Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola - electric motor question
motor, which needs to dissipate a lot of power and will get VERY HOT in operation, which is why they are typically wound on a ceramic core. This is what most of the player manufacturers did in their original designs. This allows the motor to continue to be used with either DC (maybe if you're still living in the downtown New York City subway system) or typical AC. If you only plan to use the motor with AC, you can look for a fixed transformer that provides the required voltage change that you need. You'll need to use a fairly hefty transformer for this application since the motor is probably consuming 25 watts or so and the transformer will have to provide sufficient current for the job. In summary, your Columbia motor is probably a low voltage universal type. So you DO NOT want to hook it up directly to your 120 volt household current. Doing so will burn it up pretty quickly. Perform the variable voltage check described above to determine the proper motor voltage and then find a way to step down your household 120 volt outlet power to what the motor wants. Greg Bogantz On 11/6/2019 5:11 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: You should be able to figure out what connects to what with visual inspection and a meter that measures continuity. Most of the old motors went through some kind of resistance device, a long coil of wire on a ceramic tube, for instance, as a way of controlling voltage. You may want to submit the question to the Electrola group., electr...@yahoogroups.com<mailto:electr...@yahoogroups.com> but don't wait too long. Yahoo is abandoning these mailing list type groups. Ron L -Original Message- From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2019 3:39 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Robert Wright Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola - electric motor question Anyone? No one here knows about these Columbia electric motors? I would be shocked if that were true! On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L <mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org> wrote: Hello, all! Got a question on behalf of a lovely couple I get this weekend regarding a big, beautiful Columbia Grafonola. I was going to find them a crank for it, since they thought that's what was missing, but upon further inspection, it's got the same situation as in the attached ad. Pretty cool, and super clean as well. Problem is: how do you connect this motor to an outlet? No cable included (that's the easy part), couple of loose wires, not sure what does what... I only know Victor induction motors! Anyone have a schematic for getting this thing wired up back to original spec? I'd sure love to help these folks if possible. Thanks from them and myself in advance! Best, Robert __ _ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> [https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=link> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola - electric motor question
Anyone? No one here knows about these Columbia electric motors? I would be shocked if that were true! On Oct 25, 2019, at 5:35 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > Hello, all! Got a question on behalf of a lovely couple I get this weekend > regarding a big, beautiful Columbia Grafonola. I was going to find them a > crank for it, since they thought that's what was missing, but upon further > inspection, it's got the same situation as in the attached ad. Pretty cool, > and super clean as well. > > Problem is: how do you connect this motor to an outlet? No cable included > (that's the easy part), couple of loose wires, not sure what does what... I > only know Victor induction motors! Anyone have a schematic for getting this > thing wired up back to original spec? I'd sure love to help these folks if > possible. > > Thanks from them and myself in advance! > > Best, > Robert > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza speed readout needle chatter
Well, after another round of removing and cleaning the indicator mech, and putting a longer pad (which didn't help at all) and adjusting this and that, I decided to just leave the damned thing off for a while so I could simply enjoy my phonograph for a few days… And the noise is still there. The clacking component of the sound, it turns out, was actually the governor "arm" that gets lowered by the speed adjustment screw on top, at the point of contact between them. So at this point, it's a governor problem, evidently. Is there anyone on this list I can send this motor for repair/adjustment? I simply don't have the time nor the skills to take it all apart and get it right, but I do have money. I'm all about learning to fix these machines and have done lots of work on them, but I need some expert help on this one. I just don't have it in me. Anyone? Thanks, Robert On Sep 13, 2019, at 6:22 PM, SN Medved via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: WD-40 is not a lubricant. It works good as a cleaner or to displace water, but not as a lubricant. Liquid Bearings works well and has no smell and is synthetic. Steve From: Phono-L mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org>> on behalf of Robert Wright via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2019 12:34 PM To: Antique Phonograph List mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> Cc: Robert Wright mailto:esrobe...