Re: [Pharo-dev] DateAndTime Offset Bug Proposal

[Max Leske]

Hi Sean,

On 8 April 2018 at 15:33:11, Sean P. DeNigris (s...@clipperadams.com) wrote:

I was bitten by this very annoying bug again. As most of us probably know
due
to the steady stream of confused ML posts in the past, the bug in summary is

that we have an incomplete timezone implementation that doesn't properly
take into account historical DST changes. This flares up without warning
especially when DST toggles. I created a wiki page to document the
situation: https://github.com/seandenigris/pharo/wiki/Time-Zone-Fiasco

Here's an example blowup: at 11:59pm before DST changes, eval aDate :=
'1/1/1901' asDate. Now, wait two minutes and at 12:01am eval self assert:
'1/1/1901' asDate = aDate and… whammo, an exception! The "different" offsets

render equal dates unequal depending on when the objects were created.

The more I think about it, the more I think that we should just assume UTC
for all Date[AndTime]s that don't explicitly specify an offset, rather than
pretend to set an offset which is only sometimes correct. More advanced
users can use one of the available libraries to get full timezone support.
What do you think?

I first wanted to fully agree with you but then I had to think back on the
times I've had to fight timestamp bugs when working with Pharo and
relational databases. A database will make its own assumptions about the
offset. From the PostgreSQL documentation (
https://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.1/static/datatype-datetime.html):

"For timestamp with time zone, the internally stored value is always in UTC
(Universal Coordinated Time, traditionally known as Greenwich Mean Time,
GMT). An input value that has an explicit time zone specified is converted
to UTC using the appropriate offset for that time zone. If no time zone is
stated in the input string, then it is assumed to be in the time zone
indicated by the system's timezone parameter, and is converted to UTC using
the offset for the timezone zone."

Assuming UTC is probably just as wrong as assuming the local time zone.
Maybe the problem is more about the interface of DateAndTime, where you
don't really have to care about the time zone offset until it bites you. If
the interface would force you to specify the time zone, then you'd be aware
from the beginning that it's something to take into account.


Cheers,

Max





-
Cheers,
Sean
-- 
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

[Thierry Goubier]

2018-04-09 2:18 GMT+02:00 Esteban A. Maringolo :
> Even if he is a troll, he pointed out many things that aren't given
> priority because we're building "next great stuff" and with the limited
> resource you either stop to world to fix what's already made or you move
> forward.
>
> And IMO it is true that the next great stuff is being built, a better
> paradigm, moldability, and whatnot, but that means that, for a while,
> tools, and the image itself won't be "rock solid", and since most things
> are not backportable or maintained (there are no resources to have LTS
> versions), it is hard to define what's the minimum rock-solid core on
> which to build upon.

I wonder if some things could be solved by taking a slightly different path...

- Non rock solid base could be cared for by debugging that allways work

- Not threaded image could be solved by "image sharing between processes"

- Multiple host windows would mean forking the image

Imagine a world where:
- The smalltalk debugger can remote debug via gdb(*) a locked image
(or one where you have crashed the world because you played with core
graphics stuff)...
- The smalltalk debugger can inject new code into a remote image via
gdb again (**).
- Two images can easily share objects with almost zero overhead(***)
- One image can easily keeps its code in sync with another one (object
duplication between images)

I know of TelePharo, and, after looking at the underlying
implementation, it's not good enough. The core undebuggability of the
platform is not solved (at all).

The undebuggability of the platform is a significant barrier. I worked
on the SmaCC GT debugger because my students were regularly locking
their images with it (usually something as simple as stepping over the
end of the computation) so I've added many, many guards, to try to
protect from that; I know think a strong limitation of exploring new
debug modes is mainly linked to the ease of locking your image with
it.

