RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
I thought that there was a way via schema level triggers? I vaguely remember discussion on this last year -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM Hey, how do you give that truncate only privilege -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Sorry to disappoint you all. I gave him the password so he can connect as the owner and then he can do truncate. I scanned the list later and found the discussion on the subject and I am going to replace that with a procedure that he will be granted execute. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 2:38 PM I thought that there was a way via schema level triggers? I vaguely remember discussion on this last year -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of Kimberly Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 10:28 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM Hey, how do you give that truncate only privilege -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Yechiel, here is additional information: white paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm WEBCAMS (4-6 mins) and screenshots: ActiveChangeManager: http://www.iraje.com/ActiveChangeManager_viewlet.html http://www.iraje.com/acommanbig.htm ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html http://www.iraje.com/acomparebig.htm ActiveDesigner: http://www.iraje.com/ActiveDesigner_viewlet.html http://www.iraje.com/adbig.htm Active+: http://www.iraje.com/active_main.htm Keith Date: Sun, 05 May 2002 03:48:18 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Well , just to keep things jumping. Last week I deviated from our rule and gave a responsible user that needed truncate on tables the password for the owner of the schema. Guess what? Today he comes to me to recreate 2 tables that he dropped. Go figure. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:53 PM Yechiel, Yes, I have been there, done that, over and over... But then, there is a Toyota Corolla solution and maybe a Ferrari Testarosa solution. If we can control Dom Phoc without tieing his hands behind the back, wouldn't that would be the best: white paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Yechiel, How did you give a responsible person the ability to truncate a table without granting delete any table. Very dangerious. There was a long dicsussion on the list a while ago that displayed the dangers of such a grant. I think it was followed up with an update your resume statement. Ron ROR mª¿ªm -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Well , just to keep things jumping. Last week I deviated from our rule and gave a responsible user that needed truncate on tables the password for the owner of the schema. Guess what? Today he comes to me to recreate 2 tables that he dropped. Go figure. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:53 PM Yechiel, Yes, I have been there, done that, over and over... But then, there is a Toyota Corolla solution and maybe a Ferrari Testarosa solution. If we can control Dom Phoc without tieing his hands behind the back, wouldn't that would be the best: white paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Keith Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:48:38 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Well Keith Our solution to the Doom Phoc (and their siblings) is: Do not grant they rights to do any DDL either in test nor in prod. The dab stuff does all the DDL work. Sure it is an added chore, but after tracking down, a few times, tables that were dropped inadvertently by users (their tool did it by itself) we now use the following policy: Every application has two user id's: Owner, with password known only to the DBA group. User with rights for select, insert, update, delete ONLY. It works. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:54 PM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Sorry Yeichel... I had to laugh! I've been on both sides of this situation. I hope you showed him where his a$$ is for the next time he can't find it with his own two hands. :) and developers wonder why they have been termed duh-veloper and Dom Phoc. That's why every time someone gets upset with me and wants the schema password, I say something to the effect of It's my job to recover it if something goes wrong. I don't have 24 hours to complete the recovery, and neither do you. No Freaking Way, Mr. CIO. (this has actually happened, it turned into quite an unpleasant discussion). Fire me if you want to. It's a lovely spring morning in Florida and there is a mockingbird serenading me.. Wow. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Monkey Mama Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Yechiel Adar [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2002 7:48 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM Well , just to keep things jumping. Last week I deviated from our rule and gave a responsible user that needed truncate on tables the password for the owner of the schema. Guess what? Today he comes to me to recreate 2 tables that he dropped. Go figure. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:53 PM Yechiel, Yes, I have been there, done that, over and over... But then, there is a Toyota Corolla solution and maybe a Ferrari Testarosa solution. If we can control Dom Phoc without tieing his hands behind the back, wouldn't that would be the best: white paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Keith Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:48:38 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Well Keith Our solution to the Doom Phoc (and their siblings) is: Do not grant they rights to do any DDL either in test nor in prod. The dab stuff does all the DDL work. Sure it is an added chore, but after tracking down, a few times, tables that were dropped inadvertently by users (their tool did it by itself) we now use the following policy: Every application has two user id's: Owner, with password known only to the DBA group. User with rights for select, insert, update, delete ONLY. It works. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:54 PM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Keith, Just curious, do you have any affiliation with Iraje or are you just a big fan of their products? Sure have been a lot of postings from you this past week on this list, and other Oracle related lists, touting their products ;-) Sounds like you really like their tools. Just wondering if we have another sales critter on board ;-) Regards, Larry G. Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] 214.954.1781 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Keith Peterson Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 10:54 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM Yechiel, Yes, I have been there, done that, over and over... But then, there is a Toyota Corolla solution and maybe a Ferrari Testarosa solution. If we can control Dom Phoc without tieing his hands behind the back, wouldn't that would be the best: white paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Keith Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:48:38 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Well Keith Our solution to the Doom Phoc (and their siblings) is: Do not grant they rights to do any DDL either in test nor in prod. The dab stuff does all the DDL work. Sure it is an added chore, but after tracking down, a few times, tables that were dropped inadvertently by users (their tool did it by itself) we now use the following policy: Every application has two user id's: Owner, with password known only to the DBA group. User with rights for select, insert, update, delete ONLY. It works. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:54 PM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Yechiel, Yes, I have been there, done that, over and over... But then, there is a Toyota Corolla solution and maybe a Ferrari Testarosa solution. If we can control Dom Phoc without tieing his hands behind the back, wouldn't that would be the best: white paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Keith Date: Thu, 02 May 2002 11:48:38 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California Well Keith Our solution to the Doom Phoc (and their siblings) is: Do not grant they rights to do any DDL either in test nor in prod. The dab stuff does all the DDL work. Sure it is an added chore, but after tracking down, a few times, tables that were dropped inadvertently by users (their tool did it by itself) we now use the following policy: Every application has two user id's: Owner, with password known only to the DBA group. User with rights for select, insert, update, delete ONLY. It works. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:54 PM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons
Why? For consistnecy. I am in charge of making ALL changes to the data model, then rolling out those changes to the db. Our developers RELY on me and my tools for a database that reflects the model that we developed (Without Error). Therefore, everything we do here STARTS with the model (dreamy, huh?). And the developers agree with this as we can get literally hundreds of changes (this has calmed down now that we have our first release), and this is the best way in our case to manage it (one point of change). Now, I had been seeing some *weird* stuff creep into the model (inconsistencies, datatypes not being consistent from the logical to physical model etc). So, I spent some time going throught the entire model *fixing* the little stuff and syncing the logical and physical models. I ran a bunch of reports to looks at it (and got some of the wierdness that I mentioned previously like pk cloumn showing up a NULLABLE...etc). So, as a further TEST, I rolled out the model using the scripts generated by ERWin and just for the Heck of it, decided to do the compare and it failed. NO ONE was mucking with the database. But compares from model to db are useful for syncing the db IF something like that should happen. Think of it this way, copying a file in an editor (take Word for example). You may not NEED that extra file, but you would be completely WIGGED out if your copy was NOT the same as the original. Which was my point of doing it in the first - to test ERWin. It failed. Hannah -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
I dont mind the PK thing, I prefer it that way, but it also inconsistently places migrated foreign keys on the bottom (this is just mdoeling, no reverse engineering). This is just a slight pain for us as we have a bunch of auditing fields that I like to be last for readability. Sometimes I can move them, soemtimes I can't. Hannah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of Koivu, Lisa [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
Moving the columns should not be a problem for anyone, heck you should be able to alphabetize them and everything be okay. If you take the output and use it to create tables that should not cause a problem except for the developer that codes for columns to appear in a specific order. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/02 06:56PM No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... * -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
As I remember (since I'm no longer using ERWin since CA's takeover) there is a Physical Order box somewhere than needs to be clicked. If you do this, ERWin will use the actual physical order of the table, otherwise it will put them in another order (I think that it's primary key, foreign keys, and then alphabetical). The latest version of ERWin just isn't bug free enough for me to use as a primary tool --- so I'm using nothing. If I can't trust a tool then I can't use it. Grabowy, Chris To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L cgrabowy[EMAIL PROTECTED] @fcg.comcc: Sent by: rootSubject: RE: ERD generation tool 05/01/2002 06:56 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re
Re: ERD generation tool
Hello Ron shameless plug I was just looking at Joe new oracle 9i features at http://www.oracle-dba.com end shameless plug I saw that log miner gives you something like: update SCOTT.TEST_LOG set C2 = '10' What happens if you extract this info and erd tool moved a column? Inquiring minds wants to know Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:58 PM Moving the columns should not be a problem for anyone, heck you should be able to alphabetize them and everything be okay. If you take the output and use it to create tables that should not cause a problem except for the developer that codes for columns to appear in a specific order. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/02 06:56PM No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... * -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
