Re: [RBW] Re: Eric M.'s new video: Shop tour, favorite workshops, tool organization and my next bicycle build

[george schick]

Eric - an excellent filming of your workshop and exterior plantings.  What 
a nice place to live and do your work.  I was reminded, though, of a 
similar but not quite as professional episode as this one from several 
years ago where you were doing a rebuild of a mixte that your "partner's" 
parents gave her - some Japanese manufacturer, I think.  I recognized that 
the scenes of your shop are the same as your current video, but it's a 
"different Eric Marth!"  Pop bottle glasses, dark hair, etc.  What happened?

On Friday, May 3, 2024 at 10:00:47 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks everyone for watchin'! 
>
> Marty: The Match Game was before my time but I certainly came up with Bob 
> Barker. The $20 corded mic I bought just didn't seem right clipped to my 
> shirt so I went for the long mic. 
>
> Patrick: I appreciate the kind notes. Sorry about the SW gardening woes, I 
> know nothing of gardening in that clime. I've had my own troubles here! I 
> was in a different house about 10 years ago and the garden was a lot of 
> work but it was abundant and without many difficulties. The soil and sun 
> are different in this spot and growing has taken a lot of trial and error. 
> I'm finally getting the hang of things. A groundhog just showed up on the 
> scene, I saw them (unsure if it's a male or female) heartily eating some 
> lettuce while sitting in the raised bed earlier this week! It's fenced off 
> but they found a way in. I have to admit it was kind of cute, holding a 
> huge piece of lettuce, but it still left me cursing. I'm glad you like the 
> tools!
>
> On Monday, April 29, 2024 at 3:12:05 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Oh, and I forwarded the video link to Jeremiah; he will appreciate it.
>>
>

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[RBW] FD shifters and why not friction

[George Schick]

I recently finished rehabbing a '95 Schwinn "Ridge Searcher" that was in 
very neglected condition.  It was given to a lady who has little or no 
money by someone who had "stored the bike away in the basement" for many 
years without any maintenance.  Bad a shape as it was in - and it was 
pretty darn bad - I only had to replace two major components, the BB and 
the chain.  Having cleaned everything up (which included two hours in an 
ultrasonic tank to get the cassette knocked loose of all the built up grime 
and lots and lots of elbow grease on other parts) I finally began to 
reassemble everything last week.  And although the cleaned and lubed RD 
worked just fine, I had a devil of a time getting the FD to work properly 
over the three chainrings.

And, of course, this was one of those bikes with upright bars and those  
accursed "twist lock" shifters.  The RD shifter on the right side of the 
bar worked OK with little adjustment necessary of the RD.  But the FD was a 
nightmare which included multiple tightenings of the shift cable, 
penetrating lube on the FD pivoting points, etc. in order to get it dialed 
in properly.  And, also of course, it too was a three-position twist lock 
shifter on the left side of the bar.

The main reason I'm bringing this rant to this forum is to agree with 
Grant's recent Blahg about the over-the-top work that some bike manf's are 
doing with something along the lines of AI in order to insure that the FD 
gets positioned properly in relationship with the cassette cog in which the 
rear is positioned.  Grant's premise is that nothing could be simpler than 
shifting the FD back and forth and manually "trimming" it to accommodate 
whatever gear the rear happens to be in at the moment.  I couldn't agree 
more.  This "twist shift" business is bad enough in some respects for the 
RD, but couldn't be more of a of a disaster for the FD.  Why bring about 
yet another costly intervention that would be completely unnecessary if 
riders would just take the time to learn how to "feel an adjustment" into 
place instead of relying on some next generation gadget to do their work 
for them!  Could be DT shifters, barcons, stem shifters - doesn't matter as 
long as they require a bit of manual adjustment on the part of the rider.

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Well, I'm currently working on a major rehab and overhaul of a '95 Schwinn 
Ridge Searcher for a lady that she somehow got for free.  It's in a pretty 
decrepit condition, but hey, I have plenty of time to engage in such 
volunteer activities and when it's done she'll be riding a bike the likes 
of which she's never had before.  If the location of that Rom was not so 
distant (and of course, some doubts about frame size) I'd recommend 
snagging it...maybe after haggling down to a lower price...and I'd be 
willing to undertake a similar task.  Kazoo is just on the other side of 
the lake plus a bit more from me.

On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 2:37:07 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Yes, George, exactly. I was excited that such a nice frame was available 
> but with the size being iffy, the whole bar/brake lever/cables/housing and 
> the tires needing a swap I just didn’t feel confident this was the answer.
>
> On Apr 24, 2024, at 3:32 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> Heh.  After all of this back and forth discussion about drop bars and the 
> various hand positions, it turns out to be set up much the same way as the 
> bikes she already has with an upright riding position and regular bars.  
> 'Course, this bike "could" be reconverted to a standard road bike without 
> too much difficulty.  And it is, after all, a Romulus which a darn decent 
> bike frame in the first place...*but* it's in Nashville which would 
> require some disassembly to ship anyplace outside the central Tennessee 
> area.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 1:34:38 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I’m gonna pass on the Romulus, Piaw. But here’s the link if your wife is 
>> interested. 
>> [image: 434880613_728297446179557_7619796582322956859_n.jpg]
>>
>> Rivendell Romulus Bicycle 55cm 
>> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/>
>> facebook.com 
>> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Leah
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> The Romulus had a different geometry with a much misleading frame sizing. 
>> Here's the geometry: 
>> https://notfine.com/rivreader/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Romulus.pdf
>>
>> Looks like if you were 5' 10", that'll put you onto a 59cm Romulus. 
>> Unusual compared to today's Roadini sizing, but the Romulus also has a 
>> lower BB. I would buy it. If Leah doesn't want it let me know and I'd 
>> consider it for my wife who still wants a Roadini.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 12:52 PM Mathias Steiner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> >> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT? 
>>>
>>> We think that you need to find a geometry chart for the Romulus.
>>>
>>> The older AHH and Roadeo charts show 80.9 and 80.6 cm standover 
>>> clearance, respectively, for the 55 cm size.
>>> That's awfully close to your stated PBH of 81 cm.
>>>
>>> cheers -mathias
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sounds great, right in and around your PBH and SOH.  'Course, that all 
>>>> depends upon what kind of shape it's in, where it has to come from 
>>>> (shipped 
>>>> or local) therefore sight seen or unseen, etc. I'd say give it a shot - 
>>>> there aren't many of those Romulus models around and they're almost 
>>>> collectables.  Got a trustworthy LBS now that you can depend upon to give 
>>>> it a good going over and therefore a professional evaluation?
>>>>
>>>> Best winds!
>>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
>>>>> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
>>>>> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
>>>>> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
>>>>> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
>>>>> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
>>>>> this

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Heh.  After all of this back and forth discussion about drop bars and the 
various hand positions, it turns out to be set up much the same way as the 
bikes she already has with an upright riding position and regular bars.  
'Course, this bike "could" be reconverted to a standard road bike without 
too much difficulty.  And it is, after all, a Romulus which a darn decent 
bike frame in the first place...*but* it's in Nashville which would require 
some disassembly to ship anyplace outside the central Tennessee area.

On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 1:34:38 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’m gonna pass on the Romulus, Piaw. But here’s the link if your wife is 
> interested. 
> [image: 434880613_728297446179557_7619796582322956859_n.jpg]
>
> Rivendell Romulus Bicycle 55cm 
> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/>
> facebook.com <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1036883344709795/>
>
>
> Best,
> Leah
>
> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:55 PM, Piaw Na  wrote:
>
> 
> The Romulus had a different geometry with a much misleading frame sizing. 
> Here's the geometry: 
> https://notfine.com/rivreader/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Romulus.pdf
>
> Looks like if you were 5' 10", that'll put you onto a 59cm Romulus. 
> Unusual compared to today's Roadini sizing, but the Romulus also has a 
> lower BB. I would buy it. If Leah doesn't want it let me know and I'd 
> consider it for my wife who still wants a Roadini.
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 12:52 PM Mathias Steiner  
> wrote:
>
>> >> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT? 
>>
>> We think that you need to find a geometry chart for the Romulus.
>>
>> The older AHH and Roadeo charts show 80.9 and 80.6 cm standover 
>> clearance, respectively, for the 55 cm size.
>> That's awfully close to your stated PBH of 81 cm.
>>
>> cheers -mathias
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds great, right in and around your PBH and SOH.  'Course, that all 
>>> depends upon what kind of shape it's in, where it has to come from (shipped 
>>> or local) therefore sight seen or unseen, etc. I'd say give it a shot - 
>>> there aren't many of those Romulus models around and they're almost 
>>> collectables.  Got a trustworthy LBS now that you can depend upon to give 
>>> it a good going over and therefore a professional evaluation?
>>>
>>> Best winds!
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
>>>> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
>>>> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
>>>> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
>>>> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
>>>> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
>>>> this way as well.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>> Austin, TX burbs
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
>>>>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
>>>>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
>>>>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
>>>>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
>>>>> ideal. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
>>>>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know 
>>>>> what 
>>>>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have 
>>>>> before. 
>>>>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
>>>>> take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Agreed.  I own a 54cm Ram and it's equipped with fenders.  The max tire 
that works in this set up is a 32mm.  But without fenders one might be able 
to get 35mm or more on the wheels, but I still don't recommend it for a 
"road bike".  While wider tires may be a good thing for general riding 
purposes they would not work out as well as smaller diameter tires for road 
riding and for what she'll probably soon be using it for like or not, club 
rides where she will be burning up the pavement with it.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:33:25 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> The Romulus was essentially just the Rambouillet and I fit Kojaks on it. 
> Those are stated to be 35 but I think they were actually more like 36. With 
> that in mind it worked but I am not sure I would have been able to or 
> wanted to go to 38's. It was probably possible though.
>
> Interesting that in reviewing some of those pages Grant said that the AHH 
> and Rambouillet are the same with the only exception being that the AHH 
> takes larger tires. I'm not sure I ever knew that before. I thought the AHH 
> was the same as the Saluki with only the 650B vs 700C tires being the 
> difference at the beginning.
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 4:26:17 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>
>> Yep, according to that Riv chart, up to 38mm.  But I don't recommend 
>> going there because they will increase your SOH.  And you don't really need 
>> any tires of that size anyway if you have a road bike that you're going to 
>> be riding on paved roads - 32mm or so would be good enough.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:13:08 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> …which would give me room for that larger tire!
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 4:09 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hmm... according to a geometry chart for the Romulus 
>>> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus/romflyer/04.html a 55cm Rom should 
>>> have a "typical  PBH" of between 79-80 and a 57cm for those with PBH's of 
>>> 81-83.  So...disagreeing as I do with Grant about "going larger is better" 
>>> on frame size, I'd say that this bike would be perfect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:55:13 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Romulus had a different geometry with a much misleading frame 
>>>> sizing. Here's the geometry: 
>>>> https://notfine.com/rivreader/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Romulus.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Looks like if you were 5' 10", that'll put you onto a 59cm Romulus. 
>>>> Unusual compared to today's Roadini sizing, but the Romulus also has a 
>>>> lower BB. I would buy it. If Leah doesn't want it let me know and I'd 
>>>> consider it for my wife who still wants a Roadini.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 12:52 PM Mathias Steiner  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> >> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT? 
>>>>>
>>>>> We think that you need to find a geometry chart for the Romulus.
>>>>>
>>>>> The older AHH and Roadeo charts show 80.9 and 80.6 cm standover 
>>>>> clearance, respectively, for the 55 cm size.
>>>>> That's awfully close to your stated PBH of 81 cm.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers -mathias
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds great, right in and around your PBH and SOH.  'Course, that 
>>>>>> all depends upon what kind of shape it's in, where it has to come from 
>>>>>> (shipped or local) therefore sight seen or unseen, etc. I'd say give it 
>>>>>> a 
>>>>>> shot - there aren't many of those Romulus models around and they're 
>>>>>> almost 
>>>>>> collectables.  Got a trustworthy LBS now that you can depend upon to 
>>>>>> give 
>>>>>> it a good going over and therefore a professional evaluation?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best winds!
>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>>>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>
&g

