date:20121101

On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:
 I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
 believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
 project).

 never mind.

 Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
 (that is
 how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a language
 file
 and get it translated as part of the language packs ?
 
 Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project and
 software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.
 
 However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit. When
 we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers will
 ask why not their extensions.

It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy create
a special section in our repo where we can host them.

But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...

 
 And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.
 
 But maybe others here have a great idea?

we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-). But I
can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.

Juergen

 
 Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and help
 AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?

 Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.
 
 Yeah, maybe. ;-)
 
 Marcus
 
 
 
 On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de  wrote:

 Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

   While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a slight
 problem.

 Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.

 Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
 http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/how
 does that get integrated into the
 translation process ?


 Simply, not at all.


   As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our build
 --all
 --with-lang.


 Right.


   If I am right that they are not part of the general translation,
 then is
 that per design so or should it be different ?


 Yes, this is by design.

 Extensions are offered to extent your AOO install at any point of time.
 These are developed by people that do not have to belong to our project
 (when we put aside some exceptions). They can act independently. And
 therefore they are allowed to (or have to ;-) ) do all on their own;
 incl.
 translation.

 That applies for all extensions and templates available on:

 -
 http://extensions.services.**openoffice.orghttp://extensions.services.openoffice.org

 -
 http://templates.services.**openoffice.orghttp://templates.services.openoffice.org



   I might be following a wrong track here, but please forgive me for
 trying
 to make the l10n process as complete as I can.


 Don't panic. That's a great goal and everybody is thankful to you for
 doing this task.

 Marcus

Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks

2012-11-01 Thread Ji Yan

Rob,

I've submitted QA introduction page, pls help commit it. Thanks

2012/11/1 Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com

On 10/31/2012 11:36 AM, jan iversen wrote:

+1 to your 3 layer strategy.

I have made a proposal for the wiki page, however I am not competent to
fill in the tasks.
http://wiki.openoffice.org/w/**index.php?title=Communication/**
new_contributorsaction=submithttp://wiki.openoffice.org/w/index.php?title=Communication/new_contributorsaction=submit

I have NOT linked it in anywhere, but a natural link would in
participation on the main page.

Jan.

OK, I will bail out from this for now, and see what else develops here.
You know what they say about too many cooks... :/

Looking forward to interesting results from both Rob and Jan.

I will certainly help as I see a need.

On 31 October 2012 18:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 1:46 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com
wrote:

Hi.

I think your md pages are SUPERwhat I suggested was an additional

wiki

page (actually someone else called it postoffice) where we put small

tasks

that need to be translated / written etc.

So I see your pages go hand in hand with Wiki pages, just too different
levels of interaction with the community.

Right. So maybe when we do a wider call for volunteers we can
offer three tracks:

1) Sign up for ooo-dev and drink from the firehose (our only current
option)

2) A short intro on the wiki, one that doesn't exist yet, but maybe
someone can write one.

3) A longer self-paced intro on the website (what I'm working on)

They are volunteers, so we can't force them to do anything. But we
can offer them a few choices. I'm happy to provide one of those
choices. Who wants to provide another?

-Rob

jan

On 31 October 2012 16:59, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 11:51 AM, Kay Schenk kay.sch...@gmail.com

wrote:

On 10/28/2012 04:30 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Andrea Pescetti

pesce...@apache.org

wrote:

On 23/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:

New Volunteer Orientation root page:
http://incubator.apache.org/**openofficeorg/orientation/http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/orientation/

This is an excellent resource. But we received a few requests from
prospective volunteers this weekend and I'm believing it would be
overwhelming to point them there. I still believe these documents

are

excellent, but probably they are assuming our volunteer is above

average,

or
at least willing to engage deeply with the project. They would be

perfect

for me, for you, or for a newcomer like Jan who has the skills and

the

mindset to understand in detail how things work.

And how do we know in advance which volunteers are like Jan and which

are

not?

I think we should find some way to point them to the info and say

that

they are welcome to jump in and ignore this all, or skim it in
parallel with direct participation, or read through this stuff first.
It is entirely up to them.

But generally, the more one needs to interact with other project
participants and other systems and even other parts of Apache, the
more this information becomes useful. Although not stated, one

could

almost say that Level 4 would be becoming a Committer. So you are
correct that this is a track for a more determined volunteer,

But we will also have (and we do have: most volunteers I see on the
mailing
lists in Italian fall in this category) volunteers who don't care

that

much
about OpenOffice as a project: they use the product and just want to

give

something back. They want to scratch an itch, or just to do

something,

but
they are very task-oriented: they want something to do rather than
something
to read. For example, we may have translation volunteers who would

perfectly satisfied if we e-mail them a PO file and tell them to

grab

POEdit
and send the file back; and then they would consider a deeper

engagement,

but not earlier.

Translation volunteers are different in many ways, but even there I
think we need some solid orientation material. They won't go far
before wondering why they cannot write to Pootle and the website, but
others can. That leads us into discussion of roles at Apache, etc.
And we really need to expose them to the Apache License at the
earliest opportunity. We do no one any favors if we're passing

around

PO files via private mail, and receiving translations without any
public record of contribution.

In any case, this is an issue we've had for a while. Becoming a
Committer is a higher hurdle than is appropriate for most translation
volunteers, due to iCLA, etc. The orientation guides did not create
this problem, they merely remind us of it.

And indeed they are not totally wrong: knowing how the Apache Board

works

is
not needed to be able to translate a press release, or a few

OpenOffice

Re: [DISCUSS] IDE, comment translation, debugging, documentation and other development issues

2012-11-01 Thread Joost Andrae


Hi Andrea,



OK, but if a developer bumps into German comments while investigating
code, it doesn't harm to check in a translation to English. Most of our
more experienced developers know German and English, so it won't be
problematic to find someone who can ensure that the translation is correct.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that a systematic translation of German
comments makes sense, since there are modules that are or will soon be
deprecated; it probably makes more sense to translate when needed.



you got it: This way (translate when needed) is preferable for all 
code that is not deprecated. Fortunately there are a lot of developers 
here who can understand those comments and who could help to translate 
them into English but translating shouldn't be the main focus eg. just 
for counting code changes like within our main fork (hint hint...).


Kind regards, Joost

Re: [RELEASE] Releasing new languages for 3.4.1

2012-11-01 Thread Andrea Pescetti


On 30/10/2012 Rob Weir wrote:

However, if we want to have a beta release of these lang packs, then
this is not hard either:
1) Checked the PO files into the 3.4.x branch
2) Verify that they have correct license headers (assuming PO files
allow a license header)
3) Generate a source package as a diff file of the branch against the
3.4.1 revision
4) Generate the binary packages, perhaps just lang packs, perhaps full installs
5) Sign the source package and binary packages
6) 72 hour release vote
7) Announce via blog, etc.


This seems good since it would allow to avoid distributing a 3.4.2 for 
the only sake of adding new languages: users would be disappointed to 
see a new 3.4.2 identical to 3.4.1 (since all changes and bugfixes are 
being applied to trunk only). The only problem I see is that we would 
then have the distributed 3.4.1 binaries in English compiled from the 
August sources, and the distributed 3.4.1 binaries in Danish compiled 
from the November sources. But, so long as the AOO34 branch is updated 
with new language files only, this approach can work.


About 1 and 2: PO files do allow for a license header, but are imported 
(with conversion) in the sources rather than simply copied, so steps 1 
and 2 would be replaced by importing the PO files and clarify their 
provenance/license.



Of course, this all has overhead, especially for you, the release
manager.  So we don't want to repeat this too frequently.


This has overhead on the release managers, package providers, website 
maintainers, mirror operators and (to a lesser extent) on the whole 
community. But if we can enable new languages to appear within a few 
weeks, perhaps in batches of 3-5, this is positive news for the 
community engagement. Localization volunteers are the ones we are most 
prepared to handle at the moment, and an important resource for the project.


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community

On 10/30/12 12:14 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
 On Oct 30, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de wrote:
 
 When we have something to announce you can expect to read it in
 official places. It won't be something we'll be hiding in strange
 corners of the web.

 That means if an employee identifies proposals on XING does not correspond 
 to the opinion of the IBM? Not officially?
 I think that's a strange point of view.

 I think sentences like:

 heute mal eine ganz andere Anfrage, IBM als eine der Firmen, die sich im 
 Apache OpenOffice Projekt engagiert, macht sich auch über ein Service  
 Support Konzept im Rahmen von Apache OpenOffice Gedanken.
 [...]
 Ich würde gerne mehr darüber erfahren, wer im OpenOffice Umfeld aktiv ist 
 und an einer Partnerbeziehung auf dieser Ebene mit IBM interessiert ist.

 are absolutely clear.
 
 This sounds like research to me.

exactly, I simply wanted to start a discussion on a further channel and
I haven't offered anything concrete. It was an attempt of brainstorming
without the success that I has looked for :-(

The idea of such a partner network of course is that people or even
companies can make use of it and can recommend each other on demand. Or
ISV can work together on bigger deals if necessary.

As Rob pointed already out if IBM receive a request for support for AOO
but IBM can't help for whatever reason it would be good to have a
partner network worldwide where we simply could recommend an ISV/partner.

It's funny in the past people complained about the dominance of
Sun/Oracle in the project, then people tried to put IBM in this
position. But IBM don't want a special role in the project, we want be
part of the overall community and want work together with others.

It seems that you expect IBM should taking a leading role here. But I
think the best way to show confidence in the project is a healthy,
diverse and working community without a leading company and that exactly
is what Apache guarantees.

Juergen

 

 But no problem, I will contact IBM directly. Thanks for your clarification.


 
 If everything is absolutely clear to you then I don't know what you
 want clarifications on.   But if you do have a question then just
 ask it, here or via private email if that is your preference. But I
 speak honestly when I say that I cannot figure out what your theory is
 here and what you think is occurring.
 
 Rob
 
 
 Greetings,
 Jörg

Re: [UX] - Design Exploration - Dockable Task Pane (Sidebar) - Tab User Interface Design

2012-11-01 Thread Lei Wang

I like beveled tab option.

One question, what kinds of content should be put into the sidebar? A
navigator window or a style list window should be put into sidebar as a tab
panel.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hello All,

 I've been exploring design alternatives for adding navigation tabs to the
 docked task pane.

 See:

 http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Docked_Task_Pane_Container_-_Tab_User_Interface_Design

 Capture any thoughts or feedback in the discussion section of the wiki
 page.

 Thanks,
 Kevin

Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community

2012-11-01 Thread Alexandro Colorado

On 11/1/12, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 10/30/12 12:14 PM, Rob Weir wrote:
 On Oct 30, 2012, at 4:19 AM, Jörg Schmidt joe...@j-m-schmidt.de
 wrote:

 When we have something to announce you can expect to read it in
 official places. It won't be something we'll be hiding in strange
 corners of the web.

 That means if an employee identifies proposals on XING does not
 correspond to the opinion of the IBM? Not officially?
 I think that's a strange point of view.

 I think sentences like:

 heute mal eine ganz andere Anfrage, IBM als eine der Firmen, die sich im
 Apache OpenOffice Projekt engagiert, macht sich auch über ein Service 
 Support Konzept im Rahmen von Apache OpenOffice Gedanken.
 [...]
 Ich würde gerne mehr darüber erfahren, wer im OpenOffice Umfeld aktiv ist
 und an einer Partnerbeziehung auf dieser Ebene mit IBM interessiert
 ist.

 are absolutely clear.

 This sounds like research to me.

 exactly, I simply wanted to start a discussion on a further channel and
 I haven't offered anything concrete. It was an attempt of brainstorming
 without the success that I has looked for :-(

 The idea of such a partner network of course is that people or even
 companies can make use of it and can recommend each other on demand. Or
 ISV can work together on bigger deals if necessary.

 As Rob pointed already out if IBM receive a request for support for AOO
 but IBM can't help for whatever reason it would be good to have a
 partner network worldwide where we simply could recommend an ISV/partner.

 It's funny in the past people complained about the dominance of
 Sun/Oracle in the project, then people tried to put IBM in this
 position. But IBM don't want a special role in the project, we want be
 part of the overall community and want work together with others.

The issue with Sun/Oracle wasn't business related but community
related. At a point Sun usually wasn't really in a meaningful picture
in many of the peripheral offices. The partner network was always
something that was embraced during the BizDev project, but the
relevance of this effort wasn't enough to capture possible
consultants. Also beside the BizDev list, there was a need for more
corporate push, like partner relations upstream and a real channel to
discuss business-related needs of the software.

We meet a couple of times with Simon Phipps to have Sun more engaged
on OOo affairs, but bureaucracy and the internal struggles at Sun
didn't make the idea go that fair in.


 It seems that you expect IBM should taking a leading role here. But I
 think the best way to show confidence in the project is a healthy,
 diverse and working community without a leading company and that exactly
 is what Apache guarantees.

 Juergen



 But no problem, I will contact IBM directly. Thanks for your
 clarification.



 If everything is absolutely clear to you then I don't know what you
 want clarifications on.   But if you do have a question then just
 ask it, here or via private email if that is your preference. But I
 speak honestly when I say that I cannot figure out what your theory is
 here and what you think is occurring.

 Rob


 Greetings,
 Jörg





-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: [RELEASE] Releasing new languages for 3.4.1

On 11/1/12 10:09 AM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
 On 31/10/2012 jan iversen wrote:
 Ok, I thought team meant language teams. But I have searched the
 Wiki and
 cannot find any documentation on the required QA procedure relating to
 national languages.
 Can it be, that it was never really defined and written down ?
 
 It was. We used to have two tools, TCM and QATrack.
 
 The former was a test management platform, which (among many other
 things) contained a Release Sanity test suite, about 30 tests that
 should be passed to release OpenOffice in a certain language: sorting
 text with native language characters and so on.
 