Yes. Your suggestion is correct. After you run Reverse Engineer to get the table diagram from database, right click the blank area. Small windows show up and select Stored Display Settings, select Physical tab, select Physical Order in Display Level and PK Designator. The diagram will be refreshed. The sequence is same as database. If you use Forward Engineer to generate sql script later on, the DDL is same as database structure. Thanks for all of your help. Paul -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As I remember (since I'm no longer using ERWin since CA's takeover) there is a Physical Order box somewhere than needs to be clicked. If you do this, ERWin will use the actual physical order of the table, otherwise it will put them in another order (I think that it's primary key, foreign keys, and then alphabetical). The latest version of ERWin just isn't bug free enough for me to use as a primary tool --- so I'm using nothing. If I can't trust a tool then I can't use it. Grabowy, Chris To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L cgrabowy[EMAIL PROTECTED] @fcg.comcc: Sent by: rootSubject: RE: ERD generation tool 05/01/2002 06:56 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us
RE: ERD generation tool
Yes, I always have that box checked. I still get an mixed order columns when I gen the DDL. Yes, 4.0 sucks. One of the projects here actually purchased 4.0, but then had to fall back to 3.5.2, because of the bugs. Let's all thank CA for taking another fine product and destroying it. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As I remember (since I'm no longer using ERWin since CA's takeover) there is a Physical Order box somewhere than needs to be clicked. If you do this, ERWin will use the actual physical order of the table, otherwise it will put them in another order (I think that it's primary key, foreign keys, and then alphabetical). The latest version of ERWin just isn't bug free enough for me to use as a primary tool --- so I'm using nothing. If I can't trust a tool then I can't use it. Grabowy, Chris To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L cgrabowy[EMAIL PROTECTED] @fcg.comcc: Sent by: rootSubject: RE: ERD generation tool 05/01/2002 06:56 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Thanks Keith, I'll check it out. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Baby Oven Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 1:55 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject:RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Koivu, Lisa INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool
-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool
Ron wrote: Did you use the changed ERD to create a table and then use old archives to mine the data changes? NO. I did not started to work with log miner yet. I just saw the article that Joe published and thought about this point. I have enough experience to know that you can not teach old data new tricks (or new structure). Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 8:48 PM Yechiel, In the instance that you refer to it could present a problem if you use the changed table description to build a different instance and then used the mined info to update the table in the new instance. This would be a case where the source and target databases are not the same and then I don't think that any form of data replication should be blindly trusted. Remember, the OS, and database have to match to work properly. It is a good point that you brought out and it should be a warning to make sure the source and target are the same. Another item that could be overlooked in this case is father time. Did you use the changed ERD to create a table and then use old archives to mine the data changes?. It goes along with the changing of a column on a table and then trying to use old data to updates it or perform a calculation on it. There could be problems. That is why we document everything we do to the data. It gives us a reference to a point in time we can restore to if we need it. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/02 01:23PM Hello Ron shameless plug I was just looking at Joe new oracle 9i features at http://www.oracle-dba.com end shameless plug I saw that log miner gives you something like: update SCOTT.TEST_LOG set C2 = '10' What happens if you extract this info and erd tool moved a column? Inquiring minds wants to know Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:58 PM Moving the columns should not be a problem for anyone, heck you should be able to alphabetize them and everything be okay. If you take the output and use it to create tables that should not cause a problem except for the developer that codes for columns to appear in a specific order. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/02 06:56PM No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... * -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to:
RE: ERD generation tool
You don't say. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 2:38 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Well Keith Our solution to the Doom Phoc (and their siblings) is: Do not grant they rights to do any DDL either in test nor in prod. The dab stuff does all the DDL work. Sure it is an added chore, but after tracking down, a few times, tables that were dropped inadvertently by users (their tool did it by itself) we now use the following policy: Every application has two user id's: Owner, with password known only to the DBA group. User with rights for select, insert, update, delete ONLY. It works. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:54 PM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool - Active SCM
