Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
I work at the National Advanced Driving Simulator, at the University of Iowa. We running OSG on a 16 projector system, and one of the world's largest motion bases. I think we are #2 at this point. And we also use OSG in single PC simulators that we provide to a number of universities and other entities (some in Europe and middle east). That being said, as almost every else here has said, yes it is considerable effort to build everything else too. Overall we have poured way more resources into everything else (scenario control, logical database, dynamics, visual assets) than our Image Generator. Also there is a lot work modeling you have to consider. You need to build visual models and produce a correlated logical database, i.e. you need a system that know about the roads, intersections + traffic control devices, and can be queried by your scenario control system. Unless you have considerable resources to spend, you should consider starting with an existing driving simulator. You might consider: Open DS (Open Driving Simulator, I honestly don't know too much about it) https://opends.de/ My organization works with a number of entities (http://www.nads-sc.uiowa.edu/minisim/index.php) . Also with that being said what area of research are you looking at? -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64133#64133 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
Hi all, thanks for your suggestion. @Jan Ciger I had a look into Delta3D. However I have a bad feeling about it. The development is not very active, so is the support/community. But it is a very good inspiration for possible features and architectures. Thanks for that! @Per Nordqvist Thanks for letting me know that! I'm very interest in the driving simulator of Volvo, maybe you could direct me to some more information with included features or something like that? ^^ Also thanks for the hints on some possible tools and model suppliers! @bbjorn I totally agree with you. Delta3D seemed to be a good alternative with the existing tools. However, as mentioned before, it doesn't make a good expression. Unfortunately, renting or off-the-shelf platforms are not an solution because of the research character of our project (and the limited amount of money ^^). But thanks for the tip. I certainly will contact you regarding your framework :) FYI: Right now, it looks like I'll use a) Unreal Engine, b) Unity Engine or c) an in-house pbr graphics engine focused. The first and second have a nice feature set, but aren't open source. the last is open source but lacks necessary features (yay. coding ahead ^^). However, I like the idea and concepts of open scene graph and will try to integrate my solutions (which are targeted to new user interfaces) with osg in my free time. So be prepared to hear more from me :) bye. -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64126#64126 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Florian Weidner osgfo...@tevs.eu wrote: FYI: Right now, it looks like I'll use a) Unreal Engine, b) Unity Engine or c) an in-house pbr graphics engine focused. The first and second have a nice feature set, but aren't open source. the last is open source but lacks necessary features (yay. coding ahead ^^). However, I like the idea and concepts of open scene graph and will try to integrate my solutions (which are targeted to new user interfaces) with osg in my free time. So be prepared to hear more from me :) Unreal is open source - the source code is on Github, freely (as in beer) available. It isn't open in the sense of Free software - there are licensing restrictions you need to obey, mainly concerning royalties if you make some sort of commercial project with it. Jan ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
Hi Jan, afaik it is available freely but you aren't allowed to share source code or applications you developed via arbitrary channels. You have to use the unreal marketplace or the github repository. https://www.unrealengine.com/faq wrote: however the UE4 Editor (including modified versions) and code may only be distributed through official Epic channels (e.g. the UE4 launcher for binaries, and GitHub for source), to users who have accepted the EULA. https://www.unrealengine.com/faq wrote: You can’t combine the Unreal Engine code with code covered by a “Copyleft” license agreement :( :( That is, in general not a big issue but I don't like it. Imho publicly funded research should be available freely and without any restrictions. So, I consider the UDK, but would prefer another solution ^^[/quote] -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64129#64129 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Florian Weidner osgfo...@tevs.eu wrote: Hi Jan, afaik it is available freely but you aren't allowed to share source code or applications you developed via arbitrary channels. You have to use the unreal marketplace or the github repository. That's not what I know. I would love to see a reference to the EULA part saying this. https://www.unrealengine.com/faq wrote: however the UE4 Editor (including modified versions) and code may only be distributed through official Epic channels (e.g. the UE4 launcher for binaries, and GitHub for source), to users who have accepted the EULA. Well, ok, but normally you don't ship the Editor to your clients/users. That's not needed to run applications based on Unreal Engine. https://www.unrealengine.com/faq wrote: You can’t combine the Unreal Engine code with code covered by a “Copyleft” license agreement :( :( That is, in general not a big issue but I don't like it. Imho publicly funded research should be available freely and without any restrictions. So, I consider the UDK, but would prefer another solution ^^[/quote] You