 The latter was a web panel where responsible QA persons for each
 language could state that they were running QA on, say, the German Mac
 OS X version and report whether the build was approved or rejected (and
 much more, but this is the basic idea).
 
 Both tools are unused now. TCM is not accessible but if Oracle manages
 to provide the testcases (not the platform) we will be able to reuse
 them. QATrack was initially written by me and then significantly
 extended by Per Eriksson and we should have it somewhere, but can be
 easily redone on a proper framework: I wouldn't write a tool explicitly
 for that purpose any longer these days.
 

I am not sure but maybe we can use TestLink more in the future. I have
to confess that I never used QATrack in the past and don't know what it
provided exactly and how it was used.

http://aootesting.adfinis-sygroup.org/login.php

Juergen

Re: CMS diff: Introduction to QA

Committed.  Thanks for the patch.   I'll review more later today.

-Rob

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:34 AM, Yan Ji anonym...@apache.org wrote:
 Clone URL (Committers only):
 https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://openofficeorg.apache.org/openofficeorg%2Forientation%2Fintro-qa.mdtext

 Yan Ji

 Index: trunk/content/openofficeorg/orientation/intro-qa.mdtext
 ===
 --- trunk/content/openofficeorg/orientation/intro-qa.mdtext (revision 
 1404425)
 +++ trunk/content/openofficeorg/orientation/intro-qa.mdtext (working copy)
 @@ -1,26 +1,89 @@
 -Title: Introduction to QA
 -Notice:Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under one
 -   or more contributor license agreements.  See the NOTICE file
 -   distributed with this work for additional information
 -   regarding copyright ownership.  The ASF licenses this file
 -   to you under the Apache License, Version 2.0 (the
 -   License); you may not use this file except in compliance
 -   with the License.  You may obtain a copy of the License at
 -   .
 - http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
 -   .
 -   Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in writing,
 -   software distributed under the License is distributed on an
 -   AS IS BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY
 -   KIND, either express or implied.  See the License for the
 -   specific language governing permissions and limitations
 -   under the License.
 -
 -1. Please send an email to 
 [ooo...@incubator.apache.org](mailto:ooo...@incubator.apache.org?subject=Starting
  Introduction to QA) to let us know you are working on this module.
 -
 -1. Understanding the defect workflow
 -
 -
 -1. Congratulations!  You have completed this Level.  Please send a note to 
 [ooo...@incubator.apache.org](mailto:ooo...@incubator.apache.org?subject=Completed
  Introduction to QA) so
 -we all know you have completed this level.   This is also a good opportunity 
 to send along any feedback or questions you might have on this Orientation 
 Module.
 -
 +Title: Introduction to QA
 +Notice:Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under one
 +   or more contributor license agreements.  See the NOTICE file
 +   distributed with this work for additional information
 +   regarding copyright ownership.  The ASF licenses this file
 +   to you under the Apache License, Version 2.0 (the
 +   License); you may not use this file except in compliance
 +   with the License.  You may obtain a copy of the License at
 +   .
 + http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0
 +   .
 +   Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in writing,
 +   software distributed under the License is distributed on an
 +   AS IS BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY
 +   KIND, either express or implied.  See the License for the
 +   specific language governing permissions and limitations
 +   under the License.
 +
 +LEVEL 1: INTRODUCTION TO QAbr
 +In this orientation module you will know how a QA works in community.br
 +To get involved into QA work, firstly you need subscribe mail list:
 +
 +***QA Mailing List***
 +
 +The list is for bug reports, quality assurance for release, beta tests, 
 manual test, automated tests, etc.
 +
 +Subscribe: 
 [ooo-qa-subscr...@incubator.apache.org](mailto:ooo-qa-subscr...@incubator.apache.org)br
 +Post (after subscription): 
 [ooo...@incubator.apache.org](mailto:ooo...@incubator.apache.org)br
 +Unsubscribe: 
 [ooo-qa-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org](ooo-qa-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org)
 +
 +Archives:
 +
 +  - [Markmail](http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.ooo-qa)
 +  - [Apache](http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-qa/)
 +
 +Post mail using special tag to identify QA activities:
 +
 + * [QA REPORT] - topic related with  status report
 + * [QA AUTOMATION] - topic related with automation tools, scripts and scope
 + * [QA BUG] - topic related with bug discussion
 + * [QA CRITICAL] - important information related with QE
 + * [QA CALLFORREVIEW] - topic with some review
 + * [QA CALLFORVOLUNTEER] - if you want to call for volunteer for testing 
 some features
 + * [QA] default if others don't fit.
 +
 +After you subscribe QA mail list then you can post your topic in the mail 
 group.
 +
 +***Bug Handling***:
 +
 +Apache Bugzilla:
 +
 + * [http://issues.apache.org/ooo](http://issues.apache.org/ooo)
 +
 +Bugzilla related documents:
 +
 + * Bug lifecycle introduction [Issue 
 Lifecycle](http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Issue_lifecycle)br
 + * A guide for opening bug: [How to file 
 bug](http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/HowToFileIssue)
 +
 +To open a new bug, you need register your bugzilla

Re: extensions and translations.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:
 I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
 believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
 project).

 never mind.

 Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
 (that is
 how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a language
 file
 and get it translated as part of the language packs ?

 Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project and
 software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.

 However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit. When
 we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers will
 ask why not their extensions.

 It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
 ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy create
 a special section in our repo where we can host them.

 But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
 stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...



+1

I think the important thing is this:  We don't just want code.  We
want communities.  So if an extension author thinks that their
extension is generally useful and he/she wants to join the AOO
community and work on the extension here, and allow others to work on
it as well, then this is good.  We can have a set of standard
extensions.


 And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.

 But maybe others here have a great idea?

 we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-). But I
 can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.

 Juergen


 Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and help
 AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?

 Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.

 Yeah, maybe. ;-)

 Marcus



 On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de  wrote:

 Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

   While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a slight
 problem.

 Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.

 Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
 http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/how
 does that get integrated into the
 translation process ?


 Simply, not at all.


   As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our build
 --all
 --with-lang.


 Right.


   If I am right that they are not part of the general translation,
 then is
 that per design so or should it be different ?


 Yes, this is by design.

 Extensions are offered to extent your AOO install at any point of time.
 These are developed by people that do not have to belong to our project
 (when we put aside some exceptions). They can act independently. And
 therefore they are allowed to (or have to ;-) ) do all on their own;
 incl.
 translation.

 That applies for all extensions and templates available on:

 -
 http://extensions.services.**openoffice.orghttp://extensions.services.openoffice.org

 -
 http://templates.services.**openoffice.orghttp://templates.services.openoffice.org



   I might be following a wrong track here, but please forgive me for
 trying
 to make the l10n process as complete as I can.


 Don't panic. That's a great goal and everybody is thankful to you for
 doing this task.

 Marcus

who should I contact for giving an idea.

2012-11-01 Thread E.S.Corral, S.L.


Hi,

I'm an advanced user of openoffice and would like to give an idea for 
improving the speed of linked cells in related spreads.


Is there any e-mail for this purpose?

Many thanks.


Greetings.

Javier Corral,
Barcelona - Spain.

Re: Volunteers, Contributors, Committers, PMC members -- is there any way to consolidate these lists?

2012-11-01 Thread Albino B Neto

Hi.

On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:
 Any objections to this general idea?  Any improvements?

 And if we did want a place to have a big table of volunteers, where on
 the wiki should we put it (CWiki or MWiki)?

Yes, we must show who really helps too.

The page in cwiki is but ideal.

-- 
Albino

Re: who should I contact for giving an idea.

Hi Javier,

this is of course the correct place here. But it is a mailing list and
you should subscribe first otherwise you won't receive replies to your
emails directly. Notice that I have put you explicitly on cc.

Feel free to share your idea with us.

Regards
Juergen

On 11/1/12 1:17 PM, E.S.Corral, S.L. wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I'm an advanced user of openoffice and would like to give an idea for
 improving the speed of linked cells in related spreads.
 
 Is there any e-mail for this purpose?
 
 Many thanks.
 
 
 Greetings.
 
 Javier Corral,
 Barcelona - Spain.

Re: complaint

2012-11-01 Thread Oliver-Rainer Wittmann


Hi,

On 01.11.2012 13:26, mango...@talktalk.net wrote:

Hi
Why does my Open Office keep crashing?


Please have a look at the first item in the Known Issues area of our AOO 3.4.1 
release notes [1].
May be you are hit by the same and the proposed actions on the forum solves the 
problem.


[1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+3.4.1+Release+Notes


Best regards, Oliver.


Ken

Re: [UX] - Design Exploration - Dockable Task Pane (Sidebar) - Tab User Interface Design

2012-11-01 Thread Shenfeng Liu

2012/11/1 Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com

On 11/1/12 11:09 AM, Lei Wang wrote:
I like beveled tab option.

me too and it was already planned in the past to extend the existing
solution.

+1 to Beveled tab option.

One question, what kinds of content should be put into the sidebar? A
navigator window or a style list window should be put into sidebar as a
tab
panel.

I think that are good examples and Symphony has used it in a good way
too. But I am also looking forward to make more more use of it to via
extensions and integrate in other systems. It can be a file browser on a
CMS where you can checkin/checkout files, can share files, etc.. It can
be a property SideBar as we know it from Symphony.

property sidebar is a good candidate to implement in phase I. No need to
migrated every thing from Symphony sidebar, but start from some frequent
used buttons.
Another candidate we can consider maybe clipart/gallery.
And agree that we should provide interface for extension development.

I can see it is a big feature that requires a lot of UX/development/testing
effort. So I suggest to create a wiki under 4.0 planning
wikihttps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.0+Release+Planningto
consolidate and trace all related tasks and action items. We may also
need a branch to start ASAP.

- Shenfeng Liu (Simon)

A SideBar in general is smooth and nice way to integrate in the office
UI and provide fast access to new interesting features. And last but not
least to make use of wide screen displays ;-)

Juergen

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:59 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com
wrote:

Hello All,

I've been exploring design alternatives for adding navigation tabs to
the
docked task pane.

See:

http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Docked_Task_Pane_Container_-_Tab_User_Interface_Design

Capture any thoughts or feedback in the discussion section of the wiki
page.

Thanks,
Kevin

Re: complaint

Ken is not subscribed to the list and hasn't received your answer. I
have cc'ed him now

Juergen

On 11/1/12 1:37 PM, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On 01.11.2012 13:26, mango...@talktalk.net wrote:
 Hi
 Why does my Open Office keep crashing?
 
 Please have a look at the first item in the Known Issues area of our AOO
 3.4.1 release notes [1].
 May be you are hit by the same and the proposed actions on the forum
 solves the problem.
 
 [1]
 https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+3.4.1+Release+Notes
 
 
 
 Best regards, Oliver.
 
 Ken

Re: [ApacheCon] BoF session on AOO community

2012-11-01 Thread Roberto Galoppini

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:29 PM, Louis Suárez-Potts lui...@gmail.comwrote:

 Roberto,

 On 12-10-31, at 15:14 , Roberto Galoppini rgalopp...@geek.net wrote:

  On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org
 wrote:
  On 29/10/2012 Roberto Galoppini wrote:
 
  A more diverse and sustainable project. For example, until few years
  ago having OOo integrated or at least able to interoperate with SAP
  was a distinct dream, is there any chance we can have the right SAP
  people to attend the AOO BoF, and discuss about this?
 
 
  This would be quite interesting too. I don't have any contacts, but it
 would
  be good to have SAP people there and, in general, devote a part of the
  session to exploring how OpenOffice can interoperate with other
 solutions
  (or what the OpenOffice community can do to allow others to be able to
  integrate with OpenOffice more easily), so not only the community in a
  strict sense but the ecosystem around it too.
 
  I have sent an email to my open source contacts at SAP, maybe other
  Apache members might have contacts too.
 

 I have my old friend from Sun, Erwin T., as well as others through him,
 and then some outside of open source. We've had discussions with SAP
 before—but that was prior-moulting, when we were still Oracles.



I've dropped a couple of emails, but it's All Saints in Germany and it
would be unlikely to hear back before Monday.

 Having been in the OOo migrations' business for some years, I firmly
  believe we should try hard to reduce the SI integration gap.

 Absolutely. Totally agree. Huzza. So let's. Can we perhaps formalize this
 in a wiki of Things That Are Important or At Least Worth It?


We might do that, but a survey could probably do a better job in this
respect, though. While actually for things like SAP we've heard that so
many times from medium-large companies that likely we do not need to ask.

Roberto



 Louis
 
  Roberto
 
  Regards,
   Andrea.


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Re: extensions and translations.

2012-11-01 Thread Roberto Galoppini

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidt jogischm...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
  Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:
  I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
  believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
  project).
 
  never mind.
 
  Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
  (that is
  how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a language
  file
  and get it translated as part of the language packs ?
 
  Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project and
  software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.
 
  However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit. When
  we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers will
  ask why not their extensions.
 
  It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
  ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy create
  a special section in our repo where we can host them.
 
  But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
  stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...
 


 +1

 I think the important thing is this:  We don't just want code.  We
 want communities.  So if an extension author thinks that their
 extension is generally useful and he/she wants to join the AOO
 community and work on the extension here, and allow others to work on
 it as well, then this is good.  We can have a set of standard
 extensions.


Agree 100%.

Roberto



 
  And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.
 
  But maybe others here have a great idea?
 
  we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-). But I
  can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.
 
  Juergen
 
 
  Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and
 help
  AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?
 
  Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.
 
  Yeah, maybe. ;-)
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
  On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de  wrote:
 
  Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:
 
While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a slight
  problem.
 
  Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.
 
  Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
  http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/
 http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/how
  does that get integrated into the
  translation process ?
 
