[ozmidwifery] Dope in Pregnancy
My daughter is doing a stint in the heart of Mormon territory in Snowbird,Utah. Today she wrote to me with this question, and before i wrote back i thought i'd ask for further thoughts. She tells me that it's very perplexing that she sees a lot of Mormon women whilst pregnant smoking weed. According to them, it's only harmful in the 3rd trimester and they're only using it to quell the nausea. My instinct tells the me 1st trimester would be the most damaging, so what else is going on then in the 3rd trimester to make it harmful then? I've never seen any ctg or growth changes attributed to dope. I have with heavier drugs, just not this one. I wish i'd had this line of thought opened a week ago because this week i was assessing a 25/40'er whose partner arrived to pick her up looking very bleary eyed and under the weather. I could have had something intelligent to say about whether she was joining him in the activity or not. Robin -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Today show c/s - Ric Porter
i'm afraid I need to stick my hand up ( just a little) in support of this obstetrician. I worked with him for many years in the hospital system and thereafter was his consultant midwife in private practise with him; our daughters were friends at school, so I think I know him reasonably well! Whilst I'm the first one to heartily agree on the obscenity of the numbers of unneccesary c/s's , i think we need to keep an eye on the issue rather than making it personal. He's not an uncaring ogre, he's a product of the system. As infertility was/is his major practise he recognised he didnt have the time nor the *expertise* to enlighten women about the intricate vagaries of birthing and acknowledged that a midwife would do a far better job than him. My entire job was to spend an hour long session with them, every week if they wished, to talk about whatever birthing issues arose for them ( and this was apart from all hospital based antenatal programs). I also occasionally stood in as his 'locum' for entire antenatal appointment days when the need arose.He was always supportive of the opinions of the midwives ( andhe knew I wasdefinately not an unopinionated one!) and is known to be approachable and debatable. I can recognise that you would perceive him as arrogant, but in life that is not his way. He just loves the camera, and probably this is part of his downfall in this instance. Dont attack him, attack the system. Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 11:11 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback In response to a woman's question "You don't have to worry about that. I have done this hundreds of times before and this is your first time. I know what you need." - Original Message - From: *G and S* To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback Alesia Wrote: "I dont know what info the women recieve during their antenatal care in Obs rooms" 0.01 is the answer to your query Alesa. And that is where the problem lies. "Pregnant? Come to my practice. I'm an Obstetrician . I'll look after you. I know what I'm doing. You sure as heck don't. Give me control over your body. I'll care for all your needs. I won't try and educate you. I don't really have the time. I am the specialist, I am a surgeon and you... you are merely pregnant." Does that feel familiar? Hugs, Sonia W.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support
Dear Anonymous I've been there done that. I stood alone in a system, stood my ground ina case seen by the HCC,saw a doctor deregistered for his actions but paid a hefty price myself. By speaking up I was labelled a 'troublemaker' and had IMMENSE difficulty gaining work in other hospitals, whom I subsequently realised were playing chinese whispers. Lots of hearsay and very little of the truth. Just beware that a hospital may only support you on the surface, dont expect anything from them that will step outside the boundaries of keeping the peace. It simply wont happen. Watch for your peers they will often be supportive at the time but not prepared to go the distance with you. Look after yourself. I was very good at bottling things up. Didnt talk about them because I was in a desert where no-one quite understood and no-one could say anything constructive. It took four years for me to crack, and when I eventually did, the year prior to it was one spent in anger and lashing out at the system/doctors. I didnt pick it for what it was that was happening to me until small issues became huge and I eventually lost the plot completely and in the process alienated myself from the system and colleagues. It's taken me two years to put the pieces back together but now, I'm a stronger more self aware midwife. However, thoughts of what I went through will still make me teary , so i put it in a place where I rarely bring it out these days. Do your homework. If you want to push changes you'll not be doing it for your professional well being. You'll be doing for your personal integrity only. And you'll be doing it for the women. Talk to the NRB, talk to the HCC, talk to the Nurses Union. Talk to the ACMI. There are so many of us out there who understand your feelings and so many who feel they make not much of a difference anymore. You are not alone in your immense frustration at the brutalisation of these women. There will be light at the end of the tunnel for you. It might not be prior to your resignation, it might not be next year, but you will learn and gain strength and wisdom from whatever action you choose to take. I"m firm believer there is always good that comes from bad. Good Luck. Robin - Original Message - From: Brian Pettifer To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 9:04 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Advise, encouragement, support I am leaving a midwifery position where I have continually witnessed brutal assaults to labouring, birthing women, no doubt deeply traumatised by their experience for a long time afterward, likewise their significant others supporting them during the childbirth experience. Prior to my resignation I need to make a difference. Initially I was horrified, complained to other midwives/obstetric nurses I work with, whom were judgemental, commenting that perhaps I should seek employment elsewhere. I complained to the unit manager whom decided I should attend the next obstetric meeting sharing my concerns with obstetricians involved.(And get shot between the eyeballs) As a stand alone midwife, NZ trained, I began informing women what to expect with vaginal examinations and what not to expect, hence:discomfort, not excruciating pain.That painful VE are unnecessary. Feedback from women post VE: "I felt like Ihad been raped." "It felt like my wisdom teeth were being pulled out through my vagina." "The pain was so bad I tried to crawl out the top of the bed to get away." "My husband will never forgive me for this." Breaks my heart and brings tears to my eyes that this crap is allowed to continue. My main goal is to make achange for even one women that I make a connection with, the reason I continued to work there. For my professional, personal well being, but mostly for women I need to take this one step further. I desperately want theseobstetricians to realise that their vaginal examinations are brutal assaults and not acceptable. I am prepared todo what ever it takes to stop women suffering. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. At this point I would prefer to remain anonymous for the time being, I know you will understand. THANKS IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here IMSTP.gif
Re: [ozmidwifery] Nicky Leap
Nicky is on staff at UTS Sadie. You could look up their website. Robin. - Original Message - From: Sadie Geraghty To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 3:45 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Nicky Leap Does anyone have an e-mail address for Nicky leap? Would really appreciate it if you could send it to me off list, thanks, Sadie
Re: [ozmidwifery] sydney morning herald
interesting date on your email, Justine. :-) We talked about this article a lot yesterday in my workplace. It's certainly caused a stir. Robin - Original Message - From: Justine Caines [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: OzMid List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 01, 1904 12:37 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] sydney morning herald Hi Claire and all I was contacted at 6.48 am (and anyone who knows me knows that's dangerous!) by ABC NSW to make comment. I also called in on ABC Sydney 702. I then alerted Barb Vernon at ACMI who was able to secure a spot on the national coverage of PM (just before 6pm tonight) She was great and argued that a randomised control trial is just SO unethical. This may sound strange but sometimes the most repugnant stuff is actually a blessing as it gets people questioning the former unquestioned/able. Letters to the SMH would be good Address [EMAIL PROTECTED] Justine Has anyone else read the article in the smh about the possible research into vaginal versus caesarian, which is better? The article is very anti the idea, but does anyone know more about it. I can't believe there are people with money who could give it for this, there are so many more worthwhile things to research and I can't possibly understand what previous research could justify this. I am confused as to how this possible tragedy to women could be about to happen. Are we heading for extinction of the human race? I will type the article in if anyone wants to see it, it is pretty unreal. Claire Saxby _ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] presentation - words of wisdom?
Andrea, and Cas, I fully concur with both your (list of) comments. And Nola, I hope you find something useful from my little rant. I've simply run out of puff, and choose, after many, many years of being an open and enthusiastic labour ward midwife to not work there at present. Maybe later I'll go back to it, but for now i'm not sure. There is little joy to be found there on a daily basis. The joy that I found in working with women who marvelled at labour as an event in which they found strength and passion. And for women who could understand that one day of pain would impact positively on life events for years to come.I just dont see this anymore.And that was where my job satisfaction was found. It didnt matter if they went pain free or drug free so much, just that their psyche blossomed during the event.I gained immense pleasure in being part of that process. Now everywhere i see dread and foreboding of the pain process. so sad. The other lack of motivation stems from these issues: The barrage of medical dominance and oppression. Then the resulting intimidation by peers who want to 'keep the peace', and lastly as Cas commented, the women who snortingly believe that any desire to experience this event without any intervention marks you as 'crazy'. It's way too hard for me. Still, I cant help the desire to fight on as the further I go, the more I believe in the beauty of an 'active' birth. I've stopped sticking up for poor skills. I tell patients to ponder about paying their gaps if they've left hospital with massive pph's,wound infections,dodgy stitchwork. I tell them to ring their doctors and ask why, when they're paying a $5,000 gap do they only warrant one visit in 6 days? One father came to the desk of our unit the other day and wanted to know why his wife didnt get a private room because she was having a c/s. I just had to tell him that 50% of women any given week can have a c/s and unfortunately they're just not 'special' any more. In fact, we decided that it should be the women who labour long and ferociously with no intervention that should have the private rooms! However, I do believe things will change. This is a time of change and I firmly believe it wont be long before some woman sues her obstetrician ( or rather her partner does) because he never told her of the climbing rates of maternal mortality due to the increasing c/s rate when she requested her elective c/s. It's going to happen. I can feel it in my bones. But, Andrea, there are strong midwives still around. Midwives who've had a gutful of the nonsense they see and hear from all sides. Midwives who value less their job than their integrity for the profession. We're still out there and we're kicking up dust . Robin - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] presentation - words of wisdom? Hello Nola, I have to add a comment on this one, as I have been the main promoter of active birth in Australia for 20 years! I think an active birth is becoming a rarity in the bigger hospitals around Australia (but not impossible) for a number of reasons, some of which are: * A lack of skills (and sometimes motivation) amongst midwives. As epidurals take hold, midwives forget how to get a woman through transition, how to do observations with her off the bed and certainly how to support her in an upright labour and birth, to name a few exsamples. * The perception that active birth is old hat when it is just as fresh and vital as every woman that will give birth today and tomorrow. I feel that midwives should be reminded regularly of the basics and underpinning philosophy because it is so easy for standards to slip and tricks of the trade to be forgotten. * A lack of support from experienced midwives, who could show the students and graduates how it is done. Every student I have ever had in a workshop over the years has said that they were not taught the basics in their training, so it is imperative that the necessary knowledge and practical skills be passed on my midwives on the job. * The chronic shortage of staff (often a problem in non woman or midwife -friendly workplaces) puts additional pressure on the midwives left to face the daily struggle. It may seem easier to just fill the labouring woman up with an epidural, plug in the electronic baby-sitter (CTG) and get on with the paperwork. Interventions add to the midwives' workload, not reduce it. * The inability (unwillingness?) of midwifery managers to rid the maternity staff of dinosaur midwives who are resistant to change and block innovations, improved services and supportive practices. This would never happen in other areas of medicine, where staff who did not keep up with evidence based care and demonstrate best practice would be asked to leave pronto. These undermining midwives are not necessarily the older staff, but are
Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac?
Here you go Lois, http://www.colinheaney.com/ but half the pleasure is picking out the hundreds of different colours he uses in the glass. It really is the most wonderful studio to visit, (and I'm lucky enough to be going up there again in a few weeks time) cheers, Robin. - Original Message - From: Lois Wattis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Dear Robin, I had a look at this website and I'd like to know if it is possible to order these directly from Colin Heaney in Byron Bay, rather than via the website which is USA based, and US$ ph etc. Any ideas? Regards, Lois - Original Message - From: Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 6:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Jo, what about using the goddess of fertility on your table? Colin Heaney in Byron Bay does a beautiful glass sculpture of her. I have two of these little scuptures because they're so beautiful to hold and feel. http://www.yoni.com/cheaney/goddesses1.shtml. Also, I too think we should be digging at the issue of routine Vitamin K. Any research to stir the pot would be useful, as it's so entrenched in our hospitals. Or, if you really want to stir people up, why not research the current favourite policy of suggesting that ALL babies be Hep B immunised, and the link into disturbance of estblishing breast feeding? cheers, Robin - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? jo, i can't think of any research ideas at the moment. however, and idea for artwork i have been meaning to do myself but as a sculpture is the classic breastfeeding mother looking down on her babe, bubs hand on mothers breast. love Bethany -Original Message- From: Lois Wattis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 2 August 2003 15:06 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Hi Jo! (HUG!!) Great to hear from you. Idea's for a Masters.. hmmm - how about something about vitamin K administration (especially intramuscular injection at birth), and it's (suspected) link to increased rates of jaundice in newborns. Do babies given oral vit K have less incidence of jaundice requiring phototherapy? Do babies who are not given vitamin K at all have the same or less incidence of jaundice? It seems to me a high number of babies born in hospitals seem to develop jaundice which requires phototherapy. Could the common denominator be the IM Vit. K?? causing increased viscosity of the circulating blood, so therefore increased deposition / slower elimination of unconjugated bilirubin? I wonder?. Idea's for a mosaic? What about something similarly constructed to the CMP logo - a picture of a woman and baby in the centre, with the houses and linked figures holding hands around the edge? You've got me thinking about art work now! Take care my friend, love Lois - Original Message - From: Mrs Joanne M Fisher To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Dear List, I've just returned to Brisbane and have re-joined the list again after spending time in Perth doing some observations for my studies with the fabulous midwives of the CMP - (Hi all you lovely ladies over there). This is a wonderful list to be on and so educatonal. I've been asked by my tutor to talk to the Grad Dip Mid students at ACU in Oct, so I'll be enthusiastically spreading the word of continuous midwifery care. She (my tutor) is also encouraging me to do my Masters, (not sure if I will yet), so I was wondering if anyone out there had suggestions for me for subjects that I could do a small research on. I've never done anything like this before and know nothing about research, (I'm a hospital midwife and have only recently embarked on university studies). I already have some vague ideas but I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas that I haven't thought of. I also want to mosiac my coffee table and would love to do something that symbolized birth/midwives etc, but being a hopeless artist I haven't been able to think of a simple design to do. Can anyone help??? Cheers, Joanne (Fisher) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE
Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac?
