RE: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
Graydon == Graydon Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Graydon On the topic of truing one's wheels, I had put off Graydon attending Bruce Timmerman's wheel building classes - Graydon until it was too late(bless his soul); does anyone know Graydon of similar classes put on by anyone even remotely Graydon experienced as Bruce. Well, if you have the time, buy The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt and do it yourself. See http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html It'll take you a while to get your first wheel done right but after that, it's a snap. You will need a truing stand and a dishing tool. Save some money and don't bother with the fancy Park self centering truing stand. Use 14-15 guage double-butted spokes. I've never had trouble with the wheels that I have built (except one with some useless and expensive bladed spokes - grumble). ..greg -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
I agree with Greg. Don't bother with the bike shop, except for buying parts, and build your own wheel. If you stay away from fancy/trendy patterns. It's pretty easy. I would recommend the Mavic T519 rim for 28mm tires and up. It's lighter then the Sun and probably stronger too. I've never had any trouble with Mavic rims for touring. I'm about 90 kg these days. But in the old days of the lean cycling machine I was below 80kg but usually carried 20kg of stuff around (a good book, real coffee, camping gear, camera with 2 extra lenses etc). No problemo. I've put the T519 on my new touring bike. Here's a few tricks that worked for me. - Don't go for less than 36 spokes. I don't think you need 40 or 48 spoke wheels. - Get a good hub. I have good experience with XT hubs for touring. - Use double butted 14/15 spokes for the front wheel and the non-drive sidein the rear wheel, - Use 13/14 single butted (Wheelsmith DH13, hard to get) or 14 plain on the drive side, This gives you a better balance in spoke tension. - Put brass washers under the spoke heads if necessary, see http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm - For ultimate strength, use DT Alpine3 left and DH13 right (not available in Canada in road lengths). - Put the pulling spokes on the inside of the hub. - Make sure the spokes on the outside of the hub are stress relieved. That means bend them a bit around the hub so that they point to the spoke hole in the rim. This is VERY important. - put a bit of (non-lithium) grease or vaseline on the spoke thread. - For the right spoke length, see http://www.dtswiss.com - Use cloth rim tape (check McCranks on Bank) I wouldn't mind helping you but I'm getting married in 1.5 weeks and away cycling for another 5 after that. So no time before mid november. I haven't read Jobst Brand's book but Bertrand (the brothers) has it in stock. Good luck, Menno Greg Franks wrote: Graydon == Graydon Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Graydon On the topic of truing one's wheels, I had put off Graydon attending Bruce Timmerman's wheel building classes - Graydon until it was too late(bless his soul); does anyone know Graydon of similar classes put on by anyone even remotely Graydon experienced as Bruce. Well, if you have the time, buy The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt and do it yourself. See http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html It'll take you a while to get your first wheel done right but after that, it's a snap. You will need a truing stand and a dishing tool. Save some money and don't bother with the fancy Park self centering truing stand. Use 14-15 guage double-butted spokes. I've never had trouble with the wheels that I have built (except one with some useless and expensive bladed spokes - grumble). ..greg -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- Menno Spijker phone: (613) 270-7639 Senior IC Designer fax: (613) 592-1010 Zarlink Semiconductor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ottawa, Canada http://www.zarlink.com -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
Forgot one: use the old fashioned cross 3 lace pattern. Menno Menno Spijker wrote: I agree with Greg. Don't bother with the bike shop, except for buying parts, and build your own wheel. If you stay away from fancy/trendy patterns. It's pretty easy. I would recommend the Mavic T519 rim for 28mm tires and up. It's lighter then the Sun and probably stronger too. I've never had any trouble with Mavic rims for touring. I'm about 90 kg these days. But in the old days of the lean cycling machine I was below 80kg but usually carried 20kg of stuff around (a good book, real coffee, camping gear, camera with 2 extra lenses etc). No problemo. I've put the T519 on my new touring bike. Here's a few tricks that worked for me. - Don't go for less than 36 spokes. I don't think you need 40 or 48 spoke wheels. - Get a good hub. I have good experience with XT hubs for touring. - Use double butted 14/15 spokes for the front wheel and the non-drive sidein the rear wheel, - Use 13/14 single butted (Wheelsmith DH13, hard to get) or 14 plain on the drive side, This gives you a better balance in spoke tension. - Put brass washers under the spoke heads if necessary, see http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm - For ultimate strength, use DT Alpine3 left and DH13 right (not available in Canada in road lengths). - Put the pulling spokes on the inside of the hub. - Make sure the spokes on the outside of the hub are stress relieved. That means bend them a bit around the hub so that they point to the spoke hole in the rim. This is VERY important. - put a bit of (non-lithium) grease or vaseline on the spoke thread. - For the right spoke length, see http://www.dtswiss.com - Use cloth rim tape (check McCranks on Bank) I wouldn't mind helping you but I'm getting married in 1.5 weeks and away cycling for another 5 after that. So no time before mid november. I haven't read Jobst Brand's book but Bertrand (the brothers) has it in stock. Good luck, Menno -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
