Re: [NetBehaviour] Gaza

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Thanks Paul indeed we were in Skopje together thanks for the memory!
Ana

On Mon, 4 Dec 2023 at 21:09, Paul Hertz via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> In a war where generational trauma haunts all parties, it is extremely
> difficult to see a way forward for peace. Nevertheless, I would offer this
> link to a recent text by Mushon Zer-Aviv, which addresses that question.
>
> https://medium.com/@mushon/your-empathy-is-killing-us-1a50a4fc0488
>
> I can't remember if Mushon is on NetBehaviour. I know him from the
> Upgrade! list and meeting him in Skopje (I think Ana Valdés was there
> too?), and have followed his words for some years. Never before have they
> seemed so cogent or necessary. And I am moved more by the picture at the
> end of his text than by the words, speaking to the generational project
> that may be the only way forward from the deep set memory of trauma, the
> flight or fight or freeze response, the parochial empathy, the taking of
> sides, willy-nilly.
>
> There is more that I have been mulling over, but let me leave you first
> with Mushon's words.
>
> paz,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 10:26 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Gaza
>>
>> https://youtu.be/Yda-c_4agZA (saz)
>>
>> it's impossible to comprehend what is occurring in Gaza,
>> impossible to think through the violence and destruction,
>> through the continuous cruelty. we don't think clearly,
>> perhaps not at all, impossible but occurring, absent here
>> but there, but continuous, but incessant, what is to come
>> everywhere our abject fear, our fear is safe _here,_ it
>> is our fear to own from _this_ distance, this safety.
>> we did years ago have ongoing discussions on email lists
>> set up for that purpose, war, violence, testimony. now we
>> have our _safe nightmares_ as cruelty spreads everywhere.
>> perhaps everything falls short of weeping, of our safety
>> here, perhaps not. inside we were napalm not real here
>> we are irreal bombardment, accounts, disasters, bodies,
>> limbs, massacres, children, infants, so many civilians,
>> we have the duty here now of _thinking inconceivability_
>> to respond with art, music, writings, analyses, otherwise
>> than _there,_ in different words _here_ and not _there,_
>> the safety of the aporia, the moment of the trench
>> adjacent to the cusp. i contribute this long-necked saz
>> piece, i am useless, we watch the war inside of us, we
>> survive in the safety, for now, of our bodies, our minds
>> elsewhere, no where at all, the world inconceivable, lost
>>
>> it'simpossibletocomprehendwhatisoccurringinGaza,
>> impossibletothinkthroughtheviolenceanddestruction,
>> throughthecontinuouscruelty.wedon'tthinkclearly,
>> perhapsnotatall,impossiblebutoccurring,absenthere
>> butthere,butcontinuous,butincessant,whatistocome
>> everywhereourabjectfear,ourfearissafe_here,_it
>> isourfeartoownfrom_this_distance,thissafety.
>> wedidyearsagohaveongoingdiscussionsonemaillists
>> setupforthatpurpose,war,violence,testimony.nowwe
>> haveour_safenightmares_ascrueltyspreadseverywhere.
>> perhapseverythingfallsshortofweeping,ofoursafety
>> here,perhapsnot.insidewewerenapalmnotrealhere
>> weareirrealbombardment,accounts,disasters,bodies,
>> limbs,massacres,children,infants,somanycivilians,
>> wehavethedutyherenowof_thinkinginconceivability_
>> torespondwithart,music,writings,analyses,otherwise
>> than_there,_indifferentwords_here_andnot_there,_
>> thesafetyoftheaporia,themomentofthetrench
>> adjacenttothecusp.icontributethislong-neckedsaz
>> piece,iamuseless,wewatchthewarinsideofus,we
>> surviveinthesafety,fornow,ofourbodies,ourminds
>> elsewhere,nowhereatall,theworldinconceivable,lost
>> */the hurry/*
>>
>> ___
>>
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>>
>
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Gaza

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Alan I am so happy for your warm words. I was in Damask a few years ago and
did an interview with Khaled Meshal the speaker of Hamas who lived as a
refugee among other refugees.
That was a blatant difference compared to how Abbas live in a palace
watched by guards trained by the CIA and with faucets covered by gold. (I
was there nobody told me about it I saw the faucets with my own eyes).
And that's the most important explanation why the people in Gaza and in
other parts of the West Bank voted for Hamas.
Meshal himself told me when he travelled by plane between different
Arab countries many Christian Palestines come to him and said him "we voted
for you and Hamas not because we love Muslims or Hamas but because we are
so tired of Abbas corruption and cowardy against Israel".

Meshal was almost killed by the Mossad he was poisoned he lived in Amman at
that time. But the king of Jordan persuaded the Israeli prime minister to
send an antidote. He said he was afraid Meshal could die in Jordan and the
whole Muslim world should see him as an accomplice.
If Ravin did not send an antidote Jordan should break the truce with Israel
and go with tanks into the Jordan Valley.

Mossad sent the antidote Meshal survived and moved to  Syria more
impenetrable than Jordan.

Ana

On Mon, 4 Dec 2023 at 20:56, Alan Sondheim  wrote:

>
> Hi Ana,
>
> These are remarkable, the photographs might have been taken today.
> So much of the Chassidic literature I've read seems to be oriented towards
> peace and exaltation, not this, not what's going on.
> In Jerusalem, so many religions are present, so much conflict. I remember
> walking into town and there would be potshards on the path from any number
> of centuries.
> I do believe Netanyahu should be tried for war crimes! There must be a
> better way to deal with hamas than wholesale destruction.
> Here in Providence, people are on edge. People take sides of course.
> There's implicit violence everywhere. I fear for the lighting of the city
> menorah (there is one)...
>
> Thank you so so much for the images and account -
>
> Best, Alan
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 6:43 PM Ana Valdés  wrote:
>
>> Dear all I was too appalled to participate in any discussion about what
>> is happening in Palestine just now. But I was so touched by Alan's powerful
>> lyrics that I wanted to share my little contribution.
>> I come to Ramallah in the West Bank in 2001, invited by the European
>> Community to make a tour through Palestinian cultural centres.
>> We were a group of maybe 16 or 18, dancers, actors, writers, painters. We
>> were greeted by politicians and intellectuals we visited Mahmoud Darwish in
>> his house and saw theater and exhibitions.
>> We were planning to go to Jerusalem but a bomb exploded somewhere and the
>> second Intifada started.
>> Our group was evacuated to the hotel Ambassador in the Arab part of the
>> city very near the Swedish consulate.
>> We spent there a week awaiting the permits for leaving. It was a chaotic
>> lobby with people being evacuated from Gaza Nablus Jericho Bethlehem.
>> We left and we asked out Palestinian hosts what could we do to support
>> them.
>> They said come back don't forget us a people occupied and desperate.
>> We need witness.
>> Some months later my friend the Swedish visual artist Cecilia Parsberg
>> and me travelled again in our own paying our oxn expenses and we arrived to
>> Jenin a city in the North near Haifa which was besieged by the Israeli army
>> since ten days back.
>> Nobody knew what's happened all communication was broken no telephone no
>> radio no tv no journalists.
>> We travelled with smugglers through a mined landscape and we arrived to
>> Jenin which was surrounded by huge tanks. We climbed the hills with
>> hundreds of Palestinian and we come to a place of devastation very similar
>> to what's Gaza today.
>> It smelled acred and rancid tens of bodies were dead among the rubble of
>> demolished houses. We spent a few days taking pictures speaking with people
>> and writing articles.
>> www.ceciliaparsberg.se/jenin
>>
>> It was twenty years ago but the pictures could have been taken yesterday
>> as the texts could also be written today.
>>
>> The war and the attacks of Hamas happened not in a vacuum they are the
>> direct consequences of the occupation.
>>
>> I was in Tel Aviv invited by Gush Shalom and Bat Shalom the small and
>> courageous peace movements in Israel grounded by Uri Avnery Hawa Keller and
>> others, survivors of Auschwitz and Dachau.
>>
>> They took me to the Knesset where we met hundreds of your refuseniks
>> girls and boys everyone held by their hands by grandparents survivors of
>> the camps.
>>
>> The elder said to the Israeli brass "we barely survived we lost
>> everything but we learned morality and solidarity we can never submit
>> another people for what they did to us. Revenge is not a Jewish value".
>>
>> I read the same words today there are many soldiers refusing to enter
>> Gaza and participate 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Gaza

