[NSP] Re: TOTM selection process: new proposal
Hi John, That sounds like a great proposal, brilliant learning possibilities and history background too Super Dave S On 12/14/2011 9:40 AM, John Dally wrote: How would the group feel if we changed the present tune/topic/theme selection process? There must be better ways to make the choice so that more pipers will want to participate and, equally important, there will be more useful discussion about the selection. Pete Stewart has been very helpful in the selection process so far, and I hope we will continue to work in tandem with the LBPS. Perhaps the authorities and masters among us would make the selection, telling us why they selected it and some of the background to the selection. Each month a new person would make his/her selection. I found Richard Evans comments on my Overseas entries extremely helpful. Likewise, perhaps the Expert of the Month would offer helpful and encouraging comments on the performances. What do you think? To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2108/4678 - Release Date: 12/13/11
[NSP] Re: Kathryn Tickell
Thanks for the link -- time in 1h12'ish to 1h33 on the one I played Dave S On 11/18/2011 11:44 AM, Di Jevons wrote: A fiddler friend of mine has sent me a BBC iplayer link to a Radio Scotland programme Travelling Folk featuring Chris Stout from Fiddlers Bid. Also on the same programme is Kathryn Tickell. Kathryn is on from about 8 minutes for about half an hour. Here is the link for anyone who's interested [1]http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175jnm#segments -- References 1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0175jnm#segments To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1869 / Virus Database: 2092/4622 - Release Date: 11/17/11
[NSP] Re: Alice Burn Emily Hoile
I agree, and the playing great, I hope it continues to reach new heights and directions for NSP. As was said, it is a chamber instrument --- Dave S On 9/16/2011 2:47 PM, Richard Shuttleworth wrote: On 16 Sep 2011, at 13:18, Richard Shuttleworth wrote: Why did I get Rachmaninov? Richard (Puzzled in Quebec) Because that is the first item on in the programme. For Alice and Emily go to 1.09 (hours and minutes). Good luck Francis Ah, I was thinking minutes and seconds not hours and minutes (not used to classical radio programmes lasting more than an hour). Thank you Francis. Lovely playing, I feel old :-)) Richard To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3900 - Release Date: 09/16/11
[NSP] Re: Playing with a man-ometer . . .
Hi Francis, well spotted, and well proportioned what ! Dave On 8/10/2011 1:23 PM, Francis Wood wrote: You really have to see this. A great demonstration of playing pressure, from full glory to Pipers' Droop. Especially the ending: http://youtu.be/fPedwnc5e_s Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] pastoral
Hi, does anyone have a pastoral set for sale, if so reply PM thanks Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/shameless plug
Hi all, After Dave Shaw piqued my curiosity I got round to playing with WSOTW and thought I would offer this - the ending is a bit of a fiddle, but whatever X:11 T:NPS Collection T:Whin Shields on the Wall C:John L. Dunk Q:1/4=100 M:2/4 L:1/16 K:G |d2 |:B2G2 G2B2 |A2D2 D2D2 |G2G2 GABc |d3B d2g2 |e2c2 c2e2 |d2G2 G2AB |c2E2 E2FG :| ABcd e2fg |decB ABGF |G3E G2B2 |e2B2 B2e2 |d3A d2e2 |a2e2 e2f2 |g3e g2f2 |e2d2 c2B2 |A2d2 d2fd :| A2d2 e2fg |a3g gfed |B2G2 GABG |A2D2 D2EF |G2G2 GABc |d6 g2 | e2c2 c2de |1 d2G2 G2AB |c2B2 A2G2 :|2 dedB GAGE |c2F Fd2G-||G3E G4 |] ciao Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: TOTM/Drones
Hi -- I have posted the Mad Moll on Northumbrianpipers forum so all interested can have a look at an early version of the tune. Quite possibly it is a droneless undefined key tune -- I have no idea and am not qualified to hazard a quess Dave On 8/1/2011 7:37 PM, Matt Seattle wrote: On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:12 PM, John Dally[1]dir...@gmail.com wrote: Being a drone musician Peacock might have had an insight into the tonality of the tune. The first impulse is to think he just wanted to fit it on the keyless chanter. It's in Em (the relative minor of G). Ending on an A, the tune is usually said to be in Am which, which, as Barry points out, misses the point altogether. It's in 'A neutral', a gapped scale, neither major nor minor (although Peacock's version has a fleeting c, absent from other versions), it just happens to start on the 5th of the scale (e). I can't agree that it's in E anything. It fits perfectly because unlike most Highland pipe tunes the high a is absent, so no clipping required. -- References 1. mailto:dir...@gmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1518/3800 - Release Date: 07/31/11
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Thanks John, for the correction -- I had assumed and was wrong - sorry Kevin ! Dave S On 7/16/2011 12:00 AM, Gibbons, John wrote: Kevin, Tom Anderson, who wrote it, explained in an interview in 1970, printed in his book ''Ringing Strings'' ''I was coming out of Eshaness in late January 1969,the time was after 11pm and as I looked back at the top of the hill leading out of the district I saw so few lights compared to what I had remembered when I was young. As I watched, the lights started going out one by one. That, coupled with the recent death of my late wife, made me think of the old word 'Slockit' meaning, a light that has gone out, and I think that was what inspired the tune.'' John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Dave S [david...@pt.lu] Sent: 15 July 2011 22:27 To: Kevin Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: on keilder side Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called Da Slockit in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: Hello to All, i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of a tune: On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings on kielder side theres a happy tune called da slockit light do you know the tune? which i can only guess means the turned of light?. What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. Thanks. Mikael. can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11
[NSP] Re: Shield's H'pipe
Hi Francis, yes interesting indeed - the midi sounds like a minor plagiarize from a Purcell air in Dmin -- or bits of downfall of the djinn -- perhaps O'Carolan varied a tune based on Purcell or was it vice-versa -- I looked in Anderson vol 1 for Morpeth rant but could not find it -- does anyone have vol 2 or later with it in ? sods to the music moguls - keep music live Dave On 7/15/2011 3:57 PM, Francis Wood wrote: On 15 Jul 2011, at 14:48, Dave S wrote: The Arethusa is from a musical farce called Lock and Key and in the British Minstrelsy the melody is assigned to Shield. Hi Dave, That's interesting! More here: http://www.contemplator.com/sea/arethusa.html Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: Mr Dunk - Inspector of Public Nuisances
from the last couple of mail it's a critiques slam dunk Dave H . . . Dunk and disorderly. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3764 - Release Date: 07/14/11
[NSP] Re: on keilder side
Hi, It's probably a lighthouse on a promontary called Da Slockit in the Shetland Islands -- super tune on NSP. Tom Anderson wrote some superb melodies for violin --- and the Kielder is a village and a river Dave S On 7/15/2011 10:43 PM, Kevin wrote: Hello to All, i have just had a question from my Swedish friend who is asking the meaning of a tune: On one of Kathryn Tickells earliest recordings on kielder side theres a happy tune called da slockit light do you know the tune? which i can only guess means the turned of light?. What does it really mean? And what is on kielder side? Is it a river perhaps. Thanks. Mikael. can anyone enlighten him on the title of the tune? kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3766 - Release Date: 07/15/11
