Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Thanks to all. I really would like to take my Pentax V spotmeter along, but it's s big and heavy and won't fit in a pocket. Perhaps if somebody sells me an Pentax Digital Spotmeter ;-))) ? I am IMHO proficient in the use of spotmeter (although it's not colour calibrated by Zone IV or other source), but for BW film, I wouldn't take any meter at all and trust my mind (as it's most fun, and now with experience works quite well). But I will be shooting chromes, and there I thought a meter would be better. Anyway, I will use the 6 degree spotmeter built-in in my rangefinder camera to guess and fine the exposure, and maybe use the reflective mode of the incident meter. 2) question - you all told me to use dome and point it AT camera. But that's for faces and such things, but landscapes are flat - there is not light from underneath like in 3D objects like faces - so wouldn't it be better to use the flat diffuser or dome but parallel to the landscape? '3) Perhaps I will just take the spotmeter and cope withj the bulk :) Yes, I probably will. but out of curiosity, what about above #2 ? thanks a lot Frantisek - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Frantisek Vlcek wrote: 2) question - you all told me to use dome and point it AT camera. But that's for faces and such things, but landscapes are flat - there is not light from underneath like in 3D objects like faces - so wouldn't it be better to use the flat diffuser or dome but parallel to the landscape? You're correct that the light in a typical landscape isn't coming from underneath the scene or from the camera position, But that doesn't mean you shouldn'tmeasure the light that's coming from behind the camera. In most photographs, the planes that are revealed to the camera comprise the majorit of the frame. So, yes, in that case, use the incident meter and point it at the camera. The sufaces that are facing the lens will be properly exposed. If, on the other hand, 'you are concerned about the exposure value orf a surface that is facing the sky, you'd want to use your spotmeter. Consider, for example, a snowfield that reflects a bright, sunlit sky. The light coming from the direction of the lens might be insiginificant in comparison to the light that is illuminating the snowfiield from above. In that case, you'd want to measure the value of the snow with a spotmeter, consider that you'want your exposure two stops brighter than medium gray, and expose the film two stops more than the spotmeter reading on the snow field. I understand your reluctance in dealing with the bulk of the Spotmeter V. I own one as well. And I take it when I know I'm going to be dealing with a difficult lighting situation. For flat, behind the cam,era lighting of most scenes you'll do fine with the incident meter. However, you should take the Spotmeter V with you and satisfy your own curiosity. I think you'll find that when shooting an evenly lighted scene, you'll be able to point the spotmeter at a moderately reflective object ( a medium green, light brown,, medium red, or a grey) amd get a reading identical to that of the incident meter. However, in other situations, the difference between a properly obtained spotmeter reading and the incident meter reading could be several f stops. Paul '3) Perhaps I will just take the spotmeter and cope withj the bulk :) Yes, I probably will. but out of curiosity, what about above #2 ? thanks a lot Frantisek - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Frantisek Vlcek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Hi frantisek, short: how about metering a snowy landscape using incident meter (L398) ? Well, why not? 1) should I use the dome diffuser? Or the flat diffuser? 1) I'd use the dome diffuser. 2) how should I point the meter? parallel with ground? Half point between sun and camera (as in studio) ? 2) the meter should be set in a way to read the light as it goes on the subject. Point it to receive the light like the part of the subject you want to meter does. 3) Anything else? 3) Nothing that I can think of at the moment... Ciao, and Merry Christmas! Gianfranco = Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
I think that incident meters work very well for lancscape photography, since you usually have a range of values in the scene. The exceptions would be if you're shooting white sand and water or black volcabnic rock.. In those cases, you would want to use a spotmeter and deetermine the values of the significant parts of the scene. Paul Frantisek Vlcek wrote: Hi, short: how about metering a snowy landscape using incident meter (L398) ? long: I will be going to a short trip to country (runningski) day after tomorrow, and of course I will take camera(s) with me :) I was thinking about leaving my spotmeter at home (I take Yashica D, meterless, and a rangefinder. Both normal FOV of 42mm lens,BTW - somewhat challenging for landscapes IMHO) - it's a Pentax Spotmeter V (latest model) and although it's great and never failed me (it's built like a tank too, I had a look inside, I needed to resolder broken battery wires), it's bigger and heavier than the rangefinder, and doesn't fit into any of my StreetField belt lens cases (I carry the Yashica film hood in one LC3, the rangefinder in a small Tamrac case). Weather is gonna be overcast probably, so what about just using incident meter? 1) should I use the dome diffuser? Or the flat diffuser? 2) how should I point the meter? parallel with ground? Half point between sun and camera (as in studio) ? 3) Anything else? Thanks for help. Good light, Frantisek Vlcek 4 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
