[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
ok so turning that off (also) changes the buckets completely. sorry i dont agree w that methodology - whether or not the total is shown - the money allocation remains the same... but if i show totals rather than breakdown amounts it assigns the money wrong. (i am referring to the 'unhiden' optional of hide vs show split totals...the hidden option is off already) 3 buckets - 100, 30, 50 - total amount of cheque is 180 if i show totals - 180 goes to fuel - rest of buckets are blank if i turn off show totals - 100 fuel, 50 cable, 30 internet I have verified this - i selected the fuel bucket - w/ show split total selected - it shows 180 in the fuel w/ Hide split totals in effect - fuel bucket shows 100. sorry but i think regardless of 'view' data should not change - 'view' is a view - not a movement of funds from one bucket to another... i sent you screen shots. mary lou v 1.4.2. (217) On Jan 24, 10:04 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: Mary Lou, Make sure you turn off the Show Split Totals option in the View menu (don't hold the Option key down to see this command). If you have screenshots to share, please send then to my private address, ke...@nothirst.com. Thanks. Peace, Kevin Hoctor No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2009, at 7:06 AM, ciara belle ciaraswe...@gmail.com wrote: ok i understand what your saying about the hidden children view - i guess i never used quicken that way -- i used the categories once a month for a work expense report, and once a year or so for taxes / reviewing my budget... i can adapt (i swear *wink) - i liked how uncluttered the hidden view was. (still dont get the point of the amount - but i am giving up :) ) - the issue remains with the splits even after i unhide them... i am not comfortable sending my document... but i can send screen shots. (total amount goes to parent split, the two other splits show empty... (they show now but greyed out). mary lou (ciara) On Jan 23, 8:47 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:35 AM, ciara belle wrote: Thank you Blair - i do understand that is how it is designed.. however i stand firm in that i feel its incorrect in its design - in that if i click on a split transaction - than the info above should change. The split transactions will get a new entry panel in 2.0 but this view will probably stay the same because the split child list is actually a sub-list to the transaction shown and not a parent list for the transactions in it. I always keep my register view hiding splits (just showing total of transaction) - because in the long run - that is the AMOUNT i am out.. the split is moot. therefore - i never see the child / parent relationship - and really dont think i need to as a user of the app. Hopefully, these concerns will be addressed in 1.5 And by doing this you are ruining the concept of an envelope budgeting system. Let me explain it this way: What do you see when you run a category report or drill down in a pie chart in Quicken? Do you see the total transaction amount or the individual split amounts? You see the latter because that correct for the report you are viewing. Now in MoneyWell, you don't need to run a report just to see your category (bucket) breakdown. The main view *IS* the report and it's always updated and one click away from giving you this information. The only reason that most of us need to see the transaction total instead of the individual split amounts is when we are comparing to a bank statement during the reconcile process and MoneyWell automatically switches your view in that case. This will not change in 1.5 or 2.0 because it would ruin the core design of MoneyWell. It's meant to be a very interactive financial tool and replace the old budget cycle of plan-spend-report-review with a more proactive plan-review-spend process. I also have other transactions that are properly split (i started another thread a week ago and i am still awaiting response) but for some reason only 1 of the splits shows up in buckets.. (they are all assigned buckets)... and its assigning the Total of the whole transaction to that parent split bucket -rather than the parent split amount. This last issue i NEED fixed as its messing up the bucket allocations.. If you are hiding the split children, then you will have a problem like you describe. That's why this view option is so hidden, I only put it in MoneyWell as a if you insist on seeing the list this way type view. I don't recommend using it consistently. If turning off this view option doesn't fix this problem, then please send your MoneyWell document to ke...@nothirst.com with a description of exactly what transaction is not showing up correctly and I'll review it. Thanks. Peace, Kevin Hoctor
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
On Jan 25, 2009, at 6:05 AM, ciara belle wrote: ok so turning that off (also) changes the buckets completely. sorry i dont agree w that methodology - whether or not the total is shown - the money allocation remains the same... but if i show totals rather than breakdown amounts it assigns the money wrong. (i am referring to the 'unhiden' optional of hide vs show split totals...the hidden option is off already) 3 buckets - 100, 30, 50 - total amount of cheque is 180 if i show totals - 180 goes to fuel - rest of buckets are blank if i turn off show totals - 100 fuel, 50 cable, 30 internet I have verified this - i selected the fuel bucket - w/ show split total selected - it shows 180 in the fuel w/ Hide split totals in effect - fuel bucket shows 100. sorry but i think regardless of 'view' data should not change - 'view' is a view - not a movement of funds from one bucket to another... i sent you screen shots. Mary Lou, You are correct. This other view should not affect the buckets total and I'll make sure that is changed in the next release. Thanks. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLC http://nothirst.com http://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
