Re: [RBW] 650b Gravel Bikes?

[Den John]

My 'gravel bike' is a Rivendell Atlantis with 650B wheels. It is a 2018 
model I think, which has long chainstays but a shortish top tube
that allows for drop bars. There was a choice between 650B and 700c in that 
size in that year. The bike rides really nicely on a variety of unpaved 
surfaces, and descends fantastically well. I currently run 50mm tyres with 
fenders, but I have some 57mm G-ones that I might try some time without 
fenders.

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium

On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 04:02:50 UTC+2 ascpgh wrote:

> I looked to 650B as a solution to my particular fit issues for an all road 
> bike the other year. Grant was very frame size dependent in his support of 
> 650B and felt that above a certain size (several below mine) the utility of 
> the wheel size ended its utility. Those considerations are fair for stock 
> geometry. 
>
> The problem for me and my ideal under square (2-3cm) frame dimensioning is 
> that I get into toe overlap with 700c wheels with fatter tires. I wanted 
> broader capacity for rougher road riding and load carrying so 650B was my 
> way to go. I still would rather ride smarter than fasteron unpaved surfaces 
> and 650Bx42 has provided all the envelope I need without tapping my Walter 
> Mitty thoughts.
>
> I made many purchases and gone down bicycle and equipment rabbit holes 
> chasing more "performance" only to find out the lease expensive component 
> of my bike is where the greatest capacity to upgrade resides...me. 
>
> I had my 650B bike built and ride it hundreds of miles off pavement, with 
> fenders, on RH Babyshoe Pass tires set up tubeless on Pacenti Brevet rims, 
> three years so far without reason to look back or second guess the formula. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 8:03:47 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I don’t know about a bike dedicated to 650B in all sizes but some smaller 
>> Rivs come as a 650B and the Susie is 650B… but what is a gravel bike, after 
>> all, but a bike ridden on gravel or hard-pack dirt roads? I would classify 
>> most of the bikes made by Riv as gravel or gravel adjacent. They’ve almost 
>> all got generous tire clearance. The only thing modern gravel bikes have 
>> that Rivs lack are expensive electronics and disc brakes, really…
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 4:47 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog 
>>> lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, 
>>> so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with 
>>> available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed 
>>> something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Den John]

Horizontal double top-tubes like on the Bombadil-Hunqapillar are quite 
common on Dutch and Belgian town and cargo bikes. 
I wonder if this 

 
1920s Labor racing bike was the inspiration for the rainbow tube on the 
Atlantis.

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 14:49:38 UTC+1 lconley wrote:

> Note that Grant does not use twin tubes for the diagonals from the head 
> tube - he uses a single tube, even on the mixte-ish frames and tandems. As 
> far as I know he has only done one frame with twin diagonal tubes, does 
> anyone know of another?
>
> [image: WorkS.jpg]
>
> One thing that I know about that French bike is that the stem is not 
> lugged, the French were fond of casting aluminum stems that looked lugged, 
> but were not. Pivo, AVA and ATAX were among them. There is an AVA stem that 
> is known as the death stem due its tendency to crack completely through, 
> maybe they have moved on to carbon fiber now. That stem on that bike looks 
> like a Pivo due to the elongated oval around the name - cannot make it out, 
> but AVA used a diamond shape.
>
> Laing
>
>
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 9:38:03 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic 
>> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive 
>> thread " 
>> further afield.
>>
>> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1 
>>  
>> was 
>> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after 
>> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay 
>> , I'm not so sure. The seller 
>> says it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has 
>> a few other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>>
>> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if 
>> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual 
>> production model or more of a one-off custom. 
>>
>> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky 
>> brake and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator 
>> lighting. I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total 
>> oddball, anyway. 
>>
>> Curious what others think.
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Jim
>>
>> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating 
>> Triangulation 
>> " 
>> from Sept. 24.)
>>
>> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>>
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New XL (59cm) Wolbis/Susie Frameset

[Den John]

Hello Paul,

Is this frame still for sale? If so, would you consider shipping to Europe? 

Delivery from the EU to US is about $90, if it's possible to send from the 
US to the EU for a similar price, that would be good.

I'm looking for a bike that will serve for a longish commute, and for some 
light touring and off road.

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium


On Friday, 24 February 2023 at 16:33:44 UTC+1 Paul M wrote:

> The Susie is still for sale. Like all Rivendells it's way more than a 
> Hillibike. As Russ Roca of The Path Less Pedaled website says in his review 
> of the Susie W. Longbolts.  
>
> "Like a 90's MTB... But Better!"
>
> "Dirt Surfer"
>
> "ATB"
>
> "Commuter"
>
> "Adult Cruiser of the Apocalypse"
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, 8 February 2023 at 11:31:16 UTC-8 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> These frames really do play better with more swept back bars… 
>> specifically any of the “_osco” bar models. I wouldn’t want anything more 
>> forward than the Toscos on my Gus… the frames are just too long for 
>> anything else, IMO.
>>
>> On Feb 7, 2023, at 9:10 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> You're all set. Your original post says 58.5, 68.5 sounds correct. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 3:24:51 PM UTC-8 Paul M wrote:
>>
>>> So I did measure it and came up with 68.5cm and the Riv geometry chart 
>>> shows the same for a 59cm Susie. The only 70cm ETT on the geometry chart is 
>>> the 64cm Clem L. Thats long and I know from owning one. Here's a picture 
>>> that makes the Susie look that way.  
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 7 February 2023 at 13:09:58 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I believe your ETT is a typo, the 59cm frames are closer to 70cm 
 effective toptube. 

 On Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 8:26:49 AM UTC-8 Paul M wrote:

> Purchased this frameset directly from RBW last year and never built it 
> into a complete bicycle. I acquired a 56cm Susie and decided to put the 
> other up for sale. The 56cm vs. 59cm only vary by 2.5cm in the effective 
> top tube length. The 59cm also has a 31.8mm diameter top tube vs. 28.6mm 
> for the 56cm. Would work best for someone 6' or taller. Email me directly 
> for more information and pictures. Check out Portland Oregon Craigslist 
> for 
> my listing.  Thanks, Paul in Eugene Oregon, Track town USA
>
> st- 59cm c-t
> tt- 58.5cm c-c, effective
> cs- 56cm
> ht- 264mm
> fillet brazed construction
> model discontinued
> $1800 plus shipping
>
 -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Cliffhanger alternatives?

[Den John]

Halo components in the UK do some wide rims for rim brakes in 26", 27.5" 
and 29". 
Their SAS is 26 or 27.5" and 30mm internal width. 
Their T2 is 29" and 26mm internal width.
I think they have some other models too. 

I have the SAS 27.5" on my single speed MTB. I was worried they'd feel 
heavy (760g) but not so far. They did squeal a bit because the braking 
surface needs to bed in, otherwise no problems.
Currently running 2.8" WTB Rangers with tubes. Not tried tubeless setup yet 
with these. I like the Rangers a lot in that size, but seems like they are 
getting hard to find, at least here in the EU.

Cheers,
Johnny
On Wednesday, 14 December 2022 at 02:05:20 UTC+1 Paul Clifton wrote:

> This just reminded me ...  I scored some 27.5x2.8" WTB Rangers the other 
> day. I wonder if they'll be taller on the cliffhangers.
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 5:53:35 PM UTC-6 Paul Clifton wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the chart Laing!
>>
>> Deore's and many others clear 2.8" G Ones on a 650b Cliffhanger on the 
>> Gus just fine. I guess I get some leaves in between the tire and the cable 
>> sometimes, but that happens with all rim brakes IME.
>>
>> The Motolites technically cleared, if I set them up very close to the rim 
>> so that the arms were as vertical as possible. But it was too close for 
>> comfort, and I did hear some rubbing occasionally, but not sure what was 
>> deforming to cause it ...
>>
>> Paul in AR
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 12:54:46 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Shimano Deores are only 4mm (1/6") longer than Paul Motolites. If you 
>>> want something longer:
>>>
>>> [image: V brakes.JPG]
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 1:45:07 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Paul brings up an excellent point. If you plan on running the max tire 
 size on your Gus, just make sure the brake you use will clear it. I had 
 already purchased MotoLites for mine before even considering a tire size. 
 Ended up going with 2.5” Ehlines, which turned out to clear the brakes by 
 maybe 1cm. I doubt I’d feel comfortable with any less clearance just due 
 to 
 the chances of picking up mud and rocks and sticks on chunky treads. Of 
 course, this says more about the limitations of certain brakes than it 
 does 
 tires. With the right brake choice, you should be able to run the 2.8s no 
 problem… just keep it in mind.

 On Dec 13, 2022, at 12:56 PM, Paul Clifton  wrote:

 

 Richard,
 I run 2.8" G-ones on Cliffhangers on my Gus without any problems. I 
 don't think the frame would take a bigger tire, and v-brakes almost 
 certainly won't. I already had to Swap the Paul Motolites for Deores to 
 clear the 2.8" G-ones.

 So if you want Cliffhangers on your Susie, no need to worry about the 
 rim width being a limiting factor.

 Paul in AR

 On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 10:02:21 AM UTC-6 rmro...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Hi Scott. Right now thinking 2.6” Maxxis Recons. Possibly Teravail 
> Ehline 2.5” but I read they really are more like 2.25”. I’ve owned true 
> “plus” bikes before & ran 2.8”-3.0” tires on 30-45mm wide rims with 
> success. Not sure I want to go that big. Not a lot to choose from in rim 
> brake rims.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 13, 2022, at 10:42 AM, 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Richard, what width tire are you wanting to run on your new Gus, 2.8?
>
> I'm getting some Cliffs built for my new Gus, and I plan on running 
> 2.6 to begin with and like having the option to run 2.8 tires. 2.6 is 
> within Velocity's recommended rim width. I think one could safely go 
> outside of "recommended" tire width and run a 2.8 on a Cliff. It's .1 per 
> side wider. It's not like going from a 1.9 to say a 2.8.
>
> I find a decent selection of 2.6 tires out there, 2.8 not so much. 
> Have you got a good 2.8 in mind? Do tell. I'd like to look into it. I 
> wouldn't hesitate to run 2.8 on my Cliffs, whenever they show up on my 
> door 
> step...
>
> Also, please share what shakes out in your BB search for your Gus.
>
> Best,
>
> Scott in about to get very cold Montana
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2022 at 08:29:36 AM MST, Richard Rose <
> rmro...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
>
> 2.5"-2.6" tires seem to be at the very upper limits for the venerable 
> Cliffhanger. Is anyone aware of a 700c  rim brake rim that is a bit 
> wider? 
> I have not found one. 
>
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[RBW] Re: All Time Best Paint Color

[Den John]

Another vote for the red-grey Hunquapillar. There was a custom cyclocross 
bike with the same scheme on the old Riv staff bikes that I spent too much 
time staring at. 

[image: hunq.jpg]

Also a vote for the grilver Clem H. I own one, and it is a very nice, 
understated scheme. Goes really well with the classic olive green Carradice 
bags.

Cheers,
Johnny


On Thursday, 8 September 2022 at 22:54:21 UTC+2 Paul M wrote:

> How about "Grilver"?
>
> On Thursday, 8 September 2022 at 12:03:01 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Is it cheating if I say the best is this one?"
>>
>> It's not cheating if Grant makes Bicycle Belle Raspberry a production 
>> color. Put it on a 30th Anniversary Mixte, GP! 
>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:07:20 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> [image: 5DB777E4-F431-416E-84F2-04154161C367.jpeg][image: 
>>> 20ACC827-BC28-4CC2-B0DB-890A2CC0F77D.jpeg]
>>>
>>> Is it cheating if I say the best is this one?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 11:27:35 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I still like the early Rivendell blue frames, I’m also a sucker for a 
 nice silver.  

 On Wednesday, September 7, 2022 at 7:08:42 PM UTC-4 Keith P. wrote:

>
> I've been going down the archive rabbit hole and am curious of the 
> bunch's thoughts (opinions).
>
> *What is the best factory Rivendell paint color to date?*
>
> Give me your hot takes - and photos if you've got 'em.
>


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[RBW] Re: front carrying options for 2022

[Den John]

Hey all,

I've seen a few Carradice/Fabio's chest setups with the bag lowered from 
the flat section of the drop bars. Seems like you need to then strap the 
lower part of the bag to a front rack. Not sure exactly how this is done - 
you can sort of see it here: 
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/rivendell-atlantis-ultraromance/
If anyone's got any better pictures or explanations about how to do this 
I'd be grateful to know.

