Re: [RBW] Re: 26.0 bar in 25.4 clamp?

[Peter Adler]

Not to pile on here, but reaming out the clamp area of this stem (or 
really, of any stem) sounds like a Very Unwise Idea. If you compare the 
thickness of the handlebar clamps of a 26.0 Nitto stem and a 25.4 Nitto 
stem, you'll see that the metal is the same thickness. You think maybe 
Nitto knows what they're doing? You think maybe the reason they're not 
reaming bigger bores in the clamps for 26.0 stems is because all that metal 
they forge in is necessary for safety?

Modifying a stem that's only available in a single clamp size is 
problematic, but conceptually understandable; that's why Nitto makes shims 
to fit 25.4/26.0 bars into 26.0/31.8 stems. But the Nitto Technomic is not 
a one-clamp-only stem. Nitto has already made hundreds of thousands of 
stems that are sized exactly right for your need. Doctoring a Technomic is 
a pointless effort; it's also penny wise and pound foolish. Both 25.4 and 
26.0 Technomics are common as dirt (the successor Talluxes are somewhat 
less so); this eBay search 

 
brings up 60 examples in various reaches from $40-65 shipped. What are your 
teeth worth to you?

Me, I buy my Nitto stems at swap meets. I've had four or five Technomics in 
both 25.4 and 26.0 over the years; I don't think I've ever paid more than 
fifteen bucks for any of them. At least three of my current stable are 
using such recycled stems now.

Here's a thought: Why don't you just post a want-to-buy for the stem you 
need right here (include both clamp size *and* reach, which you haven't 
mentioned at all), and see what shakes out? Your unshattered bones and 
unshredded flesh will thank you.

Peter "my body feels sharp, localized pain just reading this thread" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:03:46 AM UTC-7 lconley wrote:

Personally, I would just buy the correct stem.

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Re: [RBW] Craigslist, etc 2023

[Sam McDermott]

Hunqapillar 58cm
$2300
Philadelphia area (Phoenixville)
https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/bik/d/phoenixville-rivendell-hunqapillar/7647790163.html

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:05:22 PM UTC-4 Will M wrote:

> Hi all.  Along lines of this thread, my 62cm orange Quickbeam is for sale 
> on eBay right now 
> .
>   
> Auction ends Sunday. Happy to do local pickup or ship.
>
> --Will M
> NYC
>
>
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 6:41:59 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> Looks like a brand new 55cm Platy frame.
>>
>> https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/301092715785068/
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 4:55:42 PM UTC-4 Hoch in ut wrote:
>>
>>> This appears to be an excellent deal. 51cm Appaloosa complete for $1,850
>>>
>>> https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/72490781
>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 10:34:54 AM UTC-6 JAS wrote:
>>>
  7 Rivs on Craiglsist in the Northwest:

 *Appaloosa,  47cm*
 Prototype, frame built by Mark Nobilette
 $3200
 Silverdale, WA

 https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/bik/d/silverdale-2015-rivendell-joe-appaloosa/7641501704.html

 *Appaloosa frame set, 46cm*
 $1200
 blue
 Silverdale, WA

 https://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/bik/d/silverdale-rivendell-joe-appaloosa/7642198706.html

 *Appaloosa, 54cm*
 $3400
 orange
 Central Point, OR

 https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/central-point-rivendell-appaloosa-54cm/7639357342.html

 *Ram, 54cm (or 56cm?)*
 $1900
 orange
 Central Point, OR

 https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/central-point-rivendell-rambouillet-1st/7639406959.html

 *Susie/Wolbis XL frameset*
 $1775
 Eugene, OR
 lime-olive

 https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/eugene-new-rivendell-xl-susie-wolbis/7636146396.html

 *Hubuhhubuh, small*
 $3700
 Sequim, WA

 https://olympic.craigslist.org/bik/d/sequim-rivendell-hubbuhubbuh-tandem/7642793863.html

 *Bleriot, 46cm*
 $1000
 Deer Park, WA (near Spokane)

 https://spokane.craigslist.org/bik/d/deer-park-rivendell-bleriot/7639080253.html
 On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 6:51:13 AM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:

> Another All Rounder, beautiful and in my size - so tempting, but the 
> timing is not right. I was in touch with the owner who also has a 
> Bombadil, 
> very nice guy.
>
> 2004 59cm Rivendell All-Rounder
> Curt Goodrich built frame USA
> Joe Bell paint
> 26” wheels
> $3K
> SF, CA
>
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bik/d/san-francisco-rivendell-all-rounder/7642699971.html
>
> Max
>
> On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 8:39:52 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-07-13 at 8.38.46 AM.png]
>>
>> Rivendell All Rounder, 54cm 
>> Waterford-built
>> $3,000
>> Sellwood Cycle. Portland, OR 
>>
>> https://sellwoodcycle.com/collections/used-bikes/products/54cm-rivendell-all-arounder
>>
>> On Thursday, June 29, 2023 at 2:10:25 AM UTC-4 kw wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> https://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/d/new-york-rivendell-atlantis-53cm/7635482928.html
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 1:38:33 PM UTC-4 jad...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>

 https://missoula.craigslist.org/bik/d/missoula-rivendell-sam-hillborne-60cm/7633643955.html
 On Wednesday, June 14, 2023 at 9:57:41 AM UTC-6 RichS wrote:

> Valerie,
>
> The description says it was built in Japan, so Toyo origin. It 
> would have come with 26" wheels; must be a conversion.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 10:44:27 AM UTC-4 Valerie Yates wrote:
>
>> Re the Atlantis 53, did Riv sell a 650B version in that size or 
>> was it a conversion? I have one and it has 26” wheels.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 7:18:41 AM UTC-6 Hoch in ut wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Toyo Atlantis size 53. 650b with dynamo (F). This looks like a 
>>> fantastic deal. I have no relation to the seller. Just happen to 
>>> see it. 
>>>
>>> https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/72037052
>>> On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 4:17:54 PM UTC-6 Kainalu V. 
>>> -Brooklyn NY wrote:
>>>
 64cm top tube on that Clem, but not a 64cm frame. Biggies in 
 the H came in at 65cm. This one above is probably a 59?
 -Kai (who saw the most beautiful red Quickbeam this morning on 
 the Queensboro bridge, who’s owner said “you haven’t sold that 
 yet?”, 
 regarding my Rosco, to which I replied “It’s the other Rosco I’ve 
 been 
 

Re: [RBW] Re: Early 80's Specialized Sequoia

[Stephen]

Hey Erik!

Fun to see that old sequoia pop up on here, still got a soft spot in my 
heart for that bike! Good memories..

Cheers,

Stephen

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 2:04:33 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 11:09:06 PM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:
>
> Just so y’all know, TD is kind of a local legend. He is, after all, one of 
> Richard Schwinn’s best pals.
>
>
> Anyone who read Grant's Blahg entry on the closing of Waterford will know 
> that Richard Schwinn has more best pals than just about anyone you can 
> name. I happen to be lucky enough to live near him and his true best pal, 
> his wife, Shoe. And I get to see them regularly at Milwaukee Symphony 
> Orchestra concerts.
>
> Regarding my Waterford  keep your eyes out for the next issue of 
> American Randonneur.
>
>  Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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[RBW] ISO: Sugino PX Crankset

[Johnny Alien]

This might be a long shot but I am checking to see if they have a Sugino PC 
crank they are looking to get rid of. Preferably 165 but 170 would be OK as 
well.