[NSP] Re: Rants again
Etymology+Origin of rant (verb) 1598, from Du. randten talk foolishly, rave, of unknown origin (cf. Ger. rantzen to frolic, spring about). The noun is first attested 1649, from the verb. Ranters antinomian sect which arose in England c.1645 is attested from 1651; applied 1823 to early Methodists. A 1700 slang dictionary has rantipole a rude wild Boy or Girl. On 7/11/2011 8:32 PM, Tim Rolls wrote: rant. Old Eng. 17th-cent. dance of the jig variety. It originated in Scotland an d N. England. Four examples occur in Playford's The Dancing Master (1657 and 166 5 revisions). The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Music | 1996 Any advance on Playford? Smith's New Rant (What happened to the old one?) A Scots Rant A rendition of The Italian Rant [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPL2FXqVc9M Tim On 11 Jul 2011, at 14:06, Gibbons, John wrote: 'Rant', as in 'Morpeth Rant', appeared in Vickers' MS in 1770, predating the Primitive Methodists. But 'Ranters' were another religious sect during the Civil War, so an old name was reapplied to the Primitive Methodists. The use of 'rant' for various dance tunes, in various rhythms, occurs through much of the 18th century, eg The Cameronian's Rant is a reel, The Collier's Rant a song in 6/8. The restricted use of the term to 4/4 tunes like The Morpeth Rant is much more s pecific, and local to Northumberland. It is perhaps significant that Scots Measures went out of fashion about the time rants came in. Both have 8 bars of 4/4. The main difference between the forms is that in the fo rmer, the cadences have a crotchet then two tied (syncopated) crotchets, while rants have a strong 3rd beat, and there is no tie. It would be interesting to know (though we never will) what Morpeth Rant looked like in Vickers before the page got lost. He retained syncopation in similar positions in some hornpipes. John -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[3]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Beha lf Of Tim Rolls Sent: 11 July 2011 13:46 To: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: Rants again Unencumbered as I am by knowledge, experience or understanding of dance steps, I too have asked this question. I am led to believe that the emphasis should be o n the third beat of the bar as this mirrors a larger/more emphatic step in the d ance. I had a look at Moody to see if there's any guidance linguistically. No definite help, we have: Rantan, Rantaan. Used in the phrase on the rantan, indulging one's self in dis orderly and wild conduct as a form of high spirited enjoyment: a milder form of on the rampaadge(sic), on the spree, e.g. He's gyen on the rantan, i.e. his frolic can be sympathetically excused. Ranter 1. A term applied in contemptuous disparagement to the more zealous members of t he Methodist Church - particularly of the Primitive Methodist body - who were gi ven to ardent impromptu prayers, lusty singing of hymns and loud ejaculations of Pious praise during their religious services. Thus: Aa've left the Chorch (Ang lican) an' aa've joined the Ranters.Note, the Primitive Methodist Church origina ted in 1807-1810 and the term Ranter was first used in 1814. 2. By transference, applied to hymns sung in the Primitive Methodist and United Methodist Churches, or in the Salvation Army. These hymns, nowadays sadly out of favour, were characterised by rollicking tunes, half line refrains (sung by alt ernate parts) and rather crude sentiment; but they were enjoyable to sing and we re rendered both lustily and fervently: e.g. Ay, that's a gud aad Rantor that h ymn So can anyone fill in the gap between the hymns and the dance? Or any of the rol licking tunes? I'll put this on the NSP forum as a question too. cheers Tim On 11 Jul 2011, at 13:05, Gibbons, John wrote: Why has this rant thread gone so quiet all last week? What makes a tune sound like a rant, rather than a reel or hornpipe? If I take a (4 in a bar) hornpipe without triplets, speed it up a bit, but not a s much as a reel, smooth out the dotting a bit, and emphasise the odd beats at the expense of the even ones, will I get a rant? How essential are those 3-crotchet cadences? Are there any essential stylistic features that this attempt at a description mi sses? John To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - [5]www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1388 / Virus Database: 1516/3756 - Release Date: 07/10/11 -- References Visible links 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPL2FXqVc9M 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 5. http://www.avg.com/ Hidden links: 6. http://www.realdictionary.com/?q=cry
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
nah Tim, propa poms Dave On 6/21/2011 3:54 PM, Tim Rolls wrote: Popapoms would be the Australian version then? Tim On 21 Jun 2011, at 14:44, Dave S wrote: Colin, that would be popapoms then, er, hope there are no cheerleaders affronted Dave On 6/21/2011 3:31 PM, cwhill wrote: So popadoms then :) Colin Hill On 21/06/2011 12:18, Gibbons, John wrote: When I was in a choir, a composer of a piece we'd commissioned explained legato, poco staccato and staccato respectively as pah, pom, and pop. For NSP, pah is a no-no, as notes need definite ends. So the spectrum we work between is somewhere between pom and pop. Occasional ventures into staccatissimo, as in Meggy's Foot, need a pip instead. But generally the notes should come out like peas, not lentils. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Sent: 21 June 2011 09:45 To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk Cc: rich...@lizards.force9.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead Oops, outlook tells me I've already sent a reply. I wonder what it said... Barry, et al. May I point you to the Dolmetsch dictionary http://www.dolmetsch.com/defss4.htm Thanks, this is very interesting but unfortunately reminds me that dictionaries are not infallible. (I have been working as a professional translator since 1974). And indeed that musicians and lexicographers cannot always agree on the precise meaning of the terminology they use. For example, here: http://www.winterkonzerte.de/fachbegriffe.html I found: spiccato: Deutlich, abgesetzt, mit gestoßenen Noten (Bogentechnik bei Streichinstrumenten). staccato: Gestoßen, kurz, abgehackt. Gegensatz:- legato The terminology here is very vague, and doesn't explain the fundamental difference between staccato and spiccato, i.e. that staccato stays on the string and spiccato bounces. This is further confused by the fact that French-speakers tend to call any bouncing stroke sautillé even though this term more strictly applies to the rapid bouncing of the wood of the bow unassisted, as it were, and is related to tremolo. sautillé works well on fast semiquavers, spiccato can be used on relatively slow notes. It is performed with the upper arm and the bow reaches and leaves the string like an aircraft landing and immediatly taking off again or like a stone skimmed across water. Back to Dolmetsch: it does give staccare (Italian) to detach, to separate each note as the basic meaning. Then things get complicated. For example, I can assure you that détaché means what I described in my previous posting, as also found here: http://www.violinonline.com/bowstrokes.htm Détaché indicates smooth, separate bow strokes should be used for each note (it does not mean detached or disconnected). Notes are of equal value, and are produced with an even, seamless stroke with no variation in pressure. Not because I necessarily trust this source (for example, it makes martelé and staccato sound like the same thing) but having been trained in Luxembourg (where the system and terminology are very much based on the French model) and Liège - and sometimes by French-speaking teachers - this is what I have learnt that the expressions mean. Back to Dolmetsch again: it implies that staccato is the same thing as gestoßen (German), détaché (French), piqué (French). Gestoßen certainly means détaché but piqué doesn't; it means something more like staccatissimo. So I wouldn't rely too much on dictionaries (for example, what is the relevance of the reference to Monteverdi's use of pizzicato in this context?) Personally, staccato is a word I use for musical effects and never for a piping style. I think it merely confuses matters. Quite rightly. But it does have a technical meaning for string players. Sorry if I sound like a know-all, but the above is merely a distillation of what I have gathered over several decades to be the consensus among practising string players as opposed to lexicographers and musicologists and is offered FWIW. Best, Chris (wer übt, hat's nötig) Birch To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3717 - Release Date: 06/21/11
