Re: [HACKERS] Web site
On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2002 at 03:59:33AM -0400, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Gavin Sherry wrote: Hi all, It occurs to me that opening web page on www.postgresql.org, asking the user to select the mirror, is rather unprofessional. I am sure this has been discussed before but I thought I would bring it up again anyway. Your point? So, why not just redirect people to one of the mirrors listed? This could be done based on IP (yes it is inaccurate but it is close enough and has the same net effect: pushing people off the main web server) or it could be done by simply redirecting to a random mirror. Been there, done that, didn't work. Too much of a job to keep track of that many IP blocks too. I'd suggest setting a cookie, so I only see the 'pick a mirror' the first time. And provide a link to 'pick a different mirror' that resets or ignores the cookie. Or choose the mirror that works best for you and bookmark it. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Release of 7.2.3
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Michael Paesold wrote: This document: http://developer.postgresql.org/docs/postgres/release-7-2-3.html mentions a release date of 2002-10-01 for version 7.2.3. It isn't on the main website, tough, is it? The documentation on the developers website is not necessarily accurate - especially when it comes to dates. Documentation is typically one of the last things finalized and is in a constant state of change. That's one of the reasons why the developer site is separated from the main website - people read things on the developer site and think they're 100% accurate. Nothing is final until it's announced on the announce mailing list and/or the main website. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Coordinates seems ok (Moscow), I asked if map should present something more like old Bruce's map with photos. I'm using Mozilla and see just a picture of the world :-) old Bruce's map ??? No idea what you're referring to. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] New PostgreSQL Website : advocacy.postgresql.org
On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Oleg Bartunov wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Hi Oleg, It's supposed to show roughly where everyone is. Based mostly on Vince's map from the developer site, but this one is really easy to update. If you're not located on the map correctly (probably hard to tell, but if you're wrong on Vince's map then you're wrong on this one) it can be updated pronto. Look for an updated map shortly. I have everyone's coordinates in and it looks like the tools build ok. I should have at least a day or two break from the activities in Congress (re. internet broadcasting), so I want to get the new one up asap and before things bust loose again. Coordinates seems ok (Moscow), I asked if map should present something more like old Bruce's map with photos. I'm using Mozilla and see just a picture of the world :-) old Bruce's map ??? No idea what you're referring to. I may be wrong with author of the map, but it's there http://developer.postgresql.org/index.php Jan's map. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[HACKERS] reminder for those working on docs
Since 7.4 is getting real close and docs are going to be going through their final once-overs. Please remember to have a look at the DocNote comments that have been submitted. Once 7.4 is released the current notes will be gone. http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/checknotes.php The above url will show the notes and what they're in relation to with a link to that particular piece of documentation. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Little note to php coders
On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Sir Mordred The Traitor wrote: Check out this link, if you need something to laugh at: http://www.postgresql.org/idocs/index.php?1' Keeping in mind, that there are bunch of overflows in PostgreSQL(really?), it is very dangerous i guess. Right? Don't see what you're complaining about. I get teh 7.2.1 admin guide. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Just a thought
On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Sir Mordred The Traitor wrote: Just think, that maybe a postgresql php coder (or admin if you like it), email me, and give me *.php sources. Seems like most of his scripts written in a very insecure and lame style. Probably no worse than your writing style. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Is regress/report.php in use?
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Gee. I didn't know that existed. We are probably better off doing it via mailing list so we can discuss the results. What do you mean you didn't know it existed? It's been there for the last few releases (since 7.1). You've even submitted to it! Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Is regress/report.php in use?
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Gee. I didn't know that existed. We are probably better off doing it via mailing list so we can discuss the results. What do you mean you didn't know it existed? It's been there for the last few releases (since 7.1). You've even submitted to it! I didn't _remember_ it existed. Much better. Now you should use it. :) It keeps an archive of the test results, etc. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Is regress/report.php in use?
On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: to be honest ... I forgot it was there too :( Just means I'm gonna have to do a bunch of popup ads! ** ducking and running On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Gee. I didn't know that existed. We are probably better off doing it via mailing list so we can discuss the results. What do you mean you didn't know it existed? It's been there for the last few releases (since 7.1). You've even submitted to it! Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] RC1?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Are we ready for RC1 yet? This is Tuesday, you can only ask on Fridays :) Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Glad you liked it. But that doesn't change the fact that it obscured the release to the point that many people didn't even know it was released. I found out by folks complaining about broken links. Hrm - the subject said it all, plus what about the first 2 paragraphs? PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces Version 7.3 The PostgreSQL Global Development Group proudly announces the release of version 7.3 of the PostgreSQL object-relational database management system (ORDBMS). PostgreSQL, the world's most advanced open source database, provides solutions for many of the most demanding applications in use today, saving businesses and governments millions of dollars each year. Maybe the user comments can be moved until after the 7.3 feature list? First things first. In pine, the announcement looked like this in the index: 17096 Nov 28 PostgreSQL Public (6733) [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Developm I see nothing about 7.3 there. When skimming the mailbox, that's what I see. I didn't see the actual message until AFTER went looking for it. When I did find it, this is what I saw when I opened it: - For Immediate Release November 28th, 2002 Contacts: Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61.3 9363 1313 (Australia) Marc Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.902 542 0713 (Canada) - Yep, it's gotta be the best one yet. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On 29 Nov 2002, Ryan Mahoney wrote: Scroll down and read the rest of, it's an excellent announcement! If the website and mirrors made mention of the release (as of 8:19PM CST they don't!) and the message was sent to all the mailing lists, there would probably be less confusion. When I read the announcement I was very impressed and went straight to www.postgresql.org. Once I got there, I wondered if maybe the announcement had been sent by accident! When I'm looking for content in a message if I don't find it in the first few lines or even on the first page, I move on. But like I said, had you really bothered to read it, it did not resemble a traditional release announcement. I don't intend to debate this any further. I've just about filtered the junk out of the announcement and should have it on the website in a few mins. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has there been a release? It certainly hasn't been announced in the usual places that I monitor. Marc claimed he'd put out the announcement on pgsql-announce, but that copy of the message never arrived here (it did show up on pgsql-general though). Evidently you and Vince never got it either ... After alot of searching I did find it. It wasn't exactly what one would expect a PostgreSQL release announcement to look like. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Marc claimed he'd put out the announcement on pgsql-announce, but that copy of the message never arrived here (it did show up on pgsql-general though). Evidently you and Vince never got it either ... After alot of searching I did find it. It wasn't exactly what one would expect a PostgreSQL release announcement to look like. Huh? I thought it was the best one yet! The quotes, the example cases and large users, links to advocacy and HISTORY. It was excellent. A better emphasis on marketing as well as technical improvements. Glad you liked it. But that doesn't change the fact that it obscured the release to the point that many people didn't even know it was released. I found out by folks complaining about broken links. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: FYI, Vince, I started reading all my email (using elm) in a special 120 column wide, 38 row xterm. There was just too much detail in those subjects i was missing. Doesn't do me much good if too often I don't have the luxury of a large screen 'cuze I'm reading from a remote site with horrible resolution or just an 80x25 screen. --- Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Glad you liked it. But that doesn't change the fact that it obscured the release to the point that many people didn't even know it was released. I found out by folks complaining about broken links. Hrm - the subject said it all, plus what about the first 2 paragraphs? PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces Version 7.3 The PostgreSQL Global Development Group proudly announces the release of version 7.3 of the PostgreSQL object-relational database management system (ORDBMS). PostgreSQL, the world's most advanced open source database, provides solutions for many of the most demanding applications in use today, saving businesses and governments millions of dollars each year. Maybe the user comments can be moved until after the 7.3 feature list? First things first. In pine, the announcement looked like this in the index: 17096 Nov 28 PostgreSQL Public (6733) [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Developm I see nothing about 7.3 there. When skimming the mailbox, that's what I see. I didn't see the actual message until AFTER went looking for it. When I did find it, this is what I saw when I opened it: - For Immediate Release November 28th, 2002 Contacts: Justin Clift [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61.3 9363 1313 (Australia) Marc Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1.902 542 0713 (Canada) - Yep, it's gotta be the best one yet. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster -- Bruce Momjian| http://candle.pha.pa.us [EMAIL PROTECTED] | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup.| Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: FYI, Vince, I started reading all my email (using elm) in a special 120 column wide, 38 row xterm. There was just too much detail in those subjects i was missing. Doesn't do me much good if too often I don't have the luxury of a large screen 'cuze I'm reading from a remote site with horrible resolution or just an 80x25 screen. Would a better subject line, fitting in the smaller default width, have been something like: PostgreSQL 7.3 Released! by the PostgreSQL Global Development Group So hopefully it would look something like: 17096 Nov 28 PostgreSQL Public (6733) [GENERAL] PostgreSQL 7.3 Released! b Am thinking that regardless of the wording of the release, it doesn't hurt us to do simple things like re-arranging the Subject line to make things a bit more obvious. Yes it would. But while on the subject, why did you only mention it's availability being on the advocacy site? Are the ftp and website mirrors now irrelevant to you? Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Neil Conway wrote: On Fri, 2002-11-29 at 23:32, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: snip Yes it would. But while on the subject, why did you only mention it's availability being on the advocacy site? *We* mentioned it's availability being on the Advocacy site, because it gives people a single place to go that has both PostgreSQL itself *and* a site that's dedicated to giving a clear list of features, advantages, case studies, etc. But why duplicate the download PostgreSQL page on advocacy? ISTM a link to the appropriate page on the main website would be fine -- and if the download PostgreSQL stuff on the main website isn't perfect, then we should improve it (and fix the underlying problem), rather than duplicating content on advocacy.postgresql.org Why does our master web site still have 7.2.3 listed as the most recent release? http://www.ca.postgresql.org/sitess.html In fact, the link mentioned on the main web page points to the mirror page, not to any place to download it. If I choose FTP mirrors, that works. Rather than bitch about it, why don't you just ask? Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres 7.3 announcement on postgresql.org
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Fri, 29 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: FYI, Vince, I started reading all my email (using elm) in a special 120 column wide, 38 row xterm. There was just too much detail in those subjects i was missing. Doesn't do me much good if too often I don't have the luxury of a large screen 'cuze I'm reading from a remote site with horrible resolution or just an 80x25 screen. Sorry, but definitely sounds like a personal problem here :( The press release was extensively discussed on the -advocacy mailing list, and *repeatedly* Josh and Robert asked for feedback on it ... you are right, I could have shorten'd the subject a wee bit, error on my part that I will try not to repeat in the future ... I'm not on the advocacy list, nor do I want to be. Alot of people watch hackers for things like release notices. Why send a sales oriented document that was written for people who know nothing about postgresql to hackers anyway? Save the fluff for the other lists and send a normal announcement here. BTW, I got the copy of the announcement that went to the ANNOUNCE list. I'm guessing most folks blew it off as junkmail due to it's format. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PostgreSQL in Universities (Was: Re: [HACKERS] 7.4 Wishlist)
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Excellent. Are there any other people involved in PostgreSQL and universities or educational institutions? If so we could put something together about experiences for the advocacy Web site. Is this the kind of thing that the Techdocs Guides area would be good for? (http://techdocs.postgresql.org/guides) Seems that any discussions about experiences belongs on Advocacy, no? Where have you been? The lines of distinction between all of the lists have gotten so blurred it hardly makes a difference. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Marc G. Fournier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 03 December 2002 19:12 To: Bruce Momjian Cc: PostgreSQL-development Subject: Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces On Thu, 28 Nov 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Wow, this sounds great. Where can I get a copy? Why would anyone use anything else? ;-) Well, if you read the announcement in its entirety, you would have noticed: Source for this release is available at: http://advocacy.postgresql.org/download/ I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Haven't you been paying attention? There's this new advocacy and suit marketing thing going on that makes all of that irrelevant. It's just there for show now. :) Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: I could have sworn we used to have a bunch of ftp mirrors for downloads. Come to think of it I rewrote/stole a load of Vince's PHP code to allow you to select one from the portal recently. Are we not using them anymore? Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* I understood it was intentional so comments wouldn't have done any good. We are looking at some improvements to the download stuff ... Greg(?) suggested a layout that I really liked for a web based version that would have to tie into the main mirror database ... one that provided a wee bit more information then just the directory listings ... but, with that thought, isn't there a file you can put into an ftp directory that, when you web into that directory, i gives you the listings with various comments, or is that just using the .messages file? All of them I've seen had an index.html in it. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Tue, 3 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* I understood it was intentional so comments wouldn't have done any good. Anything is only as intentional as nobody making constructive critisms of it ... e, that was major bad english ... not part of solution, you are part of problem sort of thing... That may be how you understood it, but not how I understood it. There appears to be an incremental takeover occurring. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: Yup, as with doing anything for the firs ttime, the press release itself had its 'bugs' ... considering how many times Josh asked for comments on it, I'm surprised that nobody picked up on it *shrug* And how should we have guessed that release management is now done by the advocacy group? While you're out advocating, don't forget the existing users. It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Justin Clift writes: Of course we are, it's just that we're also trying to direct people to the Advocacy site where there is a lot more info, in a lot more languages. Why don't we just shut down the regular web site. Clearly it's not considered adequate anymore. As of yet, the new portal isn't ready yet ... and the adequacy of the existing site isn't so much a problem, but maintainability of it ... according to Vince, trying to add anything to it is virtually impossible :( I have a new design for it, now it's just getting the time to implement it. It's easy to add to and looks alot nicer. Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Dave Page wrote: I'll preempt the 'this was all discussed on -advocacy, you should have been there' response with yet another agreement with Vince :-) - I too am getting far too much mail these days and another list is the last thing I need. And I'll pre-empt *that* with the volume of email isn't changing, only the ability to filter that email ... the purpose of the -advocacy list is to focus on how to better market the software ... not through stuff like advertising, but how do we provide information to debunk alot of the out-dated myths that still float around ... But we *are* filtering. I'm filtering out all mail from -advocacy. Besides, I already got off of lists that I wanted to be on due to the traffic. Now you want me to join one that I don't want to be on so I can get more traffic? I've seen how well filters work. I've asked you questions that I never did get an answer to. How is that any better than not getting the mail to begin with? Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Vince Vielhaber wrote: That wasn't stronger, it was fluffier. It was full of buzzwords that were masking the actual content. Are you trying to hide the accomplishments or promote them? If you're trying to hide them like in this announcement you may want to try using this tool: http://www.dack.com/web/bullshit.html The stored phrases are much more refined and better paired. Bookmark'd for the next release ... thanks for the suggestion ... I was hoping for something that would take existing text and *Bullshit* it. Bummer. Click on it a few times. You'll get the text you need. I've actually used it for real things with excellent results (I'm not going to elaborate). Vince. -- http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group Announces
