[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
Rich, This concern may have been best addressed by Michael (Funk) last evening. He wrote in part: check out some of the ebay discussions boards on this subject. Those boards, despite some of the irrational and subjective peanut-gallery noisemakers you will see, are the best place to find others who, probably like me, you, and so many other genuinely responsible and decent folks in Phono-L, really do have a focused and genuine concern for how these changes affect eBay users in general. Now...If eBay were to implement a truly democratic process rather than a dictatorship, I would vote for Loran Hughes to be president. Hey...Maybe that would be a good fundraiser for the coming years: A bumper sticker that reads, Loran Hughes is MY President. But in the meantime, don't forget what Inspector Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood - one of the guys who used to be on the bumper sticker that we are going to put Loran on) said in the 1973 movie, Magnum Force: A man's got to know his limitations. Walt -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:04 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! As eBay only provides a 30 day look back and there is no way to find the IP address of the seller and bidders from the information provided by eBay, how does this recent change - ... makes it harder to detect fraudulent bidding too, The only thing that I have seen is multiple bids from the same individual. That just looks dumb to me. To make shill bidding work there needs to be a minimum of 2 bidders, at least one of which is the shill. How are you going to RELIABLY detect this? If is is poorly done it is obvious but if it is done right you will never know. The only way to tell is to have the IP of the seller and all bidders then if the bids from two bidders or the seller and one bidder originate from the same IP you would be correct in suspecting something. In my opinion this is a tempest in a very small tea pot. I find the highly inflated shipping and handling charges much more egregious and revealing as to the ethics of the seller. Rich On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:48:30 -0800 (PST), Donald Dellmann wrote: Generally in the past, a private auction was used for items where it was likely that people wouldn't want their friends to know what they were buying. Prime examples would be items of a sexual or fetishistic nature, or unusual items out of the mainstream of society. Applying it to auctions in general does protect bidders, I can see eBay's point, but it also makes it harder to detect fraudulent bidding too, so I have to lean towards the side of opposition to the new policy. Don Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com wrote: I have always avoided auctions that hide bidders. I agree with Jeff's suspicions. I just don't trust sellers that hide things. It just feels wrong. I suppose many people have had OK transactions this way. It's not for me though. Dan - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! In a message dated 1/16/2007 4:13:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jeff...@prevea.com writes: Has anyone bid, or won anything with these bidder identification protected auctions? The seller of the Zonophone-A is doing that with that particular auction. eBay has always had an option for keeping bidders private, but this is not the case here. Recently eBay instituted a new policy whereby anything that tops $200 becomes protected. It's not the seller's choice. Instead of showing bidder IDs it shows Bidder 1, Bidder 2 etc. This is an attempt to combat rampant fraud since so many scammers are sending fake second chance notices to underbidders. By hiding bidders on higher-priced items they hope to cut down on these scams. It will also prevent people from offering similar items to underbidders by private message. On the bid history page you can view some statistics on the bidders. Perhaps the most telling is the one that shows what percent of the bidder's total bid activity is with the particular seller. In the Zonophone auction, for example, the current high bidder has 42% of activity with the seller. That's certainly very high. It also shows the categories the bidder has been active in, so it's very easy to see if a person who spends most of his time buying Christmas ornaments is suddenly a player on high-end collector phonographs. The new system is far from ideal, and I confess I liked to see what other people were bidding on. But by the same token, I never liked airing my own bid history publicly so I guess I'm a hypocrite at heart! Overall I think this new system will have more pros than cons. (And it will hopefully stifle some of the con artists, pun intended) Best regards,
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
