Re: [qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[preilly40]

On 6/3/20 11:25 AM, Daniil Travnikov wrote:
> I know that this is kinda off topic. But what about Battery Runtime in
> your laptops? I mean is it the same in Qubes like in any other OS?
> I am asking because my laptop working in Ubuntu about 5 hours, but in
> Qubes only 1 hour. On any version till the last one - I started use it
> from 3.2.1.
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> .

installing powertop in dom0 may help.  (sudo qubes-dom0-update powertop)



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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[stamisupport]

My Laptop is OrxyPro from 2018 year - https://system76.com/laptops/oryx
Actually I regretted that I bought this piece of sh...
I think it would be better to bought Macbook Pro.

среда, 3 июня 2020 г., 19:20:49 UTC+3 пользователь unman написал:
>
> On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 08:25:08AM -0700, Daniil Travnikov wrote: 
> > I know that this is kinda off topic. But what about Battery Runtime in 
> your 
> > laptops? I mean is it the same in Qubes like in any other OS? 
> > I am asking because my laptop working in Ubuntu about 5 hours, but in 
> Qubes 
> > only 1 hour. On any version till the last one - I started use it from 
> 3.2.1. 
> > 
>
> 1 hour sounds woeful, but you dont say what laptop it is. 
> Yes, under Qubes all the Thinkpads I've seen run hotter with lower 
> battery life than a standard distro. With coreboot worse again. 
> This x230 with 9cell battery gives me 4-5 hours, well tuned. 
>

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Re: [qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[unman]

On Wed, Jun 03, 2020 at 08:25:08AM -0700, Daniil Travnikov wrote:
> I know that this is kinda off topic. But what about Battery Runtime in your 
> laptops? I mean is it the same in Qubes like in any other OS?
> I am asking because my laptop working in Ubuntu about 5 hours, but in Qubes 
> only 1 hour. On any version till the last one - I started use it from 3.2.1.
> 

1 hour sounds woeful, but you dont say what laptop it is.
Yes, under Qubes all the Thinkpads I've seen run hotter with lower
battery life than a standard distro. With coreboot worse again.
This x230 with 9cell battery gives me 4-5 hours, well tuned.

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Daniil Travnikov]

I know that this is kinda off topic. But what about Battery Runtime in your 
laptops? I mean is it the same in Qubes like in any other OS?
I am asking because my laptop working in Ubuntu about 5 hours, but in Qubes 
only 1 hour. On any version till the last one - I started use it from 3.2.1.

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[nickaz nickaz]

Only speed for me.
Sandy/Ivy good when :
1. If the hypervisor were based on something small,flexible and fast - 
Alpine/Void/OpenBSD (any musl/glibc distro)
2. Prebuilt PV/PVH templates of all distros (without HVM virtualization) 
will be available for downloading. DragonflyBSD, Sourcemage, Funtoo. (but 
it possible)
3. If all sys-net/sys-vpn/sys-usb templates were replaced with something 
minimal like Mirage Firewall. 
DNF is generally very slow, Fedora always has problems with repo mirrors.


четверг, 30 апреля 2020 г., 1:39:57 UTC+3 пользователь Catacombs написал:

> Do you see a security problem with the Lenovo X230. Or is it a speed 
> problem that makes you look elsewhere?

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Catacombs]

Do you see a security problem with the Lenovo X230. Or is it a speed problem 
that makes you look elsewhere?

