Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: website and ipv6

[M.-A. Lemburg]

webmas...@python.org wrote:
> On 26/11/2010 12:46, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>
>> On Nov 26, 2010, at 6:35 AM, webmas...@python.org
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> I assume this is an end-user problem and that python.org
>>>  *can* be reached by ipv6?
>>
>> I've run into this a couple of times and the solution I was always
>> given was to disable IPv6 on my client system.
>>
> 
> Sure, but that doesn't answer the question. :-)

The answer is: yes, it can be reached via IPv6:

You can try one of the several looking glass servers around the
world: http://www.bgp4.as/looking-glasses

E.g. http://noc.eu.clara.net/lg.php

Router: US
Command: ping ip www.python.org


Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 82.94.164.162, timeout is 2 seconds:
!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 88/91/92 ms

> Michael
> 
>> Doug
>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>>  Original Message 
>>> Subject: website and ipv6
>>> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 08:56:40 +0100
>>> From: 
>>> To: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm unable to connect to site while I have ipv6 stack on my computer.
>>> You have  DNS record for site and that address is not responding.
>>>
>>> Please up http server on ipv6 address or delete dns record
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Piotr Pieprzycki
>>>
>>> ___
>>> pydotorg-www mailing list
>>> pydotorg-www@python.org 
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: website and ipv6

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
> 
> webmas...@python.org wrote:
>> On 26/11/2010 12:46, Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>>
>>> On Nov 26, 2010, at 6:35 AM, webmas...@python.org
>>> <mailto:webmas...@python.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I assume this is an end-user problem and that python.org
>>>> <http://python.org> *can* be reached by ipv6?
>>>
>>> I've run into this a couple of times and the solution I was always
>>> given was to disable IPv6 on my client system.
>>>
>>
>> Sure, but that doesn't answer the question. :-)
> 
> The answer is: yes, it can be reached via IPv6:
> 
> You can try one of the several looking glass servers around the
> world: http://www.bgp4.as/looking-glasses
> 
> E.g. http://noc.eu.clara.net/lg.php
> 
> Router: US
> Command: ping ip www.python.org
> 
> 
> Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 82.94.164.162, timeout is 2 seconds:
> !
> Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 88/91/92 ms

Sorry, cut-n-paste error.

Router: Germany
Command: ping ipv6 www.python.org

This data is to be considered confidentional.

Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 2001:888:2000:D::A2, timeout is 2 seconds:
!
Success rate is 100 percent (5/5), round-trip min/avg/max = 8/9/12 ms

Note that a lot of data centers, ISPs and end-user routers are not
prepared to handle IPv6.

>> Michael
>>
>>> Doug
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Michael
>>>>
>>>>  Original Message 
>>>> Subject: website and ipv6
>>>> Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 08:56:40 +0100
>>>> From: 
>>>> To: 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I'm unable to connect to site while I have ipv6 stack on my computer.
>>>> You have  DNS record for site and that address is not responding.
>>>>
>>>> Please up http server on ipv6 address or delete dns record
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Piotr Pieprzycki
>>>>
>>>> ___
>>>> pydotorg-www mailing list
>>>> pydotorg-www@python.org <mailto:pydotorg-www@python.org>
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> 

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Bugglet in one of the published resolutions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Aahz wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2011, Pat Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Could you please add the missing information from the board resolution page
>> at
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/resolutions/.
>>
>> Please insert Brett Cannon's name in the resolution on the web page just
>> like the resolution below:
>>
>> RESOLVED, that the PSF offers a USD 4,500 grant to Brett Cannon to work
>> full-time for a period of two months on Python core development as outlined
>> in the proposal PDF (
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/private/psf-board/attachments/20100614/62bbf3b8/attachment-0001.pdf).
> 
> Done!

Thank you.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Upgrades completed

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Jeff Rush wrote:
> On 03/01/2011 12:20 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>
>> This is what I still cannot reproduce. If I'm not logged in,
>> double-clicking on the main page does nothing to me (except to select some
>> piece of text).
> 
> I see the Richard's problem here as well.  The trick to seeing it is to
> be sure you are on a page that *can* be edited anonymously.  If you do
> it on the FrontPage or other page that -requires- a login, a
> double-click just selects text.
> 
> Try it on this anonymously-editable page:
> 
>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonConferences

This is a user preference in MoinMoin. If you're not logged in, a
default will be used and it's possible that this default was changed
in recent MoinMoin versions.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Upgrades completed

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Jeff Rush wrote:
>> On 03/01/2011 12:20 AM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>>
>>> This is what I still cannot reproduce. If I'm not logged in,
>>> double-clicking on the main page does nothing to me (except to select some
>>> piece of text).
>>
>> I see the Richard's problem here as well.  The trick to seeing it is to
>> be sure you are on a page that *can* be edited anonymously.  If you do
>> it on the FrontPage or other page that -requires- a login, a
>> double-click just selects text.
>>
>> Try it on this anonymously-editable page:
>>
>>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonConferences
> 
> This is a user preference in MoinMoin. If you're not logged in, a
> default will be used and it's possible that this default was changed
> in recent MoinMoin versions.

Here's the configuration option that needs to be adjusted:

http://moinmo.in/HelpOnConfiguration/UserPreferences

"edit_on_doubleclick" - Open editor on double click

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Accepted: RE: Python Developers

[M.-A. Lemburg]

s...@pobox.com wrote:
> 
> >> On the subject of links or other places, I'm actually pretty strongly
> >> in favour of removing them all. People looking for jobs know where to
> >> look for their own country, and I haven't seen any value in those
> >> side bar links to us as a community, they only appear to serve the
> >> people they link to having a high pagerank link pointing to sites
> >> which make them money ;-)
> 
> Michael> I don't see much value in the sidebar links either.
> 
> Agreed.  They had some marginal benefit several years ago when the job board
> first started and only had a couple postings, but the recruiters, HR people,
> and job hunters pretty much seem to all know this is the place to be now.  I
> suspect that all we are doing with the links is providing an opportunity for
> job hunters to waste time poking around those sites for nothing.
> 
> Chris, next time you're in there, please just rip them all out.

You're talking about these links:

* Careerbuilder.com
* ComputerJobs.com
* DICE
* Indeed (Aggregator)
* Juju.com (Aggregator)
* Monster.com
* SimplyHired (Aggregator)

... i.e. not the "Jobs" link itself, right ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Accepted: RE: Python Developers

[M.-A. Lemburg]

s...@pobox.com wrote:
> 
> MAL> You're talking about these links:
> 
> MAL> * Careerbuilder.com
> MAL> * ComputerJobs.com
> MAL> * DICE
> MAL> * Indeed (Aggregator)
> MAL> * Juju.com (Aggregator)
> MAL> * Monster.com
> MAL> * SimplyHired (Aggregator)
> 
> Correct.

Ok. +1.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] apache on ximinez

[M.-A. Lemburg]

"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Unless I'm reading the meaning of those log lines incorrectly that
>> means the apache timeout is insufficient to protect against dangling
>> client connections.
> 
> I have reduced the timeout to 30s now. If somebody thinks this is a bad
> idea, please let me know.

If I understand the Apache timeout setting correctly, then this would
prevent anyone with a slow connection from downloading larger files
from python.org:

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#timeout

I'll see whether I can test this using
http://www.uselessapplications.com/en/Application/FirefoxThrottle.aspx

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Re: [pydotorg-www] apache on ximinez

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>> Unless I'm reading the meaning of those log lines incorrectly that
>>> means the apache timeout is insufficient to protect against dangling
>>> client connections.
>>
>> I have reduced the timeout to 30s now. If somebody thinks this is a bad
>> idea, please let me know.
> 
> If I understand the Apache timeout setting correctly, then this would
> prevent anyone with a slow connection from downloading larger files
> from python.org:
> 
> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/core.html#timeout
> 
> I'll see whether I can test this using
> http://www.uselessapplications.com/en/Application/FirefoxThrottle.aspx

Looks like it's still working, even on a 7kB/s connection,
so I guess as long as the ACKs for the packages are received
within those 30 seconds, the connection will still be kept
open by Apache.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] apache on ximinez

[M.-A. Lemburg]

"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Am 07.04.2011 10:55, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
>> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>>>> Unless I'm reading the meaning of those log lines incorrectly that
>>>> means the apache timeout is insufficient to protect against dangling
>>>> client connections.
>>>
>>> I have reduced the timeout to 30s now. If somebody thinks this is a bad
>>> idea, please let me know.
>>
>> If I understand the Apache timeout setting correctly, then this would
>> prevent anyone with a slow connection from downloading larger files
>> from python.org:
> 
> I think you misunderstand. To see the timeout, you'd have to abstain
> from receiving any data within 30s. Even if you receive only a single
> packet, the timeout is reset. There is no need to complete the download
> within 30s.

Right. I found out when I testing using FFThrottle (handy little
gadget that is...).

Thanks,
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Re: [pydotorg-www] sync www and pycon.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
> Am 03.07.2011 18:14, schrieb Carl Karsten:
>> given nothing is at pycon.org:80, it would be nice if it hit www.pycon.org
>>
>> carl@dc10:~$ host pycon.org
>> pycon.org has address 66.35.62.89
>>
>> carl@dc10:~$ host www.pycon.org
>> www.pycon.org has address 192.67.63.140
> 
> I believe Marc-Andre is managing the pycon.org DNS. MAL?

Simply using the same IP address did not work, since the server
doesn't appear to have a ServerAlias setup.

I've now installed a redirect to the www.pycon.org server from
pycon.org. You should see the update in a couple of hours.

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[pydotorg-www] Fwd: [PSF-Members] Europython 2011 Massage Donation

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Can we get this fixed somehow on the donations page ?

http://www.python.org/psf/donations/

If you're still using the script I wrote a long time ago,
you'd only have to change a marshal dump file.

Thanks.

 Original Message 
Subject: [PSF-Members] Europython 2011 Massage Donation
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:53:15 +0200
From: Fabio Pliger 
To: PSF Members List 

One of the Europython 2011 organizers made a mistake when making the
donation to the PSF of the fund raised by Rob Collins and his amazing Python
Massage Team during the conference. He wrote  "Associazione Python Italia"
instead of "Europython 2011 Sponsored Massage" as asked by Rob. We are sorry
for that and I just wanted to point out here that the entire merit of this
donation goes to Rob an his team. They did their job with great passion
helping many pythonistas to have fun and relax their muscles before the
challenging conference dinner. I would say that I'd never have managed to
eat so much at the conference dinner without their help :)

Thanks Rob.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Could one of the list admins please turn the list archive
of the pydotorg-www list into a private one ?

I don't think it's a good idea to let our setup information leak
to the Internnet via search engines.

Thanks.

Thomas Wouters wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:19, Thomas Wouters  wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 06:37, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
>>
>>> Georg Brandl  writes:

 Do we have the resources to monitor it a little more carefully
 from now on until we found out what the cause is?  Could it be
 some kind of attack?
>>>
>>> It looks like power-cycling privileges should be given to more people
>>> (Georg for
>>> example :-)), to avoid potentially long outages likes this.
>>>
>>
>> The problem isn't really 'powercycle privileges', but 'sysadmins looking
>> after the machines'  (the former should come with the latter.) I haven't
>> been involved with the setup and maintenance of these machines, and I
>> shouldn't be the only one who can powercycle them -- everyone with root on
>> the machine really should be able to, and everyone on
>> roto-root...@wooz.org (the non-python.org list of admins) has received
>> instructions at one point or another (actually,  multiple times now.)
>>
> 
> 
> Barry, it seems many people with root access on (at least) dinsdale aren't
> on roto-rooters. We should probably fix that, and make sure everyone is
> added to ~psf/.ssh/authorized_keys on xs4all.nl so they can access the
> remote console/powerswitch as well (unless they have a reason not to want
> that access, I guess.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Hi Michael,

Michael Foord wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 09:56, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Could one of the list admins please turn the list archive
>> of the pydotorg-www list into a private one ?
>>
>> I don't think it's a good idea to let our setup information leak
>> to the Internnet via search engines.
> 
> The *point* of pydotorg-www is that it is a public list. Private
> information should be sent to pydotorg not pydotorg-www.

I was only talking about the archives, not making it a private
list altogether.

> Michael
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Thomas Wouters wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:19, Thomas Wouters  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 06:37, Antoine Pitrou 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Georg Brandl  writes:
>>>>>> Do we have the resources to monitor it a little more carefully
>>>>>> from now on until we found out what the cause is?  Could it be
>>>>>> some kind of attack?
>>>>> It looks like power-cycling privileges should be given to more people
>>>>> (Georg for
>>>>> example :-)), to avoid potentially long outages likes this.
>>>>>
>>>> The problem isn't really 'powercycle privileges', but 'sysadmins
>>>> looking
>>>> after the machines'  (the former should come with the latter.) I
>>>> haven't
>>>> been involved with the setup and maintenance of these machines, and I
>>>> shouldn't be the only one who can powercycle them -- everyone with
>>>> root on
>>>> the machine really should be able to, and everyone on
>>>> roto-root...@wooz.org (the non-python.org list of admins) has received
>>>> instructions at one point or another (actually,  multiple times now.)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Barry, it seems many people with root access on (at least) dinsdale
>>> aren't
>>> on roto-rooters. We should probably fix that, and make sure everyone is
>>> added to ~psf/.ssh/authorized_keys on xs4all.nl so they can access the
>>> remote console/powerswitch as well (unless they have a reason not to
>>> want
>>> that access, I guess.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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> 
> 

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> Done

Thanks.

> * M.-A. Lemburg :
>> Could one of the list admins please turn the list archive
>> of the pydotorg-www list into a private one ?
>>
>> I don't think it's a good idea to let our setup information leak
>> to the Internnet via search engines.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Thomas Wouters wrote:
>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 11:19, Thomas Wouters  wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 06:37, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Georg Brandl  writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do we have the resources to monitor it a little more carefully
>>>>>> from now on until we found out what the cause is?  Could it be
>>>>>> some kind of attack?
>>>>>
>>>>> It looks like power-cycling privileges should be given to more people
>>>>> (Georg for
>>>>> example :-)), to avoid potentially long outages likes this.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The problem isn't really 'powercycle privileges', but 'sysadmins looking
>>>> after the machines'  (the former should come with the latter.) I haven't
>>>> been involved with the setup and maintenance of these machines, and I
>>>> shouldn't be the only one who can powercycle them -- everyone with root on
>>>> the machine really should be able to, and everyone on
>>>> roto-root...@wooz.org (the non-python.org list of admins) has received
>>>> instructions at one point or another (actually,  multiple times now.)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Barry, it seems many people with root access on (at least) dinsdale aren't
>>> on roto-rooters. We should probably fix that, and make sure everyone is
>>> added to ~psf/.ssh/authorized_keys on xs4all.nl so they can access the
>>> remote console/powerswitch as well (unless they have a reason not to want
>>> that access, I guess.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> pydotorg-www mailing list
>>> pydotorg-www@python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>>
>> -- 
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> eGenix.com
>>
>> Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jul 25 2011)
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>>>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/
>> 
>>
>> ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! 
>>
>>
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Michael Foord wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 10:10, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Michael Foord wrote:
>>> On 25/07/2011 09:56, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>> Could one of the list admins please turn the list archive
>>>> of the pydotorg-www list into a private one ?
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's a good idea to let our setup information leak
>>>> to the Internnet via search engines.
>>> The *point* of pydotorg-www is that it is a public list. Private
>>> information should be sent to pydotorg not pydotorg-www.
>> I was only talking about the archives, not making it a private
>> list altogether.
> Sure, but losing public archives, and the ability to use search engines
> to search the archives is a big loss.
> 
> We don't make the archives of other public lists private because someone
> sent an email they shouldn't have done - in fact we generally refuse to
> even remove those emails from the archive.

Right, but this mailing list is special in the sense that it
discusses an important piece of the Python infrastructure.