I don't think Lynne will find me very romantic studying the art of building wheels on our honeymoon. :-) Also, I don't think the OBC would appreciate it if I return it the way my books usually come out of the panniers after a couple of weeks. I'll save it for a winter evening. Avery Burdett wrote: Menno Spijker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: .. snip... I haven't read Jobst Brand's book but Bertrand (the brothers) has it in stock. Menno, take it with you on your honeymoon, you may need it :-) There's a copy in the OBC lending library. ... snip -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
Graydon I know of someone who is one dymanic wheel builder, unfortunately she is in Mississauga. I was impressed with what she showed me. Mom on a Bike Graydon Patterson wrote: On the topic of truing one's wheels, I had put off attending Bruce Timmerman's wheel building classes - until it was too late(bless his soul); does anyone know of similar classes put on by anyone even remotely experienced as Bruce. I have pretty much built, and rebuilt, all components of my bikes except for the wheels. And my fat little body plays havoc with busting spokes on my beater bikes. I am very happy with the carbon wheels I use on my good bike. -Original Message- From: Roger Guillemette [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 23:08 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel Greg's point is well taken. The breakage of spokes on new rear wheels can be due to poor construction, new spokes loosening up, or weight extremes (such as carrying heavily laden panniers with groceries on or touring gear). Judging from your description Derek, it may be just loosening of new spokes which aren't being attended to. This problem increases with wider gear blocks (i.e. 9 or 10 cogs on back versus 6 or 7 cogs). On new wheels you should always monitor and re-tighten any loosening spokes and re-true frequently. I just rode a new bike home from the store the other day, and the rear wheel was out of true by the time I got home. It's got a 9-gear cog block, and the spokes on the non-cog side tend to loosen up very easily because it's impossible to tighten them very much without taking the rim out of dish. Hope this is useful. Greg Franks wrote: dbarlas == dbarlas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] dbarlas on which I had the rear wheel rebuilt late last year with dbarlas 14g DT spokes. I have since put about 4000kms on the bike dbarlas and it has now started breaking spokes again. I dont dbarlas think I am particularly rough on the bike - I weigh anout dbarlas 190 lbs and only ride on the road. I got the bike in the dbarlas summer of 2000. [snip] dbarlas spokes. Does that sound reasonable? If anyone has any dbarlas other recommendations for wheels, or general wheel dbarlas advice, I would love to hear them. You didn't say where the spokes were breaking. Believe it or not, thinner spokes (higher gauge) often result in stronger wheels. Make sure your existing wheel is rebuilt with double-butted spokes*, or that the new wheel comes with double butted spokes. I weigh more than you do, and the only spoke breakage that I've encountered was during a certain tandem ride years ago :-) (though the poor wheel was rather pretzeled prior to the breakage problems, so we sure knew why the wheel was failing :-). Try to find/buy a copy of The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt. It explains everything that you might every care to know about bicycle wheels and then some. You might try rebuilding your wheel yourself. ..greg * a technically incorrect term -- spokes aren't butted, they're swaged (sp?). -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- Roger Guillemette Website: http://www.bigfoot.com/~roger_guillemette -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
Menno Spijker ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: .. snip... I haven't read Jobst Brand's book but Bertrand (the brothers) has it in stock. Menno, take it with you on your honeymoon, you may need it :-) There's a copy in the OBC lending library. ... snip Greg Franks wrote: Graydon == Graydon Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Graydon On the topic of truing one's wheels, I had put off Graydon attending Bruce Timmerman's wheel building classes - Graydon until it was too late(bless his soul); does anyone know Graydon of similar classes put on by anyone even remotely Graydon experienced as Bruce. Well, if you have the time, buy The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt and do it yourself. See http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html -- Avery Burdett Ottawa, Ontario -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
