RE: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi, I use torch from hardware shop, for soldering. It was the strongest one, gas-air.. More later on site.. Dalibor Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz Sent from my HTC -Original Message- From: jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 0:11 To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
A wonderful video! Jens Hey Guys- You should check out this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y At the 20min 30sec mark, some answers will be revealed- -Dylan On Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:11:48 PM UTC-7, Jens Boos wrote: Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farnı dali...@farny.cz mailto:dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com mailto:jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/8DXmsRIrEfMJ. To post
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi, interesting, the little blue something ;-) burner looked more like a glass blowing burner to me. Jens Hi, I use torch from hardware shop, for soldering. It was the strongest one, gas-air.. More later on site.. Dalibor Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz Sent from my HTC From: jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 0:11 To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farnı dali...@farny.cz mailto:dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com mailto:jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
By the way, the seal cracked today. Want to know why? Even though there were no tensions in the glass, I exerted a little force on the smaller tube, and it just came off, without cracking or anything. Very strange, will post a picture later. I can only assume the glass was not hot enough so it did not really fuse together. Okay, I agree. I might need a propane-oxygen torch. Jens Hi, interesting, the little blue something ;-) burner looked more like a glass blowing burner to me. Jens Hi, I use torch from hardware shop, for soldering. It was the strongest one, gas-air.. More later on site.. Dalibor Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz Sent from my HTC From: jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 0:11 To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farnı dali...@farny.cz mailto:dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com mailto:jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed
RE: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi, the torch on the photo You mean, is glass blowing one. But I dont have an oxy bottle yet, so I use the hardware torch I wrote about.. Dalibor Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz Sent from my HTC -Original Message- From: jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 11:15 To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi, interesting, the little blue something ;-) burner looked more like a glass blowing burner to me. Jens Hi, I use torch from hardware shop, for soldering. It was the strongest one, gas-air.. More later on site.. Dalibor Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz Sent from my HTC From: jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de Sent: Monday, June 18, 2012 0:11 To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi John, first: I am very sorry about your loss. Especially because you put so much work into your equipment. But never give up. The moment we give in to people like this we are no longer ourselves. That's pretty good. I know some neon people who couldn't do a neck-down that nicely. The only thing I'd do differently is to flare the small tubing a bit before fusing the two so as to locate the splice is a larger diameter area where it is stronger. With some practice and some more heat you can stick it on using your method, then move the heat to the smaller tubing and blow it out a little. Thanks :-) I have some zinc-carbon batteries here (AAA size, quite small) that I will cut open to extract some nice carbon rods that I can use for forming the glass. I will use one of these rods for the purpose you described: Flaring the small diameter tubing before sealing it on. As I slowly rebuild my shop, my first fire is going to be a bench burner. Relatively expensive but I can do everything except large bends with it. This will be my first investment after the needle valve. See the model I am interested here: http://www.arnold-gruppe.de/nc/glas-quarzglas/brenner/tischbrenner/productdetail/151167.html The only thing you'd need a ribbon burner for would be blowing the tubing to a larger diameter over a significant length. That is why I asked. I will start purchasing only small diameter tubing (5mm or 8mm) because you can buy these in small quantities. For the larger diameters I will use test tubes (cutting off both sides that I don't need) because for larger diameters it is very hard to get soda lime glass in small quantities. If I were serious about making true Nixie tubes, I'd go through alibaba.com and find me a Chinese machine shop to make a set of dies to make tube bases like they used to. They work amazingly cheap. The one that extrudes our induction heater cases prices CNC machine work to the cases at $1 an hour. No, I didn't miss any zeros. How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. Obviously scrappers. All my lovingly hand crafted tools are now melted down and made into an I-beam or something. I am very sorry to hear that. But it would be a shame if it was for people like this to stop us from making the neon glow, wouldn't it? Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