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Dear all I was too appalled to participate in any discussion about what is
happening in Palestine just now. But I was so touched by Alan's powerful
lyrics that I wanted to share my little contribution.
I come to Ramallah in the West Bank in 2001, invited by the European
Community to make a tour through Palestinian cultural centres.
We were a group of maybe 16 or 18, dancers, actors, writers, painters. We
were greeted by politicians and intellectuals we visited Mahmoud Darwish in
his house and saw theater and exhibitions.
We were planning to go to Jerusalem but a bomb exploded somewhere and the
second Intifada started.
Our group was evacuated to the hotel Ambassador in the Arab part of the
city very near the Swedish consulate.
We spent there a week awaiting the permits for leaving. It was a chaotic
lobby with people being evacuated from Gaza Nablus Jericho Bethlehem.
We left and we asked out Palestinian hosts what could we do to support them.
They said come back don't forget us a people occupied and desperate.
We need witness.
Some months later my friend the Swedish visual artist Cecilia Parsberg and
me travelled again in our own paying our oxn expenses and we arrived to
Jenin a city in the North near Haifa which was besieged by the Israeli army
since ten days back.
Nobody knew what's happened all communication was broken no telephone no
radio no tv no journalists.
We travelled with smugglers through a mined landscape and we arrived to
Jenin which was surrounded by huge tanks. We climbed the hills with
hundreds of Palestinian and we come to a place of devastation very similar
to what's Gaza today.
It smelled acred and rancid tens of bodies were dead among the rubble of
demolished houses. We spent a few days taking pictures speaking with people
and writing articles.
www.ceciliaparsberg.se/jenin

It was twenty years ago but the pictures could have been taken yesterday as
the texts could also be written today.

The war and the attacks of Hamas happened not in a vacuum they are the
direct consequences of the occupation.

I was in Tel Aviv invited by Gush Shalom and Bat Shalom the small and
courageous peace movements in Israel grounded by Uri Avnery Hawa Keller and
others, survivors of Auschwitz and Dachau.

They took me to the Knesset where we met hundreds of your refuseniks girls
and boys everyone held by their hands by grandparents survivors of the
camps.

The elder said to the Israeli brass "we barely survived we lost everything
but we learned morality and solidarity we can never submit another people
for what they did to us. Revenge is not a Jewish value".

I read the same words today there are many soldiers refusing to enter Gaza
and participate in this revenge war.

Israel should learn peace is not gained militarily and safety and security
are only achieved with justice.

Israel must end the occupation and the Palestinian need their own state now.

Ana

On Mon, 4 Dec 2023 at 20:05, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Hi Johannes,
>
> A number of things. First, several weeks ago I put up a fairly long post
> which was based totally on the practical, and there was a good discussion
> that emerged from this. Second of all, having had a year in Israel and two
> other trips in the past, and in touch with someone who works on a
> diplomatic level (as well as my mother who, I think I mentioned, made over
> 50 diplomatic trips to the mid-east in the interests of piece), I think
> I've read enough and written enough on the practical; I am also entitled,
> as we all are, to an artistic and emotional response.
>
>  I can say again, it's impossible to comprehend. Net. and company are far
> right-wing are far right-wing, supported by the religious far-right who
> vote enbloc. I do not go along with their policies.
> Again, it is not only Jews who are afraid here; an Islamic man selling
> religious items outside a mosque, here, in Providence, was shot recently.
> Again, Gaza hasn't been self-governing for decades, and what would you
> want to see come out of that? Much less the W. bank with Israeli settler
> violence.
> My friend is working on this diplomatically. I do what I can, we all do.
> I'm frightened. I hate Net. etc.
> I think you and I have to break ranks here. I do care what the left says.
> As I mentioned when I was in Is. the 1st time I had a letter of protest
> published in the Israeli engl language national paper - supporting the
> Arabs; already I saw what was going on, and this was less than two decades
> after the Holocaust.
> Finally without thinking inconceivably, you wouldn't have Paul Celan,
> possibly not Karl Krauss (who I am reading in depth now), and a number of
> other writers.
> And Providence is NOT a "lovely democratic safe community" as far as I can
> see.
>
> Best, Alan, apologies, you touched a nerve. Everyone I know is struggling
> over the war with widely varying responses; if one type of response doesn't
> suit you, you can just ignore it. 

Re: [NetBehaviour] NetBehaviour Digest, Vol 1505, Issue 1

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Marc I was touched by Jasons kind offer of sending you a care package with
Aussie oddities! I can add something of our Uruguayan novelties :)
But remember cancer is curable and we are mortals, mortality is our road
fellow and our companion. When I was in Jenin in Palestine I met a sweet
lady mother of seven kids. Three of them were murdered in different Israeli
attacks. I asked her how she coped with so much sorrow and pain.
She said listen friend we Arabs think we start to die the same day we are
born. Our life starts to be consummated right at the beginning. Its as a
candle if you never light a candle you will keep it for ever. But if you
light it in a few hours the candle is gone. Its the same with our lives, we
die but what its counts its what we did, the warmth and the light we
spreaded around us.
And your life is an example of warmth and ligjht, Marc.
Love
Ana


