinted from your tongue-lashing, that you are connected clearly with
>Spamhaus and ARIN, that have an interest to receive the ranges, following
>the increase of value of the ranges in the free market and the lack of them.

Gosh darm it!  You caught me!  I'm really a stealth IP speculator.  I didn't
want it publicly known that I have been sitting all this time on an enormous
stash of no fewer than two whole IPv4 addresses.  I also didn't want it
known that I am actually in league with Spamhaus, ARIN, Vladimir Putin,
the Marx Brothers, Boris Johnson, Ricky Gervais, and oh yes, Beelzebub.
But now that the cat is out of the bag, I might as well fess up.  Yes,
we have all been plotting together to steal your valuable stash of IPv4
addresses, and in fact, Cogent is in on the plot too.  I would have told
you sooner, but I was busy eating children... with a nice chianti, of
course.

>All of this subject was transferred to our lawyers, due to the mudslinging
>and slandering and the nicknames you wrote thieves and crooks in this forum
>a libel suit against you will be filed with a high amount, of course that
>all of the written proofs an agreements regarding the legal purchases that
>we've made will be added to the libel suit.

Is the official NANOG historian in the house?

I just want to ruling on this.  Am I the first and only person who has ever
received a cartooney directly on the NANOG list?

I just want to know if I can go ahead and contact the Guinness people, and
get this unique feat recorded officially.


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Florian Brandstetter via NANOG]

Hello Ronald,

I don’t particularly side with any party here, but as already made clear 
indirectly by my passive aggressive tone on your trace route (which was nothing 
but a route loop in cogent’s network), I do certainly disagree with the way you 
treat Mr. Cohen. This comes due to the nature that whilst this whole story 
might be quite funny and interesting to follow, this is certainly not a place 
where you can slander his name or anyone associated with him in any manner for 
the entertainment of everyone. It is - at least speaking for myself - fairly 
interesting to follow the development of this story, but then again you act a 
lot like you just want to slander Mr. Cohen and his affiliates instead of doing 
this is some sort of general pointing out (which then again defeats the point 
of taking this on the list). Perhaps keeping messages to the list limited to 
updates with actual proof behind might be the way forward instead of starting a 
legal war. Keep in mind, I’m not even judging here if what happens is 
legitimate or not.

—
Florian

> On 19.09.2019, at 12:12, Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:
> 
> In message 
>  ROD.OUTLOOK.COM>, Elad Cohen  wrote:
> 
>> Mr. Ronald Guilmette
>> 
>> Everything you did and you wrote in this forum until today, including mud-
>> slinging and slandering, including thieves and crooks, they are libel for all
>> intents and purposes with everything it implies, and this without to
>> display any proof.
>> 
>> We return and say, in our hands are all the agreements of the purchases that
>> we've purchased properly with our best money.
> 
> Mr. Cohen,
> 
> I'm sure that I speak for many when I say that we all very much look
> forward to seeing the unredacted copies of those alleged purchase
> agreements, whenever you can take time out from your busy schedule to
> produce them.
> 
> It would also be helpful if you would include whatever additional documents,
> as may be necessary, to demonstrate convincingly that whoever you allegedly
> bought the blocks from came by them honestly, and not due to some earlier
> skulduggery, particularly the ones I have already mentioned, e.g. the
> 168.198.0.0/16 block, the 139.44.0.0/16 block, the 165.25.0.0/16 block,
> and not least the Infoplan/SITA block, 196.16.0.0/14.
> 
>> It is hinted from your tongue-lashing, that you are connected clearly with
>> Spamhaus and ARIN, that have an interest to receive the ranges, following
>> the increase of value of the ranges in the free market and the lack of them.
> 
> Gosh darm it!  You caught me!  I'm really a stealth IP speculator.  I didn't
> want it publicly known that I have been sitting all this time on an enormous
> stash of no fewer than two whole IPv4 addresses.  I also didn't want it
> known that I am actually in league with Spamhaus, ARIN, Vladimir Putin,
> the Marx Brothers, Boris Johnson, Ricky Gervais, and oh yes, Beelzebub.
> But now that the cat is out of the bag, I might as well fess up.  Yes,
> we have all been plotting together to steal your valuable stash of IPv4
> addresses, and in fact, Cogent is in on the plot too.  I would have told
> you sooner, but I was busy eating children... with a nice chianti, of
> course.
> 
>> All of this subject was transferred to our lawyers, due to the mudslinging
>> and slandering and the nicknames you wrote thieves and crooks in this forum
>> a libel suit against you will be filed with a high amount, of course that
>> all of the written proofs an agreements regarding the legal purchases that
>> we've made will be added to the libel suit.
> 
> Is the official NANOG historian in the house?
> 
> I just want to ruling on this.  Am I the first and only person who has ever
> received a cartooney directly on the NANOG list?
> 
> I just want to know if I can go ahead and contact the Guinness people, and
> get this unique feat recorded officially.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Jon Sands]

On 9/19/2019 6:12 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


I just want to ruling on this.  Am I the first and only person who has ever
received a cartooney directly on the NANOG list?


