RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: Pardon my last post I think I'll go and have a little lie down now. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net It's more like the difference between an axe made from cast iron and one made from high-grade steel. Same basic metal, will do the same job at first, one will last much longer - although it might cost more. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Charles Robinson wrote: On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:31, JC OConnell wrote: DID YOU READ MY EARLIER POST? WE ALL DID. No. Not all of us... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 8:35 AM, Mark Roberts msrobert...@ysu.edu wrote: Charles Robinson wrote: On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:31, JC OConnell wrote: DID YOU READ MY EARLIER POST? WE ALL DID. No. Not all of us... SPEAK UP, SONNY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
- Original Message - From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Charles Robinson wrote: On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:31, JC OConnell wrote: DID YOU READ MY EARLIER POST? WE ALL DID. No. Not all of us... Shucks, did I miss something?? William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Thank you to all who provided with the brand names of the low self-discharge rate batteries, and reminded about thomas-distributing.com Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Hello all! It looks like one of my two recent sets of AA batteries for my *ist DS has suddenly died, so I am looking for a replacement. What is the current wisdom about rechargeable AA batteries? Any particular brand recommendation, etc.? I remember that last time I was looking at various reviews and forums, I decided that the newer generation (those that come precharged) are worth looking at, as they seem to last longer when not in use. Thank you in advance, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Sanyo Eneloop and Uniross Hybrio are the way to go. They last a lot longer than standard Ni-MH (twice or more), especially because they have negligible auto-discharge as opposed to extra-quick auto discharge of high-mAh rated NiMH batteries. That's precious if you don't use/recharge your batteries daily or so. Dario - Original Message - From: Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org To: PDML@pdml.net Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 3:55 PM Subject: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Hello all! It looks like one of my two recent sets of AA batteries for my *ist DS has suddenly died, so I am looking for a replacement. What is the current wisdom about rechargeable AA batteries? Any particular brand recommendation, etc.? I remember that last time I was looking at various reviews and forums, I decided that the newer generation (those that come precharged) are worth looking at, as they seem to last longer when not in use. Thank you in advance, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Eneloops have a good rep. Get a quality charger. Thomas Distributing... Godfrey - www.gdgphoto.com On Dec 22, 2008, at 6:55 AM, Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org wrote: Hello all! It looks like one of my two recent sets of AA batteries for my *ist DS has suddenly died, so I am looking for a replacement. What is the current wisdom about rechargeable AA batteries? Any particular brand recommendation, etc.? I remember that last time I was looking at various reviews and forums, I decided that the newer generation (those that come precharged) are worth looking at, as they seem to last longer when not in use. Thank you in advance, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Dario Bonazza wrote: Sanyo Eneloop and Uniross Hybrio are the way to go. They last a lot longer than standard Ni-MH (twice or more), especially because they have negligible auto-discharge as opposed to extra-quick auto discharge of high-mAh rated NiMH batteries. That's precious if you don't use/recharge your batteries daily or so. I second (or third) the Sanyo Eneloop recommendation. Dario, thanks for mentioning the Uniross Hybrio--I hadn't heard of those. I'm getting 800-900 shots from a charged set of 4 Eneloops in my K100D Super. These batteries not only hold their charge better, but they don't suffer from voltage-droop as they discharge. But when they are finally flat, you get very little warning and then the camera shuts off, so buy two full sets and keep the charged spares with you! Get a smart charger. This is the kind that only charges the cells until they are measured to be full (charge current drops to a trickle). They charge faster and are kinder to the cells. I really like the Ansmann I bought a year and a bit ago. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
NIHM, and build yourself a trickle charger so you always have a set at the ready. they dont sell trickle chargers in the stores, most are fast or 1 day chargers JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Igor Roshchin Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:55 AM To: PDML@pdml.net Subject: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Hello all! It looks like one of my two recent sets of AA batteries for my *ist DS has suddenly died, so I am looking for a replacement. What is the current wisdom about rechargeable AA batteries? Any particular brand recommendation, etc.? I remember that last time I was looking at various reviews and forums, I decided that the newer generation (those that come precharged) are worth looking at, as they seem to last longer when not in use. Thank you in advance, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
I've just had the same experience, it being winter and all I've decided to go with non rechargeable lithium batteries until the weather warms. I've had the experience of NiHM's simply giving out in cold temperatures with plenty of juice left after they've warmed up. -Original Message- From: Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org Sent: Dec 22, 2008 9:55 AM To: PDML@pdml.net Subject: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Hello all! It looks like one of my two recent sets of AA batteries for my *ist DS has suddenly died, so I am looking for a replacement. What is the current wisdom about rechargeable AA batteries? Any particular brand recommendation, etc.? I remember that last time I was looking at various reviews and forums, I decided that the newer generation (those that come precharged) are worth looking at, as they seem to last longer when not in use. Thank you in advance, Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