On 06/17/2012 06:07 AM, jb-electronics wrote: Thanks :-) I have some zinc-carbon batteries here (AAA size, quite small) that I will cut open to extract some nice carbon rods that I can use for forming the glass. I will use one of these rods for the purpose you described: Flaring the small diameter tubing before sealing it on. You can use stainless steel welding rod for that purpose too. Just make sure it doesn't get hot enough for the glass to start sticking. This will be my first investment after the needle valve. See the model I am interested here: http://www.arnold-gruppe.de/nc/glas-quarzglas/brenner/tischbrenner/productdetail/151167.html That looks like some pretty nice kit. If I were serious about making true Nixie tubes, I'd go through alibaba.com and find me a Chinese machine shop to make a set of dies to make tube bases like they used to. They work amazingly cheap. The one that extrudes our induction heater cases prices CNC machine work to the cases at $1 an hour. No, I didn't miss any zeros. How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. If I were given the assignment today to make a machine to make tube bases, this is how I'd proceed. First I'd find an old tube with the same base. I'd cut it open and grind down the base to just where the seal joint was made. That would result in just the base molding. Next I'd find a shop with a 3D coordinate digitizer and have the base digitized. In the past I've usually been able to find one at a nearby university. If not, something that simple probably wouldn't cost over $75 dollars to have done commercially. I'd call that up in Solid Works or whatever 3D CAD program I had -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi, If I were given the assignment today to make a machine to make tube bases, this is how I'd proceed. First I'd find an old tube with the same base. I'd cut it open and grind down the base to just where the seal joint was made. That would result in just the base molding. that is one problem, once you have the molding you need to have it CNC'd out of carbon. But I actually meant the mechanical process of actually making such a base, this is far from trivial. Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
I really like the update on your page! Yove made quite some progress :) On Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:53:26 PM UTC+1, Dalibor wrote: Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/audInw3BesQJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Thanks! ;-) I would like to provide more text on the site, but it takes a lot of time to write something right.. So I try to make more photos ;-) http://dalibor.farny.cz/custom-stems-first-attempt/ Dalibor 2012/6/17 kay486 luckyl...@gmail.com I really like the update on your page! Yove made quite some progress :) On Sunday, June 17, 2012 8:53:26 PM UTC+1, Dalibor wrote: Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscribe@** googlegroups.com neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GBhttp://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB . -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/audInw3BesQJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farnı dali...@farny.cz mailto:dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com mailto:jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hey Guys- You should check out this- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDvF89Bh27Y At the 20min 30sec mark, some answers will be revealed- -Dylan On Sunday, June 17, 2012 3:11:48 PM UTC-7, Jens Boos wrote: Hi, good work on the small glow lamps! What kind of burner do you use? Jens Nice information about making stems are in the Roth's book noticed recently here.. Vacuum sealing techniques, for those interested in this book, let me know outside, I will post link.. I have already got a small test mold made from graphite, 13-pin.. My original intention was to arrange some kind of furnace in microwave oven and melt the glass directly in the mold with dumet wires inside.. But no luck yet, I am able to heat a piece of the carbide to 1000C, but the power is to small to heat all the mold with glass. Another thing is, that at this temperature, the graphite reacts with oxygen producing CO2 and degrades.. I think 10 cycles is maximum for one mold. The furnace with controlled atmosphere (nitrogen, argon, CO2 ..) would be the best.. I am going to ask my friend to test that process in their lab, he has a special tubular furnace able to go above 2000C ;-) I am preparing some short blogpost about my fail ;-) I will publish it tonight. Except that, I had also some small success, sealed argon tubes.. that post is already done: http://dalibor.farny.cz Dalibor 2012/6/17 Dalibor Farný dali...@farny.cz Hi John, are You sure that only gravity is enough for the glass to flow to the mold? At what temperatures? I tried 800C and no luck.. Dalibor 2012/6/17 John Rehwinkel jreh...