awesome - thanks :) mary lou On Jan 25, 9:49 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: On Jan 25, 2009, at 6:05 AM, ciara belle wrote: ok so turning that off (also) changes the buckets completely. sorry i dont agree w that methodology - whether or not the total is shown - the money allocation remains the same... but if i show totals rather than breakdown amounts it assigns the money wrong. (i am referring to the 'unhiden' optional of hide vs show split totals...the hidden option is off already) 3 buckets - 100, 30, 50 - total amount of cheque is 180 if i show totals - 180 goes to fuel - rest of buckets are blank if i turn off show totals - 100 fuel, 50 cable, 30 internet I have verified this - i selected the fuel bucket - w/ show split total selected - it shows 180 in the fuel w/ Hide split totals in effect - fuel bucket shows 100. sorry but i think regardless of 'view' data should not change - 'view' is a view - not a movement of funds from one bucket to another... i sent you screen shots. Mary Lou, You are correct. This other view should not affect the buckets total and I'll make sure that is changed in the next release. Thanks. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
Mary Lou, Make sure you turn off the Show Split Totals option in the View menu (don't hold the Option key down to see this command). If you have screenshots to share, please send then to my private address, ke...@nothirst.com. Thanks. Peace, Kevin Hoctor No Thirst Software LLC http://nothirst.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 24, 2009, at 7:06 AM, ciara belle ciaraswe...@gmail.com wrote: ok i understand what your saying about the hidden children view - i guess i never used quicken that way -- i used the categories once a month for a work expense report, and once a year or so for taxes / reviewing my budget... i can adapt (i swear *wink) - i liked how uncluttered the hidden view was. (still dont get the point of the amount - but i am giving up :) ) - the issue remains with the splits even after i unhide them... i am not comfortable sending my document... but i can send screen shots. (total amount goes to parent split, the two other splits show empty... (they show now but greyed out). mary lou (ciara) On Jan 23, 8:47 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:35 AM, ciara belle wrote: Thank you Blair - i do understand that is how it is designed.. however i stand firm in that i feel its incorrect in its design - in that if i click on a split transaction - than the info above should change. The split transactions will get a new entry panel in 2.0 but this view will probably stay the same because the split child list is actually a sub-list to the transaction shown and not a parent list for the transactions in it. I always keep my register view hiding splits (just showing total of transaction) - because in the long run - that is the AMOUNT i am out.. the split is moot. therefore - i never see the child / parent relationship - and really dont think i need to as a user of the app. Hopefully, these concerns will be addressed in 1.5 And by doing this you are ruining the concept of an envelope budgeting system. Let me explain it this way: What do you see when you run a category report or drill down in a pie chart in Quicken? Do you see the total transaction amount or the individual split amounts? You see the latter because that correct for the report you are viewing. Now in MoneyWell, you don't need to run a report just to see your category (bucket) breakdown. The main view *IS* the report and it's always updated and one click away from giving you this information. The only reason that most of us need to see the transaction total instead of the individual split amounts is when we are comparing to a bank statement during the reconcile process and MoneyWell automatically switches your view in that case. This will not change in 1.5 or 2.0 because it would ruin the core design of MoneyWell. It's meant to be a very interactive financial tool and replace the old budget cycle of plan-spend-report-review with a more proactive plan-review-spend process. I also have other transactions that are properly split (i started another thread a week ago and i am still awaiting response) but for some reason only 1 of the splits shows up in buckets.. (they are all assigned buckets)... and its assigning the Total of the whole transaction to that parent split bucket -rather than the parent split amount. This last issue i NEED fixed as its messing up the bucket allocations.. If you are hiding the split children, then you will have a problem like you describe. That's why this view option is so hidden, I only put it in MoneyWell as a if you insist on seeing the list this way type view. I don't recommend using it consistently. If turning off this view option doesn't fix this problem, then please send your MoneyWell document to ke...@nothirst.com with a description of exactly what transaction is not showing up correctly and I'll review it. Thanks. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp:// kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
