Re: K10D and Wireless P-TTL
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, Patrick Genovese wrote: Say for example you wanted to do contrast control flash wirelessly.. Would it be possible to used the slave unit the main light and the controller for fill in ? or vice versa. Yes, and you can dial in the Master:Slave ratio in the flash. You can select from 1:1, 2:3, 1:2 and 1:3 ratio of the M:S flash output. Plus you can also dial in additional flash exposure compensation in individual flash to give you more control. -- --Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence -- --Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor-- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Pentax Interview III
On Tue, 12 Dec 2006, K.Takeshita wrote: Here is the translation. Thanks, Ken, for your effort. Since there have been many interviews like this lately and K10D's have been in hands of many folks already, this may no longer be too interesting. On the contrary, I found it very interesting, particularly the discussion on the development in using a new CCD. -- --Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vex.net/~lawrence -- --Tungsten T3 Enhanced DIA KeyboardNokia Ringtone Convertor-- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
K10d panning with SR on?.
has anyone tried panning with SR turned on with K100D or K10D? The results would be interesting to see. James (Still waiting for my K10D) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re[2]: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
Hello Patrice, Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 12:23:41 AM, you wrote: PLG I've imagined a lengthy, but very accurate metaphor for this: PLG Imagine you have a field of land. It is your color space. It contains PLG flowers and trees (each of them is a different color). You want to PLG measure the positions of these flowers and trees in this field (each PLG position corresponds to a given color). You can do so by dividing the PLG field in equal portions, marked by poles. You can't position a tree in PLG the field in a better precision than the distance between two poles. The PLG problem is that you only have a limited number of poles. PLG Now you are given the choice between a smaller field (sRGB color space) PLG and a larger field (ProPhoto). The smaller field is contained in the PLG larger one, so there are trees that are in the larger field, but not in PLG the smaller field (these are very saturated colors.) You want the larger PLG field to get an image correctly measured if important parts of this PLG image (a lot of the trees) are only in the larger field. PLG But this comes at a price. As you still have the same amount of poles PLG whichever field you choose (say 256x256), if the larger field is chosen, PLG more land needs to be covered, then the poles will be planted wider PLG apart from each other. You can measure more land, but with less precision. PLG If you chose to map the larger field, but all your trees are in the PLG smaller anyway, all you get, regarding YOUR trees, is a coarser precision. Thanks Patrice, that was a very good metaphor. PLG Therefore, for an image with important detail in saturated colors PLG (flowers?), consider working with a wide color space. If you're pretty PLG sure your image only contains colors with lower saturation (portrait?), PLG prefer a narrower color space and you'll have a better rendition of most PLG of your image. PLG Or, use not 256 poles in each direction, but 65536 (16 bit instead of 8) PLG throughout your workflow, and use wide color space until the very last PLG point. So there is really no silver bullet, and I should consider choosing a color space based on what kind of image I'm working with, and what the final output will be, and working with ProPhotoRGB in 16 bit is just a safe bet. Then the final step will be to convert to sRGB before saving for web. Can there be a loss of image detail/color when I perform such a conversion? Let's say I have an image which fits perfectly into sRGB. A.) - I use ACR to open the image in Photoshop using ProphotoRGB. - Apply levels, curves, sharpening etc. - Convert to sRGB then save for web. B.) - I use ACR to ipen the image in Photoshop using sRGB. - Apply levels, curves, sharpening etc. - No need to convert, this is already sRGB so just save for web. Assuming that in both cases I work in 16 bits/channel mode will there be any differences between A.) and B.)? With other words, can colorspace conversions lead to a loss of information? It would seem that in B.) there is no color space conversion, it's sRGB all the way, but there is a catch: the article says that ProPhotoRGB is Camera Raw's native colour space. So if I get this right there will be a conversion in both cases. PLG Just my 2 cents (a bit long, but these are Euro cents). Thank you Patrice, it is well worth it:) -- Attila -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
Hello Rob, Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 1:03:12 AM, you wrote: DIS Commercial print services generally require sRGB souce however the DIS occasional one will provide custom profiles, in most cases sRGB will DIS be adequte. But often printer profiles for newer colour ink-jet DIS printers are wider than sRGB or Adobe RGB so choosing either of these DIS colourspaces as your source or workspace or finally converting to DIS either during save may reduce the potential quality of your prints. So the best would be to create a color profile of my printer (I don't have a printer yet) with PrintFIX or something similar and convert to that profile just before printing. This way I could be sure that I use the printer at it's best possible quality. -- Attila -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
On 12/14/06, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 13/12/06, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml Interesting, thanks for posting. K1D just gone from 99% myth to about 75% myth for me. Let's see what a couple of years brings. Fresh pepper with your hat sir? :-) Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: About our Hungarian friend [Was Re: my first shots with the Pentax K10D]
Kostas, thank you for clearing this up. Godfrey, no offense taken. -- Attila -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: K10D and Ring flash
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, Tom C wrote: At least Sigma updates their flash. With Pentax you need a whole new unit. Och aye! Sigma updates their TTL flashes to become P-TTL? Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash
On Wed, 13 Dec 2006, William Robb wrote: It's more stuff being left off that limits support for older equipment, in this case, an analogue flash control. Not sure what you are saying here, William. The AF-500FTZ is digitally controlled, isn't it? It's the rear-facing sensor for TTL that is omitted, because it did not work well with the CCDs. Am I wrong? Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
Indeed, makes me want that camera. The 1600 iso city sample shows some banding in the blue channel. (hold the mouse over it). Is that the stripes at high iso some are talking about? greetings Markus -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 2:49 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
On 12/14/06, Markus Maurer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Indeed, makes me want that camera. The 1600 iso city sample shows some banding in the blue channel. (hold the mouse over it). Is that the stripes at high iso some are talking about? greetings Yes. Dave Mark Roberts Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
JCO, maybe you were referring to neg film. You wrote only film in general, so I couldn't know, could I? :-) Your arguments has a flip side that goes: If you don't need negatives, there's no point in shooting negative film either. Unless you want a certain look that is not available in slide film IMHO. Without any further substantiation, those claims seem quite futile to someone coming from the-other-kind-of-film. But that's not the point. You ask about dynamic range in digital versus films. Back in 2002 (seems like ages ago, doesn't it...) people on this list maintained that slide film had, on average, about five stops latitude between highlights and deepest shadows. Agfa slide films were reputed to have about half or one stop more, resulting in more details in the highlights. Colour negative film was much debated, and dynamic range varied more among brands and types than did slide film. IIRC, an average figure was about eight stops of latitude. B/W negative film was towering above everything with about 10 stops, depending on brands and types, and very much on development technique and chemicals. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. To your question about producing slides from digital, the answer is yes. I believe it is possible to produce colour negatives from digital as well. A negative film would contain the dynamic range of a raw file, while a slide film would not. Jostein JCO wrote: I was reffering to color or BW neg film. Can you get slides from digital files and are they any wider dynamic range than shooting slide film in the first place? If you dont really need slides, then there isnt much point in shooting slide film unless you really want a certain look not available in neg films IMHO... jco Rhetorics aside, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look I take it you never shot slide film, JCO. I did, and the dynamic range of the *istD was a welcome increase. Jostein On 12/13/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may be able to undo the knee on the film captures but its going to be impossible to undo the clipping on the digital capture when the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the digital system's (sensor) recording capability. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of graywolf Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:21 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look Luckily we can adjust that in Photoshop. It does help some. J. C. O'Connell wrote: But the look is similar. I forgot to post that in either of these cases the film grain is NOT an issue. Its more the tonal range captured and the look of the extreme highlights. Film captures more but the curves are not straight, there is a knee on the hightlights. Whereas digital can't capture as much range but there isnt a knee, its straight right up to the point of clipping... jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: The Film Look I've had the same experience. Stills, by their nature, may lend themselves to more scrutiny. Jack --- J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My interpretation of the film look is like watching a high quality movie ( 70mm print ) vs. a high defintion live video broadcast ( more like the digital look ). jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ __ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
On 14/12/06, jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: has anyone tried panning with SR turned on with K100D or K10D? The results would be interesting to see. I haven't tried it but this is what Pentax have to say about it in their SR description literature: Does the SR system work during pan shots of moving subjects? Yes, it does work, but switching the SR function off is recommended. In shooting conditions where there may be camera shake more than by hand, the SR system may not appropriately compensate for the shaking. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
Does the SR system work during pan shots of moving subjects? Yes, it does work, but switching the SR function off is recommended. In shooting conditions where there may be camera shake more than by hand, the SR system may not appropriately compensate for the shaking. Just as I thought, you'd need some control over the direction in the SR i.e. vertical movement only. I'd be afraid of damaging something if I left it on while panning. John The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received an email in error please notify Carmel College on [EMAIL PROTECTED] then delete all copies of it from your systems. Although Carmel College scans incoming and outgoing emails and email attachments for viruses we cannot guarantee a communication to be free of all viruses nor accept any responsibility for viruses. Although Carmel College monitors incoming and outgoing emails for inappropriate content, the college cannot be held responsible for the views or expressions of the author. The views expressed may not necessarily be those of Carmel College and Carmel College cannot be held responsible for any loss or injury resulting from the contents of a message. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: BH's weird ordering blackouts
