Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. I am a long term user of PostgreSQL and I think it suffers from a lack of a marketing department. If you have the best restaurant in town, but no one eats there, what's the point? We all correspond and work on PostgreSQL to make it the best we can. To create something good that people can use. One of the prime parts of that sentence is people can use. Like it or not, that means getting the word out. MySQL is an appalling database, but people use it, a lot! Why? Because they really market it. They push it. They craft deceptive benchmarks which show it is better. PostgreSQL doesn't even need to be deceptive. My company is working on a Suite of applications and PostgreSQL is a key component. We will be doing our own local marketing, but it it would help if the PostgreSQL core understood that a clean professional looking website, geared toward end users would make a big difference. Furthermore, I think it would be very rewarding for everyone involved if we could get some of the street cred that MySQL has. PostgreSQL *is* a better database in almost every way. If MySQL virtually owns the open source mind share for SQL databases, it is our fault. Peter, Tom, Bruce, et al. you guys do a great job, IMHO PostgreSQL isn't lacking in anything technical, as of 7.2, with non-locking vacuum, I would consider it a viable database with no caveats. 7.3 is superior. A pure Win32 version would be awesome. I just think that if we could get people equally talented at spreading the word and making the noise, it would make a big difference in the number of users. More users eventually translates to more funding or development. Wouldn't you like to say to someone: I contribute the PostgreSQL project and have them say Cool instead of What's that? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Then you will have what you want. You will be used by a limited number of developers who understand the idea. And you will have ugly dialogues like that. This sounds a bit like 'what would happen if all population of the world were male'. Or all were developers. You should accept the fact that you never have developers on the front line. Even if you take Microsoft - I even do not know the name of the chief software engineer (do not tell me this is Mr. Gates, he is not - there is a guy with a beard, the third richest man in the world or so). Or if you take Oracle - you have Larry. Larry is not a developer. Or even with MySQL - you see the marketing machine. Even with Linux - I have not seen Linus in the press for ages. Or Alan. All 'gurus' are hidden. You take the hype - the hype of Bill or the hype of Linus. Or the charming and successfully arogant Lary. And make a product out of it and a market. As long as the developers of PostgreSQL want to be on the front line - it will be what it is - a fine database used by the people who have the clue to talk to and understand developers. An uncut diamond. I actually do not understand why is the whole cry - why not somebody who has REALLY the marketing in his/her heart - does not make an open source amazingly beautiful and powerful web site. You do not have to ask Bruce for that. You get BRICOLAGE - it is free, and it is good - salon.com runs on it. You inspire some great designer to do the desing (do not ask a developer to do that, otherwise a designer might want to do some code and PostgreSQL is lost). Call Mario Garcia (www.mariogarcia.com) - he will be proud to help. And you take ten fanatic advocacy people to fill in success stories and case studies. News. Whatever. It does not take that much. It take strong individuals that lead. However, some people on HACKERS find special pleasure to kill all initiative. I do not see this for first time... Iavor www.pgaccess.org ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Bruce Momjian wrote: Iavor Raytchev wrote: I actually do not understand why is the whole cry - why not somebody who has REALLY the marketing in his/her heart - does not make an open source amazingly beautiful and powerful web site. You do not have to ask Bruce for that. You get BRICOLAGE - it is free, and it is good - salon.com runs on it. You inspire some great designer to do the desing (do not ask a developer to do that, otherwise a designer might want to do some code and PostgreSQL is lost). Call Mario Garcia (www.mariogarcia.com) - he will be proud to help. And you take ten fanatic advocacy people to fill in success stories and case studies. News. Whatever. It does not take that much. It take strong individuals that lead. However, some people on HACKERS find special pleasure to kill all initiative. I do not see this for first time... I think we have gotten over that hurdle and _most_ agree marketing is a priority. I am sorry. Seems I came too late. I did it out of my good feelings. Iavor ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Iavor Raytchev wrote: I actually do not understand why is the whole cry - why not somebody who has REALLY the marketing in his/her heart - does not make an open source amazingly beautiful and powerful web site. You do not have to ask Bruce for that. You get BRICOLAGE - it is free, and it is good - salon.com runs on it. You inspire some great designer to do the desing (do not ask a developer to do that, otherwise a designer might want to do some code and PostgreSQL is lost). Call Mario Garcia (www.mariogarcia.com) - he will be proud to help. And you take ten fanatic advocacy people to fill in success stories and case studies. News. Whatever. It does not take that much. It take strong individuals that lead. However, some people on HACKERS find special pleasure to kill all initiative. I do not see this for first time... I think we have gotten over that hurdle and _most_ agree marketing is a priority. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Thomas O'Connell wrote: I was surprised, for instance, to receive a non-list email announcing the release of the software but then to have to wait for days actually to see it show up on the official (or even the advocacy) website in a news item. Even now it is not listed at PostgreSQL, Inc. ack, an oversight, I can assure you ... I have proded the apporpriate ppl for this one :( ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Tom Lane wrote: I tend to agree with Peter. Not that we don't need a marketing presence; we do (I think Great Bridge's marketing efforts are sorely missed). But the point he is making is that the pgsql mailing lists go to people who are generally unimpressed by marketing fluff. And they're already sold on PG anyway. The right way to handle this next time is to generate a PR-style press release to send to outside contacts, but to do our more traditional, technically-oriented announcement on the mailing lists. Agreed ... we tried to do 'two-in-one' on this one and it didn't quite work out as well as it could have ... next time, we'll go with both methods ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Sat, 7 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the minority on this one. Kinda depends who you're asking now, doesn't it? I happen to agree with him, but as long as you're only going to involve a selected few in the opinion gathering you can pretty much get the answer you want to get. I can survey 100 people and get the opposite result putting you in the minority. Me, I think Peter went to the 'far left', while the press release went to the 'far right' (or vice versa) ... i think Tom sum'd it up best that we should have had one for each 'market' we were trying to address ... definitely something to keep in mind and strive for for the next release ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the minority on this one. Kinda depends who you're asking now, doesn't it? I happen to agree with him, but as long as you're only going to involve a selected few in the opinion gathering you can pretty much get the answer you want to get. I can survey 100 people and get the opposite result putting you in the minority. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
As someone who exists mainly as an active user (and part-time advocate/documentation tweaker), I have found the release of PostgreSQL 7.3 to be disappointing. The ensuing pseudo-flamewar on the various lists has been similarly disappointing. I was surprised, for instance, to receive a non-list email announcing the release of the software but then to have to wait for days actually to see it show up on the official (or even the advocacy) website in a news item. Even now it is not listed at PostgreSQL, Inc. Consider the pieces of the puzzle here: 1) an official website (http://www.postgresql.org/) 2) an advocacy website (http://advocacy.postgresql.org/) 3) official mailing lists 4) a separate email database 5) a developers' website (http://developers.postgresql.org/) 6) an official ftp site (ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/) 7) mirror websites 8) mirror ftp sites 9) a corporate website (http://www.pgsql.com/) While I have remained impressed with the software itself, the organization of these pieces has left much to be desired for the duration of my involvement as an end user. As someone who works in a small startup company, I am a frequent witness to both the advantages and disadvantages of the lack of a strong benevolent dictatorship in the form of management. I think one of the core problems with the advocacy and presentation of the PostgreSQL project is the fact that it has been a developer-centric project for quite some time, and that process, while there are drivers, does not tend to affect much other than the code. There does not seem to be a single, driving vision (or even a Board or consensus-based vision) behind the public face of PostgreSQL. Granted, when a project is entirely volunteer-based, the management and development are loose. I've noticed that in many such projects, web design and maintenance become very low priority, especially when left to groups of hackers. Witness GNU, Debian, and, I would say PostgreSQL: extremely spare official websites often intimidating and/or difficult for the newbie. I've wanted to see a bit more structure given to the PostgreSQL website, the release process, and various other portions of the project for quite some time, but often it seems as though such a structure would not even be welcome. As someone who has not had time to be a true developer on the project, I'm content to wait for the missing features I'd like to see. Still, I'm hoping that developers and advocates alike realize that the release process and these lists are in the public domain, and the way business is conducted affects the perceptions of users as much as the quality of the software or any amount of marketing. In any case, thanks for all the hard work. I actually thought the text of the email release I received was good and am working on the upgrade process now in my own environment. -tfo In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Lane) wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the minority on this one. I tend to agree with Peter. Not that we don't need a marketing presence; we do (I think Great Bridge's marketing efforts are sorely missed). But the point he is making is that the pgsql mailing lists go to people who are generally unimpressed by marketing fluff. And they're already sold on PG anyway. The right way to handle this next time is to generate a PR-style press release to send to outside contacts, but to do our more traditional, technically-oriented announcement on the mailing lists. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is unfortunate that it is almost impossible to have a marketing group without there being some wilful blinders involved; it's vital for there to be some technical involvement in the marketing group to pop whatever bubbles they grow that are woefully wrong. But even if it operates with some occasional lack of /real/ vision, it's necessary to have a marketing group... And, for the most part, those that are -advocacy are techies that wish to contribute as they can, but don't have the knowledge/time to dedicate to actual code ... Bruce is kinda quiet, but both he and I are on that list, and I read (and imagine Bruce does to) pretty much everything that goes through ... but, again, these aren't 'marketing droids' we have over there, but techies that are using the software and have an idea of her limitations and benefits ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Philip Warner wrote: At 05:48 PM 4/12/2002 -0800, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Lack of marketing is one of Postgres's major problems. What are the consequences of the problem? Well, I'd have to say the major one is a difficult in increasing our user base, as ppl like MySQL are making sure they are heard whenever they add something new that we've had for years ... If that is what we want, then fine. But I don't want to see any part of the development effort distorted or the existing user base inconvenienced in an effort to purely gain that market share. I usually associate increased marketing with decreased quality, and I think the causality works *both* ways. That is what we want, and the efforts in no way are meant to undermine/distort anything ... go to archives.postgresql.org and read through the threads to get a feel ... its not a closed/hidden list by any means ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is unfortunate that it is almost impossible to have a marketing group without there being some wilful blinders involved; it's vital for there to be some technical involvement in the marketing group to pop whatever bubbles they grow that are woefully wrong. But even if it operates with some occasional lack of /real/ vision, it's necessary to have a marketing group... And, for the most part, those that are -advocacy are techies that wish to contribute as they can, but don't have the knowledge/time to dedicate to actual code ... Bruce is kinda quiet, but both he and I are on that list, and I read (and imagine Bruce does to) pretty much everything that goes through ... but, again, these aren't 'marketing droids' we have over there, but techies that are using the software and have an idea of her limitations and benefits ... Yes, I have been way too quiet. I am trying to carve out time before starting on 7.4 work, but it seems stuff keeps coming up. I have updated the developers page with company names, and Vince is going to integrate that. My next step is to split out my advocacy mailbox and start shooting out content for the advocacy site. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the minority on this one. I tend to agree with Peter. Not that we don't need a marketing presence; we do (I think Great Bridge's marketing efforts are sorely missed). But the point he is making is that the pgsql mailing lists go to people who are generally unimpressed by marketing fluff. And they're already sold on PG anyway. The right way to handle this next time is to generate a PR-style press release to send to outside contacts, but to do our more traditional, technically-oriented announcement on the mailing lists. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
-Original Message- From: Peter Eisentraut [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 December 2002 23:34 To: Justin Clift Cc: Dave Page; Marc G. Fournier; Bruce Momjian; PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces Justin Clift writes: Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. Why don't we just shut down the regular web site. Clearly it's not considered adequate anymore. Strangely I was just thinking the same thing. If all the info is on advocacy, then what exactly will be left on the main site? Idocs? I was sort of under the impression that the site reshuffle was happening in a top down manner anyway - start with the portal, then sort out the less-immediately-visible lower bits. I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Dave Page wrote: snip Strangely I was just thinking the same thing. If all the info is on advocacy, then what exactly will be left on the main site? Idocs? Good point, and worth thinking about then. I was sort of under the impression that the site reshuffle was happening in a top down manner anyway - start with the portal, then sort out the less-immediately-visible lower bits. I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. Ok then, what do you suggest? :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift Regards, Dave. -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
