RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
so now it's shifted from his attitude to your seeming inability to cope with words related to sexual intercourse? we all need to calm down and relax. -Original Message- From: Alexander Wagner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. You didn't even RTFM him. I found it to be more like RTM, the more gentle version (the one without words connected to sexual intercourse). Your answer was short, but not harsh. I thought so, anyway. regards Wagner -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
scott [gts] wrote: so now it's shifted from his attitude to your seeming inability to cope with words related to sexual intercourse? we all need to calm down and relax. Hey, all I said was that he did not RTFM, but RTM, the version without fucking. regards Wagner -- Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
What!!? I always thought it was the fine manual. Gosh, I'm so naive. Blushing in Nova Scotia - Miles At 04:39 PM 8/1/01 +0200, Alexander Wagner wrote: scott [gts] wrote: so now it's shifted from his attitude to your seeming inability to cope with words related to sexual intercourse? we all need to calm down and relax. Hey, all I said was that he did not RTFM, but RTM, the version without fucking. regards Wagner -- Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
It's not the first time and I've mentioned it before. I in fact just emailed all those off list from that thread. One reason why PHP has lured many in is it's ease of use and it's FRIENDLY user community. Sure some people come on here and ask simple questions, maybe ones that can be found in the manual but they are starting out and need a bit of a kick start. Lets remain friendly...it's why I'm still around :) Jeff www.hyrum.net www.xnull.com -Original Message- From: Steve Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:22 PM To: PHP List Subject: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, Steve Wright -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
im gonna stay neutral in this conversation even though i know B Van hates my guts! But hey, im a newbie and yes i do need a kick start, but he doesnt have to be such a moody git. -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com New address new site ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: Jeff Lewis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Steve Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED]; PHP List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk It's not the first time and I've mentioned it before. I in fact just emailed all those off list from that thread. One reason why PHP has lured many in is it's ease of use and it's FRIENDLY user community. Sure some people come on here and ask simple questions, maybe ones that can be found in the manual but they are starting out and need a bit of a kick start. Lets remain friendly...it's why I'm still around :) Jeff www.hyrum.net www.xnull.com -Original Message- From: Steve Wright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:22 PM To: PHP List Subject: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, Steve Wright -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
This is not to condone discourtesy, but the key to this complaint is being on the list for a while. In the everyday friction of life, terse emails are easily misinterpreted. I happen to feel that van Ouwerkerk's reponse is not disgraceful, and attributing it to his attitude is a leap of the imagination. Sometimes one feels like being curt to those myriad posts that ask questions, maybe 30-50 percent of the posts on this list, where the answer is in the manual. One could allege discourtesy to those people that abuse the list by asking questions that are in the manual. The point is, it would be also legitimate for anyone to complain about the disgraceful attitude of of people who post before looking. I would think it appropriate that the dues for posting should be that at least individuals search the manual first. The occasional poster that missed the item in the search in the manual would certainly be easily tolerated. _jef -- Steve Wright wrote: I have to say, after only being a member of the list for a while that the attitude of B van Ouwerkerk to be disgraceful. Everybody needs help sometimes, and no one can know it all.. so if you don't have anything positive to say, then don't say anything! Thanks for reading, -- -- Justin Farnsworth Eye Integrated Communications 321 South Evans - Suite 203 Greenville, NC 27858 | Tel: (252) 353-0722 -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
PhP'ers I would suggest that people not think too hard about this and continue programming. Thats right get back to work...:) Have Fun! --ccma -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I've just looked at his emails for the last week, and he is a helpful guy! Not only is he helpful, I'll wager he's being helpful in a language that's not his native tongue, so it's utterly unreasonable to expect the subtle 'gentle' idioms that you might get from a native speaker who had plenty of time to construct an email, and plenty of patience for someone who should have RTFM. I say, be grateful he is sparing some time to contribute! -- Phil Driscoll -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
