[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Nice one John! c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Gibbons, John Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:50 PM To: Anthony Robb; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding drones or regulators. He also extols the beauty and effectiveness of playing parts of a piece on solo chanter only and then adding accompaniment be it drones or other instruments to lift the sound. On a slightly related topic, people have commented on how well in tune the 3 beginner pipers in Windy Gyle Band play on the CD and have suggested that some digital trickery might be involved. This is absolutely not the case. All three have learnt to play on chanter only and two of them are now (after 3 years) beginning to add drones occasionally. The drones can add excitement like nothing else to the pipes sound but they can also mask some of the music at times. So my message would be follow your ears, try all the options and go with what works for you. Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [[3]anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: [4]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [5]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, [6]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [7]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding drones or regulators. He also extols the beauty and effectiveness of playing parts of a piece on solo chanter only and then adding accompaniment be it drones or other instruments to lift the sound. On a slightly related topic, people have commented on how well in tune the 3 beginner pipers in Windy Gyle Band play on the CD and have suggested that some digital trickery might be involved. This is absolutely not the case. All three have learnt to play on chanter only and two of them are now (after 3 years) beginning to add drones occasionally. The drones can add excitement like nothing else to the pipes sound but they can also mask some of the music at times. So my message would be follow your ears, try all the options and go with what works for you. Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, [8]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [9]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at [1][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=anth...@robbpipes.com 4. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=...@cs.dartmouth.edu 5. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rob@milecastle27.co.uk 6. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rob@milecastle27.co.uk 7. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rob@milecastle27.co.uk 8.
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Hi Mike, You have the right man in Colin Dipper! A very Rolls Royce of concertina tuners, who 25 years ago rescued my lovely anglo from a botch job someone else had done, and has looked after it from time to time ever since. And on the other hand, you probably already know that unless there's a good reason for haste, it may be quite a wait before you see it again! (I've been lucky so far.) If you're considering getting rid of the bass notes, are these the buttons you're going to be hanging extra accidentals for the right hand on? It sounds as if you're playing both English Anglo systems already, but to my mind having right hand notes under the left fingers of an anglo would really be confusing... I find the anglo a very tactile thing, compared to the more technical logical approach of the English system, and for me it would upset the lines of treble and bass thinking which the fingers do almost by themselves. I'd want to be sure I was gaining more than I was losing. Before I got my anglo in the first place, someone had tried re-arranging the system, and given up half-way. Colin has too much experience for that, but I'd still want to be sure that the gain outweighed the loss. Best of luck, Richard On 06/01/2011 12:36, Mike Dixon wrote: Rob Thanks - Colin Dipper will be doing the work for me ( he has just tweaked and sold my English concertina for me which is funding this work!) so I will talk it through with him - I gather he has done similar work for other pipers I will also have a look at a second hand one as an option - I will have to do the sums! Could you expand on the 'care and sympathy' with the drones? Cheers Mike -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of rob@milecastle27.co.uk Sent: 06 January 2011 12:00 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Morning Mike - yes this correct. For a C/G anglo where you are typically playing tunes in G and D (and associated minors) you would want a Bb/F tuning to play with NSP. Unless you know the person you want to play with is in concert F then +20 would also be a very good idea. I have a Bb English concertina but it doesn't get out much because it's in concert pitch and too far from most sets of pipes. Personally I wouldn't get rid of the bass notes there's a lot of musical room to play in down there. It requires care and sympathy with the drones going ... Another consideration is that retuning a complete tone is quite invasive - it is possible to get a Bb/F instrument without modification. They are rarer but also cheap because no one else plays in those keys... I'd have a chat with some like Theo Gibb (www.theboxplace.co.uk) who will be able to give you some options - he has stacks of old lachenal reeds from various restorations. He also knows the basics about pipes - most free reed restoriers won't and has done an excellent restoration job on a couple of concertinas for me already. cheers Rob Quoting Mike Dixonmsdi...