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[nickaz nickaz]

Any laptop that has 2-4 slots for 32GB SO-DIMM memory slots the best choice 
for virtualization.
For example, T480 - 64GB ram, P73 - 128GB ram


пятница, 24 апреля 2020 г., 17:19:43 UTC+3 пользователь 
andrew@gmail.com написал:
>
> Hi alexc
>
> Do you mind sharing which Acer laptop you found to be totally Qubes 
> compatible?
>
> Many thanks
>
> On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 17:38:12 UTC, alexc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I've been using Qubes for about a year. It took me a few weeks to get 
>> everything just right, I did a TON if tiny customizations for the sake of 
>> opsec. Even tho I have a Surface Pro, I use my Qubes laptop 99.999% of the 
>> time. I specifically bought an Acer laptop that was totally compatible and 
>> put 32GBs of RAM in it. 
>>
>> I use it for all kinds of things, personal use like forums, darnet, etc. 
>> I also have a Kali HVM that connects straight to the wifi device only 
>> bypassing sys-net. I run only dom0 and my Kali HVM when in use. Even tho I 
>> have template VMs, my run VMs have allot of customizations to I did not 
>> want to include in the template. I've gotten in the habit of running 
>> duplicates and burning them after a couple uses then making another and so 
>> on. 
>>
>> When 4 final is released and there is a pack for full support of a 
>> Windows 10/Server 2016 HVM, I'mm for sure be doing that as well. I do have 
>> a Windows 7 HVM now for the VERY few apps that there are not Linux variants 
>> of, but I only need that like 1% of the time. 
>>
>>

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[elizzzclautz]

I use Acer Aspire with 32GB RAM with QubesOS. But it has locked propietary 
bios (bios-mods can help you)
Also you can attach external GPU  in m2 ngff slot (remove wifi card) and 
passthrough it to HVM.
See egpu mods.
Old thinkpads (x220-230 series) can be full unblobed (coreboot/heads) but 
not good. John cracks ssh key 2048, for example, 16 hours in kali vm use 2 
cores. Ivy/Sandy bridge too old for sometnig serious i think.

пятница, 24 апреля 2020 г., 17:19:43 UTC+3 пользователь 
andrew@gmail.com написал:
>
> Hi alexc
>
> Do you mind sharing which Acer laptop you found to be totally Qubes 
> compatible?
>
> Many thanks
>
> On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 17:38:12 UTC, alexc...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> I've been using Qubes for about a year. It took me a few weeks to get 
>> everything just right, I did a TON if tiny customizations for the sake of 
>> opsec. Even tho I have a Surface Pro, I use my Qubes laptop 99.999% of the 
>> time. I specifically bought an Acer laptop that was totally compatible and 
>> put 32GBs of RAM in it. 
>>
>> I use it for all kinds of things, personal use like forums, darnet, etc. 
>> I also have a Kali HVM that connects straight to the wifi device only 
>> bypassing sys-net. I run only dom0 and my Kali HVM when in use. Even tho I 
>> have template VMs, my run VMs have allot of customizations to I did not 
>> want to include in the template. I've gotten in the habit of running 
>> duplicates and burning them after a couple uses then making another and so 
>> on. 
>>
>> When 4 final is released and there is a pack for full support of a 
>> Windows 10/Server 2016 HVM, I'mm for sure be doing that as well. I do have 
>> a Windows 7 HVM now for the VERY few apps that there are not Linux variants 
>> of, but I only need that like 1% of the time. 
>>
>>

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[andrew . t . sullivan]

Hi alexc

Do you mind sharing which Acer laptop you found to be totally Qubes 
compatible?

Many thanks

On Tuesday, 13 February 2018 17:38:12 UTC, alexc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I've been using Qubes for about a year. It took me a few weeks to get 
> everything just right, I did a TON if tiny customizations for the sake of 
> opsec. Even tho I have a Surface Pro, I use my Qubes laptop 99.999% of the 
> time. I specifically bought an Acer laptop that was totally compatible and 
> put 32GBs of RAM in it. 
>
> I use it for all kinds of things, personal use like forums, darnet, etc. I 
> also have a Kali HVM that connects straight to the wifi device only 
> bypassing sys-net. I run only dom0 and my Kali HVM when in use. Even tho I 
> have template VMs, my run VMs have allot of customizations to I did not 
> want to include in the template. I've gotten in the habit of running 
> duplicates and burning them after a couple uses then making another and so 
> on. 
>
> When 4 final is released and there is a pack for full support of a Windows 
> 10/Server 2016 HVM, I'mm for sure be doing that as well. I do have a 
> Windows 7 HVM now for the VERY few apps that there are not Linux variants 
> of, but I only need that like 1% of the time. 
>
>

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[alexclaytor]

I've been using Qubes for about a year. It took me a few weeks to get 
everything just right, I did a TON if tiny customizations for the sake of 
opsec. Even tho I have a Surface Pro, I use my Qubes laptop 99.999% of the 
time. I specifically bought an Acer laptop that was totally compatible and put 
32GBs of RAM in it. 

