Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Fabian Greffrath

Am 12.09.2010 12:03, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

Applying CDBS without asking first would be considered outragous, I
suspect.


You betcha!


Not offering my help to avoid mentioning CDBS would be ridiculous.


Hint: Offer your help without mentioning CDBS.

Especially in cases like this, in which the package is easily fixed 
with either a refreshed patch or one additional line (i.e. autoconf 
build/generic/configure.in -o build/generic/configure) in the current 
debian/rules file.



Abandoning CDBS to avoid your silly comments would be ridiculous.


Silly comments, he? Have you ever considered that it may sound 
insulting for a package maintainer if you repeatedly suggest to 
convert their current debian/rules implementation to something 
different, just because you like it better?



Now, could we please move on?


Yes, please. ;)

 - Fabian

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 09:40:10AM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote:

Am 12.09.2010 12:03, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

Applying CDBS without asking first would be considered outragous, I
suspect.


You betcha!


Not offering my help to avoid mentioning CDBS would be ridiculous.


Hint: Offer your help without mentioning CDBS.


I got the message now.

From now on I will stay away whenever my intended help involves CDBS 
(for packages not already using it), as that is essentially what you 
tell me to do.



 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Fabian Greffrath

Am 13.09.2010 11:20, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

 From now on I will stay away whenever my intended help involves CDBS
(for packages not already using it), as that is essentially what you
tell me to do.


I am not *telling* you what to do. At least this is not my intention 
and I'd like to apologize if my previous mails left you with this 
impression.


I am *asking* you to keep CDBS out of the discussion if the issue at 
hand is completely unrelated to it. Why do you insist on suggesting 
people to convert their previous work to your preferred packaging 
style, even if the issue at hand can be perfectly solved with the 
currently chosen style?


 - Fabian

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:29:18AM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote:

Am 13.09.2010 11:20, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:
From now on I will stay away whenever my intended help involves CDBS 
(for packages not already using it), as that is essentially what you 
tell me to do.


I am not *telling* you what to do. At least this is not my intention 
and I'd like to apologize if my previous mails left you with this 
impression.


I am *asking* you to keep CDBS out of the discussion if the issue at 
hand is completely unrelated to it. Why do you insist on suggesting 
people to convert their previous work to your preferred packaging 
style, even if the issue at hand can be perfectly solved with the 
currently chosen style?


I did *not* at this time suggest others to convert to CDBS - I offered 
to do it myself.  Instead, I did 2 things: a) pointed out a problem, and 
b) offered to solve it.


I did not offer to massage the huge patch, as I dislike that approach.  
And since my proposed alternate solution involved CDBS, I warned about 
this.


At other times I have suggested people to use CDBS for their packaging, 
as part of offering to work together with them on their packages.



If CDBS is outlawed in this team, then let's get it over with, instead 
of harrassing me about it.



Kind regards,

 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Alessio Treglia
Jonas,

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
 From now on I will stay away whenever my intended help involves CDBS (for
 packages not already using it), as that is essentially what you tell me to
 do.

I admire you and your work, I think you're are a great experienced
Debian Developer but your words sound really odd to me.

As you know, I prefer using DH but this doesn't make me refuse to help
anyone who would like to maintain an interesting package using CDBS
only (or CDBS+debhelper) rather than the abbreviated pure DH7
short-form. Of course I suggest to my sponsorees to use DH, but if
they feel more comfortable to choose some other tool which allows them
to do an appreciable job well, I can assure you that I don't raise any
particular objections. Even if they decide to not follow my advices
and go on using CDBS.

The reason is easy to find: we are a team and IMHO what we should do
is a collaborative effort.
That is a bit different from playing against ourselves.


-- 
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Debian  Ubuntu Developer | Homepage: http://www.alessiotreglia.com
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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Reinhard Tartler
On Mo, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:53:22 (CEST), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

 I did *not* at this time suggest others to convert to CDBS - I offered
 to do it myself.  Instead, I did 2 things: a) pointed out a problem, and
 b) offered to solve it.