@btinternet.com: I have a 20 Button Anglo C/G Lachenal which I had for years which I have done very little with. I am about to get it serviced ( more like a re-build I suspect!) and am considering getting it re-tuned to play along with NSP - either for me to have a go , or to lend to a friend so we can do some duets Would I be on the right lines to go for F/B Flat? I suspect at +20 cents? We are also looking at removing the bass on the left hand and putting some accidentals on the right - might be useful as I rarely use the bass buttons as such Any thoughts or advice Thanks Mike Dixon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Please can John's advice be etched on metal plates, and nailed to all bodhrans ? ;-) [Cajons too] Richard, (among whose dearest friends was once a superb bodhran player. Just a few are out there.) On 07/01/2011 09:41, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Nice one John! c -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Gibbons, John Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:50 PM To: Anthony Robb; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding drones or regulators. He also extols the beauty and effectiveness of playing parts of a piece on solo chanter only and then adding accompaniment be it drones or other instruments to lift the sound. On a slightly related topic, people have commented on how well in tune the 3 beginner pipers in Windy Gyle Band play on the CD and have suggested that some digital trickery might be involved. This is absolutely not the case. All three have learnt to play on chanter only and two of them are now (after 3 years) beginning to add drones occasionally. The drones can add excitement like nothing else to the pipes sound but they can also mask some of the music at times. So my message would be follow your ears, try all the options and go with what works for you. Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [[3]anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: [4]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [5]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, [6]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [7]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding drones or regulators. He also extols the beauty and effectiveness of playing parts of a piece on solo chanter only and then adding accompaniment be it drones or other instruments to lift the sound. On a slightly related topic, people have commented on how well in tune the 3 beginner pipers in Windy Gyle Band play on the CD and have suggested that some digital trickery might be involved. This is absolutely not the case. All three have learnt to play on chanter only and two of them are now (after 3 years) beginning to add drones occasionally. The drones can add excitement like nothing else to the pipes sound but they can also mask some of the music at times. So my message would be follow your ears, try all the options and go with what works for you. Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, [8]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [9]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: To get on or off this list see list
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: [1][12]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2][13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [[3][14]anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: [4][15]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [5][16]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, [6][17]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [7][18]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach. cheers Rob Sorry to disagree, Rob, but occasionally switching the drones off to let other instruments provide the accompaniment can be lovely. I would also recommend learning and practising mainly on the chanter alone. It is the way I was taught and was the Colin Caisley way presumably passed on from Tom Clough. When Colin Caisley was chairman of the NPS in the 60s the Society hired out a 'goose' (bellows, bag and chanter only) for people to try out the pipes. Recently I came across an article, from the 70s I guess, written by Paddy Maloney who suggests uillean pipers should learn on a 'goose' for 3 to 4 years before thinking about getting drones. The premise being that the chanter is where the music is created and so needs to be learnt before adding
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. I was starting to wonder whether I was the only person to have noticed this! It's my personal opinion that playing in tune (and in time) should be the prime consideration in all music-making. Only when these parameters are secure can one realistically move on to higher things. C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Drone Tuning
Anthony, Certainly adding drones on the 2nd time through, works well on UP, especially on airs. Irish slow airs, being usually vocal music rather than pipe music, maybe don't require a drone so fundamentally. Musically this idea makes less sense on drone music though - double-tonic tunes etc. But with NSP, it is rare to have an on-off drone key, so it is hard for us to do in practice. As for drones being out of tune on recordings - as I said, it is the effect on the listener which matters. I can think of an otherwise excellent recording where the drones were badly out in places, so I know what you mean. But shutting them off is a cop-out, not a solution. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 10:52 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John From: [1][12]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[2][13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb [[3][14]anth...@robbpipes.com] Sent: 06 January 2011 18:19 To: [4][15]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [5][16]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning --- On Thu, 6/1/11, [6][17]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [7][18]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote: It's a case of trying and seeing what you like. The other way round this would be for the piper not to play drones ... but I wouldn't recommend that approach.