Ciara, I thought I'd add an alternative explanation that may maximize your use of MoneyWell's split transaction feature. When you create a split, in the split detail area, called Split Transaction on the MoneyWell panel, and you've referred to as transaction screen, Kevin is explaining that the first split item will be called the Split Parent. All other split items are split children (although no reference to children exists in the program--I'm using that for discussion sake here). Now in the Transactions panel, in the center of the screen, you are correct in stating that the split order appears random--the Split Parent item can be anywhere among the split transactions, sometimes, splits even overlap. However, the Split Parent is always the first item when you were initially creating the split in the split detail panel. Kevin has said that he will fix the orders of the splits in 1.5. Presumably, the Split Parent will always be listed first followed by its respective children after this update in the Transaction panel. There are two ways to view splits in the main Transaction panel: Hide Split Transaction Totals Show Split Transaction Totals In either view, the split parent is always the one with the transaction status showing next to it (Open, Cleared, Reconciled, or Pending). The children will have have three lines next to it, indicating that it is a split child. When you select a split child, you can click a button over in the Split Transaction detail area that will take you to the Split Parent--this will show you how the money is divided. When you hide split transaction totals, each transaction that is part of the split shows the individual amount allocated to the split--even the parent shows it's split amount, which is less than the total transaction amount. When you show split transaction totals, only the parent shows an amount in the Transaction panel, and it is the total amount of the transaction. To see the individual split amounts, you would need to click on each split transaction. Now, your final concern was changing the information in the splits. Like you have observed, when you select different split items in the Split Transaction area, it does not change the information at the top of the Transaction Detail. The Transaction Detail always shows the information from the split parent. The easiest way to change the buckets for an individual split item is to select the split child in the Transactions panel in the main part of the screen, rather than in the Split Transaction area. I would caution, you, though, not to change the amount in this way, though, because there appears to be a bug which allows you to change a split child amount, and the transaction total doesn't change. Neither is there an additional transaction added to account for the difference you've created. In other words, the sum of the split items doesn't equal the total transaction amount. It appears that after reopening the document, the split transaction corrects itself and adds a split transaction to cover the difference--leaving you wondering why an unexplained, unallocated transaction is all of a sudden showing up in your document. Instead, if you must change a split item amount, change it in the Split Transaction area, not by selecting the split child. I hope this helps--if something requires more clarity, let me know! Grace to you, Blair On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:22 AM, ciara belle wrote: i understand what your saying - but its not the case... perhaps its not working properly.. but in some transactions it chooses the first split to display... in others it chooses the last... others again the middle... so it seems random to me... Not sure what your saying about the parent - i will take your word for it - but i personally don't think the feature is very useful if you cant change the items viewed by selecting another split item. As i said i think we need a way to see more detail on the splits - as the transaction screen is not wide enough to see all the info. thanks ciara On Jan 19, 7:48 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: The amount is not picked at random. If you see the split table then this is the split parent and also the first split line. The selection in the split table cannot drive the upper entries or it would also take you off the parent. The split children can be selected in the Transaction list to the left. Peace, Kevin Hoctor No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 19, 2009, at 6:02 AM, ciara belle ciaraswe...@gmail.com wrote: there are two marked total -- split total - which i understand completely... and the total closer to the top of the screen.. which is actually to correct myself (sigh) called Amount.. That amount field is easily understood when there are no splits.. however when there ARE splits.. the amount
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
