[HACKERS] always denying corruption
Marc Munro wrote: For the record, here are the results of our (ongoing) inevstigation into the index/heap corruption problems I reported a couple of weeks ago. We were able to trigger the problem with kernels 2.6.16, 2.6.17 and 2.6.18.rc1, with 2.6.16 seeming to be the most flaky. By replacing the NFS-mounted netapp with a fibre-channel SAN, we have eliminated the problem on all kernels. From this, it would seem to be an NFS bug introduced post 2.6.14, though we cannot rule out a postgres bug exposed by unusual timing issues. Our starting systems are: Sun v40z 4 x Dual Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 875 Kernel 2.6.16.14 #8 SMP x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux (and others) kernel boot option: elevator=deadline 16 Gigs of RAM postgresql-8.0.8-1PGDG Bonded e1000/tg3 NICs with 8192 MTU. Slony 1.1.5 NetApp FAS270 OnTap 7.0.3 Mounted with the NFS options rw,nfsvers=3,hard,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,timeo=600,tcp,noac Jumbo frames 8192 MTU. All postgres data and logs are stored on the netapp. All tests results were reproduced with postgres 8.0.8 __ Marc On Fri, 2006-06-30 at 23:20 -0400, Tom Lane wrote: Marc Munro [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We tried all of these suggestions and still get the problem. Nothing interesting in the log file so I guess the Asserts did not fire. Not surprising, it was a long shot that any of those things were really broken. But worth testing. We are going to try experimenting with different kernels now. Unless anyone has any other suggestions. Right at the moment I have no better ideas :-( regards, tom lane On a good stock day, some levity is justified. How are hackers like politicians? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.1/390 - Release Date: 7/17/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate subscribe-nomail command to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so that your message can get through to the mailing list cleanly
Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features status
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Joshua D. Drake wrote: I think we should drop the term usability as a selling part of the PR and push it into further description.. Instead we should use a slightly more expensive word (think 50 cents, not 5). :) Fine, I am all ears. Also, a lot of people are thinking usability improvements aren't a big item, but they are. I had a press person ask during the 8.0 release, You have a lot of large features in 8.0, but what is there for the ordinary database user?. At that time all we had was COPY CSV. This release will have a lot of those usability improvements. I don't disagree with your thought process and I full agree :). I am just saying we should spice it up a bit :) H PostgreSQL has showed an unprecedented commitment to all skill levels of database developers. With the release of 8.2 the group has focused on refinement and usability. Features such as ... add to the already impressive list of enterprise class features such as ... Sounds very good, and that was my goal, that we get a focus idea for the release, I think that is it. As I remember, 8.0 was enterprise features, and 8.1 was performance. Quick reword: With the release of 8.2, PostgreSQL has shown an unprecedented commitment to all skill levels of database developers. The 8.2 version of PostgreSQL has focused on refinement and usability with features such as ... Adding to the already impressive list of enterprise class features such as ... Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake I am interrested in finding out what you folks mean by usability and refinement. How do you measure it? These seem to me to be unmeasurable hackneyed terms with little intrinsic meaning! So could you say something like: the New Postgresql, version 8.2, building on its reputation of sheer power and ACID compliance, now implements feature 1, which provides benefit 1, plus feature 2, which leads to benefit 2, plus etc. thereby maximizing overall ease of use. ?? WE tend to speak of features, now is a good time to speak of benefits to the dba, benefits for upgrading to an existing project, etc. The New Postgresql 8,2 will increase speed of response by x %, ad hoc queries will be x % faster, etc. I know I am being simplistic, but the benefits need to blurt out, and be immediately recognizable as such to the majority of players. JMUETCW. Michael -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 8/3/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features status
Joshua D. Drake wrote: I am interrested in finding out what you folks mean by usability and refinement. How do you measure it? These seem to me to be unmeasurable hackneyed terms with little intrinsic meaning! Yep you are absolutely right. That is what press releases are all about. So could you say something like: the New Postgresql, version 8.2, building on its reputation of sheer power and ACID compliance, now implements feature 1, which provides benefit 1, plus feature 2, which leads to benefit 2, plus etc. thereby maximizing overall ease of use. ?? WE tend to speak of features, now is a good time to speak of benefits to the dba, benefits for upgrading to an existing project, etc. If they don't know by reading the terms, then they will want to buy reading the 50 cent, fancy words. The New Postgresql 8,2 will increase speed of response by x %, ad hoc queries will be x % faster, etc. I know I am being simplistic, but the benefits need to blurt out, and be immediately recognizable as such to the majority of players. JMUETCW. Michael Percentages never work because it depends on a specific work load, specific design, specific hardware etc... Joshua D. Drake Josh, percentages, like almost anything, do work in the right context, in this case, that of the testimonial, something postgresql hasn't emphasized IMHO. If ten to 20 projects were treated as real and realistic case studies, with an in-depth description of the project, and how the NEW Postgresql effected these projects,and these were featured one after another, daily for an entire month, there would be major play in the news. By talking in depth about specific projects, we relate to the actual production users own daily experiences, especiually if % can be translated into dollars. For instance: I Adapted the NEW Postgresql 8.2 in my online e-commerce website and save $1,343.45 per month in or: The Sheer Speed of such an ACID compliant ORDBMS as the NEW Postgresql 8.2, especially in danling xnxnxnxn enabled our company to ... I am just brainstorming, I lack the db expertise, but real life stroies are powerful creatures with a life of their own. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.5/407 - Release Date: 8/3/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features status