 
  Simply, not at all.
 
 
As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our build
  --all
  --with-lang.
 
 
  Right.
 
 
If I am right that they are not part of the general translation,
  then is
  that per design so or should it be different ?
 
 
  Yes, this is by design.
 
  Extensions are offered to extent your AOO install at any point of
 time.
  These are developed by people that do not have to belong to our
 project
  (when we put aside some exceptions). They can act independently. And
  therefore they are allowed to (or have to ;-) ) do all on their own;
  incl.
  translation.
 
  That applies for all extensions and templates available on:
 
  -
  http://extensions.services.**openoffice.org
 http://extensions.services.openoffice.org
 
  -
  http://templates.services.**openoffice.org
 http://templates.services.openoffice.org
 
 
 
I might be following a wrong track here, but please forgive me for
  trying
  to make the l10n process as complete as I can.
 
 
  Don't panic. That's a great goal and everybody is thankful to you for
  doing this task.
 
  Marcus
 


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Re: [UX] - Design Exploration - Dockable Task Pane (Sidebar) - Tab User Interface Design

2012/11/1 Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.com

 Hello All,

 I've been exploring design alternatives for adding navigation tabs to the
 docked task pane.

 See:

 http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Docked_Task_Pane_Container_-_Tab_User_Interface_Design

 Capture any thoughts or feedback in the discussion section of the wiki
 page.

 Thanks,
 Kevin


Good!

I just added some thoughts on the talk page.

Regards
Ricardo

FW: [Full-disclosure] [SECURITY] [DSA 2570-1] openoffice.org security update

2012-11-01 Thread Dennis E. Hamilton

Because of the substitution of LibreOffice as openoffice.org installs, it is 
very confusing which of these defects may apply to Apache OpenOffice. 

In any case, the Debian CVE is now public.

-Original Message-
From: full-disclosure-boun...@lists.grok.org.uk 
[mailto:full-disclosure-boun...@lists.grok.org.uk] On Behalf Of Yves-Alexis 
Perez
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2012 13:37
To: debian-security-annou...@lists.debian.org
Subject: [Full-disclosure] [SECURITY] [DSA 2570-1] openoffice.org security 
update

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


- -
Debian Security Advisory DSA-2570-1   secur...@debian.org
http://www.debian.org/security/ Yves-Alexis Perez
October 31, 2012   http://www.debian.org/security/faq
- -

Package: openoffice.org
Vulnerability  : remote
Problem type   : remote
Debian-specific: no
CVE ID : CVE-2012-4233
Debian Bug : 

High-Tech Bridge SA Security Research Lab discovered multiple null-pointer
dereferences based vulnerabilities in OpenOffice which could cause
application crash or even arbitrary code execution using specially crafted
files. Affected file types are LWP (Lotus Word Pro), ODG, PPT (MS Powerpoint
2003) and XLS (MS Excel 2003).

For the stable distribution (squeeze), this problem has been fixed in
version 1:3.2.1-11+squeeze8.

openoffice.org package has been replaced by libreoffice in testing (wheezy)
and unstable (sid) distributions.

For the testing distribution (wheezy), this problem has been fixed in
version 1:3.5.4+dfsg-3.

For the unstable distribution (sid), this problem has been fixed in
version 1:3.5.4+dfsg-3.

We recommend that you upgrade your openoffice.org packages.

Further information about Debian Security Advisories, how to apply
these updates to your system and frequently asked questions can be
found at: http://www.debian.org/security/

Mailing list: debian-security-annou...@lists.debian.org
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Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/

Re: [UX] - Design Exploration - Dockable Task Pane (Sidebar) - Tab User Interface Design


On 01.11.2012 09:59, Kevin Grignon wrote:

Hello All,

I've been exploring design alternatives for adding navigation tabs to the
docked task pane.

See:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Docked_Task_Pane_Container_-_Tab_User_Interface_Design



We should keep in mind that there are not only UX changes involved 
here.  I see three areas to work on:


1. UX.  Look and feel.  Kevin has made the first step in this area.

2. Programming framework.  There is already a UNO API for plugable 
sidebar controls in general.  There is a C++ framework for the side bar 
used in Impress.  These different approaches should be unified and 
extended to be usable by all AOO applications and by extension developers.


3. Sidebar content.  At the moment I only know the sidebar in AOO 
Impress (implemented a large part of it myself) and the Symphony sidebar.
I think that we want the sidebar for AOO Writer and Calc, too, and have 
to think about what to put into it.  Here we can learn and copy a lot 
from Symphony.


-Andre

Re: OpenOffice Developer Room (devroom) at FOSDEM


On 30.10.2012 22:10, jan iversen wrote:

Just for info, Juergen told me that he was going to talk about l10n on
apacheCon, so I suggested that we could make a speech at FOSDEM, because at
that time the new workflow is hopefully ready or so close that we know all
details.

A good theme for a main speech would be how the handle the build (and
release) process with internationalization in a big project like AOO.


Hi Jan,

I will be talking at ApacheCon EU about the AOO build system and only 
briefly mention l10n (how it works today).
Maybe you want to give a similar talk at FOSDEM but with a strong focus 
on l10n?


-Andre

Re: [UX] - Design Exploration - Dockable Task Pane (Sidebar) - Tab User Interface Design

2012/11/1 Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com

 On 01.11.2012 09:59, Kevin Grignon wrote:

 Hello All,

 I've been exploring design alternatives for adding navigation tabs to the
 docked task pane.

 See:
 http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/AOO_UX_Design_**
 Exploration_-_Docked_Task_**Pane_Container_-_Tab_User_**Interface_Designhttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_Exploration_-_Docked_Task_Pane_Container_-_Tab_User_Interface_Design


 We should keep in mind that there are not only UX changes involved here.
  I see three areas to work on:

 1. UX.  Look and feel.  Kevin has made the first step in this area.

 2. Programming framework.  There is already a UNO API for plugable sidebar
 controls in general.  There is a C++ framework for the side bar used in
 Impress.  These different approaches should be unified and extended to be
 usable by all AOO applications and by extension developers.

 3. Sidebar content.  At the moment I only know the sidebar in AOO Impress
 (implemented a large part of it myself) and the Symphony sidebar.


You can dock the stylist, the navigator, the gallery and the old fontwork
tool to have a sort of sidebar on all AOO components.

Regards
Ricardo


 I think that we want the sidebar for AOO Writer and Calc, too, and have to
 think about what to put into it.  Here we can learn and copy a lot from
 Symphony.

 -Andre

Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?

+1, what can I say apart from I am still here, and I mean to stay with AOO
for a long time.

Jan.

On 1 November 2012 15:18, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are
 being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to
 discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project.
 I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who
 submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging
 them from involvement in the project.

 This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth.

 I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and
 bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that
 sanctions such techniques.  If you recall we had a similar wave of
 such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external
 parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and
 telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a
 different product instead.

 I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you
 to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other
 public website.  Daylight is the best antiseptic as they say.  I am
 not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public
 scrutiny loses its potency.   But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads.


 Regards,

 -Rob

Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?

2012-11-01 Thread Alexandro Colorado

This should be a wake up call for the weak marketing effort it has
been going. Lack of connection with major information providers and
overal lack of PR. I hope this could change as we move forward. It
also puts new light on the discussion on marketing efforts/support,
funding and such.

On 11/1/12, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote:
 +1, what can I say apart from I am still here, and I mean to stay with AOO
 for a long time.

 Jan.

 On 1 November 2012 15:18, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are
 being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to
 discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project.
 I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who
 submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging
 them from involvement in the project.

 This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth.

 I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and
 bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that
 sanctions such techniques.  If you recall we had a similar wave of
 such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external
 parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and
 telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a
 different product instead.

 I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you
 to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other
 public website.  Daylight is the best antiseptic as they say.  I am
 not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public
 scrutiny loses its potency.   But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads.


 Regards,

 -Rob




-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: [QA Report]Weekly Defect Analysis Report as of 2012/10/29

2012-11-01 Thread Shenfeng Liu

Yan Ji,
  I used the following 2 queries:

All_Reported_Since -
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=doremremaction=runnamedcmd=All_Reported_Sincesharer_id=249089
All_Fixed_Since -
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=doremremaction=runnamedcmd=All_Fixed_Sincesharer_id=249089

  The start date was set to 2011-06-01. While you need to edit the queries
and set the end date to 2012-09-01, 2012-10-01, 2012-11-01. Then input the
data to defects.txt .
  Please help to update the chart. And tell me if any question. Thanks!

- Shenfeng Liu (Simon)



2012/11/1 Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com

 Thanks, I'll talk to Simon for the detail data.

 2012/11/1 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org

  On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com wrote:
   Hi Rob,
 Sure I can update this chart in my weekly report, please let me know
  how
   to do.
   1. Where should I upload the data to
   2. What the numbers mean, e.g. 2012-08-01,2316,1208, does this mean in
  2012
   Aug, 2316 defects opened and 1208 fixed?
  
 
  Shenfeng Liu created the original data file.  I don't know how he got
  the data.  Maybe you can ask him.
 
  If you post an update to the list (or the ooo-qa) list I can add to
  website for you.
 
  We can also add some text to that page to explain what the numbers mean.
 
  -Rob
 
 
   2012/10/29 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org
  
   On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com wrote:
Please find weekly defect analysis report
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/Report/DefectStatus/20121029
   
  
  
   Thanks for the report.
  
   Would it be possible to also get an update for this chart:
   http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.html  ???
  
   The data file is here:  http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.txt
  
   Can I get the right numbers from that report?
  
   -Rob
  
--
   
   
Thanks  Best Regards, Yan Ji
  
  
  
  
   --
  
  
   Thanks  Best Regards, Yan Ji
 



 --


 Thanks  Best Regards, Yan Ji

Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?

2012/11/1 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org

 I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are
 being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to
 discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project.
 I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who
 submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging
 them from involvement in the project.

 This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth.

 I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and
 bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that
 sanctions such techniques.  If you recall we had a similar wave of
 such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external
 parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and
 telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a
 different product instead.

 I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you
 to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other
 public website.  Daylight is the best antiseptic as they say.  I am
 not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public
 scrutiny loses its potency.   But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads.


There is and always will be people who do not understand what an opensource
project is and behave like hooligans defending their soccer team. I hope
they are just individuals and nothing more, but I fully agree to put each
case under daylight.

Regards
Ricardo





 Regards,

 -Rob

Re: Looking for guide to debug with MS Visual Studio Express


On 31.10.2012 13:40, Oliver-Rainer Wittmann wrote:

Hi,

On 31.10.2012 12:35, Regina Henschel wrote:

Hi all,

I read that debugging with MS Visual Studio works well. Is there 
somewhere a

guide for dummies how to do it?



The following steps should give you a start:
- Have your AOO build installed on the system.
- Build the module of interest with debug information
- Copy the resulting DLLs and PDB files of the module into the 
corresponding directory of the installation.
-- for gbuild modules like sw you find the DLLs and PDB files in 
/main/solver/350/wntmsci12/workdir/LinkTarget/Library/
-- for dmake modules like sd you find the DLLs and PDB files in 
/main/[module]/wntmsci12/bin/


I do it a little differently from here on because I am a lazy person who 
wants to press just one key to start debugging:


- Start Visual Studio
  The Express version is just fine.  I have been using it for most of 
my debugging for years.


- File-New Project

- In the new dialog:
  - In left list Installed Templates choose Visual C++-General
  - In center list choose Empty Project
  - In field near the bottom Location enter a path where the solution 
files will be stored.
  - In the field above that, Name, enter the name of the new project, 
eg aoo35

  - Click OK to close dialog

- Now the main window shows a new view.
- In the Solution Explorer on the left side you will now see an entry 
in bold typeface named aoo35.
- I usually delete the entries below it Header Files, Resource 
Files, Source Files.  These are used only when Visual Studio is used 
for editing. But that is just for my convenience

- Right click on the aoo35 entry.
- Click Properties

- In the aoo35 Property Pages dialog:
  - Select Configuration Properties-Debugging in the left box.
  - In the center box change values for Command to
office-installation-path/OpenOffice.org 3/program/soffice.bin
The .bin is important, do not use .exe
  - Set value for Environment to
PATH=office-installation-path/OpenOffice.org 3/URE/bin
  - [optional] Set value of Command Arguments to filename to load a 
file when AOO starts or to eg -impress to start AOO with the Impress 
application.

  - Click OK to close dialog


Now you are all set
Just press F5 to start Apache OpenOffice.

We probably should write a Wiki page for this.
There is one [1] about Windows Debugging but it looks quite scary.
Another one [2] is for the advanced Visual Studio user and tells you how 
to better visualize eg boost containers.



Have fun,
Andre


[1] http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Windows_Debugging
[2] http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/VisualStudioVisualizer

Re: OpenOffice Developer Room (devroom) at FOSDEM

A brilliant idea, especially if I may copy some of your slides...

I am still fumbling how the build works, and to be honest (NOT to criticize
anyone) I am not impressed.

Just one thing:

I do a build --all, which comes back OK, then I do a second build --all
and to my surprise it generates a couple of libraries again..I assumed I
had missed an error, so I tried it a third time, same thing happened,
libraries was built.

In my opion (and according with normal makefile schemes) once it completes
without errors, it  should not build anything a second time.

But putting that aside, I would be happy to focus on localization together
with jürgen, but if it is something you want to do it yourself thats ok
with me.

Jan.


On 1 November 2012 16:55, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote:

 On 30.10.2012 22:10, jan iversen wrote:

 Just for info, Juergen told me that he was going to talk about l10n on
 apacheCon, so I suggested that we could make a speech at FOSDEM, because
 at
 that time the new workflow is hopefully ready or so close that we know all
 details.