Unlike other mailing lists where such leakage usually only has impact
on the one accidentally sending it, it can cause potential harm to
the PSF servers in case of this list.

BTW: How often do you actually search on this mailing list ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Michael Foord wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 11:52, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Michael Foord wrote:
>>> On 25/07/2011 10:10, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>> Hi Michael,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Foord wrote:
>>>>> On 25/07/2011 09:56, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>>>> Could one of the list admins please turn the list archive
>>>>>> of the pydotorg-www list into a private one ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think it's a good idea to let our setup information leak
>>>>>> to the Internnet via search engines.
>>>>> The *point* of pydotorg-www is that it is a public list. Private
>>>>> information should be sent to pydotorg not pydotorg-www.
>>>> I was only talking about the archives, not making it a private
>>>> list altogether.
>>> Sure, but losing public archives, and the ability to use search engines
>>> to search the archives is a big loss.
>>>
>>> We don't make the archives of other public lists private because someone
>>> sent an email they shouldn't have done - in fact we generally refuse to
>>> even remove those emails from the archive.
>> Right, but this mailing list is special in the sense that it
>> discusses an important piece of the Python infrastructure.
>>
>> Unlike other mailing lists where such leakage usually only has impact
>> on the one accidentally sending it, it can cause potential harm to
>> the PSF servers in case of this list.
> 
> Does the information leaked present a real risk?

If you look through the archives, it's very easy to find out about
the infrastructure setup being used to run python.org. Take e.g.
this thread as example:

http://markmail.org/thread/kcxkjbesmbweaaj6#query:+page:1+mid:kcxkjbesmbweaaj6+state:results

Thomas' email has revealed more information in that direction.
It's not a direct risk, though.

> I have a very strong
> preference for keeping the archives public unless we absolutely have to.
> I'd rather offending messages were scrubbed from the archive than the
> list archives made private.

That's not possible, I'm afraid, since the list archives on python.org
are not only being picked up by Google, but also other sites which
then co-host them, e.g.

http://markmail.org/search/?q=pydotorg-www#query:pydotorg-www
list%3Aorg.python.pydotorg-www+page:1+state:facets
http://www.mail-archive.com/pydotorg-www@python.org/info.html
http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.pydotorg-www

>> BTW: How often do you actually search on this mailing list ?
>>
> 
> What I often do is browse the archives, having to log in is a nuisance.
> I also link to discussions on the list - making them private effectively
> prevents that as people have to join the  list just to view the
> archives. Occasionally when I can't find a particular discussion I use
> search to find it.

Well, then what do you recommend to keep such infos off the net ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Michael Foord wrote:
> On 25/07/2011 12:26, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> I have a very strong
>>> preference for keeping the archives public unless we absolutely have to.
>>> I'd rather offending messages were scrubbed from the archive than the
>>> list archives made private.
>> That's not possible, I'm afraid, since the list archives on python.org
>> are not only being picked up by Google, but also other sites which
>> then co-host them, e.g.
>>
>> http://markmail.org/search/?q=pydotorg-www#query:pydotorg-www
>> list%3Aorg.python.pydotorg-www+page:1+state:facets
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/pydotorg-www@python.org/info.html
>> http://blog.gmane.org/gmane.comp.python.pydotorg-www
>>
> That's only if the archives are left long enough for the spiders to pick
> them up. Not guaranteed to prevent information leakage but may be
> sufficient in individual cases.

It seems that those sites are directly signed up to the mailing
list, so there is no lag which could be used to scrub such
messages.

Making the archives private wouldn't solve this either.

>>>> BTW: How often do you actually search on this mailing list ?
>>>>
>>> What I often do is browse the archives, having to log in is a nuisance.
>>> I also link to discussions on the list - making them private effectively
>>> prevents that as people have to join the  list just to view the
>>> archives. Occasionally when I can't find a particular discussion I use
>>> search to find it.
>> Well, then what do you recommend to keep such infos off the net ?
>>
> Not posting them to a public list! Plus having policies and security
> infrastructure in place that does not allow harm due to accidental
> revealing of information.
> 
> This could just as easily have been posted to python-list or some other
> public list, we should have policies in place to cope with this.
> Whatever those policies are should apply to this list.

True. I'm just not sure how this could be done, though. The only
way appears to be moderation, but that's not really feasible without
a whole team of moderators.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> If you look through the archives, it's very easy to find out about
>> the infrastructure setup being used to run python.org. Take e.g.
>> this thread as example:
>>
>> http://markmail.org/thread/kcxkjbesmbweaaj6#query:+page:1+mid:kcxkjbesmbweaaj6+state:results
> 
> This information is also published in the Wiki, and deliberately so.
> 
> There is nothing secret about the setup of python.org, except for the
> actual passwords.

So you deliberately make it easy for potential attackers to
find out about everything they need to know in order take over
the site.

Could you explain the reasons behind this ?

While having documentation of the setup is essential, I don't think
making that documentation available outside the group of administrators
is a good thing to do.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> So you deliberately make it easy for potential attackers to
>> find out about everything they need to know in order take over
>> the site.
>>
>> Could you explain the reasons behind this ?
> 
> This information is not meant for attackers, but for people contributing
> to the maintenance of the site. It may also help
> attackers, but only a little so, since they can easily gather the
> information, anyway.
> 
> You seem to favor obscurity as a means of security. Please understand
> that this gives a false sense of security.

No, not really. Not having the information readily available doesn't
make it more secure (obscurity never increases security), but it does
make it harder, and thus, raises the bar for script-kiddies.

>> While having documentation of the setup is essential, I don't think
>> making that documentation available outside the group of administrators
>> is a good thing to do.
> 
> I disagree. Administrators tend to forget where the information is
> stored, and how to access it; they are also uncertain as to whether
> certain aspects are documented at all. Giving Google access to this
> information (or any other search engine) simplifies maintenance.

A wiki on a separate server would make that information
just as easily available, so I don't really buy into that
argument of unorganized administrators (which I don't think
we have on python.org).

The PSF has a Trac installation that could be used for this.
It's hosted on a separate managed servers, so the information would
be available even if python.org goes down.

I can create an instance and user accounts for you to use.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> I disagree. Administrators tend to forget where the information is
>> stored, and how to access it; they are also uncertain as to whether
>> certain aspects are documented at all. Giving Google access to this
>> information (or any other search engine) simplifies maintenance.
> 
> A wiki on a separate server would make that information
> just as easily available, so I don't really buy into that
> argument of unorganized administrators (which I don't think
> we have on python.org).
> 
> The PSF has a Trac installation that could be used for this.
> It's hosted on a separate managed servers, so the information would
> be available even if python.org goes down.
> 
> I can create an instance and user accounts for you to use.

Could someone please point me to the wiki pages that already
exist for this and any other information that may be useful ?

I'll then go ahead and setup a Trac instance for the admins to
use. I'd also need a list of current admins to setup their
accounts.

Aside: I guess that would even help those mythical "unorganized"
admins, since they'd only need to bookmark a single URL rather than
remember what to search for on Google ;-)

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Repeated outages of python.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

"Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Could someone please point me to the wiki pages that already
>> exist for this and any other information that may be useful ?
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Admin

Thanks.

>> I'd also need a list of current admins
> 
> That list will be difficult to produce.

Well, then let's start with a list of all admins, including
no longer active ones.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] changing DNS for fi.pycon.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Hi Doug,

please tell him to have the previous organizers send me their OK to
pass on the subdomain and to provide a new CNAME alias.
The subdomain fi.pycon.org is currently aliased to conference.syneus.fi.

Thanks.

Doug Hellmann wrote:
> I have received a request to update the DNS entries for fi.pycon.org. I can 
> handle the technical aspects of that change, but wanted to make sure I was 
> doing enough to verify the identity of the person asking for the change. Do 
> we have procedures for this sort of thing? I have suggested creating a page 
> on the old server with a name that doesn't exist right now. Is there 
> something else I can/should do? (Or can anyone vouch for Jyrki and let us 
> skip this step?)
> 
> Thanks,
> Doug
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Jyrki Pulliainen 
>> Date: August 2, 2011 3:17:14 PM EDT
>> To: Doug Hellmann 
>> Subject: Re: Migrating fi.pycon.org under App engine
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Doug Hellmann  
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Jyrki Pulliainen wrote:
>>>
 Hi!

 As mentioned to ThePSF in Twitter before, we're in process migrating
 fi.pycon.org under Google Apps domain. We need a few DNS changes to do
 it. First, we would need the TXT-entry to verify our domain to Google
 and then, later on, the DNS entries should be set to point in to the
 App engine.

 How should we proceed? What would be the most convenient way for you?

 Sincerely,
 Jyrki Pulliainen, Treasury of Python Finland
>>>
>>> Hi, Jyrki,
>>>
>>> I can help you make the DNS changes, but I don't know anything about 
>>> AppEngine. If you can provide me with instructions like "Make the $R record 
>>> for the domain $D have value $V" then I can do the editing.
>>>
>>> Will that work?
>>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Yeah, that'll do the trick. I can tell you the required fields :)
>>
>>> Since I don't know you (yet!), we should also do some minimal verification 
>>> that you have control of the current fi.pycon.org site. Can you create a 
>>> "doug.html" page and add some content? It does not need to be fancy, it 
>>> will just prove that you can create a new page on that domain and reassure 
>>> me that I'm not about to steal it away from the "real" owner. :-)
>>
>> I totally understand! I just need to contact the previous owner and
>> ask them to put the document there (last year's Python was organized
>> by a local company, they handed all the domain, twitter and facebook
>> stuff to us now for this year's event). I'll contact you when it's
>> done, if it's ok?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jyrki
> 
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Re: [pydotorg-www] changing DNS for fi.pycon.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Doug Hellmann wrote:
> From what I understand, it's not just a CNAME change (they are hooking up to 
> AppEngine).
> 
> Do you know the names of the previous organizers?

The website says: http://www.syneus.fi/. Just have Jyrki contact
me and I can then take from there (I manage the pycon.org domain).

BTW: I'm not sure whether AppEngine allows CNAME redirection.

Thanks.

> Doug
> 
> On Aug 2, 2011, at 5:13 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
>> Hi Doug,
>>
>> please tell him to have the previous organizers send me their OK to
>> pass on the subdomain and to provide a new CNAME alias.
>> The subdomain fi.pycon.org is currently aliased to conference.syneus.fi.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>> I have received a request to update the DNS entries for fi.pycon.org. I can 
>>> handle the technical aspects of that change, but wanted to make sure I was 
>>> doing enough to verify the identity of the person asking for the change. Do 
>>> we have procedures for this sort of thing? I have suggested creating a page 
>>> on the old server with a name that doesn't exist right now. Is there 
>>> something else I can/should do? (Or can anyone vouch for Jyrki and let us 
>>> skip this step?)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>> From: Jyrki Pulliainen 
>>>> Date: August 2, 2011 3:17:14 PM EDT
>>>> To: Doug Hellmann 
>>>> Subject: Re: Migrating fi.pycon.org under App engine
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Doug Hellmann  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 2, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Jyrki Pulliainen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As mentioned to ThePSF in Twitter before, we're in process migrating
>>>>>> fi.pycon.org under Google Apps domain. We need a few DNS changes to do
>>>>>> it. First, we would need the TXT-entry to verify our domain to Google
>>>>>> and then, later on, the DNS entries should be set to point in to the
>>>>>> App engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How should we proceed? What would be the most convenient way for you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Jyrki Pulliainen, Treasury of Python Finland
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Jyrki,
>>>>>
>>>>> I can help you make the DNS changes, but I don't know anything about 
>>>>> AppEngine. If you can provide me with instructions like "Make the $R 
>>>>> record for the domain $D have value $V" then I can do the editing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Will that work?
>>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that'll do the trick. I can tell you the required fields :)
>>>>
>>>>> Since I don't know you (yet!), we should also do some minimal 
>>>>> verification that you have control of the current fi.pycon.org site. Can 
>>>>> you create a "doug.html" page and add some content? It does not need to 
>>>>> be fancy, it will just prove that you can create a new page on that 
>>>>> domain and reassure me that I'm not about to steal it away from the 
>>>>> "real" owner. :-)
>>>>
>>>> I totally understand! I just need to contact the previous owner and
>>>> ask them to put the document there (last year's Python was organized
>>>> by a local company, they handed all the domain, twitter and facebook
>>>> stuff to us now for this year's event). I'll contact you when it's
>>>> done, if it's ok?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jyrki
>>>
>>> ___
>>> pydotorg-www mailing list
>>> pydotorg-www@python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
>>
>> -- 
>> Marc-Andre Lemburg
>> eGenix.com
>>
>> Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 02 2011)
>>>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/
>> 
>>
>> ::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database

Re: [pydotorg-www] changing DNS for fi.pycon.org

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Doug Hellmann wrote:
> 
> On Aug 2, 2011, at 5:29 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
>> Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>> From what I understand, it's not just a CNAME change (they are hooking up 
>>> to AppEngine).
>>>
>>> Do you know the names of the previous organizers?
>>
>> The website says: http://www.syneus.fi/. Just have Jyrki contact
>> me and I can then take from there (I manage the pycon.org domain).
> 
> Hmm, I thought it was on the XS4ALL console, but I guess not. I sent him 
> email telling Jyrki to contact you directly.

Thanks.

> Why are those domains managed separately?

Because I'm the owner of the pycon.org domain and the DNS for
pycon.org is managed by eGenix.

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Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 03 2011)
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: [PSF-Members] Europython 2011 Massage Donation

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Can we get this fixed somehow on the donations page ?
> 
> http://www.python.org/psf/donations/
> 
> If you're still using the script I wrote a long time ago,
> you'd only have to change a marshal dump file.

Thanks to whoever made the change happen :-)

>  Original Message 
> Subject: [PSF-Members] Europython 2011 Massage Donation
> Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:53:15 +0200
> From: Fabio Pliger 
> To: PSF Members List 
> 
> One of the Europython 2011 organizers made a mistake when making the
> donation to the PSF of the fund raised by Rob Collins and his amazing Python
> Massage Team during the conference. He wrote  "Associazione Python Italia"
> instead of "Europython 2011 Sponsored Massage" as asked by Rob. We are sorry
> for that and I just wanted to point out here that the entire merit of this
> donation goes to Rob an his team. They did their job with great passion
> helping many pythonistas to have fun and relax their muscles before the
> challenging conference dinner. I would say that I'd never have managed to
> eat so much at the conference dinner without their help :)
> 
> Thanks Rob.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[pydotorg-www] Managing infrastructure information: PSF Systems Trac instance

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Hi all,

I've setup a new Trac instance for systems management and filled
the wiki with the data I could find in the public wiki and on the
mailing lists:

https://psf.projecthut.com/trac/psfsystems/wiki

This instance is meant to be used as central source of information
for system administration and also to manage the migration to
a new infrastructure.

The information from the public wiki has been migrated to the
above Trac and will eventually be removed from the public wiki
to prevent having changes being made in two places.

I've created logins for Doug, Noah and Martin.

Anyone who is administering the servers should get access to
the Trac instance, so please email me your GPG keys so that
I can send the passwords in a separate email.

At the same time, I'd like to collect information about who
is managing which parts of the python.org infrastructure,
so please also include that information in the email.

Thanks,
-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 04 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! 


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Re: [pydotorg-www] Managing infrastructure information: PSF Systems Trac instance

[M.-A. Lemburg]

s...@pobox.com wrote:
> 
> MAL> I've setup a new Trac instance for systems management and filled
> MAL> the wiki with the data I could find in the public wiki and on the
> MAL> mailing lists:
> 
> MAL> https://psf.projecthut.com/trac/psfsystems/wiki
> 
> MAL> This instance is meant to be used as central source of information
> MAL> for system administration and also to manage the migration to a new
> MAL> infrastructure.
> 
> I can't access it.