A Carradice bag on a set of flat bars worked pretty well for me on a two 
day trip in the German Black Forest mountains - I strapped the pag up well 
with long Voilé straps to keep it from interfering with the brake cables.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Wednesday, 8 June 2022 at 16:28:17 UTC+2 Bones wrote:

> Perilous? Nonsense! I think your setup is perfect, assuming you are not 
> carting around bowling balls. I feel no difference in handling from 0-10lb 
> or so up front. I do not experience any wobble or shimmy; I am not sure if 
> your P clamps are playing a part in that or not (thankfully mine has a 
> place to mount). I use this for work every day and only carry some extra 
> scrubs and lunch and a few other small items. I can easily throw 12 beers 
> in on the way home too with no issue. I have a basket rack doing nothing 
> right now and I sometimes think about putting that on the front but I 
> really don't need it.
>
> Bones
>
> [image: Simpleone.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, June 8, 2022 at 9:08:28 AM UTC-4 wallye...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> https://www.instagram.com/p/CbVfD1Hu9xN/
>>
>> I've had 25# box of kitty litter on the rear.  Luckily it's only a mile 
>> home.
>>
>> I'm currently running Nitto Dirt Drops RM-013, 52 w/ either a small or 
>> medium BXB Goldback.  With plenty of clearance for my big mitts between the 
>> side pockets and brake levers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 12:00:22 PM UTC-4 Minh wrote:
>>
>>> hey all, i've been using my QB more now, and started to think about how 
>>> i carry things on the front of my bike.  i'm pretty settled on a rivy 
>>> shopsack+ wald137 basket + nitto mini front (with a safety strap!).  I know 
>>> this is a little perilous according to the stated specs, so would consider 
>>> other options.  
>>>
>>> I'm mostly happy with this, i do get a little bit of wobble or shimmy.  
>>>  But i also feel like this is how i've always done things so curious how 
>>> other people are carry things--particularly on front of teh bike.  For 
>>> example i see all these Fabio's Chest running around, is it better to carry 
>>> stuff off the bar?   Larger porter racks and bags?
>>>
>>> This bike is my high security storage only bike, so i'm not too worried 
>>> about leaving bags on the bike.   Would appreciate peoples thoughts, 
>>> opinions, philosophy on this!  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: A love letter to stainless steel water bottles

[Den John]

+1 on the combination of King Cage Iris with Kleen Kanteen. I use this for 
gravel and MTB riding and haven't been bothered by rattling.

Another advantage of stainless steel is that you can use the bottles to 
boil water on a fire to make it safer for drinking if need be. Probably not 
something you would want to do regularly, but I have done it occasionally.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Thursday, 5 May 2022 at 16:37:22 UTC+2 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

> @ Andrew,
>
> Thanks for sharing.  We will be checking out the Bivo.  Their cap and 
> (gravity) flow rate looks ideal (ex-NASA developed!).  Will be on the 
> lookout for their insulated model, hopefully soon.
>
> We continue to use Hydroflask models, but the flow rate out of their 
> specific mouthpiece is just so-so.  Plus, cleaning the inside of their cap 
> can be concerning, lots of nooks and crannies.  
>
> @ Miles: we too use King Cages (with above stainless steel Hydroflasks).  
> We've found the King Cage 'Iris' model cage to hold a naked stainless 
> container a little better vs. King's  (we've used both models of King 
> Cages).  The amount of friction between the two King Cages is clearly 
> evident.  Granted, we were *not *using this specific combo off-road 
> though.
>
> While off-road we used the large wide-mouth Hydroflask (40 ounce - 1.18 
> liter) insulated container with a BBB XL Fueltank cage + Voile strap.  This 
> combo was extremely secure in all kinds of rough terrain (it never ejected 
> off the bike).  It obviously removes the possibility and ease of drinking 
> while riding a bike though.  It was simply a way to carry a decent amount 
> of water securely while cyclotouring/bikepacking.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeff
> Claremont, CA
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2022 at 3:12:48 PM UTC-7 Andrew Turner wrote:
>
>> I came across this company a couple weeks ago and bought 2, and thought 
>> I'd share.
>> https://drinkbivo.com/   
>>
>> I've used both plastic (Purist) and stainless (Klean Kanteen) bottles in 
>> the past but the Purist inevitably get funky, leaves an aftertaste despite 
>> the hype, and will eventually get tossed. Kleans are great but not as 
>> optimized for cycling as Bivo's product. I highly recommend trying them 
>> out, especially if you haven't tried stainless. This came off really ady so 
>> I apologize for that but plastic sucks...that being said, it looks like 
>> some biodegradable options are popping up which is great. (But stainless 
>> tastes so gd) OK I'M DONE, PROMISE! 
>>
>> Andrew
>
>

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[RBW] Re: A Quiet Ride and Thoughts of Bicycle Commuting

[Den John]

Hello all,

Big thing for me was getting the luggage right. Commuted with a large 
backpack for a year or so, which was not good for my back.
Switched to panniers when I got a different job and bought a more 
rack-friendly bike, but then went off panniers after another
job change that involved carrying panniers off the bike for longer 
distances. Now I have a large front basket that holds a roll top backpack
(UPSO, made by Carradice), plus a saddlebag if I need the extra room. 

Post-Covid, I only have to be in the office twice a week, so I do a longer 
route. I find myself less inclined (or perhaps unable) to ride it as fast 
as possible compared to the shorter routes I used to do. This makes it a 
bit more leisurely. 

Finding a nice route is important. It's often worth adding a bit to the 
journey to avoid busy roads. My current route goes over the
recent World Championship course, and you can still see 'Sonny Colbrelli' 
painted over and over on one of the climbs. 

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium

On Friday, 29 April 2022 at 15:44:29 UTC+2 Bill Schairer wrote:

> Retired now but bike commuted off and on for years in different 
> cities/jobs etc.  It wasn’t until I retired that I learned how to ride 
> recreationally.  My approach was this:
>
>
>
>1. Figure out what route I would be riding and then ride it a few 
>times on off days and refine if possible/necessary.  Get comfortable with 
>where the bike will be during the day. 
>2. My jobs were generally suit and tie.  I kept as much as possible of 
>my work outfit at work.  If riding say 4 days per week, use day 5 for 
>swapping out supplies as necessary. 
>3. Only one job had a shower.  Others, got there early (also allowed 
>for rare mechanical, flat), cooled down at desk then sponge bathed and 
>changed in bathroom stall. 
>4. My experience was that anything under about 10 miles each way was 
>ideal in that it really didn’t add that much time to my commute and any 
>that it did counted as recreation/exercise so all was good. 
>5. Took me about two weeks to adapt.  First two weeks were a chore 
>adapting to traffic (and it adapting to you), getting my routine down, 
> body 
>adjusting, getting in the mental mode that the bike is how I get to and 
>from work, no choice - within certain parameters,.  After that break in 
>period, the routine was easy and the commute a joy. I started each day as 
> a 
>kid and didn't have to convert to adult mode until I was at work. It gets 
>easier and easier. 
>6. A positive I don’t see mentioned often is how predictable the 
>commute is.  I knew how long it would take me and very little could change 
>that.  With a bike it is so much easier to adapt to construction, traffic 
>situations etc. 
>7. The more regular I was on what time I rode and where I rode, the 
>more considerate my fellow commuters were of me.  They were used to seeing 
>me and willing to accomodate me.  They knew I wasn’t a recreational rider 
>getting in their way but just another person getting to work.  Vary my 
>departure time by as little as 5 or 10 minutes and the new set of 
> commuters 
>might be a little less forgiving.  I strongly believe considering myself 
> as 
>any other vehicle and asserting my right to the road as well as obeying 
> all 
>the traffic laws are important in gaining the respect of one’s fellow 
>commuters. 
>8. I suppose it can vary from commute to commute but I sometimes 
>preferred heavier traffic.  Speed differential is smaller, more protection 
>in intersections, and riding by bumper to bumper traffic is always a joy! 
>9. Fellow workers/friends/family may think you are weird but have 
>grudging respect.
>10.  Having a backup bike is nice. 
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
> (commutes have been in LA, El Cerrito-Oakland, Concord-Walnut Creek, St 
> Louis, San Diego)
>
> On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 7:09:42 AM UTC-7 Roberta wrote:
>
>> Hi, Doug.
>>
>> My three month bike commute is two miles each way and it's the best way 
>> to start the day and to clear my mind at the end of the day.  I was so 
>> frazzled driving on the highway to our former office.
>>
>> I want my commute to be pleasant no matter the method, so I'm not 100% 
>> riding, but it's close.  If it's below 30* or raining, I'll walk or 
>> walk/bus. I also watch the weather, so if it's going to rain about the time 
>> I leave, I'll leave early or late.  Or, I'll leave my bike at the office 
>> and walk/bus home. I'm lucky that I have options.   I'm also lucky that I 
>> can bring my bike into my office.  I leave work pants and shoes at the 
>> office during the week and change them at work.  Also, although no route is 
>> 100% safe for me, I try to ride on roads with bike lanes or on less 
>> traveled roads if no bike specific lanes are available.  There are a lot of 
>> reflectors and lights on my bike and me (I 

[RBW] Re: Am I thinking practically? Riv for all seasons

[Den John]

I agree with Ian from Alberta. I've used a variety of old 80s-90s 
non-suspension MTBs for commuting the past few years. There aren't many 
better 
bikes for commuting as long as they have mudguard and rack mounts. 
Components will suffer in the winter, so stick with basic stuff. Steel 
chainrings might be good idea. I currently have a specialized stumpjumper 
converted to 650B with 42mm tyres. 

If you do decide to use a Rivendell, get the best mudguards you can. I 
bought some Gilles Berthoud stainless guards a couple of years ago and it 
is remarkable how much difference they make keeping the frame clean in 
horrible conditions. 

Another consideration is what your bike storage at work is like. I found 
that my employer has a secure underground bike storage that is little used, 
so I'd be ok with storing a nice bike there. Previously I locked up my bike 
at a crowded bike rack in a train station, and then at a public bike rack 
used by students. I wouldn't want to do that with my nice bikes. 

Cheers,
Johnny

On Monday, 14 March 2022 at 09:04:02 UTC+1 Ian A wrote:

> I'm in Alberta and in the past ten years I have lived here, I have winter 
> commuted on an 80's Rocky Mountain MTB with 26"x2" Schwalbe Ice Spikers. 
> The bike has held up well, but all components have to be considered 
> sacrificial as the winter is hard on the bike. I ran it as a 2x6 for the 
> first ~six years, then converted it to a single speed (50x20) and it does 
> well. Hauls groceries and commutes in the winter and hauls groceries, 
> commutes and gets locked up around town in the summer!
>
> My nice bikes don't do the winter stuff. The grit, salt, spring thaw 
> puddles etc are just too wear inducing. I rebuild the Rocky periodically 
> and has never let me down. I would say the Appaloosa would handle the 
> winter conditions well, but keeping it nice for Spring/Summer/Fall touring, 
> commuting, errands etc and a slightly more sacrificial winter bike that you 
> can still be fond of is the way to go.
>
> IanA Alberta Canada
> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 10:42:34 AM UTC-6 trevor@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> First time posting here. Not yet an owner, but working on it!
>>
>> A few years back, I sold my year round commuter (a Surly Steamroller with 
>> custom Canti mounts) in favour of a bike with disc brakes, thinking that 
>> would be the way to go for all-season riding. For reference, I live in the 
>> middle of Canada where we have snow up to 6 months of the year, with 
>> temperatures hovering well below -20C for a lot of that.
>>
>> I've recently been eyeing up the Joe Appaloosa as a contender for my next 
>> bike. The idea is that it would be commuter as well as tourer/light 
>> trail/etc. There would be some overlap with other bikes, but I am going to 
>> be honest and say that I am smitten with that bike.
>>
>> Does anyone have any experience riding their Riv in awful wintery 
>> conditions? I've survived on 33c CX tires before, so that aspect of the 
>> bike is less of a concern. I am mostly thinking about the rim brake 
>> concerns and any other things to watch out for. Or maybe I am just trying 
>> to coax myself into moving distinctly into N+1 territory. 
>>
>> I would be happy to hear any thoughts about riding Rivs in awful winter 
>> conditions.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

[Den John]

Thanks John, maybe Ronny Romance just has a huge stack of 26mm clamp stems
from the 1990s in his parts stash :-)

I bought a used Clem H in April 2021 and built it with a set of steel
Ergotec Beach cruiser bars because they were the only thing
I could find that looked even little a bit like the Ortho bars. I really
love the range of positions, and the sweep is much more natural than flat
mtb bars. Not so keen on the 880g weight though...