I can't remember if it was over NANOG or not, but back in 2010 a good 
friend of mine Mike Bailey (now deceased) received similar bold faced 
legal threats (mostly threats of DMCA if I remember right) from FDC 
Servers when he exposed to the WHT forums that they were at the time 
using power strips daisy chained, motherboards sitting on cardboard, etc 
in their chicago datacenter - he documented with pictures a number of 
fire code violations and was threatened with DMCA notices for it. Sadly 
the pictures no longer load, but oh boy were they special: 
https://web.archive.org/web/20100228172939/http://ub3r.net/fdc/readme.htm


I do agree though, this should probably be taken way off-list.

--
Jon Sands
MFI Labs
https://fohdeesha.com/

Re: Elad Cohen

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message , Elad Cohen  wrote:

>Mr. Ronald Guilmette
>
>Everything you did and you wrote in this forum until today, including mud-
>slinging and slandering, including thieves and crooks, they are libel for all
>intents and purposes with everything it implies, and this without to
>display any proof.
>
>We return and say, in our hands are all the agreements of the purchases that
>we've purchased properly with our best money.

Mr. Cohen,

I'm sure that I speak for many when I say that we all very much look
forward to seeing the unredacted copies of those alleged purchase
agreements, whenever you can take time out from your busy schedule to
produce them.

It would also be helpful if you would include whatever additional documents,
as may be necessary, to demonstrate convincingly that whoever you allegedly
bought the blocks from came by them honestly, and not due to some earlier
skulduggery, particularly the ones I have already mentioned, e.g. the
168.198.0.0/16 block, the 139.44.0.0/16 block, the 165.25.0.0/16 block,
and not least the Infoplan/SITA block, 196.16.0.0/14.

>It is hinted from your tongue-lashing, that you are connected clearly with
>Spamhaus and ARIN, that have an interest to receive the ranges, following
>the increase of value of the ranges in the free market and the lack of them.

Gosh darm it!  You caught me!  I'm really a stealth IP speculator.  I didn't
want it publicly known that I have been sitting all this time on an enormous
stash of no fewer than two whole IPv4 addresses.  I also didn't want it
known that I am actually in league with Spamhaus, ARIN, Vladimir Putin,
the Marx Brothers, Boris Johnson, Ricky Gervais, and oh yes, Beelzebub.
But now that the cat is out of the bag, I might as well fess up.  Yes,
we have all been plotting together to steal your valuable stash of IPv4
addresses, and in fact, Cogent is in on the plot too.  I would have told
you sooner, but I was busy eating children... with a nice chianti, of
course.

>All of this subject was transferred to our lawyers, due to the mudslinging
>and slandering and the nicknames you wrote thieves and crooks in this forum
>a libel suit against you will be filed with a high amount, of course that
>all of the written proofs an agreements regarding the legal purchases that
>we've made will be added to the libel suit.

Is the official NANOG historian in the house?

I just want to ruling on this.  Am I the first and only person who has ever
received a cartooney directly on the NANOG list?

I just want to know if I can go ahead and contact the Guinness people, and
get this unique feat recorded officially.


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Masataka Ohta]

Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


Just injecting false route information may not be a crime.

However, doing so for financial gain maybe a crime of fraud.


I guess that there is something that either you, or perhaps I, are not
understanding here.


> Financial gain appears to me to be the obvious motivation for all
> of this.

You still don't understand what are the "elements" of a crime of
fraud, even though the code explicitly state:

 (1)  A person is guilty of an offence if
 (a)  the person, by a deception, dishonestly obtains
 a financial advantage from another person; and

which means prosecutors must prove existence of "financial
advantage" in court with evidences even if you think it obvious.


In the case if the APNIC region blocks that I have called out, I have -no-
evidence to suggest that there has been any deception or untoward manipulation
of registry information whatsoever.


For the purpose of criminal prosecution, it is enough if someone
in APNIC, Merit, FDCservers or Cogent is deceived.

As, according to you, false route is actually advertised, someone
should be deceived.


With respect to the AFRINIC region blocks I have called out, if you have a
relevant citation from the criminal code of the island nation of Mauritius,
I would be most appreciative if you would share that with me.  It may come
in handy at some point.


I'm afraid code more useful to a person living in Zambia is that
of Zambia. Anyway, in any country where registration fraud of
real estate is criminal, which practically means in all the
countries, registration fraud of IPv4 address is criminal.

A problem, however, is that prosecution in Zambia or Mauritius may
not be very effective to a person living in Israel.

Anyway, as accusation is free, you may try.

Masataka Ohta

Re: Elad Cohen, show us!

[Elad Cohen]

Hello Richard,

It is not related to nefarious activity as you wrote, FDCServers policy is to 
stop routing any ranges which is in Spamhaus SBL (no matter what), due to the 
phear from Spamhaus to list all of FDCServers ranges in SBL, which was told to 
us in a documented phone call, listing all of the ranges by Spamhaus is a known 
agrressive and bullying tactic by Spamhaus as you can find in many webpages 
online.

You can find the same aggressive Spamhaus bullying tactic written here by 
Ronald Guilmette vs AMS-IX:

"In the case of AMS-IX, it is my sincere hope that it will not again
require another unfortunate confrontation with Spamhaus in order to
bring them around to yet another "Come To Jesus" moment, but at present
they do appear bent on defending their rights to do the indefensible,
despite anything approximating reasoned argument... as has happened
before in their case."