On Dec 13, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Norm Baugher wrote: I refer to the store as Temple BH... Who knows what B H stands for? Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
On 14/12/06, Boros Attila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the best would be to create a color profile of my printer (I don't have a printer yet) with PrintFIX or something similar and convert to that profile just before printing. This way I could be sure that I use the printer at it's best possible quality. If you do go the route of getting your printer profiled or buying a pre-made ICC printer/paper profile then you can print out of Photoshop or any other colour management aware application and print from your working colourspace without needing to convert. The profile can be specified along with the rendering intent in the Print with Preview menu in PS to convert automatically before the data is spooled to the printer. Check the sub-article on the following page A Primer on Rendering Intents http://www.outbackphoto.com/color_management/cm_06/essay.html This article is also a great place to learn about the virtues and pitfalls of working with the ProPhoto RGB CS. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
Excellent information. Thanks for all your hard work. I've been tempted to try Lightroom when I have time. But I'm still up to my elbows in wedding pictures. Paul On Dec 14, 2006, at 1:21 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: I've been engaged in a couple of discussions on the DPReview.com forum and privately with a couple of friends regards RAW processing for K10D files. My RAW conversion workflow for the past year and more has been based entirely around Photoshop CS2+Bridge+Camera Raw. Some contend that Silkypix does a better job with the K10D captures on detailing and noise ... it is compatible with the K10 PEF files. RAW Developer is too, and many seem to find it quite a good RAW converter. And there's Lightroom, which I've been casually working with/learning for a while now. Lightroom and Camera Raw can only process the K10D DNG files ... but have no defaults set up for the K10D yet, and there is contention that they do not do as good a job on noise and detailing. So I decided to do some direct experimentation. The light this afternoon was dark and flat. I went out and made some test exposures with camera and tripod, specifically targeting subjects that would exercise the RAW conversion routines ability to work with high detail, noise, and difficult color balance. I made both PEF and DNG exposures of each scene, at ISO 100, 400 and 800. I downloaded and installed the latest Silkypix and RAW Developer applications (evaluation copies) for Mac OS X. My testing would end up with a print to evaluate. I am not particularly concerned with how 1:1 pixel rendering on the computer screen looks, what's important to me is how an A3 print looks out of the R2400. So I won't be showing the Photoshop files that were produced ... you'll have to forgive me for this, but I'm testing for my work which is producing prints. Web display quality is secondary, and since I only ever post down-sampled, smallish renderings to the web, it isn't difficult to take a just acceptable print file and produce a perfectly good web rendering with respect to noise and detailing. Silkypix: I spent two hours trying to work an image with Silkypix and gave up. To me, the control interface and logic is completely impenetrable. I read all the documentation, tried to give it the maximum benefit of the doubt, and nothing I did looked even presentable. PEF default color balances were awful, way way way off base, and I could not find a way to correct them to get in the ballpark. DNG default color balances did a lot better but were still off. The best I could do with it produced an oddly colored, noisy looking, poor rendering. Not even worth producing a print to compare against. RAW Developer: I then turned to RAW Developer. Read the documentation, took the very same DNG file and started adjusting. I'm not entirely comfortable with the curves style primary adjustment adjustment mechanism but it got a decent rendering done for me. Took about 20 minutes. Noise and detailing are good (this particular image is an ISO 800 shot of leaf and grass). I intentionally turned off all noise reduction and sharpening, made a PSD file. Camera RAW: Next I went to ACR. I know ACR very very well. It took me five minutes to produce a rendering from the DNG file that I liked and output to a .PSD file, again, sans all sharpening, noise removal, etc. Used nothing but my standard techniques ... all on the basic adjustment panel. Everything came into where I wanted it to be in moments. I am not sure why some folks seem to have so much trouble with it. Lightroom: Then I took the file to Lightroom beta 4.1. I have spent some time working with Lightroom so I knew somewhat more about the controls than with RAW developer and Silkypix. To my amazement, I was able to dial in the rendering I wanted, even better than ACR, in about two minutes. I didn't expect that. Again, I turned off noise reduction and sharpening as best I could and output a .PSD file. Next I opened all three renderings in Photoshop CS2 and printed them to an A3 size. The renderings are slightly different ... the ACR version is the most neutral/flat, the RAW Developer version is a little richer, the Lightroom rendering is deep and rich. I could tune all of them to be as close as possible in Photoshop but that wasn't the point of this exercise: I want to see what I can achieve with the RAW converters. Photoshop is just a printing vehicle in this test. Comparing the three prints in detailing and noise using a magnifying glass, the Lightroom produced rendering is the best. It is slightly smoother and slightly less detailed than the other two, but it looks the best. The ACR and RAW Developer prints show more roughness from noise and slightly more detail, about on par in that respect. I know I could do more with the noise and detailing using techniques in Photoshop, but again that wasn't the point. This convinces me that I'm going to
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
On 14/12/06, John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just as I thought, you'd need some control over the direction in the SR i.e. vertical movement only. I'd be afraid of damaging something if I left it on while panning. I'm pretty sure it would be a band limited system which would be designed to provide little or no counter reaction to a near constant linear velocity. But even if it did there are always the bump-stops :-) -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Re[2]: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
On 14/12/06, Boros Attila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is really no silver bullet, and I should consider choosing a color space based on what kind of image I'm working with, and what the final output will be, and working with ProPhotoRGB in 16 bit is just a safe bet. Then the final step will be to convert to sRGB before saving for web. Can there be a loss of image detail/color when I perform such a conversion? This is what I've chosen to do (and so it seems a lot of other colour management aware photographers), if you start with too much you can always scale down but you can never get data back that's lost. The way the detail is transformed depends on the rendering intent applied during the CS conversion process, see my previous reply for a good reference. Let's say I have an image which fits perfectly into sRGB. A.) - I use ACR to open the image in Photoshop using ProphotoRGB. - Apply levels, curves, sharpening etc. - Convert to sRGB then save for web. B.) - I use ACR to ipen the image in Photoshop using sRGB. - Apply levels, curves, sharpening etc. - No need to convert, this is already sRGB so just save for web. Assuming that in both cases I work in 16 bits/channel mode will there be any differences between A.) and B.)? With other words, can colorspace conversions lead to a loss of information? It would seem that in B.) there is no color space conversion, it's sRGB all the way, but there is a catch: the article says that ProPhotoRGB is Camera Raw's native colour space. So if I get this right there will be a conversion in both cases. ACR offers a choice of several colourspaces the widest of which is ProPhoto RGB and if the device profiles that I've seen for most of the current DSLRs are at all accurate even that doesn't quite accommodate all the colour gamut that these cameras are capable of recording. Colourspace conversion can alter data detrimentally, you have to be aware of the limitations of each colourspace and also how the rendering intent that's chosen will attempt to clip or compress the data that lies outside the new gamut plus there are other factors such as black point compensation. The bottom line is pretty simple though, if you can afford the file space to save 16 bit files and if your machine doesn't grind to a halt when editing 16 bit files you may as well convert and edit in the widest colourspace available. Then you can always convert to sRGB or any other smaller gamut CS for web or print, also reduce the bit depth after CS conversion not before. The following article is probably the best of read on colour managed workflows: COLOUR MANAGEMENT WORKSHOP NOTES 2005 Copyright Les Walkling 2005 Version 2005:6 http://media-arts.rmit.edu.au/Les_Walkling/Colour_Management_Notes.pdf#search=%22Epson%207600%22 -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: About our Hungarian friend [Was Re: my first shots with the Pentax K10D]
Hello, Attila. What do you think about the camera? It was one of the 10 K10D's which reached Romania? I was able to play with one, just a little. Except for a small ergonomic glitch (I think the body is too thick for my hand, but it's nothing too serious) I liked it very much. And the SR seems to work. Maybe those banding problems will help me resist the enablement for a while. Or maybe I'll buy a K10D as soon as the next batch is here. On 12/14/06, Boros Attila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kostas, thank you for clearing this up. Godfrey, no offense taken. -- Attila -- Best regards, Alex Sarbu -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
I'm pretty sure it would be a band limited system which would be designed to provide little or no counter reaction to a near constant linear velocity. But even if it did there are always the bump-stops :-) Probably, it's the hard against the stop that would worry me. I would imagine there would be something built-in to prevent damage, I don't always think about settings when panning a shot when the opportunity presents itself. John The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received an email in error please notify Carmel College on [EMAIL PROTECTED] then delete all copies of it from your systems. Although Carmel College scans incoming and outgoing emails and email attachments for viruses we cannot guarantee a communication to be free of all viruses nor accept any responsibility for viruses. Although Carmel College monitors incoming and outgoing emails for inappropriate content, the college cannot be held responsible for the views or expressions of the author. The views expressed may not necessarily be those of Carmel College and Carmel College cannot be held responsible for any loss or injury resulting from the contents of a message. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
On 14/12/06, John Whittingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Probably, it's the hard against the stop that would worry me. I would imagine there would be something built-in to prevent damage, I don't always think about settings when panning a shot when the opportunity presents itself. I wouldn't be too concerned as that's precisely how the DR system works. The floating sensor plate does a quick slam dunk into a hard stop, feels kind of weird if you have it enabled on camera power up :-) -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