@mac.com How exactly would you proceed making - say - 13 pin tube bases? You need a lot of temperature for that and precisely formed tools. So far this is nothing I can see myself doing in the near future. I know a person who makes his own (borosilicate glass) sockets, I might be able to adopt the principle some day. The tool part isn't too tough, just carve it out of graphite with pin recesses. CNC machining would be the way I'd go, but back in the day it was done by reading scales on handwheels, and obviously it could still be done that way. Once you have your graphite mold/pin holder, get some nice 3-part pins and lead glass tubing of an appropriate diameter. Lead glass is the way to go here - it liquifies enough to gravity flow into molds like this. Slice off rings that have sufficient glass to make your bases, drop pins into your mold, put the glass ring around them, and melt the whole shebang. For extra niceness, you can have an upper mold half that forms little mounds of glass over the pins themselves and flattens the rest of the base into a disc. Let it cool, and violà! The first one will be a real bear, as you have to make the molds determine the amount of glass, temperature to use, etc. But once you have the molds made and the procedure down, you can knock out additional bases fairly easily. - John -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- Dalibor Farny http://dalibor.farny.cz -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/neonixie-l/-/8DXmsRIrEfMJ. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
[neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi folks, today I have tried sealing a small tube (8mm OD) on a 30mm test tube, both soda lime glass. As burners I used a classic hardware store propane soldering torch as well as a special kind of lighter (you know, the one junkies use) which produces a very clear, hot and focused flame as opposed to the soldering torch. And what can I say? It worked! The seal does not look terribly good, but it was my first try with this new lighter method, and I did not even try very hard. I don't even have a glass lathe, so I did all the work with my hands. Will document it for my website. I did not temper it down very thoroughly, only 5 minutes in a nearly yellow flame. So I hope it won't crack in the next hours. Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Congrats! Looking forward to seeing the pics! From: jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:36 AM Subject: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi folks, today I have tried sealing a small tube (8mm OD) on a 30mm test tube, both soda lime glass. As burners I used a classic hardware store propane soldering torch as well as a special kind of lighter (you know, the one junkies use) which produces a very clear, hot and focused flame as opposed to the soldering torch. And what can I say? It worked! The seal does not look terribly good, but it was my first try with this new lighter method, and I did not even try very hard. I don't even have a glass lathe, so I did all the work with my hands. Will document it for my website. I did not temper it down very thoroughly, only 5 minutes in a nearly yellow flame. So I hope it won't crack in the next hours. Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi, oh it is really nothing special, just a small tube sitting on a larger one. Will take a picture later. So far my observations with the polarisation filter have not revealed terrible tensions. It cracked once during glasswork because I used a flame that was too hot (the lighter) too soon, but I managed to heal the crack with the larger propane soldering torch. Jens Congrats! Looking forward to seeing the pics! *From:* jb-electronics webmas...@jb-electronics.de *To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Saturday, June 16, 2012 7:36 AM *Subject:* [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success Hi folks, today I have tried sealing a small tube (8mm OD) on a 30mm test tube, both soda lime glass. As burners I used a classic hardware store propane soldering torch as well as a special kind of lighter (you know, the one junkies use) which produces a very clear, hot and focused flame as opposed to the soldering torch. And what can I say? It worked! The seal does not look terribly good, but it was my first try with this new lighter method, and I did not even try very hard. I don't even have a glass lathe, so I did all the work with my hands. Will document it for my website. I did not temper it down very thoroughly, only 5 minutes in a nearly yellow flame. So I hope it won't crack in the next hours. Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