From: NANOG  on behalf of Richard 

Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 3:28 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Elad Cohen, show us!


Mr. Guilmette, my curiosity has now been increased as I notice Cogent is no 
longer supplying routing for the /16's you have spoken of. It certainly would 
be nice to see Mr. Cohen demonstrate proof of legitimate ownership. I have 
never seen Cogent behave in this manner unless there really is some nefarious 
activity in regards to the blocks in question. Please Mr.Cohen, stand up and 
demonstrate how you obtained so much valuable v4 space.

Richard Golodner

Infratection IT Services

On 9/18/19 4:52 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

In message <mailto:vi1pr1001mb1294743a032db4f595901579d6...@vi1pr1001mb1294.eurprd10.prod.outlook.com>,
 Elad Cohen <mailto:e...@netstyle.io> wrote:



Please see the following link:

https://afrinic.net/resource-certification

As you can see, a MyAFRINIC account is required.

Yes, route objects for legacy AFRINIC resources in their RIR operated IRRDB
as a fallback for RPKI can be created and they were created by us.




What Mr. Cohen continues to dance around is the inconvenient truth that
even if he had an AFRINIC account, this would neither help nor explain
his thefts of the several AFRINIC -and- APNIC region blocks that I have
already listed here.

RIPE Routing History reveals the truth, for anyone who wishes to consult
that historical data, and I also have plenty of saved traceroutes for
each of those APNIC blocks, as well as all of the others that Mr. Cohen
stole from the AFRINIC region.

Those were all helpfully routed, until quite recently, to Mr. Cohen, and
by Mr. Cohen's dear friends at FDCServers and Cogent.

Come now Mr. Cohen, please do tell us who you paid for rights to the
168.198.0.0/16 block, which belongs to the Australian government, and
which your pals at Cogent and FDCServers were routing to you until
quite recently.  Who did you pay and how much did you pay for your
"rights" to the City of Cape Town's 165.25.0.0/16 block?

It's OK.  No need to be shy.  Show us the your sales reciepts for those
blocks please!  We could all use a good laugh today.

Alternatively, if you can't or won't show us that, then at least have the
decency to admit that you're a liar, a fraud, and a con man, and that
until I caught you, you were stealing all of the IPv4 space that wasn't
nailed down in both the AFRINIC region and the APNIC region.

Did you seriously think that you could get away with all this and that
nobody would even notice?  If so, then you're even dumber that you look
in all of the online pictures of you I've seen.


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Mel Beckman]

I think it’s time to take this name-calling, libel-threatening tirade off of 
Nanog, gentlemen. I can’t see any further relevance in this discussion to 
Nanog’s mission of operational issues, and you all just burn CPU cycles the 
rest of us don’t want to give up. Have a nice day.

 -mel beckman

On Sep 19, 2019, at 2:34 AM, Elad Cohen 
mailto:e...@netstyle.io>> wrote:

Mr. Ronald Guilmette

Everything you did and you wrote in this forum until today, including 
mudslinging and slandering, including thieves and crooks, they are libel for 
all intents and purposes with everything it implies, and this without to 
display any proof.

We return and say, in our hands are all the agreements of the purchases that 
we've purchased properly with our best money.

It is hinted from your tongue-lashing, that you are connected clearly with 
Spamhaus and ARIN, that have an interest to receive the ranges, following the 
increase of value of the ranges in the free market and the lack of them.

All of this subject was transferred to our lawyers, due to the mudslinging and 
slandering and the nicknames you wrote thieves and crooks in this forum, a 
libel suit against you will be filed with a high amount, of course that all of 
the written proofs an agreements regarding the legal purchases that we've made 
will be added to the libel suit.

Copies:
Mr. Bennet Kelley

From: NANOG mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org>> on behalf 
of Ronald F. Guilmette mailto:r...@tristatelogic.com>>
Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 11:22 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org> 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Re: Elad Cohen

In message 
mailto:d6411136-73d4-9712-5303-2e364bb29...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>>,
Masataka Ohta 
mailto:mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>> 
wrote:

>Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> > So, if you are looking for a Crime here, i.e. one defined under law,
> > there isn't one.
>
>You don't know how broadly crime of fraud is defined by the current code.
>
>Just injecting false route information may not be a crime.
>
>However, doing so for financial gain maybe a crime of fraud.

I guess that there is something that either you, or perhaps I, are not
understanding here.

Did you mean to suggest that either Mr. Cohen or any of the friendly networks
that he has persuaded to announce routes for him (by paying them to do so)
are doing any of this just for their health?

Financial gain appears to me to be the obvious motivation for all of this.

>False registration for financial gain by deceiving a registrar
>is definitely a crime, regardless of what is registered.
>
>See the actual code:
>
>   https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2015C00507

Allow me to clarify.

In the case if the APNIC region blocks that I have called out, I have -no-
evidence to suggest that there has been any deception or untoward manipulation
of registry information whatsoever.

With respect to the AFRINIC region blocks I have called out, if you have a
relevant citation from the criminal code of the island nation of Mauritius,
I would be most appreciative if you would share that with me.  It may come
in handy at some point.


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen

[Elad Cohen]

Mr. Ronald Guilmette

Everything you did and you wrote in this forum until today, including 
mudslinging and slandering, including thieves and crooks, they are libel for 
all intents and purposes with everything it implies, and this without to 
display any proof.