I use it for all kinds of things, personal use like forums, darnet, etc. I also 
have a Kali HVM that connects straight to the wifi device only bypassing 
sys-net. I run only dom0 and my Kali HVM when in use. Even tho I have template 
VMs, my run VMs have allot of customizations to I did not want to include in 
the template. I've gotten in the habit of running duplicates and burning them 
after a couple uses then making another and so on. 

When 4 final is released and there is a pack for full support of a Windows 
10/Server 2016 HVM, I'mm for sure be doing that as well. I do have a Windows 7 
HVM now for the VERY few apps that there are not Linux variants of, but I only 
need that like 1% of the time. 

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Matty South]

On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 4:20:16 PM UTC-6, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> 
> I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> 
> So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> 
> I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> 
> I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> changed or will change in 4.x?
> 
> Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have to 
> look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> 
> I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file system 
> can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other problems.. And I 
> prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of leaning away from 
> Windows 10.
> 
> That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> secure it will be compared to Qubes?

I use Qubes as my primary OS to work 50 hours per week. I do application 
Penetration Testing full time (White Hat Hacker). I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad 
specifically for Qubes. I watch Youtube and run lots of VMs. I don't have time 
to play games and I don't need a lot of graphics acceleration so GPU isn't a 
problem for me. The OS itself is stable enough that I don't find it a hindrance 
to getting stuff done. There are small hiccups here and there, but I would say 
it is about as many bugs as OSX or Windows. 

The pain points are:
1) Getting everything installed and set-up the way I like it took a while 
(mostly because I was learning).
2) No way to share entire desktop over google hangouts or anything like that 
(you can only do that inside a HVM)
3) Some things appear take a little longer since I am used to doing them 
insecurely on Windows. (stuff like copy/paste, USB, Video Calls)

All in all, I'm extremely happy with my decision to make the switch. I'd say if 
you are looking for a new machine anyways, then get a Qubes-compatible one and 
try it out for 6 months. You can always slap an insecure OS on there if you 
don't like it.

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Utility Panel]

On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 5:20:16 PM UTC-5, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> 
> I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> 
> So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> 
> I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> 
> I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> changed or will change in 4.x?
> 
> Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have to 
> look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> 
> I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file system 
> can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other problems.. And I 
> prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of leaning away from 
> Windows 10.
> 
> That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> secure it will be compared to Qubes?

Yah. That sounds right! 

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Yuraeitha]

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 9:00:40 PM UTC+1, Utility Panel wrote:
> On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 5:20:16 PM UTC-5, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> > specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> > done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> > 
> > I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> > but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> > support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> > 
> > So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> > 
> > I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> > could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> > 
> > I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> > changed or will change in 4.x?
> > 
> > Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have 
> > to look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> > 
> > I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file 
> > system can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other 
> > problems.. And I prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of 
> > leaning away from Windows 10.
> > 
> > That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> > secure it will be compared to Qubes?
> 
> Wow! @Yuraeitha & @billollib! Can we sticky these responses? I mean, I know 
> this is a a distribution list and not a discussion forum, but daum! Wish I 
> could write responses like yours.
> 
> I don't actually have much to add. I use Qubes for everything that I care 
> about. I only use Windows for stuff that I use so seldom that I haven't 
> figured out how to do it in Qubes. Insofar as I'm limited in Qubes, it's on 
> account of my own laziness or real life issues rather than any inherent 
> limitation in the OS. And I'm a total hack-job when it comes to computers in 
> general, Linux, or Qubes OS in particular. How I wish I could take a good 
> course in whatever makes Qubes tick! Alas, I'm just an end-user. Not much 
> more to say. Just love Qubes. Don't need to do much else.