On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 12:23 PM Jason Nelson via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Oh Mark!   You have always been a rocket, a guiding beacon of creative
> explosion and thoughtful writing and observation. You are a true
> innovator.  And I know, from close family and personal experiences that
> your next steps will be messy and painful and crushing.  But I also know
> there will be moments of hope, and even, at times, perhaps aided by drugs,
> likely aided by substances, some joy!
>
> We live far too far away. But if there is anything we can do in a remote
> way, do let me and Alinta know.  We can send you some Tim-Tams and/or
> vegemite if that would help. Perhaps even some weird soft licorice or
> aussie chocolates that taste like fancy combined with sand and legumes and
> marshmallows.
>
> Seriously, we can send you a care package of Australia oddities if you
> desire such a thing. Just send me your address:  ja...@dpoetry.com
>
> I would say our thoughts are with you.  They are, but I doubt the doctors
> will treat you with thoughts.  And will you beat this...I think so, if
> only because you just might be too stubborn to let such trivial things as
> lesions stop your trajectory!
>
> much adoration.Jason Nelson
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 9:01 PM <
> netbehaviour-requ...@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>> Send NetBehaviour mailing list submissions to
>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Spy Theme (Simon Mclennan)
>>2. Yuk! Cancer... (marc garrett)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 01:24:07 +
>> From: Simon Mclennan 
>> To: netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Spy Theme
>> Message-ID: <44b58e4a-2948-4787-a2ca-b44fc91f6...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Improv on a theme https://youtu.be/ylWjeHzd0fk
>>
>> S
>>
>> Sent from my spyphone
>> -- next part --
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/pipermail/netbehaviour/attachments/20220209/236012c9/attachment-0001.htm
>> >
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2022 10:42:16 +
>> From: marc garrett 
>> To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>> 
>> Subject: [NetBehaviour] Yuk! Cancer...
>> Message-ID:
>> > j7fz4jgevgbdsxrtwaonf7-n8sqynqxlg...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Dear friends and associates on Netbehaviour,
>>
>> Last Wednesday I was diagnosed with stage 2 cancer in the form of lesions
>> around the neck, ear and throat - on the right side of my head. The
>> hospital crew dealing with my cancer say it's curable but they need to
>> begin the process immediately. It will involve an intense three months.
>> They will use radiotherapy and chemotherapy on me. It's going to be really
>> rough, already horrible things have happened. It will take about three
>> weeks to set it all up, and then visiting the hospital every day for six
>> weeks with radiotherapy and chemotherapy, ugh!
>>
>> I am officially on sick leave for the next three months regarding
>> Furtherfield matters, but I will pop up (hopefully) every now and then
>> with
>> certain projects that are underway - especially the new book which is out
>> very soon, called 'Frankenstein Reanimated: Art & Life in the 21st
>> Century.
>> Edited by Marc Garrett and Yiannis Colakides', to be published on Torque.
>>
>> Rather than telling everyone individually, 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Yuk! Cancer...

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Marc I wish you good spirits to fight it!
Ana


On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 12:34 PM Anthony Stephenson via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

>
>
>> Last Wednesday I was diagnosed with stage 2 cancer
>
>
> Sorry to hear this, Marc.
> Best of luck with the treatments.
> Warm regards
> --
>
> - *Anthony Stephenson*
>
>
>
> *http://anthonystephenson.org/ *
>
>
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] NOW LIVE!  People's Park Plinth  | Hervisions x Ayesha Tan Jones

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

I saw a very powerful exhibition mixing Art and Technology in ZKM in
Karlsruhe by the Icelandic/Danish artist Olafur Eliasson.

https://zkm.de/en/event/2001/05/olafur-eliasson-surroundings-surrounded


He has collaborated with Bruno Latour in several projects the latest I
think was in London in Tate.


https://www.tate.org.uk/whats-on/tate-modern/symposium/topology/spaces-transformation-continuityinfinity

Ana



On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 at 17:22, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Thanks Max and Anthony,
>
> I have forwarded your writing to the rest of Furtherfield crew and they
> like me are really encouraged by your thoughtful and thought-provoking
> responses to our work in Finsbury Park and on the value of art in urban
> green spaces and parks.
> The troubled and entwined roles of art of technology within our living
> ecosystems is a common topic of ongoing conversation with the researchers
> as part of the CreaTures project. https://creatures-eu.org/
> I think you may find some of the programmes in the Observatory
> particularly interesting including:  the Open Forest, MyCoBiont, Refuge for
> Resurgence, and Baltic Sea Labs https://creatures-eu.org/productions/
>
> Warmly
> Ruth
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 7:47 PM Max Herman 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Ruth,
>>
>>
>>
>> The Plinth and *Based on a Tree Story* both look fantastic!
>>
>>
>>
>> Parks -- especially urban ones, perhaps -- are so important as cultural
>> and artistic places.  They are very different from buildings, like museums,
>> libraries, or theaters (all of which are great too in their own ways).  It
>> is extremely admirable to undertake projects like the Plinth which in turn
>> make space for works such as *Based on a Tree Story*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Here in Minneapolis, both our major theater and our major modern art
>> museum have art-oriented parks adjacent to their main buildings, and the
>> city -- despite the recent devastating tragedies and longstanding
>> injustices which can in no way be simplistically resolved much less
>> obviated by culture or greenspace -- highlights the park system as both one
>> of the best reasons to live here and something like a communal
>> infrastructure of care, at least aspirationally but ideally more than
>> that.  One cannot help but hope culture and nature can somehow, in some
>> significant way, support and foster sustainable change and progress in
>> human society.  Sometimes that hope can even gather into moments of Tan
>> Jones' interesting phrase "optimistic dystopia."
>>
>>
>>
>> For whatever reason -- and with many caveats because I have never been to
>> Finsbury in person -- this announcement reminded me of the original Globe
>> Theater, in part because, oddly, references to plant and nature spirits
>> call to mind *A Midsummer Night's Dream, The Tempest,* and many other
>> works from that era.  I wouldn't ever advocate that the Renaissance of
>> 1300-1600 (or 1450-1550) can or should be returned to, but there may be
>> elements and parallels in common between that era and some of the crises or
>> opportunities of today.  The present-day Globe Theater is most certainly
>> not the original, but a second renaissance, not the same one, could be
>> underway.  Of course there seems to be rather little agreement on what if
>> anything should be renascent!  
>>
>>
>>
>> *Based on a Tree Story* seems to me to incorporate many of what may be
>> core elements for art to focus on in the "second" twenties.  A basic list
>> off the top of my head, with apologies for redundant or ill-considered
>> items:
>>
>>- Green or blue space -- the natural environment is part of art
>>- Human well-being -- human health and wellness (bodily, mental,
>>communicative, etc.) in all their forms pervade art
>>- Non-human life-beings -- trees, rivers, fauna, are as central as
>>the artist, theater, spectator, or polis in art
>>- Geographic and geological location -- the idea of "space without
>>place" from early cybertheory is never absolute, by either reduction or
>>physics, in art
>>- Blending of forms and media -- clay from the site, story, symbol,
>>narrative, multiple perspectives, living plants, and the body have agency
>>equally balanced with digital or other techne in art
>>- Community of aesthetic -- the realities of political and economic
>>justice, dialogue, and progress are equal partners in the life of art
>>- History and recovered time -- factors as diverse as Proust in
>>narrative and the neurologic basis of memory make the past present in art
>>
>>- Contemplative participation -- the viewer as participant has equal
>>aesthetic agency and is not reduced to being a consumer or owner, nor is
>>the producer or author role absolute in art
>>- Independence of tradition -- any and all traditions, as well as
>>adherence to none, have valid claim to agency in art
>>
>>
>> I see all of these elements reflected 

[NetBehaviour] Tahtzibichen Labyrinth Ancient Temple : The Megalithic Portal and Megalith Map:

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Tahtzibichen Labyrinth Ancient Temple : The Megalithic Portal and Megalith
Map:


https://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=20204
https://m.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=20204
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[NetBehaviour] Discover the Mayan labyrinth of Yucatan at Oxkintok

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Discover the Mayan labyrinth of Yucatan at Oxkintok


More about Maya labyrinths





https://en.elcaminomascorto.es/oxkintok-the-Mayan-labyrinth/
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Re: [NetBehaviour] labyrinth, maze, atlas