Regards,

Thierry

(*) gdb over serial talking to a boot eeprom equivalent, mapped with a
remapping of step to smalltalk instructions (like in a true debugger)
(**) So that, from that smalltalk over gdb debugger, you can fix,
compile and proceed
(***) And so, no story of running a "determine the right object graph
with more smalltalk code... ", that is too slow

> E.g. The infinite walkback error pointed in this screenshot
> https://i.imgur.com/7jiKIhd.png still chases me from time to time, and I
> remember having reported it a long time ago, and it was considered fixed.
>
> So I wouldn't feed the troll, but I woudln't kill the messenger either.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> On 07/04/2018 14:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> yeah the guy (martin whatever) is a troll, if I remember correctly its
>> the same dude we had on the reddit forum for Smalltalk that has been
>> attacking Pharo with pure lies. He is a typical troll that blows off
>> steam by annoying other people. I am with Stef with this one, the only
>> way to win against a troll is silence. I had a very recent experience
>> where the person in charge underestimated a troll, he overflown the
>> mailing list with negative, many people took the bait and tried to have
>> a civilized discussions with him, he drag it one for month until people
>> started abandoning the community and the community essentially died.
>>
>> I adviced them not to feed the troll but as in many other cases, people
>> dont even listen.
>>
>> Pharo is far from perfect, but this is not a logical discussion , its
>> pure troll tactic. Do not underestimate the power of a troll, it is more
>> powerful than you can imagine and feed on politeness and rationality.
>>
>> Don't feed the troll.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:13 PM p...@highoctane.be
>>  > > wrote:
>>
>> interruptible.. yes!
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier
>> mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> Le 07/04/2018 à 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo:
>> > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc
>> >
>> > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a
>> pity when
>> > tiny “minor” issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste.
>>
>> Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO.
>>
>> I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e.
>> a Cmd-.
>> that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help
>> development so
>> significantly and allow more experiments.
>>
>> I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as
>> possible
>> from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too
>> fast to
>> be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking
>> forward to
>> buildi

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Stephane Ducasse]

I will create one, because at the end I was the guy that showed the
moose meta model to lukas and pushed him when he started to work on
Magritte.
(magritte description described in themselves and general design are
lukas ideas).

Stef

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:06 PM, Peter Uhnák  wrote:
> Is this the canonical repo? I'm still depending on the version in
> SmalltalkHub.
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Stephane Ducasse 
> wrote:
>>
>> Ok when I will do a pass I will have a look. My goal is to improve for
>> Pharo.
>>
>> Stef
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris 
>> wrote:
>> > Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
>> >> I will work on magritte.
>> >
>> > Great, have a look at my fork [1], which contains many enhancements. I
>> > didn't port them back to the main library because they are only known to
>> > work in Pharo, I don't know of anyone maintaining from the Squeak side,
>> > and
>> > I didn't want to break it.
>> >
>> > 1. https://github.com/seandenigris/Magritte3
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -
>> > Cheers,
>> > Sean
>> > --
>> > Sent from:
>> > http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>> >
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Pharo 6.1 version

[Stephane Ducasse]

Thanks peter we should make this clearer.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:13 PM, Peter Uhnák  wrote:
>> But why it's not a 6.2 version? It would  be more clear since this is
>> continuation of version 6 with new changes. How one would revert to original
>> 6.1 if this new version isn't working for him?
>
>
> In the same way as any previous image version... e.g.
>
> Pharo 6 is actually Pharo 60508 and lower,
> Pharo 6.1 is Pharo 60509-60539,
> and Pharo 6.2 is Pharo 60540+
> (give or take couple of versions, don't remember the precise boundaries)
>
> and you can download any specific image version you want
> https://files.pharo.org/image/60/
>
> (it is a bit confusing, but Pharo 6 is not yet using git and the existing
> infrastructure is not keen on minor releases)
>
> Peter

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

[Stephane Ducasse]

Yes me too and this is on our todo. Because I hate it.
Now as usual the more we get help the faster we are. For example Pablo
rewrote the FT logic to use FFI instead of the unstable plugin.
And when he is doing this he is not doing something else.
Same of streams and many other.