You can do that too :) It's just a matter of keep learning, bit by bit, and you 
don't need to go all down the rabbit hole, you can gather meta-knowledge, which 
is what I focus on doing. For as long as you try minimize mistakes and error 
out wrong assumptions, then meta-knowledge is sufficient for regular users like 
us who may not have the time or resources to learn deeper more advanced 
technical stuff. If you learn from reliable people who have much deeper 
insight, or even peers who seek to learn like us, and keep questioning your own 
knowledge, then you'll eventually build up more and more meta-knowledge. 

Also I write in a very risky way, if you want to do something like that, then 
you need to take risks, which is a decision you can take. What I mean is, I may 
be wrong about things here and there, since I don't have a too deep insight 
into the advanced technological aspects, and without insight meta-knowledge can 
be easy to mistake or switch with wrong assumptions, because knowledge doesn't 
stick too well if it's non-deep meta, and one may even make wrong assumptions.

If you keep looking to learn, keep gathering meta-knowledge, and try go a bit 
deeper whenever possible, keep questioning your insight and knowledge, and 
never sell yourself short, even with limited time, eventually you will build up 
meta-knowledge about any topic. After that, just take risk to write about it, 
and be open minded if someone points out about mistakes :) We learn best from 
mistakes too, mistakes are the ultimate learner.

Qubes, computer systems, and security for that matter, is quite complex indeed. 
But while you may not have time or resources to go learn about these in depth, 
if you learn from the people who have the depth, and give it a year or two, and 
then look back, even if it was just a hobby, you will have learned quite a lot.

Also a disclaimer, I don't actually know a lot of meta-knowledge here, but I'm 
more outspoken about what I do know, or think I know. For me this is a journey 
too, to keep gathering more meta-knowledge, and to error out any mistakes or 
false assumptions I make during the journey in my free time hobby. It can be a 
journey for you too, at least I think it can be quite fun as well, thus the 
'hobby' part :)

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Yuraeitha]