-Original Message- From: Justin Clift [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 04 December 2002 10:59 To: Dave Page Cc: Peter Eisentraut; Marc G. Fournier; Bruce Momjian; PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. Ok then, what do you suggest? Not sure, but we do need to define the roles of the groups and keep them seperate as much as possible otherwise some of us are gonna overload. I'm sure Vince will have something to say about this, but it seems to me that advocacy should define what the urghmarketing/urgh plan should be, and should look like, then the www people should implement it. Having the www people maintaining most sites, then the advocacy people doing their own thing seperately is a recipe for trouble. Think about how this would work in a commercial organisation - you would not have the web team sitting in on all the marketing meetings. We also have the advantage that our marketing people (== advocacy) are technically knowledgable and will not make idiots of themselves on a regular basis by asking us for impossible things - unlike your regular run-of-the-mill marketing drones :-) Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* I understood it was intentional so comments wouldn't have done any good. Anything is only as intentional as nobody making constructive critisms of it ... e, that was major bad english ... not part of solution, you are part of problem sort of thing... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* And how should we have guessed that release management is now done by the advocacy group? While you're out advocating, don't forget the existing users. It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Dave Page wrote: snip I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. The only reason for the download page not having a list of mirrors is due to not having done it yet. So as to not recreate the wheel, or, at least, get the wheel properly rolling, can we get that download page redirected to the one that does list the mirrors? :) I liked Greg(?)'s ideas, but I don't see it as being implemented overnight :) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. Why don't we just shut down the regular web site. Clearly it's not considered adequate anymore. As of yet, the new portal isn't ready yet ... and the adequacy of the existing site isn't so much a problem, but maintainability of it ... according to Vince, trying to add anything to it is virtually impossible :( ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. And I'll pre-empt *that* with the volume of email isn't changing, only the ability to filter that email ... the purpose of the -advocacy list is to focus on how to better market the software ... not through stuff like advertising, but how do we provide information to debunk alot of the out-dated myths that still float around ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* I understood it was intentional so comments wouldn't have done any good. Anything is only as intentional as nobody making constructive critisms of it ... e, that was major bad english ... not part of solution, you are part of problem sort of thing... That may be how you understood it, but not how I understood it. There appears to be an incremental takeover occurring. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Marc G. Fournier wrote: snip So as to not recreate the wheel, or, at least, get the wheel properly rolling, can we get that download page redirected to the one that does list the mirrors? :) Yep. Would the best way to do this be changing the wording to say something like: PostgreSQL can be downloaded as source code from any of the many mirror sites: With a link after it directing to somewhere that gives the list. The present www.postgresql.org with the list of mirrors would probably be adequate, but it'll need to be a different url than the straight www.postgresql.org as that's going to change as soon as the new portal is in place. Does this sound like a workable approach for now? Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift I liked Greg(?)'s ideas, but I don't see it as being implemented overnight :) -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* And how should we have guessed that release management is now done by the advocacy group? While you're out advocating, don't forget the existing users. It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: And I'll pre-empt *that* with the volume of email isn't changing, only the ability to filter that email ... the purpose of the -advocacy list is to focus on how to better market the software ... not through stuff like advertising, but how do we provide information to debunk alot of the out-dated myths that still float around ... Which is perfectly fine, but as one of the web site developers, I don't want to have to sit in on all the marketing threads to know what they want done with the websites. Instead I'd rather the discussions are summarized by one the the guys there (you/Justin/Bruce?), and they present that to -www and say 'this is what we think is good, please make it happen', at which point I can start coding. Ah, okay, that makes sense ... sort of allocate a 'liason' between the groups ... ? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. Why don't we just shut down the regular web site. Clearly it's not considered adequate anymore. As of yet, the new portal isn't ready yet ... and the adequacy of the existing site isn't so much a problem, but maintainability of it ... according to Vince, trying to add anything to it is virtually impossible :( I have a new design for it, now it's just getting the time to implement it. It's easy to add to and looks alot nicer. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