on 7/31/01 12:37 PM, scott [gts] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a fine line between being terse and being nasty. please don't misinterpret this, but i think that we could all benefit from being less sensitive of the style each of us express ourselves in... once again, scott, you seem to have a nice concise way of putting things :) newbies are part of internet communities, as are old curmudgeons. thankfully, so too are the wise, willing to share their knowledge. recently, Brian White mentioned a propsed faq for the headers already sent question. also, Philip Olson mentioned a link at php.faqts. what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? i have been saving good responses to faq type questions with the intent of putting a faq together. now is as good a time as any. i'll post something in a couple days. that way, we can politley say to newcomers. hey, nice to have you around. hope we can help you out some. two places you should go to get started are php.net and link.to.list.faq let me know if there already is one. have a day, mike -- mike cullerton -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Not for this list specifically, and not as well used as it might be ;) http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php Kirk what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
ok just cut the crap now and get back to whats really important, helping people!!! -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com New address new site ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: Johnson, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: php [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Not for this list specifically, and not as well used as it might be ;) http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php Kirk what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I don't think this is just crap. Not everyone keeps up with the manual (too bad) and sending stuff to the list is just the convenient thing do. As the list grows, there will always be new newbies, there will be questions that have been asked before. Long term users might get annoyed. I think what we should do is to respond to this kind of questions by just refering to the documentation, not more. So we don't spoil the newbies, but also we don't need to bash them arround. At 08:29 PM 7/31/2001 -0700, Kyle Smith wrote: ok just cut the crap now and get back to whats really important, helping people!!! -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com New address new site ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: Johnson, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: php [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Not for this list specifically, and not as well used as it might be ;) http://www.php.net/manual/en/faq.php Kirk what is up with a faq for this list? is there one? -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ezra Nugroho Web/Database Application Specialist Goshen College ITS Phone: (219) 535-7706 Don't be humble, you're not that great. -- Golda Meir -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Let me give just one reply.. I did read them all.. I don't hate Kyle Smith /me rather uses the energy needed to hate in a positive way.. Like to write docs for an opensource project. Did a rewrite once.. Phil Driscoll.. you win. I'm Dutch. No I don't have time to go a few times over my mail just to see if I can put things nicer or just in another way. Have to develop some applications.. learn new stuff.. review old code to make it better.. I keep on learning :-) I agree with Justin Farnsworth and Scott [gts].. (And a few others..) I don't think I've got an attitude problem. I don't know everything but I do bother to find information before I start asking questions to others who need to spend their VALUABLE time on MY problem. IMHO someone who found php.net and this list to ask his/her question should also have clicked on the DOCUMENTATION and downloaded the manual of his/her taste. I'd say only ask your question if it's not in the docs (perhaps not 100% clear) or in the archive.. Searchengines can be a great source too.. If it's in the archive it will cost less time then to wait for an answer. Sure you can look over something even if it's staring in your face.. I'm quite sure others will point that out to anyone who send a question.. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. I find it worth mentioning that he finally downloaded the manual.. Enough bandwith and time wasted. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Yes, i did download the manual the reason why i come here first is cause when i ask people who know it alread yi know i will get a straight answer and people will put it in a more understandable way then a lot of the tutorials -lk6- http://www.StupeedStudios.f2s.com Home of the burning lego man! ICQ: 115852509 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: legokiller666 - Original Message - From: B. van Ouwerkerk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Let me give just one reply.. I did read them all.. I don't hate Kyle Smith /me rather uses the energy needed to hate in a positive way.. Like to write docs for an opensource project. Did a rewrite once.. Phil Driscoll.. you win. I'm Dutch. No I don't have time to go a few times over my mail just to see if I can put things nicer or just in