RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Okay, this woman I have been talking of is now ready to de-brief her birth, I will be seeing her tomorrow and she wants to know why it went the way it did (it has been troubling her). I can explain the complexities of a posterior presentation, but I was wondering, into what detail would you go into about the sexual assault and the blocking she experienced? She did not like the sensation of the baby coming down at all. Do I explain how this can affect things, and that it might be an idea to do some healing / groups which can help her work through her trauma to better prepare her next time? Or is it inappropriate? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 11:32 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Yes yes yes! To what Abby said! My first experience of rape was from an obstetrician and I'm so not alone with that. J - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Hi Kelly, You can contact Natalie Dash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nat has supported quite a few women with an abusive history. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it is important to recognise that some women experience sexual abuse for the first time while birthing. ie. an ob or midwife demands to do a VE while the woman is adimantly opposed or an episiotomy is performed while a woman and her partner are saying NO! or, as in with my first birth, being held down by a midwife and ob while he shoved his hand inside me and made rude remarks how I was not cooperating! More and more sexual assault is happening in birthing units and it needs t be addressed. 'NO MEANS NO' no matter what your proffession. Just because it's in a hospital or because it's an OB, doesn't mean it's okay. I would like to read more about this but am heading away for a week. I'll look forward to catching up with others advice when I get back. Love Abby Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth - she also lost her mother recently - so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions. she's feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
This is exactly the reason why I became involved in HypnoBirthing and now the Australian calmbirth program. We teach women to stand their ground and also their partners to take charge too, supporting their partner. If the partners are really taking charge they WILL intervene because now they know they can. Ask questions and threaten if they lay a hand on you when you HAVE said no you will take legal action. The hospital authorities play the game so play the game back. It's sad to do that but that is what we are now facing in todays society. The OB's are sneaky, they start to talk about risks to a baby's life and what parent to be wouldn't fold. In the first class I tell the dad's that they are like the gorilla in the wild. A gorilla in the wild will run a perimeter around its mate giving birth because he knows they are so vulnerable and ANYTHING that comes within that perimeter will be killed ( no we don't tell them that includes midwives ha ha ha) It IS their baby too and they have rights as well. BUT couples are still choosing to have their babies in hospitals with OB's and many smart ones are not ( I am having more and more in my classes having homebirths which is so wonderful), so the only thing you can do is to educate them about their rights and educate women about getting back in touch with their birthing instincts. It is still there, they have just forgotten. I have had MANY who stand up for those rights, no vag exams, waiting another hour, ignoring the purple pushing commands, delaying or cancelling inductions etc. Put them back in charge of their own birthing. Sorry I am on my soapbox but I have had a gutful of all the inductions, caesarians and impatient interventions and what is worse women are handing over their bodies to people they think know more about their bodies than they do. I'm not stupid though, I know we can have special circumstances but gee they are a lot rarer than what is happening now. Kelly, be careful about what you say in the de-brief. This HAS happened to this woman and it is far more important to listen to her and let her vent than giving her too much information. You don't want to create the hate for staff and Ob's because that's the road she chose, maybe she will choose differently next time because she DOES have choice. Give her more of an understanding of why some births happens the way they do and that can be simply explained and that maybe next time she will choose different options. Unless you are a qualified therapist be very careful of not only what you say but how you handle it. She will be very raw and vulnerable and will take in everything you say. It would be far more beneficial to her to praise her for the good efforts she put in and build positive resources for her, otherwise you are leaving her with fearful memories of a bad birth experience instead of focusing on some positive aspects and this could affect any subsequent births. I have heard 60 year old women still trying to debrief their birth because they thought they had no resources. Hope this helps and be strong tomorrow. Birthing with calm Diane Gardner www.dianegardner.com.au - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 4:59 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Okay, this woman I have been talking of is now ready to de-brief her birth, I will be seeing her tomorrow and she wants to know why it went the way it did (it has been troubling her). I can explain the complexities of a posterior presentation, but I was wondering, into what detail would you go into