Stef

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 2:18 AM, Esteban A. Maringolo
 wrote:
> Even if he is a troll, he pointed out many things that aren't given
> priority because we're building "next great stuff" and with the limited
> resource you either stop to world to fix what's already made or you move
> forward.
>
> And IMO it is true that the next great stuff is being built, a better
> paradigm, moldability, and whatnot, but that means that, for a while,
> tools, and the image itself won't be "rock solid", and since most things
> are not backportable or maintained (there are no resources to have LTS
> versions), it is hard to define what's the minimum rock-solid core on
> which to build upon.
>
> E.g. The infinite walkback error pointed in this screenshot
> https://i.imgur.com/7jiKIhd.png still chases me from time to time, and I
> remember having reported it a long time ago, and it was considered fixed.
>
> So I wouldn't feed the troll, but I woudln't kill the messenger either.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> On 07/04/2018 14:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
>> yeah the guy (martin whatever) is a troll, if I remember correctly its
>> the same dude we had on the reddit forum for Smalltalk that has been
>> attacking Pharo with pure lies. He is a typical troll that blows off
>> steam by annoying other people. I am with Stef with this one, the only
>> way to win against a troll is silence. I had a very recent experience
>> where the person in charge underestimated a troll, he overflown the
>> mailing list with negative, many people took the bait and tried to have
>> a civilized discussions with him, he drag it one for month until people
>> started abandoning the community and the community essentially died.
>>
>> I adviced them not to feed the troll but as in many other cases, people
>> dont even listen.
>>
>> Pharo is far from perfect, but this is not a logical discussion , its
>> pure troll tactic. Do not underestimate the power of a troll, it is more
>> powerful than you can imagine and feed on politeness and rationality.
>>
>> Don't feed the troll.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:13 PM p...@highoctane.be
>>  > > wrote:
>>
>> interruptible.. yes!
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier
>> mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> Le 07/04/2018 à 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo:
>> > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc
>> >
>> > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a
>> pity when
>> > tiny “minor” issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste.
>>
>> Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO.
>>
>> I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e.
>> a Cmd-.
>> that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help
>> development so
>> significantly and allow more experiments.
>>
>> I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as
>> possible
>> from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too
>> fast to
>> be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking
>> forward to
>> building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on.
>>
>> One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code
>> releases
>> and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable
>> releases may change core APIs.
>>
>> > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language.
>>
>> That I can agree with :)
>>
>> > Some people even
>> > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians
>> heal cats...
>> >
>> > All the best
>> > Alex
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Thierry
>>
>> (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly
>> limiting.
>>
>> > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse
>> mailto:stepharo.s...@gmail.com>
>> > > >> wrote:
>> >
>> > I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a
>> pseudo. This is
>> > too easy and too microscopic to have any value.
>> > Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano
>> > mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>
>> 

[Pharo-dev] Esteban's ChangeLog week of 2 April 2018

[estebanlm]

Hello!

This is my weekly ChangeLog, from 2 April 2018 to 8 April 2018.
You can see it in a better format by going here: 
http://log.smallworks.eu/web/search?from=2/4/2018&to=8/4/2018

ChangeLog
=

5 April 2018:
-

*I closed [issue 593](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/593), 
revert a change is not refreshing changes list.

*closed [issue 599](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/599), add 
fetch to remote entry in repository view.

*fixed [case: 21676](https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21676) (this is 
needed when using tabs).

... and made a backport for Pharo 6.1 [case: 
21679](https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21679) .

*VM and CI : I made a pass to disable old projects still running in the 
Pharo Jenkins [http://ci.pharo.org](http://ci.pharo.org) .

I don't know why they were still running, but that's wrong and they were 
consuming resources we need :)

*I finished [issue 596](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/issues/596) : 
Convert metacello plugin.

*I created a github project to follow the work I'm doing with the new 
Iceberg UI (callled "Tip" :P).

You can see it here: 
[https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/projects/2](https://github.com/pharo-vcs/iceberg/projects/2)
 

I'm polishing (with the help of Guille and Pablo) the last details before 
"going public" in a test release. 

*I will resume posting actions here :)


cheers! 
Esteban

Re: [Pharo-dev] call for help: answer on HN :)

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

Even if he is a troll, he pointed out many things that aren't given
priority because we're building "next great stuff" and with the limited
resource you either stop to world to fix what's already made or you move
forward.

