Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Christopher-Mark Gilland 
Perfect!

Though a bit tedious, it should work.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: Slau Halatyn 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:36 PM
  Subject: Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!


  I'm going to describe the steps to identify beats. I'm not going to go 
through describing all of the things you should already know about selecting 
tracks, linking timeline and edit selections, positioning the insertion point, 
etc.

  You're going to be scrubbing or moving the insertion point to positions 
within the song and identifying those positions as specific bars. It'll be the 
first beat of each bar. From here on in, when I say "scrub or move insertion 
point to" a position in the timeline, it doesn't matter how you get there, as 
long as the insertion point is located at the beginning of each bar of music. 
This has nothing to do with bar numbers. You move to the points in the song 
based on your ears and then you specify the number based on math. It sounds 
more complicated than it is but only because it's more complicated to put it 
into words than to actually do it.

  OK, here we go:

  Put the insertion point at the beginning of the song. Press command+i to 
identify the beat. The Identify Beat dialog will open. Don't navigate the 
dialog because there's no need. Simply type the number 1 and press Return. 
You've now defined the first point in the song as bar 1, beat 1. Now get the 
insertion point to the beginning of bar 2. Press Command+i again and this time 
type 2 and press Return. You've now defined bar 2, beat 1.

  Continue this process. You don't necessarily have to do each and every bar. 
You can do every 4 bars or even 8 bars if you want. Thing is, if there are 
fluctuations in tempo, doing every bar is ultimately better because it'll 
follow tempo changes more closely. For stuff that is very steady, you can 
easily identify beats every 8 bars and be fine.

  Let me stress that you have to be precise with the bar numbers. If you 
inadvertently identify bar 27 then move 4 bars later but, instead of typing 31, 
you type 32, your bar numbers will be off and, therefore, your click will speed 
up inappropriately. You have to be absolutely exact in what you type.
  That should get you going.
  Slau


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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Slau Halatyn 
I'm going to describe the steps to identify beats. I'm not going to go through 
describing all of the things you should already know about selecting tracks, 
linking timeline and edit selections, positioning the insertion point, etc.

You're going to be scrubbing or moving the insertion point to positions within 
the song and identifying those positions as specific bars. It'll be the first 
beat of each bar. From here on in, when I say "scrub or move insertion point 
to" a position in the timeline, it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as 
the insertion point is located at the beginning of each bar of music. This has 
nothing to do with bar numbers. You move to the points in the song based on 
your ears and then you specify the number based on math. It sounds more 
complicated than it is but only because it's more complicated to put it into 
words than to actually do it.

OK, here we go:

Put the insertion point at the beginning of the song. Press command+i to 
identify the beat. The Identify Beat dialog will open. Don't navigate the 
dialog because there's no need. Simply type the number 1 and press Return. 
You've now defined the first point in the song as bar 1, beat 1. Now get the 
insertion point to the beginning of bar 2. Press Command+i again and this time 
type 2 and press Return. You've now defined bar 2, beat 1.

Continue this process. You don't necessarily have to do each and every bar. You 
can do every 4 bars or even 8 bars if you want. Thing is, if there are 
fluctuations in tempo, doing every bar is ultimately better because it'll 
follow tempo changes more closely. For stuff that is very steady, you can 
easily identify beats every 8 bars and be fine.

Let me stress that you have to be precise with the bar numbers. If you 
inadvertently identify bar 27 then move 4 bars later but, instead of typing 31, 
you type 32, your bar numbers will be off and, therefore, your click will speed 
up inappropriately. You have to be absolutely exact in what you type.
That should get you going.
Slau


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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Christopher-Mark Gilland 
K, how would this be done?
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: Chris Smart 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 10:01 PM
  Subject: Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!


  yeah, why not make the click conform to the music, rather than the 
  other way around?

