Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
You should be using ZEND_EXTENSION_API_NO, it's an integer. Zeev At 23:32 8/5/2001, Dan Libby wrote: ok, so ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE is crazy talk. the preprocessor doesn't like floats either. But something like ZEND_VERSION_MAJOR 4, ZEND_VERSION_MINOR 6 would satisfy it. -danda Dan Libby wrote: This change also broke my extension. I'd like to have the extension be buildable with all of 4.x without user intervention, so I'm trying to figure out some way to handle the change via the pre-processor. I thought that ZEND_VERSION, defined in zend.h, might do the trick. Unfortunately, it is defined as a string, thus the C preprocessor won't perform any comparisons against it. Perhaps in 4.0.6+ there could also be a ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE, eg: #define ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE 4.06 Does anyone have any clever solutions to this problem that I could use today? thx. -- Dan Libby [EMAIL PROTECTED], author of xmlrpc-epi check out xmlrpc-epi -- a C library for xmlrpc with a fast PHP extension. http://xmlrpc-epi.sourceforge.net and learn about xmlrpc, enabling remote procedure calls over the net. http://www.xmlrpc.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
DL be buildable with all of 4.x without user intervention, so I'm trying DL to figure out some way to handle the change via the pre-processor. Use ZEND_EXTENSION_API_NO, it changes every time API changes so that extensions may break. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Products Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.zend.com/ +972-3-6139665 ext.115 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
This change also broke my extension. I'd like to have the extension be buildable with all of 4.x without user intervention, so I'm trying to figure out some way to handle the change via the pre-processor. I thought that ZEND_VERSION, defined in zend.h, might do the trick. Unfortunately, it is defined as a string, thus the C preprocessor won't perform any comparisons against it. Perhaps in 4.0.6+ there could also be a ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE, eg: #define ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE 4.06 Does anyone have any clever solutions to this problem that I could use today? thx. -danda It's in everyone's interest to keep the API intact. The Zend API is now fairly stable (I don't expect compatibility breaking changes in the 4.0 line); Judging from the experience of PHP 3.0, there too, the API stabilized around x.0.5. Zeev At 18:29 4/5/2001, Brian Foddy wrote: A small point I'd like to raise here. I noticed 4.0.5 made a change to the arguments of zend_hash_get_current_key by adding a dupe argument to the define and underlying function. This of course broke any external custom modules that are not changed appropriately. In this case the change was very simple, but it raises a good question... Are there some guidelines independent external modules can follow to remain more compatible between releases? I'm not questioning the right or need for underlying Zend API changes, obviously when such changes are made all functions inside the PHP collection are change accordingly. But are there suggestions to minimize these in the future and get better notified when they do occur? Thanks, Brian -- Dan Libby [EMAIL PROTECTED], author of xmlrpc-epi check out xmlrpc-epi -- a C library for xmlrpc with a fast PHP extension. http://xmlrpc-epi.sourceforge.net and learn about xmlrpc, enabling remote procedure calls over the net. http://www.xmlrpc.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
ok, so ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE is crazy talk. the preprocessor doesn't like floats either. But something like ZEND_VERSION_MAJOR 4, ZEND_VERSION_MINOR 6 would satisfy it. -danda Dan Libby wrote: This change also broke my extension. I'd like to have the extension be buildable with all of 4.x without user intervention, so I'm trying to figure out some way to handle the change via the pre-processor. I thought that ZEND_VERSION, defined in zend.h, might do the trick. Unfortunately, it is defined as a string, thus the C preprocessor won't perform any comparisons against it. Perhaps in 4.0.6+ there could also be a ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE, eg: #define ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE 4.06 Does anyone have any clever solutions to this problem that I could use today? thx. -- Dan Libby [EMAIL PROTECTED], author of xmlrpc-epi check out xmlrpc-epi -- a C library for xmlrpc with a fast PHP extension. http://xmlrpc-epi.sourceforge.net and learn about xmlrpc, enabling remote procedure calls over the net. http://www.xmlrpc.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