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Mike Packard]

Just a plug for the wonderful site https://whatbars.com/ that lets you pick 
different handlebars and overlay them in a way that makes it really easy to 
compare width and reach and everything. It has the Albatross and Bosco, 
which is close enough to Tosco to see how different they are.

Mike


On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 8:29:36 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> I appreciate the confirmation that Albatross has less reach than my Tosco. 
> I thought that was the case but wanted to be sure before I ordered one.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:00:55 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> Doug,  From the diagrams the Albatross bar has a whopping 2-1/2" ... 
>> yes inches less reach than the Tosco !  Yes, good choice ! 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> Garth,
>> I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're 
>> suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my 
>> legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than 
>> the Toscos?
>> Doug
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Doug H.]

I appreciate the confirmation that Albatross has less reach than my Tosco. 
I thought that was the case but wanted to be sure before I ordered one.
Doug

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:00:55 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Doug,  From the diagrams the Albatross bar has a whopping 2-1/2" ... 
> yes inches less reach than the Tosco !  Yes, good choice ! 
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
> Garth,
> I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're 
> suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my 
> legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than 
> the Toscos?
> Doug
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Tried and liked: Suntour Cyclone pretzel

[Wesley]

Possibly dumb question: have you taken a good look at your chain? It ay be 
kinked, which would cause skipping gears.
-Wes

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:04:01 PM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Andre attempted to make some further adjustments, the chain still skips. I 
> tried installing a Deore XT M771 and that was a little bit better but the 
> chain still skips. 
>
> I called Riv and talked to Grant who was eager to see some pictures. Will 
> has a new dropout heading to me by mail, now I just need to find someone 
> who can braze the new dropout on. The framebuilder I know has transitioned 
> from building bikes to chartering boats! 
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:43:30 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Yesterday I brought the frame to my LBS, Bike Works and handed it over 
>> to trusted mechanic Andre. He bent the hanger, aligned the dropouts and 
>> aligned the hanger. The hanger alignment tool showed the hanger was in 
>> plane with the rim. Amazingly the hole took a derailer bolt just fine. It 
>> looks terrible but functionality seemed promising. This was all I cared 
>> about.
>>
>> You can see the hole is terribly elongated. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_6872.JPG] 
>>
>> [image: IMG_6871.JPG]
>>
>> Here's my wavy hanger.
>>
>> [image: IMG_6880.JPG]
>>
>> Fortunately I have a small collection of Cyclones to draw from. The last 
>> one I mangled was beautiful old stock. This one here is almost as nice. 
>>
>> The bike shifted fine in the stand. But on the road and under load the 
>> chain skips in the smallest four cogs. 
>>
>> Tomorrow I'll take it back to Andre and see if he can't finesse it into 
>> shape. 
>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:38:04 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick: Sorry about that Fargo but glad to hear it could be repaired. 
>>> Replaceable hangers seem helpful!
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 10:41:41 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 And: I had Chauncey Matthews use a replaceable hanger when he built the 
 replacement for the Fargo.

 On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 8:38 AM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> FWIW, I had a similar experience with a Fargo when a stick jammed the 
> rd: the hangar was bent 90* inward (and jammed into the cassette; no 
> single-speeding home). The good news, and the point: a LBS was able to 
> unbend the rd to usable status again. The replacement rd worked fine. Of 
> course, YMMV.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 7:50 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Many thanks, John. I'll check out the spokes. 
>>
>> I've been texting with my local mechanic friend, Andre. We're going 
>> to try and bend the hanger and see how close we can get it. Considering 
>> a 
>> drop out saver from Wheels Mfg. 
>>
>> If that fails I'll see about having a new dropout installed. I gotta 
>> call Will when Riv opens!
>>
>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:36:56 AM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>>
>>> Wow Eric, that was a bad one, glad your ok and the Sam is on the 
>>> mend. Don't forget to check the spokes for nicks, could break easy if 
>>> they 
>>> are.
>>>
>>> JohnS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:54:06 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 Wow. That's wild. Glad you're ok. Bummer about the Sam, that's a 
 beautiful bike.

 On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 9:08:55 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Thanks Brian and Danny! 
>
> I got the mech freed. The parallelogram housing is twisted, too. 
> The limit screws aren't in plane, they're twisted! It's a huge mess. 
> Still 
> have many good screws, bolts and springs worth saving. Jockey wheels, 
> too. 
> I'll leave it as-is and pull parts from it as needed. 
>
> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 8:19:03 PM UTC-4 Danny wrote:
>
>> Sorry about the hanger damage, but good to hear that you're ok. 
>> Even in its pretzelized state, it's a good looking derailer 
>> sculpture!
>>
>> -Danny
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 6:42 PM Brian Turner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m just over here hungry for pretzels.
>>>
>>> Seriously though, glad you’re ok, and I’m sorry about your Sam’s 
>>> hanger. I’m sure it’ll be up and running strong again soon.
>>>
>>> On Jul 23, 2023, at 6:57 PM, Eric Marth  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks, Jim. Just a bit of my own patented brand of sarcasm ;) 
>>>
>>> The damage is waaay out of proportion to the fall. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 5:57:30 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>>
 Wow... the most important thing is that you're fine, Eric. The 
 bike stuff is "just" bike stuff, repairable or replaceable.

 I saw your subject line 

[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto Boscomoose Fillet Brazed, Campy QR Seat Post Binder

[jaredwilson]

Boscomoose sold, Campy binder still available.

On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 1:11:08 PM UTC-7 jaredwilson wrote:

> and a couple parts now available
>
> Nitto/Rivendell Boscomoose, 58cm, fillet brazed - $175 + shipping
>
> Campagnolo quick release seat post binder, bought new but didn't fit on 
> Platypus - $20 + shipping
>
> PHOTOS 
> 
>
> Please respond off list, thanks :)
>
> jared
>

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Re: [RBW] Tried and liked: Suntour Cyclone pretzel

[Eric Marth]

Andre attempted to make some further adjustments, the chain still skips. I 
tried installing a Deore XT M771 and that was a little bit better but the 
chain still skips. 

I called Riv and talked to Grant who was eager to see some pictures. Will 
has a new dropout heading to me by mail, now I just need to find someone 
who can braze the new dropout on. The framebuilder I know has transitioned 
from building bikes to chartering boats! 

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:43:30 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:

> Yesterday I brought the frame to my LBS, Bike Works and handed it over 
> to trusted mechanic Andre. He bent the hanger, aligned the dropouts and 
> aligned the hanger. The hanger alignment tool showed the hanger was in 
> plane with the rim. Amazingly the hole took a derailer bolt just fine. It 
> looks terrible but functionality seemed promising. This was all I cared 
> about.
>
> You can see the hole is terribly elongated. 
>
> [image: IMG_6872.JPG] 
>
> [image: IMG_6871.JPG]
>
> Here's my wavy hanger.
>
> [image: IMG_6880.JPG]
>
> Fortunately I have a small collection of Cyclones to draw from. The last 
> one I mangled was beautiful old stock. This one here is almost as nice. 
>
> The bike shifted fine in the stand. But on the road and under load the 
> chain skips in the smallest four cogs. 
>
> Tomorrow I'll take it back to Andre and see if he can't finesse it into 
> shape. 
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:38:04 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Patrick: Sorry about that Fargo but glad to hear it could be repaired. 
>> Replaceable hangers seem helpful!
>>
>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 10:41:41 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> And: I had Chauncey Matthews use a replaceable hanger when he built the 
>>> replacement for the Fargo.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 8:38 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 FWIW, I had a similar experience with a Fargo when a stick jammed the 
 rd: the hangar was bent 90* inward (and jammed into the cassette; no 
 single-speeding home). The good news, and the point: a LBS was able to 
 unbend the rd to usable status again. The replacement rd worked fine. Of 
 course, YMMV.