Thats pretty much what the manual for the Nikon lens say to do, Rob Dave Quoting Digital Image Studio [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 14/12/06, jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: has anyone tried panning with SR turned on with K100D or K10D? The results would be interesting to see. I haven't tried it but this is what Pentax have to say about it in their SR description literature: Does the SR system work during pan shots of moving subjects? Yes, it does work, but switching the SR function off is recommended. In shooting conditions where there may be camera shake more than by hand, the SR system may not appropriately compensate for the shaking. -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Equine Photography in York Region -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
Hello Rob, Thursday, December 14, 2006, 1:32:42 PM, you wrote: DIS On 14/12/06, Boros Attila [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So there is really no silver bullet, and I should consider choosing a color space based on what kind of image I'm working with, and what the final output will be, and working with ProPhotoRGB in 16 bit is just a safe bet. Then the final step will be to convert to sRGB before saving for web. Can there be a loss of image detail/color when I perform such a conversion? DIS This is what I've chosen to do (and so it seems a lot of other colour DIS management aware photographers), if you start with too much you can DIS always scale down but you can never get data back that's lost. The way DIS the detail is transformed depends on the rendering intent applied DIS during the CS conversion process, see my previous reply for a good DIS reference. snip DIS The following article is probably the best of read on colour managed workflows: DIS COLOUR MANAGEMENT WORKSHOP NOTES DIS 2005 DIS Copyright Les Walkling 2005 DIS Version 2005:6 DIS http://media-arts.rmit.edu.au/Les_Walkling/Colour_Management_Notes.pdf#search=%22Epson%207600%22 Thank you for both articles, it was a good read. -- Attila -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: About our Hungarian friend [Was Re: my first shots with the Pentax K10D]
Hello Alex, Thursday, December 14, 2006, 2:03:18 PM, you wrote: ACS What do you think about the camera? I'm very pleased with it. This being my first DSLR ever, I have nothing to compare against. Size is just right, and it has a nice balance with the DA 16-45. ACS It was one of the 10 K10D's which reached Romania? No, I have ordered it from BH, and payed 19% VAT. ACS I was able to play with one, just a little. Except for a small ACS ergonomic glitch (I think the body is too thick for my hand, but it's ACS nothing too serious) I liked it very much. And the SR seems to work. ACS Maybe those banding problems will help me resist the enablement for ACS a while. Or maybe I'll buy a K10D as soon as the next batch is here. Can not speak about banding problems as yet. I'm planning to take some night shots, so I will find it out soon enough. -- Attila -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: snip Thanks for the fascinating report. I'm pretty interested in Lightroom. I haven't played with any of the beta versions - due to my packed schedule I've been reluctant to spend any time with beta software - but I think I'll get the official version when it becomes available. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash
- Original Message - From: Kostas Kavoussanakis Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash Not sure what you are saying here, William. The AF-500FTZ is digitally controlled, isn't it? It's the rear-facing sensor for TTL that is omitted, because it did not work well with the CCDs. Am I wrong? Sorry, I didn't realize the 500 was a digital flash. My experience with TTL flash control on the istD was very dissapointing. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
LCD Monitor Cover
Anyone using an LCD monitor cover that they'd recommend. I see skins are available, but my perception is that they might protect against minor scratches and nose oil, but not much else. BH shows a number of what might be hard covers (Nikon). I'm wondering how they attach. Any experience? Jack Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
Godfrey, Thanks for the test but I think your process is a little flawed when it came to Silkypix. You had a pre-disposition towards SP and your final conclusion remained the same. I do not expect you to take a week to learn the program to make a valid comparison. However, you could pass these RAW files to someone who actually knows how to use the program and have them ship back to you PSD files or another format that you can print to make a correct comparison. I am not a SP user. I have an eval. copy and I have tried it for about 30 mins before it was too late and I needed to go to bed. You have a point when you say the interface is less than intuitive. However, this does not really show whether SP can produce a better conversion or not. As someone who has not settled in on a processing scheme I would like to know if it is worth the effort to try to learn SP, or any other tool that might make my images better. I have been using Raw Shooter Essential but we all know that product is dead with the Adobe acquisition. I would put some effort into SP if there was some tangible reason to do so. Right now we only have conflicting opinions and no true comparisons. Please do not take this an attack to your character or scientific methods. Tests and comparisons like this make the group valuable. Again, thanks for the report. Perry. On 12/14/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been engaged in a couple of discussions on the DPReview.com forum and privately with a couple of friends regards RAW processing for K10D files. My RAW conversion workflow for the past year and more has been based entirely around Photoshop CS2+Bridge+Camera Raw. Some contend that Silkypix does a better job with the K10D captures on detailing and noise ... it is compatible with the K10 PEF files. RAW Developer is too, and many seem to find it quite a good RAW converter. And there's Lightroom, which I've been casually working with/learning for a while now. Lightroom and Camera Raw can only process the K10D DNG files ... but have no defaults set up for the K10D yet, and there is contention that they do not do as good a job on noise and detailing. So I decided to do some direct experimentation. The light this afternoon was dark and flat. I went out and made some test exposures with camera and tripod, specifically targeting subjects that would exercise the RAW conversion routines ability to work with high detail, noise, and difficult color balance. I made both PEF and DNG exposures of each scene, at ISO 100, 400 and 800. I downloaded and installed the latest Silkypix and RAW Developer applications (evaluation copies) for Mac OS X. My testing would end up with a print to evaluate. I am not particularly concerned with how 1:1 pixel rendering on the computer screen looks, what's important to me is how an A3 print looks out of the R2400. So I won't be showing the Photoshop files that were produced ... you'll have to forgive me for this, but I'm testing for my work which is producing prints. Web display quality is secondary, and since I only ever post down-sampled, smallish renderings to the web, it isn't difficult to take a just acceptable print file and produce a perfectly good web rendering with respect to noise and detailing. Silkypix: I spent two hours trying to work an image with Silkypix and gave up. To me, the control interface and logic is completely impenetrable. I read all the documentation, tried to give it the maximum benefit of the doubt, and nothing I did looked even presentable. PEF default color balances were awful, way way way off base, and I could not find a way to correct them to get in the ballpark. DNG default color balances did a lot better but were still off. The best I could do with it produced an oddly colored, noisy looking, poor rendering. Not even worth producing a print to compare against. RAW Developer: I then turned to RAW Developer. Read the documentation, took the very same DNG file and started adjusting. I'm not entirely comfortable with the curves style primary adjustment adjustment mechanism but it got a decent rendering done for me. Took about 20 minutes. Noise and detailing are good (this particular image is an ISO 800 shot of leaf and grass). I intentionally turned off all noise reduction and sharpening, made a PSD file. Camera RAW: Next I went to ACR. I know ACR very very well. It took me five minutes to produce a rendering from the DNG file that I liked and output to a .PSD file, again, sans all sharpening, noise removal, etc. Used nothing but my standard techniques ... all on the basic adjustment panel. Everything came into where I wanted it to be in moments. I am not sure why some folks seem to have so much trouble with it. Lightroom: Then I took the file to Lightroom beta 4.1. I have spent some time working with Lightroom so I knew somewhat more about the controls than with RAW developer and Silkypix. To my
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
Digital Image Studio wrote: On 14/12/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml It's an interesting report, the bottom line of which MR hopes that some of Pentax's technical innovations will spur on Canon et al to build better cameras ;-) Indeed: As a Canon user I can only wish that the folks at Canon's marketing and engineering department have a close look at some of the more innovative features offered by Pentax in this new model. With DNG, post exposure JPG processing, and auto-ISO with limit setting, Pentax now offers one of the most innovative feature sets to be found on any DSLR. It looks like the big boys are going to have to start playing catch-up. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
At 10:19 PM 14/12/2006, Mark Roberts wrote: Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: snip Thanks for the fascinating report. I'm pretty interested in Lightroom. I haven't played with any of the beta versions - due to my packed schedule I've been reluctant to spend any time with beta software - but I think I'll get the official version when it becomes available. I hope the final version performs better than the beta because Lightroom is a resource hog. I am not impressed at all. My 3GHz dual core, 1GB RAM 2x 300GB SATA hard drives on a RAID 0 array PC has a conniption fit just viewing the Library. Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Dinged by DNG in the K10D?
I seem to recall that some people were having trouble opening the DNG files created by the K10D. Yesterday I ran off a few DNG frames and was expecting some problems opening them in Photoshop CS which uses ACR 2.4. Surprise! Surprise! ACR and CS opened the files without a hitch. My first reaction was that the color rendering was quite good, and, frankly, on some of the files I'd probably not even make adjustments to the WB or color. SR works pretty well based on the few shots I took. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, the camera owner had the K10D set on the box stock settings and I didn't have the time to examine what they were or make any changes. For example, I don't know how the WB was set, but the light was mixed with a little tungsten and some daylight, and the camera handled the situation quite well IMO. It might have been nice to see if the results could have been better with some in-camera adjustments. I say fortunately because it was nice to see how the camera behaved straight out of the box and used as a PS, so to speak. More and more the K10D is looking better and better. Shel -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Another Panorama PESO...
Hello Cory, Very nice, one of the best panos I've seen. I imagine it was a huge work, but it's well worth it. -- Attila Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 6:19:40 PM, you wrote: CP Finally getting around to finishing up the mountain/glacier CP panorama I started working on in July. CP http://www.ee.vt.edu/~mythtv/PESO/4/ CP Comments welcome. CP -Cory CP -- CP * CP * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA CP * Electrical Engineering CP * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University CP * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Another Panorama PESO...
