Re: PilCon tomorrow

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

I could perhaps make a short presentation/ demo of an application I am
running in production? It is a simple app, so it could go well together
with the theme of showing more basic stuff?

I'll try to prepare a bit this evening :)

// Mattias

On Sun, May 09, 2021 at 06:53:50AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> tomorrow, the 10th, we will have the next PilCon, at 8:00 UTC on
> 
>https://meeting.itship.ch/PilCon
> 
> I'd like to go back to more basic stuff. Is that all right? The last few
> sessions were probably too deep into complicated code details.
> 
> Let's make free question and answer rounds. And if anybody feels ready to
> present something (Mattias?), please do so!
> 
> ☺/ A!ex
> 
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Re: PilCon Schedule

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi everyone,

I will try to attend too. I think it is nice to just take a little time
to meet each other and talk about whatever happens to come up, be it
programming, Picolisp or life in general. If there are no topics, we can
simply have a quick coffee together (even though everyone is in a
separate location).

We are a small community, but I have always found this to be a great
opportunity to get to know people who share interests.

Best wishes,

Mattias

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021 at 01:38:12PM +0100, Alexander Burger wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> no results.
> 
> So I simply decide for 10th 8:00 UTC / 20th 16:00 UTC as the new schedule.
> 
> I will be there next time (https://meeting.itship.ch/PilCon) on Wednesday,
> February 10th, at 8:00 UTC. If anybody has time, feel free to show up. I will
> not invest time to prepare topics, seminars, tutorials or recordings. Sorry!
> 
> ☺/ A!ex
> 
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Re: Fridays for Functions (Was: PilCon 2020)

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hello everyone!

I like this idea. We could have a permanent arrangement like this, I think it 
would be very good for the community. 

A nice way to discuss things and raise questions. Count me in!

Mattias

Alexander Burger  skrev: (3 juni 2020 07:54:22 CEST)
>Hi all,
>
>after we canceled PilCon 2020, we discussed in this list and in IRC the
>idea of
>doing something online instead. Some people proposed Jitsi.
>
>A linear format of just streaming presentations is a bit uninteresting.
>This
>could be done in a Youtube channel. What do you think about a free-form
>ongoing
>event, with regular shorter meetings?
>
>Beneroth already set up a Jitsi server. He also came up with the name
>"PilClub".
>
>I would propose informal Jitsi meetings every second Friday or so. The
>time
>could be alternating 8:00 and 16:00 UTC, to allow attendance from most
>time
>zones. No big planning and schedule. Let's start with questions,
>tutorials and
>demonstrations.
>
>Any thoughts?
>
>☺/ A!ex
>
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Re: PilCon 2020

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hello,

This is sad, but I think it is the most realistic decision under the
circumstances. Let's hope we can arrange something in the future.

I too would be interested in an online conference.

/ Mattias
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:00:21AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> yesterday the Oktoberfest, the largest annual event in Bavaria, was canceled.
> 
> I think we will also have to cancel the other large event, PilCon. It is not
> sure whether such events will be allowed legally by end of July, and how the
> international travel situation will be.
> 
> I hope this is OK for everybody.
> 
> Would it make sense to plan an online conference instead? We are playing 
> around
> with Jitsi Meet currently. Any thoughts?
> 
> ☺/ A!ex
> 
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Re: Proposal: PilCon 2020

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hello everyone!

This is a great idea. I will be there, 90% chance of attending.