nimh technology is nimh technolgy, I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 11:39 AM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Dario Bonazza wrote: Sanyo Eneloop and Uniross Hybrio are the way to go. They last a lot longer than standard Ni-MH (twice or more), especially because they have negligible auto-discharge as opposed to extra-quick auto discharge of high-mAh rated NiMH batteries. That's precious if you don't use/recharge your batteries daily or so. I second (or third) the Sanyo Eneloop recommendation. Dario, thanks for mentioning the Uniross Hybrio--I hadn't heard of those. I'm getting 800-900 shots from a charged set of 4 Eneloops in my K100D Super. These batteries not only hold their charge better, but they don't suffer from voltage-droop as they discharge. But when they are finally flat, you get very little warning and then the camera shuts off, so buy two full sets and keep the charged spares with you! Get a smart charger. This is the kind that only charges the cells until they are measured to be full (charge current drops to a trickle). They charge faster and are kinder to the cells. I really like the Ansmann I bought a year and a bit ago. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, Shrug; optical technology is optical technology too ... :-) In this case improved chemistry and design makes for a better NiMH cell. I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Article_EN.pdf http://snipurl.com/901t1 [it's a PDF file.] -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, Shrug; optical technology is optical technology too ... :-) In this case improved chemistry and design makes for a better NiMH cell. I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Artic le_EN.pdf http://snipurl.com/901t1 [it's a PDF file.] -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
General chemistry is the same, but there's a LOT of variation possible within that general chemistry. All NiMH indicates is that the chemistry uses Nickel Oxyhydride as the Anode and some Metal Hydroxide at the cathode instead of Cadmium (NiCd's use Cadmium). Quite a number of Metal Hydroxides may be used, as well as differing salt bridges, differing concentrations, etc. Specific chemistry varies between manufacturers and capacities. Note the low-self-dischage NiMH's use a different seperator between the anode and cathode chemistry which is much more effective at preventing intermixing. -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:57 PM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, Shrug; optical technology is optical technology too ... :-) In this case improved chemistry and design makes for a better NiMH cell. I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Artic le_EN.pdf http://snipurl.com/901t1 [it's a PDF file.] -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Note I typo'd, that should be 'some Metal Hydride at the Cathode' and 'a number of Metal Hydrides may be used'. Oops. Metal Hydroxides are something entirely different from Metal Hydrides. -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:07 PM, Adam Maas a...@mawz.ca wrote: General chemistry is the same, but there's a LOT of variation possible within that general chemistry. All NiMH indicates is that the chemistry uses Nickel Oxyhydride as the Anode and some Metal Hydroxide at the cathode instead of Cadmium (NiCd's use Cadmium). Quite a number of Metal Hydroxides may be used, as well as differing salt bridges, differing concentrations, etc. Specific chemistry varies between manufacturers and capacities. Note the low-self-dischage NiMH's use a different seperator between the anode and cathode chemistry which is much more effective at preventing intermixing. -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:57 PM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, Shrug; optical technology is optical technology too ... :-) In this case improved chemistry and design makes for a better NiMH cell. I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Artic le_EN.pdf http://snipurl.com/901t1 [it's a PDF file.] -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
All,. JC is correct. The chemistry is the same on all of the NiMH. The different in this hybrid type -- accroding to Sanyo's paper), is the material that they use for cathode. This supposes to reduce the decomposition which causes self-discharge. I have been using Eneloop for the last 18 monts in my DL. This has been the biggest improvement for my DSLR usage. Previously, when I grab my DL, I will have to put a new set of batteries in, and get a set from trickle charge. Now, I can just leave one set in the camera, and one extra set in my bag. On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:57 AM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
I dont believe that even if this is true that it matters, I did a lot of research on NiMH batteries a few years ago because I wanted to built special chargers for them. None of the many mnay engineering pages I read on nimh technology stated there was any differences in charging, characteristics of the voltage drops on charge/discharge, pulse charging techniques, self discharge, etc. They are all very very very similar if they state nimh chemistry from an electical standpoint. I think any battery maker claiming their nimh batteries are much better in any significant electrical parameter for a given cell size and capacity in ma-Hours is selling you snake oil. Take it for what its worth... BTW, the best way to keep fresh nimh handy is to pulse charge. Tricklw works OK, but pulse charge is better. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:07 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? General chemistry is the same, but there's a LOT of variation possible within that general chemistry. All NiMH indicates is that the chemistry uses Nickel Oxyhydride as the Anode and some Metal Hydroxide at the cathode instead of Cadmium (NiCd's use Cadmium). Quite a number of Metal Hydroxides may be used, as well as differing salt bridges, differing concentrations, etc. Specific chemistry varies between manufacturers and capacities. Note the low-self-dischage NiMH's use a different seperator between the anode and cathode chemistry which is much more effective at preventing intermixing. -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:57 PM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 1:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, Shrug; optical technology is optical technology too ... :-) In this case improved chemistry and design makes for a better NiMH cell. I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Art ic le_EN.pdf http://snipurl.com/901t1 [it's a PDF file.] -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