 A good theme for a main speech would be how the handle the build (and
 release) process with internationalization in a big project like AOO.


 Hi Jan,

 I will be talking at ApacheCon EU about the AOO build system and only
 briefly mention l10n (how it works today).
 Maybe you want to give a similar talk at FOSDEM but with a strong focus on
 l10n?

 -Andre

Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?

Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and
people who are just blowing hot air.

To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, and
have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is
something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart marketing,
but by showing the developers, that we really care about their
contributions.

If I may say so, some developers might see the apache way as a
limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, I
think we really need to focus on the community instead of telling people
about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat the
big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in
EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!!

Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really
really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets
not forget why we are all here.

Jan

On 1 November 2012 17:20, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 2012/11/1 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org

  I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are
  being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to
  discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project.
  I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who
  submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging
  them from involvement in the project.
 
  This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth.
 
  I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and
  bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that
  sanctions such techniques.  If you recall we had a similar wave of
  such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external
  parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and
  telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a
  different product instead.
 
  I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you
  to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other
  public website.  Daylight is the best antiseptic as they say.  I am
  not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public
  scrutiny loses its potency.   But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads.
 

 There is and always will be people who do not understand what an opensource
 project is and behave like hooligans defending their soccer team. I hope
 they are just individuals and nothing more, but I fully agree to put each
 case under daylight.

 Regards
 Ricardo



 
 
  Regards,
 
  -Rob

Re: [question] build infra structure.


On 31.10.2012 22:20, jan iversen wrote:

Hi

I have been searching for detailed internal information about how the build
process works with build and dmake (gnumake).

I have seen the relationship in the single directories (prj/build.lst
prj/d.lst and makefile.mk), but I cannot find a central makefile.

If I understand life, there should be a central makefile, telling e.g. how
.cpp is translated to .o


Pah, who needs a central makefile if he can have a Perl file instead :-)

Sorry, I could not resist.  I am currently preparing a talk for 
ApacheCon about the AOO build system and it is somewhat depressing to 
see how bizarre some things are.


If I find the time after ApacheCon then I will turn my talk into a Wiki 
page or one or several blog posts.

Here is the short version.

First there is configure and bootstrap.  But I think that you have 
mastered that step already.


Then comes the actual building.  The central makefile is 
main/solenv/bin/build.pl, yes, a Perl script.  It reads 
module/prj/build.lst files to

a) determine the dependency between modules and (just the first line)
b) find the directories inside each module that have to be built.  
(all other lines)
build.pl starts at main/instsetoo_native/prj/build.pl  and follows the 
dependency to other modules.


build.pl can handle multi process builds and uses the module dependency 
graph to build modules in the right order.

It can do partial builds:
  build --all --from module  ignores all modules before module when 
building AOO (in the linearization of the dependency graph)
  build --all   called in another module than instsetoo_native builds 
all dependencies and stops when the current module is built.


build.pl calls dmake for every module, regardless of whether they are 
dmake or gbuild modules.
- For dmake modules it calls dmake for all directories listed in 
prj/build.lst
- For gbuild modules it does the same but prj/build.lst only contains 
one entry which points to util/makefile.mk

  This util/makefile.mk then chains GNU make for module/Makefile
  gbuild modules have all their makefiles in their top level 
directory.  One makefile per library or other main targets.


Both dmake and gbuild distinguish between data and build logic.  The 
modules usually contain only descriptions of which source files have to 
be compiled and which libraries are to be linked.  How that is done, on 
all the different platforms, compilers, environment variables is handled 
by makefiles in

   solenv/incfor dmake
   solenv/gbuild  for gbuild



The last part of the build process is the creation of installation 
sets.  It is triggered by instsetoo_native/util/makefile.mk which 
basically just calls solenv/bin/make_installer.pl with a cleverly 
selected bunch of parameters.  make_installer.pl uses a larger number of 
Perl modules under solenv/bin/modules/installer which then do the actual 
work of collecting the relevant files, copying them into a temporary 
directory into a runnable office, and finally packing them into a 
package that fits the target platform.



I am aware that the above is still very terse.  I am happy to answer any 
questions (if I know the answer).


Regards,
Andre



Can somebody please point me in the direction, or tell me if it done in a
different way ?

My reason for asking is that I need to add  a set of new standard rules for
localization (.xhlp - .po )

Thanks in advance.
Jan

another XML file for the Consultants-Page

2012-11-01 Thread Jörg Schmidt

Hello,

here is another XML file for an entry in:
http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html

Can someone please check and then add?

Thank you.


Greetings,
Jörg


XML-File:

 consultant
nameUwe Altmann Unternehmensberatung/name
countryDE/country
practiceDeployment/practice
practiceSupport/practice
practiceDevelopment/practice
practiceDocumentation/practice
descriptionHelping small business customers since many years in using 
and optimizing IT solutions. This is done by careful requirements analysis, 
migration support, professional project management and continuous user support 
based on individual agreements./description
websitehttp://www.altsys.de/website
emailuwe.altm...@altsys.de/email
phone+49 681 96 02 13 39/phone
/consultant

Re: [question] build infra structure.

See below please.

THANKS for your VERY informative answer, it helped me a lot.

I was of the simple idea, that we pursued a simple build process made up of
gnuMake and an addon to gather for the shortcoming of gnumake in respect of
cascaded makefiles.

I hope to see your presentation on video later, due to personal budget
restriction (dont we all have that) I cannot participate.

Jan.

On 1 November 2012 17:44, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote:

 On 31.10.2012 22:20, jan iversen wrote:

 Hi

 I have been searching for detailed internal information about how the
 build
 process works with build and dmake (gnumake).

 I have seen the relationship in the single directories (prj/build.lst
 prj/d.lst and makefile.mk), but I cannot find a central makefile.

 If I understand life, there should be a central makefile, telling e.g. how
 .cpp is translated to .o


 Pah, who needs a central makefile if he can have a Perl file instead :-)

 Sorry, I could not resist.  I am currently preparing a talk for ApacheCon
 about the AOO build system and it is somewhat depressing to see how bizarre
 some things are.

It´s quite OK, I learn fast :-) (and being a dane I like that kind of
jokes/hints)


 If I find the time after ApacheCon then I will turn my talk into a Wiki
 page or one or several blog posts.
 Here is the short version.

 First there is configure and bootstrap.  But I think that you have
 mastered that step already.

 Then comes the actual building.  The central makefile is main/solenv/bin/
 build.pl, yes, a Perl script.  It reads module/prj/build.lst files to
 a) determine the dependency between modules and (just the first line)
 b) find the directories inside each module that have to be built.
  (all other lines)
 build.pl starts at main/instsetoo_native/prj/buil**d.pl http://build.pl and 
 follows the dependency to other modules.

 build.pl can handle multi process builds and uses the module dependency
 graph to build modules in the right order.
 It can do partial builds:
   build --all --from module  ignores all modules before module when
 building AOO (in the linearization of the dependency graph)
   build --all   called in another module than instsetoo_native builds all
 dependencies and stops when the current module is built.

 build.pl calls dmake for every module, regardless of whether they are
 dmake or gbuild modules.
 - For dmake modules it calls dmake for all directories listed in
 prj/build.lst
 - For gbuild modules it does the same but prj/build.lst only contains one
 entry which points to util/makefile.mk
   This util/makefile.mk then chains GNU make for module/Makefile
   gbuild modules have all their makefiles in their top level directory.
  One makefile per library or other main targets.

Why dont we just use dmake/gnumake, have a makefile in each directory which
includes a master makefile ?


 Both dmake and gbuild distinguish between data and build logic.  The
 modules usually contain only descriptions of which source files have to be
 compiled and which libraries are to be linked.  How that is done, on all
 the different platforms, compilers, environment variables is handled by
 makefiles in
solenv/incfor dmake
solenv/gbuild  for gbuild

A  I wrong in saying that the bulid list and  delivery list could just as
easily have been expressed as a target in makefile.in ???

Please forgive me, I am (as one who looks at the process with new eyes)
just floating ideas ?




 The last part of the build process is the creation of installation sets.
  It is triggered by 
 instsetoo_native/util/makefile**.mkhttp://makefile.mkwhich basically just 
 calls solenv/bin/
 make_installer.pl with a cleverly selected bunch of parameters.
 make_installer.pl uses a larger number of Perl modules under
 solenv/bin/modules/installer which then do the actual work of collecting
 the relevant files, copying them into a temporary directory into a runnable
 office, and finally packing them into a package that fits the target
 platform.


 I am aware that the above is still very terse.  I am happy to answer any
 questions (if I know the answer).

Thanks again, you actually helped me a lot 



 Regards,
 Andre



 Can somebody please point me in the direction, or tell me if it done in a
 different way ?

 My reason for asking is that I need to add  a set of new standard rules
 for
 localization (.xhlp - .po )

 Thanks in advance.
 Jan

Re: Have uploaded five nice presentation template

On 01.11.2012 10:00, Xin Li wrote:
 Hi，

 I have uploaded five nice presentation template. Welcome to have a try and
 give me some feedback.  Thanks.

 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8966
 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8968
 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8970
 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8972
 http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8974

I like them all.
It really gets time to clean up the set of AOO templates, drop the ugly
ones (not sure how many would remain) and replace them by prettier ones
like yours.

-Andre

Re: [question] build infra structure.


On 01.11.2012 17:57, jan iversen wrote:

See below please.

THANKS for your VERY informative answer, it helped me a lot.

I was of the simple idea, that we pursued a simple build process made up of
gnuMake and an addon to gather for the shortcoming of gnumake in respect of
cascaded makefiles.


We are in the process of migrating from dmake to GNU make.
When that is finished then we will have essentially one single 
makefile.  Well, there will be one top level makefile that includes all 
the other makefiles.  But there will not one make process that starts 
other makes in subprocesses.  That would be evil, or so I have been 
told, see http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis




I hope to see your presentation on video later, due to personal budget
restriction (dont we all have that) I cannot participate.

Sorry to hear that, I would have liked to meet you.



Jan.

On 1 November 2012 17:44, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote:


On 31.10.2012 22:20, jan iversen wrote:


Hi

I have been searching for detailed internal information about how the
build
process works with build and dmake (gnumake).

I have seen the relationship in the single directories (prj/build.lst
prj/d.lst and makefile.mk), but I cannot find a central makefile.

If I understand life, there should be a central makefile, telling e.g. how
.cpp is translated to .o


Pah, who needs a central makefile if he can have a Perl file instead :-)

Sorry, I could not resist.  I am currently preparing a talk for ApacheCon
about the AOO build system and it is somewhat depressing to see how bizarre
some things are.


It´s quite OK, I learn fast :-) (and being a dane I like that kind of
jokes/hints)


If I find the time after ApacheCon then I will turn my talk into a Wiki
page or one or several blog posts.
Here is the short version.

First there is configure and bootstrap.  But I think that you have
mastered that step already.

Then comes the actual building.  The central makefile is main/solenv/bin/
build.pl, yes, a Perl script.  It reads module/prj/build.lst files to
a) determine the dependency between modules and (just the first line)
b) find the directories inside each module that have to be built.
  (all other lines)
build.pl starts at main/instsetoo_native/prj/buil**d.pl http://build.pl and 
follows the dependency to other modules.

build.pl can handle multi process builds and uses the module dependency
graph to build modules in the right order.
It can do partial builds:
   build --all --from module  ignores all modules before module when
building AOO (in the linearization of the dependency graph)
   build --all   called in another module than instsetoo_native builds all
dependencies and stops when the current module is built.

build.pl calls dmake for every module, regardless of whether they are
dmake or gbuild modules.
- For dmake modules it calls dmake for all directories listed in
prj/build.lst
- For gbuild modules it does the same but prj/build.lst only contains one
entry which points to util/makefile.mk
   This util/makefile.mk then chains GNU make for module/Makefile
   gbuild modules have all their makefiles in their top level directory.
  One makefile per library or other main targets.


Why dont we just use dmake/gnumake, have a makefile in each directory which
includes a master makefile ?
I guess there are historical reasons for that.  And then there is the 
not-invented-here syndrome.


I have made an experiment a few months ago in which I wrote a Perl 
script that reads all prj/build.lst files and creates one GNU makefile 
that did what build --all does.   Worked like a charm.  It just has not 
many advantages over build.pl.  Especially when we proceed with the 
dmake to gbuild transition and will have the centeral makefile in a few 
months.





Both dmake and gbuild distinguish between data and build logic.  The
modules usually contain only descriptions of which source files have to be
compiled and which libraries are to be linked.  How that is done, on all
the different platforms, compilers, environment variables is handled by
makefiles in
solenv/incfor dmake
solenv/gbuild  for gbuild


A  I wrong in saying that the bulid list and  delivery list could just as
easily have been expressed as a target in makefile.in ???


Yes, certainly.  But when you use a makefile for inter-module 
dependencies then you get a much finer granularity.  That is one of the 
goals of gbuild.  Change one file in VCL, run build -all in 
instsetoo_native and only the files that directly or indirectly depend 
on the modified files are built.  Today you have to rebuild all modules 
completely that depend on VCL.




Please forgive me, I am (as one who looks at the process with new eyes)
just floating ideas ?


That is, of course, a good thing.  I am not so differently in that I did 
not know much about the build system when I worked at Sun and later 
Oracle.  Our release engineers took care of it.  It became necessary

Re: [question] build infra structure.

you See below please.

On 1 November 2012 18:18, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote:

On 01.11.2012 17:57, jan iversen wrote:

See below please.

THANKS for your VERY informative answer, it helped me a lot.

I was of the simple idea, that we pursued a simple build process made up
of
gnuMake and an addon to gather for the shortcoming of gnumake in respect
of
cascaded makefiles.

