Re: [ANNOUNCE] Community and Developer Wikis Now Available
Hi, Le 21 juin 11 à 00:13, Dave Fisher a écrit : Anonymous viewing is allowed. In order to create content sign up for a confluence wiki account at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/signup.action If you have an apache.org email address it is easiest for us for you to use it for the wiki. The Community wiki is for everyone. The community wiki is the perfect place for the Education Project. One main goal of the Education Project was to provide code, as OpenOffice.org developer myself. The Developers wiki is for project planning and documentation. Permission to create content must be limited to the Podling PMC, OOo committers, Foundation Members, and those who have signed an ICLA (http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt). To be authorized, once you have signed up for the wiki, please request access rights by replying to this email with your ID. Are people willing to contribute to the developer wiki forced to sign the ICLA ? Why if it is, as written above, for project planning and documentation ? Anything that might become part of a release must be Apache Licensed. By signing the ICLA you acknowledge that you are contributing what you have the right to contribute. If you want to contribute, but don't want to sign an ICLA go ahead and use the Community Wiki. Even for a wiki ? I won't sign any *LA. Sorry, I was wrong to believe it could be possible to contribute without sign that. Think of it like this the developer wiki is behind the IP/Licensing Firewall and the community wiki is in the DMZ at a similar level of IP control to bugzilla, the mailing list and user forums. Sorry, the language was unfortunate and I should have explained the Community Wiki is the place for Community Planning. No problem, I won't bother anymore. Good luck with Apache OpenOffice.org Eric Bachard -- qɔᴉɹə Education Project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news
Some more strange files in the OOo code
Hi, some more strange files I found in the OOo code: (1) boost/Regex_Experimental.tar.gz Should be unpacked and committed or removed. (2) connectivity/workben/TT/StartTest.class Binary file committed to the repository; I doubt that we want to have that in the Apache repo. As it is only test code, we can check that later. Would be nice to know what this is nevertheless. There is a java file with the same name in this folder. (3) dtrans/source/os2/clipb/OS2Bitmap.cxx * This code is property of Serenity Systems Intl * All rights reserverd. We should remove that (and IMHO the whole OS/2 port) from our sources. (4) More binary files in our code extensions/test/ole/EventListenerSample/VBEventListener/VBasicEventListener.dll xmerge/source/activesync/BIN/xmergesync.dll I doubt that we want to have them in the repository, or ... ? (5) A header from GNU c library hwpfilter/source/ksc5601.h Are we allowed to use it in the build? (6) Header files only with Copyright header, but no license twain/inc/twain.h ucb/source/ucp/odma/odma.h (7) MPL headers xmlsecurity/source/xmlsec/nss/nssrenam.h It's only a header - I assume that because we can't use nss anyway this header file is obsolete also. (8) Regexp regexp/source/reclass.hxx regexp/source/reclass.cxx A complete mess, IMHO. Comments welcome. Regards, Mathias
Re: Files generated by Visual Studio
From my experience with such files they are not really generated files in a sense that you have a source file, a build tool and a generated target file. They are basically templates, generated from a user interface wizard. In some cases you will not edit such templates as they serve your needs for simple tasks. I may be wrong on this but I doubt that there are command line tools available to create a single stdafx.h or foobar.rc. Sure it would be easy to write one but then it would also be based on a template file. I agree with Greg that MS would never attempt to claim copyright and I don't think these files deserve more attention by creating a custom build tool. More trouble than it is worth. Just my .02€ Christian /me wonders when the fruitless discussion of top-posting vs bottom-posting kicks in... Am 21.06.2011 09:10, schrieb Greg Stein: I seriously doubt that Microsoft would attempt to claim copyright on outputs from their tools. Their entire ecosystem would crumble if they tried to claim such ownership. My issue is with putting *any* generated files into version control. That just doesn't make sense because it means that you can get skew between the inputs and the (checked-in) outputs. Each developer should be generating the outputs based on whatever inputs are in their working copy. That ensures that the outputs are always synchronized. Cheers, -g On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 03:05, Andor Eeymux2...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, about half of this stuff looks, like it was autogenerated by Visual Studio. Especially the StdAfx.* files. This might put them under a Microsoft copyright. Greetings eymux On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 8:47 AM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: Hi, we have some files that have been generated by Visual C++ and then checked in for the build (if modified or unmodified - I don't know). I assume that theses files are owned by the developer that created it and so have an Oracle copyright (either through creation of a Sun/Oracle employee or by contributing it under SCA). I just wanted to give a chance for discussion before I put them on the list of Oracle files: desktop/win32/source/QuickStart/OOQuickStart.rc desktop/win32/source/QuickStart/StdAfx.h embedserv/source/embed/stdafx.cpp embedserv/source/inc/stdafx.h extensions/source/activex/main/resource.h extensions/source/activex/main/so_activex.rc extensions/source/activex/main/StdAfx2.cpp extensions/source/activex/main/StdAfx2.h extensions/test/ole/EventListenerSample/EventListener/EventListener.rc extensions/test/ole/EventListenerSample/EventListener/resource.h extensions/test/ole/EventListenerSample/EventListener/StdAfx.cpp extensions/test/ole/EventListenerSample/EventListener/StdAfx.h extensions/test/ole/MfcControl/MfcControl.rc extensions/test/ole/MfcControl/Resource.h extensions/test/ole/MfcControl/StdAfx.cpp extensions/test/ole/MfcControl/StdAfx.h fpicker/source/win32/filepicker/Fps.rc fpicker/source/win32/filepicker/resource.h odk/examples/OLE/activex/StdAfx2.cpp odk/examples/OLE/activex/StdAfx2.h sal/workben/clipboardwben/testcopy/resource.h sal/workben/clipboardwben/testcopy/StdAfx.cpp sal/workben/clipboardwben/testcopy/StdAfx.h sal/workben/clipboardwben/testpaste/cbptest.rc sal/workben/clipboardwben/testpaste/resource.h sal/workben/clipboardwben/testpaste/StdAfx.cpp sal/workben/clipboardwben/testpaste/StdAfx.h sal/workben/clipboardwben/testviewer/cbvtest.rc sal/workben/clipboardwben/testviewer/resource.h sal/workben/clipboardwben/testviewer/StdAfx.cpp sal/workben/clipboardwben/testviewer/StdAfx.h xmerge/source/activesync/resource.h xmerge/source/activesync/stdafx.cpp xmerge/source/activesync/stdafx.h xmerge/source/activesync/XMergeSync.rc Regards, Mathias
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
(4) More binary files in our code extensions/test/ole/EventListenerSample/VBEventListener/VBasicEventListener.dll Others have wanted this file to be deleted since 2003! :-) http://openoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22738 Maybe it should be moved to the wiki, or the SDK, as a sample, and in source form only? http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=76592 xmerge/source/activesync/BIN/xmergesync.dll This one appears to be related to this: http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/ There's another binary download (JAR) on this page: http://xml.openoffice.org/xmerge/downloads/index.html I doubt that we want to have them in the repository, or ... ?