if there is some other chemistry in a hybrid battery you are referring to, then it not really a nimh battery is it? JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Pasvorn Boonmark Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 2:22 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? All,. JC is correct. The chemistry is the same on all of the NiMH. The different in this hybrid type -- accroding to Sanyo's paper), is the material that they use for cathode. This supposes to reduce the decomposition which causes self-discharge. I have been using Eneloop for the last 18 monts in my DL. This has been the biggest improvement for my DSLR usage. Previously, when I grab my DL, I will have to put a new set of batteries in, and get a set from trickle charge. Now, I can just leave one set in the camera, and one extra set in my bag. On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:57 AM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
JC, There are a couple of paper about this. I'm not technical enough to understand all of it. http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Article_EN.pdf I think there is also a couple of papers describing the technology. Let me see if I can get additional info. -Pasvorn On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 11:48 AM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: if there is some other chemistry in a hybrid battery you are referring to, then it not really a nimh battery is it? JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Igor Roshchin escribió: Hello all! It looks like one of my two recent sets of AA batteries for my *ist DS has suddenly died, so I am looking for a replacement. I use Eneloops in my DS. They hold their charge for very long periods of time, and they also last a lot when used in the camera. As Dario said, Uniross Hybrios have similar characteristics. Carlos -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Bruce Walker wrote: I second (or third) the Sanyo Eneloop recommendation. Dario, thanks for mentioning the Uniross Hybrio--I hadn't heard of those. Hybrios are far more diffused here in Italy than Eneloops, due to better distribution. However, the Hybrios could be just rebadged Eneloops. I'm getting 800-900 shots from a charged set of 4 Eneloops in my K100D Super. These batteries not only hold their charge better, but they don't suffer from voltage-droop as they discharge. I no longer use the *istD. A friend of mine shooting the *istDS tells me they last 500-600 shots compared to 250-300 pictures allowed by best conventional NiMH types. I use the Eneloops on my AF540FGZ, and it lasts forever. I'm unable to count the number of flashes it can produce with a set, but sure about twice as much compared to conventional NiMH batteries. But when they are finally flat, you get very little warning and then the camera shuts off, so buy two full sets and keep the charged spares with you! That doesn't happen with a flash unit. Just change the set when you have the feeling that recycle time has become noticeably longer then usual. Ciao, Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 11:38, JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... Well, good morning and time to start reading the news again. Eneloops are very different from standard NiMH. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 13:48, JC OConnell wrote: if there is some other chemistry in a hybrid battery you are referring to, then it not really a nimh battery is it? If it works better, doesn't self-discharge more than 30% over a YEAR, charges in ANY NiMH-compatible charger, and generally makes a rechargeable-battery device pleasant rather than aggravating to use again, then I guess I just don't give a fig about whether or not it is really nimh. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 13:56, Pasvorn Boonmark wrote: JC, There are a couple of paper about this. I'm not technical enough to understand all of it. http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Article_EN.pdf I think there is also a couple of papers describing the technology. Let me see if I can get additional info. Pasvorn, you are wasting your breath. He's right and we are all wrong. He will assure you of that. I don't know why I even let myself get sucked into this sort of thread. I should be smarter than this. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
do you have any technical papers or links explaining what is chemically different about these eneloops even though they are still considered nimh? Im not saying your wrong, it just doesnt make sense to call them nimh if they have different or additional chemistry to me... JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 11:38, JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... Well, good morning and time to start reading the news again. Eneloops are very different from standard NiMH. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
thats absurd batteries need to be referred to by chemistry nicad alkaline li-ion lead acid carbon zinc etc etc if you find someting good or like fine, but dont call it a best nimh if its really something else (if it is something else, maybe nimh has had some major technical breakthru, but it a big secret so far). JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:14 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 13:48, JC OConnell wrote: if there is some other chemistry in a hybrid battery you are referring to, then it not really a nimh battery is it? If it works better, doesn't self-discharge more than 30% over a YEAR, charges in ANY NiMH-compatible charger, and generally makes a rechargeable-battery device pleasant rather than aggravating to use again, then I guess I just don't give a fig about whether or not it is really nimh. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
hi, I read thru it briefly, it looks like they have improved the self discharge curve with regards to remaining capacity of the battery. but its only 10% improvement after 30 days, a 20% improvement after 6 months and an infine improvement after 9 months because a standard nimh would be dead. Any improvement is good of course, but nothing to get too excited about unless you dont use your batteries for a long long time after stopping all charging. I trickle my spares all the time on stanby, mine have essentially 100% capacity whenever I need them. These batteries would be of no help in my case, but your mileage may vary. From what I have read, the best way to keep your spare nimh ready to go at any moment is to pulse charge them, that is you put a timer on a trickle charger and give them a low current top off charge for an hour a day. I have found by experimentation that a continuouse very low charge works too but it prolly degrades the overall life of the cells, I really dont know for sure, but its certainly nothing major because I seem to be getting same lifetime on my nimh batteries even with the trickling. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:15 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 13:56, Pasvorn Boonmark wrote: JC, There are a couple of paper about this. I'm not technical enough to understand all of it. http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/ARTICLES/Teraoka_Art icle_EN.pdf I think there is also a couple of papers describing the technology. Let me see if I can get additional info. Pasvorn, you are wasting your breath. He's right and we are all wrong. He will assure you of that. I don't know why I even let myself get sucked into this sort of thread. I should be smarter than this. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