Yes, what you describe does work. However, when the person you don't trust is another DBA (Can we think of another name considering this guy is a DBA? Doom Big Ash-Hole?), it's another story. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Yechiel Adar [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:49 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: Re: ERD generation tool - Active SCM Well Keith Our solution to the Doom Phoc (and their siblings) is: Do not grant they rights to do any DDL either in test nor in prod. The dab stuff does all the DDL work. Sure it is an added chore, but after tracking down, a few times, tables that were dropped inadvertently by users (their tool did it by itself) we now use the following policy: Every application has two user id's: Owner, with password known only to the DBA group. User with rights for select, insert, update, delete ONLY. It works. Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 7:54 PM Lisa, There is only so much you can control via a model, since it remains a process away from the DB, and cannot be enforced via privileges, etc. So, we are always in the hands of Dom Phoc (and their siblings), who can do stuff even in the production database with SQLPLus/TOAD/... Under this schenario, do you sleep well at night? So, we said lets work with our Dom Phoc's. On production databases, we will STRIP them off of the Oracle database passwords. No password, no change. ENFORCED! Now, I can sleep well at night. How? Not via models. Via a solution involving the following, and it seems to be working for us well: ActiveDesigner/ActiveChangeManager/ActiveCompare/A+ White Paper: http://www.iraje.com/docs/ActiveSecureDesigner.htm Take charge of the Dom Phocs in your org! Keith To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED], '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 1 May 2002 16:06:00 -0500 Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellness http://health.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL
Re: ERD generation tool
Yechiel, In the instance that you refer to it could present a problem if you use the changed table description to build a different instance and then used the mined info to update the table in the new instance. This would be a case where the source and target databases are not the same and then I don't think that any form of data replication should be blindly trusted. Remember, the OS, and database have to match to work properly. It is a good point that you brought out and it should be a warning to make sure the source and target are the same. Another item that could be overlooked in this case is father time. Did you use the changed ERD to create a table and then use old archives to mine the data changes?. It goes along with the changing of a column on a table and then trying to use old data to updates it or perform a calculation on it. There could be problems. That is why we document everything we do to the data. It gives us a reference to a point in time we can restore to if we need it. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/02/02 01:23PM Hello Ron shameless plug I was just looking at Joe new oracle 9i features at http://www.oracle-dba.com end shameless plug I saw that log miner gives you something like: update SCOTT.TEST_LOG set C2 = '10' What happens if you extract this info and erd tool moved a column? Inquiring minds wants to know Yechiel Adar Mehish - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 3:58 PM Moving the columns should not be a problem for anyone, heck you should be able to alphabetize them and everything be okay. If you take the output and use it to create tables that should not cause a problem except for the developer that codes for columns to appear in a specific order. Ron ROR mª¿ªm [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/01/02 06:56PM No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... * -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Yechiel Adar INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ron Rogers INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
All bugs that I am experiencing are in 3.5.2. A lot of the problems with ERwin are not CA's fault. And trust me, I have no respect for CA. -Original Message- Chris Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 11:09 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Yes, I always have that box checked. I still get an mixed order columns when I gen the DDL. Yes, 4.0 sucks. One of the projects here actually purchased 4.0, but then had to fall back to 3.5.2, because of the bugs. Let's all thank CA for taking another fine product and destroying it. -Original Message- Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:45 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L As I remember (since I'm no longer using ERWin since CA's takeover) there is a Physical Order box somewhere than needs to be clicked. If you do this, ERWin will use the actual physical order of the table, otherwise it will put them in another order (I think that it's primary key, foreign keys, and then alphabetical). The latest version of ERWin just isn't bug free enough for me to use as a primary tool --- so I'm using nothing. If I can't trust a tool then I can't use it. Grabowy, Chris To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L cgrabowy[EMAIL PROTECTED] @fcg.comcc: Sent by: rootSubject: RE: ERD generation tool 05/01/2002 06:56 PM Please respond to ORACLE-L No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our
RE: ERD generation tool
ERWin and ERStudio are basically in the 3,000 to 4,000 price range, depending on what add-ons you take and yearly maintenance license. When I reviewed them in 2001Q4, ERStudio was the only one that had a network option. In other words, you can install the software on every PC in the company but only X amount of users can use it at the same time. So that has some appeal, if you have a lot of people that need to be able to use the software but not at the exact same time. Sort of like MTS...:) Quest's QDesigner was probably the least user friendly, but it has some slick capabilties. For example, if the current version doesn't support a new Oracle index type, then it's no problem, since you can edit the SQL template that is used to create a particular index. ERStudio was easy to use, and seemed to be well developed. The sales guy went over my head when he didn't think he was going to make the sale. Regardless, we have no budget so nothing was purchased. ERwin 4.0 was a disappointment. It seems like they polished up 3.5.2 and added a new reporting capability, and that took them several years. Let's all thank CA for not much. Besides the sales guy was a total jerk. -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:39 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L any idea on the pricing for these tools? I dont see a price on any of these sites. Ray Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : RE: ERD generation tool Date : Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:03:36 -0800 ERWin www.ca.com ERStudio www.embarcadero.com Active Designer http://www.iraje.com/ad_fsmain.htm HTH Mark -Original Message- Sean Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Gordon INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Grabowy, Chris INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool
I've used the release of Embarcadero's ERSudio that was new about two months ago. It is OK if you really just want to do modeling and have relatively low expectations for some of hte more advanced capabilities of such tools. If does a decent job with diagrams and its rather simple standard reports, but it does not do a lot of things you might want. * It is completely ignorant of packages. It will reverse engineer and let you create procedures, and functions, but has no concept of a package. If you reverse engineer all the code from a schema, you will get all the components, but not within the context of their packages. * It has this very annoying habit of putting extraneous comments on all store code. It adds a comment that looks something like: -- -- WARNING! Do not delete this line! - for each begin or end in every PL/SQL routine - for no rational reason whatsoever! * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other tools, don't give them any documentation other than the online help, but start it up and connect it to a database before you turn it over). It could be days, perhaps weeks! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 12:48 PM ERWin and ERStudio are basically in the 3,000 to 4,000 price range, depending on what add-ons you take and yearly maintenance license. When I reviewed them in 2001Q4, ERStudio was the only one that had a network option. In other words, you can install the software on every PC in the company but only X amount of users can use it at the same time. So that has some appeal, if you have a lot of people that need to be able to use the software but not at the exact same time. Sort of like MTS...:) Quest's QDesigner was probably the least user friendly, but it has some slick capabilties. For example, if the current version doesn't support a new Oracle index type, then it's no problem, since you can edit the SQL template that is used to create a particular index. ERStudio was easy to use, and seemed to be well developed. The sales guy went over my head when he didn't think he was going to make the sale. Regardless, we have no budget so nothing was purchased. ERwin 4.0 was a disappointment. It seems like they polished up 3.5.2 and added a new reporting capability, and that took them several years. Let's all thank CA for not much. Besides the sales guy was a total jerk. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Don Granaman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model. I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other tools, don't give them any documentation other than the online help, but start it up and connect it to a database before you turn it over). It could be days, perhaps weeks! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons
Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:00:31 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to Address Book Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other tools, don't give them any documentation other than the online help, but start it up and connect it to a database before you turn it over). It could be days, perhaps weeks! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY,
RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons
Well, for one thing, if your developer, Dom Phoc, starts changing crap in your database (as has happened to me in the past) a compare to the dev model would be great because my development changes would be in the model, not in the test or production databases. In that specific case I had to TRUST him (what? trust him after what he just did?) to change everything back, or restore from a backup, which would have been very time consuming. I was one large ball of raging hormones that day and I took it all out on him. We don't work on the same projects anymore. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Keith Peterson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:50 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool - Active Comparisons Am I speaking to the wind For Compares, why would you compare the MODEL with the DATABASE...like going from US to London via Tokyo... ... and you get to pay more, like... you pay not for distance, but for time in the air... If a tool takes longer to do something, makes more mistakes, is bumpy and complex... you get to pay more. For compares, someone tell me what beats ActiveCompare: http://www.iraje.com/compare-diff.htm http://www.iraje.com/ActiveCompare_viewlet.html ...and I will switch my tool. Keith Date: Wed, 01 May 2002 13:00:31 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] to Address Book Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's
RE: ERD generation tool
ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other tools, don't give them any documentation other than the online help, but start it up and connect it to a database before you turn it over). It could be days, perhaps weeks! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). *** This electronic mail transmission contains confidential and/or privileged information intended only for the person(s) named. Any use, distribution, copying or disclosure by another person is strictly prohibited. *** -- Please see the
RE: ERD generation tool
I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other tools, don't give them any documentation other than the online help, but start it up and connect it to a database before you turn it over). It could be days, perhaps weeks! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California
RE: ERD generation tool
No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other
RE: ERD generation tool
What version of ERWin are you using? Are you using ModelMart as well? -Original Message- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse interface. Simply sit someone that is familiar with modeling, but unfamiliar with Designer, down in front of the GUI and see how long it takes them to generate a readable ER diagram! (To make this fair, compared to other tools, don't give them any documentation other than the online help, but start it up and connect it to a database before you turn it over). It could be days, perhaps weeks! Don Granaman [OraSaurus] -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Kimberly Smith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).