about the sexual assault and the blocking she experienced? She did not like the sensation of the baby coming down at all. Do I explain how this can affect things, and that it might be an idea to do some healing / groups which can help her work through her trauma to better prepare her next time? Or is it inappropriate? Best Regards, Kelly Zantey -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Hello Kelly, Diane said Kelly, be careful about what you say in the de-brief. ... it is far more important to listen to her and let her vent than giving her too much information. She will be very raw and vulnerable and will take in everything you say... agree wholeheartedly with that. Kindness, love and listening. Let her talk and cry if she needs to, ask open questions about how she feels and what she thinks... meaning making is important after any event and particularly the birth of her precious, beautiful baby. Being able to listen to the difficult parts with love and openness are critical, inviting her to talk about her feelings how is that for you... how do you feel about that... and being able to be with her through her pain without having to 'fix' it... it is important to know that she has the internal power and strength to find meaning and resolution the biggest thing is being able to express what has happened in an open, trusting, trustworthy space and being heard... during the reflective process it is amazing what insights we come up with for ourselves. Pain expressed in the loving presence of someone who lets us do that, means the molecules/chemicals of emotion are liberated and are not mapped in our neurology as deeply as it would have been had it not been expressed. It is great she has you to talk to! What a blessing. So many women nurse their hurts to themselves and that hurt becomes woven into the fabric of who they are. warmly, Carolyn Hastie -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Just letting everyone know the SA birth happened early (SROM) and labour started quite well, mum seemed great. BUT... it quickly became very full on and I couldn't believe it was exactly what I had read about. Huge learning curve and I am kicking myself for not realizing sooner that it was going downhill in a textbook SA style. She was transitional at 1-2cms plus a posterior bub, was throwing up, shakes, wanting out, good contrax etc but that cervix wasn't moving fast enough. After lots of hard work she got to 9cms but ended up with a Caesar, it had been two days, we'd all had no sleep and she and bubs were exhausted and going downhill. She was getting a fever, blood in urine, I think traces of proteins / keytones, just everything you can imagine apart from fetal distress was thrown out. She just didn't like the feeling of pressure (baby) and wanted to block it all out. Epi didn't help. VE's were a nightmare and of course given it was going the way it was they wanted to do several. During the caesar I was allowed to come in with her (first one I actually had seen, I found it quite disturbing but of course didn't say so!) and she found it extremely difficult as she had surgery to correct damage from rape. I could tell that she was having major issues and tried to get her visualising and using lots of reassurance but she wasn't there with me... but as soon as bubs was born and she was out of there she was completely fine. We have lots of debriefing to do I think, so will be interesting... so much happened and we all did so much hard work, but it just wasn't meant to be. Came home to two sick kids (hubby makes 3) and didn't get much sleep while hubby slept, so I am still a bit of a wreck and catching up on things. I should be sleeping now, but I am so behind with BB and T4T that people are getting irate with me. *sigh* So thanks all for your support, I can't wait til my copy of 'When Survivors Give Birth' arrive and hopefully next time I can be a bit more prepared and experienced. It was the longest, most tiring and difficult birth I have been to yet. But special at the same time. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBelly Sent: Friday, 14 April 2006 2:05 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Thanks for your emails everyone! I was going to email some of you personally but been a bit flat out and meeting lots of women this week wanting support which is great. Some feedback on this woman though... I have a feeling the SA is going to play up in the birth in some way. When I arrived to greet her, she quickly held out her had to shake, I don't know if she didn't know how to greet me or was worried about other contact (i.e. kiss/hug) but also I felt while she was very happy for me to be there, she kept her distance physically. Also I think I might have mentioned this but she said she attended a pregnancy group (Rhea's) and only went to one as she felt too 'exposed'. She has not attended pre-natal classes and wants our next visit to be about what the birth will be like - I am a little worried about this as I can of course tell her about normal birth but I am not a birth educator and am not completely sure which direction to be heading down, especially given her background. She didn't bring up the SA until I did towards the end, and said that she feels her mother's death 6 years ago is more the issue and feels very raw. So both of these things could be something we'll need to work on, I just don't know how to approach it... any tips appreciated!!! Thanks! Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 11:32 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Yes yes yes! To what Abby said! My first experience of rape was from an obstetrician and I'm so not alone with that. J - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Hi Kelly, You can contact Natalie Dash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nat has supported quite a few women with an abusive history. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it is important to recognise that some women experience sexual abuse for the first time while birthing. ie. an ob or midwife demands to do a VE while the woman is adimantly opposed or an episiotomy is performed while a woman and her partner are saying NO! or, as in with my first birth, being held down by a midwife