Cheers,
John


On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 at 20:05, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Eric,
>I tried out a 120mm Technomic Deluxe and a 120mm Pearl for initial fit,
> and I liked the little bit of extra reach the Pearl gives me. A Nitto Pearl
> stem sunk all the way down in my Hunqapillar's short head tube still puts
> these bars about 8 cm's above my saddle.
>
> For some reason, Nitto measures the Pearl differently than the Technomic
> Deluxe and the Pearl is about 8-9mm longer. Why? I don't know.
>
> So if I decide later I need to raise these bars a bit higher, I think I'm
> going to need that one extra centimeter of the 130mm Technomic Deluxe.
>
>
> Hi Johnny,
>Most handlebars Crust sells are 26mm or 31.8mm, maybe that's why? Could
> strength be a factor?  Fingers crossed Crust starts to stock some 120-130mm
> stems for these bars.
>
> I think the demand for these bars caught Crust & Uncle Ron completely off
> guard.  Back in February 2021, when I emailed Uncle Ron with questions
> about a photo of what looked like giant, mutant Albatross bars on his
> Atlantis(?), he answered, "congrats on being the only person interested
> in my ortho back bars lol. it's a state of mind... "
>
> But then Crust put up those Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Back Bars Sesion#1-#3
> ride videos up on Youtube, and Uncle Ron posted Instagram photos, and they
> created a monster.
>
> John
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 4:22:13 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> @frahm30: I'm working on three builds plus a repair plus a drivetrain
>> upgrade! Five bikes in varying stages of... disaster. Sorry to tempt you
>> with my Ortho Fresh Bars (Still In Box for maximum health benefits).
>>
>> John, Ben's Cycle has the 26.0 clamp diameter, 190mm quill Technomic
>> deluxe in size up to 120mm. If you can abide that lost centimeter check
>> 'em here
>> 
>> .
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:05:09 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> I've been trying to find a 130mm Technomic deluxe with a 190mm quill,
>>> but it looks like I'll have to use a 120mm Nitto Pearl until I do. I don't
>>> need them too high, so fingers crossed.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-8 Bones wrote:
>>>
 Sadly mine are in the shed too, and have not yet seen any use. I
 attached them to my Clem H on a 12cm Tallux but I haven't finished putting
 it together. A 26.0 faceplater quill would probably be ideal but I don't
 know where to find one of those. I've got an extra dirt drop but I assumed
 that would bring them too close to me. One of those threadless stem
 adapters would probably work great but I'm not too keen on the aesthetics.
 I'm not a huge dude and I don't anticipate I'll have any issues with the
 Tallux. I'll be sure to report back once I get it rolling though.

 Bones
 On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 8:18:25 PM UTC-5 fra...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Still in the shed? Oh man. Sure you don’t want to just pass them
> along? Because I’m in! Haha
>
> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:57 PM UTC-8 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> "Orthopedic back Bars...for performance applications" 
>>
>> That gave me a chuckle.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 2:14:35 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John – I haven't tried the bars but have a set in the shed. I seem
>>> to recall somewhere Ron recommended adding some friction compound to the
>>> stem. Oh, I found it.
>>>
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 5.14.07 PM.png]
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:29:32 PM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>>
 I found that a single bolt dirt drip stem holds okay, I mounted it
 on a 4 bolt stem it felt more secure, yet to be field tested.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 8, 2022, at 12:32 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 

 And did you need any friction paste or Loctite in the bar clamp?

 John

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Re: [RBW] Has anyone tried out their Uncle Ron's Orthopedic Bars?

[Den John]

Does anyone know why they went for a 26mm clamp rather than 25.4mm? It 
seems like there's much more choice
in 25.4mm stems (either ahead or quill). 25.4mm would go nicely with a 
Nitto V-4 or V-5, then there's much less worry about slipping.

Cheers,
Johnny
On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 01:22:13 UTC+1 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> @frahm30: I'm working on three builds plus a repair plus a drivetrain 
> upgrade! Five bikes in varying stages of... disaster. Sorry to tempt you 
> with my Ortho Fresh Bars (Still In Box for maximum health benefits). 
>
> John, Ben's Cycle has the 26.0 clamp diameter, 190mm quill Technomic 
> deluxe in size up to 120mm. If you can abide that lost centimeter check 
> 'em here 
> 
> . 
>
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:05:09 PM UTC-5 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> I've been trying to find a 130mm Technomic deluxe with a 190mm quill, but 
>> it looks like I'll have to use a 120mm Nitto Pearl until I do. I don't need 
>> them too high, so fingers crossed.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 10:10:23 AM UTC-8 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> Sadly mine are in the shed too, and have not yet seen any use. I 
>>> attached them to my Clem H on a 12cm Tallux but I haven't finished putting 
>>> it together. A 26.0 faceplater quill would probably be ideal but I don't 
>>> know where to find one of those. I've got an extra dirt drop but I assumed 
>>> that would bring them too close to me. One of those threadless stem 
>>> adapters would probably work great but I'm not too keen on the aesthetics. 
>>> I'm not a huge dude and I don't anticipate I'll have any issues with the 
>>> Tallux. I'll be sure to report back once I get it rolling though.
>>>
>>> Bones
>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 8:18:25 PM UTC-5 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Still in the shed? Oh man. Sure you don’t want to just pass them along? 
 Because I’m in! Haha

 On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:16:57 PM UTC-8 John Phillips wrote:

> "Orthopedic back Bars...for performance applications" 
>
> That gave me a chuckle.
>
> John
>
> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 2:14:35 PM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> John – I haven't tried the bars but have a set in the shed. I seem to 
>> recall somewhere Ron recommended adding some friction compound to the 
>> stem. 
>> Oh, I found it. 
>>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-02-08 at 5.14.07 PM.png]
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 4:29:32 PM UTC-5 Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>>> I found that a single bolt dirt drip stem holds okay, I mounted it 
>>> on a 4 bolt stem it felt more secure, yet to be field tested. 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2022, at 12:32 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> And did you need any friction paste or Loctite in the bar clamp?
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5e1e78f7-0869-49ea-b359-309bc00dafbfn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Favorite 26" tires

[Den John]

Been very pleased with the Panaracer Gavel King SK I bought a while ago. 
Been on a couple of builds. I currently have them on
a fixed wheel MTB I built in the summer. They were a bit scary in mud when 
riding a geared bike, but they are much better on the fixie. 

I also liked the Maxxis DTH as a reasonably priced skinwall commuter tyre. 
2,3" is a bit wide for an old MTB frame - can't get fenders over there. 

Cheers,
Johnny

On Thursday, 3 February 2022 at 06:36:26 UTC+1 exliontamer wrote:

> Strong second for the Continental Contact Speed. Perfect combo of speed, 
> comfort, and durability. They're worth double what they sell for. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 2, 2022 at 9:38:09 PM UTC-6 Ken Mattina wrote:
>
>> I really like the Continental Contact Speed. They're a little hard to 
>> find but available on ebay and amazon.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 5:19 PM Lynn Haas  wrote:
>>
>>> I moved to Iowa this year, and am experiencing my first Iowa winter. I 
>>> never expected to spend this much time on a trainer. I even signed up for 
>>> Zwift. Why is there a bike path inside a volcano?
>>>
>>> Anyway, my Panaracer Paselas have a weird spot where the casing joins 
>>> that goes thunk-thunk-thunk on the rollers. It's driving me nuts. I don't 
>>> want to put a trainer tire on the bike. I want to believe that I'm going to 
>>> go ride outside again sometime before the end of time.
>>>
>>> What are the favored 26 inch road-ish tire favorites these days? I have 
>>> had and disliked Schwalbes. My last set of Marathon Supremes picked up an 
>>> ungodly array of laceration-inducing, afternoon-ruining, sharp objects. I 
>>> was quite pleased with the Panaracers until I started riding inside. My 
>>> downstairs neighbors are probably unhappy with the thunk-thunk-thunk, too. 
>>> It definitely scares the cat. I'm on an MUSA Atlantis and could go up to 
>>> about 40mm with my fender setup. Ideas?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b06c87a8-f942-4ce5-9190-c8d1d4828d6en%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Where did the spring go?
>> Where did my hormones go?
>> Where did my energy go?
>> Where did my go go?
>> Where did the pleasure go?
>> Where did my hair go?
>>
>> -- Ray Davies
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Shoes for winter riding

[Den John]

My two (€) cents:

I ordered a pair of Five Ten Trail Cross GTX because I was planning a ride 
in the snow on the Belgian High Fens (Hoge Venen). 
They didn't turn up on time, so I made do with what I already had for 
footwear: Specialized Rime MTB shoes, knee length sealskinz socks, and
Endura Neoprene overshoes. It worked OK: we were out for about 5 hours with 
a café stop half way, and I only really noticed cold feet towards the end. 
It was about -3°c up there, there was snow fall but not much wind.  

The Five Tens have since turned up and I've used them for a couple of 
commutes (30km each way). They seem OK so far, but it's not been especially 
cold or wet and certainly not snowy. They are one of the few flat pedal 
winter shoes out there (Vaude do something similar). Note that there seems 
to be a non-GTX version of the Trail Cross. 

I also looked at Vans MTE shoes, some of them seem to have flat enough 
soles for cycling. https://www.vans.eu/mte.html  Has anyone tried them?

Cheers,
Johnny

On Wednesday, 2 February 2022 at 09:17:15 UTC+1 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Well, if global warming fails to appear and we get nucular winter instead, 
> I'll look for an updated pair. As things stand now, we here in high desert 
> ABQ are lucky if we get a couple of decent snows per year, and rarely get 
> more than a week of lows low enough for wearing my old pair.
>
> Tho"  4" snow predicted for later today, and low of 5* Thurs night! I 
> hope to ride in the snow, but will stay inside until it warms up to at 
> least mid teens.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 10:42 PM Josh Brown  wrote:
>
>> "Do the models from the last 5 years use the same wrap-around neoprene 
>> sock?"
>>
>> Not the model I mentioned, which are more like a hiking boot with a stiff 
>> sole that can easily be used for walking around. 
>>
>> Josh in NYC
>>
>

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[RBW] Marin Larkspur - any thoughts?

[Den John]

Hello all,

My LBS has a Marin Larkspur 2 in stock. When I saw it in the shop, my first 
thought 
was that it's a knock-off of the Clem-L or Platypus. 

https://www.marinbikes.com/bikes/family/larkspur

I'm interested in this bike because my wife has expressed an interest in 
gravel riding/easy mountain biking, and this looks like a relatively 
accessible way to get into it. A Rivendell isn't really feasible due to us 
being in Belgium, the way Rivs sell out within minutes of going online, 
etc. etc. 

There's a short review of the Larkspur on Path Less Pedalled, seems quite 
positive and gives the impression that it's quite well suited for what my 
wife wants her bikes to do - utility with a bit of off road at the weekends.

My other idea was to find an old mixte/low instep mountain bike frame and 
do it up as a PPR (Poor Person's Riv), but all the ones I found so far are 
pretty nasty low end mid-90's BSOs, and all in stupidly small sizes for 
some reason. It's easy to find quite nice Mixte frames, but they tend to 
have limited tyre clearance so they probably won't work so well off road. I 
think it'd be less trouble to just go for the Larkspur in this case. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Marin?

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Den John]

Maybe it's something the factories that build the framesets do, rather than
Rivendell. In any case, it still seems likely that it's less labour
intensive to put on a sticker than to do some more elaborate chainstay
protection.

Johnny

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 at 07:55, Nick Payne  wrote:

> On Sunday, 18 July 2021 at 3:19:20 am UTC+10 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> @Nick Payne Rivendell has all kinds of stuff on their site that you can
>> do yourself but they don't put on their complete bikes as standard.
>> Adjustable cup BBs, shellack over bar tape, cork grips, home made pump
>> pegs and grips,... Grant P likes the adjustable BBs but says it's not
>> economical to put them on all the completes they send out. Maybe the same
>> goes for the clear plastic chainstay covers: that's probably just the
>> easiest, quickest way to protect the bikes that they build up.
>>
>
> No, these weren't built-up bikes that I bought. They were bare framesets,
> and they both came with clear plastic chainstay protector already stuck on.
>
> Nick
>
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Re: [RBW] Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Den John]

Velo Orange made leather top tube covers like that for a while, but not any
more. It could also be leather bar tape repurposed as a TT cover. Again,
I think VO have stopped making their elk skin TT bar tape.
Brick Lane Bikes make a leather TT cover too but it only seems to fit
narrower tubing than the 31mm tubes on my Rivendell bikes.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 at 03:39, Matthew Williams <
matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I spotted this nice bit of leatherwork at my local shop. Simple,
> functional, elegant, and it looks great.
>
> Does anyone know if this a custom/self-made piece, or is it from a shop
> somewhere? It's gorgeous--who made this?
>
>
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>
>
>
> On Jul 6, 2021, at 4:31 AM, Den John  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> What do people do for Riv-ish top tube protection for their bikes?
>
> Clear stickers like helicopter tape don't seem very Riv-ish, tend to peel
> off and look a mess after a while, and possibly aren't the best from an
> environmental perspective.
>
> BMX/mountain bike pads with velcro fixings seem ok but aren't a very good
> match aesthetically. I'm using an old MTB pad at the moment.
>
> I've seen some ready made leather top tube covers but they don't seem to
> fit the 31mm diameter tubes on my Atlantis or Clem H. Similarly, Velo
> Orange had some elk skin bar tape but again I don't think it would fit. A
> home made leather TT cover might work I suppose.
>
> I've seen some people put shellacked bar tape along all or most of their
> TT but that operation looks like a massive PITA IMO and it's not easily
> removable once it's been done.
>
> What I'd really like is a canvas cover made of something like Carradice
> waxed cotton duck (it would match my bags at least) but I've not found
> anyone who makes something like that.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> Cheers,
> Johnny
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: FS: 56cm Atlantis MIT (650B)

[Den John]

Hello Max,

Bike Insights has geometry details for the 2017 and 2018 Atlantis, both 
with 650B wheels. Not sure if the OP's bike is the 2017 or 2018.

https://bikeinsights.com/bike-geometries/5d23cd33b263250017b258c8-2017-may-geo-chart-rivendell-bicycle-works-atlantis-base-56-650b
https://bikeinsights.com/bike-geometries/5ad1288a9127aa0014fa1d9b-2018-rivendell-bicycle-works-atlantis-base-56

I have the 2018 version with the long chainstays. I have a 90cm PBH which 
is top of the recommended size range. I wanted to use wide
drop bars and 650B wheels so I went for the 56cm instead of the 59cm. The 
fit suits me fine albeit with quite a bit of exposed seatpost. 
There is some discussion about the accuracy of the BI numbers but they 
match the measurements I've taken. 

