[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Russ Whaley]

Great, Sebastian, thanks. I’ll take a (braver) look into the code soon.
I’ll touch base on discord :)

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 10:39 AM Sebastian Jordan 
wrote:

> Hi Russ,
> Do not scarry of the WorldMenu item. Any tool can appear in the WorldMenu
> if it has a class side method `menuCommandOn:`. Just load the code with
> the script that appears in the README. Look at the classes in the packages
> and you will see that a lot of them are children of SpPresenter. I do not
> know if my tools is a complete example of all Spec framework. But at least
> it has all the basics covered.
> Let me know if you have any question  We can talk on Discord too.
>
> Sebastian
> --
> *From:* Russ Whaley 
> *Sent:* 12 May 2021 12:52
> *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome 
>
> *Subject:* [Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example
> application based on Spec2 to learn from...
>
> Mark & Sebastian,
> Sebastian, the link you provided is to a RewriteToolsSet... I don't
> understand how this provides insights into a Spec2 solution? - but
> admittedly I didn't dig too deep - I saw WorldMenu items and went
> 'woah-stop!', lol.  I'm hoping there was another link Mark referenced that
> perhaps didn't come through my email chain  :)
>
> I REALLY want to learn how others use Spec2 in an integrated way
> (interconnected presenters, model refreshes, etc.).  I've written 6 apps in
> Pharo (all with Spec2 GUI) and I still don't feel as if I'm doing things
> correctly.  I can 'get things to work' and I'm pretty pleased with them in
> general, but I usually run up against the same 'refresh' issues, especially
> around notebooks.
>
> Esteban is a wealth of information and has been very helpful for my basic
> understanding - but I can envision him shaking his head at my feeble
> attempts and questions (just kidding Esteban!).
>
> I am VERY interested to review Spec2 code others are successfully using,
> so I can hopefully get past whatever brainblock I have in my Spec2 designs.
>
> ... and I would very much like to be involved in a Spec2
> workshop/session/whatever!
>
> Happy Pharo-ing!
> Russ (whalehead on discord)
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 5:32 AM  wrote:
>
> Hi Tim
>
> Thanks for the suggestion - I’m aware of the alternative of using a web
> application architecture using something like Seaside (and now CodeParadise
> too - thanks).
>
> But I’m more interested at the moment in getting on top of a more
> traditional application for these personal apps I want to build for my
> desktop PC.
>
> My needs may change of course - and I’m sure will look at doing some web
> apps in the future...
>
> More importantly - YES - it is great to be back in a ST environment again
> , and of course it is still so very very addictive !!
>
> [ Before resuming I spent some time familiarising myself with the
> mainstream tools the industry seems to have adopted in the last 10-20
> years. I must say I was quite surprised and even disappointed about the
> complexity, verbosity and incomprehensible syntax of some, and the
> sloppiness (or is it flexibility?) of others. I really was not keen to have
> to pick up one of those again. I had somehow hoped or expected that
> language and environment design would have been much slicker and more fully
> evolved by now…]
>
> Cheers Tim, and thanks for the suggestion…
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> --
> Russ Whaley
> whaley.r...@gmail.com
>
-- 
Russ Whaley
whaley.r...@gmail.com

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Sebastian Jordan]

Hi Russ,
Do not scarry of the WorldMenu item. Any tool can appear in the WorldMenu if it 
has a class side method `menuCommandOn:`. Just load the code with the script 
that appears in the README. Look at the classes in the packages and you will 
see that a lot of them are children of SpPresenter. I do not know if my tools 
is a complete example of all Spec framework. But at least it has all the basics 
covered.
Let me know if you have any question  We can talk on Discord too.

Sebastian

From: Russ Whaley 
Sent: 12 May 2021 12:52
To: Any question about pharo is welcome 
Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application 
based on Spec2 to learn from...

