date:20101123

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 12:47:43PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 These are based on voicepoly/voicepolywrap, which aims to be an
 easy-to-use replacement for nqpoly4.  

Is there a special reason tha I'm missing for voicepoly using [initbang]
instead of [loadbang]?

Ciao
-- 
Frank

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] many - a library for managing many instances

Hi Hans-Christoph,

just a quick note before I take a deeper look: The archive 0.0.20101122
misses [bundle], instead it has polypoly. You can of course keep
polypoly in, if you like. :)

Ciao
-- 
Frank

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 04:49:49PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 I finally got off my duff and put together this library I've been
 thinking about for years.  After making my own nqpoly5, nqpoly6,
 nqpoly7, runmany, voicepoly, etc.  I've tried to bundle all these
 techniques into a common library.  Since this library is all about
 managing many instances of a Pd patch, I'm calling it 'many'.
 
 http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/many
 
 Objects in the 'many' lib are based on code from Steven Pickles'
 (aka pix) nqpoly4 and Frank Barknecht's polypoly.  Thanks to pix's
 nqpoly4 because that was the real groundbreaking work that proved
 that a useful and reliable instance-managing object could be
 programmed in Pd.  Frank then did the work to make it maintainable
 and hackable.
 
 .hc
 
 
 
 
 Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy
 is related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra
 
 
 
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Re: [PD] GridFlow on Android

2010-11-23 Thread chrism

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:15:45 -0400 (EDT), Mathieu Bouchard
ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
 Got GridFlow on Android working, with no options at all.

Cool!

 Therefore,
 [#out window] does not work, and there's no other form of window
 output, because there is no x11, no quartz, no sdl, no aalib, no tk,
 no gem and no pdp (those are the seven window outputs that GF can
 support). Seems like we will need an 8th one, specifically for
 Android, unless someone gets Gem or PDP to work on that.
 
 The test I made was just to compute a matrix and print it in the console.

Maybe here is a starting point for a lot of work:
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl.html

Cheers,

Chris.

---
http://mccormick.cx

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Re: [PD] Pd + HTML on Android

2010-11-23 Thread Lorenzo Sutton


Hi Chris,

I also know about the web-pure-data and it seems really interesting for 
adding e.g. 'generative audio' to the web (I see it similar to SVG in a 
way).


What also interests me about your project (if I understood correctly how 
it works, because I have no android myself and couldn't play with it) is 
that the 'dsp' and 'interface' (i.e. html+js) remain somewhat separated.
A while ago I posted to the list asking about the possibility of having 
'modern' html connect to pd (via tricks), and it seemed rather impossible.

Maybe with HTML 5 supporting 'true' sockets this becomes realistic again.

Lorenzo.

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [PD] Pd + HTML on Android
From: chrism ch...@mccormick.cx
To: Lorenzo Sutton lsut...@libero.it
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Date: 11/23/2010 09:41 AM

Hi,

No, but there could/should be. I wish I had the time and motivation to
do that. Technically it would not be difficult at all, just time
consuming.

There is also this for Firefox 4:
http://code.google.com/p/web-pure-data

I have not been contributing much but you can see that Brandon and
Spencer have been pushing new objects (with unit tests!) in a at a
remarkable rate. Patches welcome!

Cheers,

Chris.

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 14:37:50 +0100, Lorenzo Suttonlsut...@libero.it
wrote:

Hi,

Is there also a 'desktop' version?

Lorenzo.

chrism wrote:

Get Pure Data patches working on Android devices with HTML +  Javascript user 
interfaces:

http://code.google.com/p/pd-webkit-droid/

Have fun,

Chris.

---
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] many - a library for managing many instances

Hi Hans,

these look pretty cool and very useful. The rj library has two
polypoly-like objects as well: [u_makepoly] and [u_robinpoly] (of course
the latter don't require any externals or modifications to vanilla Pd).

I have found in some benchmarks, that the  [inlet]---[route 0 1 2 3 ...]
technique can become quite slow for larger numbers of instances, so I
have replaced it in the rj-polys with the much faster technique if
dynamically assigned renamed [send]s. I have attached the patches so you
see what I mean. It really makes a difference on slow hardware like
iPod or Android phones.

Ciao
-- 
Frank

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 04:49:49PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 I finally got off my duff and put together this library I've been
 thinking about for years.  After making my own nqpoly5, nqpoly6,
 nqpoly7, runmany, voicepoly, etc.  I've tried to bundle all these
 techniques into a common library.  Since this library is all about
 managing many instances of a Pd patch, I'm calling it 'many'.
 
 http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/many
 
 Objects in the 'many' lib are based on code from Steven Pickles'
 (aka pix) nqpoly4 and Frank Barknecht's polypoly.  Thanks to pix's
 nqpoly4 because that was the real groundbreaking work that proved
 that a useful and reliable instance-managing object could be
 programmed in Pd.  Frank then did the work to make it maintainable
 and hackable.
 
 .hc
 
 
 
 
 Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy
 is related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra
 
 
 
 ___
 Pd-announce mailing list
 pd-annou...@iem.at
 http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
 
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u_robinpoly-help.pd
Description: application/puredata


u_robinpoly.pd
Description: application/puredata


u_makepoly-help.pd
Description: application/puredata


u_makepoly.pd
Description: application/puredata
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[PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

Hi everybody,

 

I just noticed a very strange behaviour concerning [phasor~].

 

It started when I wanted to replace [phasor~] with [creb/blosc~]. Normally
they should sound pretty much  the same except for the obvious aliasing
problem of [phaser~].

Then I noticed that in some cases they didn't sound the same and in others
they did. I finally found out that it had to do with the level going over
1  - only while being doubled.

 

While [creb/blosc~] sounds the same no matter if I boost the levels higher
than 1  [phasor~] starts to cancle it's sound. With a single [phasor~]
it's no problem but two of them will give you trouble.

Since Pd is working with 32 bit float this shouldn't really happen - and
doesn't with [creb/blosc~].

 

Can anybody explain this?

I have my test patch attached.

 

Ingo

 

 

 

#N canvas 352 362 767 567 10;
#X obj 149 177 mtof;
#X obj 149 157 +;
#X obj 164 110 / 100;
#X obj 164 93 nbx 5 14 -50 50 0 1 detune1 empty empty 0 -8 0 10 -204786
-1 -1 -10 256;
#X obj 149 66 nbx 5 14 21 108 0 1 note empty empty 0 -8 0 10 -261234
-1 -1 36 256;
#X text 206 63 note;
#X obj 269 177 mtof;
#X obj 269 157 +;
#X obj 284 110 / 100;
#X obj 284 93 nbx 5 14 -50 50 0 1 detune2 empty empty 0 -8 0 10 -204800
-1 -1 10 256;
#X text 222 91 detune1;
#X text 342 91 detune2;
#X obj 394 491 dac~;
#X obj 461 445 hsl 128 15 1 100 1 0 empty empty empty -2 -8 0 10 -262144
-1 -1 12700 1;
#X obj 421 444 / 100;
#X obj 589 353 == 0;
#X obj 254 370 *~;
#X obj 364 285 tgl 15 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -4032 -1 -1 1 1
;
#X msg 359 28 \; pd dsp 1;
#X obj 284 11 loadbang;
#X obj 164 130 t b f;
#X obj 284 130 t b f;
#X obj 439 177 mtof;
#X obj 439 157 +;
#X obj 454 110 / 100;
#X obj 454 93 nbx 5 14 -50 50 0 1 empty detune1 empty 0 -8 0 10 -228856
-1 -1 -10 256;
#X obj 439 66 nbx 5 14 21 108 0 1 empty note empty 0 -8 0 10 -228856
-1 -1 36 256;
#X text 496 63 note;
#X obj 559 177 mtof;
#X obj 559 157 +;
#X obj 574 110 / 100;
#X obj 574 93 nbx 5 14 -50 50 0 1 empty detune2 empty 0 -8 0 10 -228856
-1 -1 10 256;
#X text 512 91 detune1;
#X text 632 91 detune2;
#X obj 544 370 *~;
#X obj 454 130 t b f;
#X obj 574 130 t b f;
#X obj 149 197 phasor~;
#X obj 439 197 creb/blosc~ saw;
#X obj 559 197 creb/blosc~ saw;
#X obj 254 264 +~;
#X obj 269 197 phasor~;
#X obj 544 264 +~;
#X obj 79 51 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
-1;
#X msg 79 180 0;
#X text 76 162 all off;
#X text 97 49 on;
#X obj 394 444 *~;
#X obj 538 398 loadbang;
#X msg 538 418 25;
#X text 593 443 volume;
#X floatatom 421 463 5 0 0 0 - - -;
#X text 371 253 on = phasor~;
#X msg 79 210 0.5;
#X msg 109 210 1;
#X obj 149 227 *~ 0.5;
#X obj 269 227 *~ 0.5;
#X obj 439 227 *~ 0.5;
#X obj 559 227 *~ 0.5;
#X obj 254 320 *~ 1;
#X text 26 205 multiply;
#X text 26 215 volume;
#X text 26 298 multiply;
#X text 26 308 volume;
#X obj 544 320 *~ 1;
#X msg 79 303 1;
#X msg 109 303 2;
#X obj 26 265 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty normal_(=*1) 17 7 0 10 -4034
-1 -1;
#X obj 119 265 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty messed_up_(=*4) 17 7 0 10
-260097 -1 -1;
#X obj 596 430 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty set_vol_to_max! 17 7 0 10
-258113 -1 -1;
#X text 371 268 off = creb/blosc~;
#X text 39 447 creb/blosc~ can handle a total audio level of 4;
#X text 39 492 Phasor~ cannot go over audio level of 1;
#X text 132 275 (because of 2 osc);
#X obj 12 9 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty set_vol_to_max_first! 17 7
0 10 -258113 -1 -1;
#X text 9 22 then switch between phasor~ and blosc~;
#X text 39 462 creb/blosc~ sounds the same no matter what level;
#X text 39 507 Phasor~ starts to drop level;
#X connect 0 0 37 0;
#X connect 1 0 0 0;
#X connect 2 0 20 0;
#X connect 3 0 2 0;
#X connect 4 0 1 0;
#X connect 4 0 7 0;
#X connect 6 0 41 0;
#X connect 7 0 6 0;
#X connect 8 0 21 0;
#X connect 9 0 8 0;
#X connect 13 0 14 0;
#X connect 14 0 47 1;
#X connect 14 0 51 0;
#X connect 15 0 34 1;
#X connect 16 0 47 0;
#X connect 17 0 16 1;
#X connect 17 0 15 0;
#X connect 19 0 18 0;
#X connect 19 0 4 0;
#X connect 19 0 3 0;
#X connect 19 0 9 0;
#X connect 19 0 17 0;
#X connect 20 0 1 0;
#X connect 20 1 1 1;
#X connect 21 0 7 0;
#X connect 21 1 7 1;
#X connect 22 0 38 0;
#X connect 23 0 22 0;
#X connect 24 0 35 0;
#X connect 25 0 24 0;
#X connect 26 0 23 0;
#X connect 26 0 29 0;
#X connect 28 0 39 0;
#X connect 29 0 28 0;
#X connect 30 0 36 0;
#X connect 31 0 30 0;
#X connect 34 0 47 0;
#X connect 35 0 23 0;
#X connect 35 1 23 1;
#X connect 36 0 29 0;
#X connect 36 1 29 1;
#X connect 37 0 55 0;
#X connect 38 0 57 0;
#X connect 39 0 58 0;
#X connect 40 0 59 0;
#X connect 41 0 56 0;
#X connect 42 0 64 0;
#X connect 43 0 4 0;
#X connect 44 0 37 0;
#X connect 44 0 41 0;
#X connect 44 0 38 0;
#X connect 44 0 39 0;
#X connect 47 0 12 0;
#X connect 47 0 12 1;
#X connect 48 0 49 0;
#X connect 49 0 13 0;
#X connect 53 0 55 1;
#X connect 53 0 56 1;
#X connect 53 0 57 1;
#X connect 53 0 58 1;
#X connect 54 0 55 1;
#X connect 54 0 56 1;
#X connect 54 0 57 1;
#X connect 54 0 58 1;
#X connect 55 0 40 0;
#X connect 56 0 40 1;
#X

Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)

2010-11-23 Thread ALAN BROOKER

 Hi Ico

cd pd/src

make distclean
aclocal
autoconf
./configure (with flags you wish to use, typically --prefix=/usr
--enable-jack --enable-alsa)
make
cp pd.tk ../bin (old stale one crept into the tarball inside the bin
directory--I will fix this shortly and reupload the tarball)

at that point you can either:
cd ../bin
./pd

or (if you feel like this version is worthy being installed system-wide)
make install
pd


 I have gotten further with compiling but I do get the following error at
make install:

t_main.c

t_main.c:18:16: error: tk.h: No such file or directory

t_main.c:38: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘*’ token

t_main.c: In function ‘main’:

t_main.c:59: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘Tk_Main’

t_main.c:59: error: ‘Tcl_AppInit’ undeclared (first use in this function)

t_main.c:59: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once

t_main.c:59: error: for each function it appears in.)

t_main.c: At top level:

t_main.c:86: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype

t_main.c: In function ‘Tcl_AppInit’:

t_main.c:86: error: expected declaration specifiers before ‘Tcl_Interp’

t_main.c:85: warning: type of ‘interp’ defaults to ‘int’

t_main.c:88: error: ‘Tk_Window’ undeclared (first use in this function)

t_main.c:88: error: expected ‘;’ before ‘mainwindow’

t_main.c:90: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘Tcl_Init’

t_main.c:90: error: ‘TCL_ERROR’ undeclared (first use in this function)

t_main.c:93: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘Tk_Init’

t_main.c:99: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘pdgui_startup’

t_main.c:112: error: ‘TCL_OK’ undeclared (first use in this function)

make: *** [t_main.o] Error 1




 Thanks for any tips-almost got it going



On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:37 AM, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 this sounds great. I might have a chance to try it next week (back to dsl),
 if I have a break. But some questions in advance:

 - is there a release program? are the testers to make sure the
 implementations are working well, or do you still take requests?

 - what is going to happen to all this work, hopefully be integrated in
 pd-van/ext?

 - will someone put the code to work in all systems? (especially windows)

 - will you/your team continue to make improvements here (there are really
 lots of things that can be done), or was this a one-off project?

 - is there a feature list, to know how to test the novelties?

 - did you look at ? in an informal presentation here one of their
 developers said that he was inspired by pd, but added lots of details that
 make the user experience much faster and easier, sometimes just by
 implementing small details (let the mouse over an outlet to see the values,
 etc.).


 Best,

 João


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Re: [PD] big soundfiles

2010-11-23 Thread Derek Holzer

And keep in mind that sound quality goes down as file size goes up. This 
is because of the interpolation. You might do better cutting your file 
up and putting it into several different arrays.


D.

On 11/23/10 4:16 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Check the help patch for soundfiler, you'll need to use the -maxsize
flag in your [read( message and set it to something bigger.

.hc

On Nov 22, 2010, at 8:24 PM, ronni montoya wrote:


hello, when i load a big .wav file with sounfiler i get this message:

soundfiler_read: truncated to 400 elements ?


--
::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net :::
---Oblique Strategy # 132:
'Remember .those quiet evenings'

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[PD] Invitation à se connecter sur LinkedIn

2010-11-23 Thread Pierre-yves Fave via LinkedIn

LinkedIn
Pierre-yves Fave requested to add you as a connection on LinkedIn:
--

Barry,

J'aimerais vous inviter à rejoindre mon réseau professionnel en ligne, sur le 
site LinkedIn.

Pierre-yves

Accept invitation from Pierre-yves Fave
http://www.linkedin.com/e/-ipdxif-ggurnm4p-5o/k9oFsrY7pTrUvXmTqDFEK3F2/blk/I1212164_70/6lColZJrmZznQNdhjRQnOpBtn9QfmhBt71BoSd1p65Lr6lOfP0TnPgScj8Ncz59bQxnu3hqoTxxbP8Re34Se30Qej4LrCBxbOYWrSlI/EML_comm_afe/

View invitation from Pierre-yves Fave
http://www.linkedin.com/e/-ipdxif-ggurnm4p-5o/k9oFsrY7pTrUvXmTqDFEK3F2/blk/I1212164_70/c3tvd3oNcz4OckALqnpPbOYWrSlI/svi/

--

Why might connecting with Pierre-yves Fave be a good idea?

People Pierre-yves Fave knows can discover your profile:
Connecting to Pierre-yves Fave will attract the attention of LinkedIn users. 
See who's been viewing your profile:

http://www.linkedin.com/e/-ipdxif-ggurnm4p-5o/wvp/inv18_wvmp/

 
-- 
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Re: [PD] GridFlow on Android

2010-11-23 Thread Jose Luis Santorcuato

OMG...nice!

José

2010/11/23 chrism ch...@mccormick.cx

 On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:15:45 -0400 (EDT), Mathieu Bouchard
 ma...@artengine.ca wrote:
  Got GridFlow on Android working, with no options at all.

 Cool!

  Therefore,
  [#out window] does not work, and there's no other form of window
  output, because there is no x11, no quartz, no sdl, no aalib, no tk,
  no gem and no pdp (those are the seven window outputs that GF can
  support). Seems like we will need an 8th one, specifically for
  Android, unless someone gets Gem or PDP to work on that.
 
  The test I made was just to compute a matrix and print it in the console.

 Maybe here is a starting point for a lot of work:
 http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl.html

 Cheers,

 Chris.

 ---
 http://mccormick.cx

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Re: [PD] GridFlow on Android

2010-11-23 Thread Mathieu Bouchard


On Tue, 23 Nov 2010, chrism wrote:


On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:15:45 -0400 (EDT), Mathieu Bouchard
ma...@artengine.ca wrote:

Got GridFlow on Android working, with no options at all.

Cool!


Unfortunately, we got stuck with bugs that we don't know how to get out 
of. Some weird crashes at startup, that appeared for no apparent reason 
and won't disappear. I can't debug this. I don't sufficiently know about 
how to do this kind of debugging on Android.


So, in the end, it does not work, but if I had this crash fixed, we'd have 
GridFlow with at least support for PPM image format, and I'd expect to be 
not too far from having a window output. However, this would go through 
the android widget toolkit, and not OpenGL, at least for now. I expect to 
keep OpenGL support for much later. I started coding that with JNI but 
were not able to try because of the aforementioned crashes (even though I 
retried without the JNI code, etc...!).


 ___
| Mathieu Bouchard - Aix-en-Provence


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[PD] pd conferences

2010-11-23 Thread richard duckworth

Hi all, are there any pd conferences or mini-conferences planned for
next year? I'm asking because we are thinking of organising a
mini-conference involving pd in Dublin with a tentative date somewhere
in the first week of April?

All the best, Rich  

Rich Duckworth

Lecturer in Music Technology

Department of Music

House 5 

Trinity College 

Dublin 2

Ireland



Tel 353 1 896 1500



It's the most devastating moment in a young mans life, when he quite reasonably 
says to himself, I shall never play The Dane!


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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)

It appears your also missing tk dev libraries

ALAN BROOKER alan.brooker2...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Ico

cd pd/src

make distclean
aclocal
autoconf
./configure (with flags you wish to use, typically --prefix=/usr
--enable-jack --enable-alsa)
make
cp pd.tk ../bin (old stale one crept into the tarball inside the bin
directory--I will fix this shortly and reupload the tarball)

at that point you can either:
cd ../bin
./pd

or (if you feel like this version is worthy being installed system-wide)
make install
pd


 I have gotten further with compiling but I do get the following error at
make install:

t_main.c

t_main.c:18:16: error: tk.h: No such file or directory

t_main.c:38: error: expected ‘)’ before ‘*’ token

t_main.c: In function ‘main’:

t_main.c:59: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘Tk_Main’

t_main.c:59: error: ‘Tcl_AppInit’ undeclared (first use in this function)

t_main.c:59: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once

t_main.c:59: error: for each function it appears in.)

t_main.c: At top level:

t_main.c:86: warning: function declaration isn’t a prototype

t_main.c: In function ‘Tcl_AppInit’:

t_main.c:86: error: expected declaration specifiers before ‘Tcl_Interp’

t_main.c:85: warning: type of ‘interp’ defaults to ‘int’

t_main.c:88: error: ‘Tk_Window’ undeclared (first use in this function)

t_main.c:88: error: expected ‘;’ before ‘mainwindow’

t_main.c:90: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘Tcl_Init’

t_main.c:90: error: ‘TCL_ERROR’ undeclared (first use in this function)

t_main.c:93: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘Tk_Init’

t_main.c:99: warning: implicit declaration of function ‘pdgui_startup’

t_main.c:112: error: ‘TCL_OK’ undeclared (first use in this function)

make: *** [t_main.o] Error 1




 Thanks for any tips-almost got it going



On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 8:37 AM, João Pais jmmmp...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 this sounds great. I might have a chance to try it next week (back to dsl),
 if I have a break. But some questions in advance:

 - is there a release program? are the testers to make sure the
 implementations are working well, or do you still take requests?

 - what is going to happen to all this work, hopefully be integrated in
 pd-van/ext?

 - will someone put the code to work in all systems? (especially windows)

 - will you/your team continue to make improvements here (there are really
 lots of things that can be done), or was this a one-off project?