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: It isn't, but those working on -advocacy were asked to help come up with a stronger release *announcement* then we've had in the past ... Consider that a failed experiment. PostgreSQL is driven by the development group and, to some extent, by the existing user base. The last thing we need is a marketing department in that mix. Peter, I understand your perspective, but I think you are in the minority on this one. Kinda depends who you're asking now, doesn't it? I happen to agree with him, but as long as you're only going to involve a selected few in the opinion gathering you can pretty much get the answer you want to get. I can survey 100 people and get the opposite result putting you in the minority. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Brian Knox wrote: Speaking from the perspective of a long time postgresql user, who currently has several very mission critical applications using postgresql on the back end, at a very large company... I can say the one consequence of the problem that I have run into personally, is convincing management to allow me to use postgresql for my projects to begin with. Fortunately, where I am currently employed, I was able to bash my head against the brick wall until they got tired of hearing from me, and allowed me to go with postgresql instead of sybase (which was their first choice, as the corporation already has a sybase site license). The lack of name recognition was a factor that contributed to the difficulty of getting postgresql accepted. The last thing a non technical middle manager wants to tell his or her manager is that some mission critical application that just crashed was running on some database he had never heard of before that he gave the go ahead to use. Not name recognition, but it'd be nice to think that's the reason. Mysql has alot of name recognition but you didn't mention them. You mentioned sybase and having a sybase site license. Marketing wouldn't help here, they want a commercial database used that they've already paid for. What too many people fail to realize is that in a commercial environment many companies want another company to point the finger at in case of disaster. Sybase failed, or HP failed, or IBM failed, or Microsoft failed. They feel they can do something about that. If they lose a few million they have someone they can go after, who are they going to go after if PostgreSQL fails them? Marc? Bruce? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On 5 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote: On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 03:28, Dave Page wrote: www is a closed group consisting of a few of us who actually do the work on the sites. This is one of the primary reasons the sites are so fractured. We have 4 different mailing lists for website development (and I'm not counting advocacy as one of those) and the folks maintaining those lists seem to be against letting anyone into their fiefdoms. Well we told you a few times which list you were supposed to subscribe to but over and over again you didn't. I just finished approving your subscription to the list we've been telling you to join. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Fri, 6 Dec 2002, Josh Berkus wrote: Dave, BTW, we do coordinate with the Website development group When did that happen then? I think I must have blinked :-) Marc and Justin are periodically keeping the Advocacy group informed of progress on wwwdevel, and we were asked to test it before. Vince asked us for suggestions, too. I did what? When? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Thu, 5 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote: Well, my previous employer uses postgresql, but they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2. Technically there was no reason to switch, but if your choice is switch databases or go out of business, there really isn't much choice. That tells me their clients wanted a commercial database, not one that's open source. All the marketing in the world won't change that. Really? Why do you say that? Because of this taken from the above quoted text: they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2 Last I looked neither Oracle or DB2 were open source, but they both just happen to be commercial and I don't see mysql mentioned. Anything else you don't understand about that? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: Because of this taken from the above quoted text: they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2 Last I looked neither Oracle or DB2 were open source, but they both just happen to be commercial and I don't see mysql mentioned. And ? And what? If you can't understand the above you're in the wrong business. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: Because of this taken from the above quoted text: they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2 Last I looked neither Oracle or DB2 were open source, but they both just happen to be commercial and I don't see mysql mentioned. And ? And what? If you can't understand the above you're in the wrong business. And ? That's what I thought. You have no argument so your just typing. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On 7 Dec 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: What too many people fail to realize is that in a commercial environment many companies want another company to point the finger at in case of disaster. Sybase failed, or HP failed, or IBM failed, or Microsoft failed. They feel they can do something about that. If they lose a few million they have someone they can go after, who are they going to go after if PostgreSQL fails them? Marc? Bruce? This is when you start to shout that RedHat offers commercial support, licencing, etc. INCLUDING a free, non-restrictive source licence to the core components of RHDB. I had considered mentioning redhat but didn't want to blur things. Red hat markets PostgreSQL under a different name and they're offering a complete package (including support as you note). The PGDG isn't doing that and they shouldn't be. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002, Justin Clift wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: That's what I thought. You have no argument so your just typing. Hi Vince, Was more hoping you'd care to share your basis for stating Robert's employers clients wanted a commercial database, after he mentioned specifically DB2 and Oracle. Knowing one of the obvious common factors they have and then stating it was definitely the reason - not having sought clarification nor confirmation from Robert - and then further stating that the PG Advocacy and Marketing group wouldn't be able to assist even if that were the case, is extremely bad form coming from anyone, let alone you. Then they come with the insults. Justin, I'm finished discussing this with you. You're obviously not capable of understanding it and you're simply wasting my time - like usual. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On 8 Dec 2002, Oliver Elphick wrote: On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 20:52, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Why do you say that? Because of this taken from the above quoted text: they were under constant assault from their clients to use oracle or db2 Last I looked neither Oracle or DB2 were open source, but they both just happen to be commercial and I don't see mysql mentioned. This is a reason to increase marketing effort. I know the word has pejorative overtones in our community, but it means talking about PostgreSQL so that the PHBs hear about it and therefore begin to feel comfortable about using it. If something is familiar, it feels safe. We need to make PostgreSQL familiar. That's why we need marketing. Then why wasn't mysql in the list? It's familiar. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On 8 Dec 2002, Oliver Elphick wrote: On Sun, 2002-12-08 at 22:27, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On 8 Dec 2002, Oliver Elphick wrote: If something is familiar, it feels safe. We need to make PostgreSQL familiar. That's why we need marketing. Then why wasn't mysql in the list? It's familiar. To PHBs? I would argue yes. Everywhere you turn you see Powered by MySQL. If years of working on it isn't getting them the familiarity to overcome the PHBs then the PHBs are either not considering open source or the marketing attempts aren't strong or capable enough to penetrate. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote: On Saturday 07 December 2002 11:10 pm, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On 5 Dec 2002, Robert Treat wrote: On Thu, 2002-12-05 at 03:28, Dave Page wrote: www is a closed group consisting of a few of us who actually do the work on the sites. This is one of the primary reasons the sites are so fractured. We have 4 different mailing lists for website development (and I'm not counting advocacy as one of those) and the folks maintaining those lists seem to be against letting anyone into their fiefdoms. Well we told you a few times which list you were supposed to subscribe to but over and over again you didn't. I just finished approving your subscription to the list we've been telling you to join. And I have multiple subscription denied emails from lists I've tried to join. In fact I was just rejected again from joining pgsql-www. Given that I'm one of the few people who have actually donated content and/or code to techdocs, advocacy, and the new portal site; not to mention I already have shell access for the backend servers; also not to mention my helping out with the sourceforge PostgreSQL project page; and finally not to mention my solid open source background which includes coding for the phpPgAdmin project and work as a php foundry administrator for sourceforge, among other projects; I have to ask what the hell could be so secretive and important about that list that people would complain about lack of communication and yet I can't be allowed access to that group?!? Exactly, and pgsql-www is the wrong goddam list! I've told you over and over again. pgsql-www is the list that the group leaders use to collaborate. Over and over again we told you to join pgsql-www-main, which is an invitation only list for development of the soon to be released portal. I'm the one that approves or denies the subscriptions to BOTH of those lists and the first time I denied you I sent you a note telling you not only why I denied it, but which list you were SUPPOSED to join. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] [GENERAL] PostgreSQL Global Development Group
On Sun, 8 Dec 2002, Josh Berkus wrote: But once Postgres has been packaged, we need to have a group making a loud enough noise to get the world to pay attention. I'm not asking everyone on this list to participate, but I am asking everyone on this list to recognize the utility of the effort. Here are my main problems with it. 1) They're marketing to those that are already sold on it. 2) They are, or at least were, insisting that I join their list to stay informed on what they're doing. 3) They need to learn HOW to market from someone who knows (not me) how or they'll never be taken seriously. That's all I'm going to say on this subject. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Let's create a release team
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Dan Langille [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --- for example: Marc owns, runs, and pays for the postgresql.org servers. Is the cvs repo mirrored? Anyone running cvsup would have a complete copy of the source CVS, I believe. It would be more troubling to reconstruct the mailing list archives; I'm not sure that those are mirrored anywhere. (Marc?) Archives are mirrored at a number of sites. There was a time when all web mirrors also mirrored them but that was split off about a year ago. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] 7.3.1 documentation updates
On Tue, 17 Dec 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: I have not been aggressive about backpatching documentation improvements into 7.3.1. Is that something I should check? As I remember, we didn't update the official docs for minor releases. Is that still true? They say hydergine helps the memory. The idocs were never updated to current version until around the .1 release since there were usually discrepencies and it was a pain to update them. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :) http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/ doesn't exist anymore. Sounds like someone was messin with httpd.conf. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] New Portal in Place, DNS switched ...
