My point is that just looking at the bidder's bidding history and the sellers' selling history does not provide much meaningful information. The exceptions are the stolen IDs, no feedback high buck item, and several others. All of these are easy to spot and check out. My point is that if a seller uses shill bidding to run up the final price and is reasonably creative you will never know it. This is just exactly how it happens at the live in person auctions.
Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood was right though, "A man's got to know his limitations." If you lack the ability to spot a bad deal (auction) then you are going to get taken to the cleaners. Same for poker games... I realize also that there is massive resistance to any change, good or bad. Something about a golden vice comes immediately to mind. I do not see any real problem with the eBay change as regards >$200.00 value auctions. And I do ever so often look in on the eBay community forums. I guess my thought is this, why do I need to know who Bidder 1 is? What information will this provide that will possibly protect me from being taken? One thing you can be quite sure of is that if an item hits eBay and it is fairly and correctly described and is also a desirable collectable the final price will be right up there. There will be no bargain deal. Rich On Wed, 17 Jan 2007 12:06:42 -0500, Walt wrote: >Rich, >This concern may have been best addressed by Michael (Funk) last evening. He >wrote in part: "check out some of the ebay discussions boards on this >subject." >Those boards, despite some of the irrational and subjective peanut-gallery >noisemakers you will see, are the best place to find others who, probably >like me, you, and so many other genuinely responsible and decent folks in >Phono-L, really do have a focused and genuine concern for how these changes >affect eBay users in general. >Now...If eBay were to implement a truly democratic process rather than a >dictatorship, I would vote for Loran Hughes to be president. Hey...Maybe >that would be a good fundraiser for the coming years: A bumper sticker that >reads, "Loran Hughes is MY President". But in the meantime, don't forget >what Inspector Harry Callahan (a.k.a Clint Eastwood - one of the guys who >used to be on the bumper sticker that we are going to put Loran on) said in >the 1973 movie, Magnum Force: >"A man's got to know his limitations." >Walt >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >Behalf Of Rich >Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:04 AM >To: Antique Phonograph List >Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! >As eBay only provides a 30 day look back and there is no way to find the IP >address of the seller and >bidders from the information provided by eBay, how does this recent change - >"... makes it harder to >detect fraudulent bidding too,...". The only thing that I have seen is >multiple bids from the same >individual. That just looks dumb to me. To make shill bidding work there >needs to be a minimum of 2 >bidders, at least one of which is the shill. How are you going to RELIABLY >detect this? If is is poorly >done it is obvious but if it is done right you will never know. The only >way to tell is to have the IP of >the seller and all bidders then if the bids from two bidders or the seller >and one bidder originate from >the same IP you would be correct in suspecting something. >In my opinion this is a tempest in a very small tea pot. I find the highly >inflated "shipping and >handling" charges much more egregious and revealing as to the ethics of the >seller. >Rich >On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 22:48:30 -0800 (PST), Donald Dellmann wrote: >>Generally in the past, a "private auction" was used for items where it was >likely that people wouldn't >want their friends to know what they were buying. Prime examples would be >items of a sexual or >fetishistic nature, or unusual items out of the "mainstream" of society. >Applying it to auctions in >general does protect bidders, I can see eBay's point, but it also makes it >harder to detect fraudulent >bidding too, so I have to lean towards the side of opposition to the new >policy. >> >> Don >>Daniel Melvin <[email protected]> wrote: >> I have always avoided auctions that hide bidders. I agree with Jeff's >>suspicions. I just don't trust sellers that hide things. It just feels >>wrong. I suppose many people have had OK transactions this way. It's not >for >>me though. >>Dan >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: >>To: >>Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:57 PM >>Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Protected Bidding on ebay! >>> >>> In a message dated 1/16/2007 4:13:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, >>> [email protected] writes: >>> >>> Has anyone bid, or won anything with these bidder identification >>> protected >>> auctions? The seller of the Zonophone-A is doing that with that >particular >>> auction. >>> >>> >>> >>> ==================== >>> eBay has always had an option for keeping bidders private, but this is >not >>> the case here. Recently eBay instituted a new policy whereby anything >that >>> tops >>> $200 becomes "protected." It's not the seller's choice. Instead of >showing >>> bidder IDs it shows "Bidder 1, " "Bidder 2" etc. This is an attempt to >>> combat >>> rampant fraud since so many scammers are sending fake "second chance" >>> notices >>> to underbidders. By hiding bidders on higher-priced items they hope to >>> cut >>> down on these scams. It will also prevent people from offering similar >>> items >>> to underbidders by private message. >>> >>> On the bid history page you can view some statistics on the bidders. >>> Perhaps >>> the most telling is the one that shows what percent of the bidder's total >>> bid activity is with the particular seller. In the Zonophone auction, for >>> example, the current high bidder has 42% of activity with the seller. >>> That's >>> certainly very high. It also shows the categories the bidder has been >>> active in, >>> so it's very easy to see if a person who spends most of his time buying >>> Christmas ornaments is suddenly a player on high-end collector >>> phonographs. >>> >>> The new system is far from ideal, and I confess I liked to see what other >>> people were bidding on. But by the same token, I never liked airing my >>> own bid >>> history publicly so I guess I'm a hypocrite at heart! Overall I think >>> this >>> new system will have more pros than cons. (And it will hopefully stifle >>> some of >>> the con artists, pun intended....) >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Rene Rondeau >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>_______________________________________________ >>Phono-L mailing list >>http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>_______________________________________________ >>Phono-L mailing list >>http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >_______________________________________________ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.13/632 - Release Date: 1/16/2007 > >_______________________________________________ >Phono-L mailing list >http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