There is a ZEND_MODULE_API_NO Andi At 01:32 PM 5/8/2001 -0700, Dan Libby wrote: ok, so ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE is crazy talk. the preprocessor doesn't like floats either. But something like ZEND_VERSION_MAJOR 4, ZEND_VERSION_MINOR 6 would satisfy it. -danda Dan Libby wrote: This change also broke my extension. I'd like to have the extension be buildable with all of 4.x without user intervention, so I'm trying to figure out some way to handle the change via the pre-processor. I thought that ZEND_VERSION, defined in zend.h, might do the trick. Unfortunately, it is defined as a string, thus the C preprocessor won't perform any comparisons against it. Perhaps in 4.0.6+ there could also be a ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE, eg: #define ZEND_VERSION_DOUBLE 4.06 Does anyone have any clever solutions to this problem that I could use today? thx. -- Dan Libby [EMAIL PROTECTED], author of xmlrpc-epi check out xmlrpc-epi -- a C library for xmlrpc with a fast PHP extension. http://xmlrpc-epi.sourceforge.net and learn about xmlrpc, enabling remote procedure calls over the net. http://www.xmlrpc.com -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
[Björn Schotte [EMAIL PROTECTED]] * Zeev Suraski wrote: There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. I don't understand why people should work in their spare-time on a tool which is published under the Zend Licence (which is similar to QPL). As we know of QPL, all developer's seem to be equal, but some seem to be more equal. As you know from Daniel Grossmann, I'm not the only one who has this opinion. Although I would not use the same tone, I completely understand why some people feel this way. Since the Zend engine is not pure open-source, IMHO Zend Ltd. have a bigger obligation to the PHP community to document all of the API than if Zend carried, say, a BSD license (because then it'd be more natural for the community to chip in). - Stig -- Stig Sæther Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fast Search Transfer ASA, Trondheim, Norway -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
[Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED]] At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Hey, are the sources for this manual available somewhere? CVS maybe? - Stig -- Stig Sæther Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fast Search Transfer ASA, Trondheim, Norway -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
At 11:41 6/5/2001, Stig Sæther Bakken wrote: You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Hey, are the sources for this manual available somewhere? CVS maybe? Yep, sure thing; cvs.zend.com, co ZendAPI; Released under OPL, and written in the same formats everyone in here's used to work with :) Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Hey, are the sources for this manual available somewhere? CVS maybe? Yep, sure thing; cvs.zend.com, co ZendAPI; Released under OPL, and written in the same formats everyone in here's used to work with :) At the moment its all one big XML file, would anyone object to me splitting it up into more manageable chunks like we do with phpdoc etc? - James -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
At 14:14 6/5/2001, James Moore wrote: You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Hey, are the sources for this manual available somewhere? CVS maybe? Yep, sure thing; cvs.zend.com, co ZendAPI; Released under OPL, and written in the same formats everyone in here's used to work with :) At the moment its all one big XML file, would anyone object to me splitting it up into more manageable chunks like we do with phpdoc etc? Nope - go ahead! Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
On Sun, 6 May 2001, James Moore wrote: You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Hey, are the sources for this manual available somewhere? CVS maybe? Yep, sure thing; cvs.zend.com, co ZendAPI; Released under OPL, and written in the same formats everyone in here's used to work with :) At the moment its all one big XML file, would anyone object to me splitting it up into more manageable chunks like we do with phpdoc etc? PLEASE DO! (And don't forget to subscribe to the engine-api-doc mailing list). We need discussed cleaning up the xml (yes, I have nerve, don't at all feel obligated ;), to conform to phpdoc style a while ago, but no one ever found the patience... ;) -Sterling - James -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
I feel like a TFI :( I apologize for my ignorance. However, with the time I do have to follow the dev list, it is not apparent to me the structure being imposed on the underlying system. - Original Message - From: Sean R. Bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Billy Rose' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:26 PM Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes Billy: Meet the QA team :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Billy Rose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes It is obvious that this project has a tremendous amount of effort from many people. Would it make sense to have someone, or a small group of people, whose task is to handle all of the release / testing issues? They would be handed over a release candidate from the development group to test and collect reports on. They then verify and classify all bugs and send reports back to the development team on a pre-determined time schedule, i.e. every 4 hours or such. As the test person / group collects reports, the development team works on new features / already known issues. Once new issues are reported, they are fixed and marked off the report list. After the release candidate is declared stable, it is put out there. This keeps the burden of trying to maintain a bug list, and deal with release issues off of the main pipeline of the development team. What do you think? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Billy Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes You can always suggest... :) At 02:14 5/5/2001, Billy Rose wrote: The company I work for has a very quick bug turn over rate. I was wondering if I may make a few suggestions concerning release issues / bugtracking? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Brian Foddy wrote: ... and get better notified when they do occur? they have occured on every release but 4.0.3 now so you should expect new releases to *not* be binary compatible to old extensions for now IMHO -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
It's in everyone's interest to keep the API intact. The Zend API is now fairly stable (I don't expect compatibility breaking changes in the 4.0 line); Judging from the experience of PHP 3.0, there too, the API stabilized around x.0.5. Zeev At 18:29 4/5/2001, Brian Foddy wrote: A small point I'd like to raise here. I noticed 4.0.5 made a change to the arguments of zend_hash_get_current_key by adding a dupe argument to the define and underlying function. This of course broke any external custom modules that are not changed appropriately. In this case the change was very simple, but it raises a good question... Are there some guidelines independent external modules can follow to remain more compatible between releases? I'm not questioning the right or need for underlying Zend API changes, obviously when such changes are made all functions inside the PHP collection are change accordingly. But are there suggestions to minimize these in the future and get better notified when they do occur? Thanks, Brian -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
On Fri, 4 May 2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: Zeev Suraski wrote: It's in everyone's interest to keep the API intact. The Zend API is now fairly stable (I don't expect compatibility breaking changes in the 4.0 line); Judging from the experience of PHP 3.0, there too, the API stabilized around x.0.5. so we can now hope for a reference documentation now? ;) Sure, go ahead and write some! ;) -Sterling -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Sterling Hughes wrote: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: so we can now hope for a reference documentation now? ;) Sure, go ahead and write some! ;) AFAIR someone told someone else not to do so (a long time ago) as this was already taken care of ;) -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Hope is always a good thing :) There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. Zeev At 19:30 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: Zeev Suraski wrote: It's in everyone's interest to keep the API intact. The Zend API is now fairly stable (I don't expect compatibility breaking changes in the 4.0 line); Judging from the experience of PHP 3.0, there too, the API stabilized around x.0.5. so we can now hope for a reference documentation now? ;) -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
* Zeev Suraski wrote: There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. I don't understand why people should work in their spare-time on a tool which is published under the Zend Licence (which is similar to QPL). As we know of QPL, all developer's seem to be equal, but some seem to be more equal. As you know from Daniel Grossmann, I'm not the only one who has this opinion. -- Björn Schotte [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://rent-a-phpwizard.de/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] PHP Schulungen, Softwareentwicklung, Coaching -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. I don't understand why people should work in their spare-time on a tool which is published under the Zend Licence (which is similar to QPL). As we know of QPL, all developer's seem to be equal, but some seem to be more equal. As you know from Daniel Grossmann, I'm not the only one who has this opinion. And the point of this other than trying to start a flame war was Bjorn? - James -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
* James Moore wrote: And the point of this other than trying to start a flame war was Bjorn? I'm not starting a flame war. Björn. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