My point is that just looking at the bidder's bidding history and the sellers' selling history does not provide much meaningful information. The exceptions are the stolen IDs, no feedback high buck item, and several others. All of these are easy to spot and check out. My point is that if a seller uses shill bidding to run up the final price and is reasonably creative you will never know it. This is just exactly how it happens at the live in person auctions. Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood was right though, A man's got to know his limitations. If you lack the ability to spot a bad deal (auction) then you are going to get taken to the cleaners. Same for poker games... I realize also that there is massive resistance to any change, good or bad. Something about a golden vice comes immediately to mind. I do not see any real problem with the eBay change as regards $200.00 value auctions. And I do ever so often look in on the eBay community forums. I guess my thought is this, why do I need to know who Bidder 1 is? What information will this provide that will possibly protect me from being taken? One thing you can be quite sure of is that if an item hits eBay and it is fairly and correctly described and is also a desirable collectable the final price will be right up there. There will be no bargain deal. Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:06:42 -0500, Walt wrote: Rich, This concern may have been best addressed by Michael (Funk) last evening. He wrote in part: check out some of the ebay discussions boards on this subject. Those boards, despite some of the irrational and subjective peanut-gallery noisemakers you will see, are the best place to find others who, probably like me, you, and so many other genuinely responsible and decent folks in Phono-L, really do have a focused and genuine concern for how these changes affect eBay users in general. Now...If eBay were to implement a truly democratic process rather than a dictatorship, I would vote for Loran Hughes to be president. Hey...Maybe that would be a good fundraiser for the coming years: A bumper sticker that reads, Loran Hughes is MY President. But in the meantime, don't forget what Inspector Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood - one of the guys who used to be on the bumper sticker that we are going to put Loran on) said in the 1973 movie, Magnum Force: A man's got to know his limitations. Walt -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:04 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! As eBay only provides a 30 day look back and there is no way to find the IP address of the seller and bidders from the information provided by eBay, how does this recent change - ... makes it harder to detect fraudulent bidding too, The only thing that I have seen is multiple bids from the same individual. That just looks dumb to me. To make shill bidding work there needs to be a minimum of 2 bidders, at least one of which is the shill. How are you going to RELIABLY detect this? If is is poorly done it is obvious but if it is done right you will never know. The only way to tell is to have the IP of the seller and all bidders then if the bids from two bidders or the seller and one bidder originate from the same IP you would be correct in suspecting something. In my opinion this is a tempest in a very small tea pot. I find the highly inflated shipping and handling charges much more egregious and revealing as to the ethics of the seller. Rich On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:48:30 -0800 (PST), Donald Dellmann wrote: Generally in the past, a private auction was used for items where it was likely that people wouldn't want their friends to know what they were buying. Prime examples would be items of a sexual or fetishistic nature, or unusual items out of the mainstream of society. Applying it to auctions in general does protect bidders, I can see eBay's point, but it also makes it harder to detect fraudulent bidding too, so I have to lean towards the side of opposition to the new policy. Don Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com wrote: I have always avoided auctions that hide bidders. I agree with Jeff's suspicions. I just don't trust sellers that hide things. It just feels wrong. I suppose many people have had OK transactions this way. It's not for me though. Dan - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! In a message dated 1/16/2007 4:13:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jeff...@prevea.com writes: Has anyone bid, or won anything with these bidder identification protected auctions? The seller of the Zonophone-A is doing that with that particular auction. eBay has always had an option for keeping bidders private, but this is not the
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken Walt wrote: Rich, This concern may have been best addressed by Michael (Funk) last evening. He wrote in part: check out some of the ebay discussions boards on this subject. Those boards, despite some of the irrational and subjective peanut-gallery noisemakers you will see, are the best place to find others who, probably like me, you, and so many other genuinely responsible and decent folks in Phono-L, really do have a focused and genuine concern for how these changes affect eBay users in general. Now...If eBay were to implement a truly democratic process rather than a dictatorship, I would vote for Loran Hughes to be president. Hey...Maybe that would be a good fundraiser for the coming years: A bumper sticker that reads, Loran Hughes is MY President. But in the meantime, don't forget what Inspector Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood - one of the guys who used to be on the bumper sticker that we are going to put Loran on) said in the 1973 movie, Magnum Force: A man's got to know his limitations. Walt From rich-m...@octoxol.com Wed Jan 17 10:48:58 2007 From: rich-m...@octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Wed Jan 17 10:49:09 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! In-Reply-To: 45ae6a03.5010...@lemur.org Message-ID: 20070117184900.c61c2292...@mail.intellitechcomputing.com The bidder information is available to the seller. It is ONLY converted to Bidder 1 etc. for the other bidders. I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:25:07 -0500, Ken Danckaert wrote: It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