Best wishes,
Mattias


Alexander Burger  skrev: (25 december 2019 10:56:30 CET)
>Hi all,
>
>a merry Christmas to everybody! o/
>
>
>Since a few weeks we were discussing in the #picolisp IRC channel about
>holding
>a PicoLisp Conference in Langweid / Germany next year.
>
>It would be on July 27th (Mon), 28th (Tue), and - if necessary - 29th.
>I can get
>a room and equipment for about 30 people, in "Kulturbahnhof", the old
>Langweid
>train station building.
>
>With this mail I'd like to find out how many people are actually
>interested to
>participate, and their probabilities of attendance (in percent).
>
>Langweid is by train 15 minutes from Augsburg, or one hour from München
>central
>station. There are some hotels/pensions in Langweid, and more in
>Augsburg or one
>of the villages nearby (reachable by train or bus).
>
>I could make two or three presentations about what I'm working on
>currently,
>anybody else is welcome to do the same, and/or we could make a general
>PicoLisp
>workshop.
>
>One of the oldest PicoLisp customers (since 2002, also the one with the
>largest
>user base) is about 3 km from Langweid, and I have a probable OK that
>some
>interested conference attendees might join to visit them.
>
>Let's discuss further details here in the list, or perhaps in the wiki
>at
>picolisp.com.
>
>
>I wish peaceful days and a good start into 2020 for all of you!
>
>☺/ A!ex
>
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Re: Merry Christmas!!

[Mattias Sundblad]

Just to add to the international flavour:

God jul!

// Mattias

Priyadarshan  skrev: (24 december 2019 18:40:57 CET)
>Tuesday, December 24, 2019, 3:01:45 PM, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Everyone!
>> Just want to greet you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in
>advance!
>> More power to Pico Lisp community and once again, thank you Alex for
>> sharing your talents to us.
>> Cheers from Philippines,
>> Geo
>
>Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo!
>
>I am discovering in PicoLisp such a joyful and powerful
>language. Thank you.
>
>Priyadarshan
>
>
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Re: Merry Christmas!!

[Mattias Sundblad]

Merry Christmas everyone!

Mattias

George-Phillip Orais  skrev: (24 december 2019 
15:01:45 CET)
>Hi Everyone!
>
>Just want to greet you all a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in
>advance!
>
>More power to Pico Lisp community and once again, thank you Alex for
>sharing your talents to us.
>
>
>Cheers from Philippines,
>Geo

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Re: ORM comparison

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi Kashyap!

Thank you for posting many good examples on the mailing list, and
welcome to the PicoLisp world!

> There is a plethora of ORM systems such as ActiveRecords (in Ruby/Rails) or
> Microsoft EntityFramework and similar solutions in other languages where
> Objects are mapped to SQL DB records.

My thoughts on this subject is that ORM systems such as ActiveRecord and
EntityFramework are there to map different technologies to one another, but the
database in PicoLisp is "just" another form of symbols.

ActiveRecord would map rows in a SQL database to Ruby objects and back, but
there is not such a big difference between external and internal symbols in
PicoLisp. Here, we have "symbols all the way down" instead of having to
"massage" data between quite different forms.

Personally, I find the Pil database one of the big advantages of the
language. There is no longer any need to install, setup and administer a
SQL database. I do not have context switch between objects on the one
hand and tables and rows on the other. There is suddenly a consistent
world to work in :)

Best regards,

Mattias


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Re: Wikipedia

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

>"IA-32" is not explicitly supported. It would rather be "C" for pil32
>and "emu"
>on pil64. But this is probably too confusing for a Wikipedia article ;)

Yes, most likely :)

>Other supported architectures (besides "x86-64") are "arm64" and
>"ppc64" 

I see. Would adding arm64 and ppc64 to the Wikipedia page make sense?

Regards,
Mattias

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Re: Transient Symbol Markup

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

I' m fine with removing it. Is it not mentioned somewhere in the tutorial or a 
similar place?

I seem to remember reading "don' t struggle to make " appear"..?

I can have a look this evening.

Best wishes,
Mattias

Alexander Burger  skrev: (20 december 2018 13:15:05 CET)
>Hi all,
>
>I will remove the "Transient Symbol Markup" functionality from the
>PicoLisp
>kernel and some libraries.
>
>This is no big loss, I believe. Most of you were probably not even
>aware of it,
>and I myself didn't use it since many years. It makes things like
>(line-)
>editors unnecessarily complex, and therefore even Vip doesn't support
>it.
>
>As a feature, it is un-picolisp-ish, because it hides things (i.e. the
>double
>quotes around transient symbols) from the programmer, and because it
>adds an
>unnecessary concept.
>
>I hope it is OK :)
>
>☺/ A!ex
>
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Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation

[Mattias Sundblad]

Thank you Lindsay!