* James Moore wrote: And the point of this other than trying to start a flame war was Bjorn? I'm not starting a flame war. I just didnt understand what your comments possibly had to do with the Zend API docs. AFIAK they arnt QPL'd (and if they are it doesnt really matter although they should be under a publication license).. - James -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Zeev Suraski wrote: Hope is always a good thing :) There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. besides all political/philosophical issues (licensing and such ...) i am talking about a *reference* documentation, not a manual or howto neither the book chapter you defined to be the official documentation nor the readme files describe the complete api e.g. it's very hard to get the clue what all the *FETCH macros are good for from the so called official documentation thats why i talk about a *reference* documentation that explains the API funktion by function in manpage style i've been into all this for more than a year now and i still have lots of open questions about a lot of things even after doing a *lot* of Read the source, Luke and this is, well, lets say 'suboptimal' for stuff as complex (and as stuffed with preprocessor magic) like the Zend Engine it is usually a very bad idea to have people write the docs for it that didn't build it thats like playing Stille Post (afaik this game is called telephone in the US) or like babelfish translating a text from one language to another and back: very funny results but not very helpfull don't get me wrong, the Engine is a very impressive piece of work (although i do not really like the license, but i can live with it) but with reference documentation that deserves this name it would still be far better. PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
At 20:20 4/5/2001, Björn Schotte wrote: * Zeev Suraski wrote: There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. I don't understand why people should work in their spare-time on a tool which is published under the Zend Licence (which is similar to QPL). As we know of QPL, all developer's seem to be equal, but some seem to be more equal. You don't have to; It just so happens that I don't have to either. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Well you should, damnit! ;-) Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... At 20:20 4/5/2001, Björn Schotte wrote: * Zeev Suraski wrote: There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. I don't understand why people should work in their spare-time on a tool which is published under the Zend Licence (which is similar to QPL). As we know of QPL, all developer's seem to be equal, but some seem to be more equal. You don't have to; It just so happens that I don't have to either. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
On Fri, 4 May 2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: Zeev Suraski wrote: Hope is always a good thing :) There's a good starting point already, people are more than welcome to extend it. besides all political/philosophical issues (licensing and such ...) i am talking about a *reference* documentation, not a manual or howto I'll agree this is needed (however, I no longer have an impetus to create it :) neither the book chapter you defined to be the official documentation nor the readme files describe the complete api e.g. it's very hard to get the clue what all the *FETCH macros are good for from the so called official documentation do you still need an explanation? the source makes it pretty clear to me... thats why i talk about a *reference* documentation that explains the API funktion by function in manpage style Well maybe not manpage style. I think there should be some Javadoc-like comments in the Zend source, the same way the apache portable runtime is documented or state threads library is (yeah, yeah, I know, don't end sentences with prepositions :). i've been into all this for more than a year now and i still have lots of open questions about a lot of things even after doing a *lot* of Read the source, Luke and this is, well, lets say 'suboptimal' Well what are the questions, you can always ask them on the list in the absence of some API documentation. for stuff as complex (and as stuffed with preprocessor magic) like the Zend Engine it is usually a very bad idea to have people write the docs for it that didn't build it I don't know about that. Most of the zend engine is pretty clear to me, especially so the API portions (ok, zend_alloc.c is a bit gnarly, but the rest of the engine is pretty clear :) thats like playing Stille Post (afaik this game is called telephone in the US) or like babelfish translating a text from one language to another and back: very funny results but not very helpfull Perhaps describing the internals of the engine would be like that, but the common api is pretty easy to use and describe. I might not have said this a year ago, but.. .Sterling -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
On Fri, 04 May 2001, Sterling Hughes wrote: Well maybe not manpage style. I think there should be some Javadoc-like comments in the Zend source, the same way the apache portable runtime is documented or state threads library is (yeah, yeah, I know, don't end sentences with prepositions :). Actually manpage style Zend API docs would be cool. Then in vim you just hit K when the cursor is over a function and it gives you manpage for it. :) -Andrei Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. --Pablo Picasso -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