-Original Message- From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 04 December 2002 13:56 To: Dave Page Cc: Peter Eisentraut; Justin Clift; Bruce Momjian; PostgreSQL-development Subject: RE: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: And I'll pre-empt *that* with the volume of email isn't changing, only the ability to filter that email ... the purpose of the -advocacy list is to focus on how to better market the software ... not through stuff like advertising, but how do we provide information to debunk alot of the out-dated myths that still float around ... Which is perfectly fine, but as one of the web site developers, I don't want to have to sit in on all the marketing threads to know what they want done with the websites. Instead I'd rather the discussions are summarized by one the the guys there (you/Justin/Bruce?), and they present that to -www and say 'this is what we think is good, please make it happen', at which point I can start coding. Ah, okay, that makes sense ... sort of allocate a 'liason' between the groups ... ? Sounds spot on to me. Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. And I'll pre-empt *that* with the volume of email isn't changing, only the ability to filter that email ... the purpose of the -advocacy list is to focus on how to better market the software ... not through stuff like advertising, but how do we provide information to debunk alot of the out-dated myths that still float around ... But we *are* filtering. I'm filtering out all mail from -advocacy. Besides, I already got off of lists that I wanted to be on due to the traffic. Now you want me to join one that I don't want to be on so I can get more traffic? I've seen how well filters work. I've asked you questions that I never did get an answer to. How is that any better than not getting the mail to begin with? Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Dave Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. I'm not subscribed to -advocacy either. I'm a little disturbed to hear that major decisions seem to be getting taken there without any mention in -hackers. regards, tom lane ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Bookmark'd for the next release ... thanks for the suggestion ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: I have a new design for it, now it's just getting the time to implement it. It's easy to add to and looks alot nicer. Cool, I think the only beef I ever had with it was the way the results were presented, but loved teh whole annotated aspects ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Dave Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. I'm not subscribed to -advocacy either. I'm a little disturbed to hear that major decisions seem to be getting taken there without any mention in -hackers. Everything that is discussed on -advocacy is generally that which is dealing with the advocacy web site ... case studies and such ... there are no major decisions being made over there ... in my case, it was a small pool of ppl interested in advocacy/marketing that I could draw on to write a stronger, less techie oriented, press release around ... I have a list of 350+ contacts that I used to get it out through, in various fields (university, publishing, etc) and needed something a little bit more at that level then I've been able to create in the past ... Most, if not all, of the stuff going through -advocacy is, right now, revolving around keeping track of the various press links that ppl find on the 'Net, which are to be added to the various sites that are currently being developed ... as well as a point of contact for liason'ng with companies willing/able to write and publish case studies ... ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Bookmark'd for the next release ... thanks for the suggestion ... I was hoping for something that would take existing text and *Bullshit* it. Bummer. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Bookmark'd for the next release ... thanks for the suggestion ... I was hoping for something that would take existing text and *Bullshit* it. Bummer. Click on it a few times. You'll get the text you need. I've actually used it for real things with excellent results (I'm not going to elaborate). Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Ummm...I disagree. Lack of marketing is one of Postgres's major problems. Particularly when you compare against similar efforts from MySQL, Oracle, etc. Yes, indeed. The _prime_ reason for the fact that MySQL is the M in LAMP is that there is a steady, intent set of efforts going into marketing the M. People think that MySQL is faster, easier to use and more standard than its alternatives, and that is certainly the result of marketing. The /real/ technical merit of MySQL has been that there are some integrated tools for ISPs like CPANEL that make it easy for ISPs that don't know /anything/ about DBMSes to provide MySQL for their customers. CPANEL doesn't support PostgreSQL, and historically, it has been somewhat more difficult to support large numbers of PostgreSQL instances on a web server. Some of that has changed, though CPANEL /still/ doesn't support PostgreSQL. If any of you consider these technical issues to be small and petty, I'm afraid I don't /care/. More importantly, the hundreds of ISPs licensing CPANEL don't care. /They/ are the ones that would need convincing, and I don't think there's any real route to convince them that they should be pounding down CPANEL's door asking for a PostgreSQL front end and to convince them that they have to tell their customers: We sold you MySQL, telling you it was good for you to use. We were wrong, and our new story is that you should convert your databases over to use PostgreSQL. Anyone consider that a likely scenario? Anyone? It's fair to say that PostgreSQL doesn't need the likes of the Database HOWTO that gives a sales job that's so blindly enthusiastic as to be, well, blind. But an organization that has /no/ marketing department is at a severe disadvantage, like it or not. It is unfortunate that it is almost impossible to have a marketing group without there being some wilful blinders involved; it's vital for there to be some technical involvement in the marketing group to pop whatever bubbles they grow that are woefully wrong. But even if it operates with some occasional lack of /real/ vision, it's necessary to have a marketing group... -- (reverse (concatenate 'string moc.enworbbc@ sirhc)) http://cbbrowne.com/info/advocacy.