[NSP] UP open/closed fingering
Hello, Here is a link to Liam O'Flynn discussing the topic of styles. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQU84O8xZlEfeature=related and for those who follow LBPS and Paul Roberts winning piece this will be doubly of interest I enjoy listening to this musician cresting stories on his pipes -- fabulous Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] typo
oops --- creating having problems with seing at the moment Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Tune books with arrangements for other instruments
Hi Ian -- I think there are some books by Derek Hobbs on the NSP site cheers Dave S On 6/18/2011 6:59 PM, Ian Lawther wrote: I know there have been some books published in the past that include tune arrangements for Northumbrian pipes and other instruments though as someone who is normally a solo player I haven't taken much notice..until now. I need to encourage an 11 year old flautist and 12 year old cellist to practice during the school summer holiday (which starts next week here in the US) and thought trying some group playing might be better than getting each to do solo practice. Are there any books that would cover such instruments and if so anyone know sources? Beyond NSP there are other instruments I play that could join in with them so general British folk music arranged for assorted instruments would also be good. Thanks, Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3711 - Release Date: 06/18/11
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
OK OK I see I just got Visa'd ciao On 6/17/2011 10:17 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Bugger! Dartmouth doesn't like rich text. Here's a proper e-mail: __ From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 10:15 AM To: 'Dave S'; Inky- Adrian Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject:RE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions Please define can ;-) This CAN of worms just lost it's lid Anthony, CAN you play the NSPs? -- Plus ça reste la même chose ….. Csírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Love it -- copulating skeletons eh bien 'enri c'est formidable Thanks for that Barry cheers Dave S On 6/17/2011 10:44 PM, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: Quoting Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com: Ah. harpsichord duets. The sound of skeletons copulating on a corrugated tin roof. (Boult? Arnorld? cant remember!) oops should have been can't (Henri l'apostrophe) That's enuff B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3709 - Release Date: 06/17/11
[NSP] Re: divorce
Thanks Francis, ---
Original Message
Subject: Re: [NSP] divorce
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:16:16 +0200
From: Dave S [1]david...@pt.lu
To: Francis Wood [2]oatenp...@googlemail.com
Hi Francis,
I concur with all of your points, it's not bad at all that there are now
3 places to pick up info, the sad thing is that there is no
co-ordination or contact between the 3 at this time -- useful info will
only get to a limited audience when it comes out into the open from any
one of the groups.
That is the worst of this difference of opinion, and from memory I can't
think of many reforms forced through by a minority in a democratic way
but Inky is right to question the perhaps limiting behaviour on The
Nsp is definition
Julia - can you give us a bit insight into this area --
can't society ask for the opening of a separate class of allied to NSP
to allow development -- this would allow shuttle drone blocks (certainly
much easier to travel with and it does not damage so easily) and
sordellinos ( basically an NSP with regulators), but it came from
somewhere else - so ? and what of the phagotum - that would certainly
create interest.
Maybe someone will have ingenuity to build a boehm keyed NSP -- but
will it be accepted? - narrow bore piccolo what next, LOL.
Variety is the spice to life - but yes we need tradition but the core
tradition may well benefit from a wider supporting role from acceptable
close to or offshoots of the original type pipes. What was the original
tradition based on anyway ? I am not qualified to even hazard a quess
sso - suffice to say - the 17 key is way away from the original
isn't it -- a keyless chanter -- or are there a variety of traditions ie
no key - 4 key - 5,7,11,13,15,17 18, etc etc and then we have not yet
begun on the drone possibilites.
I think the Lowland and Border society comes closer to harmonizing it's
members by saying drones in a common stock
As for oil -- I certainly go for neck oil of most varieties, except
flat beer
cheers me dears
Dave S
On 6/16/2011 10:22 AM, Francis Wood wrote:
Hello Dave and others,
I see things a little differently.
Two things have happened here, the first being a move to have opinions, inform
ation and other resources made permanently available in the form of a forum. Thi
s is currently happening in the NPS Forum and the Traditional NSP Forum establi
shed by Inky-Adrian. The advantage of the forum medium is clear - it provides a
growing archive where threads are easily followed and remain related to their or
iginal header. This is not so with the archived posts of this, or any other lis
t.
The second development is that there are now two separate forums. It might be
argued that it's a pity that the party is going on in two different houses. My o
wn view is that diversity is a good thing. Each forum can learn and develop from
the other. It's also a good demonstration that the often-confused NSP and NPS a
re not in fact the same thing, and that each can exist detached from the other.
I'll continue to follow and enjoy this list, though I treat it very much as a
newspaper, occasionally keeping cuttings but treating the rest as daily ephemera
. As a repository of useful fact and opinion, it doesn't really work.
By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use
?
Francis
On 16 Jun 2011, at 08:38, Dave S wrote:
Hi,
It seems as though Inky has his wish. The tradition is now firmly no longer o
ut in the open.
This list served the purpose of introducing the beginner(shy fence-sitter to
brash young expert) to light conversation/disagreement/proposition on all subjec
ts around the wonderful instrument known as the NSP. It has done this well for a
good number of years, but I believe the polarisation Inky wrongly thought was n
ecessary to save his ideal methodology (rightly or wrongly) of the ONLY way to p
lay NSP has wrought more damage than can now be imagined.
I would liken it to attempting to harmonize the accents used by people in an
y single country of the world.
I find it rather saddening that this has occurred - I will continue to listen
and reply to try and keep this list going -- will the rest of you out there do
the same ??
Inky has a good heart but perhaps a too impulsive temperament has taken over
in this case -- why not teach your method to the masses by force of persuation,
Inky, and not by force of typing.