Mark & Sebastian,
Sebastian, the link you provided is to a RewriteToolsSet... I don't understand 
how this provides insights into a Spec2 solution? - but admittedly I didn't dig 
too deep - I saw WorldMenu items and went 'woah-stop!', lol.  I'm hoping there 
was another link Mark referenced that perhaps didn't come through my email 
chain  :)

I REALLY want to learn how others use Spec2 in an integrated way 
(interconnected presenters, model refreshes, etc.).  I've written 6 apps in 
Pharo (all with Spec2 GUI) and I still don't feel as if I'm doing things 
correctly.  I can 'get things to work' and I'm pretty pleased with them in 
general, but I usually run up against the same 'refresh' issues, especially 
around notebooks.

Esteban is a wealth of information and has been very helpful for my basic 
understanding - but I can envision him shaking his head at my feeble attempts 
and questions (just kidding Esteban!).

I am VERY interested to review Spec2 code others are successfully using, so I 
can hopefully get past whatever brainblock I have in my Spec2 designs.

... and I would very much like to be involved in a Spec2 
workshop/session/whatever!

Happy Pharo-ing!
Russ (whalehead on discord)

On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 5:32 AM 
mailto:mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Tim

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m aware of the alternative of using a web 
application architecture using something like Seaside (and now CodeParadise too 
- thanks).

But I’m more interested at the moment in getting on top of a more traditional 
application for these personal apps I want to build for my desktop PC.

My needs may change of course - and I’m sure will look at doing some web apps 
in the future...

More importantly - YES - it is great to be back in a ST environment again , and 
of course it is still so very very addictive !!

[ Before resuming I spent some time familiarising myself with the mainstream 
tools the industry seems to have adopted in the last 10-20 years. I must say I 
was quite surprised and even disappointed about the complexity, verbosity and 
incomprehensible syntax of some, and the sloppiness (or is it flexibility?) of 
others. I really was not keen to have to pick up one of those again. I had 
somehow hoped or expected that language and environment design would have been 
much slicker and more fully evolved by now…]

Cheers Tim, and thanks for the suggestion…

Mark


--
Russ Whaley
whaley.r...@gmail.com

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Kasper Osterbye]

My sheep project - Ovina2 - is now public for other to be scared about.
I am on my way out the door, so databases will have to wait until monday
when I am back from kayaking.
This is the link:
https://github.com/kasperosterbye/ovina2

The two main presenters are OvinaHistoryPresenter and
OvinaAllSheepsPresenter, I expect they end up living in a single app window
in the end.
In my view it is about 80% done.

Best,

Kasper

>

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Samuel Teixeira Santos]

It would be great 

Em ter., 11 de mai. de 2021 às 13:38, Esteban Lorenzano 
escreveu:

> I am playing with the idea of setting a bunch of techtalk sessions to
> "build an application from scratch".
> I need to book the time but I think it can be a good idea.
>
> Esteban
>

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Russ Whaley]

Mark & Sebastian,
Sebastian, the link you provided is to a RewriteToolsSet... I don't
understand how this provides insights into a Spec2 solution? - but
admittedly I didn't dig too deep - I saw WorldMenu items and went
'woah-stop!', lol.  I'm hoping there was another link Mark referenced that
perhaps didn't come through my email chain  :)

I REALLY want to learn how others use Spec2 in an integrated way
(interconnected presenters, model refreshes, etc.).  I've written 6 apps in
Pharo (all with Spec2 GUI) and I still don't feel as if I'm doing things
correctly.  I can 'get things to work' and I'm pretty pleased with them in
general, but I usually run up against the same 'refresh' issues, especially
around notebooks.

Esteban is a wealth of information and has been very helpful for my basic
understanding - but I can envision him shaking his head at my feeble
attempts and questions (just kidding Esteban!).

I am VERY interested to review Spec2 code others are successfully using, so
I can hopefully get past whatever brainblock I have in my Spec2 designs.

... and I would very much like to be involved in a Spec2
workshop/session/whatever!