Since there seems to be some interest in a tutorial and some more examples, I
will try to write something suitable and adapt the programs mentioned in the
presentation to serve as examples. Might take some time, but I will do my
best!

Mattias

On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 08:56:47AM -0700, Lindsay Lawrence wrote:
> Thanks for sharing the presentation. Nice insights and a reminder of the
> 'full-stack' functionality available in picolisp.
> I would be very interested to hear more detail around how you built out the
> gui.
> >

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Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi Rick,

Thanks!

I think this point is important and sadly forgotten in the IT world of today. 
We focus a lot in the next speedy machines and gigantic storage capabilities 
about to arrive, but we forget our own capacity. Maybe the current interest in 
AI and machine learning is people trying to create a new machine that could 
help us make sense of the first machine, when this first machine has now grown 
beyond ourselves?

Mattias

r...@tamos.net skrev: (26 september 2018 04:39:07 CEST)
>“Money” bullet:
>
>“Yes, computers can store and handle almost unlimited amounts of code
>today. But what about you?”

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Re: Slides and notes from my Picolisp presentation

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi Joe,

> I also really enjoyed the presentation. Thank you for sharing!

Thank you very much!

> I'd be interested in hearing more about the django vs picolisp development
> experience.

My experience is that Django requires more work to set up. There are more things
to handle and you work more with the framework and less with the actual problem,
in my view.

Django is ok as far as traditional frameworks go, and it does provide quite a
lot of functionality out of the box. As long as you stay within those
boundaries, you can get a lot done in a short time. However, once you need to
step outside this box things get complicated. Most projects tend to reach for
third party components in these cases, and end up with a very large application
containing even larger parts which you do not have very much control over.

We have many examples of web applications at work that are now composed of
obsolete components, framework versions, etc. I am responsible for creating some
of them. While it was possible for our small team to build them quickly in the
first place, we have sadly been unable to maintain them, and it is now in a
state where a re-write is probably the best way forward. In a way, the framework
has made it possible for us to outrun ourselves, our capabilites. It has moved
us to a place where we are no longer in control. In contrast, Picolisp seems to
let you go as far forward as you are ready to handle at any given point in time.

I have not used Flask much, but it seems to be a bit more minimalist compared to
Django?

Another point worth mentioning is the differences in learning experiences. While
using Django, I mostly learned Django and not that much else. I became a
developer who could only work within those confines. Picolisp on the other hand,
was harder to get started with, but working with Pil has made me a much better
programmer. It constantly challenges me in a good way and makes me learn things.
The demo app provided with the distribution has been an invaluable help in
getting started, together with Regenaxer and this community as a whole of
course!

This is my experience and my take on the matter. Naturally, it could of course
be because I was an extraordinarily poor Django developer. However, I was still
able to create several systems using the technology.

Picolisp gives you ownership of the applications in a much better way, I think.
You write the code you need and you own it afterwards, being able to change it,
re-write it or even delete it, depending on the needs of your clients and users.
It removes that sinking feeling I get when thinking about updating the old,
outdated, applications written in "traditional" technologies. ;)


> love to hear how picolisp compared. Did you use the stock picolisp gui
> library?

The first version did use the stock Picolisp gui, but the current version has a
different look. This was mostly achieved through the use of a custom CSS, only
very small changes were made to the Lisp code itself. Would this be an
interesting subject to write a tutorial around?

Best regards,

Mattias

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Re: Repeated call to fill out the survey on changing the Wiki

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi Mansur,

Python, so much layers of 
>abstraction there, that makes me crazy after PicoLisp :)

I am glad to hear it is not just me having the same feeling. :)

>
>On 07.07.2018 21:39, Arie van Wingerden wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> so far, 20 people have done the survey. Probably there are much more 
>> PicoLisp users around.
>> 
>> Please take a few minutes to help PicoLisp promotion forward by
>filling 
>> out the survey here: https://eSurv.org?s=MOIEMH_753ad7ff
>> 
>> There are still 10 days left. After that we can show the results:)
>> 
>> Thank you all!
>>     Arie
>
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Re: Repeated call to fill out the survey on changing the Wiki

[Mattias Sundblad]

I filled out the survey, sorry about taking so long :)
I think this is a good initiative.