On 2001-05-04 19:59:23, Andrei Zmievski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 04 May 2001, Sterling Hughes wrote: Well maybe not manpage style. I think there should be some Javadoc-like comments in the Zend source, the same way the apache portable runtime is I remember the Amiga coding convention for autodocs, where you essentially embedded you man page (less rich formatting) in your code, much like we have javadoc today Actually manpage style Zend API docs would be cool. Then in vim you just hit K when the cursor is over a function and it gives you manpage for it. :) offtopic Cool - I didn't know that about vim. Manpages are well under-rated. I really miss being able to call up the docs I need instantly, especially with large projects (like OSF/DCE/ and Anything on windows), and especially with GNU info.. /offtopic Isn't there a docbook - man stylesheet? Since we have most docs as docbook, it would make sense to have the Zend API documented in that way, although I can see it being a pain if the zend guys tweak a function and then have to go to the trouble of finding the relevant docbook page, etc. etc. Perhaps we could embed the docs as docbook fragments in the source? (although that might be a bit heavy). Just my GBP 0.02 (2 pence). --Wez. -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Sterling Hughes wrote: neither the book chapter you defined to be the official documentation nor the readme files describe the complete api e.g. it's very hard to get the clue what all the *FETCH macros are good for from the so called official documentation do you still need an explanation? the source makes it pretty clear to me... no, its clear to me to, although it took some time of browsing around on lxr.php.net and bonsai.php.net to get the message but the fetch macros are rather essential IMHO and AFAIR they were mentioned only once in a subsentence (or even in brackets) without further description thats why i talk about a *reference* documentation that explains the API funktion by function in manpage style Well maybe not manpage style. I think there should be some Javadoc-like comments in the Zend source, the same way the apache portable runtime is documented or state threads library is (yeah, yeah, I know, don't end sentences with prepositions :). any reference style will do as long as one can find the answer to 'wtf does zend_xxx() do?' quickly, something embeded in the source the way e.g. javadoc does it would sure be nice i've been into all this for more than a year now and i still have lots of open questions about a lot of things even after doing a *lot* of Read the source, Luke and this is, well, lets say 'suboptimal' Well what are the questions, you can always ask them on the list in the absence of some API documentation. no questions i need answers for (yet), just a lot of loose ends for stuff as complex (and as stuffed with preprocessor magic) like the Zend Engine it is usually a very bad idea to have people write the docs for it that didn't build it I don't know about that. Most of the zend engine is pretty clear to me, especially so the API portions (ok, zend_alloc.c is a bit gnarly, but the rest of the engine is pretty clear :) it may be pretty clear to you, it is clear enough for me now, but the usual c coder wanting to code an extensions most likely doesn't like the idea of looking for clues on lxr.php.net and bonsai.php.net as soon as he has reached a point where the documentation doesn't help him anymore thats like playing Stille Post (afaik this game is called telephone in the US) or like babelfish translating a text from one language to another and back: very funny results but not very helpfull Perhaps describing the internals of the engine would be like that, but the common api is pretty easy to use and describe. I might not have said this a year ago, but.. imagine someone with an intermediate knowledge of C wanting to code an extension. his knowledge might be good enough to integrate his stuff, but with the current state of the documentation he will most likely not do it as it would involve a lot of extra source reading and figuring things out too a lot of people, especially those that do not use php themselves, will give up on this or will produce ugly code and this does not only hurt php, it especially hurts Zend IMHO how should one put trust in the products or especially in the support programm of a company that is not able or willing to provide proper docs for its central product that all the other ones are built upon? PS: maybe i've been bitten by bad API documentation to much in the last few weeks (non-php products in this case) -- Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.six.de +49-711-99091-77 -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
You can always suggest... :) At 02:14 5/5/2001, Billy Rose wrote: The company I work for has a very quick bug turn over rate. I was wondering if I may make a few suggestions concerning release issues / bugtracking? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