Happy Pharo-ing!
Russ (whalehead on discord)

On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 5:32 AM  wrote:

> Hi Tim
>
> Thanks for the suggestion - I’m aware of the alternative of using a web
> application architecture using something like Seaside (and now CodeParadise
> too - thanks).
>
> But I’m more interested at the moment in getting on top of a more
> traditional application for these personal apps I want to build for my
> desktop PC.
>
> My needs may change of course - and I’m sure will look at doing some web
> apps in the future...
>
> More importantly - YES - it is great to be back in a ST environment again
> , and of course it is still so very very addictive !!
>
> [ Before resuming I spent some time familiarising myself with the
> mainstream tools the industry seems to have adopted in the last 10-20
> years. I must say I was quite surprised and even disappointed about the
> complexity, verbosity and incomprehensible syntax of some, and the
> sloppiness (or is it flexibility?) of others. I really was not keen to have
> to pick up one of those again. I had somehow hoped or expected that
> language and environment design would have been much slicker and more fully
> evolved by now…]
>
> Cheers Tim, and thanks for the suggestion…
>
> Mark
>


-- 
Russ Whaley
whaley.r...@gmail.com

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[mark . odonoghue . 2010]

Hi Tim

Thanks for the suggestion - I’m aware of the alternative of using a web 
application architecture using something like Seaside (and now CodeParadise too 
- thanks).

But I’m more interested at the moment in getting on top of a more traditional 
application for these personal apps I want to build for my desktop PC.

My needs may change of course - and I’m sure will look at doing some web apps 
in the future...

More importantly - YES - it is great to be back in a ST environment again , and 
of course it is still so very very addictive !!

\[ Before resuming I spent some time familiarising myself with the mainstream 
tools the industry seems to have adopted in the last 10-20 years. I must say I 
was quite surprised and even disappointed about the complexity, verbosity and 
incomprehensible syntax of some, and the sloppiness (or is it flexibility?) of 
others. I really was not keen to have to pick up one of those again. I had 
somehow hoped or expected that language and environment design would have been 
much slicker and more fully evolved by now…\]

Cheers Tim, and thanks for the suggestion…

Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Tim Mackinnon]

Hi Mark - not to distract you, as its good to see someone pushing on the Spec 
integration with a real use case - but an alternate is a web application. 
Presumably you are familiar with Seaside  but there is another kid in town that 
I’ve been having a lot of fun with with - CodeParadise - which uses MVP with 
the UI hosted transparently as minimal client side image (via the magic of 
Pharo Candle to create a minimal Dom based headless image that runs on the 
SqueakJS VM) using WebComponents. I’m still in awe over how this works and 
brings numerous Smalltalk technologies together (although - seeing Esteban demo 
a native spec app earlier this month was very cool too).

CP is still pretty heavily in development (so the same doc scarcity as well - 
https://github.com/ErikOnBike/CodeParadise) - but I’ve been helping Erik get 
Shoelace (https://shoelace.style/components/card) working in it - and that has 
a decent rich set of UI components that you can hook up (there isn’t a tree 
view though - not sure if that’s some CSS trickery to accomplish this).

There was a presentation on it a few months ago - https://vimeo.com/457353130

Anyway - welcome to Pharo and isn’t it fun to pick up on Smalltalk again?

Tim


> On 12 May 2021, at 08:44, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Kasper
> 
> Yes please! - that would also be an interesting project to look at…
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark
> 

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[mark . odonoghue . 2010]

Hi Kasper

Yes please! - that would also be an interesting project to look at…

Cheers

Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Kasper Osterbye]

I am currently working on a administrative system to keep track of our sheeps 
(about 30 ewes and 50-60 lambs a year). It is not finished yet, but if anyone 
wants I can make the currently private git public or give access.The intended 
user is my wife who is not an easy customer :-)

It uses a sqllite database, and a home rolled orm - I can provide a sample 
database as well. The code is in English, while the labels and such is in 
Danish. It tries to strike a balance between generic structures and 
performance, for example using pragmas in the domain model to drive important 
parts of the gui.

Best,

Kasper

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Norbert Hartl]

When? :)

I‘m in!

