Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I couldn't even bring myself to make my comment... Mark Roberts wrote: Cotty wrote: I used to have a GF years ago into obedience training. Nah... You're making it too easy, Cotty. -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
The judge's criteria.(?) Same thing as having a print accepted into a juried exhibit. Not a competition unless ultimately vying for ribbons again other accepted work. Obviously not the case with the Pentax Gallery. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No, just subjectively judged as good enough. Nothing to do with where it may fall in the balance of accepted or declined. Well then, good enough as compared to what? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: frank theriault wrote: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? And it's a moving target, to boot. You never know who may be voting on your photo at any given time. Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. Have you tried voting? It is a very poor interface for voting on photos. - *HAVE* to vote up or down for each photo presented (can't vote on just 1 or 2) - tiny thumbnails - clicking thumbnail and get large image (have to scroll to get to close button) - vote on 5 or 6 photos at a time I would think an am I hot or not-type interface would be much better. One image and you can vote on it or go to the next image. No required voting, no tiny thumbnails, no huge images (okay, I am using a small laptop with a 1280x800 screen but still). I think the voting interface is a big cause for rejections. Personally, when I see 6 photos there is not a chance I'm going to want to vote on all 6. If other people are the same and they vote down on images that don't grab them... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation The judge's criteria.(?) Same thing as having a print accepted into a juried exhibit. Not a competition unless ultimately vying for ribbons again other accepted work. Obviously not the case with the Pentax Gallery. The judges criteria? Personally, I think you are dreaming, but we'll let it go at that. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Yes, the judge's criteria..what else? Now, let's move on.(?) Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation The judge's criteria.(?) Same thing as having a print accepted into a juried exhibit. Not a competition unless ultimately vying for ribbons again other accepted work. Obviously not the case with the Pentax Gallery. The judges criteria? Personally, I think you are dreaming, but we'll let it go at that. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Gee thanks. Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt? Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'? Do you know why? The French word for a goal is 'but'. To score a goal is marquer un but. Butt is more or less directly derived from that word. That word itself is derived from a word for the end of a barrel (butt) or tree stump, which was used as the target in archery. It is all in the same sense field as 'thick' and 'end' and the word 'buttock' is derived from the same source and applied metaphor to one's glutes. It's not just archery targets, of course. Rifle ranges are also called butts. In cadets at school it was always rather fun to be in the butts changing the targets and listening to the bullets zinging overhead. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Francis Sent: 27 September 2007 23:10 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Gee thanks. Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt? Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'? Do you know why? As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio. Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
William Robb wrote: There have been occassions when a dissenting opinion has triggered an outpouring of loathing and abuse at the transgressor, also. Yes, it puzzles me greatly. I just cannot imagine how deeply invested in their views about someone else's photos these folks must be. There are or have been people on this list who are/were at least passingly familiar with judging pictures who rarely comment(ed) on photos for this reason. Another thing could be people like me, who were trained to praise in public and berate in private. Criticism can go either way depending on how strong it is. :-) The bulk of my experience with criticizing other people's work is more one-on-one, like software code and documentation reviews. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Agreed - it is irritating, and the acceptance/rejection procedure is inconsistent. Several people have resubmitted images that were previously declined and had them accepted. Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ Quoting frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm glad for you, but I find that having every single photo that I submitted rejected (with no reasons, I might add, so I really don't know ~why~) doesn't do much for my enthusiasm... cheers, frank -- Finally - A spam blocker that actually works. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/4 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Questioning kind peoples motives is a good thing. Ego allows blind acceptance. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... especially kind people. Point taken and agreed. That's one of the problems I constantly battle against. I like kind people. :-) 1. I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject. 2. On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image. Those people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter. There's a fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why they like. 3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most people. That's why I've ranted a little bit in the past on this. Not every image displayed is worthy of praise, yet it seems almost invariably the image is praised... maybe it's kindness, maybe as a mistaken way of encouraging the photographer to keep trying, I don't know. Could be I'm overanalyzing. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:02:43 -0700 (PDT) ..especially kind people. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I don't see this as a competition. I'm not hoping to win Best of Show, just a good enough nod. If you are wanting to get a picture into a judged gallery, then what you are hjoping is that your picture will be enough better than the other pictures submitted to make the cut. That, my obdurate friend, is, by definition, a competition. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