As I wrote: I need to create user accounts for all admins.
Could you send me you GPG key ?

> Can you explain what aspects of the python.org
> management it is supposed to cover? 

It is supposed to collect all information about the servers and
their setup.

> For instance, I manage the SpamBayes
> setup on mail.python.org.  Does the above include that info?

Yes.

-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 04 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
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::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! 


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Re: [pydotorg-www] Managing infrastructure information: PSF Systems Trac instance

[M.-A. Lemburg]

R. David Murray wrote:
> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:15:15 +0200, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>> Anyone who is administering the servers should get access to
>> the Trac instance, so please email me your GPG keys so that
>> I can send the passwords in a separate email.
>>
>> At the same time, I'd like to collect information about who
>> is managing which parts of the python.org infrastructure,
>> so please also include that information in the email.
> 
> I would suggest that you broadcast this email more widely than pydotorg,
> then.  I don't follow this list closely and only happened to see this
> post by accident.  The infrastructure mailing list is probably a good
> candidate (I'm surprised there wasn't a posting about this there ahead
> of time).  (Or did I just miss it somehow?)

I've sent a copy to the infrastructure list.

> I help Martin manage bugs.python.org.  Ezio Mellotti is also doing
> work there, under our supervision.  I also have a root-enabled login on
> Dinsdale in order to help Antoine Pitrou with the buildbot infrastructure,
> but Antoine has been handling that by himself as it turns out.

Thanks.

> I have an ssh key to log in to these systems, but no GPG key.  Will the
> ssh key suffice?

I just need to send you the password somehow. If nothing else works,
I can send it via plain-text email.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 04 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! 


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Re: [pydotorg-www] Managing infrastructure information: PSF Systems Trac instance

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Michael Foord wrote:
> On 04/08/2011 15:57, R. David Murray wrote:
>> On Thu, 04 Aug 2011 14:15:15 +0200, "M.-A. Lemburg" 
>> wrote:
>>> Anyone who is administering the servers should get access to
>>> the Trac instance, so please email me your GPG keys so that
>>> I can send the passwords in a separate email.
>>>
>>> At the same time, I'd like to collect information about who
>>> is managing which parts of the python.org infrastructure,
>>> so please also include that information in the email.
> 
> I administer the Planet Python and help with website maintenance, I'm on
> the webmaster alias (in scope?) and I'm also on roto-routers. I used to
> have a login on dinsdale for website administration but my ssh key
> wasn't updated when I requested so that login no longer works.

Thanks.

> I also have no GPG key.

I'll send the password in private email then.

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Aug 04 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/


::: Try our new mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! 


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Re: [pydotorg-www] outage report

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Doug Hellmann wrote:
> I've had an outage report for python.org via twitter. It's working for me, 
> but the reporter says "traceroute drops at te5-4.swcolo2.3d12.xs4all.net" and 
> they aren't able to connect to the site.
> 
> Is anyone else seeing an issue?

No.

In such cases, I'd suggest to use a tool like Looking Glass to check the
availability from many different parts of the world:

http://www.traceroute.org/

e.g.
http://lg.telia.net/
http://lg.as6453.net/lg/
http://www.as3257.net/lg/

Here's a trace from Honk Kong:

traceroute to python.org (82.94.164.162), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  sjo-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.247.192)  175.920 ms las-bb1-link.telia.net 
(213.155.130.36)
154.836 ms  154.896 ms
 2  ash-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.248.189)  236.307 ms ash-bb1-link.telia.net 
(213.248.80.9)
235.799 ms ash-bb1-link.telia.net (213.155.130.210)  223.354 ms
 3  ldn-bb1-link.telia.net (80.91.251.206)  312.106 ms ldn-bb1-link.telia.net 
(80.91.246.69)
319.439 ms ldn-bb2-link.telia.net (213.248.65.209)  291.870 ms
 4  ldn-b5-link.telia.net (80.91.246.145)  301.725 ms ldn-b5-link.telia.net 
(80.91.250.168)  305.796
ms ldn-b5-link.telia.net (80.91.246.145)  301.602 ms
 5  ldn-s10-rou-1041.UK.eurorings.net (134.222.249.77)  301.984 ms  336.106 ms  
311.725 ms
 6  ldn-s1-rou-1021.UK.eurorings.net (134.222.231.245) [AS  286]  312.548 ms  
309.749 ms  312.467 ms
 MPLS Label=303744 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
 7  asd2-rou-1022.NL.eurorings.net (134.222.229.217) [AS  286]  299.655 ms  
306.688 ms  319.113 ms
 MPLS Label=307184 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
 8  asd2-rou-1042.NL.eurorings.net (134.222.230.33) [AS  286]  317.329 ms  
310.280 ms  317.292 ms
 9  134.222.97.18 (134.222.97.18) [AS  286]  321.213 ms  307.361 ms  322.297 ms
10  0.ae2.xr4.1d12.xs4all.net (194.109.5.82) [AS  3265]  309.896 ms  299.809 ms 
 319.265 ms
11  te5-4.swcolo2.3d12.xs4all.net (194.109.12.34) [AS  3265]  307.147 ms  
306.947 ms  309.826 ms
12  dinsdale.python.org (82.94.164.162) [AS  3265]  325.616 ms  316.737 ms  
310.736 ms


-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 27 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/

2011-10-04: PyCon DE 2011, Leipzig, Germany 7 days to go

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Re: [pydotorg-www] FWD: adding a link on the Python download page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Aahz wrote:
> What do people think?  I'm -0 because I've never heard of this before
> (they haven't been posting to c.l.py.announce) and because they're using
> 2.7.1 more than three months after 2.7.2 was released.

I'm +1 on this. The more options available for the user, the
better.

BTW: You could ping them about the issues you've mentioned. I'm
sure they'd listen.

> - Forwarded message from Erik Janssens  -
> 
>> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2011 13:59:15 +0200
>> From: Erik Janssens 
>> To: webmas...@python.org
>> Subject: adding a link on the Python download page
>> Reply-To: erik.janss...@conceptive.be
>>
>> Dear,
>>
>> The download page on the Python website :
>>
>> http://www.python.org/download/
>>
>> Contains links to a number of re-packaged
>> python distributions.
>>
>> Would it be possible to include a link
>> to our distribution as well, the
>>
>> 'Conceptive Python SDK'  which targets
>> business, desktop and database applications.
>>
>> it includes recent builds of Qt, PyQt,
>> matplotlib, database drivers, etc.
>>
>> today, only the windows build is availabe,
>> but this will change.
>>
>> The link is :
>>
>> http://www.conceptive.be/python-sdk.html
>>
>> Thank you very much and best regards,
>>
>> Erik
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> 

-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Oct 02 2011)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/

2011-10-04: PyCon DE 2011, Leipzig, Germany 2 days to go

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Re: [pydotorg-www] FWD: adding a link on the Python download page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Chris Withers wrote:
> On 02/10/2011 21:58, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Aahz wrote:
>>> What do people think?  I'm -0 because I've never heard of this before
>>> (they haven't been posting to c.l.py.announce) and because they're using
>>> 2.7.1 more than three months after 2.7.2 was released.
>>
>> I'm +1 on this. The more options available for the user, the
>> better.
> 
> That doesn't follow for me.
> Why are more options better?
> 
> "There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it."
> 
> Having a bucketload of linked distros is just going to be confusing for
> new users...

All those distributions target special user groups and they
usually come with different options for support and maintenance,
which the standard distribution does not provide.

BTW: The above Zen quote is often misunderstood. It says that there
should be one *obvious* way to do things. That doesn't exclude having
other options available as well and the obvious choice for one person
may very well not be the obvious one for another person.
Having choices available is a good thing.

-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Oct 03 2011)
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Re: [pydotorg-www] do you still accept success stories?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Stephan Deibel wrote:
> On 10/5/11 7:55 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
>> Pythonology administers the "Python Success Stories" section of the
>> Python.org website, so we aren't currently accepting new success stories.
> 
> Actually, just so everyone cc-ed here knows:  I no longer administer the
> pages on python.org (or any Python Success Stories pages).  I just don't
> have the time to do this anymore.  If someone wants to revive that and
> start accepting new stories again, I can provide the records I kept for
> the existing stories.

Please submit your success stories to our new project, the Python
brochure project:

http://brochure.getpython.info/learn-more

We are collecting success stories for the Python brochure, but will
also put them on the support website and are aiming at later merging
them back into the python.org listing of success stories or creating
a new home for them under getpython.info.

Thanks,
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Oct 08 2011)
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Re: [pydotorg-www] do you still accept success stories?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Aahz wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 09, 2011, Michael Foord wrote:
>> On 8 Oct 2011, at 12:16, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> Stephan Deibel wrote:
>>>> On 10/5/11 7:55 PM, Michael Foord wrote:
>>>>> Pythonology administers the "Python Success Stories" section of the
>>>>> Python.org website, so we aren't currently accepting new success stories.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, just so everyone cc-ed here knows:  I no longer administer the
>>>> pages on python.org (or any Python Success Stories pages).  I just don't
>>>> have the time to do this anymore.  If someone wants to revive that and
>>>> start accepting new stories again, I can provide the records I kept for
>>>> the existing stories.
>>>
>>> Please submit your success stories to our new project, the Python
>>> brochure project:
>>>
>>> http://brochure.getpython.info/learn-more
>>>
>>> We are collecting success stories for the Python brochure, but will
>>> also put them on the support website and are aiming at later merging
>>> them back into the python.org listing of success stories or creating
>>> a new home for them under getpython.info.
>>
>> We should probably update the python.org success story page to point
>> to the brochure (especially for submission).
> 
> Updated
> http://www.python.org/about/success/

Thanks, Aahz.

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Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Oct 31 2011)
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Internal Server Error while reverting spam

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Paul Boddie wrote:
> On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 s...@pobox.com wrote:
>> anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type
>> wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could adjust
>> web-server configuration accordingly.
>>
>> There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and Jython
>> wikis.  At least there used to be.  Now I see the selector page briefly,
>> then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki.
> 
> Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes sense 
> to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must 
> admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm sorry if 
> I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.

The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are
several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:

 * Python wiki
 * Jython  wiki
 * PSF wiki

and perhaps more.

>> As a person who monitors both wikis (at least for spam postings, if not
>> actual content), I'm a little disappointed that I can no longer go to
>> wiki.python.org then select which wiki I want to dive into.

Hmm, I still get the list (without the PSF wiki) as usual. Perhaps
the change was reverted ?

> Doesn't wiki.jython.org direct you to the Jython Wiki?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Internal Server Error while reverting spam

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
> On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>>
>> Paul Boddie wrote:
>>> On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 s...@pobox.com wrote:
>>>> anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type
>>>> wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody anatoly> could
> adjust
>>>> web-server configuration accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and
> Jython
>>>> wikis.  At least there used to be.  Now I see the selector page
> briefly,
>>>> then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the Python wiki.
>>>
>>> Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it makes
> sense
>>> to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was changed. I must
>>> admit that I haven't been following this list for some time, so I'm
> sorry if
>>> I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
>>
>> The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are
>> several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
>>
>>  * Python wiki
>>  * Jython  wiki
>>  * PSF wiki
>>
>> and perhaps more.
> 
> That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as
> exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to make
> the change.

Could you elaborate a bit ? What are those "exceptions" ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
>>
>>  On Dec 2, 2011 11:07 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>>>
>>> Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
>>>> On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul Boddie wrote:
>>>>>> On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 s...@pobox.com wrote:
>>>>>>> anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type
>>>>>>> wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody
>>>>>>> anatoly> could adjust web-server configuration accordingly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and
>>>>>>> Jython wikis.  At least there used to be.  Now I see the selector
>> page
>>>>>>> briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the
>>>>>>> Python wiki.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it
>> makes
>>>>>> sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was
>> changed.
>>>>>> I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time,
>> so I'm
>>>>>> sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are
>>>>> several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
>>>>>
>>>>>  * Python wiki
>>>>>  * Jython  wiki
>>>>>  * PSF wiki
>>>>>
>>>>> and perhaps more.
>>>>
>>>> That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as
>>>> exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to
>> make
>>>> the change.
>>>
>>> Could you elaborate a bit ? What are those "exceptions" ?
>>
>> It's not a technical term, I meant it literally. Basically you can
>> configure the web server so that the urls of those other wikis lead to the
>> respective applications, while all other urls lead to the default python
>> wiki. I think it doesn't even require rewrite rules, as scriptalias
>> directives are evaluated in order of occurence. We would of course still
>> have a redirect from the old /moin url.
>>
> 
> If there are no objections, I would say - Radomir, go for it. =)
> To summarize what do we want to do and how it will behave after the
> migration:
> 
>  * wiki.python.org/PageName - is a new shorter way of accessing Python
> knowledge base
>  * wiki.jython.org/PageName - is a new shorter way to access Jython pages
>  * wiki.python.org/moin/(.*)$ - will be a permanent redirect to
> wiki.python.org/\1 to save external links from breaking
>  * wiki.python.org/jython/(.*)$ - the same to  wiki.jython.org/\1

I don't think this will technically work with MoinMoin, since it
needs the URL prefix to distinguish between the wiki instances
in a farm installation.

We could have a redirect from anything not a wiki instance
prefix to wiki.python.org/moin/\1, but the wiki pages themselves
would still need to use the /moin/ prefix.

BTW: What's so bad about the prefix advertising the use of
MoinMoin for the Python.org wiki ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:01, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 1:13 PM, Radomir Dopieralski 
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  On Dec 2, 2011 11:07 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
>>>>>> On Dec 2, 2011 10:12 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul Boddie wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Friday 02 December 2011 03:00:29 s...@pobox.com wrote:
>>>>>>>>> anatoly> And it could be a little easier to type
>>>>>>>>> wiki.python.org/MelbournePUG if mysterious somebody
>>>>>>>>> anatoly> could adjust web-server configuration accordingly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There's another layer in the URL which distinguishes the Python and
>>>>>>>>> Jython wikis.  At least there used to be.  Now I see the selector
>>>> page
>>>>>>>>> briefly, then it redirects me to the last page I was viewing on the
>>>>>>>>> Python wiki.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, I think there was a discussion about this: in principle, it
>>>> makes
>>>>>>>> sense to eliminate the "/moin" part, and I guess that this was
>>>> changed.
>>>>>>>> I must admit that I haven't been following this list for some time,
>>>> so I'm
>>>>>>>> sorry if I'm not up-to-date with what people have been doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The /moin part is still there and AFAIK is needed, since there are
>>>>>>> several instances of moin running on the wiki.python.org domain:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  * Python wiki
>>>>>>>  * Jython  wiki
>>>>>>>  * PSF wiki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and perhaps more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not a problem, those urls can be made to work just fine as
>>>>>> exceptions. I can write apropriate rules if there is a decission to
>>>> make
>>>>>> the change.
>>>>>
>>>>> Could you elaborate a bit ? What are those "exceptions" ?
>>>>
>>>> It's not a technical term, I meant it literally. Basically you can
>>>> configure the web server so that the urls of those other wikis lead to the
>>>> respective applications, while all other urls lead to the default python
>>>> wiki. I think it doesn't even require rewrite rules, as scriptalias
>>>> directives are evaluated in order of occurence. We would of course still
>>>> have a redirect from the old /moin url.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If there are no objections, I would say - Radomir, go for it. =)
>>> To summarize what do we want to do and how it will behave after the
>>> migration:
>>>
>>>  * wiki.python.org/PageName - is a new shorter way of accessing Python
>>> knowledge base
>>>  * wiki.jython.org/PageName - is a new shorter way to access Jython pages
>>>  * wiki.python.org/moin/(.*)$ - will be a permanent redirect to
>>> wiki.python.org/\1 to save external links from breaking
>>>  * wiki.python.org/jython/(.*)$ - the same to  wiki.jython.org/\1
>>
>> I don't think this will technically work with MoinMoin, since it
>> needs the URL prefix to distinguish between the wiki instances
>> in a farm installation.
>>
>> We could have a redirect from anything not a wiki instance
>> prefix to wiki.python.org/moin/\1, but the wiki pages themselves
>> would still need to use the /moin/ prefix.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I must protest here. As one of the core developers of
> MoinMoin I have never heard about such a limitation -- perhaps in was
> there in some older versions of MoinMoin, from before I joined. In
> fact, the wikis at *.moinmo.in itself are running as a farm, as far as
> I know, and they are all top-level wikis. The regular expressions in
> farmconfig can match the domain names just fine. Even if there was
> such a limitation, it would be very easy to work around with Apache's
> rewrite rules. There are no technical problems preventing us from
> using the setup that Anatoly described, and I will be glad to
> 

Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Paul Boddie wrote:
> On Monday 19 December 2011 23:41:14 Martin v. Löwis wrote:
>>> That's not a problem, I can match both on the domain and on the prefix
>>> -- and I can treat no prefix as yet another match for the prefix.
>>> So, wiki.python.org would lead to the python wiki, wiki.jython.org to
>>> the jython wiki, etc. plus there would be redirects from
>>> wiki.python.org/moin/* and wiki.python.org/jython/*.
>>
>> I think what MAL is saying is that you cannot have wiki.python.org/psf
>> point to one wiki, and wiki.python.org/ point to another one. If you
>> could, it would be ambiguous if wiki.python.org/psf/BoardAgenda
>> is a page in the PSF wiki, or in the Python Wiki.
> 
> I don't remember the farmconfig limitations, but I'm pretty sure you could 
> get 
> Apache to handle this and point /psf to a specific Wiki instance before any 
> other instance is offered a chance to handle it.
>
>> I'm not sure whether URL stability has been discussed yet in this
>> thread: it's absolutely necessary that the existing URLs continue
>> to work "forever", since people are linking to them. Making them
>> redirect would be an option if implementable.
> 
> I'm also pretty sure that Anatoly mentioned URL stability. I think the 
> simplification would be a reasonable enhancement.