We return and say, in our hands are all the agreements of the purchases that 
we've purchased properly with our best money.

It is hinted from your tongue-lashing, that you are connected clearly with 
Spamhaus and ARIN, that have an interest to receive the ranges, following the 
increase of value of the ranges in the free market and the lack of them.

All of this subject was transferred to our lawyers, due to the mudslinging and 
slandering and the nicknames you wrote thieves and crooks in this forum, a 
libel suit against you will be filed with a high amount, of course that all of 
the written proofs an agreements regarding the legal purchases that we've made 
will be added to the libel suit.

Copies:
Mr. Bennet Kelley

From: NANOG  on behalf of Ronald F. Guilmette 

Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2019 11:22 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: Re: Elad Cohen

In message ,
Masataka Ohta  wrote:

>Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> > So, if you are looking for a Crime here, i.e. one defined under law,
> > there isn't one.
>
>You don't know how broadly crime of fraud is defined by the current code.
>
>Just injecting false route information may not be a crime.
>
>However, doing so for financial gain maybe a crime of fraud.

I guess that there is something that either you, or perhaps I, are not
understanding here.

Did you mean to suggest that either Mr. Cohen or any of the friendly networks
that he has persuaded to announce routes for him (by paying them to do so)
are doing any of this just for their health?

Financial gain appears to me to be the obvious motivation for all of this.

>False registration for financial gain by deceiving a registrar
>is definitely a crime, regardless of what is registered.
>
>See the actual code:
>
>   https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2015C00507

Allow me to clarify.

In the case if the APNIC region blocks that I have called out, I have -no-
evidence to suggest that there has been any deception or untoward manipulation
of registry information whatsoever.

With respect to the AFRINIC region blocks I have called out, if you have a
relevant citation from the criminal code of the island nation of Mauritius,
I would be most appreciative if you would share that with me.  It may come
in handy at some point.


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[niels=nanog]

* r...@tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) [Thu 19 Sep 2019, 10:05 CEST]:
I never like to generalize to entire populations, and I will 
therefore refrain from suggesting any endemic or widespread defect 
in the Dutch national psyche, but I cannot help but note that, as 
pointed out in the MyBroadband.co.za news report, a gentleman named 
Maikel Uerlings, who is also Dutch, and who presently appears to be 
notably absent from the Netherlands, perhaps due to certain 
less-than-friendly legal entanglements, is also, it appears, 
intimately connected to Mr. Cohen and to his business, such as it 
is.  It would be entirely improper for me to say or even to suggest 
that the Dutch are any more inclined toward cybercrime, or toward 
looking the other way while it takes place, than anyone else.  I 
will instead only paraphrase William Shakespeare and say that there 
is something rotten in the Netherlands, and that whatever it is, it 
ain't doing their national reputation any good at all.


Couching your racism in some faux plausible deniability by using 
phrases such as "It would be entirely improper of me to" or "I will 
refrain from [making a certain racist suggestion]" and then immediately 
making that racist suggestion, doesn't make your remarks not racist.  
Nor can you hide behind the classics.


Racism has no place in this community and you would do well to refrain 
from posting any more such remarks.



-- Niels.

Re: Elad Cohen

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message ,
Masataka Ohta  wrote:

>Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> > So, if you are looking for a Crime here, i.e. one defined under law,
> > there isn't one.
>
>You don't know how broadly crime of fraud is defined by the current code.
>
>Just injecting false route information may not be a crime.
>
>However, doing so for financial gain maybe a crime of fraud.

I guess that there is something that either you, or perhaps I, are not
understanding here.

Did you mean to suggest that either Mr. Cohen or any of the friendly networks
that he has persuaded to announce routes for him (by paying them to do so)
are doing any of this just for their health?

Financial gain appears to me to be the obvious motivation for all of this.

>False registration for financial gain by deceiving a registrar
>is definitely a crime, regardless of what is registered.
>
>See the actual code:
>
>   https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2015C00507

Allow me to clarify.

In the case if the APNIC region blocks that I have called out, I have -no-
evidence to suggest that there has been any deception or untoward manipulation
of registry information whatsoever.

With respect to the AFRINIC region blocks I have called out, if you have a
relevant citation from the criminal code of the island nation of Mauritius,
I would be most appreciative if you would share that with me.  It may come
in handy at some point.


Regards,
rfg

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message 
Christopher Morrow  wrote:

>"who cares about the sale?"

My apologies.  I see that I have failed to be adequately clear.

There was no "sale".  There was only theft, and then stolen goods
being passed from hand to hand to hand, ultimately ending up in the
hands of Mr. Cohen, who has acted and who is still acting, even as
we speak, as the penultimate monitizer of these purloined resources,
with the ongoing and helpful endorsement, I should note, of the Merit
RADB data base:

https://pastebin.com/raw/115RifX3
https://pastebin.com/raw/r9SRMJJk

Please note in particular, in that first file, Mr. Cohen's route object
for the entire 196.16.0.0/14 block... a block which AFRINIC historical
WHOIS records show clearly was and is the rightful property of a thing
called "Infoplan", which was the South African national government's
captive IT services arm until the passage of the "SITA Act" (1998) in
South Africa, by whose express and explict terms what used to be
"Infoplan" was subsumed and taken over, lock, stock and barrel, by the
South African government's newly formed replacement captive IT services
provider, The State Information and Technology Agency (SITA):

https://pastebin.com/raw/cXLy6QYf

But apparently, by some miracle of persuasiveness, in addition to making
the Right Friends inside that Australian national government AND inside
the administration of the City of Cape Town... at least briefly...  Mr.
Cohen also also deftly persuaded the national government of South Africa
that they really didn't need that $4 million dollar (USD) IPv4 asset after
all (i.e. the 196.16.0.0/14 block) and that they should sell it to him for
an as yet undisclosed price.