We went to Crufts in London every year for 4 years... The secret of longevity? Tom C. From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: pentax list PDML@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:35:36 +0100 On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: I've judged a few contests. They are pretty damned subjective. You wanna see really subjective judging, start hanging out at dog shows. Oh boy. I used to have a GF years ago into obedience training. She had a cross lab/collie called Sherpa - she was 16 and I was 18...ah, the memories...I digress. We went to Crufts in London every year for 4 years and that was a whole new word for me. I shot HP4 on a Fujica ST605n, I have negs somewhere. I wish I had time to scan them -- Cheers, Cotty -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Cotty wrote: I used to have a GF years ago into obedience training. Nah... You're making it too easy, Cotty. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, Brian Walters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip And I'm a bit more enthusiastic about my photography - and that has to be a good thing... I'm glad for you, but I find that having every single photo that I submitted rejected (with no reasons, I might add, so I really don't know ~why~) doesn't do much for my enthusiasm... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I don't see this as a competition. I'm not hoping to win Best of Show, just a good enough nod. Best set your A alarm. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion from da 'judge'. You may get a favourable enough opinion, and still not win the competition, in that if your picture didn't (doesn't) get published in the gallery, and some else's does, then subjectively speaking, the other picture was considered to be the better picture, given the often rather vague subjective criteria that is applied to artistic merit. Shit, I just used the A word. Sorry. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids. http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=summer+activities+for+kidscs=bz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/28/07, Malcolm Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: H Should you send a picture of something disagreeable - but what if that were then accepted? We all know you take great pictures anyway, so why worry. I'm not worried. ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb Different sides of the same coin? I need to back up a step. The reality is that most non-photographer people look at images and have an initial reaction. They're not doing it with a critical eye, in the same way that I can watch a movie for pure entertainment. I have a friend that fanices himself in the movie business. He pans some of my favorite movies over the directing, etc. I hate some of the ones he likes. It's probaby the same forces at work. Here, though, and other photo forums, where people generally fancy themselves knowledgeable regarding photography, I agree. For my part, when I see crap over and over, I start ignoring it. If I see a piece of dog s**t on the sidewalk I may kick it to the street, but after a while my shoe starts to stink, and I'm more likely simply to avoid it. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Kenneth Waller wrote: The reality is that most non-photographer people look at images and have an initial reaction. The same holds true for a lot of photographer people. And that's not *necessarily* a bad thing. The tendency to over-intellectualize and/or nit-pick can be just as unproductive as failure to observe carefully. I remember in particular one photo of Frank's that absolutely knocked me out in the very first moment I saw it. A lot of other PDMLers felt the same way but there was a lot of overanalysis (IMHO) afterwards. WHen I see a shot that blows me away at first glance, I do enjoy thinking carefully about and analyzing it -- working out exactly *why* I like it gives me ideas I can apply to my own photos -- but I try to keep the memory of that first blink impression while doing so. That Frank picture is still one of my favorites :) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Certainly, they do. But then the brain should probably get involved. Tom C. From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:32:56 -0400 The reality is that most non-photographer people look at images and have an initial reaction. The same holds true for alot of photographer people. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb Different sides of the same coin? I need to back up a step. The reality is that most non-photographer people look at images and have an initial reaction. They're not doing it with a critical eye, in the same way that I can watch a movie for pure entertainment. I have a friend that fanices himself in the movie business. He pans some of my favorite movies over the directing, etc. I hate some of the ones he likes. It's probaby the same forces at work. Here, though, and other photo forums, where people generally fancy themselves knowledgeable regarding photography, I agree. For my part, when I see crap over and over, I start ignoring it. If I see a piece of dog s**t on the sidewalk I may kick it to the street, but after a while my shoe starts to stink, and I'm more likely simply to avoid it. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
That's true to some extent. But on a list like this, which is largely a social community, one has to exercise some restraint. In the past, one member in particular, who is not here at present, critiqued in a very personal way, questioning not just the quality of the photo but the skills and dedication of the photographer. That can be a very bad situation, which it proved to be. Paul -- Original message -- From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. I agree. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation - Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Hi Frank, I'm glad for you, but I find that having every single photo that I submitted rejected (with no reasons, I might add, so I really don't know ~why~) doesn't do much for my enthusiasm... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson Perhaps they disagree with Henri Cartier-Bresson? Should you send a picture of something disagreeable - but what if that were then accepted? We all know you take great pictures anyway, so why worry. Malcolm -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