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Yep, according to that Riv chart, up to 38mm.  But I don't recommend going 
there because they will increase your SOH.  And you don't really need any 
tires of that size anyway if you have a road bike that you're going to be 
riding on paved roads - 32mm or so would be good enough.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:13:08 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> …which would give me room for that larger tire!
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 23, 2024, at 4:09 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> Hmm... according to a geometry chart for the Romulus 
> http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus/romflyer/04.html a 55cm Rom should have 
> a "typical  PBH" of between 79-80 and a 57cm for those with PBH's of 
> 81-83.  So...disagreeing as I do with Grant about "going larger is better" 
> on frame size, I'd say that this bike would be perfect.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:55:13 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The Romulus had a different geometry with a much misleading frame sizing. 
>> Here's the geometry: 
>> https://notfine.com/rivreader/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Romulus.pdf
>>
>> Looks like if you were 5' 10", that'll put you onto a 59cm Romulus. 
>> Unusual compared to today's Roadini sizing, but the Romulus also has a 
>> lower BB. I would buy it. If Leah doesn't want it let me know and I'd 
>> consider it for my wife who still wants a Roadini.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 12:52 PM Mathias Steiner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> >> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT? 
>>>
>>> We think that you need to find a geometry chart for the Romulus.
>>>
>>> The older AHH and Roadeo charts show 80.9 and 80.6 cm standover 
>>> clearance, respectively, for the 55 cm size.
>>> That's awfully close to your stated PBH of 81 cm.
>>>
>>> cheers -mathias
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sounds great, right in and around your PBH and SOH.  'Course, that all 
>>>> depends upon what kind of shape it's in, where it has to come from 
>>>> (shipped 
>>>> or local) therefore sight seen or unseen, etc. I'd say give it a shot - 
>>>> there aren't many of those Romulus models around and they're almost 
>>>> collectables.  Got a trustworthy LBS now that you can depend upon to give 
>>>> it a good going over and therefore a professional evaluation?
>>>>
>>>> Best winds!
>>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
>>>>> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
>>>>> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
>>>>> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
>>>>> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
>>>>> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
>>>>> this way as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>> Austin, TX burbs
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
>>>>>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
>>>>>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
>>>>>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
>>>>>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
>>>>>> ideal. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
>>>>>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know 
>>>>>> what 
>>>>>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have 
>>>>>> before. 
>>>>>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note: I still like my raspberry Pl

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Hmm... according to a geometry chart for the 
Romulus http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus/romflyer/04.html a 55cm Rom 
should have a "typical  PBH" of between 79-80 and a 57cm for those with 
PBH's of 81-83.  So...disagreeing as I do with Grant about "going larger is 
better" on frame size, I'd say that this bike would be perfect.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:55:13 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The Romulus had a different geometry with a much misleading frame sizing. 
> Here's the geometry: 
> https://notfine.com/rivreader/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Romulus.pdf
>
> Looks like if you were 5' 10", that'll put you onto a 59cm Romulus. 
> Unusual compared to today's Roadini sizing, but the Romulus also has a 
> lower BB. I would buy it. If Leah doesn't want it let me know and I'd 
> consider it for my wife who still wants a Roadini.
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 12:52 PM Mathias Steiner  
> wrote:
>
>> >> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT? 
>>
>> We think that you need to find a geometry chart for the Romulus.
>>
>> The older AHH and Roadeo charts show 80.9 and 80.6 cm standover 
>> clearance, respectively, for the 55 cm size.
>> That's awfully close to your stated PBH of 81 cm.
>>
>> cheers -mathias
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 3:46:47 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds great, right in and around your PBH and SOH.  'Course, that all 
>>> depends upon what kind of shape it's in, where it has to come from (shipped 
>>> or local) therefore sight seen or unseen, etc. I'd say give it a shot - 
>>> there aren't many of those Romulus models around and they're almost 
>>> collectables.  Got a trustworthy LBS now that you can depend upon to give 
>>> it a good going over and therefore a professional evaluation?
>>>
>>> Best winds!
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>>
>>>> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
>>>> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
>>>> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
>>>> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
>>>> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
>>>> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
>>>> this way as well.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>> Austin, TX burbs
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
>>>>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
>>>>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
>>>>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
>>>>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
>>>>> ideal. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
>>>>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know 
>>>>> what 
>>>>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have 
>>>>> before. 
>>>>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
>>>>> take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach 
>>>>> stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out 
>>>>> of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart 
>>>>> rate 
>>>>> was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed 
>>>>> it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and 
>>>>> I’m 
>>>>> the youngest and probably the most fit. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Leah
>>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Sounds great, right in and around your PBH and SOH.  'Course, that all 
depends upon what kind of shape it's in, where it has to come from (shipped 
or local) therefore sight seen or unseen, etc. I'd say give it a shot - 
there aren't many of those Romulus models around and they're almost 
collectables.  Got a trustworthy LBS now that you can depend upon to give 
it a good going over and therefore a professional evaluation?

Best winds!
On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:33:00 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>
> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
> this way as well.
>
> Jim
> Austin, TX burbs
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
>> ideal. 
>>
>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what 
>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. 
>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>
>> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take 
>> a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach stem 
>> which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out of me. 
>> I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate was in 
>> the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed it was a 
>> hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m the 
>> youngest and probably the most fit. 
>>
>> Leah
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

When you "cut to the chase" many of us old farts on this blog started 
riding bikes in a serious way back in the early 70's.  And the go-to manual 
for bikers back then was Eugene Sloane's "The Complete Book of Bicycling."  
In that excellent instruction manual, as it were, he went to a great extent 
to appeal to the use of "drop bars" (or simply road bars by most folks back 
then) for road riders.  Of course, many different developments in cycling 
have taken place since then, especially the introduction of the so-called 
"hybrid bikes" with flat bars and the "mountain bikes," both of which 
introduced different types of handlebars, tire types, and saddles.  It's a 
bit of a lament that the regular "road bike" of the previous decades where 
"drop bars," saddle types, gearing, tires, etc. of the previous period more 
or less disappeared in the advent of those unique biking configurations.  
Almost every time I venture out on a bike path around these parts I mostly 
see people riding bikes configured with a "hybrid" set up...unless, of 
course they're riding  e-bikes, which are becoming way too commonplace 
nowadays.  I would encourage anyone who has an inclination to pick up and 
begin riding regular road bikes to do so.
On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 1:16:35 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> All of these replies are interesting. And when I read one I think, “Yes, 
> that’s right” and then read another which conflicts and change my mind. 
> This is going to be a journey. I can’t even believe how much there is to 
> know.
>
> I’m later getting here than the rest of you, I think. It was 2012 when I 
> first realized there were better bikes than the Walmart Schwinn I was 
> pulling my preschoolers around with. I got a Betty Foy with the biggest 
> racks and baskets money could buy and away we went. So happy! Still knowing 
> nothing! 
>
> Now those boys are in high school, and I live in a vibrant bike community 
> and suddenly it’s a whole new world for me. Every riding season I end up 
> learning and being stretched. I’m doing new kinds of rides, meeting lots of 
> people, volunteering on bike committees, and venturing a lot further from 
> home. 5 years ago I would never have believed I’d ride a metric century or 
> enjoy club riding. This is all wonderful, but I’m hamstrung by my lack of 
> experience. I always thought drop bars would have to be uncomfortable. It 
> wasn’t until this thread that I even considered trying them. Are they a 
> rite of passage? “Oh, you’ll never use them forever but just scratch the 
> itch now so you can say you have.” Or are they the gold standard “They’ve 
> been used for 100 years for good reason.” I worry I’m too late to start 
> using them after all this time on albatross and Billies. I have to look up 
> what “on the ramps” means. I don’t know what the “right” geometry is for a 
> road bike belonging to a devoted Rivendell rider would be. I dread being 
> uncomfortable. I fear screwing up with the new drop bars and crashing in a 
> peloton. I have no idea what shifters I’d put on drop bars. I thought 
> albastache might be a good compromise but heard they aren’t wrist-neutral 
> and then that they are. So.Much.To.Know. But everything I do now scares me, 
> so let’s go.
>
> Keep your replies coming! I read every one, even if I don’t respond, I am 
> definitely thinking about them and chatting with other RivSisters who have 
> similar questions.
>
> Thanks for taking the time!
> Leah
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 1:31:40 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>
>> Hi Leah -
>>
>> I would generally agree with what Ted said. Riding position and fit are 
>> very important. But I don't think that's the only criteria I would use. I 
>> have ten bikes. Five are Rivs. I have a Custom, Quickbeam, Roadeo, Ram and 
>> Hubbuhubbuh. I find that geometry is important in my riding. Some bikes can 
>> be more "twitchy" and/or less stable because of their geometry. Things like 
>> trail, head and seat tube angles and bottom bracket drop can affect the 
>> handling and stability of a bike. I don't get hung up on numbers, and judge 
>> the handling and stability based on how a bike rides.
>>
>> All of my Rivs are rock-solid stable and handle exceptionally well. I 
>> know that the low center of gravity, trail and angles contribute to this. 
>> Stability and handling are very important to me because I ride lots of 
>> hills. Going uphill depends on gears, fitness and leg strength. The 
>> stability and handling come into play going downhill. Rivs provide a level 
>> of confidence I don't get on other bikes. You can be sure the bike will go 
>> where you point it.
>>
>> About Albastache and Mustache bars - I have five bikes (some of them 
>> Rivs) with Mustache and Albastache bars. I find I can get every bit as low 
>> on Mustache and Albastache bars as on drop bars. The rest of my bikes have 
>> drop bars. The main thing I like about drop bars is riding the hoods. On 
>> drops, I find 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[george schick]

What Ted says, exactly. I began “serious” biking over 50 years ago on a 
road bike with drop bars and never looked back. That’s not to say that 
there isn’t merit to other kinds of bars and more upright riding positions, 
but the “drop” road bar offers those various hand positions. Once you adapt 
to them it’s hard to go back.


