Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
Jan G.B. wrote: 2010/3/18 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com: Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is inflammatory. In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice. What I said was: *persons ranting about short open tags* *are just like some religious people * I don't care what people do in their code. I do not like released code with short tags, it has caused me problems when trying to run php webapps that use short tags, I have to go through the code and change them. So what people do with their private code, I could care less about. But if releasing php code for public consumption, I guess I'm a preacher asking people to get religion, because short tags do not belong in projects that are released to the public. Just like addslashes and magic quotes and most html entities should not be used in php code released for public consumption. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On 19 March 2010 10:17, Michael A. Peters mpet...@mac.com wrote: I don't care what people do in their code. I do not like released code with short tags, it has caused me problems when trying to run php webapps that use short tags, I have to go through the code and change them. So what people do with their private code, I could care less about. But if releasing php code for public consumption, I guess I'm a preacher asking people to get religion, because short tags do not belong in projects that are released to the public. Just like addslashes and magic quotes and most html entities should not be used in php code released for public consumption. What he said. Now, could we get over this discussion? It's not exactly going anywhere. -- hype WWW: http://plphp.dk / http://plind.dk LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/plind Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fake51 BeWelcome: Fake51 Couchsurfing: Fake51 /hype -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On 17/03/10 18:59, Tommy Pham wrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Rene Veermanrene7...@gmail.com wrote: hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with?= through the str_replace(), than it is to get all the?= writers to comply with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-) On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote: That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't. Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause problems. My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most traveled. Cheers, ted -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can be used in PHP. Two of those,?php ? andscript language=php /script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not recommended. But the implication there is that they are *only* non-portable *because* they can be switched off - there's no other strong reason. Before anyone jumps in with XML / XHTML arguments again, those issues are fairly rare and very easily worked around. My projects tend to use XHTML doctype because it makes IE7/8 behave more predictably without a ?xml ? block, and I always use short tags for ?= because the alternative is so ugly! In the rare cases where I generate XML from a PHP script, there are workarounds for the ? problem. I do tend to use ?php for blocks of code - so I guess I'm in the middle camp here. I also write code to be hosted on dedicated systems that I have full control over, so php.ini settings are always in my control (so far...) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
2010/3/18 Pete Ford p...@justcroft.com: On 17/03/10 18:59, Tommy Pham wrote: On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Rene Veermanrene7...@gmail.com wrote: hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with?= through the str_replace(), than it is to get all the?= writers to comply with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-) On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, teddtedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote: That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't. Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause problems. My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most traveled. Cheers, ted -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can be used in PHP. Two of those,?php ? andscript language=php /script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not recommended. But the implication there is that they are *only* non-portable *because* they can be switched off - there's no other strong reason. Before anyone jumps in with XML / XHTML arguments again, those issues are fairly rare and very easily worked around. My projects tend to use XHTML doctype because it makes IE7/8 behave more predictably without a ?xml ? block, and I always use short tags for ?= because the alternative is so ugly! In the rare cases where I generate XML from a PHP script, there are workarounds for the ? problem. I do tend to use ?php for blocks of code - so I guess I'm in the middle camp here. I also write code to be hosted on dedicated systems that I have full control over, so php.ini settings are always in my control (so far...) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I agree. And I believe the persons ranting about short open tags are just like some religious people. It's almost like a war between Linux/Windows/Mac, IE/FF or ASP/PHP. Also, people love to recommend things that others recommended before. It mustn't make a big sense. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
At 9:34 AM + 3/18/10, Pete Ford wrote: I do tend to use ?php for blocks of code - so I guess I'm in the middle camp here. Whoa, that's even worse -- make a choice and stick with it -- IMO. I'm all for consistency and have often found myself redoing dozens of scripts because I changed something -- not because the change worked and the other didn't, but rather to maintain consistency throughout the project. Granted, different reasons promote different programming styles. While what I do is to solve the problem at hand for the client, it also has to pass through my vision of code elegance. I program for myself first and solve the client's problems second. I also realize that I have the privilege of doing so because my needs are few. I probably wouldn't do well in a production oriented environment. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
At 4:11 PM +0100 3/18/10, Jan G.B. wrote: I agree. And I believe the persons ranting about short open tags are just like some religious people. It's almost like a war between Linux/Windows/Mac, IE/FF or ASP/PHP. Also, people love to recommend things that others recommended before. It mustn't make a big sense. Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is inflammatory. In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice. While I believe and have stated my reasons, which are more than faith, you are free to do whatever you want. I don't consider any of this discussion (on either side of the argument) as religious' or ranting -- it's simply a discussion. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
2010/3/18 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com: Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is inflammatory. In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice. What I said was: *persons ranting about short open tags* *are just like some religious people * I did not address you. On the other hand you're telling people here that their approach is worse and yours is great. IMHO this isn't a discussion but bashing without any reasoning. You simply say that XML is confused by a short open tag, but actually PHP is not embedded in XML. I quote you: that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code. I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the programmer still doesn't get it. You make it very clear that you believe in your superior coding style.