You obviously learned a lot from her... Norm Cotty wrote: Oh boy. I used to have a GF years ago into obedience training. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
The reality is that most non-photographer people look at images and have an initial reaction. The same holds true for alot of photographer people. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb Different sides of the same coin? I need to back up a step. The reality is that most non-photographer people look at images and have an initial reaction. They're not doing it with a critical eye, in the same way that I can watch a movie for pure entertainment. I have a friend that fanices himself in the movie business. He pans some of my favorite movies over the directing, etc. I hate some of the ones he likes. It's probaby the same forces at work. Here, though, and other photo forums, where people generally fancy themselves knowledgeable regarding photography, I agree. For my part, when I see crap over and over, I start ignoring it. If I see a piece of dog s**t on the sidewalk I may kick it to the street, but after a while my shoe starts to stink, and I'm more likely simply to avoid it. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. I agree. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation - Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
The standard is there to be seen, but you need to learn how, and then be willing to judge your own pictures against those of others. Bingo ! Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation - Original Message - From: frank theriault Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You can see what has been accepted can't you? The standard is there to be seen, but you need to learn how, and then be willing to judge your own pictures against those of others. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: I've judged a few contests. They are pretty damned subjective. You wanna see really subjective judging, start hanging out at dog shows. Oh boy. I used to have a GF years ago into obedience training. She had a cross lab/collie called Sherpa - she was 16 and I was 18...ah, the memories...I digress. We went to Crufts in London every year for 4 years and that was a whole new word for me. I shot HP4 on a Fujica ST605n, I have negs somewhere. I wish I had time to scan them -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. You are not taking enough pictures of blonde, blue-eyed, baby girls. From my experience, totally out of focus or completely misexposed are merely not very good. All others are excellent or superb. There appear to be no other categories. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. You are not taking enough pictures of blonde, blue-eyed baby girls. From my experience, totally out of focus or completely misexposed are merely not very good. All others are excellent or superb. There appear to be no other categories. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 28/09/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: Cotty wrote: I used to have a GF years ago into obedience training. Nah... You're making it too easy, Cotty. She trained *me* :-) -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
That's a funny reply and it's essentially correct. Any kind of artistic endeavor is just like real life: There's no definite target, no step-by-step instructions that will guarantee success. well, although I wrote it as a joke, the basic ideas and the image of snow slipping from a bamboo leaf come from Zen In The Art Of Archery by Eugen Herrigel. Some of us might think it's a lot of mystical droppings from the rear of a bull, but it was a great influence on Henri Cartier-Bresson, so maybe there's something in it. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zen-Art-Archery-Training-Become/dp/0140190740/ ref=sr_1_1/026-6533884-2100457?ie=UTF8s=booksqid=1191003104sr=8-1 -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts Sent: 27 September 2007 23:05 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 28/09/07, Norm Baugher, discombobulated, unleashed: You obviously learned a lot from her... I certainly learned how to beg! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/28/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some of us might think it's a lot of mystical droppings from the rear of a bull,snip Bob, You've got a way with words... ;-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
In a message dated 9/28/2007 2:11:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You are not taking enough pictures of blonde, blue-eyed, baby girls. From my experience, totally out of focus or completely misexposed are merely not very good. All others are excellent or superb. There appear to be no other categories. === Tad cynical even for this list. Marnie aka Doe ;-) - Warning: I am now filtering my email, so you may be censored. ** See what's new at http://www.aol.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Tom C wrote: On 9/28/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some of us might think it's a lot of mystical droppings from the rear of a bull,snip Bob, You've got a way with words... ;-) cheers, frank I saw the mystical droppings from the rear of a dog lying on the sidewalk yesterday and almost took a picture of it because it looked like art. Then I decided it stunk. Tom C. I always photograph shit with a telephoto lens. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/28/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some of us might think it's a lot of mystical droppings from the rear of a bull,snip Bob, You've got a way with words... ;-) cheers, frank I saw the mystical droppings from the rear of a dog lying on the sidewalk yesterday and almost took a picture of it because it looked like art. Then I decided it stunk. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Yes Paul, I remember. Definitely not the way it should be done. When a critique is requested, as in PESO etc, if I have a problem with the image, I try to state it as succinctly as possible with an eye towards improvement. It serves no objective end to go after the photographer personally. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation That's true to some extent. But on a list like this, which is largely a social community, one has to exercise some restraint. In the past, one member in particular, who is not here at present, critiqued in a very personal way, questioning not just the quality of the photo but the skills and dedication of the photographer. That can be a very bad situation, which it proved to be. Paul -- Original message -- From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. I agree. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation - Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