Ad 

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 2:23:39 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:12:20 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
> I am, right now, leaning toward a Gallup bike but will keep reading and 
> learning. And right now, I’m heading out to do Tabatas training. I had to 
> look it up. Promises to be the most miserable 4 minutes of my day.
>
> Wow, first we hear you are road bike curious, now you are doing tabata 
> workouts. Leah is going super hard core on us.
>
> My 2 cents worth ... "road bike", as opposed to what you currently ride 
> and love, is first and foremost about riding position. FWIW, my 
> recommendation is to skip past Albastache and Mustache and go straight to 
> drop bars. Start with them relatively high and close, so when your hands 
> are on the tops you feel like your back is relaxed and comfy. Bernard 
> Hinault, I think, said you should feel like you're playing piano on the 
> tops. You then have the curves on top, where your hands are a bit wider 
> apart and slightly forward, and your back should still be comfy. Then you 
> go forward to the brake hoods. Now you should feel like you're more forward 
> than you would be on your current bikes. But, if you're riding at a hard 
> enough effort (we're not talking super hard here), the force on the pedals 
> should be carrying enough of your weight that you're not having to hold 
> yourself up on your hands. Next you go below the brake hoods to the 
> farthest forward part of the drops. This is the speedy aero position. You 
> won't have a low, flat back here until you've lowered your stem/bars quite 
> a bit. But you should have a flat back and you should be putting a fair 
> amount of force into the pedals. Finally, there are the flat parts of the 
> drops, with your hands back a bit closer to you, which are a "cruising" 
> location for me (and right next to my bar end shifters), low enough to be 
> efficient but not fully stretched out. I've recently read comments from 
> "racers" that if you spend any amount of time down there your bars are too 
> high. Well, my bars are certainly too high by their standards, but mine are 
> set up for me to be comfortable in every spot. Very important: in EVERY 
> position you should not be gripping the bar or brake hood tightly, you 
> should have a very loose grip and not be bearing too much weight there. I 
> typically am very slightly pulling up on the brake hoods or drops to 
> counteract the pedaling force of the opposite leg. Also, you should ALWAYS 
> have at least a slight bend in your elbows in every position. If you are 
> locking your elbows something is wrong with the position and you're doing 
> bad things to your wrist and shoulders and neck.
>
> General rule of thumb for starting out, have the tops of the bars maybe an 
> inch above saddle height or, if you're already pretty flexible in the heaps 
> and low back, level with the saddle. Put the back of an elbow at the front 
> of the saddle and stretch your finger tips toward the handlebars. They 
> should just touch the back of the handlebars at the stem. Maybe a little 
> closer if you're tight, a little farther if you're flexible. Somebody 
> recommended Noodle bars, which I heartily endorse, as that's what I have on 
> most of my bikes. I like them because 1) the curves are generous 2) there's 
> a little rise in the top curve, making them very comfy in that area) and 3) 
> there's a fair amount of reach and drop, so you have a good range of 
> positions. That last part is key for me on long rides. Sometimes I'm riding 
> hard and need the long and low positions. Sometimes I'm taking it easy and 
> need the high and near positions. 
>
> I won't opine much on "which bike", because once you figure out your fit 
> criteria, any bike that allows you to have that position will work fine. I 
> have my Sam Hillbornes set up almost identically to my custom Waterford ST 
> and Rivendell Road, except on the Riv Road the handlebars are a bit farther 
> away and lower. 
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

No problem.  But the thing is that I have a bike(s) that I could let her 
ride to see if she could adapt to a "road bike" frame.  And I "think" I 
have ones closed to that dimension that I would be happy to let her test 
ride to see if they'd work.

On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:26:41 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:

> Sorry @George, I did not mean to come off as rude. The 81 PBH detail just 
> stood out because I seem to recall Leah is around my own height of 
> 5'6''-5'7'' ...but vastly younger (I'm 71) and vastly fitter , of course. 
> So I had to go to my own Riv stud books to see what my PBH was...shortish 
> torso, longer legs and see why Grant put me on a 56 frame. The Rossin for 
> comparison was 53 or 54 and my allrounder was 54. GP would size up for a 
> road frame, as I recall
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:18:33 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>
>> Actually, what I was more interested in was her stand over height (SOH).  
>> Riding a regular road frame bike would require whether or not one could 
>> "stand over" the bike's top tube without discomfort.  Riv gives the 
>> specifics for various past models for this measurement.
>>
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:12:07 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> Ryan - sorry.  I don't always see things as clearly with my aged 
>>> ready-for-cataract surgery eyeballs.  Nevertheless, it bears repeating.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:06:11 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>>>
>>>> 81 PBH was mentioned
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There ya go Leah!...Put yourself in Bill's more-than-capable hands and 
>>>>> you won't go wrong!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Leah
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My previous Roadeo was set up as a straight-ahead stripped down road 
>>>>>> bike, and I would have used that anyplace anybody rides a road bike.  
>>>>>> After 
>>>>>> selling that, and while I was waiting for my new pink Roadeo, I used my 
>>>>>> Black Mountain Road in that stripped down road bike slot, and that bike 
>>>>>> was 
>>>>>> the deal of the century, IMO.  The RoadeoRosa revealed itself to be more 
>>>>>> than just a stripped down road bike: It has insisted to become my 700c 
>>>>>> randonneuse.  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I did a very fast build on a Leo Roadini, last batch, and my 
>>>>>> best-ever brevet time was on that bike.  So I think it's doable.  The 
>>>>>> newer 
>>>>>> batch with its long reach brakes feels less "roadie".  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can sympathize with the desire to run a Riv, but I'd also recommend 
>>>>>> casting a wider net, because smaller frame sized used road bikes can be 
>>>>>> had 
>>>>>> at a really good price.  Maybe if you start trolling Michigan craigslist 
>>>>>> and the next time I'm out in Wayne County for work I can come be your 
>>>>>> personal shopper.  :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anything that can be set up with drop bars can probably also be set 
>>>>>> up with an albastache build, which may ease you in.  Also, having a 
>>>>>> placeholder road bike could free you up to put a deposit on a Roadeo and 
>>>>>> then you'll have both!  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do let me know if you want more advice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>>>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a 
>>>>>>> Rivendell roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know 
>>>>>>> that the Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no 
>>>>>>> idea 
>>>>>>> what is going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one 
>>>>>>> looks 
>>>>>>> great but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which 
>>>>>>> would be 
>>>>>>> ideal. 
>>>>>>>
>>&

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Actually, what I was more interested in was her stand over height (SOH).  
Riding a regular road frame bike would require whether or not one could 
"stand over" the bike's top tube without discomfort.  Riv gives the 
specifics for various past models for this measurement.

On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:12:07 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> Ryan - sorry.  I don't always see things as clearly with my aged 
> ready-for-cataract surgery eyeballs.  Nevertheless, it bears repeating.
>
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:06:11 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>
>> 81 PBH was mentioned
>>
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> There ya go Leah!...Put yourself in Bill's more-than-capable hands and 
>>> you won't go wrong!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Leah
>>>>
>>>> My previous Roadeo was set up as a straight-ahead stripped down road 
>>>> bike, and I would have used that anyplace anybody rides a road bike.  
>>>> After 
>>>> selling that, and while I was waiting for my new pink Roadeo, I used my 
>>>> Black Mountain Road in that stripped down road bike slot, and that bike 
>>>> was 
>>>> the deal of the century, IMO.  The RoadeoRosa revealed itself to be more 
>>>> than just a stripped down road bike: It has insisted to become my 700c 
>>>> randonneuse.  
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I did a very fast build on a Leo Roadini, last batch, and my 
>>>> best-ever brevet time was on that bike.  So I think it's doable.  The 
>>>> newer 
>>>> batch with its long reach brakes feels less "roadie".  
>>>>
>>>> I can sympathize with the desire to run a Riv, but I'd also recommend 
>>>> casting a wider net, because smaller frame sized used road bikes can be 
>>>> had 
>>>> at a really good price.  Maybe if you start trolling Michigan craigslist 
>>>> and the next time I'm out in Wayne County for work I can come be your 
>>>> personal shopper.  :)
>>>>
>>>> Anything that can be set up with drop bars can probably also be set up 
>>>> with an albastache build, which may ease you in.  Also, having a 
>>>> placeholder road bike could free you up to put a deposit on a Roadeo and 
>>>> then you'll have both!  
>>>>
>>>> Do let me know if you want more advice
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
>>>>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
>>>>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
>>>>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
>>>>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
>>>>> ideal. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
>>>>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know 
>>>>> what 
>>>>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have 
>>>>> before. 
>>>>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
>>>>> take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach 
>>>>> stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out 
>>>>> of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart 
>>>>> rate 
>>>>> was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed 
>>>>> it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and 
>>>>> I’m 
>>>>> the youngest and probably the most fit. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Leah
>>>>>
>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Ryan - sorry.  I don't always see things as clearly with my aged 
ready-for-cataract surgery eyeballs.  Nevertheless, it bears repeating.


On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:06:11 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:

> 81 PBH was mentioned
>
> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 4:04:52 PM UTC-5 Ryan wrote:
>
>> There ya go Leah!...Put yourself in Bill's more-than-capable hands and 
>> you won't go wrong!
>>
>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 3:51:55 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> My previous Roadeo was set up as a straight-ahead stripped down road 
>>> bike, and I would have used that anyplace anybody rides a road bike.  After 
>>> selling that, and while I was waiting for my new pink Roadeo, I used my 
>>> Black Mountain Road in that stripped down road bike slot, and that bike was 
>>> the deal of the century, IMO.  The RoadeoRosa revealed itself to be more 
>>> than just a stripped down road bike: It has insisted to become my 700c 
>>> randonneuse.  
>>>
>>> Anyway, I did a very fast build on a Leo Roadini, last batch, and my 
>>> best-ever brevet time was on that bike.  So I think it's doable.  The newer 
>>> batch with its long reach brakes feels less "roadie".  
>>>
>>> I can sympathize with the desire to run a Riv, but I'd also recommend 
>>> casting a wider net, because smaller frame sized used road bikes can be had 
>>> at a really good price.  Maybe if you start trolling Michigan craigslist 
>>> and the next time I'm out in Wayne County for work I can come be your 
>>> personal shopper.  :)
>>>
>>> Anything that can be set up with drop bars can probably also be set up 
>>> with an albastache build, which may ease you in.  Also, having a 
>>> placeholder road bike could free you up to put a deposit on a Roadeo and 
>>> then you'll have both!  
>>>
>>> Do let me know if you want more advice
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
 roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
 Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
 going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
 but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
 ideal. 

 Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
 Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what 
 size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. 
 I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.

 Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
 take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach 
 stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out 
 of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate 
 was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed 
 it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m 
 the youngest and probably the most fit. 

 Leah

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[George Schick]

Leah - do you know your PBH or standover height or anything else that might 
contribute to your being able to ride a regular "road bike" with a more or 
less level top tube?  That would help our giving an answer.  Also, do you 
know what your pedal-to-saddle measurement is?  That would be helpful as 
well.


On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 2:33:50 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
> ideal. 
>
> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what 
> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. 
> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>
> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does take 
> a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach stem 
> which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out of me. 
> I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate was in 
> the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed it was a 
> hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m the 
> youngest and probably the most fit. 
>
> Leah
>

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[RBW] Re: Grant’s Mointain

[George Schick]

For those of you living in the Bay Area, which is the steepest, longest 
climb, the one up Mt. Diablo or the one up Mt. Hamilton?

On Friday, April 12, 2024 at 9:07:51 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:

> Another photo from the upcoming “36 Views of Mt Diablo.” Taken this 
> morning on my way to San Francisco for a ride around the Bay. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ride Report--'24 Diablo Summit #3 and first big ride on RoadeoRosa

[George Schick]

Since you had to do quite a bit of walking I assume you either had SPD 
pedals on that bike and wore MTB type shoes?  Or maybe just regular running 
shoes and flat pedals?