Jo, what about using the goddess of fertility on your table? Colin Heaney in Byron Bay does a beautiful glass sculpture of her. I have two of these little scuptures because they're so beautiful to hold and feel. http://www.yoni.com/cheaney/goddesses1.shtml. Also, I too think we should be digging at the issue of routine Vitamin K. Any research to stir the pot would be useful, as it's so entrenched in our hospitals. Or, if you really want to stir people up, why not research the current favourite policy of suggesting that ALL babies be Hep B immunised, and the link into disturbance of estblishing breast feeding? cheers, Robin - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 6:42 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? jo, i can't think of any research ideas at the moment. however, and idea for artwork i have been meaning to do myself but as a sculpture is the classic breastfeeding mother looking down on her babe, bubs hand on mothers breast. love Bethany -Original Message- From: Lois Wattis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 2 August 2003 15:06 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Hi Jo! (HUG!!) Great to hear from you. Idea's for a Masters.. hmmm - how about something about vitamin K administration (especially intramuscular injection at birth), and it's (suspected) link to increased rates of jaundice in newborns. Do babies given oral vit K have less incidence of jaundice requiring phototherapy? Do babies who are not given vitamin K at all have the same or less incidence of jaundice? It seems to me a high number of babies born in hospitals seem to develop jaundice which requires phototherapy. Could the common denominator be the IM Vit. K?? causing increased viscosity of the circulating blood, so therefore increased deposition / slower elimination of unconjugated bilirubin? I wonder?. Idea's for a mosaic? What about something similarly constructed to the CMP logo - a picture of a woman and baby in the centre, with the houses and linked figures holding hands around the edge? You've got me thinking about art work now! Take care my friend, love Lois - Original Message - From: Mrs Joanne M Fisher To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 9:50 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Dear List, I've just returned to Brisbane and have re-joined the list again after spending time in Perth doing some observations for my studies with the fabulous midwives of the CMP - (Hi all you lovely ladies over there). This is a wonderful list to be on and so educatonal. I've been asked by my tutor to talk to the Grad Dip Mid students at ACU in Oct, so I'll be enthusiastically spreading the word of continuous midwifery care. She (my tutor) is also encouraging me to do my Masters, (not sure if I will yet), so I was wondering if anyone out there had suggestions for me for subjects that I could do a small research on. I've never done anything like this before and know nothing about research, (I'm a hospital midwife and have only recently embarked on university studies). I already have some vague ideas but I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas that I haven't thought of. I also want to mosiac my coffee table and would love to do something that symbolized birth/midwives etc, but being a hopeless artist I haven't been able to think of a simple design to do. Can anyone help??? Cheers, Joanne (Fisher) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Examination
we've all done this in our life times I'm sure! I can remember calling the obstetrician for delivery, thinking all while that whilst I had felt her to be fully, she wasnt behaving fully. I should have listened to my inner voice. She was only 3cms. rgh. nowadays, I have learnt that the head or membranes or very thin cervix wall all feel different. Next time you've got a really posterior thin cervix, take time to 'feel' how that feels different from the latter two. The other trick i use is getting the women to sit on their hands if you're not immediately sure of what you're feeling. It has the effect of swinging the pelvis forward and allows you a different 'view' of the VE. Dont waste too much time stressing. We've all done it. Robin - Original Message - From: Neretlis, Bethany [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Examination ive not made this mistake but have had another midwife chech ve's as i was very unsure of a similar situation. as other have said try not to beat yourself up over it, we have all done something similar at one time or another. it is an excellent goad to try not to repeat the mistake though. i have come up with a few little tricks to ensure i don't make mistakes i have made in the past again. love Bethany -Original Message- From: Andrea Quanchi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 31 July 2003 19:10 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Vaginal Examination Jean You are certainly not alone in this as sometimes it can be really hard to tell what you are feeling. Sometimes you put your fingers into the anterior fornix and can feel the head through the vaginal wall which is stretched so thin that you can hardly feel it. You feel the baby so well that the natural assumption is that you are in the cervix. In this case the cervix is often so posterior that you cant find it without making the woman really uncomfortable. I'd like to meet the midwife who can claim never to have made this mistake. Practice wil help and I would suggest starting with women who are likely to be more dilated and therfore easier to ascertain. then work backwards. Even better have someone who is confident do the VE first and then have them talk you through what they could feel as you are doing it. This is a really good way to realise what you are actually feeling. The trouble with all this is that none of it is good for the woman as it often interrupts the flow of the labour. If you can discuss it with the women before they are in labour it might be easier for everyone. Women understand the need for us to learn and are usually more than willing to co operate if it is approached in the right way. Andrea Q On Tuesday, July 29, 2003, at 07:17 PM, Steve Docherty wrote: I would like to ask any midwives if they have ever completly stuffed up a vaginal examination as I would dearly love some reassurance that I'm not going completly mad. I have been a partime Midwife for 4 years, have not had a lot of labour ward experience but enough to not make stupid mistakes. I was looking after a primip who had SROM at term the day before and was having niggly contractions 2-3-in10. I was looking after her overnight, she was a private patient . She had had some pethidine overnight to get some sleep and the idea was to start syntocinon in the am if she hadn't got into active labour. Four hours after the pethidine wore off this was about 0500am she was wanting some more pain relief and was considering an epidural before the syntocinon started. I suggested doing a vaginal examination as she looked as though things were picking up slightly. I did a v.e. and thought I felt 5cm dilated. fully effaced -1. I handed this over to the day shift and anther vaginal examination wasnt done until 6 hours later, at this exam she was 2cm posterior 0.5 cm thick -2 . I keep asking myself what was I feeling to get my result?. It did cross my mind that she was too comfortable looking but this can be deceiving at times. I probably didnt go posteriorly enough , but I thought I felt the rim of the cervix in the mid position???. I'm now not on labour ward as I rotate so cannot do more vaginal exams to help myself feel more confident. I will just have to wait until I work on labour ward again and do some much needed practise. The woman went on to have syntocinon and an epidural and had a ventouse delivery early the following morning. I have apologised to the woman and she was very forgiving but I still feel very angry with myself for extending her time of induction. Thanks for reading Jean -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. --
Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac?
Snap. :-) I should have read this before I sent the previous post! Robin - Original Message - From: Sheena Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Any ideas for research and mosiac? Joanne how about the effect of giving Hep B vaccinations to newborns. Does it interfere with the establishment of successful breastfeeding, what other implications does it have and is it really necessary. Not sure how you work that into a research topic, but I am sure someone out there could be of help. Regards Sheena Johnson
Re: [ozmidwifery] Preceptorships
Research that supports the usage of midwives as preceptors for students. Thanks for your info, Jen. Robin - Original Message - From: Jen Semple To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Preceptorships Robin, are you after references in terms of research evidence or in terms of what other hospitals are doing? I'm a 2nd year Bachelor of Midwifery student @ VU in Melbourne. I did my last set of clinical placements @ Werribee-Mercy hospital was most impressed with their preparation for us, which included an extensive "manual" for us. (03) 9216 is the phone for the switchboard 7 ask for Clinical Midwifery Educators. Hope this helps! JenRobin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am looking for references pertaining to the use of preceptors in thehospital system forstudent midwives.Any help would be appreciated.Thank you,Robin Yahoo! Mobile- Check compose your email via SMS on your Telstra or Vodafone mobile.
[ozmidwifery] Preceptorships
I am looking for references pertaining to the use of preceptors in the hospital system for student midwives. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Robin -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] ACMI Appointment
the address is slightly wrong. Take the 'so' off the end of the 'html' sequence. Andrea must have been so excited her fingers moved too fast. :-) Robin - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 8:12 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] ACMI Appointment Hi Julie, My Diary is working for me... have another try! Cheers Andrea At 06:40 PM 12/07/2003, Julie Clarke wrote: Hi Andrea Excellent news Tried reading your diary but not available hug Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224. T. (02) 9544 6441 Mobile 0401 2655 30 - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] sun baths for jundice
just to be picky, the sun's rays in Hobart are a lot stronger than those say in Melbourne or Sydney. I spent many childhood christmas's there getting thoroughly sunburnt. It has something to do with the angle the sun shines I believe. However, anywhere these days you can feel the difference in the rays from how they were 30 years ago. I had to be very vigilant with my North American niece when she lived with us for 3 months. Her concept of time in the sun for a tan was substantially longer than she could do here in Sydney. Robin From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 12:26 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] sun baths for jundice I was talking about Seattle, Washington where the sunlight is very very different than here. A sun bath in Seattle is a very different thing to a sunbath in Townsville, Cairns or probably anywhere except Hobart in Australia. Neverhless i took it for granted it would be indirect sun. marilyn - Original Message - From: M T Holroyd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:51 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] sun baths for jundice Hi, just aquick question after Marilyn talked of sun baths for jaundice (below). What is the latest info on this? When I had my daughter in Townsville 9+ years ago I was told when she developed jaundice to sun her religously in am pm for a few days between SBR's. I was told this again when my second child was born (7 years ago), but this time in sunlight filtered by window. Then when he was8 months old I started my midwifery education (in Townsville) we were taught that it was no longer safe we were not to advise parents to do this (due to high skin cancer rates in N.Q). What is common practice regarding this. I have come across midwives still recommeding to sun. Tina H. Brisbane - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 1:00 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] whats happening ? Hi Lynne: yes it is weird how transfers can cluster sometimes. Exhausting. Regarding the Mg SO4 and BP, one young woman I worked with in Seattle developed high BP after we made the hospital transfer(we transferred for maternal exhaustion, she had been labouring hard for 2 days and was still 3cm, BP had been stable at home, no other sx except that she had had heartburn/reflux throughout the pregnancy and i have wondered since if this masked any epigastric pain) anyway BP went from 120/70 at home to 138/88 on arrival at hospital, to 144/90 to finally 160/100, this was after the epidural but while we were awaiting the stat liver function tests which the ob ordered "just in case" actually apologising for ordering them as we all thought the elevated BP wasdue to the stress of the transfer.She had HELLP syndrome, so Mg SO4 and much careful monitoring, she went to complete in 2hrs and pushed her baby out in between vomitting from the Mg SO4. There was thick to mod mec liquor too, baby was 8lb and vigorous at birth. She stayed in hospital 3 days on meds until her bloods were normal and BP stable, baby very jaundiced really should have had phototherapy but parents declined and went home. Mum also somewhat jaundiced (I guess the hemolysis). Baby was under paediatric care, lost 10% in first week, milk took a good 7 days to really come in once it did baby made a slow but steady weight gain. WE, the midwives were somewhat anxious, but paed was ok with it doing homevisits and sun baths for baby (trust me the UV index in Seattle is not to be worried about). Long story, sorry. So yes the milk did come in just later. marilyn - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] whats happening ? Hi Jan Must be something in the water - I had3 t/f to hosp as well in the past 2 months. One - a primigravida - C/B after BP shot through the roof antenatally and SROM at 37 weeks. She did labour, but for whatever reason, her body did not open, and her BP sneaking up higher and higher despite Mg So4 and hydrallazine. Home now but lactation did not establish and she has tried everything. Is anyone aware of MgSo4 or hydrallazine
Re: [ozmidwifery] Cervidil mailout
touche, Lynne. How did they get our addresses? And truly,? what is the point of it? As hospital midwives we dont have any say about what gets utilised, it is just lumped upon us. Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cervidil mailout What I am reading into this is that the College did not have any part in sending a list of ACMI member details to this firm? Am I correct, or have I missed something here? If the rep from this company said she obtained the list through the College hiring it out, and Vanessa has said that the ACMI refuses to sell its mailing list to anyone, what exactly has happened here? As members we do have a right to know. If the ACMI has sent on the brochures, as a means by which its members can be informed about new products relating to maternity care, why this particular product? I am sure there are many more 'worthy' medications that are of greater interest, ethically more acceptable (but probably do not generate as much revenue) and utilised more appropriately than this one is sure to be. - Original Message - From: Carol Thorogood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Cervidil mailout Dear all I too was a bit concerned about the list's e-mails over the Cervidil so I thought I'd go straight to el presidento and ask Vanessa herself. As is her wont she responded by phone within two hours and so here's a summary of her response. Despite many requests to do so and the profits involved the ACMI refuses to sell its mailing list to anyone.What it does do if it thinks there are good professional and ethical reasons to do so (for example the recent Ant D mail out sent to all of us) is to arrange for the organisation to send the ACMI the brochures and envelopes etc. Incidently the ACMI will not support mail outs for stuff that contravenes WHO code etc. It vets all the requests for mail outs very carefully to make sure they fit the ACMI's Code of Ethics. The ACMI then sends the stuff out themselves. Usually organisations such as the ACMI charge for the work this service involves. By the way Nurses Boards in Oz follow exactly the same policy. the rest of this e-mail is from me. I hope this allays fears that members of the ACMI are going to be inundated with ads. I understand that Cervidil may be out of the range of community midwives' scope of practice but in all likelihood ( whether they want to or not) the majority of oz-list members will be using it sooner rather than later. Thus I think Cervidil falls into the range of 'ethical products' which I think we need to be informed about. I suppose if members object to this system then they can ask that their name be withdrawn from all mailing lists! Having said this it is probably too hard for the ACMI to determine which bits we want to be told about and which bits we don't. In other words we get it all or none! Carol -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?
Queen Voctoria started it. Well, they experimented on her and it was she that advocated how wonderful it was! - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:19 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby? Hi, all of you knowledgable women, I was talking to a friend today who said that her sister in law whowas born in the 1940'sclaims to be a "twilight baby"? Apparently her mother - who has passed away now and cannot explain the reason - had her first child as a natural delivery - the second was this weird delivery where she went into hospital on her due day not in labour- got put to sleep and then woke up having delivered the baby vaginally while asleep or in twilight! The next two were normal, natural births. Does anyone know about this practice - obviously not done now days - i presume! She was curious about how it was done and why it may have been done. Any ideas? Regards Rhonda. IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here image/gif
Re: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy - when to cut?
oh, arent protocols cruel everything is wrong for her there, Jo. As Nikki says, pushingat her own pace and in a position that allowed gravity to help all help.IN the position you describe, she's actually pushing uphill, with the coccyxbeing sat on which reduces available space and her body and lungs are all compressed. I guess the protocols also dictated that she must start pushing from the minute 2nd stage begins? So she's dead exhausted when the head finally hits the peri? And has no energyto actually slow the head down during it's exit? I have found that slowing the head down even just by a contraction or two helps enormously. It allows the surrounding tissues to accomodate this sudden insult. Let the head spend more time stretching the perineum, and let the head bejust breathed out, rather than pushed will go a long way toachieving a gentle exit. If we're exercising we dont achieve maximum stretch the first time we try the splits. We get better with each little effort. In a compact way this is the same with the peri. If the women are told ( both during labour and very gently and encouragingly at the time) they understand that it will be beneficial to them afterwards and usually are very keen to help themselves. Heat applied to the peri and birthing in water also help this scenario. The stranded beetle position you describe Jo, will be ingrained on you forever as you learn first hand the horrible effects it has on women. I cant think of one good thing about it. Robin - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 12:55 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy - when to cut? Hi Nikki. As most women are where I work, she was semi-sitting; she was "chin on your chest, big breath, PUSH, quick breath and push again!" style pushing; and she was not following her own urges - that would have taken too long! 3 big long pushes per contraction. Anyone pushing more than 1 hour needs intervention... Jo - Original Message - From: Nikki Macfarlane To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy - when to cut? Jo, What a frustrating situation for you, her other caregivers and of course the woman herself. Can I ask what position she was in when she was pushing. Also,how she was pushing - following her own urge with everyone following her pace or with counting, held breath and purple pushing? Nikki MacfarlaneChildbirth Internationalwww.childbirthinternational.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] Distance training for the world's childbirth educators and doulas - Original Message - From: JoFromOz To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:59 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Episiotomy - when to cut? Hi all fellow midwives and students and all :) Looking after a woman last night who was a primigravida, term, induction for SROM, not in labour. RMO needed birth experience, so he did the catching. He did not cut an episiotomy, and nor would I have, but this woman ended up with horrible tears, in all directions, almost to the clitoris on both sides. We were 'scolded' by the consultant for not doing an episiotomy.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Workloads - doing something about it