I think the 2018 Atlantis was the last drop-bar specific version, since 
then the TT has got longer. TBH I don't understand why Riv doesn't make 
either the Appaloosa or Atlantis more drop bar friendly since the two 
frames are otherwise very similar, then people would have a better choice 
between drops or swept back bars. 

If you especially want drop bars and you can't find the 2018 Atlantis, a 
Homer or Sam in the equivalent size might work better than the current 
Atlantis. 

Cheers,
Johnny

On Wednesday, 7 July 2021 at 23:57:51 UTC+2 max.c@gmail.com wrote:

> Do you have the geometry for this year? Mostly interested in what the 
> appropriate PBH range is. Thanks!
>
> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 11:12:44 PM UTC-5 Ian Dickson wrote:
>
>> Wheels are sold. I might have a buyer for the frame, but not totally sure 
>> yet.
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:46:18 AM UTC-6 Ian Dickson wrote:
>>
>>> Sale is pending on the wheels. That was quick.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 12:26:19 AM UTC-6 Ian Dickson wrote:
>>>
 I'm selling my Atlantis. Frame, fork and headset, $1100 plus actual 
 cost of shipping via bikeflights. I rode this quite a bit, mostly on the 
 road, until I got my Sam. Then I didn't ride it all. I can't say why I 
 prefer the Sam -- they both ride great, my speed was the same on both 
 bikes, and the Atlantis is more versatile. I just really like the Sam. 

 Frame is generally in great shape, with some tiny chips and three 
 significant gouges to the paint. The worst is on the drive-side chainstay, 
 from a chainsuck incident (I wouldn't go past 2.1" tires on this frame if 
 I 
 were you). There's another on a seatstay, and one on the bottom bracket 
 shell. You can see them well enough in the flickr photos. It's just paint 
 damage, but you'll want to seal those spots with something. I have never 
 crashed this bike.

 I've also got a pair of Velocity-built wheels (these 
 )
  
 that I'll throw in for $200 if you want them. If somebody wants the wheels 
 but not the bike, they're yours for $250 shipped. 

 More photos here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmW8ZTTf
 [image: Atlantis right.jpg]

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Den John]

@Sean B: Those Blue Lug pads are exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!
I may see if my wife can produce something similar with her sewing
machine...

@Johnny Alien: I saw someone at the Eroica in Italy who had done his whole
handlebar with twine. It looked cool but I thought no way I'd try it. Even
taping bars with normal tape tends to drive me demented.

@Leslie: what is Riv-ish when it comes to bike finishing and accessories?
For me, a few things:
- Preference for materials that can be treated or repaired to keep
them usable, rather than materials that have to be thrown out when they
start to get tired
- Preference for natural materials like cotton, twine and leather
that develop a patina
- Designs that don't have large ugly logos, and/or colours that
clash with Rivendell's colours

@Everyone else: thanks for your suggestions.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Tue, 6 Jul 2021 at 18:02, Sean B.  wrote:

> I use one of the mini protectors from Blue Lug to keep my bar end shifters
> from scratching the TT . They also make full top tube protectors too.
>
> https://global.bluelug.com/accessories/frame-pad.html
>
> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 10:01:52 AM UTC-5 Drw wrote:
>
>> If you were looking for just protection from handlebars flopping into the
>> top tube, the pake protector works really well, is small and not incredibly
>> noticeable...though i wish it was unbranded.
>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 7:54:10 AM UTC-7 Leslie Tierstein wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by "Riv-ish".  My favorite top tube protector
>>> is by Green Guru, marketed to messengers to help them carry the bike on
>>> their shoulders.  Velcro closure, not too much padding. Unfortunately, it
>>> is currently sold out:
>>> Top Tube Protector - Green Guru Gear
>>> 
>>>
>>> Leslie Tierstein
>>> Arlington VA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 6, 2021 at 7:31:22 AM UTC-4 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hello,

 What do people do for Riv-ish top tube protection for their bikes?

 Clear stickers like helicopter tape don't seem very Riv-ish, tend to
 peel off and look a mess after a while, and possibly aren't the best from
 an environmental perspective.

 BMX/mountain bike pads with velcro fixings seem ok but aren't a very
 good match aesthetically. I'm using an old MTB pad at the moment.

 I've seen some ready made leather top tube covers but they don't seem
 to fit the 31mm diameter tubes on my Atlantis or Clem H. Similarly, Velo
 Orange had some elk skin bar tape but again I don't think it would fit. A
 home made leather TT cover might work I suppose.

 I've seen some people put shellacked bar tape along all or most of
 their TT but that operation looks like a massive PITA IMO and it's not
 easily removable once it's been done.

 What I'd really like is a canvas cover made of something like Carradice
 waxed cotton duck (it would match my bags at least) but I've not found
 anyone who makes something like that.

 Any other ideas?

 Cheers,
 Johnny


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[RBW] Riv-ish Top Tube Protection

[Den John]

Hello,

What do people do for Riv-ish top tube protection for their bikes? 

Clear stickers like helicopter tape don't seem very Riv-ish, tend to peel 
off and look a mess after a while, and possibly aren't the best from an 
environmental perspective. 

BMX/mountain bike pads with velcro fixings seem ok but aren't a very good 
match aesthetically. I'm using an old MTB pad at the moment. 

I've seen some ready made leather top tube covers but they don't seem to 
fit the 31mm diameter tubes on my Atlantis or Clem H. Similarly, Velo 
Orange had some elk skin bar tape but again I don't think it would fit. A 
home made leather TT cover might work I suppose. 

I've seen some people put shellacked bar tape along all or most of their TT 
but that operation looks like a massive PITA IMO and it's not easily 
removable once it's been done. 

What I'd really like is a canvas cover made of something like Carradice 
waxed cotton duck (it would match my bags at least) but I've not found 
anyone who makes something like that.

Any other ideas?

Cheers,
Johnny


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[RBW] Re: WTB: Giro Rumble, discrete colorway, size 10 1/2 American-equivalent

[Den John]

Hello Patrick,

I would avoid the Giro Rumble if I were you. I had a pair for summer 
commuting a few years ago and they fell apart after a couple of months. 
The stitching behind the toe box came loose, and the sole came away from 
the shoe at the back because it's not very securely attached. If they're 
not up to commuting, I doubt they'd be much good for light hiking either. 

I currently have a pair of Vaude ASM Tsali Mid STX that I've had for more 
than 2 years, and there's still a bit of life in them. These are more like 
a 2-3 season shoe, whereas the Rumble is more 1-2 season. The Vaudes have 
lasted pretty well through every kind of riding I do. Bit too warm in full 
summer, but they are pretty close to a proper hiking shoe and are nice to 
walk around in. 

Johnny in Belgium



On Sunday, 20 June 2021 at 22:33:39 UTC+2 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I blathered about walkable shoe and pedal combinations, and one option was 
> a more walkable SPD shoe. Someone suggested the Rumble, and reviews said it 
> indeed is better for walking than many SPD shoes (doubtless including the 
> old Shimanos I wore to church today that make one hobble instead of 
> striding.
>
> I can't find my size online. Can anyone point me to a size 44 or 45, 
> whichever is closer to a US 10.5, assuming you know how Giros fit, in 
> non-alarming colors? (I say "44 or 45" because I recently got a pair of 
> cycling shoes, not Rumbles, in 44, and they fit like 9s, and a pair of 45 
> Sidi touring shoes, and they fit like small 10s.)
>
> Or, advise me on another made and model of SPD shoe that is comfortable 
> for light hiking and standing around.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Pseudo-Rivendell Thread?

[Den John]

I agree, I also think modern gravel bikes would be better off with 26" x
55mm tyres, rather than 700 x 42 or whatever the 'standard' is this year.

Couple of possible additions to the list:

Raleigh Tamarack - an early and seemingly unsuccessful attempt at a 650B
mtb: photo (not mine) here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/7556426@N06/1424440013/

Bianchi Project Series - there is a bit of discussion about these but it
seems the Project 7 was an early attempt at a 29" MTB rather than a hybrid.
Would probably do nicely as a version of one of Rivendell's 29" models, if
you could find one.


On Tue, 11 May 2021 at 18:44, Matthew P 
wrote:

> Johnny, thanks for the link. And Michael, thanks for the feedback.
> This clarifies things. Sounds like the biggest downfall of the bike was
> just the 26" wheel size, and is only a downfall in terms of acceptance and
> not in performance.
> Its sad to think that a market preference for 700c wheels, with skinny
> tires, "killed" 26" bikes like the Rock Combo.
> Something like the visionaries having to follow the blind.
> I'll tack some on to my question in my previous post: desired allrounder
> bikes of yore -
> - Rock Combo
> - XO-1
> - MB-1 and MB-0 ?
> - Hunqapillar
> Happy to see additions or subtractions to/from this list.
> @kevs_bikes and @sfbiketrader have some interesting ones on Instagram.
>
> On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 4:53:51 AM UTC-7 Michael Iauch wrote:
>
>> thanks for that link johnny. matthew -  mine does have some pretty shoddy
>> tig - seat tube connection has a hole. The BB height did seem excessively
>> low when I first jumped on it, but surprisingly I haven't had too much
>> issue out riding, even on some pretty rough trail. And that is pretty much
>> what I ride it on - rougher mixed terrain rides. It has that magic feel.
>> Would love to have a Rivendell to compare it to!
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 3:19:51 AM UTC-4 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> @Matthew P
>>>
>>> Here's a slightly more detailed version of the criticism of the Rock
>>> Combo, seems like Bryan Bainbridge was unhappy
>>> that the factory that made them changed the BB drop and the tubing spec
>>> (the comment at the bottom of the page is from BB himself):
>>>
>>>
>>> http://2wheelfetish.blogspot.com/2012/04/drop-bar-mountain-bike-redux-vintage.html
>>>
>>> I still love the Rock Combo concept and design though.
>>>
>>> Johnny in Belgium
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 18:43:18 UTC+2 Matthew P wrote:
>>>
 I love this thread.
 And I like Liam's RockCombo on the Radavist
 https://theradavist.com/2021/02/liams-specialized-rock-combo-bikepacking-rig/
 But I thought it interesting and funny that they went and asked the
 bike designer (or one of them), Bryant Bainbridge, and he basically trashed
 it!
 Thoughts?
 Any other particularly coveted bikes of yore, and why?
 Thanks.
 -Matthew

 On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 9:33:59 AM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Meanwhile this group is full of folks with Rivendells who lust after a
> Rock Combo    beauty collection, that 615 is amazing too
>
> On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 08:34:17 UTC-7 Michael Iauch wrote:
>
>> Im in the same category Clayton! hope to get a rivendell at some
>> point. until then - saracen conquest 650b, miyata 615, specialized rock
>> combo.
>>
>> Michael
>> Boone, NC.
>>
>> [image: 804F00C5-FD25-4907-BD37-23C5CD513C4B_1_105_c.jpeg][image:
>> 6C3B2396-11F8-4B6F-99BD-1F399F91C96D_1_105_c.jpeg][image:
>> 3E13D09B-31DC-4501-BC22-F41A43CE54D0_1_105_c.jpeg]
>> On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:21:07 AM UTC-4 Jim Bronson wrote:
>>
>>> What brakes did you use on your Raleigh to convert from 27" to 700c
>>> rims?
>>>
>>> On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:29 Bob Ehrenbeck  wrote:
>>>
 I do own a Riv (a 52 Clem H, purchased as a frame during the
 original pre-sale), but it's been built up as an MTB, so it doesn't 
 really
 have that classic Rivendell look.

 But I also have a 1981 Raleigh Super Record that's been
 reconfigured over the years to look Riv-ish. It started out as a
 five-speed, 27" drop-bar bike with stem shifters, but now it's got 700C
 rims, a six-speed freewheel, Albatross bars, Suntour Bar-Con shifters,
 Brooks B-17 saddle, cork grips, VO fenders, Carradice Barley saddlebag,
 bell, etc. Since this photo was taken I've added a Mark's Rack in the 
 rear.
 And after swapping out the crankset, seat post and other heavier 
 parts, the
 only original items left (aside from the frame) are the hubs, stem,
 derailleurs, and brake calipers!

 Bob E
 Cranford, NJ[image: Raleigh Sandy Hook copy.jpg]
 On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 5:10:33 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That is pretty! And an extra gold star for the light mount.

Re: [RBW] Re: Pseudo-Rivendell Thread?