 - is there a feature list, to know how to test the novelties?

 - did you look at ? in an informal presentation here one of their
 developers said that he was inspired by pd, but added lots of details that
 make the user experience much faster and easier, sometimes just by
 implementing small details (let the mouse over an outlet to see the values,
 etc.).


 Best,

 João


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Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

The thing I'm really afraid of is:

Do subpatches with several [phasor~] used as a audiosignals produce a
different result as intended without summing up in total over 1.
Especially as in my cases where I'm using lots of [phasor~] mostly for
amplitude modulation and most of the time they are not turned down in level.

Ingo


Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
Ingo
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 10:42
An: pd-list@iem.at
Betreff: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

Hi everybody,

I just noticed a very strange behaviour concerning [phasor~].

It started when I wanted to replace [phasor~] with [creb/blosc~]. Normally
they should sound pretty much  the same except for the obvious aliasing
problem of [phaser~].
Then I noticed that in some cases they didnt sound the same and in others
they did. I finally found out that it had to do with the level going over
1  - only while being doubled.

While [creb/blosc~] sounds the same no matter if I boost the levels higher
than 1  [phasor~] starts to cancle its sound. With a single [phasor~]
its no problem but two of them will give you trouble.
Since Pd is working with 32 bit float this shouldnt really happen  and
doesnt with [creb/blosc~].

Can anybody explain this?
I have my test patch attached.

Ingo


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Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

2010-11-23 Thread Derek Holzer

Did you try graphing the output of the combined [phasor~] objects? To 
me, it seems likely that the lack of a zero-crossing in the [phasor~] 
waveform would create a large amount of DC offset, and perhaps that is 
what you are hearing. [creb/blosc~], [osc~] and pretty much any other 
audio waveform generator all have mostly equal amounts of positive and 
negative energy in their waveforms. Only [phasor~] is the weird 
exception and wasn't even designed to be used as signal source anyways. 
I'm quite sure it was mainly intended for use in driving [tabread~] objects.


D.

On 11/23/10 2:40 PM, Ingo wrote:


Do subpatches with several [phasor~] used as a audiosignals produce a
different result as intended without summing up in total over 1.


--
::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net :::
---Oblique Strategy # 113:
Make a blank valuable by putting it in an exquisite frame

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Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

Hi Derek,

that's it !!!  I just subtracted 0.5 from the [phasor~] outlet and now it
behaves as expected. Thank you!

Now I have to find all the [phasor~] objects in my patches und change it
there. Using [blosc~] is just too expensive for simply producing some slight
dirt modulations.

Ingo


 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
Derek
 Holzer
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 14:49
 An: pd-list@iem.at
 Betreff: Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]
 
 Did you try graphing the output of the combined [phasor~] objects? To
 me, it seems likely that the lack of a zero-crossing in the [phasor~]
 waveform would create a large amount of DC offset, and perhaps that is
 what you are hearing. [creb/blosc~], [osc~] and pretty much any other
 audio waveform generator all have mostly equal amounts of positive and
 negative energy in their waveforms. Only [phasor~] is the weird
 exception and wasn't even designed to be used as signal source anyways.
 I'm quite sure it was mainly intended for use in driving [tabread~]
objects.
 
 D.
 
 On 11/23/10 2:40 PM, Ingo wrote:
 
  Do subpatches with several [phasor~] used as a audiosignals produce a
  different result as intended without summing up in total over 1.
 
 --
 ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net :::
 ---Oblique Strategy # 113:
 Make a blank valuable by putting it in an exquisite frame
 
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Re: [PD] pd conferences

2010-11-23 Thread Malte Steiner


On 23.11.2010 14:00, richard duckworth wrote:

Hi all, are there any pd conferences or mini-conferences planned for
next year? I'm asking because we are thinking of organising a
mini-conference involving pd in Dublin with a tentative date somewhere
in the first week of April?
All the best, Rich

Isnt the Linux Audio Conference 2011 going to be in Dublin in April? Lot 
of the participants would be the same so its a good idea to keep it 
close together or was it already your plan and I am Captain Obvious?


For 2011 there was something in the talks in Weimar or London...

Cheers,

Malte
--

media art + development
http://www.block4.com

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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)

 - is there a release program? are the testers to make sure the
 implementations are working well, or do you still take requests?

Not only requests but also active contributions are very much welcome. Ideally, 
patches provided would be both pd vanilla and our pd-compatible, so that 
theoretically everyone can benefit.

 - what is going to happen to all this work, hopefully be integrated in
 pd-van/ext?

I've tried sending over dozen patches upstream over the past year (and there 
are at least another half-dozen I need to submit). While some have made it into 
vanilla Pd, many of them haven't. I think partially because most of the core 
devs are plugging away at 0.43 which for me is a no go as of right now as I 
need something that is as production-ready and bug-free as possible. Other 
reasons include possibly the fact that some of the patches may be seen as 
controversial in terms of how they tackle issues. E.g. scrolling algorithm 
fundamentally changes how canvas spatial context is being calculated and as 
such it may take some time to adjust to.

Tldr; While I hope all patches I've submitted do make it upstream, I have no 
way of knowing. 0.43 will get there and possibly soon but I don't feel 
comfortable running it yet.

 
 - will someone put the code to work in all systems? (especially windows)

That someone would have to be someone else than me as I am swamped as it is and 
quite frankly other OSs are not (and will likely never be) a priority in L2Ork. 
That said, I will gladly merge whatever improvements I can get in this respect. 
We've already put a decent amount of work inside pd.tk to allow better 
separation of Linux from other Oss in terms of customizations but it has not 
been consistent throughout, so it is a simple matter of tracking those 
inconsistencies down and adjusting accordingly.

 
 - will you/your team continue to make improvements here (there are
 really
 lots of things that can be done), or was this a one-off project?

As best as we can. At this point it is mainly me and occasionally I get some 
student help.

 
 - is there a feature list, to know how to test the novelties?

I should've done a laundry list of these as I went but somewhere along the road 
I lost track so honestly I don't know just how many fixes are there. That said, 
I am quite sure there easily dozens upon dozens of them in this release alone.

 
 - did you look at ? in an informal presentation here one of their
 developers said that he was inspired by pd, but added lots of details that
 make the user experience much faster and easier, sometimes just by
 implementing small details (let the mouse over an outlet to see the
 values, etc.).

I saw it briefly and I agree there are a lot of options that could be added. I 
think the important question which ones should be given greatest priority.

e.g. I am right now thinking it would be nice to have resizable cnv just by 
clicking on its bottom-right corner. Ditto for other visual iemgui objects. 
Another thing I would really like to see soon is ability to box-select patch 
cords. Then perhaps an undo doubly-linked list would be nice as well (although 
not sure how hard this would be).

HTH

Best wishes,

Ico

 
 
 Best,
 
 João


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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)


 Ok, this is looking familiar-- have a look at tidy-test.pd, select 
 each group of objects one at a time and do 'tidy up':
 1. Works as it should.
 2. Objects are below the y-threshold, so they (understandably) 
 collapse.
 3. Works as it should.
 4. Objects spaced 30 px apart vertically seem arbitrarily to no 
 longer get tidy.
 5. Horizontal row of objects gets tidy (with arbitrarily large space 
 in between any two objects).  Works as it should-- columns of objects 
 should behave the same way.
 
 Now select all and tidy.  Notice that #3 now gives different results.
 
 -Jonathan

Interesting... It seems to me tidy would work better if it simply
checked first if it had objects that are vertically or horizontally
closer to its x,y position and then adjust according to them only,
rather than keeping a HIST of values it may be able to potentially
adjust to. This would of course require change to the algorithm's
fundamentals. Another thought would be to have the whole thing keep
running with ever-increasing thresholds until something is adjusted or
some ridiculous threshold is reached.

Ico


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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)

2010-11-23 Thread ALAN BROOKER

Hi

Thanks Ico, it's working now- no errors-

*Really* sorry to be a pain but can I ask how I can easily point pd to pick
up my libraries, Gem etc, other than inputting the folders  and binary names
one by one from start up  paths menu?

Thanks again !
Al

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote:


  Ok, this is looking familiar-- have a look at tidy-test.pd, select
  each group of objects one at a time and do 'tidy up':
  1. Works as it should.
  2. Objects are below the y-threshold, so they (understandably)
  collapse.
  3. Works as it should.
  4. Objects spaced 30 px apart vertically seem arbitrarily to no
  longer get tidy.
  5. Horizontal row of objects gets tidy (with arbitrarily large space
  in between any two objects).  Works as it should-- columns of objects
  should behave the same way.
 
  Now select all and tidy.  Notice that #3 now gives different results.
 
  -Jonathan

 Interesting... It seems to me tidy would work better if it simply
 checked first if it had objects that are vertically or horizontally
 closer to its x,y position and then adjust according to them only,
 rather than keeping a HIST of values it may be able to potentially
 adjust to. This would of course require change to the algorithm's
 fundamentals. Another thought would be to have the whole thing keep
 running with ever-increasing thresholds until something is adjusted or
 some ridiculous threshold is reached.

 Ico


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Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian

2010-11-23 Thread ydego...@gmail.com



good!!! i'm free to do what i like now!!!

yeh!

sevy

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Ok, will do. I also have to remove pidip from Pd-extended based on 
this license.


.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 7:18 AM, ydego...@free.fr wrote:


jooo, que espeso ...

i told you 1 times not to package my stuff,
that i'm happy with the packages of goto10...

so [EOC]


ciao,
sevy


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Hey Lluis and Yves,

I see that puredyne has packaged pidip, so it should be pretty easy 
to get it into Debian. The only problem is the license. If it was a 
straight BSD or GPL license, then it would be fine. The problem is 
this line:


NOT FOR MILITARY OR REPRESSIVE USE !!!

That isn't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.

.hc

 



As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be 
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and 
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin













 



Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally 
for machines to execute.

- from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs





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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)



 Thanks Ico, it's working now- no errors- 
 
 
 Really sorry to be a pain but can I ask how I can easily point pd to
 pick up my libraries, Gem etc, other than inputting the folders  and
 binary names one by one from start up  paths menu?
 
 
 Thanks again !
 Al

Assuming you've been using pd-extended, easiest is to copy
default.pdsettings (the one we have on the L2Ork site) and copy it to
your /usr/lib/pd folder. You may want to back your old one up before
doing so if you have custom settings in there already.

Second easiest is to install pd-extended dpkg for your distro (ideally
the one before its executable and path have been moved
to /usr/lib/pd-extended, which is I believe 0.42.5 snapshot from a
couple months ago) and then reinstall L2Ork's version over it and copy
the aforesaid default.pdsettings file.