>If the outcome of 'someone' controlling IP space is that there is
>abusive activity coming from that space...

Nobody knows what the hell is really going on with that space or what
Mr. Cohen's customers need quite so much IPv4 space for... an amount
that lots of folks in the ARIN region would kill for.

I tried to make some polite inquiries with one of Mr. Cohen's apparent
better and more noteworthy customers, and I am still awaiting some
reply, adequate or otherwise, from that company.  In the meantime,
Mr. Cohen's English language web site became notably scrubbed of the
glowing customer testimonials with which it had been previously adorned,
shortly before I started asking questions.

Nothing at all suspicious about that, now is there?

It would appear that at least one of the companies that are Mr. Cohen's
best customers, and that had previously given Mr. Cohen's company glowing
testimonials no longer wish to have their company names associated with
him or his company, at least not in public.

Now why do you suppose that might be?  And what are THEY doing with the
large and illicitly snatched IPv4 blocks that he has leased to them?

In due course, I will have more to say about Mr. Cohen's customers and
what I believe them to be up to, based on the evidence.

>If the 'rightful owners' of the space need/want it back there's clear
>redress for them via their RIR and the various networks which are /
>were offering transit to these prefixes.

No, actually, there isn't, and that's the point.

Firstly, the RIRs are not the Internet Police, and by and large they
are adamantly unwilling (and allegedly even unable) to interject even
so much as their views or firmly held beliefs into the global BGP system
of routing.  In fact, the overwhelming majority of them are so throughly
cowed, both by their memberships and their respective legal teams, that
they dare not even speak the truth of whether it is night or day for fear
of such public pronouncements being the cause of subsequent litigation.

With regards to transit providers, Mr. Cohen and his ill-gotten resorces
have now, at long last,  been 100% kicked off of Cogent, indicating that
even they, at least, find it no longer plausibly deniable that most or all
of Mr. Cohen's allegedly purchased IPv4 space just simply doesn't belong
to him.  It only took them about 15 days of fiddling to finally come
around to this inescapable conclusion, but better late than never.

With regards to to the various relevant transit providers for the small
group of commonly-owned Dutch networks to which Mr. Cohen has, of late,
been migrating his booty, I have already spent more than a week, politely
browbeating all of these transit providers, as well as an official at
AMS-IX, and I have tried my best to acquaint them all with the plain
facts of this case.

The net effect of all this effort on my part has been that AMS-IX has
shrugged and told me that there is simply nothing they can do, and the
transit providers have politely informed me that they are all "still
investigating".

Meanwhile, Mr. Cohen continues to laugh all the way to the bank, and
continues to enjoy much connectivity, centered primarily in Amsterdam,
and all of it apparently immune to anything resembling "peer pressure".

Th net effects of my 

Any Australian? (was Re: Elad Cohen)

[Masataka Ohta]

Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


With respect to the Australian government's knowledge or lack thereof,
I really have no idea.  If you want to know what they know, or do not
know, I encourage you to ask them yourself.  It appears that this will
be rather easier for you to do, than for me to do, since you are in their
same general time zone, and I am not, and thus you have a better shot
at reaching them on the phone, during their working hours, than I do.


As weekly routing table report is still coming from APNIC/potaroo,
isn't Geoff Huston or someone around him here?

Masataka Ohta

Re: Elad Cohen

[Masataka Ohta]

Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> So, if you are looking for a Crime here, i.e. one defined under law,
> there isn't one.

You don't know how broadly crime of fraud is defined by
the current code.

Just injecting false route information may not be a
crime.

However, doing so for financial gain maybe a crime of fraud.

False registration for financial gain by deceiving a registrar
is definitely a crime, regardless of what is registered.

See the actual code:

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2015C00507
134.2  Obtaining a financial advantage by deception
 (1)  A person is guilty of an offence if
 (a)  the person, by a deception, dishonestly obtains
 a financial advantage from another person; and
135.1  General dishonesty
 (1)  A person is guilty of an offence if:
 (a)  the person does anything with the intention of
 dishonestly obtaining a gain from another person; and
 (3)  A person is guilty of an offence if:
 (a)  the person conspires with another person with the
intention of dishonestly causing a loss to a third person; and
 (5)  A person is guilty of an offence if:
 (a)  the person conspires with another person to dishonestly
 cause a loss, or to dishonestly cause a risk of loss, to a
 third person; and
 (b)  the first‑mentioned person knows or believes that the
 loss will occur or that there is a substantial risk of the
 loss occurring; and

Australian code on fraud is very similar to that of Japan.