@hotmail.com>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza speed readout needle chatter Firstly, thank you both for the detailed info! Ron, it looks like your suggestions are aimed at reducing vibration from the governor mech itself, the application of which makes perfect sense. I just may try that on all the motors here, in fact. Thank you! Andrew, it sounds like you're suggesting that once the indicator arbor is in (let's call it) 78rpm position, it is in that specific axis (or axes) where the hole may have become enlarged and/or the arbor's pivot post has become polished -- i.e., there's no chatter at other speeds because the indicator pad is in a different position, placing the posts where the wear has not occurred. This makes perfect sense to me, especially as the indicator chatter happens with at least one other motor here (a spring one, not the electric one I initially wrote about). I'm sure both machines have operated at 78rpm or thereabouts their entire lives, indeed. It also makes sense that adding grease to the pad helps, but only for a few plays -- once it has cleared out of the path, the posts are again in (let's call it) chatter position. In that light, would you think installing a significantly longer leather pad into the arbor would change its rotational position enough to place it into a "fresh" spot? It would also increase the return spring tension slightly, which may help alleviate chatter. Doesn't seem like it would take much, perhaps an additional 16th - 8th of an inch. It might get another 100 years of chatter-free use if so. Thoughts? (I've also used a spritz of WD-40 to lubricate the post holes -- perhaps I'll slather a fingertip of grease on them instead.) I also considered sympathetic resonance, but I don't know how much the math lines up, considering it is a range of speeds (albeit a narrow one) while the 60Hz vibration is more or less constant (I realize the 60Hz vibration and any errant governor vibration are two different things). But the hole wear, in my mind, lines up to that problem range quite well! I say it often in my emails here, but it bears repeating once again: to someone like me who loves phonographs much more than they have technically studied them, this list isn't just a handy resource, it's a lifeline. Thank you, gentlemen. Reporting back soon, Robert PS - In my defense, I never said the source of the chatter was the point of contact between the pad and the flywheel! I only meant to describe the symptom, i.e., where the noise occurred, not the underlying disease that might suggest a cure. I just get in a hurry sometimes. I'll try to be clearer! :-) On Sep 12, 2019, at 3:30 PM, Andrew Baron via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: Hi Robert. Intriguing problem, and I think I may be able to shed a little light. My supposition could be wrong, but if you look at the physics of the thing, it could point to not one issue (“…obviously the contact point between the leather nib…”), but more likely two issues. You have to raise your perception above where the symptom’s cause would appear to originate, and look at the whole picture. The key to solving your mystery may be directly related to something you conveyed very precisely, that the issue occurs over an extremely narrow band of speeds. So, it appears that we have a primary cause (vibration source at the leather and flywheel), exacerbated or amplified by a secondary condition, which I will a
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza speed readout needle chatter
only in the specific areas of the arbors and holes that would be in constant contact when the machine is set to run the correct speed, assuming that for most of the machine’s life it was set to run at the correct speed, thus causing the wear at those limited locations. Keep in mind that even though the holes may appear to be a very close fit to the arbors and thus touching them all around, the reality is that the contact point between arbors and holes can only be over a specific small part of the ID of the holes. For them to touch all around, the holes would have to be the same size as the arbors, which would be a zero clearance, zero tolerance hole — almost a press fit. The holes are larger than the arbors to provide freedom of movement. Freedom of movement when constrained within certain engineered limits is a good thing. Freedom of movement outside of those limits can either cause problems or allow problems originating elsewhere to come to light. Chances are that this machine has lived with a slight vibration at the governor most of its working life, and this has in effect caused more wear to occur in a very narrow and specific way. ANY vibration will lead to greater wear on associated parts than the same arrangement with