Hello Cory, Very nice, one of the best panos I've seen. I imagine it was a huge work, but it's well worth it. -- Attila It wasn't *too* much work. Much of it was automated. Software used was all open-source though, which I find kinda cool. - dcraw to make 16-bit color-managed TIFF's - Autopano-sift for most of the control point generation - Hugin to fine-tune the control points and generate the pano control file - Panotools (through Hugin) to morph individual frames. - Enblend to blend the individuals into one big one. - Cinepaint/gimp to crop and rubber-stamp out dust spots and few chunks of missing sky and add a bit of USM. Thanks, -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The Film Look
No, low contrast (normal) color negative film has much more dynamic range capture than slide film so its better than slide film for average contrasty scenes even if you dont need a negative ( used just for scanning ). I stopped using slide film about 10 years ago and went nearly all color neg film for scanning about 5 years ago. Color neg film is also much easier to develop yourself and get developed cheap and fast at labs. So I do NOT agree that the only reason to shoot color neg film is if you need a neg. The way I see it today with scanning it that unless you actually want to project the image in a projector, its ususally better to go with neg films for the other reasons stated too, not just for a look not available in slide films. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look JCO, maybe you were referring to neg film. You wrote only film in general, so I couldn't know, could I? :-) Your arguments has a flip side that goes: If you don't need negatives, there's no point in shooting negative film either. Unless you want a certain look that is not available in slide film IMHO. Without any further substantiation, those claims seem quite futile to someone coming from the-other-kind-of-film. But that's not the point. You ask about dynamic range in digital versus films. Back in 2002 (seems like ages ago, doesn't it...) people on this list maintained that slide film had, on average, about five stops latitude between highlights and deepest shadows. Agfa slide films were reputed to have about half or one stop more, resulting in more details in the highlights. Colour negative film was much debated, and dynamic range varied more among brands and types than did slide film. IIRC, an average figure was about eight stops of latitude. B/W negative film was towering above everything with about 10 stops, depending on brands and types, and very much on development technique and chemicals. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. To your question about producing slides from digital, the answer is yes. I believe it is possible to produce colour negatives from digital as well. A negative film would contain the dynamic range of a raw file, while a slide film would not. Jostein JCO wrote: I was reffering to color or BW neg film. Can you get slides from digital files and are they any wider dynamic range than shooting slide film in the first place? If you dont really need slides, then there isnt much point in shooting slide film unless you really want a certain look not available in neg films IMHO... jco Rhetorics aside, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look I take it you never shot slide film, JCO. I did, and the dynamic range of the *istD was a welcome increase. Jostein On 12/13/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may be able to undo the knee on the film captures but its going to be impossible to undo the clipping on the digital capture when the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the digital system's (sensor) recording capability. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of graywolf Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:21 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look Luckily we can adjust that in Photoshop. It does help some. J. C. O'Connell wrote: But the look is similar. I forgot to post that in either of these cases the film grain is NOT an issue. Its more the tonal range captured and the look of the extreme highlights. Film captures more but the curves are not straight, there is a knee on the hightlights. Whereas digital can't capture as much range but there isnt a knee, its straight right up to the point of clipping... jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: The Film Look I've had the same experience. Stills, by their nature, may lend themselves to more scrutiny. Jack --- J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My interpretation of the film look is like watching a high quality movie ( 70mm print ) vs. a high defintion live video broadcast ( more like the digital look ). jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net __ __ __ __
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
On 15/12/06, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope the final version performs better than the beta because Lightroom is a resource hog. I am not impressed at all. My 3GHz dual core, 1GB RAM 2x 300GB SATA hard drives on a RAID 0 array PC has a conniption fit just viewing the Library. Like the hideous Pentax Photo Browser 2? -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
On 14/12/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml It's an interesting report, the bottom line of which MR hopes that some of Pentax's technical innovations will spur on Canon et al to build better cameras ;-) Indeed: As a Canon user I can only wish that the folks at Canon's marketing and engineering department have a close look at some of the more innovative features offered by Pentax in this new model. With DNG, post exposure JPG processing, and auto-ISO with limit setting, Pentax now offers one of the most innovative feature sets to be found on any DSLR. It looks like the big boys are going to have to start playing catch-up. I really find it curious that very few people even know that a Pentax DSLR exists. A friend of mine here at 'Tech was looking to get a DSLR the other day when he came by to ask me about camera stuff. He was planning on a Cannikon since he knew of a fried or two who had one. While *trying* to be impartial and not discourage any particular brand, the SR, cost, backwards lens compatibility, and AA-batteries sold him on a K100D over all others. His order came in yesterday and I played with it a bit. I'm gonna have to get me one of them thar SR Pentax's... :) I hope that with the K100D and the K10D and all of it's fairly innovative features, they'll get a bit more press and customers. Now if only I could get my logarithmic RGB histogram and aperture coupler... :) -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: LCD Monitor Cover
On Dec 14, 2006, at 7:34, Jack Davis wrote: Anyone using an LCD monitor cover that they'd recommend. I see skins are available, but my perception is that they might protect against minor scratches and nose oil, but not much else. BH shows a number of what might be hard covers (Nikon). I'm wondering how they attach. Any experience? My experience so far is that anything that lays over the screen just makes the image that much more difficult to evaluate. I've had my DS for a couple of years now and only have one teeny scratch on the panel - so I just don't worry about it. -Charles -- Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Relief!
I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: LCD Monitor Cover
Thanks! Good points. Jack --- Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 14, 2006, at 7:34, Jack Davis wrote: Anyone using an LCD monitor cover that they'd recommend. I see skins are available, but my perception is that they might protect against minor scratches and nose oil, but not much else. BH shows a number of what might be hard covers (Nikon). I'm wondering how they attach. Any experience? My experience so far is that anything that lays over the screen just makes the image that much more difficult to evaluate. I've had my DS for a couple of years now and only have one teeny scratch on the panel - so I just don't worry about it. -Charles -- Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
you have made your point. I'm not going to bother anyone with my views in ths matter, since it is completely irrelevant to the issue we were discussing. However, after a recent foray into my archives, with subsequent PS work to clean up old scans, I must say I don't miss film for all the grains in the world! :-) Jostein On 12/14/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, low contrast (normal) color negative film has much more dynamic range capture than slide film so its better than slide film for average contrasty scenes even if you dont need a negative ( used just for scanning ). I stopped using slide film about 10 years ago and went nearly all color neg film for scanning about 5 years ago. Color neg film is also much easier to develop yourself and get developed cheap and fast at labs. So I do NOT agree that the only reason to shoot color neg film is if you need a neg. The way I see it today with scanning it that unless you actually want to project the image in a projector, its ususally better to go with neg films for the other reasons stated too, not just for a look not available in slide films. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look JCO, maybe you were referring to neg film. You wrote only film in general, so I couldn't know, could I? :-) Your arguments has a flip side that goes: If you don't need negatives, there's no point in shooting negative film either. Unless you want a certain look that is not available in slide film IMHO. Without any further substantiation, those claims seem quite futile to someone coming from the-other-kind-of-film. But that's not the point. You ask about dynamic range in digital versus films. Back in 2002 (seems like ages ago, doesn't it...) people on this list maintained that slide film had, on average, about five stops latitude between highlights and deepest shadows. Agfa slide films were reputed to have about half or one stop more, resulting in more details in the highlights. Colour negative film was much debated, and dynamic range varied more among brands and types than did slide film. IIRC, an average figure was about eight stops of latitude. B/W negative film was towering above everything with about 10 stops, depending on brands and types, and very much on development technique and chemicals. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. To your question about producing slides from digital, the answer is yes. I believe it is possible to produce colour negatives from digital as well. A negative film would contain the dynamic range of a raw file, while a slide film would not. Jostein JCO wrote: I was reffering to color or BW neg film. Can you get slides from digital files and are they any wider dynamic range than shooting slide film in the first place? If you dont really need slides, then there isnt much point in shooting slide film unless you really want a certain look not available in neg films IMHO... jco Rhetorics aside, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look I take it you never shot slide film, JCO. I did, and the dynamic range of the *istD was a welcome increase. Jostein On 12/13/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may be able to undo the knee on the film captures but its going to be impossible to undo the clipping on the digital capture when the dynamic range of the scene exceeds the digital system's (sensor) recording capability. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of graywolf Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:21 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look Luckily we can adjust that in Photoshop. It does help some. J. C. O'Connell wrote: But the look is similar. I forgot to post that in either of these cases the film grain is NOT an issue. Its more the tonal range captured and the look of the extreme highlights. Film captures more but the curves are not straight, there is a knee on the hightlights. Whereas digital can't capture as much range but there isnt a knee, its straight right up to the point of clipping... jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jack Davis Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 9:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: RE: The Film Look I've had the same experience. Stills, by their nature,
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
On 14/12/06, jim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: has anyone tried panning with SR turned on with K100D or K10D? The results would be interesting to see. I haven't tried it yet but I will. I've panned with the Minolta A2 and Panny FZ10 without using any dedicated panning mode and had excellent results. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison
Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: For those contemplating FF at this point :-). http://www.ejphoto.com/1ds2_vs_5d.htm What do you expect form Canon WA zooms? :) I expected worse, in fact. Considering these are wide angle zooms wide open they did pretty well. I'd be interested in seeing performance when stopped down. I'd like to see performance on slide film with those lenses As I recall, light falloff wide open is normal for WA zooms even on film/slide -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
On Dec 14, 2006, at 5:46 AM, Perry Pellechia wrote: Thanks for the test but I think your process is a little flawed when it came to Silkypix. You had a pre-disposition towards SP and your final conclusion remained the same. I do not expect you to take a week to learn the program to make a valid comparison. However, you could pass these RAW files to someone who actually knows how to use the program and have them ship back to you PSD files or another format that you can print to make a correct comparison. Perry, I disagree. I went into trying to use Silkypix with as objective an attitude as possible. I was testing for usability and quality *for my purposes*. I process several hundred photos a week and need quality, learnability, usability and productivity. Passing the RAW files to someone else to process teaches me nothing and is not a valid test method for this purpose. Others whose opinions I respect and who produce photographs I admire have found Silkypix does a good job for them and have shown results that look good. More power to them! But it's not enough of a motivation for me to suffer through working with intractable software given that I'm getting quality that satisfies me with tools I find useful to work with. I'm offering my opinions based on what works for my use. That is what I have to consider as important. :-) Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
Rob, You mentioned that you spent time calibrating ACR. What tools did you use? I seem to recall you mentioning something about this before but I've looked and cannot find the specifics. thanks! Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
On Dec 14, 2006, at 5:50 AM, David Savage wrote: I hope the final version performs better than the beta because Lightroom is a resource hog. I am not impressed at all. My 3GHz dual core, 1GB RAM 2x 300GB SATA hard drives on a RAID 0 array PC has a conniption fit just viewing the Library. The Windows builds are younger than the Mac OS X build. Early Mac OS X builds were similarly challenged ... it is beta software, after all. Have you tried beta 4.1? Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison
Sir, I think you missed the ENTIRE point of the article, which was not there was any light falloff seen, the point was there was visible DIFFERENCES in light falloff between two different digital sensors/camaeras with the exact same lens and at the exact same test condtions ( only difference being sensors/cameras under test). jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:23 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: For those contemplating FF at this point :-). http://www.ejphoto.com/1ds2_vs_5d.htm What do you expect form Canon WA zooms? :) I expected worse, in fact. Considering these are wide angle zooms wide open they did pretty well. I'd be interested in seeing performance when stopped down. I'd like to see performance on slide film with those lenses As I recall, light falloff wide open is normal for WA zooms even on film/slide -- Christian http://photography.skofteland.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Relief!