Why not reverse this and redirect from the wiki.python.org/PageName
to wiki.python.org/moin/PageName for all page names that don't
start with (moin/|psf/|jython/) ?

That way you get your shortened URLs, but don't have to change the
way MoinMoin is configured or play with domain names and new
Apache virtual server setups.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
> more objections to do
> required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
> people could directly
> say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7 days?

I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having wiki.python.org
redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
or short and neither do mice :-)

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Re: [pydotorg-www] dinsdale rebooted

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Thomas Wouters wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 30, 2011 at 14:37, Antoine Pitrou  wrote:
> 
>> Hello,
>>
>> dinsdale was unresponsive (all the services) so I've rebooted it. The
>> services
>> should go back online after the boot sequence is finished.
>> (hopefully I didn't mess with anything when doing that)
>>
> Dinsdale was hanging again just now. This time the serial console was
> still attached to the screen session run by p...@xs8.xs4all.nl, and
> the output before it hung is at the bottom of the message. Also, I noticed
> ssh wasn't coming up, probably because the pypissh startup script confused
> the ssh startup script. I had to kill pypissh, start ssh and then start
> pypissh. changed the pypissh startup script to run after ssh, although
> making it so those two ssh daemons don't clash is probably a good idea. (It
> probably amounts to changing a pidfile in one of the configs, but I don't
> know.) Also, /etc/init.d/pypi doesn't seem to get started succesfully; I
> just started it manually, I haven't looked at why it didn't work.

Looks like the /dev/sda disk is broken. Could you run smartctl
on the drive and check that smartd is running on dinsdale (and sending
emails to this list or pydotorg) ?

Thanks,
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> 
>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
>>> more objections to do
>>> required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
>>> people could directly
>>> say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7 days?
>>
>> I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
>> can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having
>> wiki.python.org
>> redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
>> redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
>> or short and neither do mice :-)
> 
> 
> I find these -1 reasons are funny. =) I can repeat the counter-arguments
> that shorter URLs are better not only in address bars, but also for posting
> links and navigating search results, but the point is:
> 
> - this configuration change is a one-time, standard, common, not-a-hack
> solution for a traditional problem, that MoinMoin is designed to resolve,
> and it is a small price of admin's time to make a small group of people,
> who also care about Python wiki feel a little bit more happy

I do care about the Python wikis being both an admin and user of
them, and I feel that the maintenance and documentation overhead
of your solution doesn't warrant the change.

> Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
> complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
> answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
> confusion.

If you can show that adding new wikis to this setup is easy and
doesn't require setting up new domains, I'll change my mind.

The way I read your proposal, it only works if you put the
wiki instances each under their own sub domain (with all the
admin and maintenance overhead that goes with it).

If you're after better navigation, it may make more sense,
changing the prefix from /moin/ to /python/, so that the
URLs read:

http://wiki.python.org/python/
http://wiki.python.org/jython/
http://wiki.python.org/psf/

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 2:11 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> 
>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 6:38 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>>>
>>>> anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>>>> 7 days have passed since last message, so I presume there are no
>>>>> more objections to do
>>>>> required configuration changes.  Of course, it will be more obvious if
>>>>> people could directly
>>>>> say they are o.k. with it.  Should we leave this open for another 7
>> days?
>>>>
>>>> I'm still -1 on the change. It only helps people typing the URL and you
>>>> can get the same effect of saving those 5 letters by having
>>>> wiki.python.org
>>>> redirect such URLs to the /moin/ instance, without any complicated URL
>>>> redirection setup. Browsers don't really care whether the URL is long
>>>> or short and neither do mice :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I find these -1 reasons are funny. =) I can repeat the counter-arguments
>>> that shorter URLs are better not only in address bars, but also for
>> posting
>>> links and navigating search results, but the point is:
>>>
>>> - this configuration change is a one-time, standard, common, not-a-hack
>>> solution for a traditional problem, that MoinMoin is designed to resolve,
>>> and it is a small price of admin's time to make a small group of people,
>>> who also care about Python wiki feel a little bit more happy
>>
>> I do care about the Python wikis being both an admin and user of
>> them, and I feel that the maintenance and documentation overhead
>> of your solution doesn't warrant the change.
>>
> 
> Is the current setup documented anywhere at all?
> If you point to the document, we can remove the burden of providing
> necessary instructions from you and stop talking about "overhead" in
> abstract terms by providing real diff of the changes.

The PSF systems documentation is here:

https://psf.projecthut.com/trac/psfsystems/wiki

It's far from complete, but all we have at the moment.
If you want a login, let me know.

>> Common - you don't really think that the proposed redirection setup is
>>> complicated, do you? =) If some questions are left unanswered or the
>>> answers are vague - just repeat them, so we can clarify and remove the
>>> confusion.
>>
>> If you can show that adding new wikis to this setup is easy and
>> doesn't require setting up new domains, I'll change my mind.
>>
> 
> If the real problem is in setting up new domains then we can discuss it in
> this thread or in different - as you wish. Don't you use DynDNS or
> alternative ?

No. The python.org domain DNS records are controlled by the sysadmins.

> As for showing you new setup and how to add new domains there, we need at
> least least old config available from somewhere. Do you have a link to
> repository?

See the above wiki for details. Config files are kept in a bzr
repo.

>> The way I read your proposal, it only works if you put the
>> wiki instances each under their own sub domain (with all the
>> admin and maintenance overhead that goes with it).
>>
> 
> It is hard for me to estimate the overhead you are speaking about. It will
> be more productive to start with actual config files and description of the
> current setup. If it is Apache that is hard to maintain, we can switch to
> Nginx. If the overall config is too complicated there is Puppet and plenty
> of other admin helpers. Just describe this overhead problem.

If you want to change the overall setup, please get in touch with the
infrastructure team which is currently evaluating and planning to
move the python.org systems to a whole new infrastructure.

>> If you're after better navigation, it may make more sense,
>> changing the prefix from /moin/ to /python/, so that the
>> URLs read:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/python/
>> http://wiki.python.org/jython/
>> http://wiki.python.org/psf/
>
> BTW, that is the current bus factor for wiki.python.org ?  If it is so hard
> to maintain, maybe you just need more people to help?

What is a "bus factor" ?

I'm not saying that the current setup is hard to maintain. I'm saying
that your proposal appears not to provide a good ratio between added
maintenance and added value.

You're only focusing on the Python wiki instance, but we have and will
have more than just one instance running on the server, so those will
need to be taken into account as well.

Perhaps there is a way to trick farmconfig int

Re: [pydotorg-www] Removing /moin/ suffix from wiki.python.org (Was: Internal Server Error while reverting spam)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Martijn Pieters wrote:
> On Jan 5, 2012, at 19:38 , M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> What is a "bus factor" ?
> 
> From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor:
> 
> In software development, a software project's bus factor is a measurement of 
> the concentration of information in individual team members. The bus factor 
> is the total number of key developers who would need to be incapacitated (as 
> by getting hit by a bus) to send the project into such disarray that it would 
> not be able to proceed; the project would retain information (such as source 
> code)  with which no remaining team member is familiar. A high bus factor 
> means that many developers would need to be removed before the project would 
> necessarily fail.

Thanks for the explanation.

Regarding the context we're discussing here: I'm not really sure
why a higher "bus factor" can be used to warrant unnecessary
complication. If that were so, Python would by now resemble APL ;-)

If Anatoly can come up with a working configuration that doesn't
require sub domain management, more virtual servers or moving to nginx
in order to support more than one wiki, I'd be +0 on the change.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fw: [Archiver-policy] Impact of SOPA?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Patrick Ben Koetter wrote:
> * Barry Warsaw :
>> I really almost hesitate to send this, not because I'm not entirely
>> sympathetic to the cause, but because political discussions are always
>> problematic and perhaps more so because of the PSF's non-profit status.
>> Still, SOPA and the like are evil pieces of legislation that will have
>> seriously dire consequences to Python and python.org.  Notwithstanding the
>> recent backtracking on these bills, I wonder if we should blackout as well 
>> for
>> solidarity (and self-interest).
>>
>> I'm deliberately sending it here first, although the board would likely have
>> to decide too.  The question is, if we wanted to participate, would it be
>> technically feasible given our volunteer resources?
> 
> postmaster hat on:
> Yes, we can blackout mail for that time
> 
> SOPA:
> Personally I don't think we need to start a discussion on it. We can just vote
> and do what the vote returns.

FWIW: I'm not sure whether the PSF should engage in such local
political discussions, being an organization with international
focus.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Board-Public] League of Awesome page is updated

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
> http://www.python.org/psf/league/ has been updated with our latest sponsors.

Hi Noah,

thanks for the update. I was a bit surprised that the PSF now
sports a new page linking firms who have donated hardware or
services without the board being involved.

While I don't think that anyone from the board would object to
having such a page, I do think that the board has to approve such
important changes to the PSF website. Looking at the website
repository, Martin added the original infrastructure page
on 2012-02-23. Perhaps Martin could shed some light on this ?!

I also noticed that we now have two directories mentioning the
infrastructure sponsors:

http://www.python.org/psf/infrastructure/
http://www.python.org/psf/league/

and that the "League" entry in the left hand menu only shows up in
the PSF top-level

http://www.python.org/psf/

and not in the lower level entries, e.g.

http://www.python.org/psf/about/

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Board-Public] League of Awesome page is updated

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Jesse Noller wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 11:43 AM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
>>> http://www.python.org/psf/league/ has been updated with our latest sponsors.
>>
>> Hi Noah,
>>
>> thanks for the update. I was a bit surprised that the PSF now
>> sports a new page linking firms who have donated hardware or
>> services without the board being involved.
>>
>> While I don't think that anyone from the board would object to
>> having such a page, I do think that the board has to approve such
>> important changes to the PSF website. Looking at the website
>> repository, Martin added the original infrastructure page
>> on 2012-02-23. Perhaps Martin could shed some light on this ?!
>>
>> I also noticed that we now have two directories mentioning the
>> infrastructure sponsors:
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/infrastructure/
>> http://www.python.org/psf/league/
>>
>> and that the "League" entry in the left hand menu only shows up in
>> the PSF top-level
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>
>> and not in the lower level entries, e.g.
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/about/
> 
> Steve Holden and I both gave Noah the nod for this. So blame us.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm not blaming anyone, just want
to make it clear that some changes require board approval, since
they affect how the PSF values (or is perceived to value)
contributions and donations.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Board-Public] League of Awesome page is updated

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
> 
> On Mar 15, 2012, at 11:43 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
>> Noah Kantrowitz wrote:
>>> http://www.python.org/psf/league/ has been updated with our latest sponsors.
>>
>> Hi Noah,
>>
>> thanks for the update. I was a bit surprised that the PSF now
>> sports a new page linking firms who have donated hardware or
>> services without the board being involved.
>>
> 
> The board was involved, both Jesse and Steve were made aware that I was 
> adding new logos to the site and approved of the more whimsical name. Having 
> such a page is standard procedure when signing up new sponsors, and I spent 
> much of PyCon going out in search of more partners to improve infrastructure 
> stuffs.

Thanks for the note; Jesse already explained.

Sorry, if this came across as criticism of how you handled this
(much to the contrary).

>> While I don't think that anyone from the board would object to
>> having such a page, I do think that the board has to approve such
>> important changes to the PSF website. Looking at the website
>> repository, Martin added the original infrastructure page
>> on 2012-02-23. Perhaps Martin could shed some light on this ?!
>>
>> I also noticed that we now have two directories mentioning the
>> infrastructure sponsors:
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/infrastructure/
> 
> Just an older version. I moved the source page, but the automated builder 
> doesn't remove stuff automatically.

Ok, but I think you also need to update some links pointing to that
old URL, e.g. http://www.python.org/psf/

>> http://www.python.org/psf/league/
>>
>> and that the "League" entry in the left hand menu only shows up in
>> the PSF top-level
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/
>>
>> and not in the lower level entries, e.g.
>>
>> http://www.python.org/psf/about/
> 
> Also just a side-effect of the builder hooks not running a full rebuild. I 
> tried deciphering the build system last night, but couldn't see the Right Way 
> to do a rebuild safely. As individual pages are updated, it should be made 
> visible. If someone wants to run a full site rebuild I would be grateful.

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[pydotorg-www] Rebuild to correct menu structure

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Could someone please issue a clean rebuild of the site to get the
menu structure back into shape ?!

Basically:

make clean all

The cronjob running on the site doesn't appear to do this.

Alternatively, if someone could give me access to the machine, I could
do this myself.

Thanks,
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Board Resolutions from January through February 2012 Board Meetings - Please Post Online

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Hi Pat,

I've added these to the page.

Please note that I'd like you to do these edits yourself. I'll
try to post some instructions on the PSF wiki. Do you already
have an account on the server to access the pages ?

Thanks.