a slight skewed observation to the conversation, but I once knew a num who told her staff on the early discharge program that they only needed 15 minutes per woman per visit. Therefore they could come back and take a patient load in the unit as well. Impossible to measure how much time is needed when being with women. In fact, I often find the mistakes i make with documentation or time management occur when I have spent much time talking, listening, debriefing and just being with them. I've literally forgotten the paperwork in lieu of what I believe is a higher priority. Unfortunately the hospital system does not recognise this input in their DRG's, and does not value this input enough to support midwives who do this. Robin. - Original Message - From: Sandra J. Eales [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 11:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Workloads - doing something about it Nurses and their unions have been struggling with tools for workload management for a long time. The ratios in Victoria look promising as you say but I imagine there will still be inherent problems as Marilyn mentioned the complexity needs to be taken into account. but more than the medical complexity. Two women with the same DRG may require quite different levels of midwifery time. Medically they may be judged uncomplicated because they had a spontaneous vaginal birth but one will breeze through it and the next will be very traumatised and need much more support to recover emotionally and physically to be able make the transition to motherhood, breastfeeding, parentcraft. The problem comes down to articulating and measuring the value of nursing or midwifery work The most valuable part of caring for a woman is the being with her - talking her thru the hard parts and coaching her to relax, rubbing her back or showing the partner what to do in, supporting her physically and emotionally. This isn't properly measured though - For most tools that try to measure workloads, jobs are broken down to tasks - doing observations, giving medications. The value of the time that is used by a midwife in being with a labouring woman or a vulnerable postnatal mum trying to breastfeed, or the nurse who stops running for a moment to comfort the sick or dying by just being with them. Nurses and midwives don't articulate the value of this part of our job and are as likely to criticise those who do. The clients appreciate it and know that this is one of the most important elements of our job but where is it expressed in terms of workload justification. Deep within us when know we have done a good job and have job satisfaction only when we have this time to be with our clients. Too often nurses and midwives spend their whole work day racing frantically from one task to the next without making the deeper connection required for caring and healing. We are the only ones who can make this time available. We need to recognise the value of caring and demand the time to do it properly. Sandra - Original Message - From: Heartlogic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 3:49 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Bullying - doing something about it Hmmm, you Barb and Sandra are amazing. Both being active in the union and doing what needs to be done! How sensible. I had drifted away from the union idea and hadn't been a member for ages, thinking that the union didn't have midwifery issues at heart and so was no longer relevant to me. It never occurred to me to become more active in the union, which would have been a far better plan I realise now. A position I now realise was the result of my version of learned helplessness, didn't think I could make a difference through that pathway. It has only been since coming in out of the wilderness (homebirth practice) and seeing how it is for my colleagues and students, not to mention the director of nursing who had been sidelined so much from the role of managing nursing (and midwifery)and who has been subjected to corporate bullying... g... that I felt moved to do something strategically intelligent instead of whinging and/or feeling aggrieved (which was VERY tempting and which I am still seeking to avoid doing :-) The position of the Realnurses team on the many complex issues facing our twin professions also gives me real hope. We can make a difference. Interesting looking at Victorian facts and stats about ratios for example - read on if you are interested... in solidarity ;-) Carolyn Hastie Council candidate, Realnurses and Midwives team (NSWNA Election June 03) www.realnurses.net I thought you would be interested in what is happening about ratios, so have included the following information: The Realnurses team are committed to delivering mandatory, enforceable nurse to patient ratios encompassing acuity and safe skill
Re: [ozmidwifery] Talk to year 10's
my girls ( 15, 18, 20) have always plied me for stories of my deliveries. They know that women birth in baths, under showers, on toilets, breeches can birth face first into bean bags ( didnt plan on that one!),that thelabour can be full of laughter and silliness,and have always rushed off and told their friends.Get togethersat our place consist of the daughters plying me for more stories so the friends can listen in. I think some kids of today have an innate sense that women can be powerful during birth and that it can be a wonderful event to look forward to. Afterall, that's what this generation of parents has worked so hard for, to make young women that are confident and outspoken and aware of their own rights. It's a really really rich environment, being around teenage girls. - Original Message - From: jo hunter To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Talk to year 10's Natalie and I gave some similar talks to 14 15 year old girls about the joys and benefits of particularly homebirth but also midwifery led care. We had such a ball, as did they and many of them at the end of the session said that they would definately have a homebirth and/or waterbirth. This particular teacher is running such a fantastic program, which includes the girls taking home 'virtual babies' for 3 days and nights. One girl said she was exhausted because her baby was waking up every 2 hours and would only sleep if it was in the bed next to her - sound familiar? This type of community education is so important, we volunteered our time through HAS to run these sessions, shame it's not financially supported by local Govt. Hopefully they'll take the information with them into womanhood! Jo Hunter - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 9:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Talk to year 10's Went to speak to a group of year 10 girls (and one boy) today as part of their childcare unit.Had only an hour in which to cover a variety of issues, but it was heartening to hear that these girls believed (without prompting) that the best person to look after a lady during pregnancy and birth was a midwife and not an OB, and that babies could be born as easily at home (and in water) than in a hospital. They did believe that the best position to labour and birth was on your back, but after a bit of pelvis exploring, they concluded that upright was far better.One girls said that women should pay more if they chose to have a section without medical need :-)Felt much cheered by my visit. Debbie
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Letter in Today's West Australian
Title: Re: Letter in Today's West Australian whoa, the word that rankles me most in that letter is 'rightly'. Therein lies the crux of the problem. The women EXPECT everything will go perfectly. Surely we're letting them down by having this myth perpetuated. As hard as we try, outcomes have not changed significantly in recent years. Robin - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 5:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Letter in Today's West Australian The Letter Mary Murphy referred to was this one in TodayÂ’s West AustralianLetters to the Editor02 April 2003You want the job? I HAVE worked as a midwife and I have been appalled at some of the letters about obstetricians that have graced these pages. I believe that the main issue is the high indemnity insurance that these doctors have to pay. However, instead of lashing out at insurance companies or lawyers, most people seem to be having a go at the doctors.Not to be outdone, there are also midwives using this crisis for their own political purposes. They know that at the end of the day, if something has gone wrong (and it does go wrong more often than the public is aware) the buck stops with the obstetrician. The pregnant women of today rightly expect that all will go perfectly with their pregnancy, labour and birth. If things don't go as planned and there is a less than satisfactory outcome, the obstetrician is almost always the one they blame. If midwives want to take on this job, good luck to them.S. KEOGH, Busselton.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B Vaccine at Birth
Wow, at last someone has eloquently described something that has been bothering me for ages. Well Done, Sandra. Does anyone have references to support this argument? Because, we're gonna need them if we can effect any change. Robin - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:37 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B Vaccine at Birth Marilyn wrote: "Sandra you are so brave." A long time agoe some ancient philosopher wrote something like this: "In order for evil to flourish, good men do nothing" I think that covers Sandra's stand. MM - Original Message - From: Sandra J. Eales To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 6:30 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Hep B Vaccine at Birth I have previously expressed concerns related to the administration of Hep B Vaccine (HBV) to all babes at birth ie that the midwives in my unit had become aware of marked increase in numbers of irritable babes and many more with breastfeeding difficulties in the first few days, since May 2000 when the new schedule was introduced. Sincethen we have done some investigation and as we became convinced of the connection we have been much more conscientious aboutgaining "informed consent" prior to administration of birth dose of Hep B ie "full disclosure of risks/benefits without coercion or fraud". As a result, parents are not consentingand the rate of uptake of the birth dose in our unit has dropped off dramatically.(It is generally much nicer to come to work these days too with fewer screaming babies, distraught mothers and frantic fathers!) We (the midwives) are nowcopping flak because we show up very large on the radar in the 'Early Warning System' of theauthorities pushing the universal immunisation issue. The pressure to conform has come from Public Health Unit, District Manager, Medical Superintendent as well as letters of complaint from a local GP (who may be fearful that he will lose his incentive payments if the children who return to hispractice have missedthe birth dose!). We have been told that we must "actively encourage" our clients to accept the vaccination..that "it is frequently reported that the unit works well because of the high degree of trust and respect. Herein lies the opportunity to disseminate the positive effect of early Hepatitis vaccination" We have been told that we must "act in line with the Code of Conduct"to actively promote this policy. I do believe this is a terribly important ethical issue and will not persuade my clients to act against there best interests and instincts. We use the materials and information provided by Qld Health and "immunise Australia"when we discuss the issue with the parents.It is acknowledged in the "Understanding infant hepatitis B immunisation" pamphlet put out by the "immunise Australia Program" that among the common side effects are mild fever, joint pain, irritability and baby going "off its food for a short time". - discuss how this might affect their newborn in the first few days of life. Whilst these common and perhaps transient side effects may be of little concern in an older child they are liable to be of much greater significance in a newborn child who is already facing many challenges at this deeply important point in its life. Challenges to the newborn (physiological and iatrogenic pathology) adaptation to extrauterine life – profound physical changes in all systems respiratory, circulatory, neurological, sensory, digestive/alimentary organisation of suck to enable feed overcome effects of pharmacological substances used in labour, birth an postnatally recovery from the traumatic effect of birth eg head moulding and other birth injury We also give them the Qld Health Hep B Informationwhich has this advice "give extra fluids e.g more breast feeds or water" - we discuss the implication of thisat initiation of breastfeeding. We also discuss the risk factors for contracting the disease both in infancy and throught the lifespan. All women are screened for HBsAg antenatally so that babes of HB positive mothers can receive both Immunoglobulin and vaccination at birth. This has been shown to be extremely effective in managing the risk of vertical (mother to baby) transmission The risk factors (for contracting the disease) are IV drug use, unsafe sexual practices and certain ethnic groups have high endemnicity so may have a slightly
[ozmidwifery] Cord Clamping -
Here's some interesting reading for a Sunday morning. http://www.mercola.com/2003/mar/8/umbilical_cord.htm Robin
Re: [ozmidwifery] Oxytocin Trust
i hope someone finds some info, I'm busting to find out how Oxytocin and Trust go together. :-) Robin - Original Message - From: Alphia Garrety To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Oxytocin Trust Searched Radio National for this- are you sure it was on this date? have not been able to bring up any mention of it.At 07:45 AM 5/03/03 -0800, you wrote: Did any Radio National Breakfast listeners hear the report on Oxytocin and trust on Monday 3/3/03?If so do you have the reference for the study??DeniseAlphia Possamai-Inesedy Ba (Hons.)PhD. CandidateSchool of Applied and Human SciencesBankstown Campus, University of Western SydneyUWS Locked Bag 1797South Penrith Distribution CentreNSW 1797 AustraliaPhone: 02 97726628Fax: 02 97726584
[ozmidwifery] Today in Parliament...
New member for Victoria Kirsty Marshall, ( ex-aerial skier) was kicked out of Question Time with her 11 day old baby because she commenced breastfeeding during the session. Her baby was with her because Grandma who was supposed to be babysitting had temporarily gone missing The reason given for her removal was twofold, apparently; 1) no strangers are allowed during Question Time. 2) no eating or drinking is allowed during Question Time. Oh my... Robin. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] breech presentation at term/Moxa
thank you Ladies, you're a fountain of knowledge! Robin - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 11:37 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] breech presentation at term/Moxa Quoting directly from my text book... Moxa is made from the herb Artemesia Vulgaris (chrysanthemum). It can produce heat.. it is pure Yang in nature having the ability to restore the primary yang from collapse. It can open the 12 regular meridians to regulate qi and blood, expel cold and dampness, warm the uterus, stop bleeding, warm the spleen stomach to remove stagnation, regulate menstruation and ease the fetus. It can be applied directly (wool), by stick or attatched to a needle. When I was attending the Traditional Medicine Training College in Quanshou (China) I was astounded to enter a treatment room and see 6 people all lying on beds with about 6 smoking needles in the various meridians. It was being used for treatment of arthritis, but it looked like the patients were all on fire- It is highly valued in traditional Chinese Medicine. MM Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 12:54 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] re: breech presentation at term Hi Robin, Mxibustion works by stimulating the abdominal meridien and that in turn stirs up a biochemical reaction that eventually encourages the baby to turn. I have a detailed explanation from a Chinese Acupuncure textbook that sets out the process with a diagram - it is very technical and I make no attempt to remember it! If you want to know more about how it is done and the RCT that proved its worth, check out http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/andrea13.html Cheers Andrea At 07:23 PM 24/02/2003, Robin Moon wrote: Can someone tell me why moxibustion works with breech presentations? I dont understand how ' incense' stuck between toes can turn a breech? ( please excuse my woefully ignorant understanding!!) Robin - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] thumb or dummy!?
Dummy, Television, Bouncinettes, Learning to climb out of cot and turn on video at 3, etc, they're all the same. I consider them to be tools of the trade. They supplemented my parenting skills by giving me some space to catch my breath. I'm eternally grateful for all of them and not for one second would I consider that my girls ( deliciously revolting teenagers who adore their parents) were ever compromised psychologically by them. It's a bit like that verse in the Old Testament that tells us 'wine was made to gladden the hearts of men'. ( oh, where is that again?) A little, used judiciously is great, too much can be a different tale. *gets off short stubby soap box and wanders away*.. probably to put thumb in mouth to ponder dinner... Robin p.s, Love the Michel Odent quote. He always makes me feel ' normal '. - Original Message - From: Ann green [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] thumb or dummy!? Dear Belinda, I was not trying to be offensive.I was trying to say that if a baby was crying that it was better to give a dummy than the parents becoming frustrated and harming the child.This does not mean that parents using dummies are lazy.I was blessed to have babies that had enough suckling at the breast(or a bottle of E.B.M which was needed for babes 4,5, and 6 for between 4-6 months until they were able to feed at the breast,a long hard haul for everyone -imagine expressing milk for this amount of time with no idea of when it will finish, sorry off the topic)Ann--- Belinda Maier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ann the better than abuse thing is very offensive. My children have breastfed for two years are smart loved and emotionally well developed. They also had dummies apart from my two year old who sucks her thumb. They all had a strong desire to suck and the dummy gave them comfort as well as the two and more hour feeding at the breastfed my children also have healthy teeth. I am not slack or abusive and it really annoys me when judgements are made about dummies thumbs to use or not based on what one does for ones own. Choices are choices based on what a woman feels is best for her child. Michel ODent wrote an article on transcendental objects and said that their use is actually a sign of emotional stability, feeling ok enough to form attachments to such things. I used to allow myself to be made to feel bad as a mother because of my eldest use of a dummy, then my close friends son died of a brain tumour at two years old and her older daughter who had never used a dummy (because she bought into the whole its such a bad mothering thing to do) started to use one and did so until she was nine years old. She now says there are more important things about mothering than stressing about what others think you should be doing. By the way her daughters teeth are fine.The whole I.Q. research needs to be closely looked at for methodology and socioeconomic status of participants, parenting styles etc for it to be worth generalising. I get really fed up with peoples discourses of good mother bad mother, it brings down the confidence of many a good mother. Belinda, mother - Original Message - From: Ann green [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] thumb or dummy!? Dear List, Research was suppose to have shown that the use of dummies was associated with a lower I.Q.I have not used a dummy but understand that for some parents it might be a better choice than abuse.None of my 6 children have sucked thumbs either!Ann --- Jo Slamen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thumbs allegedly don't affect teeth unless still in use at the age of permanent teeth coming through. My teeth are straight (no orthodontic work) and I was a thumb sucker - so much so that I had a callous on my thumb as a young child - stopped when I started primary school. My almost 4yo also a thumb child - his baby teeth are pretty ok looking and I find his thumb use is still useful for going to bed and getting him to sleep. Would also imagine trying to swap baby to a dummy probably won't work. I would relax about the thumb - does not indicate any emotional problems and it's likely to be in use for comfort rather than teething too, I believe. And just to add some personal bias I think thumbs look better than dummies too! Jo Slamen - Original Message - From: J Stewart To: ozmid Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] thumb or dummy!? Dear List(s)! Just looking for a little bit of general advice on an old debate! I have a six month old baby
Re: [ozmidwifery] re: breech presentation at term