another way. Have to develop some applications.. learn new stuff.. review old code to make it better.. I keep on learning :-) I agree with Justin Farnsworth and Scott [gts].. (And a few others..) I don't think I've got an attitude problem. I don't know everything but I do bother to find information before I start asking questions to others who need to spend their VALUABLE time on MY problem. IMHO someone who found php.net and this list to ask his/her question should also have clicked on the DOCUMENTATION and downloaded the manual of his/her taste. I'd say only ask your question if it's not in the docs (perhaps not 100% clear) or in the archive.. Searchengines can be a great source too.. If it's in the archive it will cost less time then to wait for an answer. Sure you can look over something even if it's staring in your face.. I'm quite sure others will point that out to anyone who send a question.. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. I find it worth mentioning that he finally downloaded the manual.. Enough bandwith and time wasted. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
B. van Ouwerkerk wrote: Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. You didn't even RTFM him. I found it to be more like RTM, the more gentle version (the one without words connected to sexual intercourse). Your answer was short, but not harsh. I thought so, anyway. regards Wagner PS: Enough said. -- Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
I agree with the try to answer your own question first theory that you propose... I have used PHP for almost 2 years now, and just subscribed to this list a month or two ago, but have yet to ask a single question... But I realize we're all at different skill levels, and so far, I haven't done anything as advanced as some of the members of this list. :) I think it's great that the members of this list are as selfless as they are in helping people try to solve their problems and helping newbies learn how to do some great things with PHP, but it seems to me that it is -much- more time intensive to subscribe to this list and post a message saying how do I send mail with PHP? than to go to www.php.net and click on Mail functions in the manual. :) Perhaps the Mailing Lists page on php.net could have a paragraph at the top saying before asking for help on the PHP mailing lists, check the linkannotated manual/link for examples and explanations ? Anyone else agree? As for the FAQ proposal, I think it would be great for someone to set up a site where FAQ items could be posted (no matter -how- trivial they may seem to an experienced PHP user) and moderated into a heirarchy by subject... The annotations in the PHP manual can be incredibly helpful on occasion. --Matt -Original Message- From: B. van Ouwerkerk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 5:11 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk Let me give just one reply.. I did read them all.. I don't hate Kyle Smith /me rather uses the energy needed to hate in a positive way.. Like to write docs for an opensource project. Did a rewrite once.. Phil Driscoll.. you win. I'm Dutch. No I don't have time to go a few times over my mail just to see if I can put things nicer or just in another way. Have to develop some applications.. learn new stuff.. review old code to make it better.. I keep on learning :-) I agree with Justin Farnsworth and Scott [gts].. (And a few others..) I don't think I've got an attitude problem. I don't know everything but I do bother to find information before I start asking questions to others who need to spend their VALUABLE time on MY problem. IMHO someone who found php.net and this list to ask his/her question should also have clicked on the DOCUMENTATION and downloaded the manual of his/her taste. I'd say only ask your question if it's not in the docs (perhaps not 100% clear) or in the archive.. Searchengines can be a great source too.. If it's in the archive it will cost less time then to wait for an answer. Sure you can look over something even if it's staring in your face.. I'm quite sure others will point that out to anyone who send a question.. There's nothing wrong with being a newbie.. the only newbie-problem I see/have is the lazy one.. ask ask ask ask without taking the time to read the manual or to do a search in the archive. Sure there are newbies who read the manual.. get some tutorials.. thats good. They should get all the support they need.. Ask yourself.. who has an attitude problem here.. Someone who didn't read the manual.. or someone (/me) who wrote to RTFM. I find it worth mentioning that he finally downloaded the manual.. Enough bandwith and time wasted. Bye, B. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PHP] Attitude of B van Ouwerkerk
Ok, I've been following this thread for the last few minutes ... and I have to wonder what is this list for if not to ask questions, thereby learning. Yes there's tons of different resources online, yup, that would mean this is one too. If you don't want to waste your time and read a question, then answer it ... fine, don't, erase it, and move on with your life. But lets not talk down the people who ask questions and make them feel worse for asking. -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To contact the list administrators, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