Bill, remember not to enter any sporting events or a chess tournament while taking those drugs :) ann p.s. seriously - sitting comfortably is deifintely something to be happy about! Bill Owens wrote: I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
Of course there is always the question, will the print show the added color space or does the printer just down sample it internally? I would guess the later, so it would just be a convenience. Basically paper and ink will only reflect so much light. To get more you would have to print a transparency. It is simple physics. Luckily most photographers believe in physics, over on an audio forum I have noticed that they mostly believe in magic. Boros Attila wrote: Hello Rob, Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 1:03:12 AM, you wrote: DIS Commercial print services generally require sRGB souce however the DIS occasional one will provide custom profiles, in most cases sRGB will DIS be adequte. But often printer profiles for newer colour ink-jet DIS printers are wider than sRGB or Adobe RGB so choosing either of these DIS colourspaces as your source or workspace or finally converting to DIS either during save may reduce the potential quality of your prints. So the best would be to create a color profile of my printer (I don't have a printer yet) with PrintFIX or something similar and convert to that profile just before printing. This way I could be sure that I use the printer at it's best possible quality. -- Attila -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The Film Look
Well, dont forget there is much more to film than just lowly 35mm. I now use mostly LF, some MF, and some 35mm (mostly only fine grain BW for 35mm). you simply cannot get the picture quality of LF film with any digital systems that dont cost more than a new car! And thats why color neg is good for LF film if you want color, its easy to develop at home and there are very few local labs (actually none in my area) that will do it. Color slide films on the other hand are difficult to devolop as easily and consistantly as color neg at home and why I have pretty much abandoned them completely, even for 35mm because I dont use my projector anymore. Last time I used them for 35mm in any quantity was a trip to SF back in '96 if I recall correctly. But, I do remember one thing, I shot some 8x10 fujichrome test shots once you see that on a light table, everything else looks like total doo doo...but it was a real hassle to develop and extremely critical on exposure for direct viewing. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:53 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look you have made your point. I'm not going to bother anyone with my views in ths matter, since it is completely irrelevant to the issue we were discussing. However, after a recent foray into my archives, with subsequent PS work to clean up old scans, I must say I don't miss film for all the grains in the world! :-) Jostein On 12/14/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, low contrast (normal) color negative film has much more dynamic range capture than slide film so its better than slide film for average contrasty scenes even if you dont need a negative ( used just for scanning ). I stopped using slide film about 10 years ago and went nearly all color neg film for scanning about 5 years ago. Color neg film is also much easier to develop yourself and get developed cheap and fast at labs. So I do NOT agree that the only reason to shoot color neg film is if you need a neg. The way I see it today with scanning it that unless you actually want to project the image in a projector, its ususally better to go with neg films for the other reasons stated too, not just for a look not available in slide films. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look JCO, maybe you were referring to neg film. You wrote only film in general, so I couldn't know, could I? :-) Your arguments has a flip side that goes: If you don't need negatives, there's no point in shooting negative film either. Unless you want a certain look that is not available in slide film IMHO. Without any further substantiation, those claims seem quite futile to someone coming from the-other-kind-of-film. But that's not the point. You ask about dynamic range in digital versus films. Back in 2002 (seems like ages ago, doesn't it...) people on this list maintained that slide film had, on average, about five stops latitude between highlights and deepest shadows. Agfa slide films were reputed to have about half or one stop more, resulting in more details in the highlights. Colour negative film was much debated, and dynamic range varied more among brands and types than did slide film. IIRC, an average figure was about eight stops of latitude. B/W negative film was towering above everything with about 10 stops, depending on brands and types, and very much on development technique and chemicals. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. To your question about producing slides from digital, the answer is yes. I believe it is possible to produce colour negatives from digital as well. A negative film would contain the dynamic range of a raw file, while a slide film would not. Jostein JCO wrote: I was reffering to color or BW neg film. Can you get slides from digital files and are they any wider dynamic range than shooting slide film in the first place? If you dont really need slides, then there isnt much point in shooting slide film unless you really want a certain look not available in neg films IMHO... jco Rhetorics aside, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look I take it you never shot slide film, JCO. I did, and the dynamic range of the *istD was a welcome increase. Jostein On 12/13/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You may be able to undo the knee on the film captures but its going to be
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
I hope to see a K1D in 1 - 2 years if the 645D doesn't take off or kill Pentax when it fails. Cotty wrote: On 13/12/06, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml Interesting, thanks for posting. K1D just gone from 99% myth to about 75% myth for me. Let's see what a couple of years brings. -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
On Dec 14, 2006, at 2:42 AM, Jostein Øksne wrote: From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. I find 7-9 stops of useful DR with RAW capture on the *ist DS, similar to my Canon 10D. I think the K10D is maybe up a stop from that range and averages closer to 9 than 7, at least from my early testing. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
On 12/14/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 14, 2006, at 5:46 AM, Perry Pellechia wrote: Thanks for the test but I think your process is a little flawed when it came to Silkypix. You had a pre-disposition towards SP and your final conclusion remained the same. I do not expect you to take a week to learn the program to make a valid comparison. However, you could pass these RAW files to someone who actually knows how to use the program and have them ship back to you PSD files or another format that you can print to make a correct comparison. Perry, I disagree. I went into trying to use Silkypix with as objective an attitude as possible. I was testing for usability and quality *for my purposes*. I process several hundred photos a week and need quality, learnability, usability and productivity. Passing the RAW files to someone else to process teaches me nothing and is not a valid test method for this purpose. Others whose opinions I respect and who produce photographs I admire have found Silkypix does a good job for them and have shown results that look good. More power to them! But it's not enough of a motivation for me to suffer through working with intractable software given that I'm getting quality that satisfies me with tools I find useful to work with. I'm offering my opinions based on what works for my use. That is what I have to consider as important. :-) Godfrey, You opened you email with a statement that your motivation for running the test was to see if SP did a better job of conversion than other methods you were using. I assumed that you were trying to determine if SP offered any advantage. I understand that a tool is useless if you cannot figure out how to use it and I did not expect you to take a lot of time trying to learn it. However, there was no point even including SP in your report if you did not get the best result from it. You have made it clear that SP does not fit your workflow. Again, I am not trying to go JCO on you. I was just making a suggestion that your test could have been more fair to SP by allowing a skilled user to produce a test image. I respect your choice in rejecting SP for your own use and I certainly do not think you are obligated to complete testings to satisfy me. Oh, :-) Perry. -- Perry Pellechia Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
hehe. That means I still have some way to go with my raw processing, Godfrey. Both depressing and encouraging... Jostein On 12/14/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 14, 2006, at 2:42 AM, Jostein Øksne wrote: From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. I find 7-9 stops of useful DR with RAW capture on the *ist DS, similar to my Canon 10D. I think the K10D is maybe up a stop from that range and averages closer to 9 than 7, at least from my early testing. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash
Yeah I understand that technology changes... It doesn't help though that I bought their most expensive flash unit and that now it's basically useless. :-) Long before the life of the product itself has been exhausted. Tom C. From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 19:34:25 -0600 - Original Message - From: Mike Hamilton Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash P-TTL was already the standard in new Pentax bodies (MZ-S MZ-6) in 2001, 2 years prior to the *ist D, which *also* supports TTL. As do the *ist DS and *ist DS2. I think that 14 years (1992 to 2006) of use of a top of the line flash on modern bodies is reasonable. There was even 5 years of overlap where your TTL flash was still supported in new camera bodies. And nothing stops you from using that flash on a *ist D/DS/DS2 body now! Enjoy your equipment as it was intended. It's more stuff being left off that limits support for older equipment, in this case, an analogue flash control. I'm sure it was done to cut costs. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10D and Ring flash
It's much better on the DS (firmware v2.0), but still not perfect. Still when I get a K10D I'll keep the D as backup and plan to sell the DS, for whatever I can get for it. William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Kostas Kavoussanakis Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash Not sure what you are saying here, William. The AF-500FTZ is digitally controlled, isn't it? It's the rear-facing sensor for TTL that is omitted, because it did not work well with the CCDs. Am I wrong? Sorry, I didn't realize the 500 was a digital flash. My experience with TTL flash control on the istD was very dissapointing. William Robb -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
On 15/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, You mentioned that you spent time calibrating ACR. What tools did you use? I seem to recall you mentioning something about this before but I've looked and cannot find the specifics. I used a GretagMacbeth Color Checker Chart and the ACR Calibrator script for PS by Thomas Fors (which was based on the manual calibration procedure as outlined in the Bruce Frazer ACR book AFAIK) http://fors.net/chromoholics/download/ Apparently the script at the following link is more configurable but I've had no need to use it: http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/ColorCalibration/ -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
I wouldn't call it hideous, miserable maybe, but not hideous. Digital Image Studio wrote: On 15/12/06, David Savage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope the final version performs better than the beta because Lightroom is a resource hog. I am not impressed at all. My 3GHz dual core, 1GB RAM 2x 300GB SATA hard drives on a RAID 0 array PC has a conniption fit just viewing the Library. Like the hideous Pentax Photo Browser 2? -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10d panning with SR on?.