Norbert

> Am 11.05.2021 um 18:39 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano :
> 
> 
> I am playing with the idea of setting a bunch of techtalk sessions to "build 
> an application from scratch".
> I need to book the time but I think it can be a good idea.
> 
> Esteban
> 
> On May 11 2021, at 6:35 pm, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Sebastian
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for providing your application - No problems loading it on Windows 10 .
> 
> Your application is pitched at the right level for the GUI work that I need 
> to do. It looks like it will be very useful indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> It is also really good to be able to compare it to Esteban’s more complex 
> example, as I’m sure having both will help me with problem solving and better 
> understanding of the Spec2 framework.
> 
> 
> 
> Many thanks :-)
> 
> Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Esteban Lorenzano]

hi,

ah, those are correct presenters/applications.
if you want to make a gtk application at a point you need to configure it 
(hence CrGtkConfiguration).
CrApplicationStarter is because in different platforms you may have different 
ways of start the application (for example macOS may need a system menu... 
which anyway so far I have been unable to do, but still ;) )

the other extensions were for needs of the application but indeed some of them 
may arrive (and some of them already this) to vanilla spec (firstResponder is 
now "defaultKeyboardFocus", for example...).

this application is one of the ones I use to test concepts that may or may not 
make their path to vanilla Spec :)
Esteban
On May 11 2021, at 7:30 pm, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Esteban
>
> I’m new and may be wrong and apologise if so … !
> It just looked like the Crono package has a few things I didn’t expect :
> CrApplicationStarter
> CrGtkConfiguration
>
> CrWindowConfiguration
>
> SpPresenter extension firstResponder
>
> SpWindowPresenter extensions (2)
>
> These ‘Cr’ classes seem to have some more general purpose behaviours that 
> other SpApplications could use?
> And I would have thought the Gtk configuration would be outside Crono too?
> Also, presumably the extensions are candidates for repackaging outside/above 
> Crono ….?
> This may be just a naming and packaging thing rather than any criticism of 
> design.
>
> In summary, as a simple consumer of the framework there was (some) surprising 
> detail in the Crono package and classes that didn’t seem relevant to any new 
> application I would be writing.
> Hence I would have hoped not to have to clone these details (or even deal 
> with them…).
> Does that sound fair? - or do I have the wrong end of the stick !!
>
>
> Cheers
> Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[mark . odonoghue . 2010]

Hi Esteban 

I’m new and may be wrong and apologise if so … !

It just looked like the Crono package has a few things I didn’t expect :

* CrApplicationStarter

* CrGtkConfiguration

* CrWindowConfiguration

* SpPresenter extension firstResponder

* SpWindowPresenter extensions (2)

  These  ‘Cr’ classes seem to have some more general purpose behaviours that 
other SpApplications could use?

  And I would have thought the Gtk configuration would be outside Crono too?

  Also, presumably the extensions are candidates for repackaging outside/above 
Crono ….?

This may be just a naming and packaging thing rather than any criticism of 
design.

In summary, as a simple consumer of the framework there was (some) surprising 
detail in the Crono package and classes that didn’t seem relevant to any new 
application I would be writing.

Hence I would have hoped not to have to clone these details (or even deal with 
them…).

Does that sound fair? - or do I have the wrong end of the stick !! 

Cheers

Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[mark . odonoghue . 2010]

Agree !

I think it would be very valuable to have a "build an application from scratch” 
tutorials/talks/guide.

Perhaps it would also result in a small well designed sample application (e.g. 
Personal Organiser/To Do Lists) that new folk can work their way through; once 
they have got familiar enough with the language and tools using existing 
resources (i.e. no need to repeat basic concepts).

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Sebastian Jordan]

I'm glad to hear 

From: mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com 
Sent: 11 May 2021 12:35
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org 
Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application 
based on Spec2 to learn from...


Hi Sebastian


Thanks for providing your application - No problems loading it on Windows 10 .

Your application is pitched at the right level for the GUI work that I need to 
do. It looks like it will be very useful indeed.


It is also really good to be able to compare it to Esteban’s more complex 
example, as I’m sure having both will help me with problem solving and better 
understanding of the Spec2 framework.