Pat Campbell wrote:
> Hi pydotorg team:
> 
>  
> 
> Could you please add the following board resolutions from
> 
> January through February 2012 board meetings to this web page:
> 
>  
> 
> http://www.python.org/psf/records/board/resolutions/
>    
> 
>  
> 
> Please see the list of board resolutions to be added below:
> 
> * *
> 
> *January 16, 2012 board meeting*
> 
>  
> 
> **RESOLVED**, that the PSF provide grant funding of AUD$1500 to the
> 
>PyCon Australia 2012 Conference as a silver level sponsor.
> 
>   
> 
> Approved 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 16 January 2012
> 
>  
> 
>   **RESOLVED**, that the PSF authorize the expenditure of the Atlassian 
> donation of
> 
>$10,000 with an additional $1500 from the foundation's budget for the 
> purchasing
> 
>and shipping of servers to replace the existing Python.org/PSF 
> infrastructure.
> 
>These servers are to be hosted at Oregon State University Open Source Labs.
> 
>   
> 
> Approved 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 16 January 2012
> 
>  
> 
>**RESOLVED**, that the PSF make a donation to the Oregon State University
> 
>Foundation for the Oregon State University Open Source Labs in the amount 
> of
> 
>$3000.
> 
>   
> 
> Approved 7-1-0 by IRC vote, 16 January 2012
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> *February 27 2012 board meeting*
> 
> * *
> 
> **RESOLVED**, that the Foundation spend a maximum of $5715.00 in purchasing a
> 
>long term storage array for the video archives of past python conferences
> 
>maintained by Carl Karsten. This array is to be jointly owned by the Python
> 
>Software Foundation and the Django Software Foundation.
> 
>   
> 
> Approved 7-0-0 by email vote, 04 February 2012
> 
>  
> 
>   **RESOLVED**, that the board repeals the previously passed resolution of 
> June 12, 2006 which
> states "until further notice, the Officers of the Corporation may spend up to
> 
>USD 500 per expense without prior Board approval, but subject to prompt 
> reporting
> 
>to the Board, and consistent with the mission statement and requirements 
> of maintaining our
> status as a 501(c)3 non-profit."
> 
>  
> 
>**RESOLVED**, that until further notice, the Officers of the Corporation 
> may spend up to USD 250
> per expense without prior Board approval, but subject to prompt reporting to 
> the Board, and
> consistent with the mission statement and requirements of maintaining
> 
> our status as a 501(c)3 non-profit.
> 
>  
> 
>**RESOLVED**, that until further notice, the Directors of the Corporation 
> may spend up to USD 500
> per expense without prior Board approval, but subject to prompt reporting to 
> the Board, and
> consistent with the mission statement and requirements of maintaining our 
> status as a 501(c)3
> non-profit.
> 
>  
> 
>**RESOLVED**, that until further notice, the Secretary of the Corporation 
> may spend up to USD 250
> per expense without prior Board approval, for expenses needed to undertake 
> its duties as outlined in
> the bylaws, and up to USD 500 per expense without prior Board approval, but 
> subject to prompt
> reporting to the Board, and consistent with the mission statement and 
> requirements of maintaining
> our status as a 501(c)3 non-profit.  
> 
> 
> 
> Approved 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 04 February 2012
> 
>  
> 
>   **RESOLVED**, that the Board recognizes the efforts expended by its
> 
>Administrator, Pat Campbell, in furthering the development of the
> 
>organization and the mission of the Foundation.
> 
>  
> 
> Approved 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 04 February 2012
> 
>  
> 
>   **RESOLVED**, that the 2012-1st Quarter PSF Community Service Award be 
> granted to Carl Trachte and
> Audrey Roy. 
> 
>  
> 
> Approved 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 04 February 2012
> 
>  
> 
>**RESOLVED**, that the Python Software Foundation adapt the new logo 
> designed by
> 
>The Phuse as the official PSF logo, once the necessary paperwork has been 
> completed.
> 
>   
> 
> Approved 8-0-0 by IRC vote, 04 February 2012
> 
>  
> 
>**RESOLVED**, that the PSF contracts Dyn Inc. for hosting DNS.
> 
>   
> 
> Approved 7-1-0 by IRC vote, 04 February 2012
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pat  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Pat Campbell
> PSF Administrator/Secretary
> pat...@python.org 
> 
> 
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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Board] License of website

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Steve Holden wrote:
> I think that would be about the worst possible approach. WEll, no, I could 
> think of worse, but we can't tell people to ignore potential copyright issues 
> on content we publish in our wiki. We simply don't have that right.

Agreed, this would indeed be a very poor statement to make
given that the PSF has a mission to protect the IP in Python.

At the moment the only thing we can tell people requesting the
PSF's opinion on the wiki content is that we don't own the
copyright and thus cannot make a statement.

Without a licensing scheme in place, the resp. authors retain the
copyright and full rights to it. The fact that they place the
content on a public website is indication that they are fine
with making the content available to the general public, but
it doesn't imply that we can freely allow others to take it
and do whatever they want with it.

The same goes for mailing list archives or any other user
provided content that the PSF hosts, but for which we don't
have a license relationship with the authors in place.

That said, I don't we have a problem, we're just talking us into
having one...

> S
> 
> On Apr 20, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Carl Karsten wrote:
> 
>> Could someone say "the PSF does not have an opinion, use your good judgment 
>> and hope for the best."   That seems as true as "The PSF says don't do it, 
>> but they probably wont call the police if you ignore them."
>>
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Board] License of website

[M.-A. Lemburg]

A.M. Kuchling wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 08:57:45PM +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> Steve Holden wrote:
>> At the moment the only thing we can tell people requesting the
>> PSF's opinion on the wiki content is that we don't own the
>> copyright and thus cannot make a statement.
> 
> Should we add a notice to the edit page like Wikipedia's?  Wikipedia's
> reads:
> 
>   By clicking the "Save Page" button, you agree to the Terms of
>   Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution
>   under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a
>   hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative
>   Commons license.

Good idea, except we don't need the GFDL.

> We'd still have the problem of getting a license to the existing wiki
> content.  Perhaps we could take a vote of the contributors with logins
> ("Are you OK with using license X?").

How did Wikipedia manage the switch from GFDL to CC-BY-SA ? Perhaps
we could use the same approach.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Board] License of website

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Jeremy Baron wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 16:55, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> A.M. Kuchling wrote:
>>> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 08:57:45PM +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>>> Steve Holden wrote:
>>>> At the moment the only thing we can tell people requesting the
>>>> PSF's opinion on the wiki content is that we don't own the
>>>> copyright and thus cannot make a statement.
>>>
>>> Should we add a notice to the edit page like Wikipedia's?  Wikipedia's
>>> reads:
>>>
>>>   By clicking the "Save Page" button, you agree to the Terms of
>>>   Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution
>>>   under the CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a
>>>   hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative
>>>   Commons license.
>>
>> Good idea, except we don't need the GFDL.
>>
>>> We'd still have the problem of getting a license to the existing wiki
>>> content.  Perhaps we could take a vote of the contributors with logins
>>> ("Are you OK with using license X?").
>>
>> How did Wikipedia manage the switch from GFDL to CC-BY-SA ? Perhaps
>> we could use the same approach.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Licensing_update

Thanks. Doesn't look like we can use such an approach.

I guess we'll have to just leave it as it is and just start
using the above to eventually end up with a CC-BY-SA licensed
wiki.

In theory we'd be able to use a robot to run over all pages
and identify the parts that are not yet under CC-BY-SA. Perhaps
we could make that an SoC or school project in, say, 3 years
from now.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] PSF Contributor form

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Hi Mats,

unfortunately, the only way we (as the PSF) can properly protect
the Python IP is by having a clear copyright and license chain
from the contributors to the PSF. Since contributors give
the PSF far more than just a usage license, this has to be handled
using a contributor agreement.

Note that we just need this for copyrightable contributions, not
small bug fixes. And you only need to go through the process once,
since it covers past and future contributions.

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Mats Wichmann wrote:
> On 04/21/2012 11:08 PM, "Martin v. Löwis" wrote:
>> Am 22.04.2012 01:02, schrieb Mats Wichmann:
>>> As an employee of a "large corporation", I'll observe that the problem
>>> with contributor forms is once you have to sign one, the lawyer has to
>>> get involved.  Once the lawyer has to get involved, life WILL get
>>> complicated. 
>>
>> Tough luck. Then you just can't contribute to Python. I'm serious about
>> this: if your company's lawyer is not happy that you essentially give
>> all rights of your contribution to the PSF, then the PSF cannot use your
>> contribution. The risk is too high that the lawyer finds out at some
>> point and claims that your company has rights to Python. That's
>> *exactly* one of the reasons to have contributor forms: to get the
>> employer of a contributor to explicitly acknowledge that it is ok to
>> contribute (assuming the employer has rights over the contribution).
> 
> I guess I have to feel free to disagree.   For my case, my big company
> has been involved in open source for a long time, we have a clear well
> documented process for contributions to projects, and though that
> process has gotten more complicated over the years since I did it, I
> have gone through it for Python, following all the necessary steps, and
> it's all approved: the people who need to know, do know, the bases are
> all covered, with a clear understanding that the contributions are all
> that, no ownership interest would be retained by us.  If there's a new
> "contributor agreement", it does mean a lawyer has to look at it in
> excruciating detail. And as a deal unique to PSF, that means the chance
> of issues. This question is not supposed to be be about me, as noted, so
> maybe the impression I have of "if used to work, now it's going to get
> more complicated" looms bigger.  But I do know we've had problems with
> both the Ubuntu contributor agreement, and the Fedora one, to name two
> that actually affected me.  There are projects that get by without "you
> must sign this assignment of rights" type contributor agreements, not
> sure why Python can't be one of them.
> 
> (yes, these are only my personal reactions, take them for whatever 0.05%
> value they may have)



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[pydotorg-www] Added events calendar to site template

[M.-A. Lemburg]

I've added the pycon.org events calendar to the site template in the same
way that the release calendar is shown.

Now in order to have the site pick up the change, I'll need to trigger a
complete rebuild.

Unfortunately, I don't remember how that's done. I presume that I need
to log in to the machine that's currently hosting the site and
run "make clean all". But I don't remember which machine that is and
whether I have a login for it. Could someone help me out ?

Thanks,
-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 11 2012)
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2012-10-29: PyCon DE 2012, Leipzig, Germany ...48 days to go
2012-10-23: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ... 42 days to go
2012-08-28: Released mxODBC 3.2.0 ... http://egenix.com/go31
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Added events calendar to site template

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> I've added the pycon.org events calendar to the site template in the same
> way that the release calendar is shown.
> 
> Now in order to have the site pick up the change, I'll need to trigger a
> complete rebuild.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't remember how that's done. I presume that I need
> to log in to the machine that's currently hosting the site and
> run "make clean all". But I don't remember which machine that is and
> whether I have a login for it. Could someone help me out ?

I tweaked the main page a little to trigger a rebuild and the calendar
now shows up on all pages under the main page, but not the main page
itself or the news page.

The status page (http://www.python.org/status/) doesn't show any signs
of things not working properly.

Are content.ht and newsindex.yml in data/ special in some way ?

Note that the tweak I did to the main is visible (r14387),
but the old site template was used for the update.

Would perhaps a second tweak cause those files to get updated
as well ?

-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 12 2012)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/

2012-10-29: PyCon DE 2012, Leipzig, Germany ...47 days to go
2012-10-23: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ... 41 days to go
2012-08-28: Released mxODBC 3.2.0 ... http://egenix.com/go31
2012-08-20: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.0.0 ... http://egenix.com/go30


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Re: [pydotorg-www] Added events calendar to site template

[M.-A. Lemburg]

M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> I've added the pycon.org events calendar to the site template in the same
>> way that the release calendar is shown.
>>
>> Now in order to have the site pick up the change, I'll need to trigger a
>> complete rebuild.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I don't remember how that's done. I presume that I need
>> to log in to the machine that's currently hosting the site and
>> run "make clean all". But I don't remember which machine that is and
>> whether I have a login for it. Could someone help me out ?
> 
> I tweaked the main page a little to trigger a rebuild and the calendar
> now shows up on all pages under the main page, but not the main page
> itself or the news page.
> 
> The status page (http://www.python.org/status/) doesn't show any signs
> of things not working properly.
> 
> Are content.ht and newsindex.yml in data/ special in some way ?
> 
> Note that the tweak I did to the main is visible (r14387),
> but the old site template was used for the update.
> 
> Would perhaps a second tweak cause those files to get updated
> as well ?

Just tried: tweaking the content.ht and news/content.ht pages
cause a rebuild which then also had them use the new template.

Problem solved :-)

-- 
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eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Sep 12 2012)
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>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/

2012-10-29: PyCon DE 2012, Leipzig, Germany ...47 days to go
2012-10-23: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ... 41 days to go
2012-08-28: Released mxODBC 3.2.0 ... http://egenix.com/go31
2012-08-20: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.0.0 ... http://egenix.com/go30


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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Python.org front page news features (near-)duplicates

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 23.10.2012 12:07, Michael Foord wrote:
> A suggestion on managing the feed of news items that appears on the front 
> page of python.org.

The current system for posting news entries on python.org uses the newsindex.yml
file which basically lists calendar entries in ReST format. I suppose
we could simply add a flag to those entries to disable their display on the
frontpage and only have the items listed in the RSS feed (that's how we
do this at eGenix).

> All the best,
> 
> Michael Foord
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Justin Blank 
>> Subject: Re: Python.org front page news features (near-)duplicates
>> Date: 23 October 2012 01:17:35 BST
>> To: Michael Foord 
>>
>> As I said, the point is that updates displayed on a webpage should be
>> decoupled from the RSS feed. RSS is plumbing.
>>
>> Here is one idea: a widget displays the n-most recent items in the RSS
>> feed by default (or it could be all entries more recent than a certain
>> date). However, a human can override that default, and either a) keep
>> certain items displaying for longer, or b) hide entries (like release
>> candidates) that have been superceded by more recent developments. .
>>
>> Release candidates are important news when they happen. They cease
>> being news once the actual software is released. At that point, they
>> are history, and are of interest to a limited set of people.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Michael Foord  wrote:
>>> Hello Justin,
>>>
>>> The main use case for the RSS feed is to be consumed via feed readers, so 
>>> most people will see items as they are posted rather than all at the same 
>>> time. I don't see how else we could generate a useful feed of news items 
>>> other than as they are posted though. Betas and release candidates of new 
>>> versions of Python is important news after all.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Michael Foord
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 Oct 2012, at 20:10, Justin Blank  wrote:
>>>
 On the python.org front page, there is an RSS feed of news. At
 present, this displays the fact that Python 3.3 was released (good),
 but it also dispays three additional 3.3 release candidates. Since
 seven news items are displayed in my browser, that means almost half
 of them are wasted. I am personally insane enough to be curious what
 the schedule of release candidates was for already released software
 (indeed, I have checked that information for several operating systems
 and other pieces of software recently), but it's not what I expect to
 see when I go to the python website, or what I'd expect most users
 would like to see.

 Of course, these are perfectly reasonable items to include in an RSS
 feed, which one assumes will be consumed the first time it's seen, but
 I think what that shows is that the front page news feed needs to be
 decoupled from the RSS feed.

 Justin

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
>>>
>>>
>>> May you do good and not evil
>>> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
>>> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
>>> -- the sqlite blessing
>>> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing 
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> 

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2012-09-27: Released eGenix PyRun 1.1.0 ...   http://egenix.com/go35
2012-09-26: Released mxODBC.Connect 2.0.1 ... http://egenix.com/go34
2012-09-25: Released mxODBC 3.2.1 ... http://egenix.com/go33
2012-10-23: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ... today

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: python.org page descriptions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

I've modified the build.py to use the title as default for keywords
and description. Not ideal, but still better than "None".

The next site rebuild should fix the problem.

On 31.12.2012 16:29, Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Lance E Sloan 
>> Subject: python.org page descriptions
>> Date: 21 December 2012 14:49:54 GMT
>> To: webmas...@python.org
>>
>> Today I wanted to +1 this page on Google+:
>>
>>  http://www.python.org/getit/mac/
>>
>> When I clicked the +1 button (using a Google+ extension for Chrome on
>> Mac OS X), it said the description of the page was:
>>
>>  None
>>
>> Looking at the source of the page, I see:
>>
>>  
>>
>> You should either put descriptions on the Python website pages or
>> remove these meta tags altogether, because this makes posts about
>> python.org on Google+ (and probably other services) look silly.
>>
>> --
>> Lance E Sloan, Application Developer
>> Univ. of Michigan, Info. and Tech. Services, AIS AMP
>> http://www.its.umich.edu/
>> ** Get free online disk space from Dropbox:
>> ** https://www.dropbox.com/spacerace?r=NTQ3OTQ2Njk5
>>
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing 
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-www
> 

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2013-01-22: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ... 12 days to go

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Wiki news?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 15.01.2013 23:00, Frank Wierzbicki wrote:
> Just checking to see what is known about the Python and Jython wiki. I
> know about the breach and I know that everything was deleted. Is the
> content recoverable? Does anyone know when there will be some update
> on when/whether the wikis will reappear?
> 
> I really do appreciate all of the hard work that goes into supporting
> the infrastructure, so I hope no one reads this as impatience. I just
> want to be able to pass on any info to the Jython folks that had
> content on the wiki. There's always the wayback machine to get some of
> it back if things are as bad as they could be...