HTH

Ico





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Re: [PD] 200 voices of timbre-space navigation



On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:52 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:


Hi,

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 12:47:43PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
wrote:

These are based on voicepoly/voicepolywrap, which aims to be an
easy-to-use replacement for nqpoly4.


Is there a special reason tha I'm missing for voicepoly using  
[initbang]

instead of [loadbang]?



It makes the coding much easier, IMHO.  Also, it gives the  
possibilities for dynamically creating inlets and outlets.  But the  
objects don't currently do that, so I am open to someone converting  
them to use [loadbang].  They do require ggee/getdir tho, I think  
there is no replacement for that.  I just got rid of a zexy  
requirement, so its currently [initbang] and [ggee/getdir] AFAIR.


.hc



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Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian

2010-11-23 Thread John Harrison

Yves:

It's your code so you get to choose. From my standpoint as an educator,
removal of PiDiP from pd-extended is very unfortunate. I hope at some point
you reconsider your position.

-John

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:46 AM, ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.comwrote:


 good!!! i'm free to do what i like now!!!

 yeh!

 sevy

 Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


 Ok, will do. I also have to remove pidip from Pd-extended based on this
 license.

 .hc

 On Nov 23, 2010, at 7:18 AM, ydego...@free.fr wrote:

  jooo, que espeso ...

 i told you 1 times not to package my stuff,
 that i'm happy with the packages of goto10...

 so [EOC]


 ciao,
 sevy


 Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


 Hey Lluis and Yves,

 I see that puredyne has packaged pidip, so it should be pretty easy to
 get it into Debian. The only problem is the license. If it was a straight
 BSD or GPL license, then it would be fine. The problem is this line:

 NOT FOR MILITARY OR REPRESSIVE USE !!!

 That isn't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.

 .hc

 


 As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
 glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this 
 we
 should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin










 


 Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for
 machines to execute.
 - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs




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Re: [PD] 200 voices of timbre-space navigation



Its really simple when you look at it, just checkout voicetest~.pd,  
that's it, multiplied by 200.


.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 1:34 AM, Phil Stone wrote:

Really, really great, Hans!  I'm having a lot of fun with this, and  
look forward to digging into it to figure out how it works...



Phil


On 11/22/10 9:47 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


I was just working on a library of objects for creating and  
managing many instances.  In the process I created a couple  
examples to play with:


- ticker.pd, a 100 voice clock ticker, make it tick very fast!

- run-200voicestest.pd, a 200 voice sample stretcher and panner

These are based on voicepoly/voicepolywrap, which aims to be an  
easy-to-use replacement for nqpoly4.  You can drop voicepoly.pd and  
voicepolywrap.pd into your path (http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files 
 ) and then use it from anywhere without having to copy it into  
your project.


http://at.or.at/hans/pd/play/200voices.zip

Hopefully you have as much as I did making it!

.hc




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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] many - a library for managing many instances



That was just a preliminary release, check the SVN for the most up-to- 
date (also I think I updated the tarball to have [bundle]).


The dynamic send idea is interesting, especially since you benchmarked  
it.  How did you benchmark it?  That would be useful.  Also, did you  
try making the send symbol using a message box to benchmark, i.e.:


   |
  [pack float $0]
   |
  [$2-in1-$1(
   |
   [send]
|

It seems that the help patches do require something besides Pd- 
vanilla, u_robinpoly-help.pd gives me this:

 soundoutput
... couldn't create
 u_loadmeter
... couldn't create
 u_robinpolymono
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
 s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create

When I launch u_makepoly-help.pd straight from rjdj/rjlib/rj, I get  
this:

 soundoutput
... couldn't create
1004-poly 3 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 5 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 7 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 9 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 11 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 13 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 15 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 17 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed

And this from u_robinpoly-help:
 soundoutput
... couldn't create
1160-poly 0 0 3 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 3 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 5 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 5 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 7 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 7 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 9 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 9 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 11 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 11 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 13 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 13 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 15 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 15 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 17 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 17 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 4:07 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:


Hi Hans,

these look pretty cool and very useful. The rj library has two
polypoly-like objects as well: [u_makepoly] and [u_robinpoly] (of  
course
the latter don't require any externals or modifications to vanilla  
Pd).


I have found in some benchmarks, that the  [inlet]---[route 0 1 2  
3 ...]

technique can become quite slow for larger numbers of instances, so I
have replaced it in the rj-polys with the much faster technique if
dynamically assigned renamed [send]s. I have attached the patches so  
you

see what I mean. It really makes a difference on slow hardware like
iPod or Android phones.

Ciao
--
Frank

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 04:49:49PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
wrote:

I finally got off my duff and put together this library I've been
thinking about for years.  After making my own nqpoly5, nqpoly6,
nqpoly7, runmany, voicepoly, etc.  I've tried to bundle all these
techniques into a common library.  Since this library is all about
managing many instances of a Pd patch, I'm calling it 'many'.

http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/many

Objects in the 'many' lib are based on code from Steven Pickles'
(aka pix) nqpoly4 and Frank Barknecht's polypoly.  Thanks to pix's
nqpoly4 because that was the real groundbreaking work that proved
that a useful and reliable instance-managing object could be
programmed in Pd.  Frank then did the work to make it maintainable
and hackable.

.hc




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Re: [PD] big soundfiles



I think iemlib/soundfile_info is less buggy than ext13/wavinfo these  
days.


.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:44 AM, João Pais wrote:

I usually use the [wavinfo] to know how big a file is, and then  
maxsize $1 to set an array to the necessary size.


Maybe it would make sense to remove this 4M samples boundary from  
Pd? there are more and more people for whom that's just in the way.


João



Check the help patch for soundfiler, you'll need to use the - 
maxsize flag in your [read( message and set it to something bigger.


.hc

On Nov 22, 2010, at 8:24 PM, ronni montoya wrote:

hello, when i load a big .wav file with sounfiler i get this  
message:


soundfiler_read: truncated to 400 elements ?


and i cant load the complety sound , just a part.

Is there any way of loading complete .wav files?



thanks


R.

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Re: [PD] 200 voices of timbre-space navigation

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:57:26AM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:52 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
 Is there a special reason tha I'm missing for voicepoly using  [initbang]
 instead of [loadbang]?

 It makes the coding much easier, IMHO.  Also, it gives the possibilities 
 for dynamically creating inlets and outlets.  But the objects don't 
 currently do that, so I am open to someone converting them to use 
 [loadbang].  They do require ggee/getdir tho, I think there is no 
 replacement for that.  I just got rid of a zexy requirement, so its 
 currently [initbang] and [ggee/getdir] AFAIR.

The problem with initbang is that currently it requires a patched version of Pd
so it's not as easy to install as an external. Unless you create inlets or
outlets dynamically, initbang IMO is superflous and patching with loadbang is
almost as easy: Just add one loadbang message box and trigger it at the end.

Creating inlets/outlets dynamically can be useful, but actually it would be
most useful to get rid of the nasty wrapper abstractions, but for that you'd
ideally need a way to detect the number of inlets/outlets a dynamically created
object has. I think, iemguts has something for that.  The rj polys don't use
wrappers, but they require your abstractions to be designed specially, for
instance midi-note pairs in and stereo outs. In practice this is sufficient in
many cases.

I didn't look in detail at how [getdir] is used, but for the rj poly objects we
just require that the things you want to create dynamically are in your search
path, just like for [polypoly]. I think, that's probably a reasonable
assumption. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me?  _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] many - a library for managing many instances

Hi,

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 12:28:12PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
 That was just a preliminary release, check the SVN for the most up-to- 
 date (also I think I updated the tarball to have [bundle]).

 The dynamic send idea is interesting, especially since you benchmarked  
 it.  How did you benchmark it? 

I think I just ran a bunch of messages through it and checked with [cputime]. 

 That would be useful.  Also, did you try 
 making the send symbol using a message box to benchmark, i.e.:

|
   [pack float $0]
|
   [$2-in1-$1(
|
[send]
 |

Ah, that should be even faster, thanks for pointing it out.

 It seems that the help patches do require something besides Pd-vanilla, 

Yeah, they require the rj library.

 u_robinpoly-help.pd gives me this:
  soundoutput
 ... couldn't create
  u_loadmeter
 ... couldn't create
  u_robinpolymono
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create
  s_drumelectro a b c d
 ... couldn't create

 When I launch u_makepoly-help.pd straight from rjdj/rjlib/rj, I get  
 this:
  soundoutput
 ... couldn't create

This is normally provided by the RjDj app, so it's not part of the lib. It's 
available here
https://github.com/rjdj/rjlib/tree/master/pd/
of just copy over any output.pd you prefer.

The other errors are harmless (I think, the help file still have some
mono/stereo bug)

Ciao
-- 
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Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

2010-11-23 Thread Derek Holzer


Have a look here:

http://en.flossmanuals.net/PureData/DCOffset

My basic formula is

[*~ 2]
|
[-~ 1]

Best!
D.

On 11/23/10 3:18 PM, Ingo wrote:

Hi Derek,

that's it !!!  I just subtracted 0.5 from the [phasor~] outlet and now it
behaves as expected. Thank you!

Now I have to find all the [phasor~] objects in my patches und change it
there. Using [blosc~] is just too expensive for simply producing some slight
dirt modulations.

Ingo



-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von

Derek

Holzer
Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 14:49
An: pd-list@iem.at
Betreff: Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

Did you try graphing the output of the combined [phasor~] objects? To
me, it seems likely that the lack of a zero-crossing in the [phasor~]
waveform would create a large amount of DC offset, and perhaps that is
what you are hearing. [creb/blosc~], [osc~] and pretty much any other
audio waveform generator all have mostly equal amounts of positive and
negative energy in their waveforms. Only [phasor~] is the weird
exception and wasn't even designed to be used as signal source anyways.
I'm quite sure it was mainly intended for use in driving [tabread~]

objects.


D.

On 11/23/10 2:40 PM, Ingo wrote:


Do subpatches with several [phasor~] used as a audiosignals produce a
different result as intended without summing up in total over 1.


--
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---Oblique Strategy # 113:
Make a blank valuable by putting it in an exquisite frame

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Re: [PD] 200 voices of timbre-space navigation



On Nov 23, 2010, at 12:32 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:57:26AM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
wrote:

On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:52 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Is there a special reason tha I'm missing for voicepoly using   
[initbang]

instead of [loadbang]?


It makes the coding much easier, IMHO.  Also, it gives the  
possibilities

for dynamically creating inlets and outlets.  But the objects don't
currently do that, so I am open to someone converting them to use
[loadbang].  They do require ggee/getdir tho, I think there is no
replacement for that.  I just got rid of a zexy requirement, so its
currently [initbang] and [ggee/getdir] AFAIR.