Many thanks :-)

Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Tomaž Turk]

+1

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Esteban Lorenzano]

I am playing with the idea of setting a bunch of techtalk sessions to "build an 
application from scratch".
I need to book the time but I think it can be a good idea.

Esteban
On May 11 2021, at 6:35 pm, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Sebastian
>
>
>
> Thanks for providing your application - No problems loading it on Windows 10 .
> Your application is pitched at the right level for the GUI work that I need 
> to do. It looks like it will be very useful indeed.
>
>
> It is also really good to be able to compare it to Esteban’s more complex 
> example, as I’m sure having both will help me with problem solving and better 
> understanding of the Spec2 framework.
>
>
> Many thanks :-)
> Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Esteban Lorenzano]

On May 11 2021, at 6:22 pm, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> Many thanks Esteban - I will study the code to get a feel for what kinds of 
> approach I would need to use.
>
> It didn’t install properly as you warned - but that’s OK - I only need to 
> peruse the code at this point.
>
>
> First impressions are that it has a bit of complex detail that handles some 
> of the platform & backend GUI work.
uh? where?
if that is the case it should have gone long time ago... and I was sure I got 
rid of it.

Esteban

> I suppose ideally these would be reworked somewhat so the the Chrono 
> application doesn’t need to deal with any of that stuff?
>
>
> Nevertheless is is going to be very useful and I thank you for your help :-)
>
>
> Cheers
> Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[mark . odonoghue . 2010]

Hi Sebastian

Thanks for providing your application - No problems loading it on Windows 10 .

Your application is pitched at the right level for the GUI work that I need to 
do. It looks like it will be very useful indeed. 

It is also really good to be able to compare it to Esteban’s more complex 
example,  as I’m sure having both will help me with problem solving and better 
understanding of the Spec2 framework. 

Many thanks :-)

Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[mark . odonoghue . 2010]

Many thanks Esteban - I will study the code to get a feel for what kinds of 
approach I would need to use.

It didn’t install properly as you warned - but that’s OK - I only need to 
peruse the code at this point.

First impressions are that it has a bit of complex detail that handles some of 
the platform & backend GUI work.

I suppose ideally these would be reworked somewhat so the the Chrono 
application doesn’t need to deal with any of that stuff?

Nevertheless is is going to be very useful and I thank you for your help :-)

Cheers

Mark

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Sebastian Jordan]

Hi,
You can check this: https://github.com/jordanmontt/RewriteToolsSet
Hope it helps you.

Regards,
Sebastian



From: mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com 
Sent: 11 May 2021 06:21
To: pharo-users@lists.pharo.org 
Subject: [Pharo-users] Looking for more non-trivial example application based 
on Spec2 to learn from...


I’m trying to return to Smalltalk after a 15+ year break (VisualAge, ENfin/2 
ST-80 etc), and have been trying to get back into the saddle with Pharo 8 and 
Pharo 9.

Since I have no legacy code - I’ve opted for Pharo 9 knowing a stable release 
isn’t far away.

My goal is to produce several applications for private use, and regain some 
competence in Smalltalk along the way. The apps are business 
accounting/investing style apps - not too technical. I’m really not keen on the 
prospect of using any of the other ‘mainstream’ alternatives we have today.

I’m confident I can build a domain model easily enough, but the Pharo 
environment is my stumbling point - especially building the GUI with Spec2. I’m 
really spinning my wheels trying to get a useful Spec2 application built.

It needs to have menus, a toolbar, tabbed notebooks, tree lists etc - plus a 
dozen or so tabular panes (to view/maintain my domain model). Ideally it would 
also be able to use ODBC or UDBC or Excel etc for transaction storage.

I’ve been through all the building blocks in SpDemo but there a just too many 
concepts to familiarise with and test bit by bit as I buildup a more realistic 
functioning application. It has been very frustraing and time consuming.

I understand why there are not yet solid guides available (book, tutorial, 
examples) , so I thought the best way would be to use an existing Spec2 
application to help me get it going. I think this would save me many weeks of 
effort.

Could anyone point me to at a working non-trivial application that I could 
share and use a starting point.

Any suggestions to help me get into the heart of my application would be most 
welcome…!