 On Mon, Jul 24, 2023 at 7:50 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Many thanks, John. I'll check out the spokes. 
>
> I've been texting with my local mechanic friend, Andre. We're going to 
> try and bend the hanger and see how close we can get it. Considering a 
> drop 
> out saver from Wheels Mfg. 
>
> If that fails I'll see about having a new dropout installed. I gotta 
> call Will when Riv opens!
>
> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 8:36:56 AM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>
>> Wow Eric, that was a bad one, glad your ok and the Sam is on the 
>> mend. Don't forget to check the spokes for nicks, could break easy if 
>> they 
>> are.
>>
>> JohnS
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 7:54:06 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. That's wild. Glad you're ok. Bummer about the Sam, that's a 
>>> beautiful bike.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 9:08:55 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Brian and Danny! 

 I got the mech freed. The parallelogram housing is twisted, too. 
 The limit screws aren't in plane, they're twisted! It's a huge mess. 
 Still 
 have many good screws, bolts and springs worth saving. Jockey wheels, 
 too. 
 I'll leave it as-is and pull parts from it as needed. 

 On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 8:19:03 PM UTC-4 Danny wrote:

> Sorry about the hanger damage, but good to hear that you're ok. 
> Even in its pretzelized state, it's a good looking derailer 
> sculpture!
>
> -Danny
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 23, 2023 at 6:42 PM Brian Turner  
> wrote:
>
>> I’m just over here hungry for pretzels.
>>
>> Seriously though, glad you’re ok, and I’m sorry about your Sam’s 
>> hanger. I’m sure it’ll be up and running strong again soon.
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2023, at 6:57 PM, Eric Marth  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Jim. Just a bit of my own patented brand of sarcasm ;) 
>>
>> The damage is waaay out of proportion to the fall. 
>>
>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 5:57:30 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Wow... the most important thing is that you're fine, Eric. The 
>>> bike stuff is "just" bike stuff, repairable or replaceable.
>>>
>>> I saw your subject line and glanced at the pic before reading 
>>> your story, and at first I thought, "dang, did he get that thing to 
>>> actually work?!?"
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 5:30:46 PM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Dustin: To answer your question, hell no! 

[RBW] Re: Best Riv Rando Bike

[Nick Payne]

On Thursday, 27 July 2023 at 1:31:57 am UTC+10 Ed Felker wrote:

This is an interesting question. I rode PBP in 2007 on my coupled Riv 
Bleriot and was comfortable the whole way on Grand Bois 32mm tires. it was 
a fair bit more forgiving than the stiffer Ritchey Logic 700c I rode in 
1999 with 23mm tires. I'm on tandem for PBP this year but if I were to ride 
PBP solo again, I'd take the Bleriot with 38mm tires.


Same here on the Bleriot. I've ridden multiple brevets on mine, mostly shod 
with the Hutchinson  "Confrérie des 650B" tyres.

Nick Payne

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Garth]

Doug,  From the diagrams the Albatross bar has a whopping 2-1/2" ... 
yes inches less reach than the Tosco !  Yes, good choice ! 


On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

Garth,
I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're 
suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my 
legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than 
the Toscos?
Doug


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Re: [RBW] Cargo/Kid bike recommendations (or bikefriday vs. tern)

[Edwin W]

Drew,

Where are you? Depending on the family bike scene near you, Facebook 
marketplace or craigslist might have some deals. When I sold my cargo bikes 
in Nashville, I sold then to someone from 4-5 hours away each time, so it 
is often worth it to spread your radius if you don't find something local.

Good luck,

Edwin

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 3:56:26 PM UTC-5 Drw wrote:

> Thanks for all the thoughts and feedback. It's unfortunate that there are 
> so few non electric options these days, but helpful to know which older 
> models to keep an eye out for. I did discover that Yuba has a version of 
> the Kombi that isn't electric and about the same price as the Tern. Bike 
> Friday would end up being at least 1000$ more, so I'm leaning toward the 
> Yuba or Kombi. 
>
> On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 1:56:29 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It amuses me that the difference in wheelbase length between my medium 
>> Big Dummy and my medium Gus is only 9”. 
>>
>> On Jul 22, 2023, at 12:53 PM, Eric Daume  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> You could look for an old Kona MinUte. Kind of a short cargo bike. There 
>> was another model like this, but I can't remember what it was.
>> Eric
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 21, 2023 at 1:49 PM Drw  wrote:
>>
>> For the last 4 years I've been carrying my kid and all of our family's 
>>> gear on a rosco bubbe mountain step-thru with crust clydesdale fork. 
>>
>> 
>>> Overall, it's been great, but as he gets bigger, having that amount of 
>>> weight, that high up, plus a decent load up front is starting to feel 
>>> really wiggly. I had early on thought that my son would be riding a bike 
>>> well enough to transition to one of those tag a long attachments like the 
>>> burley piccolo, but he has some sensory issues with balance and gross motor 
>>> that will probably make that not a real possibility before he is big enough 
>>> to just be riding fully on his own. 
>>>
>>> So, I'm looking for a compact cargo bike with the following 
>>> requirements. 
>>> -Non electric
>>> -Footprint no bigger than a standard bike 
>>> -Platform/bench rear seat for kids
>>> -Some front cargo capability
>>> -uses deraillers (though i could be swayed to an IGH)
>>>
>>> Right now I am mostly looking at the bike friday haul-a-day elite 
>>> and
>>>  
>>> the tern short haul D8 
>>> . Both have 
>>> pros and cons. I am open to any other cool options. And any thoughts about 
>>> the above models would be appreciated as well. 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Drew
>>>
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Johnny Alien]

Albatross definitely do not come back as far as tosco bars. I think it 
would be a good choice for what you are describing.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:17:25 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> I should have said more reach than my Toscos? I want bars that come back 
> slightly less.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Garth,
>> I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're 
>> suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my 
>> legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than 
>> the Toscos?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 6:09:02 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  
>>> Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the 
>>> Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post 
>>> capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, 
>>> if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong 
>>> direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It 
>>> seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. 
>>> Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the 
>>> saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.
>>>
>>> From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright 
>>> doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes 
>>> rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something 
>>> that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. 
>>> With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that 
>>> simply isn't. 
>>>
>>> A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm 
>>> too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or 
>>> sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm 
>>> too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? 
>>> Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to 
>>> been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving 
>>> saddle forward to an optimal place, hark . I find myself able to 
>>> effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the 
>>> pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Best Riv Rando Bike

[Jason Fuller]

Eric - PBP on a fixed QB, wow, nice work!  I had done some 100 mile rides 
on a fixed gear around the same time but nothing like that. 

I would say that which Rivendell works best (and whether a Rivendell at all 
is the right call) depends on your randonneuring aspirations and 
priorities. I have only done a half dozen 200k's so far, so I'm just a 
dabbler, but my Hillborne is perfectly suited for me despite being heavier 
and slower than a Ram, presumably. My only complaint is that they should 
have put third water bottle bosses under the DT; I added my own. But I am 
not trying to get a competitive time - I am happy being 9:30 - 11:00h 
finishing time on a 200.  I appreciate the 42mm tires with fenders and the 
forgiveness they provide.  If I was more competitive I'd probably dip into 
the back catalog for a Ram, Saluki, earlier Homer, or Bleriot.