On 06/16/2012 08:36 AM, jb-electronics wrote: Hi folks, today I have tried sealing a small tube (8mm OD) on a 30mm test tube, both soda lime glass. As burners I used a classic hardware store propane soldering torch as well as a special kind of lighter (you know, the one junkies use) which produces a very clear, hot and focused flame as opposed to the soldering torch. Jens, If I may I'd like to again strongly encourage you not to go down this path. You're teaching yourself horrible techniques using completely wrong equipment. I know. I went down the same path before finally paying to have a neon bender teach me the right way and to show me the correct equipment. The hardware store propane torch tip is fine - in an array of 4 to 6 on each side. Then you have a cross-fire. The intersection of the flames is a vertical wall of fire that is perfect for splicing, shrinking, enlarging and bending small tubing. Even better is the cannon burner. See here, second image down http://www.neon-john.com/Neon/Shop_equip/Shop_equip.htm Two of those facing each other make a perfect vertical wall of flame that is capable of working even 25mm tubing. I have little idea where to source these burners in Europe but I'd give Eurocomm a shot first. Another thing that I'd like to address is the glass lathe. You don't need one and starting out, a lathe is worse than nothing. It leads to horrible techniques unless one is instructed in the Ways of the Glass. Our friend, the Glassslinger, while I admire his effort especially in the video department, is using horrible techniques. Nothing I've seen so far could not be done quicker and usually neater by hand. A glass tube splice should be almost invisible with only a little ripple in the wall thickness to show where the splice has occurred. Done correctly, a splice may be subsequently reheated and bend as if it was not there. Next, I urge you to get some neon tubing. Leaded glass if you can still -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi John, thanks for your advice! However, you use a little too much of the strong kind of words if you ask me: You're teaching yourself horrible techniques using completely wrong equipment. The first rule in glass blowing is: If it works, it works. I am still on the way of figuring this out. I know. I went down the same path before finally paying to have a neon bender teach me the right way and to show me the correct equipment. The thing is I neither have the money for professional equipment nor the skills to build it all by myself. This is why I am trying to figure out how far I can get with ordinary equipment. Have you seen any of Aleksander Zawadas videos? He does all of his glasswork with a propane torch, and he is the pioneer in Nixie tube making. The hardware store propane torch tip is fine - in an array of 4 to 6 on each side. Then you have a cross-fire. The intersection of the flames is a vertical wall of fire that is perfect for splicing, shrinking, enlarging and bending small tubing. Even better is the cannon burner. See here, second image down http://www.neon-john.com/Neon/Shop_equip/Shop_equip.htm Two of those facing each other make a perfect vertical wall of flame that is capable of working even 25mm tubing. I have little idea where to source these burners in Europe but I'd give Eurocomm a shot first. I can agree with this part: My propane torch is not strong enough to heat anything above 25mm, so this is where I cannot go with my technique. However, a professional burner costs way more than $400, and currently I am saving up for a needle valve, so this is sadly no option in the near future. It is however quite possible to do a perfect join of two glass tubes with just one flame (of a glass blowing burner, that is, though). I saw it myself a couple of months ago live in a small scientific tube factory. This person had 20 years of experience. Another thing that I'd like to address is the glass lathe. You don't need one and starting out, a lathe is worse than nothing. It leads to horrible techniques unless one is instructed in the Ways of the Glass. Again, these strong words ;-) It is true, one tends to become a little careless with glass if using a lathe, but hey, if it works it works. I am not trying to win any prizes here. Our friend, the Glassslinger, while I admire his effort especially in the video department, is using horrible techniques. Nothing I've seen so far could not be done quicker and usually neater by hand. Again, obviously it works fine. Not even fine, it is amazing. He is building vacuum tubes with these horrible techniques, so even if a professional does not like them, they seem to work just fine, don't they? A glass tube splice should be almost invisible with only a little ripple in the wall thickness to show where the splice has occurred. Done correctly, a splice may be subsequently reheated and bend as if it was not there. Yes, I have seen that in the scientific tube factory as well. It takes a lot of experience with glass and its behaviour to get it right. I wish Yoda was here to teach me the ways of the glass. Next, I urge you to get some neon tubing. Leaded glass if you can still I use soda lime glass, it is basically the same thing as lead glass, at least regarding the working temperatures and cooling-off behaviour. What's the advantage of neon tubing? I feel I should add something: While I in general appreciate every support and helping answer I can get, it is very hard not to get frustrated. 9 out of 10 people I ask about details of tube making and so on tell me you are doing it completely the wrong way, and if I tried to make it right of all of these I could not start for another couple of years. It is a slow process that I am making, but I am trying more every time. My first goal is to build a simple two-terminal glow lamp, and this is very well possible with the unprofessional equipment I have. I guess this is also why I am so interested in this field. See how far you can get even if odds are 90% against you. I am not saying I have any right answer here on my side, I am merely trying to figure out what works and what doesn't work. I hope you do not feel that I don't appreciate your comment, because I do, but please also understand that most of it is simply impossible for me at the moment. Thanks Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