  At 06:38 PM 9/19/2017, you wrote:
  >I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user 
  >might possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and 
  >then quantize to a fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might 
  >specifically work. Is it important that everything be at a constant 
  >tempo? I mean, you could easily create bar/beat markers and the 
  >click would simply follow along with the original subtle tempo changes.
  >>On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
  >><<mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:
  >>
  >>I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a 
  >>definite direct answer.
  >>
  >>I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though 
  >>without a click track. I have absolutely no control over this, as 
  >>it was done by a very famous country music artist.
  >>
  >>Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with 
  >>tempo. I therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 
  >>BPM. I'm not even sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only 
  >>using that as a random number. The point being, it may vary from 90 
  >>to say, 92 in a few places, or maybe 88 in others, etc. Point 
  >>being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the click track.
  >>
  >>What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow 
  >>tempo beat map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the 
  >>entire song is all the way through on that constant tempo. This 
  >>way, if I added a click track, then set it to the determined tempo, 
  >>the metronome would follow the whole way through and not get out of sync.
  >>
  >>Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it 
  >>be a royal pain in the ass to do?
  >>
  >>Chris.
  >>
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  "There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and 
  cats." - Albert Schweitzer 

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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Chris Smart 
Doesn't ProTools have a feature called Beat Detective, that basically 
detects transients?


At 09:23 PM 9/19/2017, you wrote:
I'd do it in Reaper, but I'm not totally advanced enough with it to 
know what I'm doing.


Also, how would I quantize things? I can't, as it's audio, not midi.

Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

<http://www.gshministry.org>http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
- Original Message -
From: <mailto:monkeypushe...@gmail.com>TheOreoMonster
To: <mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com>ptaccess@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

I imagine once he got the tempo following along to the subtle tempo 
changes if the right elastic audio algorithm is selected and then 
all the tempo changes selected and changed to the same value the 
audio should playback at the set tempo then.  Just going by what I 
remember from using ProTOols.  The really time  consuming way to do 
this would be to select every actual measure of the song, split it 
to its own clip, and quantize it to whatever tempo you want.  I have 
done something like what Chris is attempting to do in logic and 
these days I am a little bit more familiar with Flex time than 
ProTools elastic audio implementation so this was just suggestions 
based off how I have worked around  different tools not being 
accessible in different DAWs over the years.


On Sep 19, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Slau Halatyn 
<<mailto:slauhala...@gmail.com>slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote:


I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user 
might possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and 
then quantize to a fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might 
specifically work. Is it important that everything be at a constant 
tempo? I mean, you could easily create bar/beat markers and the 
click would simply follow along with the original subtle tempo changes.
On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<<mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a 
definite direct answer.


I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though 
without a click track. I have absolutely no control over this, as 
it was done by a very famous country music artist.


Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with 
tempo. I therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 
BPM. I'm not even sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only 
using that as a random number. The point being, it may vary from 
90 to say, 92 in a few places, or maybe 88 in others, etc. Point 
being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the click track.


What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow 
tempo beat map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the 
entire song is all the way through on that constant tempo. This 
way, if I added a click track, then set it to the determined 
tempo, the metronome would follow the whole way through and not 
get out of sync.


Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it 
be a royal pain in the ass to do?


Chris.

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"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and 
cats

Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Chris Smart 
yeah, why not make the click conform to the music, rather than the 
other way around?


At 06:38 PM 9/19/2017, you wrote:
I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user 
might possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and 
then quantize to a fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might 
specifically work. Is it important that everything be at a constant 
tempo? I mean, you could easily create bar/beat markers and the 
click would simply follow along with the original subtle tempo changes.
On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a 
definite direct answer.


I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though 
without a click track. I have absolutely no control over this, as 
it was done by a very famous country music artist.


Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with 
tempo. I therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 
BPM. I'm not even sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only 
using that as a random number. The point being, it may vary from 90 
to say, 92 in a few places, or maybe 88 in others, etc. Point 
being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the click track.


What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow 
tempo beat map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the 
entire song is all the way through on that constant tempo. This 
way, if I added a click track, then set it to the determined tempo, 
the metronome would follow the whole way through and not get out of sync.


Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it 
be a royal pain in the ass to do?


Chris.

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"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and 
cats." - Albert Schweitzer 


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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread TheOreoMonster 
Most DAWs have a way of using time compression and expansion to quantize audio 
these days. If Pro Tools and Reaper licenses Elastic Audio , Logic uses their 
FlexTime  algorithm. It can be done in reaper as well yes.  The problem is the 
efficient ways of doing this is A( very visual, and B( those tools may not be 
accessible so part of it is knowing the daw well enough and having enough time 
on your hands to figure out and execute said work arounds.  All 3 DAW’s can do 
it so pick your poison and get to work, or just pay a sighted counter part to 
do it for you. 