On Wednesday, 26 July 2023 at 12:42:02 UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The roadini doesn't have front rack braze-ons. But saddlebags or 
> bikepacking style bags would definitely work.
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 12:15 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>
>> The Roadini is worth some consideration.  Many people finish PBP on 
>> carbon fiber racing bikes, so you could definitely do it with a Roadini and 
>> have a much more comfortable and pleasant ride.  The Roadini is probably 
>> better (for me) than the Roadeo because it accommodates wider tires. If I 
>> were considering a current production bike, then that might be my choice as 
>> it balances speed and comfort.
>>
>> I can't remember if the Roadini has braze-ons for a front rack, but I had 
>> no problem with a Mark's rack and p-clamps on my Ram and didn't have any 
>> handling issues (I shared weight with a saddlebag, so it wasn't "front 
>> loaded").  Many people ride with a handlebar bag (without rack) for food 
>> and use a saddlebag for everything else.  It is nice to stuff layers into 
>> the front rack "rando" bag without having to stop, but (obviously) it is 
>> not necessary.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Toshi
>>
>> -- 
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>> .
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Doug H.]

I should have said more reach than my Toscos? I want bars that come back 
slightly less.
Doug

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 4:16:27 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Garth,
> I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're 
> suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my 
> legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than 
> the Toscos?
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 6:09:02 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  
>> Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the 
>> Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post 
>> capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, 
>> if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong 
>> direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It 
>> seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. 
>> Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the 
>> saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.
>>
>> From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright 
>> doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes 
>> rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something 
>> that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. 
>> With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that 
>> simply isn't. 
>>
>> A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm 
>> too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or 
>> sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm 
>> too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? 
>> Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to 
>> been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving 
>> saddle forward to an optimal place, hark . I find myself able to 
>> effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the 
>> pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Doug H.]

Garth,
I may try bars with less reach than my Tosco bars to do just what you're 
suggesting. I don't want to sit farther back and change the angle of my 
legs to pedals. Would you say the Albatross bars have less way back than 
the Toscos?
Doug

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 6:09:02 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  
> Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the 
> Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post 
> capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, 
> if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong 
> direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It 
> seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. 
> Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the 
> saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.
>
> From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright 
> doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes 
> rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something 
> that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. 
> With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that 
> simply isn't. 
>
> A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm 
> too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or 
> sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm 
> too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? 
> Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to 
> been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving 
> saddle forward to an optimal place, hark . I find myself able to 
> effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the 
> pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto Big Back Rack 33R & Sackville Olive Bar Tube Handlebar Bag

[Daniel Rooke]

Rack is sold.  Open to offers for the bag.  

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 3:33:11 PM UTC-6 Daniel Rooke wrote:

> Going to revise to say $60 shipped for the bag.
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 1:37:21 PM UTC-6 Daniel Rooke wrote:
>
>> Both are in good condition.  The bar tube bag has very little wear; the 
>> rack shows signs of use.  The rack is also the older iteration with the 
>> hanging tabs for panniers.  All hardware included.  Please see photos for 
>> detailed view of their condition.  
>>
>> Rack is $170 and Bag is $60
>>
>> Shipping for bar tube bag will be $10.20 for a small flat rate USPS 
>> Priority Mail Box.
>>
>> Shipping for rack will be UPS.  I have a box so can give an accurate 
>> quote if you send me a zip code.  Shipping is expensive for these larger 
>> items even though it isn't that heavy.  
>>
>> Can ship both for the price of the rack, since the bag can just be 
>> included in that box.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Photos 
>> 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best Riv Rando Bike

[藍俊彪]

The roadini doesn't have front rack braze-ons. But saddlebags or
bikepacking style bags would definitely work.

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 12:15 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> The Roadini is worth some consideration.  Many people finish PBP on carbon
> fiber racing bikes, so you could definitely do it with a Roadini and have a
> much more comfortable and pleasant ride.  The Roadini is probably better
> (for me) than the Roadeo because it accommodates wider tires. If I were
> considering a current production bike, then that might be my choice as it
> balances speed and comfort.
>
> I can't remember if the Roadini has braze-ons for a front rack, but I had
> no problem with a Mark's rack and p-clamps on my Ram and didn't have any
> handling issues (I shared weight with a saddlebag, so it wasn't "front
> loaded").  Many people ride with a handlebar bag (without rack) for food
> and use a saddlebag for everything else.  It is nice to stuff layers into
> the front rack "rando" bag without having to stop, but (obviously) it is
> not necessary.
>
> Good luck,
> Toshi
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Best Riv Rando Bike

[Toshi Takeuchi]

The Roadini is worth some consideration.  Many people finish PBP on carbon
fiber racing bikes, so you could definitely do it with a Roadini and have a
much more comfortable and pleasant ride.  The Roadini is probably better
(for me) than the Roadeo because it accommodates wider tires. If I were
considering a current production bike, then that might be my choice as it
balances speed and comfort.

I can't remember if the Roadini has braze-ons for a front rack, but I had
no problem with a Mark's rack and p-clamps on my Ram and didn't have any
handling issues (I shared weight with a saddlebag, so it wasn't "front
loaded").  Many people ride with a handlebar bag (without rack) for food
and use a saddlebag for everything else.  It is nice to stuff layers into
the front rack "rando" bag without having to stop, but (obviously) it is
not necessary.

Good luck,
Toshi

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Leah Peterson]

Hi Garth,This is for my Platy. The bars are good and everything fits so well, but I just feel like sitting back a little bit. The tall Nitto stem I have is the longest stem they make, so I can’t fix that. The regular Nittos don’t allow for as high of a bar, and I love where my bars sit. I don’t want to cut off the Billie Bar ends, but I suppose I could if I had to. So, that led me to the seat post. The way I’ve got it is now perfect, but if I “shrink” as I age, I will want to bring the saddle a bit lower to the ground, and I can’t. The Riv IRD post has a thickening up at the clamp that requires like 5 inches of post exposed.On Jul 26, 2023, at 6:09 AM, Garth  wrote:Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that simply isn't. A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving saddle forward to an optimal place, hark . I find myself able to effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !



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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Leah Peterson]