It is obvious that this project has a tremendous amount of effort from many people. Would it make sense to have someone, or a small group of people, whose task is to handle all of the release / testing issues? They would be handed over a release candidate from the development group to test and collect reports on. They then verify and classify all bugs and send reports back to the development team on a pre-determined time schedule, i.e. every 4 hours or such. As the test person / group collects reports, the development team works on new features / already known issues. Once new issues are reported, they are fixed and marked off the report list. After the release candidate is declared stable, it is put out there. This keeps the burden of trying to maintain a bug list, and deal with release issues off of the main pipeline of the development team. What do you think? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Billy Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes You can always suggest... :) At 02:14 5/5/2001, Billy Rose wrote: The company I work for has a very quick bug turn over rate. I was wondering if I may make a few suggestions concerning release issues / bugtracking? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Billy: Meet the QA team :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Billy Rose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 7:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes It is obvious that this project has a tremendous amount of effort from many people. Would it make sense to have someone, or a small group of people, whose task is to handle all of the release / testing issues? They would be handed over a release candidate from the development group to test and collect reports on. They then verify and classify all bugs and send reports back to the development team on a pre-determined time schedule, i.e. every 4 hours or such. As the test person / group collects reports, the development team works on new features / already known issues. Once new issues are reported, they are fixed and marked off the report list. After the release candidate is declared stable, it is put out there. This keeps the burden of trying to maintain a bug list, and deal with release issues off of the main pipeline of the development team. What do you think? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Billy Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes You can always suggest... :) At 02:14 5/5/2001, Billy Rose wrote: The company I work for has a very quick bug turn over rate. I was wondering if I may make a few suggestions concerning release issues / bugtracking? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes
Isn't that how it already works? bug list doesn't seem too much of a burden for me:) I just fix a bug at a time at my own leisurly pace. Although it would be nice to know what's more critical to fix and what's not. Otherwise I pick my own random bugs... Vlad Billy Rose wrote: It is obvious that this project has a tremendous amount of effort from many people. Would it make sense to have someone, or a small group of people, whose task is to handle all of the release / testing issues? They would be handed over a release candidate from the development group to test and collect reports on. They then verify and classify all bugs and send reports back to the development team on a pre-determined time schedule, i.e. every 4 hours or such. As the test person / group collects reports, the development team works on new features / already known issues. Once new issues are reported, they are fixed and marked off the report list. After the release candidate is declared stable, it is put out there. This keeps the burden of trying to maintain a bug list, and deal with release issues off of the main pipeline of the development team. What do you think? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Billy Rose [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes You can always suggest... :) At 02:14 5/5/2001, Billy Rose wrote: The company I work for has a very quick bug turn over rate. I was wondering if I may make a few suggestions concerning release issues / bugtracking? - Original Message - From: Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Hartmut Holzgraefe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zend API changes At 21:05 4/5/2001, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote: PS: about the welcome thing above ... - you should know that i have put a lot of work into the manual (both english and german) and the function tables Hartmut, I wasn't trying to understate your work on the manual; I told you personally that the function reference mechanism that you build was very impressive and useful. I wasn't being sarcastic when I invited you (and anyone else) to help document the Zend API. I know I won't be getting around to doing it in the near future, so if nobody else does it, it'll simply remain undone. - afair there was someone who started to write a 'extension building manual' or something about a year ago and it was you , Zeev, who told him that this was useless effort as this was already beeing taken care off (without pointing him to this project or inviting him to join it) correct me if i'm wrong as i do not have found this posting in my archives yet You're not wrong; It's been done and published (http://www.zend.com/apidoc/), and is the base for additional work that I invited people to improve on. Zeev -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Zeev Suraski [EMAIL PROTECTED] CTO co-founder, Zend Technologies Ltd. http://www.zend.com/ -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP Development Mailing List http://www.php.net/ To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