no discernible vibration. There are multiple causes of vibration at the governor and pad, which could be explored as part of another investigation. To correct your immediate problem, and assuming nothing is done to correct the vibration, then you might approach where the visible effects of this vibration manifest, by sourcing a different indicator frame and arbor. While the indicator needle serves to show the turntable speed, it also makes a marvelous vibration indicator! All of the above supposition is based on imagining all of the related parts working in the mind, in the absence of physical inspection, and therefore remains in the realm of theory. To check to see if the arbor holes are worn slightly out of round, a clockmaker would insert a "smoothing broach" into the holes (tapered steel tool of round cross section), until the tool gently seats in the hole. Then they would hold the indicator frame and broach up to a light source and hunt for a slim, crescent moon shaped irregularity showing at the hole, around the broach. If present, this would prove a worn hole. The test would be repeated for each hole. Wear would likely be greater at the hole closest to the steel arm and hairspring that supports the pad, than at the opposite end of the same arbor. You should also inspect the arbors themselves, where they touch the holes. I would expect to see that a narrow portion of their OD would at minimum appear more polished, indicating a history of (normal) rubbing. They could still be in tolerance however unless they measure out of round with a caliper. All this conjecture about worn holes is based solely on your comments about the problem manifesting only across a narrow portion of the speed range. For a condition where vibration of the needle is present across the entire speed spectrum, I would focus on resolving the source of the vibration, which could be as simple as refreshing the mounting pads between the motor housing and motor board. Vibration transferred to the motor board from the motor, could result in sympathetic vibration from the motor board to the indicator frame mounted under it, even if there is no wear at the indicator frame holes and arbors. In this case, you can ignore nearly all of the above. Ultimately, if the inidcator assembly is worn and replacements weren’t readily available, they could be restored to their factory tolerances. Best and good luck. Keep me posted on what you learn, Andrew Baron Santa Fe, NM On Sep 12, 2019, at 7:47 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: Hello to all! I hope someone can help me with this incredibly annoying problem: the speed indicator mech of one of my Credenza X's chatters at 78rpm It's fine at 80, it's fine at 90 (I have a Hughes adapter I use for Pathé verticals), and it's fine below 77. But right at 78 to 79rpm, it chatters. It's pretty obviously the contact point between the leather nib and the governor disc -- once it's up to speed, it bounces instead of riding smoothly against the surface. I've cleaned the disc and even held some 2400 sandpaper against it, I've replaced the leather nib with fresh leather shoestring of two different gauges (one which was sold specifically as material for phonograph brakes), I've soaked the nibs in oil, I've slathered them with lithium grease… Nothing helps. I can get a few plays without chatter if I apply more grease, or clean off the grease that's there (same result -- "disturbing" that contact point in either way helps for a few plays). Anyone else ever had to deal with this? Thanks in advance, Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http:
[Phono-L] Credenza speed readout needle chatter
Hello to all! I hope someone can help me with this incredibly annoying problem: the speed indicator mech of one of my Credenza X's chatters at 78rpm It's fine at 80, it's fine at 90 (I have a Hughes adapter I use for Pathé verticals), and it's fine below 77. But right at 78 to 79rpm, it chatters. It's pretty obviously the contact point between the leather nib and the governor disc -- once it's up to speed, it bounces instead of riding smoothly against the surface. I've cleaned the disc and even held some 2400 sandpaper against it, I've replaced the leather nib with fresh leather shoestring of two different gauges (one which was sold specifically as material for phonograph brakes), I've soaked the nibs in oil, I've slathered them with lithium grease… Nothing helps. I can get a few plays without chatter if I apply more grease, or clean off the grease that's there (same result -- "disturbing" that contact point in either way helps for a few plays). Anyone else ever had to deal with this? Thanks in advance, Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] What's wrong with this motor?
Thanks as always, phono friends! Always grateful for this resource! Best, Robert On Jul 15, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > And how easy is it to fix? > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/w4QGVpMLNGHUuksx9 > > Thanks in advance! > Robert > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] What's wrong with this motor?