there are two marked total -- split total - which i understand completely... and the total closer to the top of the screen.. which is actually to correct myself (sigh) called Amount.. That amount field is easily understood when there are no splits.. however when there ARE splits.. the amount picks a Split line at Random.. and displays that... If you select ANOTHER split line in the transacation - NONE of the items above change (amount, bucket, memo..) - which i would have expected to change when selecting a different split line... Since screen realestate is so small on the split area - many times you cannot see the whole bucket, memo, amount in the split area - i thought that the upper transaction area should change ... Also - on the Main Register -- when the transaction is Split -- it shows the SAME bucket was in the randomly chosen split line (for amount at the top)... what it should say is SPLIT or some such.. to alert you that you have to examine that transaction more closely for details. (i apolgoize for getting the terms mixed up earlier.. not enough sugar i guess :)) Basically i have a 180 transaction ON the register it should show - Payee, SPLIT (bucket) Memo - and Total of all splits (i am in total view) it shows - Payee - Random bucket chosen from splits, total amount of all splits On the transaction side Should show Total 180 (bottom half) - does Payee Bucket - should change w/ chosen split line - doesnt Memo - should change w/ chosen split line - doesnt Amount ALWAYS shows a randomly chosen split amount (not the first - as in this case its the middle split item) hard to show you in words - cant seem to attach a screen shot in googlegroups here. thanks ciara On Jan 18, 9:34 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: Now you have me confused. I thought the total we were discussing was the split total. Let's start over, what's the other total you are asking about? Peace, Kevin Hoctor No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 18, 2009, at 8:08 AM, ciara belle ciaraswe...@gmail.com wrote: sorry i just dont get it - -what is the purpose of the total? I understand the split total (this one makes perfect sense to me).. but i dont see the point of the other total... since it doesnt seem to total anything. (at least when there is a split involved..) ciara On Jan 17, 7:54 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: The split total is the total of the transaction (what appears on your statement) but is entered first. The split children amounts are split from the total instead of the other way around. Peace, Kevin Hoctor No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.com Sent from my iPhone On Jan 17, 2009, at 6:33 AM, ciara belle ciaraswe...@gmail.com wrote: sorry no-- i don't get it - if the total doesn't represent splits.. and doesn't represent the entire amount.. than what's the point of it? I would love to see the detail above change depending on the split chosen - if for no other reason than there is not enough real estate on the screen to show the entire split line (especially on a 15 macbook). - there doesn't seem to be a way to manually resize that side of the screen either. i still don't understand what the total is supposed to represent - since it neither represents the total of all splits, nor the total of one split... so what is it Total of? the standard definition of total is a sum of amounts or numbers... what does it sum? ciara On Jan 16, 10:09 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 8:01 AM, ciara belle wrote: if that is the case than changing to the next line down in the list of splits should change the 'total' box? -- however it does not... selecting the various items in the split transaction list does not change any item above... and it seems to pick one at random to show (for example right now on one transaction its showing the 3rd split... and will not show any other when i select) No, the total will never change unless you change it. Splits were designed to make quick entry of a split transaction: 1. Create a transaction for $200 and assign to Groceries bucket 2. Decide to make it a split, click Create Split 3. Change the first amount to $150 (because that actually what was spent on groceries) 4. Set the next line bucket to Education and change the amount to $30 (what we spent on supplies) 5. The remaining line is now at $20, which is our cash back so we check the cash only checkbox The idea was to avoid as much math as possible and just allow you to enter the amount you spent on each successive bucket and let MoneyWell set the new line to the remainder. It's rare that I wouldn't know the total but would only know the breakdowns and want to put those in to add up to a total. I hope this makes sense. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
sorry no-- i don't get it - if the total doesn't represent splits.. and doesn't represent the entire amount.. than what's the point of it? I would love to see the detail above change depending on the split chosen - if for no other reason than there is not enough real estate on the screen to show the entire split line (especially on a 15 macbook). - there doesn't seem to be a way to manually resize that side of the screen either. i still don't understand what the total is supposed to represent - since it neither represents the total of all splits, nor the total of one split... so what is it Total of? the standard definition of total is a sum of amounts or numbers... what does it sum? ciara On Jan 16, 10:09 am, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 8:01 AM, ciara belle wrote: if that is the case than changing to the next line down in the list of splits should change the 'total' box? -- however it does not... selecting the various items in the split transaction list does not change any item above... and it seems to pick one at random to show (for example right now on one transaction its showing the 3rd split... and will not show any other when i select) No, the total will never change unless you change it. Splits were designed to make quick entry of a split transaction: 1. Create a transaction for $200 and assign to Groceries bucket 2. Decide to make it a split, click Create Split 3. Change the first amount to $150 (because that actually what was spent on groceries) 4. Set the next line bucket to Education and change the amount to $30 (what we spent on supplies) 5. The remaining line is now at $20, which is our cash back so we check the cash only checkbox The idea was to avoid as much math as possible and just allow you to enter the amount you spent on each successive bucket and let MoneyWell set the new line to the remainder. It's rare that I wouldn't know the total but would only know the breakdowns and want to put those in to add up to a total. I hope this makes sense. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
