RE: [ozmidwifery] RE:
Amanda, can I contact you off-list? Cheers, Melissa. Melissa Maimann m: 0400 418 448 Essential Birth Consulting -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Amanda W Sent: Sunday 28 January 2007 21:25 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] RE: October Amanda Ward Creative Memories Consultant Ph. (07) 3261 4354 Mob, 0417 009 648 Email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Alan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:38:14 +1100 I'm on my way down to VIC in the next couple of weeks. When do you need someone for? Alan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Amanda W Sent: Sunday, 28 January 2007 17:28 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Hi all, Am looking for a midwife/doula that will visit Ararat. Can anyone help??? Cheers Amanda. Amanda Ward Creative Memories Consultant Ph. (07) 3261 4354 Mob, 0417 009 648 Email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Advertisement: Fresh jobs daily. Stop waiting for the newspaper. Search Now! www.seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau_ t =757263760_r=Hotmail_EndText_Dec06_m=EXT -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Advertisement: Fresh jobs daily. Stop waiting for the newspaper. Search Now! www.seek.com.au http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Eseek%2Ecom%2Eau_t =757263760_r=Hotmail_EndText_Dec06_m=EXT -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Well actually for my first and only labour and birth (so far) I took two panadol when I thought I could not stand it any longer!! (P.S I had no other drugs!) - Original Message - From: Kylie Carberry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre I can obviously see why this mum's distressed, but I can help ask why she was surprised no one offered her Panadol. Having been in labour my fair share of times, never has it been offered and I think I would have laughed if it had been! Kylie From: Kelly Zantey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:33:54 +1100 Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco. A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your frustrations?
You could learn pregnancy massage and some of the natural therapies. Try the Australian College of Natural Therapies. Or a counselling degree / diploma - this complements midwifery very nicely. Try the Australian Institute of Professional Counsellors - I know they run a distance education course. A certificate IV in work place assessment and training is always handy to have. Melissa Maimann Essential Birth Consulting Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Mobile: 0400 418 448 _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan Rachael Austin Sent: Thursday 11 January 2007 15:34 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] How do you deal with your fustrations? I'm emailing again because I don't think the email I wrote yesterday went through? At least I didn't get it on my computer. To help me deal with my frustrations, so to speak, I am contemplating doing some more study so that I can do some independent antenatal education. I would love some advice and guidance from the wise ladies/men on this list please. A bit of history about me. I live rurally and have a 6 week oldbaby and a 3y.o, and I am tandem breastfeeding them. I would prefer something that I could study from home, but am prepared to travel if necessary. I have found these courses, but would like to know what else is available, so that I can enrol in the best or most suitable course for me at this stage in my life. As far as I'm aware there is no one who does independent childbirth education in any form in this district or surrounding districts, so I'd have potential to start a business, at least one that is child friendly and I can pick and choose my own hours..oh and no one staff politics!. Like many of you have said working in a hospital setting no longer appeals to me whatsoever. I'd love to work with a MIPP to gain experience as I've only not long graduated my GD of midwifery, but there is no one around this area as I said before., so to make the most of my suitation i think this is a good idea...So tell me what courses are there avaibable, what courses/studies have you done? These are the ones I've looked into. Graduate Diploma in Childbirth Education (not available as far as I'm aware) Master of Midwifery. Hypnobirthing Practitioner training Calmbirthing practitioner training ICEA: CBE course Bradely Method ABA community educator course IBLCE lactaion course Natural Birth Education Research Center: G.D (or G.C) of natural birth Infant Massage Instructor training Over time I would love to do a number of these to cater to the wide and varying needs of childbearing women and their families. But for now, I'd love to hear some advice and recommendations from you! PLEASE!! TIA, Rachael
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen
Me too! Sick and tired of it all, I wish that people would take time to think... 'does she have any other signs of second stage?' Melissa - Original Message - From: cath nolan To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac didn't happen Hi everyone, My friend had a baby boy last night by c.s. I have spoken with her this morning. After being seen by a wonderful midwife from this list, she rang and cancelled the caeser booking for yesterday morning and went into what sounds good labour after a sweep. . She couldn't talk much about details , but sounded happy with her baby boy called Riley, who was 8lb1 and 54 cms. He has breastfed beautifully, thank goodness. By the gist of the short story , was examined and told to push and wasn't fully. AH. Then told to breathe through etc etc, re examined hours later 6cm. I'm so over women being put through this crap. God I wish people would learn to trust womens bodies and stop fiddling. Why can't they wait until pushy signs happen!! Of course I have n't said anything to her just venting here about this.She sounded tired and a bit spaced out, having regular peth and will talk more when she is out of hospital. She is pleased that she laboured and had no analgesia throughout. It's just a damn pity that she needed the section in the end. I'm off to work a late shift, wish me luck, Cath
Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth
Sue, I asked the 'powers to be' again as to why we can't use the bath. The response was that it is very dangerous What a uphill battle everything always is!! I also asked why we then don't have a policy on how to have a shower in labour. The response was walking off in a huff! Melissa P.S We only got the bath because we wrote a letter to Jim McGinty, which we got in trouble for, and interestingly enough when he came for a tour of the ward renovations last week the sign on the door which says do not use until further notice was gone. I also asked about this. Maybe Mr McGinty needs to know that the bath that he instructed to be installed is still not in use! - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Mary, you may also be interested to know that our brand new bath (where I work) is yet to be used because we -apparently - have to have a policy in place before women are allowed to use it for labour! Even though no other hospital seems to have seen this as a necessary requirement. Births in this pristine piece of porcelain are verbotten, but we will utilise the KEMH policy for 'unplanned' waterbirths. However we are still wondering when the powers that be will actually risk letting our labouring women get into the bath. It's been sitting there unused for some months now!! Merry Christmas to you too, and to all on the list Sue - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] waterbirth Thank you all for your swift replies. I am supporting midwife who, as a midwife in homebirth, did lots of water births and was recently present at a water birth in a hospital where SHE supported the midwife who supported a woman's wishes for a water birth. As we have only 'accidental' water birth policies in WA hospitals, these midwives are being 'hauled over the coals' for not making the woman get out of the water to birth. Lots of intimidation going on. This will all help. Thanks and Merry Christmas, Mary M Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.15/581 - Release Date: 9/12/2006 3:41 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] paed burn cream
SSD is silvazine. It comes (well used to anyway) in black tubes or big tubs. It had to be kept in the fridge and was a prescription drug. When a burn patient arrived in ED. The wound was cleaned then SSD applied, non stick dressing then bandage. We used to leave it for 24 -48 hrs, then take the dressing down, debride and reapply if necessary. It was used on adults as well as children. Hope that helps Melissa - Original Message - From: Kristin Beckedahl To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] paed burn cream I'm not sure..what is SSD cream? From: Rene and Tiffany [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] paed burn cream Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 19:55:04 +1000 Are you referring to SSD cream? René Tiff From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kristin Beckedahl Sent: Friday, 8 December 2006 4:37 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] paed burn cream I'm trying to find out the name of the burn cream used in paed (and maybe others) wards for childrens burns - apparently been around for years and really helps to rapidly heal the wounds?? Any idea? Thanks, Kristin Advertisement: Fresh jobs daily. Stop waiting for the newspaper. Search Now! www.seek.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. image001.jpg -- Join the millions of Australians using Live Search. Try live.com.au -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] independent midwifery
Dear Sharon, I'm curious to know where you work? Melissa. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of sharon Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 11:46 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] independent midwifery I am an hospital based midwife and I believe that I do give evidence based care, the hospital that I work for is working on a homebirth standard presently and the group practice will soon be able to offer women homebirths provided the individual midwife is confortable to offer this service. The individual midwives in the DE are quick to develop rapport with their women and they also are good at getting to know the women and their needs. I dislike people on this list who consitantly run down hospital based midwives and the care that they provide can people please remember that IMP is not for everyone although it is a good way to develop and maintain your skills. cheers -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne Sent: Friday, 1 December 2006 8:28 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] independent midwifery It puzzles me too. Why choose an evidence based carer and then take them somewhere they can't provide you with it? Because if you know you have a higher than average change of NEEDING a hospital if might be nice to have someone who knows you, cares about you and will actually give you evidence based advice while you are there. Women in this situation need an ipm MORE not less if you ask me... Even my midwife confessed (after the magical homebirth) that she had expected me to end up in hospital with a medical extravaganza given my health issues. Without my midwife not only would there not have been the option of homebirth if I made it to term healthy, there probably would have been almost no chance of even a remotely natural birth in hospital, for a whole host of reasons I haven't time to explain right now. Planning a home birth should not be a requirement of hiring an IPM. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/560 - Release Date: 30/11/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc
Hi Jo, I think it is not licenced for use for induction of labour with live babies in australia. It's ok for stillbirth induction and pph. Melissa - Original Message - From: Jo Watson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc From what I've heard, it is a drug not licensed for use in obstetrics (but it is used, obviously) ... I can't remember it's primary function though. And I can't be bothered googling right now. Jo On 15/11/2006, at 5:02 PM, meg wrote: I work at a major tertiary hospital-we stock misoprostil and use it with pph's so I think it is licenced. Meg - Original Message - From: Lisa Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 4:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc misoprostal isn't licenced here is Australia. I wouldn't be prescribing it if I were a GP. When I was Working at a private Hospital the Obs kept it in their own possesion. It isn't licenced to be kept at the hospital as far as I know. The pharmacy at the hospital wouldn't touch it. It's not the sort of drug you should have at a homebirth anyway. Lisa Barrett - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:55 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc I am hoping to get a script for Misoprostal (sp) for my homebirth. Any ideas. Should I just ask a GP? What are they liable for if they do prescribe it. Cheers Philippa Scott Birth Buddies - Doula Assisting women and their families in the preparation towards childbirth and labour. President of Friends of the Birth Centre Townsville -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robyn Dempsey Sent: Wednesday, 15 November 2006 12:10 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc Yes, the synto is about $100 a box. So what I do, is buy/pay for one box, which lasts for the next women ( does that make sense?), I only use Synto about once a year! ( and then there are the years you need it 3 times in a row!) Robyn D - Original Message - From: Jennifairy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] getting synto etc I have a few births at home coming up and was wondering about synto and other drugs in my kit. How do others purchase them? Do I have to have a script from a doctor? The other issue that I do find difficult is the issue of cost for homebirth.Others I have been involved in have been for friends and colleagues. Does anyone have a schedule of payment and cost that they use? I am meeting with a couple on Monday and would love to have a bit more idea. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated, Thanks Cath Had a client recently who I sent to her GP for a script for synt. She got the script, went to the chemist to fill it found it was going to cost her around $80 to get it - they only sold it in the boxes of five vials. I ended up asking around my MIPP friends managed to find some that way (dint need it anyway so its still in my fridge). If you give me your postal address Im happy to post some to you - my understanding is that its ok to keep it out of the fridge for a time. cheers -- Jennifairy Gillett RM Midwife in Private Practice Women's Health Teaching Associate ITShare volunteer - Santos Project Co-ordinator ITShare SA Inc - http://itshare.org.au/ ITShare SA provides computer systems to individuals groups, created from donated hardware and opensource software -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. __ NOD32 1866 (20061114) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Blood gasses( Long)
Thanks Mary for all your effort in finding these refs. Very useful. Melissa - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Blood gasses( Long) This Technical report covers fetal monitoring in a really comprehensive way. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?rid=hstat6.section.700 Re blood gases, I promise not to bother you again, but still having difficulties finding recent studies. This first one appears to explain the process and meanings better than any other I have read. I excerpted some interesting points from the articles I read. MM 1. BRITISH JOURNAL OF OBSTETRICS AND GYNAECOLOGY, 101:1054-1063, 1994 Umbilical Cord Blood Gas Analysis at Delivery: A Time for Quality Data. Jennifer A. Westgate, Jonathan M. Garibaldi, Keith R. Greene 2, Postpartum Determination of Umbilical Artery Blood Gases: Effect of Time and Temperature Moshe Manor, Isaac Blicksteina, Ynon Hazan, Orna Flidel-Rimon1, and Zion J. Hagay 1 Depts. of Obstet. and Gynecol. and Neonatol., Kaplan Hosp., 76100 Rehovot, Israel (affiliated with Hadassah-Hebrew Univ. School of Med., Jerusalem);a author for correspondence: fax 972-8-9411944, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Determination of cord blood gases and pH is recommended in all neonates with low Apgar scores to distinguish metabolic acidosis from hypoxemia or from other causes that might result in low Apgar scores (1). Although the metabolic acidosis found in cord blood is a poor predictor of long-term neurological injury (2), assessment of umbilical cord blood gas is helpful to exclude intrapartum or birth events that cause acidosis and serves as legal evidence against any alleged association with poor outcome (3). 3. Obstet Gynecol Clin North Am. 1999 Dec;26(4):695-709. Related Articles, Links Umbilical cord blood gas analysis. Thorp JA, Rushing RS. St. Luke's Hospital of Kansas City, Missouri, USA.Umbilical cord blood gas and pH values should always be obtained in the high-risk delivery and whenever newborn depression occurs. This practice is important because umbilical cord blood gas analysis may assist with clinical management and excludes the diagnosis of birth asphyxia in approximately 80% of depressed newborns at term. The most useful umbilical cord blood parameter is arterial pH. Sampling umbilical venous blood alone is not recommended because arterial blood is more representative of the fetal metabolic condition and because arterial acidemia may occur with a normal venous pH. A complete blood gas analysis may provide important information regarding the type and cause of acidemia and sampling the artery and vein may provide a more clear assessment. The sampling technique is simple and easily mastered by any treatment person in the delivery room. Preheparinized syringes ensure a consistent dose and amount of heparin. Depending on how normality is defined and on the population studied, normal ranges for umbilical cord blood gas values vary (see Table 1). In general, the lower range for normal arterial pH extends to at least 7.10 and that for venous pH to at least 7.20. Many different factors during pregnancy, labor, and delivery can affect cord blood gases. Umbilical blood sampling for acid-base status at all deliveries cannot be universally recommended because many facilities do not have the capabilities to support such a practice and in doing so may impose an excessive financial burden. Considering the costs, the accumulated published data, and the nonspecificity of electronic fetal monitoring in the evaluation of fetal oxygenation, it may be more rational to implement universal cord blood gas analysis. Care providers and institutions with the logistical capabilities in place should consider the cost efficacy of routine cord blood gas analysis because it is the gold standard assessment of uteroplacental function and fetal oxygenation/acid-base status at birth. 4. Umbilical Cord Blood Gas Analysis at DeliveryS F Loh, A Woodworth, G S H Yeo (research carried out in 1994. MM) Umbilical cord blood gas values reflect the last moment of fetal oxygenation and acid base balance prior to delivery. Severe fetal acidemia is associated with increased perinatal mortality and increased risk of subsequent impaired neurological develop In acute hypoxic insult of short duration, fetal and placental blood may not have sufficient time to equilibrate and this may be reflected in a large arterial-venous difference in BDecf. However, in long-standing hypoxic insult, lactic acid produced by the baby was given time to be removed across
RE: [ozmidwifery] Drug-induced labour raises complication risk
Hi all, Looking at the 2004 NSW Mothers and Babies report, there was 1 maternal death in 2003 and 1 in 2003 from amniotic fluid embolism. In 2004 (for NSW), 44.1% women had a spontaneous onset of labour, 15.3% had no labour, and the remaining 40.6% were induced or augmented. Also, let's not forget that AFE can occur with caesarean sections too. Cheers, Melissa. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wendy Thornton Sent: Tuesday 24 October 2006 07:33 To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Drug-induced labour raises complication risk adamnamy wrote: Hmm..interesting. Am I right in thinking the induction/augmented rate is much higher than 10-20% here in Australia? Anyone know any stats off hand? Amy *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Kelly @ BellyBelly *Sent:* Monday, 23 October 2006 6:00 PM *To:* ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au *Subject:* [ozmidwifery] Drug-induced labour raises complication risk From http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1click_id=117art_id=qw1161328141968B 243 *Drug-induced labour raises complication risk* October 20 2006 at 10:56AM Women who are given drugs to induce labour are nearly twice as likely to suffer an amniotic fluid embolism, a rare but potentially fatal complication of pregnancy, according to a study published on Friday. Researchers for the Maternal Health Study Group of the Canadian Perinatal Surveillance System studied more than three million deliveries of babies in Canada over a 12-year period. In 185 cases, women experienced the rare complication in which the amniotic fluid that surrounds a baby in the womb enters the bloodstream and causes a blockage, they wrote in the Lancet medical journal. In 24 of those cases, the mothers died. The women had been given drugs to induce labour in just 17 percent of the deliveries. But those accounted for 52 of the amniotic fluid embolisms - 28 percent - and 10 of the fatal cases, or 42 percent. We should emphasise that the absolute risk of increase of amniotic fluid embolism for women undergoing medical induction of labour is very small: four or five total cases and one or two fatal cases per 100,000 women induced, the authors wrote. However, with 4 million births per year and induction rates approaching 20 percent in the USA, this practice could be causing amniotic fluid embolism in 30-40 women per year in the USA alone, including 10-15 deaths, they wrote. Although the small absolute risk of amniotic fluid embolism is unlikely to affect the decision to induce labour in the presence of compelling clinical indications, women and physicians should be aware of the risk if the decision is elective. Best Regards, **Kelly Zantey** Creator, **BellyBelly.com.au** http://www.bellybelly.com.au**__** Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby **BellyBelly Birth Support** http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support**__** Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.13.0/464 - Release Date: 5/10/2006 You are absolutely right to suspect induction and augmentation rates are soaring! Sorry cant quote stats ( someone will be able to im sure) as i dont work in hospital system , but i closely communicate with hospital midwives and they ALL say figures are escalating.As the control is taken away even more for women and the cascade of intervention climbs, more women are traumatised, more babies wounded and fear attached to birth grows!And our society becomes more silent... Wendy. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases
Hi Shelley, I recently attended a advanced fetal assessment course at our tertiary hospital and all the pros for cord blood gases were presented. CTG's were discussed with pros and cons such as 80% show some abnormality but 80% of babies are not sick or acidotic. It was presented as one of certain diagnostic tools for fetal acidosis and therefore useful for litigation. You mentioned the results are inaccurate. I'd be very interested in hearing why they are inaccurate. We don't do them and I don't agree with routinely doing them so any more information would be helpful. Thanks Melissa - Original Message - From: michelle gascoigne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Naomi In England we have seen in increase in 'fear' of litigation. Obstetrics in this country has always taken a huge chunk of the litigation for most hospitals . We now have in our country CNST (clinical neglegence scheme for trusts). Trusts are what groups of health care organisations are called. CNST is an insurance that Trusts pay into so that litigation claims can be paid when won. The CNST set out standards for trusts and depending on how well you achieve the standards determines the insurance premiums, which you can imagine are huge figures. The trouble is that CNST requirements for the standards to be met are not always sensible or in the best interests of women. Some standards like (cord blood sampling for ph post birth) are simply taken to record results in the notes which may protect against litigation in the future. I have a million issues with this practice! We had a university supervised professional debate about this issue in the Trust where I worked when it first became an issue. The midwives against and the Obs. for. We won the debate but the CNST requirements meant that we could save the Trust loads of money if we did them so they were introduced. Some of us still refused to do them. I would only do them if it was explained in full to the mother and father and they agreed. I gave it to them warts and all (like the obs openly admit that it is just to defend them in cases of litigation.). I did not make the decision the parents did. Needless to say when you tell them how inaccurate the results are and that neither they nor the baby will benfit from the results. Many choose not to have it done. I will search out my references and post them seperately. Our debate was published in a midwifery mag here! Shelly Midwife - Original Message - From: Naomi Wilkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 9:07 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] cord blood gases Hi all, Just wondering how common it is for cord blood gases to be done in maternity units. I work in a small metro. hospital with a very busy maternity unit and our medical 'powers that be' are pushing for them to be done at every birth. Something we, the midwives, are very, very reluctant to do. I was also wondering if anyone knows of any research that may help us to prevent this from becoming a routine thing. Thanks Naomi. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.12/461 - Release Date: 02/10/2006 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] doubles
I just seem to get two of Lisa's Melissa - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 4:16 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] doubles I am receiving 2 of everyones emails. Is this happening to others or just me? MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph
I thought group b strep and staph aureaus are different organisms? Staph infections on vaginal swab require no treatment or preventative abs in labour. Staph seems to have no effects on baby (that they haven't found out yet!) and it is a normal colonisation of the skin only becoming a issue in the sick, and immunocompromised. I not 100% sure and am getting ready for work so no time to look it up yet. (p.s sharon, where i work we use benzpennicillin 1.2grams then 600mg every four hours.) Regards Melissa - Original Message - From: sharon To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph Thats right gbs is group b streph which is found on vaginal swab at 36 weeks treated with benzpennicillin during labour every 4 hours commencing with a loading dose of 3 gms then 1.2 gm every four hours while in active labour. Regards sharon From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Ceri KatrinaSent: Friday, 6 October 2006 7:32 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] GBS and Staph Isn't GBS a staph infection??? Been awhile since I was at work, relishing in the time off work with little munchkin who is now 3 and bit months old.katrinaOn 06/10/2006, at 7:06 PM, Kelly @ BellyBelly wrote: One of the women on my site has just found out she has both of these things. She said she has googled for hours and cant find anything on Staph specifically. Can someone pass on some knowledge on what this is going to mean? I have never heard of someone having both before . Shes almost 38wks Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator,BellyBelly.com.auConception, Pregnancy, Birth and BabyBellyBelly Birth Support
Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions
Hi all, I've just gotten home from work and I feel jinxed! I was caring for a very motivated primip who presented before I arrived at 1930hrs. She previously had phoned and presented earlier in the morning in early labour. When she came she was examined by the midwife and was contracting 4-5/60, palp LOP and 1/5 above brim. VE 6 cm and at spines. I arrived at 2130hrs and the obstetrician came to see her before he went to bed and he palped her and agreed and wanted a ARM. Anyway all was going well and she wanted Pethidine at 2330hrs(he told her you'd be stupid not to have pethidine as a first timer and the baby needs it as well because his head gets squashed! so the idea was firmly implanted) I examined her on the birth stool where she was labouring quietly and she was 7 cm, well applied, station +1, no moulding. We discussed ARM as ordered and she consented to it after the pethidine had taken effect. At 2400hrs contractions had slowed to 6-7/60 and she wanted the ARM at that time. ARM at 0030hrs. Her contractions became weak to moderate 6-7mins, and she was enjoying the rest so I let her be for 3hrs. At 0330hrs no pick up of contractions so I discussed with the doctor ?synto and he said no and her contractions will pick up eventually. I was thinking maybe but the longer she goes the higher the chances the following obstetrician at 0700 will do a C/S plus a few other warning signs! She was happy to following my suggestions and mobilise but she could only do it for short periods due to sheer exhaustion. When standing/ stool she had strong contractions with involuntary pushing, anal pouting etc, but back on the bed they virtually stopped. Due to the recent thread on this list I watched her fluid intake very carefully. At 0400hrs she had a total of 1800mls of H2O and lemonade. I even gave her a spoonful of honey! She was voiding well and no palpable bladder. Pushing became uncontrollable, show, anal dilation etc. I decided to recheck her cervix and she was still 8cm at 0500hrs, LOP and station +2-+3. I was faced with the dilemma of leaving her on the stool where she was having strong contractions but uncontrollable pushing or back for a lie down where the contractions would virtually stop. Anyway she was desperate for a rest and wanted to lie down. At this stage she was totally spent, physically and emotionally. Dr still wouldn't come to see her. New doc came on and examined her and said that the vertex was +3 but it was only moulding and the actual head was still5/5 abovebrim!! With a anterior lip no less (I don't know how with everyone independently agreeing that it was 1/5above in early labour) Down the corridor she went for a C/S for 'CPD and always to be a C/S' I feel strongly that she would have birthed beautifully with good contractions if something had been done earlier in the shift,when she had the strength, energy and motivation.I could find no cause for her stop/start labour and there were no signs of obstruction, no moulding etc. Sorry its so long but any thoughts? Melissa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions I wanted to respond also about how sad I feel as a consumer that the hospital midwives must do the lesser of two evils. Sad for the midwives who have to practice this way as it must be so hard. Also sad for the families that use this system that they often dont get evidence based care or an expectant management approach because they dont have enough information to say actually I am not going to have either option, I want something different. If only they knew to ask is that really necessary? Why? Another reason to have a professional support person I suppose or a private midwife. What a terrible state of affairs we are in. I truly feel for all who are involved in this type of scenario as no-one gets to experience that birth in the way it was meant to be. Absolutely Philippa - this is the truth of the matter, women don't know that there IS another option, and we are caught between the rock and the hard place in trying to care for them. Sue PS - will try both the sugar water and the honey next time I have a slow labour :-) - Original Message - From: Philippa Scott To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 8:52 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] No Contractions I had a Sudanese client a while back whose other support person (another Sudanese woman) gave the client hot water with about 10 sugars in it. Traditionally they use a slightly different hot mixture she said, but boy did it pick up her contractions. This was her 3rd baby and third labour for this baby in 2 weeks. Fear played a big part in two labours
Re: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article
Yes, I liked the phrase "needed a caesarean". Just like the common one post NELUSC 'lucky we did that because the uterus was starting to thin' or 'very lucky because the cord was around the neck' ... u and? Sometime I worry that this culture that had been adopted of women 'unable' to birth and obstetric intervention has gone to far to stop or reverse. It is very depressing. Also I wonder if we have turned into a third world country with malnourished women who have rickets in their pelvises because of all the C/S for CPD, obstructed labour etc!!! Maybe I'm feeling particularly jaded because I did night duty last night and haven't slept, but I go to work prepared for battle! Melissa - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 11:30 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FYI news article Hi Louise and others, No eating alive to be done from here J but I did want to comment on this one…the thing I think I find most offensive about all of this is that it just carries on the charade that the women are paying for, and therefore getting the ‘best’ care. Women have been conned into thinking that if they pay the highest fees for the PHI, and then pay the biggest gap payment for the ‘best’ obstetrician, go to the ‘best’ hospital, they will have the best, and therefore the safest birth. This plan just carries that little lie on, by drawing more women into the system, and into this one hospital in particular, when the cold hard reality is that less than one in three of them is going to give birth to their babies through their vagina anyway, and of those one in three, how many are going to be straightforward? My sources tell me that the c/s rate for primips is up around 70%...so how many women are going to be conned into thinking that they will get this great hotel stay, and then just be glad they were in the hospital to start with, because they ‘needed’ a caesarean… Just makes me sad Tania --No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 19/09/2006 --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.5/451 - Release Date: 19/09/2006
Re: [ozmidwifery] midwives supporting homebirth being attacked
At the hospital I work at you have to write to and receive permission from the DON before undertaking employment outside the hospital!! Good grief, are we two and need permission to go outside and play? The notion that our lives outside of the hospital need to be sanctioned by a DON is appalling! Needless to say I have never written to the DON but many off the staff do Melissa - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au; Maternity Coalition [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 6:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] midwives supporting homebirth being attacked The last two days I have been trying to support one of our colleagues who is under attack. Anne Smith, whom many of you will know, had moved from Mildura where she had worked for many years at the hospital and attending home births, to Wangaratta to work in their community midwifery program which offers continuity of care to women so long as the give birth at the hospital. She has continued to attend home births since she moved. Last week one of the women who was attending the program decided she wanted to birth at home and so Anne documented this in her notes and informed the woman that she would no longer be eligible to attend the program for ante natal care as this is the accepted practice there. Subsequently Anne has been called to task by management because they felt that as she had agreed to attend the home birth for a woman who she had previously seen in the community midwife program there was a conflict of interest/. Yesterday she was presented with an ultimatum 1. resign, 2. be dismissed immediately or 3. promise not attend the home birth Anne felt she had no option but to resign and honour her commitment to the woman to be with her where she chooses to birth. Anne has now sacrificed he major source of income and the women of wangaratta wanting to attend the community midwife program a very experienced and passionate midwife. I know this email will be read by people who already get it so its a little like preaching to the converted but this will have an imapct, Most midwives in private practice dont have enough clients to do this as their sole source of income. Most country towns only have one hospital and if I could not supplement my income by working at the local hospital then I would probably have to move and this would deny homebirth with a midwife to women in the large geographical area that I cover. Wangaratta si no different and if midwives cant who offer home birthing as an option to women cant work at the hospital it is unlikely they will remain there fro long. The other thing they were suggesting is that once a woman attends the community midwifery program and meets the midwives she is bo longer able to choose to birth at home. When asked to sign a code of conduct at the hospital where you work make sure you read it. I did and refused to sign mine until they changed it as it said I had to ask permission from the DON before undertaking other employment. They tried to tell me that this didnt mean that I was reading too much into it and making a fuss over nothing but they eventually removed the clause from my document before I signed it but I know many of my colleagues weren't even aware that that clause was in there when they signed it. This was one thing that was put to Anne that the document she signed said she had to notify(might not be the right word) the hospital board were she undertaking other employment so read your appropriate document carefully as they are all derivatives of the same thing. IWe all think we are allowed to work where we want but it seems hospitals dont have the same opinion on this that we do. Of course it you want to work at another hosital that seems to be OK its only if you are doing something they dont want you to do that they will bring this up against you. Is this what the next round is about? Will other hospitals that employ midwives who also work outside the hospital try this one next. I suspect so. Be prepared. Andrea Quanchi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Low liquor was Trial of scar
Title: Message I didn't think Lisa was dismissive of Gloria, and I thought she made a valid and well stated point, which has encouraged debate, discussion and further thought. Thanks Lisa - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Low liquor was Trial of scar Lisa, "such a broad unsupported statement could lead a woman to believe that the current management of her pregnancy is incorrect because she read on this list of very experienced midwives and doulas that decreased liqour was only due to imminent labour." Well, since women aren't morons, and pregnancy is not really an issue of "management" but rather CARE and SUPPORT, I don't think we need to fear that a woman reading research, evidence and opinion and making her own decisionswill trulybe endangered by "a little bit of knowledge" - if she is able to enjoy true control of her own pregnancy and birth and receive true care and support. Besides which I personally find no flaw in Janet's reasoning and statement; it's accurate. And this is a consumer list as much as it is a Midwife and Doula list. "Mary I was not 'dismissing" the opinions of Gloria Lemay, and I am aware of her background." Gloria Lemay's wisdom, experience and evidence based knowledge is not "the opinion of an American Doula" (I don't know of many women with more claim to the title of MIDWIFE than Gloria!) - besides which, I'm intrigued as to why an American Doula's contributions would hold little weight anyway? If you ARE in fact aware of her background (as well as the fact that she can see and post on this list), I would have thought you would have at leastphrased your dismissal more respectfully. I also feel sad that wisdom, intuition, instinct and common senseare rejected and that Midwives will disregard the hard won wisdom of their own (Gloria made some colossal personal sacrifices in honour of TRULY being with woman and providing REAL support and care). Where is our respect for our real crones and our birthing women's innate wisdom? And I wouldn't "shoot an opinion from an Obstetrician down in flames" if that opinion was accurate, fair, woman-centered, evidence-based,and reasonable.
Re: [ozmidwifery] CTG stillbirth
Hi Michelle, CTG's have been proven to be very inaccurate, for various reason such as interpretation etc. In fact 80% of all CTG's will show some abnormality, which is staggering considering it is such a widely spread and heavily relied on tool. Why is it used?, because in most hospital's it is the best available. That is why some places are moving from CTG alone towards biophysical profiles in birth suite which is far more accurate. Often a suspicious CTG will be shown ok with BPP and the women is left alone without further interference and vice vera. Very sad.. - Original Message - From: Sadie To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] CTG stillbirth CTG's can only reveal what is happening at that moment and are subjective to interpretation.Often a CTG can look positively awful, and yet after FBS the pH is fine - and how often have many of us taken an emergency C/S to theatre because of a trace that was not reassuring - to have a screaming, healthy baby emerge (thank goodness, as you are on stand-by with resus). This is very sad Michelle, but you cannot say this has happened because CTG's are unreliable. The CTG at 3pm was probably reflecting accurately - and the poor midwife who was responsible for performing that CTG will be feeling bad enough as it is. Just my thoughts having been through a similar situation.. Sadie - Original Message - From: Michelle Windsor To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] CTG stillbirth Recently where I work a primip come in at term plus 7 days in early labour about 11pm. She had a CTG at 3pm which was reactive, good variability etc. (they do routine CTG's on post-dates women). The woman wasn't inestablished labour and the midwife suggested she return home. The woman wasn't keen for this so stayed and the FHR was auscultated every couple of hours and was normal, with the woman still not in active labour. Apparently after change of shift the next midwife couldn't find a FHR and USS confirmed the baby had died within the last couple of hours. I wasn't caring for this woman so don't know all the details but apparently she had an uneventful pregnancy although she had presented three times during pregnancy with decreased movements and the CTG's were always normal. To me it just proves again the unreliability of CTG's. Just interested in what others think. Cheers Michelle On Yahoo!7 360°: Your own space to share what you want with who you want!