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #106. If my supreme command center comes under attack, I will immediately flee to safety in my prepared escape pod and direct the defenses from there. I will not wait until the troops break into my inner sanctum to attempt this. http://www.eviloverlord.com/ ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Bookmark'd for the next release ... thanks for the suggestion ... I was hoping for something that would take existing text and *Bullshit* it. Bummer. No, but I figure that at least it will give me a good site to give me BS fodder from ... man, just wait for the next release announcement :) ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the minority on this one. -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Ummm...I disagree. Lack of marketing is one of Postgres's major problems. Particularly when you compare against similar efforts from MySQL, Oracle, etc. Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Wow, this sounds great. Where can I get a copy? Why would anyone use anything else? ;-) Well, if you read the announcement in its entirety, you would have noticed: Source for this release is available at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/download/ *grin* ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Wow, this sounds great. Where can I get a copy? Why would anyone use anything else? ;-) Well, if you read the announcement in its entirety, you would have noticed: Source for this release is available at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/download/ Oh, good. I will go get it right now. ;-) -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
-Original Message- From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 December 2002 19:12 To: Bruce Momjian Cc: PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Wow, this sounds great. Where can I get a copy? Why would anyone use anything else? ;-) Well, if you read the announcement in its entirety, you would have noticed: Source for this release is available at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/download/ I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? :-) Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 December 2002 19:12 To: Bruce Momjian Cc: PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Wow, this sounds great. Where can I get a copy? Why would anyone use anything else? ;-) Well, if you read the announcement in its entirety, you would have noticed: Source for this release is available at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/download/ I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Haven't you been paying attention? There's this new advocacy and suit marketing thing going on that makes all of that irrelevant. It's just there for show now. :) Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* We are looking at some improvements to the download stuff ... Greg(?) suggested a layout that I really liked for a web based version that would have to tie into the main mirror database ... one that provided a wee bit more information then just the directory listings ... but, with that thought, isn't there a file you can put into an ftp directory that, when you web into that directory, i gives you the listings with various comments, or is that just using the .messages file? ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Haven't you been paying attention? There's this new advocacy and suit marketing thing going on that makes all of that irrelevant. It's just there for show now. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* I understood it was intentional so comments wouldn't have done any good. We are looking at some improvements to the download stuff ... Greg(?) suggested a layout that I really liked for a web based version that would have to tie into the main mirror database ... one that provided a wee bit more information then just the directory listings ... but, with that thought, isn't there a file you can put into an ftp directory that, when you web into that directory, i gives you the listings with various comments, or is that just using the .messages file? All of them I've seen had an index.html in it. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Dave Page wrote: snip I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. The only reason for the download page not having a list of mirrors is due to not having done it yet. :-) Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift :-) Regards, Dave. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Marc G. Fournier writes: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* And how should we have guessed that release management is now done by the advocacy group? While you're out advocating, don't forget the existing users. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Justin Clift writes: Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. Why don't we just shut down the regular web site. Clearly it's not considered adequate anymore. -- Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* And how should we have guessed that release management is now done by the advocacy group? While you're out advocating, don't forget the existing users. Sorry Peter. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. Why don't we just shut down the regular web site. Clearly it's not considered adequate anymore. Well, qe're trying to move the new portal side of things into place (presently at wwwdevel.postgresql.org), so that all of the different PostgreSQL pieces are more easily accessible. Regards and best wishes, Justin Clift -- My grandfather once told me that there are two kinds of people: those who work and those who take the credit. He told me to try to be in the first group; there was less competition there. - Indira Gandhi ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
[HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces Version 7.3(fwd)
Wow, this sounds great. Where can I get a copy? Why would anyone use anything else? ;-) -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 ---BeginMessage--- For Immediate Release November 28th, 2002 Contacts: Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61.3 9363 1313 (Australia) Marc Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.902 542 0713 (Canada) PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces Version 7.3 The PostgreSQL Global Development Group proudly announces the release of version 7.3 of the PostgreSQL object-relational database management system (ORDBMS). PostgreSQL, the world's most advanced open source database, provides solutions for many of the most demanding applications in use today, saving businesses and governments millions of dollars each year. Here is what some current PostgreSQL users have gone on record to say about this technology: PostgreSQL has scaled perfectly with our rapidly expanding business, and we recommend it over every other DB. -- TrustCommerce, California PostgreSQL provided sales.org with a solution that was $70,000 less expensive to create, and over 70% lower in cost to operate and maintain than any of the commercial DBMS offerings we looked at. -- sales.org Inc., Toronto PostgreSQL handles virtually all the standard SQL constructs. It is easy (relatively speaking) to administer, it is fast, it is efficient, it has a great API, and it supports ODBC, why would you choose something else? -- Mohawk Software, Massachusetts The worldwide PostgreSQL community is very excited about this release, which includes numerous modifications and enhancements thanks to the contributions of over 500 developers and thousands of volunteer testers from more than 50 countries. PostgreSQL 7.3 is full of new, oft requested features such as SQL '92 schemas, prepared statements, and stored procedures that can return record sets. And under the hood there is a new dependency tracking system that allows PostgreSQL to *safely* support many more subtle enhancements like the ability to drop columns, said Neil Conway, a member of the PostgreSQL Global Development Team. Among the advances in PostgreSQL version 7.3 are: Schemas PostgreSQL now joins the handful of ORDBMS's to support the SQL 92 Schema specification, improving both enterprise database management and security through the use of namespaces. Table Functions PostgreSQL version 7.3 has greatly simplified returning result sets of rows and columns in database functions. This significantly enhances the useability of stored procedures in PostgreSQL, and will make it even easier to port Oracle applications to PostgreSQL. Security Advances In response to community demands, PostgreSQL has added schema, function, and other permissions and settings to increase the database administrator's granular control over security. Other Enhancements to PostgreSQL Version 7.3 includes: - Enhanced dependency tracking for complex databases. - Prepared queries for maximized performance on common requests. - Expanded logging options - Supports data in many international characters sets (UNICODE, EUC_JP, EUC_CN, EUC_KR, JOHAB, EUC_TW, ISO 8859-1 ECMA-94, KOI8, WIN1256, etc...) - Dozens of performance enhancements to maintain PostgreSQL's leading position in ORDMBSs. Source for this release is available at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/download/ More information on PostgreSQL is available in nine languages on the PostgreSQL Advocacy website: http://advocacy.postgresql.org A complete list of changes in PostgreSQL version 7.3 can be found in the HISTORY file included with the release, or available on the web at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/changes/73/ About PostgreSQL: With more than 16 years of development by hundreds of the world's most generous and brilliant minds from the open source community, PostgreSQL is the world's most advanced open source database. With its long time support of an enterprise level feature set including transactions, stored procedures, triggers, and subqueries, PostgreSQL is being used by many of today's most demanding businesses. Corporations such as BASF, Red Hat, Afilias Limited (suporting the technical backend of the .org and .info domains), Cisco, Chrysler, and 3Com rely on PostgreSQL's rock solid performance record and open development process. PostgreSQL is available under a BSD License for both commercial and non-commercial use. To find out more about PostgreSQL or to download it, please visit: http://advocacy.postgresql.org ---(end of