Of course there are multiple sides in the recent situation but I hope our lov
e the instrument, it's possibilities and it's beatiful music will eventually pre
vail over the hot tempered reactions.
ciao
Dave S
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References
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2
[NSP] Re: Trad.nsp vs Dartmouth
Hi Inky, -- glad you keep one eye open and nope I can't play proper - I don't have the wrapper of the tradition anywhere near - so I don't even bother with any form of competition, I just like great instruments. Dave S On 6/16/2011 8:08 PM, Inky- Adrian wrote: The annual smallpipe Bitch and Bite comps. will be in July. There will be 6 classes: absolute sloppyness and running-your-notes-in, just damn right easy-playing, almost there, nearly normal, can't play like that-it's too hard and tight as a cats arsehole. Tommy Breckons would be proud of me! -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11
[NSP] test
Just checking my send connection Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] abc visualizer
Hi all, For ABC fans I came across this FREE player from Myriad -- it will load midis abc and other types of music files -- and give the notation from the abc or midi -- and play them back - can handle multiple staves http://www.myriad-online.com/en/products/melodyplayer.htm It will handle fairly large abc's -- excellent for practise as it has a metronome Try it out -- enjoy Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] article by J.D.
Hi John, I agree wholeheartedly -- I can't think of a more wondrous thing than pipes played with emotion and soul -- if they are in tune that is --- Dave S On 5/23/2011 6:52 PM, John Dally wrote: Melodeon.net is a remarkably interesting and helpful resource if you're a box player. One of the things they do is have a tune of the month where members vote on a tune out of a list of four and then everyone is invited to post their rendition of it on [1]youtube.com. The moderators also select a theme, like Irish tunes or wedding tunes or something like that. I have found this to be a real boost to my learning to play the melodeon, learning tunes, connecting with folks around the world, getting good advice. The remarkable thing is that I haven't come across a negative comment or any comment that wasn't made with the best intentions. Of course, people do have their favorite instruments and styles, etc., and some have their bugaboos, but overall it's a very encouraging internet community. Perhaps, we could doing something like this here on the NSP newsgroup. If even only a few people think this is a good idea and want to participate I think it would be a good way to keep the conversation going and help each other out. It also gives something for people to work towards, like a competition without the stress and judgement. Perhaps one of the reasons the melodeon group is so friendly is that they don't have competition built into their culture the way pipers do. (For a diatribe on the subject see my editorial at [2]www.theotherpipers.org). Anyway, if this seems like an interesting idea to enough people perhaps we could name a tune of the month for June by this coming weekend. cheers, John Dally -- References 1. http://youtube.com/ 2. http://www.theotherpipers.org/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1375 / Virus Database: 1509/3653 - Release Date: 05/22/11
[NSP] Re: Clough v Reid - keys sequence
Hi Philip, This is another idea -- the bottom keys ( D - Eb I think) allow choice of finger - regards Dave S On 5/5/2011 11:10 AM, Philip Gruar wrote: a.d.s wrote Clough played in A maj and C maj. The arrangement of the Clough arrangement of key's was C low at the left side and B at the right side and that would allow player's to play in B and play the Beeswing, Underhand and whatever. Thanks for the replies on and off-list so far. As expected, there are differing opinions. Adrian - are you saying that a B left, C right arrangement will make it significantly harder to play Beeswing, Underhand etc? Is the classic CB style essential/desirable for the traditional virtuoso repertoire? If I start making chanters with BC instead of the traditional CB, am I sending non-standard instruments out into the piping world which will hamper their future owners for years to come? Or will they join Colin's chanters with ABC, low G's etc. as part of the rich tapestry, which players will get used to? Should pipe-makers adopt a new standard with a left-side low B, but try to make it still just as easy to hit in arpeggios down from G/D as a right-side low B? Maybe this should only be done where there is also a right-side C# paired with D, but not where the C# is on the left? Philip - Original Message - From: a.d.s a@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 1:36 AM Subject: [NSP] Clough v Reid Hello all, I don't know of any player's since Clough that played in C except me and those that followed my example. Top C was added to my chanter by Colin, which was in F, which allowed me to play from low C to top C. This was a first as far as I know; bottom G didn't exist then. Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1209 / Virus Database: 1500/3615 - Release Date: 05/04/11 --
[NSP] Re: Still looking for an F set!
I would recommend Uwe Seitz who lives near HeilBrunn in Germany, his set are A440 F so one can play at concert pitch with a consort/ensemble/ etc and push a bit for F+ Dave Singleton On 3/23/2011 3:35 PM, John Dally wrote: You want us to recommend a maker? ha, ha, ha. On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:02 AM, Gordon Browngor...@10db.co.uk wrote: My wife Alison has a Burleigh D set is still looking for an F set so that she can play along with other pipers - not that there are many in East Anglia! If anyone has a set for sale or knows of one that may be available, please let me know. The alternative is that we look for a new set, although I'm bracing myself for the long wait. On that basis, does anyone have any recommendations for a nice traditional/conventional F set? As I've had a good year price is not the main consideration, quality and reliability are. Cheers Gordon -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1498/3524 - Release Date: 03/23/11
[NSP] Re: Esoteric tuning relationships
Absolutely Francis, music is a sociable activity, I also think the idea is take your pipes out of the box and be able to muck in with any other type of instrument. I may be considered different but I like the idea of just saying - yep it's a Bb transposing, so treat it like a clarinet. I therefore set up for A=440( as close as is possible) and like the way it sounds. As for re-reeded pipes that get modded at the top end -- that would be a staple conicity variation, thus not just the old reed that was in it, it has to be the original makers staple -- Dave S On 2/9/2011 7:17 PM, Francis Wood wrote: Playing music is primarily a sociable activity and there seems to be little point in encouraging an NSP 'sharp-F ghetto' where players can only play comfortably with their own kind. For that reason, I think that anyone considering buying and learning pipes should consider whether they intend to play primarily with other instruments or just with with pipes . If pipe-makers are offering to provide pipes set up in these alternative pitches, they should make themselves known. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Bewicks German Spa
Hi Ian, Check out Shotley Sword-makers - it may have be a link to the spa and the German sword makers who emigrated in the time of King William Tschüss Dave s On 2/1/2011 5:09 AM, Ian Lawther wrote: I've just noticed a tune called German Spa in Bewick and wondered if it is, by definition, a Bad tune! Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3414 - Release Date: 01/31/11
[NSP] Re: Intonation
