[No Thirst Software] Re: Money left in account, but no cash available for flowing?
Good thinking, Drew. In fact, it's excellent thinking. Thanks, stuff just suddenly clicked into place here! :D I do believe you solved my problem. I kinda had the nagging feeling that assigning account transfers to an income bucket felt wrong somehow, yet I couldn't quite explain to myself how. You just did. :) With a new paycheck coming this friday, I now feel confident that I'll be able to get it right this time. ;) On 9 Jun, 05:38, Druzyne drew.k...@gmail.com wrote: What I basically did, was transfer an amount of money equal to what was overspent in my expense buckets from my savings account, registering this in an income bucket. I allocated the money to the expense buckets, and then transferred all of the money back to the savings account. I basically conjured up spendable money out of nothing. :S I'm confident that the fault lies with my bookkeeping and not with me actually overspending, but I'm still interested in finding out where my logic fails here. The one thing I've done that I'm unsure of, is this: every month, I transfer a fixed amount of money into my savings account, assigning it to the Savings expense bucket. However, this month I had to pull some money out of the savings account due to unforeseen expenses (that's what the savings account is there for after all). I transferred money from the savings account into the spending account assigning this transaction to the Emergency dip into savings income bucket, allocated the required amount of money to the Unforeseen expenses expense bucket and payed off the expense, registering this with the same expense bucket. Is this the right way to go about such a use of savings money? Henrik, I'm not sure if this will correct your issue, but there's a different way I handle having to pull out of savings. When transferring the money into your spending account, I would have assigned the deposit to your Savings bucket, thereby negating what you spent by moving into savings earlier. Then, the money that is in your Savings bucket you can flow to the expense bucket where it is needed. I may be wrong, but when you assigned the transfer back to your spending account to an income bucket, it was like printing yourself another paycheck, which might have thrown things off. It's better to look at this type of transaction as unspending on Savings, rather than as income. //Drew --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: Allocating Income, I had to do 12 times
Michael, If I understand you correctly, I think that you would want to set the allocation for 1st Half. This will ensure that when you want to allocate on the 1st of the month, all your money will be allocated in the 1st half (which is the half that you're in on the 1st of the month). I hope this makes sense. If you were to select second half on all of your buckets, they would not be allocated unless you selected Allocate Income sometime during the second half of the month. Grace to you, Blair On Jun 8, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Jason wrote: Thanks everybody for the helpful responses! On Jun 8, 6:09 am, bazcurtis bazm...@bazmac.co.uk wrote: Hi all, This is what I was trying to achieve, just for clarity. All my direct debits come out of Moneywell on the 1st of the month. I am paid on the first on the month. I want to fill my buckets in one go at that time. From what I am reading I need to set the allocate income to the 2nd half of the month and all will be well. Looking forward to next month :-) Best wishes Michael On Jun 8, 3:13 am, Druzyne drew.k...@gmail.com wrote: Jason, I just wanted to make sure you understand that the Timing of an allocation is specified in two places: once on your Spending Plan, where you specify First Half/Second Half/All Month for each bucket; and second on the Allocate Income panel (after you click the Allocate Income icon) where you specify that the allocation is for the First Half or Second Half of the month. The setting on the Allocate Income panel seems to adjust automatically based on the current date, but it can be changed. So, for those like myself who are paid once a month, and want to allocate once a month, we must specifically choose a Second Half allocation on the first of a month for all of our income to be allocated (since it's already there). I believe this was what Michael was trying to achieve. You really should try to see a difference between the timing of a bucket, and the priority of a bucket. Priority means deciding that if there are limited funds, the electric bill should always win out against a vacation fund. This setting is best for those that have variable or unpredictable income. Timing means that if you're paid bi- weekly or semi-monthly, you can hold off on allocating to your electricity bucket until the second paycheck, because the bill is due at the end of the month. These settings have different purposes for different situations. I'm glad, however, that Kevin shared how priority figures into timing and allocation. For those that allocate twice a month, it shows how beneficial it would be to always set the timing of low-priority buckets to Second Half (in the Spending Plan). It's not a big deal, though, since you can always flow money out of low-priority buckets. //Drew --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: Money left in account, but no cash available for flowing?