On Saturday, April 6, 2024 at 6:14:55 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Today I did '24 Diablo Summit #4 on my fourth different bike, my Black 
> Mountain Model Zero.  This time I took a bunch of alternate routes on a few 
> of the trails of Mount Diablo, partially to prepare for the burliest ride 
> of the year, the Marin Mountains 200k in June.  There was quite a lot of 
> snow remaining near the summit from this week's cold snap.  It was cool but 
> not terribly cold.  The trails I decided to explore included a bunch that 
> were far too steep to ride, so I used the 24" gear (slang for walking). 
>  Only 32 miles, but 5600 feet of climbing.  I had made a S.M.A.R.T. goal to 
> summit Diablo 5 times on 5 bikes, and now it looks like I may do it every 
> month of the year.  Speaking of every month, I'm working on an R12, and my 
> April 200k is on Sunday the 14th, which I'll do on the pink Roadeo.  It's 
> looking like the cold wet Calfornia Winter may be completely over.  Snow on 
> Mount Diablo today and the weather app says Walnut Creek will be in the 80s 
> mid-week.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 3:19:59 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> This morning I rode out my front door in El Cerrito to the Summit of 
>> Mount Diablo.  It was my first big ride on my new pink Roadeo, having 
>> tackled the travails of Rene Herse Cantilevers and having just set up a new 
>> pair of tubeless Rene Herse Orondo Grade tires.  It was in the high 40s 
>> when I left, just before sunrise.  As soon as the sun came out it warmed up 
>> quite a bit and was a beautiful breezy Spring Day.  
>>
>> The bike was perfect, the tires were splendid.  Despite the planing 
>> devotees telling me the Roadeo is over-stiff I respectfully disagree.  I 
>> posted my second best time on Strava, which I'm pleased with, all things 
>> considered.  I got after it pretty good.  I think when I posted my best 
>> time I was 10lbs lighter, during my coaching days.  
>>
>> After the descent I headed to Walnut Creek BART, but of course paid a 
>> short social visit at Riv HQ.  Grant was there, and he grabbed my bike and 
>> went and rode it around.  The big surprise was Manny was there.  I got to 
>> meet his delightful young daughter.  Grant reported that my bike rides 
>> great, and approved of my build.  We chatted for a little while, and off I 
>> went.  
>>
>> 70miles, 5300ft.  Multiple compliments received on my pink bike and 
>> matching pink socks.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Gearing Choices

[george schick]

I'm apparently of the same ilk as Bill.  I'm using a Shimano Crane RD 
(their predecessor to the Dura-Ace line) on a Fuji Finest of the same time 
period, very early 70's, and it looks just fine on there.

On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 6:09:49 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I admire how the entire build hinges on a rear derailleur that looks good, 
> first and foremost, and everything else will fall into place after that. 
>  ;-)
>
> BL
>
> On Thursday, April 4, 2024 at 12:59:37 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, April 3, 2024 at 9:54:49 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> Even OLD is TBD?
>>
>>
>> Yes, but I don’t have any specific requirements there. I don’t expect 
>> chainring clearance or chain deflection issues to cause me to lean in a 
>> particular direction. However, availability of compatible  components will 
>> be a factor.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee WI USA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: tektro 559 left-right adjustment screw

[George Schick]

LOL, indeed!  Shimano SP brakes have a small notch on the brake arm closest 
to the fork crown so you can center it before tightening the brake mounting 
bolt.  Looking at the Tektro brakes on one of my bikes, it has no such mark 
- so you have to clamp the brake arms together to get them as close as 
possible to even before tightening.  That adjustment set screw is just 
there for minor tweaks in the final adjustments.  Sounds like the brakes on 
that bike were mounted and tightened way too unevenly before any set screw 
adjustment was done.

On Saturday, March 30, 2024 at 11:22:14 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> LOL
>
> On Saturday, March 30, 2024 at 9:15:58 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hm.. Actually, I just discovered that I hadn't lost the screw after all. 
>> It's just all the way in!
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 9:12 AM Piaw Na(藍俊彪)  wrote:
>>
>>> I've attached a picture of the front brake with the screw missing and 
>>> the rear brake where the screw is still present
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 29, 2024, 20:52 Pam Bikes  wrote:
>>>
 Not sure what you need but I may have one from a parts pair of brakes.  
 Take a picture and I'll see if I have the part and will send it to you.


 On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 10:59:21 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I went to adjust it on my son's Roadini today and discovered that it 
> had fallen off (probably during an off-road excursion). What's the 
> easiest 
> way to get a replacement?
>
>
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>>>

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[RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[George Schick]

Oh boy. There are so many variables that go into good saddle fit and 
comfort that I'm not sure where to begin.  One has to do with the type of 
shorts (or other garbs) which you wear to ride.  Many on this blog have 
talked about the thinner the padding in their shorts the more comfy the 
ride.  Then again, there is the matter of riding position.  If you are 
riding in a more upright position on a bike with bars that reach way back 
you will likely put more pressure and possibly friction on your groin area 
causing discomfort.  There are those who seem to like riding that way - 
kinda like a rolling leg press machine, putting lots and lots of pressure 
on the pedals with every stroke in a very high gear, maybe that's how they 
get by with it - but that's not normative with everyone.  And, of course, 
there's always the usually undiscussed issue of just how sensitive those 
lower bones (ischial tuberosity tissues}, and other skin and muscle tissues 
play a part. 

On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 3:00:24 PM UTC-5 Emily Guise wrote:

> Hello folks, I come to the group with a dilemma. I've never had a saddle 
> that I could ride for longer than 20 miles comfortably. I've always ended 
> up with sore sit bones, numb soft tissue, or both. This has really limited 
> my ability to go on longer trips and after my five day ride on the C 
> canal trail last Sept, it was more apparent than ever I need to find a 
> saddle that won't hurt. 
>
> I've tried dozens of saddles over the last 15 years- leather, plastic, 
> cutouts, no cutouts, wide, medium, softer, harder, you name it. :( Most of 
> the saddles that have stayed on my bikes for longer than a month have a 
> central cut out, are on the wider side, and plastic. They're good for 
> around town, but that's it. I've never had my sit bones measured. 
>
> It occurred to me recently that because I've never had a truly comfortable 
> long-distance saddle, I have no idea how one feels. So I figured I'd ask 
> the group. How did The One saddle feel for you? Did it "disappear"? Was it 
> love at first sit? Did it need to be adjusted a lot before finding the 
> ideal position? Is there a certain amount of miles you ride before it 
> becomes uncomfortable? 
>
> I'd love to hear the group's collective wisdom so I know what to look for 
> in the next saddle I try out. Thanks! 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] I have questions

[George Schick]

A few respondents to this thread have referred to "inflation" (and I don't 
mean these horrible price increases we're undergoing), J and Jay...maybe 
it's J used to take my truck to a transmission repair service by that 
name and they did a poor job of serving, but I digress.  Anyway, inflation 
and pressure matter a great deal.  I run 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon 
tires on my Surly 1x1 and if I haven't ridden it for a while and the 
pressure gets down to 20 lbs or so they feel like I'm riding on wheels with 
foam pipe insulation glued to the rims; OTOH if I pump them up to 35 lbs 
(the range recommended on the tire sidewalls) they respond like an 
overinflated basketball that bounces 6ft. when dribbling.  IOW, it's good 
to experiment with various inflation pressures when making the decision 
whether or not a certain tire is a good or bad performer.  Having said 
that, if one rides primarily on smooth roads vs. gravel paths vs. off-road 
trails it would make sense to pick the tire with minimal tread (or smooth) 
for regular riding. 

On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> The actual speed difference between a similar quality 48mm and a 42mm will 
> be extremely small - I wouldn't sweat it at all! Probably like 0.1 mph 
> difference. Most of the perceived difference is all in our heads, based on 
> the squish-factor and the buzz they make on pavement, neither of which 
> necessarily relate to speed. I would simply air them up to the same 
> pressure you run on your 42mm tires for the speedy rides. The Gravel King 
> is a reasonably quick tire, no concerns there to me. 
>
> There is no definitive answer on the strap, since it's about risk 
> tolerance, but with the higher load limit of the basket rack as well as the 
> fact that most of the structure is welded with just that little adjustable 
> bit at the bottom ... I would not run a strap with it. I don't think it 
> would fall into the front tire the same way as the small racks do when they 
> fail, plus it's less likely to fail in the first place. It's always a good 
> idea to occasionally check that all the rack fixing bolts are tight, in any 
> case. 
>
> Sorry to hear about Second Winter, as indeed the cherry blossoms are upon 
> us here in Vancouver! 
>
> On Wednesday 20 March 2024 at 12:00:48 UTC-7 JohnS wrote:
>
>> Will has Mark's alternate safety strap in this email news letter, scroll 
>> down to "Mark's safety cable". Looks like a good solution since the cable 
>> housing protects the bike frame from the cable.
>>
>>
>> https://us7.campaign-archive.com/?u=ad1569fa93a2ab2374ead2fde=279bef4181
>>
>> As far as 650B tires go, I recommend Rene Herse Babyshoe Pass 42mm width 
>> tire, extra light casing. They are great for mixed surface rides; road and 
>> hard packed gravel or cinder such as a rail trail. As mentioned already, 
>> they are not so good in mud where they can get squirmy and can loose 
>> traction. I have them on my Crust Lightening Bolt canti which is my bike 
>> for long rides and mixed surfaces. I have Gravel King SK tires on my gravel 
>> bike. They are a very good tire and I use that bike for more challenging 
>> gravel rides where the surface can be looser and the trails are more like 
>> mountain bike single track.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> JohnS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 12:21:08 PM UTC-4 J wrote:
>>
>>> You don't say which Gravel King model you are using, but I see in your 
>>> Philly post that you have Ultradynamico Cava tires on your bike. So maybe 
>>> you run the file tread GK? Anyhow, I rode through 2 sets of 700x42 Gravel 
>>> King SK on my old Sam Hillbourne before moving up to 700x50 which just 
>>> barely fit. I thought I'd notice a big difference but it turned out not to 
>>> be true, as long as I kept the air pressure up. I only have 650b bikes now, 
>>> and don't ride Gravel King SK after discovering the Rene Herse file tread 
>>> much smoother and faster "feeling". I've switched back and forth from 42 
>>> and 48mm RH file treads as well as 42 Gran Bois and have settled on 48mm RH 
>>> (Switchback Hill) which measures quite a bit over 48mm on my wheels. The 
>>> 42mm tires gave the perception that I was faster but the strava data did 
>>> not corroborate, and the 48mm have so much lovely float over gravel 
>>> compared to anything narrower or with tooth, I figured why bother? YMMV but 
>>> I think 48s won't be an issue. If my words sway you at all towards RH, just 
>>> keep in mind that they are not great in wet conditions with steep descents 
>>> combined with rim brakes. I learned this twice this fall, and kept RH 
>>> knobbies on until a few days ago. 
>>>
>>> mysterious J
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2024 at 11:42:19 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 The 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones that used to be on my dirt road Matthews 
 were among the very fastest-rolling tires I've used, including various 
 "racing" tires and 2 extralight RH models. I'd say 

[RBW] Re: tektro 559 left-right adjustment screw

[George Schick]

I would think that any well stocked hardware store would carry set screws 
like that.

On Sunday, March 17, 2024 at 9:59:21 PM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I went to adjust it on my son's Roadini today and discovered that it had 
> fallen off (probably during an off-road excursion). What's the easiest way 
> to get a replacement?
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Anyone else not a fan of the very long chainstays?

[George Schick]

Ian sez, "...I still daydream of owning a beautiful lugged Riv that I could 
ride forever, I understand and appreciate their drive to innovate and 
embrace change, and know that change is the only real constant, but it's 
not always for the better"

I began serious riding in the midst of the early 70's "bike boom" and have 
owned and ridden probably a dozen different bikes in the 50+ years since.  
Prior to that, I've had bikes ever since the mid-50's - a cantilever framed 
Schwinn with 24" wheels to start, then a 3-speed IGH Raleigh knock-off, 
then a cheap 10-speed.  I, too, have always been in search of the "perfect" 
bike that I could ride for the remainder of my life.  I finally dialed in 
on such a bike when I bought my Ram back in '04.  I'm approaching 75 now 
(IOW, "middle" old age) and still find it perfect fit.  I wish I would have 
had that bike way back when I began riding more seriously. It was basically 
a production model of what Riv called the "long low."  Everything about it 
is just perfect (for me anyway).