Well, for one; I try not to purposely bid against some of my other phono friends that live in my same town. It isn't that there is a problem bidding against someone you know, I just choose to not do it as a courtesy to my friends. This change eliminates that possibility. I also know who many of the real phono ebay users are. It makes me feel better when legit folks are bidding. And, I see no value to anyone in this change. It's stupid. Dan - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! The bidder information is available to the seller. It is ONLY converted to Bidder 1 etc. for the other bidders. I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:25:07 -0500, Ken Danckaert wrote: It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
I agree completely. It's very stupid and useless. I find it helpful to see exactly who is bidding, and this adds a certain amount of enjoyment to the eBay game. If eBay wanted to eliminate a lot of problems, they could simply do away with the 2nd chance offer. Hiding the names of the bidders will certainly increase the number of shill bidders. The change is very ill advised and one that eBay will certainly regret. I have heard that Google is considering getting into the auction business, and if they do then eBay will be in real trouble. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! Well, for one; I try not to purposely bid against some of my other phono friends that live in my same town. It isn't that there is a problem bidding against someone you know, I just choose to not do it as a courtesy to my friends. This change eliminates that possibility. I also know who many of the real phono ebay users are. It makes me feel better when legit folks are bidding. And, I see no value to anyone in this change. It's stupid. Dan - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! The bidder information is available to the seller. It is ONLY converted to Bidder 1 etc. for the other bidders. I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:25:07 -0500, Ken Danckaert wrote: It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
Part of this new hidden bidder ID policy is revealed when a bidder search is done. Formerly, one could obtain a history of recent bidding activity of any particular bidder for both completed and in-process auctions. This search enabled one to see the specific bidding activities for both items won and not won. The new policy enables a searcher to see only the finFINAL PRICE of auctions WON by that particular bidder - and no other bidding activities, whatsoever. From the point of view of the ebay community at-large, bidding histories have, essentially, evaporated for items over $ 200. I believe one of the key points that concerned ebay members are trying to make is this: I DON'T CARE WHO THE BIDDER IS OR WHAT HIS IP ADDRESS IS, BUT I DO CARE TO KNOW WHAT HE DOES. He may shill or he may not shill, but don't take away some of the information that, quite possibly, might help me make my own decision in the auction process. If it is good information for auctions less than $ 200, is it not be even better information for auctions more than $ 200? -Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of wilenz...@bellsouth.net Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:47 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! I agree completely. It's very stupid and useless. I find it helpful to see exactly who is bidding, and this adds a certain amount of enjoyment to the eBay game. If eBay wanted to eliminate a lot of problems, they could simply do away with the 2nd chance offer. Hiding the names of the bidders will certainly increase the number of shill bidders. The change is very ill advised and one that eBay will certainly regret. I have heard that Google is considering getting into the auction business, and if they do then eBay will be in real trouble. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! Well, for one; I try not to purposely bid against some of my other phono friends that live in my same town. It isn't that there is a problem bidding against someone you know, I just choose to not do it as a courtesy to my friends. This change eliminates that possibility. I also know who many of the real phono ebay users are. It makes me feel better when legit folks are bidding. And, I see no value to anyone in this change. It's stupid. Dan - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! The bidder information is available to the seller. It is ONLY converted to Bidder 1 etc. for the other bidders. I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:25:07 -0500, Ken Danckaert wrote: It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_nor...@msn.com Wed Jan 17 15:23:12 2007 From: steve_nor...@msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Wed Jan 17 17:25:28 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! Message-ID: bay124-w50bfc12d54a99b09e969eaf6...@phx.gbl When certain experts bid you know an item is genuine. There were several items I was leery about until I saw one of the experts making a bid. Steve I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich From
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