Can someone tell me why moxibustion works with breech presentations? I dont understand how ' incense' stuck between toes can turn a breech? ( please excuse my woefully ignorant understanding!!) Robin - Original Message - From: Tom, Tania and Sam Smallwood To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 1:37 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] re: breech presentation at term To all who were so supportive and helpful, My friend has just rung me and informed me that her baby is head down! She had a couple of sessions of accupuncture and moxibustion, which made her baby extremely active, and then saw a chiropractor, and did lots of visualisation, meditation, playing music to her baby, and postural stuff at home, and voila! She is absolutely blown away by the responses from this list, I printed them out for her (thankyou Andrea for the link to your page, the moxibustion stuff was great), and now eagerly awaits labour and hopefully an empowering birth. What a pity she received no encouragement, ideas, or instruction whatsoever from the practitioner she sees as her primary maternity care provider, and pays good money to consult, except that they would wait and see and then if her baby was breech at term she would be booked in for a section. Sad isn't it. Thanks once again Tania
Re: [ozmidwifery] Colitis
I knew of one recently and the only thing they did for her was to induce her early to relieve the pain. The only good thing I can offer is that people with chronic pain often cope with labour pain really easily - because they're so used to accepting and managing it instead of trying to escape. Poor thing, some people have such burdens? Robin - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Colitis Can anyone help me with a problem for one of my clients: 28 weeks, 1st baby, suffering from colitis and getting worse - main symptom seems to be rectal bleeding, which she says happens 3 times a day. Otherwise very fit (yoga, gym, power walks daily) and healthy (very diet conscious). From what I have read, there is not much she can do - drugs are contraindicated and the pregnancy hormones are probably exacerbating the condition, which will improve once the baby arrives. Any suggestions most welcome! Many thanks, Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required
Title: URGENT Advice Required Caladryl Lotion ( as opposed to Calamine Lotion) can be bought over the counter in Chemists. It is the same as Calamine except that it has some local anasthetic ( benzocaine, xylocaine, something 'caine ) in it. - Original Message - From: Joy Cocks To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required Hi Justine, I had a similar type of rash in late pregnancy and following the birth of my youngest (who is now 27!) and, although I took antihistamines back then when we didn't know so much about the effects, I found a paste made of carb soda mixed with a little water was very soothing. All the best to your friend. Joy Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLCBRIGHT Vic 3741 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2003 19:56 Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required Hello AllI have a friend who had a bub on Saturday and since she was in labour on Friday she has had a severe heat type looking rash (GP/Ob) says itÂ’s pregnancy something or other and did not offer much in the way of remedy. It is very red and raised and itchy like hell, also the heat affects it (and we live in Nthrn NSW!) she has large patches over abdo/ top of legs etc.Antihistamines are out of the question with breastfeeding I believe, the babe is feeding beautifully so it would be great to help with the rash so Mum does not consider giving up BF. She is currently bathing in an oatmeal product and applying a soothing cream with oatmeal in it.Any super remedies??Thanks a bunchJustine
[ozmidwifery] Attention Lynne Staff
I apologise at capturing your attention this way. :-) I am worried that you still havent received my email replies to yours. I have sent one to your alternate address this week, so I hope you know that I am not being slack! cheers, Robin
Re: [ozmidwifery] birthing in dam water
Not stupid at all, Frank. The point you missed was this. Women dont birth in water for buoancy, they birth in it for pain relief. whatever is the most helpful is what you do. Robin. - Original Message - From: Frank Jockel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birthing in dam water Hi, I just have to give my two bob's worth regarding water births... I think water births are the STUPIDEST idea since the Irish decided to land on the sun at night. What happens when you push a ball under water? Its bouyancy makes it pop UP A baby has bouancy too. So unless the mother is willing to wear a snorkel and mask and be upside down, pointing her perineum at the surface, the baby is fighting bouancy and the uterus is fighting bouancy... stupid. Get out of the water and onto a birthing chair where you belong and let Gravity do the work Water for fish.. Regards, Frank Jockel ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, 07 December 2002 03:41:26 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [ozmidwifery] birthing in dam water Could people tell me of their experiences with birthing in dam water, we really don't have enough rainwater on site to use, this dam water is used for general washing etc it runs through the solar hotwater service but is quite turbid, yours in midwifery pete malavisi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. . -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
You might be able to track it down through ACE Graphics even. I think the video was actually made around ' 85 as I was teaching ante-natal classes with PCA then and one of my supervisors on the course was one of the parents in that video, so I remember it well. The story of little Cosmo. Robin - Original Message - From: Julie Garratt To: ozmid Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together DearLieve, There is a wonderful Australian video called "Some Babies Die" It was produced in Sydney in the early nineties and It is available from the library in Mt Barker SA. It mainly follows the journey of one family who give birth to adear baby who lived only hours. The doctor and midwives involved are awe-inspiring to say the least. They continually bring the little babe in to the mother and family in the days following death and allow them to get to know and say goodbye to him.They alsotake photos of himand keep them aside if they are wanted later. This may sound strange but they say that these mementos often have huge valuelater for theparents.The Doctorwho started the program had lost several of his own children shortly after birth and he is just lovely to watch, awonderfulgifted man.I will post more details tomorrow so people can track it down as It is truly excellent and haswon severalawards. I hope all goes well for this brave family and every body involved. It is always so sad to think of anyone one losing a child and this one is obviously so very loved. Julie'', . - Original Message - From: Lieve Huybrechts Sent: Sunday, 1 December 2002 1:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together Dear list,I have a mother due in march. During the ultrasound on 22 weeks the gyndiscovered something was wrong with the heart of the baby. The expertiseultrasound showed that the left side of the heart is not developed. The babywill die soon after birth when the function of cord and placenta will stop.We had a lot of talks then and I was happy to support them in their choicesand to give them information.The parents decided to go on with the pregnancy and to have a homebirth.They enjoy the baby as long as he has to live. She comes to the birthcentreevery week and talks with the other moms and they are also very supportivefor her. I was wondering if someone has excperience with a likely situation and canshare it with me. Warm greetings Lieve--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
" Ifeel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not." You know, I find this statement REALLY scary. I dont mean to be picky ( except I am,) and I'm certainly not directing my thoughts at Rhonda ( although it seems like it), but I really worry about this attitude that seems to be developing within maternity units. And propagatedby misguided managers who think it's good for business. I've 'heard' this over and over in the past few years. Not just verbally, but by suggestion or presumption, or by the idea that midwives are caring for ' families'. How much more of a load can we hospital midwives carry? We have to worry about the woman, about the woman being swallowed by technology and protocol, by corporate management and crazy consumer ideals ( like it being okay to be too posh to push). We're being swallowed by paper work, doubled up with computer programs and bloody machines everywhere , and somewhere in the middle of that we're trying desperately to help a woman and her partner find meaning in their birth. I said before that I love having children at a birth and I will do everything that I can to make thelittleone feel part of the party,but suggesting that we are responsible for them is just too much. Rhonda, I know entirely what you are getting at, there are many families I have met who have brought kids in because they have no support mechanism, and that's a sad thing in itself. But I dont want to be responsible for the child. I want to be with the woman. I want to worry about her, and her only, because if I get it wrong in the hospital system my arse is on the line. Oh how I wish I was a homebirthing midwife. It seems a whole lot more manageable and satisfying. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 1:34 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Sorry I was only quoting what she had said - 'nurses or nursing staff did not help her with the tot. And gee - what was she meant to do? Any ideas! Living about 3 hours drive awayfrom her parents who were driving down to helpshe had 3 close back up child minders and her nighbour had offered - it was her second child of the 4 so she only had one 2 yr old and all 3 people were unreachable and the neighbour was out. I guess she could have left him in the car - perhaps a roasted dead 2 yr old would be less trouble for the staff. I feel that it would be the midwives responsibility to help the familyin this sort of case which would involve some assistance with the toddler regardless if they had planned to have him there or not. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 23:47:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Please midwives not nurses, nursing staff. THE MIDWIFE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SAFETY AND WELLBEING OF MOTHER AND BABY. If anything goes wrong she is responsible, and ends up in court, and has to live with it.Distractions such as toddlers running around can affect everyone present. I once cared for a family where the 3 year old was busy under the bed. I was scared of him hurting himself and or dismantling the bed [I have one myself that could dismantle anything with his busy little fingers]. I agree, a well prepared, lovingly supervised tot is a delight, and I too love the older children to be involved. The question of the lights wouldn't have bothered me, I prefer them off. Who was minding the other kids? Maureen. -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Monday, November 25, 2002 8:41 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) Dear robin, I can understand this attitude but when the parents have made every effort to get help and have been unable to contact anyone (just bad timing rather than bad management) you would expect some understanding and support from the nursing staff - not like she could just put off her labour until the babysitter came home. She was made to feel that she was not meant to have him there etc as she had not
Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia
Forget Sting. Edge could park his shoes under my bed ANY time. - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 8:44 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia Fields of Gold (Ten Summoner's Tales) does it for me! -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Aviva Sheb'aSent: Monday, 25 November 2002 11:16 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia I know what you mean about Sting. I pant just thinking about him! Ever heard him do It Ain't Necessarily So? Oh.Oops, I nearly fell off my chair. I too get browned off missing out on stuff because I'm not on the East coast. aviva - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sheila Kitzinger in Australia I know this has nothing to do with midwifery and I now that I was one of theones who was getting frustrated with the course changes of conversation, buthere in SA we miss out on heaps of things that the eastern states alwaysgetlike the STING concert last year, eurythmics the year before that andBon Jovi this year the only live acts we seem to get are bands whowere big in the seventies So I am over joyed that Shelia is cominghere!!! Perhaps she was in a band in the seventies also?! Just kidding.I am just nervous about the interview with the ABC tomorrow...task avoidancein prepping by bitching about missing out on seeing STING again. the onlyman I would leave my hubby for!Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love...
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births)
Rhonda, with all due respect for your friend, unattended children at a hospital birth can very stressful for the staff. A lot of staff will take the attitude that they're not required to look after the child and wont make an effort. A lot of staff will get very anxious that such a little one can cause discord in the delivery room. It's always a problem when parents bring children in when there's no special support person for child exclusively. It's not that they're not wanted, far from it, it just alters the flow of attention off the mother, and that's always difficult when a midwife is trying to care for the mother's needs first. Having said that, I LOVE having kids in, it adds an extra special dimension to the labour, and I particularlylove having older children with whom you can talk and discuss things with. The look on their faces is simply fabulous as they take in an adult version of real life. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) This reminded me of a woman I know who had not intended her 2yr old son to be at the birth of her second child. When she went into labour she could not get hold of her back up child care. So they went to the hospital and hubby had the 2yr old - trying to call for someone to help. To cut it short - a fast labour 21/2 hrs with 2 yr old running about delivery room - turning the lights off and on while baby was born. She was shocked that the nurses didn't even assist with loking after him. This was about 11 yrs ago but she still laughs about yeling at her son to "turn the light back on" between pushing. He was totally unprepared and a little too young to be unattended while Dad helped her. Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, November 25, 2002 14:39:46 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: [Children Present at Births) We planned on having out two sons present at the birth at home of numberthree, boys were 3 1/2years and just under two. I showed them the video ofnumber two being born, water birh at home, we watched it lots and also someother videos our midwife lent us. I told them about the noise I might makeand about how not to talk when I was concentrating on the baby coming out.Likened it to having to concentrate when driving the car and looking for acarpark, can't talk much then either. I told them it might hurt me, but itwas a special hurt just for helping babies to come out. I told them it hadto come out between my legs, a special whole that only mummies have, boysdon't have one. Daddy would be rubbing my back and helping me and the baby.Importantly you need to arrange a person/s for the children, someone theytrust and they need to support your philosophies of childbirth, you don'twant their fear coming into your birth. My husband wasn't as keen as I was,but he agreed to take it as it came. I also told them that I might want tobe on my own and they may have to go for a walk or to grandma's. Iacknowledged that this could upset them and hence affect my labour, butfigured I would allow half an hour extra in labour for this to be workedthrough(not scientifically based).Birth can take a while so children willprobably want other things to do. You have to accept that may not even liketo be there at the time, nothing is set in concrete.It helps if they are involved with the pregnancy, attending appointments ifin hospital or helping the midwife if at home. Kids just love the tools of amidwife, fundal measurements might be a bit out though if they help.Some good books are "Having a Baby" by Jenni Overend and also the writer of"Maisie Mouse" series has one about introducing a new sibling etc, (sorrydon't know the name).Lots of talking, my youngest wasn't that interested, but the older boy newall about the placenta and unbilical cord, he loved the blood and mess.After all my education, baby decided to enter the world in the middle of thenight and the boys slept right through it all. We woke the eldest up acouple of hours later to help cut the cord. Little one didn't wake til usualtime. It was a fast and demanding labour so it was appropriate that the boysweren't there, I believe I wouldn't have coped as well, things happen for areason.My oldest, now 4 1/4
Re: [ozmidwifery] short labours
yes, I went into labour with my first child to the very exact hour of conception on my due date. very wierd. she's a very thoughtful child by nature. the other two are just little flibbertygibbets who march to their own drums in life, the 2nd one just came in her own good time, and the third, who crashes through life like a bull in a china shop amused me by arriving in a fashion not unlike like being shot out of a gun. - Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] short labours I had an interrupted 19 hours with an OP with my first (cs for FTW, stalled at 8cm...crap), and the second was an OP 24 hours (so much for shorter but it was a vbac!) With my third I was pretty concerned deep down about long labours which was my mental block for a home birth. But all through my pregnancy I kept chatting to junior saying look I will have about 6 hours spare sometime between the National Caesarean Awareness Day and the CARES AGM...so can we work towards that please? I changed my concept of how long is labour and did not consider pre labour as being in labour ( things began to happen at 11pm as with the other two) but told my body to get on with it whilst I slept (been a busy day). By 3am things were starting to kick in and I was internal at 4am. It is this point when I said righto kiddo...you've got 6 hours to work with me here so do your stuff! He was born gently and beautifully at 10.15am -fashionably late by 15 minutes! I did a lot of visualisation but 'internally'...not outwardly verbally. I was convinced that a six hour labour would be perfect and that is all I was going to accept after the crap of the last two bubs births. On an extended point, someone once told me that they believed that the time labour begins (as in the hour time) can coincide with the time (hour) of conception... any thoughts on this theory? (It is nearly as good as the sex being determined by the one enjoying it most!) Anyone else know of any patterns? Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] short labours This bit about labours (I wish short) will be interesting in a personal sense. I'm adopted but in contact and friendly with my bio mother. She had three children (including me) over a period of about 15 years, each of the labours was the same length, never got shorter. I'm heading in to have my third in Jan (Dec if I'm lucky), the first was 14 hours, the second 12. I'm hoping for 10 or under this time. Cheryl From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] short labours Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:55:15 +1000 I have heard and seen that too, but then I also know of women whose mothers give a history of long drawn out labours and their daughters go on to labour and birth fairly quickly. Some of the stories, though, that these mothers share with their daughters of their experiences - well, it's no wonder their labours were long! But then, there are contrasting stories too...the flavour of life! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of P A Koziol Sent: Monday, 18 November 2002 9:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] short labours I dont know about research but I have noticed that short labours seem to follow the maternal line fairly commonly. I have noticed this enough that I even mention it in childbirth education sessions. Midwife colleagues have noticed the same phenomena. An example of 'secret midwives business' Alesa Alesa Koziol Clinical Midwifery Educator Melbourne - Original Message - From: Veronica Herbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] short labours My two sisters have 4 children each the longest labour (from the first contraction felt to birth of the baby) out of all being 2 hrs 10 mins, the shortest 2 x 20 mins (one in the car, the other on the kitchen floor). Is there any research that shows short labour run in families? Veronica -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCNSW] more interventions for labour!