On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 8:46:56 AM UTC-6 ian m wrote:

> On Thursday, March 7, 2024 at 2:11:06 AM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:
>
> Like Tim, I got an early Clem, thinking it would be an updated, 
> proper-fitting version of an analog 80s or 90s mountain bike - because 
> that's how it was initially concieved and described by Grant.   But I 
> admittedly struggled on trails, just as you describe.  So it kind of 
> morphed into something else, for other kinds of riding.  
>
>
>  I too had the same Clem origin story. I had always wanted a Riv but 
> couldn't afford one at the time while I was daily riding, touring, and 
> offroading an my '90 Fisher MTB. When the Clem was announced I was over the 
> moon, it sounded like it was designed just for me and the lower price point 
> meant I could stop dreaming of falling into some money to buy a Hunq and 
> get my first Riv. I think it's unfortunate that it was designed around the 
> Bosco bars which made it impossible for me to get a good fit with less 
> aggressively upright bars, and soon found out the extra long chainstays 
> made it a chore to lift the front end even enough to clear sharp tree roots.
> With the Clem not being up to off-road duty where I live I picked up a 
> Jones Plus LWB to hit the trails on and what a revelation. Similar 
> wheelbase length but it's the front center that is extended rather than the 
> rear triangle, so the bike felt incredibly nimble and handled 
> fantastically. Really smart design. Unfortunately I had to sell a bike to 
> free up some funds and chose the Jones over the Clem which I regret.
>
> I also wish that not every Riv model had growing chainstays. I still 
> daydream of owning a beautiful lugged Riv that I could ride forever, I 
> understand and appreciate their drive to innovate and embrace change, and 
> know that change is the only real constant, but it's not always for the 
> better.
>

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[RBW] Re: Sit Bone Width and Saddles

[George Schick]

The trouble is that experimenting around with these different saddle 
widths, lengths, "scoops," or whatever in order to find the right fit can 
run into a lot of money.  Most of these saddles, Brooks especially, aren't 
cheap and having to buy and try one only to find that it doesn't work for 
you can be a difficult decision.  Too bad that someone hasn't developed a 
"saddle fit" device like the "fit kit" where one could experience the ride 
of all these different kinds of dimensions. But that's probably an 
impractical idea...
On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 6:45:42 PM UTC-6 Jay wrote:

> I'll preface this by saying I know saddles are highly subjective, and what 
> works for one may not work fo you.  What I wanted to ask about is "general 
> thinking".  Just wanting to confirm some thoughts I've had about this...
>
> My sit bones are 125mm apart.  I've had them measured a few times.  This 
> is when I'm sitting upright.  I believe general rule is the more upright 
> you are on the bike, the wider you go with the saddle (e.g., if I'm 90 
> degrees/straight up, add a few cm; aero, maybe just one cm).  Any other 
> logic to share with respect to sit bones and saddle width?
>
> My saddle is level with tops of my bars (on two of three bikes).  This 
> puts me in a comfortable position, maybe 60 degrees when I'm in the hoods. 
>  All three bikes have drop bars, but only the older road bike has bars 
> below the saddle.  My neck and upper back feel great in this position, and 
> I've previously had issues in this area, so that's a victory.
>
> I'm still dialing in my Roadini, but for now I have a WTB Silverado on 
> there (135 wide).  It's maybe a little narrow, but I've done 2hr rides and 
> felt fine (pedalling is not impeded at all, and it's comfortable in the 
> nether regions).  Feels like my sit bones are close to the edge but I can 
> feel around there and know there is just enough room to spare.  I've had 
> that same saddle on another bike and that was also fine.  Not a big fan of 
> the edges on that saddle, as it's very flat across and feels like it's 
> digging in a bit (a cm further out than my sit bones), but I'm trying to 
> sort that out and not really my point with this post (just sharing for 
> context).  Reason I went with this 135mm saddle is my previous 147mm 
> Prologo felt too wide, and the cut out was digging in the nether regions. 
>  So I tried something more narrow and I no longer get that discomfort.
>
> I do have a Brooks B17, and I've had one before on an older bike, and a 
> few other leather saddles over the years.  What's attracted me to them is 
> that I rarely got any friction or chafing, or sit bone pain.  I do set them 
> up, nose up, so rear of the saddle is flat and I'm not sliding forward.  
>
> However, the B17 is 35mm wider than the WTB, and 45mm wider than my sit 
> bones, so I'm wondering if this saddle make sense for me...and anyone else 
> with similar 'specs'. I've read/watched reviews where much bigger folks 
> love the saddle (some hate it too, but that's maybe about 
> leather/hardness).  Some of the reviews are from people who say their sit 
> bones are 150+ apart.  That gives them 10mm on either side, vs. my 22.5mm 
> per side.  I realize how we sit on the saddle, torso angle, etc., are 
> different, but generally speaking...like do skinny people or those with 
> somewhat narrow sit bones get along great with this saddle?  If so, is 
> there a set up trick for them, that is different than someone with much 
> wider sit bones?  I would say my problem with it is pedalling freedom, and 
> not feeling impeded by the size of the saddle, the skirt, etc.  I can't say 
> for sure that's my problem with it, just giving a theory.
>
> I'll pause there, as I'll likely get some good questions/comments and can 
> take it from there.  Thanks!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Official Introduction of RoadeoRosa

[George Schick]

It took me a while to figure out the color scheme on this bike, but it 
finally dawned on my aging memory cells.  It's the same colors of Good N' 
Plenty candy!
On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 12:44:02 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Toshi
>
> The strange backstory is that I was thinking of a pink bike for a LONG 
> time.  One of the saddle models that just works for me is the Fizik Arione, 
> and there's a great market for them on ebay because they come in colors 
> that don't work on many bikes, so they are cheap as hell second hand.  I 
> stumbled across one in the Rapha Cycle Club 'colorway', which is 
> pink/white/black.  I bought the saddle and commited that I would paint the 
> Roadeo to match the saddle!  Subsequently, as the frame delayed and 
> delayed, I slowly was acquiring lighter and lighter stuff for the build.  I 
> knew I could get close to 20 pounds WITH fenders, front rack, bell, pump, 
> and pedals, so I spent big bucks on the Arione 00 saddle to drop another 90 
> grams.  I still have the pink, white and black saddle, but it's on a yellow 
> bike now.  Yuck!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> P.S. there is no good shade of pink cloth handlebar tape.  Newbaums used 
> to have a nice pale pink, but no more.  Boo!
>
> On Tuesday, February 20, 2024 at 10:23:56 AM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> You did follow Rule 8!  It's not too late to switch to the pink and blue 
>> harlequin bar tape :).  
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Frame Day (the build commences)

[George Schick]

I agree with other commenters - a very nice build and selection of 
components (I wouldn't be able to tolerate that ass-hatchet saddle, though. 
It would get me right where my sciatica flares up).  I'm still not entirely 
on board with the frame/fender color, though, but to each his own.

On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 6:52:24 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> The pre-fenders build is now complete.  It's pouring rain so there's no 
> inaugural ride and the lighting is poor but I took a few shots on my porch 
> of the bike looking like a complete bike.  With two water bottle cages, and 
> a pump, and a front rack the bike is still just under 20 pounds, but I 
> concede it will be over 20 pounds with fenders.  
>
> The album is updated, scroll to the end:
> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:20 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty fabulous! Can’t believe how quick you put that together. Like a 
>> jackrabbit on a date, as they say! I’m excited to see all the little 
>> details at the end, oh please let them be sparkly. Where will the inaugural 
>> ride take you?
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 11:24:15 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Rule #8 is one of "The Rules" of the Velominati.  It's a somewhat tongue 
>>> in cheek, somewhat serious group of cyclists who have enumerated Rules of 
>>> activity and fashion for cycling and for bicycles.  Rule #8 just states 
>>> that the handlebars, saddle and tires must be very carefully and 
>>> deliberately matched, and states that the easiest way to do that is to have 
>>> the tires, saddle and handlebars all black.  Meditating on a rule is one of 
>>> the joke-penance things that the Velominati tell people to do.  Meditating 
>>> on Rule #8 is my attempt at a joke that means my handlebar tape, and 
>>> saddle, and tires are all going to be black.  
>>>
>>> I made good progress yesterday, and spent a bit of extra machine-shop 
>>> time making custom decorative headset spacers and indeed grinding off the 
>>> lawyer lips.  I got the cockpit assembled and slowed down/stalled on the 
>>> brake setup.  There are two parts new and unique about this from my earlier 
>>> builds.  I am using fancy Jagwire Elite housing, which was a new procedure 
>>> for me, and I'm using the very elegant Rene Herse cantilever brakes, which 
>>> have a number of their own idiosyncratic nuances.  I got the front set up, 
>>> and I stopped there for meditation of my own.  The Flickr album has more 
>>> shots in it.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Okay, I'll bitewhat is this rule #8 of which you speak?

 On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 6:44:14 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> SMH
>
> Meditate on Rule #8, consider my Legolas, meditate much longer on Rule 
> #8, and then recite Rule #8
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> I'm guessing blue bar tape to match the headbadge!
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Frame Day (the build commences)

[George Schick]

Huh. I'm not familiar with Rene Hearse brakes.  Pads with adjustable 
conical washers are not available for these?  Seems like bending an 
aluminum alloy part like this would be kinda risky.


On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:24:15 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Rule #8 is one of "The Rules" of the Velominati.  It's a somewhat tongue 
> in cheek, somewhat serious group of cyclists who have enumerated Rules of 
> activity and fashion for cycling and for bicycles.  Rule #8 just states 
> that the handlebars, saddle and tires must be very carefully and 
> deliberately matched, and states that the easiest way to do that is to have 
> the tires, saddle and handlebars all black.  Meditating on a rule is one of 
> the joke-penance things that the Velominati tell people to do.  Meditating 
> on Rule #8 is my attempt at a joke that means my handlebar tape, and 
> saddle, and tires are all going to be black.  
>
> I made good progress yesterday, and spent a bit of extra machine-shop time 
> making custom decorative headset spacers and indeed grinding off the lawyer 
> lips.  I got the cockpit assembled and slowed down/stalled on the brake 
> setup.  There are two parts new and unique about this from my earlier 
> builds.  I am using fancy Jagwire Elite housing, which was a new procedure 
> for me, and I'm using the very elegant Rene Herse cantilever brakes, which 
> have a number of their own idiosyncratic nuances.  I got the front set up, 
> and I stopped there for meditation of my own.  The Flickr album has more 
> shots in it.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Okay, I'll bitewhat is this rule #8 of which you speak?
>>
>> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 6:44:14 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> SMH
>>>
>>> Meditate on Rule #8, consider my Legolas, meditate much longer on Rule 
>>> #8, and then recite Rule #8
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>>>
 I'm guessing blue bar tape to match the headbadge!

 Toshi



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Re: [RBW] Re: New Frame Day (the build commences)

[George Schick]

"...and indeed grinding off the lawyer lips..." ???  I would'a thought 
you'd have ground those off before it was painted.  You must have some 
touch up paint of the same color.