The problem with initbang is that currently it requires a patched  
version of Pd
so it's not as easy to install as an external. Unless you create  
inlets or
outlets dynamically, initbang IMO is superflous and patching with  
loadbang is
almost as easy: Just add one loadbang message box and trigger it  
at the end.


It is true that [initbang] is not easy to use with Pd-vanilla. I think  
its a good idea to use [loadbang] instead, as long as it provides the  
same functionality.  I'll try it.


Creating inlets/outlets dynamically can be useful, but actually it  
would be
most useful to get rid of the nasty wrapper abstractions, but for  
that you'd
ideally need a way to detect the number of inlets/outlets a  
dynamically created
object has. I think, iemguts has something for that.  The rj polys  
don't use
wrappers, but they require your abstractions to be designed  
specially, for
instance midi-note pairs in and stereo outs. In practice this is  
sufficient in

many cases.


Check out bundle, instances, and instances~.  They don't use the  
wrapper abstraction.  But they also don't do voice allocation  
management.  To do that without the wrapper abstraction would be the  
real win.  I guess that would be possible using your dynamic send  
technique, perhaps keeping a list of busy instances.  I guess you are  
using [poly] to do the voice allocation, which doesn't work for more  
generic things.


I didn't look in detail at how [getdir] is used, but for the rj poly  
objects we
just require that the things you want to create dynamically are in  
your search

path, just like for [polypoly]. I think, that's probably a reasonable
assumption.



That's a dangerous assumption on anything but a small, tightly  
controlled system.  That takes us back to the bad old days when if you  
used an external library, chances are your patch would not run on  
anyone else's machine.  A library should work regardless of the user's  
path setup, etc.  getdir is used to get the full path to the  
abstraction that's given to the poly object, and then each instance is  
created using the full path.


ggee uses the Tcl/Tk license, so I think you would be able to  
distribute it via the Apple iTunes store (i.e. not GPL).


.hc






It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we  
don't have to examine our own lives., from The Idols of  
Environmentalism, by Curtis White






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Re: [PD] many - a library for managing many instances



Ok, I refactored voices~.pd (previously known as voicepoly) so that it  
no longer uses [initbang].  It turns out the rest of the 'many' lib  
was already using [loadbang].  Also I just remembered another  
advantage to using [initbang]: you can create a [throw~] to have audio  
inlets, and Pd won't complain about no missing [catch~].


.hc


On Nov 23, 2010, at 12:28 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:



That was just a preliminary release, check the SVN for the most up- 
to-date (also I think I updated the tarball to have [bundle]).


The dynamic send idea is interesting, especially since you  
benchmarked it.  How did you benchmark it?  That would be useful.   
Also, did you try making the send symbol using a message box to  
benchmark, i.e.:


  |
 [pack float $0]
  |
 [$2-in1-$1(
  |
  [send]
   |

It seems that the help patches do require something besides Pd- 
vanilla, u_robinpoly-help.pd gives me this:

soundoutput
... couldn't create
u_loadmeter
... couldn't create
u_robinpolymono
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create
s_drumelectro a b c d
... couldn't create

When I launch u_makepoly-help.pd straight from rjdj/rjlib/rj, I get  
this:

soundoutput
... couldn't create
1004-poly 3 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 5 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 7 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 9 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 11 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 13 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 15 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1004-poly 17 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed

And this from u_robinpoly-help:
soundoutput
... couldn't create
1160-poly 0 0 3 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 3 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 5 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 5 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 7 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 7 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 9 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 9 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 11 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 11 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 13 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 13 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 15 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 15 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed
1160-poly 0 0 17 1 (receive-canvas) connection failed
1160-poly 17 1 2 0 (canvas-throw~) connection failed

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 4:07 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:


Hi Hans,

these look pretty cool and very useful. The rj library has two
polypoly-like objects as well: [u_makepoly] and [u_robinpoly] (of  
course
the latter don't require any externals or modifications to vanilla  
Pd).


I have found in some benchmarks, that the  [inlet]---[route 0 1 2  
3 ...]

technique can become quite slow for larger numbers of instances, so I
have replaced it in the rj-polys with the much faster technique if
dynamically assigned renamed [send]s. I have attached the patches  
so you

see what I mean. It really makes a difference on slow hardware like
iPod or Android phones.

Ciao
--
Frank

On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 04:49:49PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner  
wrote:

I finally got off my duff and put together this library I've been
thinking about for years.  After making my own nqpoly5, nqpoly6,
nqpoly7, runmany, voicepoly, etc.  I've tried to bundle all these
techniques into a common library.  Since this library is all about
managing many instances of a Pd patch, I'm calling it 'many'.

http://puredata.info/community/projects/software/many

Objects in the 'many' lib are based on code from Steven Pickles'
(aka pix) nqpoly4 and Frank Barknecht's polypoly.  Thanks to pix's
nqpoly4 because that was the real groundbreaking work that proved
that a useful and reliable instance-managing object could be
programmed in Pd.  Frank then did the work to make it maintainable
and hackable.

.hc




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is related to the telescope.  -Edsger Dykstra



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Re: [PD] 200 voices of timbre-space navigation

Ah, excellent! Please keep me posted, this library is very much a
work in progress. I want to make it as easy to use as possible, while
being super flexible.

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 12:05 PM, Phil Stone wrote:

I meant I'm going to dig in to your many techniques...thanks for
putting this out.

Phil

On 11/23/10 9:00 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Its really simple when you look at it, just checkout voicetest~.pd,
that's it, multiplied by 200.

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 1:34 AM, Phil Stone wrote:

Really, really great, Hans! I'm having a lot of fun with this,
and look forward to digging into it to figure out how it works...

Phil

On 11/22/10 9:47 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

I was just working on a library of objects for creating and
managing many instances. In the process I created a couple
examples to play with:

- ticker.pd, a 100 voice clock ticker, make it tick very fast!

- run-200voicestest.pd, a 200 voice sample stretcher and panner

These are based on voicepoly/voicepolywrap, which aims to be an
easy-to-use replacement for nqpoly4. You can drop voicepoly.pd
and voicepolywrap.pd into your path (http://puredata.info/docs/faq/how-do-i-install-externals-and-help-files
) and then use it from anywhere without having to copy it into
your project.

http://at.or.at/hans/pd/play/200voices.zip

Hopefully you have as much as I did making it!

.hc

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)



On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:37 AM, João Pais wrote:


Hi,

this sounds great. I might have a chance to try it next week (back  
to dsl), if I have a break. But some questions in advance:


- is there a release program? are the testers to make sure the  
implementations are working well, or do you still take requests?


- what is going to happen to all this work, hopefully be integrated  
in pd-van/ext?


- will someone put the code to work in all systems? (especially  
windows)


- will you/your team continue to make improvements here (there are  
really lots of things that can be done), or was this a one-off  
project?


- is there a feature list, to know how to test the novelties?

- did you look at ? in an informal presentation here one of  
their developers said that he was inspired by pd, but added lots of  
details that make the user experience much faster and easier,  
sometimes just by implementing small details (let the mouse over an  
outlet to see the values, etc.).


The patch from Joe Sarlo does the mouse-over outlet values.  He called  
it magicglass.  I think the approach should still work, the patch just  
needs to be applied to recent code.


.hc




Best,

João

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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)



On Nov 23, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:


- is there a release program? are the testers to make sure the
implementations are working well, or do you still take requests?


Not only requests but also active contributions are very much  
welcome. Ideally, patches provided would be both pd vanilla and our  
pd-compatible, so that theoretically everyone can benefit.


- what is going to happen to all this work, hopefully be integrated  
in

pd-van/ext?


I've tried sending over dozen patches upstream over the past year  
(and there are at least another half-dozen I need to submit). While  
some have made it into vanilla Pd, many of them haven't. I think  
partially because most of the core devs are plugging away at 0.43  
which for me is a no go as of right now as I need something that is  
as production-ready and bug-free as possible. Other reasons include  
possibly the fact that some of the patches may be seen as  
controversial in terms of how they tackle issues. E.g. scrolling  
algorithm fundamentally changes how canvas spatial context is being  
calculated and as such it may take some time to adjust to.


Tldr; While I hope all patches I've submitted do make it upstream, I  
have no way of knowing. 0.43 will get there and possibly soon but I  
don't feel comfortable running it yet.


We definitely welcome improvements, the problem is that these patches  
are for 0.42, and the Tcl code in 0.43 has changed immensely.   
Hopefully you can port them to 0.43, that would be a necessary step  
for me to include them.


- will someone put the code to work in all systems? (especially  
windows)


That someone would have to be someone else than me as I am swamped  
as it is and quite frankly other OSs are not (and will likely never  
be) a priority in L2Ork. That said, I will gladly merge whatever  
improvements I can get in this respect. We've already put a decent  
amount of work inside pd.tk to allow better separation of Linux from  
other Oss in terms of customizations but it has not been consistent  
throughout, so it is a simple matter of tracking those  
inconsistencies down and adjusting accordingly.




- will you/your team continue to make improvements here (there are
really
lots of things that can be done), or was this a one-off project?


As best as we can. At this point it is mainly me and occasionally I  
get some student help.




- is there a feature list, to know how to test the novelties?


I should've done a laundry list of these as I went but somewhere  
along the road I lost track so honestly I don't know just how many  
fixes are there. That said, I am quite sure there easily dozens upon  
dozens of them in this release alone.




- did you look at ? in an informal presentation here one of their
developers said that he was inspired by pd, but added lots of  
details that

make the user experience much faster and easier, sometimes just by
implementing small details (let the mouse over an outlet to see the
values, etc.).


I saw it briefly and I agree there are a lot of options that could  
be added. I think the important question which ones should be given  
greatest priority.


e.g. I am right now thinking it would be nice to have resizable cnv  
just by clicking on its bottom-right corner. Ditto for other visual  
iemgui objects. Another thing I would really like to see soon is  
ability to box-select patch cords. Then perhaps an undo doubly- 
linked list would be nice as well (although not sure how hard this  
would be).


Perhaps you'd be interested in my unreleased tkwidgets library, its in  
SVN.  Basically, I am working on creating a framework to make it much  
easier to make GUI objects. Part of that framework includes things  
like resizing things with the mouse.  I have that much working but its  
buggy still.  Once that gets ironed out, I plan on making Pd versions  
of all the core Tk widgets, including the Tk canvas.  In tkwdigets  
there is already a [text] object that works quite nicely, save a few  
bugs.


.hc




HTH

Best wishes,

Ico




Best,

João



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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)



On Nov 23, 2010, at 2:55 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:



On Nov 23, 2010, at 9:29 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:


- is there a release program? are the testers to make sure the
implementations are working well, or do you still take requests?


Not only requests but also active contributions are very much  
welcome. Ideally, patches provided would be both pd vanilla and our  
pd-compatible, so that theoretically everyone can benefit.