On Saturday, February 10, 2018 at 5:05:17 PM UTC+1, bill...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm in a slightly similar situation.  I am a very new Qubes user and am in 
> the process of getting used to it.  My impression is that Qubes right now is 
> a little like linux in general in the 1990s.  I can remember running linux on 
> my boxes and I could do about 70% of what I needed to do, but there was 
> always something that I had to do in Windows.  Then 80%.  Then 90%.  Then 
> 95%. And now, the *only* thing I use Windows for is to check my PowerPoint 
> format lectures that I created with LibreOffice on linux to make sure that 
> there are no font changes that screw up the screen formatting.  And I don't 
> even do that if the venue allows me to use my own laptop for presentations.
> 
> So, the same thing seems to be true here.  The developers of this system have 
> done an amazing job and have a tremendous idea.  But you always solve the big 
> easy  problems first.   I have found that I can use Qubes for about 85% of 
> what I want to do.  I can run LibreOffice, analytical programs, compilers, 
> email, and surf the web.  Videos work fine out of the box for me.
> 
> What doesn't work is the 3D graphics.  I'm having an issue with some games, 
> the Blender modeling program, Paraview, and stuff like that.  Image 
> processing and image manipulation (e.g. GIMP, Hugin, etc.) all work fine.
> 
> That's not a deal killer for me.  Currently, I run KDE Neon as my base OS, 
> and it works great -- but I don't pay much attention to security on it.  I 
> dual boot with Windows 10 for the PowerPoint thing, and now Qubes (on an 
> external hard drive) for fun and maybe more in the future.  I'm slowly moving 
> more and more of my work over to the Qubes installation.
> 
> Thinking back to the "old" linux days, it seemed that making linux an OS that 
> you *really* could use for everything took the involvement of some major 
> investors.  Linux had been bumping along at about 80% useful until a bunch of 
> major companies decided to start dumping money into development -- and then 
> it jumped to about 95% in just a couple of years.  Anyway, that's how I 
> remember it.
> 
> My impression is that Qubes is going to be a little like that.  The amount of 
> effort and talent it takes to pull off something like that is pretty mind 
> boggling.  With linux, you have people in the open source community who have 
> devoted 20 years to some damn little subsystem that nobody really thinks 
> about until they don't work.  How long did Eric Raymond work on fetchmail or 
> sed or gpsd?
> 
> Personally, I am stunned that the folk here have pulled this off as well as 
> they have.  And God bless them for it.  But there's an old saw in my business 
> that it's trivial to set up a system that works 80% of the time, easy to make 
> one that works 90% of the time, very, very hard to get to 95%, and almost 
> impossible to get to 99%.  What that means to me is that Qubes will likely 
> never be at that 99% as long as the people currently working on it are the 
> sum total of the resources devoted to it.  It will just very slowly creep up 
> now that they are dealing with the really hard, really labor intensive small 
> incremental stuff.
> 
> However, there's always the chance that a Canonical or Apache or Sun or 
> Oracle will come along and say "Hey, this is a good idea.  Let's dump a 
> hundred million bucks into it and see what happens."  Then it will move to 
> the next level.
> 
> I don't know, of course, but that's the pattern I've seen before.  In the 
> meantime, my solution is to use a very easy, but not all that secure, OS for 
> my graphics-intensive stuff, and don't do anything on it that I care about 
> security for.  Personally, I use KDE neon because I like KDE, but I'm also a 
> fan of fedora.  
> 
> The thing about security, though, is that almost all of the linux variants 
> are good "enough" for most things -- as long as you don't do something 
> stupid.  Qubes is good because it mitigates the damage when you do stupid 
> stuff, not really because it is this totally different linux.  
> Compartmentalization is great, but if you download apps from 
> "let_me_screw_with_your_computer.com", you will always have problems.  And 
> that behavioral stuff is where most problems come from now.  Look at the 
> recent arrests of folk on the dark web, or more recently the studies in 
> tracking bitcoin transactions.  How was this done?  Because people use the 
> same identifiers in the dark web for open transactions. There's no technology 
> that will save you from that kind of thing.
> 
> I have also started storing my data on the Qubes side of things, but that 
> requires booting into Qubes, copying to a flash drive, and then booting into 
> KDE neon.  Cheap laptops are pretty cheap now, so I'm thinking about dropping 
> $400 into another box and running Qubes on one and KDE neon on the other...

Glad to read this, it's always interesting 

[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Utility Panel]

On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 5:20:16 PM UTC-5, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> 
> I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> 
> So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> 
> I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> 
> I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> changed or will change in 4.x?
> 
> Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have to 
> look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> 
> I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file system 
> can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other problems.. And I 
> prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of leaning away from 
> Windows 10.
> 
> That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> secure it will be compared to Qubes?

Wow! @Yuraeitha & @billollib! Can we sticky these responses? I mean, I know 
this is a a distribution list and not a discussion forum, but daum! Wish I 
could write responses like yours.

I don't actually have much to add. I use Qubes for everything that I care 
about. I only use Windows for stuff that I use so seldom that I haven't figured 
out how to do it in Qubes. Insofar as I'm limited in Qubes, it's on account of 
my own laziness or real life issues rather than any inherent limitation in the 
OS. And I'm a total hack-job when it comes to computers in general, Linux, or 
Qubes OS in particular. How I wish I could take a good course in whatever makes 
Qubes tick! Alas, I'm just an end-user. Not much more to say. Just love Qubes. 
Don't need to do much else.