[NSP] Re: Drone Tuning
Hello John In reverse order, switching off drones is certainly a cop out if the player is capable of tuning up properly in the first place otherwise it seems fairly sensible to keep them off (in public at least) until that stage is reached. I'm particularly thinking of the 'drones at all costs' approach regardless of whether players are capable of getting them in tune to start with and then holding them in tune for the duration of the piece. Re UP music after my last email I went to my album collection to see if other respected Uillean pipers had the same approach to Paddy M. and listened to one of my all time favourites, Doublin' by Keenan and Glackin. Paddy K. not only uses the drones off technique on slower tunes but also on reels such asThe Old Bush and the Boyne Hunt. The hornpipe set Plains of Boyle and Cronin's and the jig set My Darling Asleep and Garrett Barry's Jig are performed entirely without drones and the interplay between chanter and fiddle is sheer magic for me. The way WGB tackles the drones on during a piece is to start on a droneless set and then bring in a set with drones. As I realise not every one's cup of tea but it butters my parsnip and, of course, there has to be at least two of you. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone Tuning To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 12:11 Anthony, Certainly adding drones on the 2nd time through, works well on UP, especially on airs. Irish slow airs, being usually vocal music rather than pipe music, maybe don't require a drone so fundamentally. Musically this idea makes less sense on drone music though - double-tonic tunes etc. But with NSP, it is rare to have an on-off drone key, so it is hard for us to do in practice. As for drones being out of tune on recordings - as I said, it is the effect on the listener which matters. I can think of an otherwise excellent recording where the drones were badly out in places, so I know what you mean. But shutting them off is a cop-out, not a solution. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 10:52 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1][12]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2][13]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3][14]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4][15]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5][16]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John
[NSP] Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
If any UP fans haven't heard this album or others want to know more, it was released 31 years ago but has been redone on CD and is available at Amazon: (for UK readers) [1]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doublin-Paddy-Glackin/dp/B4SCTK/ref=sr_1 _4?ie=UTF8qid=1294413475sr=8-4 This review just about sums it up: Take two stunning musicians at the height of their powers, let them play a heap of the best tunes ever and this is what you get. Hell-for-leather playing, utterly precise, gives the cleanest example I know of how exciting Irish traditional music can be. It also my favourity version of Paddy Keenan playing the Bucks of Oranmore, which is heart stopping. Pure music - great for learning tunes from, or convincing doubters how good the music can be. Not my words but exactly my sentiments. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doublin-Paddy-Glackin/dp/B4SCTK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8qid=1294413475sr=8-4 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
I'd agree completely about this record. Lovely! I must dig it out again. The precision is what marks it out from a lot of lesser performances, Irish or from wherever. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 15:35 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) If any UP fans haven't heard this album or others want to know more, it was released 31 years ago but has been redone on CD and is available at Amazon: (for UK readers) [1]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doublin-Paddy-Glackin/dp/B4SCTK/ref=sr_1 _4?ie=UTF8qid=1294413475sr=8-4 This review just about sums it up: Take two stunning musicians at the height of their powers, let them play a heap of the best tunes ever and this is what you get. Hell-for-leather playing, utterly precise, gives the cleanest example I know of how exciting Irish traditional music can be. It also my favourity version of Paddy Keenan playing the Bucks of Oranmore, which is heart stopping. Pure music - great for learning tunes from, or convincing doubters how good the music can be. Not my words but exactly my sentiments. Cheers Anthony -- References 1. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doublin-Paddy-Glackin/dp/B4SCTK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8qid=1294413475sr=8-4 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning
Richard Colin also plays serpent for our morris side and plays concertina in our local sessions ( along with his son John on fiddle - awesome!) as well which helps , and I too have been lucky so far, he turned my English one round and sold it on for me in a matter of a few weeks. I never really got to grips with the English concertina so have no intention of replicating that system. I think Colin's idea is to shuffle everything to the left, if you see what I mean, and put some accidentals on the right - I will quiz him a bit more to make sure I am clear on what he is suggesting and report back. Regards Mike -Original Message- From: Richard York [mailto:rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk] Sent: 07 January 2011 10:02 To: Mike Dixon; NSP group Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Hi Mike, You have the right man in Colin Dipper! A very Rolls Royce of concertina tuners, who 25 years ago rescued my lovely anglo from a botch job someone else had done, and has looked after it from time to time ever since. And on the other hand, you probably already know that unless there's a good reason for haste, it may be quite a wait before you see it again! (I've been lucky so far.) If you're considering getting rid of the bass notes, are these the buttons you're going to be hanging extra accidentals for the right hand on? It sounds as if you're playing both English Anglo systems already, but to my mind having right hand notes under the left fingers of an anglo would really be confusing... I find the anglo a very tactile thing, compared to the more technical logical approach of the English system, and for me it would upset the lines of treble and bass thinking which the fingers do almost by themselves. I'd want to be sure I was gaining more than I was losing. Before I got my anglo in the first place, someone had tried re-arranging the system, and given up half-way. Colin has too much experience for that, but I'd still want to be sure that the gain outweighed the loss. Best of luck, Richard On 06/01/2011 12:36, Mike Dixon wrote: Rob Thanks - Colin Dipper will be doing the work for me ( he has just tweaked and sold my English concertina for me which is funding this work!) so I will talk it through with him - I gather he has done similar work for other pipers I will also have a look at a second hand one as an option - I will have to do the sums! Could you expand on the 'care and sympathy' with the drones? Cheers Mike -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of rob@milecastle27.co.uk Sent: 06 January 2011 12:00 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning Morning Mike - yes this correct. For a C/G anglo where you are typically playing tunes in G and D (and associated minors) you would want a Bb/F tuning to play with NSP. Unless you know the person you want to play with is in concert F then +20 would also be a very good idea. I have a Bb English concertina but it doesn't get out much because it's in concert pitch and too far from most sets of pipes. Personally I wouldn't get rid of the bass notes there's a lot of musical room to play in down there. It requires care and sympathy with the drones going ... Another consideration is that retuning a complete tone is quite invasive - it is possible to get a Bb/F instrument without modification. They are rarer but also cheap because no one else plays in those keys... I'd have a chat with some like Theo Gibb (www.theboxplace.co.uk) who will be able to give you some options - he has stacks of old lachenal reeds from various restorations. He also knows the basics about pipes - most free reed restoriers won't and has done an excellent restoration job on a couple of concertinas for me already. cheers Rob Quoting Mike Dixonmsdi...@btinternet.com: I have a 20 Button Anglo C/G Lachenal which I had for years which I have done very little with. I am about to get it serviced ( more like a re-build I suspect!) and am considering getting it re-tuned to play along with NSP - either for me to have a go , or to lend to a friend so we can do some duets Would I be on the right lines to go for F/B Flat? I suspect at +20 cents? We are also looking at removing the bass on the left hand and putting some accidentals on the right - might be useful as I rarely use the bass buttons as such Any thoughts or advice Thanks Mike Dixon To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Gibbons, John [1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: I'd agree completely about this record. Lovely! I must dig it out again. The precision is what marks it out from a lot of lesser performances, Irish or from wherever. I am so relieved that peace has broken out. I was especially worried after Anthony's Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. which reminded me that drones, like the nuclear force which binds everything together, might, if mishandled, lead to some Chernobyl-type musical meltdown scenario. And I love the Glackin Keenan record too, I haven't heard it for ages but it used to really fire me up, it has The Juice. A Guid New Year to all from fair Teviotdale -- References 1. mailto:j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Drone Tuning
This talk of drone tuning reminded me of something. Some years ago, someone on this list directed us to a website which had (I hope I can explain this and make sense) a keynote playing and you had to use sliders to tune the drones (using the mouse) and got a score for how near you were (it was an aid to tuning by ear) and showed how far out you were (I think it also had a this is how it should sound audio as well). Anyone remember it (I lost the URL several PCs ago) and does it still exist? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone Tuning Anthony, Certainly adding drones on the 2nd time through, works well on UP, especially on airs. Irish slow airs, being usually vocal music rather than pipe music, maybe don't require a drone so fundamentally. Musically this idea makes less sense on drone music though - double-tonic tunes etc. But with NSP, it is rare to have an on-off drone key, so it is hard for us to do in practice. As for drones being out of tune on recordings - as I said, it is the effect on the listener which matters. I can think of an otherwise excellent recording where the drones were badly out in places, so I know what you mean. But shutting them off is a cop-out, not a solution. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 10:52 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy played in, though everyone else in the session was in D, and the one who played faster than everyone else because it was more exciting. I've been the latter one myself on occasion Think about how it sounds for the rest of the world, and you will play better. John