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Community and Developer Wikis Now Available
Am 20.06.2011 23:30, schrieb Dave Fisher: Announcement - two confluence wikis are now available for the Apache OpenOffice.org project. The Apache OpenOffice.org Community Wiki is at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/ The Apache OpenOffice.org Developers Wiki is at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOODEV/ Anonymous viewing is allowed. In order to create content sign up for a confluence wiki account at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/signup.action If you have an apache.org email address it is easiest for us for you to use it for the wiki. The Community wiki is for everyone. The Developers wiki is for project planning and documentation. So where does user documentation content go? The community wiki says that it would not be for core developer documentation. What does this term mean? I assume that all documentation content on the current OOo wiki including the Developer's Guide is to be placed on the community wiki? Frank
RE: Some more strange files in the OOo code - the Ghost of ODMA Past
Oh dear, my past comes along to haunt me. If you go to the home page, http://odma.info, you'll see that the other Downloads link is to ODMA License 1.0 (modeled on the BSD License). If you look in the lower right hand corner of the license page, you'll know why I should be hiding behind the sofa. We pulled this together in 2004 because someone was concerned about using those headers and redistributing the ODMA 2.0 Connection Manager. I think it was Michael Meeks, but we didn't know what he needed it for. I notice that there are still dialogs in LibreOffice to control whether ODMA dialogs are used or not. I did some tests at one point and discovered that the code was brittle and didn't adapt to the absence of ODMA support the way it is supposed to. That was 3-4 years ago and I haven't tested a *Office.org drop since. I think I also fumbled an e-mail exchange with the developer. (Tor Lillqvist, last communication in March 2008.) The only complaint you might get is from folks who rely on the integration of *Office.org with Groupwise, wherever it might still be running. I think the current ODMA code in *Office.org is basically enough to work in a Groupwise configuration and chancy otherwise. But don't take my word for it, I don't follow these products any longer. If I had to prioritize, I would recommend CMIS integration first, keep rounding the edges on WebDAV support, and I don't know what to say about Groupwise via ODMA. - Dennis BACK STORY, EXCESSIVE DETAILS The site is still mine though. I've never modified the headers to mention the license, although I have a partly-refactored set of headers that work better, if I dare to say it. Incomplete work. The ODMA SDK is not what you really need. You need to dynamically load the ODMA Connection Manager, if it is present, and bind only the entry points you need, especially because you may have a down-level Connection Manager or it may be connecting you to a down-level DMS integration. Also, you need to be prepared to fail to find that there is a DMS configured for working with swriter (the usual app) even though the ODMA Connection manager is present on the system. It is all about negotiation and dynamic binding and the SDK doesn't address that at all. (Think of ODMA as TWAIN for document management back in early client-server days.) There are even exposed COM interfaces that might fit with UNO, although the C Language bindings and the COM interfaces have some odd semantic differences. (I built a COM binary-interface static-library wrapper for ODMA that needs to be refactored, but it worked well enough to provide Java access to ODMA via JNI.) You can use the header file(s), or an improved derivative of the headers (and I might be coaxed), but the SDK doesn't tell the real story for a production integration. The .lib is not what you want to statically bind into your program, and the only other material consists of two mildly defective samples good for a little smoke testing but not much else. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kai Sommerfeld [mailto:kai.sommerf...@gmx.de] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 00:57 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code Hi, On 21.06.11 09:25, Mathias Bauer wrote: Hi, some more strange files I found in the OOo code: [...] (6) Header files only with Copyright header, but no license [...] ucb/source/ucp/odma/odma.h The ODMA stuff is not even build. Seems, that the copyrighted header file was accidentally checked in by me back in 2007 (shame!): 2007-06-05 INTEGRATION: CWS bgdlremove (1.4.240); FILE MERGED 2003-08-25 INTEGRATION: CWS abi4 (1.3.2); FILE ADDED 2002-02-22 don't check in the real file here - only point the people to the place to download file 2002-01-14 first revision for odma impl For now, we can remove the file (and even the whole ODMA stuff?). If we want to have ODMA support in OOo in the future, we should pull in the ODMA SDK (http://odma.info/downloads/#ODMA-20-SDK) like we do with every other external stuff we use. - Kai.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Community and Developer Wikis Now Available
Am 21.06.2011 11:06, schrieb Frank Peters: Am 20.06.2011 23:30, schrieb Dave Fisher: Announcement - two confluence wikis are now available for the Apache OpenOffice.org project. The Apache OpenOffice.org Community Wiki is at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/ The Apache OpenOffice.org Developers Wiki is at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOODEV/ Anonymous viewing is allowed. In order to create content sign up for a confluence wiki account at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/signup.action If you have an apache.org email address it is easiest for us for you to use it for the wiki. The Community wiki is for everyone. The Developers wiki is for project planning and documentation. So where does user documentation content go? The community wiki says that it would not be for core developer documentation. What does this term mean? I assume that all documentation content on the current OOo wiki including the Developer's Guide is to be placed on the community wiki? I think everything that is intended to be shipped with the product, needs to be in the OOODEV wiki at least to ensure it has the correct license for shipping. Right? Kind regards, Ingrid
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On 21 Jun 2011, at 09:29, Ian Lynch wrote: On 21 June 2011 09:07, Lee Fisher blib...@gmail.com wrote: (4) More binary files in our code extensions/test/ole/**EventListenerSample/**VBEventListener/** VBasicEventListener.dll Others have wanted this file to be deleted since 2003! :-) I suppose one advantage of this process is that it should improve the quality of the basic working code base (looking on the bright side :-) ) Certainly the code cleanup performed by the LibreOffice developers over the last 9 months has had a huge impact, both in terms of code footprint and performance. S.