I wish, Ray! It’s the way the post thickens at the top; you can’t force it any lower.On Jul 26, 2023, at 12:15 AM, Ray Varella  wrote:Leah,   Would cutting a couple inches off your seatpost solve your problem?A 350mm long seatpost is pretty long and likely intended for frames with very extreme slope to the top tubeStandard Rivendell issue seatposts measure 250 mm from the seat clamp to the end of the shaft. 350mm would add approximately 4 inches to the length. Does that help clarify your question?Ray On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 9:01:32 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:Leah,I do not know an answer for your question. I did own an older version of the IRD Wayback seat post only to discover that I could not get the seat post down far enough to my liking on my Clem. I sold the post. My next move was to find and buy a Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 27.2mm post with a shim to fit my 29.8mm seat tube.  I have had these posts on other bikes of mine in the past. I did find one on eBay late last year and bought it. It solved a number of problems for me. One was the amount of setback I wanted and secondly, I could set the post down a lot farther than I could than with the IRD Wayback post.  I remain very happy and pleased to this day with my long torso and short limbs. May I suggest that you buy a Sakae Ringyo MTE-100 seat post off of eBay with a shim. I do not know how much setback you need. I know it may not be the most pretty post, but it solves some problems that I had. https://www.ebay.com/itm/266342844000?hash=item3e03454660:g:frAAAOSwo81kmkUz=enc%3AAQAI8FLf%2FUeKjieKezFbVz6E9gAvKDh5HcoG4VtgU1iFW1NWJlrtlB8aYsomq%2FYB8kFjNEmIJZ7CJ4nQahP8fzyDoHavsHhcO2LwqhfxAJrSBKgR80ofpTP54ZjWbfYdRid7uciTYf4BOhd244iPZbPLcmdTzQLGOxptIGt7rApnbIY5yUiDBghaCQRn1Ci%2F0mS173o4kIWrxOtpCHwQVWuR1AHrztBe%2BTDTMlniIK77f%2FrUYuDI4NyxDtm5MoiCPm82jMCnAbU9ZVjHHw61%2BbP14LSz8ZqMh5wTXORNvUi%2BSjvE3Z%2BU3TK7ppru64Sb9n%2Fz%2Bg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8b_7YOyYgTrying to help.I put a piece of white tape on the upper part of the post to mark as a stopping point of insertion as shown in the picture. Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 5:32:54 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Does anyone know if you can get the seatpost lower with the new design? My IRD post from Riv needs 5 inches and I’ve got it totally slammed. It would be nice to know I had a post I could put a little lower. Also, the product page shows lengths of 250-350mm and the way I read it, it is measuring the shaft of the seat post, not the setback? How would one know which length to choose?LeahOn Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 3:55:06 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:Very Good Max ! I got the Soma email that showed the seatpost and noticed it looked different, as it was. It's been redesigned with a new forged head and now is 30mm setback rather than the 50mm. Just so anyone ordering the post understand IRD doesn't make the previous version anymore. Read the fine print ! On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 2:58:18 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote:Things are working for me without swapping seatposts and simply by pushing my saddle forward instead of backwards.If anyone is still looking, the IRD posts seem to be back at Somafab: https://www.somafabshop.com/shop/ird-seatpost-wayback-compact-6972?search=compact#attr=346,4463,1073MaxOn Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 8:08:15 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:I'd guess it's working out for Max since he hasn't posted an update, that's usually how it goes when all is well !  I can't say bike fitting is mysterious, I'd call it intuitive. While others can help steer you in the right direction, the fine tuning is all an "inside job", so to speak. Just as no one can eat or breathe for another, the Life that Lives In and As ALL isn't up for "negotiation". It MUST BE ! Since I've been re-familiarizing myself with riding in road position with DT shifters and new saddle, I've moved mine forward some 15mm+ from when I started with it. It just keeps feeling better, as in more efficient/effective use of what strengths I have. Yesterday I unexpectedly found myself riding up a knarly hill that has some really steep sections. I had not ridden it in a long time and surely had my doubts as to doing it. It took a while to get in the groove and took to standing on the initial very steepest parts, but soon found myself seated and going up just fine in the 36/32 high gear. I used to have to stand the whole way. I could feel how much more effective it is to be able to use the quad/front muscles more by sitting more forward. When I was too far back I'd have to either stand or go to a lower granny gear and felt weak. My road bike doesn't have a lower gear and thankfully so. I didn't need a lower gear to compensate for my self-made mistake, I simply had to express my inherent strengths most effectively and efficiently, upon which it often feels effortless. Rather neat in that way ! I'm riding 150mm cranks and somewhat mid-foot pedaling, all of which just works well for me.  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Early 80's Specialized Sequoia

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 11:09:06 PM UTC-4 John Dewey wrote:

Just so y’all know, TD is kind of a local legend. He is, after all, one of 
Richard Schwinn’s best pals.


Anyone who read Grant's Blahg entry on the closing of Waterford will know 
that Richard Schwinn has more best pals than just about anyone you can 
name. I happen to be lucky enough to live near him and his true best pal, 
his wife, Shoe. And I get to see them regularly at Milwaukee Symphony 
Orchestra concerts.

Regarding my Waterford  keep your eyes out for the next issue of 
American Randonneur.

 Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS 61cm MUSA Homer Frameset

[Alex Wirth]

Nick,
I just love being upright and wanted to do drops too.  No handling issues.

Mike,
Those are compass/herse brakes…don’t know what their reach is off hand but
you can look them up on their site.

Cheers!

Alex

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 12:43 PM Mike Godwin  wrote:

> Alex
> What is the reach on the brakes?  Are they Dia Compe 750s or similar size?
> Mike SLO CA (who traded a Waterford  61 cm HHH for Legolas many moons ago)
>
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:00:42 AM UTC-7 Alex Wirth wrote:
>
>> Bump :-)
>>
>> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 7:43:57 AM UTC-4 Alex Wirth wrote:
>>
>>> non-fee payment (paypal f, venmo, cashapp, zelle)  Paypal G also
>>> available but add 3%.
>>
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> .
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[RBW] Re: FS 61cm MUSA Homer Frameset

[Mike Godwin]

Alex
What is the reach on the brakes?  Are they Dia Compe 750s or similar size?
Mike SLO CA (who traded a Waterford  61 cm HHH for Legolas many moons ago)

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 5:00:42 AM UTC-7 Alex Wirth wrote:

> Bump :-)
>
> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 7:43:57 AM UTC-4 Alex Wirth wrote:
>
>> non-fee payment (paypal f, venmo, cashapp, zelle)  Paypal G also 
>> available but add 3%.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 61cm MUSA Homer Frameset

[Nick Shoemaker]

Whoa! What is that stem and how did it work out for you? Do you have long 
legs/short torso and needed a tall bike with less reach? Any odd handling 
impacts from the lack of any stem extension?

Beautiful frame, too.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 8:00:42 AM UTC-4 Alex Wirth wrote:

> Bump :-)
>
> On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 7:43:57 AM UTC-4 Alex Wirth wrote:
>
>> non-fee payment (paypal f, venmo, cashapp, zelle)  Paypal G also 
>> available but add 3%.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: So I tried bike racing...

[DavidP]

Clark - congrats on a well ridden race and a fun new experience. The San 
Jose is a great bike - a single speed/fixed sibling of the slightly more 
common Volpe. I have a Volpe setup with a flip flop hub and Albatross bars. 
If you have a photo, I'd be interested in seeing your San Jose.

As a general comment, my take on the Riv/Grant rhetoric is that it is less 
about discouraging racing (and extreme MTB, etc.) as a riding style, and 
more about opposing the disproportionate influence these have on bike 
industry trends and increasing mind share around less spectacular forms of 
cycling. There are a few drivers for this, but the concerns are mostly 
about technology displacement (new, incompatible tech displacing older tech 
for reasons other than merit and without regard to negative effects) and 
accessibility (simpler and more practical bikes being more accessible and 
useful than those stripped down to focus on sport).

Ride (or race) on!