We are in the process of migrating from dmake to GNU make.
When that is finished then we will have essentially one single makefile.
Well, there will be one top level makefile that includes all the other
makefiles. But there will not one make process that starts other makes in
subprocesses. That would be evil, or so I have been told, see
http://wiki.openoffice.org/**wiki/Build_System_Analysishttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Build_System_Analysis

I am in the process of changing the l10n process. Currently it runs on one
makefile that searches all directories, I want to change that to a target
in every local makefile (build.lst).

Can I attach myself to your progress, or would you suggest that I attach my
development to the current build process. my timeline is somewhat around
new year.

I hope to see your presentation on video later, due to personal budget
restriction (dont we all have that) I cannot participate.

Sorry to hear that, I would have liked to meet you.

Well if you come to FOSDEM, we can have a long chat. My problem is that I
am currently only a contributor so that ticket alone is 600,- EUR.

I am also prepared for google/skype videochats.

Jan.

On 1 November 2012 17:44, Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com wrote:

On 31.10.2012 22:20, jan iversen wrote:

I have been searching for detailed internal information about how the
build
process works with build and dmake (gnumake).

I have seen the relationship in the single directories (prj/build.lst
prj/d.lst and makefile.mk), but I cannot find a central makefile.

If I understand life, there should be a central makefile, telling e.g.
how
.cpp is translated to .o

Pah, who needs a central makefile if he can have a Perl file instead
:-)

Sorry, I could not resist. I am currently preparing a talk for ApacheCon
about the AOO build system and it is somewhat depressing to see how
bizarre
some things are.

It´s quite OK, I learn fast :-) (and being a dane I like that kind of
jokes/hints)

If I find the time after ApacheCon then I will turn my talk into a Wiki
page or one or several blog posts.
Here is the short version.

First there is configure and bootstrap. But I think that you have
mastered that step already.

Then comes the actual building. The central makefile is main/solenv/bin/
build.pl, yes, a Perl script. It reads module/prj/build.lst files to
a) determine the dependency between modules and (just the first line)
b) find the directories inside each module that have to be built.
(all other lines)
build.pl starts at main/instsetoo_native/prj/**buil**d.pl
http://build.pl and follows the dependency to other modules.

build.pl can handle multi process builds and uses the module dependency
graph to build modules in the right order.
It can do partial builds:
build --all --from module ignores all modules before module when
building AOO (in the linearization of the dependency graph)
build --all called in another module than instsetoo_native builds
all
dependencies and stops when the current module is built.

build.pl calls dmake for every module, regardless of whether they are
dmake or gbuild modules.
- For dmake modules it calls dmake for all directories listed in
prj/build.lst
- For gbuild modules it does the same but prj/build.lst only contains one
entry which points to util/makefile.mk
This util/makefile.mk then chains GNU make for module/Makefile
gbuild modules have all their makefiles in their top level directory.
One makefile per library or other main targets.

Why dont we just use dmake/gnumake, have a makefile in each directory
which
includes a master makefile ?

I guess there are historical reasons for that. And then there is the
not-invented-here syndrome.

I have made an experiment a few months ago in which I wrote a Perl script
that reads all prj/build.lst files and creates one GNU makefile that did
what build --all does. Worked like a charm. It just has not many
advantages over build.pl. Especially when we proceed with the dmake to
gbuild transition and will have the centeral makefile in a few months.

Both dmake and gbuild distinguish between data and build logic. The
modules usually contain only descriptions of which source files have to
be
compiled and which libraries are to be linked. How that is done, on all
the different platforms, compilers, environment variables is handled by
makefiles in
solenv/incfor dmake
solenv/gbuild for gbuild

A I wrong in saying that the bulid list and delivery list

Re: [QA Report]Weekly Defect Analysis Report as of 2012/10/29

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Shenfeng Liu liush...@gmail.com wrote:
Yan Ji,
I used the following 2 queries:

All_Reported_Since -
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=doremremaction=runnamedcmd=All_Reported_Sincesharer_id=249089
All_Fixed_Since -
https://issues.apache.org/ooo/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=doremremaction=runnamedcmd=All_Fixed_Sincesharer_id=249089

The start date was set to 2011-06-01. While you need to edit the queries
and set the end date to 2012-09-01, 2012-10-01, 2012-11-01. Then input the
data to defects.txt .
Please help to update the chart. And tell me if any question. Thanks!

Thanks for that explanation. I updated the data file and also added a
paragraph explaining where the data comes from. This should help
whoever updates the chart in the future.

http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.html

-Rob

- Shenfeng Liu (Simon)

2012/11/1 Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com

Thanks, I'll talk to Simon for the detail data.

2012/11/1 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 9:23 PM, Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Rob,
Sure I can update this chart in my weekly report, please let me know
how
to do.
1. Where should I upload the data to
2. What the numbers mean, e.g. 2012-08-01,2316,1208, does this mean in
2012
Aug, 2316 defects opened and 1208 fixed?

Shenfeng Liu created the original data file. I don't know how he got
the data. Maybe you can ask him.

If you post an update to the list (or the ooo-qa) list I can add to
website for you.

We can also add some text to that page to explain what the numbers mean.

-Rob

2012/10/29 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:20 AM, Ji Yan yanji...@gmail.com wrote:
Please find weekly defect analysis report
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/QA/Report/DefectStatus/20121029

Thanks for the report.

Would it be possible to also get an update for this chart:
http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.html ???

The data file is here: http://www.openoffice.org/stats/defects.txt

Can I get the right numbers from that report?

-Rob

Thanks Best Regards, Yan Ji

Chinese translators: please join ooo-L10N

2012-11-01 Thread Andrea Pescetti

We obviously have a group of Chinese-speaking people who are translating 
OpenOffice, press releases and web pages into (variants of) Chinese.


If you are in this group, please remember to join the ooo-L10N mailing 
list http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-l10n/ since 
we have some newcomers who would like to join the Chinese localization 
team: see for example http://s.apache.org/Cwk


(the same holds for everyone else involved with translation of course, 
in any language)


Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Chinese translators: please join ooo-L10N

2012-11-01 Thread imacat

On 11/02/12 02:05, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
 We obviously have a group of Chinese-speaking people who are translating
 OpenOffice, press releases and web pages into (variants of) Chinese.
 
 If you are in this group, please remember to join the ooo-L10N mailing
 list http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-l10n/ since
 we have some newcomers who would like to join the Chinese localization
 team: see for example http://s.apache.org/Cwk

I already joined it, although I have not spoken on it yet.

 
 (the same holds for everyone else involved with translation of course,
 in any language)
 
 Regards,
   Andrea.


-- 
Best regards,
imacat ^_*' ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw
PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc

Woman's Voice News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/
Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/
Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/
OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/
EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/
Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

Clone URL (Committers only):
https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n-new%2Findex.mdtext

jan iversen

Index: trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext
===
--- trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext (revision 1404729)
+++ trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext (working copy)
@@ -30,21 +30,9 @@
 - [UI][2]
 - [Help][3]
 
-## The site is undergoing a major overhaul!
 
-We are working hard at a new workflow, that involves translators more
-directly in the release process. This site plays a major role in the new
-workflow, so please accept our apoligies for the state of the site.
-All old content can be found under the menupoint archive.
 
-## Questions or comments?
 
-Contact us [ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org][4] or subscribe
-[ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org][5].
-
-
 [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization
 [2]: https://translate.apache.org/projects/OOo_34/
 [3]: https://translate.apache.org/projects/OOo_34_help/
-[4]: mailto:ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org
-[5]: mailto:ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org

CMS diff:

Clone URL (Committers only):
https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n-new%2Fleftnav.mdtext

jan iversen

Index: trunk/content/l10n-new/leftnav.mdtext
===
--- trunk/content/l10n-new/leftnav.mdtext   (revision 1404729)
+++ trunk/content/l10n-new/leftnav.mdtext   (working copy)
@@ -1,12 +1,18 @@
 divid: leftnav
 
-# Some Header 1
+# News
+## The site is undergoing a major overhaul!
 
+We are working hard at a new workflow, that involves translators more
+directly in the release process. This site plays a major role in the new
+workflow, so please accept our apologies for the state of the site.
+
+# Links
+
   - [How To Join](/l10n-new/how_to_join.html)
   - [Support](/l10n-new/support.html)
-  - [Team](/l10n-new/team.html)
 
-# Some Header 2
+## Questions or comments?
 
-  - [Documentation](/l10n-new/documentation.html)
-  - [FAQ](/l10n-new/faq.html)
+Contact us 
[ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org][mailto:ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org] or 
subscribe
+[ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org][ 
mailto:ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org].

Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?

2012-11-01 Thread Dave Fisher

Hi Jan,

We are all here as individuals with various and different amounts of time and 
energy. Many are employed to work on OpenOffice, but many like me are 
volunteers who have demanding day jobs. The key part of the Apache Way is that 
leadership comes from DOING and COMMUNICATING.

You are new here with lots of admirable energy and work! This is what acquires 
merit in an Apache project!

Since we ultimately can only control ourselves, do you have any suggestions 
about how we can more actively encourage participation?

Best Regards,
Dave

On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:38 AM, jan iversen wrote:

 Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and
 people who are just blowing hot air.
 
 To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum, and
 have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is
 something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart marketing,
 but by showing the developers, that we really care about their
 contributions.
 
 If I may say so, some developers might see the apache way as a
 limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms, I
 think we really need to focus on the community instead of telling people
 about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat the
 big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in
 EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!!
 
 Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really
 really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets
 not forget why we are all here.
 
 Jan
 
 On 1 November 2012 17:20, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 2012/11/1 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org
 
 I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are
 being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to
 discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project.
 I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who
 submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging
 them from involvement in the project.
 
 This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth.
 
 I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and
 bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that
 sanctions such techniques.  If you recall we had a similar wave of
 such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external
 parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and
 telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a
 different product instead.
 
 I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you
 to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other
 public website.  Daylight is the best antiseptic as they say.  I am
 not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public
 scrutiny loses its potency.   But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads.
 
 
 There is and always will be people who do not understand what an opensource
 project is and behave like hooligans defending their soccer team. I hope
 they are just individuals and nothing more, but I fully agree to put each
 case under daylight.
 
 Regards
 Ricardo
 
 
 
 
 
 Regards,
 
 -Rob

AOO.Next IBM Priorities

2012-11-01 Thread robert_weir

A quick note, wearing my IBM hat. 

We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product 
teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next 
AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or 
interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we 
want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our 
employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be 
focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the 
details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at 
ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.

Our top priorities:

-- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting 
digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update 
feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image 
for just a minor update.

-- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported 
over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won 
quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar 
panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say 
compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate, 
especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

-- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

-- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible 
adoption of gestures.

-- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve 
accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

-- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user 
experience.

-- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh 
and relevant.

-- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their 
thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior. 
Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well 
as generic Share... actions. 

-- And many other smaller items

Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and 
releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work 
could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013 
time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to 
warrant a 4.0 designation.

In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items. 
As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things 
that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one 
of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help 
designing and implementing these features.

Regards,

-Rob

Re: Have you been contacted via private email and discouraged from participating on the OpenOffice project?

Hi Dave.

Even though I have stopped my companies, I still have many other things to
do than working on AOO, and when I had my companies I had limited time, so
I can for sure follow you. Today I am just trying to help open source as
such, because it has helped me a lot in my career.

And to answer your question, yes I do have some ideas (but they might be
wrong), I have listed some of the important ones below:
- We need to focus more on people who want to help, instead of using all
the legal stuff (which are necessary) as a buffer not to move things. (e.g.
I got 2 volunteers working on a danish translation, highly motivated, now
we are discussing details about how to release the stuff). I think Rob is
having a lead here with his new web pages.
- We do NOT want a war of religions between AOO and others, ASF is well
known, upper end of free software, so we should be publicly asking for
collaboration.
- I think events like ApacheCon is nice, but events like FOSDEM is quite a
lot more important for the ordinary openSource developer.
- I would like to see more marketing for developers, instead of
businesses...I think we need to get back to roots where a developers think
its fun, and pride to develop AOO. We could easily e.g. make challenges
like who can solve this problem.

I am new to AOO (so I am either interfering or bringing in new views), but
I have quite some years of experience with openSource and I am a strong
believer of ASF. The apache way is in many ways a limitation, but at the
end it is the guarantee for a better end-user product.

Please accept my apologies, if I have broken n-policies, but I think the
question from Dave was well placed, and well formulated so it deserved a
straight answer.

Jan.





On 1 November 2012 20:51, Dave Fisher dave2w...@comcast.net wrote:

 Hi Jan,

 We are all here as individuals with various and different amounts of time
 and energy. Many are employed to work on OpenOffice, but many like me are
 volunteers who have demanding day jobs. The key part of the Apache Way is
 that leadership comes from DOING and COMMUNICATING.

 You are new here with lots of admirable energy and work! This is what
 acquires merit in an Apache project!

 Since we ultimately can only control ourselves, do you have any
 suggestions about how we can more actively encourage participation?

 Best Regards,
 Dave

 On Nov 1, 2012, at 9:38 AM, jan iversen wrote:

  Please excuse me, I think I know the difference between hooligans and
  people who are just blowing hot air.
 
  To be honest, at the moment AOO does NOT have a great deal of momentum,
 and
  have (I think) lost a quite a lot of reputation among developers. That is
  something we have to remedy, not by glittering folders, or smart
 marketing,
  but by showing the developers, that we really care about their
  contributions.
 
  If I may say so, some developers might see the apache way as a
  limitation, which my experience during the last month somewhat confirms,
 I
  think we really need to focus on the community instead of telling
 people
  about legal issues, but about getting a product that still can out beat
 the
  big (costly) products out there. Do NOT forget some state institutions in
  EU choose OpenOffice against other, but today I would not be so sure !!!
 