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[billollib]

I'm in a slightly similar situation.  I am a very new Qubes user and am in the 
process of getting used to it.  My impression is that Qubes right now is a 
little like linux in general in the 1990s.  I can remember running linux on my 
boxes and I could do about 70% of what I needed to do, but there was always 
something that I had to do in Windows.  Then 80%.  Then 90%.  Then 95%. And 
now, the *only* thing I use Windows for is to check my PowerPoint format 
lectures that I created with LibreOffice on linux to make sure that there are 
no font changes that screw up the screen formatting.  And I don't even do that 
if the venue allows me to use my own laptop for presentations.

So, the same thing seems to be true here.  The developers of this system have 
done an amazing job and have a tremendous idea.  But you always solve the big 
easy  problems first.   I have found that I can use Qubes for about 85% of what 
I want to do.  I can run LibreOffice, analytical programs, compilers, email, 
and surf the web.  Videos work fine out of the box for me.

What doesn't work is the 3D graphics.  I'm having an issue with some games, the 
Blender modeling program, Paraview, and stuff like that.  Image processing and 
image manipulation (e.g. GIMP, Hugin, etc.) all work fine.

That's not a deal killer for me.  Currently, I run KDE Neon as my base OS, and 
it works great -- but I don't pay much attention to security on it.  I dual 
boot with Windows 10 for the PowerPoint thing, and now Qubes (on an external 
hard drive) for fun and maybe more in the future.  I'm slowly moving more and 
more of my work over to the Qubes installation.

Thinking back to the "old" linux days, it seemed that making linux an OS that 
you *really* could use for everything took the involvement of some major 
investors.  Linux had been bumping along at about 80% useful until a bunch of 
major companies decided to start dumping money into development -- and then it 
jumped to about 95% in just a couple of years.  Anyway, that's how I remember 
it.

My impression is that Qubes is going to be a little like that.  The amount of 
effort and talent it takes to pull off something like that is pretty mind 
boggling.  With linux, you have people in the open source community who have 
devoted 20 years to some damn little subsystem that nobody really thinks about 
until they don't work.  How long did Eric Raymond work on fetchmail or sed or 
gpsd?

Personally, I am stunned that the folk here have pulled this off as well as 
they have.  And God bless them for it.  But there's an old saw in my business 
that it's trivial to set up a system that works 80% of the time, easy to make 
one that works 90% of the time, very, very hard to get to 95%, and almost 
impossible to get to 99%.  What that means to me is that Qubes will likely 
never be at that 99% as long as the people currently working on it are the sum 
total of the resources devoted to it.  It will just very slowly creep up now 
that they are dealing with the really hard, really labor intensive small 
incremental stuff.

However, there's always the chance that a Canonical or Apache or Sun or Oracle 
will come along and say "Hey, this is a good idea.  Let's dump a hundred 
million bucks into it and see what happens."  Then it will move to the next 
level.

I don't know, of course, but that's the pattern I've seen before.  In the 
meantime, my solution is to use a very easy, but not all that secure, OS for my 
graphics-intensive stuff, and don't do anything on it that I care about 
security for.  Personally, I use KDE neon because I like KDE, but I'm also a 
fan of fedora.  

The thing about security, though, is that almost all of the linux variants are 
good "enough" for most things -- as long as you don't do something stupid.  
Qubes is good because it mitigates the damage when you do stupid stuff, not 
really because it is this totally different linux.  Compartmentalization is 
great, but if you download apps from "let_me_screw_with_your_computer.com", you 
will always have problems.  And that behavioral stuff is where most problems 
come from now.  Look at the recent arrests of folk on the dark web, or more 
recently the studies in tracking bitcoin transactions.  How was this done?  
Because people use the same identifiers in the dark web for open transactions. 
There's no technology that will save you from that kind of thing.

I have also started storing my data on the Qubes side of things, but that 
requires booting into Qubes, copying to a flash drive, and then booting into 
KDE neon.  Cheap laptops are pretty cheap now, so I'm thinking about dropping 
$400 into another box and running Qubes on one and KDE neon on the other...