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Good work Kelly A mammoth effort for both you and the woman, and yes her surviving goes on. Just think of the 1 in 4 woman who have experienced some form of assault/abuse. I soldier on knowing that 1-2-1 midwifery care would make such a huge difference to these women, as it did me. I must speak to Liz Mullinar again and see if we can crank some awareness up on this one. I hope this Mum settles well into new mothering. Catch some JC xx -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Kelly, good on you for being totally 'with her' through her journey. The body sensations for women who have sexual abuse backgrounds are usually too challenging to work through at the time of birth unless there has been a huge, and I mean huge, conscious and deliberate working through all aspects of the possible triggering of body memories/flashbacks/associations and birth/breastfeeding. The ability to disassociate, like the woman you have been working with, is such a necessary survival mechanism for women who aren't able to accommodate the sensations in that moment. Having you, 'being with' her, in every sense of that concept, is part of the healing journey. It is wonderful that she has you to work through it with her; to explore each step of the process, being a mirror, asking the right questions/mentoring in a loving way, at her pace, to help her to make sense of her experiences and integrate the whole thing in a healthy and empowering way into her sense of self. Unfortunately, 'the system' doesn't realise the impact 'the policies and practices' have on women, especially women with backgrounds of abuse, and so, unwittingly, does things which compound the perceptions and feelings associated with being abused, that is of being, for example, out of control, helpless, done to etc which most often, leads to the women being overwhelmed with emotional tsunamis which leads to physical shutdown. The physical shut down can then lead to devastation (eg . multiple VE's; forceps; epidurals that don't work; episiotomies, vaginal tears; third and fourth degree tears and of course, caesarians with the baby being taken away, which then interrups the attachment process). And so the abuse cycle is perpetuated and reinforced. There is the whole body fluid thing as well, not only the incredible discomfort associated with liquor and mucous and blood from the vagina, also the breast stimulation/breastfeeding can trigger all sorts of wildly repulsive and distressing feelings for the woman. These women have so much to deal with. Justine is a wonderful exemplar of how 1-2-1 care can make such a difference. We have to help women thrive, not merely survive and we as midwives, doulas and loving interested persons have to do all in our power to 'subvert the assembly line' (thanks DenisWalsh) way of providing maternity care and agitate and create 1-2-1 care across the country. When the mothers are cared for, babies do well. It is time to move from fetal surveillance, to loving and supporting the mother through her journey. And it has to start early, even before conception ideally. And even if not before conception, then as early in pregnancy as possible. Women need several visits early in pregnancy (weekly would be good) to work through the issues of their history, experiences, relationships, feelings about pregnancy, nutrition, exercise etc. And NOT in the cattleyard! In relaxed, friendly, homely environments that enable genuine relationships and trust to develop. Justine quotes the statistics which say that 1-4 women have histories of SA. Some researchers suggest it is even higher than that. Sigh. We all have a lot of work to do to change this reality. Good on you Kelly for being there. Sleep well. hugs, Carolyn - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 12:51 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Just letting everyone know the SA birth happened early (SROM) and labour started quite well, mum seemed great. BUT... it quickly became very full on and I couldn't believe it was exactly what I had read about. Huge learning curve and I am kicking myself for not realizing sooner that it was going downhill in a textbook SA style. She was transitional at 1-2cms plus a posterior bub, was throwing up, shakes, wanting out, good contrax etc but that cervix wasn't moving fast enough. After lots of hard work she got to 9cms but ended up with a Caesar, it had been two days, we'd all had no sleep and she and bubs were exhausted and going downhill. She was getting a fever, blood in urine, I think traces of proteins / keytones, just everything you can imagine apart from fetal distress was thrown out. She just didn't like the feeling of pressure (baby) and wanted to block it all out. Epi didn't help. VE's were a nightmare and of course given it was going the way it was they wanted to do several. During the caesar I was allowed to come in with her (first one I actually had seen, I found it quite disturbing but of course didn't say so!) and she found it extremely difficult as she had surgery to correct damage from rape. I could tell that she was having major issues and tried to get her visualising and using lots of reassurance but she wasn't there with me... but as soon as bubs was born and she was out of there she was completely fine. We have lots