Based on the description of how Pentax's SR works you'd be hard pressed to damage anything by not turning it off while panning. You just run the risk of it not helping the final image, or in fact making the final image worse. John Whittingham wrote: Does the SR system work during pan shots of moving subjects? Yes, it does work, but switching the SR function off is recommended. In shooting conditions where there may be camera shake more than by hand, the SR system may not appropriately compensate for the shaking. Just as I thought, you'd need some control over the direction in the SR i.e. vertical movement only. I'd be afraid of damaging something if I left it on while panning. John The information transmitted is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you have received an email in error please notify Carmel College on [EMAIL PROTECTED] then delete all copies of it from your systems. Although Carmel College scans incoming and outgoing emails and email attachments for viruses we cannot guarantee a communication to be free of all viruses nor accept any responsibility for viruses. Although Carmel College monitors incoming and outgoing emails for inappropriate content, the college cannot be held responsible for the views or expressions of the author. The views expressed may not necessarily be those of Carmel College and Carmel College cannot be held responsible for any loss or injury resulting from the contents of a message. -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
Pentax has a problem with name recognition especially with those who're new, (less than ten years of experience), to photography, or so it seems. Cory Papenfuss wrote: On 14/12/06, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very enthusiastic user report: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/pentax-10D.shtml It's an interesting report, the bottom line of which MR hopes that some of Pentax's technical innovations will spur on Canon et al to build better cameras ;-) Indeed: As a Canon user I can only wish that the folks at Canon's marketing and engineering department have a close look at some of the more innovative features offered by Pentax in this new model. With DNG, post exposure JPG processing, and auto-ISO with limit setting, Pentax now offers one of the most innovative feature sets to be found on any DSLR. It looks like the big boys are going to have to start playing catch-up. I really find it curious that very few people even know that a Pentax DSLR exists. A friend of mine here at 'Tech was looking to get a DSLR the other day when he came by to ask me about camera stuff. He was planning on a Cannikon since he knew of a fried or two who had one. While *trying* to be impartial and not discourage any particular brand, the SR, cost, backwards lens compatibility, and AA-batteries sold him on a K100D over all others. His order came in yesterday and I played with it a bit. I'm gonna have to get me one of them thar SR Pentax's... :) I hope that with the K100D and the K10D and all of it's fairly innovative features, they'll get a bit more press and customers. Now if only I could get my logarithmic RGB histogram and aperture coupler... :) -Cory -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: BH's weird ordering blackouts
I kind of assumed it was Ben and Hiram/ Bob Shell wrote: On Dec 13, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Norm Baugher wrote: I refer to the store as Temple BH... Who knows what B H stands for? Bob -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
thanks, jco. you have made your point again. I don't think I need further iterations. Jostein On 12/14/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, dont forget there is much more to film than just lowly 35mm. I now use mostly LF, some MF, and some 35mm (mostly only fine grain BW for 35mm). you simply cannot get the picture quality of LF film with any digital systems that dont cost more than a new car! And thats why color neg is good for LF film if you want color, its easy to develop at home and there are very few local labs (actually none in my area) that will do it. Color slide films on the other hand are difficult to devolop as easily and consistantly as color neg at home and why I have pretty much abandoned them completely, even for 35mm because I dont use my projector anymore. Last time I used them for 35mm in any quantity was a trip to SF back in '96 if I recall correctly. But, I do remember one thing, I shot some 8x10 fujichrome test shots once you see that on a light table, everything else looks like total doo doo...but it was a real hassle to develop and extremely critical on exposure for direct viewing. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:53 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look you have made your point. I'm not going to bother anyone with my views in ths matter, since it is completely irrelevant to the issue we were discussing. However, after a recent foray into my archives, with subsequent PS work to clean up old scans, I must say I don't miss film for all the grains in the world! :-) Jostein On 12/14/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, low contrast (normal) color negative film has much more dynamic range capture than slide film so its better than slide film for average contrasty scenes even if you dont need a negative ( used just for scanning ). I stopped using slide film about 10 years ago and went nearly all color neg film for scanning about 5 years ago. Color neg film is also much easier to develop yourself and get developed cheap and fast at labs. So I do NOT agree that the only reason to shoot color neg film is if you need a neg. The way I see it today with scanning it that unless you actually want to project the image in a projector, its ususally better to go with neg films for the other reasons stated too, not just for a look not available in slide films. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look JCO, maybe you were referring to neg film. You wrote only film in general, so I couldn't know, could I? :-) Your arguments has a flip side that goes: If you don't need negatives, there's no point in shooting negative film either. Unless you want a certain look that is not available in slide film IMHO. Without any further substantiation, those claims seem quite futile to someone coming from the-other-kind-of-film. But that's not the point. You ask about dynamic range in digital versus films. Back in 2002 (seems like ages ago, doesn't it...) people on this list maintained that slide film had, on average, about five stops latitude between highlights and deepest shadows. Agfa slide films were reputed to have about half or one stop more, resulting in more details in the highlights. Colour negative film was much debated, and dynamic range varied more among brands and types than did slide film. IIRC, an average figure was about eight stops of latitude. B/W negative film was towering above everything with about 10 stops, depending on brands and types, and very much on development technique and chemicals. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. To your question about producing slides from digital, the answer is yes. I believe it is possible to produce colour negatives from digital as well. A negative film would contain the dynamic range of a raw file, while a slide film would not. Jostein JCO wrote: I was reffering to color or BW neg film. Can you get slides from digital files and are they any wider dynamic range than shooting slide film in the first place? If you dont really need slides, then there isnt much point in shooting slide film unless you really want a certain look not available in neg films IMHO... jco Rhetorics aside, -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look I take it you never
Re: Relief!
I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill - Relief indeed! I know how back incapacitating back problems are. It's why I hesitate to carry F2.8 zooms. Best wishes, Bill, and Merry Christmas. Joe -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison
I've heard the Canon WA lenses especially WA Zooms have considerably more light falloff, (and corner softness), than most any other major manufacturer. It's not fair I know, but my only direct comparison is the Canon EF-S 18-55 which a miserable little excuse for a lens compared to my smcp FA 20-35 f4.0. (Yes I am comparing a FF lens against an APS only lens, a DA 18-55 would be a great direct comparison, but I don't have one). But who wants to be fair anyway? Christian wrote: Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: For those contemplating FF at this point :-). http://www.ejphoto.com/1ds2_vs_5d.htm What do you expect form Canon WA zooms? :) I expected worse, in fact. Considering these are wide angle zooms wide open they did pretty well. I'd be interested in seeing performance when stopped down. I'd like to see performance on slide film with those lenses As I recall, light falloff wide open is normal for WA zooms even on film/slide -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
PESO: Converging verticals?
Another fog shot from the back 40 http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/b/cbwaters/photo/foggy-trees-06.jpg CW FWIW, we don't have 40 in the front OR the back. A little more than one is all there is. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10D and Ring flash
William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: Kostas Kavoussanakis Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash Not sure what you are saying here, William. The AF-500FTZ is digitally controlled, isn't it? It's the rear-facing sensor for TTL that is omitted, because it did not work well with the CCDs. Am I wrong? Sorry, I didn't realize the 500 was a digital flash. My experience with TTL flash control on the istD was very dissapointing. William Robb The AF500FTZ is digital TTL flash, the Digital SLR's require P-TTL (Ie Preflash TTL)(other than the D, DS and DS2 which all can do digital or analog TTL). -Adam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The Film Look
OK, but to put it shortly, FILM STILL RULES when it comes to top quality imaging and you said you dont miss it. I think what you meant is you dont miss 35MM film which is something altogether different. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 11:09 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look thanks, jco. you have made your point again. I don't think I need further iterations. Jostein On 12/14/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, dont forget there is much more to film than just lowly 35mm. I now use mostly LF, some MF, and some 35mm (mostly only fine grain BW for 35mm). you simply cannot get the picture quality of LF film with any digital systems that dont cost more than a new car! And thats why color neg is good for LF film if you want color, its easy to develop at home and there are very few local labs (actually none in my area) that will do it. Color slide films on the other hand are difficult to devolop as easily and consistantly as color neg at home and why I have pretty much abandoned them completely, even for 35mm because I dont use my projector anymore. Last time I used them for 35mm in any quantity was a trip to SF back in '96 if I recall correctly. But, I do remember one thing, I shot some 8x10 fujichrome test shots once you see that on a light table, everything else looks like total doo doo...but it was a real hassle to develop and extremely critical on exposure for direct viewing. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:53 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look you have made your point. I'm not going to bother anyone with my views in ths matter, since it is completely irrelevant to the issue we were discussing. However, after a recent foray into my archives, with subsequent PS work to clean up old scans, I must say I don't miss film for all the grains in the world! :-) Jostein On 12/14/06, J. C. O'Connell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, low contrast (normal) color negative film has much more dynamic range capture than slide film so its better than slide film for average contrasty scenes even if you dont need a negative ( used just for scanning ). I stopped using slide film about 10 years ago and went nearly all color neg film for scanning about 5 years ago. Color neg film is also much easier to develop yourself and get developed cheap and fast at labs. So I do NOT agree that the only reason to shoot color neg film is if you need a neg. The way I see it today with scanning it that unless you actually want to project the image in a projector, its ususally better to go with neg films for the other reasons stated too, not just for a look not available in slide films. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jostein Øksne Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:42 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look JCO, maybe you were referring to neg film. You wrote only film in general, so I couldn't know, could I? :-) Your arguments has a flip side that goes: If you don't need negatives, there's no point in shooting negative film either. Unless you want a certain look that is not available in slide film IMHO. Without any further substantiation, those claims seem quite futile to someone coming from the-other-kind-of-film. But that's not the point. You ask about dynamic range in digital versus films. Back in 2002 (seems like ages ago, doesn't it...) people on this list maintained that slide film had, on average, about five stops latitude between highlights and deepest shadows. Agfa slide films were reputed to have about half or one stop more, resulting in more details in the highlights. Colour negative film was much debated, and dynamic range varied more among brands and types than did slide film. IIRC, an average figure was about eight stops of latitude. B/W negative film was towering above everything with about 10 stops, depending on brands and types, and very much on development technique and chemicals. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. To your question about producing slides from digital, the answer is yes. I believe it is possible to produce colour negatives from digital as well. A negative film would contain the dynamic range of a raw file, while a slide film would not. Jostein JCO wrote: I was reffering to color or BW neg film. Can you get slides from digital files and are they any wider dynamic range than shooting slide film in the first
PESO: Slow Day
Fog today at the Waters Complex. http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/b/cbwaters/photo/slow-day.jpg It's Emily's birthday and she's home with a fever(!). So we're home with not much going on. I thought the trampoline looked lonely. *istD the FAJ 18-35. (both still for sale) Colors suffered a little in translation somewhere... Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Dinged by DNG in the K10D?