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Yuraeitha]

On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 11:20:16 PM UTC+1, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> 
> I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> 
> So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> 
> I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> 
> I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> changed or will change in 4.x?
> 
> Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have to 
> look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> 
> I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file system 
> can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other problems.. And I 
> prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of leaning away from 
> Windows 10.
> 
> That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> secure it will be compared to Qubes?

oh, I also installed Qubes on a small PC tied to a friends TV. It's waaay 
more secure than any Smart-TV you could ever buy.. :') I added some stuff like 
USB-Remote, and I'm planning to add a wireless numpad to execute pre-programmed 
commands such as automating alt+space+f for full-screen, switch sound and 
screen for multiple of TV screens, and stuff like this. Planning to add a 
hardware key, maybe a Yubi-key, so that whenever leaving the TV/desktop 
crossover system, is esentially locked-out from tampering. It's straight 
forward stuff, it doesn't take much to set up. Qubes isn't meant to be used as 
a Smart-TV, but it actually works quite well. If you're tired of insecure 
SmartTV's, then this should be a nice add too.

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Yuraeitha]

On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 11:20:16 PM UTC+1, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> 
> I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> 
> So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> 
> I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> 
> I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> changed or will change in 4.x?
> 
> Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have to 
> look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> 
> I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file system 
> can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other problems.. And I 
> prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of leaning away from 
> Windows 10.
> 
> That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> secure it will be compared to Qubes?

Also the question you ask regarding virtual machines, Qubes in and on it self 
is a massive virtual machine. You can install any Operation System you like in 
Qubes OS. You can install Win7, Win8, Win10, however only Win7 has support and 
drivers to make it run smoothly with Qubes OS, and currently, it only works for 
Qubes 3.2. and only somewhat on Qubes 4.0 if you transfer an existing Win7 
install over from your old Qubes 3.2. 

You can also install Android, though, similar to the above, it lacks some 
development to make the mouse act like a mouse input for touch. Though, 
installing all these third party OS systems is no issue at all, it works just 
fine. What is lacking however, is the support for mouse-pointer, screen-size 
and such things. But if you enjoy the terminal as you said, then some of these 
things you might be able to fix yourself. And these issues are only stuff you 
bring in yourself, anything out-of-the-box in Qubes (fedora, debian, whonix) 
should work just fine. 

I haven't tried many types of OS installs, but I believe you can make most 
Linux systems work on Qubes in similar fashions as to the out-of-the-box if you 
can build and compile the code yourself with the Qubes tools included. Heck, 
you can get Ubuntu working, though it's not included by default due to license 
issues, so you need to do it yourself or find someone that did it unofficially 
(which is available for Qubes if you look for the unofficially).

AppImages also works just fine on Qubes, both fedora and debian. For example I 
use AppImage from CollateNote and Wire (the new open source chat application). 
Works just fine, no problems, just like any other Linux system. It may lack a 
shortcut in Qubes's menu's, but you can easily make that yourself, it's very 
straight forward to build a one-liner command for it.

Also I've seen people get docker working too, but it's unofficial stuff as 
well. 

Virtualbox and the likes? I haven't heard or tried on Qubes, but frankly I 
don't think you'll need it here. 

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[qubes-users] Re: Do you use Qubes OS as your main OS on primary PC? What kind of work do you get done on it?

[Yuraeitha]