Thanks for a), and Thanks, but no for b). please don't convert xvidcore to 
cdbs.

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:06:53PM +0200, Alessio Treglia wrote:

Jonas,

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
From now on I will stay away whenever my intended help involves CDBS 
(for packages not already using it), as that is essentially what you 
tell me to do.


I admire you and your work, I think you're are a great experienced 
Debian Developer but your words sound really odd to me.


As you know, I prefer using DH but this doesn't make me refuse to help 
anyone who would like to maintain an interesting package using CDBS 
only (or CDBS+debhelper) rather than the abbreviated pure DH7 
short-form. Of course I suggest to my sponsorees to use DH, but if they 
feel more comfortable to choose some other tool which allows them to do 
an appreciable job well, I can assure you that I don't raise any 
particular objections. Even if they decide to not follow my advices and 
go on using CDBS.


The reason is easy to find: we are a team and IMHO what we should do is 
a collaborative effort. That is a bit different from playing against 
ourselves.



Thanks for the kind words.

I suspect that perhaps my compact statement was open to 
misinterpretation.  Let me try elaborate a bit:


 * I want to help where I can and where my help is welcome.
 * I cannot help with issues directly tied to short-form dh, since I am 
   not familiar with this technique.
 * I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved using 
   either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.
 * I will continue to offer my help with issues unrelated to short-form 
   dh or CDBS.


Do you still find it odd?


Kind regards,

--
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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 12:55:02PM +0200, Reinhard Tartler wrote:

On Mo, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:53:22 (CEST), Jonas Smedegaard wrote:

I did *not* at this time suggest others to convert to CDBS - I 
offered to do it myself.  Instead, I did 2 things: a) pointed out a 
problem, and b) offered to solve it.


Thanks for a), and Thanks, but no for b). please don't convert 
xvidcore to cdbs.


Why do you state the obvious?

Yes, by now the problem has been dealt with by others.  Do you have some 
other reason to post the above than harrass me?



 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Fabian Greffrath

Although I have not been asked directly, I feel free to respond.

Am 13.09.2010 13:04, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

* I want to help where I can and where my help is welcome.
* I cannot help with issues directly tied to short-form dh, since I am
not familiar with this technique.


IMHO these two points are perfectly reasonable and appreciated.


* I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved
using either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.


But I still fail to understand this point. If for example a package 
using short-form dh7 in debian/rules needs a patch to the source or is 
missing a file reference in debian/foo.install, what keeps you from 
contributing?



* I will continue to offer my help with issues unrelated to short-form
dh or CDBS.


This is again reasonable and appreciated, but IMHO still contradictory 
to your previous point.


 - Fabian

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Felipe Sateler
On 13/09/10 07:52, Fabian Greffrath wrote:
 
 * I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved
 using either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.
 
 But I still fail to understand this point. If for example a package
 using short-form dh7 in debian/rules needs a patch to the source or is
 missing a file reference in debian/foo.install, what keeps you from
 contributing?

The issue at hand was solvable by either:

1- Dropping the patch, using a CDBS feature
2- Dropping the patch, using dh-autoreconf
3- Modifying the patch.

From what I understand, jonas was offering 1. When short-form dh is
used, _any_ modification to debian/rules needs understanding of short
form dh. So he is saying that he will no longer offer help for cases
like this one, which can be solved by features either in CDBS or in dh.

-- 
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Felipe Sateler

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 01:52:05PM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote:

Although I have not been asked directly, I feel free to respond.


sure :-)



Am 13.09.2010 13:04, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

* I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved
using either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.


But I still fail to understand this point. If for example a package 
using short-form dh7 in debian/rules needs a patch to the source or 
is missing a file reference in debian/foo.install, what keeps you 
from contributing?


Nothing.

Neither examples you present here seem related to short-form dh or CDBS.



* I will continue to offer my help with issues unrelated to short-form
dh or CDBS.