On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Mon, 6 Jan 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Marc G. Fournier writes: I'm just announcing here, since I'd like to see some ppl testing this out and let us know if there are any problems ... DNS is going to take a little while to propogate, so the old site may still come up in the interium ... another reason not to announce it right away :) http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/ doesn't exist anymore. Sounds like someone was messin with httpd.conf. nope, www.postgresql.org is no longer on mars, where the development stuff is located ... I have a way to fix that, just need to find a moment to do so :( Doesn't matter where it is if the redirect points to the right place. IIRC Peter's webspace was a redirect. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, mlw wrote: This is a serious inquiry, very serious. People are complaining about ads. What do we need in the form of equipment, bandwidth, etc. FTP is just over 800MB, plan for growth. WEB is just over 90MB, can't tell you what to plan for there. On www/ftp.us I don't even notice the bandwidth, it's less than the normal traffic for Pop4 (an ISP) and the streaming audio uses up even more than that. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On 7 Jan 2003, Greg Copeland wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 16:46, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003, mlw wrote: This is a serious inquiry, very serious. People are complaining about ads. What do we need in the form of equipment, bandwidth, etc. FTP is just over 800MB, plan for growth. WEB is just over 90MB, can't tell you what to plan for there. On www/ftp.us I don't even notice the bandwidth, it's less than the normal traffic for Pop4 (an ISP) and the streaming audio uses up even more than that. Vince. I guess I don't understand the problem. The ads are very small and completely innocuous. Why would anyone care? Who's complaining and why? Some folks hate to see ads, some don't. If they were popups or really obnoxious I could see it as a problem, but not them little things. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FTP is just over 800MB, plan for growth. WEB is just over 90MB, can't tell you what to plan for there. Sorry to be dense, but what time period is this for? Any given day. It's disk space, not traffic. On www/ftp.us I don't even notice the bandwidth, it's less than the normal traffic for Pop4 (an ISP) and the streaming audio uses up even more than that. Sounds like the mirrors could easily absorb more of the traffic from the main page, especially once we get an easier mirroring system in place. The mirrors now consist of the Users Lounge - links, docs and mailing list info. If it shrinks much more there won't be any reason to mirror. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Dan Langille wrote: On 13 Jan 2003 at 9:45, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FTP is just over 800MB, plan for growth. WEB is just over 90MB, can't tell you what to plan for there. Sorry to be dense, but what time period is this for? Any given day. It's disk space, not traffic. I think anyone thinking of putting up a mirror will want to know traffic volumes. The only info I could give was what I already did. My above statement was to clarify the above numbers. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Ross J. Reedstrom wrote: On Mon, Jan 13, 2003 at 10:01:38AM -0500, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Dan Langille wrote: On 13 Jan 2003 at 9:45, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FTP is just over 800MB, plan for growth. WEB is just over 90MB, can't tell you what to plan for there. Sorry to be dense, but what time period is this for? Any given day. It's disk space, not traffic. I think anyone thinking of putting up a mirror will want to know traffic volumes. The only info I could give was what I already did. My above statement was to clarify the above numbers. And there was a statement upthread from someone (Marc?) indicating that the bandwidth was down in the noise for them (as an ISP). That was me and what I was referring to with, The only info I could give was what I already did. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Ross J. Reedstrom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 13 January 2003 15:16 To: Vince Vielhaber Cc: Dan Langille; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up? And there was a statement upthread from someone (Marc?) indicating that the bandwidth was down in the noise for them (as an ISP). I think that was Vince talking about 1 mirror. The January stats to date (bear in mind it didn't go live until the 4/5th Jan), for the Portal and idocs *only* (ie, not including gborg, techdocs, developer, user-lounge, archives, fts, pgadmin, odbc, jdbc or ftp) are: Total Hits 1339547 Total Files 1064536 Total Pages 324346 Total Visits 58178 Total KBytes 2712883 In other words, 2.7Gb in 8/9 days. I'm not sure I'd call that noise :-) It's irrelevant. The portal and idocs aren't being mirrored and the question was about mirrors. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] PostgreSQL site, put up or shut up?
On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: On Mon, 13 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: Total Hits 1339547 Total Files 1064536 Total Pages 324346 Total Visits 58178 Total KBytes 2712883 In other words, 2.7Gb in 8/9 days. I'm not sure I'd call that noise :-) It's irrelevant. The portal and idocs aren't being mirrored and the question was about mirrors. It's not irrelevant. The original question was a complaint about the ads and why we have them - this shows the amount of traffic we get for a small portion of the site which can give some idea how busy other bits of the sites might get. Go back and reread the end of it. The first part was about the ads, the second was about mirrors. As far as your numbers go, wait a few months and look again. Any time there's a major change it'll get busy and then settle out. Combine that with everyone talking about it and you'll have even more traffic as folks get curious and go look. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Katie Ward wrote: flame on In all honesty, I do not *want* Windows people to think that they're not running on the poor stepchild platform.If we go down that path, they'll start trying to run production databases on Windows, and then we'll get blamed for the instability of the platform, not to mention the likelihood that it ignores Unix semantics for fsync() and suchlike critical primitives. I have no objection to there being a Windows port that people can use to do SQL-client development on their laptops. But let us please not confuse this with an industrial-strength solution; nor give any level of support that might lead others to make such confusion. The MySQL guys made the right choice here: they don't want to buy into making Windows a grade-A platform, either. flame off regards, tom lane Wow. I've been listening to the pros and cons for a while, and they've been really interesting. However, to assume without ever using the native Windows port that it is automatically a poor stepchild is unbelievable. I believe that the port, as submitted, can be used as an industrial-strength solution. I challenge you all to prove me wrong, but until you do, please lay off the assumptions. The only assumption I see being made here is this: I believe that the port, as submitted, can be used as an industrial-strength solution. I see no evidence to support this claim. If you have this evidence, feel free to share it with the rest of us. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, James Hubbard wrote: Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: The code's been available for what a week or two? Do you actually think that can be considered conclusive by any standard? Public beta testing (but closed source) has been going on for some months. So you've been running these unscientific tests you're telling us about being so successful for some months? Vince. I open my mouth and insert foot: Where do I get any of these scientific tests to determine if the latest and greatest 7.3.x will not fall down on my favorite Unix? If you're looking for a tool to test with, there was an announcement here not too long ago for one. But it goes beyond just running a test suite against it. Many of the available tools are designed to test what works and how well it works. Testing goes beyond that. You want to know what doesn't work, does the database return to a normal state if the unthinkable happens (eg. Tom's suggestion of yanking the plug), how about loss of network communications or sudden intermittant communication? Or the function that may not be checking its input that well - when it fails is everything ok or did that transaction someone else was in the middle of get blown away? A gal that used to do MSDOS testing for MS (Jen something, don't recall her last name) would pull a floppy out in the middle of read or write and found a certain sequence would either hose the floppy, get the system to reboot (don't recall the exact details, it's been YEARS). Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Vince Vielhaber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 January 2003 16:27 To: Katie Ward Cc: Tom Lane; Curtis Faith; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System The only assumption I see being made here is this: I believe that the port, as submitted, can be used as an industrial-strength solution. I see no evidence to support this claim. If you have this evidence, feel free to share it with the rest of us. I hammered the betas on a couple of test boxes running Windows XP and .NET Server of various (pre)releases and found it to be rock solid, performing comparably to my Linux based systems. The Cygwin version fell over quite quickly under the same tests. I'll admit my methods were not particularly scientific, but over the last few weeks I've had far more grief from DB2 and SQL Server than I did from the PostgreSQL native betas. hammering the betas is a far cry from an industrial-strength solution. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: hammering the betas is a far cry from an industrial-strength solution. Have you a better suggestion? Seems a bit catch 22 if testing won't prove it's good and we can't use it until we know it's good... Still, industrial strength testing or not, it's more reliable than the SQL 2000 and DB2 installations I have here. Well you have a beta running, load it up with data and let a few hundred clients loose on it. I've seen win2k BSOD with less stress than that. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Katie Ward wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vince Vielhaber Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 11:45 AM To: Dave Page Cc: Katie Ward; Tom Lane; Curtis Faith; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: hammering the betas is a far cry from an industrial-strength solution. Have you a better suggestion? Seems a bit catch 22 if testing won't prove it's good and we can't use it until we know it's good... Still, industrial strength testing or not, it's more reliable than the SQL 2000 and DB2 installations I have here. Well you have a beta running, load it up with data and let a few hundred clients loose on it. I've seen win2k BSOD with less stress than that. Vince. We did that as part of our internal testing, using the ATM database and a dual-processor machine. We tried both with clients connecting and disconnection quickly, and with large numbers of clients that stayed connected for a while, all extremely active. Native Win32 performed comparably with running the same test on comparable machines on LINUX. Nothing crashed. The code's been available for what a week or two? Do you actually think that can be considered conclusive by any standard? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: I would be interested to know how many windows servers those that are against a windows port of PostgreSQL have or do manage, and how experienced they are with that platform... At this point I'm not for or against. But you're going to have to do more than a weeks worth of unscientific testing to prove your point and move from assumptions to facts. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: The code's been available for what a week or two? Do you actually think that can be considered conclusive by any standard? Public beta testing (but closed source) has been going on for some months. So you've been running these unscientific tests you're telling us about being so successful for some months? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Ron Mayer wrote: Cool irony in the automated .sig on the mailinglist software... On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Vince Vielhaber wrote: ... hammering the betas is a far cry from an industrial-strength solution. ... TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster Sounds like you're basically saying is _do_ 'kill -9' the postmaster... and make sure it recovers gracefully when testing for an industrial- strength solution. Not what I said at all. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Katie Ward wrote: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Katie Ward wrote: On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: hammering the betas is a far cry from an industrial-strength solution. Have you a better suggestion? Seems a bit catch 22 if testing won't prove it's good and we can't use it until we know it's good... Still, industrial strength testing or not, it's more reliable than the SQL 2000 and DB2 installations I have here. Well you have a beta running, load it up with data and let a few hundred clients loose on it. I've seen win2k BSOD with less stress than that. Vince. We did that as part of our internal testing, using the ATM database and a dual-processor machine. We tried both with clients connecting and disconnection quickly, and with large numbers of clients that stayed connected for a while, all extremely active. Native Win32 performed comparably with running the same test on comparable machines on LINUX. Nothing crashed. The code's been available for what a week or two? Do you actually think that can be considered conclusive by any standard? Vince. I am the lead developer on the native windows port. I have been using and testing it for 6 months. However, what testing is ever conclusive?. It is just evidence that more testing by more people should be done. Testing to what standards? IMO the lead developer performing these tests is even less than scientific. There are things you will always know that someone else testing it won't know and they will be more likely to try something that you wouldn't that may show less than stellar results. You've tried what's supposed to work, but how much effort have you put in that's not supposed to work? Are you that sure that if you were to feed an oddball query that will simply close the backend on a unix platform won't send your OS off into the weeds? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Vince Vielhaber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 29 January 2003 17:10 To: Dave Page Cc: Katie Ward; Tom Lane; Curtis Faith; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System On Wed, 29 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: I would be interested to know how many windows servers those that are against a windows port of PostgreSQL have or do manage, and how experienced they are with that platform... At this point I'm not for or against. But you're going to have to do more than a weeks worth of unscientific testing to prove your point and move from assumptions to facts. No problem with that. Likewise however, it'd be nice if people weren't against the windows port until testing had proved it didn't work properly. Would we have the same general reactions to a revived VMS port or one for OS/2 (not counting Tom's which is an valid concern over a specific issue)? I suspect not... VMS and OS/2 have proven track records of being rugged. Windows has always had a reputation of being fragile. And yes, I have extensive experience with all three. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System - My final thoughts
Dave, Lamar and Katie can cheer now 'cuze this is the last comment I'm going to make on this. All others will be ignored, probably. The one thing I haven't seen from Dave, Lamar or Katie on this is reputation. You're all for the PostgreSQL name going on it but I have yet to see any of you so sure of yourselves that you'd put your own name on it. The license allows it. Red Hat did it. I see no PageSQL or KatieSQL or even an Oh-Win SQL being offered up. Yet all three of you are advocating that the PostgreSQL stamp of approval should be immediately placed on it (ok, Lamar may not be as in favor as the Dave and Katie). Without documented testing and sufficient warnings until enough history is banked, I don't think a native windows port should be given any kind of seal of approval. After that, what about keeping the code current? In a year or so will it suffer from bit-rot and be the source of complaints? Are there going to be security concerns surrounding it? Is there going to be a bunch of scrambling going on to put out a patch when the latest active-x bug hoses the data dir? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Dave Page wrote: -Original Message- From: Vince Vielhaber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 January 2003 19:20 To: Lamar Owen Cc: Tom Lane; Dave Page; Ron Mayer; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System I've been on both sides know that the windows user/developer doesn't hold things to the same standards as the unix user/developer. I ought to plonk you for a comment like that. Especially coming from the person who's crap I've been trying to sort out for the last couple of months. Grow up Dave. That shit doesn't belong on this or any other list. If you didn't want to do something, you shouldn't have volunteered to do it. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, mlw wrote: Like it or not, if PG releases a very good Win32 port, ALL the unixoids combined will be out numbered by the windoze users. Now that's certainly something to look forward to. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Lamar Owen wrote: Vince, I would say that we, the developers of PostgreSQL, are then not qualified to test our own releases for the reasons you mentioned that Katie should not test her own releases. Of course that's ridiculous -- often the developers can do a better job of testing because they know better than the regular user would about what conditions can cause crashes. Don't twist what I said. My statement about Katie was that she has a knowledge of the port and the OS to the point where there are things that she knows are wrong to do and would avoid doing it. In the case of this port the idea is to make sure that those things that may cause the backend to close are something that SHOULD be tested. By their own admission they haven't been doing that. All they've done is loaded it down and made sure it continued to work. The other ports have a long history, the windows port has ZERO history. If you're being sickened now, how sick would you be if something went wrong and you started seeing things all over /. and other sites going on about how PG crashed and blew away some corporation's data and half the OS away on something that at worse should have only caused the backend to close? It won't matter that it was running on windows, it would have been a native port that was blessed by the PGDG. If anything, the resistance to this testing should sicken you. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [mail] Re: [HACKERS] Windows Build System
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Lamar Owen wrote: On Thursday 30 January 2003 13:17, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Lamar Owen wrote: Vince, I would say that we, the developers of PostgreSQL, are then not qualified to test our own releases for the reasons you mentioned that Katie should not test her own releases. Don't twist what I said. My statement about Katie was that she has a knowledge of the port and the OS to the point where there are things that she knows are wrong to do and would avoid doing it. Then she would not be honestly testing, would she? She consider herself testing to her own standards as a windows user/ developer. Is that enough? IMO, No. I've been on both sides know that the windows user/developer doesn't hold things to the same standards as the unix user/developer. admission they haven't been doing that. All they've done is loaded it down and made sure it continued to work. The other ports have a long history, the windows port has ZERO history. Do we do powerfail testing on a unix-type port now? That's not testing the port, incidentally, it's testing the OS, sync semantics aside. Do we hold the other ports to the same standards? Yes, the Win32 port is a substantial change from the Unix ports. Yes, it needs robust testing. But all the ports need that same grade of testing, not just Win32. And that type of testing is not being rigorously done on any port now, unless it is being done by a few that aren't announcing that they are doing it. Since you're pretty much ignoring my reasoning, I'll give you the same consideration. The history of windows as a platform has shown itself to be rather fragile compared to unix. Before you respond to this, read Tom Lane's response and reply to that. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Win32 Powerfail testing - results