- what is going to happen to all this work, hopefully be  
integrated in

pd-van/ext?


I've tried sending over dozen patches upstream over the past year  
(and there are at least another half-dozen I need to submit). While  
some have made it into vanilla Pd, many of them haven't. I think  
partially because most of the core devs are plugging away at 0.43  
which for me is a no go as of right now as I need something that is  
as production-ready and bug-free as possible. Other reasons include  
possibly the fact that some of the patches may be seen as  
controversial in terms of how they tackle issues. E.g. scrolling  
algorithm fundamentally changes how canvas spatial context is being  
calculated and as such it may take some time to adjust to.


Tldr; While I hope all patches I've submitted do make it upstream,  
I have no way of knowing. 0.43 will get there and possibly soon but  
I don't feel comfortable running it yet.


We definitely welcome improvements, the problem is that these  
patches are for 0.42, and the Tcl code in 0.43 has changed  
immensely.  Hopefully you can port them to 0.43, that would be a  
necessary step for me to include them.


- will someone put the code to work in all systems? (especially  
windows)


That someone would have to be someone else than me as I am swamped  
as it is and quite frankly other OSs are not (and will likely never  
be) a priority in L2Ork. That said, I will gladly merge whatever  
improvements I can get in this respect. We've already put a decent  
amount of work inside pd.tk to allow better separation of Linux  
from other Oss in terms of customizations but it has not been  
consistent throughout, so it is a simple matter of tracking those  
inconsistencies down and adjusting accordingly.




- will you/your team continue to make improvements here (there are
really
lots of things that can be done), or was this a one-off project?


As best as we can. At this point it is mainly me and occasionally I  
get some student help.




- is there a feature list, to know how to test the novelties?


I should've done a laundry list of these as I went but somewhere  
along the road I lost track so honestly I don't know just how many  
fixes are there. That said, I am quite sure there easily dozens  
upon dozens of them in this release alone.




- did you look at ? in an informal presentation here one of  
their
developers said that he was inspired by pd, but added lots of  
details that

make the user experience much faster and easier, sometimes just by
implementing small details (let the mouse over an outlet to see the
values, etc.).


I saw it briefly and I agree there are a lot of options that could  
be added. I think the important question which ones should be given  
greatest priority.


e.g. I am right now thinking it would be nice to have resizable cnv  
just by clicking on its bottom-right corner. Ditto for other visual  
iemgui objects. Another thing I would really like to see soon is  
ability to box-select patch cords. Then perhaps an undo doubly- 
linked list would be nice as well (although not sure how hard this  
would be).


Perhaps you'd be interested in my unreleased tkwidgets library, its  
in SVN.  Basically, I am working on creating a framework to make it  
much easier to make GUI objects. Part of that framework includes  
things like resizing things with the mouse.  I have that much  
working but its buggy still.  Once that gets ironed out, I plan on  
making Pd versions of all the core Tk widgets, including the Tk  
canvas.  In tkwdigets there is already a [text] object that works  
quite nicely, save a few bugs.


I forgot to add, my experience with the iemgui code has told me that  
they would be very difficult to improve, hence the tkwidgets lib.


.hc




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King, Jr.




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Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian

2010-11-23 Thread Patrick Pagano


removing pdp/pidip is a bad idea

On 11/23/2010 11:58 AM, John Harrison wrote:

Yves:

It's your code so you get to choose. From my standpoint as an 
educator, removal of PiDiP from pd-extended is very unfortunate. I 
hope at some point you reconsider your position.


-John

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:46 AM, ydego...@gmail.com 
mailto:ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.com 
mailto:ydego...@gmail.com wrote:



good!!! i'm free to do what i like now!!!

yeh!

sevy

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Ok, will do. I also have to remove pidip from Pd-extended
based on this license.

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 7:18 AM, ydego...@free.fr
mailto:ydego...@free.fr wrote:

jooo, que espeso ...

i told you 1 times not to package my stuff,
that i'm happy with the packages of goto10...

so [EOC]


ciao,
sevy


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Hey Lluis and Yves,

I see that puredyne has packaged pidip, so it should
be pretty easy to get it into Debian. The only problem
is the license. If it was a straight BSD or GPL
license, then it would be fine. The problem is this line:

NOT FOR MILITARY OR REPRESSIVE USE !!!

That isn't free according to the Debian Free Software
Guidelines.

.hc





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others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve
others by any invention of ours; and this we should do
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Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian



PDP has a regular GPL license, so its staying in.

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Patrick Pagano wrote:


removing pdp/pidip is a bad idea

On 11/23/2010 11:58 AM, John Harrison wrote:


Yves:

It's your code so you get to choose. From my standpoint as an  
educator, removal of PiDiP from pd-extended is very unfortunate. I  
hope at some point you reconsider your position.


-John

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:46 AM, ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.com 
 wrote:


good!!! i'm free to do what i like now!!!

yeh!

sevy

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Ok, will do. I also have to remove pidip from Pd-extended based on  
this license.


.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 7:18 AM, ydego...@free.fr wrote:

jooo, que espeso ...

i told you 1 times not to package my stuff,
that i'm happy with the packages of goto10...

so [EOC]


ciao,
sevy


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Hey Lluis and Yves,

I see that puredyne has packaged pidip, so it should be pretty easy  
to get it into Debian. The only problem is the license. If it was a  
straight BSD or GPL license, then it would be fine. The problem is  
this line:


NOT FOR MILITARY OR REPRESSIVE USE !!!

That isn't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.

.hc



As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should  
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;  
and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin













Programs should be written for people to read, and only  
incidentally for machines to execute.

- from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs




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[PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

2010-11-23 Thread Pierre Massat

Dear List,

I was trying to build a simple (very simple) metronome using [metro] to see
if i could change the speed without having to reset the metro object (has
this changed in 0.42 by the way?). In order to test it i need an equally
simple ADSR upon an oscillator to hear the bangs.

Now please look at the attached patch because i don't understand why it
won't work. I'm very confused...

Pierre


simple_ADSR.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]

Yes, Derek,

that formula makes absolutely sense. The funny thing is that the level with
the - 0.5 was identical with [creb/blosc~]. It should have been half the
level. Strange!

Ingo


 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: Derek Holzer [mailto:de...@umatic.nl]
 Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 19:08
 An: Ingo
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at
 Betreff: Re: AW: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]
 
 Have a look here:
 
 http://en.flossmanuals.net/PureData/DCOffset
 
 My basic formula is
 
 [*~ 2]
 |
 [-~ 1]
 
 Best!
 D.
 
 On 11/23/10 3:18 PM, Ingo wrote:
  Hi Derek,
 
  that's it !!!  I just subtracted 0.5 from the [phasor~] outlet and now
it
  behaves as expected. Thank you!
 
  Now I have to find all the [phasor~] objects in my patches und change it
  there. Using [blosc~] is just too expensive for simply producing some
slight
  dirt modulations.
 
  Ingo
 
 
  -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
  Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag
von
  Derek
  Holzer
  Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. November 2010 14:49
  An: pd-list@iem.at
  Betreff: Re: [PD] Strange behavior between [phasor~] and [creb/blosc~]
 
  Did you try graphing the output of the combined [phasor~] objects? To
  me, it seems likely that the lack of a zero-crossing in the [phasor~]
  waveform would create a large amount of DC offset, and perhaps that is
  what you are hearing. [creb/blosc~], [osc~] and pretty much any other
  audio waveform generator all have mostly equal amounts of positive and
  negative energy in their waveforms. Only [phasor~] is the weird
  exception and wasn't even designed to be used as signal source anyways.
  I'm quite sure it was mainly intended for use in driving [tabread~]
  objects.
 
  D.
 
  On 11/23/10 2:40 PM, Ingo wrote:
 
  Do subpatches with several [phasor~] used as a audiosignals produce a
  different result as intended without summing up in total over 1.
 
  --
  ::: derek holzer ::: http://macumbista.net :::
  ---Oblique Strategy # 113:
  Make a blank valuable by putting it in an exquisite frame
 
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Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

2010-11-23 Thread Lawrence Joseph

Have a look at the metronome here (2nd from the bottom of the page), which 
allows changing speeds:


http://lawrencejoseph.org/1pdpatches.html

I am sure it can be improved, but the basic idea is there,
Lawrence

- Original Message - 
From: Pierre Massat pimas...@gmail.com

To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at
Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2010 3:37 PM
Subject: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR



Dear List,

I was trying to build a simple (very simple) metronome using [metro] to 
see

if i could change the speed without having to reset the metro object (has
this changed in 0.42 by the way?). In order to test it i need an equally
simple ADSR upon an oscillator to hear the bangs.

Now please look at the attached patch because i don't understand why it
won't work. I'm very confused...

Pierre








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Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

2010-11-23 Thread martin.peach

You need to put a bang before the delay, otherwise the [1 10( message sets the 
delay to 1ms.

Martin

 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:37:35 +0100
 From: pimas...@gmail.com
 To: pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

 Dear List,

 I was trying to build a simple (very simple) metronome using [metro] to
 see if i could change the speed without having to reset the metro
 object (has this changed in 0.42 by the way?). In order to test it i
 need an equally simple ADSR upon an oscillator to hear the bangs.

 Now please look at the attached patch because i don't understand why it
 won't work. I'm very confused...

 Pierre

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Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

2010-11-23 Thread Pierre Massat

Oh, I didn't know that. Still, putting a bang between [1 10( and the delay
doesn't make any difference. I'd tried that, and was very confused.

2010/11/23 martin.pe...@sympatico.ca


 You need to put a bang before the delay, otherwise the [1 10( message sets
 the delay to 1ms.

 Martin


 
  Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:37:35 +0100
  From: pimas...@gmail.com
  To: pd-list@iem.at
  Subject: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR
 
  Dear List,
 
  I was trying to build a simple (very simple) metronome using [metro] to
  see if i could change the speed without having to reset the metro
  object (has this changed in 0.42 by the way?). In order to test it i
  need an equally simple ADSR upon an oscillator to hear the bangs.
 
  Now please look at the attached patch because i don't understand why it
  won't work. I'm very confused...
 
  Pierre
 
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Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

2010-11-23 Thread martin.peach

Maybe you need to re-instantiate the delay; it works fine here (Pd version 
0.42.5-extended-rc6 on WinXp), all your examples work.

Martin

 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:59:51 +0100
 From: pimas...@gmail.com
 To: martin.pe...@sympatico.ca
 CC: pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

 Oh, I didn't know that. Still, putting a bang between [1 10( and the
 delay doesn't make any difference. I'd tried that, and was very
 confused.

 2010/11/23 

 You need to put a bang before the delay, otherwise the [1 10( message
 sets the delay to 1ms.