Wow... I can't tell you how much I appreciate you putting all that effort into such an excellent and informative post. Things are, very much, crystal clear now. Your setup is conceptually similar to what I was trying to achieve, but I got confused by all the buckets and I most certainly violated some of the rules you stipulated. I know for certain that I on at least one occasion transferred money from below the line to above the line without assigning the transaction to any buckets. Too late to fix now, what with all the juggling I performed in order to align things again (I wouldn't know where to even begin to undo it all), but now that everything's aligned I'll most definitely keep this in mind going forward. So, once again, thanks! :D On 9 Jun, 13:13, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com wrote: There must be something else going on here Adding money to a savings expense bucket has the same net effect as adding money to an income bucket. Look at this way... I could unspend Savings and put the money back into the Savings bucket that I took out. Or I could put the money into an income bucket and then move it to the Savings bucket--either way has the same net effect. Here's another area where the problem may lie. There are two sides to each transfer--the withdrawal, and the deposit. In MoneyWell, it is possible to assign either side of the transfer (or even both sides) to a bucket. While each transfer presents three options for assigning the transfer to a bucket (withdrawal side, deposit side, and both sides), these three options do not produce the same results. Let me try to step through the process that you should be using to track your Savings: When Allocating Income each month, you should be assigning money to your Savings bucket. This bucket represents the amount of money that you plan to transfer into your Savings account. When you are ready to transfer funds from checking to savings, you'll create a transfer from Checking to Savings, assigning the withdrawal side of the transfer to your Savings bucket. At this point, your Savings bucket should be at 0 (you don't have any more money to transfer to Savings) If you need to use money from Savings, you'll transfer the money from your Savings account back into Checking, assigning the deposit side of the transfer to a bucket. There are merits to using income buckets or expense buckets, but the choice is up to you. Using an income bucket allows you to use the Allocate Income feature to disburse the money to expense buckets. Here's how I set up my MoneyWell document in order to keep all this stuff straight: First, I decide how much cash I have on hand to fund my spending plan. Some people might prefer to include Savings accounts balances in this formula, others may not. You would also include the balance on certain kinds of credit cards. Any credit card that you use on a recurring basis each month, paying the balance each month should be included in this formula as well. I refer to these as Spending Plan Accounts. I might also refer to it as cash on hand/cash available. Second, I decide how many other accounts I want to track in MoneyWell. This could include additional Savings accounts, money market accounts, credit cards (accounts I don't pay off each month), auto loan balances, retirement accounts, home mortgage, etc. These accounts affect my net worth and are of enough concern to me to track on a monthly basis, but they do not contribute to the money that I have on an on-going basis to pay for groceries and other monthly expenses. I'll set up the MoneyWell document like this: Spending Plan Accounts - Other Accounts Note: The -- above is an account that I use as a divider between the two types of accounts that I simply provide the name of multiple dashes. Setting up MoneyWell in this way provides a quick reminder to me how I should assign to transfers to buckets. There are three rules to follow: When transferring funds on the same side of the line, do not assign the money to a bucket on either side of the transfer When a transfer crosses the line in a downward direction (from a Spending Plan Account to an Other Account), assign the withdrawal side of the transaction to an bucket. This money is treated as though it is being spent by your cash available on your other other accounts When a transfer crosses the line in the upward direction (from an Other Account to your Spending Plan Account), assign only the deposit side of the transfer to a bucket. This money is being treated as income from your other accounts into your cash available. There are two rules for spending money: When spending or depositing money from/to an account that is above the
[No Thirst Software] Re: Allocating Income, I had to do 12 times