[Den John]

 @Matthew P

Here's a slightly more detailed version of the criticism of the Rock Combo, 
seems like Bryan Bainbridge was unhappy
that the factory that made them changed the BB drop and the tubing spec 
(the comment at the bottom of the page is from BB himself):

http://2wheelfetish.blogspot.com/2012/04/drop-bar-mountain-bike-redux-vintage.html

I still love the Rock Combo concept and design though. 

Johnny in Belgium



On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 18:43:18 UTC+2 Matthew P wrote:

> I love this thread.
> And I like Liam's RockCombo on the Radavist 
> https://theradavist.com/2021/02/liams-specialized-rock-combo-bikepacking-rig/
> But I thought it interesting and funny that they went and asked the bike 
> designer (or one of them), Bryant Bainbridge, and he basically trashed it!
> Thoughts?
> Any other particularly coveted bikes of yore, and why?
> Thanks.
> -Matthew
>
> On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 9:33:59 AM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile this group is full of folks with Rivendells who lust after a 
>> Rock Combo    beauty collection, that 615 is amazing too 
>>
>> On Monday, 10 May 2021 at 08:34:17 UTC-7 Michael Iauch wrote:
>>
>>> Im in the same category Clayton! hope to get a rivendell at some point. 
>>> until then - saracen conquest 650b, miyata 615, specialized rock combo.
>>>
>>> Michael 
>>> Boone, NC.
>>>
>>> [image: 804F00C5-FD25-4907-BD37-23C5CD513C4B_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
>>> 6C3B2396-11F8-4B6F-99BD-1F399F91C96D_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
>>> 3E13D09B-31DC-4501-BC22-F41A43CE54D0_1_105_c.jpeg]
>>> On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:21:07 AM UTC-4 Jim Bronson wrote:
>>>
 What brakes did you use on your Raleigh to convert from 27" to 700c 
 rims?

 On Mon, May 10, 2021, 09:29 Bob Ehrenbeck  wrote:

> I do own a Riv (a 52 Clem H, purchased as a frame during the original 
> pre-sale), but it's been built up as an MTB, so it doesn't really have 
> that 
> classic Rivendell look. 
>
> But I also have a 1981 Raleigh Super Record that's been reconfigured 
> over the years to look Riv-ish. It started out as a five-speed, 27" 
> drop-bar bike with stem shifters, but now it's got 700C rims, a six-speed 
> freewheel, Albatross bars, Suntour Bar-Con shifters, Brooks B-17 saddle, 
> cork grips, VO fenders, Carradice Barley saddlebag, bell, etc. Since this 
> photo was taken I've added a Mark's Rack in the rear. And after swapping 
> out the crankset, seat post and other heavier parts, the only original 
> items left (aside from the frame) are the hubs, stem, derailleurs, and 
> brake calipers!
>
> Bob E
> Cranford, NJ[image: Raleigh Sandy Hook copy.jpg]
> On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 5:10:33 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That is pretty! And an extra gold star for the light mount.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, May 7, 2021 at 11:19:58 PM UTC-4 Andrew Turner wrote:
>>>
>>>  ... Here's my '87 FW Evans back when it was doing double duty as a 
>>> errands bike and quick road bike. It's much less sexy these days 
>>> sporting 9 
>>> speed bits, fenders, and sturdier rubber, and it's loving life as a 
>>> designated commuter. I had a quick stint with a Roadini but otherwise 
>>> I'm 
>>> in a similar boat: blissfully watching from a distance at all these 
>>> cool 
>>> riv builds...but I'm also still very content with what used framesets 
>>> have 
>>> left to offer.


 [image: 2021-01-23.jpg]

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Re: [RBW] Re: Talk Me Out of Building My Own Wheels

[Den John]

If you don't want to cough up for a book, I found the Barnett Manual 
section on wheel building excellent. The system for spoke lacing is really 
clear and
systematic. I've probably built 10 or so sets of wheels, and with the BM I 
never got into trouble with lacing up. You should be able to find a pdf of 
an old edition
of the BM online.

I have a cheapish truing stand and dish stick that have lasted me nearly 10 
years. A worthwhile investment IMO. You can bodge along with homemade tools 
but
I found as a beginner that it's less frustrating with the proper tools. 

Johnny in Belgium

On Friday, 5 March 2021 at 19:07:09 UTC+1 Mike Godwin wrote:

> Yep, build your own. I'm somewhere north of 100 wheel builds (not pairs), 
> for friends and family, and self. I've used Brandt's method and over time 
> picked up a truing stand, tension meter (both Park), and dishing tool 
> (Minoura). My first wheels were done using the bike for a truing stand, and 
> like others here, changing rims and just tensioning pre-built wheels. It is 
> relaxing, a way to catch up on long neglected albums or CDs, and its 
> rewarding to ride the wheels you built for thousands of miles.
>
> Mike SLO CA 
>
> On Thursday, March 4, 2021 at 3:50:35 PM UTC-8 RichS wrote:
>
>> It is indeed Jim Langley. Agree with Garth on how well the information is 
>> presented.
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>> (Building a set of wheels right now)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2021, at 11:50 AM, Pancake  wrote:
>>
>> Is this the video you were referring to? 
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUqul03hbZ8
>> Jim Langley (not Land)?
>>
>> On Monday, 19 October 2020 at 10:48:25 UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  You'll be alright Steven. The difference to me between wheels built 
>>> by me and wheels built by a dedicated professional is theirs are within 
>>> tighter tolerances and they don't ever need touched, at least mine haven't 
>>> and I have a 20 year old pair from Joe Young. They also do it much quicker 
>>> of course. 
>>>
>>>Jim Land on youtube has the best video of building/truing wheels I've 
>>> seen, his way is presentation is very easy going and more intuitive than 
>>> all the books that I once read, and hated. 
>>>
>>> "Just one more book Alice ... and POW .. right in the kisser !" 
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Den John]

Well one of the interesting questions that follows from the Riv/Crust
approach is whether anyone else is doing the same thing. If not, why?

The only example I know of for certain is Stooge Cycles in the UK, which
has an approach based on limited runs of production
bikes made in a major Taiwanese factory. Each run of bikes has its own
identity, but within a general concept of progressive
geometry, non-suspension steel bikes with a nod to early MTB history. It
seems to be working well: each run sells out pretty quickly.
Stooge also gets its identity from the fact it's basically run by one
person, who puts a lot of his personal interests into it.
Oh, and the band/music link is already done for you with Stooge :-)

Black Mountain Cycles is another example I suppose.

I didn't intend to imply that any of this stuff is contrived. I think with
these smaller brands, the identity emerges as they go on and try different
ideas. So it's interesting to follow them.

If anyone can think of a bike brand that would match with Jello Biafra, I'd
be interested to hear about it.





On Fri, 12 Feb 2021 at 18:28, Mark Roland  wrote:

> I don't think anyone is disputing the notion that Rivendell and Crust are
> niche brands that have created a feeling, or lifestyle or culture around
> their brand. Those words sound not quite right and maybe a bit too
> premeditated. In the case of these two companies, the marketing angle is
> really an outgrowth of who they are and what they believe in and share with
> their customers. Anyway not breaking news. I'm going Mark Knopfler/Grant
> Petersen. True, Knopfler races cars. But he also started the Notting
> Hillbillies, which is kinda like Hillibikes, going back to roots. And he's
> good, and went against the heavy rock/punk scene in the late 70s, forging
> his own way.
>
> On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 2:30:51 AM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I absolutely agree with Ben's point about how both Rivendell and Crust
>> have tried to build up a subculture around their brands that is about more
>> than just the bikes.
>> At the same time, doing this helps people get an idea of what you can do
>> with the bikes they make, e.g. the way the Scapegoat is a model designed by
>> someone who does
>> a very specific sort of riding.
>>
>> Couple more guitarist-frame builder connections:
>>
>> Tom Ritchey > Tony Iommi: Played pivotal role in creation of entire
>> genre. Had to compete with a flamboyant frontman to get credit (Ozzy/Gary
>> Fisher)
>> JP Weigle > Robert Fripp: Perfectionist with distinctive style. Not well
>> known outside the circle of cognoscenti
>>
>> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 19:43, Ben Miller  wrote:
>>
>>> Okay, okay, I have to admit Johnny's comparisons of "Riv is to the Dead
>>> as Crust is to Bowie" got a laugh out of me. That and some of the other
>>> comments got me thinking a bit, Riv and Crust are more than just the bikes.
>>> Sure other bike companies were influenced by Grant: Surly, Velo Orange,
>>> Rawland, etc, but I'd make a case that they lack the personality that Riv
>>> and Crust have.
>>>
>>> Crust literally started because Matt made the bikes that he and his
>>> friends wanted to ride: Evasion/Matt, Scapegoat/The Goat, Cheeco/Angelica,
>>> and Romanceur/Ronnie. That's pretty bold and subversive in a Riv way. And
>>> these are bikes that definitely didn't exist in any other form at the time.
>>> In many ways, the Bombora which Russ used in the comparisons is the most
>>> "normal" bike in the Crust lineup (Dan from Bike Insights made a flowchart
>>> and to get to the Bombora the answer is "Man, I just want a bike. I'm not a
>>> weirdo")
>>>
>>> But even more than that, the team a Crust is then filled out with these
>>> personalities. Much like Riv highlighting their team through "Staff Bikes"
>>> and their Instagram account, Crust does that too with their Elevator to
>>> Hell videos. And both companies use their platform to raise awareness to
>>> causes they care about. Crust's sponsoring of the Slim One because they can
>>> and think it is the right thing to do is along the same lines as Riv's BRF
>>> experiment, though perhaps less controversial. And Grant being open about
>>> cash flow problems isn't that different from Crust taking a break over
>>> holidays and being open about feeling overwhelmed at the time.
>>>
>>> All this adds up to two companies that are almost as much about the
>>> people as the bikes. I find myself routing for Grant and Matt, hoping their
>>> projects work out even if I don't want that particular one for myself. I
>>> definitely can't say that about Surly or New Albion. In a way, both
>>> companies are a bit like custom builders because of that, you feel a
>>> personal connection. I think that is what the makes the Rivendell vs Crust
>>> comparison so unique.
>>>
>>> As far as guitarists: James Iha, Dave Navarro, John Frusciante. Yes, I
>>> am Gen X.
>>>
>>> (Disclaimer: I will tip my hat to Velo Orange, especially when Chris at
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Den John]

I absolutely agree with Ben's point about how both Rivendell and Crust have
tried to build up a subculture around their brands that is about more than
just the bikes.
At the same time, doing this helps people get an idea of what you can do
with the bikes they make, e.g. the way the Scapegoat is a model designed by
someone who does
a very specific sort of riding.

Couple more guitarist-frame builder connections:

Tom Ritchey > Tony Iommi: Played pivotal role in creation of entire genre.
Had to compete with a flamboyant frontman to get credit (Ozzy/Gary Fisher)
JP Weigle > Robert Fripp: Perfectionist with distinctive style. Not well
known outside the circle of cognoscenti

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 19:43, Ben Miller  wrote:

> Okay, okay, I have to admit Johnny's comparisons of "Riv is to the Dead as
> Crust is to Bowie" got a laugh out of me. That and some of the other
> comments got me thinking a bit, Riv and Crust are more than just the bikes.
> Sure other bike companies were influenced by Grant: Surly, Velo Orange,
> Rawland, etc, but I'd make a case that they lack the personality that Riv
> and Crust have.
>
> Crust literally started because Matt made the bikes that he and his
> friends wanted to ride: Evasion/Matt, Scapegoat/The Goat, Cheeco/Angelica,
> and Romanceur/Ronnie. That's pretty bold and subversive in a Riv way. And
> these are bikes that definitely didn't exist in any other form at the time.
> In many ways, the Bombora which Russ used in the comparisons is the most
> "normal" bike in the Crust lineup (Dan from Bike Insights made a flowchart
> and to get to the Bombora the answer is "Man, I just want a bike. I'm not a
> weirdo")
>
> But even more than that, the team a Crust is then filled out with these
> personalities. Much like Riv highlighting their team through "Staff Bikes"
> and their Instagram account, Crust does that too with their Elevator to
> Hell videos. And both companies use their platform to raise awareness to
> causes they care about. Crust's sponsoring of the Slim One because they can
> and think it is the right thing to do is along the same lines as Riv's BRF
> experiment, though perhaps less controversial. And Grant being open about
> cash flow problems isn't that different from Crust taking a break over
> holidays and being open about feeling overwhelmed at the time.
>
> All this adds up to two companies that are almost as much about the people
> as the bikes. I find myself routing for Grant and Matt, hoping their
> projects work out even if I don't want that particular one for myself. I
> definitely can't say that about Surly or New Albion. In a way, both
> companies are a bit like custom builders because of that, you feel a
> personal connection. I think that is what the makes the Rivendell vs Crust
> comparison so unique.
>
> As far as guitarists: James Iha, Dave Navarro, John Frusciante. Yes, I am
> Gen X.
>
> (Disclaimer: I will tip my hat to Velo Orange, especially when Chris at
> the helm, feels like a company that had a real personal touch and a sense
> of humor)
>
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 9:44:58 AM UTC-8 Mark Roland wrote:
>
>> Just to clarify, I'm certainly not getting bent because I'm not a fan of
>> the video editing (or the content, for that matter.) And whether or not he
>> is making money, or is trying to make money, or is performing a public
>> service because he enjoys the luxury of enough free time to do so, is not
>> really relevant. He is obviously sincere in what he does and seems to have
>> a decent following. And good for him. After watching the video above, I
>> would not be able to use it to make a decision as to which bike might be
>> better for me. On the one hand, he refers to the Bombora as spicey and
>> sporty. On the other, he says the Riv's steering is quicker, but keeps
>> calling it relaxed and chill. Hard to tell, but it looks like maybe the
>> Bombora has more drop from saddle to bars. Who knows.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 12:15:36 PM UTC-5 mrg...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I love bike comparison videos of every kind. I want to see Rivs vs Rivs
>>> with some tiny difference, Riv vs Crusts, Surlys, carbon TT bikes,
>>> everything. I want to see "I took my Electra Townie to a pump track",
>>> "super-low-trail bike vs penny farthing for grocery getter", "55 Atlantis
>>> 29er vs 56 Atlantis 650b", "Same bike with 12 different handlebar setups",
>>> etc.
>>>
>>> I like what Russ at Path Less Pedaled is doing; he's all about the
>>> "non-competitive side of cycling" which aligns with RBW perfectly.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>> Austin TX
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 10:49:04 AM UTC-6 bjmi...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 If I had a YouTube channel and wanted people to watch, click the like
 button, subscribe, etc... I'd probably write titles that makes people want
 to click them. When I go shopping for a car, I don't get bent about car
 sales tactics that are there for a reason, even if they kind of annoy 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell vs Crust! Which is Better?