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 17:32 +0100, Jan G.B. wrote: 2010/3/18 tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com: Calling it ranting or religious unjustly demeans the discussion and is inflammatory. In all of this, I've simply said it's your choice. What I said was: *persons ranting about short open tags* *are just like some religious people * I did not address you. On the other hand you're telling people here that their approach is worse and yours is great. IMHO this isn't a discussion but bashing without any reasoning. You simply say that XML is confused by a short open tag, but actually PHP is not embedded in XML. I quote you: that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code. I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the programmer still doesn't get it. You make it very clear that you believe in your superior coding style. Technically, PHP isn't embedded in any language; it's the other way around. XML and PHP are used together more often than you might realise. Consider Ajax and RSS, which are becoming more and more popular. Also, there are sites out there that are almost entirely XML-based; just have a look at the World of Warcraft (yes I play it!) website. For me, I originally learnt PHP using the ?php tags. I only found out about short tags when I first ran into the problem with them on shared hosting that had them turned off. To me, it didn't make much sense in using something that wasn't portable. For the same reason, I try to avoid using obscure PHP modules when I know a system will end up on a closed hosting platform like this. I hear the arguments that short tags make code easier to read and write, but from experience, a good syntax highlighter does the trick for the former, and I don't feel that typing a few extra characters is really delaying me by much. I have seen someone argue about screen readers having problems by reading out the ?php each time, and I don't know how that would be dealt with in reality. Are there PHP-aware screen readers about, or at least screen readers that might be told to ignore particular patterns of content? Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
2010/3/18 Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk Technically, PHP isn't embedded in any language; it's the other way around. XML and PHP are used together more often than you might realise. Consider Ajax and RSS, which are becoming more and more popular. Also, there are sites out there that are almost entirely XML-based; just have a look at the World of Warcraft (yes I play it!) website. Sure - XML is often used and served. But in general, a web server only parses PHP-Files (ie. .+\.php\d?) unless you configure your server to parse any file or .xml files. So the XML ? is not a problem at all for the interpreter. For me, I originally learnt PHP using the ?php tags. I only found out about short tags when I first ran into the problem with them on shared hosting that had them turned off. To me, it didn't make much sense in using something that wasn't portable. For the same reason, I try to avoid using obscure PHP modules when I know a system will end up on a closed hosting platform like this. My opinion to this is that I seperate markup from code. I use a template system in my .tpl files and these will never get parsed. Inline PHP is not my choice. But when I'm about to update a project that is written with inline php, I appreciate the short tags for their ease of use. I also enjoy typing less. :-) Regards
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 17:57 +0100, Jan G.B. wrote: Sure - XML is often used and served. But in general, a web server only parses PHP-Files (ie. .+\.php\d?) unless you configure your server to parse any file or .xml files. So the XML ? is not a problem at all for the interpreter. I wasn't meaning that xml files would be parsed as PHP, but that PHP would be used to output XML. I'd rather have short tags turned off than remember each time that I have to keep breaking up the and ?php before I output it in-case the parser gets confused. Templating is great, but it's not for all projects. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Thu, 2010-03-18 at 18:09 +0100, Jan G.B. wrote: 2010/3/18 Ashley Sheridan a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk I'd rather have short tags turned off than remember each time that I have to keep breaking up the and ?php before I output it in-case the parser gets confused. You don't need to break anything up. It's perfectly valid and without problems: ?php echo '?xml version ?'; ? What about this: ?xml version=1.0 ?php That would break with short tags turned on. I often use this sort of code in my Ajax server stuff. I don't want to have to use PHP to echo out what would work on a normal setup. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote: That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't. Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause problems. My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most traveled. Cheers, ted -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with ?= through the str_replace(), than it is to get all the ?= writers to comply with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-) On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote: That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't. Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause problems. My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most traveled. Cheers, ted -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Rene Veerman rene7...@gmail.com wrote: hmm.. seems easier to me to push a filetree of .php's with ?= through the str_replace(), than it is to get all the ?= writers to comply with your wishes, which may not apply to their situation ;-) On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:14 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 8:55 PM -0400 3/16/10, Adam Richardson wrote: That said, I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with those who say I shouldn't. Exception or not, it's still your choice and using short tags can cause problems. My view, why create problems when there is a solution? Forcing the issue is a bit like I'm going to do it my way regardless! I've traveled that path too many times in my life. Sometimes it's easier to take the path most traveled. Cheers, ted -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can be used in PHP. Two of those, ?php ? and script language=php /script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not recommended. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