Shel, once I figured out that I had to download the right version of ACR, and the latest DNG file/format Plug In, AND install it properly, everything worked as it is supposed to. As a JPEG shooter primarily, I doubt that I will instantly changeover to RAW/DNG's, but having that little button available makes the opportunity much more usable at a moments notice. I feel sure that I will use the feature more and more as I learn this terrific new camera! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Relief!
Good news Bill. Hang in there. Dave Quoting Bill Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net Equine Photography in York Region -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison
I agree. But what I'd like to see is a corner vs. centre sharpness comparison, as that's the real weakness of the Canon ultra-wides. Light falloff is rather endemic, and I suspect the 1DsmII has some compensation in the microlens design (given a camera twice as costly, Canon has a little more wiggle-room for costly sensor modifications to reduce issues like this) -Adam J. C. O'Connell wrote: Sir, I think you missed the ENTIRE point of the article, which was not there was any light falloff seen, the point was there was visible DIFFERENCES in light falloff between two different digital sensors/camaeras with the exact same lens and at the exact same test condtions ( only difference being sensors/cameras under test). jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christian Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 10:23 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: For those contemplating FF at this point :-). http://www.ejphoto.com/1ds2_vs_5d.htm What do you expect form Canon WA zooms? :) I expected worse, in fact. Considering these are wide angle zooms wide open they did pretty well. I'd be interested in seeing performance when stopped down. I'd like to see performance on slide film with those lenses As I recall, light falloff wide open is normal for WA zooms even on film/slide -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash
On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Tom C wrote: Yeah I understand that technology changes... It doesn't help though that I bought their most expensive flash unit and that now it's basically useless. :-) Long before the life of the product itself has been exhausted. That's an aperture-simulator kind of argument. Stick it on an AF film body and enjoy. The real complaint is that we had to wait 14 years for the successor of the AF500FTZ (more if you live in the UK). The MZ-S would have made use of it as early as 2001. Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: PESO: Slow Day
Interesting. I like the rich color of the leaves. I'd like to see other compositions, with the trampoline off center and smaller in frame. Just a thought. Paul -- Original message -- From: cbwaters [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fog today at the Waters Complex. http://bellsouthpwp.net/c/b/cbwaters/photo/slow-day.jpg It's Emily's birthday and she's home with a fever(!). So we're home with not much going on. I thought the trampoline looked lonely. *istD the FAJ 18-35. (both still for sale) Colors suffered a little in translation somewhere... Cory -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Our albino deer
Nice shots. Thanks for posting them. I have lots of deer in my yards, sometimes as many as 20 or more at a time, but I have never seen an albino. Dan On 12/12/06, Michael Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very interesting. Where are you located? East Aurora NY -- 20 miles outside Buffalo -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Another Panorama PESO...
I really love this shot! On 12/13/06, Cory Papenfuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally getting around to finishing up the mountain/glacier panorama I started working on in July. http://www.ee.vt.edu/~mythtv/PESO/4/ Comments welcome. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
FYI: Bruce Fraser illness ...
A friend told me yesterday that Bruce Fraser, author of Real World Camera Raw and other excellent titles, had been ill and it wasn't getting any better. This morning I ran across this page: http://photoshopnews.com/2006/12/13/bruce-frasers-serious-illness/ #comments I have met him a few times, don't know him well, but his books have been most helpful to me. Thought some might like to know. G -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 09:27:35AM -0500, Cory Papenfuss wrote: I hope that with the K100D and the K10D and all of it's fairly innovative features, they'll get a bit more press and customers. Now if only I could get my logarithmic RGB histogram and aperture coupler... :) I think a logarithmic histogram would be a really useful tool, but I'm afraid that the linear histogram is too deeply embedded in the photographic consciousness. Unless you could get someone such as Adobe to switch to it in their software there's too much risk of confusion by showing a histogram that isn't like anyone else. I'm not going to touch the other item with a 10-foot pole ... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Relief!
It's a bitch to get old. Bill Owens wrote: I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: LCD Monitor Cover
Same here. G On Dec 14, 2006, at 6:17 AM, Charles Robinson wrote: On Dec 14, 2006, at 7:34, Jack Davis wrote: Anyone using an LCD monitor cover that they'd recommend. I see skins are available, but my perception is that they might protect against minor scratches and nose oil, but not much else. BH shows a number of what might be hard covers (Nikon). I'm wondering how they attach. Any experience? My experience so far is that anything that lays over the screen just makes the image that much more difficult to evaluate. I've had my DS for a couple of years now and only have one teeny scratch on the panel - so I just don't worry about it. -Charles -- Charles Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
Any sufficiently advanced technology will be indistinguishable from magic. (Paraphrased from Arthur C. Clark) With the state of Education today, I believe we've entered the age of Magic. graywolf wrote: Of course there is always the question, will the print show the added color space or does the printer just down sample it internally? I would guess the later, so it would just be a convenience. Basically paper and ink will only reflect so much light. To get more you would have to print a transparency. It is simple physics. Luckily most photographers believe in physics, over on an audio forum I have noticed that they mostly believe in magic. Boros Attila wrote: Hello Rob, Wednesday, December 13, 2006, 1:03:12 AM, you wrote: DIS Commercial print services generally require sRGB souce however the DIS occasional one will provide custom profiles, in most cases sRGB will DIS be adequte. But often printer profiles for newer colour ink-jet DIS printers are wider than sRGB or Adobe RGB so choosing either of these DIS colourspaces as your source or workspace or finally converting to DIS either during save may reduce the potential quality of your prints. So the best would be to create a color profile of my printer (I don't have a printer yet) with PrintFIX or something similar and convert to that profile just before printing. This way I could be sure that I use the printer at it's best possible quality. -- Attila -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 04:49:25PM +, Kostas Kavoussanakis wrote: On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Tom C wrote: Yeah I understand that technology changes... It doesn't help though that I bought their most expensive flash unit and that now it's basically useless. :-) Long before the life of the product itself has been exhausted. That's an aperture-simulator kind of argument. Stick it on an AF film body and enjoy. The real complaint is that we had to wait 14 years for the successor of the AF500FTZ (more if you live in the UK). The MZ-S would have made use of it as early as 2001. Kostas It's also rather annoying that the AF500 doesn't have an auto mode, so I'd be better off with my 30-year-old Sunpak 3000 on a new body. (Although, of course, there's an aperture-simulator parallel; a screw- mount lens gives me slightly more automation that a later K/M mount). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
BTW, what I find with these DSLRs is substantially better DR than all but a very few films, of any format, either BW or color. My old mentor/buddy who specializes in 'exotic process' 6x9cm and 4x5 inch BW film work was impressed with the DR I was showing him when I visited with some portfolio prints on my trip. G On Dec 14, 2006, at 8:10 AM, Jostein Øksne wrote: hehe. That means I still have some way to go with my raw processing, Godfrey. Both depressing and encouraging... I find 7-9 stops of useful DR with RAW capture on the *ist DS, similar to my Canon 10D. I think the K10D is maybe up a stop from that range and averages closer to 9 than 7, at least from my early testing. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Dinged by DNG in the K10D?
Hi Walter, I'm not using the latest version of ACR, and the version of the DNG plug-in that I'm using is two or three generations back (v3.3 - maybe 3.1 - I'll have to check) My version of ACR is only 2.4. When I brought up the DNG files from the K10D, I didn't use the DNG plug-in. The files came right up in ACR - AFAIK, anyway. They came up in the Photoshop CS browser and when I clicked on the file I wanted to see, it opened in ACR 2.4. That's why I was surprised. Shel [Original Message] From: Walter Hamler Shel, once I figured out that I had to download the right version of ACR, and the latest DNG file/format Plug In, AND install it properly, everything worked as it is supposed to. As a JPEG shooter primarily, I doubt that I will instantly changeover to RAW/DNG's, but having that little button available makes the opportunity much more usable at a moments notice. I feel sure that I will use the feature more and more as I learn this terrific new camera! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Luminous Landscape: Reichmann tries out a K10D
I think a logarithmic histogram would be a really useful tool, but I'm afraid that the linear histogram is too deeply embedded in the photographic consciousness. Unless you could get someone such as Adobe to switch to it in their software there's too much risk of confusion by showing a histogram that isn't like anyone else. I use Gimp for much of my processing and ufraw for some of my raw conversions. They both provide the option of linear or log histogram. Really irritates me for shots of the moon or stars or other night with small light shots... can't tell when they're blown out. Would have been nice when I was flying alongside Chicago as well: http://www.ee.vt.edu/~mythtv/imgp6043_WB_USM.jpg I wanted to expose for the lights, but I could make out nothing on the (linear) histogram except the thin black line on the left from all the dark stuff. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: FYI: Bruce Fraser illness ...