[NSP] Re: Drone Tuning
Colin, the thing you recall is Rob Say's Northumbrian Smallpipes Simulator: http://www.milecastle27.co.uk/simulator/ I'm sure that Rob might reply himself, omitting to say how absolutely brilliant it is. So I shall do so instead. Francis On 7 Jan 2011, at 18:53, Colin wrote: This talk of drone tuning reminded me of something. Some years ago, someone on this list directed us to a website which had (I hope I can explain this and make sense) a keynote playing and you had to use sliders to tune the drones (using the mouse) and got a score for how near you were (it was an aid to tuning by ear) and showed how far out you were (I think it also had a this is how it should sound audio as well). Anyone remember it (I lost the URL several PCs ago) and does it still exist? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone Tuning Anthony, Certainly adding drones on the 2nd time through, works well on UP, especially on airs. Irish slow airs, being usually vocal music rather than pipe music, maybe don't require a drone so fundamentally. Musically this idea makes less sense on drone music though - double-tonic tunes etc. But with NSP, it is rare to have an on-off drone key, so it is hard for us to do in practice. As for drones being out of tune on recordings - as I said, it is the effect on the listener which matters. I can think of an otherwise excellent recording where the drones were badly out in places, so I know what you mean. But shutting them off is a cop-out, not a solution. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 10:52 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing everyone else in the room might be a priority for some, as well! I have heard too many so-called traditional musicians play to please themselves (and nobody else) not to add this health warning. You get them everywhere, but I recall the bloke who wound his flute up to E flat because that's the key Matt Molloy
[NSP] Re: Drone Tuning
I agree, it made sense for me as an isolated complete beginner. Interesting discussion re uillean pipes, as one of the only Northumbrian pipers in Ireland (and can barely call meself that) I found that when I contacted a few uillean pipemakers here, I was surprised how little they knew about the nsp. On 7 Jan 2011, at 19:00, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: Colin, the thing you recall is Rob Say's Northumbrian Smallpipes Simulator: http://www.milecastle27.co.uk/simulator/ I'm sure that Rob might reply himself, omitting to say how absolutely brilliant it is. So I shall do so instead. Francis On 7 Jan 2011, at 18:53, Colin wrote: This talk of drone tuning reminded me of something. Some years ago, someone on this list directed us to a website which had (I hope I can explain this and make sense) a keynote playing and you had to use sliders to tune the drones (using the mouse) and got a score for how near you were (it was an aid to tuning by ear) and showed how far out you were (I think it also had a this is how it should sound audio as well). Anyone remember it (I lost the URL several PCs ago) and does it still exist? Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 12:11 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Drone Tuning Anthony, Certainly adding drones on the 2nd time through, works well on UP, especially on airs. Irish slow airs, being usually vocal music rather than pipe music, maybe don't require a drone so fundamentally. Musically this idea makes less sense on drone music though - double-tonic tunes etc. But with NSP, it is rare to have an on-off drone key, so it is hard for us to do in practice. As for drones being out of tune on recordings - as I said, it is the effect on the listener which matters. I can think of an otherwise excellent recording where the drones were badly out in places, so I know what you mean. But shutting them off is a cop-out, not a solution. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 10:52 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning What you say is true, but still ignores Paddy Maloney's point of adding drones further into (even 'proper') pipes tunes for greater impact. We also have to remember that out of tune drones (and this unfortunately is the norm it seems to me) do little to enhance the music. This is true even in the most surprising quarters i.e. modern recordings where retakes could be done fairly easily to correct this. Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. Anthony --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: 'Anthony Robb' anth...