[Den John]

OK, since we're off topic anyway, which companies/individual framebuilders 
can be compared with which classic rock bands/musicians? Here's a couple of 
attempts:

Riv> Grateful Dead: fanatically loyal fanbase, plus lots of people who just 
don't get it man.
Surly> Fleetwood Mac. Tend to get dismissed as lightweight pop, but did 
some innovative stuff in their time.
Bruce Gordon> John Lydon. Bit scary, tends to rub people up the wrong way, 
but a major influence.
Crust> David Bowie. Flirting with all kinds of different identities. A bit 
erratic but always good quality. 

Johnny in Belgium

On Thursday, 11 February 2021 at 15:53:40 UTC+1 Eric Daume wrote:

> I’ve had a lot of bikes pass through my garage, but my rSogn is one of the 
> few I regret selling. 
>
> On Thursday, February 11, 2021, Mark Roland  wrote:
>
>> Sorry, cut off the fork legs! Re: current models. I don't think there are 
>> any. Didn't they implode a few years back? (One more non-Riv element to the 
>> Nord--43mm chainstays across all sizes.)
>>
>> [image: IMG_0113.JPG]
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, February 11, 2021 at 12:40:18 AM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I miss the days when Rawland did curved fork legs :(  Such gorgeous 
>>> frames.  I am sure the current models ride nice but just not the same. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 10, 2021 at 9:35 PM Mark Roland  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I agree with Mark S. that the title is just silly clickbait and don't 
 have much interest in watching. I'm sure the video itself is more nuanced, 
 but still not that interested. Crust makes some interesting bicycles, and 
 they appeal to all the people who complain that Rivendell won't do disc 
 brakes or low trail--almost a market sitting there waiting to be provided 
 to. 

 I guess there have been some almost blatant attempts at copying, but 
 that is not necessarily a bad thing, especially if it captures enough of 
 the good but maybe at a lower price point. Also, everyone "copies" --Grant 
 did not reinvent the wheel. However, he took designs (and materials) that 
 had fallen from favor and continued developing them. I think his designs 
 of 
 the last five years are his most radical and successful. One way I know 
 they are the most radical is that it's much harder to find a vintage 
 platform to build up a wanna-be Rivendell--there just isn't anything out 
 there that is close. The way I know they are successful is I own three of 
 them. 

 By the way, the Rawland  Nordavinden  mentioned above, other than being 
 steel, is not particularly Rivish. It uses standard size tubing and it has 
 a barely sloped 7/4/7 top tube and a low trail geometry. It is much more 
 in 
 the vein of a Bicycle Quarterly Rando machine. I had the pleasure of being 
 part of the online design crew that helped develop Rawland's previous 
 offering, the rSogn. It too had a lightweight, standard diameter top tube 
 and low trail design. The main differences were all sizes were 650b, more 
 sloped tt, clearance for wider tires, threadless, beefier fork, and 
 cantilever brakes. Here's mine (since sold, replaced by a L'avecaise, also 
 since sold):

 [image: IMG_0127.JPG]

 On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 11:36:38 PM UTC-5 Ben Miller wrote:

> Well, I guess this thread has gone entirely OT.
>
> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 6:03:33 PM UTC-8 Robert Tilley 
> wrote:
>
>> Richard Thompson is of the best I’ve seen. And a great songwriter. 
>> Right now I’m leaning towards Robert Fripp but it’s hard to argue 
>> against 
>> Thompson. 
>>
>> As far as bikes go, for me old Riv > Crust while Crust > new Riv. I 
>> can’t really get into a lot of the newer frames Riv has put out but I 
>> love 
>> the older models. I’m a Riv retrogrouch I guess.
>>
>> Robert Tilley
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 10, 2021, at 11:47 AM, Mike Godwin  wrote:
>>
>> Actually its Richard Thompson
>>
>>
>> Mike SLO CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 10, 2021 at 10:17:49 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Totally agree on the Crust / Riv collaboration frame. That would be 
>>> really neat. I love the idea of single-batch collaboration runs like 
>>> this, 
>>> and it would be cool to see more of them.  I tried to publicly connect 
>>> Ocean Air Cycles and Rivendell to spark a MIT run of their Rambler 
>>> frameset 
>>> but it didn't work haha. 
>>>
>>> I imagine that collaborative frame being fairly sporty tubing but 
>>> tons of tire clearance, and pretty long in the TT for upright bars or 
>>> zero-reach drop setups 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, 9 February 2021 at 20:03:14 UTC-8 Ben Miller wrote:
>>>

 I think both bike companies are really doing some amazing and 

Re: [RBW] Re: Play & Slipping with Silver Bar End Shifters

[Den John]

yep, I've been able to get barcons to shift 10 sprockets too. I've also
lost that little domed nut. Fell off on a dark, rainy commute home and I
couldn't find it. I replaced it with a nut from a toe clip which so far
hasn't fallen off.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 at 22:22, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I owned 2 or 3 pairs of the original issue Silvers, and fixed the slipping
> with blue Loctite. The bigger problem with the Silvers, in my case, was
> breaking the body when the bike fell over.
>
> I prefer the old Suntour barcons and have built up a small stash. I can
> shift 10 cogs with my right on on only a bit more than 90* of travel (8-sp
> road rd, DA 7401, IIRC), and the shifting is perfectly accurate, and they
> body doesn't break when the bike falls over.
>
> I use blue Loctite on the Suntours too, but only for that easily lost,
> cosmetic, chromed, domed locknut.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 4:22 AM Den John  wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone. I'm in Europe so those Simplex Retrofriction come up
>> every so often on places other than ebay. I'll have a look out for them.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johnny
>>
>> On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 at 04:13, Graham Spencer  wrote:
>>
>>> I had the same issue with mine a decade ago. Never cared for them. My
>>> solution was a used set of simplex retro friction from eBay. They bolt
>>> right on to the pods you have and happily shift my 9spd system smooth as
>>> butter with no slipping, no need for repeat tightening in 10 years. All
>>> with no clicks.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Play & Slipping with Silver Bar End Shifters

[Den John]

Thanks everyone. I'm in Europe so those Simplex Retrofriction come up every
so often on places other than ebay. I'll have a look out for them.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 at 04:13, Graham Spencer  wrote:

> I had the same issue with mine a decade ago. Never cared for them. My
> solution was a used set of simplex retro friction from eBay. They bolt
> right on to the pods you have and happily shift my 9spd system smooth as
> butter with no slipping, no need for repeat tightening in 10 years. All
> with no clicks.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Den John]

That's probably also why a lot of vintage MTBs make better gravel bikes
than most actual gravel bikes :-)

On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 14:25, Mark Roland  wrote:

> And as you know, photos rarely capture the significance of the grade.
> Those late 80s geos are basically like small, flat bar road bikes with a
> bit fatter tires. A geo responsible for popularizing if not coining the
> term "endo", so not terribly confidence-inspiring.
>
> On Thursday, February 4, 2021 at 7:58:26 AM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks Mark. That middle photo looks just like a descent I rode a lot in
>> the summer here in Belgium. Wasn't from 500m elevation though :-)
>> I rode it on a late 80s vintage MTB with no QR, so that was interesting.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johnny
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 13:49, Mark Roland  wrote:
>>
>>> Johnny wrote:
>>> *do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid back
>>> position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so much? *
>>>
>>> Short answer: In my experience and opinion, the longer stays contribute
>>> to a more stable descent.
>>>
>>> I am not an expert gonzo descender, but I ride most of my bicycles up
>>> the Mount Beacon service road. It is steep in places and very steep in
>>> other places, with rutty, rocky, loose dirt conditions most of the year.
>>> You will quickly build up a serious amount of speed without judicious
>>> scrubbing with the brakes.
>>>
>>> While I don't have a dropper post on any of my bikes, or suspension for
>>> that matter, a number of bikes I've gone down on have the seat post quick
>>> release capability, and when I remember, I put the seatpost down, which
>>> puts you in a better control position and makes a different.
>>>
>>> With my Clem Ls and my Susie,  I don't have the quick release. Yet the
>>> downhills feel more manageable and my body does not feel super pitched
>>> forward as on a NORBA geo or even a traditional 80s mtb, with lower bars.
>>> As you surmise, the more laid back position on the bike helps. You also
>>> feel the bumps and moguls a bit less with the longer end--you're not
>>> sitting right at the back of the bus. This is on a road with only a couple
>>> of sharp turns and lots of straightaway. And it may be that adding a
>>> dropper would make a Hillibike even more pleasant on a descent. But unless
>>> you are doing lots of steep, long, or tricky downhills on sketchy stuff,
>>> I'm not sure it would be needed.
>>>
>>> My first Clementine/Clem L at the top.
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_0285(2).JPG]
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_0280.JPG]
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_20201023_080135686(2).jpg]
>>> Susie about to head down.
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Den John]

Hey all,

Not sure if this is on topic, but I wonder if the long chainstays on the 
hillibikes makes dropper posts a bit redundant for this kind of bike?
I.e. do the long stays give more traction and stability and a more laid 
back position so it's not necessary to hang off the back of the saddle so 
much?
Or are the long stays more an advantage for climbing (as mentioned in some 
posts above).
I have a dropper post on one of my bikes and I do like it, but having one 
less mechanical thing to service/go wrong would be nice. 

Cheers,
Johnny
On Thursday, 4 February 2021 at 07:05:12 UTC+1 Matthew P wrote:

> Andrew,
> You mentioned you ditched the pec deck. Care to give your opinion on it? 
> I'm planning on making & using one or two.
> Thanks.
> -Matthew
> on the fence about starting a (new) pec deck post/thread
>
> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 12:07:53 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Grant is a notably competitive steep-climber.  His "philosophy" of short 
>> periods of extreme exertion coupled with his tendency towards slow riding 
>> makes ultra-steep-climbs his perfect activity.  Many of us RBWHQ visitors 
>> know that if Grant doesn't have his hands full, he may just decide "Bill, 
>> grab a bike, let's go" and take you on a climb that will make your lungs 
>> jump out of your chest.  Hillibikes climb exceptionally well.  IF you put 
>> bosco bars on a mainstream mountain bike with really short chainstays, THEN 
>> you would have too-little weight on the front wheel and 'wheelie' on steep 
>> climbs.  Lng chainstays keep your front wheel planted.  Also, climbing 
>> a Grant-selected steep pitch will encourage you to grab your Boscos down as 
>> low as you can to get more leverage over the pedals.  
>>
>> Hillibikes aren't for life risking decents and getting sick air, but they 
>> are really good for aggressively conquering steep climbs.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 3, 2021 at 11:11:02 AM UTC-8 Christopher Cote 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think part of it is your physical proportions and fit. I tend toward a 
>>> shorter torso and longer legs, so I'm naturally going to have less weight 
>>> on the front wheel, especially with a long front-center.
>>>
>>> I didn't mean to go so far as to say that the Susie (sorry for the 
>>> misspelling earlier) was designed to make you get off and walk, but with 
>>> Grant's philosophy, I just think it's unlikely he's designed the bike to 
>>> "conquer the terrain". 
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 6:06:18 PM UTC-5 Mark Roland wrote:
>>>
 I guess I am either blessed or cursed with less sensitivity in these 
 matters.  I tend to ride the same roads and trails 80 percent (or more) of 
 the time, and over the years I've ridden them with lots of different bikes 
 with lots of different geometries and setups.  I'm not sure exactly  what 
 handling characteristic is under discussion, but on my normal single track 
 trails, I don't notice a lack of bite from the front tire of the Susie. 
 The 
 Klunker bar does not overly entice one into aggressive riding, but I'll 
 dive into a dirt turn at speed now and then, no problem. When going up a 
 challenging hill, yup, the bike will wander a bit. In my experience, 
 whatever the bike, unless you are practically hammering out of the saddle, 
 you are going to experience some of that at 3-4mph on a sick dirt and rock 
 grade.