I don't know Bruce, never met him, but when I read something like that it just tears me up. Shel [Original Message] From: Godfrey DiGiorgi A friend told me yesterday that Bruce Fraser, author of Real World Camera Raw and other excellent titles, had been ill and it wasn't getting any better. This morning I ran across this page: http://photoshopnews.com/2006/12/13/bruce-frasers-serious-illness/ #comments I have met him a few times, don't know him well, but his books have been most helpful to me. Thought some might like to know. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: EOS 5D vs EOS 1Ds Corner Light fall-off comparison
There is some truth to that reputation (which is odd, the large throat size of the EF mount and shorter register should allow for better better performance than is achieved by Nikon, Olympus, Carl Zeiss and Leica). The real issue is the poor edge sharpness on FF bodies of the Canon lenses that go wider than 24mm (Canon's 24mm's are quite good). This is especially noticable with the 17-40L and the 20mm f2.8, which are superb performers on the cropped bodies. Oddly, the sole exception to this is the EF-S 10-22, which has some distorion issues (odd mustache distortion at the wide end), but is a superb performer otherwise. I personally shoot some Canon film kit, but mostly as a platform for M42 lenses (And Leica R soon, I recently acquired an R-EOS adaptor) and the only Canon lens I currently own is the plastic fantastic 50mm f1.8 II (Great lens for the money, but it's really crappy build quality). -Adam P. J. Alling wrote: I've heard the Canon WA lenses especially WA Zooms have considerably more light falloff, (and corner softness), than most any other major manufacturer. It's not fair I know, but my only direct comparison is the Canon EF-S 18-55 which a miserable little excuse for a lens compared to my smcp FA 20-35 f4.0. (Yes I am comparing a FF lens against an APS only lens, a DA 18-55 would be a great direct comparison, but I don't have one). But who wants to be fair anyway? Christian wrote: Mark Roberts wrote: P. J. Alling wrote: For those contemplating FF at this point :-). http://www.ejphoto.com/1ds2_vs_5d.htm What do you expect form Canon WA zooms? :) I expected worse, in fact. Considering these are wide angle zooms wide open they did pretty well. I'd be interested in seeing performance when stopped down. I'd like to see performance on slide film with those lenses As I recall, light falloff wide open is normal for WA zooms even on film/slide -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: January PUG
On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 12:27:36AM -0500, ann sanfedele wrote: Ok - well December was fire we could just make January ICE had we decided that 10 was for April? because that was the actual month? Or just have it an open gallery since the holidays are upon us. ? I think that would be fine. (Or, of course, we could be boring, and go for Holidays). Anyone else got an opinion? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RAW converter follies with the Pentax K10D
Thanks Rob. I'm getting good results without doing any explicit calibration, but I might try running some calibration tests to see what benefit they might have for me. G On Dec 14, 2006, at 7:58 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote: On 15/12/06, Godfrey DiGiorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rob, You mentioned that you spent time calibrating ACR. What tools did you use? I seem to recall you mentioning something about this before but I've looked and cannot find the specifics. I used a GretagMacbeth Color Checker Chart and the ACR Calibrator script for PS by Thomas Fors (which was based on the manual calibration procedure as outlined in the Bruce Frazer ACR book AFAIK) http://fors.net/chromoholics/download/ Apparently the script at the following link is more configurable but I've had no need to use it: http://www.rags-int-inc.com/PhotoTechStuff/ColorCalibration/ -- Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10D and Ring flash
Does the AF500FTZ not have an Auto-Thyristor mode? I know the AF400FTZ and AF540FGZ do. Auto flash works extremely well on digital. -Adam Tom C wrote: It's not an argument at all. I'm simply stating that since I paid, at the time, a pretty penny, and haven't used it that much, I'm disappointed. Why would I shoot film just to use my flash unit? Tom C. From: Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:49:25 + (GMT) On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Tom C wrote: Yeah I understand that technology changes... It doesn't help though that I bought their most expensive flash unit and that now it's basically useless. :-) Long before the life of the product itself has been exhausted. That's an aperture-simulator kind of argument. Stick it on an AF film body and enjoy. The real complaint is that we had to wait 14 years for the successor of the AF500FTZ (more if you live in the UK). The MZ-S would have made use of it as early as 2001. Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Relief!
Sure beats the alternative. On 12/14/06, P. J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a bitch to get old. Bill Owens wrote: I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- Perry Pellechia Primary email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alternate email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Home Page: http://homer.chem.sc.edu/perry -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash
It's not an argument at all. I'm simply stating that since I paid, at the time, a pretty penny, and haven't used it that much, I'm disappointed. Why would I shoot film just to use my flash unit? Tom C. From: Kostas Kavoussanakis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: RE: K10D and Ring flash Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:49:25 + (GMT) On Thu, 14 Dec 2006, Tom C wrote: Yeah I understand that technology changes... It doesn't help though that I bought their most expensive flash unit and that now it's basically useless. :-) Long before the life of the product itself has been exhausted. That's an aperture-simulator kind of argument. Stick it on an AF film body and enjoy. The real complaint is that we had to wait 14 years for the successor of the AF500FTZ (more if you live in the UK). The MZ-S would have made use of it as early as 2001. Kostas -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: FYI: Bruce Fraser illness ...
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: A friend told me yesterday that Bruce Fraser, author of Real World Camera Raw and other excellent titles, had been ill and it wasn't getting any better. This morning I ran across this page: http://photoshopnews.com/2006/12/13/bruce-frasers-serious-illness/ #comments I have met him a few times, don't know him well, but his books have been most helpful to me. Thought some might like to know. G That's very sad news. Lung Cancer is not a nice thing. I hope Bruce proves luckier than expected. -Adam Who lost a close friend to Lung Cancer when he was 9 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Relief!
Glad to hear that Bill! You gotta get in shape for GFM. You should let Phyllis do the USB cords... Regards, Bob S. On 12/14/06, Bill Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: The Film Look
If you only shot 35mm (like the vast majority of people, including on this list), missing 35mm is all that counts. -Adam Who still shoots 35mm and MF film, and will go LF in the future J. C. O'Connell wrote: OK, but to put it shortly, FILM STILL RULES when it comes to top quality imaging and you said you dont miss it. I think what you meant is you dont miss 35MM film which is something altogether different. jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: Relief!
Beat me to the punch! :-( Bill -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of P. J. Alling Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:12 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Relief! It's a bitch to get old. Bill Owens wrote: I can finally sit somewhat comfortably, for a short time at least. I had a steroid injection for a compression fracture in my lower back yesterday and I'm slowly feeling better. Got the fracture by bending over looking for a USB port on a printer. I'm scheduled for the second injection in about 3 weeks and by then will hopefully be able to be up and about more. Bill -- Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler. --Albert Einstein -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Understanding ProPhoto RGB - or not
a transparency. It is simple physics. Luckily most photographers believe in physics, over on an audio forum I have noticed that they mostly believe in magic. Oxygen-free, cryogenically-treated, directionality of AC signals kinda magic... Rather comical to read, actually. -Cory -- * * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA * * Electrical Engineering* * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University * * -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re:WE NEED A THEME was: January PUG -
It occurs to me people are not thinking we are missing a theme by your original title so I added a bit of emphasis :) Oh I know, we could all send something in and Addie could make up a theme based on the entries (just kidding) ann John Francis wrote: On Thu, Dec 14, 2006 at 12:27:36AM -0500, ann sanfedele wrote: Ok - well December was fire we could just make January ICE had we decided that 10 was for April? because that was the actual month? Or just have it an open gallery since the holidays are upon us. ? I think that would be fine. (Or, of course, we could be boring, and go for Holidays). Anyone else got an opinion? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: K10D and Ring flash
On Dec 14, 2006, at 9:50 AM, Tom C wrote: It's not an argument at all. I'm simply stating that since I paid, at the time, a pretty penny, and haven't used it that much, I'm disappointed. The value in any of this equipment is in its use, not in its longevity, future usability or residual value. If you bought it and didn't use it much, well, that's your fault not Pentax'. It's why I have not yet purchased a dedicated flash unit of any kind: I don't get enough use out of high-falutin' flash features to be worth the money. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
Re: Dinged by DNG in the K10D?
Shel, Walter's using Photoshop Elements. I don't know it well, perhaps it has some other needs/dependencies. Photoshop CS + Camera Raw v2.4 works just fine to open DNG files. G On Dec 14, 2006, at 9:53 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: I'm not using the latest version of ACR, and the version of the DNG plug-in that I'm using is two or three generations back (v3.3 - maybe 3.1 - I'll have to check) My version of ACR is only 2.4. When I brought up the DNG files from the K10D, I didn't use the DNG plug-in. The files came right up in ACR - AFAIK, anyway. They came up in the Photoshop CS browser and when I clicked on the file I wanted to see, it opened in ACR 2.4. That's why I was surprised. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
RE: The Film Look
I dont think this is a correct statement in that there are a lot of low (normal) contrast negative films out there with extremely wide dynamic range CAPTURE capability, better than current digitals from everything I have read. They are not only not rare, they are probably the most common, both BW and Color. i.e. typical slow neg films. And you cant really tell the difference in a digital print, which is what you are using as an example, because those prints have less range than he films I am talking about and it wont be seen fully. Contact prints directly from film would be a better way to compare. jco -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:36 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: The Film Look BTW, what I find with these DSLRs is substantially better DR than all but a very few films, of any format, either BW or color. My old mentor/buddy who specializes in 'exotic process' 6x9cm and 4x5 inch BW film work was impressed with the DR I was showing him when I visited with some portfolio prints on my trip. G On Dec 14, 2006, at 8:10 AM, Jostein Øksne wrote: hehe. That means I still have some way to go with my raw processing, Godfrey. Both depressing and encouraging... I find 7-9 stops of useful DR with RAW capture on the *ist DS, similar to my Canon 10D. I think the K10D is maybe up a stop from that range and averages closer to 9 than 7, at least from my early testing. From my personal experience with *istD, I would say that the latitude is around 6-7 stops for a raw file, placing it firmly between slide and colour negative film. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