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Ah, a disclaimer: so far, just me and a little bit Santiago tested this 
installation... for sure you will find problems.
Feel free to ask :)

Esteban
On May 11 2021, at 12:57 pm, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Check at this :
> https://github.com/estebanlm/crono
> Is a fairly advanced application so you will probably have some issues to get 
> into (also because I didn't have time to properly document it yet).
>
> Esteban
>
>
> On May 11 2021, at 12:21 pm, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> > I’m trying to return to Smalltalk after a 15+ year break (VisualAge, 
> > ENfin/2 ST-80 etc), and have been trying to get back into the saddle with 
> > Pharo 8 and Pharo 9.
> >
> > Since I have no legacy code - I’ve opted for Pharo 9 knowing a stable 
> > release isn’t far away.
> > My goal is to produce several applications for private use, and regain some 
> > competence in Smalltalk along the way. The apps are business 
> > accounting/investing style apps - not too technical. I’m really not keen on 
> > the prospect of using any of the other ‘mainstream’ alternatives we have 
> > today.
> > I’m confident I can build a domain model easily enough, but the Pharo 
> > environment is my stumbling point - especially building the GUI with Spec2. 
> > I’m really spinning my wheels trying to get a useful Spec2 application 
> > built.
> > It needs to have menus, a toolbar, tabbed notebooks, tree lists etc - plus 
> > a dozen or so tabular panes (to view/maintain my domain model). Ideally it 
> > would also be able to use ODBC or UDBC or Excel etc for transaction storage.
> > I’ve been through all the building blocks in SpDemo but there a just too 
> > many concepts to familiarise with and test bit by bit as I buildup a more 
> > realistic functioning application. It has been very frustraing and time 
> > consuming.
> > I understand why there are not yet solid guides available (book, tutorial, 
> > examples) , so I thought the best way would be to use an existing Spec2 
> > application to help me get it going. I think this would save me many weeks 
> > of effort.
> > Could anyone point me to at a working non-trivial application that I could 
> > share and use a starting point.
> > Any suggestions to help me get into the heart of my application would be 
> > most welcome…!

[Pharo-users] Re: Looking for more non-trivial example application based on Spec2 to learn from...

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Hi,

Check at this :
https://github.com/estebanlm/crono
Is a fairly advanced application so you will probably have some issues to get 
into (also because I didn't have time to properly document it yet).
Esteban

On May 11 2021, at 12:21 pm, mark.odonoghue.2...@gmail.com wrote:
> I’m trying to return to Smalltalk after a 15+ year break (VisualAge, ENfin/2 
> ST-80 etc), and have been trying to get back into the saddle with Pharo 8 and 
> Pharo 9.
>
> Since I have no legacy code - I’ve opted for Pharo 9 knowing a stable release 
> isn’t far away.
> My goal is to produce several applications for private use, and regain some 
> competence in Smalltalk along the way. The apps are business 
> accounting/investing style apps - not too technical. I’m really not keen on 
> the prospect of using any of the other ‘mainstream’ alternatives we have 
> today.
> I’m confident I can build a domain model easily enough, but the Pharo 
> environment is my stumbling point - especially building the GUI with Spec2. 
> I’m really spinning my wheels trying to get a useful Spec2 application built.
> It needs to have menus, a toolbar, tabbed notebooks, tree lists etc - plus a 
> dozen or so tabular panes (to view/maintain my domain model). Ideally it 
> would also be able to use ODBC or UDBC or Excel etc for transaction storage.
> I’ve been through all the building blocks in SpDemo but there a just too many 
> concepts to familiarise with and test bit by bit as I buildup a more 
> realistic functioning application. It has been very frustraing and time 
> consuming.
> I understand why there are not yet solid guides available (book, tutorial, 
> examples) , so I thought the best way would be to use an existing Spec2 
> application to help me get it going. I think this would save me many weeks of 
> effort.
> Could anyone point me to at a working non-trivial application that I could 
> share and use a starting point.
> Any suggestions to help me get into the heart of my application would be most 
> welcome…!