Hi Bill, I would have thought the same, but Kevin and Drew are saying that as the buckets are set to all month, the setting should be the second half. I will try next month. I have no more money to allocate :-( Best wishes Michael On Jun 9, 11:14 am, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com wrote: Michael, If I understand you correctly, I think that you would want to set the allocation for 1st Half. This will ensure that when you want to allocate on the 1st of the month, all your money will be allocated in the 1st half (which is the half that you're in on the 1st of the month). I hope this makes sense. If you were to select second half on all of your buckets, they would not be allocated unless you selected Allocate Income sometime during the second half of the month. Grace to you, Blair On Jun 8, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Jason wrote: Thanks everybody for the helpful responses! On Jun 8, 6:09 am, bazcurtis bazm...@bazmac.co.uk wrote: Hi all, This is what I was trying to achieve, just for clarity. All my direct debits come out of Moneywell on the 1st of the month. I am paid on the first on the month. I want to fill my buckets in one go at that time. From what I am reading I need to set the allocate income to the 2nd half of the month and all will be well. Looking forward to next month :-) Best wishes Michael On Jun 8, 3:13 am, Druzyne drew.k...@gmail.com wrote: Jason, I just wanted to make sure you understand that the Timing of an allocation is specified in two places: once on your Spending Plan, where you specify First Half/Second Half/All Month for each bucket; and second on the Allocate Income panel (after you click the Allocate Income icon) where you specify that the allocation is for the First Half or Second Half of the month. The setting on the Allocate Income panel seems to adjust automatically based on the current date, but it can be changed. So, for those like myself who are paid once a month, and want to allocate once a month, we must specifically choose a Second Half allocation on the first of a month for all of our income to be allocated (since it's already there). I believe this was what Michael was trying to achieve. You really should try to see a difference between the timing of a bucket, and the priority of a bucket. Priority means deciding that if there are limited funds, the electric bill should always win out against a vacation fund. This setting is best for those that have variable or unpredictable income. Timing means that if you're paid bi- weekly or semi-monthly, you can hold off on allocating to your electricity bucket until the second paycheck, because the bill is due at the end of the month. These settings have different purposes for different situations. I'm glad, however, that Kevin shared how priority figures into timing and allocation. For those that allocate twice a month, it shows how beneficial it would be to always set the timing of low-priority buckets to Second Half (in the Spending Plan). It's not a big deal, though, since you can always flow money out of low-priority buckets. //Drew --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Credit Card Buckets for Finance Charges???
Hello! I am wondering what everyone does for their finance charges. Do you put them in a bucket or not? Technically, you wouldn't have to b/c you are paying the charge and the payment at the same time. But I could see the other side too. What is the gist? Thanks! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: Credit Card Buckets for Finance Charges???
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Daveoneblessed...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! I am wondering what everyone does for their finance charges. Do you put them in a bucket or not? Technically, you wouldn't have to b/c you are paying the charge and the payment at the same time. But I could see the other side too. What is the gist? I don't track my credit cards, but I do get monthly bank charges on my checking account, and I charge those against a Bank Charges bucket. As for finance charges, they do technically affect your credit card balance, so not all your payment goes against the principal. It would be hard to split out the charge every month. To keep your card balance in line, you could create that finance charge transaction and mark the transaction Bucket Optional. Others may have better ideas. Patrick --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: Credit Card Buckets for Finance Charges???
Hi Dave... I have a Bank Fees bucket for all fees charged by the banks including credit cards. I'm not sure why--they just make me mad. :-) Karen On 9-Jun-09, at 6:59 PM, Dave wrote: Hello! I am wondering what everyone does for their finance charges. Do you put them in a bucket or not? Technically, you wouldn't have to b/c you are paying the charge and the payment at the same time. But I could see the other side too. What is the gist? Thanks! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] News on MoneyWell for iPhone?
Since the release date for the iPhone 3.0 software has been announced (June 17th), is there any new news regarding when MoneyWell for iPhone will be released (or at least submitted to Apple for approval)? Thanks! Dan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: Money left in account, but no cash available for flowing?