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Thanks Justine! I would love more awareness being cranked up, and would happily accommodate any articles on BellyBelly aimed at the birthing women and / or the men that are by their side. One thing we found really useful (unfortunately too late) was having the bed adjusted into a seat position and up above our level - so the bedhead vertical, her sitting on the middle piece with her feet on the footpart of the bed (no idea on terms!). She was up quite high and felt more power, I think - was definitely more relaxed. She just kept telling me how much she liked it there and I think was shocked when she quickly had to go off to theatre, as she seemed to have found a groove. Will try that next time too. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Justine Caines Sent: Tuesday, 2 May 2006 1:11 AM To: OzMid List Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Good work Kelly A mammoth effort for both you and the woman, and yes her surviving goes on. Just think of the 1 in 4 woman who have experienced some form of assault/abuse. I soldier on knowing that 1-2-1 midwifery care would make such a huge difference to these women, as it did me. I must speak to Liz Mullinar again and see if we can crank some awareness up on this one. I hope this Mum settles well into new mothering. Catch some JC xx -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Thanks for your emails everyone! I was going to email some of you personally but been a bit flat out and meeting lots of women this week wanting support which is great. Some feedback on this woman though... I have a feeling the SA is going to play up in the birth in some way. When I arrived to greet her, she quickly held out her had to shake, I don't know if she didn't know how to greet me or was worried about other contact (i.e. kiss/hug) but also I felt while she was very happy for me to be there, she kept her distance physically. Also I think I might have mentioned this but she said she attended a pregnancy group (Rhea's) and only went to one as she felt too 'exposed'. She has not attended pre-natal classes and wants our next visit to be about what the birth will be like - I am a little worried about this as I can of course tell her about normal birth but I am not a birth educator and am not completely sure which direction to be heading down, especially given her background. She didn't bring up the SA until I did towards the end, and said that she feels her mother's death 6 years ago is more the issue and feels very raw. So both of these things could be something we'll need to work on, I just don't know how to approach it... any tips appreciated!!! Thanks! Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 11:32 AM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Yes yes yes! To what Abby said! My first experience of rape was from an obstetrician and I'm so not alone with that. J - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Hi Kelly, You can contact Natalie Dash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nat has supported quite a few women with an abusive history. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it is important to recognise that some women experience sexual abuse for the first time while birthing. ie. an ob or midwife demands to do a VE while the woman is adimantly opposed or an episiotomy is performed while a woman and her partner are saying NO! or, as in with my first birth, being held down by a midwife and ob while he shoved his hand inside me and made rude remarks how I was not cooperating! More and more sexual assault is happening in birthing units and it needs t be addressed. 'NO MEANS NO' no matter what your proffession. Just because it's in a hospital or because it's an OB, doesn't mean it's okay. I would like to read more about this but am heading away for a week. I'll look forward to catching up with others advice when I get back. Love Abby Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth - she also lost her mother recently - so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions. she's feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Title: Message
Hi Nic,
How is Krystal and her bub? What is the story with
the heart prob?
Cheers
Di
- Original Message -
From:
Nicola
Morley
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:19
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth
Sexual Assault
Hi
Kelly,
I
supported a sexual abuse survivor in labour just a few days ago. The biggest
issue with this woman was VEs and we worked with the hospital staff to keep
them to an absolute minimum and made sure they were not done by a male doctor.
The best climate for her would have been the low intervention birth unit
(where VEs are not done routinely) but unfortuntaely her waters broke and were
moderately meconium stained so she was transferred to the hospital, then due
to sudden drop of baby's heartrate she ended up with an emergency caesar which
was very traumatic for her as everything was totally out of her control. She
had a lot of fears regarding vaginal birth and the sensations and associated
strong negative feelings it might arouse for her. These fears were possibly
responsible for very slow progress of early labour leading to distressed baby,
etc, although the baby is still in speciall care nursery with some heart
issues so quite possibly the heart rate issues in labour are part of that.