On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dave Page wrote: Well the results are finally in. Hopefully we can concentrate on putting them right, rather than having a round of told you so's :-) I modified the test program slightly to improve the consistency checks. The updated version is attached. [...] Run | Errors Detected = 07 | COUNT CHECK - Duplicate or missing rows detected (10262)!! 09 | DISTINCT CHECK - Duplicate or missing rows detected (9893)!! | COUNT CHECK - Duplicate or missing rows detected (9893)!! 14 | COUNT CHECK - Duplicate or missing rows detected (10024)!! Out of curiousity, what was required to return things to normal again? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On 13 Feb 2003, Oliver Elphick wrote: On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 18:45, Bruce Momjian wrote: Oliver Elphick wrote: On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 17:52, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Seems to me that if FHS allows such a mess, it's reason enough to avoid compliance. Either that or those of you who build for distributions are making an ill advised change. Simply because the distribution makes the decision to add PostgreSQL, or some other package, to it's distribution doesn't make it a requirement to change the location of the config files. ... I really don't see why there is such a not-invented-here mentality about this issue. I say again, standards-compliance is the best way. It makes life easier for everyone if standards are followed. Don't we pride ourselves on being closer to the SQL spec than other databases? Any way, if PostgreSQL stays as it is, I will continue to have to ensure that initdb creates symlinks to /etc/postgresql/, as happens now. It doesn't have anything to do with not-invented-here, which is a common refrain by people who don't like our decisions, like Why don't you use mmap()? Oh, it's because I thought of it and you didn't. Does anyone seriously believe that is the motiviation of anyone in this project! I certainly don't. My apologies. I withdraw the comment, which was provoked mostly by Vince's response, quoted above. I agree that it is not characteristic of the project. I certainly wasn't trying to provoke anything. It just seems odd to me that when the distribution installs a package and places it's config files in /etc and later the admin happens to upgrade by the instructions with the package, it's acceptable for the config files to now be in two places and you don't find it confusing. What happens when a new admin comes on and tries to figure out which config file is which? Ever try to figure out where the hell Pine's config really is? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On 14 Feb 2003, Martin Coxall wrote: If you are interested in reading a contrary position, you can read Berstein's arguments for his recommended way to install services at: http://cr.yp.to/unix.html But since DJB is a class-A monomaniac, he may not be the best person to listen to. /var/qmail/control for qmail configuration files? Yeah, good one, DJB. I'm guessing that rather than reading it the above mentioned link you chose to waste our time with this instead. Good one, MC. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On 14 Feb 2003, Martin Coxall wrote: On Fri, 2003-02-14 at 14:21, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On 14 Feb 2003, Martin Coxall wrote: If you are interested in reading a contrary position, you can read Berstein's arguments for his recommended way to install services at: http://cr.yp.to/unix.html But since DJB is a class-A monomaniac, he may not be the best person to listen to. /var/qmail/control for qmail configuration files? Yeah, good one, DJB. I'm guessing that rather than reading it the above mentioned link you chose to waste our time with this instead. Good one, MC. Yeah, I've read it several times, and have often linked to it as an example of why one should be wary of DJB's software. It seems to me that since DJB doesn't follow his own advice regarding the filesystem hierarchy (see both qmail and djbdns), it'd be odd for him to expect anyone else to. *Especially* seing as he's a bit mental. (I'm not going to take this any more. I demand cross-platform compatibility!) I seriously doubt your ability to judge anyone's mental stability. I can also see that you prefer cross-platform INcompatibility. Your position and mindset are now crystal clear. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On 13 Feb 2003, Oliver Elphick wrote: What your comments strongly suggest to me is that projects like PostgreSQL and pine, along with everything else, should comply with FHS; then there will be no confusion because everyone will be following the smae standards. Messes arise when people ignore standards; we have all seen the dreadful examples of MySQL and the Beast, haven't we? Actually FHS says the opposite. If the distribution installs PostgreSQL then the config files belong in /etc/postgresql. If the admin does then they belong in /usr/local/etc/postgresql. FHS is out of their tree. If PostgreSQL or any other package is not critical to the basic operation of the operating system, it's config files shouldn't be polluting /etc. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Lamar Owen wrote: On Thursday 13 February 2003 18:07, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Actually FHS says the opposite. If the distribution installs PostgreSQL then the config files belong in /etc/postgresql. If the admin does then they belong in /usr/local/etc/postgresql. FHS is out of their tree. If PostgreSQL or any other package is not critical to the basic operation of the operating system, it's config files shouldn't be polluting /etc. PostgreSQL is as critical as PHP, Apache, or whatever other package is being backended by PostgreSQL. If the package is provided by the distributor, consider it part of the OS. If it isn't, well, it isn't. You completely miss my point, but lately you've been real good at that. Can the system boot without PHP, Apache, PostgreSQL, Mysql and/or Pine? Can the root user log in without PHP, Apache, PostgreSQL, Mysql and/or Pine? Can any user log in without PHP, Apache, PostgreSQL, Mysql and/or Pine? Note, I'm not even including an MTA here. I said BASIC OPERATION. If a package is not critical as I just outlined, it shouldn't matter who installed it. After the last go around with you Lamar, this will be my last response to you on this. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On 13 Feb 2003, Oliver Elphick wrote: On Thu, 2003-02-13 at 12:00, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Which means if the the vendor installed Postgresql (say, the Red Hat Database) you'd expect config files to be in /etc. If the postgresql is compiled from source by local admin, you might look somewhere in /usr/local. Then why not ~postgres/etc ?? Or substitute ~postgres with the db admin user you (or the distro) decided on at installation time. Gives a common location no matter who installed it or where it was installed. Because it doesn't comply with FHS. All projects should remember that they coexist with many others and should do their best to stick to common standards. The default config file location should be set as a parameter to ./configure, which should default to /usr/local/etc/postgresql. Those of us who build for distributions will change it to /etc/postgresql. Seems to me that if FHS allows such a mess, it's reason enough to avoid compliance. Either that or those of you who build for distributions are making an ill advised change. Simply because the distribution makes the decision to add PostgreSQL, or some other package, to it's distribution doesn't make it a requirement to change the location of the config files. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] location of the configuration files
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, J. M. Brenner wrote: Christopher Kings-Lynne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, here's one: most Unix systems store all of the configuration files in a well known directory: /etc. These days it's a hierarchy of directories with /etc as the root of the hierarchy. When an administrator is looking for configuration files, the first place he's going to look is in /etc and its subdirectories. No goddammit - /usr/local/etc. Why can't the Linux community respect history It is the ONE TRUE PLACE dammit!!! Well, to the extent that you're serious, you understand that a lot of people feel that /usr/local should be reserved for stuff that's installed by the local sysadmin, and your vendor/distro isn't supposed to be messing with it. Which means if the the vendor installed Postgresql (say, the Red Hat Database) you'd expect config files to be in /etc. If the postgresql is compiled from source by local admin, you might look somewhere in /usr/local. Then why not ~postgres/etc ?? Or substitute ~postgres with the db admin user you (or the distro) decided on at installation time. Gives a common location no matter who installed it or where it was installed. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] ILIKE
On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, mlw wrote: I am not familiar with ILIKE, but I suspect that if people are moving from a platfrom on which it exists, or even creatingmulti-platform applications, there may be a substancial amount of code that may use it. I don't know about other platforms but I've been using it in scripts for a couple of years. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] ILIKE
On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Peter Eisentraut wrote: Tom Lane writes: My feeling too. Whatever you may think of its usefulness, it's been a documented feature since 7.1. It's a bit late to reconsider. It's never too late for new users to reconsider. It's also never too late to change your application of performance is not satisfactory. And if performance is satisfactory? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] ILIKE