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:24:15 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Rule #8 is one of "The Rules" of the Velominati.  It's a somewhat tongue 
> in cheek, somewhat serious group of cyclists who have enumerated Rules of 
> activity and fashion for cycling and for bicycles.  Rule #8 just states 
> that the handlebars, saddle and tires must be very carefully and 
> deliberately matched, and states that the easiest way to do that is to have 
> the tires, saddle and handlebars all black.  Meditating on a rule is one of 
> the joke-penance things that the Velominati tell people to do.  Meditating 
> on Rule #8 is my attempt at a joke that means my handlebar tape, and 
> saddle, and tires are all going to be black.  
>
> I made good progress yesterday, and spent a bit of extra machine-shop time 
> making custom decorative headset spacers and indeed grinding off the lawyer 
> lips.  I got the cockpit assembled and slowed down/stalled on the brake 
> setup.  There are two parts new and unique about this from my earlier 
> builds.  I am using fancy Jagwire Elite housing, which was a new procedure 
> for me, and I'm using the very elegant Rene Herse cantilever brakes, which 
> have a number of their own idiosyncratic nuances.  I got the front set up, 
> and I stopped there for meditation of my own.  The Flickr album has more 
> shots in it.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 7:20:01 AM UTC-8 steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Okay, I'll bitewhat is this rule #8 of which you speak?
>>
>> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 6:44:14 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> SMH
>>>
>>> Meditate on Rule #8, consider my Legolas, meditate much longer on Rule 
>>> #8, and then recite Rule #8
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 3:42:06 PM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>>>
 I'm guessing blue bar tape to match the headbadge!

 Toshi



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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day (the build commences)

[George Schick]

The biggest surprise I'm awaiting is the color of the bar tape.  I'm 
expecting pink (or at least light red) and white splash.
Maybe you should start a lottery for the build specs instead of a flat 
charge.  He/she who guesses the bestist wins the mostest.


On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 4:08:10 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I'm planning on selling my build list for $50, to help offset the price of 
> the bicycle.  For an extra $25 I will autograph that build list.  
>
> Those are not Highway One bars.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 1:58:28 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> Are you planning to provide a component list (make & model) when you're 
>> done with the build (e.g., are those Highway One bars?)
>>
>> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 1:49:24 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I picked up my Pink Roadeo frame, fork, stem and fenders this morning at 
>>> Riv HQ.  I took several photos and added them to my Flickr album with no 
>>> commentary (yet):
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003/
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New Frame Day (the build commences)

[George Schick]

Are you planning to provide a component list (make & model) when you're 
done with the build (e.g., are those Highway One bars?)

On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 1:49:24 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I picked up my Pink Roadeo frame, fork, stem and fenders this morning at 
> Riv HQ.  I took several photos and added them to my Flickr album with no 
> commentary (yet):
>
> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003/
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: 1997 Road Standard - 57cm on the Ebay

[George Schick]

@#$%&!!  Seems like every time something like this becomes available it's 
always in a big frame size!  Groan...


On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 9:51:47 AM UTC-6 josh.yo...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Gorgeous bike!
>
> Hard to tell if it’s a “fair” price until the auction ends though. This 
> one is going to go big I think. 
>
> Josh
> Bainbridge Island, WA
>

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[RBW] Re: Knobby tires and fenders

[George Schick]

Patrick: yes to several of your requests. But I don't want to clutter up 
this blog with photos so I'm sending you a PM with them attached.

On Sunday, January 28, 2024 at 3:36:55 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I am thinking of getting a second wheelset for the 2016 Chauncey Matthews 
> "road bike for dirt" to supplement the very nice, very all-rounder-type 48 
> mm labeled/50 actual Soma Supple Vitesse SL wheelset. The second wheelset 
> would have knobbies for sand, since the Somas just don't have the float and 
> directional stability that I need for our sandy trails.
>
> Riv content: I told Chauncey to measure my 2 (at the time) custom Riv 
> Roads and make the new bike handle as much l like those as possible. (And 
> with the Somas it does, wonderful; the 60 mm Big Ones wallowed and wandered 
> --- not horrible, just not Rivendell-like -- tho' they floated well over 
> sand.)
>
> I am thinking of using RH knobbies -- since the reportedly once 
> superlatively light and fast Thunder Burt has gained oz and stiffness 
> compared to its first edition. *(730 grams for the 700C X 2.35!!* The 
> 2.35 Big Ones are a digitally true 450 grams, and the F Freds that the TBs 
> replaced were a true 360 at a true 50 mm.)
>
> The 55 mm Fleecer Ridges (per specs ELs would probably measure very close 
> to 60 tubeless on my 27 mm IW rims) for max float; but this would mean 
> removing the Kelpie fenders. 
>
> I like fenders. I live in the high desert with an average 9" of rain a 
> year but we have a *lot* of dust and full fenders keep a great deal of it 
> off my legs and off of the bike. Also, the Matthews was one of my 2 "rain 
> bikes" -- puddles and snow melt included.
>
> I used these fenders with 60 mm Big Ones, but those were smooth tread and 
> even so barely cleared under the seatstay bridge; about 5 mm.
>
> Obviously, using ~60 mm knobbies with these fenders would be foolish, and 
> I've been thinking that perhaps the Oracle Ridge might work with them, at 
> barely 50 mm extrapolated from the website; the 50 mm Somas have perhaps 
> just shy of 2 cm of clearance at that tight spot under the seatstay bridge 
> and 3 cm+ under the fork crown. (The Big Ones measured ~29 1/2" tall, the 
> Somas ~28 1/2" tall, so 1/2 inch/~12mm difference.)
>
> So I'm curious if any of youse use fenders with knobbies and:
>
> 1. What is the minimum gap your require?
>
> 2. how big are the knobs? IOW, are small, even knobs as on the RH knobbies 
> safer with fenders than the big fat knobs on real mtb tires?
>
> 3. What do you say in particular to ~50 mm Oracle Ridges under full 
> fenders with the clearances described?
>
> I cannot use the aftermarket stay breakaway systems because the Kelpie 
> stays are 50% fatter than the stays they were designed for.
>
> 4. If I don't use full fenders I will certainly install "motocross-style" 
> fenders, but those I've seen are fugly. 
>
> 4.a) Are there non-fugly clip ons? 
>
> 4.b)Share photos?
>
> 4.c) Source/link?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RAGBRAI?

[George Schick]

Amen, broke.  When I was still working in the city I used to ride the bike 
the 2 miles or so the station, take the train downtown, and walk the 4 or 5 
blocks to the office.  Why others would insist on driving the 25-30 miles 
in bumper-to-bumper stop/go traffic and then pay big bucks for a monthly 
parking garage fee was something I never understood.

On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 7:22:07 AM UTC-6 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> It’s unfortunate that this country never has, and never will embrace 
> multi-modal transportation. Just think of all the biking possibilities that 
> could be available to so many more of us, and not just those who live in 
> major metropolitan areas. 
>
> On Jan 27, 2024, at 8:00 AM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Yes, you remember rightly, George. This was why I had to get a 50 cm Platy 
> (still waiting for parts to be built) - so that I could put it on Amtrak; 
> the 55 is just too long. And even then the 50 will be a tight fit, and you 
> can only have so many bikes on the train, and there’s some other dumb rules 
> that may or may not be enforced when we get there. It’s not a bulletproof 
> plan. Marc does it with a Brompton.
>
> On Jan 26, 2024, at 11:54 AM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I hate to throw a wet blanket on this idea, but wasn't there some 
> discussion on this forum a while back about taking bikes on Amtrak, which 
> trains allow them and which ones don't, where and how they store the bikes, 
> etc?  Not sure if that was ever resolved for this route. Has anyone done 
> this before on this Amtrak Wolverine route?
>
> On Friday, January 26, 2024 at 10:42:00 AM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Marc! You want to do this with me, I’m sure!
>> The Lone Wolf and The Platypus Rider Ride Across Two States. I can see it 
>> now.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2024, at 11:29 AM, Marc Irwin  wrote:
>>
>> Leah, 
>>
>>  The ride from Millenium Park sounds like the route I've taken 
>> several times to and from Chicago, using Indiana Dunes as one of the 
>> overnights.  It would be a good ride, you could take Amtrak to Chicago and 
>> return on Amtrak from New Buffalo.
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> On Thursday, January 25, 2024 at 9:23:10 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Leif, I could do this It’s Father’s day weekend, so that is the only 
>>> possible snag. I’m going to try and make this ride! Thank you!!!
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:27 PM, Leif Eckstrom  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Leah, and midwestern riders, 
>>>
>>>
>>> There’s a well-planned and well-executed ride from Chicago’s Millenium 
>>> Park to New Buffalo, MI, spread out over 2 days, totalling about 100 miles 
>>> all told. June 14-15 (Friday and Saturday).  Hundreds of friendly 
>>> riders—most camp the first night at Indiana Dunes state park, but hotels 
>>> are another option. Easy pace. Easy route. Food and sag support. 
>>> There are a number of Ragbrai riders who attend this ride from chicago. 
>>> Perhaps they could give you a taste of ragbrai without all the logistical 
>>> headaches. 
>>> I had a lot of fun last year on this ride and made plenty of new 
>>> friends. Registration opens Sunday, February 11. There are busses and 
>>> moving trucks to take you, your luggage, and your bike back to chicago 
>>> should you like. 
>>>
>>> More details here. https://www.bikereg.com/63763
>>>
>>> Best, 
>>> Leif in Chicago
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 3:52:06 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Welp, I was so much more excited about this in theory. After reading 
>>>> about the various experiences of damaged luggage, sweltering temps and 
>>>> difficult logistics, I think I’ll find a different ride to do. 
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to everyone who offered their experiences! It was a great thread 
>>>> to read in the dead of a Michigan winter.
>>>> Leah
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 21, 2024, at 12:03 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If I were to do it again, I would pay for one of the services where 
>>>> they haul your stuff and set up your tent.  Getting a hotel will likely be 
>>>> nearly impossible, given the number of people attending.  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I did RAGBRAI a few years ago and tried bringing my own tent and 
>>>> setting it up at night.  The kids they use to haul luggage from si

Re: [RBW] Re: RAGBRAI?

[George Schick]

I hate to throw a wet blanket on this idea, but wasn't there some 
discussion on this forum a while back about taking bikes on Amtrak, which 
trains allow them and which ones don't, where and how they store the bikes, 
etc?  Not sure if that was ever resolved for this route. Has anyone done 
this before on this Amtrak Wolverine route?

On Friday, January 26, 2024 at 10:42:00 AM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Marc! You want to do this with me, I’m sure!
> The Lone Wolf and The Platypus Rider Ride Across Two States. I can see it 
> now.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 26, 2024, at 11:29 AM, Marc Irwin  wrote:
>
> Leah, 
>
>  The ride from Millenium Park sounds like the route I've taken several 
> times to and from Chicago, using Indiana Dunes as one of the overnights.  
> It would be a good ride, you could take Amtrak to Chicago and return on 
> Amtrak from New Buffalo.
>
> Marc
>
> On Thursday, January 25, 2024 at 9:23:10 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Leif, I could do this It’s Father’s day weekend, so that is the only 
>> possible snag. I’m going to try and make this ride! Thank you!!!
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2024, at 8:27 PM, Leif Eckstrom  wrote:
>>
>> Hey Leah, and midwestern riders, 
>>
>>
>> There’s a well-planned and well-executed ride from Chicago’s Millenium 
>> Park to New Buffalo, MI, spread out over 2 days, totalling about 100 miles 
>> all told. June 14-15 (Friday and Saturday).  Hundreds of friendly 
>> riders—most camp the first night at Indiana Dunes state park, but hotels 
>> are another option. Easy pace. Easy route. Food and sag support. 
>> There are a number of Ragbrai riders who attend this ride from chicago. 
>> Perhaps they could give you a taste of ragbrai without all the logistical 
>> headaches. 
>> I had a lot of fun last year on this ride and made plenty of new friends. 
>> Registration opens Sunday, February 11. There are busses and moving trucks 
>> to take you, your luggage, and your bike back to chicago should you like. 
>>
>> More details here. https://www.bikereg.com/63763
>>
>> Best, 
>> Leif in Chicago
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 3:52:06 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Welp, I was so much more excited about this in theory. After reading 
>>> about the various experiences of damaged luggage, sweltering temps and 
>>> difficult logistics, I think I’ll find a different ride to do. 
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who offered their experiences! It was a great thread 
>>> to read in the dead of a Michigan winter.
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Jan 21, 2024, at 12:03 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:
>>>
>>> If I were to do it again, I would pay for one of the services where 
>>> they haul your stuff and set up your tent.  Getting a hotel will likely be 
>>> nearly impossible, given the number of people attending.  
>>>
>>>
>>> I did RAGBRAI a few years ago and tried bringing my own tent and setting 
>>> it up at night.  The kids they use to haul luggage from site to site 
>>> quickly destroyed my bag.  Basically, they pile them in the truck and if I 
>>> had to guess, they saw my handles and yanked on it to pull it free, but 
>>> tore the brand new heavy canvas bag instead.  I tried holding it together 
>>> with a cable lock and tape, but had to give up on that after a few days.  A 
>>> lot of items I didn't need were tossed, then the rest went into my panniers 
>>> and I had to haul it myself.  Overall, I was a bit disappointed with the 
>>> luggage service side of the trip.  
>>>
>>> However, the ride itself was great, especially eating dinner with 
>>> strangers every evening.  
>>>
>>> One thing I was happy that I brought was my ultralight cot.  It got me 
>>> off of the ground, which kept me dry on rainy evenings and cooler on hot 
>>> days.  
>>>
>>> The next trick is to find a way to charge your phone.  I'd make sure you 
>>> have a power bank available.  
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 5:33:07 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Who knows about Bike Film Festival? 