@robbpipes.com, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu, rob@milecastle27.co.uk rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 10:17 Not at all - but pipes do sound better with drones, which are a fundamental part of the instrument, and also of what we might call 'proper' pipe music. There are some tunes where drones don't work, and some multi-instrument arrangements where they might get in the way, but - on pipe tunes at least - there is a price to pay if you shut them off. My warning was just to your more literal-minded readers out there, who might not think about the effect of their music on listeners. John -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 07 January 2011 09:48 To: [3]...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [4]rob@milecastle27.co.uk; Gibbons, John Subject: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning John, please remember I was talking in the context of switching off drones to let the music shine forth, not silly things like playing a semitone above everyone else! Many general music sessions involve key changes from G to D to A. Are you saying that pipes should not be adding their crystalline punchiness to the mix just because they have to be droneless? Cheers Anthony --- On Thu, 6/1/11, Gibbons, John [5]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: From: Gibbons, John [6]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: Concertina Tuning To: Anthony Robb [7]anth...@robbpipes.com, [8]...@cs.dartmouth.edu [9]...@cs.dartmouth.edu, [10]rob@milecastle27.co.uk [11]rob@milecastle27.co.uk Date: Thursday, 6 January, 2011, 20:50 Others may not like it but at least you'll be pleasing the most important person in this whole process, namely yourself. Which is I would argue is the main purpose of traditional music. Pleasing
[NSP] Like never before
Two hornpipes as you've never heard them before - The Wordsfail Hornpipe followed by Loudrocks. http://stash.alonetone.com/mp3/13649/Redesdale_Proudlocks_Hesleyside-WyrDGeneS.mp3 I must say, I really like this. To find out more, Google 'Wyrdgenes' Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin)
And I love the Glackin Keenan record too, I haven't heard it for ages but it used to really fire me up, it has The Juice. (Matt) And at 8.99 GBP surely the best value music CD online this year!! Anthony PS John G is a sharp as a broken pisspot (as we say up/down here) and I enjoy our exchanges immensely. - --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com Subject: [NSP] Re: Doublin' (Keenan Glackin) To: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Friday, 7 January, 2011, 18:23 On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM, Gibbons, John [1][1]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk wrote: The precision is what marks it out from a lot of lesser performances, Irish or from wherever. I am so relieved that peace has broken out. I was especially worried after Anthony's Yes drones are wonderful and powerful but this power can also be, and all too often is, destructive. which reminded me that drones, like the nuclear force which binds everything together, might, if mishandled, lead to some Chernobyl-type musical meltdown scenario. And I love the Glackin Keenan record too, I haven't heard it for ages but it used to really fire me up, it has The Juice. A Guid New Year to all from fair Teviotdale -- References 1. mailto:[2]j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Like never before
Clever and funny, Francis, well spotted On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Francis Wood [1]oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: Two hornpipes as you've never heard them before - The Wordsfail Hornpipe followed by Loudrocks. [2]http://stash.alonetone.com/mp3/13649/Redesdale_Proudlocks_Hesleys ide-WyrDGeneS.mp3 I must say, I really like this. To find out more, Google 'Wyrdgenes' Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. http://stash.alonetone.com/mp3/13649/Redesdale_Proudlocks_Hesleyside-WyrDGeneS.mp3 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Like never before
Very daft. `It's Northumbrian music cap'n but not as we know it' The track continues with Hesleyside Reel, and finally brings out, wonderfully, the true treacliness of Sweet Hesleyside. Can he please murder Rothbury Hills too for an encore maybe? It needs it. I will be going back to the site for a 2nd helping once the headache's gone away. John PS any thoughts, Anthony? From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle [theborderpi...@googlemail.com] Sent: 07 January 2011 22:19 To: Francis Wood Cc: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: Like never before Clever and funny, Francis, well spotted On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Francis Wood [1]oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: Two hornpipes as you've never heard them before - The Wordsfail Hornpipe followed by Loudrocks. [2]http://stash.alonetone.com/mp3/13649/Redesdale_Proudlocks_Hesleys ide-WyrDGeneS.mp3 I must say, I really like this. To find out more, Google 'Wyrdgenes' Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:oatenp...@googlemail.com 2. http://stash.alonetone.com/mp3/13649/Redesdale_Proudlocks_Hesleyside-WyrDGeneS.mp3 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP concertina
Thanks for the reminder about the Glackin/Keenan CD. It will always be associated with the solace it gave me while holed up in a Manhattan hotel during a week of terrifyingly dull business meetings. As for NSP concertina, if you haven't yet listened to Rob Say's CD O'er Lang at the Fair Veteran (VT157CD) do yourself a favor and get a copy. I bought mine from www.bagpipediscs.com. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