Hi, Years ago John Leistman wrote an article about balancing drone reeds, if you can find this article it will explain in great detail the why and wherefore of tuning drones --- and why each set is different. in short it's to do with the pressure each player uses and how and if they tune their drone reeds to the pressure they like to use to have their chanter ring true Dave S On 1/11/2011 1:40 PM, Colin and Cheryl McNaught wrote: Following on from these sage comments, does anyone have ideas about what causes some drones to be significantly more pressure sensitive than others. By this I mean their pitch varies more for a given change in bag pressure. Once they are adjusted for pitch and pressure there doesn't seem to be anything else to tweak without spoiling the pitch/pressure set-ups. I have a set that is very stable and another that has a couple of drones that aren't and would like to improve them. I always try to play other pipe sets when at NSP get-togethers and it's been my experience that every set I have played has some quirky notes. I'm sure there's a reed dependency in this too. Making small (often unconscious) adjustments in bag pressure seems to be a part of playing this instrument well (just as embouchure adjustments on, e.g. oboe, flute). Consequently, a set of drones that is more stable can result in a 'sweeter' end result than one that isn't. Colin (McNaught) On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 7:05 PM,[1]gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: As many notes on an NSP chanter can be bent about a quarter tone without putting the drones far out - at least on a good reed day - I guess one difference between a good piper and a fairly good one is the former will squeeze notes into tune unconsciously and accurately, the latter consciously and only fairly accurately. I often think of singing the note, so I have an idea of the pitch in my head, to aim for. Listening to the chord with the drones - if these are in tune - also helps with some notes. It is the notes that harmonise with the drones which are most exposed if out of tune, so recognising a just 3rd or whatever tells you you've got there. The singing trick doesn't work so well if you are still thinking equal-tempered, mind. So chords are better. Long notes are good practice for this - I wonder if this is one reason Tom Clough liked playing hymn tunes? 'Oh God our Help in Ages Past' (aka St Anne, or 'The Goldfish') is a good one for this, dead slow. I sometimes use this to see if the drones are 'really' in tune. When I started playing NSP after playing the flute for years, my embouchure would bend to try to bring notes in - ineffective of itself, but I found I was doing something useful as well, as the notes came more into tune (I pinched a non-existent thumbhole to get the top octave on the whistle, as well). That first set I had needed a bit of variable squeezing to bring some notes close to where they should be. Intonation is a mystery on most instruments, and the hardest part to get right. A related issue is tone colour - finger vibrato alters the harmonics of a note substantially, changing the colour a lot; pressure vibrato much less so. Taking a lower finger off the chanter may vary the pitch up or down, so you can use finger vibrato to improve the intonation as well as the colour. Or worsen the intonation, if you use the wrong finger. Knowing which lower finger moves which notes in which direction is something one ought to learn. I tend to use the same finger whatever, if it works. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:gibbonssoi...@aol.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3372 - Release Date: 01/10/11
[NSP] Re: Doubleday
Hello inky-adrian, This is interesting and thought provoking, but I would like to have your insight on where, and how, the precision can be found and appreciated. At my level of fumbling I need all the help I can get to begin to feel the phrases the composer unconsciously put together to make the pipes express his wishes. Thanks (we have winter here as well!) Dave S On 12/6/2010 2:14 AM, inky-adrian wrote: Hello all this instrument does not lack ability, it lacks players who can't play in the correct method; not many can do that. Expression is emphasised in precision. I'm not here to delineate. There is no more expression in those who can play the detached method with feeling. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipes with continuo?
Hi Richard, [1]http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJprintsec=frontcoverdq= %22essays+in+musicology%22source=blots=ITEFvN0Hiisig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_u bQ_wRLOiSuyQhl=enei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkIsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resul tresnum=1ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepageqf=false The link is on google books and is about hornpipes, but may help towards a part answer to your question, have a look at the book essays in musicology ---page 150 regards Dave Singleton On 11/25/2010 6:50 PM, Richard York wrote: I was listening recently to a trio playing 17th/18th Cent. divisions on La Folia on the radio, and was struck afresh by how similar are some of the things appearing in the nsp variations. (And yet different.)[Special aside for Round the Horn listeners :) ] Divisions on viols or recorders were normally played with at least a bass, and/or a harpsichord or whatever, and our variations/divisions must come out of the same culture in the first place, whether it's later a parallel or a parent-child type development to get to where Peacock's sets arrived. So, given that pipes are generally thought of as a solo instrument, (correct me if not!) do we know at what stage of development the divorce from the continuo or ground bass instrument actually happened? Assuming it did. Do the smallpipes with their variations repertoire first appear having already made the musical separation, or was there any practice of playing them over a ground? (Please note, this *is* on topic!) Best wishes, Richard. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3276 - Release Date: 11/24/10 08:34:0 0 -- References 1. http://books.google.lu/books?id=VoQXAQAAIAAJprintsec=frontcoverdq=%22essays+in+musicology%22source=blots=ITEFvN0Hiisig=iIvdnoOEE_CRl_ubQ_wRLOiSuyQhl=enei=cRD4TOSQMY2dOrX-kbkIsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=1ved=0CBEQ6AEwAA#v=onepageqf=false 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
Francis, many thanks for the tip -- I don't often get to see the radio times !! Dave Singleton On 11/23/2010 9:57 AM, Francis Wood wrote: BBC Radio 7 is broadcasting 'The Secret History of Bagpipes' at 14.30 today Described as 'Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics', this item may be of interest to NSP players. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [2]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3272 - Release Date: 11/22/10 08:35:0 0 -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] Re: BBC Radio bagpipes programme
bill, i programmed it on satellite at 15:30 european time -bbc r7 ciao dave On 11/23/2010 2:18 PM, Bill wrote: Bill . . . are you looking at the correct schedule? This is on BBC Radio 7, not Radio Scotland Francis, My first message quotes the url for BBC Radio7 schedules for today. The bagpipes prog you quote isn't on the online schedule. So then I looked online again at Radio Scotland's Tom Morton prog which is on in the afternoon after 2 but the bagpipes thing you mention isn't on it. Now reading my (hard copy) Radio Times -yes your prog is listed so the online BBC schedule is at variance with the Radio Times! Bill This is what the BBC site states: Next on: Today, 14:30 on BBC Radio 7 Synopsis Tom Morton investigates Pipes and Politics - from Northern Ireland to Galicia via Scotland and Northumbria. From January 2004. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [2]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3271 - Release Date: 11/23/10 07:34:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 9.0.869 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3272 - Release Date: 11/22/10 08:35:0 0 -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 2. http://www.avg.com/ 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] morpeth museum site
Hello all, Can some kind person pass on a more meaningful, corrected text for the Chantry to Ann -- or is this the level that passes for English in todays' world. extracted home page text follows:- * Housed in Morpeth's medieval Chantry buildings since 1987, the Bagpipe Museum his home to a unique collection , the foundation of which is the bagpipe collection of William Alfred Cocks (1892 - 1971), a clockmaker from Ryton, near Newcastle.** The pipes collection belongs to the Society of Antiquaries of Newcastle upon Tyne, and the Museum is supported by Castle Morpeth Borough Council.* To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Open competition tunes
Hi, Does anyone have a list of the open tunes and the year they were used for competition (where) going back 50 years ? I asked Julia maybe 15 years ago but she didn't have time to follow up on it. She mentioned that she had some in abc so if they exist I would most appreciate it Dave Singleton To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Open competition tunes