On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Justin Clift wrote: Peter Eisentraut wrote: Tom Lane writes: My feeling too. Whatever you may think of its usefulness, it's been a documented feature since 7.1. It's a bit late to reconsider. It's never too late for new users to reconsider. It's also never too late to change your application of performance is not satisfactory. Well, ILIKE has been a feature for quite some time and the amount of negative feedback we've been receiving about upgrade problems makes me feel that _removing_ it would be detrimental. (i.e. broken applications) As an alternative to _removing_ it, would a feasible idea be to transparently alias it to something else, say a specific type of regex query or something? Why screw with it for the sake of screwing with it? Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
[HACKERS] DBTools' DBManager Information Leak Vulnerability (fwd)
FYI. Vince. -- Fast, inexpensive internet service 56k and beyond! http://www.pop4.net/ http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com Internet radio: It's not file sharing, it's just radio. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 04:08:30 -0300 From: Ignacio Vazquez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: DBTools' DBManager Information Leak Vulnerability Centaura Technologies Security Research Lab Advisory Product Name: DBTools DBManager Professional Systems: Windows 9x/NT/2000/2003 Server Severity: Medium Remote: No Category: Information Leak Vendor URL: http://www.dbtools.com.br Advisory Author: Ignacio Vazquez Advisory URL: http://www.centaura.com.ar/infosec/adv/dbmanagerpro.txt Revised-Date: March 7, 2003 Advisory Code: CTADVILB004 .:Introduction The DBManager Professional is the most powerful application for MySQL and PostgreSQL It is rich of features. It comes in two editions to help you choose the one that will fit your needs: Freeware and Enterprise .: Impact Any local user can retrieve MySQL and PostgreSQL connection information like DB hosts, usernames and passwords without any restriction. .: Description DBTools DBManager Pro stores its link information in the sys_servers table located in catalog.mdb (MS JET database) file usually within the DATA directory in the program folder. (C:\Program Files\DBTools Software\DBManager Professional\DATA) This table contains server_id, server_name, server_type, host, and port, user and password fields, from where a local attacker can gain useful information regarding the db engines. The fields in this database are NOT encrypted, letting any user with read access retrieve this data. catalog.mdb is readable to all users by default so virtually any user within the system can open this file. .: Official Fix Information The vendor has been contacted but no fix has been released yet. - Ignacio Vazquez [EMAIL PROTECTED] Director of Technology Security Labs Manager Centaura Technologies http://www.centaura.com.ar ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] [PATCHES] ANSI Compliant Inserts
On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I recall that this was the behavior we agreed we wanted. IMHO, it would be conditional on the INSERT ... VALUES (DEFAULT) capability being provided. I'm not sure if that is there yet. That is there now. Do you recall when this was discussed before? I couldn't remember if there'd been any real discussion or not. It has to be at least a year, Tom. I brought it up in hackers after I got bit by it. I had a rather long insert statement and missed a value in the middle somewhere which shifted everything by one. It was agreed that it shouldn't happen but I don't recall what else was decided. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Vote on SET in aborted transaction
On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Michael Loftis wrote: Vote number 1 -- ROLL BACK I agree.. Number 1 - ROLL BACK Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, would people please vote on how to handle SET in an aborted transaction? This vote will allow us to resolve the issue and move forward if needed. In the case of: SET x=1; BEGIN; SET x=2; query_that_aborts_transaction; SET x=3; COMMIT; at the end, should 'x' equal: 1 - All SETs are rolled back in aborted transaction 2 - SETs are ignored after transaction abort 3 - All SETs are honored in aborted transaction ? - Have SETs vary in behavior depending on variable Our current behavior is 2. Please vote and I will tally the results. ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Vote totals for SET in aborted transaction
On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: My guess is that we should implement #1 and see what feedback we get in 7.3. IMHO, it hasn't been thought out well enough to be implemented yet ... the options have been, but which to implement haven't ... right now, #1 is proposing to implement something that goes against what *at least* one of DBMS does ... so now you have programmers coming from that environment expecting one thing to happen, when a totally different thing results ... But, they don't expect our current behavior either (which is really weird). At least I haven't seen anyone complaining about our current weird behavior, and we are improving it, at least as our users request it. In fact, Oracle doesn't implement rollback for DROP TABLE, and we clearly wanted that feature, so do we ignore rollback for SET too? I guess I don't see it as a killer if we can do better than Oracle, or at least most of our users (including you) think it is better than Oracle. If someone wants Oracle behavior after we do #1, we can add it, right? I've often wondered why the but that's how the other RDBMS is doing it is only used when convenient. Case in point is the issue (that's been resolved) with the insert into foo(foo.bar) ... where every one I checked accepted it, but that wasn't a good enough reason for us to support it. Until the fact that applications that were using that syntax was causing PostgreSQL not to be used was the issue resolved. Now I'm seeing the but that's the way Oracle does it excuse being used to justify a change. Can we try for some consistancy? Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Vote totals for SET in aborted transaction
On Thu, 25 Apr 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc is suggesting we may want to match Oracle somehow. I just want to have our SET work on a sane manner. As do I. But to Marc's suggestion, we discussed an oracle compatibility factor in the past and it was dismissed. I seem to recall someone even volunteering to write it for us. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Majordomo aliases
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Thomas Lockhart wrote: OK, I *really* need to get my majordomo account fixed up to keep from stalling posts from my various accounts to the various lists. I think that I can enter some aliases etc to allow this; where do I find out how? Searching the -hackers archives brought no joy since the obvious keywords show up in every stinkin' mail message ever run through the mailing list :/ Any help would be appreciated... You can always subscribe to a list and do aset nomail Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Majordomo aliases
On Tue, 11 Jun 2002, Tom Lane wrote: There's fairly extensive help available from the list 'bot itself. Try sending a message with help help set to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (There are a bunch of other help topics but I'm guessing set is most likely the command you need.) A low-tech solution would be to subscribe all your addresses and then set all but one to nomail. Not sure if there's a better way. The better way *was* loophole, but it's gone. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] Our archive searching stinks
On Thu, 20 Jun 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, I have finally decided that our archive searching stinks. I have emails in my mailbox that don't appear in the archives. Our main site, http://archives.postgresql.org/ doesn't archive the 'patches' list. (It isn't listed on the main site, and I can't find postings via searching.) Also, why does it open a separate window for each email. That doesn't make any sense to me. My backup is Google, http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=engroup=comp.databases.postgresql, but that seems to be missing emails too. Our email/news link regulary drops messages and therefore Google can't see them. It isn't one thing, but a general lack of quality in this area. Heck, we had no usable archives for _months_. Is this really only important to me? Oh, I see FTS is back working at http://fts.postgresql.org/db/mw/. I like the output format, but all three are give me different results. However, fts is invisible because I can't find a link to it from anywhere on our web pages. I guess I am asking: Can our main archive start doing the patches list? Can it stop opening a new window for every email? Can we find out why the email/news gateway drops messages? Can we link to the fts site? The only thing I can help with is the fts link, but I'm hesitant to link to something that disappears. If it's going to be here and not go away again I'll be happy to add it. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On Tue, 25 Jun 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: Well hidden, but so far 86 have found it and subscribed to it *grin* It's on the subscription form. [snip] Vince, we can get -advocacy listed on the web site? There has been no traffic over there until now, but there are ppl subscribed to it ... all done. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] Postgres idea list
On 27 Jun 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: Vince, we can get -advocacy listed on the web site? There has been no traffic over there until now, but there are ppl subscribed to it ... all done. Any chance of getting a pgsql-patches link on archives.postgresql.org? I know the archives are created (I use them) but there is no obvious link. Secondly, could the links that do exist be ordered alphabetically? I have no idea who does what on archives. I just yell at Marc if something's broke. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html
Re: [HACKERS] I am being interviewed by OReilly
On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Christopher Browne wrote: And if there are 20 places that say It's officially spelled PostgreSQL, but you can _pronounce_ that 'p\O\st-gres', and here's the MP3 of Bruce saying it, that can cope with the situation nicely. For the record, the voice on the MP3 isn't Bruce. It's the voice of a professional broadcaster. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] I am being interviewed by OReilly