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 9:23 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'd do it in Reaper, but I'm not totally advanced enough with it to know what 
> I'm doing.
>  
> Also, how would I quantize things? I can't, as it's audio, not midi.
>  
> Chris.
> ---
> Christopher Gilland
> Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries
>  
> http://www.gshministry.org <http://www.gshministry.org/>
> (980) 500-9575
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: TheOreoMonster <mailto:monkeypushe...@gmail.com>
>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com <mailto:ptaccess@googlegroups.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!
>> 
>> I imagine once he got the tempo following along to the subtle tempo changes 
>> if the right elastic audio algorithm is selected and then all the tempo 
>> changes selected and changed to the same value the audio should playback at 
>> the set tempo then.  Just going by what I remember from using ProTOols.  The 
>> really time  consuming way to do this would be to select every actual 
>> measure of the song, split it to its own clip, and quantize it to whatever 
>> tempo you want.  I have done something like what Chris is attempting to do 
>> in logic and these days I am a little bit more familiar with Flex time than 
>> ProTools elastic audio implementation so this was just suggestions based off 
>> how I have worked around  different tools not being accessible in different 
>> DAWs over the years. 
>> 
>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:slauhala...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user might 
>>> possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and then quantize to 
>>> a fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might specifically work. Is it 
>>> important that everything be at a constant tempo? I mean, you could easily 
>>> create bar/beat markers and the click would simply follow along with the 
>>> original subtle tempo changes.
>>>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>>> <clgillan...@gmail.com <mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a 
>>>> definite direct answer.
>>>>  
>>>> I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though without a 
>>>> click track. I have absolutely no control over this, as it was done by a 
>>>> very famous country music artist.
>>>>  
>>>> Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with tempo. I 
>>>> therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 BPM. I'm not 
>>>> even sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only using that as a random 
>>>> number. The point being, it may vary from 90 to say, 92 in a few places, 
>>>> or maybe 88 in others, etc. Point being, the tempo isn't exactly totally 
>>>> on the click track.
>>>>  
>>>> What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow tempo beat 
>>>> map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the entire song is all the 
>>>> way through on that constant tempo. This way, if I added a click track, 
>>>> then set it to the determined tempo, the metronome would follow the whole 
>>>> way through and not get out of sync.
>>>>  
>>>> Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it be a 
>>>> royal pain in the ass to do?
>>>>  
>>>> Chris.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>>> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>>> <ma

Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Christopher-Mark Gilland 
I'd do it in Reaper, but I'm not totally advanced enough with it to know what 
I'm doing.

Also, how would I quantize things? I can't, as it's audio, not midi.

Chris.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: TheOreoMonster 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 8:22 PM
  Subject: Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!


  I imagine once he got the tempo following along to the subtle tempo changes 
if the right elastic audio algorithm is selected and then all the tempo changes 
selected and changed to the same value the audio should playback at the set 
tempo then.  Just going by what I remember from using ProTOols.  The really 
time  consuming way to do this would be to select every actual measure of the 
song, split it to its own clip, and quantize it to whatever tempo you want.  I 
have done something like what Chris is attempting to do in logic and these days 
I am a little bit more familiar with Flex time than ProTools elastic audio 
implementation so this was just suggestions based off how I have worked around  
different tools not being accessible in different DAWs over the years. 


On Sep 19, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote:


I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user might 
possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and then quantize to a 
fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might specifically work. Is it important 
that everything be at a constant tempo? I mean, you could easily create 
bar/beat markers and the click would simply follow along with the original 
subtle tempo changes.

  On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


  I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a 
definite direct answer.

  I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though without a 
click track. I have absolutely no control over this, as it was done by a very 
famous country music artist.

  Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with tempo. I 
therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 BPM. I'm not even 
sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only using that as a random number. 
The point being, it may vary from 90 to say, 92 in a few places, or maybe 88 in 
others, etc. Point being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the click track.

  What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow tempo beat 
map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the entire song is all the way 
through on that constant tempo. This way, if I added a click track, then set it 
to the determined tempo, the metronome would follow the whole way through and 
not get out of sync.

  Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it be a 
royal pain in the ass to do?

  Chris.


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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Christopher-Mark Gilland 
OK, then, how would I do that suggestion with the markers? I'd prefer it to be 
a constant tempo, but no, it's not mandatory.
---
Christopher Gilland
Co-founder of Genuine Safe Haven Ministries

http://www.gshministry.org
(980) 500-9575
  - Original Message - 
  From: Slau Halatyn 
  To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2017 6:38 PM
  Subject: Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!