Some websites which were shared with me which are helpful:
http://www.gentlebirth.org/Midwife/abuselbr.html
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/abuse2002.htm
http://www.dvirc.org.au/HelpHub/PregnancySexualAbuse.htm
Breastfeeding is also causing issues for her for the same reasons of
previous abuse. I think she would cope OK if he just latched on and sucked,
but he is struggling with latching on and not showing much interest and she
can't cope with all the nuzzling.
HTH
Nicola Morley
Doula (hooray - that was my final qualifying birth, so I am officially
no longer and "trainee"!)
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @
BellyBellySent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:32 PMTo:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Birth
Sexual Assault
Just wondering if anyone has any
tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault?
Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots of
tips and suggestions
shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due
soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted
me.
Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator,
BellyBelly.com.au
Gentle Solutions
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth
Support -
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Title: Message
Sorry, should have been off list!
- Original Message -
From:
diane
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:10
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth
Sexual Assault
Hi Nic,
How is Krystal and her bub? What is the story
with the heart prob?
Cheers
Di
- Original Message -
From:
Nicola
Morley
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 9:19
PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth
Sexual Assault
Hi
Kelly,
I
supported a sexual abuse survivor in labour just a few days ago. The biggest
issue with this woman was VEs and we worked with the hospital staff to keep
them to an absolute minimum and made sure they were not done by a male
doctor. The best climate for her would have been the low intervention birth
unit (where VEs are not done routinely) but unfortuntaely her waters broke
and were moderately meconium stained so she was transferred to the hospital,
then due to sudden drop of baby's heartrate she ended up with an emergency
caesar which was very traumatic for her as everything was totally out of her
control. She had a lot of fears regarding vaginal birth and the sensations
and associated strong negative feelings it might arouse for her. These fears
were possibly responsible for very slow progress of early labour leading to
distressed baby, etc, although the baby is still in speciall care nursery
with some heart issues so quite possibly the heart rate issues in labour are
part of that. Some websites which were shared with me which are
helpful:
http://www.gentlebirth.org/Midwife/abuselbr.html
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/abuse2002.htm
http://www.dvirc.org.au/HelpHub/PregnancySexualAbuse.htm
Breastfeeding is also causing issues for her for the same reasons of
previous abuse. I think she would cope OK if he just latched on and sucked,
but he is struggling with latching on and not showing much interest and she
can't cope with all the nuzzling.
HTH
Nicola Morley
Doula (hooray - that was my final qualifying birth, so I am
officially no longer and "trainee"!)
-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @
BellyBellySent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:32 PMTo:
ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Birth
Sexual Assault
Just wondering if anyone has
any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault?
Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots
of tips and suggestions
shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due
soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted
me.
Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator,
BellyBelly.com.au
Gentle Solutions
From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth
Support -
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Yes yes yes! To what Abby said! My first experience of rape was from an obstetrician and I'm so not alone with that. J - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Hi Kelly, You can contact Natalie Dash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nat has supported quite a few women with an abusive history. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it is important to recognise that some women experience sexual abuse for the first time while birthing. ie. an ob or midwife demands to do a VE while the woman is adimantly opposed or an episiotomy is performed while a woman and her partner are saying NO! or, as in with my first birth, being held down by a midwife and ob while he shoved his hand inside me and made rude remarks how I was not cooperating! More and more sexual assault is happening in birthing units and it needs t be addressed. 'NO MEANS NO' no matter what your proffession. Just because it's in a hospital or because it's an OB, doesn't mean it's okay. I would like to read more about this but am heading away for a week. I'll look forward to catching up with others advice when I get back. Love Abby Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth - she also lost her mother recently - so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions. she's feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Thank-you everyone for your replies, you have been most helpful I am off to meet her now so I will let you know how I go and I will certainly email some of you off list later too thank-you for offering to help more! Im really looking forward to supporting her as a chance to deepen my knowledge and experience with this shes birthing at the RWH birth centre Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Jo Watson Sent: Monday, 10 April 2006 11:34 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault On 10/04/2006, at 6:48 PM, Justine Caines wrote: I have been saddened to hear that generally there is little understanding amongst midwives of the needs of survivors of sexual assault. The inflexibility of the system perse and the clock (for the women who take a very long time to birth as it generally is very fast or very slow) is a major impediment. I agree, Justine, there isn't really much discussion about it in hospitals at all - which is surprising (or not!) since at least 1/3 women have been sexually abused in their lives. Another consideration is the privacy of water. So is where she going supportive of deep water immersion for labour and birth?? I second this. Jo