And how easy is it to fix? https://photos.app.goo.gl/w4QGVpMLNGHUuksx9 Thanks in advance! Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I definitely didn't see any of that the first time around! Wow, this really gives me something to work with, thank you! I'll try a couple spare pieces of wood for practice. Thanks, Rich! And thank you for sending it again! Robert On Jan 13, 2019, at 8:20 AM, Rich via Phono-L wrote: > That is why I resent the info. E-mail is an unreliable communications medium > at best. > > Generally speaking the base coats are highly thinned filtered buglac which is > the basic shellac that once dissolved has to set for 2-3 days for the wax and > bug parts to settle out. This has a rich red-amber color and it then thinned > to the consistency of water, use a high dollar professional watercolor brush > only for best results. Apply enough coats of shellac to almost fill the > blemish and then use the violin varnish for the top coat. Use rottenstone and > hard felt pad with paraffin oil to clean up the edges once varnish has dried. > Using Behlen Behcol thinner is highly recommended, do not use cheap methanol > as a substitute. If Behcol thinner is not obtainable then use Everclear from > liquor store. This sounds complex but it actually goes very fast and easy > once you collect all the materials. Google can find the Behlen products. > https://www.shellac.net/ <-buglac source & Behlen products > > --Rich > > On 1/13/19 5:17 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >> I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info. >> >> *From:* Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L >> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM >> *To:* phono-l@oldcrank.org >> *Cc:* Rich >> *Subject:* Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! >> I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. >> The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be >> difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac >> followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. >> The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing >> technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material >> that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying >> type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. >> --Rich >> On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >>> Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most >>> of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the >>> arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the >>> hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it >>> so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with >>> 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against >>> any kind of moisture left over. >>> Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit >>> involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? >>> Thanks, >>> Robert >>> On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L >>> mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: >>>> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >>>> finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >>>> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use >>>> polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to >>>> avoid squeal. >>>> Ron >>> ___ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.org >>> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
What would you use to thin airplane glue? Any normal paint thinner? From: Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:51:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! No, that is cabinet finish. Gold plating was usually coated with thinned cellulose lacquer. Fingernail polish also contains oil so it is a bit soft and true cellulose lacquer is rather tough to come by bet bet is Testors thinned clear airplane dope from you local hobby shop. On 1/13/19 2:44 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L wrote: > And that would have been applied to metal finished parts? > > Ron L > > -Original Message- > From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Rich via > Phono-L > Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 6:39 PM > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Cc: Rich > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! > > I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. > > The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be > difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac > followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. > > The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing > technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material > that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying > type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. > > --Rich > > On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: >> Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get >> most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was >> that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but >> I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk >> that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the >> moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of >> it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. >> >> Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a >> bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? >> >> >> Thanks, >> Robert >> >> >> >> On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L >> mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: >> >>> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >>> finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >>> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >>> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >>> pad to avoid squeal. >>> Ron >> >> ___ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.org >> Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org >> > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
I'm sure you may have, but I never saw it. Either way I appreciate the info. From: Phono-L on behalf of Rich via Phono-L Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 5:39:10 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Cc: Rich Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! I previously answered your finish question in an earlier post. The closest thing to what was used OEM is Behlen Violin Varnish, can be difficult to find but it works well. The base coats were plain shellac followed by a top coat of the Violin Varnish. The term VARNISH does not describe a specific product or finishing technique. It is used as a generic term to describe a finishing material that contains some type of oil. In many cases it will be a non-drying type of finish that has a elastic like consistency. --Rich On 1/11/19 3:39 PM, Robert Wright via Phono-L wrote: > Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get > most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was > that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but > I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk > that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the > moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of > it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. > > Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a > bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? > > > Thanks, > Robert > > > > On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L > mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: > >> You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the >> finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the >> mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not >> use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the >> pad to avoid squeal. >> Ron > > ___ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.org > Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org > ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
That's a great idea, thank you! If I can get these gold parts looking newish, that's what I'll do. :-) On Jan 12, 2019, at 7:09 PM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: They may have used clear shellac. I don’t think there were many options. In the jewelry industry, gold plate is often given a coat of clear lacquer to retard signs of wear. For parts that get touched a lot, I sometimes use a coat of clear nail polish. It flows and evens out nicely and is really tough. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org<mailto:l-boun...@oldcrank.org>] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 4:39 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Robert Wright Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along! Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X coming along!