On 06/16/2012 11:28 AM, jb-electronics wrote: Hi John, thanks for your advice! However, you use a little too much of the strong kind of words if you ask me: Perhaps. But having traveled the road you're now on, I know just how difficult it is to try to learn AND be using bad equipment. the problem is that you're forming muscle memories now that will be very hard to un-learn. I've been doing glass work for over 15 years now and I still have some vestiges of bad habits learned early. You're teaching yourself horrible techniques using completely wrong equipment. The first rule in glass blowing is: If it works, it works. I am still on the way of figuring this out. Only if you don't care what it looks like. And since this is a highly visual media, one SHOULD care what it looks like. The thing is I neither have the money for professional equipment nor the skills to build it all by myself. I had that problem too. That's why I built most all my equipment after having worked for a couple of weeks in a neon shop and had the opportunity to study and photograph all their equipment. The burner heads themselves are quite inexpensive. I paid less than $25 for that cannon fire head that I just showed a photograph of. OTOH, a ribbon fire cost about $500 without the air pump so I made mine from scratch including drilling the burner plate. It doesn't take that much skill to drill a bunch of holes! This is why I am trying to figure out how far I can get with ordinary equipment. Have you seen any of Aleksander Zawadas videos? He does all of his glasswork with a propane torch, and he is the pioneer in Nixie tube making. No I don't think I have and I just spent some time on Youtube looking. However, I doubt that he's doing anything that any of us neonists and glassworkers involved in art haven't already done. I know that many years ago I made my Neon John logo out of iron wire, welded it to some Dumet wire and sealed it in a glass bulb that I blew. AFIK, it still works just fine in the hands of whomever it was that stole my shop awhile back. It is however quite possible to do a perfect join of two glass tubes with just one flame (of a glass blowing burner, that is, though). I saw it myself a couple of months ago live in a small scientific tube factory. This person had 20 years of experience. Yes, I have (had) a bench burner. I got one after I learned that most Japanese neonists bend using just a bench burner. Somethings like sharp, short radius bends are easier to do with a bench burner but most things are easier with the conventional tools. Yes, I have seen that in the scientific tube factory as well. It takes a lot of experience with glass and its behaviour to get it right. I wish Yoda was here to teach me the ways of the glass. Once you've been shown how and have the right tools, it just takes practice. Lots and lots of practice. But you have to practice the right thing. Next, I urge you to get some neon tubing. Leaded glass if you can still I use soda lime glass, it is basically the same thing as lead glass, at least regarding the working temperatures and cooling-off behaviour. What's the advantage of neon tubing? NO, it's not. Neon glass (except in Spain where the use of Boro glass seem to predominate) is a high lead content crystal glass. Lead glass softens at a low enough temperature that it can be completely liquefied in an air-gas fire. More important, it is a very long glass. That is, it stays workable over a wide range of temperature and doesn't just suddenly freeze up like boro and soda glass do. That gives you time to correct your mistakes. Finally, the COE of leaded glass is low enough that it can be allowed to cool in air without cracking or developing much stress. Equally importantly, a previously heated section can be (carefully) reheated for further work without cracking. This ROHS BS has caused most leaded glass foundries to shut down so leaded glass tubing is hard to get. The strontium-based replacement, while COE compatible with leaded glass, is very much shorter than lead and practically demands an oxygen enriched air-fuel burner. I hate the stuff. I'm sorry that you find my attempts to guide you offensive but I just can't sit by and let you and others show people the wrong and more difficult ways without speaking up. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