it's about 3 hours I notice. They dont like it shorter than 3 hours. somehow they feel robbed of the experience, like it was over before they had a chance to really get into it. - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2002 9:44 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCNSW] more interventions for labour! I have seen many women who have experienced short labours (including protin labours) who are completely overwhelmed both physically and emotionally from the expereince, and I am not talking about the overwhelming experience of birth eitherthey shake and are in a stse of shock. It is often difficult for them to integrate what has happened and later, many of them ask for a longer labour and gentler birth next time. It's like their minds and bodies can't catch up with the other. [Lynne Staff]-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of RhondaSent: Saturday, 16 November 2002 4:40 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCNSW] more interventions for labour! "speeded up with prostaglandin gels or synthetic hormones" Hmm- OR synthetic - which supports the pig semen theory. (sorry!) And my concern in what about moulding? Doesn't a lot of moulding happen as far as the mothers body, hips and pelvis etc. I know a girl who had a really short labour but then went into shock. Rhonda ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, November 16, 2002 13:27:41 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ozmidwifery] Fw: [MCNSW] more interventions for labour! - Original Message - From: Virginia Miltrup To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 8:08 AM Subject: [MCNSW] more interventions for labour! a proposed drug to reduce the time of first labour to 2-3 hours by softening the collagen in the cervix! The scientists reckon it doesn't hurt more, (but then again they might have been blokes :-)). Website listed below. Love Kate PS What about all those women who were already going to have quick births?? http://www.ivenus.com/family/news/LC-notebook1-wk40.asp less labour? If only childbirth weren't such hard work. it may soon get easier, thanks to a new drug. The move is on to shorten childbirth via a new drug that is due to be tested later this year, according to a report in the New Scientist. The theory is that a shorter labour should be less painful and require less intervention on the part of doctors. The average time that most first-time mums spend in labour is around 18 hours, and while this can be speeded up with prostaglandin gels or synthetic hormones, these drugs can make labour unbearably painful and may make women feel the urge to push before the cervix is fully opened. This in itself can lead to complications. The new drug, developed and patented by Britain's Medical Research Council, may cut the average labour down to only two or three hours. Most of the long, painful hours of labour are spent as the cervix slowly opens from tightly closed to 10 centimetres. Many women feel they have been in labour forever and rush into the hospital expecting to deliver instantly only to be told they are just two or three centimetres dilated! For most women (although there are those who have quick births), dilation of the cervix is a slow process. The new drug, however, is designed to speed up this process by softening the collagen in the cervix. It is likely to be administered either through gel, cream, microcapsules or injection, although as yet it is not known what form it will take. So far it has only been tested on monkeys. In these cases, the Scottish firm Ardana Bioscience, which has the licence for the new drug, reports it worked very effectively. By Marianne HartiganMaternity Coalition NSWwww.maternitycoalition.org.auTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Re : Julia's birth
h, that sounds SO beautiful. Snowy haired babies are always my favourites, I could only imagine what a water-birthed one looks like. :-) Robin - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re : Julia's birth And a shock of white blonde hairÂ…. Perfect I have also had a baby born with a crop of white blonde hair, it is truly beautiful. He was born in the water and to have a baby lifted through the water and this halo of white hair floating around the head, is a sight to be seen. cheers Megan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives Jan, I may have been a little confusing. I was referring to Midwives working in Private Hospitals, not in Private practise. I am looking for any references to any papers written about them. So far it's a blank slate. Robin - Original Message - From: Jan Robinson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Private health midwives On 8/11/02 9:25 PM, "Robin Moon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know of any references pertaining to Midwives working in the Private system, specifically in Australia? Cinahl is coming up blank for me.thanks,RobinHi RobinWhat type of references do you want?The Australian Society of Independent Midwives (ASIM) has a Members Directory giving details of all members in private practice across Australia. Contact me is you want a copy.Jan__Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]8 Robin Crescent www: midwiferyeducation.com.auSouth Hurstville NSW 2221 National Coordinator, ASIM__
Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences
Not everyone will speak out though. The repercussions are too damaging. Which is probably why midwives do internalize so many critical incidents. - Original Message - From: Aviva Sheb'a To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences Oh, by golly. Imagine what will happen when EVERYONE speaks out! Go get 'em! Strength to all. aviva - Original Message - From: Dr Penelope A Barrett To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Friday, November 08, 2002 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] hurtful birth experiences I wonder how many midwives have also felt violated and traumatised (but notbeen able to find expression) for having to partake in care of women inhospital that has trauma as part of it - as a witness? I'm reflecting onsome really bad vibes I can remember and the (?) shame/guilt/shock (?) athaving to be witness to some of this and yet not in control of the personwho is perpetuating it. I'll have to give this some thought - it is reallydisturbing me - may be an explanation for some tensions I carry.PennyB.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact
Pig semen? Oh Lordy... the things you learn here. Robin - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact I suggest tjhat you allow her to be angry and to vent her pain and her anger towards those who caused it. Support her in complaining to the hospital and insisting upon answers as lame as they may be. If she were to ask why was the induction needed? Was the baby in distress (at the time of the first insertion of gel - a horrible substance called prostin made from Pig seamen. Lovely!) Was her placenta failing? What was the indication that at 10 days over she needed to be induced anyway? Then once they have wormed out of that she should ask for explanations as to why all of the intervention and what caused it and why was it all needed. Give her lots of love and support to do this as nothing will change and it will keep happening unless women are encouraged to complain and conplain and complain! Even if she personally gets little satisfaction fron the complaint it is just one more brick to add - eventually we will built a wall to protect women from this - brick by brick. You need to complain first to the registra at the hospital but at the same time go directly to the medical practitioners board and make sure it outlines that the initial induction was not called for and the following intervention could have been avoided. Also any poor bedside manner should be outlines clearly if they were rude to her which it seems they were not supportive and gentle from your description. I wish her love and luck in her recovery - if she needs someone to talk to you are welcome to give her my email. The problem is this happens every day and it is not looked at as torture or as something that needs to be changed. The only way it will be seen as a problem is if they are inundated with complaints about this sort of thing. Luv Rhonda. I am so angry for her - it just shpuld not happen and make sure she knows she is right to be upset because it is not a fault with her body and it is not that it just happens - it should not have happened to her. Make sure she knows why it was not necessary and why it should not have happened. ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, November 07, 2002 14:44:32 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Whew, Rhonda. I heard this morning from a friend about a friend of hers, aged 19, whose baby was 10 days late; ob insisted on inducing with gel, nothing much happening, into hosp., more drugs, foetal monitoring, on her back, strapped down to bed, more drugs, epidural, more of same, enormous episiotomy, cut artery, blood gushing in spurts, vacuum to head, two big men hauling as though it was a tug-of-war, massive lump on baby's head accompanied by ring of scars, she's stitched up, off her face, baby won't wake up, won't feed, she's being pumped every six hours for milk which they're somehow force feeding to baby. but hey, at least she's ok and the baby's ok, they tell her, and she repeats as she recovers from her torture. Yes, it's happening under our noses. In Adelaide, November, 2002. ...and I'm screaming inside for women and children...who are our future. Aviva - Original Message - From: Rhonda To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:05 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Interesting fact Well Megan, I guess the only way to really understand is this.. I can honestly and acceptingly say (as I cannot change what has happened and I have dealt with it in my own way) IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac and second stage
The 'bottomy things' . Lol. What a diplomatic way of putting it, i love it! Very true, though. I am reminded of a woman almost 15 years ago who, in spite of the head being on view, then crowning, then actually Birthing! yelling all the way through.." It wont happen..noone in my family ever did it this way". Her two sisters and mother had all had c/s's for cpd and she remained convinced to the very end she would have to also. That was a very powerful birth for a young impressionable midwife at the time. All the more because the woman was all of 5 foot nothing in her shoes. Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac and second stage I know this is an older posting, but I have worked with a few women lately and also taken some VBAC sessions and the women are very focussed on how many cms dilated they were at the last labour before they had their caesars - some going through their labours really do want to know how 'far along' they are and will request exams and some just say no they really do not want anybecause of the fear that they might not be as 'far along' as they were last time. Often whenwomen are experiencingthe 'bottomy things' happening, they don't believe they are where they are because it seems too soon, or even that they feel they have willed the sensations to be there and they fearmight not be real. I just love working with women!!! - Original Message - From: Marilyn Kleidon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 12:36 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac and second stage I would just like to second what Carolyn has said. And to add my own two cents worth. Firstly I really don't think there is a typical vbac labour, that being said there are some commonalities, I think. Depending on how far along the woman was in her labour when the caesarian was done (ie if she was fully dilated thenfirst stage maybe faster, subsequently) many will experience a primip labour,including second stagewhich are usually longer, though not always. As Carolyn said they need to get past where they were in labour when they had the caesarian. Which is a good reason to avoid VE's where possible. They need to feel really confident in their caregivers, in both directions, I think: that they wont be rushed off for an unnecessary caesarianand that they and their baby are in safe hands. I think they also need to know in their hearts and minds that baby size and pelvic size in a healthy woman has little to do with the fit, it seems to me it is all about position and presentation, the pelvic bones move, I have seen well tucked 9 to 11 pound babies slide out and a little 6 ponder get stuck because of a brow or military presentation. I also think we have to keep prostaglandin and oxytocin inductions away from vbac women (oohh but what if they want this after knowing the risks???), avoid ARM, augmentation and keep the mum upright/active as long as possible. Good preparation about early/latent labour is essential so that the woman is as rested as possible when active labour kicks in. Many women get to feeling very anxious and frustrated when they are niggling nightly for a week or so (also exhausted if they stay awake waiting for labour to really kick in, some interpret it as a sign that their body is "failing" them again (especiallyif this is how labour started last time). I read an interesting article in Scientific American a year or so ago which included reasearch into primate labours: apparently one group of primates (I forget which one now) would labour for a few hours nightly for several days before the birth, then one night it was the real/birth thing (they were all real that is the point of this) and the baby was born. So, this sort of niggly warm up labour is actually very primal, normal, natural, if it can be accepted by the woman as a positive thing and not a "false" labour it is a very good thing. And lastly, I think whatever the woman finds useful to get her into"labourland", where she just focuses on birthing her baby is useful. This maybe hypnobirthing, various relaxation techniques including breath awareness, meditation, prayer, etc.. Experimenting with various methods throughout the pregnancy, I think is very useful, at least for some women. Some women request and seek counselling, others are satisfied with deep conversations with their midwife, again I think it is very individual. And I agree with Carolyn, this is where doulas/non-medical support people can come into their own. I am sure there is more, Marilyn
Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth
I cant smell, but I do have a brilliant sense of intuition for the same issues. Could this maybe be related in some way? Is this ( smelling) a learn-ed response to our heightened abilities to forsee the immediate future ? In a similar vein, I can ' tell' without laying a finger on a women whether she is going to make it through her labour without c/s or excessive intervention. I can also 'tell' how dilated a woman is without touching her. Sometimes I think this is more of a spiritual awareness of the whole process than simply years of experience. Or maybe i'm just full-of-it and just guess lucky. I'm so intrigued. Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Andrea told me a couple of years ago that Beatrix Smulders can too. It took me a long time to tell anyone for fear they would think I was...well, you know! One of the obs I work with says he thinks he can nearly smell it too - Original Message - From: Sally Westbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 10:42 AM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Hi Lynne, You absolutely startled me. I thought I was the only one!! I smell babies and know they are coming in a very similar time frame. It is an astonishing experience and a gift. Love Sally -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Lynne Staff Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 5:40 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth For those births I have been there for, it was what the mother wished - I still ask them about what they want to do for the labour and the birth, their wishes for the baby. the placenta and afterwards. I have worked with some strong women giving birth to stillborn babes, and their partners too. I find it incredible how the women do what they need to do for their babe to be born, when they know that their babe is not going to open its eyes, take a breath, stretch and explore its space, once born, nuzzle at the breast. For those of you who know me, I talk about smelling the baby about 20-40 minutes before it can be seen and if I don't smell anything, the baby isn't coming out without some help - can't explain it - it just happens (and it's not liquor, blood, vaginal mucus). The last birth I was at where we knew the babe had been dead for a few days prior to the birth, I could still smell him, and it surprised me - I don't know what I was expecting in this case, but I was crouched next to the woman on the floor and that beautiful (but beyond description) smell came to me and I knew he would be there soon. I told the mother and father - she was scared to give birth to him - I think we have all seen women hugging their baby inside them, knowing that while they are inside still, no-one can get to the babe and it is still theirs, and maybe, just maybe, it will be alive..and when I told her I could smell the baby, she nodded and quietly said to me OK, my son - it's time for me to meet you - Original Message - From: Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth Thankyou Jan, I appreciate how busy you are. It sounds like an experience you will have with you forever. Lotus birth is a beautiful gift for a baby born still. We cut the cord on our third baby after a few hours and the arteries and vein were visibly sticking out the end, also amazing to see. If people can bare with me on the morbid stuff, I would like to know what the standard practice(hospital care)would be for a known still baby, in regards to the placenta? thanks again Megan. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jan Robinson Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2002 5:30 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Shivam Rachana Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Lotus birth On 1/10/02 10:34 AM, Larry Megan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jan wrote Rachel and Scott's baby boy, Alejandre was born through water around lunch time into the arms of both parents where he stayed until his placenta was born and gently collected (a lotus birth again, as was Stella's) Jan, can you please explain to me if Lotus birth is any different in the case of a stillbirth baby, time it takes etc? Is the palcenta kept with the baby forever? Sorry if this is a bit upfront but I am genuinely interested. thankyou Megan. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Hello Megan I seem to be ages getting to respond to this - but
Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!)
I have found that midwifery in hospitals has gone backwards. Oh. how true. Sadly. During one of my classes at uni this semester one the lecturers wanted us Master's students to outline ways in which nursing has gone forward in the past decade. I almost snorted into my coffee, for I am of the firm belief that midwifery has not gone forward. It's gone backwards. How many other nursing factions can say this? I guess the good in this is that our consciousness's ( ?sp) have gone forward, to the point where midwives are so determined to make changes. My depth of experience only extends to 15 years or so, but would it be right to think that the efforts to liberate midwives from their medical shackles is a relatively new concept? Or was it like this back in the 70's also? Robin - Original Message - From: Lina Davern [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:49 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) hi I am lina and I went back to nursing after an 18 year break. I decided to go back to midwifery. So two and a half years ago I did a refresher course. I chose to go and work in a privae hospital because I knew the num and I thought that she would keep an eye on me. Each time I reflect on the situation I can not remember why I chose midwifery. Any way this year my num has decided that I work in the birthing unit. So ctg's have been one of my biggest night mares, I think you need a degree to read them to start off with. I even did an inservice lecture on ctg's but that was not enough. I have found that experience is the best teacher in reading ctg'd. Today I do not worry about early decels above 110bpm but I still report them because the obstetrician is the first to say that I was not informed. I have found that midwifery in hospitals has gone backwards. We do an initial ctg on all admission, if it has a sleep trace, like reduced varibility we try and wake the baby up and leave the monitor on until it wakes up. Any one that is induced goes on continous monitoring. Noone is game enought not to monitor. When I worked in the public system 20 years ago we listened to the fetal heart rates half hourly and then when pushing inbetween contractions. Our caesarean rates I am sure were not as high as what they are today. Even so I doubt that I would have the courage to be a midwifery practtioner like what of yee girls are on the list. Even though I am in the opposition to you I admire yee and I have learnt heaps from reading the list. Good luck and keep up the great work and say a prayer for me. Love Lina. From: YOLANDE WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:27:23 +1000 Jo, Did you report(incident report) the doctor and encourage your patient to make a complaint against the doctor(give her the patient feed back form)? This is how these rude unprofessional people need to be delt with. Never let thier lack of respect upset you. Your support of that woman is admirable I hope you can look past the bad and see the good that you can do? keep it up! Yolande. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 10:35 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Almost c/s - horrid shift (VERY LONG!) I worked in birth suite last night, and had a not-so-nice shift... This woman was due to be induced on saturday, and came in for routine CTG monitoring (as she was post dates by about 5 or so days), and the CTG was very flat... variability 1-5, but a reactive trace. Eventually the decision was made to induce there and then. She had an ARM around 3pm, and was 2cm dilated. Clear liquor. Since this was her second baby, they decided to leave her for an hour to see if she went into labour 'spontaneously'. She felt some niggles, that's all. So after SEVEN attempts to get an IV into her (and 2 hours after the ARM) syntocinon was commenced. For most of that time after the ARM I was told to leave the CTG on because they (the doctors) were not happy with it. And, of course when the syntocinon went up, the CTG was there to stay. Because the woman was mobilising well, on the ball, on the loo, walking, sitting, etc, the trace wasn't very clear. So, I sat with her the whole time, listening to the baby's heart, often getting the maternal pulse showing up on the monitor (low-lying placenta), but always hearing the baby's heart rate in the backround, assuring me of the baby's well-being. After about an hour of sketchy tracing, I told the woman and her husband that the doctor might want to put a FSE on because they wouldn't be sure of how the baby was from the printout. I showed them the device, and explained to them everything that would happen. They asked whether it would hurt the baby. I can't lie... a wire being screwed into a baby's head
Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwives computer databases
Any history of midwifery will throw light on the damage done to the profession by its attitude that some-one-else could mess with data - some-one like doctors or beaurocrats. Rosalee, is this a negative or a postive thing you are saying? I'm not sure I comprehend ( although after a long, long day, I'm not sure I comprehend anything except my wine glass!) are you saying that there was some anxiety that others-not-midwives would fiddle with the data on Obstet when it was developed? Or is it that they already did ( do) anyway and Obstet is supposed to alleviate that imbalance by providing us with our own data? Robin - Original Message - From: Rosalee Shaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:14 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Midwives computer databases Midwives were well represented on the consortium which developed OBSTET, and they continue to be involved with it - any if any of them are on this list they might tell you who they are. It was designed by midwives, and intended to give midwives control of their own data, and yes, I mean the ones with the women ! Any history of midwifery will throw light on the damage done to the profession by its attitude that some-one-else could mess with data - some-one like doctors or beaurocrats. The future of midwifery is in our data, and we should control it ! Regards Rosalee [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/01/02 03:06PM Robin, Were any midwives involved in planning, designing and implementing the software? By midwives, I mean the ones with the women. Penny B. On 30/9/02 8:16 PM, Robin Moon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NO, the OBSTET data base does not take the place of notes and paper unfortunately. Whilst it is great for generating data in an orderly and easy fashion, it is VERY time consuming. Particularly in a labour ward.It is great however for pulling stats when needed to back up one's arguments with medical staff etc. But I say, Roll on OBSTET Mark 2 cos this one is wearing thin Whilst the intentions were great for it's development and use, I have found units that now require of the LW midwife to enter pregnancy and labour info on the database, progress notes on the labour AND the partogram. PHew! No wonder we're all stressed! Jen, I think the State of the Art hospital in Australia is one that would have the woman as their focus. Not documentation, not legalese, not doctors. Where is that cos I want a job there! lol. Robin - Original Message - From: Jennifer Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases Please forgive my ignorance on the issue... but does a computer database take place of the midwife making notes obs on paper? I was w/ a woman @ her birth in a hospital in the US where they had a PC in every labour birth room (every room was private)... all of the notes obs were entered directly on to it the CTG was hooked up to the PC as well. Hehehe, it was hard to tell whether the computer or the bed (with the woman tethered to it) was more of a focal point in the room! I'm a first year BMid student haven't been on clinicals yet, so I don't know what the state of the state in hospital in Oz is. I'm not passing judgement on the computers... I have no idea what the pros cons are for the midwife... just my observation from the birth w/ the woman. Jen -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases
ticks never tell the real story anyway. Still today I wont see a woman postnatally without reading through her labour history first - it gives such an important feel for what's going on in her head. It drives me nuts when it reads ' See Obstet summary' or the like. I want a story! Robin - Original Message - From: Lynne Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases Yep - those tick and flicks have a lot to answer for..I'd rather write any day. - Original Message - From: Christine Tony Holliday [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 3:05 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] computer databases I feel we need to write in the women's notes, databases and pathways do not reflect the woman's individuality or the finer points of what happened. We do not want the midwives voice to be removed from the notes, we will be even less visible as providers of maternity care. If we are not careful we will become collectors of data for others to interpret. I must acknowledge my good friend Jackie for first bringing these thoughts to my attention when I read her thesis. Christine -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Robin Moon Sent: Monday, 30 September 2002 7:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases NO, the OBSTET data base does not take the place of notes and paper unfortunately. Whilst it is great for generating data in an orderly and easy fashion, it is VERY time consuming. Particularly in a labour ward.It is great however for pulling stats when needed to back up one's arguments with medical staff etc. But I say, Roll on OBSTET Mark 2 cos this one is wearing thin Whilst the intentions were great for it's development and use, I have found units that now require of the LW midwife to enter pregnancy and labour info on the database, progress notes on the labour AND the partogram. PHew! No wonder we're all stressed! Jen, I think the State of the Art hospital in Australia is one that would have the woman as their focus. Not documentation, not legalese, not doctors. Where is that cos I want a job there! lol. Robin - Original Message - From: Jennifer Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases Please forgive my ignorance on the issue... but does a computer database take place of the midwife making notes obs on paper? I was w/ a woman @ her birth in a hospital in the US where they had a PC in every labour birth room (every room was private)... all of the notes obs were entered directly on to it the CTG was hooked up to the PC as well. Hehehe, it was hard to tell whether the computer or the bed (with the woman tethered to it) was more of a focal point in the room! I'm a first year BMid student haven't been on clinicals yet, so I don't know what the state of the state in hospital in Oz is. I'm not passing judgement on the computers... I have no idea what the pros cons are for the midwife... just my observation from the birth w/ the woman. Jen -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases
NO, the OBSTET data base does not take the place of notes and paper unfortunately. Whilst it is great for generating data in an orderly and easy fashion, it is VERY time consuming. Particularly in a labour ward.It is great however for pulling stats when needed to back up one's arguments with medical staff etc. But I say, Roll on OBSTET Mark 2 cos this one is wearing thin Whilst the intentions were great for it's development and use, I have found units that now require of the LW midwife to enter pregnancy and labour info on the database, progress notes on the labour AND the partogram. PHew! No wonder we're all stressed! Jen, I think the State of the Art hospital in Australia is one that would have the woman as their focus. Not documentation, not legalese, not doctors. Where is that cos I want a job there! lol. Robin - Original Message - From: Jennifer Semple [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] computer databases Please forgive my ignorance on the issue... but does a computer database take place of the midwife making notes obs on paper? I was w/ a woman @ her birth in a hospital in the US where they had a PC in every labour birth room (every room was private)... all of the notes obs were entered directly on to it the CTG was hooked up to the PC as well. Hehehe, it was hard to tell whether the computer or the bed (with the woman tethered to it) was more of a focal point in the room! I'm a first year BMid student haven't been on clinicals yet, so I don't know what the state of the state in hospital in Oz is. I'm not passing judgement on the computers... I have no idea what the pros cons are for the midwife... just my observation from the birth w/ the woman. Jen -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Replies to posts
I often dont reply because I've been an advocate of midwives working in private health for far too long. And I sense here that this is not really accepted. I also found this acutely obvious whilst at uni this year in a M of Mid. program. ( the way I figure it, is someone's gotta save them!) RM - Original Message - From: Mary Murphy To: list Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:02 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Replies to posts Jo Wrote "I think that we should be conscious of the fact that some post thingsand there is sometimes no replies. To inadvertently ignore a fellow birth related supporter should try and be avoided at all costs." I often don't reply because I just accept that this is someone's opinion-statement according to them. If there is a question asked or it seems a real request for opinion-help, then I reply ifI have something to add. cheers, MM.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Follow up on 'Losing Layla'
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Follow up on 'Losing Layla' i thought is was meconium aspiration, Justine. There may have been something else, but this was certainly the inital diagnosis. Robin - Original Message - From: Justine Caines To: OzMid List Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:17 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Follow up on 'Losing Layla' Hi DebI was 8 months pregnant with no 2 when Losing Layla was aired and I cried so much I didnÂ’t pick up the reason for the death. I thought it was a genetic condition, do you know?JustinexxIn a message dated 9/26/02 5:26:49 PM W. Australia Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: did she have him naturally or was it cs?It was a cs. I had tears in my eyes reading the piece. I saw the original last year, and even ordered a copy and donated to the NCT for their teaching library (not to show in classes, but to educate the educators).As someone who has also had a baby die at birth, I found the whole piece extremely moving, but it truly reflects how parents can feel (at least it reflected my experiences), and I suggest that anybody who is/ may be involved with bereaved parents should watch it - although it extremely difficult to watch.I am not surprised she had a section, although I still decided to have a natural birth after my experiences, but then Michael's death was not related to his birth.Debbie SlaterPerth, WA
Re: [ozmidwifery] long long labours
I have felt for years that 4cms is a magic number. Add to 4cms a shot of pethidine ( hey, it was private health, if this was all they got, they were doing well!) or a hot bath, or both, then the other magic number ' 10' often appeared within an hour or so after that. It seems to be a real stepping stone and the key to advancing is obviously relaxation. Robin - Original Message - From: Julie Clarke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 10:13 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] long long labours Dear Tracey When I have heard of a dramatic change in a long labour story it's usually associated with...but then I got in the bath and relaxed for half an hour, next thing I knew I was pushing ... I've heard of many that will take 24 hours to get to 4cms and then once in the bath only a very short while to get to fully ... seems to be a genuine turning point for some. Women often describe the bath as their own personal private space where they could cut off from those around them and still feel supported - I think its magic :-) Julie Clarke Childbirth and Parenting Educator Transition into Parenthood Classes 9 Withybrook Pl Sylvania NSW 2224 T(02) 9544 6441 F(02) 9544 9257 M. 0401 265530 email [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Tracey Askew Sent: Tuesday, 24 September 2002 3:42 PM To: ozmidwifery Subject: [ozmidwifery] long long labours Hi all, I was just wondering, in our current post natal group of first time mums, during the sessions where we have been talking about birthstories, the common theme this term has been these really long labours, with very slow (if any) dilation. Most of them ended with intervention, and disappointment in their body. Now most of us here understand the physiology of childbirth, how fear will create an adrenaline rush, which directly works against labour. What I would love to hear, are any stories where a woman birthing has experienced a dramatic change as a result of the support she has received. For example; something said to her that has helped her to release fear during the process, which has then allowed her body to make a dramatic turn during her labour. Another example might be a story related to why a long slow labour has been an important experience for a woman. I would love to cite some stories to women (the art of storytelling being a VERY power medium) helping them to understand the unique and wonderful complexities of the human body, and how it is a wonderful teacher, allowing us to grow and expand into infinite possibilities. Helping women to see what is possible will go a long way into their birthing and mothering experiences. Thank you in advance for sharing your wisdom. Tracey Anderson Askew -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] virus
im sorry, it's me spreading the virus via Outlook Express. It's Klez H. and it has actively blocked our Norton Anti-Virus from working. (thanks kids for downloading it *sigh* ) It works by sending mail from an address IN my box to one in YOUR box. Nasty stuff. We're working on it, but we have to disable NAV and go the long way round whilst we do so. So please delete anything that look suspicious. Also, Symantec tells us this message is a fake one: Klez.E is the most common world-wide spreading worm.It's very dangerous by corrupting your files. Because of its very smart stealth and anti-anti-virus technic,most common AV software can't detect or clean it. We developed this free immunity tool to defeat the malicious virus. You only need to run this tool once,and then Klez will never come into your PC. NOTE: Because this tool acts as a fake Klez to fool the real worm,some AV monitor maybe cry when you run it. If so,Ignore the warning,and select 'continue'. If you have any question,please mail to me. so if you receive it, delete it immediately i apologise again, but it gratifying to notice that of the 150 messages sent by it from my box in the last 24 hours, 90% are being blocked by virus detecting systems, because I'm getting millions of undeliverable messages from everybody in my address book. *sigh* Robin. From: Jo Dean Bainbridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:22 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hello - Brasil here... Andrea the email I got from you has an attachment too Jo Bainbridge founding member CARES SA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: 08 8388 6918 birth with trust, faith love... - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hello - Brasil here... Hello Ric No, I am not aware of any attachments to my messages - the list doesn't handle attachments. My emails are all virus checked before they are sent, so no idea what the attachment is all about (and I don't use Outlook Express either!). Hug, Andrea At 09:32 6/09/2003, Lynne Staff wrote: Hi Andrea - did you send an attachment with this email, because it came with one and I just wanted to check - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 9:00 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hello - Brasil here... Hello Ricardo, Terrific to hear from you and to have you on the list. I hope you'll find the midwifery scene in Austrlaia interesting to read about. As you know, I've been able to have a first hand look at what is happening in Brasil and I am very excited about the work of REHUNA. Can I just say that I think REHUNA should be careful of the doula phenomenon? Rather than spending time on training a new team of people as doulas, why not put your energies into re-shaping the thinking and up-skilling the nurses you already have working in maternity and at the same time, open your labour wards to family and friends of the labouring woman? The work of Klaus and Kennell in the 1980's showed that in order to improve outcomes for labouring women all that was needed was to provide a companion for her, and one with no training was just as good as one with training. I've looked at birth in other parts of the world similar to yours and still think that the first and easiest step to take is to find a way to enable the woman to have her sister/mother/best friend with her during labour and birth. This is cheap, easy, woman friendly and easy to implement. I hope to be able to get back to Brasil to do some more workshops for your nurses on the basics of being with women. In the meantime, I have written a Diary entry http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/index.html on doulas that you might like to read. A bit controversial but I think these things need to be said. Look forward to seeing you again! Andrea At 04:29 6/09/2002, Ricardo Herbert Jones wrote: Hello everybody: My name is Ricardo Herbert Jones I am an obstetrician from Brasil, and had the pleasure of meeting Andrea Robertson this year in a Congress about Humanization of Childbirth in São Paulo, Brasil. As an obstetrician I would like to share experiences with midwives and doulas all around the world, because I think that humanization of birth is an issue that has to do with every single person in this planet. Even thou only women deliver babies (yet - who knows where the tecnocratic paradygm will takes us?) all of us were once born, and lived during a limited time in a woman´s womb. Were we rescued from there by doctors and eletronic devices or were we cherished by mom´s tender body till we entered this world? These are different ways of looking to the same event. As I grew old (I am 43 now, and work with births from 20 years) I learned that women shall be
[ozmidwifery] i'm a little confused
Expressing antenatally? Could someone please enlighten me to this practise? It sounds like an eminently sensible idea but i'm intrigued How much would you expect a woman to produce antenatally , when would you commence it and how often would you do it? is antenatal colustrum the same constitution as post-natal colustrum? Does pumping/ expressing antenatally actually increase your supply antenatally? questions, questions, questions Robin. - Original Message - From: JoFromOz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 6:08 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] too hard to breastfeed That would be really great, Linda. What hospital is that? I am in Melbourne. Thanks! Jo Dear Jo, the Lactation Consultant at our public hospital has diabetic women expressing ante-natally to avoid the use of formula.I could find out more if anyone wants the info. Linda -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed
Michelle, I've known thousands of women over the years that have agonised in the same way you did and received the same sort of treatment. I've always thought that as a midwife ( particulary in private health) that the best thing I could do for them is to simply smooth their way, not FIX everything. Some things in life we're crap at, and some we're great at, and more often than not, we dont get to choose what they are. Some women are great at growing healthy term babies, some are crap; some are great at labouring and some are crap; some are great at breastfeeding and some are crap; and some are great at mothering and some are crap. The thing is, it's a rare person that is brilliant at everything, and I for one, can pinpoint great holes in my talents at some of the above list. Like most things in life, we're just required to make the best of any given situation and hopefully, gracefully accept the rest. So just do the best you can and regardless of milk or no milk, unhelpful comments or no, the most important thing to remember is that a loving, intimate relationship with our loved ones is the most important gift we can give them. However we do it. *wanders away to refill glass of Merlot* Robin. - Original Message - From: MICHELLE WHITE [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 4:21 PM Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed I'd like to add my thoughts to this debate.. I agree with you that I think it's incredibly unfair to dismiss women who choose to bottle-feed as being selfish It's a tough decision to make and I doubt any women who has desperately yearned for their child, would ever make that decision lightly. Before I had my little girl I decided that I would breastfeed because we all know that it's the best thing you can do for your baby. I also thought it would be the most natural thing in the world. However, after a week of extreme pain and anguish I decided to put my child on formula because I could not get her to attach properly, she wasn't getting enough milk, she was sick and jaundiced, I was a physical and emotional wreck and faced leaving hospital without my little girl being able to feed properly. It should have been the happiest time of my life, but I was totally miserable. My baby looked miserable and my husband was distraught because we both were suffering. It was a tough decision to make, I was treated like dirt by the nurses in the hospital when I decided to switch to formula and I was offered no advice or assistance on how to bottle-feed. Basically I was told that if I formula fed, I was on my own, which made me furious. However I did switch to bottle-feeding and for ME I think it was the best thing I could've done. I went from hating feed-times and feeling like a total failure to being able to enjoy having my baby in my arms watching her feed. So, yes, breast is best. But please Megan, don't assume that someone is any less a caring, 'real' mother if their circumstances mean they'd rather bottle-feed. Michelle. Perth w.a. -Original Message- From: owner-ozmidwifery Sent: Wednesday, 21 August 2002 2:09 PM To: ozmidwifery Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed In a message dated 8/21/02 9:37:24 AM W. Australia Standard Time, Megan writes: I wonder how many of these parents that find breastfeeding too tiring, time consuming, etc had oodles of energy to go out to nightclubs to all hours. Granted you have all Sunday to recover. There is so much energy for doing things that only benefit ones selfish needs(my opinion), if society cared as much about birthing and nurturing as it does about football. Megan I have had three children. The first was formula fed from about 2 weeks of age. I would have dearly loved to breastfeed my second, but he died shortly after birth, and so I went through the physically and emotionally painful process of letting my milk dry up. My third baby (premature) was breastfed until 10 months of age. In the case of babies 1 and 3 the decisions that I made, were not made out of selfishness - far from it. How to feed you baby for many (most?) is a very emotive one, and bound up in all sorts of history and background, but I would suggest that very few women make decisions about feeding their baby lightly. Even if they make a decision about feeding - for what someone might consider a selfish reason - who are we to judge? I know what you are trying to say, and I do agree that the whole issue of parenting and having children does not seem to have a high priority in this high-tech consumer led world, and certainly the case of the Nigerian women is awful (and not an isolated incident according to a report in Marie Claire last year). Debbie Slater Perth, WA -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE
Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies
- Original Message - From: Jo Dean Bainbridge To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:03 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] OP babies I have a question that will probably be seen as a silly one to some (but remember I am a consumer so it is my right to ask silly questions!) If one of the main reasons for cs is failure to progress and fetal malpresentation AND a common factor with both these 'reasons' is a baby that is persistently in OP ... why doesn't anyone do anything to correct this before labour? Jo, there was a large research study conducted in Sydney recently on OP positions. It concentrated on ante-natal exercises to see if they could 'move' babies into a more optimal position prior to labour. The results were a dismal failure I know a large portion of bubs are OP then turn during labour; but it seems like we have found that it is easier to deal with it by cs or forceps rotation...why is it we don't try to avoid the situation altogether? Usually we need to wait to see if the force of the contractions and the shape of the woman's pelvis will help the baby to rotate. That's what we're looking for prior to c/s or forceps. To give the woman's body every chance. Very few women I have encountered were even aware of the term OP or what the whole OP presentation involves (longer labours more interventions etc). Why do we pregnant mums not get told during ante-natal check ups what position bubs in? Why doesn't anyone check when labour commences? On your antenatal card there is spot for 'presentation'. Usually it has hieroglyphics for the lay person in it in the form of 'OA'. or ÓT' or 'OP" ( or LOA, LOT,LOP, ROA, ROT,ROP). That is the position of the baby. Most practitioners start documenting it from about 30 weeks. A competent midwife/doctor will always check the position of the baby when labour commences ( unless you come in very late in the labour and it's all too difficult!). We need it to tell us lots of things. Suggested length of labour, readiness of the baby, potential problems. I am aware of the optimal presentation booklet and now try to encourage all women I come across to be aware of their posture and to try swimming and sitting in positions as well as vertical positioning during labourthat will encourage bub to be OA but this is AFTER I had a cs for failure to progress (8cm and stalled for 2 hours no fetal distress- due to having a monitor on and being made to be supine...no wonder bub did not turn himself!) Good for you, keep trying, it's better than doing nothing, and many midwives are able to offer other practical ways of turning babies that are sometimes helpful. And I agree wholeheartedly, flat on your back is the worst position to labour effectively in. :-( Remember this, the shape of a woman's pelvis will influence her labour. a VERY rough triangle shape where the pubic bone is at the apex, will allow the baby to rotate to the anterior nicely. If she is shaped more like a man where the pelvis is more oval shaped the baby will not rotate anteriorly too easily. I am curious why this seems to be something that is ignored by mainstream but something that plays a major role in how birth results as cs orivd?? can anyone shed somelight?? I hope I've been able to help you a little. I'm getting a little rusty now and others may have other ideas to contribute I'm sure. Cheers, Robin. Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love...