On Sat, 10 Aug 2002, Jeff MacDonald wrote: How long did it take you to teach him to say PostgreSQL ? :) Lessee, the conversation went something like this: Me: I need a wav file of you saying PostgreSQL. Him: PostgreSQL? Me: Yeah. Him: Ok, I'll get it to you later today. Then after I made it available someone else did the MP3 conversion and I put that there as well. He caught on pretty quick! :) Jeff. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Vince Vielhaber Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 6:31 AM To: Christopher Browne Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] I am being interviewed by OReilly On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Christopher Browne wrote: And if there are 20 places that say It's officially spelled PostgreSQL, but you can _pronounce_ that 'p\O\st-gres', and here's the MP3 of Bruce saying it, that can cope with the situation nicely. For the record, the voice on the MP3 isn't Bruce. It's the voice of a professional broadcaster. Vince. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] pgbash-2.4a.2 released
On Mon, 22 Jul 2002, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Would it be worth creating a list of postgres project like this somewhere on the postgres site? I had no idea this existed... It's been listed forever. http://www.us.postgresql.org/interfaces.html It's about the 17th one from the top. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] Virus Emails
On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: God, I go through 200+ of those almost daily as moderator ... imagine if we had the lists open? :) How do you prevent virus emails from coming in that look like they are from the intended person? Does the filter check only the envelope from and not the From: line? Don't filter, scan for viruses. McAfee finds it just fine. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Virus Emails
On Sun, 28 Jul 2002, Marc G. Fournier wrote: On 28 Jul 2002, Larry Rosenman wrote: On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 20:10, Marc G. Fournier wrote: God, I go through 200+ of those almost daily as moderator ... imagine if we had the lists open? :) I picked up a copy of McAfee's vscan for FreeBSD from one of my contract people, and have amavisd-milter running to prevent them from even getting in the door. Mayhaps pgsql.org should do the same? One of the many things on my list to do ... how do you find the vscan stuff? do you find it slows down email noticeably? pop4 doesn't even break a sweat and a ton of mail goes thru there every day. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command (send unregister YourEmailAddressHere to [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: [HACKERS] Virus Emails
On Wed, 31 Jul 2002, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: I would also like to know this! They don't mention it anywhere on their site! The FreeBSD command line version comes on the CD along with the windoze versions. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Marc G. Fournier Sent: Wednesday, 31 July 2002 2:20 AM To: Larry Rosenman Cc: Christopher Kings-Lynne; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Virus Emails Okay, this is sweet ... but can someone tell me where I 'Buy' a copy of uvscan? I've searched McAfee, but can't seem to find it in their eStore anywhere ... On 28 Jul 2002, Larry Rosenman wrote: On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 20:10, Marc G. Fournier wrote: God, I go through 200+ of those almost daily as moderator ... imagine if we had the lists open? :) I picked up a copy of McAfee's vscan for FreeBSD from one of my contract people, and have amavisd-milter running to prevent them from even getting in the door. Mayhaps pgsql.org should do the same? On Sat, 27 Jul 2002, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: Hi guys, I seem to be getting virus emails that pretend to be one of your guys. eg. I get them from T.Ishii and N.Conway, etc. Anyone out there on the list who should perhaps scan their computer? :) Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly -- Larry Rosenman http://www.lerctr.org/~ler Phone: +1 972-414-9812 E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/users-lounge/docs/faq.html Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] cvs checkout pgsql
On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... is once more 'normal' ... Uh, it's completely broken as far as I can tell. $ pwd /home/postgres/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump $ cvs status cvs server: Examining . cvs server: failed to create lock directory for `/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump' (/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump/#cvs.lock): No such file or directory cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump' cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up $ Also, http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql/ isn't working. This makes it a little difficult to get any work done :-( What'r you typin about? It works fine. Ok, ok.. It does *NOW*. :) There's probably still stuff that's broke that I haven't discovered yet. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] cvs checkout pgsql
On 1 Aug 2002, Rod Taylor wrote: On Thu, 2002-08-01 at 15:33, Vince Vielhaber wrote: On Thu, 1 Aug 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Marc G. Fournier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ... is once more 'normal' ... Uh, it's completely broken as far as I can tell. $ pwd /home/postgres/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump $ cvs status cvs server: Examining . cvs server: failed to create lock directory for `/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump' (/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump/#cvs.lock): No such file or directory cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/cvsroot/pgsql/src/bin/pg_dump' cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up $ Also, http://developer.postgresql.org/cvsweb.cgi/pgsql/ isn't working. This makes it a little difficult to get any work done :-( What'r you typin about? It works fine. Ok, ok.. It does *NOW*. :) There's probably still stuff that's broke that I haven't discovered yet. Well, of course that specific URL doesn't work because it's actually pgsql-server. But the developer's web page is updated with the new info. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open 7.3 items
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Tom Lane wrote: Lamar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Appending '@template1' to unadorned usernames, and giving inherited rights across the installation to users with template1 rights? Then you have the unadorned 'lowen' becomes 'lowen@template1' -- but lowen@pari wouldn't have access to template1, right? If not, standard things like psql -l won't work for lowen@pari. I don't think we can get away with a scheme that depends on disallowing access to template1 for most people. It should also be noted that the whole point of this little project was to do something *simple* ... checking access to some other database to decide what we will allow is getting a bit far afield from simple. Hate to complicate things more, but back to a global username, say you have user lowen that should have access to all databases. What happens if there's already a lowen@somedb that's an unprivileged user. Assuming lowen is a db superuser, what happens in somedb? If there's a global user lowen and you try to create a lowen@somedb later, will it be allowed? One possible simplification would be to make the username the full username lowen@somedb, lowen, ... Right now we can create a lowen@somedb and it's a different user than lowen and we can already restrict a user to one database, can't we? Hmmm. Just checked and I guess not - I thought we had a record type of user. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] Open 7.3 items
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Lamar Owen wrote: On Wednesday 14 August 2002 03:29 pm, Vince Vielhaber wrote: Hate to complicate things more, but back to a global username, say you have user lowen that should have access to all databases. What happens if there's already a lowen@somedb that's an unprivileged user. Assuming lowen is a db superuser, what happens in somedb? If there's a global user lowen and you try to create a lowen@somedb later, will it be allowed? If the user 'lowen' is then expanded to 'lowen@template1' it would be stored that way -- and lowen@template1 is different from lowen@pari, for instance. The lowen@template1 user could be a superuser and lowen@pari might not -- but they become distinct users. Although I do understand the difficulty if the FQDU isn't stored in full in the appropriate places. So I guess the solution is that wherever a user name is to be stored, the fully qualified form must be used and checked against, with @template1 being a 'this user is everywhere' shorthand. But maybe I'm just misunderstanding the implementation. I may be too, but what's wrong with just lowen being shorthand for 'this user is everywhere'? Does it also mean that we'd have a user postgres@template1? Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open 7.3 items
On Wed, 14 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about if we just document that they have to create a postgres@template1 user before flipping the switch. That way, there is no special user, no PG_INSTALLER file, and no double-tests for user names. ... and no useful superuser account; if you can't connect to anything except template1 then you ain't much of a superuser. To get around that you'd have to create postgres@db1, postgres@db2, postgres@db3, etc etc. This would be a huge pain in the neck; I think it'd render the scheme impractical. (Keep in mind that anybody who'd be interested in this feature at all has probably got quite a number of databases to contend with.) Yes, I hear you, but that brings us around full-circle to the original patch with one super-user who is the install user. I don't know where else to go with the patch at this point. I think increasing the number of 'global' users is polluting the namespace too much, and having none seems to be unappealing. This is why I am back to just the install user. I wouldn't be in favor of that. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [HACKERS] Open 7.3 items
On Thu, 15 Aug 2002, Bruce Momjian wrote: OK, no one complained/commented on my idea of having global users have a trailing '@', so here is a patch that implements that. It has the advantages of: Probably because not everyone saw it. I know I didn't. This entire issue is growing more and more complex. How about a configure item to not even compile it in? Or better yet, a configure item to put it there with the default off. Vince. -- == Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking http://www.camping-usa.com http://www.cloudninegifts.com http://www.meanstreamradio.com http://www.unknown-artists.com == ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