Hi Julia, don't worry too much -- I only just remembered that I asked 15 years ago !!! I would like to get some ideas of the set tunes e.g the set tune for the open class NSP soc 1993 was Scott Skinner's compliments to Dr McDonald - so if it's a no go ok but if there are any memories out there it would be mighty appreciated Dave Julia Say wrote: On 5 Apr 2010, Dave S wrote: Does anyone have a list of the open tunes and the year they were used for competition (where) going back 50 years ? Dave: Do you mean the set tunes - ones which were compulsory for every competitor? Goodness knows what I said 15 years ago - I'm having trouble with 15 minutes ago! Not all competitions had set tunes, and even for those that did, I think there's unlikely to be a continuous record. I doubt if there's even a record of whether they had set tunes or not at different venues. Finding the info for the NPS comps would entail reading through the last 50 years of minutes and seeing how many years the discussions include a record of set tunes. Free choice comps would be down to individuals who've jotted this info down pooling their resources to get some sort of record, which is a tall order. But if anyone wants to take it on.. Julia No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.800 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2792 - Release Date: 04/05/10 08:32:00 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pitch and kipper boxes
Sorry missed me B didn I Dave S wrote: Hi, arry mentioned between the nut and the bridge OK but if the nut gets tight does the pitch go up or down? ciao Dave To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2679 - Release Date: 02/10/10 08:40:00
[NSP] Re: bag shape
Hi Richard, Other slight annoyances occuring when messing with bags/neck is resonance or a change in the resistance to airflow. Some bag/neck shapes give rise to top A and top B sounding flat at which point the unsuspecting will start chopping or scraping reeds - BEWARE Dave Singleton Richard York wrote: I'd welcome comments/advice on nsp bag shape, please. There's the conventional shape, and now I learn there's the tear-drop shape. I've been playing other (non Scottish) bagpipes for quite a long time, with various shaped bags, from medieval/renaissance large tear drop, held more in front of the body, to nsp-like but bigger on Jon Swayne D border pipes, and have got used to comfortable with them. I'm still finding my way on nsp's... I suspect this is a life-long state... but find that after some 10 or so minutes of playing I'm getting a restricted left hand movement, as my arm's getting pressure from the bulge of the bag against my forearm where it restricts the blood flow or something; this is a problem I don't get with my other sets. I've tried varying my arm position/bag position/drone angle/position of jaw/general earth energy and leyline alignment etc, but haven't yet cracked the problem. It seems logical to expect that the tear-drop shape, with most of the bag further back under the arm, is going to leave my forearm more relaxed and less pressured. But until you've tried anything you don't know, and I'd like to hear from anyone who has, please, either positive or negative experience of this shape. With thanks, Richard. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2646 - Release Date: 01/26/10 08:46:00
[NSP] Re: the Guardian today....
Hi Anita, not being a Grauniad reader I have to guess the BAE is BEE Arable Entrepreneurs or some such biz Dave Singleton Anita Evans wrote: We're in trouble - according to a letter in the Guardian newspaper, BAE is 'racing to capture the domestic UK drones market' Anita No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2646 - Release Date: 01/26/10 08:46:00 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Not Piping
Hi Anthony, Windz 7 does not yet have sufficient drivers or debugging to be fully stable, and it will take a while for the third parties to write the low level drivers, when and if they get access to the system hooks. I suggest you boot from a win xp non-install (boot sys cd) cd or linux non-install cd and load the software you need via usb into a memory diskyou can delete it all by switching off. Or maybe get all portable software on USB to do your work. Lots of luck with ver 7 or just have patience cheers Dave Anthony Robb wrote: Both ide and sata harddrives are compatable. Therefore you may have a problem without a second internal harddrive. Adrian Thanks for that Adrian. I've also been told that fire-wire cards other than Texas instrument ones can be a problem. I think I might put the laptop idea on hold for a month or two!! Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.730 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2634 - Release Date: 01/20/10 10:12:00
[NSP] Re: Message to Chris Birch and Dave S
Yup -- that's the one beat me to it -- I was still looking for Jul's Thanks Dave S Dru Brooke-Taylor wrote: Is the tune on these links it? http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feierwon or http://lb.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier:De_Feierwon.png It's completely unfamiliar to me. Dru On 25 Nov 2009, at 14:28, neil smith wrote: Does either of you (or indeed anyone else) have the dots to De Feierwon? I know it was published years ago in Jul Christophory(?)'s book Mir schwatze Letzeburgesch but I've long since lost it. It occurs to me it would make a grand tune for a piping ensemble. Cheers, Neil __ Add other email accounts to Hotmail in 3 easy steps. [1]Find out how. -- References 1. http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/186394593/direct/01/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.82/2525 - Release Date: 11/25/09 08:31:00
[NSP] Re: schei greiss
Hi Anthony, This gives a perfect example, the letters you know but not in the order that I set them. You attempted a joke that some may find amusing, probably because your imagination could not crack the code. Perhaps this will soften your hardline stance on written things, you would have to be in Luxembourg for a couple of years to get to grips with its' language, but if you had a set of written crib cards it would be possible for you to start on the language from the comfort of your home. Now, to address your standpoint on dots, we need audio clues to help us try to imitate the sounds and eventually they stick in the audio soundbank. I do so agree, but not to the extent that you propose. Modern (new research) concert instrumentalists, starting as children now learn their instrument by ear for the first few years, when they have learnt the instrument and some of its' possibilities, they are introduced to the dots and in so doing create a happy medium and a happy player. In recent mails Tom Clough was reported to have said that Thomas Todd forbade him playing the melodyof the Barrington, he had first to learn the exercises (Julia; are there any random exercises kicking about?) -- some of us need the dots to see the exercises as we can't get to learn from an expert, there are not enough to go round. You know from your experience that it takes a lot of time to imprint a melody into the audiobank(brain). The older you get the longer it can take, some are lucky in that they already have enough to go on and merely refresh old memories, I envy their good fortune. We need the dots as memory helpers, us mortals wot don't concert or barn dance etc. We know we are mortals, so don't knock what you don't have the background to comprehend, you had it all around you all your life, us out here ain't got it and probably won't get it. I will try to be like the Philharmonic, they know their instrument, they have practiced, and they use their music for clues and memory assists, but they all play the conductors interpretation of the piece, emotion, speed, warts and all. I am still trying to learn about my pipes but for me it is a slow, fascinating process I hope will never end. I love them --- and without NSP dots I would be playing Boismortier, Corrette, Lullay, Rameau, Zweitackters, alouette, Himmelsmaerch, Mozart, etc etc Tra 4 now ( confirmed dots supporter) Dave S ( Anthony Robb wrote: Dave I did have one but the wheels fell off. Anthony --- On *Mon, 2/11/09, Dave S /david...@pt.lu/* wrote: From: Dave S david...@pt.lu Subject: [NSP] schei greiss To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Monday, 2 November, 2009, 7:23 PM Wunnerbar eppes vun déi schéi sprooch vun hei ze léiesen kriit's d'och schéi greiss vun Useldéng Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.424 / Virus Database: 270.14.45/2476 - Release Date: 11/02/09 07:51:00
[NSP] schei greiss
Wunnerbar eppes vun déi schéi sprooch vun hei ze léiesen kriit's d'och schéi greiss vun Useldéng Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: musical form
Responsorial ? rosspi...@aol.com wrote: Has anyone got the name of the musical form of the question and answer type that is the basis for sea shanties and our local song 'Dolly Ah' and more interestingly the two pipe tunes 'Lang Stayed Away' and 'Highland Laddie'(first two parts) in Peacock's Tunes. This is also the same as the 'waulking songs' from the Hebrides which can lead to great extensions of originality in the A and C parts of the A B C D form. Sounds as though it is an old pre industrial revolution form maybe linked to dance in some way. Colin R To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.112/2393 - Release Date: 09/24/09 18:00:00