Re: [ozmidwifery] OP babies
Barbara, If it hasnt already been published, I'm sure it's about to. The hospital I worked at was involved in the data collection and I became friends with one of the research midwives. I saw her at lunch a short while ago and discovered this info. Robin - Original Message - From: Barbara Howe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:12 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] OP babies Robin Has this research on OFP been published in a journal somewhere? Barbara http://digital.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Digital How To - Get the best out of your PC! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac birth centres again
must be a big haemorrhoid - Original Message - From: Andrea Quanchi To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vbac birth centres again where on earth do they come up with this stuff fromAndrea QuanchiOn Thursday, August 1, 2002, at 03:59 PM, Vicki Chan wrote: no appologies requiredyell loud and clear Jo!a woman in my singing group is planning a vbac ... I just heard she visited her Gp today only to be told she would HAVE to have a CS as she has a haemorrhoid and it may rupture and she may bleed to death!I'll be seeing her tomorrow...Vickixox-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Jo Dean BainbridgeSent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 3:24 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] vbac birth centres againAlright, sorry listers it is that time again when I get really pis*d about vbac exclusions from birth centres again. Sorry to harp but I have to vent!!Why is it that my right to chose an elective surgery for reasons not based on medical evidence is adhered to without further questions or dispute and that right to choose what happens to my body is backed by society. But if I want to exercise that same right, but to chose a vbac and a vbac that is not medically managed, I am flatly denied. Tell me this is not discrimination! SOME of us have the right to chose, SOME of us gain the support for our choice, SOME have the last say in our care...but as long as it suits policy!Why is it that if someone wants to birth by cs due to fears of complications that occurred last time, this is considered a valid reason. but if I say I don't want continuous monitoringbased on the inaccuracy of ECG readouts and theirdirect influence of increasing the cs rate...that is not good enoughto be respected and supported???PLEASE! Some one tell me what is wrong with this!I am disgusted and saddened by Flinders Medical Centres decision to not allow vbac in its birth centre. It is a sad loss for vbac womenmidwives, lets hope there is a resolve to the insurance issues, cause I know for sure that if vbac is continued to be refused from BC then home birth vbacs will be on the rise.Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 6918birth with trust, faith love...
Re: [ozmidwifery] (ozmidwifery): Call for help regarding depictions of the midwife in fiction
How about 'Midwives' by (if I remember correctly) Chris Bohaljion. A rather scary story. Robin. - Original Message - From: Patricia Fannon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 2:49 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] (ozmidwifery): Call for help regarding depictions of the midwife in fiction Hello all I wonder if anyone has any ideas/suggestions regarding any fiction texts which they have read which feature midwives within the plot either as central or peripheral characters. Would appreciate any titles as I am looking at writing an essay on above topic. Thanks Patricia Bradford -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: lactation/menstruation
Interesting thought Judy. I've often wondered the same. I breastfed daughter no.3 for 6 months. But around that time I fed her her first solids of *shame shame* whipped cream from the spoon whilst I was preparing for a dinner party.. She is now a *big* girl ( at 15) who lusts after food 24/7. Her two older sisters are built like sticks and will never have a weight problem. I remember opening a discussion with another LC at work once about this, as I wonder if I inadvertedly triggered some altered fat metabolism reaction .She seemed to think there could have been a link. Is this how syndrome X starts? Robin - Original Message - From: Judy Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 6:20 PM Subject: Re: lactation/menstruation This story has led to another thought. My daughter, fully breast fed till she stopped of her own accord at 9 months, slept through the night from very young but became a thumb sucker till about age 8 or so. Now she is a very big woman, morbidly obese. Is there any link between early oral gratification and body weight later in life?? Judy From: sally mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmid [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: lactation/menstruation Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 22:50:17 +0930 Further on that fascinating topic...My first baby sucked all night long and cry if nothing in her mouth - if she couldn't find what she wanted, she'd just suck the first bit of skin she could latch on to. Result - lovebites covering breasts, abdomen and sometimes arms, though generally she made sure she was in the right place. Periods returned after 10 months. Second baby hardly fed at night and slept through at an early age, or woke infrequently for short feed then nod back off. Period returned at 12 weeks (pregnant at 14 weeks - bummer) Third baby, another constant craver and like the first would wake and cry if he realised no boob in mouth. Period back after 11 months. My conclusion (! in consultation with other friends who agree with this) that it's the all night suckers who keep the periods away. I'm sure there's a slogan there somewhere... 'if you don't want to bleed, give em boobs while they sleep...?!' Further to that, neither first nor third child suck their thumb (none had dummies) whilst middle does need this comfort. Seems they got their oral gratifiaction in first couple of years. Have always wondered if there are any long-term studies connecting this and smoking in later years.Sally :~) -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. Judy Chapman Midwife 07 47490764 _ Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: BBC E-mail: Midwives 'losing' breech birth skills
It's not only the midwives losing their skills, so are the obstetricians for the very same reasons. - Original Message - From: Melanie Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Fw: BBC E-mail: Midwives 'losing' breech birth skills saw this story on BBC News Online and thought you might like to see it, if you havent already Mel Message: *Midwives 'losing' breech birth skills* http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/hi/english/health/newsid_2031000/2031173.s tm Women are having unnecessary caesareans because midwives have lost the art of carrying out breech births, warn health experts. BBC Daily E-mail Choose the news and sport headlines you want - when you want them, all in one daily e-mail http://www.bbc.co.uk/dailyemail/ Disclaimer: The BBC is not responsible for the content of this e-mail, and anything said in this e-mail does not necessarily reflect the BBC's views. If you don't wish to receive such mails in the future, please e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] making sure you include the following text: I do not want to receive E-mail a friend mailings. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: teen pregnancy and parenting
There is a high school in Western Sydney, that I simply cant remember the name of ( hopefully someone else will), that has classes that cater specifically for pregnant teens and teen mums. Their program is not only flexible to allow for their specific needs but allows them to finish the HSC and to learn parenting skill skills concurrently. Maybe this will jog someones knowledge of it's name and you might be able to contact them. Sorry I cant be of more help. Robin From: pauline To: midwifery Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 10:24 AM Subject: teen pregnancy and parenting I work as a midwife in Colac, Vic, and am running and tryingto properly develop a program for pregnant and parenting teenagers. Does anyone out there know of any education programs offered on this topic, that can be done by distance education, and does anyone have any advice on what they have done to develop a similar program? So far myself and the mchn working with me feel like we have been flying by the seat of our pants, but have managed so far! any advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Send to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
Re: re:formula without consent?
Interesting, what you write, Cheryl, and I agree with your analysis, difficult and frustrating as it is. I have worked in both the public and private sector and often pondered the differences in breastfeeding between the two. In one, they were an accredited 'baby friendly' hospital and attempted to practice as such. I have NEVER seen such engorgement, extreme fatigue, desperation and tattered nipples as I did here. And this, in a unit that had probably 10 LC's and one full time LC. In contrast, the other unit that has a far more relaxed attitude to feeding and practiced all the aforementioned practices that in theory we dont endorse, has minimal nipple trauma, fatigue and no horrendous engorgement, either vascular or milk. I admit to being thoroughly confused. What my eyes see, is not what my heart tells me. Robin. - Original Message - From: Cheryl LHK [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2001 7:20 PM Subject: re:formula without consent? I work night-duty and see another side of this. By the time I get to work the new Mum's who have had a rotten day are having an even worse night. They have been told by midwives all day to put the baby to the breast, they are exhausted, have nipple trauma etc. ... the midwives are so busy, they have no time to do as much education and assistance as they would like too. Unfair to the Mum's - Yes, but thats life on hospital wards, especially when we have a mix of ages 0 - 90 on any given day. by the time I get to work, (and it's happened enough), they are in tears, desperate for assistance and want me to give this baby formula. One thing that I find works for me is that I ask them if they are happy to stay awake for another half an hour, I make sure that the baby is attached and sucking well (regardless of if the baby fed an hour ago), then I make sure Mum has drink/Panadol/hot pack etc, and get her into bed, settle baby and make sure that she gets 3 solid hours of sleep. Now, I know there will be many that criticise and say that the baby should room in all the time and that mothers just have to get used to being tired, but I think that we as midwives defeat our own purpose at times by being a bit heartless. Many of the mother's request that the baby stays with them the rest of the night once they have had the break and the 'formula discussion' seems to be forgotten. It doesn't happen every night to every Mum, but sometimes a litte bit of practical help (not just the education) can make the difference between a Mum throwing her hands in the air and I Quit to a women who knows that she will need a bit of help but can continue to breast-feed. Of course what I said above can be done if we are having a reasonable night, but if it's busy, it just compounds the problems of the day, and the next night she often will have suppressed. Frustrating at times. From: Grant and Louise [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: re:formula without consent? Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:44:20 +1100 Oh I see this happen regularly, consent is given - but not INFORMED consent. Your baby NEEDS a bottle/comp/some food because s/he's hungry/dry/jaundiced/big/little/sleepy/crying/prem/overdue/urates in the nappy (or you've laboured/had a caesar/had diabetes/were overdue/had lots of visitors) No discussion of alternatives or possible outcomes of the little bottle. In the mothers eyes it's okay because WE ( who are classed as the medical) say so. Louise The cure for all things is salt water - Sweat, tears, or the sea. [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Doula service in western Sydney
Pauline, Some years ago I have acted as a doula within a private hospital in Northern Sydney. It was by arrangement with the woman's obstetrician. I saw her antenatally, was with her during labour, and saw her at home postnatally. She chose me, but the obstetrician 'employed' me. The hospital was not very supportive, but they really had no choice, as I was already one of their labour ward staff. :). It worked because the obstetrician was supportive of my work with this very high needs woman. On the day she gave birth, I was not on duty and the midwife assigned to her was nicely invisible most of the time, which gave us the space we needed. I'm sure it can be done outside the strictest sense of being a doula. Being the trusted supporter and the patient advocate aretwo most important roles the woman can only benefit from. regards, Robin. - Original Message - From: Pauline Kelly To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2001 11:28 PM Subject: Doula service in western Sydney A woman approached me recently and asked if I knew if there were any Doula's "out there" who would be happy to support her during her birth (due in April). She had a VERY negative previous experience with midwives and an obstetrician in a public hospital and now is choosing to birth in a private hospital but would like a Doula's support as well as the midwives in the hospital and Obstetrician (different one than previous of course) of her choice. Any contacts or ideas? She had preliminary discussions with an independent midwife who told her she would not support her if she went to a private hospital, even though the hospital would be supportive of an independent midwife as a support person. So much for woman's choice. Why is it that some people or only supportive of woman's choice when it is in line with "theirs"? Question to ponder?? Any ideas about Doula services in Western Sydney? Pauline
Re: The rising maternal mortality study
Touché, Andrea. :-) Robin - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:15 PM Subject: Re: The rising maternal mortality study I'd like to see how he can guarantee her a vaginal birth and not a c/s if there's going to be an induction and an epidural! Andrea Bilcliff. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I had a consultation with a primagravid woman having twins she is 29 weeks and would like to have her own mw with her during labour and birth . I left the consultation sad she told me she couldn't have got pregnant without her obstet and that he gaunentered her a vaginal birth as he was the expert. That she would be induced at 38 weeks and that she would have an epidural etc etc.I am so lucky I don't have to have a c/s. So what do you see my role as ? I bleeted out . I just want some one to be with me.someone who KNOWS WHATS GOING ON she said to explain what is being done to me. where to from here.I know what's going on but do I have the heart to tell her. Look forward to comments jan -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: cat scan pelvimetry
Title: Blank Lynnette, I was working briefly in our clinic over the last month and saw apetite primip reach term. By 39 weeks the head was still floating over the brim, so I asked our midwife guru who runs the clinic what to do in terms of pelvimetry etc. She said what you say, that pelvimetry is limited and that a trial labour is the appropriate way to proceed. Two days later I was back in LW and she presented with the head deeply engaged in good labour. : -) regards, Robin. - Original Message - From: Lynette M Kelson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: cat scan pelvimetry I have noticed recently an increase in the use of cat scans to assess pelvic capacity for birthing, generally resulting in the suggestion of a cesarean section on the grounds of cpd, even inwomen with a historyof a previous uncomplicated vaginal birth. I was of the understanding that pelvimetry was of limited clinical use because of the amazing capacity the pelvis and the foetal head have for accommodating the birth process. I am interested to find out if this is something occurring more commonly now, or if we just happen to have a creative obstetrician in our area. I'd also like to know how the cost is justified. Working in midwifery never ceases to amaze me. Thanks. Lyn.
Re: Physiological 3rd Stage
Joanne, Your uni should be able provide you with access to the CIAP system. If you dont know about this, your uni library will have tutorials on it. If you are in the NSW public health system it is available at work also. In the search boxes type in any phrases that you think tie in with Phys. 3rd stage. ie.They will come up journals and articles that you can chase either on the net or in your library. This system is really all you need for even a substantial search (imo) Other Search engines are often useful too. Try Google. www.google.com. The secret is often in how your phrase, ie what words you use, in your search. hope this helps. Robin. - Original Message - From: joanne fisher To: Ozmidwifery Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 1:22 PM Subject: Physiological 3rd Stage Hi there, I have to do a lit review for Uni on physiological third stage. I am fairly new at this so was wondering if anyone might point me in the right direction. Thanks. Regards Joanne Fisher
Re: Routine Admission CTGs
Title: Routine Admission CTGs Unfortunately, we do them on admission. The policy makers firmly believe that it is in our best legal interests to do them then. Policy also has us do them continuously during aninduction*sigh* and/or epidural or highish risk. The obvious discrepancies are , who can interpret them correctly and how much of a dodgy trace is associated with a poor outcome? Both answers are 'very few', I feel, the latter often being because of the ensuing intervention so the answer is skewed. regards, Robin. - Original Message - From: Smith, Anne To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 1:47 AM Subject: Routine Admission CTGs In order to enhance the relationship between midwives and obstetricians this unit is reviewing routine care for all women admitted. One of the changes the obstetric team wants is the introduction of routine on-admission CTGs for all women. We are arguing that this is not best practice and research (including Enkin) does not support this, that it actually unnecessarily increases the intervention rate. We used to do this routinely but now do it only if there is a reason. We are interested to know what other units are doing and would be grateful for your input. Regards Anne NOTICE: CONFIDENTIAL COMMUNICATIONThis e-mail message and any accompanying files may containinformation that is confidential and subject to privilege. If youare not the intended recipient, and have received the e-mailin error, you are notified that any use, dissemination,distribution, forwarding, printing or copying of the message and any attached files is strictly prohibited. If you havereceived this e-mail message in error please immediately advise the sender by return e-mail, or telephone, listed below.You must destroy the original transmission and its contents. Any views expressed within this communication are those ofthe individual sender, except where the sender specificallystates them to be the views of Ramsay Health Care. This communication should not be copied or disseminated without permission."Mildura Base Hospital" a member of Ramsay Health Care Telephone: 61 3 5022 Facsimile: 61 3 5022 3234
Re: ACMI provides midwives with legal benefits and insurance options
To place some levity on what is a matter of grave concern for a portion of hospital based midwives: "The issue of indemnity would enable midwives to work either within an employment model, such as in a hospital, or privately, such as a midwife in private practice. Those who work in a combination of the systems would also be covered. Indemnity would range from $2,000,000 up to $10,000,000 depending on the model of practice. Indemnity would be provided for midwives who also work as Registered Nurses within their work setting". Does this in fact mean that if I only take out ACMI insurance and am not with the Nurses Union thatif I am covered as a midwife and not general nurse, that I can refuse to be 'sent' to the general wards to work because I am uninsured? *fingers crossed* - Original Message - From: austmid To: ozmidwifery Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 11:32 AM Subject: ACMI provides midwives with legal benefits and insurance options Information re Legal Benefits Indemnity Insurance for Midwives from the Australian College of Midwives Incorporated. The Australian College of Midwives Incorporated (The College), has negotiated two options of indemnity insurance and legal benefits for its members, and the wider midwifery community, to consider. The withdrawal of indemnity insurance from midwives has threatened the very essence and autonomy of the midwifery profession and choice for women across Australia. Women are now facing increasing lack of choice regarding options for maternity care including choice of practitioner, choice of place of birth, and the ability to make informed decisions about their pregnancy and childbirth care. The College is keen to consult with as many midwives as possible about these options before making a decision. This consultation process was commenced at the recent ACMI National Biennial Conference in Brisbane, September, 19 21, 2001. At this meeting it was agreed that this issue affects all midwives, regardless of place of practice or employment, as it strikes at the very heart of the autonomy of midwives practice and the issue of choice for women. The option favored at the Biennial Conference was where all midwives, regardless of place of practice pay a nominal amount for the benefits of legal benefits and indemnity insurance. The legal benefits would include access to legal advice and representation at any inquiry into the professional ability of a midwife to practice, such as nurses boards, coronial inquiries etc.Other legal benefits are also being negotiated for members, such as free advice on a variety of personal issues as members require. The issue of indemnity would enable midwives to work either within an employment model, such as in a hospital, or privately, such as a midwife in private practice. Those who work in a combination of the systems would also be covered. Indemnity would range from $2,000,000 up to $10,000,000 depending on the model of practice. Indemnity would be provided for midwives who also work as Registered Nurses within their work setting. The other option discussed at the Conference was where midwives who are privately employed pay extra to the midwives who are employed in a hospital setting. The legal benefits cover would be the same. While this option was considered, it was not regarded by the members present as the most beneficial to the profession of midwifery. The College does not have these options finalized as yet. The consultation process with the members and the wider midwifery community will continue to ensure that the option decided on will best represent the views of midwives throughout Australia. The College will also progress the work of negotiating with federal and state governments to provide subsides for midwives in relation to indemnity insurance. Further information will be available on the acmi website ( www.acmi.org.au) next week and in the next edition of the Australian Midwifery News. If you require further information please contact the National Office of the Australian College of Midwives Incorporated on 03 9804 5071, 1300 360 480 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]. I can be contacted on 0417 544 824 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Yours in midwifery Vanessa Owen National President ACMI
Re: Routine Admission CTGs
I think you misunderstand me. By 'dodgy trace' I mean something with, say, variable decels that an experienced practitioner might read in light of the surrounding trace and circumstances and decide was not as suspicious as it apppears. I think you interpreted me to mean if the tracing itself was of poor quality with loss of contact, etc. In that instance, yes, definately. Robin. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 1:10 PM Subject: Re: Routine Admission CTGs If you get a dodgy trace wouldn't it be reasonable to apply an internal monitor to the baby (which is also an intervention) before doing any other intervention? marilyn -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Let's hear from you!