This is again reasonable and appreciated, but IMHO still 
contradictory to your previous point.


How so?

First I talk about issues related to short-form dh or CDBS.  Then about 
issues unrelated to them.


What is contradictory about that?

Could someone perhaps suggest me a better way of expressing this 
standpoint of mine, to avoid similar misunderstanding another time in 
another context?



Kind regards,

 - Jonas

--
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 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 07:58:58AM -0400, Felipe Sateler wrote:

On 13/09/10 07:52, Fabian Greffrath wrote:



* I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved
using either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.


But I still fail to understand this point. If for example a package 
using short-form dh7 in debian/rules needs a patch to the source or 
is missing a file reference in debian/foo.install, what keeps you 
from contributing?


The issue at hand was solvable by either:

1- Dropping the patch, using a CDBS feature
2- Dropping the patch, using dh-autoreconf
3- Modifying the patch.

From what I understand, jonas was offering 1. When short-form dh is 
used, _any_ modification to debian/rules needs understanding of short 
form dh. So he is saying that he will no longer offer help for cases 
like this one, which can be solved by features either in CDBS or in dh.


That is correctly understood.

As an aside, I personally believe that CDBS infected rules files are 
easier hackable by non-CDBS developers than short-form dh infected 
ones, but respect if others feel similarly alienated by CDBS as I do by 
short-form dh.



Kind regards,

 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Fabian Greffrath

Am 13.09.2010 14:29, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

Could someone perhaps suggest me a better way of expressing this
standpoint of mine, to avoid similar misunderstanding another time in
another context?


To bring this discussion to an end, I think Felipe's mail (which 
arrived just some 5 minutes after my own mail) was already quite 
explanatory to me and I think I have understood your position now.


Thanks,
Fabian

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 02:44:38PM +0200, Fabian Greffrath wrote:

Am 13.09.2010 14:29, schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:

Could someone perhaps suggest me a better way of expressing this
standpoint of mine, to avoid similar misunderstanding another time in
another context?


To bring this discussion to an end, I think Felipe's mail (which 
arrived just some 5 minutes after my own mail) was already quite 
explanatory to me and I think I have understood your position now.


Great.

 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Alessio Treglia
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
  * I want to help where I can and where my help is welcome.
  * I cannot help with issues directly tied to short-form dh, since I am
  not familiar with this technique.
  * I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved using
  either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.
  * I will continue to offer my help with issues unrelated to short-form
  dh or CDBS.

 Do you still find it odd?


No, obviously I don't. These sound really better than:

On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
 From now on I will stay away whenever my intended help involves CDBS (for 
 packages not already using it)

And previous emails from Fabian and Felipe helped me to catch what you
really meant.
I hope to see many commits coming from you again, over these months
I've learned a lot of things about CDBS by looking at your changes.

-- 
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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-13 Thread Andres Mejia
On Monday 13 September 2010 08:35:34 Jonas Smedegaard wrote:
 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 07:58:58AM -0400, Felipe Sateler wrote:
 On 13/09/10 07:52, Fabian Greffrath wrote:
  * I will no longer offer my help with issues that could be solved
  using either short-form dh or CDBS - except when CDBS is already used.
  
  But I still fail to understand this point. If for example a package
  using short-form dh7 in debian/rules needs a patch to the source or
  is missing a file reference in debian/foo.install, what keeps you
  from contributing?
 
 The issue at hand was solvable by either:
 
 1- Dropping the patch, using a CDBS feature
 2- Dropping the patch, using dh-autoreconf
 3- Modifying the patch.
 
 From what I understand, jonas was offering 1. When short-form dh is
 used, _any_ modification to debian/rules needs understanding of short
 form dh. So he is saying that he will no longer offer help for cases
 like this one, which can be solved by features either in CDBS or in dh.
 
 That is correctly understood.
 
 As an aside, I personally believe that CDBS infected rules files are
 easier hackable by non-CDBS developers than short-form dh infected
 ones, but respect if others feel similarly alienated by CDBS as I do by
 short-form dh.