Regards,
Mattias

Jean-Christophe Helary  skrev: (8 juli 2018 01:44:28 CEST)
>
>
>> On Jul 8, 2018, at 1:56, Johann-Tobias Schäg 
>wrote:
>> 
>> That is just the decision for the content of a text file that can be
>easily modified.
>
>Any text file can easily be modified. What matters is how an
>organization lets people modify its text files.
>Arle is doing a nice job with the documentation. That's a very
>important part of what keeps an organization alive.
>
>Jean-Christophe Helary
>---
>http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune

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Re: In the docs: within or vice versa, more glitches

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi Jon,

> It seems you forgot something in doc/form/refF.html, line 101. I guess there 
> should have been “Formatting” just before the final “.”

Seems so, added the missing word.

Regards,
Mattias
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Re: In the docs: within or vice versa

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hello Jon,

> In the docs there are lots of occurrences (2325) of “”, and also 
> some (751, mainly within doc/form/) of “”. I haven’t checked which 
> one is the most correct. However, in doc/form/refC.html, line 82, there’s a 
> bad mix:
> 
> +Chg

I'll change refC.html. Thanks for noticing!

> I suspect there may be more of this mixed kind, but I don’t have time to 
> check it right now.

There probably is, along with other oversights. I am a bit busy this
weekend, but I will start going through the form docs and make
corrections as soon as possible. Good to see the docs being used!

// Mattias
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Re: doc/form/refQ.html: missing "" after ""

[Mattias Sundblad]

Thanks Jon! I'll fix the errors right away


Den 17 jan. 2017 12:33 em skrev "Jon Kleiser" :

> Hi,
>
> I have found a few things that should be fixed in doc/form/refQ.html.
>
> line 120: missing "" after ""
> line 161: missing space before " line 162: the "the " could go before the "
> /Jon
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Re: Translation Request

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hello Alex,

A swedish translation would be 'Infoga ny rad'.

Best wishes,
Mattias
Den 5 jan 2016 08:10 skrev "Alexander Burger" :

> Hello translators!
>
> This is to all who helped with the localization of PicoLisp, by
> providing translation strings for the @loc/?? files.
>
> The new '+InsRowButton' GUI prefix class - a button which inserts an
> empty row into a chart - has a tooltip string
>
>,"Insert empty row"
>
> I made the German (@loc/de) and Japanese translations (@loc/jp),
> and included all into the rolling release at
>
>http://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz
>
>
> Can someone post translations of the above string for "es", "no", "ru"
> and "se"?
>
> Thanks!
> ♪♫ Alex
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Re: picolisp in nix

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

nice work Tomas!

I believe you can look at http://software-lab.de/doc/ChangeLog to check for
new versions?

regards,

Mattias

On 3 October 2015 at 01:33, Rick Hanson  wrote:

> > if you are using the nix package manager , you
> > will be be able to install the latest picolisp (now 3.1.11) very easily.
>
> Thanks, Tomas!
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Re: Booting PilOS

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi George and Alex,

 Yes! i was able build the image and immediately tried it using my USB stick, 
 it's working!!! but I'm stuck at Checking long mode.. maybe because I'm 
 trying it under an Intel i3? Let me try it with my AMD machine back in my 
 room and feedback to you how it goes... this is great!!

I ran into the same message when trying to boot PilOS on an Asus UL30A,
this machine has a core2duo cpu.

Alex, you already got the following results, I'm just reposting them to the list
as well.

I have tried PilOS on the following machines:

*Acer Aspire One 722, AMD C-60 cpu
Everything works fine on this machine.

*Lenovo Thinkpad x201i, i3 cpu
Fails with the message READ ERROR 08

*Lenovo Thinkpad x230, i5 cpu
Fails with the message READ ERROR 01

*and finally the Asus UL30A, Core2Duo cpu
Does not get past the message Checking long mode

Best regards,
Mattias

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Merry Christmas!