  Sorry for the outburst, but I am used to say what I think, and I really
  really want AOO to be the opensource project, as it was in the past. Lets
  not forget why we are all here.
 
  Jan
 
  On 1 November 2012 17:20, RGB ES rgb.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  2012/11/1 Rob Weir robw...@apache.org
 
  I'm hearing that some project volunteers, especially new ones, are
  being contacted by certain external parties, who then try to
  discourage them from contributing to the Apache OpenOffice project.
  I'm hearing that similar notes have been sent out to those who
  submitted listings to our new Consultants Directory, also discouraging
  them from involvement in the project.
 
  This is my personal view on this matter, for what it is worth.
 
  I think we all would agree that such techniques are deplorable and
  bring disrepute to the individuals involved, and to the project that
  sanctions such techniques.  If you recall we had a similar wave of
  such unprofessional behavior a few months ago, when certain external
  parties were contacting journalists who mentioned OpenOffice and
  telling them that it was no longer being developed and to link to a
  different product instead.
 
  I any case, if you are receiving such FUD yourself, I'd encourage you
  to simply post it to this mailing list, or to your blog, or some other
  public website.  Daylight is the best antiseptic as they say.  I am
  not a medical doctor, but I do believe that FUD exposed to public
  scrutiny loses its potency.   But FUD ignored is FUD that spreads.
 
 
  There is and always will be people who do not understand what an
 opensource
  project is and behave like hooligans defending their soccer team.

Re: extensions and translations.

2012-11-01 Thread Marcus (OOo)


Am 11/01/2012 01:17 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@gmail.com  wrote:

On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
project).

never mind.

Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
(that is
how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a language
file
and get it translated as part of the language packs ?


Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project and
software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.

However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit. When
we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers will
ask why not their extensions.


It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy create
a special section in our repo where we can host them.

But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...




+1

I think the important thing is this:  We don't just want code.  We
want communities.  So if an extension author thinks that their
extension is generally useful and he/she wants to join the AOO
community and work on the extension here, and allow others to work on
it as well, then this is good.


Of course, +1.


We can have a set of standard extensions.


So, we just need to define the standard.

Marcus




And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.

But maybe others here have a great idea?


we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-). But I
can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.

Juergen




Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and help
AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?

Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.


Yeah, maybe. ;-)

Marcus




On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de   wrote:


Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

   While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a slight

problem.

Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.

Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/how
does that get integrated into the
translation process ?



Simply, not at all.


   As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our build
--all

--with-lang.



Right.


   If I am right that they are not part of the general translation,
then is

that per design so or should it be different ?



Yes, this is by design.

Extensions are offered to extent your AOO install at any point of time.
These are developed by people that do not have to belong to our project
(when we put aside some exceptions). They can act independently. And
therefore they are allowed to (or have to ;-) ) do all on their own;
incl.
translation.

That applies for all extensions and templates available on:

-
http://extensions.services.**openoffice.orghttp://extensions.services.openoffice.org

-
http://templates.services.**openoffice.orghttp://templates.services.openoffice.org



   I might be following a wrong track here, but please forgive me for
trying

to make the l10n process as complete as I can.



Don't panic. That's a great goal and everybody is thankful to you for
doing this task.

Marcus

[mwiki]SyntaxHighlight extension use wrong colours

A volunteer on the ES wiki that is working on an introduction to macro
programming, informed that the SyntaxHighlight extension is using the wrong
colours for StarBasic, Python and JavaScript.

Is this something that needs to be informed directly to mediawiki or the
colours used by the extension are a configuration option set on our side?

Regards
Ricardo

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

I committed this.  A did a little clean up.  The left nav wasn't
handling the long email list addresses well (wasn't wrapping them) so
I rewrote to user shorter names.

It is starting to look good:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/

Good work!

My unsolicited feedback, which you are free to ignore, is that the
news might go better on the right, as another column.  That way the
links on the left are always at the top of their column, which seems
more natural to me. That also gives space to have more than one news
story without displacing navigation elements.

-Rob

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:34 PM, jan iversen anonym...@apache.org wrote:
 Clone URL (Committers only):
 https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n-new%2Findex.mdtext

 jan iversen

 Index: trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext
 ===
 --- trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext (revision 1404729)
 +++ trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext (working copy)
 @@ -30,21 +30,9 @@
  - [UI][2]
  - [Help][3]

 -## The site is undergoing a major overhaul!

 -We are working hard at a new workflow, that involves translators more
 -directly in the release process. This site plays a major role in the new
 -workflow, so please accept our apoligies for the state of the site.
 -All old content can be found under the menupoint archive.

 -## Questions or comments?

 -Contact us [ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org][4] or subscribe
 -[ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org][5].
 -
 -
  [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization
  [2]: https://translate.apache.org/projects/OOo_34/
  [3]: https://translate.apache.org/projects/OOo_34_help/
 -[4]: mailto:ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org
 -[5]: mailto:ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

Thanks for the note, however knowing IBM I had hoped that one of the
official goals was to help the development part of the community to get
stabilized.

I acknowledge that it is important for IBM to get an output of invested
energy/time/money, but I think IBM would benefit not only from features but
also from the soft points of helping the community.

that being said in response to your IBM HAT, but I do feel that you and
other IBM Fellows still do a great job in getting  the community to prosper.

Jan.

On 1 November 2012 17:45, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.

 We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
 teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
 AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
 interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
 want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
 employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
 focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
 details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
 ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.

 Our top priorities:

 -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting
 digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
 feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
 for just a minor update.

 -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
 over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
 quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
 panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
 compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
 especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

 -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

 -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
 adoption of gestures.

 -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
 accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

 -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
 experience.

 -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
 and relevant.

 -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
 thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
 Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
 as generic Share... actions.

 -- And many other smaller items

 Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
 releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
 could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
 time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
 warrant a 4.0 designation.

 In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
 As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
 that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
 of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
 designing and implementing these features.

 Regards,

 -Rob

Re: extensions and translations.

Can standard loosely be defined as an extension:
- is developed by people who have signed ICLA
- uses the apache license header in the source files
- is of interest to the general public in different countries
- is willing to let the source be controlled/reviewed by committer.
- accept a vote by the committers to be accepted

If those points are fuillfilled we could add the project to swext, and
then it would automatically be integrated in the build and l10n process.

Please help me out here, I am not sure if that is enough for the apache
way.

Jan.


On 1 November 2012 21:24, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote:

 Am 11/01/2012 01:17 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

  On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

 Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

 I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
 believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
 project).

 never mind.

 Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
 (that is
 how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a language
 file
 and get it translated as part of the language packs ?


 Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project and
 software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.

 However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit. When
 we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers will
 ask why not their extensions.


 It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
 ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy create
 a special section in our repo where we can host them.

 But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
 stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...



 +1

 I think the important thing is this:  We don't just want code.  We
 want communities.  So if an extension author thinks that their
 extension is generally useful and he/she wants to join the AOO
 community and work on the extension here, and allow others to work on
 it as well, then this is good.


 Of course, +1.


  We can have a set of standard extensions.


 So, we just need to define the standard.

 Marcus




  And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.

 But maybe others here have a great idea?


 we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-). But I
 can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.

 Juergen


  Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and
 help
 AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?

 Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.


 Yeah, maybe. ;-)

 Marcus



  On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de   wrote:

  Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a slight

 problem.

 Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.

 Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
 http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/
 http://www.**openoffice.org/extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/
 how
 does that get integrated into the
 translation process ?


 Simply, not at all.


As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our build
 --all

 --with-lang.


 Right.


If I am right that they are not part of the general translation,
 then is

 that per design so or should it be different ?


 Yes, this is by design.

 Extensions are offered to extent your AOO install at any point of
 time.
 These are developed by people that do not have to belong to our
 project
 (when we put aside some exceptions). They can act independently. And
 therefore they are allowed to (or have to ;-) ) do all on their own;
 incl.
 translation.

 That applies for all extensions and templates available on:

 -
 http://extensions.services.**o**penoffice.org http://openoffice.org
 http://**extensions.services.**openoffice.orghttp://extensions.services.openoffice.org
 

 -
 http://templates.services.**op**enoffice.org http://openoffice.org
 http://templates.**services.openoffice.orghttp://templates.services.openoffice.org
 



I might be following a wrong track here, but please forgive me for
 trying

 to make the l10n process as complete as I can.


 Don't panic. That's a great goal and everybody is thankful to you for
 doing this task.

 Marcus

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

On 11/1/12 9:53 PM, jan iversen wrote:
 Thanks for the note, however knowing IBM I had hoped that one of the
 official goals was to help the development part of the community to get
 stabilized.
 
 I acknowledge that it is important for IBM to get an output of invested
 energy/time/money, but I think IBM would benefit not only from features but
 also from the soft points of helping the community.
 
 that being said in response to your IBM HAT, but I do feel that you and
 other IBM Fellows still do a great job in getting  the community to prosper.

I hope so and the priorities were focused on the product only and not on
the community aspects that are of course very important for us as well.

Juergen


 
 Jan.
 
 On 1 November 2012 17:45, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:
 
 A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.

 We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
 teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
 AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
 interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
 want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
 employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
 focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
 details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
 ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.

 Our top priorities:

 -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting
 digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
 feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
 for just a minor update.

 -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
 over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
 quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
 panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
 compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
 especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

 -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

 -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
 adoption of gestures.

 -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
 accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

 -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
 experience.

 -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
 and relevant.

 -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
 thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
 Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
 as generic Share... actions.

 -- And many other smaller items

 Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
 releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
 could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
 time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
 warrant a 4.0 designation.

 In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
 As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
 that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
 of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
 designing and implementing these features.

 Regards,

 -Rob

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

2012-11-01 Thread Alexandro Colorado

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:53 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the note, however knowing IBM I had hoped that one of the
 official goals was to help the development part of the community to get
 stabilized.


This is what their costumers asked for, not IBM itself. Costumers dont care
about development, most of the time. They think everyting is created with
Pixeldust.



 I acknowledge that it is important for IBM to get an output of invested
 energy/time/money, but I think IBM would benefit not only from features but
 also from the soft points of helping the community.


I was a bit disapointed they didnt asked for some more 'enterprise-ready'
features like integration with ERP systems, tivoli, and credential
management of profiles, improve Base and add bridge to DB2 or something in
those veins.



 that being said in response to your IBM HAT, but I do feel that you and
 other IBM Fellows still do a great job in getting  the community to
 prosper.

 Jan.

 On 1 November 2012 17:45, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

  A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.
 
  We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
  teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
  AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
  interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
  want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
  employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
  focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
  details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
  ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.
 
  Our top priorities:
 
  -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by
 supporting
  digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
  feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
  for just a minor update.
 
  -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
  over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
  quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
  panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
  compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
  especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.


I like what KOffice did with the management of tiles and panes, and I think
is a great UI study case. There were some of these ideas embedded in the UX
project. Personally I used to admire the UI from Macromedia projects which
had a nice use of toolbars, floating panes, and could add a series of
options in a clean icon-based intereface.


 
  -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer
 
  -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
  adoption of gestures.


Is this like for tablets? Not sure what gestures means, Opear has some
gestures which are mouse keys combinations.


 
  -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
  accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.
 
  -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
  experience.


I think there was always objections to bloat the office suite with too much
graphic intensive templates. Not sure if that opposition will be gone now.
Impress does need a major facelift with animations and transitions. GSOC
had integration bridge to OpenClipArt to import the clipart from the
website, this functionality is also present on Inkscape.



 
  -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
  and relevant.


Funny enough, stale is the new fresh, taken from logos of Chrome and
Windows, is more an art-deco style.


 
  -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
  thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
  Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
  as generic Share... actions.


eww I hate this and dont really understand why companies want to share a
document.


 
  -- And many other smaller items
 
  Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
  releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
  could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
  time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
  warrant a 4.0 designation.
 
  In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
  As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
  that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
  of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
  designing and implementing these features.
 
  Regards,
 
  -Rob
 
 
 
 




-- 
Alexandro Colorado
PPMC Apache OpenOffice
http://es.openoffice.org

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

I do not ignore qualified input !!

I will just have to find a way of making a right-nav bar, something that
Ariel did not provide (but still it was a very helpful job).

I will download and try to make the changes.

Jan.

On 1 November 2012 21:40, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 I committed this.  A did a little clean up.  The left nav wasn't
 handling the long email list addresses well (wasn't wrapping them) so
 I rewrote to user shorter names.

 It is starting to look good:  http://www.openoffice.org/l10n-new/

 Good work!

 My unsolicited feedback, which you are free to ignore, is that the
 news might go better on the right, as another column.  That way the
 links on the left are always at the top of their column, which seems
 more natural to me. That also gives space to have more than one news
 story without displacing navigation elements.

 -Rob

 On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:34 PM, jan iversen anonym...@apache.org wrote:
  Clone URL (Committers only):
 
 https://cms.apache.org/redirect?new=anonymous;action=diff;uri=http://ooo-site.apache.org/l10n-new%2Findex.mdtext
 
  jan iversen
 
  Index: trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext
  ===
  --- trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext (revision 1404729)
  +++ trunk/content/l10n-new/index.mdtext (working copy)
  @@ -30,21 +30,9 @@
   - [UI][2]
   - [Help][3]
 
  -## The site is undergoing a major overhaul!
 
  -We are working hard at a new workflow, that involves translators more
  -directly in the release process. This site plays a major role in the new
  -workflow, so please accept our apoligies for the state of the site.
  -All old content can be found under the menupoint archive.
 
  -## Questions or comments?
 