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Community and Developer Wikis Now Available
Hi Eric, Am 21.06.2011 08:24, schrieb eric b: [...] I won't sign any *LA. Sorry, I was wrong to believe it could be possible to contribute without sign that. [...] No problem, I won't bother anymore. Good luck with Apache OpenOffice.org Eric Bachard I respect your will to not sign. This is your very own decision. Nevertheless I think you can do valuable contributions to this project. For example you could provide user experiences from the university or point your students to this project. Maybe they are willing to sign. You also can be the link to your own projects. I am convinced that your projects EducOO.org and OOo4Kids will benefit from a constructive cooperation too. Kind regards, Ingrid
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Community and Developer Wikis Now Available
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 2:24 AM, eric b eric.bach...@free.fr wrote: Even for a wiki ? I won't sign any *LA. Sorry, I was wrong to believe it could be possible to contribute without sign that. Note that this is not a copyright aggregation agreement like Sun/Oracle had. Have you read the Apache iCLA: http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt What part(s) of it did you find objectionable? -Rob
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 7:40 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org wrote: Can you provide any supporting data? Having some canonical metrics would also help in evaluating the future code rewrite that will have to be done at Apache. Did OOo have a specialized performance team? Are there any test definitions, measurement methodologies, etc., that we could adopt? -Rob
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:04 PM, Rob Weir wrote: Did OOo have a specialized performance team? Sort of, see http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Performance. -Stephan
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On 21.06.2011 12:15, Simon Phipps wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 08:25, Mathias Bauer wrote: (3) dtrans/source/os2/clipb/OS2Bitmap.cxx * This code is property of Serenity Systems Intl * All rights reserverd. We should remove that (and IMHO the whole OS/2 port) from our sources. It's possible Oracle have inherited a copyright assignment/license for this code from StarDivision which never resulted in the actual source being updated, in which case we could put it under AL. S. I opt for dropping OS/2 support completely. Regards, Mathias
Re: i18npool files from ICU
Do you know the origin of the IBM copyrighted files? Any indication of where they came from? Parts of this library ended up in the JDK, parts ended up in an IBM library, and eventually made it into an open source release. I can't easily determine whether these data files came from the open source version or from an earlier precursor project. So, I think the effort needed to track down the provenance of those files, along with the paper work needed at IBM to get approval for release under Apache 2.0, would be far greater than substituting the current ICU files. Note that I'm not asserting that IBM owns these files. I'm just saying that it is probably easier/faster to take the current ICU data files. -Rob On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Mathias Bauer mathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: Hi Rob, does that mean that you don't recommend to take the files from OOo (with IBM copyright remark) and start with those from the current ICU instead? Regards, Mathias On 21.06.2011 13:59, Rob Weir wrote: ICU is open source today: http://site.icu-project.org/ The license is the ICU License: http://source.icu-project.org/repos/icu/icu/trunk/license.html According to the ICU web site, ICU is used by several Apache projects, including: Harmony, Lucene, Solr, PDFBox, Tika, Xalan and Xerces If we use the latest version of the breakiterator data from ICU, it should be fine. -Rob On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: Hi, another bunch of files that needs some discussion are the data files in the i18npool module. These files have been created by a Sun developer, Karl Hong, based on ICU files. Some of these files contain an IBM copyright header, but no license: i18npool/source/breakiterator/data/* (CR by IBM) i18npool/source/collator/data/* i18npool/source/indexentry/data/* i18npool/source/localedata/data/* i18npool/source/textconversion/data/* So I think that the breakiterator data should be looked at by some guys from IBM, the latter can be move to the list of Oracle files. Regards, Mathias -- Mathias Bauer (mba) - Project Lead OpenOffice.org Writer OpenOffice.org Engineering at Oracle: http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS Please don't reply to nospamfor...@gmx.de. I use it for the OOo lists and only rarely read other mails sent to it.
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: --- On Tue, 6/21/11, Simon Phipps si...@webmink.com wrote: From: Simon Phipps si...@webmink.com ... On 21 Jun 2011, at 15:13, Mathias Bauer wrote: ... I opt for dropping OS/2 support completely. I agree, but it would still be better to get that code under AL first just in case there's someone downstream who wants to use it. +1 to just dropping it. I hate to say this since I was an OS/2 fan but it's really not worth it. There are binary releases somewhere plus it's still available under LGPL so the LO guys can take it. Pedro. I agree with Simon, that it maybe needed so get it under Al. Andy
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On 21.06.2011 16:15, Simon Phipps wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 15:13, Mathias Bauer wrote: On 21.06.2011 12:15, Simon Phipps wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 08:25, Mathias Bauer wrote: (3) dtrans/source/os2/clipb/OS2Bitmap.cxx * This code is property of Serenity Systems Intl * All rights reserverd. We should remove that (and IMHO the whole OS/2 port) from our sources. It's possible Oracle have inherited a copyright assignment/license for this code from StarDivision which never resulted in the actual source being updated, in which case we could put it under AL. I opt for dropping OS/2 support completely. I agree, but it would still be better to get that code under AL first just in case there's someone downstream who wants to use it. Good point. But then we need to look for someone who knows about this file. Regards, Mathias
Re: [ANNOUNCE] Community and Developer Wikis Now Available
On Jun 21, 2011, at 5:41 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote: Announcement - two confluence wikis are now available for the Apache OpenOffice.org project. The Apache OpenOffice.org Community Wiki is at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/ The Apache OpenOffice.org Developers Wiki is at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOODEV/ Excellent. Thanks, Dave! You're welcome, Rob! My pleasure. Anonymous viewing is allowed. In order to create content sign up for a confluence wiki account at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/signup.action If you have an apache.org email address it is easiest for us for you to use it for the wiki. The Community wiki is for everyone. The Developers wiki is for project planning and documentation. Permission to create content must be limited to the Podling PMC, OOo committers, Foundation Members, and those who have signed an ICLA (http://www.apache.org/licenses/icla.txt). To be authorized, once you have signed up for the wiki, please request access rights by replying to this email with your ID. I'd like to consider whether the Community Wiki might work better for project planning. I certainly see the requirement that documentation be created by those who have signed the iCLA, especially documentation which is included in a release. That is called out on the CWIKI FAQs [1] the touch point is whether you want to reserve the right to bundle the documentation with a release and/or check a copy into an ASF repository Although documentation certainly falls into that category, I don't see why project planning does. In fact, as we trying to coordinate the migration of the OpenOffice.org website, I think we'll need to coordinate with various groups, not all of whom are committers, and some of which are still evaluating whether they will join the project or continue their work elsewhere. So I think that for the near term at least, such project planning is best done in a space where anyone can participate. Since these plans do not get checked into SVN, or become part of the release, I don't see how this could be a problem, This was my sense and how I took Eric's comment. I did move over a page. [2] Raphael created [3] which is similar both with this link [4]. I certainly think that the home page language on both wikis can be improved. Please feel free. It looks like my day job is calling for my attention today. Regards, Dave [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Transition+Planning [3] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOODEV/Migration+from+Kenai+to+Apache [4] http://kenai.com/projects/ooo-migration/pages/Home -Rob [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/CWIKI/#Index-Butwhatifwewouldlikethecommunityatlargetohelpmaintainthespace%253F
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Jun 21, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Mathias Bauer wrote: On 21.06.2011 16:15, Simon Phipps wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 15:13, Mathias Bauer wrote: On 21.06.2011 12:15, Simon Phipps wrote: On 21 Jun 2011, at 08:25, Mathias Bauer wrote: (3) dtrans/source/os2/clipb/OS2Bitmap.cxx * This code is property of Serenity Systems Intl * All rights reserverd. We should remove that (and IMHO the whole OS/2 port) from our sources. It's possible Oracle have inherited a copyright assignment/license for this code from StarDivision which never resulted in the actual source being updated, in which case we could put it under AL. I opt for dropping OS/2 support completely. I agree, but it would still be better to get that code under AL first just in case there's someone downstream who wants to use it. Good point. But then we need to look for someone who knows about this file. The file apparently came in three years ago via CWS os2port03 (http://eis.services.openoffice.org/EIS2/cws.ShowCWS?Path=DEV300%2Fos2port03) by ydario (now on cc)---maybe he can enlighten us. -Stephan
Re: Introduction
Hi Claudio, Am 21.06.2011 19:51, schrieb Claudio Filho: 2011/6/21 Roberto Salomonroberto.salo...@gmail.com: Used to work with Louis and Claudio on OOo. Hopefully we can contribute more at Apache. 2011/6/20 luizh...@gmail.comluizh...@gmail.com: humm..maybe four Wow! The Brazilian participation is forming! Only with great friends and volunteers. =D Bests Claudio agora já estamos muitos ;-) M.