-Dave

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:13:42 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I never understood the need for groups of cyclists to denigrate the kind 
> of cycling other people do.
>
> In the 1990s, I rode with a cyclist who was sponsored by Bridgestone, Eric 
> House (the first man to do Furnace Creek 508 in under 30 hours: 
> https://www.furnacecreek508.com/reports/1992fc508.html).
>
> One time he read an article on the Rivendell Reader where Grant wrote 
> about cycling for fun being a better form of cycling than racing. He said: 
> "What, those of us who commute or use the bike for utility can't be in a 
> hurry to get to a meeting on time?" Every time you have to take your kids 
> to school on a bike you're effectively in a race against time, and there's 
> absolutely nothing wrong with that. Sure, it's nice to have lots of time 
> and go as slow as you like, but I found Eric House's arguments compelling 
> as well. And there are times when you feel like pushing hard and there's 
> also nothing wrong with that.
>
> Similarly sometimes I read something about how certain forms of mountain 
> biking should be considered "stunt riding", and I find myself thinking, if 
> they're having fun on a bike, I see nothing wrong with that. The first 
> folks who descended Mt. Tam on balloon tires were denigrated by the Sierra 
> Clubs and other conservative organizations as doing something unnatural. In 
> the end cyclists lost the battle and most single-track on Mt. Tam, the 
> birthplace of mountain biking is banned to cyclists. I find that very sad.
>
> One of my friends recently convinced me to visit Whistler for a downhill 
> MTB trip. It's the antithesis of what I usually do, taking a ski lift up a 
> mountain and riding the bike downhill (
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/07/2023-whistler-day-1.html). When I got off 
> the ski lift I rode up the ramp to the start of one of the trails and the 
> instructor said to me, "You're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to 
> walk up the ramp." It was hilarious since obviously in road cycling, 
> walking means failure. My kids complained about having to take classes and 
> threatened to crash deliberately so they didn't have to do it. But by the 
> end of the 3rd day they were no longer complaining and the older one asked 
> for a fourth day. As one of my friends said: "When you do a jump and get a 
> half second of air time it's one of the most amazing feelings in the 
> world." And once again I find it hard to argue against that.
>
> All I have to say is ride bike. Any bike anywhere any time. It's always 
> better than being in a car, and it's always fun!  
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:
>
>> ... and it was a ton of fun!
>>
>> My paddling buddy called me a couple days before the Great American 
>> Triathlon  because they needed 
>> a cyclist to ride as part of a relay team. I've never raced before, but I 
>> have been riding touring bikes and commuting since 2007, living the "Riv 
>> Life". Along the way I've picked up a fair amount of prejudice towards 
>> racing, but now I realize that my attitude was indeed just that- prejudice. 
>> Racing offers its own kind of joy.
>>
>> I rode my craigslist special, a steel fixed gear Bianchi San Jose with 
>> 40mm tires and a 76.5" gear. Among the relay teams, it was the only fixed 
>> gear, and the only single speed. Most people had carbon road bikes, and 
>> there were a handful of time trial bikes. I did see one classic, high 
>> handlebar laid back Rivendell. I performed better than I expected, 
>> averaging 22 mph over the 12.5 mile course to place 8th out of 129 teams 
>> for the cycling leg. Drafting was allowed, but I didn't have a chance to 
>> draft anyone, because our runner (the first leg) was extremely fast with a 
>> 5:20 mile pace, and that gave me a 3 minute head start.
>>
>> I would do it again, because I enjoyed pushing myself as hard as I could. 
>> If there were convenient 

Re: [RBW] Best Riv Rando Bike

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I’m a bit of on outlier, but I completed PBP in 2007 on my Quickbeam, which was 
set up at the time as a fixed gear (since converted to a three-speed IGH). The 
Quickbeam is pretty comfortable for long rides, and easily accommodates fenders 
and wide-ish tires.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

> On Jul 26, 2023, at 8:31 AM, Ed Felker  wrote:
> 
> This is an interesting question. I rode PBP in 2007 on my coupled Riv Bleriot 
> and was comfortable the whole way on Grand Bois 32mm tires. it was a fair bit 
> more forgiving than the stiffer Ritchey Logic 700c I rode in 1999 with 23mm 
> tires. I'm on tandem for PBP this year but if I were to ride PBP solo again, 
> I'd take the Bleriot with 38mm tires. 
> 
> The Riv road-oriented bikes are suitable for randonneur rides with room for 
> wider tires, fenders, and baggage. I see them on brevets in the Mid-Atlantic 
> region. Of the current models, it would for me come down to those with more 
> sloping top tube, the Roadini or the Hilsen.
> 
> I rode the old Boston-Montreal-Boston 1200K on a Rambouillet with 26mm tires 
> -- far too narrow for the roads. It was fine but I preferred the light and 
> lively feel of the 
> Bleriot.
> 
> Ed Felker
> Washington, DC
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:46:50 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>> Another vote for the Rambouillet here.
>> 
>> Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
>> audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
>> ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
>> self-supported full touring one. I was calling initially about the custom 
>> queue and wait at the time and he said the production sibling of the 
>> Atlantis was in a container, on the ocean now and sounded like it fit my 
>> bill, so I got one and have loved it since then. 
>> 
>> He described the under-square main triangle (TT> lug, 2° upsloped TT as all aiding producing a higher, closer drop bar 
>> position with a reasonably normal stem. There was a bit of conversation 
>> about frame tubes I don't recall but all producing a fit and ride that 
>> suited long days on the bike, similar to the non-competitive, limited time 
>> riding events that began in Europe. Well suited for a saddlebag and my size 
>> has three sets of bottle cage bosses, single eyelets (for fenders) on the 
>> dropouts front and rear, room for 700 x 35~38 without fenders but optimized 
>> for 32s with them and a pump peg on the back of the head tube. 
>> 
>> The Rambouillet isn't terribly happy with a handlebar/rando bag due to the 
>> trail/wheel flop numbers which can make it a handful when climbing in the 
>> lowest gear. Even without a front load it can want to zig and zag rather 
>> than staying on a straight line. You can ride with no hands very easily at 
>> regular speeds. I rode mine almost fifty miles one handed after a shoulder 
>> injury. 
>> 
>> The 2023 P-B-P will start at the Chateau de Rambouillet supporting my belief 
>> that the model namesake was just about the multi-useful sheep. 
>> 
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>> 
>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:55:10 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>>> Looking for thoughts/opinions on best Riv model for randonneuring. Thanks
>>> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Best Riv Rando Bike

[Ed Felker]

This is an interesting question. I rode PBP in 2007 on my coupled Riv 
Bleriot and was comfortable the whole way on Grand Bois 32mm tires. it was 
a fair bit more forgiving than the stiffer Ritchey Logic 700c I rode in 
1999 with 23mm tires. I'm on tandem for PBP this year but if I were to ride 
PBP solo again, I'd take the Bleriot with 38mm tires. 

The Riv road-oriented bikes are suitable for randonneur rides with room for 
wider tires, fenders, and baggage. I see them on brevets in the 
Mid-Atlantic region. Of the current models, it would for me come down to 
those with more sloping top tube, the Roadini or the Hilsen.

I rode the old Boston-Montreal-Boston 1200K on a Rambouillet with 26mm 
tires -- far too narrow for the roads. It was fine but I preferred the 
light and lively feel of the 
Bleriot.