No, just subjectively judged as good enough. Nothing to do with where it may fall in the balance of accepted or declined. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I don't see this as a competition. I'm not hoping to win Best of Show, just a good enough nod. If you are wanting to get a picture into a judged gallery, then what you are hjoping is that your picture will be enough better than the other pictures submitted to make the cut. That, my obdurate friend, is, by definition, a competition. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Luggage? GPS? Comic books? Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mailp=graduation+giftscs=bz -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On Fri, Sep 28, 2007 at 03:01:38PM -0400, Scott Loveless wrote: Tom C wrote: On 9/28/07, Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Some of us might think it's a lot of mystical droppings from the rear of a bull,snip Bob, You've got a way with words... ;-) cheers, frank I saw the mystical droppings from the rear of a dog lying on the sidewalk yesterday and almost took a picture of it because it looked like art. Then I decided it stunk. Tom C. I always photograph shit with a telephoto lens. Oh, I don't know - you're not *that* bad ... :-) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No, just subjectively judged as good enough. Nothing to do with where it may fall in the balance of accepted or declined. Well then, good enough as compared to what? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Cotty has always striven to be the least competitive person. If he finds someone less competitive than himself, he works and works, and trains and trains until he is less competitive than the other person. He can't stand it if someone is less competitive than himself. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Boris Liberman Sent: 27 September 2007 05:08 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Strange. I really thought that you were rather competitive person, Cotty. I am fairly competitive, but in photography I don't feel any desire to prove anything. So I don't really participate in competitions... Boris Cotty wrote: On 26/09/07, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: so I'll continue shooting, with or without The PENTAX Photo Gallery. Hey Frank. Welcome to my life :-) I entered a photographic competition once. It was the first and last time. Absolutely never again. I only ever make pics for one person: me. If someone else likes them, too bad ;-) I suspect you are the same. I raise a glass to you sir. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Bob W, discombobulated, unleashed: Cotty has always striven to be the least competitive person. If he finds someone less competitive than himself, he works and works, and trains and trains until he is less competitive than the other person. He can't stand it if someone is less competitive than himself. Also, I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: I really thought that you were rather competitive person, Cotty. I am fairly competitive, but in photography I don't feel any desire to prove anything. So I don't really participate in competitions... My competitive side extends solely to my professional life. Needs must. Beyond that, I'm not a keen advocate of the 'I am better than you and I would like it personally vindicated' philosophy. Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. To encourage creativity? Loada bollux! I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/09/27 Thu AM 03:24:42 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. wabbit ann Variety: scwewy. On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Frank, I think your photographs are beautiful. Screw the gallery. rg2 On 9/27/07, mike wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: ann sanfedele [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/09/27 Thu AM 03:24:42 GMT To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. wabbit ann Variety: scwewy. On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. - Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. Jack --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/07, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
What's *hard* to imagine about Pentax? Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 06:58:49 -0700 (PDT) No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. Jack --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/27/07, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day considerably... - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.32/1032 - Release Date: 9/26/2007 8:20 PM -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Fascinating (in Mr Spock of Vulcan way)... I tend to agree with you on most of the sentiments you expressed. In fact, I kind of thought it would be competitive (the Pentax gallery thingie) from the start. Given the fact that the submitted work is filtered by someone else immediately implies that there are criteria to be met. And here we have it - the competition. Boris Cotty wrote: On 27/09/07, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed: I really thought that you were rather competitive person, Cotty. I am fairly competitive, but in photography I don't feel any desire to prove anything. So I don't really participate in competitions... My competitive side extends solely to my professional life. Needs must. Beyond that, I'm not a keen advocate of the 'I am better than you and I would like it personally vindicated' philosophy. Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. To encourage creativity? Loada bollux! I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