The message from Rhonda did in fact a very cute little card with a story about motherhood in it. However, I do agree those titles can be worrisome, the more so if your virus software is not functioning. Robin. - Original Message - From: Andrea Robertson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: Let's hear from you! Hi Everyone, The list has been very quiet recently and various requests for info have not generated much response. This could be because everyone is just too busy to get involved (which is a pity because we need to support each other as we much as possible), or it could be because people are replying privately. The only way this list works is when we share our ideas - could you please avoid sending messages privately in response to requests made to the list? Also, there is no need to cc the list when sending a private reply - the message will turn up anyway on the list and the intended recipient can read it there. If people have to pay for downloads, the extra messages can cost money Sadie, I don't know how the Rhonda wants you to look at this message got onto the list, but I hope everyone realised that this is just the kind of message that contains a virus or worm. Delete all those messages immediately and don't look at the suggested site! Cheers Andrea - Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: Sad times for Ryde hospital.
lol ,jan. Loved your answer. Precisely what we girls decided to do. As well, we've decided if he wants twins delivered in OT then by definition that is high risk, which by definition requires the VMO ( consultant) to be there also and arent they going to love that.?. hehehe. We may be small, but we're feisty. I also understand this registrar has secured a VMO position at RNS next year.. **high five** Robin. *smacks wrist and slinks away* :-) - Original Message - From: Janet Ireland To: Robin Moon Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Sad times for Ryde hospital. Dear Robin all the staff should consult with the senior registar for everything between the hrs of 11pm and 0600hrs call him in for all orders all checkups etc call in the OR staff for all women in labour ie ? MULTIPLE PRES UNSTABLE LY PLACENTA PR WHATEVER[make them up ] exhust the dill , make shows aph and clots pph he will soon get the picture how dangerous birth is and the hosp admin will see the budget blow harrass him as he is harassing women one of the very dangerous things about delivering women in OR is that the maternity staff are not competent should an emer occur ie can't find stuff both the family and the midwives are out of their comfort zones anyway the bottom line is families must refuse and birth where they like ask the reg to show u proof from the lit for every thing he tells u . lol jan - Original Message - From: Robin Moon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 9:15 AM Subject: Sad times for Ryde hospital. Thought you all might be interested in policy that was presented to the staff of Ryde maternity last week by the head VMO, heavily influenced by the current senior registrar.. Amongst other issues these stood out: 1) ALL twin deliveries are to be carried out in the Operating Theatre. 2) NO midwife is to consult with a VMO without going through the Registrar unless it is a lifethreatening. situation. *sigh*
Sad times for Ryde hospital.
Thought you all might be interested in policy that was presented to the staff of Ryde maternity last week by the head VMO, heavily influenced by the current senior registrar.. Amongst other issues these stood out: 1) ALL twin deliveries are to be carried out in the Operating Theatre. 2) NO midwife is to consult with a VMO without going through the Registrar unless it is a lifethreatening. situation. *sigh*
Re: I learn something every day (long)
What a lovely story, Sheryl. The things you learn. :-) It reminds me of a story of my own from over a decade ago as a freshly trained midwife working in a private hospital. At that time I was just trying to trust my intuition about labouring women. An obstetrician induced a multi 2 late one afternooon with a previous history of a painless 1st stage. He ruptured her membranes, put up synto, and commented she was '2cm'. He left. 5 minutes later, she said "I feel like pushing". Naturally I had conflicting thoughts (cynical and bemused )about doing a VE but in the climate andwith her history, I decided to. I found she was 2cm. "Sorry" was my first word, but wait! That was the only word I uttered, because right under my fingers I felt the cervix go 2-4-6-8-10. Bingo. Fully dilated in the space of a minute. 2nd stage was an entirely different story, but feeling the clinical evidence right under my fingers was a delight and totally reinforced my fledgling ideas about always trusting the women and their thoughts. - Original Message - From: sheryl To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 8:08 AM Subject: I learn something every day (long) That's one of the many things I love about this job. Every birth I have ever attended has never been like any other. a few mornings ago, a got a phone call at 5.55am. It was my partner Shea, telling me in a hurried voice, "Ill be there in a minute, Alison's in labour and it sounds like we need to hurry." (Alison, 37y, primip, normal pregnancy, had had a labile diastolic for the past 2 weeks (from 35 -37w) 140/100 - 130/90, all bloods were normal, small baby, only finished high powered exec job 3 days prior, was 37+5w now. Wanted a homebirth, was distrustful of western medical model((who isn't?))planned pregnancy, been married for 10 years) So back to the phone call.. Shea arrived in about 3 minutes , as she lives around the corner, and as I hop in the car, my mobile rings and its Alisons partner, I can hear the baby crying in the background so I can guess what he's about to tell me. I say to keep them both warm and we're on our way. So the story of her labour is as follows. Alison woke at 0330 with the need to go to the toilet, she had the runs and then went back to bed. She noticed a drop of blood on the paper, but thought nothing of it. She then was woken at 0430 with the same thing. Back to bed, then she got up at 0515, and had a strange feeling of heaviness and wondered if labour might start today so she thought she might hop in the shower. Micheal is still asleep. The shower feels good. At 0530, she calls Micheal into the bathroom to ask if there is anything strange about her bum, as it feels a bit weird. He has a look and says it looks a bit open. They getthe book out and the notes of when to call the midwife by Shea and Sheryl. Nothing in the book about that, and she says to him that she has been feeling very mildtightening type feelings as well. He says to her, well if your talking through it then it can't be that bad. At 0550 she says to him , so can you tell what that is then and he looks between her legs and sees what looks like the baby's head. So that's when he calls us, on the cordless phone while Alison's in the shower. He hangs up the phone and she stands up to turn the shower off and out comes the baby! We arrived at 0625. She is sitting in the shower recess, looking a bit bermused (for want of another word!) Then Micheal asks "do we get a discount?" Shea winks at him and says,"Not after being woken up by a phone call like that!" The baby is little, 2550g, but strong and alert and she goes straight to the breast. Placenta follows, all in bed including Royce the weimerana (who has a terrible flatulence problem)Alison sustained a quite a long labial majora tear (never seen one like that either) which needed suturing, and even when doing that she chattedaway about this and that and it didn't seem to bother her at all. I think she must have an extraordinary pain threshold! (what an understatement) So another huge learning experience for this midwife.. I've heard of painless first stages but painless second stages as well? P.S. I'm reading the Red Tent, what a wonderful book!
Re: Dads in labour
Thanks Melinda, That's a start. I'm simply not sure how well researched fathers in particular, are. I just believe that the active birth movement of the 80'sis over and we should now be giving 'permission' for reluctant Dads not to have to be there. regards, Robin - Original Message - From: Melinda Whyman To: Robin Moon Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Dads in labour Hi Robin Not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for - its not so scientific - however it is among the best stuff on Dads in birth that I've read. Try the book "Birthing from Within" Pam England and Rob Horowitz. She's a psychotherapist/midwife - who has done much work on the emotional dynamics within the birthing space. Blessings Melinda - Original Message - From: Robin Moon To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 12:02 PM Subject: Dads in labour I am looking at doing some research into the adverse effects a reluctant Dad can have on the course of a labour, and the way a woman might alter her behaviour so that HE might cope. Does anyone know of any resources that might be addressing this? thank you. Robin
Re: Twin policies.
Title: Re: Twin policies. Thank you Jan, for that input. Unfortunately, he is still pushing for it to be made policy. I pity the poor women of the North Shore when he becomes a VMO next year. Can I just clarify that this sentence; - 'No offsetting advantages in terms of decreased fetal or neonatal morbidity or mortality were found." implies that whether the 2nd twin was delivered by emergency c/section or by podalic version etc, there was no difference in the(neonatal) outcome?( I dont have my hands on this book until Monday, which is when I am mediating on the issue) This of course is the crux of his argument, that the 2nd twin is always in peril and intervention must be instigated ahead of time to offset it. *sigh*. I wonder where the word 'skill' comes in? Sorry to keep on about this, but I feel so strongly for the women on this issue.His indignant letter of complaint resulting from me challenging his actions contained so much slander about me that I feel it necessary to bring legal representation with me as support for mediation. I just want to be sure of my facts before I face him. Robin - Original Message - From: Jan Robinson To: Robin Moon Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: Re: Twin policies. Dear Robin There are no teaching hospitals in Sydney that have such a policy ... Women with multiple pregnancies and no obvious complications should be able to formulate birth plans which request minimal intervention ... (that does not include a trip to theatre for delivery!) Most dizygotic twins births are perfectly staightforward as long as the woman remains upright and is able to assist. From 3rd Ed Guide to effective care in pregnancy and childbirth ... p.146 "Virtually no data from controlled trails are available to help determine the choice between vaginal birth and cesarean section for women with multiple pregnancy. A single trial has assessed the effect of cesarean section for delivery when the second twin was in a non-vertex presentation. As would be expected, maternal febrile morbidity and need for general anesthesia was increased with cesarean section. No offsetting advantages in terms of decreased fetal or neonatal morbidity or mortality were found." Jan Robinson -- __Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]8 Robin Crescent www: midwiferyeducation.com.auSouth Hurstville NSW 2221 National Coordinator, ASIM__
Re: Birthing Pools
how come we didnt all die then , as toddlers in our wading pools? Robin. - Original Message - From: Andrea Bilcliff To: Ozmidwifery Mailing List Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2001 3:21 PM Subject: Birthing Pools Hi, I was looking at inflatable pools in a local pool shop yesterday when Iwas approached by the shop assistant. I mentioned that I was looking at pools that would be suitable for women to use in labour. The woman was horrified! She said that she wouldn't put goldfish in any of the pools let alone labouring women, because of the toxins released from the pools into the water! Has anyone else heard of this? Thanks, Andrea.
Re: centralised EFM.
Hi Carol, Try contacting the private hospital maternity units. I know the Sydney Adventist Hospital and North Shore Private have the consoles where you can read a trace from another source. You could even set them up to read whilst up at the bedside of another patient. They were excellent at reducing the motivation to actually go into a labouring woman's room! Why bother? The legal system is busy telling us the ctg is 'neccesary' for quality patient care, so there we are... I would say efficacy is reduced, not increased. :-) Also , try Corometrics. I saw their display on a conference at the weekend and they were displaying exactly that, the multi system screen. Robin - Original Message - From: Carol Thorogood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Ozmidwifery List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 9:45 PM Subject: Re: centralised EFM. Hi all Yes I am still around, just ever so quiet! Does anyone have any info or know where I can get it or does anyone have experience with centralised EFM in 'delivery' suites? I need to know about the sorts of EFM where there is a console in the office or somewhere to which all the fetal monitors are linked up. Apparently the monitor 'reads' the EFM and the screen goes red if the trace goes off. The mid students and I have done literature searches and can't find anything about its efficacy. Help, please. Carol PS That's a loverly mat coalition website Joy. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: VIRUS WARNING - do not open any attachments apparently sent from me!
dear Denise, Just a word of warning here with your worrisome email. You have just provided me, a complete stranger, with your total email address book. Worst case scenario, it could provide me with the email addy of someone who didnt want me to have their address. I learnt this lesson myself, and now, if I need to bulk email, I put the address book in the BCC category so addresses cant be viewed by all. Cheers, and may I say, as a very burnt out midwife battling obstreperous systems and apparently omnipotent obstetricians, it's wonderful listening to the debates here of the previous weeks. Keep up the good work. Robin Moon - Original Message - From: Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bronwyn CMWA Keys [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ozmidwifery List [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Pip Brennan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Stephanie Ellis(Murray) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Rebecca Glover [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Phil Maxine Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Kelly and Brett [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jan purcell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Helen Eddy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; GWENDA ELLIS [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Kathy Waters [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Ann Callaghan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Diana Langton [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daphne Siu [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Karen Glenn [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ailsa Rothenbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 12:58 AM Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING - do not open any attachments apparently sent from me! Dear everyone, I got the folowing warning too late. I do not understand but think my computer was infected with the sircam worm. This takes a random file and sends it out as an email attachment, with words like I hope you can help me with this file that I send. Delete immediately. Norton added it to their virus list on 17 July and I guess other virus scanners have done the same. SORRY, Denise PS the virus came to me through midwives and others - Original Message - From: Amir family [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: a friend [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Aileen Emerling [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Aina Kambala [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Aina Kambala [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Al Betsy Gephart [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'ALCA National' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alicia Dermer [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alison Hetherington [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Alistair McArthur [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Amina Sadiq [EMAIL PROTECTED]; AMIR STEPHANIE - SENIOR [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Amir, Stephanie [EMAIL PROTECTED]; amirsm [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Angela De Guzman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Angela Taft [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anita Moorhead [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anita Moorhead - home (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ann Calandro [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ann Hall [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ann-Christin Lundgren [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anne Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anne Eglash [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Antony Fiona Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]; artandcopy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ASAG [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Audry Kensicki [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Aust. Paediatric Review Training Prog. [EMAIL PROTECTED]; austmid [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Barbara Wilson-Clay [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Barbara Wilson-Clay [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Becky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Becky Flora [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bee Tee [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bob Hutchison [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bonato,Sonia [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Bracha Haskel [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brendan Butler [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brendan Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brian Lashansky [EMAIL PROTECTED]; brian thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Brigid Jordan [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Buskards [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Canino, Margo (NWAHS) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Canino, Margo (TQEH) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Carissa Price [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Carol L'Esperance [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Carol Bartle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Caroline Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cath Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Cath Fisher' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cathy Fetherston [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cathy Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cathy Webber [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Child Health Information Centre [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris and Betty Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris and Betty Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris Hafner-Eaton [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Chris Pearce [EMAIL PROTECTED]; chris stephenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cindy Curtis, RN, IBCLC [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Claire Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Colleen Morrison (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Commisso [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Craig Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Cynthia Turner-Maffei [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dagmar Voges [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Dagmar Voges [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daniel Hirsch [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Daniela Peers - Pharmacy (RWH) [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Danielle Susan White [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Alison Hawthorn [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Brockwell [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Hays [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Laurence [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Pallot [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ddjl [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Death Boy [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Deb Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]; DEBRA BRAUND [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Debra Congues [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Della Forster [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Denise Arcoverde [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Denise Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Denise Hynd [EMAIL PROTECTED
Re: Baby Identification
Karine, At our hospital we place a small piece of elastoplast across the babies' back along with a single anklet as well. The anklet often slips off. The elastoplast comes off in the bath by about day 5. Small b/o details are written on this prior to its application. Robin Moon. - Original Message - From: Adrian and Karine Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 9:29 PM Subject: Baby Identification Babies at my place of employment are identified from a single anklet / bracelet ... handwritten details include unique ID number, gender, d.o.b and b/o mother's surname and christain name. The soft plastic band frequently stretches or slips off. I am researching other options that meet the criteria of easy, accurate identification and the ability to link baby to its mother. Security concerns are another, possibly linked issue. Any knowledge of, or feedback re experience with use of alternate methods will be greatly appreciated. Karine Miller -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