RE: ERD generation tool
It is a bug. We are currently in the middle of trying to get a patch out of CA. They presented us with one but it did not solve the problem. -Original Message- Chris Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 3:56 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L No, no Paul is stating it as a bug. This has happend to me, where on occasion ERwin decides to move columns around for no reason when it creates the table in the database. I have looked at every single option and I can't find anything, so I am assuming it's a bug. But if anyone knows otherwise...please do share... -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:32 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I have seen it create two columns with the exact same name in a table. It did this by putting double quotes around the column it was adding (that actually already existed.) What's so bad about moving the pk fields to the top? Why would you put them in the middle of the table? I think having pk at the top is more readable, and it assists with more optimal storage at a very low level. Lisa Koivu Oracle Database Administrator Fairfield Resorts, Inc. 5259 Coconut Creek Parkway Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA 33063 -Original Message- From: Paul Li [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 6:17 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: RE: ERD generation tool ERWin change the column sequences when using Reverse Engineering to generate diagram. It puts all of primary key columns on the top. But, actually some primary key columns are in the middle of table. That is really bad. Does anybody see the same problem? -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 5:01 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin's not much better. Has some better modeling capability as you might guess, but has some VERY annoying quirks too. You also need to drill down endlessly when doing a compare and I have seen it see two exact tables (even case being the same) and see them as different. The DO have a MATCH button that I would SUPPOSE allows you to re-align them, but I would not know for sure as I get Dr. Watson's whenever I press it and the whole thing crashes! I had a nice BUG last week only. Generated scripts for the model, ran them on the db, then ran a compare from the model to the db. Darn thing came up with differences Furthermore, I find that if you work from the Logical Model (like I do), the changes are not equally presented to the physical model (ie name change./datatype change) and its NOT consistent with this behavior either! It has a report builder, but it doesn't report on datatypes entered on the Logical side (even though the datatype on the physical MAY be different) = therefore you can't run any consistency reports between the Logical and Physical models. I have been using ERWin both as a modeling tool and a change repository for the model.I like to run several reports against a model (I call them the Sanity Checks Reports) you know, make sure that all columns named the same (ie DESCRIPTION) are of the same datatype, length, etc. Anyhow, I can rant and rant. ERWin's BIGGEST Annoyance is my book is that there is no UNDO feature and it is rather easy to accidentally drop and drag either a relationship or field when re-aligning the model.. ugh I wish we could get together a group and benchmark some relatively unknown but stable modeling tool who's maker will listen to the DBA community and put their name in the market (IE. give them market share) in exchange for giving our community a tool that would actually work for us and work well! Rant over now. Please continue... * It cannot handle obejcts (CLOBs, BLOBs, ...) that are not stored inline. If you place CLOBs in a different tablesapce form the rest of the row, you will have to manually manipulate the DDL. * It has no schema-schema comparision capabilities, only schema-model. * Examining the results of schema-model comparision is extremely awkward, time consuming, and aggravating. One has to continually drill down in a miniscule window using the Windows Explorer type interface to see anything meaningful. There are some other significant deficiencies also. I talked to them about all these and more. What I got was the same answer that I got two years ago also. We'll put it on the enhancement request list. or We've been intending to do that. Personally, I think that packages have been around long enough that a multi-thousand dollar per seat tool should be able to handle them by now! Unfortunately, I don't know of any great modeling tool right now. Designer does everything, but definitely has some quirks. If you use another RDBS, it probably won't handle it well. In addition, it wants to do things its own way, not your way. Some also say it has the world's most obtuse
RE: ERD generation tool
Title: RE: ERD generation tool When I was in an NT shop, we used Visio (I know...I know), but given that I was not architecting at the time, I can't compare with the Erwin that I am using now. I remember at the time though, the ERDs created using Visio were accurate for what we were doing (just documenting DBs). Its CHEAP compared to the *real* tools, like ERWin and will generate ERDs from several sources. Hannah -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]@SUNGARD On Behalf Of O'Neill, Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 8:24 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Subject: ERD generation tool Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool
Both Designer and ERwin can reverse engineer enough information from an existing database to generate an ERD. Cherie Machler Oracle DBA Gelco Information Network O'Neill, SeanTo: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sean.ONeill@o cc: rganon.ie Subject: ERD generation tool Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] om 04/30/02 07:24 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] This message, including attached files, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the use by the individual and/or the entity to which it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of, or copying of the information contained herein is not allowed and may lead to irreparable harm and damage for which you may be held liable. If you receive this message in error or if it is intended for someone else please notify the sender by returning this e-mail immediately and delete the message. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: O'Neill, Sean INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool
Yes, there is ERWin. You load the sql*plus scripts into it and it will then re-engineer the diagrams. Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:24 AM Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] This message, including attached files, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the use by the individual and/or the entity to which it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of, or copying of the information contained herein is not allowed and may lead to irreparable harm and damage for which you may be held liable. If you receive this message in error or if it is intended for someone else please notify the sender by returning this e-mail immediately and delete the message. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: O'Neill, Sean INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
ERWin www.ca.com ERStudio www.embarcadero.com Active Designer http://www.iraje.com/ad_fsmain.htm HTH Mark -Original Message- Sean Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] This message, including attached files, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the use by the individual and/or the entity to which it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of, or copying of the information contained herein is not allowed and may lead to irreparable harm and damage for which you may be held liable. If you receive this message in error or if it is intended for someone else please notify the sender by returning this e-mail immediately and delete the message. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: O'Neill, Sean INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
Sean - Does your schema have all relationships like foreign keys defined? Otherwise you just end up with a bunch of disconnected boxes. Hardly worth the trouble. Dennis Williams DBA Lifetouch, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 9:04 AM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L ERWin www.ca.com ERStudio www.embarcadero.com Active Designer http://www.iraje.com/ad_fsmain.htm HTH Mark -Original Message- Sean Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] This message, including attached files, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the use by the individual and/or the entity to which it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of, or copying of the information contained herein is not allowed and may lead to irreparable harm and damage for which you may be held liable. If you receive this message in error or if it is intended for someone else please notify the sender by returning this e-mail immediately and delete the message. -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: O'Neill, Sean INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mark Leith INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: DENNIS WILLIAMS INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: ERD generation tool
any idea on the pricing for these tools? I dont see a price on any of these sites. Ray Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : RE: ERD generation tool Date : Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:03:36 -0800 ERWin www.ca.com ERStudio www.embarcadero.com Active Designer http://www.iraje.com/ad_fsmain.htm HTH Mark -Original Message- Sean Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Gordon INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool
ERWin is about $3,500 for a single user license. Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:38 PM any idea on the pricing for these tools? I dont see a price on any of these sites. Ray Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : RE: ERD generation tool Date : Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:03:36 -0800 ERWin www.ca.com ERStudio www.embarcadero.com Active Designer http://www.iraje.com/ad_fsmain.htm HTH Mark -Original Message- Sean Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Ray Gordon INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: KENNETH JANUSZ INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: ERD generation tool - ActiveDesigner pricing
and, pricing for ActiveDesigner (2001 dec. prices) Active D'lite approx: 995/- to the ActiveDesigner enterprise approx: 6,995/- (there are some intermediate points, dont have that info.) Keith Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 12:13:56 -0800 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Organization: Fat City Network Services, San Diego, California ERWin is about $3,500 for a single user license. Ken Janusz, CPIM - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 2:38 PM any idea on the pricing for these tools? I dont see a price on any of these sites. Ray Mark Leith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : RE: ERD generation tool Date : Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:03:36 -0800 ERWin www.ca.com ERStudio www.embarcadero.com Active Designer http://www.iraje.com/ad_fsmain.htm HTH Mark -Original Message- Sean Sent: 30 April 2002 13:24 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Can anyone please recommend/advise on NT/W2K compliant solutions which can generate ERD's by interogating the DB. - Seán O' Neill Organon (Ireland) Ltd. [subscribed: digest mode] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Keith Peterson INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