An interesting blog with considerable tests and a review of the eneloops, a form of NiMH battery. With some input by Sanyo. http://www.stefanv.com/electronics/sanyo_eneloop.html Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com gallery.me.com/jomac web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html On Dec 22, 2008, at 15:11 , JC OConnell wrote: hi, I read thru it briefly, it looks like they have improved the self discharge curve with regards to remaining capacity of the battery. but its only 10% improvement after 30 days, a 20% improvement after 6 months and an infine improvement after 9 months because a standard nimh would be dead. Any improvement is good of course, but nothing to get too excited about unless you dont use your batteries for a long long time after stopping all charging. I trickle my spares all the time on stanby, mine have essentially 100% capacity whenever I need them. These batteries would be of no help in my case, but your mileage may vary. From what I have read, the best way to keep your spare nimh ready to go at any moment is to pulse charge them, that is you put a timer on a trickle charger and give them a low current top off charge for an hour a day. I have found by experimentation that a continuouse very low charge works too but it prolly degrades the overall life of the cells, I really dont know for sure, but its certainly nothing major because I seem to be getting same lifetime on my nimh batteries even with the trickling. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Pasvorn: The material used on the Cathode is the 'Metal Hydride' part of the equation, it's half of the chemistry in and of itself. -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 2:21 PM, Pasvorn Boonmark pasv...@boonmark.net wrote: All,. JC is correct. The chemistry is the same on all of the NiMH. The different in this hybrid type -- accroding to Sanyo's paper), is the material that they use for cathode. This supposes to reduce the decomposition which causes self-discharge. I have been using Eneloop for the last 18 monts in my DL. This has been the biggest improvement for my DSLR usage. Previously, when I grab my DL, I will have to put a new set of batteries in, and get a set from trickle charge. Now, I can just leave one set in the camera, and one extra set in my bag. On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 10:57 AM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: The chemistry is the same on all of them, thats why they are all called nimh. jco -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
The only white paper I can find is in german. Basically, they changed the seperator material between the anode and cathode half-cells and use a lattice cathode design to reduce cathode breakdown, thus reducing self-discharge while maintaining the basic chemistry of the NiMh. They may be using a different rare-earth alloy in the cathde as well (there are several different cathode materials that can be used as part of a NiMh cell, all are rare earth alloys matched with their complementary Hydride. The better performing ones are more expensive). -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:39 PM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: do you have any technical papers or links explaining what is chemically different about these eneloops even though they are still considered nimh? Im not saying your wrong, it just doesnt make sense to call them nimh if they have different or additional chemistry to me... JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:10 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 11:38, JC OConnell wrote: nimh technology is nimh technolgy, I havent read anything anwhere that there are different/special characteristics for any of these cells... Well, good morning and time to start reading the news again. Eneloops are very different from standard NiMH. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Some batteries are referred to by exact chemistry (Like NiCd), others (most Notably NiMH) refer to a number of closely related chemistries with similar performance.The differentiator is if the name mentions both Anode and Cathode materials (IE Nickel Cadmium vs Nickel Metal Hydride) -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:54 PM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: thats absurd batteries need to be referred to by chemistry nicad alkaline li-ion lead acid carbon zinc etc etc if you find someting good or like fine, but dont call it a best nimh if its really something else (if it is something else, maybe nimh has had some major technical breakthru, but it a big secret so far). JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:14 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 13:48, JC OConnell wrote: if there is some other chemistry in a hybrid battery you are referring to, then it not really a nimh battery is it? If it works better, doesn't self-discharge more than 30% over a YEAR, charges in ANY NiMH-compatible charger, and generally makes a rechargeable-battery device pleasant rather than aggravating to use again, then I guess I just don't give a fig about whether or not it is really nimh. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Dario Bonazza wrote: Hybrios are far more diffused here in Italy than Eneloops, due to better distribution. However, the Hybrios could be just rebadged Eneloops. Looks like a complicated story -- perfect for mentioning on PDML. :-) This long thread on a forum inhabited by certified battery geeks ... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=192345 ... suggests that the U-H may in fact be either a rebadged Eneloop or a clone of it (licensed or otherwise) made in China, or both! (Sanyo Eneloops are made only in Japan.) They discuss whether there's a significant difference between the Chinese-origin and Japanese Eneloop-like cells. They also mention that both the Sony CycleEnergy and the Duracell Pre-Charged (but only if made in Japan) are actually rebadged Eneloops. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