Several previous attempts have been made to horn in on the eBay business and they have all failed. I do not think Google will fair any better than the last guy who tried. I do not see how identifying a bidder as Bidder 1, Bidder 2 etc. will have any impact on the amount of shill bidding. Only a complete idiot would assume that their actions were now hidden by the Bidder X label. Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 15:47:13 -0500, wilenz...@bellsouth.net wrote: I agree completely. It's very stupid and useless. I find it helpful to see exactly who is bidding, and this adds a certain amount of enjoyment to the eBay game. If eBay wanted to eliminate a lot of problems, they could simply do away with the 2nd chance offer. Hiding the names of the bidders will certainly increase the number of shill bidders. The change is very ill advised and one that eBay will certainly regret. I have heard that Google is considering getting into the auction business, and if they do then eBay will be in real trouble. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Melvin d...@old-phonographs.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! Well, for one; I try not to purposely bid against some of my other phono friends that live in my same town. It isn't that there is a problem bidding against someone you know, I just choose to not do it as a courtesy to my friends. This change eliminates that possibility. I also know who many of the real phono ebay users are. It makes me feel better when legit folks are bidding. And, I see no value to anyone in this change. It's stupid. Dan - Original Message - From: Rich rich-m...@octoxol.com To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:48 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! The bidder information is available to the seller. It is ONLY converted to Bidder 1 etc. for the other bidders. I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:25:07 -0500, Ken Danckaert wrote: It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
I have seen a number of instances where I was able to determine a shill bidder (in this case I'll call them a ftiend of the seller) where they are bidding on items fron a particular seller. It usually has nothing to do with the category of the item. In won auction they are bidding on a phonograph item, in another they are bidding onb an expensive doll, in another they are bidding on a gernerator -- all from the same seller. The odds of this kind of interaction is extremely high. I do this by researching the high several bidders in an auction that I'm interested in. This is valuable to me indetermining whether to bid on a particular auction or on auctions from a particular seller. If someone is using a friend to up the bids on there items, chances are they will not be on the same server and will not have the same IP. Seeing these relationships lets me sort these people out. Another use that I use that information for is to track bidders that have similar interests to me. I can track items they are bidding on. If they have found something that I also want, I'll bid on it. Some may not like this , but it is an auction and everything is open to everyone equally. In other cases seeing shat other bidders are bidding on might lead me to a seller that lists items in a manner that I would not have found it. Ken Rich wrote: The bidder information is available to the seller. It is ONLY converted to Bidder 1 etc. for the other bidders. I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 13:25:07 -0500, Ken Danckaert wrote: It seems to me that it will not do much good to discuss this only on Phono-L. You all need to state your displeasure to Ebay itself. That is not an easy task since Ebay makes it very difficult to send something directly to them. If anyone knows a good way to send them your comments please share it with the rest of us. I have commented on the new policy on one of the chat boards but there is no way to know if Ebay pays much attention to that. I make heavy use of the bidder info to protect myself as both a buyer and seller. Ebay has shown themselves to be incapable of protecting the buyers and sellers from the abuses that have been discussed here. I believe the policy is purely profit based and they could care less about the rest of us. Unless they can guarantee protection to buyers and sellers from the abuses that are rampent on Ebay, then they should not remove about the only way we have to protect ourselves. Ken ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Standard A - Thread Mount Horn Information
I am trying to locate a decent Standard A (thread mounted) horn for a machine I have. Many, perhaps most, were iridescent red, but I would be happy with the non iridescent red also. If someone has a decent original for sale, please contact me. It is for a machine that I personally own (and will be keeping). Walt
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
The same has been used against me, in revenge for outbidding someone! Followed me around, upping the bid on everything I bid on, just for spite. Some countries' privacy laws, such as Germany's, do not allow Ebat to show such information; that's what I would like to see them adopt for all. - Original Message - Another use that I use that information for is to track bidders that have similar interests to me. I can track items they are bidding on. If they have found something that I also want, I'll bid on it. Some may not like this , but it is an auction and everything is open to everyone equally.