Thanks (again) Ron! I ended up using dish soap and a toothbrush to get most of it removed, but I'll try the WD-40 method. My main concern was that the arms that move with the tonearm didn't move easily at all, but I think the hot water I was using melted away a good bit of the gunk that was making it so stiff. After a thorough drying, I oiled all the moving parts with 3-in-one, then rubbed an oily paper towel over all of it to guard against any kind of moisture left over. Anyone know about the factory varnish situation? I know it's probably a bit involved, but what am I (considering) getting into, exactly? Thanks, Robert On Jan 11, 2019, at 9:11 AM, Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: You only need to remove old oil from the joints and hand crud from the finish. I’d use (have used) WD040 and a toothbrush to clean the mechanism and spray cleaner like Fantastic to clean the gold. Do not use polish. Relubricate moving parts with light oil. Put oil on the pad to avoid squeal. Ron ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Credenza X and VE8-12X motor rebuilds
Happy December, friends! Thanks again for the help with my recently-acquired 8-12. George V did the mounting bracket to be like new while Walt is working on the reproducer. I also stumbled upon a Credenza X with a good bit of cabinet damage and no reproducer, but with a clean motor and interior, with the bracketless tonearm in great shape. I can do all the woodwork on the cabinet, but the two things I could use some help with are: What's the best way to find a good machine-specific reproducer for the Credenza X? I know it's one of the best ones they made, but I can't spend $600 on it right now. What would you do? Maybe find an Orthophonic suitcase model and scavenge the 'box off it? More pressing at the moment are the motors. The 8-12's motor I've mentioned already -- has a big, loud 60Hz hum from the coils loosening their grips on the cores. I can't find anywhere popsicle sticks will even fit, and I'd rather secure them with that doping compound that motor repair guys 'paint' all over them to quiet them. Basically, I know I'm in over my head there. And the motor for the Credenza X is nearly dead silent for the hum problem, but it unfortunately has some other mechanical noise I can't figure out (a clacking purr type of noise -- maybe the governor weights coming into contact with something they shouldn't?). It's always something! So I'm hoping some of you folks know someone out there who routinely rebuilds these motors who can take my money in exchange for doing these two. Or that one of you might be willing to. I'm hoping to dope up the coils on both of them to keep them as silent as possible for decades to come, and to have them disassembled, cleaned thoroughly, and relubed with the proper grease/oil, and to have them adjusted for optimal performance with new pads for the governors (and speed indicator in the case of the Credenza). I'm happy to pay whatever is required, obviously, I just need to know who to ask. Thanks (as always) for any and all help and advice! Best, Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket
Thanks for the definitive info, Jim! Of course wood is transparent to magnetic fields -- I hope I would've realized that without prompting once I've gotten past being intimidated by this whole process, haha. (Maybe not!) It's very helpful to know that they came with wooden shims originally, though -- that totally puts my mind to rest that this doesn't have to be considered a 'quick fix' kind of solution. I really want this thing to play the best it can for a long time. You know, I should've also realized coil vibrations are lost energy. I do a lot with speakers and turntables, and everything in those realms is all about management of mechanical energy. I guess I really need to just get over this whole 'big scary electric motors' thing once and for all. Thanks again! Robert From: Phono-L on behalf of Jim Nichol via Phono-L Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 3:07 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Jim Nichol Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket No, Robert. Wooden wedges between the coils and the steel magnetic core do not cause any losses. They are transparent to magnetism. Also, the motor will be more efficient if the coil is NOT moving or vibrating. Movement wastes mechanical energy. When I worked in the industrial world, a transformer with a loud hum was almost always caused by the wooden wedges falling out. There are supposed to be wedges between the steel core and the windings in a transformer to prevent movement and hum. Jim Nichol On Nov 20, 2018, at 1:15 AM, Robert Wright via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: Thank you, Mike! Hahaha, my phone's speech-to-text function butchers what I tell it so frequently that I read right through your 'mess' no problem. So if I stick popsicle sticks between the outer coil windings and the core, will any voltage be lost/wasted from anything being aligned differently than originally manufactured, or does that not make any real difference in this situation? I did try the plug in both polarities -- no change in hum volume. It has worked on plenty of 60s and 70s portable phonos I've had, though. Best, Robert From: Phono-L mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org>> on behalf of Mike Stitt via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:08 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Mike Stitt Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket Man my last email was a mess. Popsicle sticks can be used as shims to "tighten" up the coils. They tend to shrink. Glyptal is a red slushing type of paint that insulates and drys hard. It is common for use in re-insulating coils. The spray type isn't nearly as good as the brush on type. It shouldn't make a difference but you might try turning the plug around. If that should elimate the hum, test for voltage between the motor and a known ground. Before polarized plugs touching say a radio chassis and a water pipe would zap you, 115 volts. Mike Damn tablets! On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:30 PM Mike Stitt mailto:smst...