the key thing is that the general electrical characteristics of the cells are known when you specify nicad, nimh, lead acid, etc. the only thing apparently different about these nimh in question is the very long term self discharge. the main parameters of them like charging, voltage, discharge voltage curve under load, etc would be the same as any other nimh from what I read. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Adam Maas Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:28 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Some batteries are referred to by exact chemistry (Like NiCd), others (most Notably NiMH) refer to a number of closely related chemistries with similar performance.The differentiator is if the name mentions both Anode and Cathode materials (IE Nickel Cadmium vs Nickel Metal Hydride) -Adam On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 5:54 PM, JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net wrote: thats absurd batteries need to be referred to by chemistry nicad alkaline li-ion lead acid carbon zinc etc etc if you find someting good or like fine, but dont call it a best nimh if its really something else (if it is something else, maybe nimh has had some major technical breakthru, but it a big secret so far). JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:14 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 13:48, JC OConnell wrote: if there is some other chemistry in a hybrid battery you are referring to, then it not really a nimh battery is it? If it works better, doesn't self-discharge more than 30% over a YEAR, charges in ANY NiMH-compatible charger, and generally makes a rechargeable-battery device pleasant rather than aggravating to use again, then I guess I just don't give a fig about whether or not it is really nimh. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
is the out of the package 80% charge that important in the real world or is it a marketing scheme. For me, I would rather just pay less for nimh that dont have a charge when new or dont hold charges for 3-9 months, I couldnt care less unless it was a free feature maybe. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:31 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? Dario Bonazza wrote: Hybrios are far more diffused here in Italy than Eneloops, due to better distribution. However, the Hybrios could be just rebadged Eneloops. Looks like a complicated story -- perfect for mentioning on PDML. :-) This long thread on a forum inhabited by certified battery geeks ... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=192345 ... suggests that the U-H may in fact be either a rebadged Eneloop or a clone of it (licensed or otherwise) made in China, or both! (Sanyo Eneloops are made only in Japan.) They discuss whether there's a significant difference between the Chinese-origin and Japanese Eneloop-like cells. They also mention that both the Sony CycleEnergy and the Duracell Pre-Charged (but only if made in Japan) are actually rebadged Eneloops. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
JC OConnell wrote: is the out of the package 80% charge that important in the real world or is it a marketing scheme. It's a side-effect of the very low self-discharge characteristic, and is not at all important to me. I agree that the charged when new thing is a marketing scheme, but it's quite a reasonable one because you can't sell low self-discharge to Joe Lunchbox or Aunt Tenna. And it would appear to be working because now Sony and Duracell are reselling Eneloops under their own name. The crucial aspects of Eneloops that make them game-changers for me are the afore-mentioned low self-discharge, and the very flat voltage over time discharge curve together with reasonable capacity. The Eneloop's 2000 mAh capacity is admittedly less than the 2700mAh cells available, but they work better in actual practice (at least in my K100D Super) because the voltage droops fairly early in the discharge cycle of a typical Energizer or even the Ansmann-badged cells that came with my charger such that I only get about 200-300 shots before the camera quits. I get 800-900 shots with the Eneloops under similar conditions. With the low self-discharge I can charge the Eneloops, pop them into the camera and then forget about them until the low-batt indicator appears. I stuff everything into my kit-bag until I need it -- even if several weeks go by before I suddenly need to grab the bag and dash out somewhere to shoot. I never worry at all about whether I charged up batteries the night before. For me, I would rather just pay less for nimh that dont have a charge when new or dont hold charges for 3-9 months, I couldnt care less unless it was a free feature maybe. I have shopped around and bought Eneloops at the same price as Energizers, so yes, it is (or can be) a free feature. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
DID YOU READ MY EARLIER POST? regular nimh batteries dont self discharge overnight or in days. These batteries you like are only significantly better after a month or so and dramatically better after like 6-9 months. If you think you are getting some edge in days or weeks over conventional nimh batteries you are mistaken. Do you really charge your batteries and not use them for over a month or go 6-9 months before using them? I dont. I have three sets. I fully charge one set, put in camera. if and when that dies, I have two other sets fully charged ready to go at any time on a trickle charger. I dont need those kind of batteries and I doubt you do either unless you actually only have one set of battteries and like to charge them and then not use the camera for weeks or months. come on, get practical. Those feature are of very little real world value for the average photo guy. Charged in the package? Who cares, stay charged for 9 months, who cares, I use my camera every few days, not every few years. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:07 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: is the out of the package 80% charge that important in the real world or is it a marketing scheme. It's a side-effect of the very low self-discharge characteristic, and is not at all important to me. I agree that the charged when new thing is a marketing scheme, but it's quite a reasonable one because you can't sell low self-discharge to Joe Lunchbox or Aunt Tenna. And it would appear to be working because now Sony and Duracell are reselling Eneloops under their own name. The crucial aspects of Eneloops that make them game-changers for me are the afore-mentioned low self-discharge, and the very flat voltage over time discharge curve together with reasonable capacity. The Eneloop's 2000 mAh capacity is admittedly less than the 2700mAh cells available, but they work better in actual practice (at least in my K100D Super) because the voltage droops fairly early in the discharge cycle of a typical Energizer or even the Ansmann-badged cells that came with my charger such that I only get about 200-300 shots before the camera quits. I get 800-900 shots with the Eneloops under similar conditions. With the low self-discharge I can charge the Eneloops, pop them into the camera and then forget about them until the low-batt indicator appears. I stuff everything into my kit-bag until I need it -- even if several weeks go by before I suddenly need to grab the bag and dash out somewhere to shoot. I never worry at all about whether I charged up batteries the night before. For me, I would rather just pay less for nimh that dont have a charge when new or dont hold charges for 3-9 months, I couldnt care less unless it was a free feature maybe. I have shopped around and bought Eneloops at the same price as Energizers, so yes, it is (or can be) a free feature. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