if that is the case than changing to the next line down in the list of splits should change the 'total' box? -- however it does not... selecting the various items in the split transaction list does not change any item above... and it seems to pick one at random to show (for example right now on one transaction its showing the 3rd split... and will not show any other when i select) ciara 1.4.2 rc 217 On Jan 15, 5:40 pm, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com wrote: On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:04 AM, ciara belle wrote: i have a split transaction I just cant seem to wrap my brain around the transaction window.. on the register - the total of the split is there ... -236.98 However on the right side transaction details...total is - 118.95 -- which is the total of the first split i thought it was just showing detail of the split that was selected -- but when i select the next split in the list -- no change to any of the items above... please explain the difference between teh total and the amount... the way i read it i think the should be the same ... as yes the total splits -236.98 but so does the whole transaction -- so that should also be -236.98 i find it very confusing - maybe if i understood the rationale behind it i would understand these fields better. Once a transaction is broken up into a split, each transaction defaults to showing it's portion of the whole transaction. The total of the transaction stays in the split total so you know what it was originally. The focus is on the individual breakout amounts so you can see what is assigned to each bucket as you are viewing them on the transaction list. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLChttp://nothirst.comhttp://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
On Jan 16, 2009, at 8:01 AM, ciara belle wrote: if that is the case than changing to the next line down in the list of splits should change the 'total' box? -- however it does not... selecting the various items in the split transaction list does not change any item above... and it seems to pick one at random to show (for example right now on one transaction its showing the 3rd split... and will not show any other when i select) No, the total will never change unless you change it. Splits were designed to make quick entry of a split transaction: 1. Create a transaction for $200 and assign to Groceries bucket 2. Decide to make it a split, click Create Split 3. Change the first amount to $150 (because that actually what was spent on groceries) 4. Set the next line bucket to Education and change the amount to $30 (what we spent on supplies) 5. The remaining line is now at $20, which is our cash back so we check the cash only checkbox The idea was to avoid as much math as possible and just allow you to enter the amount you spent on each successive bucket and let MoneyWell set the new line to the remainder. It's rare that I wouldn't know the total but would only know the breakdowns and want to put those in to add up to a total. I hope this makes sense. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLC http://nothirst.com http://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[No Thirst Software] Re: please explain amount vs total
On Jan 15, 2009, at 11:04 AM, ciara belle wrote: i have a split transaction I just cant seem to wrap my brain around the transaction window.. on the register - the total of the split is there ... -236.98 However on the right side transaction details...total is - 118.95 -- which is the total of the first split i thought it was just showing detail of the split that was selected -- but when i select the next split in the list -- no change to any of the items above... please explain the difference between teh total and the amount... the way i read it i think the should be the same ... as yes the total splits -236.98 but so does the whole transaction -- so that should also be -236.98 i find it very confusing - maybe if i understood the rationale behind it i would understand these fields better. Once a transaction is broken up into a split, each transaction defaults to showing it's portion of the whole transaction. The total of the transaction stays in the split total so you know what it was originally. The focus is on the individual breakout amounts so you can see what is assigned to each bucket as you are viewing them on the transaction list. Peace, Kevin Hoctor ke...@nothirst.com No Thirst Software LLC http://nothirst.com http://kevinhoctor.blogspot.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups No Thirst Software User Forum group. To post to this group, send email to no-thirst-software@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to no-thirst-software+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/no-thirst-software?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