No problem... another way to summarize all the rules would be: Always assign deposits/withdrawals in accounts that are above the line to a bucket. Never assign deposits/withdrawals in accounts that are below the line to buckets. This general rule would apply whether the transaction is a part of a transfer or simple debit or credit. Grace to you, Blair Watkinson On Jun 9, 2009, at 8:00 AM, HenrikWL wrote: Wow... I can't tell you how much I appreciate you putting all that effort into such an excellent and informative post. Things are, very much, crystal clear now. Your setup is conceptually similar to what I was trying to achieve, but I got confused by all the buckets and I most certainly violated some of the rules you stipulated. I know for certain that I on at least one occasion transferred money from below the line to above the line without assigning the transaction to any buckets. Too late to fix now, what with all the juggling I performed in order to align things again (I wouldn't know where to even begin to undo it all), but now that everything's aligned I'll most definitely keep this in mind going forward. So, once again, thanks! :D On 9 Jun, 13:13, The Watkinson Family thewatkins...@mac.com wrote: There must be something else going on here Adding money to a savings expense bucket has the same net effect as adding money to an income bucket. Look at this way... I could unspend Savings and put the money back into the Savings bucket that I took out. Or I could put the money into an income bucket and then move it to the Savings bucket--either way has the same net effect. Here's another area where the problem may lie. There are two sides to each transfer--the withdrawal, and the deposit. In MoneyWell, it is possible to assign either side of the transfer (or even both sides) to a bucket. While each transfer presents three options for assigning the transfer to a bucket (withdrawal side, deposit side, and both sides), these three options do not produce the same results. Let me try to step through the process that you should be using to track your Savings: When Allocating Income each month, you should be assigning money to your Savings bucket. This bucket represents the amount of money that you plan to transfer into your Savings account. When you are ready to transfer funds from checking to savings, you'll create a transfer from Checking to Savings, assigning the withdrawal side of the transfer to your Savings bucket. At this point, your Savings bucket should be at 0 (you don't have any more money to transfer to Savings) If you need to use money from Savings, you'll transfer the money from your Savings account back into Checking, assigning the deposit side of the transfer to a bucket. There are merits to using income buckets or expense buckets, but the choice is up to you. Using an income bucket allows you to use the Allocate Income feature to disburse the money to expense buckets. Here's how I set up my MoneyWell document in order to keep all this stuff straight: First, I decide how much cash I have on hand to fund my spending plan. Some people might prefer to include Savings accounts balances in this formula, others may not. You would also include the balance on certain kinds of credit cards. Any credit card that you use on a recurring basis each month, paying the balance each month should be included in this formula as well. I refer to these as Spending Plan Accounts. I might also refer to it as cash on hand/cash available. Second, I decide how many other accounts I want to track in MoneyWell. This could include additional Savings accounts, money market accounts, credit cards (accounts I don't pay off each month), auto loan balances, retirement accounts, home mortgage, etc. These accounts affect my net worth and are of enough concern to me to track on a monthly basis, but they do not contribute to the money that I have on an on-going basis to pay for groceries and other monthly expenses. I'll set up the MoneyWell document like this: Spending Plan Accounts - Other Accounts Note: The -- above is an account that I use as a divider between the two types of accounts that I simply provide the name of multiple dashes. Setting up MoneyWell in this way provides a quick reminder to me how I should assign to transfers to buckets. There are three rules to follow: When transferring funds on the same side of the line, do not assign the money to a bucket on either side of the transfer When a transfer crosses the line in a downward direction (from a Spending Plan Account to an Other Account), assign the withdrawal side of the transaction to an bucket. This money is treated as though it is being spent by your cash available on your other other accounts When a
[No Thirst Software] Re: Buckets track all accounts, or just checking account?