Masataka Ohta

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Christopher Morrow]

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 11:19 PM Ben Cannon  wrote:

> With the difficulty of getting IPs off SPAM RBLs being what they are, I’m
> not sure I like the bone-chilling idea of accepting null-routing entire
> ranges as standard practice.
>

I didn't say spam-rbl.


>
> Same reasons, no central repository, no easy/quick/objective/cheap way to
> remove an illegitimate entry - and then the real problem, there’s just 6
> billion of them now and
> they’re all over the place and you’re listed in one of them probably no
> matter who you are.
>
> -Ben.
>
> -Ben Cannon
> CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC
> b...@6by7.net
>
>
>
> On Sep 18, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Christopher Morrow 
> wrote:
>
> I tried to ask this earlier, I think, but...
>
> "who cares about the sale?"
>
> I ask this because I think getting wrapped around that axle is the
> wrong place to spend resources.
> If the outcome of 'someone' controlling IP space is that there is
> abusive activity coming from that space and either no actions are
> taken to correct that, OR the problem is endemic and there is no
> change over time, then the action the community should take is not
> accepting routes to these prefixes. Once everyone (or enough
> everyones) stop accepting packets/paths the address space isn't
> important anymore.
>
> If the 'rightful owners' of the space need/want it back there's clear
> redress for them via their RIR and the various networks which are /
> were offering transit to these prefixes.
>
> -chris
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:02 PM Job Snijders  wrote:
>
>
> It would be good to see some receipts, offered by the selling party.
>
>
>

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Ben Cannon]

With the difficulty of getting IPs off SPAM RBLs being what they are, I’m not 
sure I like the bone-chilling idea of accepting null-routing entire ranges as 
standard practice.

Same reasons, no central repository, no easy/quick/objective/cheap way to 
remove an illegitimate entry - and then the real problem, there’s just 6 
billion of them now and 
they’re all over the place and you’re listed in one of them probably no matter 
who you are.

-Ben.

-Ben Cannon
CEO 6x7 Networks & 6x7 Telecom, LLC 
b...@6by7.net 




> On Sep 18, 2019, at 6:57 PM, Christopher Morrow  
> wrote:
> 
> I tried to ask this earlier, I think, but...
> 
> "who cares about the sale?"
> 
> I ask this because I think getting wrapped around that axle is the
> wrong place to spend resources.
> If the outcome of 'someone' controlling IP space is that there is
> abusive activity coming from that space and either no actions are
> taken to correct that, OR the problem is endemic and there is no
> change over time, then the action the community should take is not
> accepting routes to these prefixes. Once everyone (or enough
> everyones) stop accepting packets/paths the address space isn't
> important anymore.
> 
> If the 'rightful owners' of the space need/want it back there's clear
> redress for them via their RIR and the various networks which are /
> were offering transit to these prefixes.
> 
> -chris
> 
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:02 PM Job Snijders  wrote:
>> 
>> It would be good to see some receipts, offered by the selling party.

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Christopher Morrow]

I tried to ask this earlier, I think, but...

"who cares about the sale?"

I ask this because I think getting wrapped around that axle is the
wrong place to spend resources.
If the outcome of 'someone' controlling IP space is that there is
abusive activity coming from that space and either no actions are
taken to correct that, OR the problem is endemic and there is no
change over time, then the action the community should take is not
accepting routes to these prefixes. Once everyone (or enough
everyones) stop accepting packets/paths the address space isn't
important anymore.

If the 'rightful owners' of the space need/want it back there's clear
redress for them via their RIR and the various networks which are /
were offering transit to these prefixes.

-chris

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:02 PM Job Snijders  wrote:
>
> It would be good to see some receipts, offered by the selling party.

Re: Elad Cohen

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message ,
Masataka Ohta  wrote:

>Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
>> It is a well known fundamental tenet of logical reasoning and argument
>> that it is not possible for -anyone- to prove a negative, which is what
>> you've just asked me to do.
>
>So, Australian government does not think it is a victim of a
>crime. Right?

That's a two part question.  I'll answer each part.

Regarding "crime", there are crimes and there are Crimes.

It wasn't a Crime, until well after 2008, to sell stupid and naive
investors so-called "mortgage backed securities" which turned out
to be worthless, based on bogus financial projections.  The law had
not yet caught up to innovation in the financial sector.  But some
of the people who were selling this garbage to unsuspecting rubes
back in 2008 and earlier knew full well, in their heart of hearts,
that they were screwing people.  Mulitple email exchanges that came to
light after that showed these sellers -joking- about how they were
screwing people.  The same thing happened also in the case of Enron,
whose traders joked in email exchanges about how they were screwing
my own home state of California.

At present, the law has likewise not caught up to this "innovation"
called the Internet.  It has had 20+ years to do that, but it still
hasn't, in no small part because legislators the world over understand
the Internet even less than they now understand mortgage backed securities.

So, if you are looking for a Crime here, i.e. one defined under law,
there isn't one.  But the concepts of stealing and unfairness are even
older that the world's so-called oldest profession, and they are so
fundamental and apparent that one does not even need to be a "highly
evolved" human in order to grasp these moral and ethical principals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

In short, stealing is stealing.  If I steal a watch out of the pocket of
a dead man, it is still stealing, even if there is no specific legislation
of the subject, and even if the dead man unhelpfully declines to file a
police report on the incident.