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

I'd like to wish everyone on the list a merry christmas and a happy new
year. Learning Picolisp is a great and fun challenge for me at least and
I'm looking forward to continuing the journey.

Also, a big thanks to Alex for all the hard work put into the language,
designing and developing it as well as guiding us new ones along :).

Merry Christmas!

Mattias

Re: Announce: PicoLisp in Hardware (PilMCU)

[Mattias Sundblad]

Great news and good work! Congratulations!

I second what Joe wrote a bit earlier, it truly is inspiring to see
PicoLisp improve.

best regards,
Mattias

On 19 September 2014 15:24, Thorsten Jolitz tjol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de writes:

 Hi Alex (and George),

  we are proud to announce PilMCU, the Lisp Machine on a Chip! :)

 though not really a hardware/low-level guy, I think this sounds pretty
 exiting!

  How shall we proceed? We need investors (or crowdfunding) to polish,
  manufacture and distribute the real thing.

 I suggest to proceed in 2 steps:

  1. make me a team member

  2. repeat the {Microsoft|Apple}-Story

 ;-)

  We imagine something in the line of an Embedded Lisp Machine or a
  Lisp Machine Kit. Perhaps for home brewing, educational institutions
  and/or robotics research?
 
  Is anybody interested -- or knows people who are?

 I think I have VC-Companies and Robotics-Research-Faculties in my
 neighborhood, so once you have a business-idea based on PilMCU's USPs, I
 could try to make first contacts if that helps.

 Not sure what would be a realistic business idea, but maybe start by
 figuring out where the real money is nowadays (energy sector,
 automotive sector, mobile-phones etc) and then think about a possible
 niche to
 fill.

 Makes things much easier when potential clients drown in profits ;)

 If you find out e.g. how an Embedded Lisp Machine can be really useful
 for the car industry, we will all have PicoLisp jobs pretty soon!

 --
 cheers,
 Thorsten

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Re: httpGate not found:: Simple Canvas Drawing: A Minimal Example

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

how about adding a separate httpGate_readme? This file could contain build
instructions and a short introduction and be expanded later. Perhaps
pointing to a future httpGate documentation section on the picolisp website?

Best regards,
Mattias


On 28 June 2014 08:51, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote:

 On Sat, Jun 28, 2014 at 07:00:45AM +0200, Alexander Burger wrote:
  I try to put at least a note into INSTALL before the next release (on
 Monday).

 I did so, but now reverted again. I want to keep 'httpGate' out of the
 INSTALL instructions, keeping it simple.

 ♪♫ Alex
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Re: httpGate not found:: Simple Canvas Drawing: A Minimal Example

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi Alex,

sounds like httpGate is an interesting and quite capable part of the
ecosystem. I haven't had time to try it out at all myself, focusing on
trying to learn the picoLisp language itself for now. Maybe I'll try and
find some time to experiment a bit.

New release coming up on monday? Looking forward to that!

Best regards,

Mattias


On 28 June 2014 10:28, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de wrote:

 Hi Mattias,

  how about adding a separate httpGate_readme? This file could contain
 build
  instructions and a short introduction and be expanded later. Perhaps
  pointing to a future httpGate documentation section on the picolisp
 website?

 Yes. In fact, when I wrote about on my todo list before, I thought of
 my plans to write an httpGate article in the Wiki.

 There is more to 'httpGate' than I've communicated until now. I use it
 to auto-start applications on the server, based on symbolic names in a
 configuration file mapping to the application-specific ports. This works
 in combination with 'ping' (to keep applications alive) and 'retire'
 (to stop idle applications).

 Just couldn't find the time yet ;-)

 ♪♫ Alex
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Re: Calculating age based on DOB

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,

I think you need to run 'make all' or 'make gate' to build httpGate along
with the interpreter. That should create a binary and place it in the 'bin'
directory of the distribution.

best wishes,
Mattias


On 2 February 2014 18:16, me yanosh...@gmail.com wrote:

 Thank you Alex.  I cannot seem to find httpGate anywhere in the
 distribution 3.1.5.  I know this is terribly noob-ish but where is httpGate
 located?