LOL Cory. :-) Tom C. From: cbwaters [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:09:46 -0400 Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day considerably... - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 9:55 AM Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.32/1032 - Release Date: 9/26/2007 8:20 PM -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: ann sanfedele Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. wabbit A wascally wabbit? he-he-e-e-e -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On Sep 27, 2007, at 12:09 AM, Cotty wrote: My competitive side extends solely to my professional life. Needs must. Beyond that, I'm not a keen advocate of the 'I am better than you and I would like it personally vindicated' philosophy. Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. To encourage creativity? Loada bollux! I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. I agree completely. I enter photos into exhibition contests on a regular basis as a part of my professional business. It's a crap shoot ... anyone with any sense realizes that a competition of this sort is 100% subjective whimsy on the part of the juror committee. Godfrey -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: frank theriault n 9/27/07, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Unless the prize for the winning photograph is worth having. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Tom C, discombobulated, unleashed: 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Har!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, cbwaters, discombobulated, unleashed: Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day considerably... Ceeb I think you'd like it over here. Ever been? We could show you a pretty nice stadium for starters -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion from da 'judge'. Jack --- Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/index.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Tom C. You buying ? Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I can just about understand the need for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get my support or interest. Cheers, Cotty 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint. Then we'll see how you feel about exclusive. ;-) Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Cotty wrote: On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
..or a holler!! ;) Jack --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel. http://travel.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I agree. If acceptance is left purely to a judging panel, then we can expect the regular subjectivity. If it's based on a general vote of others, then it's also suspect, as the general public doesn't know hooey about good photography. I'd like to know the qualifications of the judges, myself. It is totally possible photos are being judged by people with no other particular qualifications than that they work for Pentax, which is totally within their bailiwick, just not reassuring. If the gallery is designed to be a high-quality gallery, then all images should clearly be outstanding. If it's not designed to be that, then the result will be something less. (Stating the obvious). Tom C. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:45:35 + It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Paul -- Original message -- From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. Jack --- William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation No way it could be stated any better, Frank. Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to imagine. Could be they consider accepted artist voting a handy explanation..if needed. When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes. snip Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. snip I agree 100%! Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. I thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos. I didn't see it as grading or rating photos, merely accepting. I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most. I didn't understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is. I know my photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal, ordinary photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot. It may be that these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer voters, and the gallery needed photos, but it certainly points to a glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO. Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun. Having everything rejected isn't fun at all... It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need to clear to get a reward, it is a competition. Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity contest. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
You're right, it isn't. You might look at it from the standpoint of a vocal 'artist' who looks for applause when she stops singing. Approval can be intoxicating. Jack --- Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cotty wrote: On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase. http://farechase.yahoo.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
frank theriault wrote: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? And it's a moving target, to boot. You never know who may be voting on your photo at any given time. Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ ... said the married man... Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Pooka Gonz wrote: Oops that should have been family Leporidae. I'm not sure whether Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare. On 9/26/07, Gonz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, didn't you read the fine print? In Title 9, section 4, paragraph 110, Item b) : No work shall be accepted from the class Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies. =:) On 9/26/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
USE THE FORCE, FRANK. Tom C. From: Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' pdml@pdml.net Subject: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:07:05 +0100 How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/27/07, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pooka Just like Harvey... :-) cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Gee thanks. Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt? Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'? Do you know why? As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio. Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed: Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Points taken! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 27/09/07, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. Hey Frank, let's start our own gallery pages :- Avante-garde??? You ain't seen nothin yet baby!! -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. That's a funny reply and it's essentially correct. Any kind of artistic endeavor is just like real life: There's no definite target, no step-by-step instructions that will guarantee success. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Mercy that's deep. Jack --- Bob W [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. Every photo contest I've ever entered had variable subjectivity IMO Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation frank theriault wrote: I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? And it's a moving target, to boot. You never know who may be voting on your photo at any given time. Subjective is one thing. Variably subjective is irritating at best. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