Can you guys conceive of the thousands of hours of chat you guys are racking upinstead of real hacking because you have an inadequate working structure? This is by far the chattiest and least worthwhile listserv in the bsd world. Bar none. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/411 - Release Date: 8/7/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: BugTracker (Was: Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features status)
Marc G. Fournier wrote: On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Alvaro Herrera wrote: I am suggesting that. I have heard all the old discussions about not using a bugtracker, but in all fairness, I think some of us have to create critical mass and get something started. I will install anything, and everything, if you can get some sort of concensus on which one to try / go with ... so far, all discussions have ended with nobody coming close to agreeing to anything :) Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN . [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.orgICQ . 7615664 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster quite frankly, I think this group needs the same kind of consensus found in Torvalds kernel group. Is anyone denying their approach gets better results!? No flatline there. JMUASFANPWWMR! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.10/418 - Release Date: 8/14/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: BugTracker (Was: Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features status)
Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote: We have three candidates already -- debbugs, RT and Gnats. The first has the advantage that was written by hackers, for hackers, so it doesn't have any of the insane for end users stuff which annoys so many people around here ;-) (On the other hand it does have some web stuff for generating reports, etc). Kill me now if I have to use GNATS :) Have you ever tried submitting a bug to the FreeBSD project? *shudder* That said, I'll live :) I have recently totally falling in love with Trac and its complete subversion integration. I'm not sure it supports PostgreSQL, and converting to subversion is probably a little too hardcore at the moment :) Chris ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend CVS users just rot away or are subverted. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.10/419 - Release Date: 8/15/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: BugTracker (Was: Re: [HACKERS] 8.2 features status)
Jim C. Nasby wrote: On Tue, Aug 15, 2006 at 10:43:12PM -0700, Josh Berkus wrote: Tom, These days I doubt there's anyone around the project who refuses to use a web browser at all. However, I still personally find it much more convenient to read and respond to mailing-list postings than to have to go and visit random web pages to find out if there's something I need to know about. So my current take on this would be that the bug tracker would have to have a reasonable output email capability, but I'd not necessarily insist on being able to input to it by mail. Red Hat's present bugzilla system could be described that way --- and while I can't say I'm in love with it, I can deal with it. Actually, if that's the only objection it's solved. RT will now allow you to create, comment on, modify, and close bugs by e-mail. And the RT team would be thrilled to have us using it, in theory enough to provide some setup help. There's one thing that RT doesn't do by e-mail (can't remember offhand) but that's a TODO for them so it should be fixed soon. So, if the only real requirement for a bug tracker is that we can handle it 100% by e-mail, and integrate it with the pgsql-bugs list, that is possible. Does Trac have similar capability? Reason I'm asking is that I think *eventually* it would be very useful to have trac's ability to link bugs, version control, wiki, etc. all together. I know it'll probably be quite some time before that happens, but I'm sure that if we go with RT it'll never happen. guys, just a sobering refrain from the troll audience -- establishing trac/subversion, as a formal mechanism within postgesql circles, would go a long way toward showing the real world out there that postgresql is professionalizing (I know) and systematizing, etc.ad infinitum. Let everyone identify bugs (keeps novices busy), the more the merrier! New classes of semi-programmers will arise, lets call them buggers, and bugger watchers, unless they know English very well, pretty soon, the system will get used by real programmers, because in the long run, it saves time, and gets results. And folks, lets learn from the goofs of the Freebsd crowd, and maybe even from the Torvalds gang. Michael -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.10.10/419 - Release Date: 8/15/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
[HACKERS] Replication