  -Contact us [ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org][4] or subscribe
  -[ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org][5].
  -
  -
   [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationalization_and_localization
   [2]: https://translate.apache.org/projects/OOo_34/
   [3]: https://translate.apache.org/projects/OOo_34_help/
  -[4]: mailto:ooo-l...@incubator.apache.org
  -[5]: mailto:ooo-l10n-subscr...@incubator.apache.org

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 4:53 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks for the note, however knowing IBM I had hoped that one of the
 official goals was to help the development part of the community to get
 stabilized.


This was specifically product goals for the next release, as the
subject title suggests.

Community development are ongoing, not tied to any particular release.
 And not tied to any one company, either.

It be worth if we (the AOO project) set our own community development
goals and worked toward  them?  Priorities and goals are a good thing,
I think.  They keep us focused, help us avoid distractions.  Well,
good goals, at least...

-Rob

 I acknowledge that it is important for IBM to get an output of invested
 energy/time/money, but I think IBM would benefit not only from features but
 also from the soft points of helping the community.

 that being said in response to your IBM HAT, but I do feel that you and
 other IBM Fellows still do a great job in getting  the community to prosper.

 Jan.

 On 1 November 2012 17:45, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.

 We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
 teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
 AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
 interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
 want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
 employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
 focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
 details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
 ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.

 Our top priorities:

 -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting
 digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
 feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
 for just a minor update.

 -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
 over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
 quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
 panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
 compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
 especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

 -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

 -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
 adoption of gestures.

 -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
 accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

 -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
 experience.

 -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
 and relevant.

 -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
 thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
 Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
 as generic Share... actions.

 -- And many other smaller items

 Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
 releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
 could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
 time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
 warrant a 4.0 designation.

 In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
 As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
 that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
 of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
 designing and implementing these features.

 Regards,

 -Rob

Re: extensions and translations.

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:07 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote:
 Can standard loosely be defined as an extension:
 - is developed by people who have signed ICLA
 - uses the apache license header in the source files
 - is of interest to the general public in different countries
 - is willing to let the source be controlled/reviewed by committer.
 - accept a vote by the committers to be accepted

 If those points are fuillfilled we could add the project to swext, and
 then it would automatically be integrated in the build and l10n process.

 Please help me out here, I am not sure if that is enough for the apache
 way.


There are probably two degrees of standard or official extensions.

1) An extension that is released with our binaries, e.g., it is
available out-of-the-box, either automatically installed, or
available as an option in the installer.

2) An extension that is developed and released by the project, and
published in the extension repository.

The process for these would be nearly identical, differing only on
whether it is released standalone or bundled with the full AOO
installer.

-Rob

 Jan.


 On 1 November 2012 21:24, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote:

 Am 11/01/2012 01:17 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:

  On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

 Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

 I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
 believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
 project).

 never mind.

 Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
 (that is
 how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a language
 file
 and get it translated as part of the language packs ?


 Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project and
 software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.

 However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit. When
 we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers will
 ask why not their extensions.


 It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
 ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy create
 a special section in our repo where we can host them.

 But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
 stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...



 +1

 I think the important thing is this:  We don't just want code.  We
 want communities.  So if an extension author thinks that their
 extension is generally useful and he/she wants to join the AOO
 community and work on the extension here, and allow others to work on
 it as well, then this is good.


 Of course, +1.


  We can have a set of standard extensions.


 So, we just need to define the standard.

 Marcus




  And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.

 But maybe others here have a great idea?


 we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-). But I
 can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.

 Juergen


  Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and
 help
 AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?

 Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.


 Yeah, maybe. ;-)

 Marcus



  On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de   wrote:

  Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:

While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a slight

 problem.

 Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.

 Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
 http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/
 http://www.**openoffice.org/extensions/http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/
 how
 does that get integrated into the
 translation process ?


 Simply, not at all.


As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our build
 --all

 --with-lang.


 Right.


If I am right that they are not part of the general translation,
 then is

 that per design so or should it be different ?


 Yes, this is by design.

 Extensions are offered to extent your AOO install at any point of
 time.
 These are developed by people that do not have to belong to our
 project
 (when we put aside some exceptions). They can act independently. And
 therefore they are allowed to (or have to ;-) ) do all on their own;
 incl.
 translation.

 That applies for all extensions and templates available on:

 -
 http://extensions.services.**o**penoffice.org http://openoffice.org
 http://**extensions.services.**openoffice.orghttp://extensions.services.openoffice.org
 

 -
 http://templates.services.**op**enoffice.org http://openoffice.org
 http://templates.**services.openoffice.orghttp://templates.services.openoffice.org
 



I might be following a wrong track here, but please forgive me for
 trying

 to make the l10n process as complete as I

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote:
 On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:53 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks for the note, however knowing IBM I had hoped that one of the
 official goals was to help the development part of the community to get
 stabilized.


 This is what their costumers asked for, not IBM itself. Costumers dont care
 about development, most of the time. They think everyting is created with
 Pixeldust.



 I acknowledge that it is important for IBM to get an output of invested
 energy/time/money, but I think IBM would benefit not only from features but
 also from the soft points of helping the community.


 I was a bit disapointed they didnt asked for some more 'enterprise-ready'
 features like integration with ERP systems, tivoli, and credential
 management of profiles, improve Base and add bridge to DB2 or something in
 those veins.


Some of these are being done, but as extensions.  And in some cases
they depend on proprietary code, so they lead to proprietary
extensions.  Personally, I'd recommend bring features like this into
the core only if they can be done in some open fashion, e.g.,
standards based or at least an open driver-based or other extensible
model which is open to all vendors.



 that being said in response to your IBM HAT, but I do feel that you and
 other IBM Fellows still do a great job in getting  the community to
 prosper.

 Jan.

 On 1 November 2012 17:45, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

  A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.
 
  We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
  teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
  AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
  interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
  want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
  employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
  focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
  details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
  ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.
 
  Our top priorities:
 
  -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by
 supporting
  digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
  feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
  for just a minor update.
 
  -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
  over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
  quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
  panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
  compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
  especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.


 I like what KOffice did with the management of tiles and panes, and I think
 is a great UI study case. There were some of these ideas embedded in the UX
 project. Personally I used to admire the UI from Macromedia projects which
 had a nice use of toolbars, floating panes, and could add a series of
 options in a clean icon-based intereface.


 
  -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer
 
  -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
  adoption of gestures.


 Is this like for tablets? Not sure what gestures means, Opear has some
 gestures which are mouse keys combinations.


For example, MacOS multi-touch gestures.  See:
http://www.apple.com/osx/what-is/gestures.html


 
  -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
  accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.
 
  -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
  experience.


 I think there was always objections to bloat the office suite with too much
 graphic intensive templates. Not sure if that opposition will be gone now.
 Impress does need a major facelift with animations and transitions. GSOC
 had integration bridge to OpenClipArt to import the clipart from the
 website, this functionality is also present on Inkscape.


I think better integration with external repositories is key.  Look at
what MS Office 2013 does.



 
  -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
  and relevant.


 Funny enough, stale is the new fresh, taken from logos of Chrome and
 Windows, is more an art-deco style.


Maybe if we wait long enough what we have now will come back in fashion? ;-)


 
  -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
  thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
  Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
  as generic Share... actions.


 eww I hate this and dont really understand why companies want to share a
 document.


Why do we share a news clipping or a status update or anything else?
If you can grab content from a

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

2012-11-01 Thread Ariel Constenla-Haile

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 10:11:05PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
 I do not ignore qualified input !!
 
 I will just have to find a way of making a right-nav bar, something that
 Ariel did not provide (but still it was a very helpful job).
 
 I will download and try to make the changes.

It's rather simple:

- add the right navigation MarkDown file in
  ooo-site/content/l10n-new/rightnav.mdtext it must have the header

  divid:rightnav


- instruct ooo-site/templates/l10n-new/ssi.mdtext to include it, adding
  a line like this:

  rightnav:/l10n-new/rightnav.html


Anyway I committed the changes right now :)
May be we can style the right bar to look like the news bar on the main
index.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


pgp4zk3I7OMwP.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

2012-11-01 Thread Kay Schenk




On 11/01/2012 09:45 AM, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.

We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.


Thanks for sharing this, and could you re-post the (IBM) wiki link. It's 
been a while since we looked at anything related to this, and I didn't 
save it.


Thanks.



Our top priorities:

-- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting
digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
for just a minor update.

-- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

-- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

-- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
adoption of gestures.

-- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

-- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
experience.

-- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
and relevant.

-- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
as generic Share... actions.

-- And many other smaller items

Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
warrant a 4.0 designation.

In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
designing and implementing these features.

Regards,

-Rob






--

MzK

Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never
 dealt with a cat.
   -- Robert Heinlein

Re: extensions and translations.

see below please.


On 1 November 2012 22:21, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:07 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Can standard loosely be defined as an extension:
  - is developed by people who have signed ICLA
  - uses the apache license header in the source files
  - is of interest to the general public in different countries
  - is willing to let the source be controlled/reviewed by committer.
  - accept a vote by the committers to be accepted
 
  If those points are fuillfilled we could add the project to swext, and
  then it would automatically be integrated in the build and l10n process.
 
  Please help me out here, I am not sure if that is enough for the apache
  way.
 

 There are probably two degrees of standard or official extensions.

 1) An extension that is released with our binaries, e.g., it is
 available out-of-the-box, either automatically installed, or
 available as an option in the installer.

That would be things like wiki publisher in swext, that still have the
sun license and not the apache license.

But that what actually what I was thinking about, and of course these
extension MUST be part of the apache demands.

We might include include in the setup package, but it should not be
automatically installed, if that was the case the end-user would see it as
an integrated part, and not an add-on. We should not take responsibility
for the extension, but simply offer it.


 2) An extension that is developed and released by the project, and
 published in the extension repository.

This is the current standard and should not be changed. the add on is
optional


 The process for these would be nearly identical, differing only on
 whether it is released standalone or bundled with the full AOO
 installer.

and not to forget, the possibility of getting the UI translated and
available all over the world.

Can we collect statistics about which extensions is installed how often ??


 -Rob

  Jan.
 
 
  On 1 November 2012 21:24, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote:
 
  Am 11/01/2012 01:17 PM, schrieb Rob Weir:
 
   On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 3:52 AM, Jürgen Schmidtjogischm...@gmail.com
   wrote:
 
  On 11/1/12 12:39 AM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 
  Am 10/27/2012 01:17 AM, schrieb jan iversen:
 
  I see, I have to get used to this license issues (a long time ago I
  believed open source was just open source, then I joined an apache
  project).
 
  never mind.
 
  Would it be to our advantage if we offered third party developers
  (that is
  how I see extension developers) the possibility to register a
 language
  file
  and get it translated as part of the language packs ?
 
 
  Of course it would be to our advantage; or let's say for the project
 and
  software. A lot of extensions would be available in many languages.
 
  However, I don't know where we should draw the line to set a limit.
 When
  we select here and there some extensions, then the other developers
 will
  ask why not their extensions.
 
 
  It's quite simple I would say, if people want develop extensions under
  ALv2 and want to contribute the code to the project. We can easy
 create
  a special section in our repo where we can host them.
 
  But this means they have to be handled in the same way as all other
  stuff here. Means a new release have to be voted...
 
 
 
  +1
 
  I think the important thing is this:  We don't just want code.  We
  want communities.  So if an extension author thinks that their
  extension is generally useful and he/she wants to join the AOO
  community and work on the extension here, and allow others to work on
  it as well, then this is good.
 
 
  Of course, +1.
 
 
   We can have a set of standard extensions.
 
 
  So, we just need to define the standard.
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
 
   And IMHO it's not possible to translate all strings for all extensions.
 
  But maybe others here have a great idea?
 
 
  we can't probably provide it and I think we have to do enough ;-).
 But I
  can think of an alternative service hosted somewhere else.
 
  Juergen
 
 
   Or should we just say extension developers does not concern us (and
  help
  AOO get more used) so we just look the other way ?
 
  Maybe the right way is somewhere in the middle.
 
 
  Yeah, maybe. ;-)
 
  Marcus
 
 
 
   On 27 October 2012 00:58, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de
 wrote:
 
   Am 10/27/2012 12:36 AM, schrieb jan iversen:
 
 While doing an update to the l10n workflow I think I found a
 slight
 
  problem.
 
  Extensions offers the capability to integrate/extend our UI.
 
  Assuming somebody writes an extension, and publishes it on
  http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/
 http://www.openoffice.org/**extensions/
  http://www.**openoffice.org/extensions/
 http://www.openoffice.org/extensions/
  how
  does that get integrated into the
  translation process ?
 
 
  Simply, not at all.
 
 
 As far as I can see the sources are not integrated into our
 build
  --all
 
  --with-lang.

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

THANKS, you are really super !!

Yes I would like the style of the the news bar, do we need to add a style
sheet.

I am flying a bit blindfolded here, being a contributor, not being able to
do the things myself, so thanks again for your help.

One question: When you commit to SVN, I think you also need to publish it.
but how come CMS is not updated...

jan.



On 1 November 2012 22:31, Ariel Constenla-Haile arie...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 10:11:05PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
  I do not ignore qualified input !!
 
  I will just have to find a way of making a right-nav bar, something that
  Ariel did not provide (but still it was a very helpful job).
 
  I will download and try to make the changes.

 It's rather simple:

 - add the right navigation MarkDown file in
   ooo-site/content/l10n-new/rightnav.mdtext it must have the header

   divid:rightnav


 - instruct ooo-site/templates/l10n-new/ssi.mdtext to include it, adding
   a line like this:

   rightnav:/l10n-new/rightnav.html


 Anyway I committed the changes right now :)
 May be we can style the right bar to look like the news bar on the main
 index.