 The Susie per se is not designed to make you walk. If I were going to 
 be going out into  the landscape aggressively, I could easily choose bars 
 that would get me level with the saddle on my Large. If I wanted more 
 aggression, I could put them on my Medium Clem L. I'm not sure it is 
 terribly helpful to compare the Hillibike geometries to current offerings 
 from the big boys.They share much more of a bloodline with my 1984 Trek 
 830, able to traverse hill and dale, rock and road, with equal aplomb, but 
 with the ability to also get more comfortable via high head tube and 
 longer 
 chainstays and small refinements in the geometry. And bigger wheels.

 On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 2:35:50 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:

> On Tuesday, February 2, 2021 at 12:28:41 PM UTC-7 Christopher Cote 
> wrote:
>
>> I haven't ridden a Gus or Suzie, but I have had a similar experience 
>> on more conventional MTBs. If I set the bars up high and back for 
>> ultimate 
>> comfort, there's not enough weight on the front tire to "bite" into the 
>> terrain, and handling suffers, IMO. If you're just tootling along, the 
>> sit 
>> up and beg position is fine, but if you're interested in riding 
>> technical 
>> trails or in an aggressive manner, you need a more aggressive position. 
>> Given Grant's philosophy that riders should get off and walk more, I 
>> think 
>> that is reflected in 

Re: [RBW] Re: Play & Slipping with Silver Bar End Shifters

[Den John]

Thanks, the beeswax is an interesting idea. I'll give that a try. (BTW, any
idea if beeswax is a good substitute for anti-seize? I have had a tube of
Shimano anti-seize that's lasted
me about 6 years but it's starting to run out).

I'll also see if any of my other shifters have metal washers. I think I
have some bits of Campagnolo stuff that might do.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 at 23:13, John P. in SF  wrote:

> HI
>
> I have had maybe 6 pairs of silvers over the years and not all of them
> slipped, used both as bar end and as dt shifters.
>
> I have solved some of my silver shifter slipping problems by placing a
> thin slice of beeswax in between all the various parts and reassembling. I
> have only had problems with right hand shifters slipping - not sure why,
> and I never thought of swapping the left to right or vice versa. The
> beeswax seems to work for a year or two and then needs refreshing.
>
> I have also used a metal outer washer from a different shifter instead of
> the plastic jobby, and on one stubbornly slipping shifter (gifted to the
> girlfriend, fool that I am) I swapped out the d-ring bold for a regular m5
> bolt so I could torque it down enough to stop the slippage. Then she took
> it to a shop for some maintenance and they took the m5 out and put in a
> d-ring bolt and the shifter started slipping again...she was not happy.
>
> Not all silver shifters slip, but some do and it can be frustrating.
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 1:29:59 AM UTC-8 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello RBWers,
>>
>> I've been having problems with a set of older type RBW Silver bar end
>> shifters.
>> There seems to be a lot of play in the shifters. They've been like this
>> out of the box.
>> They also slip a  bit in the middle sprockets, ghost shifting from the
>> bigger to smaller
>> sprocket. Tightening the bolt that holds the shifter lever doesn't make
>> much difference,
>> even with the bolt done up pretty tight the play and slipping seem to
>> persist.
>>
>> It seems this is a bit of a known problem with these shifters. Does
>> anyone have any suggestions for a remedy for this? E.g. is it possible to
>> add an additional washer somewhere?
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>>
>> Johnny in Belgium
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Play & Slipping with Silver Bar End Shifters

[Den John]

I didn't swap the levers from one side to the other. There's no reason not
to try it I suppose, just never got round to it.

In any case, both levers, left and right, seem to have a lot of lateral
play in them. Like about a mm or more at the pod where the lever bolts on.
I have tightened the D rings about as far as possible by hand. There is
still a slighly loose fore-aft feeling in the lever before the ratchet
clicks when I want to shift,
but it's not like a friction shifter that's not been tightened enough -
nothing is actually slipping.

I have a couple of sets of old suntour bar ends, both the first generation
ones and the later barcons with 7 speed indexing on the RD side and
ratcheting on the FD side.
Neither of those shifters have any play in and I've never had any problems
with them slipping.

Thanks again for any suggestions.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 at 17:56, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> OK, it came from a shop, not from Rivendell, but we're assuming that it is
> stuff that's supposed to work together.  That's good
>
> There is no particular Left vs Right.  Either one can serve either role.
>  It's just a matter of whether you want the D-rings on the outside or the
> inside.  Since you've swapped things around liberally, can I assume you've
> already swapped the shifters?  Did they both do equally badly when used for
> the rear der?
>
> Next, please describe the "play".  What does this mean?  Do you mean you
> can wiggle the shifter side to side?  Do you mean you can wiggle the
> shifter in it's normal travel direction and it moves a bit before the cable
> starts moving?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 8:05:44 AM UTC-8 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have a complete set. It's the right hand shifter that's causing the
>> problem. 9 speed. I have a double chainring on the front with a granny gear
>> and a 36t big ring. This is setup to avoid shifting the front derailleur
>> too often, so I don't use the left hand shifter enough to say if it's got a
>> major problem. I tried a few different derailleurs, mostly variants of
>> Shimano Deore, but the slipping/ghost shifting persisted.
>>
>> The setup is a full Rivendell branded barend shifter set. No cobbling
>> together. I ordered it as a Dia Compe barend shifter set, and the shop I
>> bought it from sent me the Riv set.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Johnny
>>
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 at 16:27, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> OK one step at a time
>>>
>>> 1. Do you have one Silver Bar end shifter or two?  Do both have a
>>> problem or only one?
>>> 2. Did you buy these Silver Bar end shifters complete from Rivendell
>>> Bicycle Works as bar end shifters?  Or did you or somebody else cobble
>>> together Silver Downtube shifters onto Shimano, or somebody elses bar end
>>> pods?
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 1:29:59 AM UTC-8 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hello RBWers,

 I've been having problems with a set of older type RBW Silver bar end
 shifters.
 There seems to be a lot of play in the shifters. They've been like this
 out of the box.
 They also slip a  bit in the middle sprockets, ghost shifting from the
 bigger to smaller
 sprocket. Tightening the bolt that holds the shifter lever doesn't make
 much difference,
 even with the bolt done up pretty tight the play and slipping seem to
 persist.

 It seems this is a bit of a known problem with these shifters. Does
 anyone have any suggestions for a remedy for this? E.g. is it possible to
 add an additional washer somewhere?

 Thanks for any help,

 Johnny in Belgium

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Re: [RBW] Re: Play & Slipping with Silver Bar End Shifters

[Den John]

I have a complete set. It's the right hand shifter that's causing the
problem. 9 speed. I have a double chainring on the front with a granny gear
and a 36t big ring. This is setup to avoid shifting the front derailleur
too often, so I don't use the left hand shifter enough to say if it's got a
major problem. I tried a few different derailleurs, mostly variants of
Shimano Deore, but the slipping/ghost shifting persisted.

The setup is a full Rivendell branded barend shifter set. No cobbling
together. I ordered it as a Dia Compe barend shifter set, and the shop I
bought it from sent me the Riv set.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Mon, 1 Feb 2021 at 16:27, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> OK one step at a time
>
> 1. Do you have one Silver Bar end shifter or two?  Do both have a problem
> or only one?
> 2. Did you buy these Silver Bar end shifters complete from Rivendell
> Bicycle Works as bar end shifters?  Or did you or somebody else cobble
> together Silver Downtube shifters onto Shimano, or somebody elses bar end
> pods?
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, February 1, 2021 at 1:29:59 AM UTC-8 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello RBWers,
>>
>> I've been having problems with a set of older type RBW Silver bar end
>> shifters.
>> There seems to be a lot of play in the shifters. They've been like this
>> out of the box.
>> They also slip a  bit in the middle sprockets, ghost shifting from the
>> bigger to smaller
>> sprocket. Tightening the bolt that holds the shifter lever doesn't make
>> much difference,
>> even with the bolt done up pretty tight the play and slipping seem to
>> persist.
>>
>> It seems this is a bit of a known problem with these shifters. Does
>> anyone have any suggestions for a remedy for this? E.g. is it possible to
>> add an additional washer somewhere?
>>
>> Thanks for any help,
>>
>> Johnny in Belgium
>>
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[RBW] Play & Slipping with Silver Bar End Shifters

[Den John]

Hello RBWers,

I've been having problems with a set of older type RBW Silver bar end 
shifters. 
There seems to be a lot of play in the shifters. They've been like this out 
of the box.
They also slip a  bit in the middle sprockets, ghost shifting from the 
bigger to smaller
sprocket. Tightening the bolt that holds the shifter lever doesn't make 
much difference,
even with the bolt done up pretty tight the play and slipping seem to 
persist. 

It seems this is a bit of a known problem with these shifters. Does anyone 
have any suggestions for a remedy for this? E.g. is it possible to add an 
additional washer somewhere?

Thanks for any help,

Johnny in Belgium

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Re: [RBW] Re: B65 fenders in 650B?

[Den John]

Thanks, Tom. Planet Bike looks like a great initiative. TBH if I can't find
the SKS in the right size, I'll probably cough up for some 650B Gilles
Berthoud inox fenders.
I have a 26" set and they are very nice and also very effective.

Cheers,
Johnny

On Sun, 17 Jan 2021 at 10:48, Tom Palmer  wrote:

> Hi Johnny,
> Not SKS and not sure available in Belgium, but the Planet Bike Alux have a
> wide fender in 650B.  I used them over 584x54 Thunderburts. I like them
> very much. Solid and quiet.
> Hope you find a solution.
> Tom Palmer
> Twin Lake, MI USA
>
> On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 3:06:59 PM UTC-5 john...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Does anyone know if the SKS B65 fender is (or ever was) available in 650B
>> size?
>> Or do people just use the 28" version?
>>
>> (the SKS B65 is the fender that Rivendell recommend for tyres around 55mm)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Johnny in Belgium
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: B65 fenders in 650B?

[Den John]

OK, thanks!

Johnny

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 at 21:31, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I've only ever seen that model in the nominal 700c size, which Riv lists
> as for 700 or 650. I have an old set of SKS that came on a Bombadil 650b
> and fit great, I'm pretty sure they're the model you're looking at.
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 12:06:59 PM UTC-8 john...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Does anyone know if the SKS B65 fender is (or ever was) available in 650B
>> size?
>> Or do people just use the 28" version?
>>
>> (the SKS B65 is the fender that Rivendell recommend for tyres around 55mm)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Johnny in Belgium
>>
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[RBW] B65 fenders in 650B?

[Den John]

Hello,

Does anyone know if the SKS B65 fender is (or ever was) available in 650B 
size?
Or do people just use the 28" version?

(the SKS B65 is the fender that Rivendell recommend for tyres around 55mm)

Thanks,

Johnny in Belgium

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Re: [RBW] Re: Tell me about your super-wide drops

[Den John]

The difference between ultra-wide drops and wide MTB bars is that wide MTB
bars have been mainstream for a while now. Pretty much every MTB I see
these days has
very wide bars. Shops sell them and are able to help with setup. Other
riders can also advise. Here in the EU at least, ultra wide drops are still
a bit niche. You need to go online
to get them, and to get advice on them. I am the only person near me who
rides with them, and my MTB friends think I'm weird. So I had to do my own
experiments with setup and ergonomics, and I can't really be sure I'm
getting things right, apart from the feedback my arms, back and wrists give
me. I'm glad I didn't give up on wide drops after some initial weirdness,
but it took some patience to find the right ones. YMMV.

As for alt-bars, a lot of those seem very similar to older designs like the
German stuttgarter or French Toulouse bar that people have been riding for
decades, so they are not entirely new territory.

The main benefits I've found to wide drops for off road are, first, mud: I
seem to get less bogged down in muddy sections with wider drops, and,
second, steeper, fairly technical climbs. Riding a steep climb in the drops
gives me a more confident grip than either flat bars or barends, and more
leverage than narrower drops. I'm not exactly a 'gnarly' rider by an
stretch of the imagination. I have no idea if wide drops would be a good
idea for drop-offs or other more extreme riding.