Ed Felker
Washington, DC


On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 10:46:50 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> Another vote for the Rambouillet here.
>
> Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
> audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
> ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
> self-supported full touring one. I was calling initially about the custom 
> queue and wait at the time and he said the production sibling of the 
> Atlantis was in a container, on the ocean now and sounded like it fit my 
> bill, so I got one and have loved it since then. 
>
> He described the under-square main triangle (TT lug, 2° upsloped TT as all aiding producing a higher, closer drop bar 
> position with a reasonably normal stem. There was a bit of conversation 
> about frame tubes I don't recall but all producing a fit and ride that 
> suited long days on the bike, similar to the non-competitive, limited time 
> riding events that began in Europe. Well suited for a saddlebag and my size 
> has three sets of bottle cage bosses, single eyelets (for fenders) on the 
> dropouts front and rear, room for 700 x 35~38 without fenders but optimized 
> for 32s with them and a pump peg on the back of the head tube. 
>
> The Rambouillet isn't terribly happy with a handlebar/rando bag due to the 
> trail/wheel flop numbers which can make it a handful when climbing in the 
> lowest gear. Even without a front load it can want to zig and zag rather 
> than staying on a straight line. You can ride with no hands very easily at 
> regular speeds. I rode mine almost fifty miles one handed after a shoulder 
> injury. 
>
> The 2023 P-B-P will start at the Chateau de Rambouillet supporting my 
> belief that the model namesake was just about the multi-useful sheep. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:55:10 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:
>
>> Looking for thoughts/opinions on best Riv model for randonneuring. Thanks
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Touring Terminology (was Re: Best Riv Rando Bike)

[藍俊彪]

I found a Ram 56cm for $1000 on Facebook yesterday:
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/198144339898384/

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 8:29 AM Dick Combs  wrote:

> Folks are confirming what I suspected. My quandary is finding one  and
> what size. Looking at past geometry charts It looks like I need a 56 or 58
> My PBH is 84, short legs long torso. Any recommendations on size as well a
> leads on Ram’s for sale
>
> On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:02:59 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French
>> audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country
>> ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus
>> self-supported full touring one.
>>
>> I have to chime in and talk about types of touring:
>>
>> I think what Andy meant was "Expedition-style touring": that's where
>> you're carrying camping gear, possibly cookware, food, and water.
>> Self-supported means you're carrying everything you need with no
>> follow-vehicle or luggage delivery. You can stay in hotels or camp, but
>> what matters is that you're making decisions as to where you go and where
>> to stay each night.
>>
>> I wrote an essay about this years ago that notes that one form of touring
>> isn't better than another:
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2008/02/cycle-touring-and-spriit-of-adventure.html
>>
>> In fact, the lighter your load, the more you can do, and if you know
>> you're not going to be pitching a tent and cooking your own food you can
>> actually get more aggressive and ride higher mountains or dirt trails you
>> might otherwise avoid if you're carrying a heavy expedition style load.
>>
>>
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> .
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[RBW] Re: Touring Terminology (was Re: Best Riv Rando Bike)

[Dick Combs]

Folks are confirming what I suspected. My quandary is finding one  and what 
size. Looking at past geometry charts It looks like I need a 56 or 58 My 
PBH is 84, short legs long torso. Any recommendations on size as well a 
leads on Ram’s for sale

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 11:02:59 AM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
> audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
> ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
> self-supported full touring one.
>
> I have to chime in and talk about types of touring:
>
> I think what Andy meant was "Expedition-style touring": that's where 
> you're carrying camping gear, possibly cookware, food, and water.
> Self-supported means you're carrying everything you need with no 
> follow-vehicle or luggage delivery. You can stay in hotels or camp, but 
> what matters is that you're making decisions as to where you go and where 
> to stay each night.
>
> I wrote an essay about this years ago that notes that one form of touring 
> isn't better than another: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2008/02/cycle-touring-and-spriit-of-adventure.html
>
> In fact, the lighter your load, the more you can do, and if you know 
> you're not going to be pitching a tent and cooking your own food you can 
> actually get more aggressive and ride higher mountains or dirt trails you 
> might otherwise avoid if you're carrying a heavy expedition style load.
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Nitto Boscomoose 580mm handlebars

[Matthew Williams]

Sold!


> On Jul 24, 2023, at 2:53 PM, Matthew Williams 
>  wrote:
> 
> Nitto Boscomoose 580mm handlebars
> Dullbrite CroMo TIG-welded.
> Used, in good condition.
> $180.00 or best offer.
> Free shipping in the USofA.
> Sorry, no international shipping.
> 
> <00u0u_5qm3YR85WFp_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg><00L0L_bpj0H7gKhoV_0CI0t2_1200x900.jpg>

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[RBW] Re: So I tried bike racing...

[Piaw Na]

I never understood the need for groups of cyclists to denigrate the kind of 
cycling other people do.

In the 1990s, I rode with a cyclist who was sponsored by Bridgestone, Eric 
House (the first man to do Furnace Creek 508 in under 30 
hours: https://www.furnacecreek508.com/reports/1992fc508.html).

One time he read an article on the Rivendell Reader where Grant wrote about 
cycling for fun being a better form of cycling than racing. He said: "What, 
those of us who commute or use the bike for utility can't be in a hurry to 
get to a meeting on time?" Every time you have to take your kids to school 
on a bike you're effectively in a race against time, and there's absolutely 
nothing wrong with that. Sure, it's nice to have lots of time and go as 
slow as you like, but I found Eric House's arguments compelling as well. 
And there are times when you feel like pushing hard and there's also 
nothing wrong with that.

Similarly sometimes I read something about how certain forms of mountain 
biking should be considered "stunt riding", and I find myself thinking, if 
they're having fun on a bike, I see nothing wrong with that. The first 
folks who descended Mt. Tam on balloon tires were denigrated by the Sierra 
Clubs and other conservative organizations as doing something unnatural. In 
the end cyclists lost the battle and most single-track on Mt. Tam, the 
birthplace of mountain biking is banned to cyclists. I find that very sad.

One of my friends recently convinced me to visit Whistler for a downhill 
MTB trip. It's the antithesis of what I usually do, taking a ski lift up a 
mountain and riding the bike downhill 
(https://blog.piaw.net/2023/07/2023-whistler-day-1.html). When I got off 
the ski lift I rode up the ramp to the start of one of the trails and the 
instructor said to me, "You're not supposed to do that. You're supposed to 
walk up the ramp." It was hilarious since obviously in road cycling, 
walking means failure. My kids complained about having to take classes and 
threatened to crash deliberately so they didn't have to do it. But by the 
end of the 3rd day they were no longer complaining and the older one asked 
for a fourth day. As one of my friends said: "When you do a jump and get a 
half second of air time it's one of the most amazing feelings in the 
world." And once again I find it hard to argue against that.

All I have to say is ride bike. Any bike anywhere any time. It's always 
better than being in a car, and it's always fun!  

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 1:56:19 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> ... and it was a ton of fun!
>
> My paddling buddy called me a couple days before the Great American 
> Triathlon  because they needed a 
> cyclist to ride as part of a relay team. I've never raced before, but I 
> have been riding touring bikes and commuting since 2007, living the "Riv 
> Life". Along the way I've picked up a fair amount of prejudice towards 
> racing, but now I realize that my attitude was indeed just that- prejudice. 
> Racing offers its own kind of joy.
>
> I rode my craigslist special, a steel fixed gear Bianchi San Jose with 
> 40mm tires and a 76.5" gear. Among the relay teams, it was the only fixed 
> gear, and the only single speed. Most people had carbon road bikes, and 
> there were a handful of time trial bikes. I did see one classic, high 
> handlebar laid back Rivendell. I performed better than I expected, 
> averaging 22 mph over the 12.5 mile course to place 8th out of 129 teams 
> for the cycling leg. Drafting was allowed, but I didn't have a chance to 
> draft anyone, because our runner (the first leg) was extremely fast with a 
> 5:20 mile pace, and that gave me a 3 minute head start.
>
> I would do it again, because I enjoyed pushing myself as hard as I could. 
> If there were convenient local bike races, then I would go, but I don't 
> feel compelled to go seek them out. I feel no desire to buy a faster bike, 
> although I might increase the gear ratio a bit if I train and get stronger.
>
> Bikes offer so many ways to have fun!
>

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[RBW] Touring Terminology (was Re: Best Riv Rando Bike)

[Piaw Na]

Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
self-supported full touring one.