[NSP] Re: Piping
Thanks Tony, Nice -- but watch out for the young ladies left wrist -- it's a prime candidate for RSI maybe a new fatter bag ??? regards Dave Anthony Robb wrote: Here's a bit choyt for the bairns. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg93tdh0Ms Anthony -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOg93tdh0Ms To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.82/2351 - Release Date: 09/07/09 06:40:00
[NSP] Re: Tune title spelling
Hi Julia, here's one --- [1]Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard Gaerdebylaaten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Aeppelbolaaten (Appelbolaten). I also have Nick Barber's English Choice . Julia Say wrote: Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike should go in the tune title APPELBOLATEN (it's Swedish). I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, and I don't trust either rendition. Thanks Julia To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - [3]www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 06:03 :00 -- References 1. http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=11309messages=18 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 3. http://www.avg.com/
[NSP] [Re: Tune title spelling]
X-Mozilla-Keys: Message-ID: 163-4a8b0cfc.1040...@pt.lu Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:20:12 +0200 From: Dave S david...@pt.lu User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.22 (Windows/20090605) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: julia@nspipes.co.uk, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: Re: [NSP] Tune title spelling References: 211-4a8b18e6.9698.28fc...@julia.say.nspipes.co.uk In-Reply-To: 211-4a8b18e6.9698.28fc...@julia.say.nspipes.co.uk Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=010300060808050307080104 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --010300060808050307080104 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Julia, here's one --- Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid309messages Gärdebylåten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Äppelbolåten (/Appelbolaten/). I also have Nick Barber's English Choice *.* Julia Say wrote: Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike should go in the tune title APPELBOLATEN (it's Swedish). I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, and I don't trust either rendition. Thanks Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 06:03:00 --010300060808050307080104 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !DOCTYPE html PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN html head meta content=text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type title/title /head body bgcolor=#ff text=#00 Hi Julia,br br here's one ---br h3 class=ra href=http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid309amp;messages class=l onmousedown=return clk(this.href,'','','res','5','')Tune Req: Ganglat Fran Mockfjard/a/h3 Gauml;rdebylaring;ten appears in this book on the same page as another popular Swedish Tune Auml;ppelbolaring;ten (emAppelbolaten/em). I also have Nick Barber's English Choice b./bbr br Julia Say wrote: blockquote cite=mid:211-4a8b18e6.9698.28fc...@julia.say.nspipes.co.uk type=cite pre wrap=Can anyone tell me where the letters with dots over and suchlike should go in the tune title APPELBOLATEN (it's Swedish). I have it handwritten, twice and differently, from various sources, and I don't trust either rendition. Thanks Julia To get on or off this list see list information at a class=moz-txt-link-freetext href=http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html;http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html/a/pre pre wrap= hr size=4 width=90% No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - a class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href=http://www.avg.com;www.avg.com/a Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/18/09 06:03:00 /pre /blockquote /body /html --010300060808050307080104-- --
[NSP] list stuff
yup well said, both Colin and Philip It does seem that the tension, verve and perspicacity have dwindled somewhat, what we need is someone to put a bit of dino in the - list again ds Philip Gruar wrote: Well said colin (Hill, of course) I have been reading this list (both lists) over the past month with a growing sense of detatchment and loss of interest. I wonder if I can really be bothered to open any new message, and very likely read yet more griping and point-scoring, or whether just to hit the delete button, and send NPS and NSP alike to join all the other spam. We have had the endless what is proper piping? debate yet again (have the Taliban got an internet discussion list about true Islam, I wonder? If so it must be very similar), continuing point-scoring about the presidency, about the society rules or lack of them, pipe-makers and pipe-making books and what the society has/hasn't/should/shouldn't have done about them, and now this latest extraordinary outburst. The suggested distinction between NPS discussion and NSP (Dartmouth) list isn't really being observed, often because the subject matter applies to both. Personally, I don't bother to look closely at the acronym to see what list a posting is meant for, I still read them all - and I'm sure most of us who have subscribed to both do the same. I used to follow the discussions with interest, and often contribute to them, but the level of debate recently (with a few honourable exceptions) has sunk so low I'm tempted to unsubscribe from both lists. Letting my Society subsciption lapse sometimes seems like a good idea too. Please can we have a Summer recess, or a moratorium or something, and all come back refreshed and nicer people, ready to discuss piping and its music tolerantly and positively? Can we also drop the (failed?) experiment of the NPS discussion list. Some of us ordinary members really don't care any more about the Society's internal battles. Just fight it out among yourselves and let us know the result by old-fashioned snail-mail newsletter when all the blood has been cleaned up. Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Peacock
Hi Ross, Thanks very much for the thought !! very useful Dave Singleton Ross Anderson wrote: I've scanned Peacock and put it online at http://www.piob.info. I worked from Francis Wood's copy, for the loan of which I'm very grateful. I'm sure Google Books would have got round to it eventually and I hope that the Society will eventually reprint it in the traditional size so it'll fit conveniently in my pipe case. But here at least is a version to be going on with. Enjoy! Ross Anderson To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.93/2206 - Release Date: 06/27/09 17:55:00
[NSP] Re: re notes v. ear
Richard Evans wrote: Philip Gruar wrote: I'm sure everybody with a so-called classical music training here (and jazz or whatever) - i.e. anyone for whom the purely mechanical act of reading written music is completely second nature, does the reading without consciously thinking about doing it. This is the basis of my problem of course- no formal musical training whatsoever! Too late now methinks. Cheers Richard Hi -- one or two cents worth, No one has so far mention the fact that classical musicians usually have an ally waving a stick and hands giving them the colour, speeds and breathing life into the piece they are playing -- namely his interpretation of what the COMPOSER wished to convey from the dots, with all its' written dynamics - sadly unavailable on most bagpipes - so stop trying to put down one side or the other, we have, do and will continue to have two separate methodologies-- they both have a valid raison d'etre both supply a much needed service and occasionally one or the other crosses over and makes a splash Vive la difference vive la musique Dave S To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Peacock’s Tunes Facsimile
I,m sure it's online somewhere Francis, but my question is who actually learnt these tunes from the tradition --- ie from someone who learnt them from someone whose knew someone who learnt from Peacock ? do we have anyone -- if so could they please set up a master class Dave S (Tongue In Cheek) Francis Wood wrote: I too have a copy of the Peacocks Tunes Facsimile, 'falling apart but treasured as Matt has said, after nearly 30 years of use. Second-hand copies of this are hard to find and although the later NPS edition in standard format is extremely useful, the facsimile has its own particular interest. Perhaps the NPS might consider re-issuing this Old Testament of piping one day. Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.61/2167 - Release Date: 06/10/09 05:52:00