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.orgwrote: Simon Phipps wrote: Certainly the code cleanup performed by the LibreOffice developers over the last 9 months has had a huge impact, both in terms of code footprint and performance. Can you provide any supporting data? Having some canonical metrics would also help in evaluating the future code rewrite that will have to be done at Apache. I did find some rationale for the LibreOffice cleanup over on Michael Meeks' blog that may help people here devise approaches that help: http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2011-06-03-libreoffice-3-4-0.html Hope that helps, S.
Project Plan Matrix on the Wiki
Now that we have the support of a wiki for planning, I've tried to put a little structure around the plan, defining some project milestones and functional areas: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Wiki+Home Each combination of milestone and functional area links to its own page, where details of the plan can be described. I think this is the smallest set of milestones and functional areas that represents all that we need to do and all the interests I've heard expressed on the list. But I may have missed something. Feel free to augment the matrix and especially please drill down to the detailed pages and record the tasks that you think apply to each milestone. Regards, -Rob
Re: Failure to have Unicode (UTF-8) text at the SVN (was svn commit: r1137103 - in /incubator/ooo/site:... )
Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 20:40:58 -0700: No joy. Nothing I do prevents the SVN server from coughing up text files as Western Europe (ISO) encoding. I wonder if it was simply a coincidence that it appeared to work on the OIC SVN. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 19:27 To: 'ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org' Cc: 'robw...@apache.org' Subject: RE: svn commit: r1137103 - in /incubator/ooo/site: ./ trunk/ trunk/cgi-bin/ trunk/content/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/governance/ trunk/content/open I looked at the properties on folders in my working copies and I have no issue tracker integration. The TortoiseSVN settings on my computer have no Issue Tracker Hooks and there are no SVN properties being asserted automatically on folders. So I think I'm in the clear. I'm always running the latest TortoiseSVN (64-bit if that matters). - Dennis I was still bummed that I can't set *.txt=svn:mime-type=text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Need to escape the semicolon here. I /think/ that we recently patched some escaping syntax, but I can't find it right now... /me looks at Greg I was certain I'd figured out how to do it for the OIC SVN, but those TortoiseSVN and SVN clients were on a machine I don't have any more (sigh). I FOUND IT IN MY OIC SVN WORKING FOLDER on my home server. SVN appears to recognizes a mime.types file in a repository folder, and autoprops are additive to that. (Or the web server is doing it. I don't care.) I switched to doing all MIME types in the file and using autoprops in the client only for other things. Hmm. I do love that I narrate my repos: http://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/svn/oic/SpecAnalysis/mime.types (and that applies to .types too, if you check your browser encoding selection for viewing that page). I must experiment with this. I know a good place. -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com] Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 05:29 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r1137103 - in /incubator/ooo/site: ./ trunk/ trunk/cgi-bin/ trunk/content/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/governance/ trunk/content/open On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] Propchange: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/ -- bugtraq:number = true Propchange: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ -- bugtraq:number = true Hunh? What is this? Is there a particular reason for this, or can we nuke the property? I imagine we probably need to apply svn:eol-style to many of the files, too. Cheers, -g TortoiseSVN is adding them by default. We don't need them. I'll disable. Dennis should watch out as well, since he is using Tortoise too. -Rob
Re: Failure to have Unicode (UTF-8) text at the SVN (was svn commit: r1137103 - in /incubator/ooo/site:... )
Daniel Shahaf wrote on Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 21:54:35 +0300: Dennis E. Hamilton wrote on Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 20:40:58 -0700: No joy. Nothing I do prevents the SVN server from coughing up text files as Western Europe (ISO) encoding. I wonder if it was simply a coincidence that it appeared to work on the OIC SVN. - Dennis -Original Message- From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamil...@acm.org] Sent: Monday, June 20, 2011 19:27 To: 'ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org' Cc: 'robw...@apache.org' Subject: RE: svn commit: r1137103 - in /incubator/ooo/site: ./ trunk/ trunk/cgi-bin/ trunk/content/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/governance/ trunk/content/open I looked at the properties on folders in my working copies and I have no issue tracker integration. The TortoiseSVN settings on my computer have no Issue Tracker Hooks and there are no SVN properties being asserted automatically on folders. So I think I'm in the clear. I'm always running the latest TortoiseSVN (64-bit if that matters). - Dennis I was still bummed that I can't set *.txt=svn:mime-type=text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Need to escape the semicolon here. I /think/ that we recently patched some escaping syntax, but I can't find it right now... /me looks at Greg It seems that double semicolon is the escape syntax, ie *.txt = svn:mime-type=text/plain;; charset=UTF-8 see split_props() in https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/subversion/trunk/subversion/libsvn_client/add.c I was certain I'd figured out how to do it for the OIC SVN, but those TortoiseSVN and SVN clients were on a machine I don't have any more (sigh). I FOUND IT IN MY OIC SVN WORKING FOLDER on my home server. SVN appears to recognizes a mime.types file in a repository folder, and autoprops are additive to that. (Or the web server is doing it. I don't care.) I switched to doing all MIME types in the file and using autoprops in the client only for other things. Hmm. I do love that I narrate my repos: http://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/svn/oic/SpecAnalysis/mime.types (and that applies to .types too, if you check your browser encoding selection for viewing that page). I must experiment with this. I know a good place. -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:apa...@robweir.com] Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2011 05:29 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: svn commit: r1137103 - in /incubator/ooo/site: ./ trunk/ trunk/cgi-bin/ trunk/content/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/ trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/governance/ trunk/content/open On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:55 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: [ ... ] Propchange: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/ -- bugtraq:number = true Propchange: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/css/ -- bugtraq:number = true Hunh? What is this? Is there a particular reason for this, or can we nuke the property? I imagine we probably need to apply svn:eol-style to many of the files, too. Cheers, -g TortoiseSVN is adding them by default. We don't need them. I'll disable. Dennis should watch out as well, since he is using Tortoise too. -Rob
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On 21.06.2011 20:16, Simon Phipps wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 12:40 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.orgwrote: Simon Phipps wrote: Certainly the code cleanup performed by the LibreOffice developers over the last 9 months has had a huge impact, both in terms of code footprint and performance. Can you provide any supporting data? Having some canonical metrics would also help in evaluating the future code rewrite that will have to be done at Apache. I did find some rationale for the LibreOffice cleanup over on Michael Meeks' blog that may help people here devise approaches that help: http://people.gnome.org/~michael/blog/2011-06-03-libreoffice-3-4-0.html Hope that helps, Not really. It's mainly about the shrinking of the LO Windows download size (that BTW still is bigger than the download size of OOo). Anyway, you won't find data about general performance improvements as there aren't any *at the moment*. It would be very welcome if LO developers decided to share their findings or even their results with us. Until that happens, it doesn't help us a lot to discuss interpretations or impressions of what could be in LO or not. Please let's get back to OOo and do everything to get the source code into svn ASAP. Regards, Mathias