With respect to the Australian government's knowledge or lack thereof,
I really have no idea.  If you want to know what they know, or do not
know, I encourage you to ask them yourself.  It appears that this will
be rather easier for you to do, than for me to do, since you are in their
same general time zone, and I am not, and thus you have a better shot
at reaching them on the phone, during their working hours, than I do.

The relevant WHOIS contact info is reproduced below, for your convenience.


Regards,
rfg

=
inetnum:168.198.0.0 - 168.198.255.255
netname:DOFD
descr:  DOFD Department of Finance and Deregulation
descr:  Australian Government
country:AU
admin-c:FIAR1-AP
tech-c: FIAR1-AP
status: ALLOCATED PORTABLE
mnt-by: APNIC-HM
mnt-lower:  MAINT-AU-DOFD
mnt-routes: MAINT-AU-DOFD
mnt-irt:IRT-DOFD-AU
last-modified:  2013-07-24T04:25:39Z
source: APNIC

irt:IRT-DOFD-AU
address:John Gorton Building, King Edward Terrace, Parkes ACT 2600
e-mail: ipaddressing(at)finance.gov.au
abuse-mailbox:  ipaddressing(at)finance.gov.au
admin-c:FIAR1-AP
tech-c: FIAR1-AP
auth:   # Filtered
mnt-by: MAINT-AU-DOFD
last-modified:  2013-07-23T04:50:09Z
source: APNIC

role:   Finance Internet Address Registry - CIOD
address:John Gorton Building, King Edward Terrace, Parkes ACT 2600
country:AU
phone:  + 61 2 6215 
e-mail: ipaddressing(at)finance.gov.au
admin-c:FIAR1-AP
tech-c: FIAR1-AP
nic-hdl:FIAR1-AP
mnt-by: MAINT-AU-DOFD
last-modified:  2013-07-23T04:27:45Z
source: APNIC

Re: Elad Cohen

[Masataka Ohta]

Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


It is a well known fundamental tenet of logical reasoning and argument
that it is not possible for -anyone- to prove a negative, which is what
you've just asked me to do.


So, Australian government does not think it is a victim of a
crime. Right?


I certainly cannot prove,


You don't have to prove. All you have to do is to find an entity
which thinks it is a victim of a crime and let the entity accuse.


P.S.  For those who may still harbor any doubts about Mr. Cohen's claims,
I encourage you all to speak with a certain Mr. Alister van Tonder,
(Alister.vanTonder (at) capetown.gov.za - phone: +27-21-400-9080),


OK. You have found one. Anyone else?

Masataka Ohta

Elad Cohen, show us!

[Richard]

Mr. Guilmette, my curiosity has now been increased as I notice Cogent is
no longer supplying routing for the /16's you have spoken of. It
certainly would be nice to see Mr. Cohen demonstrate proof of legitimate
ownership. I have never seen Cogent behave in this manner unless there
really is some nefarious activity in regards to the blocks in question.
Please Mr.Cohen, stand up and demonstrate how you obtained so much
valuable v4 space.

Richard Golodner

Infratection IT Services

On 9/18/19 4:52 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> In message 
>  ROD.OUTLOOK.COM>, Elad Cohen  wrote:
>
>> Please see the following link:
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/resource-certification
>>
>> As you can see, a MyAFRINIC account is required.
>>
>> Yes, route objects for legacy AFRINIC resources in their RIR operated IRRDB
>> as a fallback for RPKI can be created and they were created by us.
>
> What Mr. Cohen continues to dance around is the inconvenient truth that
> even if he had an AFRINIC account, this would neither help nor explain
> his thefts of the several AFRINIC -and- APNIC region blocks that I have
> already listed here.
>
> RIPE Routing History reveals the truth, for anyone who wishes to consult
> that historical data, and I also have plenty of saved traceroutes for
> each of those APNIC blocks, as well as all of the others that Mr. Cohen
> stole from the AFRINIC region.
>
> Those were all helpfully routed, until quite recently, to Mr. Cohen, and
> by Mr. Cohen's dear friends at FDCServers and Cogent.
>
> Come now Mr. Cohen, please do tell us who you paid for rights to the
> 168.198.0.0/16 block, which belongs to the Australian government, and
> which your pals at Cogent and FDCServers were routing to you until
> quite recently.  Who did you pay and how much did you pay for your
> "rights" to the City of Cape Town's 165.25.0.0/16 block?
>
> It's OK.  No need to be shy.  Show us the your sales reciepts for those
> blocks please!  We could all use a good laugh today.
>
> Alternatively, if you can't or won't show us that, then at least have the
> decency to admit that you're a liar, a fraud, and a con man, and that
> until I caught you, you were stealing all of the IPv4 space that wasn't
> nailed down in both the AFRINIC region and the APNIC region.
>
> Did you seriously think that you could get away with all this and that
> nobody would even notice?  If so, then you're even dumber that you look
> in all of the online pictures of you I've seen.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>

Re: Elad Cohen

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message <15744848-5638-ad01-2c9c-a89825f9d...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp>,
Masataka Ohta  wrote:

>Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
>> Come now Mr. Cohen, please do tell us who you paid for rights to the
>> 168.198.0.0/16 block, which belongs to the Australian government,
>
>If you think the Australian government haven't transfer its IP address
>to Mr. Cohen, all you should do is let the Australian government
>accuse Mr. Cohen.