  I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user might 
possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and then quantize to a 
fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might specifically work. Is it important 
that everything be at a constant tempo? I mean, you could easily create 
bar/beat markers and the click would simply follow along with the original 
subtle tempo changes.

On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
<clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote:


I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a definite 
direct answer.

I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though without a 
click track. I have absolutely no control over this, as it was done by a very 
famous country music artist.

Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with tempo. I 
therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 BPM. I'm not even 
sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only using that as a random number. 
The point being, it may vary from 90 to say, 92 in a few places, or maybe 88 in 
others, etc. Point being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the click track.

What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow tempo beat 
map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the entire song is all the way 
through on that constant tempo. This way, if I added a click track, then set it 
to the determined tempo, the metronome would follow the whole way through and 
not get out of sync.

Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it be a 
royal pain in the ass to do?

Chris.


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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread TheOreoMonster 
I imagine once he got the tempo following along to the subtle tempo changes if 
the right elastic audio algorithm is selected and then all the tempo changes 
selected and changed to the same value the audio should playback at the set 
tempo then.  Just going by what I remember from using ProTOols.  The really 
time  consuming way to do this would be to select every actual measure of the 
song, split it to its own clip, and quantize it to whatever tempo you want.  I 
have done something like what Chris is attempting to do in logic and these days 
I am a little bit more familiar with Flex time than ProTools elastic audio 
implementation so this was just suggestions based off how I have worked around  
different tools not being accessible in different DAWs over the years. 

> On Sep 19, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Slau Halatyn  wrote:
> 
> I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user might 
> possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and then quantize to a 
> fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might specifically work. Is it important 
> that everything be at a constant tempo? I mean, you could easily create 
> bar/beat markers and the click would simply follow along with the original 
> subtle tempo changes.
>> On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland > > wrote:
>> 
>> I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a definite 
>> direct answer.
>>  
>> I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though without a click 
>> track. I have absolutely no control over this, as it was done by a very 
>> famous country music artist.
>>  
>> Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with tempo. I 
>> therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 BPM. I'm not even 
>> sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only using that as a random 
>> number. The point being, it may vary from 90 to say, 92 in a few places, or 
>> maybe 88 in others, etc. Point being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the 
>> click track.
>>  
>> What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow tempo beat 
>> map the song then time stretch/collapse so that the entire song is all the 
>> way through on that constant tempo. This way, if I added a click track, then 
>> set it to the determined tempo, the metronome would follow the whole way 
>> through and not get out of sync.
>>  
>> Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it be a royal 
>> pain in the ass to do?
>>  
>> Chris.
>> 
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Re: Maybe covered before, but I really need help, Bigtime!

2017-09-19 Thread Slau Halatyn 
I know of no way of achieving this as a blind user. A sighted user might 
possibly be able to drop warp markers at each bar/beat and then quantize to a 
fixed tempo. I'm not sure how this might specifically work. Is it important 
that everything be at a constant tempo? I mean, you could easily create 
bar/beat markers and the click would simply follow along with the original 
subtle tempo changes.
> On Sep 19, 2017, at 4:04 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> I asked this a while back on list, but don't recall ever getting a definite 
> direct answer.
>  
> I have a song which has been professionally recorded, though without a click 
> track. I have absolutely no control over this, as it was done by a very 
> famous country music artist.
>  
> Obviously, though fairly steady, the song does waver a bit with tempo. I 
> therefore cannot set a constant 4/4 time tempo to say, 90 BPM. I'm not even 
> sure that is! the tempo for the song. I'm only using that as a random number. 
> The point being, it may vary from 90 to say, 92 in a few places, or maybe 88 
> in others, etc. Point being, the tempo isn't exactly totally on the click 
> track.
>  
> What I am aiming for here, is to find a way that I can somehow tempo beat map 
> the song then time stretch/collapse so that the entire song is all the way 
> through on that constant tempo. This way, if I added a click track, then set 
> it to the determined tempo, the metronome would follow the whole way through 
> and not get out of sync.
>  
> Is there a way in ProTools that I can accomplish this, even if it be a royal 
> pain in the ass to do?
>  
> Chris.
> 
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