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Thanks Max the labyrinth or pattern or maze is indeed an old form of
representation a kind of natural metaphors where we mankind try to explain
things and create a narrative of our origin and our aims.
I was in Palenque Yucatán in Mexico once and saw the complicated labyrinths
the Mayas reproduced on wall paintings and gardens in the middle of the
forest.
Palenque was “discovered” or found as late as in 1922 but the archeologs
and explorers say there are still many sites or cities to be discovered.
Ana

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 at 02:05, Max Herman  wrote:

>
> Hi Ana,
>
> I was thinking today or yesterday that a key feature of a labyrinth or
> maze is you can't solve it in advance then speed through.  You have to
> experience it, and it has unpredictable or random features.  This calls for
> a certain being present, with a place, time, and task or activity.  The
> task has no purpose beyond its being experienced.
>
> It's also a prehistoric art form, arguably, going back to stone circles or
> indigenous "medicine wheels," thus having omni-cultural aspects perhaps.
> There is often a link between microcosm and macrocosm implied or stated.
> I'm sure there must be electronic ways to mediate such an activity but
> since digital technology makes it so easy and profitable to script an
> environment, and since the body is somewhat excluded from electronic
> settings, that may be more the norm in our hopefully still early stages.
>
> I've never been to Chartres, but Warburgs Atlas has an unscripted "place"
> aspect to it, as may possibly the Berlin exhibit of Leonardo's Books by the
> Planck Institute till June 28 (where the artifacts are arranged kind of
> like maze they say, plus with a vortex of papers at the center, but still
> there is no travel there from here).  I did see the 2019 showing at the
> Museo Galileo, which started off all my interest in Leonardo, so I'm
> interested to see what the virtual version of the Berlin exhibit is like.
>
> All best,
>
> Max
>
>
> https://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/research/exhibition/leonardos-intellectual-cosmos-2021
>
>
>
>
> --
> *From:* Ana Valdés 
> *Sent:* Monday, June 21, 2021 9:50 AM
> *To:* NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Cc:* Max Herman 
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour list renewal - happy lurker
>
> I was once an avid sci-fi and phantasy reader read all Game of Thrones
> before the tv and the hype :)
> There is a great writer Roger Zelazny who wrote several books about a
> parallel world, Amber. There is a maze or labyrinth and only the ones who
> learn to navigate the maze and go trough the maze are worth to rule.
> I saw the maze at the cathedral of Chartres and it’s very interesting to
> see how the maze was used by the Templar’s the masons and the scholars
> studying the Kabbala.
> The maze as metaphor is very powerful.
> Ana
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 11:27, Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Jessica and happy solstice all!
>
> The giant labyrinth sounds intriguing.  A very ancient form, and so
> different from one person making an art object then selling it to another.
> Perhaps the latter is the greatest illusion of all?  A distraction in a
> maze.
>
> Labyrinths -- well I could go on and on.  You enter, like a stone circle,
> then exit, but in imagination too.  It's like conscious meditative time,
> both more and less individualized.
>
> As to poetics of imagination -- very relevant too I think.  Poetics is not
> words only.  In Leonardo's time they called the debate between poetry and
> painting, Dante and Apelles, the paragone for which is best, the paragon.
> Leonardo said they are the same art form, just differently focused for the
> eyes or ears in how we encounter them, both connecting to the imagination
> or sensus communis within the person.  I think he wanted to create a visual
> counterpoint to Dante, in some ways, to demonstrate this.
>
> Theres a concept in meditation called "softening of vision," I think,
> which is very physically noticeable in contrast to rigid, brittle, narrow
> sight, I mean in the eyes.  Seeing looks and feels different.  Not sure how
> to articulate this with brevity but there might be something like it in
> sound and words too.  I think of this phenomenon sometimes as a kind of
> poetics perhaps or part and electronic media have an effect on my
> experience of it not always for the better.
>
> All best regards,
>
> Max
> --
> *From:* NetBehaviour  on
> behalf of Jessica May via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2021 4:16 PM
> *To:* NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Cc:* Jessica May 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour list renewal - happy lurker
>
> I'm a new, Happy Lurker!
> Introduced recently by Adam (of 'A campfire in a 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour list renewal - happy lurker

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

I was once an avid sci-fi and phantasy reader read all Game of Thrones
before the tv and the hype :)
There is a great writer Roger Zelazny who wrote several books about a
parallel world, Amber. There is a maze or labyrinth and only the ones who
learn to navigate the maze and go trough the maze are worth to rule.
I saw the maze at the cathedral of Chartres and it’s very interesting to
see how the maze was used by the Templar’s the masons and the scholars
studying the Kabbala.
The maze as metaphor is very powerful.
Ana


On Mon, 21 Jun 2021 at 11:27, Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

>
> Hi Jessica and happy solstice all!
>
> The giant labyrinth sounds intriguing.  A very ancient form, and so
> different from one person making an art object then selling it to another.
> Perhaps the latter is the greatest illusion of all?  A distraction in a
> maze.
>
> Labyrinths -- well I could go on and on.  You enter, like a stone circle,
> then exit, but in imagination too.  It's like conscious meditative time,
> both more and less individualized.
>
> As to poetics of imagination -- very relevant too I think.  Poetics is not
> words only.  In Leonardo's time they called the debate between poetry and
> painting, Dante and Apelles, the paragone for which is best, the paragon.
> Leonardo said they are the same art form, just differently focused for the
> eyes or ears in how we encounter them, both connecting to the imagination
> or sensus communis within the person.  I think he wanted to create a visual
> counterpoint to Dante, in some ways, to demonstrate this.
>
> Theres a concept in meditation called "softening of vision," I think,
> which is very physically noticeable in contrast to rigid, brittle, narrow
> sight, I mean in the eyes.  Seeing looks and feels different.  Not sure how
> to articulate this with brevity but there might be something like it in
> sound and words too.  I think of this phenomenon sometimes as a kind of
> poetics perhaps or part and electronic media have an effect on my
> experience of it not always for the better.
>
> All best regards,
>
> Max
> --
> *From:* NetBehaviour  on
> behalf of Jessica May via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 18, 2021 4:16 PM
> *To:* NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Cc:* Jessica May 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour list renewal - happy lurker
>
> I'm a new, Happy Lurker!
> Introduced recently by Adam (of 'A campfire in a ruin in a forest' post),
> I myself am not very at home in the digital realm. I am a woodland creature
> studying for an MA in 'The Poetics of Imagination' (!) at Dartington Arts
> School and helping build a giant labyrinth on Bodmin moor; but I am curious
> about how I stay abreast of all the exciting stuff that happens online,
> when I don't really want to be. And curious about the net as an
> imaginal space for the collective mind, obvs.
> This list seems intriguing, delightful, non techy, and full of strange and
> great minds. Please keep me onboard for now, and thanks for to those who
> facilitate :)
>
>
>
> On Fri, 18 Jun 2021 at 13:47, Irini Papadimitriou <
> ir...@futureeverything.org> wrote:
>
> A happy lurker too:)
> I don't post here often, but this is a great place. I hugely respect what
> Ruth and Marc have been doing for all these years, and Furtherfield has
> been a great inspiration!
> Thank you!
> Irini
>
>
> Irini Mirena Papadimitriou
> Creative Director | FutureEverything
> twitter: @futureverything @irini_mirena | web: http://futureeverything.org
> Holyoake House, Hanover Street, Manchester, M60 0AS
>
>
> *CURRENT PROJECTS:*
>
>
> *Check out our latest newsletter here
>  *
>
> *Future Focus*
> 
> Our new online programme bringing people together to share ideas, connect
> and collectively imagine better, more considerate futures. Current
> programme: Money and Environment
> 
>
> *Trickle Down, A New Vertical Sovereignty
> 
> by Helen Knowles*
> A tokenised four-screen video installation and generative soundscape
> attached to the blockchain, exploring value systems and wealth disparity.
> This new body of work is now available for touring.
>
>
> *Innovate Manchester
> 
> *
> An ambitious events programme bringing together business, academia and
> creative thinkers to collaborate on ideas for a more sustainable future.
> In collaboration with MIDAS and the Business Growth Hub.
>
>
> --
> *From:* NetBehaviour  on
> behalf of Tom Keene 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Storytelling and sorting