Re: [ozmidwifery] RE:
Hi Amanda, I have worked places where they don't give Vit K until mum and baby have returned to the ward. They changed their practice so babies are not given any routine medication at all in birth suite (unless for resus) because their have been a few instances where baby inadvertently and tragically was given the mothers syntocinon. A way in this could happen is someone else prepared the synto, accidentally leaves it on the resus trolley. The primary midwife is unaware and gets her own synto and the second midwife thinks she is giving Vik K. Regards, Melissa - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 6:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] RE: Hi Amanda, Why not delay the Vit K and do both on day 1? We have just stopped giving vit K and weighing the babe in the birth suite so that there is less interruption to the early time between babe and parent/s and first breast feed. We generally give Hep B on day 2 or 3 if the parents want the babe to have it. Regards, Nicole. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Amanda W Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:11 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Hi all, I have just started working at a new health facility that tends to give hep B injections on day 2 or 3. I have come from a facility that gives hep B at birth when vitamin k is given. Can anyone shed some light as to why the might do it this way. Any articles. They seem to not know why they do it. I just want to change practice so that can be done at the same time as the vitamin k. Thanks. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] weight loss
Hi Sue, This particular lady had me stumped too! Good luck and let me what the outcome. Melissa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: midwifery list Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] weight loss Dear wise women I have been following a client on early discharge whose baby is losing weight. Now about 2 weeks old, I readmitted her on day 5 as bub was lethargic, had not had a bowel movement and had lost weight. She expressed, fed and topped up, bub 'woke up' and put on weight, started opening bowels and generally improved all round, went home again fully breast feeding, seems to have plenty of milk, plenty of wet nappies but again - no poo's, and on last 2 visits had lost weight, 50g then another 40g. Has not regained birth weight yet and does not seem satisfied despite frequent b/f. I will be seeing her again tomorrow and am frankly puzzled by this scenario. She is on medication herself for epilepsy (low dose Tegretol and another that I can't remember) and has been taking Motilium to boost supply. Any suggestions/comments? TIA Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke
Re: [ozmidwifery] allergies and vaginal , c/section birth
I can't put my hands on it now but i know it does exist! I have read about increased risk of asthma and allergy with C/S, and also spoken with a paediatric allergist who also concurs. So it's out there! Perhaps a google search? Melissa - Original Message - From: islips To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] allergies and vaginal , c/section birth Hi Everyone, I wonder if anyone has come across any research that looks at the mode of delivery and the incidence of severe allergies / asthma in these children. Thanks in advance Zoe
[no subject]
Hi all wise women, I know this is something already widely discussed, but at work this morning we were discussing redeveloping our breastfeeding policy. A hot debate occurred in relation to timing of the first breastfeed. In particular if the baby does not show interest in feeding in the first few hours, length of time before we start interfering. 6 hours was being tossed around before doing BSL's, NGT feeding, gastric lavage etc. I was wondering if anyone had any links or references at hand to support allowing the healthy term baby to go longer and to have his first breastfeed when he is ready. Thanks Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] working in a private hospital ?
Sorry Julie, having worked in a variety of private hospitals while doing agency work when I first moved to Perth I cannot give abalanced view. I work in a fairly midwifery orientated public hospital. Melissa - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] working in a private hospital ? Dearwise women, I'm wanting to get an idea on what the disadvantages and benefits are to working in a private hospital . I must admit, as a direct entry midwife, I probably have a less than positive view of the private system having been told by lecturers that doing clinical placement there would be a waste of time. ( You become very "birth centric"' when you have to catch 40 babies to register). Ithink I'm asking for a balanced view here if one exists. Julie, longtime daily lurker :)
Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hi Sue, I too have seen many transitional women at 3 or 4cm who birthed within in the hour! Melissa - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? I have long thought that transition phase has nothing to do with how many centimetres dilated a woman is, have been laughed at several times for suggesting that a woman was transitional at only 3cms, only to have a birth within 1/2 hour. Ihave known even very experienced midwives get VE's wrong - one memorable one was a woman who was supposed to be 'fully' and in reality had a posterior closed os, which had not been reached - the midwife was feeling the head stretching the anterior vag wall and had not felt back far enough to reach the os. Mistook the bulging anterior wall for an open cervix. Another who self-examined and got the stage correct (5cms) but entirely missed the fact that it was an undiagnosed breech! She just thought the baby was bald :-) Melissa - I agree that your own assessment at home was probably correct and can only assume that the admitting midwife made an error, but you own behaviour at that time was surely transitional! (still, a good story to dine out on !! :-)) For myself I found self examination quite easy but did not do it prior to going in- was most disappointed to be told I was only 5cms and not thinking that my labour was strong and that I was transitional - delivered 1 hour later, after self-checking and finding an anterior lip. I don't know how women not used to feeling their own bodies would fare - as student midwives we all found this to be one of the hardest skills to learn and it took many VE's before it clicked for me. Ina May Gaskin, and others also speak of cervix's actually 'going backwards' and I have seen this occasionally. Interesting thoughts Sue "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 12:35 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Oh what a stressful experience I had something similar happen for my first vaginal birth (and labour) when I was examined I was only 3 but I thought I must have been 8 and felt really panicky and then within about 20 mins I was pushing and 15 minutes later my baby was born. But it was very disheartening thinking I didnt know where my body was at. I believe my VE was correct I was just having transitional type contractions with my cervix not far behind! It just reinforces the question of how useful is a VE? Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Melissa SingerSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 2:04 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Maxine, This is my own personal experience with self examination. I'm a midwife of ten years working in a hospital setting (ie have done plenty of V.E's!!) and when I had my first baby just over a year ago I laboured at home from 11am until midnight when I did my own examination and I could have sworn I felt a 5 cm dilated cervix with bulging membranes. From there I decided to go to the birth centre which was 45min away. I had strong regular contractions but coping fairly well at home in the shower. My husband was asleep - typical! When I arrived the midwife examined me (I didn't tell her I had performed my own) and she said I had a posterior closed and uneffaced cervix. I was baffled aboutthe discrepancyand absolutely mortified I, as a midwife, had arrived to the birth centre so early. She suggested we go home so I did. I screamed all the way home, stayed there for 1/2hr anddecided if I had to go another 12hrs with this intense pain I needed drugs and drove the 45 mins back fighting the urge to go to the loo for a poo. Arrived and jumped in the bath a screamed out a baby girl. Much to the midwife's surprise! My husband told her the head was out. Anyway, I'm still not convinced her examination was right looking at the time line of events, but I was coping so well at home and when I was told I hadn't even started to efface yet I lost the plot! When I arrived back the midwife must have thought I still had ages to go because I didn't received one word from her, let alone
Re: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination?
Hi Maxine, This is my own personal experience with self examination. I'm a midwife of ten years working in a hospital setting (ie have done plenty of V.E's!!) and when I had my first baby just over a year ago I laboured at home from 11am until midnight when I did my own examination and I could have sworn I felt a 5 cm dilated cervix with bulging membranes. From there I decided to go to the birth centre which was 45min away. I had strong regular contractions but coping fairly well at home in the shower. My husband was asleep - typical! When I arrived the midwife examined me (I didn't tell her I had performed my own) and she said I had a posterior closed and uneffaced cervix. I was baffled aboutthe discrepancyand absolutely mortified I, as a midwife, had arrived to the birth centre so early. She suggested we go home so I did. I screamed all the way home, stayed there for 1/2hr anddecided if I had to go another 12hrs with this intense pain I needed drugs and drove the 45 mins back fighting the urge to go to the loo for a poo. Arrived and jumped in the bath a screamed out a baby girl. Much to the midwife's surprise! My husband told her the head was out. Anyway, I'm still not convinced her examination was right looking at the time line of events, but I was coping so well at home and when I was told I hadn't even started to efface yet I lost the plot! When I arrived back the midwife must have thought I still had ages to go because I didn't received one word from her, let alone reassuring, that it was all O.K and I was nearing the end. Melissa - Original Message - From: Maxine Wilson To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 8:00 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hi Julie an interesting concept and I have actually had this discussion before- Was it with you? I think as a student midwife that vaginal exams were one of the most difficult clinical skills to learn, because initially everything felt the same soft and squishy and it took a bit of experience to start to discern the different textures and landmarks. This may be different for other midwives though I may have been a slow learner!! Though it did seem pretty universal at the time I trained for it to be a skill that took some practice for us students ( oh poor women in teaching hospitals). Maybe teaching methods are different/better now. So my initial response is it may be hard for a woman to feel how dilated she is but the descent of the head may be easier for her to feel but not necessarily relevant if she was in early labour. I was a support person at a clients birth the other night and she spontaneously (ie noone suggested it) put her finger inside her vagina to feel where her baby was, she was in a bath and had slow progress when pushing so actually checked her own progress (descent of the head) and gave the midwife feedback. I am interested to see what others think. Maxine From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Julie ClarkeSent: Tuesday, 4 April 2006 6:51 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] any benefit to teaching women self examination? Hello. It seems that women admitted to labour wards in the latent phase of labour are more likely to have interventions, and up to 80% of women presenting can have admission delayed (Lauzon Hodnett 2001). I have sought information on how to determine the transitionfrom latent to active phase and it seems that themain physiological marker used in diagnosis is the dilatation of the cervix. I am wondering if there would be any benefit to teaching women self examination as a method of delaying admission. I would appreciate any feedback, comments, opinions,experiences. Thank you, Julie
Re: [ozmidwifery] PPH C/S
Maybe the thinking is should she have another large PPH there is already direct access to the uterus to clamp hemorrhaging vessels? It seems Obs are always suggesting a C/S for one reason or another. I think it is OK for her to say no, there are protocols and procedures to follow for anyone with high risk of PPH and usually if they are followed and she is birthing in a place where there is 24hr theatre immediately available it should be reasonable. But that said I don't know how large her previous pph's were, if she was compromise etc Melissa - Original Message - From: Nicole Carver To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 4:44 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] PPH C/S Women also have PPH's at caesarean. Not sure if c/s would be safer. Perhaps she should see another ob for a second opinion. Nicole. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBellySent: Saturday, April 01, 2006 4:27 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] PPH C/S Hello all, A woman on my forums has had two normal births of big babies 11lb3oz and 13lb5oz and had a PPH with both. Her Ob is now recommending a c/s with her third bub and wants a scan at 34 weeks as a deciding factor of this. She wants a normal birth is it okay just for her to say no without too much risk with PPH? Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Inducing labour
Hi Kim, Given that the baby has to come early, I'd be inclined to introduce non-pharmacological methods of cervical ripening first. For example, evening primrose oil, acupuncture, sexual intercourse plus many of the other herbal remedies. Evening primrose oil, in my opinion only, works wonderfully to ripen the cervix. Most importantly I would ask her to examine her feelings towards birth, natural versus caesarian and help her resolve any fears and anxieties. She also really needs to ask herself is she ready emotionally for this baby to be born. I have seen this work wonders on post dates women who want to avoid induction. Often the big thing for them is fear of change in family dynamics which they have avoided but once they face them and resolve that fearthey start labouring!! But as I've stated that I have only used this method on term/post dates women. Hope this is helpful, Melissa - Original Message - From: Kim Hunter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006 1:29 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Inducing labour Hi everyone, I'd like to turn the tables and take off my List Admin hat and you all for a little assistance. I have a friend at college who is due to give birth to her second child in mid April. She has had a very bad time with all day sickness for the entire pregnancy and is at a point where all she wants is to get it out and has almost got to the point of booking a caesarean. Her first child was born by caesarean, so this idea doesn't seem to phase her, although I do get a sense that she'd like to have a natural birth this time round. The catch is it has to come early. Can anyone offer any suggestions or way to naturally bring on labour, so that a caesarean can be avoided. I have asked some of my lecturers about homoeopathics and herbal remedies and they have made the following suggestions that help only after labour has started. Cauloph 200 hourly to initiate labour if contractions are weak. or herbal partus preparation 2.5ml of this taken every hour during labour: raspberry leaf cramp bark motherwort sqaw vine wild yam Jasmine essential oil to the temples to give strong contractions. Jasmine, Clary Sage and Lavender essential oils to the temples on for pain relief. I am still looking into this but would appreciate any help you can offer. Warm regards Kim your friendly listadmin --- Kim Hunter List Administration Birth International ACE Graphics and Associates in Childbirth Education http://www.birthinternational.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa
Hi Janet, I probably have seen about 10 unknown vasa previa post birth. All laboured without incident. Two of those werealso ARM's by doctors speeding up the birth process, and only realised oncethe placenta was delivered Very lucky doctors if you ask me! - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa Thanks, Kate. It seemed extreme to me but it's really hard to find studies on. This is in the international foundation's website. They have forums too. http://ivpf.org/ J - Original Message - From: Kate Reynolds To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa Hi Janet, Id be very surprised if the fatality rate is so high for undiagnosed vasa praevia. I have only ever seen one responsible for an FDIU at term when SROMd at home, and I have seen many placentae (?30 - 40) post-birth with massive vessels running through the membranes without incident. In many of those seen, the membranes tore all the way along side the edge of the vessel. I guess its a case of if we know about it, are we obliged to avoid any risk. I think the fatality stats are only relevant when the vessel actually tears but it would seem there are many that never rupture. I have also seen it successfully diagnosed once ruptured and saved by crash c/s on a couple of occasions (obviously in a tertiary referral delivery suite). Cheers, Kate
Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa
In one case where the doctor had performed a ARM, on checking the placenta the hole in the membranes was in between two vessels. The membrane was torn up to the vessels. http://pages.prodigy.net/nathanparis/vp.htm - Original Message - From: Ken WArd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 6:23 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa We are talking about blood vessels crossing in front of the baby's head, ie presenting. Blood vessels in the membranes aren't a big deal, but when they are presenting expect massive haemorrhage, as with placenta previa. Obliviously the cases cited were not vasa previa, or the vessel would have been torn -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Melissa SingerSent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 8:18 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa Hi Janet, I probably have seen about 10 unknown vasa previa post birth. All laboured without incident. Two of those werealso ARM's by doctors speeding up the birth process, and only realised oncethe placenta was delivered Very lucky doctors if you ask me! - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa Thanks, Kate. It seemed extreme to me but it's really hard to find studies on. This is in the international foundation's website. They have forums too. http://ivpf.org/ J - Original Message - From: Kate Reynolds To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] vasa previa Hi Janet, Id be very surprised if the fatality rate is so high for undiagnosed vasa praevia. I have only ever seen one responsible for an FDIU at term when SROMd at home, and I have seen many placentae (?30 - 40) post-birth with massive vessels running through the membranes without incident. In many of those seen, the membranes tore all the way along side the edge of the vessel. I guess its a case of if we know about it, are we obliged to avoid any risk. I think the fatality stats are only relevant when the vessel actually tears but it would seem there are many that never rupture. I have also seen it successfully diagnosed once ruptured and saved by crash c/s on a couple of occasions (obviously in a tertiary referral delivery suite). Cheers, Kate
Re: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives
Hi Alese, was referring to WA Melissa - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives As well, there are limited number of positions for NO2 so that many midwives who is able to care for complex care patients are restricted to NO1 positions purely because one does not get the position and hence pay, on ability but on the number of such positions avialable. Cheers Judy --- B G [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Level 2 or Clinical Nurse (now known as Nursing Officer 2) midwives do not have to be shift coordinators. The position description (generic) primarily refers to a midwife (nurse) who is able to care for complex care clients. Unfortunately it is Queensland Health and managers who have added that aspect of co-ordinating shifts AND taking complex patient load AND having portfolio's as you describe. this is of course in your own time as there is never anytime allocated for off-line time to do these portfolio's If you look at the Nurses Award Qld and MX170 you will find full details of generic position descriptions. In our organisation NO1's co-ordinate as well even with a NO2 on the same shift. They actually get more money for it as it incorporates a 'in charge of shift allowance' NO2's don't get this. They also work in all areas you describe as these are not restricted to NO2's. I do not have on my name badge Clinical Nurse just Midwife. It is hoped with Peter Forster's review published 30/9 this whole workload and off-line time will be reviewed. Midwives who work in BC have their salary averaged (all penalties) and are paid at NO2 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alese Koziol Sent: Tuesday, 1 November 2005 5:20 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives Thanks for the clarification Melissa, which state are you referring to? - Original Message - From: Melissa Singer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives Hi Alese, Level 2 midwife (in a ward hospital setting) is the senior midwife on that shift who is responsible for the co-ordination of the shift as well as being a resource person for level 1 midwives. There is usually at least one on per shift. They also have portfolio's such as clinical indicators, best practice, equip etc. Other level 2 midwives are usually early discharge home visiting midwives, staff development midwives, midwives responsible for the co-ordination of ANC, childbirth classes and such. Midwives who work independently in birth centers here are also level 2's. Hope that helps Melissa - Original Message - From: Alese mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Koziol To: ozmidwifery mailto:ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives Dear list Amongst the discussions recently there was mention of a 'level 2 midwife'. Could someone please enlighten me... which state was this terminology used for and what exactly is a level 2 midwife? Have a medico trying to bully us into using a policy which he has obviously 'borrowed' which also uses this terminology. It is not used in Victoria. Many thanks in anticipation Alesa Alesa Koziol Clinical Midwifery Educator Melbourne Do you Yahoo!? Find a local business fast with Yahoo! Local Search http://au.local.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives
Hi Alese, Level 2 midwife (in a ward hospital setting) is the senior midwife on that shift who is responsible for the co-ordination of the shift as well as being a resource person for level 1 midwives. There is usually at least one on per shift. They also have portfolio's such as clinical indicators, best practice, equip etc. Other level 2 midwives are usually early discharge home visiting midwives, staff development midwives, midwives responsible for the co-ordination of ANC, childbirth classes and such. Midwives who work independently in birth centers here are also level 2's. Hope that helps Melissa - Original Message - From: Alese Koziol To: ozmidwifery Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:47 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] level 2 midwives Dear list Amongst the discussions recently there was mention of a 'level 2 midwife'. Could someone please enlighten me... which state was this terminology used for and what exactly is a level 2 midwife? Have a medico trying to bully us into using a policy which he has obviously 'borrowed' which also uses this terminology. It is not used in Victoria. Many thanks in anticipation Alesa Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne
Re: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought
I have the book on my shelf and it is interesting reading. I agree everyone should have a copy. Melissa - Original Message - From: Vedrana Valčić [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 1:18 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Thank you, Andrea! Vedrana -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrea Robertson Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:11 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Just a thought Hello Vedrana, Marsden has written many articles -we have some on our website that you will find interesting. His book Pursuing the Birth Machine describes how the WHO came around to thinking that the obstetric model of care needed to be changed and the consensus meeting that established the standards of care set down by the WHO. His conversion to midwifery came about primarily through personal contact with midwives, mainly in Europe. As an epidemiologist he could see the sense in what they were saying and he set out to prove this through research etc. It is a great read, and has all the references etc that underpin the recommendations. As the publisher of Pursuing the Birth Machine (it is 10 years old now) we have a few copies left at a very good price. it is a book that everyone should have on their shelf, not only because of its now historical importance but also because the arguments are very eloquently put - a good example of how to tackle these arguments yourselves. More details are available here: http://www.acegraphics.com.au/product/ace/bk200.html Regards, Andrea At 07:52 PM 9/09/2005, you wrote: Marsden Wagner talks convincingly about his conversion. Where can I read about that? Vedrana - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[no subject]
Hi all, I thought I'd share with you a ridiculous scenerio which happened at my work today. A woman who was having her fourth baby, three previous being vaginal births and one of which was a uncomplicated vaginal breech birth was booked for her first ELUSC for breech at 38 weeks. Upon looking through the notes the only options that were documented as being offered to her were C/S or "risky ECV". This baby was previously cephalic until 33/40, with only her last two visits showing a non engaged breech presentation. I surely hope they palpated her before performing the C/S today. Whats evenmore ridiculous is that she had her previous babies at our hospital under the same obstetricians as today. Our obstetricians are very experienced and in the past routinely did vaginal breech births, with a couple still doing them. This poor lady had simply gone to the wrong clinic day and seen the wrong obstetrician for her! Her other three babies were all born within the last five years! Times are changing fast!
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:
Hi Sue,
Couldn't but wonder what would of happened if she
went to Dr W clinic day?
- Original Message -
From:
Susan
Cudlipp
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:38
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:
Hi Melissa (only just worked out the surname
:-))
Yes, happened today - how sad.
Also today we saw a multi 10 wks post partum with
RPOC post emergency C/S for breech at 36 weeks. This particular lady had
vaginal breech with no.1, I delivered no 2 (SVD), and then, as you say - came
into labour on 'the wrong day' with no 3!
There have been several incidents of what would 5
years ago been considered to be 'good' breech presentations in multis, being
rushed off to theatre in established labour, ( I remember one who was at least
7cms) justified by that accursed so-called breech trial! Really
sad how the skills to deliver well positioned breech births are no longer
taught or used.
Did anyone else catch the 7 news last night? A
small story on a 23 week bub who had done very well, however they did state
that she had been one of twins, the other having died (or been terminated??
due to complications - sorry, a bit vague on that bit, kids making noise at
the time)
BUT the bit I did catch was that she had had to
have a C/S at 23 weeks because the 'placenta was growing through a previous
C/S scar'
I find it very interesting to read the recent
VBAC recommendations and guidelines given to women -states
clearlythat VBAC is in many cases preferable to repeat C/S - so why are
they so keen to do the C/S in the first place
Sue
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing"Edmund Burke
- Original Message -
From:
Melissa Singer
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:22
PM
Hi all,
I thought I'd share with you a ridiculous
scenerio which happened at my work today. A woman who was having her
fourth baby, three previous being vaginal births and one of which was a
uncomplicated vaginal breech birth was booked for her first ELUSC for breech
at 38 weeks. Upon looking through the notes the only options that were
documented as being offered to her were C/S or "risky ECV".
This baby was previously cephalic until 33/40,
with only her last two visits showing a non engaged breech
presentation. I surely hope they palpated her before performing the
C/S today.
Whats evenmore ridiculous is that she had
her previous babies at our hospital under the same obstetricians as
today. Our obstetricians are very experienced and in the past
routinely did vaginal breech births, with a couple still doing them.
This poor lady had simply gone to the wrong clinic day and seen the wrong
obstetrician for her!
Her other three babies were all born within the
last five years!
Times are changing fast!
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Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.17/85 - Release
Date: 30/08/2005
Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video
Judy, Can I have a copy too? [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks! - Original Message - From: Päivi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video Yes please, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you : ) Any more takers for this one??? It will take a while for me on my slow line to upload. I will try to get on line about lunch time tomorrow to send to those who say. Cheers Judy --- Kate /or Nick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ditto please Kate [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] BF video Judy can you send it to me? Thank you [EMAIL PROTECTED] Denise Hynd Let us support one another, not just in philosophy but in action, for the sake of freedom for all women to choose exactly how and by whom, if by anyone, our bodies will be handled. - Linda Hes - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] BF video I have just been sent a hilarious video (2MB). Mum doing a yoga handstand, baby crawling and knows where the good stuff comes from... Need I say more. What a laugh. On a par with one of my bellydance mates who is still BF a 2 yr old. 10 min prior to performance it was a loud Titta, Mum, Titta and when side one was finished Other side Mum, other side. God love 'em. Cheers Judy --- - Do you Yahoo!? Messenger 7.0: Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. You could win a holiday to see them! --- - No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24/08/2005 Do you Yahoo!? Make free PC-to-PC calls to your friends overseas. You could win a holiday to see them! http://au.docs.yahoo.com/promotions/messenger/ -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24/08/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwives clinic
I think midwives clinics (in hospitals) are invaluable in restoring women's confidence in midwives as the primary care-giver in labour and birth. Women (and their supports) who primarily see doctors in their pregnacy often are always asking when's the doctor coming? Unfortunately going to see a doctor is often associated with an abnormal event therefore pregnancy and birth is as well. Having midwives clinics, even if the caregiver's in labour are different, helps foster a sense of normalcy for the women. Were I work I have seen an enormous shift in this attitude with the women and their families as antenatal care who shifted from all obstetric care to a mixture of both with most antenatal care by the midwife. Melissa - Original Message - From: Ken WArd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 4:58 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Midwives clinic Even if they do see different midwives during the pregnancy, it still helps when they come in. Having worked in small units I know that there are only so many staff to meet. In my last position women could ask for a specific midwife to 'go on call' for them. Most of the women were happy to have who ever was on. Of course there was a few who requested NOT to have certain midwives, this also catered for. Our -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrea Quanchi Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2005 2:28 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwives clinic Alan are you offering continuity of carer or an alternative to the obs and then they still get a different midwife in labour. In Echuca they started a midwife clinic that offers shared care b/w the GP/obs and the midwife clinic but it in fact means that instead of having their antenatal care by one person they now have it by at least three. And then they just get who ever in labour as well. If you are offering continuity of carer then this is what you can sell and it will be attractive to the women. Otherwise sell the things you are offering that they dont get from the Ob. On time appointments, longer appointments etc. In the country the bush telegraph is still the best source of information so get women talking about it and a mail out to known pregnant women, notices or poters in child care centres, kindergartens etc saying 'Do you know someone who is pregnant tell them about the new choices that they have Good luck but keep pushing for a caseload if you dont have one its great ANdrea Quanchi On 07/08/2005, at 11:16 AM, Alan Rooney wrote: Advice needed I work in a small hospital in western NSW and we are about to start a Midwives clinic. The 2 obs in town are supporting us in this venture but I need some suggestions on how to inform the women of the town why they should choose the Midwives clinic and not visit the obs surgery, but I would like to do this without offending the obs. I would like to put this information in a pamphlet in all the Docs surgeries in the town. Any ideas would be appreciated. Also if anyone has research articles on this subject I would appreciate them. off list email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Alan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Thrush Treatment
Hi Jo, I hae my first baby 11 months ago and had a easy time with breastfeeding - no cracked grazed nipples. She attached easily right from the first feed. After about two weeks I developed pain deep in my right breast. It woke me up at night with a hot stabbing pain. It felt like someone had shoved a fire poker in their and then twisted it around. I have never experienced this intensity of pain before. Still my nipples looked fine and unchanged. I started to get a feeling of glass shards passing through the ducts as my breast was filling and emptying. My baby also developed thrush in her mouth after I started experiencing this. I tried the dactarin gel for 3 weeks for myself and the baby with no improvement. I went to the GP as I wasn't sleeping very much due to the pain and of course the new bub. Fortunately she was very sympathetic and gave me a script for oral systemic Nilstat. This worked a treat! She said that the general consensus in the medical field was thrush in ducts was a myth but she was a bit dubious of this as she actually listened to what the women were telling her. My GP and myself are still in the dark as to how I got thrush in the ducts, but it must of been because the treatment was so effective. I hope this is helpful to you because I certainly couldn't have lived with it because it was so painful. Melissa - Original Message - From: JoFromOz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 11:33 AM Subject: spam: [ozmidwifery] Thrush Treatment ... I still have thrush. We've been treating for the last 3 weeks, and it seems to have (?mostly) gone from my actual nipples, but it is still definitely in my ducts. I am having trouble getting a prescription for Fluconazole (Diflucan) as is recommended, as the drug isn't actually authorised for breastfeeding. It is needed on an authority script because it's hundreds of dollars. I got a breastmilk sample sent off the other day to try to culture the candida, but due to the properties in BM, I doubt it will show up anything. I read on Dr Hale's site that he doesn't actually believe in ductal thrush, and says this: Some of us in this field are wondering if this intense pain could be neuritis or neuopathic in origin, following nipple trauma of some sort. But no one really understands the origin of this pain. So, should I just suck it up and get on with it, or follow up on the diflucan? From what I've read, the symptoms I have are from thrush: Deep breast pain with onset towards the end of a feed or beginning after a feed and lasting up to an hour (or more at times); Worse at night; sometimes radiates into my sternum. One nipple is intact and has been for WEEKS now, but at night it does hurt to feed more. The other nipple that was almost missing has come back and is almost healed. It too, hurts more at night, sometimes burning after a feed (both of them) for a good 1/2 hour. Does anyone have any experience with this? MM sent me some info saying that Diflucan is the drug of choice for this, but if I can't get it prescribed because it's not authorised, is there any other choice apart from living with it? Thanks :) Jo (mum to Will, 10 weeks old today) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] intermittent auscultation
So true Sue!! - hung out to dry then burnt at the stake! - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] intermittent auscultation This is so true. We constantly have to justify our belief in the natural process of birth and should a mishap happen in midwifery care, the midwife is all but burnt at the stake. By contrast, most hospitals have regular mortality meetings to discuss medical mishaps, these are in house and only for the purpose of medicos discussing amongst themselves. The results are not for sharing with midwives or any other interested parties. I often wonder why it is that so much utter stupidity becomes common practice - not only in medical circles - and yet the common sense approach is ignored, riduculed or just not taken seriously. Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:33 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] intermittent auscultation I notice that it is expected that Midwives base their practice on evidence research. It would appear on the other hand that the medical profession are able to practice on whatever they believe. They do not feel obliged to justify their preference or practice. Why is this so? Why are midwives always feeling they must justify themselves? Why do you allow it ? Who in fact are we accountable to in real life? Our clients, ourselves our peers only ? Or ..?? Brenda - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 11:15 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] intermittent auscultation Pete, the only problem is that the somebodies, in positions of power, have set a standard that a reasonable midwife has to adhere to, or suffer the consequences if there is an adverse outcome, ie, a dead or compromised baby. Also, when one is employed by the Govt. there is an expectation that the standard will be adhered to. There was not extensive trials or even large scale retrospective research to compare 1/2 hrly or 1/4 hrly to continuous EFM. Unfortunately, common sense does not prevail.When we don't have the midwifery research knowledge to back it up, we have no other choice. I wish it were otherwise, MM se- d-oes -n--Original Message- Sally I agree with what both you and Gloria are saying, with a low risk women term and all progressing well in labour where is the evidence to support any auscultation, I also believe that it can he horribly invasive and could easily be construed as intervention. Surely as professionals we can use our skills to make the call on whether auscultation is needed or not. I also believe that there can be a lot of angst built up over listening too often in what in most situations is the normal physiology of 2nd stage. yours in midwifery pete malavisi On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:24:32 +0800, Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: OK. What the Nice Guideline have based the bulk of their guideline on are the following three studies. All of these studies have randomized high and low risk pregnancies. I would like to propose that the auscultation intervals set are reflective of a lack of risk screening. I would like to us think about is whether it is appropriate to try to translate these auscultation interval to a low risk client group?? What do other people thinks?? Efficacy and safety of intrapartum electronic fetal monitoring: an update SB Thacker, DF Stroup, and HB Peterson STUDY SELECTION: Our search identified 12 published RCTs addressing the efficacy and safety of EFM; no unpublished studies were found. The studies included 58,855 pregnant women and their 59,324 infants in both high- and low-risk pregnancies from ten clinical centers in the United States, Europe, Australia, and Africa. DATA Vintzileos, A. M. et al. 1993. A randomized trial of intrapartum electronic fetal heart rate monitoring versus intermittent auscultation. Obstetrics Gynecology 81:899-907. METHODS: The study was conducted simultaneously at two university hospitals in Athens, Greece (Alexandra and Marika Iliadi Hospitals) from October 1, 1990 to June 30, 1991. All patients with singleton living fetuses and gestational ages of 26 weeks or greater were eligible for inclusion. The participants were assigned to continuous EFM or intermittent auscultation based on the flip of a coin. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit
Re: [ozmidwifery] triplet birth
Hi Wendy, I have onlybeen present at 26week triplet vaginal birth about 6 years ago. The triplets obviously needed nursery time and ventilation but no complicationsduringthe actual birth process. Surely some of the risks (cord involvementetc) with vaginal triplet birth are the same preterm or term? Thanks Melissa - Original Message - From: wendy hoey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:42 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] triplet birth Hi all, have been lurking fora while, love the interesting discussions, thankyou.I'm a married mum of two and hospital midwife by convenience. Anyway, at work last week a woman came in at 32 weeks , triplets, in good labour at 7 cm, all head down, off to her c/s asplanned with a huge amount of fuss, mum stressed out to the max. Iunderstand all the risk factors and the reasons for a c/s ( prem as well)just wondered if anyone out there has been at a triplet vaginalbirth in Australia? Despite the risks I just had thisbig gut feeling that everything would have been all right. The babies were all fine except the third who needed a bit of CPAP once they got into the nursery. My Auntie had a vaginal birth of triplets in a community hospital in Perth in 1979, she's vague on the details but all was OK with the boys. thanks Wendy.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay
Gloria, No pulsating cord, HR 1, relex 1, colour 1? Active resuscitation commenced at birth. Melissa - Original Message - From: Gloria Lemay To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay did you have a pulsing cord, Melissa? what did the baby get 3 for at one min? Gloria - Original Message - From: Melissa Singer To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Last week I attended a birth with mentum anterior (diagnosed on view). Head was born then 3 minutes later the rest of the baby. Apgars 3, 5, 7, 7. Wt 4.7kgs, peri intact. Why were the apgars at birth so low (no heart rate at all when born) and the fetal heart rate had been fine during her rapid labour and second sage and some baby's sit there for seven minutes without a problem? Melissa - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Well it must have been the moon then last Friday my colleague and I went to see a woman for an antenatal appt, all well at 39 weeks, and then 30 minutes later SROM while we were on our way to the next appt, 40 minutes of labour, hubby rushing through the door, no equipment, kids scissors boiling in a pot on the stove, cord ties thrown together with embroidery thread, baby born in the spa! Lovely, but what a rush for all! Tania x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria LemaySent: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 3:25 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Congratulations, Mary! Last Thurs night I attended a face presentation where the little mentum anterior face/head just sat there turning purple for way longer than I needed. Same thing, tincture of time and it rotated and squooshed into Dad's hands with only 1/2 inch tear. That must have been some crazy midwife moon! Gloria - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Hi Gloria, remember I said I would ask the mother about posting her C/S Lotus Placenta on Midwifery Today? She said it is fine with her.// Re the delay with the head before birth of the body? Lieve said it might be the moon? A week ago I was 2nd midwife at a lovely home waterbirth and guess what? Babys head was born and 7 minutes later the body was born with the next available contraction. It did seem like a long time and the primary midwife and I had to hold our mouths shut so we wouldnt do the just give a little push instruction. All well. No need to do anything except talk to the baby. Cheers, MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay
Last week I attended a birth with mentum anterior (diagnosed on view). Head was born then 3 minutes later the rest of the baby. Apgars 3, 5, 7, 7. Wt 4.7kgs, peri intact. Why were the apgars at birth so low (no heart rate at all when born) and the fetal heart rate had been fine during her rapid labour and second sage and some baby's sit there for seven minutes without a problem? Melissa - Original Message - From: Tania Smallwood To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:53 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Well it must have been the moon then last Friday my colleague and I went to see a woman for an antenatal appt, all well at 39 weeks, and then 30 minutes later SROM while we were on our way to the next appt, 40 minutes of labour, hubby rushing through the door, no equipment, kids scissors boiling in a pot on the stove, cord ties thrown together with embroidery thread, baby born in the spa! Lovely, but what a rush for all! Tania x From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Gloria LemaySent: Tuesday, 19 July 2005 3:25 AMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Congratulations, Mary! Last Thurs night I attended a face presentation where the little mentum anterior face/head just sat there turning purple for way longer than I needed. Same thing, tincture of time and it rotated and squooshed into Dad's hands with only 1/2 inch tear. That must have been some crazy midwife moon! Gloria - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 5:24 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Things/g. Lemay Hi Gloria, remember I said I would ask the mother about posting her C/S Lotus Placenta on Midwifery Today? She said it is fine with her.// Re the delay with the head before birth of the body? Lieve said it might be the moon? A week ago I was 2nd midwife at a lovely home waterbirth and guess what? Babys head was born and 7 minutes later the body was born with the next available contraction. It did seem like a long time and the primary midwife and I had to hold our mouths shut so we wouldnt do the just give a little push instruction. All well. No need to do anything except talk to the baby. Cheers, MM
[ozmidwifery] Primary midwife positions for those interested
For anyone out there who has dreamt of working within a primary midwifery model, here's your chance. Canberra Midwifery Program is based at the Birth Centre at Canberra Hospital and provides women with one-to-one midwifery care. Midwives work within groups of 3 or 4 to provide support and back up for each other and caseload of 40 women/year per FTE (Part time is definitely an option). All midwives working on the program are paid as level 2 year 5, ends up about $75000 after allowances at present. We have been providing this model of care to women for 3 years now and have ironed out alot of the teething problems that come with something new. We have high satisfaction rates (and good outcomes) for our women, high satisfaction rates for midwives and are looking for others to come and be happy with us. If you are interested or just want to know more, give Alison Chandra a call at the Birth Centre on 02 62443169
[ozmidwifery] Primary midwife positions for those interested
For anyone out there who has dreamt of working within a primary midwifery model, here's your chance. Canberra Midwifery Program is based at the Birth Centre at Canberra Hospital and provides women with one-to-one midwifery care. Midwives work within groups of 3 or 4 to provide support and back up for each other and caseload of 40 women/year per FTE (Part time is definitely an option). All midwives working on the program are paid as level 2 year 5, ends up about $75000 after allowances at present. We have been providing this model of care to women for 3 years now and have ironed out alot of the teething problems that come with something new. We have high satisfaction rates (and good outcomes) for our women, high satisfaction rates for midwives and are looking for others to come and be happy with us. If you are interested or just want to know more, give Alison Chandra a call at the Birth Centre on 02 62443169 Cheers, Melissa Pearce
Re: [ozmidwifery] birthcentre vbacs
Sorry everyone - I meant to reply to a friend, but replied to this email instead :) -Original Message-From: Melissa [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 11:52Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birthcentre vbacs I'm off to do some shopping ... hope your day gets better :) -Original Message-From: Jessica Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: ozmid [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 11:24Subject: [ozmidwifery] birthcentre vbacs hello all! was wondering if anyone could help me out, im looking for articles, hospital policies, anything at all related to vbacs in birthing centres[if not bc, then hospitals in general is fine, and any homebirth info would also be useful!], why we cant have them/can/why we should etc! thanking you in advance! jess.
[ozmidwifery] CROSS POST : signing off for a while
Title: CROSS POST : signing off for a while Well - I'm going off-air for a while...and I will miss you all. I have decided I need to commit more time to the lifestyle changes needed to get my fertility back on track. I have only had one period in the last year, and I am feeling the strain physically and emotionally, as my body is being flung all over the place by rampant hormones...and I am grieving at the possibility of no more babies. Birthtalk will still be taking place, and you can always contact me on my private address. I wish you all the best, and thank you for everything you are doing to empower women as they birth. Hopefully one day I will be of them. -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth
Re: [ozmidwifery] mums community - Melbourne
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] mums community - Melbourne Pinky - can I fly down to Melbourne every week for this? I am green with envy! Hey - maybe I can start up one here in Brisbane! -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth -- From: Pinky McKay [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] mums community - Melbourne Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:55 AM A posting from my website forum - any Melbourne mums who are interested??or others who would like to comment on the forum -encouragement etc. Pinky www.pinky-mychild http://www.pinky-mychild Hi Mums dads and tots! (I hope it is ok for me to post a plea to any mums in Melbourne) Im a mum, living in Melbourne, Doncaster right now (just moved back from the US for 4 years) and have a son, Joshua (nearly 3). I am interested in meeting regularly with women,men and their kids for community and fun for us and our kids. I started a similar group over 2 years ago and it was fantastic. We met, weekly, often more after we all got to know each other and bonds formed and did things that we enjoyed. Our understanding was/is that if the parents are engaged in useful work or really engaging what they want, this is best for the kids and not as child centred. We met at homes, had cookfest days were we cooked or/and cleaned together,held garage sales and raised money for each other, we met at beaches, parks and had all day picnics etc. Our kids got to know each other as well. Most if not all of us, breastfed our kids (I still do), co-slept and treated our children with dignity and respect. Many parents (myself included) were pretty radical advocates of home or unschooling as well. It was not a group of mainstream style parenting (forgive me I cant think of a better word!) We fostered many of the principles of The Continuum Concept (see the webite its fantastic) and really believed in the wisdom and love of our children. We trust them. Implicitly. If any of this speaks to you, please email me with a brief intro and Ill answer asap. Many thanks, Noula Austin [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] Weekend Australian
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Weekend Australian Hi, Lynne - yes, saw the article (and have it online, if anyone wants it). That Dr Molloy...g. He's the one who , in an article in the C Mail, gave his reason for the increase in the cs rate in Aus...women's pelvises are getting smaller! Of course - easy answer! I wrote a rather sarastic reply to the courier mail about that quote. -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth -- From: Philip Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Weekend Australian Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:10 AM Lynne, Having gone through a caesarian myself and finding the whole experience and the next six weeks very painful I would like to point out that it is neither fuss-free, easy or attractive. I would have preferred a vaginal birth but was told it was impossible due to CPD. Maybe, the doctor concerned should have major abdominal surgery and see if he thinks it is easy, attractive and fuss-free afterwards! Regards, Christine Hayes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Weekend Australian Did anyone happen to read the article in yesterday's Australian? Another blatant sales pitch promoting caesarean birth - incredibly one sided and almost all quotes by one particular dr who really seems to think they (caesars) are the way to go! He made it sound such an attractive, fuss-free easy option - why would anyone choose anything else? Lets get some balanced journalism out there (is there such a thing?)
[ozmidwifery] crosspost : Birthtalk February Meeting!
Title: crosspost : Birthtalk February Meeting! We would like to invite you to a meeting of birthtalk Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth on Tuesday, Feburary 18th. February's Topic : Assessing Our Needs And How They Fit Within Our Maternal Health System We will offer some insights into the functioning of our Health System so women can better assess their needs holistically. We will discuss ways of determining how best to get these needs met for each individual. We will also invite women who have birthed within our Maternal Health System to share their story, and discuss how they felt their needs were met, and any wisdom they haved gained in hindsight. Come meet Holly's little one! Holly, who had a beautiful vbac homebirth two weeks ago, will be bringing her gorgeous little person for us to meet! We can't wait to hear her birth story! Plus, at the end of our session, you are all welcome to stay for a short Blessingway for Becky, who is due in March. Essentially, this is a way for us to let her know that we are thinking of her and supporting her as she gets close to meeting her little one, by offering her messages of encouragement, support and affirmation of her strength and courage. We would love it if you could come - the details are below. And please feel free to invite anyone you feel would benefit from our group. - everyone is welcome. Date : Tuesday, February 18th Time : 7:30pm - 9:30pm (followed by a short Blessingway) Venue : Toowong Rehabilitation Centre, 13 Morley St, Toowong Details : a lit parking area is available under the building Coffee and Tea are available birthtalk aims to: - provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth - to empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about birth and birthing options - provide a support network for women who are healing from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a difficult previous birth - to encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. Debby : ph 3379 7424 Karen : ph 3720 1101 Melissa : ph 3356 7449 email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[ozmidwifery] signing off till Tu
We are off to Sunny Melbourne till tuesday, so I am signing off so my Inbox doesn't collapse! See you all then! -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] End of Caseload at The Angliss
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] End of Caseload at The Angliss Dawn - not sure if this is what you are looking for, but I received team midwifery care at the RHW at Randwick's Birth Centre...and found it to be a flawed system of care. And ended up with a c/sec. I would be happy to outline why, as a consumer, I would not accept team care again. I am not quite sure if this is the model of care you meant (ie a team of midwives share a group of women and you try and make your appts at diff times so you get to meet all the midwives in the team. Then the midwife you get on the nite you go into labour will hopefully be one you've met. And she is also responsible for however many other women are in the Birth Centre at the same time.) LEt me know if I can help you, -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth -- From: Dawn Worgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] End of Caseload at The Angliss Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 8:45 AM With frustration and disapointment I write to tell you our wonderful case load model is to end at the end of september when our current clients have had their babies.It will have been going for 5 years by then and this sad outcome was not unexpected.The rationalle is to be able to offer somthing like caseload (which no one desputes is the best model) in a diluted form to all women instead of the elite few!! but nothing in the way of a new model is yet proposed negotiations between hospital, Doctors and Midwives are yet to begin, and a team aproach is whats being put forward, Hence my long winded email, can those of you in teams please let me know the good and bad points you have found so that I can be informed and pass comments on to those who need to know when setting up a new team modelof care. Thankyou Dawn
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthtalk's First Birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthtalk's First Birth *sob* Tina...that made me cry! -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birthtalk's First Birth Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 9:35 PM Hello Melissa and the women of 'birthtalk'. I was absolutely thrilled to read Holly's story Melissa, thank you and Holly for sharing it here on ozmid.it serves to inspire all of us what can be gained if we trust and empower women to reclaim their belief in their bodies to birth their babies. My sincerest congratulations to all involvedbut most of all to the wonderful women of 'birthtalk'may you all keep talking, sharing, supporting and encouraging each other. Power to the women!!! Yours in birth, Tina Pettigrew. B Mid Student Aust. Catholic University. Melb.