2008/12/23 JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net: Do you really charge your batteries and not use them for over a month or go 6-9 months before using them? I could easily go a month without using my NiMH. I just replaced my aging collection of standard NiMH's with Eneloops. Straight out of the packet I easily got an 1.5 hours worth of heavy flash usage out of them they are still going strong a week later. Instead of raging speculating as to their worth, get a set and see the difference. DS -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
I suggest you go look at the self discharge curve showing capacity remaining vs time. to summerize in case you cant understand the chart: I read thru it briefly, it looks like they have improved the self discharge curve with regards to remaining capacity of the battery. but its only 10% improvement after 30 days, a 20% improvement after 6 months and an infine improvement after 9 months because a standard nimh would be dead. SO, if you go a whole month without using your camera, your batteries only have 10% more charge left than standard nimh, I would not call that a game changer I call that marketing hype if one month is you reference. Sure they are way better at 6-9 months with respect to self discharge, but who in the hell charges their batteries and then lets them sit 6-9 months before using them at all? Not me. I use my charged batteries within minutes or days, weeks at the very outside most. What you have there is a feature that never gets used in the real world IMHO. That kind of feature is never going to be called a game changer for digital cameras in my book. might be real good if you have a power outage for 6-9 MONTHS, your flashlight would still work! JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:07 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: is the out of the package 80% charge that important in the real world or is it a marketing scheme. It's a side-effect of the very low self-discharge characteristic, and is not at all important to me. I agree that the charged when new thing is a marketing scheme, but it's quite a reasonable one because you can't sell low self-discharge to Joe Lunchbox or Aunt Tenna. And it would appear to be working because now Sony and Duracell are reselling Eneloops under their own name. The crucial aspects of Eneloops that make them game-changers for me are the afore-mentioned low self-discharge, and the very flat voltage over time discharge curve together with reasonable capacity. The Eneloop's 2000 mAh capacity is admittedly less than the 2700mAh cells available, but they work better in actual practice (at least in my K100D Super) because the voltage droops fairly early in the discharge cycle of a typical Energizer or even the Ansmann-badged cells that came with my charger such that I only get about 200-300 shots before the camera quits. I get 800-900 shots with the Eneloops under similar conditions. With the low self-discharge I can charge the Eneloops, pop them into the camera and then forget about them until the low-batt indicator appears. I stuff everything into my kit-bag until I need it -- even if several weeks go by before I suddenly need to grab the bag and dash out somewhere to shoot. I never worry at all about whether I charged up batteries the night before. For me, I would rather just pay less for nimh that dont have a charge when new or dont hold charges for 3-9 months, I couldnt care less unless it was a free feature maybe. I have shopped around and bought Eneloops at the same price as Energizers, so yes, it is (or can be) a free feature. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
instead of you using your non scientific methods of proving how good they are, read the data sheet on them, its only a 10% difference in capacity remaining after a long 30 days. Thats hardly enough to notice let alone get exicted about. I dont watse my money on features that are of no value to me and the LONG TERM slower discharge of those batteries is not the same as short term slower discharge which would be meaningful but they dont do that do they? READ the self discharge curve and THEN get back to me and discuss the merits of those batteries. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of David Savage Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 8:48 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? 2008/12/23 JC OConnell hifis...@gate.net: Do you really charge your batteries and not use them for over a month or go 6-9 months before using them? I could easily go a month without using my NiMH. I just replaced my aging collection of standard NiMH's with Eneloops. Straight out of the packet I easily got an 1.5 hours worth of heavy flash usage out of them they are still going strong a week later. Instead of raging speculating as to their worth, get a set and see the difference. DS -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
JC OConnell wrote: Do you really charge your batteries and not use them for over a month or go 6-9 months before using them? My uses are mixed. The PS often sits idle for a month or two before suddenly getting called into action. The Pentax gear usually only parks for a week or two (I'm more of a weekend road-warrier). I have active-noise-reducing headphones (Sennheiser) that will go for months with a couple of AAA's in them before I need the active circuitry to be powered. I dont. I have three sets. I fully charge one set, put in camera. if and when that dies, I have two other sets fully charged ready to go at any time on a trickle charger. That's a good way to go, though it requires a few chargers. I dont need those kind of batteries and I doubt you do either unless you actually only have one set of battteries and like to charge them and then not use the camera for weeks or months. I have one good charger that I paid $80 for. I'm not going to buy several more, one for each battery set I have on trickle charge constantly. I have several sets of cells, in-camera and ready for use; in-kit-bag and ready for swapping with the in-camera ones. OK, we've identified that my usage and yours vary such that you have no need for these cells. I like 'em, they can be used like regular dry cells (some people put them in TV remotes), they work for me. They apparently suit a few other people too. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:07, Bruce Walker wrote: With the low self-discharge I can charge the Eneloops, pop them into the camera and then forget about them until the low-batt indicator appears. I stuff everything into my kit-bag until I need it -- even if several weeks go by before I suddenly need to grab the bag and dash out somewhere to shoot. I never worry at all about whether I charged up batteries the night before. That's precisely their benefit. None of this oh, wait, leave 'em in the trickle-charger so they're ready to go nonsense which other batteries require. Instead: charge 'em and throw them in the bag. Leave the bag in the hallway for one or two weeks: it doesn't matter. Pick up bag, start shooting: No problem. At $11.99 for a set of 4, well worth the dough. Regardless of chemistry. Could be stuffed with rat poop for all I care, it just doesn't matter to me. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:31, JC OConnell wrote: DID YOU READ MY EARLIER POST? WE ALL DID. CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:56, JC OConnell wrote: I suggest you go look at the self discharge curve showing capacity remaining vs time. I suggest you TRY IT rather than quoting statistics and charts. Unlike you, others are quoting real-life experience. Can you? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Sorry to say, but you are a lost soul on the matter. As soon as you pull YOUR batteries out of the charger they start losing charge just like a regular nimh battery starts losing charge. The difference with yours is that after a MONTH yours have about 10% more charge than a regular battery would but YOURS or a regular nimh would both have way less than a full charge. The main advantage of YOURS is that after 3-6-9 months they hold charge much better but after one month they are only 10$ better but STILL partially discharged. By keeping mine tricking in charger till I need them, MINE have a FULL CHARGE WHEN I NEED TO USE THEM. the only advantage of yours is if you go many months without chargeing them, for the first month - its only 10 PERCENT less discharge, thats not much dude, that aint a game changer, thats minor performance difference. And to those who say they charge batteries and leave em in there rarely used cameras for months before they get to them, its not only not recommended in the event of a cell failure/leakage, its a totally different applicaion, for those situations you are probably better off using alkalines, they are cheap nowadays. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:23 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:07, Bruce Walker wrote: With the low self-discharge I can charge the Eneloops, pop them into the camera and then forget about them until the low-batt indicator appears. I stuff everything into my kit-bag until I need it -- even if several weeks go by before I suddenly need to grab the bag and dash out somewhere to shoot. I never worry at all about whether I charged up batteries the night before. That's precisely their benefit. None of this oh, wait, leave 'em in the trickle-charger so they're ready to go nonsense which other batteries require. Instead: charge 'em and throw them in the bag. Leave the bag in the hallway for one or two weeks: it doesn't matter. Pick up bag, start shooting: No problem. At $11.99 for a set of 4, well worth the dough. Regardless of chemistry. Could be stuffed with rat poop for all I care, it just doesn't matter to me. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
youre as ass.. if the company itself does all the scientific testing for you and produces a curve clearly showing the characteristics of the batteries, you would have to be a total moron to think your try 'em logic proves anything. Acutally it does, it proves your a moron. I dont need to go to Alaska to know theres snow there, and if that battery company shows me how those batteries perform, I'm not going to buy them to prove otherwise. Grow up young man. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:24 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:56, JC OConnell wrote: I suggest you go look at the self discharge curve showing capacity remaining vs time. I suggest you TRY IT rather than quoting statistics and charts. Unlike you, others are quoting real-life experience. Can you? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
Pardon my last post but its very annoying when I get the old you havent tried 'em so you cant/dont know argument. I come from a electical engineering background of over 30 years and I know how to read a simple self discharge vs. time curve, and I know what a scientific test is, I sometimes forget not everybody else does. Go look at the curve, in the first month there is very little difference with your batteries. They have a significant LONG TERM storage advantage but after a month its only about 10% difference. It real terms thats not much and I wouldnt want to do that ( allow 30 days discharge) with YOURS or MINE. I want a full charge when I switch sets, not a partially depleted battery. If you have to give up rated capacity ( did someone post that?) to get that dumb feature its a terrible trade to make unless of course you are somehow locked into having to charge months in advance for some god awful reason. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of JC OConnell Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:49 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? youre as ass.. if the company itself does all the scientific testing for you and produces a curve clearly showing the characteristics of the batteries, you would have to be a total moron to think your try 'em logic proves anything. Acutally it does, it proves your a moron. I dont need to go to Alaska to know theres snow there, and if that battery company shows me how those batteries perform, I'm not going to buy them to prove otherwise. Grow up young man. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Charles Robinson Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:24 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:56, JC OConnell wrote: I suggest you go look at the self discharge curve showing capacity remaining vs time. I suggest you TRY IT rather than quoting statistics and charts. Unlike you, others are quoting real-life experience. Can you? -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