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Beautiful and poetic!
Ana

On Wed, 16 Jun 2021 at 14:40, Pall Thayer via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Most of us, who spend lots of time making computers do things, know about
> data and how easily it can be manipulated to tell vastly different stories.
> A database is a completely abstract way of storing big amounts of data. The
> database itself doesn't care what kind of data it is, what it's meant to
> record or what any of it means. But when we extract that data from a
> database, we lend meaning to it by sorting it. We could probably find some
> news outlets who present the exact same data but manipulate its meaning by
> sorting it in different ways.
>
> Lately, I've been applying these notions to digital images. Digital images
> are simply data that have been sorted in a specific way to present a
> specific image. But, just like with textual and numerical data, we can
> re-sort this data to create new stories (see attached).
>
> Ps. submitting this to stay on the list! Thanks for all you do Ruth and
> Marc.
>
> Pall Thayer
>
> --
> *
> Pall Thayer
> artist
> http://pallthayer.dyndns.org
> *
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
-- 
https://anavaldes.wordpress.com/
www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0






cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
— Leonardo da Vinci
___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Netbehaviour renewal - Occupy? a commons? by a fire, in the ruins in an ancient woodland

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

When I was younger and the Net was young as well and we used Telnet to open
our mail and slow modems it was a war. An European war. Not a tribal war in
far Africa or in the Middle East but it contained all same elements
barbaric killings mass graves we are still opening (Tuzla, Srebrenica),
insane hatred of your neighbours, etc.
The only allowed to the besieged Sarajevo was UN trucks loaded with
medicine and foods. A French group called itself “Modems sans Frontieres”
(Modems without borders) and successful smuggled in the city several models
and some old computers.
The modems run trough a slow connection in Austria in Vienna since the
Serbs had cut away all the cables and infrastructure in Bosnia.
Through several days maybe one week or ten days everyone living in Sarajevo
was able to post to their relatives and friends abroad it was a kind of
bottles on the sea since nobody knew people email and at that time few ppl
used email abs had personal addresses.
Some of their messages was of this kind: “Dear  Dejan grandmother died in
the last shelling of our village. Pray for her she loves you so much” “Dear
Ali we hope you managed to flee the killing in Srebrenica we hear horrible
things” “Dear Zulma we hope you are coping well with things we live most on
our cellar since the shellings are random and the snipers kill everyone
daring to go openly to the town. We don’t have so much food. We hope see
you soon when this is over”.

It was touching and warm hear/read all those disembodied voices.
For me this list and all others I am on reminds me on those anonymous and
collective agora where all voices are heard.

Thinking about Bachtins superb analys about how our society denies the
right to speak and try to kidnap the discourse making it hegemonic. We need
go back to the polyphonic society Bachtin wrote about.

Ana

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 at 13:31, nathaniel stern via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Happy Lurker agrees.
>
> nathaniel stern
> http://nathanielstern.com
>
> On Jun 12, 2021, at 9:03 AM, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
> Dear everyone,
>
> Thanks so much for helping me to work through some of my niggles with the
> list. I now have a much better sense of what its value is to some of us at
> the fireside and a few of the people from the woods. I've also been greatly
> enjoying the recent exchanges!
>
> I also found Adam's email beautiful. Especially personally resonant
> because I lived for a year in Penryn unaware of the history of the
> Ordinalia there. I find the format of passion plays - "acts" of faith
> "performed" by people in the places where they belong - enthralling.Thanks
> for that Adam!
>
> Annie's response was also really helpful for me. The revolutionary impulse
> of the early media art initiatives that interested me was tied up with
> infrastructural critique and a desire to create a new art context together.
> This revolved around efforts to create open access, and co-ownership of the
> media and platforms we needed for collaboration. Bringing together FLOSS
> and Art. There is still a lot of inspiring work in this area Constant
> https://constantvzw.org/ for example.
>
> While I "get" the Occupy vibe here, it doesn't feel so useful as an
> analogy for this list/community as it stands at the moment. Occupy's
> central commitment was to participatory democracy. The location of
> occupations were chosen for their symbolic significance to state-corporate
> capitalism, right? I guess we could think of this list as a prefigurative
> community resisting corporate platforms (I share everyone's love of this as
> an advertising-free space). But I detect less interest among this group in
> the question of how bottom-up decisions should be made to ensure fair
> distribution of power, and how that might in turn lead to the overthrow of
> capitalism. Occupy activists developed social technologies (some digital
> platforms, some gestures and techniques for use in large groups of people
> gathered physically) to make ALL the decisions together about all the
> things - from collective vision to organising waste-disposal. It's more
> emergent here.
>
> If we can agree that Commons are "shared cultural or material resources
> managed by communities for individual and collective benefit" then maybe
> this is what we have been working out here over the last couple of weeks
> and Netbehaviour is a kind of commons. If we can agree that we (all
> subscribers) collectively own this place, and are willing to reflect on
> this occasionally - that's more than enough for me. We can stay with
> furtherfield legacy infrastructure and near-zero moderation by Marc and me
> for now (if that suits everyone).
>
> Finally, I would be curious to hear your feelings about this proposal for
> list renewal.
> ===
>
> Over a 1 month period starting xxx
> We invite all subscribers to do one of 3 things
>
> 1. Make a post on any topic or 

Re: [NetBehaviour] going silent

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Marc Ruth and all others Netbehaviour -empyre and Furtherfield are my
digital ”homes” and I always feel welcome and encouraged in those places.
Life after COVID is changing our way of life and giving us new perspectives
or retaking old ones.
Sadly to hear about your mother. I still don’t know why I survived maybe it
was just serendipity or I have still some mission to accomplish
Your virtual friend
Ana