Hi John, I did not find your reply offensive, but maybe the tone is a little bit pessimistic. the problem is that you're forming muscle memories now that will be very hard to un-learn. This may be true. But I think it is better to try with what you have than to do nothing at all. Only if you don't care what it looks like. And since this is a highly visual media, one SHOULD care what it looks like. It does not look that bad, to be honest. And with a little practice it will look even better. See the picture of the joint I made today: http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/comparison_joints.jpg Clearly, the joint I made is not very good. You can clearly see the transition, it almost looks like glued on, but there are practically no residual tensions in the glass and it is all tight. I had that problem too. That's why I built most all my equipment after having worked for a couple of weeks in a neon shop and had the opportunity to study and photograph all their equipment. Would you say that tube making equipment is similar to that of neon shops? I think most of it (the ribbon burner for instance) is something I would not use for tube making. No I don't think I have and I just spent some time on Youtube looking. However, I doubt that he's doing anything that any of us neonists and glassworkers involved in art haven't already done. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0Pm4swoOo It is Polish, so no wonder you did not find it. It is quite a complicated tube design, nothing one does in 5 minutes. AFIK, it still works just fine in the hands of whomever it was that stole my shop awhile back. Someone stole your shop?! Once you've been shown how and have the right tools, it just takes practice. Lots and lots of practice. But you have to practice the right thing. So, what are the right tools? A bench burner (oxygen propane pressurized air)? I'm sorry that you find my attempts to guide you offensive but I just can't sit by and let you and others show people the wrong and more difficult ways without speaking up. Oh, don't worry, when I start writing the glass blowing sections on my website, I will never claim that I am the pro and this is how it's done. I will merely show that this is the way I do it and it yields the respective results. I am always open for reasonable corrections in my glass working :-) Jens -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
Re: [neonixie-l] Soda lime - small success
On 06/16/2012 03:52 PM, jb-electronics wrote: It does not look that bad, to be honest. And with a little practice it will look even better. See the picture of the joint I made today: http://www.jb-electronics.de/tmp/comparison_joints.jpg Clearly, the joint I made is not very good. You can clearly see the transition, it almost looks like glued on, but there are practically no residual tensions in the glass and it is all tight. That's pretty good. I know some neon people who couldn't do a neck-down that nicely. The only thing I'd do differently is to flare the small tubing a bit before fusing the two so as to locate the splice is a larger diameter area where it is stronger. With some practice and some more heat you can stick it on using your method, then move the heat to the smaller tubing and blow it out a little. Would you say that tube making equipment is similar to that of neon shops? I think most of it (the ribbon burner for instance) is something I would not use for tube making. As I slowly rebuild my shop, my first fire is going to be a bench burner. Relatively expensive but I can do everything except large bends with it. My next would be a 14 tip cross-fire with pivots on at least the outer burners. That way one can flip a burner out and do things like burn a hole in a tube in preparation for attaching a tubulation or making a tee joint. For tube making, assuming you're going to buy your glass the diameter you need, that's about it. The only thing you'd need a ribbon burner for would be blowing the tubing to a larger diameter over a significant length. All scientific glass blowing shops that I've been in have a selection of different lengths of fixed length ribbons instead of the variable length one that neonists use. A ribbon would be useful for combination art. Say, a flower bent out of glass tubing with a nixie as one electrode. Have the discharge stream off the lit digit. If I were serious about making true Nixie tubes, I'd go through alibaba.com and find me a Chinese machine shop to make a set of dies to make tube bases like they used to. They work amazingly cheap. The one that extrudes our induction heater cases prices CNC machine work to the cases at $1 an hour. No, I didn't miss any zeros. AFIK, it still works just fine in the hands of whomever it was that stole my shop awhile back. Someone stole your shop?! Everything except the walls. I'd moved to another city but hadn't moved my shop out of the commercial building it was in. While I was making arrangements to have a prefab building set here at my house, someone broke in and spent a week or two cleaning the place out. Tools, stock, shelves, workbenches, a 10 ton A/C unit, the 600 lb bombarder transformer, even the light fixtures, wiring and plumbing. I literally opened the door into an empty room. Obviously scrappers. All my lovingly hand crafted tools are now melted down and made into an I-beam or something. John -- John DeArmond Tellico Plains, Occupied TN http://www.neon-john.com-- email from here http://www.johndearmond.com -- Best damned Blog on the net PGP key: wwwkeys.pgp.net: BCB68D77 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups neonixie-l group. To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