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth Tonight (tues 4th) is a Healing From Birth meeting. On Feb 18th is a Birthtalk Forum, with the topic : Getting Your Needs Met In Our Maternal Health System. You are more than welcome to attend! Sorry for brief email : cranky toddler at my arm! -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth -- From: Mrs joanne m fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 8:07 AM When is your next get-to-gether Melissa? Cheers, Joanne. - Original Message - From: rem melissa bruijn mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 4:30 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth Hi, Kim! Two friends (one who is a midwife and childbirth educator) and I facilitate a group in Brisbane called Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth. We have about 10 women currently attending our Forums and Healing From Birth meetings. At least 4-5 of these women are planning homebirths. We would be glad to have a chat to you anytime: I will include more info about Birthtalk at the end of this email. You will also find information on the Home Midwifery Association (HMA) website at www.homebirth.org.au. They have a list of homebirth midwives in the Bris, Sunshine and Gold coast areas. There are a few out there...you just have to know where to find them!! And when you do : they are lovely people...well, the ones I've met are, anyway! THe HMA also have meetings every fortnight at Windsor in Bris, where you can meet lots of other homebirth mums and ask heaps of Q's. Also see the other email I am posting to Ozmid today : about our first Birthtalk mum to have her baby : a beautiful vbac (vaginal birth after caesarean) homebirth! And we have women due every month up to July, so far. Best of luck, and feel free to call anytime. -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth Birthtalk presents two Groups for women, meeting at Toowong in Brisbane on a monthly basis. We hope to empower women by providing access to current literature information about birth, as well as birthing options in the Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast area. In both our groups, we encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. Birthtalk Forum is a series of forums for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth. This Forum is for pregnant women, and any woman passionate about Birth. Women are invited to talk to mothers who have already birthed babies and learn from each woman's experience. Each month presents a different Topic to be discussed , however, individual concerns and questions are always welcome. Healing From Birth Support Group : through this group, we aim to provide a support network for women who are healing emotionally from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a difficult previous birth . It is a venue for women to debrief share in a safe environment. Women can talk to other mothers and share ideas to support each other. This group may be of benefit to women recovering emotionally from a Caesarean birth or a difficult or disappointing vaginal delivery. We at Birthtalk believe that the birthing process is an important rite of passage allowing for women's personal growth. A woman's experience of the birthing process, whether positive, negative or indifferent, is what she will carry into motherhood, as a source of strength or as a challenge. This is why Birthtalk was formed : because we believe that women are entitled to have access to knowledge that will enable them to make the best possible birthing choices for themselves and their babies , and perhaps further understand their past birth experiences. birthtalk aims to: - provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth - to empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about birth and birthing options - provide a support network for women who are healing from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a difficult previous birth - to encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. Birthtalk is facilitated by a group of mothers, including a midwife and childbirth educator, who saw a need for a Forum such as this. Debby : ph 3379 7424 Karen : ph 3720 1101 Melissa : ph 3356 7449 email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Judy Waller mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth hi. i'm in bayside brisbane area and looking for a midwife to deliver my first child. I wish to avoid hospital birth and I don't know whether midwifes do homebirths in Australia due to insurance. can
Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] homebirth Hi, Kim! Two friends (one who is a midwife and childbirth educator) and I facilitate a group in Brisbane called Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth. We have about 10 women currently attending our Forums and Healing From Birth meetings. At least 4-5 of these women are planning homebirths. We would be glad to have a chat to you anytime: I will include more info about Birthtalk at the end of this email. You will also find information on the Home Midwifery Association (HMA) website at www.homebirth.org.au. They have a list of homebirth midwives in the Bris, Sunshine and Gold coast areas. There are a few out there...you just have to know where to find them!! And when you do : they are lovely people...well, the ones I've met are, anyway! THe HMA also have meetings every fortnight at Windsor in Bris, where you can meet lots of other homebirth mums and ask heaps of Q's. Also see the other email I am posting to Ozmid today : about our first Birthtalk mum to have her baby : a beautiful vbac (vaginal birth after caesarean) homebirth! And we have women due every month up to July, so far. Best of luck, and feel free to call anytime. -- Melissa Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth Birthtalk presents two Groups for women, meeting at Toowong in Brisbane on a monthly basis. We hope to empower women by providing access to current literature information about birth, as well as birthing options in the Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast area. In both our groups, we encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. Birthtalk Forum is a series of forums for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth. This Forum is for pregnant women, and any woman passionate about Birth. Women are invited to talk to mothers who have already birthed babies and learn from each woman's experience. Each month presents a different Topic to be discussed , however, individual concerns and questions are always welcome. Healing From Birth Support Group : through this group, we aim to provide a support network for women who are healing emotionally from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a difficult previous birth . It is a venue for women to debrief share in a safe environment. Women can talk to other mothers and share ideas to support each other. This group may be of benefit to women recovering emotionally from a Caesarean birth or a difficult or disappointing vaginal delivery. We at Birthtalk believe that the birthing process is an important rite of passage allowing for women's personal growth. A woman's experience of the birthing process, whether positive, negative or indifferent, is what she will carry into motherhood, as a source of strength or as a challenge. This is why Birthtalk was formed : because we believe that women are entitled to have access to knowledge that will enable them to make the best possible birthing choices for themselves and their babies , and perhaps further understand their past birth experiences. birthtalk aims to: - provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth - to empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about birth and birthing options - provide a support network for women who are healing from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a difficult previous birth - to encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. Birthtalk is facilitated by a group of mothers, including a midwife and childbirth educator, who saw a need for a Forum such as this. Debby : ph 3379 7424 Karen : ph 3720 1101 Melissa : ph 3356 7449 email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Judy Waller mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 6:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] homebirth hi. i'm in bayside brisbane area and looking for a midwife to deliver my first child. I wish to avoid hospital birth and I don't know whether midwifes do homebirths in Australia due to insurance. can anyone give me a contact, even if it's somewhere to start, please? thanks, kim.
Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Hi, Julie...there is a lot of info on the Birthlove website (www.birthlove.com). It is a pay site - not v expensive, and SO worthwhile - heaps of info on it. Leilah McCracken, who runs it, has 8 kids : the first 5 hospital births, incl one c/sec, and the rest home births (last one unassisted). I also think Sarah Buckley has done some articles about it...in fact I think it is her articles on the Birthlove website. Hope that helps, Melissa (who is supposed to have unsubscribed to Ozmid but was just taking one last peak!) -- From: Julie Garratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] lotus birth Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 1:25 PM Hi fellow listers, Where can I find information on Lotus Birth? is there any dangers? what are the implications for the mother/child? I've heard of them and I'd love some more info. Sounds really spiritual and karmic. Thankyou for yet again feeding my curiosity. Julie'', Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while Thanks, Aviva! (ok, ok, I'm going, I'm going!) -- From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 3:43 PM hey, Melissa, I'll miss you! Feel free to contact me off the list if you like. Have a great break and enjoy it all. Aviva [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: rem melissa bruijn mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 5:01 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while Hi, all. Well, it's been really interesting and informative being on the Ozmid list...but I must sign off for a while. My family need me, and I get sidetracked keeping up with the Ozmid emails...'cos I love reading them! THank you for sharing your insights and experiences with me...and also your info for specific requests I have made. Feel free to email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED]. --- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.423 / Virus Database: 238 - Release Date: 25/11/02
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Brisbane enthusiasm Denise - it's Melissa here...I facilitate Birthtalk with Deb, my sister-in-law (who is the one who put the Question to Peter Beatty at Ipswich) and Karen (whose home birth story was mentioned in your friend's daughter's letter). I will not mention your friend's daughter's name here for privacy sake...but Denise - you should see the change in her since she started coming to Birthtalk. Her face is alive, and she is so focussed and excited about having a positive experience next time. She did not mention that at the last meeting, she also told part of her own story...which had us all shocked at the way she was treated, and how she was manipulated. I just want to say that not only is she making much effort, and with much enthusiasm, as you have said...but that she is very courageous and has a lot of spirit to come thru the experience she has and face it head on, to help make changes for other women, and for herself in the future. Melissa -- From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 6:51 AM Dear Listers I am forwarding part of an email from the daughter of a friend in Brisbane to share with you her efforts and enthusiasm I did not know any premier had open house cabbinet meetings?? denise Hi Denise, I went with friends to the community cabinet meeting at Ipswich recently which starred Peter Beatty, Wendy Edmund etc and mmy friend put a question to them at question time re what are they doing about improving the maternity care for women and babies in QLD, in view of the horrendous intervention and c-sec rates. Of course Peter stumbled and bumbled and basically said that NMAP has been presented to the Federal govt and its up to them to do something about it and provide the funding and that he would refer our concerns to them. Deb and I will be visiting our local member very soon with Bruce Teackle I think. We are going to take a written statement of what the now, whats wrong with it, and what we want. Im very excited about that. Birthtalk is going well and we have started a media strategy so you might see/hear about us soon down that way. And Deb and I are also off to a meeting with the Homebirth association soon which I will really enjoy. I heard a homebirth story the other night at Birthtalk and it was so brilliant and powerful and inspiring. I just noticed that email you forwarded was from Pinky McKay (The Bumper Stickers) do you know Pinky? Ive read some of her work, its wonderful stuff, I love the way she advocates for parenting and mothering babies and children.
[ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while
Title: [ozmidwifery] Signing off for a while Hi, all. Well, it's been really interesting and informative being on the Ozmid list...but I must sign off for a while. My family need me, and I get sidetracked keeping up with the Ozmid emails...'cos I love reading them! THank you for sharing your insights and experiences with me...and also your info for specific requests I have made. Feel free to email me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] And feel free to recommend to any women in the Sunshine Coast/Brisbane/Gold Coast area whom you think could benefit from attending a Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth meeting. Thanks, Melissa Newsflash : we are starting a Healing From a Difficult Birth group - first meeting Dec 10. SO now there are two Birthtalk groups : Birthtalk Forum : for pregnant women, and any woman passionate about Birth, this is a forum designed to empower women as they journey towards birthing their baby. Talk to women who have already birthed babies and learn from each women's experience. Each month presents a different Topic to be discussed , however, individual concerns and questions are always welcome. Healing From a Difficult Birth Support Group : for women to debrief share their past birth experiences in a safe environment. Talk to other mothers also healing from disappointing, difficult or traumatic births and share ideas to support each other. This group may be of benefit to women recovering from a Caesarean birth or a traumatic vaginal delivery. birthtalk Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth birthtalk aims to: - provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth - to empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about birth and birthing options - provide a support network for women who are healing from past birth experiences and those who are preparing for births after a disappointing, difficult or traumatic previous birth - to encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ph : Melissa on 3356 7449 Deb on 3379 7424 KAren on 3720 1101
[ozmidwifery] Pelvic u/s to determine pelvic size and birthing ability???
Can anyone help me with this? I have a close friend at the Gold Coast who wants a vbac, and has found a vbac-friendly OB...BUT...he has said he wants her to have an u/s at 34 wks to determine her pelvic size, so she doesn't have to go thru a long labour for nothing!!!!!! I have told her of the futility of this, as it won't show what amazing things a birthing woman's pelvis can do...especially when squatting! She doesn't want the u/s, but is feeling backed into a corner becuase this OB is the only vbac-friendly one on the coast. He does waterbirths and I think breech vaginal births and is apparently pro-vbac...but the fact that he wants this u/s sets off alarm bells for me. DOes anyone have any stats or further info on the pelvic u/s and its effectiveness in determining pelvic size and ability to birth? SHe just wants to be prepared when she goes to her next appt and advises the OB she does not want this. I am having trouble accessing info, so thought I'd see if anyone has any ideas. THanks in advance, Melissa -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: FW: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) Tina - tonite I read your story as you wrote it, to our Birthtalk- Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth group. It was heard by a group of 8 women. (6 have suffered traumatic c/sec births and 4 are pg) It was such an amazing story, and I was a bit weepy myself as it neared the end and struggled to keep my voice steady...and your story had such an effect on us as a group. We were all wiping our eyes, and it gave us such strength, to hear what can happen when women support women. It lead into a very passionate recounting by one mum of her own vbac homebirth and how she received support such as you offered. And this then started a discussion on how it feels to give birth (most of these women have never experienced that), and how she coped with having her 3yo and her mum around, and how we have all coped with our mothers when in labour, and then we went into what we can learn from our mother's birth experiences, and how our relationship with our mother can develop as we share our stories of birth. So we heard two very positive stories that renewed our belief in ourselves and our ability to birth, and has sprouted a whole new series of Qs and issues that confront women facing birth again after a traumatic experience. So thank you. All the women thanked me at the end for sharing the story, so I must thank you...and the women whose story it is (Sally). These stories will change how we birth. Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] follow through programme
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] follow through programme I did not know this was even an option - thanks for sharing this info. Melissa -- From: Grant and Louise [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] follow through programme Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 9:44 AM I'd like to second Tina's comments re follow through. It was the best part of my midi (1988) following through my 4 ladies, and at the moment I am a follow through lady myself (or longitudinal case study!) for a lovely midi student. It is great to have someone there with me at all my visits. I just hope I don't birth while she's away at residential school. LOUISE [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Also Melissa...where are you all?? I would like to take this opportunity to invite these women to contact their local universities and enquire about their midwifery courses, particularly if they run a follow through program. These women could all have their own midwife student should it be of interest to themIf any of the women would like further info on the follow thru programs for the Bachelor of Midwifery let me know and I can put them in contact with the appropriate people... TIna - we are all in Brisbane/Gold Coast area (meetings in BRisbane). I would really be interested if any local uni's have this programme - sounds great. Specially if the students are anything like you and your friends who supported Sally! Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re Tina's response to Denise
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re Tina's response to Denise While some of the midwives seem to embrace the whole responsibility/accountability thingmany do not...and would rather be seen in the handmaiden role in preference to accepting full responsibility for their midwife role. TIna - this is exactly the attitude that led to my being sectioned at 9.5 cm. I was in a Birth Centre where I trusted the midwives and believed they worked within a midwifery model of care. But it became all talk : I was abandoned while my mw watched the tennis and I thought I was dying. Plus I can tell anyone that Team Midwifery in a Birth Centre DOES NOT WORK. You cannot build a relationship with several women from a few 15 min appointments over the 9 mths. And even that is redundant when the woman who attends you is someone you have never met. And who obviously does not want to be there, at least not as a responsibile midwife, it seemed to me. I felt that by recommending an epidural, that she was free of me. Not a nice feeling - like I'd failed Birth Centre 101. I did the empowering thing of saying, among other things, they can't do a CS if she doesn't sign the consent, she said Already done yesterday in preadmission. I got the form and gave it to her and she tore it up. Judy - WOW, that is such an empowering and symbolic thing - to tear up the presigned CS consent form. I just got my records this week, which was quite an emotional thing, reading over them. And when I saw my CS Consent Form, I got so upset. There was my signature, all scrawled and distorted, and it lept out from the page at me. It seems to me like it was the last thing I wrote before I lost my innocence. I signed after 30 hrs of labour (22 hrs drug free), and I was in a bad way. In shock, confused, and surprised I was still alive, I still managed to sign my name. Must go - I am a bit upset. Melissa The new MSN 8: http://g.msn.com/8HMCEN/2018 smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] CPD WAS big baby fear?
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] CPD WAS big baby fear? -- From: Sarah Slater [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just find it disheartening to hear someone say that they were glad that they had a c-section because their baby was 'large'. I mean fair enough if it was 12lb or something (although I have heard that's possible!) Anyway, I'm not yet a midwife and there's probably more to it than this like for instance cephalopelvic disproportion Sarah - check out the International Caesarean Awareness Network (ICAN) website (www.ican-online.org). In their FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section, they discuss when a c/sec is TRULY indicated with a CPD diagnosis. According to ICAN, true CPD is extremely rare and only associated with a pelvic deformity or an incorrectly healed pelvic break. That description does not apply to any of the women that I know who were sliced open for CPD. Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] At the B Mid Student Collective...we are bantering around the possibility of putting a book together of our follow thru experiences 'with woman'..written by BMidders who have the honour and privilege of sharing in women's experiences :-)) Tina - can't wait to read it. THis ties in with one of our reasons for starting Birthtalk...actually changing women's perception of what birth is, by the stories that are told. That is how our concept of birth is passed from woman to woman. We NEED these stories of how women work together to find strength and birth their babies on their own terms. Thank you for caring so very much. MElissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and the power of the mind
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and the power of the mind From: Carolyn Donaghey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why do women who avoid alcohol, panadol and soft cheese for 9 months suddenly become happy about ingesting drugs more powerful than any of these and any they are likely to take in their life? Why aren't these women worried about the effect on their baby (assuming the cs was performed for the babies safety as is the usual argument), are these things discussed with women before the drug is administered? I dont recall ever being told the possible side effects. Carolyn - I don't recall being told either. And I was one of those who avoided EVERYTHING during my pregnancy!
Re: [ozmidwifery] big baby fear?