 I paid for the pass to watch this year’s videos and it was money 
 well-spent. I got to the RAGBRAI documentary last night. Wow. I had heard 
 of it but really knew nothing about it and now I would just love to figure 
 out how to ride it this year. It just looks like such an experience. And 
 I’ve had very few experiences, because I’m late to the bike adventure 
 scene 
 AND I’ve been raising kids! But now they are teenagers and might not even 
 know that I’m gone so maybe I should ride this epic ride!

 There are a ton of logistics I don’t understand. I think you need a 
 “charter” to haul your stuff, yes? And to bring you back across the state 
 after you finish? And if you use these “charters” do they trash your bike 
 in their racks or will they have something that can handle a a mixte with 
 fenders? Is there are charter 

[RBW] Re: Seat lug crack

[George Schick]

Are you the original owner of this Quickbeam or did you buy it used from 
someone?  If the latter is true it may be that the wrong diameter seat post 
was initially used and thus the seat post binder bolt over tightened to 
accommodate.

On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 1:07:41 AM UTC-6 eil...@umich.edu wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I am seeking information about what looks to be a small crack in the seat 
> lug of an orange Quickbeam. The reason I think it’s a crack in the lug and 
> not just the paint is that it is visible from both inside and outside the 
> seat tube. Pictures attached below.
>
> Some questions I have are:
> - Am I diagnosing this correctly as a cracked seat lug?
> - Is a crack this size and in this location a big deal (I’m assuming yes), 
> and if so, how big of a deal?
> - Does this render the frame dangerous to ride?
> - Can something like this be repaired? Is there anyone that’s had 
> something similar repaired who can share their experience?
>
> Thank you for any information anyone can share or point me toward.
>
> Logan
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis special disc edition

[George Schick]

Thanks, Patrick.  But you went a wee bit further than I had intended for 
the definition.  All's OK though!


On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:49:45 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Can't resist. Sandburg's literary style is an analogue of the painting 
> style of Grant Wood. 
>
> Chicago
> BY CARL SANDBURG
> Hog Butcher for the World,
>Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat,
>Player with Railroads and the Nation's Freight Handler;
>Stormy, husky, brawling,
>City of the Big Shoulders:
>
> They tell me you are wicked and I believe them, for I have seen your 
> painted women under the gas lamps luring the farm boys.
> And they tell me you are crooked and I answer: Yes, it is true I have seen 
> the gunman kill and go free to kill again.
> And they tell me you are brutal and my reply is: On the faces of women and 
> children I have seen the marks of wanton hunger.
> And having answered so I turn once more to those who sneer at this my 
> city, and I give them back the sneer and say to them:
> Come and show me another city with lifted head singing so proud to be 
> alive and coarse and strong and cunning.
> Flinging magnetic curses amid the toil of piling job on job, here is a 
> tall bold slugger set vivid against the little soft cities;
> Fierce as a dog with tongue lapping for action, cunning as a savage pitted 
> against the wilderness,
>Bareheaded,
>Shoveling,
>Wrecking,
>Planning,
>Building, breaking, rebuilding,
> Under the smoke, dust all over his mouth, laughing with white teeth,
> Under the terrible burden of destiny laughing as a young man laughs,
> Laughing even as an ignorant fighter laughs who has never lost a battle,
> Bragging and laughing that under his wrist is the pulse, and under his 
> ribs the heart of the people,
>Laughing!
> Laughing the stormy, husky, brawling laughter of Youth, half-naked, 
> sweating, proud to be Hog Butcher, Tool Maker, Stacker of Wheat, Player 
> with Railroads and Freight Handler to the Nation.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 12:46 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Answer that and you'll understand "bleed like a stuck pig" and "high on 
>> the hog." Also apparently "kick the bucket."
>>
>> "Hog butcher for the world ..."
>>
>> Patrick "Yes I looked it up but I had a suspicion" Moore, who has read 
>> Carl Sandburg.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 11:08 AM George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, well do you know what that expression actually means?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 9:39 AM George Schick  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Piaw, what part of the country are you from?  The expression, 
>>>>> "...squeal like a stuck pig..." is something I rarely hear outside of the 
>>>>> Midwest where I live (well, maybe the South or even the Plain states, not 
>>>>> sure).  Seems to me like most folk out there on the West Coast wouldn't 
>>>>> know what you meant by that and would just give you a funny look.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I grew up in Singapore, nowhere near the USA. I think it was an 
>>>> expression I either picked up from reading or from co-workers. Certainly 
>>>> the sounds of disc brakes squealing are common here in the mountain bike 
>>>> parks. I will say that not just disc brakes are guilty of said squealing. 
>>>> Cantilvers and V-brakes are also known to squeal. Sidepulls by contrast do 
>>>> not.
>>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
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>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3edb9078-4b73-41ee-af98-e17f64bb581an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> -

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis special disc edition

[George Schick]

Ah, well do you know what that expression actually means?


On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 12:01:03 PM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 9:39 AM George Schick  wrote:
>
>> Piaw, what part of the country are you from?  The expression, "...squeal 
>> like a stuck pig..." is something I rarely hear outside of the Midwest 
>> where I live (well, maybe the South or even the Plain states, not sure).  
>> Seems to me like most folk out there on the West Coast wouldn't know what 
>> you meant by that and would just give you a funny look.
>>
>
> I grew up in Singapore, nowhere near the USA. I think it was an expression 
> I either picked up from reading or from co-workers. Certainly the sounds of 
> disc brakes squealing are common here in the mountain bike parks. I will 
> say that not just disc brakes are guilty of said squealing. Cantilvers and 
> V-brakes are also known to squeal. Sidepulls by contrast do not.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis special disc edition

[George Schick]

Piaw, what part of the country are you from?  The expression, "...squeal 
like a stuck pig..." is something I rarely hear outside of the Midwest 
where I live (well, maybe the South or even the Plain states, not sure).  
Seems to me like most folk out there on the West Coast wouldn't know what 
you meant by that and would just give you a funny look.

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 11:20:26 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 1:14:10 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> George: I daresay Grant would balk at this conversion. And I can 
> understand his allegiance to rim brakes; of all the kinds of brakes, as far 
> as I can tell, rim brakes give the biggest return in effectiveness 
> (strength, modulation, time between fettling) with the greatest simplicity 
> and ease of setup. And I can understand someone choosing a hybrid front 
> disc/rear rim brake system.
>
>
> Grant's approval shouldn't matter. What I'm curious about is how the bike 
> performs under hard braking. My understanding is that disc brakes demand 
> much beefier dropouts and forks, and whether the disc brake won't cause 
> problems with super skinny fork blades that Rivendell uses because the 
> assumption is that you'll be using rim brakes. Any approval or "street 
> creds" should always be secondary to safety concerns.
>
> I use rim brakes because I never found disc brakes that didn't squeal like 
> a stuck pig under hard braking conditions. Despite all my attempts I've 
> only managed to wear out rims from braking in muddy conditions exactly 
> once, and that was on a 1993 Bridgestone MB-3 that was treated like a 
> submersible (the bike shop used that as an excuse not to warranty the BB 
> after just 3 months of use) and ridden through knee deep rivers --- even 
> then it took me a good 10 years to do so! Granted I live in California, but 
> I also deliberately make it a point to ride my Roadini off road whenever I 
> can in the winter season --- when it's cold and rainy the slowness of a 
> gravel bike no longer bothers me. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RAGBRAI?

[George Schick]

Not to worry, all is not lost.  There's this ride calendar of events in the 
Wolverine 
state: https://lmb.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/RideCal_2023_v5_web.pdf


On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 3:52:06 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Welp, I was so much more excited about this in theory. After reading about 
> the various experiences of damaged luggage, sweltering temps and difficult 
> logistics, I think I’ll find a different ride to do. 
>
> Thanks to everyone who offered their experiences! It was a great thread to 
> read in the dead of a Michigan winter.
> Leah
>
> On Jan 21, 2024, at 12:03 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:
>
> If I were to do it again, I would pay for one of the services where they 
> haul your stuff and set up your tent.  Getting a hotel will likely be 
> nearly impossible, given the number of people attending.  
>
>
> I did RAGBRAI a few years ago and tried bringing my own tent and setting 
> it up at night.  The kids they use to haul luggage from site to site 
> quickly destroyed my bag.  Basically, they pile them in the truck and if I 
> had to guess, they saw my handles and yanked on it to pull it free, but 
> tore the brand new heavy canvas bag instead.  I tried holding it together 
> with a cable lock and tape, but had to give up on that after a few days.  A 
> lot of items I didn't need were tossed, then the rest went into my panniers 
> and I had to haul it myself.  Overall, I was a bit disappointed with the 
> luggage service side of the trip.  
>
> However, the ride itself was great, especially eating dinner with 
> strangers every evening.  
>
> One thing I was happy that I brought was my ultralight cot.  It got me off 
> of the ground, which kept me dry on rainy evenings and cooler on hot days.  
>
> The next trick is to find a way to charge your phone.  I'd make sure you 
> have a power bank available.  
>
> Good luck,
> Matt
>
> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 5:33:07 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Who knows about Bike Film Festival? 
>>
>> I paid for the pass to watch this year’s videos and it was money 
>> well-spent. I got to the RAGBRAI documentary last night. Wow. I had heard 
>> of it but really knew nothing about it and now I would just love to figure 
>> out how to ride it this year. It just looks like such an experience. And 
>> I’ve had very few experiences, because I’m late to the bike adventure scene 
>> AND I’ve been raising kids! But now they are teenagers and might not even 
>> know that I’m gone so maybe I should ride this epic ride!
>>
>> There are a ton of logistics I don’t understand. I think you need a 
>> “charter” to haul your stuff, yes? And to bring you back across the state 
>> after you finish? And if you use these “charters” do they trash your bike 
>> in their racks or will they have something that can handle a a mixte with 
>> fenders? Is there are charter that is more friendly to Riv bikes than the 
>> others?
>>
>> Also, no camping. I’m really hoping to end up in a hotel or some sort of 
>> dwelling. I don’t have any tents, don’t know how to pitch tents and so on. 
>> This may be the thing I can’t plan my way out of, because there are so many 
>> riders moving through tiny host towns.
>>
>> I’ll look up more info tonight after I get my chores done! But it really 
>> is so exciting to imagine riding my bike across a whole state… Also, it’s 
>> Real Winter here in Michigan, so maybe that’s why this hits different.
>>
>> Leah
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis special disc edition

[George Schick]

Patrick - I don't think Grant would approve.  But everyone has their own 
preference.  I have a Surly 1x1 with a disc on the front fork and a linear 
pull on the rear.  The reason for that is because when I first bought it 
and had it set up like that it had a fixed/SS flip-flop hub on the rear 
which would have made a disc option impossible.  My experience with fixed 
was short lived, however, and now I just run a single speed sprocket.  I'm 
not sorry that it worked out that way, though, and I like it the way it is.