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Hi Kelly, You can contact Natalie Dash [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nat has supported quite a few women with an abusive history. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but it is important to recognise that some women experience sexual abuse for the first time while birthing. ie. an ob or midwife demands to do a VE while the woman is adimantly opposed or an episiotomy is performed while a woman and her partner are saying NO! or, as in with my first birth, being held down by a midwife and ob while he shoved his hand inside me and made rude remarks how I was not cooperating! More and more sexual assault is happening in birthing units and it needs t be addressed. 'NO MEANS NO' no matter what your proffession. Just because it's in a hospital or because it's an OB, doesn't mean it's okay. I would like to read more about this but am heading away for a week. I'll look forward to catching up with others advice when I get back. Love Abby Kelly @ BellyBelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth - she also lost her mother recently - so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions. she's feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, http://www.bellybelly.com.au/ BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
[ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
How about Penny Simkin's book "When survivors give birth"? And really, the same rules apply as should apply to every woman - she gets total control over who's in the room and what happens to her - despite hospital policy. She'd obviously be safer at home where she does have that control. J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Dear Kelly I am happy to talk with you off list as a survivor of sexual assault, with a fantastic birthing experience (number 1) that would have resulted in me being committed to an asylum if I was in the system. This woman would have the very best chance at home but most probably will not choose that path. I would suggest some continuity of midwifery care. Whilst doula support is important it is pretty much critical that she has clinical support from a known carer with some authority (if birthing in the system). ASCA (Advocates for Survivors of Child Abuse) and Liz Mullinars healing retreat Mayumarri would also be able to provide some good support. Liz is a survivor of childhood abuse (former casting agent) who sold everything to set up ASCA and the healing retreat. She spoke at the 2003 Homebirth Australia conference and was very well received. See www.asca.org.au I am unsure where she is at in her healing journey. I know that one can feel healed and yet the sensation of birth can bring one very much undone. I cannot emphasise how important it is to have some clinical support and a trusted carer, because at the end of the day a doula cant challenge (with any authority) the protocols and the clock restrictions and the whole production line that is our current maternity system. I have been saddened to hear that generally there is little understanding amongst midwives of the needs of survivors of sexual assault. The inflexibility of the system perse and the clock (for the women who take a very long time to birth as it generally is very fast or very slow) is a major impediment. Another consideration is the privacy of water. So is where she going supportive of deep water immersion for labour and birth?? Hope this helps Justine
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Yep that sounds like a great idea, will grab a copy I guess I was also after some tips as to how I can discuss it with her tomorrow, I am meeting her for an interview (she was happy to book me after our chat but I insisted on an interview) and I want to reassure her and make her feel as comfortable as possible. She said she wants to make it a positive thing, which of course is our job to help with anyway, but it would be silly to assume this stuff isnt going to come up in the birth. She actually went to a couples pregnancy group with Rhea Dempsey (who trained me), and she felt exposed in the group and didnt go after the first time so I need to be aware of its implications for sure Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support From: owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au [mailto:owner-ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au] On Behalf Of Janet Fraser Sent: Monday, 10 April 2006 7:48 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault How about Penny Simkin's book When survivors give birth? And really, the same rules apply as should apply to every woman - she gets total control over who's in the room and what happens to her - despite hospital policy. She'd obviously be safer at home where she does have that control. J - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to Parenthood BellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