And IMO it is true that the next great stuff is being built, a better
paradigm, moldability, and whatnot, but that means that, for a while,
tools, and the image itself won't be "rock solid", and since most things
are not backportable or maintained (there are no resources to have LTS
versions), it is hard to define what's the minimum rock-solid core on
which to build upon.

E.g. The infinite walkback error pointed in this screenshot
https://i.imgur.com/7jiKIhd.png still chases me from time to time, and I
remember having reported it a long time ago, and it was considered fixed.

So I wouldn't feed the troll, but I woudln't kill the messenger either.

Regards,


On 07/04/2018 14:26, Dimitris Chloupis wrote:
> yeah the guy (martin whatever) is a troll, if I remember correctly its
> the same dude we had on the reddit forum for Smalltalk that has been
> attacking Pharo with pure lies. He is a typical troll that blows off
> steam by annoying other people. I am with Stef with this one, the only
> way to win against a troll is silence. I had a very recent experience
> where the person in charge underestimated a troll, he overflown the
> mailing list with negative, many people took the bait and tried to have
> a civilized discussions with him, he drag it one for month until people
> started abandoning the community and the community essentially died. 
> 
> I adviced them not to feed the troll but as in many other cases, people
> dont even listen. 
> 
> Pharo is far from perfect, but this is not a logical discussion , its
> pure troll tactic. Do not underestimate the power of a troll, it is more
> powerful than you can imagine and feed on politeness and rationality. 
> 
> Don't feed the troll. 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:13 PM p...@highoctane.be
>   > wrote:
> 
> interruptible.. yes!
> 
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018, 19:10 Thierry Goubier
> mailto:thierry.goub...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> Le 07/04/2018 à 17:48, Aliaksei Syrel a écrit :
> > Hi
> >
> > Here is a link to a report about their experience with Pharo:
> > https://gitlab.fit.cvut.cz/taibrmar/sokoban-using-bloc
> >
> > There definitely exist things that should be improved. It is a
> pity when
> > tiny “minor” issues leave such an unpleasant aftertaste.
> 
> Some of them are, sadly, quite unacceptable, IMHO.
> 
> I would really dream of a stable, correctly interruptible (i.e.
> a Cmd-.
> that really works), limited Pharo core. That would help
> development so
> significantly and allow more experiments.
> 
> I solve that by making stuff that distance itself as much as
> possible
> from a lot of the Pharo stuff that evolves far too much, far too
> fast to
> be relied upon (widgets, graphics, editors), and I'm looking
> forward to
> building a limited(*) image with just and only the things I rely on.
> 
> One of the thing I need is a CI that triggers both on my code
> releases
> and any Pharo update (including the stable ones) since even stable
> releases may change core APIs.
> 
> > Anyway, there are lovers and haters of every language.
> 
> That I can agree with :)
> 
> > Some people even
> > give dislikes to videos on YouTube that show how veterinarians
> heal cats...
> >
> > All the best
> > Alex
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Thierry
> 
> (*) I did try with the minimal image, and the tools are clearly
> limiting.
> 
> > On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 at 17:27, Stephane Ducasse
> mailto:stepharo.s...@gmail.com>
> >  >> wrote:
> >
> >     I tend to not care about people pissing on me via a
> pseudo. This is
> >     too easy and too microscopic to have any value.
> >     Thanks Philippe, Luke and Ben because you use your real names.
> >
> >     On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 2:07 PM, Esteban Lorenzano
> >     mailto:esteba...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >      > Hi,
> >      >
> >      > yesterday someone posted an article on HN about the
> Pharo MOOC
> >     and there has
> >      > been some negative posts there.
> >      > I would like to call people who can have the time to
> answer there
> >     and help
> >      > to explain better and also contribute to contest that FUD
> >     someone

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Pharo 6.1 version

[Tudor Girba]

Great job, Esteban!

Doru

> On Apr 5, 2018, at 3:00 PM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20944/Integrate-Epicea-8-2-8-in-Ph6-1
> 
> 

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"What is more important: To be happy, or to make happy?"