At 11:59 AM -0700 3/17/10, Tommy Pham wrote: http://www.php.net/manual/en/language.basic-syntax.phpmode.php There are four different pairs of opening and closing tags which can be used in PHP. Two of those, ?php ? and script language=php /script, are always available. The other two are short tags and ASP style tags, and can be turned on and off from the php.ini configuration file. As such, while some people find short tags and ASP style tags convenient, they are less portable, and generally not recommended. +1 Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
-Original Message- From: Bob McConnell [mailto:r...@cbord.com] Sent: 15 March 2010 18:13 From: Jochem Maas Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef: First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. that's a documentation error. No it's not. The short tags conflict with both XML and XHTML and therefore are being phased out. Jochem is right, Bob and Jorge are wrong. Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2 Cheers! Mike -- Mike Ford, Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation, Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS, LS1 3HE, United Kingdom Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk Tel: +44 113 812 4730 To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:16 +, Ford, Mike wrote: -Original Message- From: Bob McConnell [mailto:r...@cbord.com] Sent: 15 March 2010 18:13 From: Jochem Maas Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef: First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. that's a documentation error. No it's not. The short tags conflict with both XML and XHTML and therefore are being phased out. Jochem is right, Bob and Jorge are wrong. Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2 Cheers! Mike -- Mike Ford, Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation, Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS, LS1 3HE, United Kingdom Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk Tel: +44 113 812 4730 To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm That's not really proof of anything, it's just an archived email from this list... Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
-Original Message- From: Ashley Sheridan [mailto:a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk] Sent: 16 March 2010 11:16 On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:16 +, Ford, Mike wrote: Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2 That's not really proof of anything, it's just an archived email from this list... Well, firstly it's an archived email from the *internals* (i.e. PHP developers) list, not this one. And secondly it's from someone whom I trust to know what he's talking about. If I looked, I'm sure I could dig up several similarly definitive (but less recent) pronouncements from PHP names, including Rasmus himself. In fact: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=123969574312781w=2 Cheers! Mike -- Mike Ford, Electronic Information Developer, Libraries and Learning Innovation, Leeds Metropolitan University, C507, Civic Quarter Campus, Woodhouse Lane, LEEDS, LS1 3HE, United Kingdom Email: m.f...@leedsmet.ac.uk Tel: +44 113 812 4730 To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://disclaimer.leedsmet.ac.uk/email.htm
RE: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
From: Ford, Mike From: Ashley Sheridan On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 11:16 +, Ford, Mike wrote: Proof: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=126832992915664w=2 That's not really proof of anything, it's just an archived email from this list... Well, firstly it's an archived email from the *internals* (i.e. PHP developers) list, not this one. And secondly it's from someone whom I trust to know what he's talking about. If I looked, I'm sure I could dig up several similarly definitive (but less recent) pronouncements from PHP names, including Rasmus himself. In fact: http://marc.info/?l=php-internalsm=123969574312781w=2 Well, that's their prerogative, but I believe they are wrong. Short tags cause more problems than they will ever solve, and should be removed from the language ASAP. I would classify that as a design flaw. In the meantime, since we are upgrading our pages to XHTML, we are replacing the short tags wherever they occur. Bob McConnell -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote: Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef: First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. that's a documentation error. You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?= (stop being a lazy ass! :P): it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what it means), Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they must play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static. While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to others and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't accept the short term tag, then why use it? Using Standards like this help promote better communication between all languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate better or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code. I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the programmer still doesn't get it. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo , then deprecating ?= would be useful. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote: Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef: First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. that's a documentation error. You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?= (stop being a lazy ass! :P): it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what it means), Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they must play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static. While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to others and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't accept the short term tag, then why use it? Using Standards like this help promote better communication between all languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate better or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code. I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the programmer still doesn't get it. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 23:42 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote: maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo , then deprecating ?= would be useful. On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote: Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef: First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. that's a documentation error. You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?= (stop being a lazy ass! :P): it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what it means), Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they must play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static. While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to others and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't accept the short term tag, then why use it? Using Standards like this help promote better communication between all languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate better or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a demonstration to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best possible code. I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing tables and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the programmer still doesn't get it. Cheers, tedd -- --- http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php I think that would just add to an already confusing situation. Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Ashley Sheridan
a...@ashleysheridan.co.ukwrote:
On Tue, 2010-03-16 at 23:42 +0100, Rene Veerman wrote:
maybe adding a ?php= as equivalent to ?= and ?php echo ,
then deprecating ?= would be useful.
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:18 PM, tedd tedd.sperl...@gmail.com wrote:
At 5:54 PM + 3/15/10, Jochem Maas wrote:
Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?)
because
the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.
that's a documentation error.
You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the
shortcut
?=
(stop being a lazy ass! :P):
it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know
what
it means),
Yes, but like all web languages, they don't live in a vacuum -- they
must
play well with others to survive. Programming is dynamic not static.
While using ?= identifies what follows to you, it doesn't to
others
and therein lies the problem. If XML (and possibility others) don't
accept
the short term tag, then why use it?
Using Standards like this help promote better communication between
all
languages -- what's wrong with that? Simply put, either communicate
better
or don't -- that's your choice -- but your decision is also a
demonstration
to your client/employer/peers as to your desire to produce the best
possible code.
I look at code containing ?= the same way as I see html containing
tables
and embedded styling for presentation -- This must be old code OR the
programmer still doesn't get it.
Cheers,
tedd
--
---
http://sperling.com http://ancientstones.com http://earthstones.com
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I think that would just add to an already confusing situation.
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
I'll confess that I work on ASP.Net just as much as PHP (If you must throw
tomatoes, make sure their really ripe so they don't hurt as much ;) I
appreciate the different tags offered in ASP.Net, as they succinctly provide
some convenient capabilities (one version provides similar capabilites to
PHP's ?=$var_to_echo?.)
I believe that although they're removing the ASP version of tags (e.g., %
%) from PHP 6, they're keeping the short tag option debated in this thread,
and I hope they do.
To say that using short tags is bad form seems quite strong. Additionally,
saying that XML doesn't accept the syntax is also extreme. It's not that
XML doesn't accept the short tag. Actually, PHP's parser is confused by the
XML declaration. When you work with generating an XML document with PHP, it
only takes one line of code to accommodate PHP's parser. However, the vast
majority of the time I'm generating XHTML 1 (or now more and more XHTML 5),
and neither of these require the XML declaration for validation purposes.
Additionally, wanting to write less code to perform the same action isn't
necessarily an act of laziness. Am I lazy for loving the that I can use
simple message passing capabilities in Scala or transactional memory in
Clojure to perform tasks in parallel as opposed to the olden days of dealing
with threads in Java? When I can type less, maintain clarity, and perform
the same action, I consider it an act of beauty.