Title: Message Hi Kelly, I supported a sexual abuse survivor in labour just a few days ago. The biggest issue with this woman was VEs and we worked with the hospital staff to keep them to an absolute minimum and made sure they were not done by a male doctor. The best climate for her would have been the low intervention birth unit (where VEs are not done routinely) but unfortuntaely her waters broke and were moderately meconium stained so she was transferred to the hospital, then due to sudden drop of baby's heartrate she ended up with an emergency caesar which was very traumatic for her as everything was totally out of her control. She had a lot of fears regarding vaginal birth and the sensations and associated strong negative feelings it might arouse for her. These fears were possibly responsible for very slow progress of early labour leading to distressed baby, etc, although the baby is still in speciall care nursery with some heart issues so quite possibly the heart rate issues in labour are part of that. Some websites which were shared with me which are helpful: http://www.gentlebirth.org/Midwife/abuselbr.html http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/abuse2002.htm http://www.dvirc.org.au/HelpHub/PregnancySexualAbuse.htm Breastfeeding is also causing issues for her for the same reasons of previous abuse. I think she would cope OK if he just latched on and sucked, but he is struggling with latching on and not showing much interest and she can't cope with all the nuzzling. HTH Nicola Morley Doula (hooray - that was my final qualifying birth, so I am officially no longer and "trainee"!) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kelly @ BellyBellySent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:32 PMTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
; the feelings of a baby touching/sucking on the nipple/breast can feel incestuous and the woman can feel dirty and repulsed by it and the baby. It is usefulto discuss all these aspects and possiblities It is so important/essential that women who have histories of abuse have one to one work/care with someone they trust and can work through these things with. It is ideal before labour and even better preconceptually. It can happen on the day, midwives are generally excellent at establishing rapport with birthing women and meeting them where they are at. There are some midwives who are unaware of the way women who have been subjected to abuse/assault react to labour, thankfully, that is less so these days, so, especially as the hospital midwives suggested she get support, it is clear that they appreciate the challenges she will have and be accordingly appropriate. If you are able to explore these ideas with her and come up with a plan she is happy with, it would be great if you can accompany her to her birth and help her negotiate what is important for her. Having an antenatal meeting with the doctors and midwives involved and talking through things can be very useful. Some women want epidurals as it helps them manage the sensations better - it is very individual and it is important she is able to be in charge. Other things it would be usefulto discuss are: does she want males (either medical or midwife)or not? does she have a choice or not - are their female doctors where she is going? what about VE's? what about mucous and liquor? pads? What about the baby when it is born? Some women are very bothered with the smells, liquids etc and want the baby to be bathed immediately and not put on her skin at all - if there is time to explore the benefit for the baby and herself, that one can be negotiated, but it is often very very challenging for women with histories of sexual abuse/assault what about being covered, what she wnts towear in labour? I could go on and on and I'm sure you will get lots of fabulous information from others. I have had the great privilege of working with many women who have these stories/experiences, they often gravitate to homebirth and privately practicising midwives because they want and need privacy and sovereignty/agency to find their rhythym and their way in labour, birthing and parenting. I'm finding thatwomen with these histories are also choosing Belmont for the same reasons. It is always a source of great wonder to be present tothe enormous strength and resilience of these extraordinary women and their deep passion to do what is best for their babies. All the best to you Kelly, it is wonderful that you are there for her with this most important and profound journey. If I can be of any help, please ask anytime. warmly, Carolyn Hastie - Original Message - From: Kelly @ BellyBelly To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 7:31 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault Just wondering if anyone has any tips on working with women who have been involved with sexual assault? Loaded birth she also lost her mother recently so trying to get lots of tips and suggestions shes feeling fearful of interventions and is due soon. The hospital recommended she get extra support so she contacted me. Best Regards,Kelly ZanteyCreator, BellyBelly.com.au Gentle Solutions From Conception to ParenthoodBellyBelly Birth Support - http://www.bellybelly.com.au/birth-support
Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth Sexual Assault
On 10/04/2006, at 6:48 PM, Justine Caines wrote: I have been saddened to hear that generally there is little understanding amongst midwives of the needs of survivors of sexual assault. The inflexibility of the system perse and the clock (for the women who take a very long time to birth as it generally is very fast or very slow) is a major impediment.I agree, Justine, there isn't really much discussion about it in hospitals at all - which is surprising (or not!) since at least 1/3 women have been sexually abused in their lives. Another consideration is the privacy of water. So is where she going supportive of deep water immersion for labour and birth??I second this.Jo