@gmail.com> wrote: Loose coils can cause a hum type of sound. More than likely the swab used was glyptal. If the coila are lose use popcycle sticks. Mike On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:21 PM Leroy Barco via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org> wrote: I once had an electric credenza with a bad hum in the motor. I found a small motor guy who diagnosed that it had “dried out “. He had a solution he swabbed on several times that permeated the windings and fixed the hum. I’m like Sgt. Schultz on the details. “I know nothing!” LeRoy On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 12:25 PM Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: The Victor book gives some tips on reducing hum, such as checking the plate tightness, and adding felt between cabinet and motorboard. There are no circuit components other than switches.Have you checked with George Vollema for the tone arm bracket? I understand that Wyatt Marcus is doing really good Orth reproducer rebuilds. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org>] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 9:03 PM To: Phono L Cc: Robert Wright Subject: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket Hey everyone, hope all is well with you folks! I need a whole new tonearm mounting bracket assembly for a Victor VE8-12X that I just got. This one is totally and utterly wrecked. Anyone know who's selling repros? Ron Sitko? JAS? Anyone have current contact info for a dealer who would have some? Also, has anyone rebuilt one of these electric platter motors? This one works great, but it has a really loud mechanical 60Hz hum. I want to replace any components in the circuit that I can, and also do a full cleaning and lube job, but I would really like to know what I'm getting into first
Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket
Thanks, LeRoy! This was something I wouldn't have ever thought of -- that I might find a small motor guy locally. I tend to think of phono stuff as so specialized that no one much knows anything about it but our community, but the truth is that it's just made of parts, some of which could be used for any number of things! Best, Robert From: Phono-L on behalf of Leroy Barco via Phono-L Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 1:50 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Leroy Barco Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket I once had an electric credenza with a bad hum in the motor. I found a small motor guy who diagnosed that it had “dried out “. He had a solution he swabbed on several times that permeated the windings and fixed the hum. I’m like Sgt. Schultz on the details. “I know nothing!” LeRoy On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 12:25 PM Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: The Victor book gives some tips on reducing hum, such as checking the plate tightness, and adding felt between cabinet and motorboard. There are no circuit components other than switches.Have you checked with George Vollema for the tone arm bracket? I understand that Wyatt Marcus is doing really good Orth reproducer rebuilds. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org>] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 9:03 PM To: Phono L Cc: Robert Wright Subject: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket Hey everyone, hope all is well with you folks! I need a whole new tonearm mounting bracket assembly for a Victor VE8-12X that I just got. This one is totally and utterly wrecked. Anyone know who's selling repros? Ron Sitko? JAS? Anyone have current contact info for a dealer who would have some? Also, has anyone rebuilt one of these electric platter motors? This one works great, but it has a really loud mechanical 60Hz hum. I want to replace any components in the circuit that I can, and also do a full cleaning and lube job, but I would really like to know what I'm getting into first. And lastly, anyone have Walt's current info in case I want to have him rebuild this reproducer? Thanks a million! Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket
Thank you, Mike! Hahaha, my phone's speech-to-text function butchers what I tell it so frequently that I read right through your 'mess' no problem. So if I stick popsicle sticks between the outer coil windings and the core, will any voltage be lost/wasted from anything being aligned differently than originally manufactured, or does that not make any real difference in this situation? I did try the plug in both polarities -- no change in hum volume. It has worked on plenty of 60s and 70s portable phonos I've had, though. Best, Robert From: Phono-L on behalf of Mike Stitt via Phono-L Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 10:08 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Cc: Mike Stitt Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket Man my last email was a mess. Popsicle sticks can be used as shims to "tighten" up the coils. They tend to shrink. Glyptal is a red slushing type of paint that insulates and drys hard. It is common for use in re-insulating coils. The spray type isn't nearly as good as the brush on type. It shouldn't make a difference but you might try turning the plug around. If that should elimate the hum, test for voltage between the motor and a known ground. Before polarized plugs touching say a radio chassis and a water pipe would zap you, 115 volts. Mike Damn tablets! On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:30 PM Mike Stitt mailto:smst...@gmail.com> wrote: Loose coils can cause a hum type of sound. More than likely the swab used was glyptal. If the coila are lose use popcycle sticks. Mike On Mon, Nov 19, 2018, 5:21 PM Leroy Barco via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org> wrote: I once had an electric credenza with a bad hum in the motor. I found a small motor guy who diagnosed that it had “dried out “. He had a solution he swabbed on several times that permeated the windings and fixed the hum. I’m like Sgt. Schultz on the details. “I know nothing!” LeRoy On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 12:25 PM Ron L'Herault via Phono-L mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> wrote: The Victor book gives some tips on reducing hum, such as checking the plate tightness, and adding felt between cabinet and motorboard. There are no circuit components other than switches.Have you checked with George Vollema for the tone arm bracket? I understand that Wyatt Marcus is doing really good Orth reproducer rebuilds. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org>] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 9:03 PM To: Phono L Cc: Robert Wright Subject: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket Hey everyone, hope all is well with you folks! I need a whole new tonearm mounting bracket assembly for a Victor VE8-12X that I just got. This one is totally and utterly wrecked. Anyone know who's selling repros? Ron Sitko? JAS? Anyone have current contact info for a dealer who would have some? Also, has anyone rebuilt one of these electric platter motors? This one works great, but it has a really loud mechanical 60Hz hum. I want to replace any components in the circuit that I can, and also do a full cleaning and lube job, but I would really like to know what I'm getting into first. And lastly, anyone have Walt's current info in case I want to have him rebuild this reproducer? Thanks a million! Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org> ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket
Thank you, Ron! I'll check with George right now if I can find his current contact info. Is there anything more to accessing the motor than simply removing the back, unpugging the first AC junction, removing the platter, unscrewing the plinth/base board screws and lifting the thing straight up out of the cabinet? Are there any resources regarding this operation online that I could peruse? Best as always, Robert From: Phono-L on behalf of Ron L'Herault via Phono-L Sent: Monday, November 19, 2018 1:24 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Cc: Ron L'Herault Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket The Victor book gives some tips on reducing hum, such as checking the plate tightness, and adding felt between cabinet and motorboard. There are no circuit components other than switches.Have you checked with George Vollema for the tone arm bracket? I understand that Wyatt Marcus is doing really good Orth reproducer rebuilds. Ron L From: Phono-L [mailto:phono-l-boun...@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wright via Phono-L Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2018 9:03 PM To: Phono L Cc: Robert Wright Subject: [Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket Hey everyone, hope all is well with you folks! I need a whole new tonearm mounting bracket assembly for a Victor VE8-12X that I just got. This one is totally and utterly wrecked. Anyone know who's selling repros? Ron Sitko? JAS? Anyone have current contact info for a dealer who would have some? Also, has anyone rebuilt one of these electric platter motors? This one works great, but it has a really loud mechanical 60Hz hum. I want to replace any components in the circuit that I can, and also do a full cleaning and lube job, but I would really like to know what I'm getting into first. And lastly, anyone have Walt's current info in case I want to have him rebuild this reproducer? Thanks a million! Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
[Phono-L] Victor VE8-12X tonearm mounting bracket
Hey everyone, hope all is well with you folks! I need a whole new tonearm mounting bracket assembly for a Victor VE8-12X that I just got. This one is totally and utterly wrecked. Anyone know who's selling repros? Ron Sitko? JAS? Anyone have current contact info for a dealer who would have some? Also, has anyone rebuilt one of these electric platter motors? This one works great, but it has a really loud mechanical 60Hz hum. I want to replace any components in the circuit that I can, and also do a full cleaning and lube job, but I would really like to know what I'm getting into first. And lastly, anyone have Walt's current info in case I want to have him rebuild this reproducer? Thanks a million! Robert ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