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
Hi Matthias, *, On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Mathias Bauer mathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: [...] Not really. It's mainly about the shrinking of the LO Windows download size (that BTW still is bigger than the download size of OOo). But includes *all* languages, as opposed to one single language. (it doesn't include help though, that is in an extra package, if not installed you'll get the help online in your browser). So don't start comparing apples and oranges. ciao Christian
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On 21.06.2011 22:58, Christian Lohmaier wrote: Hi Matthias, On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: On 21.06.2011 13:40, Andrea Pescetti wrote: [...] Just because you asked, caused by Simon's non-developer view of things: If have checked the latest versions (3.3 and 3.4 Beta) of LO and OOo. LO left the 3.4beta stage already, so I hope you checked with 3.4.0 at least, and not some old version. sigh I used LO 3.4 of course. /sigh Can we now go back to real work? Regards, Mathias
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On 21.06.2011 23:01, Christian Lohmaier wrote: Hi Matthias, *, On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: [...] Not really. It's mainly about the shrinking of the LO Windows download size (that BTW still is bigger than the download size of OOo). But includes *all* languages, as opposed to one single language. (it doesn't include help though, that is in an extra package, if not installed you'll get the help online in your browser). So don't start comparing apples and oranges. sigh I was not the one who started that nonsense discussion. /sigh And I still fail to see how that related to performance. Can we now go back to real work again? Regards, Mathias
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
Hi Mathias, On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Mathias Bauer mathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: On 21.06.2011 23:01, Christian Lohmaier wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: [...] Not really. It's mainly about the shrinking of the LO Windows download size (that BTW still is bigger than the download size of OOo). But includes *all* languages, as opposed to one single language. (it doesn't include help though, that is in an extra package, if not installed you'll get the help online in your browser). So don't start comparing apples and oranges. sigh I was not the one who started that nonsense discussion. /sigh But you were the one who made that nonsense statement. Live with it. And I still fail to see how that related to performance. It is not. Only thing that is related to size is the amount of data needed to read from disk and how much memory that useless data uses. But no, I don't know whether that accounts to performance at all, and as I'm not using windows myself, I don't care either. Or otherwise put: No idea whether the windows9x compatibility stuff that was removed for example was ifdef 0 ed already, or whether it ended up in the compiled result.. But just because the one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other, doesn't make that other part irrelevant. All I asked for is to not compare apples with oranges. Not more, not less. So many b*t is written and picked up by others, so don't start it here. Can we now go back to real work again? Well, consider me as observer only/ignore me, I surely won't hinder you from doing your work. But I surely won't just accept any nonsense written here without commenting. (as for performance: I myself didn't bother to compare for myself, but users report that LO feels faster for them, so they are happy, and that's what counts in the end) ciao Christian
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Christian Lippka c...@lippka.com wrote: As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of creating a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more time coding and less time community building. umm waiting for a drumroll anytime soon. Am 22.06.2011 00:20, schrieb Christian Lohmaier: Hi Mathias, On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 11:49 PM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: On 21.06.2011 23:01, Christian Lohmaier wrote: On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: [...] Not really. It's mainly about the shrinking of the LO Windows download size (that BTW still is bigger than the download size of OOo). But includes *all* languages, as opposed to one single language. (it doesn't include help though, that is in an extra package, if not installed you'll get the help online in your browser). So don't start comparing apples and oranges. sigh I was not the one who started that nonsense discussion./sigh But you were the one who made that nonsense statement. Live with it. And I still fail to see how that related to performance. It is not. Only thing that is related to size is the amount of data needed to read from disk and how much memory that useless data uses. But no, I don't know whether that accounts to performance at all, and as I'm not using windows myself, I don't care either. Or otherwise put: No idea whether the windows9x compatibility stuff that was removed for example was ifdef 0 ed already, or whether it ended up in the compiled result.. But just because the one thing doesn't have anything to do with the other, doesn't make that other part irrelevant. All I asked for is to not compare apples with oranges. Not more, not less. So many b*t is written and picked up by others, so don't start it here. Can we now go back to real work again? Well, consider me as observer only/ignore me, I surely won't hinder you from doing your work. But I surely won't just accept any nonsense written here without commenting. (as for performance: I myself didn't bother to compare for myself, but users report that LO feels faster for them, so they are happy, and that's what counts in the end) ciao Christian -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Do we need more moderators for ooo-dev?
If I can help, I'm available. Rgds, Luiz 2011/6/21 Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com I sent a note to ooo-dev, but accidentally from the wrong email address, one not listed as an alias, though it was obviously from me. Since then I've added that email address alias. That was 4 hours ago. I made a similar error last week and it took around 8 hours for it to be approved. Considering the traffic level on this list, and the large number of newbies, would it be worth having some additional moderators, so delays like this can be reduced? I'll volunteer to be a moderator myself. -Rob
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
--- On Tue, 6/21/11, Mathias Bauer mathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: ... Thanks for looking and thanks for being brave enough to post your opinions ;-). So indeed nothing the LO developers have done has observably improved the overall performance. The great thing the LO developers did is the code cleanup. It doesn't make the application faster, but handling and understanding the code is improved. Perhaps it also helps with the library rearrangement. Cleanups are boring but not difficult. I do think we should focus on having things build first though. I don't know if someone wants to spend time and effort on it later on but we can import some of the LibreOffice enhancements: if the changes involve only removing code we don't need a license for that. Anyway, let's talk about OOo now. Great idea :) Have you seen where the GNU regex code is? I suspect GNU regex is the only piece we need to replace, the rest of the packages with problematic licenses can either be made optional or removed. Pedro.
Re: Do we need more moderators for ooo-dev?
On 22.06.2011 01:03, Rob Weir wrote: I sent a note to ooo-dev, but accidentally from the wrong email address, one not listed as an alias, though it was obviously from me. Since then I've added that email address alias. That was 4 hours ago. I made a similar error last week and it took around 8 hours for it to be approved. Considering the traffic level on this list, and the large number of newbies, would it be worth having some additional moderators, so delays like this can be reduced? I'll volunteer to be a moderator myself. -Rob I'm new user of new OOo list. I send one message and waiting for comments. But I think we need to replace peaople moderators with automatic rigths algoritms.
Re: Do we need more moderators for ooo-dev?