One person who commented on the The business of Postbrsql made this comment: Posted Aug 3, 2006 8:45 UTC (Thu) by subscriber *jgarzik* [Link http://lwn.net/Articles/193946/]Cluster immaturity. MySQL has been shipping a workable single-master replication+failover for quite a while now in most Linux distros. MySQL's multi-master solution, while requiring RAM (not disk) for storage, is also well-integrated and deployed in production. In contrast, the PostgreSQL team has chosen to provide hooks for replication and failover. This has led to a situation where there are multiple projects supporting replications/failover, none of which are production-ready nor shipped in a modern Linux distro. Modern systems *must* scale beyond a single computer, and the PostgreSQL support shipped in modern Linux distros is completely incapable of this. I really would appreciate a response. Thanks~ Michael -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 8/18/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
Re: [HACKERS] ISBN/ISSN/ISMN/EAN13 module
Bruce Momjian wrote: Do we want to replace our /contrib/isbn with this, or have it pgfoundry? --- Jeremy Kronuz wrote: I worked on this ISBN/ISSN/ISMN/EAN13 module about more than a year ago, and I was wondering if it could be made official, I honestly think it's better than the ISBN/ISSN currently included in the official release; plus mine would also probably support UPC codes and it already support the new ISBN13 codes. Check my old post: New ISBN/ISSN/ISMN/EAN13 module. at http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-hackers/2004-11/msg00153.php In that post I explain what the module does... I was also describing some problems I had, but the module it's working now. Please, share your thoughts. Kronuz. _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ -- Bruce Momjian [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseDBhttp://www.enterprisedb.com + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. + ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings As a publisher in the last throes of moving to 13 digits, I believe that this issue needs tgo be resolved before the ISBN deadline of January 2007. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 8/18/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 3: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq
Re: [HACKERS] ISBN/ISSN/ISMN/EAN13 module
Jeremy Kronuz wrote: I suppose having it to replace the current contrib/isbn would be a good option, this 13 digits ISBN will be the standard by 2007, and some publishers are already issuing 13 digit ISBN numbers since last year. The module I created uses int64 instead of strings, for the numbers, and thus the performance might be better too, though I haven't tested for speed. Please, let me know if it will be included as a contrib, as I have updated the ISBN range numbers to include the most recent ones. I do hope that your algorithm for generating 13 digits from 10 has been validated with isbn.org, since all the check digits will change. I believe it is crucial for postgresql to generate isbn codes in both 10 and 13 digits, and in the two separate ways required of publishers on their bar codes, with just the 10 digit input. This is just a special case for the overall classification system, so the initial 3 digit code for book publishers should not be hard wired. (I know, as very competent engineers you have thought of all this, I am just being obsessive.) Incidentally, we are looking to publish manuscripts across a widerange of subject areas, so if anyone has anything not committed to the big names let me know. We are not a vanity publisher and our cotract provides for 20 percent royalties. We publish under the Cretive Commons License. Our newest book Chess for Bright Children of any age is forthcoming. We got the idea for the title from the New Testament. MIchael -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 8/18/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives? http://archives.postgresql.org
Re: [HACKERS] ISBN/ISSN/ISMN/EAN13 module
Jeremy Kronuz wrote: Michael wrote: I do hope that your algorithm for generating 13 digits from 10 has been validated with isbn.org, since all the check digits will change. I believe it is crucial for postgresql to generate isbn codes in both 10 and 13 digits Indeed now that see the module it's finally close to be accepted as an official module, I'm verifying my algorithm against the one in the ISBN User Manual and all the current information I can get my hands into (I first created the module a couple years ago, and there wasn't as much information back then.) The module internally keeps all the numbers in EAN13 mode, and it only converts the numbers to ISBN when required or needed by the selected data type. and in the two separate ways required of publishers on their bar codes, with just the 10 digit input. This is just a special case for the overall classification system, so the initial 3 digit code for book publishers should not be hard wired. I got lost in what you said here, could you please be more specific? what is that about the initial 3 digit code you're mentioning? do you mean the two separate ways, you mean both ISBN and ISBN13 as in: ISBN-13: 978-1-873671-00-9 ISBN-10: 1-873671-00-8 ? Shortly, I'll be further improving the performance and doing some tweaking in other areas, as well as updating the ISBN hyphenation ranges and probably adding UPC support. I'm still not sure if to include hyphenations in the EAN13 codes as it seems it's not part of the standard, thus 0036000291452 and 9781873671009 would be to examples of how the EAN13 numbers would show without hyphenation Thanks for your concerns, Kronuz. Fools rush in where fools have been before - Unknown Get the new Windows Live Messenger! Try it! http://get.live.com/messenger/overview the 978 is the worldwide classification for book publishers. There is a complete schedule of 3 digit prefixes for all other types of products in the world, and it syncs withbthe NAIAC -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.5/425 - Release Date: 8/22/2006 ---(end of broadcast)--- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