...after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. I couldn't have done that kind of presentation without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. my $.02 worth. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:09 PM Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Gee thanks. Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt? Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'? Do you know why? As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio. Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio). On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote: How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Hope that helps. -- Bob -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of frank theriault Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question: how subjective is this standard? Same as all competitions: Very. Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the accepted artists' voting: How many votes are required to be accepted or rejected? What percentage of yes votes is required for acceptance? and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first screening can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. We don't know who those people are, and what they're looking for. It's all very closed door, which to me makes it something of a crap-shoot. I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them all rejected makes me a better photographer. It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me. Some may find this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't. I mean, hey, no hard feelings. Pentax can run this thing any way they want; it's their contest. However, if this is the way they choose to run it, my choice is to not participate. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/28/07, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: crap-shoot. Going off topic. This phrase always brings to mind Mambo t-shirts the artwork of Reg Mombassa. Carry on. Cheers, Dave (I don't think non-Aussies will get the connection) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
..especially kind people. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
I agree with Mark on this. For all of its faults, the Pentax Gallery has given my photography a bit more focus (pun not intended). I'm not necessarily taking photos specifically aimed at being accepted (because most aren't) but I find I'm taking more care about composition and lighting and looking for other possibilities in a subject that I may have not noticed previously. And I'm a bit more enthusiastic about my photography - and that has to be a good thing... Cheers Brian ++ Brian Walters Western Sydney Australia http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/ Quoting Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. -- Get a free email address with REAL anti-spam protection. http://www.bluebottle.com/tag/1 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
... especially kind people. Point taken and agreed. That's one of the problems I constantly battle against. I like kind people. :-) 1. I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject. 2. On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image. Those people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter. There's a fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why they like. 3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most people. That's why I've ranted a little bit in the past on this. Not every image displayed is worthy of praise, yet it seems almost invariably the image is praised... maybe it's kindness, maybe as a mistaken way of encouraging the photographer to keep trying, I don't know. Could be I'm overanalyzing. :-) Tom C. From: Jack Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:02:43 -0700 (PDT) ..especially kind people. Jack --- Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos more. http://mobile.yahoo.com/go?refer=1GNXIC -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Tom C wrote: 1. I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject. 2. On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image. Those people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter. There's a fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why they like. 3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most people. If you're talking about image displayed on the PDML, I'd guess that at least some of it is the self selection effect. Basically, people who think well of the image are far more likely to post about it. -- Thanks, DougF (KG4LMZ) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) My point is a lot more people are getting to see my images because of the gallery. Kenneth Waller http://tinyurl.com/272u2f - Original Message - From: Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation From: Kenneth Waller [EMAIL PROTECTED] I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery several into the Premiere Gallery. I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people the response I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall manner in which the images are presented. It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! :-) However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't like and they'd love them just as much. Most non-serious photographers are not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye. Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I couldn't have done that kind of presentat ion without having my own web site with its attending costs maintenance. And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on. I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would never think of submitting. The images I saw posted in the gallery in the beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now. That's what I'd expect. Tom C. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