Those updates have been posted to the infrastructure list.

I'm working on the recovery together with Reimar Bauer and
Thomas Waldmann (both MoinMoin devs).

Here's an update I sent to the board list yesterday:

"""
I've managed to extract all of the data available archive.org for
the public wikis (the latest version of each page). I'm now
looking into merging this data with the more recent, but incomplete
data from Yahoo/Bing archives. The Google archive could not be used
due to a surge protection they have on their site.

Once this is merged, Reimar will put the HTML files through
a converter that generates wiki markup.

However, before setting up the new VM with the recovered data,
we want to have a closer look at the VM image file Noah made available
yesterday.

>From a first inspection it does contain traces of the wiki files
and even the most recently updated ones from the board
agenda page.

Esp. for the PSF wiki this data is important, since we don't
have any other cache or archive to check.

If we're successful, we can then create a dump of all the recovered
data in wiki format to be loaded back into the archive from
end of June 2012.
"""

-- 
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eGenix.com

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] [Infrastructure] Wiki news?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 16.01.2013 00:52, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
> Indeed, thanks for all the work Marc-Andre and everyone else!
> 
> fwiw, archive.org has a reasonably recent copy of a crawl of the site:
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20121127091219/http://wiki.python.org/moin/
> 
> Turning that back into mysterious wiki markup and applying changes as
> updates on top of whenever the backup was from if it was indeed older than
> that is likely to be a lot of work.  I'll be happy with whatever you're
> able to recover however you're doing it regardless.

I've been able to recover the pages from archive.org and have also
tried Google cache (which failed due to limits on the number of
allowed requests) and Yahoo/Bing cache. The latter worked, but
only returns a small fraction of the pages we have had in the wiki -
about 300+ pages. They are more recent than the archive.org ones,
though, so I'm trying to merge the Yahoo archive ones back into the
archive.org recovery.

I recovered around 4500 pages from archive.org... in HTML. Reimar
has a tool to convert them back into wiki markup, which we'll
try to use to prepare an import.

Meanwhile I'm also trying to see whether we can still extract some
data from the broken VM image. It does show traces of the wiki
file contents, so the data still exists on the image in some
form. Noah already tried extundelete with no success. I'm going
to give some of the other tools a try as well, e.g. ext4magic
or PhotoRec.

> -gps
> 
> 
> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:00 PM, fwierzbi...@gmail.com <
> fwierzbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Jesse Noller  wrote:
>>> Noah has a new VM ready to go, however it has old information on it.
>> Marc-Andre is working on recovering more recent versions of the content
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the update! This must have been horribly stressful. :(
>>
>> -Frank
>> ___
>> PSF-Members mailing list
>> psf-memb...@python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/psf-members
>> PSF home page (http://www.python.org/psf/)
>> PSF membership FAQ (http://www.python.org/psf/membership/)
>> PSF members' wiki (http://wiki.python.org/psf/)
>>
> 

-- 
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eGenix.com

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2013-01-22: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...  6 days to go

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Wiki news?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Related to this:

Since I don't think we can recover more data from the available caches,
it may be a good time to redirect the wiki.python.org URL
to a page explaining the problem - perhaps just the blog post at:

http://pyfound.blogspot.de/2013/01/wikipythonorg-compromised.html

Could someone take care to this ?

Thanks.

On 16.01.2013 09:08, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> On 15.01.2013 23:00, Frank Wierzbicki wrote:
>> Just checking to see what is known about the Python and Jython wiki. I
>> know about the breach and I know that everything was deleted. Is the
>> content recoverable? Does anyone know when there will be some update
>> on when/whether the wikis will reappear?
>>
>> I really do appreciate all of the hard work that goes into supporting
>> the infrastructure, so I hope no one reads this as impatience. I just
>> want to be able to pass on any info to the Jython folks that had
>> content on the wiki. There's always the wayback machine to get some of
>> it back if things are as bad as they could be...
> 
> Those updates have been posted to the infrastructure list.
> 
> I'm working on the recovery together with Reimar Bauer and
> Thomas Waldmann (both MoinMoin devs).
> 
> Here's an update I sent to the board list yesterday:
> 
> """
> I've managed to extract all of the data available archive.org for
> the public wikis (the latest version of each page). I'm now
> looking into merging this data with the more recent, but incomplete
> data from Yahoo/Bing archives. The Google archive could not be used
> due to a surge protection they have on their site.
> 
> Once this is merged, Reimar will put the HTML files through
> a converter that generates wiki markup.
> 
> However, before setting up the new VM with the recovered data,
> we want to have a closer look at the VM image file Noah made available
> yesterday.
> 
>>From a first inspection it does contain traces of the wiki files
> and even the most recently updated ones from the board
> agenda page.
> 
> Esp. for the PSF wiki this data is important, since we don't
> have any other cache or archive to check.
> 
> If we're successful, we can then create a dump of all the recovered
> data in wiki format to be loaded back into the archive from
> end of June 2012.
> """
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Jan 16 2013)
>>> Python Projects, Consulting and Support ...   http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope/Plone.Database.Adapter ...   http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...http://python.egenix.com/

2013-01-22: Python Meeting Duesseldorf ...  6 days to go

: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Adding User Group Calendar to home page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 16.01.2013 16:33, mmuel...@python-academy.de wrote:
> Hi web team,
> 
> Since the dates of Python events are split between the events calendar and 
> the user group
> group calendar it makes sense to add both to the python.org home page.
> While the events calendar appears in left column, the user group calendar 
> does not.
> 
> It would be nice to have the user group calendar there, just below and in the 
> same style.
> 
> This is the link for the iframe
> 
> "https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=3haig2m9msslkpf2tn1h56nn9g%40group.calendar.google.com";

Hi Mike,

this was done on purpose, since we first wanted to see whether the
user events clutter up the calendar too much. That doesn't appear to be
the case, so it may be a good idea to add it as extra calendar box on the
sidebar.

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: Try our mxODBC.Connect Python Database Interface for free ! ::

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Re: [pydotorg-www] FWD: wiki down notice moved

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 16.01.2013 17:12, Aahz wrote:
> Marc-Andre,
> 
> I have no objection to a news item, but I think the wiki being down is
> important enough that it should also stay at the top of the page,
> webmaster is getting constant pings about it.  Is there some reason you
> removed it from the top?

Just to avoid duplication. We can readd it if you like.

BTW: Isn't there some CSS to a highlight the notice in some way ?

> Thanks,
> Aahz
> 
> 
> - Forwarded message from "marc-andre.lemburg" 
>  -
> 
>> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:32:04 +0100 (CET)
>> From: "marc-andre.lemburg" 
>> To: pydotorg-check...@python.org
>> Subject: [Pydotorg-checkins] r14559 - trunk/beta.python.org/build/data
>> Reply-To: pydot...@python.org
>>
>> Author: marc-andre.lemburg
>> Date: Wed Jan 16 16:32:04 2013
>> New Revision: 14559
>>
>> Modified:
>>trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/content.ht
>>trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/newsindex.yml
>> Log:
>> Turn the wiki down notice into a news item.
>>
>>
>>
>> Modified: trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/content.ht
>> ==
>> --- trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/content.ht  (original)
>> +++ trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/content.ht  Wed Jan 16 16:32:04 2013
>> @@ -62,9 +62,6 @@
>>PyKyra http://www.alobbs.com/pykyra
>>3D Rendering http://www.vrplumber.com/py3d.py
>>  
>> -Note: the Python wiki is currently down as of 2013-01-05
>> -(``__), we will post more details later.
>> -
>>  **Python is a programming language that lets you work more quickly and
>>  integrate your systems more effectively. You can learn to use Python
>>  and see almost immediate gains in productivity and lower maintenance
>>
>> Modified: trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/newsindex.yml
>> ==
>> --- trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/newsindex.yml   (original)
>> +++ trunk/beta.python.org/build/data/newsindex.yml   Wed Jan 16 16:32:04 2013
>> @@ -6,6 +6,10 @@
>>  global:
>>news:
>> -
>> +pubDate: Mon, 7 January 2013, 20:00 +0200
>> +title: "http://wiki.python.org taken down for recovery"
>> +description: !rest "The Python wiki has been taken offline for recovery 
>> operations. Please see the `PSF blog `__ for 
>> details and updates."
>> +   -
>>  pubDate: Sat, 29 September 2012, 18:00 +0200
>>  title: "Python 3.3.0 released"
>>  description: !rest "`Python 3.3.0 `__ has 
>> been released."
>> ___
>> Pydotorg-checkins mailing list
>> pydotorg-check...@python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pydotorg-checkins
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> 

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] [Infrastructure] Wiki news?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 16.01.2013 09:26, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Meanwhile I'm also trying to see whether we can still extract some
> data from the broken VM image. It does show traces of the wiki
> file contents, so the data still exists on the image in some
> form. Noah already tried extundelete with no success. I'm going
> to give some of the other tools a try as well, e.g. ext4magic
> or PhotoRec.

Update on the last bit:

The tools were not able to recover the deleted files in the file
structure, but were able to reconstruct a large number of files
from the unallocated parts of the disk.

Given that moin saves all revisions of a wiki page in the file
system, with the file name being the only indication of the
revision, those files may be useful in important cases, but there's
no way to use them as input for automatic processing.

The tools did also recover a number of log files that had been
deleted, which allowed for a better analysis of what was used
for the attack.

Unfortunately, the logs for the important Dec 28
appear to have been overwritten by some other files, so I can't
tell for sure whether the same attack as for the Debian wiki
was used, but it is highly likely:

http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWiki/SecurityIncident2012

The moinexec.py action plugin mentioned there was used on our
wiki VM as well.

In the course of this, the IP address from which the "rm -r *"
originated turned up and we've contacted the ISP for more
information.

Several others played with the URLs as well, but only did
harmless stuff. The attacker must have been in the know
about the fact that wiki.python.org was also running the Jython
wiki, since the availability via python.org and jython.org
were checked after the rm run.

Reimar is working on the conversion of the archive.org page
dump to wiki format. I'll try to transmogrify the first
Yahoo dump I ran into a suitable format for him to use
tomorrow (the later runs returned fewer pages, which indicates
that these caches can really only be used for short periods
of time).

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Adding User Group Calendar to home page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 18.01.2013 10:15, Mike Müller wrote:
> Am 16.01.13 16:37, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
>> On 16.01.2013 16:33, mmuel...@python-academy.de wrote:
>>> Hi web team,
>>>
>>> Since the dates of Python events are split between the events calendar and 
>>> the user group
>>> group calendar it makes sense to add both to the python.org home page.
>>> While the events calendar appears in left column, the user group calendar 
>>> does not.
>>>
>>> It would be nice to have the user group calendar there, just below and in 
>>> the same style.
>>>
>>> This is the link for the iframe
>>>
>>> "https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=3haig2m9msslkpf2tn1h56nn9g%40group.calendar.google.com";
>>
>> Hi Mike,
>>
>> this was done on purpose, since we first wanted to see whether the
>> user events clutter up the calendar too much. That doesn't appear to be
>> the case, so it may be a good idea to add it as extra calendar box on the
>> sidebar.
> 
> Good. I would like to add more user group events and invite others to
> submit theirs. Right now I cannot find a link from the python.org site
> anywhere. I think I need to supply such link to encourage people to add
> an event. Of course, the link was on the a wiki page. But having it from
> other places too might not be that bad an idea.

Are you looking for this ?

http://pycon.org/#calendar

> Regarding clutter, one of the intentions of having two different calendars
> for conference-like events and user group meetings was to prevent clutter.
> The way the box is set up, it shows only the most recent events. Therefore,
> the worst that can happen that you see only events that are today because
> there are so many of them. You need to click on the box anyway to see more
> details.

True. I can add the new box next week.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] [PSF-Members] Wiki news?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 17.01.2013 00:47, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> Unfortunately, the logs for the important Dec 28
> appear to have been overwritten by some other files, so I can't
> tell for sure whether the same attack as for the Debian wiki
> was used, but it is highly likely:
> 
> http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWiki/SecurityIncident2012
> 
> The moinexec.py action plugin mentioned there was used on our
> wiki VM as well.

Update:

A full disk scan revealed more details on the used plugin:
I could find a partial .pyc file which included the timestamp

Wed Jul 25 16:08:14 2012 GMT

If you compare that to the findings of the Debian admins,
this suggests that either the plugin was copied over to
the server as PYC file (in which case, the timestamp doesn't
mean much), or the PYC file was compiled by the Python on
the wiki server after a .py file was installed. The latter
is more likely given the analysis of the Debian system breach.

In other words, the backdoor will likely have been open for
several months.

Reimar has nearly finished the work on the wiki markup conversion
of the HTML files I had extracted from archive.org and yahoo.com.

We'll install these on top of the June/Juli 2012 backup of
the wiki in the next few days.

I also have a number of recovered wiki markup text files from
the VM, but without any date or filename information. These can
be used for manual recovery of single important pages that
were not available in the archive dumps.

Note that I cannot simply upload those pages somewhere, because
the VM hosted the public wikis as well as the private PSF ones
and the files are a mix of all these wikis.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] [PSF-Members] [Infrastructure] Wiki news?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 18.01.2013 19:59, Neil Schemenauer wrote:
> [PSF list removed]
> 
> On 2013-01-18, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> In other words, the backdoor will likely have been open for
>> several months.
> 
> My thanks to all the work put in by volunteers.  Has there been any
> consideration given to using different wiki software?  It's my
> impression that MoinMoin has a quite poor record with regard to
> security:
> 
> http://moinmo.in/SecurityFixes
> 
> The abundance of past holes doesn't predict future ones but in
> general there seems to be a correlation. 

I think that's a misinterpretation. MoinMoin is used in a *lot*
of places and so finding vulnerabilities becomes more attractive
than for other similar software.

I agree, though, that a security audit would probably not
hurt :-) Perhaps they should have one of their GSoC students
run such an audit this summer.

> Whatever software we use,
> keeping the wiki separated (e.g. in its own VM) is definitely a good
> idea.  Anytime you allow remote users to create content the risks
> are high.

True.

Let's not overreact :-) Without the incident we would still be under
the assumption that we have backups for everything...

It also shows that we have to make a few enhancement to the way
we do logging; but that's going to be a new thread.

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[pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

We're currently working on setting up the new VM with the
Python and Jython wikis.

In order to increase security and also to help a bit with
avoiding spam/vandalism, we'd like to disable editing
of wiki pages without login.

Any objections ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 24.01.2013 15:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 1:13 AM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> In order to increase security and also to help a bit with
>> avoiding spam/vandalism, we'd like to disable editing
>> of wiki pages without login.
>>
>> Any objections ?
> 
> Strongly support, as long as it's easy enough to create a login. +0 if
> logins take a lot of time (or admin approval) before being permitted.

It doesn't need admin approval. You just need to sign up. It's a
small extra burden. As side effect, the history of page edits
also becomes more readable.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 24.01.2013 16:28, Radomir Dopieralski wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:13 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> We're currently working on setting up the new VM with the
>> Python and Jython wikis.
>>
>> In order to increase security and also to help a bit with
>> avoiding spam/vandalism, we'd like to disable editing
>> of wiki pages without login.
>>
>> Any objections ?
> 
> I don't really have any objections, but it may interest you that the
> last few spammer attacks on the wiki all registered random accounts
> automatically and logged in before posting their spam.