On Wed, 6 Jan 2021 at 19:30, Ben Miller  wrote:

> I like Collins point with one correction: "The main point I think is that
> *handlebars* are kinda like saddles."
>
> As a person who loves drop bars but has always hated how narrow they are,
> I love the recent developments. I own the Crust Towelrack (v2 - Full size
> at 670 mm) and the Crust x Nitto Shaka bar (520 mm). Wide drop bars are
> great for really maximizing different hand positions (so many!) This is my
> main reason for liking them. I heartily disagree with anyone who questions
> their ergonomics, even a little. The Nitto Mustache is 515 mm, the
> Rivendell Albastache is 555 mm, and the Riv Billie 580 mm, and the
> Bullmoose 670 mm! And modern MTB bars are even larger. No one complains
> about those being based upon "ergonomics that haven't been tested
> properly."
>
> Personally, I have never liked alt-bars (Albatross, Bullmoose, etc),
> though I love the look of them. But that is me! If you want a wide bar and
> like not having drops, get some alts. If you want a narrow bar and drops
> you're all set. And now, if you've been jonesing for a wide bar with drops,
> you're time has come! I don't think there is much mystery to it. Yes you
> can fit a larger bag, but too me that shouldn't be a reason to get
> handlebars (though it is a nice benefit to wide bars). I'm also middling
> about the off-road aspect. I've never felt like 440 mm noddles provided too
> little leverage for a bumpy trail, but maybe I'm not shredding the gnar
> hard enough??
>
> A couple of final thoughts: I think the Shaka bar strikes pretty much the
> prefect balance for me, so much so I bought another pair just the other day
> when Crust came back online. The Towelrack, although still really *really*
> good, have a few drawbacks to me compared to the Shaka:
> Aerodynamics - yeah, yeah, I'm not overly concerns with *Aero* or
> anything, but you do pay a bit of penalty here, coasting down a descent in
> which your buddies speed past you without pedaling is just something that
> is going to happen compared to normal drops, even the Shakas (which I don't
> notice this with). Now compared to Alts, it's probably better, so if your
> decision is between the two, it's maybe a no-brainer, but something to
> consider otherwise (Basically I don't want to put them on a pure road bike)
> Clearance - They are *wide; *be prepared to have to think a lot more
> about navigating some situations. On the open road this isn't a problem,
> but tight singletrack or urban bike infrastructure can suddenly become a
> bit more challenging. I think this may be more of challenge with wide drops
> compared to alt or MTB bars due to your hands being a bit more exposed due
> to the positioning, even though they are just as wide. Or, i dunno, maybe
> my bike handling skills are junk and I got away with narrow bars? Again I
> don't have this issue with the Shakas as much
> Different pressure points - Not really a big deal, but do be prepared to
> get callous in different spots. I notice that using Towelrack tends to give
> me callouses inbetween my thumb and forefinger, whereas with normal drops I
> get them more on the base forefinger and middle finger.
>
> In short, handlebars are very much a personal preference and wide dropbars
> aren't any different; they are *not* a panacea but I also don't think
> they are just a "trend." They are probably best for folks you like a lot of
> width for different hand positions and also want to maximum their reach on
> their bike compared to 

[RBW] Re: Tell me about your super-wide drops

[Den John]

Good question :-)

I went pretty mental for wide drops over the last couple of years. My habit 
started with a set of Funn G-Wides a couple of years ago. 500mm wide, 620mm 
at the drops. That's as wide as
the bars on some of my older mtbs. I have them on an old 26er MTB.

Based on those, I also put wider bars on my cyclocross bike (Ergotec 
Randonneurs). Not as wide as the Funn G Wide, but still give a bit more 
control.

I also bought a set of Crust Towel Racks, 615mm at the drops, but they only 
arrived recently and I haven't ridden them much. The certainly feel big - 
quite a deep drop.

Finally, I have recently bought a set of Curve Walmer bars for a 27,5+ MTB. 
I bought the widest Walmer bars, 750mm at the drops. I set them really high 
so the drops are the main position. Can't even really ride the flats at 
all. I like them a lot, although it took a bit of tweaking to get the wrist 
position right. I found that for me, angling the drop up a bit helps. They 
give a lot of leverage in technical and muddy terrain and when climbing. I 
like descending in the drops more than on flat MTB bars anyway, and being 
able to do s with extra wide bars feels even better. Main problem is that 
there aren't many bikes actually designed for these bars. I have a LD stem 
plus 80mm of spacers which looks a bit wacky TBH. The LD is also very short 
- 40mm extension. But it all works so far based on about 1000km riding. I 
don't have any back problems at all with these bars so far. Even the Funn 
bars feel a bit wimpy and narrow after riding the Walmers for a while. 
However, the Walmers have a much smaller drop and reach. I think Curve 
realised that just widening a normal bar is not a good idea. You need to 
shrink the drop and reach to balance the extra width.

Main benefit of wide bars is more control and leverage, plus being able to 
carry a bigger bar bag, and room for accessories on the bars. Disadvantage 
is that the drops position is not comfortable for long periods unless you 
can get the bars up high enough. So you need a bike with a really high 
stack. Some claim that wide bars make it easier to breathe but I can't say 
I've noticed this.

The other issue is that this whole trend is based on some rather esoteric 
ideas about ergonomics that haven't been tested properly AFAIK. So it might 
be that these bars cause some unforeseen problems in the long run. I've not 
read anything on ultra wide drops by anyone who really knows about 
ergonomics.

I think eventually we will find a sweet spot where drops become wide enough 
to be useful to people riding off road or for loaded touring, but not so 
wide that they might cause back or wrist problems. But I don't think we're 
there yet. If you do have back or wrist problems, be especially aware when 
setting up wide drops. 

Finally, I previously tried some Nitto Dirt Drops and some One One Midges 
and couldn't get on with them at all. The Nittos caused instant and quite 
severe upper back pain, no matter how high I set them, and I did try to set 
them very high. The Midges caused lower back pain. Maybe something to do 
with the extreme flare and/or the way the drops are angled on those bars. 

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium

On Wednesday, 6 January 2021 at 13:34:50 UTC+1 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Big, wide drops seem to be everywhere these days, even here in the group! 
> I've noticed some for sale and others used in builds. Rather than read 
> through another dull review in some unfamiliar corner of the internet I 
> wanted to see if anyone in the group could share some firsthand experience. 
> How does it feel running those > 50cm drop bars?

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Re: [RBW] Stack & Reach for Joe Appaloosa & Atlantis

[Den John]

Ah, I was wonndering about that. Any idea how long those extensions
generally are? I'm wondering if I can get away without a riser stem.

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 03:13, Dave Johnston  wrote:

> I have found bikeinsights to be wrong on both Stack and Reach for
> Rivendell bikes. They don't take into account the head-tube extension built
> into Riv's lugs.
>
> -Dave J
> On Friday, December 18, 2020 at 8:53:13 PM UTC-5 Matthew Williams wrote:
>
>> Whoops, sorry about that! Here are the frames you selected:
>> White outline: 57 Appaloosa (2020)
>> Black outline: 55 Atlantis (2019)
>>
>>
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e308654dcfe4e001737cc7d%2C5e1faf637f17da00170c6e27
>> <https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e308654dcfe4e001737cc7d,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e27>
>>
>> Welcome to the list, Johnny!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 18, 2020, at 3:16 PM, Den John  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Matthew, that is incredibly helpful.
>>
>> Johnny
>>
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 23:52, Matthew Williams 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Johnny,
>>>
>>> Here's a site for comparing frames:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5b8578f548f3a30004789b07,5ad1288a9127aa0014fa1d9c=,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 3:55 AM, Den John  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> My name is Johnny. I live in Belgium and I'm Riv Curious. I post from
>>> time to time on the iBOB group.
>>>
>>> I've been obsessed with the idea of owning a Riv for a while. I'm
>>> particularly interested in the Atlantis and Appaloosa.
>>>
>>> Could anyone tell me the stack & reach numbers for a 55cm Atlantis and a
>>> 57cm Appaloosa (current models)? Riv doesn't list S on their geometry
>>> chart.
>>>
>>> An image of the measurements I need is attached.
>>>
>>> I'd like to use wide drop bars, so stack & reach are quite important to
>>> know.
>>>
>>> If anyone has any comments on the current long chainstay versions of
>>> these bikes, I'd also be interested to hear. This seems to be the most
>>> distinctive aspect, and the only way to get something like this in the EU
>>> would be to go custom. I do have a bakfiets,
>>> and the long wheelbase on that makes for a very nice ride.
>>>
>>> I suppose now is not really the best time to think about importing a
>>> bike from the US to Europe, but never mind :-)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Johnny in Belgium
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6f693ac-a815-4ff9-9016-b9147686bcc0n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6f693ac-a815-4ff9-9016-b9147686bcc0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2B%3D4xcyK-ZhZXUAs%3DV_v6e90_gBUKareig8pgZPKTuqC51hOaQ%40mail.gmail

Re: [RBW] Stack & Reach for Joe Appaloosa & Atlantis

[Den John]

No worries, I already spent a good few hours fiddling with the various
models and options on there :-)

On Sat, 19 Dec 2020 at 02:53, Matthew Williams <
matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Whoops, sorry about that! Here are the frames you selected:
> White outline: 57 Appaloosa (2020)
> Black outline: 55 Atlantis (2019)
>
>
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e308654dcfe4e001737cc7d%2C5e1faf637f17da00170c6e27
> <https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5e308654dcfe4e001737cc7d,5e1faf637f17da00170c6e27>
>
> Welcome to the list, Johnny!
>
>
>
> On Dec 18, 2020, at 3:16 PM, Den John  wrote:
>
> Thanks Matthew, that is incredibly helpful.
>
> Johnny
>
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 23:52, Matthew Williams <
> matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Johnny,
>>
>> Here's a site for comparing frames:
>>
>>
>> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5b8578f548f3a30004789b07,5ad1288a9127aa0014fa1d9c=,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2020, at 3:55 AM, Den John  wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> My name is Johnny. I live in Belgium and I'm Riv Curious. I post from
>> time to time on the iBOB group.
>>
>> I've been obsessed with the idea of owning a Riv for a while. I'm
>> particularly interested in the Atlantis and Appaloosa.
>>
>> Could anyone tell me the stack & reach numbers for a 55cm Atlantis and a
>> 57cm Appaloosa (current models)? Riv doesn't list S on their geometry
>> chart.
>>
>> An image of the measurements I need is attached.
>>
>> I'd like to use wide drop bars, so stack & reach are quite important to
>> know.
>>
>> If anyone has any comments on the current long chainstay versions of
>> these bikes, I'd also be interested to hear. This seems to be the most
>> distinctive aspect, and the only way to get something like this in the EU
>> would be to go custom. I do have a bakfiets,
>> and the long wheelbase on that makes for a very nice ride.
>>
>> I suppose now is not really the best time to think about importing a bike
>> from the US to Europe, but never mind :-)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Johnny in Belgium
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6f693ac-a815-4ff9-9016-b9147686bcc0n%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6f693ac-a815-4ff9-9016-b9147686bcc0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/P1_vlPm2CNc/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/448E7B03-9DC4-41A5-8DF0-712D65E4EBDD%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>
> --
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2B%3D4xcyK-ZhZXUAs%3DV_v6e90_gBUKareig8pgZPKTuqC51hOaQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
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>
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Stack & Reach for Joe Appaloosa & Atlantis

[Den John]

Thanks Matthew, that is incredibly helpful.

Johnny

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 23:52, Matthew Williams <
matthewwilliamsdes...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Johnny,
>
> Here's a site for comparing frames:
>
>
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5b8578f548f3a30004789b07,5ad1288a9127aa0014fa1d9c=,
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 17, 2020, at 3:55 AM, Den John  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> My name is Johnny. I live in Belgium and I'm Riv Curious. I post from time
> to time on the iBOB group.
>
> I've been obsessed with the idea of owning a Riv for a while. I'm
> particularly interested in the Atlantis and Appaloosa.
>
> Could anyone tell me the stack & reach numbers for a 55cm Atlantis and a
> 57cm Appaloosa (current models)? Riv doesn't list S on their geometry
> chart.
>
> An image of the measurements I need is attached.
>
> I'd like to use wide drop bars, so stack & reach are quite important to
> know.
>
> If anyone has any comments on the current long chainstay versions of these
> bikes, I'd also be interested to hear. This seems to be the most
> distinctive aspect, and the only way to get something like this in the EU
> would be to go custom. I do have a bakfiets,
> and the long wheelbase on that makes for a very nice ride.
>
> I suppose now is not really the best time to think about importing a bike
> from the US to Europe, but never mind :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Johnny in Belgium
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6f693ac-a815-4ff9-9016-b9147686bcc0n%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f6f693ac-a815-4ff9-9016-b9147686bcc0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
> .
> 
>
>
> --
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> .
>

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[RBW] Stack & Reach for Joe Appaloosa & Atlantis

[Den John]

Hello,

My name is Johnny. I live in Belgium and I'm Riv Curious. I post from time 
to time on the iBOB group.

I've been obsessed with the idea of owning a Riv for a while. I'm 
particularly interested in the Atlantis and Appaloosa. 

Could anyone tell me the stack & reach numbers for a 55cm Atlantis and a 
57cm Appaloosa (current models)? Riv doesn't list S on their geometry 
chart.

An image of the measurements I need is attached.

I'd like to use wide drop bars, so stack & reach are quite important to 
know.

If anyone has any comments on the current long chainstay versions of these 
bikes, I'd also be interested to hear. This seems to be the most 
distinctive aspect, and the only way to get something like this in the EU 
would be to go custom. I do have a bakfiets,
and the long wheelbase on that makes for a very nice ride.

I suppose now is not really the best time to think about importing a bike 
from the US to Europe, but never mind :-)

Thanks,
Johnny in Belgium

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