can use free (LGPL and such) libraries no problem in your plugins. What you cannot do is to use such libraries with the core code where it could infect it and force Epic to release the source under a more permissive license. So this usually isn't a big problem in practice but it depends a lot on what exactly you want to do. Building a simulator typically doesn't require much hacking in the Unreal Engine code itself. I agree with the idea that publicaly funded research should be available freely and without restrictions, however here you are going to hit the wall of market realities. There is no fully free/open source game engine that comes close to the features you are looking for and that these commercial engines have - hobbyists and volunteers can do a lot, but it is hard to compete with a well paid and qualified team of developers working on something like this full time. There are few free/OSS engines around - Irrlicht, Crystal Space, Delta3D, Blender Game Engine, Panda3D. Then you have some frameworks you can use to build a game engine out of - such as OSG, Bullet, ODE, etc. but that's pretty much it. It will take a lot of time and work to make a reasonable engine and tools (e.g. editor) out of those libraries. It certainly is possible, with a lot of effort, though. J. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
[osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
Hey, how are you? At first, thanks for the effort put in the development of OpenSceneGraph. For a bigger research project, i need to develop a first person driving simulator - or in other words, a framework supporting driving simulation. It should be like a customizable racing game which connects to a real life test bench for car physics, a motion platform as well as different input and visualization devices For this i need a very realistic environment (buildings, trees, traffic participants, rain, wind...) as well as a simple scenario editor. The editor should allow an easy configuration of maps and support certain triggers. A basic physics engine is also required but it does not need to be very sophisticated bc I'm going to use parameters from the real-life test bench. Currently, I'm looking for a nice open source engine which makes the development a little bit easier through having some built-in features. From the wiki and the forum I got the idea that OpenSceneGraph might be a good choice bc of it's openness, basic structure and the extensibility. Now i want to ask you, if anyone has some feedback for me? Is OpenSceneGraph be the right choice? Or do you suggest using another engine? (I'm especially concerned about the graphics. Is OpenSceneGraph suitable or fast enough?) Of course, all results of my research will be published and open source as well :) Any feedback is welcome! Thx in advance! Cheers, Florian -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64026#64026 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
OSG is certainly fast enough. You could couple in osgBullet for the physics support. What you propose to do is a lot of work, in any toolkit. On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 3:33 AM, Florian Weidner leflar...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, how are you? At first, thanks for the effort put in the development of OpenSceneGraph. For a bigger research project, i need to develop a first person driving simulator - or in other words, a framework supporting driving simulation. It should be like a customizable racing game which connects to a real life test bench for car physics, a motion platform as well as different input and visualization devices For this i need a very realistic environment (buildings, trees, traffic participants, rain, wind...) as well as a simple scenario editor. The editor should allow an easy configuration of maps and support certain triggers. A basic physics engine is also required but it does not need to be very sophisticated bc I'm going to use parameters from the real-life test bench. Currently, I'm looking for a nice open source engine which makes the development a little bit easier through having some built-in features. From the wiki and the forum I got the idea that OpenSceneGraph might be a good choice bc of it's openness, basic structure and the extensibility. Now i want to ask you, if anyone has some feedback for me? Is OpenSceneGraph be the right choice? Or do you suggest using another engine? (I'm especially concerned about the graphics. Is OpenSceneGraph suitable or fast enough?) Of course, all results of my research will be published and open source as well :) Any feedback is welcome! Thx in advance! Cheers, Florian -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64026#64026 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. xe...@alphapixel.com http://www.alphapixel.com/ Training • Consulting • Contracting 3D • Scene Graphs (Open Scene Graph/OSG) • OpenGL 2 • OpenGL 3 • OpenGL 4 • GLSL • OpenGL ES 1 • OpenGL ES 2 • OpenCL Legal/IP • Code Forensics • Digital Imaging • GIS • GPS • osgEarth • Terrain • Telemetry • Cryptography • LIDAR • Embedded • Mobile • iPhone/iPad/iOS • Android @alphapixel https://twitter.com/alphapixel facebook.com/alphapixel (775) 623-PIXL [7495] ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 11:33 AM, Florian Weidner leflar...