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 at 17:25, marc garrett via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Hi Ana,
>
> Always great to hear from you,
>
> And, especially glad you have recovered from Covid-19. It has been a tough
> time for many of us this last year. I lost my mother and her boyfriend
> recently, which has brought about some serious questions.
>
> For me, those questions involved making some big choices that evolved
> around issues concerning getting closer to my personal interests. I am now
> part-time with Furtherfield curating, researching and doing projects like
> the Furtherlist & podcasts, and make art and write about things I am really
> intrigued by, but is also part of the culture we all belong to. This
> balance seems to work better for me after co-running Furtherfiel for over
> 25 years.
>
> You may be interested in this - The Year of Covid-19, Death and Collages.
> https://marcgarrett.org/2021/04/12/the-year-of-covid-19-death-and-collages/
>
> I also really enjoyed your post about how you view the list can develop in
> the near future.
>
> Wishing you well.
>
> Marc
>
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 at 19:57, Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>> Alan I hope your silence should be a short one! And regarding your
>> brother sad but mortality is our companion and we need to deal with it.
>> Until I fell sick with serious COVID and stayed one and half month at the
>> Hospital I fell I was inmortal too…
>> I am a changed person now… all the best to you and your brother
>> Ana
>>
>> On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 at 15:45, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour <
>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Alan,
>>>
>>> So sorry to hear this.
>>> Wishing the very best to you all.
>>> We will miss you.
>>>
>>> Ruth
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 5:51 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
>>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm going silent on Netbehaviour. My brother has cancer and I'm having
>>>> a hard time digesting that.
>>>> These discussions are difficult for me. I can always be reached
>>>> back-channel at sondh...@gmail.com . I'll be posting on Facebook as
>>>> usual and on the smaller lists wryting-l and Cybermind that I moderate.
>>>> Apologies for any disruptions.
>>>> For any announcements, I'd appreciate having my address added to your
>>>> mailing list.
>>>> Of course I'll go along with whatever the list transforms into.
>>>> I need to sleep.
>>>>
>>>> Best to everyone, Alan
>>>> ___
>>>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>>>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>>>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ruth Catlow
>>> she/her
>>> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised
>>> Arts Lab
>>> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>>>
>>> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender
>>> balanced.
>>>
>>> **sending thanks
>>> <https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-newsroom/press-releases/2019/november/think-before-you-thank-if-every-brit-sent-one-less-thank-you-email-a-day-we-would-save-16433-tonnes-of-carbon-a-year-the-same-as-81152-flights-to-madrid.html>
>>>  in
>>> advance
>>>
>>> *Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through 
>>> exhibitions,
>>> labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
>>> furtherfield.org <http://www.furtherfield.org/>
>>>
>>> *DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0
>>> technologies research hub
>>>
>>> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
>>>
>>> decal.is <http://www.decal.is>
>>>
>>> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee
>>>
>>> Re

Re: [NetBehaviour] going silent

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Alan I hope your silence should be a short one! And regarding your brother
sad but mortality is our companion and we need to deal with it.
Until I fell sick with serious COVID and stayed one and half month at the
Hospital I fell I was inmortal too…
I am a changed person now… all the best to you and your brother
Ana

On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 at 15:45, Ruth Catlow via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Dear Alan,
>
> So sorry to hear this.
> Wishing the very best to you all.
> We will miss you.
>
> Ruth
>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 5:51 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I'm going silent on Netbehaviour. My brother has cancer and I'm having a
>> hard time digesting that.
>> These discussions are difficult for me. I can always be reached
>> back-channel at sondh...@gmail.com . I'll be posting on Facebook as
>> usual and on the smaller lists wryting-l and Cybermind that I moderate.
>> Apologies for any disruptions.
>> For any announcements, I'd appreciate having my address added to your
>> mailing list.
>> Of course I'll go along with whatever the list transforms into.
>> I need to sleep.
>>
>> Best to everyone, Alan
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>
>
>
> --
> Ruth Catlow
> she/her
> Co-founder & Artistic director of Furtherfield & DECAL Decentralised Arts
> Lab
> +44 (0) 77370 02879
>
> *I will only agree to speak at events that are racially and gender
> balanced.
>
> **sending thanks
> 
>  in
> advance
>
> *Furtherfield *disrupts and democratises art and technology through 
> exhibitions,
> labs & debate, for deep exploration, open tools & free thinking.
> furtherfield.org 
>
> *DECAL* Decentralised Arts Lab is an arts, blockchain & web 3.0
> technologies research hub
>
> for fairer, more dynamic & connected cultural ecologies & economies now.
>
> decal.is 
>
> Furtherfield is a Not-for-Profit Company Limited by Guarantee
>
> Registered in England and Wales under the Company No.7005205.
>
> Registered business address: Carbon Accountancy, 80-83 Long Lane, London,
> EC1A 9ET
> 
> .
>
>
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org
> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
-- 
https://anavaldes.wordpress.com/
www.twitter.com/caravia158
http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/
http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia
http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0






cell Sweden +4670-3213370
cell Uruguay +598-99470758


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with
your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always
long to return.
— Leonardo da Vinci
___
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Re: [NetBehaviour] (Putting up a piece from a couple of day ago)

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

I was a bit puzzled when Alan wrote that -empyre a list where many of us
belong and has participated for more than ten years is about politics. Did
I misread you Alan? That’s the difficulties inherent to have English as
third language :) I feel I sometimes misses nuances and shades.
Because for me, a former political prisoner, everything is political, the
way Furtherfield was created their work to put street art and digital
creation in the first place, etc. This list is for me a political list as
-empyre. They are managed differently but for me it’s a formal difference
not a crucial one.
I should love Netbehaviour to renew itself from bottom up and find in our
own practice and work the tools for a change. But not a cosmetic change but
a change in a deep sense.
If not we risk to do what Burt Lancaster said in il Gatopardo, Lampedusas
great novel and a great movie:
“ We must change something to keep the things as they are”.

Cheers
Ana



On Tue, 8 Jun 2021 at 06:25, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

> Hi Ruth,
>
> I think you misunderstand, or I do. For me it is a Commons, absolutely,
> precisely because it's not steered by anyone. Steering is restrictive; it
> becomes something else, you're asserting power, of course, as list owners.
> It's been running fine for everyone I've talked to. I think when you say
> "feel the shape of the community" that also implies perhaps that you want a
> different sort of commons, where you alter that shape.
>
> None of us want to let it go and as far as I can tell, none of us have
> felt we couldn't post or threatened or that we needed guidance or anything
> else. There are lists that have tried that - Poetics, which ultimately
> collapsed; the old Fiction of Philosophy list which I ran and tried to
> structure, and so forth. I can find that sort of thing even on Facebook.
>
> Clearly we have different ideas of the Commons; mine is similar to occupy,
> comes from bottom up; yours is top down. I never meant to imply by the way
> that you should steer the list, just the opposite.
> It has to do with power, and clearly you and Marc have that and are
> dissatisfied with what others find valuable and enjoy, a community from the
> bottom up, and one that's pretty self-regulating.
>
> If you let it go, there's no ceremony, it's a disaster based on your
> decisions, not the members of the list. If it's that you're tired of
> running it, because of technical issues, I'm sure a small group of us could
> take that over; it's not difficult.
>
> Best, Alan, getting increasingly despondent over all of this. And now I
> have a close relative who has cancer, I might drop out. Argh.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:57 AM Ruth Catlow  wrote:
>
>> Dear All!
>>
>> Firstly, Alan I also love your posts -the pattern which I think of as an
>> art ping, and the content (when I watch, listen, read it) is a portal into
>> your art practise which I really enjoy and value.
>>
>> I also think that Alan has a point in saying that Marc and I should
>> provide a steer as list owners. I have a few ideas that I will share at the
>> weekend (it's a hardcore project week this week for me).
>>
>> But in the meantime keeping the conversation open is allowing us to see
>> and feel the shape of the community. It has been so useful to hear from
>> Gretta, Patrick, Paul, Ana, Annie, Johannes, Erik and all. More please! We
>> also appreciate various offers from people to contribute financially to the
>> lists upkeep.
>>
>> We regard the value in this list as the strange undefined collective
>> property of everyone who has ever contributed. But as it is currently set
>> up, it is not a Commons. I personally, would like it if it were.
>> We can also consider Annie's suggestion of letting it go. But if that's
>> the way it goes (and this is not what I want) it should certainly not be
>> done casually, rather with the ceremony befitting the splendour of all that
>> has ever occurred here ; )
>>
>> I do want to reassure you Alan, we will make no sudden moves! The whole
>> point of discussing this now is that it is not an emergency. We just need
>> to work out who "we" are and what "we" want.
>>
>> Warmly
>> Ruth
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 7, 2021 at 11:48 PM Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour <
>> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> I think we need some guidance; both Ruth and Marc seem unhappy with
>>> Netbehaviour as it is.
>>> I'm not sure myself whether to post or not.
>>> Certainly calls could be put out to all the subscribers to indicate
>>> whether they want to continue as such or not.
>>> It's all about "as such or not" I think. Technically, Marc and Ruth are
>>> list-owners, I believe. Ultimately they're responsible for the direction of
>>> the list in the sense that any of us could be unsubscribed at the very
>>> least.
>>> There are times I've had to unsub people and that's always painful, as
>>> would be, at least for us, shutting 