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com wrote: I sent a note to ooo-dev, but accidentally from the wrong email address, one not listed as an alias, though it was obviously from me. Since then I've added that email address alias. That was 4 hours ago. I made a similar error last week and it took around 8 hours for it to be approved. Considering the traffic level on this list, and the large number of newbies, would it be worth having some additional moderators, so delays like this can be reduced? I'll volunteer to be a moderator myself. I have no problem adding PPMC members as moderators of the dev list, so: done. I'd like to hear more discussion before opening this wider. -Rob - Sam Ruby
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Christian Lippka c...@lippka.com wrote: As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of creating a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more time coding and less time community building. The problem is that all the community building efforts that were slowly beginning to work during Sun's governance were nullified when Oracle took over. It is you to blame that large parts just waited for a foundation to form, and sure, you can go on and whine about how bad LO and the TDF is because the moved away, and you can keep on saying that the contributions that all the volunteers did to LO in the meantime were just whitespace cleanups (which of course is not true) and belittle all the numerous contributions. Sure, continue to live in your parallel world - but don't expect to have any success with that attitude. At least there was and is progress on LibreOffice, while there was stagnation on OOo. And I fully agree - as a developer you should stop bitching around. And as Mathias wrote go back to real work. But where is that info and support form Oracle's staff regarding the infrastructure questions? No answer to size of bugzilla-database, etc. (at lest not public/on this or the infrastructure list). What about pootle - will it come back ata ll= Stuff that is so easy to obtain for people with access, but instead you complain about how evil TDF and LO is? Sorry, but you really should wake up and get over with. OOo had built a great community and started to be trusted by companies and government agencies. OOo had the foot in the door. Those who played with the idea of switching to OOo now backed off. And if open source community is lucky, the'll consider moving to LO instead of sticking with MS-Office. Now with the move to Apache you basically start over with that trust-building. What could save OOo is the name it has, but for that to work you really need to be quick in creating something that is usable for the end-user, and not just something that works for the apache process. Just removing all license conflicts won't do it. TDF/LO already did prove that it is capable of doing all the related work, apache-OOo just is getting started and already has an inferiority complex on the one hand (but considers itself as upstream on the other hand). You still have a long way to go until Apache-OOo is considere upstream. No matter whether you have to trademark or not is irrelevant when you cannot compensate for the stuff that needs to be removed. Feel free to start bitching about LO once you got the first build from apache-OOo sources. And in case you cannot differentiate yourself: LO does not spend much time community building. The people just come to LO by themselves, press was/is positive towards TDF/LO not because we bribe them to write nice articles about us. TDF and LO is a real thing. You can get in touch, you can work on it right away. And people like that. As simple as that. TDF people have tried to communicate very positively regarding OOo's move to Apache, but IBM's Rob Weir ( others) didn't stop to attack TDF/LO in his blog and in other spots. Journalists thankfully are not stupid enough to believe anything some high-profile person writes. And you and IBM wonder why you did get the counter-reaction of the TDF-Camp (not by TDF spokespersons, but by volunteers) that just could not take that crap anymore. And last but not least about the user-feeling: Yes, you should listen to your user-base. Those are the ones who promote LO/OOo after all. Oracle did a great lesson on how to not do it with the icon-styles. That's one of the first things that LO did change, and was very, very well appreciated by the users. Some even got that far and stated that this was the reason for switching. So get down of your I'm a developer horse any you'll see that listening to users, that pleasing your users is not a bad thing to do. If LO is perceived to be starting faster just because the splashscreen is shown earlier, you might not consider it worth of your coding time. But that's the wrong attitude. But enough of this thread, I'll mute it once sending this message. So no worries about being distracted from doing real work by me again, at least not in this thread. ciao Christian
Re: Publishing changed websit at apache
On 06/19/2011 03:03 AM, Ross Gardler wrote: Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 19 Jun 2011, at 05:20, Raphael Bircherr.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi at all I changed people.html short after mid-night (Middel-European summer Timezone). This is now about six houers ago, and I see no changes on the website itself. The changes are in the SVN reprostory, but not transmited to the site. From same documentation about the apache web infrastructure, i know, this can take 2 houers from the change at SVN to the change on the website itself. have I to run a script after the commit? who is the exact documentation for it? Thanks a load for help! Sounds like you are reading docs for the old system (some parts of the ASF are still transitioning). See http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html#publishing Does that mean I should run 'http://s.apache.org/cms-cli' after committing the change and buildbot has committed the html? Thanks, Carl
Re: Publishing changed websit at apache
On 06/21/2011 07:27 PM, Carl Marcum wrote: On 06/19/2011 03:03 AM, Ross Gardler wrote: Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 19 Jun 2011, at 05:20, Raphael Bircherr.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi at all I changed people.html short after mid-night (Middel-European summer Timezone). This is now about six houers ago, and I see no changes on the website itself. The changes are in the SVN reprostory, but not transmited to the site. From same documentation about the apache web infrastructure, i know, this can take 2 houers from the change at SVN to the change on the website itself. have I to run a script after the commit? who is the exact documentation for it? Thanks a load for help! Sounds like you are reading docs for the old system (some parts of the ASF are still transitioning). See http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html#publishing Does that mean I should run 'http://s.apache.org/cms-cli' after committing the change and buildbot has committed the html? Thanks, Carl Sorry, I found this in another thread. http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-site.html#command_line Thanks, Carl
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
It is astounding how even saying something *good* about LO triggers a very personal and aggressive response. I refrained to say anything remotely critical about LO in the last days, now I will stop saying anything remotely positive about LO. Lesson learned. Christian. Am 22.06.2011 01:30, schrieb Christian Lohmaier: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Christian Lippkac...