[NSP] Re: this list is safer now
Is it really this dead after the what me mail ? or has a lurgy got settled Dave S Wayne Cripps wrote: I should also add that the NSP mail list can no longer transmit computer viruses. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.37/2130 - Release Date: 05/23/09 07:00:00
[NSP] Re: F.a.o. Francis others
I sincerely hope this is not meant to have the xenophobic overtones that can be read between the lines --- there are many avid fans of NSP who have no chance of getting to listen to the present interpretation of the tradition -- they only have cd ,mp3, etc surely this is not tradition. Jack Armstrong appeared to have tuned out and away from the tradition, and revealed a surprisingly modish way of playing, but unfortuneatly, unless the dead pipers can supply us with more of this it is lost to the tradition --- the dots allow the tradition to be recovered when insular players die off without training a disciple - flame on Dave Singleton Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Francis I am well aware of Colin's abrasive nature and have disagreed with him over details of the repertoire and other issues, but he is a rare beast in that he understands that we are dealing with a fundamentally oral tradition here. A tradition that needs to be learnt through 90% listening and 10% playing. If the dots are used they need to be informed by true insight into the nuances displayed within the spectrum of traditional players. It seems that this approach is not fully appreciated by all in authority in our Society and that worries quite a few of us. As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [NSP] F.a.o. Francis others To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 7:54 PM On 26 May 2009, at 16:53, Anthony Robb wrote: Mmmma| rather harsh Francis. Hello Anthony, I'm not sure I've really tried 'harsh' . . . 'Robust' might do quite well. I'd add 'fair'. We'll probably not agree on that one. Francis P. S. I'll leave it to anyone else to respond point by point to Anthony's mail if they have a mind to do so. I'd advise adherence to known facts, awareness that the issue is not only painful but complex, some regard for the integrity of those people who have already posted thoughtfully and carefully on this subject and above all, due consideration for the welfare of the person this is really all about. May I also reiterate my confidence in the NPS Committee and their decision. I base this on my knowledge of the people serving on the Committee and my admiration of their integrity and administrative abilities. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
[NSP] Re: What oil to use?
Francis -- how about neck oil for the many and gunpowder lapsong for the few Dave Francis Wood wrote: Can anybody suggest a suitable oil to pour on these troubled waters? Ideally, it should be capable of spreading evenly and fairly as well as making the tone of everything seem much brighter. Should lubricate roughened areas. Capable of curing squeaks as well as growls, howls and other distressing noises. Must be totally non-imflammable. Non-oxidising would be nice too. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.39/2134 - Release Date: 05/25/09 18:14:00
[NSP] no warranty
oops guarranttee or so To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution
Barry, There used to be a site run by Gerit Raith having plans for a cornemuse in F (alto kortholt) but I can't seem to track it down -- if you are interested in this windcap instrument I may be a ble to dig out the plans from an archive I have somewhere -- let me know if you would like me to search for them -- Ciao Dave S Barry Say wrote: I am writing a reply to Malcolm's message, but in the meantime, I have a related question which I hope that readers of this list can help with. The Northumbrian Smallpipes are unusual in that they have a very small bore compared to other instruments. Also, the tone holes are often the same size as the bore. Is anyone aware of any other wind instruments contemporary or historical which have a bore comparable with the smallpipes or tone holes about the size of the bore? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1985 - Release Date: 03/05/09 07:54:00
[NSP] Re: malcom's final solution
Hi all, AFAIK modifying the cone of the staple (and to a lesser extent the angle of the reed blades) WILL change the position of the notes on the top half more than the bottom half of the chanter, so go figure - new staple conicity -- new hole positions --- DON'T EVER FORGET THE VALUE OF A GOOD REED --- coupled with a good ear !! have fun Dave S Gibbons, John wrote: The survey may not tell Malcolm as much as he hopes. As well as 'where are the holes?' we also need to know 'is the note sharp or flat?'. It's not just size that matters - internal shape does too, as if a hole is significantly undercut, it will affect the pitch. And the bore of the chanter, the nature of the plug in the end. And have the pipes been altered by anyone since the maker sold them? And customers, if there's a maker currently producing pipes with difficult or out of tune hole spacings, need to know who it is. John -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of rosspi...@aol.com Sent: 06 March 2009 10:42 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] malcom's final solution I have published in my Technical Advisors report in the forthcoming Newsletter a list of hole positions with diameters as the result of my own research into the tuning of chanters that is the result of forty years pipemaking and which is about 90% right. I think that Malcom should name the makers he is accusing of changing the hole positions, and if he thinks he can come up with a Unversal Theory of chanter making then he should think of helping Stephen Hawkin with his problem with arriving at a final theory. Learning to spell might be a start. CR -Original Message- From: malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 9:59 Subject: [NSP] Re: Obit for JIm Bryan Dear pipers; As a learner not just to pipe making but all things pipes I have come accross a phenomenon perculier to Northumbrian Smallpipes in particular. After asking around all and sundry to the point of being a pest about tone hole positions I have arrived, after six years of research to this conclusion. There are pipe makers that even after donkeys years of making pipes change the tone hole positions to suit the reed being used at the time for whatever reason. I have umpteen different tone hole positions from makers and developers like Clough to Reid and many recent makers and all of them are different regardless of pitch and bore. Prevelent makers changing these positions as much as three times in a two year period. As a result I am asking everyone willing to take part in my survey to measure your Northumbrian Smallpipes tone hole positions and send them to me so that the results can be published here when completed. It is not my intention to embarrass anyone and the maker can be kept confidential if you wish, although I would rather know the maker too but rather to aid the development of our instrument if possible for future generations in attempting to consolidate the tone hole positions. As far as I know, this kind of thing has not been done for a very long time and since then, there has been thousands of pipes made worldwide. This of course will give more data to work with and a better average to arrive at any sensible sort of conclusion. Anyone willing to help not just me but yourselves in the long run will be required to measure the following; Give length and bore if possible, pitch, maker, aproximate year made, material (timber if known) and the tone holes ,measured from the very top of the chanter to the centre of the hole. Lastly but equaly important is the size of each tone hole as some may be as much as 1/2 elongated. Measurements to be as careful as possible and in metric. (if you do not have metric or can not use it then of course imperial) Thank you Malcolm Sargeant. -- Julia.Say wrote : Hi, list Apparently there was an obit. for Jim Bryan in Weds. Daily Telegraph. It hasn't appeared on their website - although others from the same day have. Does anyone read this paper, and could supply a copy for the NPS scrapbook? Thanks JUlia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- This message was sent on behalf of malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/11606352.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.8/1985 - Release Date: 03/05/09 07:54:00