It is a well known fundamental tenet of logical reasoning and argument
that it is not possible for -anyone- to prove a negative, which is what
you've just asked me to do.

I certainly cannot prove, to any degree of certainty, that the Australian
national government, in its infinite wisdom, didn't send one of its stealthy
representatives to meet Mr. Cohen in some dark back allley, on some dark
night, somewhere in Canberra, and that this mysterious representaive did
not meet Mr. Cohen and then sell him the government's rights in, and titles
to the 168.198.0.0/16 block.  If that had happened, then I wouldn't know
about it.  None of us would.  (And stranger things quite certainly -have-
happened when it comes to government corruption.) All I can do is make it
quite plain that I believe that this theory of events is somewhere beyond
implausible.

In any event, it is not for me to prove the negative in this case.  Rather,
it is incumbant upon Mr. Cohen to prove his implicit -and- explicit
affirmative assertion that he has or had some rights (i.e. -any- rights)
to the 168.198.0.0/16 block or to any of the numerous other nice juicy and
valuable IPv4 blocks, all of size /16 or greater, that he, with the help
of his friends, appears to have been using of late.

With regards to any of these numerous valuable IPv4 blocks, both legacy
and otherwise, Mr. Cohen offers us not a single shread of proof that he
has now, or ever had, any rights at all to any of these blocks whatsoever,
insisting instead that we all just take his word on faith.

Is this the behaviour of an honest man, attempting, reasonably, to defend
his reputation and his good name?  I think not.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Mr. Cohen is clearly hiding something.
And not just one thing, but many things.

With respect to the Australian government, none of us needs to wait for it
to wake from its slumber in order to know precisely what happened here.

If I am on the street, near a school or a University, and if I see a man
back a large truck up to a bicycle rack and then see the man get out and
use a large set of bolt cutters to cut the locks on bicycle after bicycle,
loading them one by one into the truck, then I, for one, do not need to
await the arrival of the true owners of said bicycles in order to know
that something is seriously amiss -or- to take action to stop what is going
on.  That may be your approach to such situations, but it is not mine.

The difference is what some people might call "civilization" and without
it we are all doomed.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  For those who may still harbor any doubts about Mr. Cohen's claims,
I encourage you all to speak with a certain Mr. Alister van Tonder,
(Alister.vanTonder (at) capetown.gov.za - phone: +27-21-400-9080), a
network engineer employed by the City of Cape Town, who I'm sure will
be only to happy to describe to you, as he did to me, the efforts that
he and his collegues were forced to expend in order to just simply take
back the City's rightful property, the 165.25.0.0/16 block, from the
clutches of Mr. Cohen and his allies at FDCServers and Cogent.

Re: Elad Cohen

[Masataka Ohta]

Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:


Come now Mr. Cohen, please do tell us who you paid for rights to the
168.198.0.0/16 block, which belongs to the Australian government,


If you think the Australian government haven't transfer its IP address
to Mr. Cohen, all you should do is let the Australian government
accuse Mr. Cohen.

According to:


https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/which-countries-have-extradition-treaties-with-australia/
There are a number of countries that have bilateral extradition
arrangements with Australia. These are:
Israel

the accusation can be effective to people living in Israel.

Masataka Ohta

Re: Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Job Snijders]

It would be good to see some receipts, offered by the selling party.

Elad Cohen (was: Re: Cogent sales reps who actually respond)

[Ronald F. Guilmette]

In message , Elad Cohen  wrote:

>Please see the following link:
>
>https://afrinic.net/resource-certification
>
>As you can see, a MyAFRINIC account is required.
>
>Yes, route objects for legacy AFRINIC resources in their RIR operated IRRDB
> as a fallback for RPKI can be created and they were created by us.


What Mr. Cohen continues to dance around is the inconvenient truth that
even if he had an AFRINIC account, this would neither help nor explain
his thefts of the several AFRINIC -and- APNIC region blocks that I have
already listed here.

RIPE Routing History reveals the truth, for anyone who wishes to consult
that historical data, and I also have plenty of saved traceroutes for
each of those APNIC blocks, as well as all of the others that Mr. Cohen
stole from the AFRINIC region.

Those were all helpfully routed, until quite recently, to Mr. Cohen, and
by Mr. Cohen's dear friends at FDCServers and Cogent.

Come now Mr. Cohen, please do tell us who you paid for rights to the
168.198.0.0/16 block, which belongs to the Australian government, and
which your pals at Cogent and FDCServers were routing to you until
quite recently.  Who did you pay and how much did you pay for your
"rights" to the City of Cape Town's 165.25.0.0/16 block?

It's OK.  No need to be shy.  Show us the your sales reciepts for those
blocks please!  We could all use a good laugh today.

Alternatively, if you can't or won't show us that, then at least have the
decency to admit that you're a liar, a fraud, and a con man, and that
until I caught you, you were stealing all of the IPv4 space that wasn't
nailed down in both the AFRINIC region and the APNIC region.

Did you seriously think that you could get away with all this and that
nobody would even notice?  If so, then you're even dumber that you look
in all of the online pictures of you I've seen.


Regards,
rfg