Re: [NetBehaviour] (no subject)

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

I must be honest, I read the list but don't participate so often. Now I
have a good excuse I was at hospital a month with severe Covid and I am now
at home slowly recuperating forces. I read Alans post and found it radical
and a beacon for a bigger discussion.
Are the lists updated as format or do they still have a space to occupy?
I am still a subscriber to -empyre as many of you are and think the format
Christina and Renate use is still very powerful and useful. To have guests
and invite people to be join moderators and have different topics every
month help the list to be more dynamic.
Its a paradox, Netbehaviour is so open and borderless sometimes feels
impossible to follow.
I love Marc and Ruth work and appreciate their great work with the list and
with Furtherfield, but maybe the format for the list tolerates some update?
Ana
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Fires in Australia

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Edward money is not enough. The class Bolsonaro support, the core of his
electors, are greedy landowners and they want the WHOLE Amazonian for
planting soya.
They want draw motorways and erase the jungle as they did in Rio and in
other parts. Brasil has other jungle, la Mata Atlántica, once an immense
jungle running along their long coat. Now it’s bare exist taken away for
give place to cities.
For me the puzzle is why people choose them? Morrison or Bolsonaro or Trump
are chosen they can behave as dictators and they can have come to power in
rigged elections as Trump In the US or Bolsonaro in Brasil but they were
elected.
Ana

El El dom, 5 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 12:19, Edward Picot via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> escribió:

> Ana,
>
> As for Bolsonaro, it's my belief, and has been for many years, that if the
> West expects a country like Brazil to preserve rainforests and biodiversity
> on behalf of the whole world, then they have to pay them to do it, and I
> mean serious money. It should be worth more financially to preserve the
> forests and export oxygen for the benefit of the rest of us than to cut
> them down and plant palm oil or create beef farms or whatever. Then there
> wouldn't be any argument.
>
> Bolsonaro is an arsehole, but wagging a finger at him in the style of
> Macron isn't going to make him budge.
>
> Edward
>
> On 05/01/2020 15:05, Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for sharing so important inputs and thoughts! I feel a growing
> frustration about how politicians are handling this issues. In the worst
> draugh a province in Australia sold the common water to a private
> enterprise.
> And neither Bolsonaro or Morrison or Trump are acting as leaders in time
> of a crisis. They carry on and on and on not relating fires to capitalism
> and its ways, fracking and mining.
> They despise the knowledge of scientists and of the aboriginal ways to
> live and work they blame the people speaking about climate change.
> I assume many on this list are familiar with Donna Haraway. Her writings
> about the Anthroposcene a new age where we, Mankind, are responsible for
> disasters and ways to live which unsettle Nature and the natural order are
> very important and give advice and explanations.
> Ana
>
>
> El El dom, 5 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 11:43, Edward Picot via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> escribió:
>
>> Helen,
>>
>> That's really useful information about the donation links and the Adani
>> coal mine. I didn't know about the coal mine before.
>>
>> As for Scott Morrison and his government, I think there's more to it than
>> sheer stupidity. As with Trump and Boris Johnson, there's a right-wing
>> populist agenda at play, which is all about protecting and promoting the
>> interests of big business, but it sustains itself in power by appealing to
>> certain lowest-common-denominator prejudices in the minds of the voting
>> public, and serving up what are basically lies to reinforce its appeal. So
>> Morrison has now moved on from claiming that the link between bushfires and
>> global warming is all in the minds of urban woke greeny loony lefties; he's
>> now claiming that he never denied that link in the first place; but he's
>> also making out that the bushfires are particularly bad because the greeny
>> loony lefties have been blocking bushfire hazard reduction measures in the
>> national parks. This is rejected as nonsense by bushfire experts, but the
>> claim doesn't have to be accurate to make its impact. And that's the
>> problem. Populist politics has found the faultline in modern democracy,
>> where things don't have to be true, or even make sense, to influence voting
>> patterns; they use tactics of misinformation and misdirection as a
>> deliberate policy to sustain themselves in power. And the left/green
>> parties haven't yet found a way to counteract those tactics, or to tap into
>> the huge groundswell of opinion which is undoubtedly building behind
>> environmentalist causes, particularly amongst the young. In countries like
>> the UK young people just take it for granted that something urgently needs
>> to be done about the environment; but they don't have any faith in the
>> political parties to deliver the required changes. So their convictions
>> don't translate into votes. And you can't blame them. The environment
>> hardly featured as an issue in the election we just had.
>>
>> Things are going to change, I'm sure. But how much damage is the planet
>> going to sustain before the changes happen? It's a frightening prospect.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>>
>> On 05/01/2020 13:10, He

Re: [NetBehaviour] Fires in Australia

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Thanks for sharing so important inputs and thoughts! I feel a growing
frustration about how politicians are handling this issues. In the worst
draugh a province in Australia sold the common water to a private
enterprise.
And neither Bolsonaro or Morrison or Trump are acting as leaders in time of
a crisis. They carry on and on and on not relating fires to capitalism and
its ways, fracking and mining.
They despise the knowledge of scientists and of the aboriginal ways to live
and work they blame the people speaking about climate change.
I assume many on this list are familiar with Donna Haraway. Her writings
about the Anthroposcene a new age where we, Mankind, are responsible for
disasters and ways to live which unsettle Nature and the natural order are
very important and give advice and explanations.
Ana


El El dom, 5 de ene. de 2020 a la(s) 11:43, Edward Picot via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> escribió:

> Helen,
>
> That's really useful information about the donation links and the Adani
> coal mine. I didn't know about the coal mine before.
>
> As for Scott Morrison and his government, I think there's more to it than
> sheer stupidity. As with Trump and Boris Johnson, there's a right-wing
> populist agenda at play, which is all about protecting and promoting the
> interests of big business, but it sustains itself in power by appealing to
> certain lowest-common-denominator prejudices in the minds of the voting
> public, and serving up what are basically lies to reinforce its appeal. So
> Morrison has now moved on from claiming that the link between bushfires and
> global warming is all in the minds of urban woke greeny loony lefties; he's
> now claiming that he never denied that link in the first place; but he's
> also making out that the bushfires are particularly bad because the greeny
> loony lefties have been blocking bushfire hazard reduction measures in the
> national parks. This is rejected as nonsense by bushfire experts, but the
> claim doesn't have to be accurate to make its impact. And that's the
> problem. Populist politics has found the faultline in modern democracy,
> where things don't have to be true, or even make sense, to influence voting
> patterns; they use tactics of misinformation and misdirection as a
> deliberate policy to sustain themselves in power. And the left/green
> parties haven't yet found a way to counteract those tactics, or to tap into
> the huge groundswell of opinion which is undoubtedly building behind
> environmentalist causes, particularly amongst the young. In countries like
> the UK young people just take it for granted that something urgently needs
> to be done about the environment; but they don't have any faith in the
> political parties to deliver the required changes. So their convictions
> don't translate into votes. And you can't blame them. The environment
> hardly featured as an issue in the election we just had.
>
> Things are going to change, I'm sure. But how much damage is the planet
> going to sustain before the changes happen? It's a frightening prospect.
>
> Edward
>
>
> On 05/01/2020 13:10, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
>
> hi alan,
>
> it is truly devastating & catastrophic what is happening in australia, &
> outrageous that the government there continues to be so fucking stupid. i
> heard that scott morrison (the prime minister, who chose to have a hawaiian
> holiday in the midst of it all) would fly out to china to discuss trade
> negotiations, including coal mining, immediately after meeting with fire
> chiefs. his inability to make the connections is staggering.
>
> i have many family and friends in australia and everyone is affected in
> some way; some have lost property, everyone is affected by the smoke, my
> family & friends in new zealand are also seeing and breathing the smoke.
> yes, an estimated half a billion birds, animals & insects have died. and
> the fires are still burning, many out of control, and no end in sight. this
> level of catastrophe has been predicted - but not for another decade;
> everything is accelerating.
>
> what can we do? suzon posted this list of donation links:
> https://www.abc.net.au/classic/read-and-watch/news/bushfire-donations/11823676
> - there are plenty of places to make financial donations & if you are in
> australia there are practical things you can do to help.
>
> we can write to scott morrison (@scottmorrisonmp on twitter) and other
> australian politicians, urging them to take the climate emergency seriously
> (australia is one of the worst countries in the world in terms of climate
> policy:
> https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australia-s-climate-change-policy-ranked-57-out-of-61-countries
> )
>
> a related campaign that is well worth supporting is the long struggle
> against the adani coal mine - is a major fossil-fuel extraction project
> which will contribute massively to global warming as well as being totally
> unethical. the queensland government illegally rescinded 

Re: [NetBehaviour] Nobel prize for Handke

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

; Perhaps he saw problems with both eastern-bloc intellectual systems and
> western-bloc, almost twin sides of the same structure of control.  I do
> know a bit of Bernhard and like his take on many things; I'm not sure of
> his relation to Handke or whether Bernhard had an evil side.  I did like
> Bernhard's *Old Masters* a lot, and appreciated his antipathy toward
> nationalism.  Kafka in "Metamorphosis" also illustrated how social,
> linguistic, and cultural systems of conformity and control can erase
> humanity.
>
> It is possible that meditation or mindfulness, as a physically manifested
> neurological process-state, is the true source of a positive symbiosis
> between language and humanity i.e. between the organic realities of the
> brain/body and language systems which can be infused with technology.  The
> language network should respect and value the human consciousness, not try
> to control and reduce it to a machine part, and meditation is a necessary
> part of that "respect" which has dialectical and organic characteristics.
>
> I would differ from the argument that flesh and geography are necessarily
> the source (which can be inferred incorrectly from the truth that humans
> are embodied and located in space-time, and that sometimes flesh and
> geography can coincide with the source to a granularity which makes the two
> indistinguishable).  We do form meaningful connections to other people,
> objects, architecture, the natural world.  However, I believe that the
> meditation element that infuses every culture is the primary source of the
> harmony, and the physical/spatial connections emanate from the meditational
> element.
>
> One reason for this I believe is the necessity of self-regulation, of
> re-set, and their corollary of healing or repair.  If a consciousness-body
> is out of sync, disrupted, and lacking in physical/locational conditions
> which have changed or disappeared or perhaps never were, how could it
> possibly adapt and remain resilient?  If the "source" of proper balance and
> calibration is the fleeting changeable body-plus-land, how could there be
> any survival?  There must be something else that "survives," and one
> possibility could be the network potentiality and capabilities of the brain
> via mindfulness plus language in the broadest sense (representation,
> expression, etc.).  These two would be the key to surviving and adapting to
> change, but would also need to be seriously considered as a core framework
> of the "adapted" or thriving state which connects as a complex system with
> the body-in-geography but is not identical to it.
>
> I could be totally wrong here on everything: my interpretation of Handke,
> the role of flesh and geography in the humanization of language and
> symbolic systems, and the role of meditation in the brain and art or truth
> and beauty.  However, I just wanted to write a bit about it.  It does seem
> to me that unless the blood and soil theories are incorrect or incomplete,
> we will have a lot of trouble getting through the current era of
> nationalist populism, and arguably no chance at all.  If there are
> alternative or additional methods of resilience and adaptation we could use
> but choose not to that might be an unnecessary loss, one potentially
> leading to additional unnecessary losses.  The risk of attempting them
> seems minimal, but that could also be a wrong perception on my part.
>
> Apologies for errors in this email, I'm certain there are very many.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Max
>
> --
> *From:* NetBehaviour  on
> behalf of Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour  >
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 10, 2019 2:08 PM
> *To:* NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org>
> *Cc:* Ana Valdés 
> *Subject:* Re: [NetBehaviour] Nobel prize for Handke
>
> Handke is one of the most interesting writers in post war Germanspeaking
> world. He worked with Wim Wenders in the fillm Himmel over Berlin. But in
> the latest years he has developed to a controversial writer, supporting the
> Serb warcriminal Slovobodan Milosevic and writing books and articles
> describing Serbia as an offer in the war.
> A brilliant writer but a political idiot.
> Ana
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 2:10 PM Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
> netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have thoughts on this?
>
> I had never heard of Handke but am interested to read some now.
>
> His play "Kaspar" has some interesting themes it appears.
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Nobel prize for Handke

[Ana Valdés via NetBehaviour]

Handke is one of the most interesting writers in post war Germanspeaking
world. He worked with Wim Wenders in the fillm Himmel over Berlin. But in
the latest years he has developed to a controversial writer, supporting the
Serb warcriminal Slovobodan Milosevic and writing books and articles
describing Serbia as an offer in the war.
A brilliant writer but a political idiot.
Ana

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 2:10 PM Max Herman via NetBehaviour <
netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:

>
> Does anyone have thoughts on this?
>
> I had never heard of Handke but am interested to read some now.
>
> His play "Kaspar" has some interesting themes it appears.
>
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>


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