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] big baby fear? I'll say it's a good week! Warms my heart and gives me hope to hear stories like this. THanks Judy Melissa -- From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] big baby fear? Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 8:09 PM The woman I worked with today had a CS without labour for a 'big baby' for her first birth. She was also diagnosed as a gestational diabetic that pregnancy. Baby was 3870 - comfy but not particularly big. Booked for a CS tomorrow, came in with ruptured membranes and some contractions last night and despite interference had a successful vaginal birth under her own steam at midday. Needless to say she is very happy. As am I. Good week this week. Judy : RE: [ozmidwifery] big baby fear? Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:41:01 +1100 Big baby would, in my books, be over 4000. A lot does depend on the size of the mother. Why the caesar? Hopefully not for 'big baby' -Original Message- On Behalf Of Julie Garratt Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 10:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] big baby fear? Hi all, I'm concerned that saying to a mother that their having a nice big baby can be a bit terrifying as my niece just told me that she was so glad she had a caesarean because he was such a big baby. He was actually only... weight 2980, length 49.5cm head circumference 35.5cm. I asked her why she thought this was big as its her second child and second ceasar. Her reply was that all through her pregnancy she was told that he was a big baby, even a very big baby! maybe it was because my niece is very overweight that this was said, I don't know? I'm sure the Midwives meant that he was a healthy baby not to huge to be birthed. What is a big baby anyway? Curious as always Julie'', -- Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. http://g.msn.com/8HMLEN/2021 Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] 'elective' cs
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] 'elective' cs -- From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] 'elective' cs Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 12:56 PM I would suggest (perhaps incorrectly?) that the greatest culprits of the right to elective cs are women... Issues such as respiratory disorders and so forth were worth the risk and they were up and doing the shopping in a few days!! ...There is no comprehension of alternative options of care no understanding of consecutive pregnancy complications and so forth. They are proud and very aggressive to alternative experiences. Jo, I know exactly what you mean. It IS scary, the general attitude towards cs. A lot of women I know have exactly that proud, aggressive attitude you describe. One woman I know, who had 3 c/secs (2 elective) was telling me of a friend (a GP!!) who had all 4 of her kids by elective cs. SHe then announced - with almost a ferocity - that almost NONE of her friends have had a natural birth...nearly ALL caesareans. I face this attitude towards c/secs (the flippant fit it into my schedule/I had no pain attitude) a lot of the time, as many of the women from my old social group from school days have this attitude. I used to be quite threatened by their aggression. But I still have trouble putting the blame on the women. I agree they promote the cs myth...but who gave them the idea that it was safe in the first place? I believe it is also a cultural issue : we are brought up to trust Drs unquestionably, and to be good little girls, and expect to be looked after. The idea that we need a Dr to birth is so ingrained in our culture (media, horror stories from friends, our mother's stories). Plus most of us are trained to fear pain, and there is no education as to the possible benefits of labour pain. Plus we are not educated to trust our bodies. But the women I talk to DO ask their OBs about safety...but are generally assured they are doing the right thing, and given a brief list of possible side effects but then are able to either explain them away or dismiss them as not important. THe woman I mentioned with the 3 c/secs got info from her endocrinologist whose wife was pg, supporting the safety of c/secs (love to know where he got his stats), and it was THIS info that conviced her to get her second c/sec. She asked her own OB if he had this info, and he said yes, but he didn't need it. Whew - this has got long. Sorry. And I have written it with a very vocal 3yo next to me, so sorry if it jumps all over the place! Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.....when Sally met Harry....(Long)
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) oh, Tina- I am bawling here! I can hardly see the screen...that is the MOSt AWESOME story - THANK YOU for sharing it here. Sniff sniff - it truly does the soul good to hear what a woman can do when she is supported and nurtured and caressed and honoured. Thank you for doing what you do : we mothers need what you are doing. Would you mind if I share that story at my Birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth meeting next week? MElissa PS. and you put at the end of your story The End, but really, it is just the beginning for this mother. SHe will be able to use the strength and courage you encouraged her to feel during her birth, in her daily life. SHe will forever be touched by the gift you gave her, and her children will be blessed by it too. -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] A follow thru journey.when Sally met Harry(Long) Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 8:45 AM Hi fellow listersthought I'd share my most recent follow thru journey with you all... M where do I start Sally (not her real name) and I engaged in our partnership in her 12th week of pregnancy...she is married to Jason...and they have one adorable little boy Patrickwho just turned three. Patrick's birth was pretty much a 'hamburger with the lot'.induced at term with synto for suspected PROM..(hind water leak) and GBS positiveantibiotics in labour...continuous electronic fetal monitoring...birthing supine in stirrups in a pethidine haze...episiand 'lift out' forceps...Patrick then spent 3-4 days in the special care nursery with query pneumonia?? The experience left Sally feeling quite fragile, but as she saysin the end I just had to 'get on with it' Her pregnancy this time started off on a much better noteshe had community midwife care, and her midwife student in her ear at every opportunity :-)) Throughout the pregnancy we developed a really wonderful relationship...sharing over cuppas or lunch...often with extended family around...never a visit under two hours...like me, Sally hates to yack!!! Anyhow fast forward to last Friday 15th Nov...her due date (by ultrasound 11/11/02, by her dates 23/11/02) having come and gone...of course necessitated a visit to the AN clinic :-))...Doc does his checks says all is just wonderful...but still insists on an IOL (prostin) scheduled for 20/11 if nothing happens before thenSally says OK.. Monday 18th.0600 hrs...Sally phones me to say she's been contracting for a few hourshind water leak again (GBS neg in this pregnancy), excited that things are on their way without the induction...However, Monday came and went without any further action...tighenings and niggles ALL day Tuesday and Tuesday night still leaking with contractions...into hospital we go for IOL as planned 0800 Wednesday.. 1.0 mg of prostin 0900midwife says Sally's cervix IS really stretchy...50% effacedno dilation...just the typical multips OS Sally was told to go home at 11.00 :-0 I couldn't believe they would send her home...all that prelabour stuff...a VE and prostinreceipe for labour I thought...however...midiwfe says no no may be a while yet...so home it was ...rest up and return for second prostin dose at 2.30pm were the instructions... I arrived home about 11.45...only to receive a call from Sally to say meet you back at the hospitallabours come on in a hurry...contracting 3/10.. Surprise, surprise!! Labour kicked on well and truly...contractions coming quite think and fast once we got settled in birth room...As fate would have it a midwife friend just happened to bump into me on the way in to begin her shift..she quickly put her name up to care for Sally...and Janine (fellow BMidder on placement) just happened to be passing by so a good birth team was assembled...The midwife...gorgeous woman...just left us too itjust call me when you've got a head on view...and that we did...Sally laboured beautifully strong and well supported by husband Jason and later her mother-in-law who came to witness the birth. Sally was very active...then when contractions got enormous...she took up her birth position standing, leaning over the bed...wanted a good position to avoid an episi...Not to worry I told her...no episi today...:-)) I was in awe of this woman...she was frightened...her hands shaking...but determined to GIVE BIRTH to this baby...we all worked so well together..contractions changed up a bit...and that beautiful grunty sound on the end of themI asked Sally to tell me what she could feel in her vagina...her bottom...not quite sure, I encouraged her to put a finger or two inside and tell me...hesitant at first..she finally gave it ago cause I ain't putting mine in I told her...another contraction and I could see slight bulging at peak of a contraction...and with contractions coming thick and fast
Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and the power of the mind
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and the power of the mind Fear must have an impact on labour length. Because fear produces adrenalin, and adrenalin inhibits the oxytocin, which is the hormone that works to make the uterus contract. In the Active Birth classes I did in Sydney, we learned that you get a burst of adrenalin at the start of each contraction, and that if the adrenalin is not dealt with then the contraction will be less efficient, as the adrenalin is inhibiting the release of the oxytocin. The idea is that the adrenalin is there to make us wake up and attend to the contraction, but because we usually associate pain with fear we feel the adrenalin as something to run away from. So if the contractions are less efficient, that HAs to affect labour length. That explains to me why labours often slow or stop on the journey to hospital : because we are mammals and our bodies are so clever that if they detect an unsafe situation they are designed to release adrenalin which halts early labour so we can get somewhere safe. (or to deliver the baby fast if further in labour - but I am not sure of the hormones for that one!) Especially when you look at the work of Michel Odent, where he noted that, when left to themselves, women seek out a quiet, dark corner to birth - I guess where they feel safe, and the adrenalin can be released, and the oxytocin can do its stuff. Which then asks Qs about how can women find this dark private place to birth in a hospital situation? And how can we help them to feel MORE safe in a hospital situation, where they are out of their comfort zone? And personally, my own labour changed immediately when there was a staff change - and the new midwife was a complete stranger, and very blunt and disinterested. I went from feeling supported to feeling abandoned (and very frightened), and the effects on my labour were marked. I hear this again and again from women I speak to who have had traumatic births - they were just so frightened. Also does anyone have comments on is simply providing information alleviate fear? When women are 'empowered through information' is this really all that needs to be done to empower, or does faith have an important role to play? I believe knowledge is power, but that EMpowerment comes from knowledge and SUPPORT. A woman might have all this new knowledge to support her needs (esp for a vbac) but if she has no support, she may find it hard to feel empowered with this information. By support I guess I mean : someone to share the info with and keep going over it, and discussing how the info brings up issues from the past birth, and what this info means to her as a woman, and someone WHo BELIEVES IN THIS WOMAN and in all women's innate ability to birth their babies. I guess what I am saying is that the info has to be assimilated and supported for a woman to find strength and courage to act on the information. Does the faith or trust of those around the birthing women have an impact on her empowerment? I believe, and read in a lot of sources, that we are more open to EVERYTHING when we are birthing - we are literally opening up our minds and bodies in birth. So it stands to reason for me, then, that how we are perceived by the people around us as we birth is vitally important, as we are more open to every attitude that comes our way. How can the birthing woman stay empowered if no-one arounds her believes she can do it? Just my 20c worth! You have touched on some topics I am very interested in! Melissa
Re: [ozmidwifery] adrenaline in labour WAS birth and the power of the mind
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] adrenaline in labour WAS birth and the power of the mind -- From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have not heard of burst of adrenaline with each contraction nor can I see the physiological sense of such. Rather when a woman is in labour the hormones that drive it are midbrain in origin that is subconscious, primitive the need is to let go of the conscious work and tune into the baby and body. Hi, Denise - I got the information about the burst of adrenaline from the classes I did with Julia Sundin, who has a book published called Face to Face With Childbirth. She is a Sydney physiotherapist and ran Active Birth classes. According to Julia a contraction can consist of two parts 1. fight/flight (adrenaline) and 2. Flow State (Oxytocin). THe first 3-5 seconds are like the start of a race and put you on alert, and is designed to wake us up - not frighten us. She says that the fight/flight response is designed to last for a short time, and that the adrenaline helps to supply us with Energy (converting amino acids to glucose) for the contraction, and says this is why women don't need to be aerobically fit to labour. She believes that in active labour, telling a woman to relax into the adrenaline won't work, as if we don't take action, we will get exhausted, our blood sugar level drops, as the adrenaline takes over. Julia says that adrenaline is user-friendly in labour : it calls us to action and is designed to help, and gives us extra energy and ability. She believes it can create instant empowerment if we use it as a fuel to get bigger and stronger, and that the adrenaline can make us vital, ready and powerful. And she suggests ways to release the adrenaline, such as foot-stomping, banging stress balls together, moaning and thumping pillows, as she says that adrenaline is a hormone of action and that action is the only way to deplete it quickly (to let the oxytocin do its thing). I used all these in my labour, and I must say they really helped me in terms of feeling strong and empowered. The only thing I felt was that perhaps as my labour progressed the techniques diverted my attention from going inward - I used them to control rather than letting go and letting my primitive responses guide me. (I definately agree with your comment about needing to let go of the conscious work) But then again, by THAT time, I was feeling extremely unsafe and abandoned and was looking for anything to gain a skerrick of control in what I felt was a situation where I actually thought I was going to die. SO maybe there needs to be a place where the woman feels safe enought to let go of the conscious work...as I certainly didn't feel that. I would be interested to hear your comments about the above - I guess when I was pg I thought that if Julia was telling us this in our classes, that it must BE so. But I have learned the hard way that I can no longer trust and must do my own research. I have not looked into this adrenaline stuff before, as it hasn't come up till now...but now I guess I must question everything. Melissa PS my support person in my birth was Deb Gould, my sister-in-law...you shared a car with her and Kelly on the way to your talk in Brisbane. Small world, hey!
Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and the power of the mind
On the topic of control...I love it when women say they want a cs cause they are more in controlgot news for them! Unless they are multi-skilled and dam flexible and have the scalpel in their own hands, they are in no way in control! Jo Bainbridge So right, Jo! Being pinned down and not being able to move your legs is a horrible feeling - NO sense of control there. And on the subject of reasons for a c/sec...I find it interesting when I hear women say that they want a c/sec because they hate pain. I can say from experience that a c/sec is in no way pain-free. Especially the postnatal period. Trying to sit-up with a fresh slice across your belly, add to that a uterine infection or scar infection (which most women I talk to have had one or the other), bleeding and mashed raw nipples (from trying to feed lying down b/c it is too painful for your belly to sit up, but then it is too hard to get proper attachment lying down, hence the nipple damage), feet blown up like puffer-fish for days and extremely tender, and all without those releasing hormones of birth. Now THAt is not pain-free. Sigh - I am a little cynical these days. Melissa -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] ABC radio
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] ABC radio Strength to you, Jo! I know what you mean re being scared...I was on ABC talkback radio chatting about attending our local NMAP launch rally with a group of c/sec women, and the effect it had on us all. I thought I was going to throw up afterwards! But that subsided fast and I was left with a feeling of satisfaction of having got the idea out there that a c/sec was not all it is proclaimed to be by knife-happy OBs! (and relieved that I got through the converation without my toddler butting in, by plying him with juice and rice cakes at will!!) I guess the only thing that I would add is that women usually believe they are choosing a c/sec through informed consent. But it is not informed, as their OB usually does not give them all the information on the possible effects from a c/sec, or an epidural for that matter. Women need to be given ALL the information, and currently, they are generally not. BEst of luck, and you go, girl! Melissa -- From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] ABC radio Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 10:50 AM Next Tuesday at 9am (EST) ABC radio is running a 15 minute segment on cs and women's choices. Anne Dealany has asked me to talk about choices and processes that women go through which brings them to the choice of elective cs or vbac. I am going to do a bit of prep work tonight and will send the list some ideas I will bring into the conversation. If any one has anything they want me to include (yes, NMAP and continuity of carer and so forth are already on my list.) please let me know. wish me luck, I am scarred shitlesswhen ever I get nervous I cant stop talking (as many of you have already had the misfortune to experience first hand!!!) Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love...