 Regards
 --
 Ariel Constenla-Haile
 La Plata, Argentina

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

Can someone please publish rightnav (that ariel committed) so I can edit it
with cms.

thanks in advance.
Jan.


On 1 November 2012 22:31, Ariel Constenla-Haile arie...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 10:11:05PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
  I do not ignore qualified input !!
 
  I will just have to find a way of making a right-nav bar, something that
  Ariel did not provide (but still it was a very helpful job).
 
  I will download and try to make the changes.

 It's rather simple:

 - add the right navigation MarkDown file in
   ooo-site/content/l10n-new/rightnav.mdtext it must have the header

   divid:rightnav


 - instruct ooo-site/templates/l10n-new/ssi.mdtext to include it, adding
   a line like this:

   rightnav:/l10n-new/rightnav.html


 Anyway I committed the changes right now :)
 May be we can style the right bar to look like the news bar on the main
 index.


 Regards
 --
 Ariel Constenla-Haile
 La Plata, Argentina

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

2012-11-01 Thread Ariel Constenla-Haile

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 11:36:20PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:
 I would love to publish it myself, but I dont have the karma to do so (I am
 a contributor).
 
 I have updated CMS, no luck !

I published the site, please try again. Nevertheless, and AFAIK, even
when you log in as anonymous user your working copy can be updated, and
is not completely transient (I can't find the mail right now, but
anonymous working copies have a lifetime even if you logout).


 But looking at staging, did not do the complete trick (I cannot see
 rightnav), 

It's there http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/l10n-new/ and also on the
main site, since I published. But unpublished svn commmitts get
reflected on staging.


Regards
-- 
Ariel Constenla-Haile
La Plata, Argentina


pgp2QQVqgWOtf.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: CMS diff: Welcome to the localization (l10n) project

2012-11-01 Thread Juan C. Sanz


El 02/11/2012 0:03, Ariel Constenla-Haile escribió:

On Thu, Nov 01, 2012 at 11:36:20PM +0100, jan iversen wrote:

I would love to publish it myself, but I dont have the karma to do so (I am
a contributor).

I have updated CMS, no luck !

I published the site, please try again. Nevertheless, and AFAIK, even
when you log in as anonymous user your working copy can be updated, and
is not completely transient (I can't find the mail right now, but
anonymous working copies have a lifetime even if you logout).



But looking at staging, did not do the complete trick (I cannot see
rightnav),

It's there http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/l10n-new/ and also on the
main site, since I published. But unpublished svn commmitts get
reflected on staging.



But if you use the web browser CMS add-in on the staging you can´t see 
the new file (i suppose you see the published site)

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

2012-11-01 Thread Peter Junge


Great! Thanks for sharing.

Peter

On 11/2/2012 12:45 AM, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.

We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.

Our top priorities:

-- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting
digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
for just a minor update.

-- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

-- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

-- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
adoption of gestures.

-- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

-- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
experience.

-- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
and relevant.

-- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
as generic Share... actions.

-- And many other smaller items

Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
warrant a 4.0 designation.

In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
designing and implementing these features.

Regards,

-Rob

Re: AOO volunteers: essential skills and tasks

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@apache.org wrote:
 On 30/10/2012 Guy Waterval wrote:

 But for other people who will occasionally participate, why not a Post
 Office where they could register (for security reasons, acceptation of the
 license, etc.).
 When they have time, they can visit the Post Office to see the list of to
 do tasks, and they can download for instance a translation job.


 This has been a recurring request, a sort of web application acting as
 employment agency: matching skills and tasks. Done properly (and with an
 adequately smart user interface) it would indeed help in attracting new
 volunteers.


I wonder if something like this would work:
http://openhatch.org/search/?q=toughness=bitesizelanguage=Python

It looks like they can suck in appropriately flagged BZ issues.

-Rob


 It would need new tools since BugZilla does not offer an adequate interface
 and lacks the individual part (i.e., a self-assessed list of skills that
 will match the tasks). If somebody wants to draft some ideas on a wiki page,
 this is something that might be worth some effort on a medium term.

 Regards,
   Andrea.

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

2012-11-01 Thread Jorg Schmidt


 -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported 
 over from Symphony, and including an API.

 
I hope I understand correctly that you mean the right side in the picture
http://www.file-extensions.org/imgs/app-picture/4561/ibm-lotus-symphony.gif (OK,
this picture is symphony but the same in AOO). In the picture namend Text and
CellProperties. 

In this case, my question is:

Is there already a compiled test version for Windows?

(I do not necessarily mean a formal trial rather a snapshot, my personal problem
is only that I could not compile and therefore need a compiled version.)


Greetings,
Jorg

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

2012-11-01 Thread Graham Lauder

If I didn't know better I'd swear you had been spying on my wishlist. If
IBM brought nothing else to the project it's customer focus is hugely
valuable.  Many thanks Rob, one marketing guy very happy.
On 2/11/2012 8:52 AM, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:

 A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.

 We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM product
 teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the next
 AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
 interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.  But we
 want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
 employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
 focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting the
 details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear more at
 ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.

 Our top priorities:

 -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by supporting
 digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental update
 feature, so users are not required to download and install a full image
 for just a minor update.

 -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
 over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
 quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the sidebar
 panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
 compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen real-estate,
 especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.

 -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer

 -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including possible
 adoption of gestures.

 -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
 accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.

 -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
 experience.

 -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling, fresh
 and relevant.

 -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share their
 thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
 Explore the integration of consumer service-specific capabilities as well
 as generic Share... actions.

 -- And many other smaller items

 Obviously the release date for this cannot be pinned down so early, and
 releasing is PMC decision, not an IBM one.  But we think that this work
 could be completed and tested for a release in the March/April 2013
 time-frame.  And the scope of the release might be significant enough to
 warrant a 4.0 designation.

 In any case, we'll soon set up a page on the wiki to collect these items.
 As always, I invite you to add your own priorities to the wiki, things
 that you would like to work on.  This could be a new feature.  Or, if one
 of the above items sound interesting to you, we always welcome help
 designing and implementing these features.

 Regards,

 -Rob

Re: Have uploaded five nice presentation template

KG01 - see comments inline

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote:

 Andre, thanks for your feedback.

 Yes, agreed. The current templates in AOO looks a little out of date. It is
 the time that we explore more new templates to make the templates nice and
 good for use.

 We have more nice design, I will continue to publish more.

 2012/11/2 Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com

  On 01.11.2012 10:00, Xin Li wrote:
   Hi，
  
   I have uploaded five nice presentation template. Welcome to have a try
  and
   give me some feedback.  Thanks.
  
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8966
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8968
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8970
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8972
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8974
 
  I like them all.
  It really gets time to clean up the set of AOO templates, drop the ugly
  ones (not sure how many would remain) and replace them by prettier ones
  like yours.


KG01 - +1

We should perform an assessment of all the templates to see which ones are
still relevant and which are dated. For example, perhaps we could introduce
templates to help people create wireframes for mobile devices?

In addition, we should seek ways to make the templates more discoverable.
Perhaps we could introduce tags to the template ecosystem? For example:
business, formal, cool_colours

This opportunity for improvement has been captured in the UX Opportunity
Backloghttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_-_Opportunity_Backlog.
Let's start to explore possible design directions.

Regards,
Kevin




 
  -Andre
 
 --
 Best regards,
 Xin Li   李欣
 UX designer

Re: AOO.Next IBM Priorities

KG01 - see comment inline

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 5:28 AM, Rob Weir robw...@apache.org wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@oooes.org wrote:
  On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 2:53 PM, jan iversen jancasacon...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Thanks for the note, however knowing IBM I had hoped that one of the
  official goals was to help the development part of the community to get
  stabilized.
 
 
  This is what their costumers asked for, not IBM itself. Costumers dont
 care
  about development, most of the time. They think everyting is created with
  Pixeldust.
 
 
 
  I acknowledge that it is important for IBM to get an output of invested
  energy/time/money, but I think IBM would benefit not only from features
 but
  also from the soft points of helping the community.
 
 
  I was a bit disapointed they didnt asked for some more 'enterprise-ready'
  features like integration with ERP systems, tivoli, and credential
  management of profiles, improve Base and add bridge to DB2 or something
 in
  those veins.
 

 Some of these are being done, but as extensions.  And in some cases
 they depend on proprietary code, so they lead to proprietary
 extensions.  Personally, I'd recommend bring features like this into
 the core only if they can be done in some open fashion, e.g.,
 standards based or at least an open driver-based or other extensible
 model which is open to all vendors.

 
 
  that being said in response to your IBM HAT, but I do feel that you and
  other IBM Fellows still do a great job in getting  the community to
  prosper.
 
  Jan.
 
  On 1 November 2012 17:45, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:
 
   A quick note, wearing my IBM hat.
  
   We (IBM) have consulted with customers, internal users, other IBM
 product
   teams, on what our (IBM's) development priorities should be for the
 next
   AOO release.  Obviously, we're not the only ones with priorities or
   interests or opinions.  We don't make AOO decisions by ourselves.
  But we
   want to be transparent about what our own priorities are, for our
   employees participating in the AOO community, and what they will be
   focusing on.   As we did with AOO 3.4.0 and 3.4.1, we'll be putting
 the
   details onto the wiki over the next couple of weeks.  You'll hear
 more at
   ApacheCon, but I wanted you to hear it hear first.
  
   Our top priorities:
  
   -- Improve the install and deployment experience, especially by
  supporting
   digital signatures on installs, and introducing a new incremental
 update
   feature, so users are not required to download and install a full
 image
   for just a minor update.
  
   -- A major UI enhancement, a sidebar framework for the editors, ported
   over from Symphony, and including an API.  If you recall, Symphony won
   quite a lot of praise for its UI, and much of this was due to the
 sidebar
   panel.  I think we can make a good argument that this approach, say
   compared to the MS Office ribbon is a better use of screen
 real-estate,
   especially as we see more frequent use of wide screen displays.
 
 
  I like what KOffice did with the management of tiles and panes, and I
 think
  is a great UI study case. There were some of these ideas embedded in the
 UX
  project. Personally I used to admire the UI from Macromedia projects
 which
  had a nice use of toolbars, floating panes, and could add a series of
  options in a clean icon-based intereface.
 
 
  
   -- Improved Table of Contents in Writer
  
   -- Improved system integration on Windows and MacOS, including
 possible
   adoption of gestures.
 
 
  Is this like for tablets? Not sure what gestures means, Opear has some
  gestures which are mouse keys combinations.
 

 For example, MacOS multi-touch gestures.  See:
 http://www.apple.com/osx/what-is/gestures.html

 
  
   -- IAccessible2 bridge, ported over from Symphony, to improve
   accessibility.  This is a major effort, but very important.
  
   -- Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
   experience.
 
 
  I think there was always objections to bloat the office suite with too
 much
  graphic intensive templates. Not sure if that opposition will be gone
 now.
  Impress does need a major facelift with animations and transitions. GSOC
  had integration bridge to OpenClipArt to import the clipart from the
  website, this functionality is also present on Inkscape.
 

 I think better integration with external repositories is key.  Look at
 what MS Office 2013 does.

 
 
  
   -- Update branding and visual styling, contemporary and compelling,
 fresh
   and relevant.
 
 
  Funny enough, stale is the new fresh, taken from logos of Chrome and
  Windows, is more an art-deco style.
 

 Maybe if we wait long enough what we have now will come back in fashion?
 ;-)

 
  
   -- Social integration, allow our users to quickly and easily share
 their
   thoughts in a way that compliment their commercial social behavior.
   Explore the integration of consumer service-specific

Re: Have uploaded five nice presentation template

Some comments from another post to consider when exploring clipart and
template enhancements.


Closer integration of clipart and template libraries with user
  experience.


 I think there was always objections to bloat the office suite with too
much
 graphic intensive templates. Not sure if that opposition will be gone now.
 Impress does need a major facelift with animations and transitions. GSOC
 had integration bridge to OpenClipArt to import the clipart from the
 website, this functionality is also present on Inkscape.


I think better integration with external repositories is key.  Look at
what MS Office 2013 does.






On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Kevin Grignon kevingrignon...@gmail.comwrote:

 KG01 - see comments inline

 On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 11:15 AM, Xin Li lxnice...@gmail.com wrote:

 Andre, thanks for your feedback.

 Yes, agreed. The current templates in AOO looks a little out of date. It
 is
 the time that we explore more new templates to make the templates nice and
 good for use.

 We have more nice design, I will continue to publish more.

 2012/11/2 Andre Fischer awf@gmail.com

  On 01.11.2012 10:00, Xin Li wrote:
   Hi，
  
   I have uploaded five nice presentation template. Welcome to have a try
  and
   give me some feedback.  Thanks.
  
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8966
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8968
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8970
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8972
   http://templates.services.openoffice.org/en/node/8974
 
  I like them all.
  It really gets time to clean up the set of AOO templates, drop the ugly
  ones (not sure how many would remain) and replace them by prettier ones
  like yours.


 KG01 - +1

 We should perform an assessment of all the templates to see which ones are
 still relevant and which are dated. For example, perhaps we could introduce
 templates to help people create wireframes for mobile devices?

 In addition, we should seek ways to make the templates more discoverable.
 Perhaps we could introduce tags to the template ecosystem? For example:
 business, formal, cool_colours

 This opportunity for improvement has been captured in the UX Opportunity
 Backloghttp://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/AOO_UX_Design_-_Opportunity_Backlog.
 Let's start to explore possible design directions.

 Regards,
 Kevin




 
  -Andre
 
 --
 Best regards,
 Xin Li   李欣
 UX designer

Re: [UX] - Design Exploration - Dockable Task Pane (Sidebar) - Tab User Interface Design