 On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 2:02 AM, Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.dewrote:

 Hi David,

  If I load the app by going to localhost:8080 I see the button and can
 click
  on it but nothing happens and the button becomes disabled.  If I then
  refresh the page (it now has a long session string in the address bar)
 the
  button is enabled and I can click on it, the desired Alert dialog pops
 up
  working correctly.

 Indeed, this is a known problem.

 The reason lies with the same server orgigin policy of JavaScript's
 XMLHttpRequests. Because PicoLisp uses a separate HTTP port for each
 session, JavaScript (wrongly) believes this is a new server, and refuses
 to execute :(


  How can I get the button to work the first time without reloading the
 page?

 The right way to handle this is to run web applications in combination
 with 'httpGate'. The best way is to start (as user 'root')

/usr/lib/picolisp/bin/httpGate 80 8080

 and (if you like to use HTTPS)

/usr/lib/picolisp/bin/httpGate 443 8080 path-to-PEM

 I have similar lines in my /etc/rc.local file. For a local
 installation, adjust the pathes to 'httpGate' accordingly.


 With httpGate you also have the advantage that you don't need to specify
 :8080 in the browser (and that you can use HTTPS, of course).

 ♪♫ Alex
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Re: Citations for Wikipedia

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hi,
I ran the article through Wikipedia's reflinks tool (
https://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webreflinks.py?page=Picolispciteweb=onoverwrite=simplelimit=200),
which made a slight change to a url embedded in the page. I am not very
involved with wikipedia either, but I can try and read up on what else
needs to be done.

This is my first post to the list after recenlty discovering picolisp.
Impressive software, thanks!

best wishes,
Mattias


On 30 June 2013 15:52, Thorsten Jolitz tjol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de writes:

 Hi Alex,

  recently the Wikipedia PicoLisp article was marked as lacking full
  citations and/or inline citations.
 
  I must say that I don't understand it. Reading the Wikipedia guidelines
  doesn't enlight me at all. What exactly needs to be done? Does anybody
  know, or even dare to fix it?

 I'm not involved with Wikipedia, so maybe others can fix it, but I
 understand the 'missing inline citation' part:

 Text:

 ,-
 | BURGER (1997) describes the core elements of PicoLisp: [..]. It can be
 | used for very efficient web application programming (BURGER 2009). [...]
 `-


 [These explicit references to the sources of the information given in the
 text are missing]

 REFS:

 ,---
 | BURGER 1997: Title
 | BURGER 2009: Title
 `---


 --
 cheers,
 Thorsten

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Re: Citations for Wikipedia

[Mattias Sundblad]

Hello,

I made some further edits to the wikipedia page, hope things look good.

best wishes,
Mattias


On 30 June 2013 16:42, Mattias Sundblad mattias@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 I ran the article through Wikipedia's reflinks tool (
 https://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/webreflinks.py?page=Picolispciteweb=onoverwrite=simplelimit=200),
 which made a slight change to a url embedded in the page. I am not very
 involved with wikipedia either, but I can try and read up on what else
 needs to be done.

 This is my first post to the list after recenlty discovering picolisp.
 Impressive software, thanks!

 best wishes,
 Mattias


 On 30 June 2013 15:52, Thorsten Jolitz tjol...@gmail.com wrote:

 Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de writes:

 Hi Alex,

  recently the Wikipedia PicoLisp article was marked as lacking full
  citations and/or inline citations.
 
  I must say that I don't understand it. Reading the Wikipedia guidelines
  doesn't enlight me at all. What exactly needs to be done? Does anybody
  know, or even dare to fix it?

 I'm not involved with Wikipedia, so maybe others can fix it, but I
 understand the 'missing inline citation' part:

 Text:

 ,-
 | BURGER (1997) describes the core elements of PicoLisp: [..]. It can be
 | used for very efficient web application programming (BURGER 2009). [...]
 `-


 [These explicit references to the sources of the information given in the
 text are missing]

 REFS:

 ,---
 | BURGER 1997: Title
 | BURGER 2009: Title
 `---


 --
 cheers,
 Thorsten

 --
 UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe

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[Mattias Sundblad]