Daniel, You would select which accounts to use for buckets based on their type. Those accounts that provide money to you to spend on a monthly basis should be included in the bucket system. These accounts would include: Checking accounts Cash accounts As far as credit cards are concerned, some you might include, and some you might not include. If the card you use is used for your spending throughout the month, and you pay off the card each month, you would include the credit card in your bucket system. If it's a card you don't use anymore and that you're paying off over time, you would not include this card in your bucket system. I do not personally recommend having a hybrid card which you continue to use but are not paying off the balance. Using the bucket system to track the expenses on this card can get complicated. However, it is doable, and if this is your situation, let me know. As far as savings and money market accounts go, some people include them, and some do not. To explain the advantages/disadvantages of each approach requires me to back up just a little bit. Using the bucket system assures you that when you make a purchase and do not exceed the bucket amount for the category purchase you are making that you actually have the money to spend on that purchase. This guarantee is different that just checking the account balance to see if you have money in the account before buying something, because having money in an account is not guarantee that it is available--it may be needed for insurance, mortgage payments, bills, or groceries later that month. Using the bucket/envelope system allows you take all the cash you have on hand (including money in certain kinds of accounts) and dedicate it toward certain kinds of purchases. If you don't exceed the bucket amount, you can be assured that the money is available for that type of purchase without encroaching on other planned expenses. What the bucket system does not guarantee, however, is that you actually have money in a given account. Because you are combining your cash accounts and your checking account, and perhaps others, as well, it could be the case that the bucket money is not actually in the account you're spending from. Let me provide a simple, but absurd example. Cash: $5000 Checking: $50 The total money you have available is $5050, which you can distribute between your buckets. Suppose you decide to allocate $500 in groceries. As you can see, this money is not actually in your checking account, and if you were to pay using your debit card, you would over draw the account. While it is true that you have the money to pay for $500 worth of groceries this month, you do not actually have the money in a particular account. While this example borders on the absurd, you can see how adding multiple accounts can provide a practical example where you can't just look at bucket balances, but you would also need to be aware of or check your account balance before making a purchase. So, back to why some people choose to include a Savings account in the bucket system and others do not. First, the case for/against including the Savings account in your bucket system. When you include your savings accounts and money market accounts in your bucket system, you're able to track the money that is in the account with buckets. This setup avails itself to setting aside money that is for future or infrequent purchases where it can accrue a greater return rate than it can in a checking account. The case against this setup is that you do need to be aware of your checking account balance prior to spending money to be sure that you are not going to overdraw the checking account. It's possible that if you have multiple payments in December, including your insurance premium, Christmas presents, vehicle registration and taxes, etc, you could use a significant amount of money from checking and you would need to make a hefty transfer before finishing the month. Now, the case for/against not including your Savings account in your bucket totals. The case for should be pretty obvious. Typically, the bulk of the money in your buckets would be stored/saved in a single checking account if you don't include a savings account. Generally, if you don't run your balances to close, then you wouldn't need to concern yourself with the checking account balance before you made purchases. You would only need to know what the bucket balance is. Since spending less than your bucket balance guarantees you won't exceed the money you have available, and since most of the money you have available is in your checking account, it follows that you probably won't exceed your checking account balance when you make a purchase that doesn't exceed the bucket balance. The case against this type of account is that it is difficult to use the
[No Thirst Software] Re: News on MoneyWell for iPhone?
I was just thinking the same thing. How about a preview video or some screenshots? On Jun 9, 3:20 pm, Daniel skyvoy...@gmail.com wrote: Since the release date for the iPhone 3.0 software has been announced (June 17th), is there any new news regarding when MoneyWell for iPhone will be released (or at least submitted to Apple for approval)? Thanks! Dan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: Allocating Income, I had to do 12 times
If you were to select second half on all of your buckets, they would not be allocated unless you selected Allocate Income sometime during the second half of the month. To clarify, you in fact can select a second-half allocation during the first half of the month (on the Allocate Income panel). However, changing all of your buckets to First Half allocation would take advantage of automatic behavior. I would have thought the same, but Kevin and Drew are saying that as the buckets are set to all month, the setting should be the second half. I will try next month. I have no more money to allocate :-( Both approaches are valid. However, I prefer to consider the timing of buckets and of allocation separately, much as the program does. Besides forcing a deliberate consideration of my buckets, this offers me a degree of flexibility. At any time, I could seamlessly transition to allocating twice a month. If, for example, I were to change to a job that paid semi-monthly, then there would be no need to change the timing of buckets, as I had already set those to a mix of first/second/ all. //Drew --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