William Robb wrote: I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb Good to have you back, Bill. :) -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Doug Franklin Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation If you're talking about image displayed on the PDML, I'd guess that at least some of it is the self selection effect. Basically, people who think well of the image are far more likely to post about it. There have been occassions when a dissenting opinion has triggered an outpouring of loathing and abuse at the transgressor, also. There are or have been people on this list who are/were at least passingly familiar with judging pictures who rarely comment(ed) on photos for this reason. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: frank theriault Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what the standard is. How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You can see what has been accepted can't you? The standard is there to be seen, but you need to learn how, and then be willing to judge your own pictures against those of others. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion from da 'judge'. You may get a favourable enough opinion, and still not win the competition, in that if your picture didn't (doesn't) get published in the gallery, and some else's does, then subjectively speaking, the other picture was considered to be the better picture, given the often rather vague subjective criteria that is applied to artistic merit. Shit, I just used the A word. Sorry. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-). Bullshit, it just proves some are more equal than others, no matter what the old adage says. Some may consider it very important. As an example, I don't have breeding rights on Jester, so I have nothing to gain by his getting his championship other than bragging rights that I own a peer recognized dog and a warm feeling someplace other than my pants, but I still intend to show him to championship A breeder may have several dogs in a show, this doesn't change that it is a competition. Really, does the gallery differ in principle from this? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Bob W Subject: RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation How can I aim for a target if I can't see it? You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow? Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. Bob, that was beautiful. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Tom C Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Overall I find people to be too easily impressed. I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Jack Davis Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition. If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score' against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice. I think we are on the same side of the fence on this one, Davis. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
- Original Message - From: Cotty Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed: Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such that you are competing against a standard. Question: how subjective is this standard? I've judged a few contests. They are pretty damned subjective. You wanna see really subjective judging, start hanging out at dog shows. William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Pentax Gallery Resignation
At the risk of sounding insensitive... you can't resign from an entity you were not a part of. I hope this cheers you up and provides added incentive to continue. ;-) Tom C. From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net Subject: Pentax Gallery Resignation Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:54:15 -0400 Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Frank they simply don't understand you the way we do. frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Remember, it’s pillage then burn. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
A couple things are working against you here, and neither reflects in a negative way on your photography. One: You waited too long. Based on observation, I'd say the gallery is getting a lot of submissions now and accepting very few. BW street shots seem to be a small minority of the accepted submissions. Take it with a grain of salt. You're an excellent photographer. Paul -- Original message -- From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
On 9/26/07, Tom C [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the risk of sounding insensitive... you can't resign from an entity you were not a part of. I hope this cheers you up and provides added incentive to continue. ;-) Actually, I was a part of it in some manner. I could vote on photos, and in fact I was exhorted to do so. It's from that exhortation that I was told that I was an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery. On that basis (so they told me) I could vote. In fact, it was when I read that line I decided to resign. It seems rather paradoxical to call me an accepted artist and then reject every piece of work I submit. Perhaps they should have waited until one of my submissions was accepted before calling me an accepted artist. BTW, I'm not in need of cheering up. I find this whole thing amusing. If by continue you mean continuing submission of photos to The Gallery, that seems rather futile. I'm fine with how things are going photographically these days, so I'll continue shooting, with or without The PENTAX Photo Gallery. ;-) -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Pentax Gallery Resignation
Frank, here is what I think: 1. You're an excellent photographer. You really are. 2. You were somewhat late jumping on the Pentax photo gallery train. I for one realize that with the grand amount of submitted photographs my chances to have my work accepted are very small. I was lucky enough to submit some of my photos when there were only few photographs and photographers in the gallery. And some of my work got accepted. Having said that, I think you should really not dwell much in this specific project. I realize it would be cool to be on display on Pentax Gallery, but if you're not there it *really* does not make you any less a photographer than you actually are. Cheer up! Boris frank theriault wrote: Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery: Sirs/Mesdames, I may be an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery, however, my first 12 photos have been rejected. As of the date of this e-mail, there are three pending. It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery standards. Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending. Please feel free remove me from your list of accepted artists. Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos. regards, frank theriault cheers, frank -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