@lippka.com wrote: As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of creating a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more time coding and less time community building. The problem is that all the community building efforts that were slowly beginning to work during Sun's governance were nullified when Oracle took over. It is you to blame that large parts just waited for a foundation to form, Thank you, I never realized it was me personally to thank for the creation of TDF :-) and sure, you can go on and whine about how bad LO and the TDF is because the moved away, and you can keep on saying that the contributions that all the volunteers did to LO in the meantime were just whitespace cleanups (which of course is not true) and belittle all the numerous contributions. Sure, continue to live in your parallel world - but don't expect to have any success with that attitude. At least there was and is progress on LibreOffice, while there was stagnation on OOo. And I fully agree - as a developer you should stop bitching around. And as Mathias wrote go back to real work. But where is that info and support form Oracle's staff regarding the infrastructure questions? No answer to size of bugzilla-database, etc. (at lest not public/on this or the infrastructure list). What about pootle - will it come back ata ll= Stuff that is so easy to obtain for people with access, but instead you complain about how evil TDF and LO is? Sorry, but you really should wake up and get over with. OOo had built a great community and started to be trusted by companies and government agencies. OOo had the foot in the door. Those who played with the idea of switching to OOo now backed off. And if open source community is lucky, the'll consider moving to LO instead of sticking with MS-Office. Now with the move to Apache you basically start over with that trust-building. What could save OOo is the name it has, but for that to work you really need to be quick in creating something that is usable for the end-user, and not just something that works for the apache process. Just removing all license conflicts won't do it. TDF/LO already did prove that it is capable of doing all the related work, apache-OOo just is getting started and already has an inferiority complex on the one hand (but considers itself as upstream on the other hand). You still have a long way to go until Apache-OOo is considere upstream. No matter whether you have to trademark or not is irrelevant when you cannot compensate for the stuff that needs to be removed. Feel free to start bitching about LO once you got the first build from apache-OOo sources. And in case you cannot differentiate yourself: LO does not spend much time community building. The people just come to LO by themselves, press was/is positive towards TDF/LO not because we bribe them to write nice articles about us. TDF and LO is a real thing. You can get in touch, you can work on it right away. And people like that. As simple as that. TDF people have tried to communicate very positively regarding OOo's move to Apache, but IBM's Rob Weir ( others) didn't stop to attack TDF/LO in his blog and in other spots. Journalists thankfully are not stupid enough to believe anything some high-profile person writes. And you and IBM wonder why you did get the counter-reaction of the TDF-Camp (not by TDF spokespersons, but by volunteers) that just could not take that crap anymore. And last but not least about the user-feeling: Yes, you should listen to your user-base. Those are the ones who promote LO/OOo after all. Oracle did a great lesson on how to not do it with the icon-styles. That's one of the first things that LO did change, and was very, very well appreciated by the users. Some even got that far and stated that this was the reason for switching. So get down of your I'm a developer horse any you'll see that listening to users, that pleasing your users is not a bad thing to do. If LO is perceived to be starting faster just because the splashscreen is shown earlier, you might not consider it worth of your coding time. But that's the wrong attitude. But enough of this thread, I'll mute it once sending this message. So no worries about being distracted from doing real work by me again, at least not in this thread. ciao Christian
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 6:30 PM, Christian Lohmaier cl...@openoffice.orgwrote: On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Christian Lippka c...@lippka.com wrote: As a developer I think we can learn a lot from the LO people in terms of creating a user feeling. I think a mistake from OOo was to actually spend more time coding and less time community building. The problem is that all the community building efforts that were slowly beginning to work during Sun's governance were nullified when Oracle took over. I dont agree and I can name many people that were greatly with the community from Sun, for example Rafaella Braconi and Rosana Ardilla and another member in the Marketing list that wanted to build the right efforts to create commerrcials like the one from Firefox. The key however is that community building is hard and even if people tell you that they will do community things, even thought they sound fun, things never picked up. I do remember many efforts initiatived from Oracle/Sun that fell into deft silence. Others that didnt but anyway people were making the effort. It is you to blame that large parts just waited for a foundation to form, and sure, you can go on and whine about how bad LO and the TDF is because the moved away, and you can keep on saying that the contributions that all the volunteers did to LO in the meantime were just whitespace cleanups (which of course is not true) and belittle all the numerous contributions. Sure, continue to live in your parallel world - but don't expect to have any success with that attitude. At least there was and is progress on LibreOffice, while there was stagnation on OOo. And I fully agree - as a developer you should stop bitching around. And as Mathias wrote go back to real work. But where is that info and support form Oracle's staff regarding the infrastructure questions? No answer to size of bugzilla-database, etc. (at lest not public/on this or the infrastructure list). What about pootle - will it come back ata ll= Stuff that is so easy to obtain for people with access, but instead you complain about how evil TDF and LO is? Sorry, but you really should wake up and get over with. OOo had built a great community and started to be trusted by companies and government agencies. OOo had the foot in the door. Those who played with the idea of switching to OOo now backed off. And if open source community is lucky, the'll consider moving to LO instead of sticking with MS-Office. Now with the move to Apache you basically start over with that trust-building. What could save OOo is the name it has, but for that to work you really need to be quick in creating something that is usable for the end-user, and not just something that works for the apache process. Just removing all license conflicts won't do it. TDF/LO already did prove that it is capable of doing all the related work, apache-OOo just is getting started and already has an inferiority complex on the one hand (but considers itself as upstream on the other hand). You still have a long way to go until Apache-OOo is considere upstream. No matter whether you have to trademark or not is irrelevant when you cannot compensate for the stuff that needs to be removed. Feel free to start bitching about LO once you got the first build from apache-OOo sources. And in case you cannot differentiate yourself: LO does not spend much time community building. The people just come to LO by themselves, press was/is positive towards TDF/LO not because we bribe them to write nice articles about us. TDF and LO is a real thing. You can get in touch, you can work on it right away. And people like that. As simple as that. TDF people have tried to communicate very positively regarding OOo's move to Apache, but IBM's Rob Weir ( others) didn't stop to attack TDF/LO in his blog and in other spots. Journalists thankfully are not stupid enough to believe anything some high-profile person writes. And you and IBM wonder why you did get the counter-reaction of the TDF-Camp (not by TDF spokespersons, but by volunteers) that just could not take that crap anymore. And last but not least about the user-feeling: Yes, you should listen to your user-base. Those are the ones who promote LO/OOo after all. Oracle did a great lesson on how to not do it with the icon-styles. That's one of the first things that LO did change, and was very, very well appreciated by the users. Some even got that far and stated that this was the reason for switching. So get down of your I'm a developer horse any you'll see that listening to users, that pleasing your users is not a bad thing to do. If LO is perceived to be starting faster just because the splashscreen is shown earlier, you might not consider it worth of your coding time. But that's the wrong attitude. But enough of this thread, I'll mute it once sending this message. So no worries about being distracted from doing real
Project Plan Matrix on the Wiki
Now that we have the support of a wiki for planning, I've tried to put a little structure around the plan, defining some project milestones and functional areas: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Wiki+Home Each combination of milestone and functional area links to its own page, where details of the plan can be described. I think this is the smallest set of milestones and functional areas that represents all that we need to do and all the interests I've heard expressed on the list. But I may have missed something. Feel free to augment the matrix and especially please drill down to the detailed pages and record the tasks that you think apply to each milestone. Regards, -Rob
Re: So what about QA?