[Phono-L] Orthophonic Reproducer Bearings
Hey Walt, Not only did five out of four students at my High School have trouble with fractions but the other half couldn't even count! Here is the link to the Victor electrodeposited Orthophonic diaphragm we were talking about. I doubt it was ever put into production as the Orthophonic era was so brief and likely it was faster to form a diaphragm between dies. A fascinating idea none the less. http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT1793483id=a2lFEBAJpg=PP1dq=vic tor+talking+machine+1931#PPP1,M1 Wanted: I am in search or a Victor Orthophonic/Electrola horn driver for a 10-51 or later 8-60/9-40. This is the large version with the electromagnetic field coil not the more common permanent magnet horseshoe type. Victor refered to it as an intermediate speaker and it contains a large electrically driven orthophonic diaphragm. I can send pictures of the insides for anyone interested. I would be most pleased if everyone would keep me in mind. Best Wishes, Mark [Original Message] From: Walt waltsomm...@comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: 1/11/2007 10:03:32 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Orthophonic Reproducer Bearings Mark, Five out of four students is the same as saying 125% of the students...lol... I was reading another Victor patent that had to do with the last [production] version of the No.2 reproducer. If I look it up again I will get the number for everyone to take a look. In that particular patent, Eldridge Johnson set forth several concepts, not all of which were ever implemented in production. One of the ideas featured a needle bar balance system that used both a spring to establish neutral balance of the needle bar as well as bearings to keep the bar in parallel [with the record plane]. But it is obvious why Victor never implemented the system - there is no doubt that the springs could not be so precisely made or installed or bearings so accurately set as to not conflict (in some degree) with the forces that the bearings would otherwise try to uniformly establish about the circumference of the bar ends. The bottom line is that the springs would always have a tendency to move the bar away from center (probably along both axes) and work against what the bearings were trying to do. It's just a bad idea... So what was Eldridge Johnson's motive for such a bizarre design? I think the man's engineering skills were such that he certainly knew that the idea, although patented and easy enough to build, could not work as well as those already in use. I often wonder that Victor patented so many ideas just to be able to elbow-out the competition, whether it was a bad design, or a good one... Interestingly, I have never seen a balance spring used by any company that looked like Eldridge's last No.2 design. On the other hand, the bearing setup he proposed is remarkably similar to the later 6-bearing per side Columbia designs like you see in the No.9 and other later parts. But then, Columbia was one of those companies that not only had enough money to go to court against Victor, but could pay a lawyer to live in the courtroom if necessary...hmmm It's not difficult to improve on Victor's old designs, especially considering the immense progress in materials engineering, but I, for one, would rather strive for originality if only to be original. About a year ago, I developed small inserts for the Orthophonic that are made of a composite that can be installed in place of the bearings. They work better than the bearings, can't rust, and probably have a friction coefficient that is 100 times less than the steel bearings...but after I proved I could do it, I threw them all away...cuz that just ain't no fun Just a glance at modern loudspeaker engineering hints at all sorts of Mylar and titanium films that would probably be superior diaphragms for most all reproducers, but that ain't no fun either... BTW, When you were here xmas eve with Doug you mentioned a Victor patent that had to do with an electroplating or electroforming process which was ultimately to be used for the production (I think) of diaphragms. Do you by chance have the reference to that, or remember any keywords for it? Walt --Original Message- From: phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of mark lynch Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 11:24 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Orthophonic Reproducer Bearings Thanks Walt, it is amazing how those fractions work...did you know that five out of four student at my High School had trouble with them? For all of us who have dealt with rebuilding Orthophonic soundboxes it looks like Victor had another idea rather than the 1/16 balls to support the stylus bar. http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT1796149id=XldNEBAJpg=PP1dq=vic tor+talking+machine+1931#PPP1,M1 Like many patented ideas it looks like this one was never put into
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
Having read through the previous posts as to the usefulness of the actual bidder IDs. The one item that jumps out is the total lack of feedback information. The value of that seems minimal to me but it does have value. why do I care if another bidder is less than desirable as a friend. The lack of the identification of the bidders will prevent the harassment of the winners though, as mentioned below. All of the rest of the comments are also true for the live auction setting. This is especially true when the live auction also accepts phone in bids and prior bids to be placed by the clerk. seems to me that the majority of this bidder research is directed at determining the bidding habits of the competition so as to make the purchase at the absolute lowest price. I have no problem with that, by the way. But I have yet to see an argument for why the stated purpose of the new ebay policy will increase the risk to any other bidder. As to the comment that by checking the bidder history one sees that a bidder bids on items from a specific seller and those items are not related to each other. It is entirely possible that the bidder has located a seller who he considers a cut or two above the normal eBay seller and also has wide and various interests. I have a list of my prefered sellers and I periodically check their listings to see if they have something that I can use, if so I bid on it. Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 21:32:51 -0500, Dan K wrote: The same has been used against me, in revenge for outbidding someone! Followed me around, upping the bid on everything I bid on, just for spite. Some countries' privacy laws, such as Germany's, do not allow Ebat to show such information; that's what I would like to see them adopt for all. - Original Message - Another use that I use that information for is to track bidders that have similar interests to me. I can track items they are bidding on. If they have found something that I also want, I'll bid on it. Some may not like this , but it is an auction and everything is open to everyone equally. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
Or, there is also the remote possibility that they also have been fooled. Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 18:23:12 -0500, Steven Medved wrote: When certain experts bid you know an item is genuine. There were several items I was leery about until I saw one of the experts making a bid. Steve I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay!