On Friday, February 9, 2018 at 11:20:16 PM UTC+1, lemond...@gmail.com wrote:
> Without support for hardware acceleration of virtual machines, plus needing 
> specific hardware compatible with Qubes OS, what kinds of work do you get 
> done if Qubes is your main OS on primary PC?
> 
> I want to run Davinci Resolve, which is a video editor that runs on Linux, 
> but it takes advantage of the discrete GPU, and it seems Qubes does not 
> support hardware acceleration nor virtual machines.
> 
> So, I'm curious, for those who use Qubes, what actual work do you get done?
> 
> I've also tried playing youtube videos but found audio out of sync and I 
> could not resize or maximize the playback window.
> 
> I may have tried the second to latest version released so maybe things have 
> changed or will change in 4.x?
> 
> Not being able to run VMs, Davinci Resolve, or youtube are making me have to 
> look at other options like OS X, Windows 10, and Linux.
> 
> I was leaning towards OS X but enabling case sensitivity for the file system 
> can break certain apps like those from Adobe, or cause other problems.. And I 
> prefer linux/unix like command-lines to DOS, so kind of leaning away from 
> Windows 10.
> 
> That leaves Linux distros like Debian, Mint, e bv  But I'm wondering how 
> secure it will be compared to Qubes?

As I perceive the current world, which I try to stay objective true to in an 
attempt to avoid bias, is that Qubes OS is leaps ahead any other distro in 
terms of security, for everyday use and convenience types of systems. You may 
use Tails and the likes, however none come close to Qubes OS for everyday life 
application uses, and even then, Qubes OS is really secure when compared to 
those others niece uses like Tails. I don't think it's overestimating to say 
Qubes OS simply has no current competition, it's leaps ahead any other system 
out there, a very new way of thinking which no one else is applying. But this 
is not my profession and I'm no expert, but I do follow what's going on in this 
environment as much as I can as a regular normal user.

Many of your listed concerns are not a problem and can be fixed, except 
discrete high-end GPU's, however something that is being worked regarding 
exactly that issue. If successful, then you may very well see high-end discrete 
graphics in Qubes sooner or later, maybe, if you're lucky, as soon as the next 
4.1. But I'm neither an expert, nor an inside, nor has there been any official 
messages about this, however if you go stalk public channels on github, you can 
see some interesting proof of concepts being worked on for Qubes 4.1. discrete 
graphics for a single AppVM only, which won't compromise security of the rest 
of the system.

I've been using Qubes OS since well over 1½ year now, and I've used it for 
pretty much everything, except high-end graphics related applications as you're 
also asking about. But most normal use-cases and browsing needs for graphics 
works just fine, you should not have issues with YouTube, it seems like you got 
a bad codec though.

I know you're a Linux user, so I apologize if I write a bit condescending by 
writing extra details below. I'm not, it's just the way I write, I apologize in 
advance.

If you got issues with YouTube, try this, see if it works better for you, on 
all my Qubes OS systems, at least YouTube runs smoothly.

First you might want to download fedora version 26 if you got 25 which is not 
not updated anymore. There is an easy straight forward single command that will 
do that for you, but it takes a while to download and install, since it's a 
full OS in and on itself. Take a break while it runs, you won't have to do 
anything in-between start-end.

in dom0 terminal: sudo qubes-dom0-update qubes-template-fedora-26

Once you got it downloaded, installed, and it reported finished, then proceed 
by opening the fedora-26 terminal, update it fully. Make sure it's shutdown 
again once finished. Then you do;

In dom0 terminal: qvm-clone fedora-26 fedora-26-apps" 
or whichever name you want to give your clone.

Then open up the fedora-26-apps terminal and type in;
sudo dnf config-manager --set-enabled rpmfusion-free rpmfusion-nonfree
sudo dnf upgrade --refresh

Now you can simply install FFmpeg (For HTML5 that for example allow firefox to 
play HTML5 videos), VLC, and other useful playback and codecs from RPM-Fusion 
in your template.

sudo dnf install FFmpeg
sudo dnf install vlc

Shutdown your new template, and then create a new AppVM based on it. Now you 
should ab able to play any HTML5 content, try open Firefox and type in 
www.youtube.com/html5 and see if everything looks like it should work.

Now protected content, such as HTML5 protected content, you will probably need 
stuff like DRM. DRM sometimes work in firefox. 

If you run into DRM, Silverlight (Pipe etc) issues, in terms of copyright 
protection, then you can download Goolgle-Chrome from google's own website, 
which should run most things