I know it's not the ultimate tool against spammers :-)

We were thinking more about things like the attacks by script
kiddies we've seen after the Debian announcement. I would think
that having to log in before being able to run the action
would have made people think twice.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 24.01.2013 15:21, Jeremy Baron wrote:
> On Jan 24, 2013 9:14 AM, "M.-A. Lemburg"  wrote:
>> We're currently working on setting up the new VM with the
>> Python and Jython wikis.
> […]
> 
> Is this being automated or documented in any way? e.g. with puppet.

Both :-) The infrastructure team is using Chef for the management,
but there are still some manual steps involved in a moin wiki setup
that are not easy to automate (part of the setup requires visiting
pages, clicking on links, etc).

> So that next time you need to make a new one from scratch it is then a
> trivial task.

The setup isn't all that hard. The hard part was trying to recover at
least some of the content and getting it back into the wiki.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 25.01.2013 10:36, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 5:13 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> 
>> We're currently working on setting up the new VM with the
>> Python and Jython wikis.
>>
>> In order to increase security and also to help a bit with
>> avoiding spam/vandalism, we'd like to disable editing
>> of wiki pages without login.
>>
>> Any objections ?
>>
> 
> What was the monthly amount of posts from anonymous spammers?
> What was the ratio of spam posts of anonymous vs registered spammers?
> 
> If the both parameters are low, I'd be -1. In other 'words':
> 
> if monthly.spam.unreg < 5 and monthly.spam.unreg/float(monthly.spam.reg) <
> 1:
>registration.disable()

If you could define a function to determine whether an edit was
spam or not, such statistics would be possible - and a lot more ;-).

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Changing default wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 24.01.2013 23:24, Paul Boddie wrote:
> Aahz wrote:
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> We're currently working on setting up the new VM with the Python and
>>> Jython wikis.
>>>
>>> In order to increase security and also to help a bit with avoiding
>>> spam/vandalism, we'd like to disable editing of wiki pages without
>>> login.
>>>
>>> Any objections ?
>>
>> That was in fact the setup previously, and I strongly support reverting
>> to it.  As Barry notes, there are some pages that will need a higher
>> level of protection, but as long as we've got off-VM backups, we can
>> handle any mishaps.
> 
> Indeed. I don't buy into the myth that people perpetuate about Wikis having 
> to 
> allow anonymous access or otherwise be instruments of The Man, or whatever. 
> The Internet is full of people who will happily pollute any editable site 
> with their idiotic spams and scams, and some fairly basic measures will deter 
> the bulk of these people.

Given the positive echo, we'll go ahead with requiring logins for
edits per default.

> I recommend...
> 
> Requiring some kind of login. This actually makes it easier for the editors 
> to 
> see at a glance who has edited a page (Aahz rather than, say, 
> 123-client.456-server.verizon.com) and make a quick judgement about whether 
> the edit needs investigating. We can support OpenID - you can even use your 
> Python Package Index identity! - and so don't even need to make people set 
> and remember distinct passwords.
> 
> Maintaining the textcha protection for random newcomers. I appreciate that 
> textcha questions can be a pain - on one Wiki I use, the questions required a 
> fair amount of research on my part because I am a mere developer and not part 
> of the target audience - but we can migrate people quickly to a group/list 
> that doesn't get bothered with questions. Textcha can be very effective: on 
> some sites I've seen where they turned the feature on, spam was more or less 
> eliminated.

We are using text based capchas for the Python and Jython wiki -
for both unregistered and registered users. There's a group
of trusted editors which doesn't have to bother with the captchas.

Additionally, we have a blocked user group to disable known spam
accounts.

> Having some kind of mechanism for managing new user registration. I wouldn't 
> want to impose the approval of new users because it stops the quick-but-good 
> edits of people who are new to the Wiki but want to fix something, but it is 
> the case that there may be a lot of "registration spam", meaning that the 
> Wiki fills up with users who will never succeed in making an edit because 
> they can't answer the textcha questions. Maybe there are already tools that 
> deal with this. If not, I may be encouraged to write something.

We currently have 11000 users registered for the Python wiki. I do
believe that many of those are no longer in use. Since we're resetting
the password of the users now, we should get a good feel for the
actual number of active users after a few months: the inactive ones
will show up as not having registered a new password.

> Beyond this, we could introduce edit approval for random newcomers - I wrote 
> something that puts edits in approval queues - but this is really something 
> for a site where you want the barrier to editing to be very low but the 
> barrier to publishing to be much higher. For the Python Wikis, the barrier to 
> editing should be low but not *very* low, and the barrier to publishing 
> should not be significantly higher.

If spam from registered users becomes more of a problem, we could
increase the number of captcha phrases.

> Finally, I would like to thank Marc-André for his forensic and recovery work 
> as well as Thomas and Reimar for their work in attempting to restore the 
> content. Once again, the PSF should be thanked for making resources available 
> for the improvement of MoinMoin in various respects. Ensuring the vitality of 
> widely-used Python projects like MoinMoin is an essential part of ensuring 
> the vitality of Python itself.

Thanks,
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Wiki renames don't provide redirects for the old pages

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 05.02.2013 03:06, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> I don't remember exactly, but ISTM previously Python wiki set a redirect
> for the old name if a page was renamed. Now I had to fix all broken links
> manually.

I don't think that was ever the case. The usual way to deal with this
is to add a redirect instruction to the old page. See
http://wiki.apache.org/general/WikiFrequentlyAskedQuestions

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Wiki renames don't provide redirects for the old pages

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 05.02.2013 10:41, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 10:53 AM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
> 
>> On 05.02.2013 03:06, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>> I don't remember exactly, but ISTM previously Python wiki set a redirect
>>> for the old name if a page was renamed. Now I had to fix all broken links
>>> manually.
>>
>> I don't think that was ever the case. The usual way to deal with this
>> is to add a redirect instruction to the old page. See
>> http://wiki.apache.org/general/WikiFrequentlyAskedQuestions
> 
> 
> The wiki correctly inserts #pragme redirected from into the new page
> content. It should be possible to turn on the option to insert redirect to
> the old name. I am not a Moin expert to know if such option exists though.
> This page lists a workaround -
> http://moinmo.in/FeatureRequests/RenamePageUpdatesLinkedPages

There is no such option in moin for the reasons given on the page.

Please manually add those redirect pages, if you think they are needed
(e.g. because some external sites link to the old names).

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Adding User Group Calendar to home page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 18.01.2013 10:41, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> On 18.01.2013 10:15, Mike Müller wrote:
>> Am 16.01.13 16:37, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
>>> On 16.01.2013 16:33, mmuel...@python-academy.de wrote:
>>>> Hi web team,
>>>>
>>>> Since the dates of Python events are split between the events calendar and 
>>>> the user group
>>>> group calendar it makes sense to add both to the python.org home page.
>>>> While the events calendar appears in left column, the user group calendar 
>>>> does not.
>>>>
>>>> It would be nice to have the user group calendar there, just below and in 
>>>> the same style.
>>>>
>>>> This is the link for the iframe
>>>>
>>>> "https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=3haig2m9msslkpf2tn1h56nn9g%40group.calendar.google.com";
>>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> this was done on purpose, since we first wanted to see whether the
>>> user events clutter up the calendar too much. That doesn't appear to be
>>> the case, so it may be a good idea to add it as extra calendar box on the
>>> sidebar.
>>
>> Good. I would like to add more user group events and invite others to
>> submit theirs. Right now I cannot find a link from the python.org site
>> anywhere. I think I need to supply such link to encourage people to add
>> an event. Of course, the link was on the a wiki page. But having it from
>> other places too might not be that bad an idea.
> 
> Are you looking for this ?
> 
> http://pycon.org/#calendar
> 
>> Regarding clutter, one of the intentions of having two different calendars
>> for conference-like events and user group meetings was to prevent clutter.
>> The way the box is set up, it shows only the most recent events. Therefore,
>> the worst that can happen that you see only events that are today because
>> there are so many of them. You need to click on the box anyway to see more
>> details.
> 
> True. I can add the new box next week.

I've added the box now. The next site rebuild should make the
change visible.

David, could you perhaps trigger a site rebuild ?

Thanks,
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Jython wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 07.02.2013 01:00, Frank Wierzbicki wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I see a bunch of spam when I look here:
> 
> http://wiki.python.org/jython/RecentChanges
> 
> And I don't seem to have the right permissions to use the "despam"
> feature. Is this the right list to ask on?

Yes.

You are listed in the AdminGroup so should have permission to
run the despam feature:

http://wiki.python.org/jython/AdminGroup

Please make sure you log in first before trying. If it doesn't
work, I can double-check the configuration tomorrow. This was
reset to the state it was in on June 24 2012, so if there any
changes between then and now, we'd have to restore those changes.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Jython wiki permissions

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 07.02.2013 01:13, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:04 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> On 07.02.2013 01:00, Frank Wierzbicki wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I see a bunch of spam when I look here:
>>>
>>> http://wiki.python.org/jython/RecentChanges
>>>
>>> And I don't seem to have the right permissions to use the "despam"
>>> feature. Is this the right list to ask on?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> You are listed in the AdminGroup so should have permission to
>> run the despam feature:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/jython/AdminGroup
>>
>> Please make sure you log in first before trying. If it doesn't
>> work, I can double-check the configuration tomorrow. This was
>> reset to the state it was in on June 24 2012, so if there any
>> changes between then and now, we'd have to restore those changes.
> I logged out and in again just in case. Logged in as FrankWierzbicki
> and clicking on "despam" gives me:
> 
> You are not allowed to use this action.
> 
> I do see myself in the AdminGroup, so maybe the config is goofed up. I
> haven't ever tried to use "despam" before, so this may never have
> worked for me.

Turns out this action is only available to the SuperUser, which is
a feature only used during installation of moin:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/HelpOnSpam

I guess the best you can do is delete the pages. We could also
disable the resp. accounts.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Adding User Group Calendar to home page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 07.02.2013 08:29, Mike Müller wrote:
> Am 05.02.13 16:57, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
>> On 18.01.2013 10:41, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> On 18.01.2013 10:15, Mike Müller wrote:
>>>> Am 16.01.13 16:37, schrieb M.-A. Lemburg:
>>>>> On 16.01.2013 16:33, mmuel...@python-academy.de wrote:
>>>>>> Hi web team,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since the dates of Python events are split between the events calendar 
>>>>>> and the user group
>>>>>> group calendar it makes sense to add both to the python.org home page.
>>>>>> While the events calendar appears in left column, the user group 
>>>>>> calendar does not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be nice to have the user group calendar there, just below and 
>>>>>> in the same style.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the link for the iframe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=3haig2m9msslkpf2tn1h56nn9g%40group.calendar.google.com";
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mike,
>>>>>
>>>>> this was done on purpose, since we first wanted to see whether the
>>>>> user events clutter up the calendar too much. That doesn't appear to be
>>>>> the case, so it may be a good idea to add it as extra calendar box on the
>>>>> sidebar.
>>>>
>>>> Good. I would like to add more user group events and invite others to
>>>> submit theirs. Right now I cannot find a link from the python.org site
>>>> anywhere. I think I need to supply such link to encourage people to add
>>>> an event. Of course, the link was on the a wiki page. But having it from
>>>> other places too might not be that bad an idea.
>>>
>>> Are you looking for this ?
>>>
>>> http://pycon.org/#calendar
>>>
>>>> Regarding clutter, one of the intentions of having two different calendars
>>>> for conference-like events and user group meetings was to prevent clutter.
>>>> The way the box is set up, it shows only the most recent events. Therefore,
>>>> the worst that can happen that you see only events that are today because
>>>> there are so many of them. You need to click on the box anyway to see more
>>>> details.
>>>
>>> True. I can add the new box next week.
>>
>> I've added the box now. The next site rebuild should make the
>> change visible.
> 
> Great. Now we have a better case in asking user groups for their meeting 
> dates.
> python.org is easy enough to remember as the direct entry point for your 
> search
> for user group meeting dates. :)

Indeed. I've also added a small link make people aware of the
fact that adding events is easy.

>> David, could you perhaps trigger a site rebuild ?

Looks like David hasn't had time yet. I'll give it a try later today,
David doesn't beat me to it :-)

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Adding User Group Calendar to home page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 07.02.2013 08:31, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> David, could you perhaps trigger a site rebuild ?
> 
> Looks like David hasn't had time yet. I'll give it a try later today,
> David doesn't beat me to it :-)

Done.

For some reason, the checkin handler had not done an svn update
in the new-build/ dir with the template, so I had to do that
manually on the server.

A couple of tweak checkins then triggered the rebuild of the site.

Aside: "make all" in the website/ dir returned an error:

$ make all
make: *** No rule to make target `SiteMap.html', needed by `all'.  Stop.

so I stopped trying to use the more direct approach for the
rebuild.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Potential error found

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 10.02.2013 13:23, Michael Foord wrote:
> 
> On 10 Feb 2013, at 06:57, Tannyr  wrote:
> 
>> Source:  http://wiki.python.org/moin/SimplePrograms
>>
>> Description:  The '8 line' example program is not displaying properly.  
>> Missing surrounding 'code box'.
>>
>>
>> Current View:
>> {{{#!/usr/bin/env python # This program adds up integers in the command line 
>> import sys try:
>>
>>  • total = sum(int(arg) for arg in sys.argv[1:]) print 'sum =', total
>> except ValueError:
>>
>>  • print 'Please supply integer arguments'
>> }}}
>>
> 
> I've "fixed" it - however the wiki still seems to strip the "#!/usr/bin/env 
> python" line.

That's normal. If you put a # on the first line of a preformatted
section, moin interprets this as parser directive:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/HelpOnParsers

If you still want to have the line to show up, you need to
place it on the second line.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] (PEP )?redirector service

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 11.02.2013 16:18, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Right now to go to pep from an URL, you have to type exactly:
> http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008
> 
> What is needed to create redirector service on peps.python.org that sends
> all the following URLs to the page above?
> 
> http://peps.python.org/8
> http://peps.python.org/pep8
> http://peps.python.org/pep-08
> http://peps.python.org/0008
> http://peps.python.org/peps-0008

I think it's better to link directly to the correct URL. If you want
shorter URLs, there are plenty URL shorteners out there. Many browsers
also allow customizing search, so you could add a PEP search to your
browser.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] (PEP )?redirector service

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 11.02.2013 21:31, Paul Boddie wrote:
> So, I think that peps.python.org is potentially a good idea and might be 
> provided fairly easily with a rewrite rule, but too much magic is just not 
> worth having: it's only when pages become completely undiscoverable 
> that "guess the URL" becomes worthwhile, and then time would arguably be 
> better spent improving navigation on the site concerned.
> 
> Paul
> 
> P.S. To take an example, typing dell.com/linux takes you to Dell's 
> current "secret" page about Linux that you just know will be moved around, 
> obscured in favour of "Dell recommends Microsoft Windows 8" "adverts", 
> hidden, removed, lost, and so on, but that is only a useful shortcut because 
> such sites make searching and navigation so awkward and awful otherwise.

But the Dell example is a landing page URL. In the PEP context this
would take you to the PEP index.

Given that the PEP index does not move around a lot (we only do website
redesigns every 5-7 years ;-)) and that you only save typing "dev/",
I don't think it's a use case that warrants adding and maintaining
extra DNS and Apache magic.

BTW: If this idea has some followers, it may be a good idea
for them to setup a separate domain just for this purpose and
maintain a list of redirects into the various Python websites.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Jython wiki spam (was: Jython wiki permissions)

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Hi Frank,

the Jython wiki is getting regularly spammed with link spam,
it seems:

http://wiki.python.org/jython/RecentChanges

I checked the registration page and it already has a textcha.

It may be worthwhile adding a new set of textchas to make
it a bit harder for them to sign up. Could you or the Jython
team provide some (in private mail) ? I can then configure
the system to use the new set.