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Eliot Miranda-2 wrote
> If it is possible and not too onerous then the courtesy would be
> appreciated.

I would be happy to. The issue is that, since most of my private projects
are in Pharo, I won't know/see bugs. I think the only way for this to happen
is if someone starts actively using it in Squeak and reporting bugs and we
can work together to iron out any issues.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Eliot Miranda]

Hi Sean,


> On Apr 8, 2018, at 6:04 AM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> 
> Peter Uhnák wrote
>> Is this the canonical repo? I'm still depending on the version in
>> SmalltalkHub.
> 
> I would say it's a judgement call because the original author is no longer
> active in the community. I originally was pushing all my fixes to the StHub
> repo, but I started to break the Squeak CI builds, so I forked and made many
> significant enhancements since. I always depend on my fork and use it in
> most of my projects, both personal and production. I would say that there is
> no downside as long as one is using it in Pharo exclusively. I would guess
> it wouldn't be super complicated to fix for Squeak and sync everything, but
> so far no one has voiced a need.

If it is possible and not too onerous then the courtesy would be appreciated.

> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] pharo [vm-dev]

[Stéphane Ducasse]

Hello Armel

The pharo board is not the list to ask questions and get some help. 
You can send the mail to 

Pharo Dev 
or pharo-us...@lists.pharo.org

You can also have direct discussion over discord  

 http://discord.gg/Sj2rhxn 

Now if you want to have help
describe clearly
- Your OS
- what you did?
which version of Pharo, which version of the image Pharo 6.1?
- did you use the PharoLauncher?

Stef

> On 8 Apr 2018, at 16:57, feav feav  wrote:
> 
> Error. Could not determine platform's libc path for VM. 
> Try forcing $PLATFORMLIBDIR in /home/pi/pharo/pharo64/pharo/bin/pharo, based 
> on LIBC_SO.
> 
> Cordialement, Armel EMBOLO
>  
> 
> Ingénieur de travaux en Informatique de Gestion / Analyste programmeur
> Elève Ingénieur de Conception  en Génie Logiciel
> Université de Maroua, Ecole Nationale Supérieure Polytechnique de Maroua (ex 
> ISS)
> Facebook : Armel Embolo 
> Linkedin : armel embolo 
> 
> Tel : (+237) 650231339/698594740


Stéphane Ducasse
http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr
http://www.synectique.eu / http://www.pharo.org 
03 59 35 87 52
Assistant: Julie Jonas 
FAX 03 59 57 78 50
TEL 03 59 35 86 16
S. Ducasse - Inria
40, avenue Halley, 
Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, Bât.A, Park Plaza
Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650
France

[Pharo-dev] DateAndTime Offset Bug Proposal

[Sean P. DeNigris]

I was bitten by this very annoying bug again. As most of us probably know due
to the steady stream of confused ML posts in the past, the bug in summary is
that we have an incomplete timezone implementation that doesn't properly
take into account historical DST changes. This flares up without warning
especially when DST toggles. I created a wiki page to document the
situation: https://github.com/seandenigris/pharo/wiki/Time-Zone-Fiasco

Here's an example blowup: at 11:59pm before DST changes, eval aDate :=
'1/1/1901' asDate. Now, wait two minutes and at 12:01am eval self assert:
'1/1/1901' asDate = aDate and… whammo, an exception! The "different" offsets
render equal dates unequal depending on when the objects were created.

The more I think about it, the more I think that we should just assume UTC
for all Date[AndTime]s that don't explicitly specify an offset, rather than
pretend to set an offset which is only sometimes correct. More advanced
users can use one of the available libraries to get full timezone support.
What do you think?



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Peter Uhnák wrote
> Is this the canonical repo? I'm still depending on the version in
> SmalltalkHub.

I would say it's a judgement call because the original author is no longer
active in the community. I originally was pushing all my fixes to the StHub
repo, but I started to break the Squeak CI builds, so I forked and made many
significant enhancements since. I always depend on my fork and use it in
most of my projects, both personal and production. I would say that there is
no downside as long as one is using it in Pharo exclusively. I would guess
it wouldn't be super complicated to fix for Squeak and sync everything, but
so far no one has voiced a need.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
> Ok when I will do a pass I will have a look. My goal is to improve for
> Pharo.