In a message dated 1/17/2007 6:37:58 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, trainman...@prodigy.net writes: I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich The phonograph community is really very small. When you've been in this game for a while, you get to know who the knowledgeable bidders are. When I see a potentially rare item attracting bids from knowledgeable collectors, I am much more likely to bid myself. This affords a certain degree of protection from buying mistakes. I'm sure everyone has his or her own system for providing security in bidding, but I think it is unfortunate that eBay has chosen to remove some of my security. ---Art Heller From aph4...@aol.com Thu Jan 18 08:18:09 2007 From: aph4...@aol.com (aph4...@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 18 08:18:24 2007 Subject: Fwd: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! Message-ID: cd1.778940c.32e0f...@aol.com In a message dated 1/17/2007 9:50:58 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, aph4...@aol.com writes: I might be missing something here, so please clarify, if you would. What exactly does knowing the bidders actual eBay user IDs provide to you as regards protection that Bidder 1 etc. does not? Rich The phonograph community is really very small. When you've been in this game for a while, you get to know who the knowledgeable bidders are. When I see a potentially rare item attracting bids from knowledgeable collectors, I am much more likely to bid myself. This affords a certain degree of protection from buying mistakes. I'm sure everyone has his or her own system for providing security in bidding, but I think it is unfortunate that eBay has chosen to remove some of my security. ---Art Heller -- next part -- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: aph4...@aol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:44:12 EST Size: 4082 Url: http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/attachments/20070118/0dd12e11/attachment.mht From lo...@oldcrank.com Thu Jan 18 11:33:27 2007 From: lo...@oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Thu Jan 18 11:33:47 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! In-Reply-To: 01cf01c73a59$de510320$0200a...@daddell References: 01cf01c73a59$de510320$0200a...@daddell Message-ID: de07fd7b-6caf-47bd-997b-e4f074da7...@oldcrank.com On Jan 17, 2007, at 9:06 AM, Walt wrote: ... I would vote for Loran Hughes to be president. Hey...Maybe that would be a good fundraiser for the coming years: A bumper sticker that reads, Loran Hughes is MY President. But in the meantime, don't forget what Inspector Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood - one of the guys who used to be on the bumper sticker that we are going to put Loran on) said in the 1973 movie, Magnum Force: A man's got to know his limitations. Go ahead, make my day. Now you're just scaring me, Walt! LOL, Loran From aph4...@aol.com Thu Jan 18 13:20:13 2007 From: aph4...@aol.com (aph4...@aol.com) Date: Thu Jan 18 13:20:41 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Loran for President Message-ID: cec.774f9f1.32e13...@aol.com In a message dated 1/18/2007 12:35:50 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, lo...@oldcrank.com writes: ... I would vote for Loran Hughes to be president. Hey...Maybe that would be a good fundraiser for the coming years: A bumper sticker that reads, Loran Hughes is MY President. But in the meantime, don't forget what Inspector Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood - one of the guys who used to be on the bumper sticker that we are going to put Loran on) said in the 1973 movie, Magnum Force: A man's got to know his limitations. Go ahead, make my day. Now you're just scaring me, Walt! LOL, Loran Hey. If Tom Tancredo can run for president (shudder!) certainly Loran Hughes can too! --Art Heller From klin...@modex.com Thu Jan 18 16:52:23 2007 From: klin...@modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Thu Jan 18 16:52:42 2007 Subject: [Phono-L] Reminder: ARSC Conference Travel Grants Message-ID: 01d001c73b64$152149e0$0201a...@billqbszr49l7m The following message has been posted by the Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC). If you need further information, please click on the link or e-mail address below. Please DO NOT simply hit REPLY or post further messages to this list. -- ARSC CONFERENCE TRAVEL GRANTS -- Application Deadline: January 30, 2007 The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is now accepting applications for ARSC Conference Travel Grants to be awarded in 2007. Grant recipients are awarded: -- complimentary registration for the entire ARSC Annual Conference -- gratis registration for the Pre-Conference Workshop, and -- reimbursement up to US$750 to defray the expenses of transportation and lodging. The grant requirements are detailed