Re: [ozmidwifery] Proved 'im wrong
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Proved 'im wrong Wow, Judy - you go, girl! This woman will probably never know how lucky she was to have met you. But we know. You may be proud of the woman, and with good cause, but I feel so much admiration for YOU for standing up for this woman's rights and providing her with information and trusting in her body, and just being there for her. Well done. Melissa -- From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Proved 'im wrong Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 8:16 PM I am so proud of the woman I looked after today. 20 yr old primi and when I took over her care she had been in for a couple of hours. Full of fear and at 38+ weeks with ruptured membranes. Fully believing she could not have her baby naturally as her doctor (GP) from way out of town had told her that her pelvis was too small and she would definately need a CS. I spent time talking to her to find out what she REALLY wanted and told of the possibilities, I told the OB what I had said and she backed it up. Tenatively this woman agreed to try for a natural birth. Her labour was not without interference because of the fear but the end result was a normal birth with a midwife and proud and happy parents. Judy MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. http://g.msn.com/8HMIEN/2020 Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Judy - I am so sorry that you received no validation for your experience. The comments re. having a healthy baby can be so hurtful. I found they added guilt and self-doubt to the horrible way I was feeling. ie How can it be that I am not happy?. And you are right - when does the mother get healthy? 24 years is a long time - I am just so sorry. Melissa -- From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 8:07 PM You are so right about the validation. All I got after 2 CS for 'Failure to Progress' (ob impatience) was 'you should be thankful you have a healthy baby'. What about me, don't I get a chance to be healthy! It took about 24 years to come to terms with it. Judy From: rem melissa bruijn Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:52:43 +0800 MArgie - just wanted to say THANK YOU for these words. The biggest thing I am finding for anyone who has been traumatised by their birth experience is GETTING VALIDATION. Everytime someone says It is not ok, as you have, it lets us hear that our pain is valid. We usually hear but you're fine and the baby is fine whenever we mention our difficulties to others. Hearing It is not ok also gives us permission to grieve, for it admits that there IS another way that IS ok...and we have missed out on it. It is important to acknowledge this. And the way you wrote about having had the honour of supporting traumatised women on their new journey...that just fills me with hope, and gratitude that there are people like you out there. Thank you, Melissa Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. http://g.msn.com/8HMYEN/2021 Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] what to say to traumatised woman WAS hurtful birth experiences
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] what to say to traumatised woman WAS hurtful birth experiences For anyone who is interested, there is a great list on Victorious Birth.com of what to say to someone who has had a traumatic c/sec. The direct link is : http://www.victoriousbirth.com/whatdoyousay...htm I wish I'd found it when I most needed it - not 3 years later. It outlines pretty much exactly what I needed to hear. MAybe except for What would you do differently?, as usually the mother has done everything within her own base of understanding. And what would I do differently??? Be WAY more educated and Birth with a midwife I knew and trusted for starters. Melissa -- From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 8:07 PM Judy From: rem melissa bruijn Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:52:43 +0800 MArgie - just wanted to say THANK YOU for these words. The biggest thing I am finding for anyone who has been traumatised by their birth experience is GETTING VALIDATION. Everytime someone says It is not ok, as you have, it lets us hear that our pain is valid. We usually hear but you're fine and the baby is fine whenever we mention our difficulties to others. Hearing It is not ok also gives us permission to grieve, for it admits that there IS another way that IS ok...and we have missed out on it. It is important to acknowledge this. And the way you wrote about having had the honour of supporting traumatised women on their new journey...that just fills me with hope, and gratitude that there are people like you out there. Thank you, Melissa Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. http://g.msn.com/8HMYEN/2021 Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences And that is such a gift : to gain a new career, a new empathy and be able to help other women. (I feel I am on the verge of something similar.) THe women who have had you as their carer should consider themselves lucky to have someone so insightful. -- From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 10:21 AM What helped me heal was knowing that I probably would not have been a midwife, or maybe not so caring, if it was not for that. I know I have managed to help some women avoid what I had. Judy Judy Chapman Midwife 07 47490764 From: Aviva Sheb'a Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 22:35:18 +1030 Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiencesit's tragic that this is typical of rapees too. I think we ought to celebrate every woman who makes the steps to even begin to heal; and let's celebrate every step along the way. love to you all, aviva - Original Message - From: rem melissa bruijn To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 11:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Judy - I am so sorry that you received no validation for your experience. The comments re. having a healthy baby can be so hurtful. I found they added guilt and self-doubt to the horrible way I was feeling. ie How can it be that I am not happy?. And you are right - when does the mother get healthy? 24 years is a long time - I am just so sorry. Melissa -- From: Judy Chapman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 8:07 PM You are so right about the validation. All I got after 2 CS for 'Failure to Progress' (ob impatience) was 'you should be thankful you have a healthy baby'. What about me, don't I get a chance to be healthy! It took about 24 years to come to terms with it. Judy From: rem melissa bruijn Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 21:52:43 +0800 MArgie - just wanted to say THANK YOU for these words. The biggest thing I am finding for anyone who has been traumatised by their birth experience is GETTING VALIDATION. Everytime someone says It is not ok, as you have, it lets us hear that our pain is valid. We usually hear but you're fine and the baby is fine whenever we mention our difficulties to others. Hearing It is not ok also gives us permission to grieve, for it admits that there IS another way that IS ok...and we have missed out on it. It is important to acknowledge this. And the way you wrote about having had the honour of supporting traumatised women on their new journey...that just fills me with hope, and gratitude that there are people like you out there. Thank you, Melissa -- Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe. MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. http://g.msn.com/8HMJEN/2023 Get 2 months FREE*. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences
MArgie - just wanted to say THANK YOU for these words. The biggest thing I am finding for anyone who has been traumatised by their birth experience is GETTING VALIDATION. Everytime someone says It is not ok, as you have, it lets us hear that our pain is valid. We usually hear but you're fine and the baby is fine whenever we mention our difficulties to others. Hearing It is not ok also gives us permission to grieve, for it admits that there IS another way that IS ok...and we have missed out on it. It is important to acknowledge this. And the way you wrote about having had the honour of supporting traumatised women on their new journey...that just fills me with hope, and gratitude that there are people like you out there. Thank you, Melissa -- From: Margie Perkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 4:21 PM My heart goes out to everyone who is sharing or has had soul and body hurting births. It is not ok. And must change. I have had the honour of supporting a number of women who have previously been traumatised by caesareans (or other things) and it is something so special to be part of their new journey. love and the greatest respect to you all. Margie At Thu, 7 Nov 2002 17:39:56 +1100 (AUS Eastern Daylight Time), Rhonda ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I suggest tjhat you allow her to be angry and to vent her pain and her anger towards those who caused it. Support her in complaining to the hospital and insisting upon answers as lame as they may be. If she were to ask why was the induction needed? Was the baby in distress (at the time of the first insertion of gel - a horrible substance called prostin made from Pig seamen. Lovely!) Was her placenta failing? What was the indication that at 10 days over she needed to be induced anyway? Then once they have wormed out of that she should ask for explanations as to why all of the intervention and what caused it and why was it all needed. Give her lots of love and support to do this as nothing will change and it will keep happening unless women are encouraged to complain and conplain and complain! Even if she personally gets little satisfaction fron the complaint it is just one more brick to add - eventually we will built a wall to protect women from this - brick by brick. You need to complain first to the registra at the hospital but at the same time go directly to the medical practitioners board and make sure it outlines that the initial induction was not called for and the following intervention could have been avoided. Also any poor bedside manner should be outlines clearly if they were rude to her which it seems they were not supportive and gentle from your description. I wish her love and luck in her recovery - if she needs someone to talk to you are welcome to give her my email. The problem is this happens every day and it is not looked at as torture or as something that needs to be changed. The only way it will be seen as a problem is if they are inundated with complaints about this sort of thing. Luv Rhonda. I am so angry for her - it just shpuld not happen and make sure she knows she is right to be upset because it is not a fault with her body and it is not that it just happens - it should not have happened to her. Make sure she knows why it was not necessary and why it should not have happened. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, November 07, 2002 14:44:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Whew, Rhonda. I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much happening, into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped down to bed, more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut artery, blood gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though it was a tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, she's stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being pumped every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. but hey, at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her and she repeats as she recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In Adelaide, November, 2002. ...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our future. Aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Well Megan, I guess the only way to really understand is this.. I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has happened and I have dealt with it in my own way)ay to really understand is this..=0D =0D I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change
Re: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife Hi, Tory, I am in Brisbane but know quite a few fantastic people on the Gold Coast who could support your sister-in-law (don't actually know any midwives, but these people I am recommending will - and support can come from all angles!). I hope it is ok - I have forwarded your email to Deirdrie Cullen, who is a member of the GC Home Birth Assoc and a wonderful contact for any pg woman on the Gold Coast. Her ph humber is : 55332258. Also, I recommend that your sister-in-law contact Sarah Buck, a Childbirth Educator/Doula who is currently supporting my best friend as she prepares for a vbac. I have also spoken to her on the ph and she was great. Her number is 55 908 101. THe Gold Coast has quite a rampant c/sec rate - and from friends I hear it is very difficult to find support from an OB. But hopefully your sister-in-law will be able to meet some of these women and surround herself with positive and informed support. Plus, Dr Andrew Davidson is an OB at John Flynn Hospital at the Gold Coast who does water births and I believe is supportive of vbac, so may be more open with your sister-in-law about her options, too. Also,if your sister-in-law has internet access, I suggest she contact ICAN (International Caesarean Awareness Network), for more information, as they are fabulous in that area. The best way is to get on their chat list and just ask the questions. The site is www.ican-online.org, and the chat list address is : send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . In the body of the email, simply type the word subscribe. Don't put anything in the subject line. You'll get an email back with further instructions about how to validate your request -- just remember, always use plain settings on your email, or the list program won't hear what you are trying to do! She could also contact me at Birthtalk (3356 7449). My sister-in-law is a midwife and together we run this support group for Birthing Women in Brisbane, if she needs to talk. Hope this helps, Melissa birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth. We aim to : * provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth * empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about their birthing options *encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. birthtalk meets monthly at Toowong, in Brisbane, Australia email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melissa : ph (07) 3356 7449 Debby : ph (07) 3379 7424 Karen : ph (07) 3720 1101 -- From: Victoria Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Midwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Gold Coast Midwife Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 5:59 AM Dear Ozmidders, My name is Tory Howell and I am a first year midwifery student in Adelaide. I am writing to ask if their are any midwives in the Gold Coast region that could help my sister-in-law. She is due on the 11th of January but has been told to have a c-section. I saw her not long ago and asked her why this was recommended. She couldn't quite give me a clear answer so I thought I would ask you all what you thought! She has quite prominent varicose veins on her inner left thigh which give her quite a bit of discomfort. She also has a swelling in her left groin almost in the labia region. (No varicose veins visible in this spot). She has been given stockings etc... to try and make here more comfortable and a obstetrician actually said that she could try a vaginal birth but a hospital based midwife told her to go for the c-section option. She is quite distressed and confused when I saw her as she just wants to do the safest thing for her baby and I felt she was leaning towards the c-section option but there is no way her husband will be able to take much time off while she will be recovering. I would really like her to see a more open minded midwife for some clear discussions of her options, so if there is anyone out there who can help, it would be greatly appreciated. I am going to try to be with her for the birth and stay as long as I can to provide some support. Kind regards, Tory XXOO
Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] healing and connecting after c/sec WAS dimensions - violent birth Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down the body to the toes, making sure every part of the body is stimulated... Vicki Vicki - this is something that I think is really important for c/sec babies and their mums - that's so great that you do this. I started massaging my boy when he was quite new, and we both got so much out of it - we still do (he's 3 now). This reminds me of other things I have done to heal from my caesarean and to connect with my boy, so I thought I'd put a couple here... * skin-to-skin as soon as possible after birth. This may seem obvious, but I did not get to hold my baby skin-to-skin until he was 3 days old. He was completely healthy (Apgars of 9 and 10), but no-one thought to do it. He was just always handed to me wrapped up, and I had a hospital gown on. Even when feeding. When I finally unwrapped him and got him on my skin, all of a sudden we connected, and it was like he was MINE and I was HIS. I fell like I lost 3 days when I could have been connecting with my baby. * telling my child the things I wanted to say to him when he was born, but couldn't because we were separated after the birth (while I was left alone in recovery, wondering what had just occurred.). I have written him letters telling him the words of greeting I never got to say. Then, I whispered those words to him at night as he slept. Then, I told him after his afternoon nap, when he was still drowsy. I will never forget the look of wonderment and delight on his face (this was only quite recently). That has been very healing for me. Anyway - just a couple of things that have helped me heal. Melissa -- From: Vicki Chan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 9:37 PM Something I like to do for Ceasarean born babies...and breech born too...is spend time massaging the babe from crown down (for some reason, I went to write 'song-lines'here...interesting...) the body to the toes, making sure every part of the body is stimulated...simulating the passage through the vagina... the mothers have felt very good about doing this themselves...a gift to their child... Vicki -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of elizabeth mcalpine Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 3:13 PM To: ozmidwifery Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] dimensions - violent birth Thanks to whoever sent the transcript. I have since inundated the ABC dimensions with my comments and request for help to get the message across. arrgghh! Its just too much to bear sometimes. Just yesterday, a fellow student and I were chatting after doing some work. She has a 15 yr old. Horrible, violent birth (the usual) After about 18 months, she returned to the hospital to discuss what had happened to her. That helped her a bit but she still grieves. No more children followed. In actual fact, I make it a point to know birth stories from every woman I know - (I should collect them for a book or something) Oh and here's another. Discussing NMAP, violent birth vs humanized birth etc. as usual with all and sundry one woman at work was listening so intently and I thought, hello, there's something here. On asking, it turned out that her third child, at full dilatation had cord prolapse. Big emergency, she said. Upside down and then hauled out with forceps. She was advised my a very wise woman, to provide excess sensory stimulation to enable/create neurophysiological recovery caused by damage due to forceps. Very thankful she did that, because as a toddler it helped him develop normally. He's 18 now, but has a very 'dark' side. ie suicidal thoughts. Liz Mc
Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk Thank you to Aviva, and Liz for your comments and support. Aviva - I cannot agree more about the effectiveness of talking and writing to deal with trauma. And I am so sorry about what you had to go through to discover this - I will stand silent on 11/11. Melissa -- From: Aviva Sheb'a [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2002 1:45 PM Wonderful! Go from victim to survivor to thriver to triumpher. As a female Vietnam veteran who broke silence after nearly twenty-six years' silence, I can vouch for the effectiveness of both talking and writing as therapeutic assets. A must for all trauma survivors. By the way, some of my Vietnam writing will be read at The Wall in Washington and the Writers' Tent on Memorial Day (equivalent of our Remembrance Day, 11/11). Have been invited to go over to give two half hour presentations next year, at the tenth anniversary of the dedication of the Vietnam Women Veterans' Memorial. I'll be passing the hat. Yes, talk, write, paint, draw, sing, dance, you name it, get it out out out and make sure people know about it. And please, teach children -- yours and others -- about the minute's silence in respect for those whose children will never see them, who died so that we may indeed battle for birthrites/birthrights. It's such a shame it went from three minutes to one, and even that, so many people don't even recognise. One minute of standing still is a very small time. Aviva - Original Message - From: elizabeth mcalpine mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 8:50 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk Dear Melissa, There are just too many traumatic births. Your group will grow huge - I'm sure that thousands of women will benefit in some small way, by sharing their stories. Liz Mc
[ozmidwifery] introducing birthtalk
Title: introducing birthtalk Hi - I have been lurking for a little while now, and after all the discussion on Birth Trauma and c/secs etc, I felt I must come out of lurkdom and introduce myself! Firstly, for all the women who have been sharing their traumatic experiences (Rhonda, Jo) - I am so very sorry for what you had to go through to meet your babies. It breaks my heart. I am grateful for your honesty - thank you. I, too had a traumatic caesarean, three and a half years ago. Actually, Cathy Cornack (who was interviewed on the Dimensions program) asked me to be interviewed with her for the show...but at that stage, I just couldn't do it. I was still too raw and grieving. It took me 2.5 years to begin to grieve, and then it came out with a vengeance. My story is so similar to Cathy's that we couldn't believe it when we sat and compared notes : our babies were born a month apart, planned Birth Centre birth in Sydney (we both have since moved to Brisbane), very long labours, OP babies, non-supportive carers, sectioned at around 9 cms, no post-natal support for the experiences, difficulties bonding, and breastfeeding, and even just surviving every day. I have since done a lot of personal research, and a lot of crying, and a lot of talking, and sharing on lists such as the ICAN (International Caesarean Awareness Network) list and the hbac (Home Birth After C/sec) lists. It has been a long road to healing. In fact Jenny Gamble, the midwife interviewed on NEw Dimensions, was instrumental in my healing, as I spent about an hour crying to her and sharing my story, in the early stages of my grieving. She really helped me separate the grief from the trauma and made me aware that the trauma would not go away on its own - it must be acknowledged and dealt with. So, anyway, now I have come such a long way, I have wanted to share what I have learned, and help other women heal, or avoid what I went through. So, along with my sister-in-law (a midwife and childbirth educator), and a mutual family friend (a homebirth vbac mum), we have decided to combine forces and start a positive birthing group. Our group is called birthtalk : Sharing, Empowering, Celebrating Birth. We aim to : * provide a forum for women to share their thoughts, expectations and experiences of birth * empower women by providing access to current and accurate literature information about their birthing options *encourage an atmosphere of celebration of birth, and of ourselves as women. We had 10 women at the last meeting, 7 who have had caesareans, and 3 of those women have had two c/sec births. All of these women have been traumatised by their experiences except one (who was arguing right up until theatre). We had one newly pg first time mum, and 2 home birth mums (one was a vbac). Actually, when we debriefed at the end of the meeting, the first-time mum said that she had felt out of place at the start of the meeting, then realised that she thought she could just be taken care of and let the Dr look after her...but now realises that she is going to need to read more, and take more responsibility, and be more informed. That just sent a glow to my heart. Anyway - just wanted to say hello - and thank you to all of you for what you are doing to reform the way we birth, and for having the courage to ask the questions. Melissa Bruijn birthtalk meets monthly at Toowong, in Brisbane, Australia email us at : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melissa : ph (07) 3356 7449 Debby : ph (07) 3379 7424 Karen : ph (07) 3720 1101
Re: [ozmidwifery] AXA insurance drops cover for caesars
Hi All, I'm new to the list, so thought I'd introduce my self. My name is Melissa, and I'm an agency midwife. I thououghly enjoy it (the hours and the flexibility), except for the model of care. Anyway, regarding AXA insurance, while I think it's a great idea, I think all that would happen is that women won't have their insurance through AXA. There's a huge demand for elective C/S in the private sector from women and obstetricians. If all insurance companies did what AXA are proposing to do, then we might see a difference. Although you can always find a medical reason to do an elective C/S if you want to. Melissa. Hi Listers, I have just heard a very exciting report on the BBC news tonight. This may be helpful for putting pressure on private insurance companies in OZ what do you think we can do? I've already written about it on my Diary - http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/archives/68.html Please read about it there as it saves me having to write it all out again Look forward to your responses. Andrea -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