Hi Rob I'm a QA project lead, http://qa.openoffice.org/ From: RA Stehmann anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de Subject: Re: So what about QA? Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:42:50 +0200 Rob Weir schrieb: We've had a lot of discussions from the dev, documentation, education, translation/localization perspectives. But I haven't really heard anything about testing. Could someone brief us on how QA was handled with OOo? Was it a community effort? Or was it done by Sun/Oracle? Was there any test automation? Or was it manual? Are there test documents available? Are there unit/pre-integration tests? Or are they mainly tests of the integrated product? And given what was done before, what worked well and should be done the same way in Apache? And what didn't work so well and should be changed? As I'm married with the Person, which is in authority for the QA in the germanophone community, I want to give my 2 cents. QA was done by SUN/Oracle and the community. Right. See also, what is done in QA in Hamburg (Oracle) can be found: http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2008/programme/thursday_1416.odp . S The development collateral QA was mostly done by employees of SUN/Oracle, but in some cases also members of the community test so called cws-builds. Testing of the milestones, betas and release canditates was done by die natural language communities. and Hamburg as well. http://quaste.services.openoffice.org/ http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QUASTe QATrack http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QATrack http://qatrack.services.openoffice.org/ We have some tools for doing and organizing the testing esp. scripts for automatic tests. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/VCLTesttool We have also done manual tests, at TCM. http://quaste.services.openoffice.org/tcm/tcm_login.cgi?tcm_config=newooo we define test cases, and check by volunteers by hands. Other than that Pavel Janik and myself have been providing builds for every milestones so that we can test OpenOffice.org for minor languages and platforms. Mechtilde as the Ansprechpartner (contact person) QA of the germanophone community decides finally what germanophone versions (Win, Solaris, deb, rpm etc.) will be released, But their was no controversy about that in the past. Enoki Shinji was the QA manager of the Japanese language project. The general decision whether a milestone is good enough to be released as beta or final version was found in the release status meeting. In this IRC-meetings was a great effort to find a consensus. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ReleaseStatus_Minutes Thanks, -- Nakata Maho http://accc.riken.jp/maho/ , JA OOO http://ja.openoffice.org/ http://blog.goo.ne.jp/nakatamaho/ ,GPG: http://accc.riken.jp/maho/maho.pgp.txt
Re: Publishing changed websit at apache
On Jun 21, 2011, at 6:51 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: - Original Message From: Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Tue, June 21, 2011 9:43:32 PM Subject: Re: Publishing changed websit at apache On Jun 21, 2011, at 4:34 PM, Carl Marcum wrote: On 06/21/2011 07:27 PM, Carl Marcum wrote: On 06/19/2011 03:03 AM, Ross Gardler wrote: Sent from my mobile device (so please excuse typos) On 19 Jun 2011, at 05:20, Raphael Bircherr.birc...@gmx.ch wrote: Hi at all I changed people.html short after mid-night (Middel-European summer Timezone). This is now about six houers ago, and I see no changes on the website itself. The changes are in the SVN reprostory, but not transmited to the site. From same documentation about the apache web infrastructure, i know, this can take 2 houers from the change at SVN to the change on the website itself. have I to run a script after the commit? who is the exact documentation for it? Thanks a load for help! Sounds like you are reading docs for the old system (some parts of the ASF are still transitioning). See http://www.apache.org/dev/cmsref.html#publishing Does that mean I should run 'http://s.apache.org/cms-cli' after committing the change and buildbot has committed the html? Thanks, Carl Sorry, I found this in another thread. http://www.apache.org/dev/infra-site.html#command_line That's the correct last step in changing the site. I followed the second choice and used my people.a.o account. I've had it for a few years. ssh -t user@people.apache.org publish.pl www user ^^^ That is the project name in the CMS. If you use www you will be attempting to publish the www.apache.org site. You need to use openofficeorg to publish to incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg. I actually did this: wave@minotaur:~$ ssh -t w...@people.apache.org publish.pl openofficeorg wave I had cut and pasted from the instructions. Oops. Thanks for the corrections. Regards, Dave The script works for every site based in the CMS, so specifying the proper project name is rather important. FWIW every committer has permission to commit to the www.apache.org site, but only infrastructure people and Apache members may publish (ie use the script). IOW you do not need to ask anyone's permission to commit to www. However publishing, via the script or via the CMS webgui, is a separate matter.
Licensing odma.h (was RE: Some more strange files in the OOo code - the Ghost of ODMA Past)
The ODMA Support showed up in the Novell editions of OpenOffice.org. I don't think the copyright notice in odma.h should be a problem. What is missing is any additional information about the license. Also not sure why you need it if there is no code that uses it in the base distribution. If you want, I am sure I can make an updated version of the file, clear it with Betsy Fanning at AIIM (although that BSD-style license is meant to apply to all current code), and post an updated odma.h on the web site. Is that useful or would I be wasting my time? - Dennis -Original Message- From: Kai Sommerfeld [mailto:kai.sommerf...@gmx.de] Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2011 02:50 To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code - the Ghost of ODMA Past Hi, as far as I can tell LibreOffice does include ODMA support (the code from ucb module plus patches here and there, inluding special file dialogs and the like), vanilla OpenOffice.org as it can be downloaded from download.openoffice.org definitely never did. The former speaks for not completely removing ODMA files, just to ban odma.h from the ucb source module. I agree that improving WebDAV and introducing CMIS support should have higher priority than fixing ODMA. - Kai. On 21.06.11 11:19, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: Oh dear, my past comes along to haunt me. If you go to the home page, http://odma.info, you'll see that the other Downloads link is to ODMA License 1.0 (modeled on the BSD License). If you look in the lower right hand corner of the license page, you'll know why I should be hiding behind the sofa. [ ... ]
Re: So what about QA?
Hi Rob I'm a QA project lead, http://qa.openoffice.org/ From: RA Stehmann anw...@rechtsanwalt-stehmann.de Subject: Re: So what about QA? Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:42:50 +0200 Rob Weir schrieb: We've had a lot of discussions from the dev, documentation, education, translation/localization perspectives. But I haven't really heard anything about testing. Could someone brief us on how QA was handled with OOo? Was it a community effort? Or was it done by Sun/Oracle? Was there any test automation? Or was it manual? Are there test documents available? Are there unit/pre-integration tests? Or are they mainly tests of the integrated product? And given what was done before, what worked well and should be done the same way in Apache? And what didn't work so well and should be changed? As I'm married with the Person, which is in authority for the QA in the germanophone community, I want to give my 2 cents. QA was done by SUN/Oracle and the community. Right. See also, what is done in QA in Hamburg (Oracle) can be found: http://marketing.openoffice.org/ooocon2008/programme/thursday_1416.odp . S The development collateral QA was mostly done by employees of SUN/Oracle, but in some cases also members of the community test so called cws-builds. Testing of the milestones, betas and release canditates was done by die natural language communities. and Hamburg as well. http://quaste.services.openoffice.org/ http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QUASTe QATrack http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/QATrack http://qatrack.services.openoffice.org/ We have some tools for doing and organizing the testing esp. scripts for automatic tests. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/VCLTesttool We have also done manual tests, at TCM. http://quaste.services.openoffice.org/tcm/tcm_login.cgi?tcm_config=newooo we define test cases, and check by volunteers by hands. Other than that Pavel Janik and myself have been providing builds for every milestones so that we can test OpenOffice.org for minor languages and platforms. Mechtilde as the Ansprechpartner (contact person) QA of the germanophone community decides finally what germanophone versions (Win, Solaris, deb, rpm etc.) will be released, But their was no controversy about that in the past. Enoki Shinji was the QA manager of the Japanese language project. The general decision whether a milestone is good enough to be released as beta or final version was found in the release status meeting. In this IRC-meetings was a great effort to find a consensus. http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/ReleaseStatus_Minutes Thanks, -- Nakata Maho http://accc.riken.jp/maho/ , JA OOO http://ja.openoffice.org/ http://blog.goo.ne.jp/nakatamaho/ ,GPG: http://accc.riken.jp/maho/maho.pgp.txt