When you compare the code samples below, I find that I prefer the short tag
version or the last example when I'm reworking the XHTML, as there's less
code to sift through. There seems to be a trend in other templating
languages to shorten the amount of typing (e.g., Google Go uses
http://json-template.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/Introducing-JSON-Template.html),
and I hope PHP will continue to keep pace with the trend, too. That said,
I'm not taking exception with those who don't use the short tag, only with
those who say I shouldn't.
Adam
section
article
h2a href=?php echo $url; ??php echo $title; ?/a/h2
p
?php echo $description; ?
span?php echo $date; ?/span
/p
/article
article
h2a href=?= $url ??= $title ?/a/h2
p
?= $description ?
span?= $date ?/span
/p
/article
!--
This last example is just to show the scheme I use in my own web
framework, which is similar to JSON template
--
article
h2a href={url}{title}/a/h2
p
{description}
span{date}/span
/p
/article
/section
--
Nephtali: PHP web framework that functions beautifully
http://nephtaliproject.com
Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
Op 3/13/10 3:49 PM, Jorge Gomes schreef:
First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because
the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*.
that's a documentation error.
You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?=
(stop being a lazy ass! :P):
it's not lazy, it's succinct and much easier to read (once you know what it
means),
but ... if you require portable code and your liable to be running on shared
hosting where you don't control the ini settings you might consider not using
it.
it is often feasable to turn them on explicitly in your 'init' routine so that
your template/output code can use short tags:
?php ini_set('short_open_tag', true); ?
I can't recall that this is ever locked down on a server so that you can't
change it, although the default if quite often set to FALSE.
tr
td align=left?php echo $_SESSION['scripture_text']; ?/td
/tr
input type=text name=reservation_date value=?php echo
$_GET['rdate']; ? readonly=
remember that between tags, we have normal php code.
Rewards
how much?
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Re: [PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
First of all, i recommend the use of normal php tags (?php ... ?) because the short tags are atm marked as* **DEPRECATED*. You should also echo your values to the page, instead using the shortcut ?= (stop being a lazy ass! :P): tr td align=left?php echo $_SESSION['scripture_text']; ?/td /tr input type=text name=reservation_date value=?php echo $_GET['rdate']; ? readonly= remember that between tags, we have normal php code. Rewards ___ Jorge Gomes 2010/3/13 David Robley robl...@aapt.net.au Martine Osias wrote: An HTML/PHP code migrated to a different hosting platform seems to behave differently. The PHP statements within HTML fields or within tables does not execute PHP within table: tr td align=left?=laquo;.$_SESSION['scripture_text'].raquo;?/td /tr This PHP code doesn't print in the HTML page. PHP within form field: input type=text name=reservation_date value=?=$_GET['rdate'];? readonly= This PHP code shows on the page when it shouldn't. The same variable is an input and an output in this form: snip code Are there times when the ? statements in HTML code don't execute? Yes - when short_open_tag is disabled in the config. See http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.short-open-tag for more info. I'd suggest you move away from using short tags, if for no other reason than portability. Cheers -- David Robley A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking. Today is Boomtime, the 72nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP] Re: PHP in HTML code
Martine Osias wrote: An HTML/PHP code migrated to a different hosting platform seems to behave differently. The PHP statements within HTML fields or within tables does not execute PHP within table: tr td align=left?=laquo;.$_SESSION['scripture_text'].raquo;?/td /tr This PHP code doesn't print in the HTML page. PHP within form field: input type=text name=reservation_date value=?=$_GET['rdate'];? readonly= This PHP code shows on the page when it shouldn't. The same variable is an input and an output in this form: snip code Are there times when the ? statements in HTML code don't execute? Yes - when short_open_tag is disabled in the config. See http://www.php.net/manual/en/ini.core.php#ini.short-open-tag for more info. I'd suggest you move away from using short tags, if for no other reason than portability. Cheers -- David Robley A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking. Today is Boomtime, the 72nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