As a public service I can post a schematic of a 8 cell AA NIMH trickle charger you can build in about 30 minutes for under $10. All you need is a wall wart power pack of sufficient DC voltage/current, two 4 cell battery holders, and a resistor of the correct value and wattage. About the simplest project ever. A six year old could build one. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: Do you really charge your batteries and not use them for over a month or go 6-9 months before using them? My uses are mixed. The PS often sits idle for a month or two before suddenly getting called into action. The Pentax gear usually only parks for a week or two (I'm more of a weekend road-warrier). I have active-noise-reducing headphones (Sennheiser) that will go for months with a couple of AAA's in them before I need the active circuitry to be powered. I dont. I have three sets. I fully charge one set, put in camera. if and when that dies, I have two other sets fully charged ready to go at any time on a trickle charger. That's a good way to go, though it requires a few chargers. I dont need those kind of batteries and I doubt you do either unless you actually only have one set of battteries and like to charge them and then not use the camera for weeks or months. I have one good charger that I paid $80 for. I'm not going to buy several more, one for each battery set I have on trickle charge constantly. I have several sets of cells, in-camera and ready for use; in-kit-bag and ready for swapping with the in-camera ones. OK, we've identified that my usage and yours vary such that you have no need for these cells. I like 'em, they can be used like regular dry cells (some people put them in TV remotes), they work for me. They apparently suit a few other people too. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
And for another $10 you can buy a AC timer at walmart to run it only an hour a day for the ultimate fully charged batteries always at the ready station. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of JC OConnell Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:04 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? As a public service I can post a schematic of a 8 cell AA NIMH trickle charger you can build in about 30 minutes for under $10. All you need is a wall wart power pack of sufficient DC voltage/current, two 4 cell battery holders, and a resistor of the correct value and wattage. About the simplest project ever. A six year old could build one. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Bruce Walker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 9:19 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? JC OConnell wrote: Do you really charge your batteries and not use them for over a month or go 6-9 months before using them? My uses are mixed. The PS often sits idle for a month or two before suddenly getting called into action. The Pentax gear usually only parks for a week or two (I'm more of a weekend road-warrier). I have active-noise-reducing headphones (Sennheiser) that will go for months with a couple of AAA's in them before I need the active circuitry to be powered. I dont. I have three sets. I fully charge one set, put in camera. if and when that dies, I have two other sets fully charged ready to go at any time on a trickle charger. That's a good way to go, though it requires a few chargers. I dont need those kind of batteries and I doubt you do either unless you actually only have one set of battteries and like to charge them and then not use the camera for weeks or months. I have one good charger that I paid $80 for. I'm not going to buy several more, one for each battery set I have on trickle charge constantly. I have several sets of cells, in-camera and ready for use; in-kit-bag and ready for swapping with the in-camera ones. OK, we've identified that my usage and yours vary such that you have no need for these cells. I like 'em, they can be used like regular dry cells (some people put them in TV remotes), they work for me. They apparently suit a few other people too. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:01 , JC OConnell wrote: its only about 10% difference. It real terms thats not much Tell that to the moon astronauts. Or an architect. A chemist. To you, not much. To others, maybe more. Beat the drum - elsewhere. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian gallery.me.com/jomac web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
You call 10% more charge LEFT after 30 days a lot of energy, it aint. AND if hes got a smaller capacity battery because of the feature ( thats not clear to me from the posts) he actully has LESS energy after a month than a higher capacity regular nimh. Take that to the moon! JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Joseph McAllister Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:22 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:01 , JC OConnell wrote: its only about 10% difference. It real terms thats not much Tell that to the moon astronauts. Or an architect. A chemist. To you, not much. To others, maybe more. Beat the drum - elsewhere. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian gallery.me.com/jomac web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom?
It just occured to me, just because these batteries in question have a better LONG term ( but not short term ) self discharge rate, doesnt mean that other key specifications of these batteries were not compromised to get that feature/parameter. To make a fair judgement about these batteries you would need to compare all the specifications of them, not just long term self discharge rates. It could be an intentional tradeoff and what was traded off was more important than what was gained for some or most users. Beware of optimized parameters in general. Im not saying this is the case, but it could be if you dont know for sure. JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of JC OConnell Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:42 PM To: 'Pentax-Discuss Mail List' Subject: RE: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? You call 10% more charge LEFT after 30 days a lot of energy, it aint. AND if hes got a smaller capacity battery because of the feature ( thats not clear to me from the posts) he actully has LESS energy after a month than a higher capacity regular nimh. Take that to the moon! JC O'Connell hifis...@gate.net -Original Message- From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Joseph McAllister Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 10:22 PM To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List Subject: Re: rechargeable batteries - any wisdom? On Dec 22, 2008, at 19:01 , JC OConnell wrote: its only about 10% difference. It real terms thats not much Tell that to the moon astronauts. Or an architect. A chemist. To you, not much. To others, maybe more. Beat the drum - elsewhere. Joseph McAllister Pentaxian gallery.me.com/jomac web.me.com/jomac/show.me/Blog/Blog.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