I suppose it would be easier to hack on CDBS rules file if you happen to be
CDBS author.

I however didn't find it easier when I was trying to do the equivalent of
'override_dh_gencontrol' using CDBS. For example, look at [1]. Chromium
browser dlopen's ffmpeg libs. In order to depend on proper ffmpeg libs using
dpkg-shlibdeps mechanism of calculating dependencies, the dependencies have to
be manually added.

It took me quite a while to figure out that the equivalent for
'override_dh_gencontrol' in CDBS is overridding
'binary-makedeb-IMPL/package_name::' target from debhelper.mk. It was not
documented cdbs-doc, so I had to actually look at the source to figure this
out.

This reminds me. I should now report a bug to CDBS about this.

1. 
http://bzr.debian.org/scm/loggerhead/pkg-chromium/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.sid/annotate/head:/debian/rules

 
 Kind regards,
 
   - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-12 Thread Fabian Greffrath
Am Samstag, den 11.09.2010, 14:19 +0200 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard:
 Would anyone mind that I fix it and ensure this kind of breakage can't 
 happen again, using CDBS?

Eiter the patch needs to be regenerated or autoconf needs to be run
during every build to fix this issue. Please stop pretending this has
anything to do with CDBS, it's becoming ridiculous.

 - Fabian



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xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-11 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

Hi,

xvidcore packaging (not in Debian but Git at this team at Alioth) is 
currently broken: huge autoconf patch cause syntax error in shell code.


Would anyone mind that I fix it and ensure this kind of breakage can't 
happen again, using CDBS?



 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-11 Thread Alessio Treglia
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
 Would anyone mind that I fix it and ensure this kind of breakage can't
 happen again, using CDBS?


Could we solve these issue by using dh-autoreconf?

-- 
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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-11 Thread Jonas Smedegaard

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 03:18:50PM +0200, Alessio Treglia wrote:

On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
Would anyone mind that I fix it and ensure this kind of breakage 
can't happen again, using CDBS?




Could we solve these issue by using dh-autoreconf?


Well, you tell me.

I use CDBS, not short-form dh.

So we are not knowledgeable in short-form dh, but you are welcome to 
try fix it without my help.



Kind regards,

 - Jonas

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-11 Thread Andres Mejia
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
 On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 03:18:50PM +0200, Alessio Treglia wrote:

 On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:

 Would anyone mind that I fix it and ensure this kind of breakage can't
 happen again, using CDBS?


 Could we solve these issue by using dh-autoreconf?

 Well, you tell me.

 I use CDBS, not short-form dh.

 So we are not knowledgeable in short-form dh, but you are welcome to try
 fix it without my help.

I would prefer avoiding a build dependency on autotools in general.
I'll look into this.

 Kind regards,

  - Jonas

 --
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Andres Mejia

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Re: xvidcore broken - ok to use CDBS?

2010-09-11 Thread Andres Mejia
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Andres Mejia mcita...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:
 On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 03:18:50PM +0200, Alessio Treglia wrote:

 On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 2:19 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote:

 Would anyone mind that I fix it and ensure this kind of breakage can't
 happen again, using CDBS?


 Could we solve these issue by using dh-autoreconf?

 Well, you tell me.

 I use CDBS, not short-form dh.

 So we are not knowledgeable in short-form dh, but you are welcome to try
 fix it without my help.

 I would prefer avoiding a build dependency on autotools in general.
 I'll look into this.

Issue is now fixed. Seems to be some issue with autoconf outputting
badly formatted configure script, unless arguments to AC_CHECK_HEADER
and AC_CHECK_LIB are sandwiched between '[' and ']'.

Also, package dh-autoreconf could resolve this issue. However, as I
was saying before, I rather not build depend on autotools and have to
regenerate the build system on the buildd machines.

 Kind regards,

  - Jonas

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 --
 Regards,
 Andres Mejia




-- 
Regards,
Andres Mejia

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