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, how are you? At first, thanks for the effort put in the development of OpenSceneGraph. For a bigger research project, i need to develop a first person driving simulator - or in other words, a framework supporting driving simulation. It should be like a customizable racing game which connects to a real life test bench for car physics, a motion platform as well as different input and visualization devices For this i need a very realistic environment (buildings, trees, traffic participants, rain, wind...) as well as a simple scenario editor. The editor should allow an easy configuration of maps and support certain triggers. A basic physics engine is also required but it does not need to be very sophisticated bc I'm going to use parameters from the real-life test bench. OSG would certainly work, however OSG is only a scene graph. It doesn't have a pipeline for producing assets, no scenario/scene editor, no concept of a map, no scripting/triggers, etc. You would have to implement/intergrate all that yourself - OSG is basically only OpenGL with a lot of convenience functions. What you are likely looking for is a complete game engine instead. If you want to use OSG, there is Delta3D which is OSG based and integrates some of the above already. Regards, Jan ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
Hi Florian. I second Chris, OSG won't let you down on speed. Here at Volvo (trucks) we have been using OSG in our driving simulator for 10 years, no plans of switching. Several others are also using OSG in their driving simulators. Still you have a lot of work in front of you, it is a dream system you are sketching. You can easily spend 2-3 years just tweaking your moving platform - so make sure you have the right research questions before coming up with solutions. Across the river here in Gothenburg sits Electronic Arts, they create Need For Speed. To get the graphics they use ~5 people full time in Maya - hand painting the roads and scenes. When creating our graphics we use Maya, 3ds, Blender Remo3d (OSG based). We also purchase models from turbosquid etc. Feel free to contact me directly for non-OSG simulator discussions. Cheers, /Per Nordqvist On 10 June 2015 at 15:10, Chris Hanson xe...@alphapixel.com wrote: OSG is certainly fast enough. You could couple in osgBullet for the physics support. What you propose to do is a lot of work, in any toolkit. On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 3:33 AM, Florian Weidner leflar...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, how are you? At first, thanks for the effort put in the development of OpenSceneGraph. For a bigger research project, i need to develop a first person driving simulator - or in other words, a framework supporting driving simulation. It should be like a customizable racing game which connects to a real life test bench for car physics, a motion platform as well as different input and visualization devices For this i need a very realistic environment (buildings, trees, traffic participants, rain, wind...) as well as a simple scenario editor. The editor should allow an easy configuration of maps and support certain triggers. A basic physics engine is also required but it does not need to be very sophisticated bc I'm going to use parameters from the real-life test bench. Currently, I'm looking for a nice open source engine which makes the development a little bit easier through having some built-in features. From the wiki and the forum I got the idea that OpenSceneGraph might be a good choice bc of it's openness, basic structure and the extensibility. Now i want to ask you, if anyone has some feedback for me? Is OpenSceneGraph be the right choice? Or do you suggest using another engine? (I'm especially concerned about the graphics. Is OpenSceneGraph suitable or fast enough?) Of course, all results of my research will be published and open source as well :) Any feedback is welcome! Thx in advance! Cheers, Florian -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64026#64026 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org -- Chris 'Xenon' Hanson, omo sanza lettere. xe...@alphapixel.com http://www.alphapixel.com/ Training • Consulting • Contracting 3D • Scene Graphs (Open Scene Graph/OSG) • OpenGL 2 • OpenGL 3 • OpenGL 4 • GLSL • OpenGL ES 1 • OpenGL ES 2 • OpenCL Legal/IP • Code Forensics • Digital Imaging • GIS • GPS • osgEarth • Terrain • Telemetry • Cryptography • LIDAR • Embedded • Mobile • iPhone/iPad/iOS • Android @alphapixel https://twitter.com/alphapixel facebook.com/alphapixel (775) 623-PIXL [7495] ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenSceneGraph for driving simulation framework?
Hi Florian, I work a the Swedish National Road and Transport Research Institute (VTI) where we have 3 large motion based simulators as well as a couple of small fixed based simulators, all running OpenSceneGraph. I agree with all of the above that it is certainly possible to build a driving simulation framework on top of OSG, BUT it is a massive undertaking and certainly nothing you should do for just ONE project. Instead you should probably take a look at some of the off-the-shelf products available. There are plenty of suppliers which can give you a turnkey solution. There are even some running OpenSceneGraph. The framework we are using at VTI are also something we are prepared to share with selected partners. It is a research focused solution which gives you extreme flexibility at the price of usability, compared to some of the commercial alternatives which are easier to setup. Feel free to contact me if this is something of interest. Another option, if you do not want to build you own simulator for one project, is to rent a simulator. The simulators at the automotive manufacturers are often closed to the research community and only used inside company projects. But many countries offer more open simulator centers where you can rent a simulator which fits your need and budget. From simple fixed based simulators to large full motion simulators. Best regards Björn -- Read this topic online here: http://forum.openscenegraph.org/viewtopic.php?p=64045#64045 ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