 Martin

  Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:37:35 +0100
  From: pimas...@gmail.com
  To: pd-list@iem.at
  Subject: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

  Dear List,

  I was trying to build a simple (very simple) metronome using [metro] to
  see if i could change the speed without having to reset the metro
  object (has this changed in 0.42 by the way?). In order to test it i
  need an equally simple ADSR upon an oscillator to hear the bangs.

  Now please look at the attached patch because i don't understand why it
  won't work. I'm very confused...

  Pierre

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Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR

2010-11-23 Thread Pierre Massat

You're right, it works fine know.
I'm feeling much better know!
Thanks!

Pierre

2010/11/23 martin.pe...@sympatico.ca


 Maybe you need to re-instantiate the delay; it works fine here (Pd version
 0.42.5-extended-rc6 on WinXp), all your examples work.

 Martin

 
  Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:59:51 +0100
  From: pimas...@gmail.com
  To: martin.pe...@sympatico.ca
  CC: pd-list@iem.at
  Subject: Re: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR
 
  Oh, I didn't know that. Still, putting a bang between [1 10( and the
  delay doesn't make any difference. I'd tried that, and was very
  confused.
 
  2010/11/23 
 
  You need to put a bang before the delay, otherwise the [1 10( message
  sets the delay to 1ms.
 
  Martin
 
 
  
   Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 21:37:35 +0100
   From: pimas...@gmail.com
   To: pd-list@iem.at
   Subject: [PD] Deep thinking ... Problem with ADSR
  
   Dear List,
  
   I was trying to build a simple (very simple) metronome using [metro] to
   see if i could change the speed without having to reset the metro
   object (has this changed in 0.42 by the way?). In order to test it i
   need an equally simple ADSR upon an oscillator to hear the bangs.
  
   Now please look at the attached patch because i don't understand why it
   won't work. I'm very confused...
  
   Pierre
  
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Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian

2010-11-23 Thread Mathieu Bouchard


On Tue, 23 Nov 2010, Patrick Pagano wrote:


removing pdp/pidip is a bad idea


it's also a bad idea to cause the simple things that cause people to want 
to remove pidip.


if the military decides to use pidip for military use, chances it will be 
classified information, and no-one of us will ever know, so, it doesn't 
matter much.


if this sentence is to be kept, it can be moved to any other file than 
license, making sure that it doesn't look like an addendum to the license.


the only people being penalised by this sentence, is the puredata 
community. there a lot more significant places where one can protest 
against war.


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Re: [PD] pd conferences

2010-11-23 Thread Mathieu Bouchard


On Tue, 23 Nov 2010, richard duckworth wrote:

Hi all, are there any pd conferences or mini-conferences planned for 
next year?


I'm trying to organise a mini-conference for the thirtyeighth time now (or 
almost)... they last about 4 hours each. I started in decembre 2003. 
Thanks to everybody who came and to everybody who showed something. It's 
not gonna end anytime soon.


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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)


  Perhaps you'd be interested in my unreleased tkwidgets library, its  
  in SVN.  Basically, I am working on creating a framework to make it  
  much easier to make GUI objects. Part of that framework includes  
  things like resizing things with the mouse.  I have that much  
  working but its buggy still.  Once that gets ironed out, I plan on  
  making Pd versions of all the core Tk widgets, including the Tk  
  canvas.  In tkwdigets there is already a [text] object that works  
  quite nicely, save a few bugs.
 
 I forgot to add, my experience with the iemgui code has told me that  
 they would be very difficult to improve, hence the tkwidgets lib.

Unfortunately, if it is not finished/stable, I am not interested in it
as having to deal with Pd bugs in and of themselves is demanding enough
on my time. On a flip side Scope~ external already has similar
functionality which seems to me quite complete so it may be simply a
matter of implementing that one (obviously it would only apply to iemgui
objects as vanilla objects have no way of knowing their own size).

That said, I did spend most of today implementing Sarlo's feature as
well as fixing buggy Tcl/Tk behavior (namely inability to show check
marks in the edit menu which is so disheartening it is not even funny--I
really think Pd needs to wean itself away from the Tcl/Tk abomination
even if that means losing a good chunk of its externals before it can
thrive).

NB: I left out drop shadows part as it seems quite redundant. I also
changed how the rest of the code behaves/looks to make it visually
cleaner/more consistent.

Apart from that latest update also includes edit menu highlighting (as
0.43 does to bypass Tcl/Tk buggy junk), improved shortucts for some of
the calls, bugfix in the window list menu which for some reason omits
parent window listing, and other minor cosmetic fixes (e.g. highlighting
color changed to orange as I feel it is much easier on my eyes).

If interested, check out the latest snapshot at the usual place:

http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

Cheers!



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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)

2010-11-23 Thread Jonathan Wilkes

--- On Wed, 11/24/10, Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote:

 From: Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu
 Subject: Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based 
 on 0.42.x branch)
 To: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at, 'João Pais' jmmmp...@googlemail.com
 Date: Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 12:10 AM

   Perhaps you'd be interested in my unreleased
 tkwidgets library, its  
   in SVN.  Basically, I am working on creating
 a framework to make it  
   much easier to make GUI objects. Part of that
 framework includes  
   things like resizing things with the mouse. 
 I have that much  
   working but its buggy still.  Once that gets
 ironed out, I plan on  
   making Pd versions of all the core Tk widgets,
 including the Tk  
   canvas.  In tkwdigets there is already a
 [text] object that works  
   quite nicely, save a few bugs.

  I forgot to add, my experience with the iemgui code
 has told me that  
  they would be very difficult to improve, hence the
 tkwidgets lib.

 Unfortunately, if it is not finished/stable, I am not
 interested in it
 as having to deal with Pd bugs in and of themselves is
 demanding enough
 on my time. On a flip side Scope~ external already has
 similar
 functionality which seems to me quite complete so it may be
 simply a
 matter of implementing that one (obviously it would only
 apply to iemgui
 objects as vanilla objects have no way of knowing their own
 size).

Notice that both [cyclone/Scope~] and [flatspace/entry] have a 
bug: a sudden increase in height/width by about 5-10 pixels when you 
initially drag to resize.  This makes it difficult if not 
impossible to make minor size changes (especially since there is no 
Properties dialogue).

-Jonathan

 That said, I did spend most of today implementing Sarlo's
 feature as
 well as fixing buggy Tcl/Tk behavior (namely inability to
 show check
 marks in the edit menu which is so disheartening it is not
 even funny

Wouldn't it be easier just to toggle the text for that menu option 
between Edit mode and Run mode? (That's what they're called in 
the manual.)

 --I
 really think Pd needs to wean itself away from the Tcl/Tk
 abomination
 even if that means losing a good chunk of its externals
 before it can
 thrive).

How would you go about doing that?

 NB: I left out drop shadows part as it seems quite
 redundant. I also
 changed how the rest of the code behaves/looks to make it
 visually
 cleaner/more consistent.

 Apart from that latest update also includes edit menu
 highlighting (as
 0.43 does to bypass Tcl/Tk buggy junk), improved shortucts
 for some of
 the calls, bugfix in the window list menu which for some
 reason omits
 parent window listing, and other minor cosmetic fixes (e.g.
 highlighting
 color changed to orange as I feel it is much easier on my
 eyes).

 If interested, check out the latest snapshot at the usual
 place:

 http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

 Cheers!

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Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian

2010-11-23 Thread ydego...@gmail.com


thank you officer

you'll stay in too,
you made your good job of tracking deviants,
a song for you :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nULKw8s061E

ciao,
sevy

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


PDP has a regular GPL license, so its staying in.

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 3:27 PM, Patrick Pagano wrote:


removing pdp/pidip is a bad idea

On 11/23/2010 11:58 AM, John Harrison wrote:

Yves:

It's your code so you get to choose. From my standpoint as an 
educator, removal of PiDiP from pd-extended is very unfortunate. I 
hope at some point you reconsider your position.


-John

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:46 AM, ydego...@gmail.com 
mailto:ydego...@gmail.com ydego...@gmail.com 
mailto:ydego...@gmail.com wrote:



good!!! i'm free to do what i like now!!!

yeh!

sevy

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Ok, will do. I also have to remove pidip from Pd-extended
based on this license.

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 7:18 AM, ydego...@free.fr
mailto:ydego...@free.fr wrote:

jooo, que espeso ...

i told you 1 times not to package my stuff,
that i'm happy with the packages of goto10...

so [EOC]


ciao,
sevy


Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


Hey Lluis and Yves,

I see that puredyne has packaged pidip, so it should
be pretty easy to get it into Debian. The only
problem is the license. If it was a straight BSD or
GPL license, then it would be fine. The problem is
this line:

NOT FOR MILITARY OR REPRESSIVE USE !!!

That isn't free according to the Debian Free
Software Guidelines.

.hc





As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of
others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve
others by any invention of ours; and this we should
do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin














Programs should be written for people to read, and only
incidentally for machines to execute.
- from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs




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Re: [PD] Pd + HTML on Android

Hi Lorenzo,

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 10:03:34AM +0100, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
 What also interests me about your project (if I understood correctly how  
 it works, because I have no android myself and couldn't play with it) is  
 that the 'dsp' and 'interface' (i.e. html+js) remain somewhat separated.

That's correct. They both run inside the same Java thread, but they are quite 
independent with a small interface for passing data between them. The big down 
side is that on slower phones the WebKit stack can't send messages to Pd with a 
very short latency (seems around 100ms to 300ms) and messages back from Pd will 
confuse it if the come back too quickly. I think with time this will naturally 
get faster as phones get faster.

 A while ago I posted to the list asking about the possibility of having  
 'modern' html connect to pd (via tricks), and it seemed rather 
 impossible.
 Maybe with HTML 5 supporting 'true' sockets this becomes realistic again.

That would be nice. What I have mainly dealt with is sending data from an 
interface to Pd via netreceive and custom servers which support Pd's strange 
dual-socket networking. If I was going to implement the equivalent of 
PdWebKitDroid for the desktop, I would not do that though, I would do it much 
like it is in the Android version, with WebKit as a library and pd-lib by Peter 
Brinkmann. I'd probably use Python as the glue application language and either 
gtk-moz-embed or wxWindows with it's new webkit stuff.

Cheers,

Chris.

---
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[PD] Java Pd file parser

Hi,

Before I go ahead and write it myself, does anyone have code for parsing Pd 
files into sensible Java data structures? Seems like I am always writing this 
same bit of code in different languages - Python, Javascript, and now Java.

Cheers,

Chris.

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Re: [PD] Java Pd file parser



Perhaps it would be a good idea to make the Pd C code into a C lib,  
then make bindings for other languages?


.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:


Hi,

Before I go ahead and write it myself, does anyone have code for  
parsing Pd files into sensible Java data structures? Seems like I am  
always writing this same bit of code in different languages -  
Python, Javascript, and now Java.