I have to chime in and talk about types of touring:

I think what Andy meant was "Expedition-style touring": that's where you're 
carrying camping gear, possibly cookware, food, and water.
Self-supported means you're carrying everything you need with no 
follow-vehicle or luggage delivery. You can stay in hotels or camp, but 
what matters is that you're making decisions as to where you go and where 
to stay each night.

I wrote an essay about this years ago that notes that one form of touring 
isn't better than 
another: 
https://blog.piaw.net/2008/02/cycle-touring-and-spriit-of-adventure.html

In fact, the lighter your load, the more you can do, and if you know you're 
not going to be pitching a tent and cooking your own food you can actually 
get more aggressive and ride higher mountains or dirt trails you might 
otherwise avoid if you're carrying a heavy expedition style load.
 

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[RBW] Re: Best Riv Rando Bike

[ascpgh]

Another vote for the Rambouillet here.

Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
self-supported full touring one. I was calling initially about the custom 
queue and wait at the time and he said the production sibling of the 
Atlantis was in a container, on the ocean now and sounded like it fit my 
bill, so I got one and have loved it since then. 

He described the under-square main triangle (TT Looking for thoughts/opinions on best Riv model for randonneuring. Thanks
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best Riv Rando Bike

[Eric Marth]

Same as Eric Norris, I say I've never owned a Ram. There are a few young 
randonneurs in San Francisco who both ride Rams and are heading to PBP with 
them this year. 

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 11:32:36 PM UTC-4 LBleriot wrote:

> I guess the answer depends on your vision/intended use of the rando bike. 
>   I’ve set up my Bleriot as a traditional fendered dyno lit 650B rando rig, 
> but the AHH has front rack eyelets that make use of a front bag easier to 
> set up. I also use my MIT Atlantis into a sort of heavy brevet monster.  
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 10:48:47 PM UTC-4 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>
>> I’ve never owned one, but I’ve always thought the Rambouillet would do 
>> well as a Rando bike. 
>>
>> –Eric N
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2023, at 5:55 PM, Dick Combs  wrote:
>>
>> Looking for thoughts/opinions on best Riv model for randonneuring. Thanks
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Johnny Alien]

I totally agree. Most people on RIv's are already on a large frame size for 
them (based on Riv's sizing standards) so it seems that going further back 
on a large frame with a slack geometry would be the opposite of what would 
be needed. That's why Analog started selling zero setback seatposts. If you 
need to slam a seatpost or bury it pretty far then it seems odd to also 
need to go back.

On Wednesday, July 26, 2023 at 6:09:02 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  
> Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the 
> Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post 
> capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, 
> if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong 
> direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It 
> seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. 
> Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the 
> saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.
>
> From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright 
> doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes 
> rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something 
> that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. 
> With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that 
> simply isn't. 
>
> A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm 
> too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or 
> sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm 
> too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? 
> Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to 
> been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving 
> saddle forward to an optimal place, hark . I find myself able to 
> effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the 
> pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 26.0 bar in 25.4 clamp?

[Laing Conley]

Personally, I would just buy the correct stem.
If you do want to modify the stem you already have, I would use a brake
cylinder hone, generally available at local auto parts stores, Open it up
as little as possible, leave as much metal as possible. You can also use a
stem spreader (or snap ring spreader) to avoid damage to the bars. You can
als fabricate a spreader from a nut, bolt, washer, and coin.
Again, for the price of the tools and selling the stem you have, you can
get the correct stem which is what I would recommend. Aluminum is not as
forgiving as steel.

Laing

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 7:50 AM Nick Payne  wrote:

> I'd use an adjustable reamer to ream the stem from 25.4 to 26.0. I did
> this back in the 1980s when I wanted to use 26.4 Cinelli bars in a Nitto
> Technomic stem. The adjustable reamer I have for seat tubes has enough
> adjustment (down to 23.75) to be used for stems as well.
>
> You can get cheap adjustable reamers off Aliexpress for less than $10. No
> idea of the quality (probably crap), but they should last long enough to do
> the job you need on an aluminium stem.
>
> Nick Payne
>
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 61cm MUSA Homer Frameset

[Alex Wirth]

Bump :-)

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 7:43:57 AM UTC-4 Alex Wirth wrote:

> non-fee payment (paypal f, venmo, cashapp, zelle)  Paypal G also 
> available but add 3%.

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[RBW] Re: 26.0 bar in 25.4 clamp?

[Nick Payne]

I'd use an adjustable reamer to ream the stem from 25.4 to 26.0. I did this 
back in the 1980s when I wanted to use 26.4 Cinelli bars in a Nitto 
Technomic stem. The adjustable reamer I have for seat tubes has enough 
adjustment (down to 23.75) to be used for stems as well.

You can get cheap adjustable reamers off Aliexpress for less than $10. No 
idea of the quality (probably crap), but they should last long enough to do 
the job you need on an aluminium stem.

Nick Payne

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Re: [RBW] 26.8 seatposts with generous setback

[Garth]

Leah, Why is it you believe you need more setback in the first place ?  
Compared to the Betty you had with it's 72 degree seat tube angle, the 
Clems are a more shallow 71.5, which equates to the same saddle and post 
capable of setting further back by about 6.5mm.  As I've already expressed, 
if it's forward reach you want going backwards is going in the wrong 
direction. A longer stem and/or less swept back bars are called for. It 
seems most riders here asking for more setback ride wayback swept bars. 
Well that's the issue, that they are too far back, not the setback of the 
saddle. Get the saddle in an optimal place first, then deal with the reach.

>From my experience, being too far back of the pedals and too upright 
doesn't allow for the most efficient use of leg/core strength. It becomes 
rather a viscious and futile cycle of trying to compensate for something 
that can't be compensated for. Been there and done it, in all futility. 
With the saddle in an optimal position and a forward lean, all of that 
simply isn't. 

A sure sign of being too far back in the saddle is when climbing. If I'm 
too far back, I either HAVE to stand to maintain any sort of momentum, or 
sit and grind in futility where no low gear seems low enough because I'm 
too far back. Maintaining a fluid spin is impossible. Standing does what ? 
Places me over the BB, in the optimal "power band". Gee, maybe I ought to 
been seated further forward to begin with ! ((( laughing )))  In moving 
saddle forward to an optimal place, hark . I find myself able to 
effectively and efficiently stay seated on climbs, always "on top" of the 
pedals, even if really steep, and it's marvelous !


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[RBW] Re: 26.0 bar in 25.4 clamp?

[Joe Bernard]

I did it once decades ago and it's a bad idea. Even if you can pry that 
sucker open enough - risking structural weakening - you'll have the most 
scraped up bar you've ever scraped. 

On Monday, July 24, 2023 at 1:05:02 PM UTC-7 chasenl...@gmail.com wrote:

> how do you all make this happen? 
>
> i have only successfully done it once and the toll was high- huge and 
> noticeable cosmetic damage to the nitto dirt drop stem and to the sleeveish 
> clamp bar of nitto noodle bars.
>
> basically i wanna run a 25.4 technomic stem with some wide nitto drops, 
> without fudging up either too badly. i have noticed that while noodles have 
> a sleeve and crust bars in 26.0 have more of a ramp, does this make a 
> difference?  
>

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