*Sometimes* an incident meter will work well for landscapes. There are too many variables to make such a blanket statement. If the contrast range of the scene is too great for the film, you'll never know it by using an incident meter. Nor can you get an accurate reading if you're standing in a light that's different than that of the subject. Only a spot meter will be able to provide accurate readings in such situations. Paul Stenquist wrote: I think that incident meters work very well for lancscape photography, since you usually have a range of values in the scene. The exceptions would be if you're shooting white sand and water or black volcabnic rock.. In those cases, you would want to use a spotmeter and deetermine the values of the significant parts of the scene. -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Shel Belinkoff wrote: Nor can you get an accurate reading if you're standing in a light that's different than that of the subject. Hi Shel, When I use an incident meter, it's a given that I position the mteter in the same light that is striking the subject. It's basically the same as using a grey card at the subject. It gives you a midpoint exposure, and if most of your values fall to one side or the other of a grey value, you'll be pretty darn close to a perfect exposure. Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Hi Paul ... To me it's not a given, as it seems that with landscapes there's often something in the distance that's part of the scene. And with landscapes there are times when parts of a scene are in deep shadow or in bright light. Perhaps I am pickier than most, but I want to know exactly what the range of light is in a scene so that I, not an averaging meter, can choose where the highlights and shadows will fall. You are right, however, that when photographing an average scene, and you are reading the same light that's falling on the subject, an incident meter will give good results. However, once you stray from average, or are photographing a scene that is not in the same light the meter reads, the incident meter is best replaced with a spot meter. How would you use an incident meter to photograph a scene when you're a great distance from the area you want to capture, say a distant mountain range across a wide valley? In a situation like that, IMO, only a spot meter or a TTL meter can be truly dependable. And if your camera doesn't happen to have TTL metering, as is the case with many MF and LF cameras, what then are your options? Paul Stenquist wrote: Hi Shel, When I use an incident meter, it's a given that I position the mteter in the same light that is striking the subject. It's basically the same as using a grey card at the subject. It gives you a midpoint exposure, and if most of your values fall to one side or the other of a grey value, you'll be pretty darn close to a perfect exposure. -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Shel Belinkoff wrote: How would you use an incident meter to photograph a scene when you're a great distance from the area you want to capture, say a distant mountain range across a wide valley? In a situation like that, IMO, only a spot meter or a TTL meter can be truly dependable. I wouldn't use the incident meter in that situation. And if I used the TTL meter, I'd want to supplement it with a spot meter reading. I recall when I shot the sunrise on the Minaret Range from Mammoth Mountain, which was at least some twenty miles away, I used the spot to find the value in various parts of the range. There was way too much black sky above the mountains and too much dark valley below them to trust the LX's meter. However, I used the spot meter reading to determine my exposure compensation number, in respect to the LX meter reading, then let the LX's OTF metering finsish the job. The discrepancy wasn't as great as I thought it might be. A half stop at most. But a half stop can make a difference, even with negative film. But the incident meter is a fast and dirty way to handle normal situations. I've used it with great success. Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Well now, if I was across the valley from what I was photographing and it was in direct sunlight I would hold my incident meter in direct sunlight between my camera and the scene with the meter pointed at the camera. If it was in shadow I would hold the meter in shadow and follow the exact same procedure as above. But, you say, what if the scene is in direct sun and there is a cloud or something preventing me from getting a direct sun reading, I need a spot meter for that don't I? Nope, just close down a couple of stops from the meter reading and shoot away. The thing is, with a little experience, you have a good idea of the adjustment needed in just about any situation. The incident meter gives you the baseline exposure and experience gives you the proper adjustment. The standard way to use an incident meter, for the benefit of the original poster, is to use the dome, hold the meter at the subject, point it at the camera, and take your reading. The disk is used for light balancing readings which are usually only used with artificial lighting though they can sometimes be useful in other situations. The incident meter used with the dome, as mentioned above, gives you the equivalent of a gray card reading without the fuss and bother. Experience tells you how to compensate for different tones, etc. In fact, unless you are doing custom processing of your film to rigorous standards, ala zone system, the incident meter will give you just as accurate an exposure as a spot meter. Better, if you are not extremely skilled with that spot meter. Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To me it's not a given, as it seems that with landscapes there's often something in the distance that's part of the scene. And with landscapes there are times when parts of a scene are in deep shadow or in bright light. Perhaps I am pickier than most, but I want to know exactly what the range of light is in a scene so that I, not an averaging meter, can choose where the highlights and shadows will fall. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Well, Paul, the exact same sun was shining on that mountain as was shining on you. Is that not correct? And an incident meter would have given you the correct reading for the sunlight shining on you. Is that not correct? Yes, in such a situation, the only type of reflected light meter that would work well is a narrow spot meter. But, I submit, you could have gotten just as accurate a reading from an incident meter without 1/10th the hassle. Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 8:37 PM Subject: Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident) Shel Belinkoff wrote: How would you use an incident meter to photograph a scene when you're a great distance from the area you want to capture, say a distant mountain range across a wide valley? In a situation like that, IMO, only a spot meter or a TTL meter can be truly dependable. I wouldn't use the incident meter in that situation. And if I used the TTL meter, I'd want to supplement it with a spot meter reading. I recall when I shot the sunrise on the Minaret Range from Mammoth Mountain, which was at least some twenty miles away, I used the spot to find the value in various parts of the range. There was way too much black sky above the mountains and too much dark valley below them to trust the LX's meter. However, I used the spot meter reading to determine my exposure compensation number, in respect to the LX meter reading, then let the LX's OTF metering finsish the job. The discrepancy wasn't as great as I thought it might be. A half stop at most. But a half stop can make a difference, even with negative film. But the incident meter is a fast and dirty way to handle normal situations. I've used it with great success. Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Dome, pointed at the camera from the subject. No compensation is normally needed in such a situation as hte meter is reading the light rather than the snow. Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Frantisek Vlcek [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 4:52 PM Subject: metering landscapes (spot / incident) Hi, short: how about metering a snowy landscape using incident meter (L398) ? long: I will be going to a short trip to country (runningski) day after tomorrow, and of course I will take camera(s) with me :) I was thinking about leaving my spotmeter at home (I take Yashica D, meterless, and a rangefinder. Both normal FOV of 42mm lens,BTW - somewhat challenging for landscapes IMHO) - it's a Pentax Spotmeter V (latest model) and although it's great and never failed me (it's built like a tank too, I had a look inside, I needed to resolder broken battery wires), it's bigger and heavier than the rangefinder, and doesn't fit into any of my StreetField belt lens cases (I carry the Yashica film hood in one LC3, the rangefinder in a small Tamrac case). Weather is gonna be overcast probably, so what about just using incident meter? 1) should I use the dome diffuser? Or the flat diffuser? 2) how should I point the meter? parallel with ground? Half point between sun and camera (as in studio) ? 3) Anything else? Thanks for help. Good light, Frantisek Vlcek 4 - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident)
Tom Rittenhouse wrote: Well, Paul, the exact same sun was shining on that mountain as was shining on you. Is that not correct? No, it wasn't. I was shaded by the peak of Mammoth Mountain. The Minaret's were getting the rising sun. And I was trying to get a moonlight effect, so I was using the spotmeter to put the sunlit portions of the Minaret range in zone 4 or thereabouts. My point is that I had an application here where the spotmeter was very valuable. But I agree that the incident meter is a good tool for almost all situations. But there are a few exceptions. As Shel noted, one exception is where the subject's lighting is different thatn what you can reasonably measure from camera position. I'm sure you agree with this. And an incident meter would have given you the correct reading for the sunlight shining on you. Is that not correct? Yes, in such a situation, the only type of reflected light meter that would work well is a narrow spot meter. But, I submit, you could have gotten just as accurate a reading from an incident meter without 1/10th the hassle. Ciao, graywolf [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 8:37 PM Subject: Re: metering landscapes (spot / incident) Shel Belinkoff wrote: How would you use an incident meter to photograph a scene when you're a great distance from the area you want to capture, say a distant mountain range across a wide valley? In a situation like that, IMO, only a spot meter or a TTL meter can be truly dependable. I wouldn't use the incident meter in that situation. And if I used the TTL meter, I'd want to supplement it with a spot meter reading. I recall when I shot the sunrise on the Minaret Range from Mammoth Mountain, which was at least some twenty miles away, I used the spot to find the value in various parts of the range. There was way too much black sky above the mountains and too much dark valley below them to trust the LX's meter. However, I used the spot meter reading to determine my exposure compensation number, in respect to the LX meter reading, then let the LX's OTF metering finsish the job. The discrepancy wasn't as great as I thought it might be. A half stop at most. But a half stop can make a difference, even with negative film. But the incident meter is a fast and dirty way to handle normal situations. I've used it with great success. Paul - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