Roger Guillemette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes: Greg's point is well taken. The breakage of spokes on new rear wheels can be due to poor construction, new spokes loosening up, or weight extremes (such as carrying heavily laden panniers with groceries on or touring gear). Judging from your description Derek, it may be just loosening of new spokes which aren't being attended to. This problem increases with wider gear blocks (i.e. 9 or 10 cogs on back versus 6 or 7 cogs). This may or may not be a contributing factor. The problem is the ratio of the tensions in the non-drive side spokes compared to the drive side spokes, which is in the opposite proportion to the angle of the spokes from the vertical (to be really fussy, it's actually WRT to the sine of the angle, but there's not much difference at the angles we are discussing). As the gear manufacturers gave us more cogs, the hub manufacturers increased the width of the hubs - 120 mm for 5 speed, 126 mm 6 speed, 130 mm 7 speed, and I think 135 mm for 8 9. These figures are for road wheels - mountain bike wheels have frequently been one increment wider. This is one way that the manufacturers have sought to reduce the imbalance in spoke tensions. In addition, on many recent hubs the non-drive side flange is considerably further from the dropout than used to be the case with the traditional 5 speed hub. The critical factor is the ratio of the distances of the two flanges from the centreline of the hub. So for any given number of cogs and width of hub, the hub with the non-drive side flange furthest from the dropout would be the one with the least differential tensions between the spokes on the two sides. As always there are other negative effects that follow from this SNIP -- Peter James Ottawa, Ontario -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
You didn't mention the size of tires you ride. This is very important in wheel durability. I'm heavier than you, ride more than you and I haven't broken a spoke for 2 decades. The quality of the wheel build is everything. Just using good materials isn't enough. Sun Rhino rims are overkill unless you're planning a world tour. They are very heavy and necessitate use of 35cc+ tires. Tell me the neighbourhood you live (so maybe I can recommend a shop) and the width of tire you like to use. PGY - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 8:31 PM Subject: [obc] advice on new rear wheel Hi, Thought I would ask the general advice of the group on buying a new rear wheel for my road bike. I have been having increasing problems with breaking spokes on my rear wheel. I ride a Schwinn Supersport (piece of junk!) on which I had the rear wheel rebuilt late last year with 14g DT spokes. I have since put about 4000kms on the bike and it has now started breaking spokes again. I dont think I am particularly rough on the bike - I weigh anout 190 lbs and only ride on the road. I got the bike in the summer of 2000. Rather than pay the $50 or so to have the wheel re-strung again, I was thinking about just getting a new rear wheel. One bicycle shop quoted me approx $100 for a new wheel with Sun Rhino rim, Deore hub and DT spokes. Does that sound reasonable? If anyone has any other recommendations for wheels, or general wheel advice, I would love to hear them. Thanks, Derek Barlas __ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [obc] advice on new rear wheel
Greg's point is well taken. The breakage of spokes on new rear wheels can be due to poor construction, new spokes loosening up, or weight extremes (such as carrying heavily laden panniers with groceries on or touring gear). Judging from your description Derek, it may be just loosening of new spokes which aren't being attended to. This problem increases with wider gear blocks (i.e. 9 or 10 cogs on back versus 6 or 7 cogs). On new wheels you should always monitor and re-tighten any loosening spokes and re-true frequently. I just rode a new bike home from the store the other day, and the rear wheel was out of true by the time I got home. It's got a 9-gear cog block, and the spokes on the non-cog side tend to loosen up very easily because it's impossible to tighten them very much without taking the rim out of dish. Hope this is useful. Greg Franks wrote: dbarlas == dbarlas [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] dbarlas on which I had the rear wheel rebuilt late last year with dbarlas 14g DT spokes. I have since put about 4000kms on the bike dbarlas and it has now started breaking spokes again. I dont dbarlas think I am particularly rough on the bike - I weigh anout dbarlas 190 lbs and only ride on the road. I got the bike in the dbarlas summer of 2000. [snip] dbarlas spokes. Does that sound reasonable? If anyone has any dbarlas other recommendations for wheels, or general wheel dbarlas advice, I would love to hear them. You didn't say where the spokes were breaking. Believe it or not, thinner spokes (higher gauge) often result in stronger wheels. Make sure your existing wheel is rebuilt with double-butted spokes*, or that the new wheel comes with double butted spokes. I weigh more than you do, and the only spoke breakage that I've encountered was during a certain tandem ride years ago :-) (though the poor wheel was rather pretzeled prior to the breakage problems, so we sure knew why the wheel was failing :-). Try to find/buy a copy of The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt. It explains everything that you might every care to know about bicycle wheels and then some. You might try rebuilding your wheel yourself. ..greg * a technically incorrect term -- spokes aren't butted, they're swaged (sp?). -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter -- Roger Guillemette Website: http://www.bigfoot.com/~roger_guillemette -- To unsubscribe, send a blank message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Club Office: [EMAIL PROTECTED], (613) 230-1064 Web/mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb Newsletter: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cyberus.ca/~obcweb/Newsletter ==^ EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aVxiDo.a2i8p1 Or send an email To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email was sent to: archive@jab.org T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