At some point we should do a spike to see how we would implement today now
that we have slots. 

While we're on the subject, I was thinking that for less-than-trival slot
layouts, the class definition will start to grow to a very-non-smalltalkish
length. Have we thought at all about that and how to maybe present it in
more manageable chunks?



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Pharo 6.1 version

[Peter Uhnák]

>
> But why it's not a 6.2 version? It would  be more clear since this is
> continuation of version 6 with new changes. How one would revert to
> original 6.1 if this new version isn't working for him?
>

In the same way as any previous image version... e.g.

Pharo 6 is actually Pharo 60508 and lower,
Pharo 6.1 is Pharo 60509-60539,
and Pharo 6.2 is Pharo 60540+
(give or take couple of versions, don't remember the precise boundaries)

and you can download any specific image version you want
https://files.pharo.org/image/60/

(it is a bit confusing, but Pharo 6 is not yet using git and the existing
infrastructure is not keen on minor releases)

Peter

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Peter Uhnák]

Is this the canonical repo? I'm still depending on the version in
SmalltalkHub.

Thanks,
Peter

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 1:22 PM, Stephane Ducasse 
wrote:

> Ok when I will do a pass I will have a look. My goal is to improve for
> Pharo.
>
> Stef
>
> On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris 
> wrote:
> > Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
> >> I will work on magritte.
> >
> > Great, have a look at my fork [1], which contains many enhancements. I
> > didn't port them back to the main library because they are only known to
> > work in Pharo, I don't know of anyone maintaining from the Squeak side,
> and
> > I didn't want to break it.
> >
> > 1. https://github.com/seandenigris/Magritte3
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Cheers,
> > Sean
> > --
> > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.
> html
> >
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN] New Pharo 6.1 version

[Stan Krupoderov]

It's a great new!

But why it's not a 6.2 version? It would  be more clear since this is
continuation of version 6 with new changes. How one would revert to
original 6.1 if this new version isn't working for him?


On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 09:56 Alexandre Bergel  wrote:

> Excellent! Thanks!
>
> Alexandre
>
> > On Apr 7, 2018, at 10:48 AM, Peter Uhnák  wrote:
> >
> > You don't even need to refresh the list; downloading a particular pharo
> version (5, 6, 7, ...) always downloads the latest image version available.
> > This has been the case for years. Normally you only need to update
> PharoLauncher every major release (so e.g. once Pharo 7 is released, etc.)
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 8:50 AM, Alexandre Bergel <
> alexandre.ber...@me.com> wrote:
> > > In "official distributions", just download a new Pharo 61 version from
> > > the launcher and it will be this version by default.
> > >
> > > It should be build 60540 I think.
> >
> > I do not quite understand. I installed the launcher several months ago.
> Should I update the launcher? I think no.
> > I see Pharo 6.1(stable), but I am not sure which build it is exactly.
> >
> > If I refresh the template list, does it ensure that I will have the last
> Pharo 6.1?
> >
> > Alexandre
> >
> > >
> > >> Alexandre
> > >> --
> > >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
> > >> Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
> > >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Apr 5, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Esteban Lorenzano  > >>> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/20944/Integrate-Epicea-8-2-8-in-Ph6-1
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cyril Ferlicot
> > > https://ferlicot.fr
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Did magritte change? Magritte-Morph-SeasnDeNigris.95 is not found

[Stephane Ducasse]

Ok when I will do a pass I will have a look. My goal is to improve for Pharo.

Stef

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 2:50 AM, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
> Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote
>> I will work on magritte.
>
> Great, have a look at my fork [1], which contains many enhancements. I
> didn't port them back to the main library because they are only known to
> work in Pharo, I don't know of anyone maintaining from the Squeak side, and
> I didn't want to break it.
>
> 1. https://github.com/seandenigris/Magritte3
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html
>