Cheers,

Chris.

---
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Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a more  
direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in practice,  
it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith




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Re: [PD] Java Pd file parser

Hi Hans,

I understand and basically agree, but practically speaking the Python one is 
done already and works very nicely 
http://mccormick.cx/projects/PyPd/PdParser.html the Javascript one is web 
based so it doesn't make sense there (cross browser plugins, gah) and is done 
anyway too (WebPd). I guess I could write the one for Java in C but that just 
seems like a roundabout way to get it working and would make my build process 
headachey. What would be good is if Pd itself (and hence lib-pd) provided some 
API to query the data structure of a Patch. I don't realistically see that 
happening any time soon.

So anyone got Java code for parsing Pd patches? If not I will post my results 
here once I have it working.

Chris.

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:53:04PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

 Perhaps it would be a good idea to make the Pd C code into a C lib, then 
 make bindings for other languages?

 .hc

 On Nov 23, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:

 Hi,

 Before I go ahead and write it myself, does anyone have code for  
 parsing Pd files into sensible Java data structures? Seems like I am  
 always writing this same bit of code in different languages - Python, 
 Javascript, and now Java.

 Cheers,

 Chris.

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Re: [PD] Java Pd file parser

Have you seen iemguts? Its a Pd library for inspecting state of
patches. I suppose it could be turned into a C library also, then
wrapped for Java, Python, etc. ;)

.hc

On Nov 24, 2010, at 12:02 AM, Chris McCormick wrote:

Hi Hans,

I understand and basically agree, but practically speaking the
Python one is done already and works very nicely http://mccormick.cx/projects/PyPd/PdParser.html
the Javascript one is web based so it doesn't make sense there
(cross browser plugins, gah) and is done anyway too (WebPd). I guess
I could write the one for Java in C but that just seems like a
roundabout way to get it working and would make my build process
headachey. What would be good is if Pd itself (and hence lib-pd)
provided some API to query the data structure of a Patch. I don't
realistically see that happening any time soon.

So anyone got Java code for parsing Pd patches? If not I will post
my results here once I have it working.

Chris.

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 11:53:04PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner
wrote:

Perhaps it would be a good idea to make the Pd C code into a C lib,
then

make bindings for other languages?

.hc

On Nov 23, 2010, at 11:30 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:

Hi,

Before I go ahead and write it myself, does anyone have code for
parsing Pd files into sensible Java data structures? Seems like I am
always writing this same bit of code in different languages -
Python,

Javascript, and now Java.

Cheers,

Chris.

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Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a
more
direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in
practice, it

can change entire economies. - Amy Smith

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Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick.-
David Zicarelli

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Re: [PD] call for testers for L2Ork iteration of pd-extended (based on 0.42.x branch)

 Notice that both [cyclone/Scope~] and [flatspace/entry] have a
 bug: a sudden increase in height/width by about 5-10 pixels when you
 initially drag to resize.  This makes it difficult if not
 impossible to make minor size changes (especially since there is no
 Properties dialogue).

Good to know. I will look into this when I get there. Currently working on 
accelerating iemgui objects as well as exposing them to sarlo's highlighting 
magic.

 Wouldn't it be easier just to toggle the text for that menu option
 between Edit mode and Run mode? (That's what they're called in
 the manual.)

Sure. There are other options, too, like the one 0.43 and now l2ork version of 
0.42 uses by changing option's background which works visually relatively well 
(albeit at the expense of consistency). This is however not the issue. The 
issue is finding out that after an hour of debugging the problem is not in you 
or your code but the toolkit you are using and in 2010 for a toolkit that has 
been around for more than a decade that is plainly sad.

 How would you go about doing that?

A: Ugly path: Isolate pd-gui hooks and port the entire thing to Qt.

B: Better (albeit more time-consuming) path: clean-up code first so that all 
objects can utilize the same gobj_whatever calls and then do the A: (which at 
that point won't be nearly as ugly or difficult to maintain).

FWIW, my first ever GUI app was RTMix I did back in 2001 and it was (and 
remains) the ugliest hack ever (basically I tried to learn how to program doing 
that app). Yet, the fact remains even in 2001 qt was way better than what Tk is 
today. Another advantage is avoiding socket bottlenecks as the entire thing 
could be done simply in C. License-wise it should be fine and 
cross-platform-wise miles ahead of Tcl/Tk. Heck, you could even throw in Qt for 
mobile devices for good measure since that is apparently hot item these days.

That said, I need some more time working with Pd code before I can undertake 
this. Perhaps more importantly, I just need a generous, uninterrupted chunk of 
time to do this.

Best wishes,

Ico 


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Re: [PD] Simple Subtractive Synth filter envelope

Hi Samuel,

as an alternative to [phasor~] you could try either [creb/blosc~ saw] or the
one Roman Haefeli just suggested:

If you're after a cheap band-limited saw generator, check this out:
https://github.com/reduzent/pd-bloscabs

It's pure vanilla and cpu-wise not much more expensive than [tabosc4~].

Ingo


Von: samuel rowe [mailto:samueldavidr...@hotmail.co.uk] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. November 2010 00:39
An: i...@miamiwave.com
Betreff: RE: AW: [PD] Simple Subtractive Synth filter envelope

Hi Ingo

Thanks for the help, I've been a bit busy today, but I will try your idea
tomorrow and let you know how I get along with it
I was wondering if there was a different sawtooth to phasor, it does sound
terribly artificial

Thank you

Samuel

 From: i...@miamiwave.com
 To: jbtur...@hotmail.com; pimas...@gmail.com;
samueldavidr...@hotmail.co.uk
 CC: pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: AW: [PD] Simple Subtractive Synth filter envelope
 Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 07:32:48 +0100
 
 Here's what I would do based on your example. Of course there are many
 options of using envelope objects.
 I would also suggest to use something else than [phasor~] because of
 aliasing problems.
 
 Ingo
 
 
 
 Von: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] Im Auftrag von
 Andrew Faraday
 Gesendet: Montag, 22. November 2010 23:36
 An: pimas...@gmail.com; samueldavidr...@hotmail.co.uk
 Cc: pd-list@iem.at
 Betreff: Re: [PD] Simple Subtractive Synth filter envelope
 
 hello samuel
 
 [vcf~] is probably the way to go.
 
 you can also cheat a little using [envgen] which is a graphic envelope
 generator, currently set between 0 and 1. The documentation isn't perfect,
 but these are the messages you need to know.
 
 [0 50 1 50 ( --- slightly different syntax from [line] or [line~], it
goes,
 target (first one's instant), gap, target, gap etc.
 
 [duration 5000(  --- changes the duration of your envelope without
changing
 the shape.
 
 a bang outputs the messages for [line] or [line~] or [vline~].
 
 you can also draw your envelope manually.
 
 
 This is useful if you don't want to spend much time on sorting out your
 envelope generator. Oh, and the 0 to 1 problem. In audio you'll have to do
 some arithmetic, but if you use a signal line you can use [range 0 1 X X]
 replacing the x's with the upper and lower limit you want for your
filters. 
 
 Hope this helps
 
 Andrew
 
 P.S. to convert the audio 0 - 1 to a range you want, use 
 
 [line~]
 |
 [*~ (the size of your range)]
 |
 [+~ (the lower limit of your range)]
 
 
 
 
 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 23:10:47 +0100
 From: pimas...@gmail.com
 To: samueldavidr...@hotmail.co.uk
 CC: pd-list@iem.at
 Subject: Re: [PD] Simple Subtractive Synth filter envelope
 
 Would this do? 
 
 You should be aware that there is a difference between message and
audio
 inlets (different color). The sound may be very diffrent depending on the
 type of inlet an audio object has if you want to change a parameter
 dynamically. This is particularly relevant for filters. Check the
difference
 between [bp~] and [vcf~]. 
 
 Pierre
 2010/11/22 samuel rowe samueldavidr...@hotmail.co.uk
 Hi
 
 I'm relatively new to PD, but I've been working with hardware synthesizers
 for years now, and I've used SynC to build synths on my computer, and I'm
 doing an Audio Technology degree, so I'm not clueless on the subject. 
 However, I'm trying to build a simple subtractive synth where I press a
 PutBang which triggers an envelope generator with ADSR to alter the filter
 cutoff, and I just can't work out how to do it. No-one at my university
 program in pd or max, so I have had to search the internet for help. I've
 read these two pages
 
 http://obiwannabe.co.uk/html/music/6SS/six-simple-synthesisers.html
 http://en.flossmanuals.net/PureData/SimpleSynth
 
 and whilst the vline object on the flossmanuals site is fine when altering
 the envelope of an overtone in an additive synth, the output will not feed
 into the argument for a filter cutoff value. I can't even get the attack
 decay generator on the first site to work, let alone figure out how to
 alter it's seemingly inefficient design to allow sustain and release.
 
 I know this is quite trivial compared to some of the things that get
posted
 in the mailing list, I would really appreciate it if anyone could help me,
 or point me in the right direction. I've spent too many nights scouring
the
 internet and trying to work it out for myself, but I've simply hit a brick
 wall.
 
 Thank you in advance
 
 Samuel
 
 p.s. this is the text for the file i have been working on, it's a little
bit
 messy and doesn't seem to work properly. BE CAREFUL, IT MAKES A THUMP WHEN
 OPENED, TURN OFF COMPUTE AUDIO
 
 #N canvas 366 35 610 629 10;
 #X obj 106 485 dac~;
 #X obj 94 115 phasor~;
 #X floatatom 104 77 5 0 0 0 - - -;
 #X obj 231 154 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty

Re: [PD] pd-pidip into Debian

i want to like this reply, but i can't find the facebook 'like' button

On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 05:46:22PM +0100, ydego...@gmail.com wrote:

 good!!! i'm free to do what i like now!!!

 yeh!

 sevy

 Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

 Ok, will do. I also have to remove pidip from Pd-extended based on  
 this license.

 .hc

 On Nov 23, 2010, at 7:18 AM, ydego...@free.fr wrote:

 jooo, que espeso ...

 i told you 1 times not to package my stuff,
 that i'm happy with the packages of goto10...

 so [EOC]


 ciao,
 sevy


 Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

 Hey Lluis and Yves,

 I see that puredyne has packaged pidip, so it should be pretty easy 
 to get it into Debian. The only problem is the license. If it was a 
 straight BSD or GPL license, then it would be fine. The problem is  
 this line:

 NOT FOR MILITARY OR REPRESSIVE USE !!!

 That isn't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.

 .hc

 
 
  
 


 As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should 
 be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; 
 and this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin










 
  
 


 Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally  
 for machines to execute.
 - from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs




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Re: [PD] Java Pd file parser