Thanks.

On 07.02.2013 02:01, fwierzbi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 4:40 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> Turns out this action is only available to the SuperUser, which is
>> a feature only used during installation of moin:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/HelpOnSpam
>>
>> I guess the best you can do is delete the pages. We could also
>> disable the resp. accounts.
> Page delete works fine, thanks - and sorry for the noise!
> 
> -Frank
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Google snippets vs target page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 13.02.2013 23:34, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Not sure if this is the place to raise this or not.
> 
> Often, when I do a Google search for Python docs, the displayed page
> title and snippet show version 3.3.0 docs, but clicking the link takes
> me to /2/ instead. Is there a discrepancy between the version seen by
> the crawler and the redirect given to a browser? Has something changed
> recently and this is just a transitional period? Is there some kind of
> settable preference to say "give me version 3 docs by default" and I
> just haven't seen it?

Do you have an example ?

I just tried a few queries, but Google always shows 2.x docs
and also links to the 2.x pages.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Google snippets vs target page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 14.02.2013 00:14, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:05 AM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>> On 13.02.2013 23:34, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> Not sure if this is the place to raise this or not.
>>>
>>> Often, when I do a Google search for Python docs, the displayed page
>>> title and snippet show version 3.3.0 docs, but clicking the link takes
>>> me to /2/ instead. Is there a discrepancy between the version seen by
>>> the crawler and the redirect given to a browser? Has something changed
>>> recently and this is just a transitional period? Is there some kind of
>>> settable preference to say "give me version 3 docs by default" and I
>>> just haven't seen it?
>>
>> Do you have an example ?
>>
>> I just tried a few queries, but Google always shows 2.x docs
>> and also links to the 2.x pages.
> 
> I searched for 'python string format' and got this:
> 
> string - Python v3.3.0 documentation
> docs.python.org › ... › 7. String Services
> In addition, Python's built-in string classes support the sequence
> type methods described ... It takes a format string and an arbitrary
> set of positional and keyword ...
> 
> which then linked to the 2.7.3 docs.

Thanks. I get the same results. It is strange, though, that Google
uses that title for the link, since the cached version also points
to the 2.7 version of the page with title
"7.1. string — Common string operations — Python v2.7.3 documentation"

It is possible that during the transition to the new URL scheme,
Google picked up a Python 3 page under the URL and then stored
that for the page. It'll probably get corrected in one of the
next Google scans, I guess.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] News Item request

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 14.02.2013 21:29, Brian Curtin wrote:
> If anyone has a few free minutes, would you be able to add a news item
> on the front page pointing to
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html?
> 
> I would do it myself but I don't currently have an operational
> checkout and won't have time to get to it until tomorrow.
> 
> Text like "The Python Software Foundation is requesting the assistance
> of anyone in the community who works in a company that has a presence
> in an EU Community Member State. The Python trademark is at risk, more
> details available at
> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html";
> would be great.

Done.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] News Item request

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 15.02.2013 01:11, Aahz wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> On 14.02.2013 21:29, Brian Curtin wrote:
>>>
>>> Text like "The Python Software Foundation is requesting the assistance
>>> of anyone in the community who works in a company that has a presence
>>> in an EU Community Member State. The Python trademark is at risk, more
>>> details available at
>>> http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2013/02/python-trademark-at-risk-in-europe-we.html";
>>> would be great.
>>
>> Done.
> 
> You beat me by two minutes.  ;-)  (SVN conflict!)

:-)

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Re: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Fwd: PyPI security notice

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Thanks. I've contacted Vid off-list.

On 24.02.2013 20:17, Aahz wrote:
> - Forwarded message from Vid  -
> 
>> Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 08:37:24 +0530
>> From: Vid 
>> To: webmas...@python.org
>> Subject: Fwd: PyPI security notice
>>
>> Hi, could someone on the team please help with the wiki p/w recovery?
>> Thanks, Vid
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Richard Jones 
>> Date: Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 2:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: PyPI security notice
>> To: Vid 
>>
>>
>> Please try webmas...@python.org
>>
>> On 22 February 2013 22:24, Vid  wrote:
>>> Hi, so who am I supposed to contact to get this rectified? Thanks, Vid
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Richard Jones  wrote:
 Sorry, I'm unable to help with wiki issues.


  Richard

 On 16 February 2013 14:29, Vid  wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 15, 2013 at 8:13 AM,   wrote:
>>
>> TL;DR: please log into PyPI and change your password.
>>
>> Dear PyPI user svaksha,
>>
>
> Hello Richard,
>
> I have tried the procedure to reset my passw (recovery details below)
>
> Login Name: svaksha
>
> Password recovery token: 
> 1360913446-90fd1b15230f900c1cdce6e6d518e59f086f1469
>
> Password reset URL:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/FrontPage?action=recoverpass&name=svaksha&token=1360913446-90fd1b15230f900c1cdce6e6d518e59f086f1469
>
> I am still unable to reset the passw as it says the token is not
> correct. Please help me recover my account 'svaksha', and I am not
> sure which email ID I used - I have two:  and
> 
>
> Thanks and Regards,
> vid  ? http://svaksha.com ?
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>> vid  ? http://svaksha.com ?
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Regards,
>> vid  ? http://svaksha.com ?
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> 

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Images used on Python.org website, and Facebook

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 23.02.2013 17:33, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
>>> Hi, I placed a link to python.org on a Facebook page expecting the 
>>> thumbnail to show the usual double-python. However, it instead shows part 
>>> of the 'non English resources' image instead.
>>>
>>> Could someone perhaps tweak the website code so your familiar logo is shown 
>>> when linked from Facebook - I think you use the FB Linter tool to check.
> 
> Indeed, I can reproduce this.
> It shows the image from the box "AFNIC.fr uses Python..." and nothing
> else. No way to choose another image.

Does someone know which aspects to tweak in order to change this ?

I can make the change to the existing site, but need to know
what to change :-)

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Images used on Python.org website, and Facebook

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 25.02.2013 16:59, Carl Karsten wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Éric Araujo  wrote:
>> Le 25/02/2013 08:38, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit :
>>> Does someone know which aspects to tweak in order to change this ?
>>
>> You’d need to add special markup to your page to define the title,
>> description and image to be shown on Facebook.  It’s part of what they
>> call OpenGraph; it’s comparable to RDFa, Microformats or schema.org, but
>> specific to Facebook, so adding such markup may be interpreted as
>> endorsement.
>>
>> http://mikeeverhart.net/facebook/use-ogp-tags-to-change-images-when-sharing-links-on-facebook/
>>
> 
> Whoever wants this implemented should provide something like this:
>   
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> http://mikeeverhart.net/"; />
>  content="http://mikeeverhart.net/mike-everhart-facebook.png"; />
> ...
> 

I just tested the image selection on Facebook. While I also see
the success story as first image, the second image is the Python
logo. The format of the logo image doesn't really fit the Facebook
or Google+, so perhaps adding an image which can be used for these
is not a bad idea.

Does Google+ have a similar standard for defining such images ?

We could then add both to not endorse a specific social network.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: Images used on Python.org website, and Facebook

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 26.02.2013 09:33, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:29 AM, anatoly techtonik 
> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:12 AM, anatoly techtonik 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:17 PM, M.-A. Lemburg  wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 25.02.2013 16:59, Carl Karsten wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Éric Araujo 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Le 25/02/2013 08:38, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit :
>>>>>>> Does someone know which aspects to tweak in order to change this ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You’d need to add special markup to your page to define the title,
>>>>>> description and image to be shown on Facebook.  It’s part of what they
>>>>>> call OpenGraph; it’s comparable to RDFa, Microformats or schema.org,
>>>> but
>>>>>> specific to Facebook, so adding such markup may be interpreted as
>>>>>> endorsement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> http://mikeeverhart.net/facebook/use-ogp-tags-to-change-images-when-sharing-links-on-facebook/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Whoever wants this implemented should provide something like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>> ...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://mikeeverhart.net/"; />
>>>>> >>>> content="http://mikeeverhart.net/mike-everhart-facebook.png"; />
>>>>> ...
>>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> I just tested the image selection on Facebook. While I also see
>>>> the success story as first image, the second image is the Python
>>>> logo. The format of the logo image doesn't really fit the Facebook
>>>> or Google+, so perhaps adding an image which can be used for these
>>>> is not a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> Does Google+ have a similar standard for defining such images ?
>>>>
>>>> We could then add both to not endorse a specific social network.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=176035
>>> http://schema.org/Thing or http://schema.org/SoftwareApplication
>>>
>>> http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets?url=www.python.org&html=
>>>
>>
>> https://developers.google.com/+/plugins/snippet/
>>
> 
> To be more specific:
> 
> 
> http://schema.org/LocalBusiness";>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.python.org/images/python-logo.gif
> ">

Thanks for the pointers.

Looks like supporting both Open Graph and schema.org would do the trick
for Facebook, Google+, MS and Yahoo.

http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1211158

We'd probably have to use http://schema.org/Organization as itemtype.

I'm not sure about adding the itemscope to the  tag, though...

I found the docs for the use in meta tags:
http://schema.org/docs/gs.html#advanced_missing
but no mention of using  as itemscope.
https://developers.google.com/+/plugins/snippet/ suggests to use the
 tag.

Since the meta tags would go into the header, perhaps using
the  tag would be more appropriate.

Is there some best practice for this documented somewhere ?

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Seems there is a malicious site linked on a wiki page

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 26.02.2013 22:53, Rashaad Essop wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On http://wiki.python.org/moin/WebFrameworks  under the section "Other
> Full-Stack Frameworks" there is a link named "Gae Framework" and it appears
> to link to www[dot]gaeframework[dot]com.
> I happened to click it, but I have various tools to pick up such things,
> one of them is Web of Trust.
> This is the WOT page for where it ends up:
> http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/domains.googlesyndication.com?utm_source=addon&utm_content=warn-viewsc

Hmm, that's the page for Google's ad syndication, not the site
you mentioned above.

Here's a VirusTotal scan of the site:
https://www.virustotal.com/en/url/1148db04ccef76d3e39526fa7492922a828fb133d08a477ed72e8abb6955d211/analysis/1361916367/

It looks like the project has closed down or moved on. The domain
is for sale. I've removed the link and added a note to the wiki
page entry.

Thanks,
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Fwd: JavaScript problem

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 28.02.2013 17:57, Michael Foord wrote:
> We have at least one user who is using the LibreJS extension that blocks 
> javascript not known to be "free" (in the ideological sense). Parts of 
> python.org break when you do this. I promised I would forward this feedback 
> to the web team. 
> 
> It looks like the google calendars break (no surprise) and also the sphinx 
> search for the python documentation (really a sphinx issue instead of a 
> python.org web team issue).

Google calendars show some HTML when JS is no working. It's not
pretty, though.

I'd say we close this as "won't fix" :-)

> Michael Foord
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: LRN 
>> Subject: Re: JavaScript problem
>> Date: 28 February 2013 16:15:11 GMT
>> To: Michael Foord 
>> Cc: webmas...@python.org
>>
> On 28.02.2013 20:02, Michael Foord wrote:
 We use google calendars for the release schedule and other
 calendars, which is *probably* the Javascript you're talking about
> Yes, it could be.
> 
 - although your report is not sufficient to actually diagnose any
 particular problem.
> Yes, LibreJS is not very informative about its decisions about
> JavaScript code it sees. Probably because the algorithm behind these
> decisions is not trivial. I think there is some info on this in
> LibreJS readme file, but that is the extent of my knowledge
> 
 What do you mean by "broken"?
> These features do not work. The calendar-related feature on python.org
> says that JavaScript is disabled, while search feature doesn't show
> up, without any explanations from docs.python.org
> 
 As far as I can tell the features you describe (calendars and
 search) all work fine.
> Apparently, they rely non-free JS code, which is blocked by LibreJS,
> which is why they do not work.
> 
> 
> --
> http://www.voidspace.org.uk/
> 
> 
> May you do good and not evil
> May you find forgiveness for yourself and forgive others
> May you share freely, never taking more than you give.
> -- the sqlite blessing 
> http://www.sqlite.org/different.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [pydotorg-www] FWD: Meta description - interpreted?

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 12.03.2013 02:52, Aahz wrote:
> Any objections?

Not sure about that change... after all we call the Python run-time
the "interpreter" and having the ability to interpret Python
commands at run-time is a major feature in Python - unlike
e.g. C which doesn't support this out of the box.

Something that we should add to that description is the word
"open-source", e.g.

"...and is free, open-source and comprehensively ported."

> - Forwarded message from James Tatum  -
> 
>> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:24:18 -0700
>> From: James Tatum 
>> To: webmas...@python.org
>> Subject: Meta description - interpreted?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The meta description on the home page reads as follows:
>>
>> Home page for Python, an interpreted, interactive, object-oriented, 
>> extensible
>> programming language. It provides an extraordinary combination of clarity and
>> versatility, and is free and comprehensively ported.
>>
>> I think the word interpreted should perhaps be removed. How a Python
>> implementation executes code is really not a function of the language
>> itself, and as far as I know none of the implementations (including
>> CPython) are not strictly interpreted anyway - most use some sort of
>> bytecode and a VM.
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> 

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Re: [pydotorg-www] trying to log into Wiki

[M.-A. Lemburg]

Answered in private email.

On 12.03.2013 19:13, Duncan McGreggor wrote:
> Hey folks,
> 
> I just tried to hit this page:
>   http://wiki.python.org/psf/Membership%20Map%20March%202013
> 
> And as I saw the notice at the top, I remembered the discussions
> around the attack.
> 
> However, I can't seem to recall the user name/email combo that was on
> record (I no longer have the machine that I did the last time I
> accessed the python wiki site, so I can't check old cookies).
> 
> What's the best way to get this info?
> 
> Possible user names: oubiwann Oubiwann DuncanMcGreggor
> Possible email addresses: oubiw...@adytum.us dun...@adytum.us
> oubiw...@cogitat.io dun...@cogitat.io oubiw...@twistedmatrix.com
> duncan.mcgreg...@gmail.com ... and maybe some others?
> 
> Thanks for any help you can provide, and sorry about the hassle :-(
> 
> d
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Re: [pydotorg-www] Python Wiki Spam

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 18.03.2013 18:51, Paul Boddie wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> We're getting a fair amount of spam on the Python Wiki. Can someone with 
> administrative privileges check that the textcha feature is enabled and has 
> been given a set of effective questions?

We've been seeing the same development on the Jython wiki. I guess
they just realized that the Python wiki will likely get them
even more Google juice:

http://wiki.python.org/jython/RecentChanges

Unfortunately, the wiki spam appears to from real humans,
so textchas don't really help much.

I've also checked IP ranges, but it doesn't help either.

Of course, ideas as welcome :-)

We may end up having to require people to take some extra step
in order to open an account on the wikis. Unfortunately, that
makes it harder for non-spam wiki editors to sign up as well.

I can add new textchas, if you like. Please send them directly
to me. Alternatively, it'd probably be a good idea to get you
access to the wiki VM, so you can edit them directly.

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Re: [pydotorg-www] Python Wiki Spam

[M.-A. Lemburg]

On 18.03.2013 19:03, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:
> * M.-A. Lemburg :
> 
>> We've been seeing the same development on the Jython wiki. I guess
>> they just realized that the Python wiki will likely get them
>> even more Google juice:
>>
>> http://wiki.python.org/jython/RecentChanges
>>
>> Unfortunately, the wiki spam appears to from real humans,
>> so textchas don't really help much.
>>
>> I've also checked IP ranges, but it doesn't help either.
>>
>> Of course, ideas are welcome :-)
> 
> Maybe block using some blacklists (we're using sbl.spamhaus.org) using
> mod-spamhaus or similar modules.

Do they have RBLs for wikis ? I thought they only do email blacklisting.

Their website appears to be down at the moment. I'll check again
later.

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