On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:51:37 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I think that the custom adaptation is just right; after all, it is an 
> Atlantis. Also, practically, one reason for disc brakes is that they 
> eliminate rim scouring -- recall a 20 mile ride on my Joe Starck custom Riv 
> Road gofast where I got caught in the rain on the return; even ~10 miles 
> was enough for at least light scouring on the front (single front caliper 
> brake) rim as grit in water splashed onto the rims. (Discs also allow very 
> light rims to be used if that's of interest.)
>
> But if I were to customize an Atlantis with discs, I'd want it done 
> symmetrically and right.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 1:46 PM Brenton Eastman  
> wrote:
>
>> [I'm curious why you didn't just replace the fork with a disc mount 
>> option and leave the rear a canti/linear pull brake?]
>>
>> While an exploratory project like this might not be the quickest or most 
>> logical route, it results in a very unique ride! 
>>
>> There are probably lugged frame+forks out there with Atlantis geometry 
>> available to buy+build, but where's the fun in that?
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Atlantis special disc edition

[George Schick]

I'm curious why you didn't just replace the fork with a disc mount option 
and leave the rear a canti/linear pull brake?


On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 12:33:50 PM UTC-6 milesh...@gmail.com wrote:

> I picked up this frameset and extras from Bingo a couple months here and 
> wanted to share with y'all the final (ha!) build. Some parts I had laying 
> around or poached from other bikes (the Hunt wheelset, the Woodchipper bars 
> and Gevenalle shifters), though the drivetrain was a pretty specific vision 
> of a '90's friction-friendly wide-range 3x10. And it's a disc-modified 
> frame and aftermarket fork so I had to make it a disc brake build with the 
> TRP Spyres.
>
> Yeah it's an odd one. The owner of my LBS said I had one foot in hell 
> building it up. It's smooth as hell at least. I told myself I wouldn't 
> hesitate if the right Atlantis popped up on this group, and lo and behold 
> one did.
>
> The dog isn't mine, it and its friend live near Mission San Juan in south 
> San Antonio and they were happy to follow me and my wife for a bit on the 
> mission trail.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Jewelry for my Platypus

[George Schick]

Careful, Bill. You'll wind up in the same dog house I'm in.  Would you 
prefer a duplex or the upper level of a town house?


On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 6:23:03 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Hi Paul?  It's me, Leah.  Listen, I just mailed you my Nitto rack struts 
> and Chris King headset cups.  They just aren't cutting it being aluminum 
> and silver.  Could you be a lamb and
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 1:18:52 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> I finally got the call to pick up the racing Platypus today! I don’t 
>> think the photos I took can capture how great the Paul stuff looks. The 
>> mechanics all swooned as the bike was wheeled out to the showroom. It just 
>> looks like it was meant to have these brakes and in this rose color.
>>
>> [image: image0.jpeg][image: image1.jpeg][image: image2.jpeg][image: 
>> image3.jpeg][image: image4.jpeg][image: image5.jpeg][image: 
>> image6.jpeg][image: 
>> image7.jpeg][image: image8.jpeg][image: image9.jpeg][image: 
>> image10.jpeg][image: 
>> image11.jpeg][image: image12.jpeg][image: image13.jpeg][image: 
>> image14.jpeg][image: image15.jpeg]
>>
>> On Jan 15, 2024, at 11:41 PM, Brenton Eastman  
>> wrote:
>>
>> the pencil gifting warms my heart!! thanks for sharing
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, January 14, 2024 at 1:38:46 PM UTC-8 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Love it!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 4:10:31 PM UTC-5 Dorothy C wrote:
>>>
 Congratulations Leah. Now you have a one of a kind brake set on a 
 custom color Platy. 

 On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:10:51 PM UTC-8 krhe...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> @Leah -
>
> I am certain with your new anodized bicycle parts will make you smile 
> loudly with a lot of joy making you go faster than ever before.
>
> Enjoy !
>
> Kim Hetzel enjoying my blue 52cm Clem with a lot of joy and smiles. 
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 3:40:37 PM UTC-8 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> I had the pleasure to meet and converse with Paul at the Philly Bike 
>> Expo. His approachability, perspective and overall friendliness adds to 
>> the 
>> MUSA points and makes me a fan of his parts any time I can use them. I 
>> think I'm dearly holding on to my orange Rambouillet because of the 
>> center 
>> bolt Racer brakes I added years ago to make room for more fender and 
>> tire.
>>
>> Name that bike "Varod". 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham 
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 8:28:30 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I have never had Paul anything. I’ve had whatever brakes and levers 
>>> came with my bikes and didn’t think any more about it. I did get my VO 
>>> brake levers anodized, but that batch of rose pink ano faded freakishly 
>>> fast and everything was silver 4 months later. 
>>>
>>> But I’m giving it another chance. Everyone talks about Paul, and 
>>> Paul sometimes offers their parts in pretty, anodized colors, but 
>>> currently, they do not. I emailed the company, asking if they happened 
>>> to 
>>> have any of their pink levers laying around that they would be willing 
>>> to 
>>> sell me. I got an email back from Paul, like THE Paul, who directed me 
>>> to 
>>> an employee I won’t name here. He and I got in contact and he was so 
>>> fun, 
>>> right from the start. We chatted and he looked at my bikes (I sent him 
>>> my 
>>> pics via email) and we made a plan. 
>>>
>>> We colored it all. 
>>>
>>> The bolts, the brake body, the levers, the barrel adjustors ALL of 
>>> it. 
>>>
>>> The parts came in 3 boxes, plus one extra little envelope. The 
>>> envelope had a small personalized gift from my new friend at Paul, just 
>>> because, with a handwritten note in the prettiest handwriting I’ve ever 
>>> seen. Swoon! I opened the first box and it was wrapped like origami 
>>> inside. 
>>> I uncovered the first gorgeous pieces and the breath left my body. So 
>>> beautiful. Quality even a novice can’t miss. Just what I wanted. Rich, 
>>> rose 
>>> color. 
>>>
>>> I would need to be with bike people to get the full joy out of this 
>>> experience. My bike shop knows about Paul Components. A blizzard is on 
>>> its 
>>> way to Michigan and I knew my shop would not be busy. I put the pieces 
>>> back 
>>> in the box, loaded the boxes and my bike in the van and drove to the 
>>> shop. 
>>> I came in and there were 4 mechanics and zero customers. “Guys!” I 
>>> said, “I 
>>> have a fun project for us to do, and I can’t do it without you! Who 
>>> wants 
>>> to see what is in these boxes?” 
>>>
>>> So there we were on company time, hovering over these immaculate 
>>> little parcels, oohing and aahhing. There was extra swag in there, 
>>> stuff I 

[RBW] Re: RAGBRAI?

[George Schick]

Joe - I get your point. I rode in a couple of Hotter'n Hell rides in North 
Texas back in '95 and '96 just "for the hell of it" so to speak.  But that 
was when I was living in the DFW area at the time so it was less than a 100 
mile drive to Wichita Falls.  I'm older and more crusty now some 30 years 
later and look back at these kinds of things through a different lens. So I 
shut my mouth for now. To each his own. Best regards Ralph.


On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 7:19:12 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I'm not sure why we would question why someone would want to do a well 
> known ride after seeing a film about it. She wants to do it because it's 
> interesting to her. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 5:02:11 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> Not sure why you'd want to go through the trouble to travel all the way 
>> over to the Western end of Iowa for this ride particular ride given the 
>> distance to get there, the logistics, accommodation issues and the sheer 
>> mass of riders (some of whom seem to like to stop at every bar along a 
>> portion of a daily route until they're so inebriated that they crash into 
>> trees, etc., vehicles that have run over cyclists in sleeping bags, etc.) 
>> just for the notoriety when you could enjoy a multiple number of great 
>> rides right in your own backyard, so to speak.  Have you considered 
>> https://lmb.org/events/ride-calendar/?
>>
>> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 6:47:36 PM UTC-6 R. Alexis wrote:
>>
>>> Leah,
>>>
>>> I took the opportunity to ride the first day of RAGBRAI last summer. I 
>>> live in eastern Nebraska. I happened to be off that weekend, heard it was 
>>> starting that weekend and that it was the 50th anniversary of the ride. Had 
>>> always thought of doing at least the first day, but never took the 
>>> opportunity to look into it and would find out the morning of when local 
>>> news would do reports on it. I took the opportunity. I enjoyed it, even if 
>>> I tried to bite off too much in the process. I think if you are going to do 
>>> the whole thing you best look at the dates and locations and figure out 
>>> hotel/motel stays now. It is not a race, but definitely get conditioned for 
>>> the heat, humidity and hills before hand. My plan was to ride to the second 
>>> to last city location and double back in order to get in a century. I fell 
>>> short of that and wished I would have just rode to the end city and called 
>>> it a day. First day miles to the end city was 77. I estimated I did about 
>>> 64 miles in my attempt to ride back to Sioux City. Sag truck ended up 
>>> taking me to Storm Lake, IA where and I ended calling out a mayday to a 
>>> friend to pick me up and get me back to Sioux City to my car. 
>>>
>>> I rode my Rivendell Mountain because I felt it would be the most 
>>> comfortable with it's Softride suspension stem and Thudbuster Uni-Pivot 
>>> post. The next bike I was considering was the OX Brand Ti Cruiser 29er. Got 
>>> some compliments on the Riv. Ran into some fellow RBW/iBOB members and 
>>> chatted for a bit.  
>>>
>>> The logistics can be much. Deciding if you want to park on the west Iowa 
>>> and get shuttled back after or park in east Iowa and have your 
>>> transportation handy once it is done. Ran into some folks at the first day 
>>> stop. One gal had threw in the towel after the first 5 or so miles. She 
>>> ended up hitching a ride to the final to retrieve her vehicle so her and 
>>> the rest of her group could could use it for camping purposes the rest of 
>>> the ride. 
>>>
>>> Amtrak does run through the state out of Chicago going to California, 
>>> The Omaha station will probably be the closest one the start location. One 
>>> of the folks I chatted with said she had a friend that took Amtrak to Omaha 
>>> and rode from Omaha to Sioux City to start the ride. 
>>>
>>> Good luck with getting things figured out. 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Reginald Alexis 
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 5:33:07 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Who knows about Bike Film Festival? 
>>>>
>>>> I paid for the pass to watch this year’s videos and it was money 
>>>> well-spent. I got to the RAGBRAI documentary last night. Wow. I had heard 
>>>> of it but really knew nothing about it and now I would just love to figure 
>>>> out how to ride it this year. It ju

[RBW] Re: RAGBRAI?

[George Schick]

Not sure why you'd want to go through the trouble to travel all the way 
over to the Western end of Iowa for this ride particular ride given the 
distance to get there, the logistics, accommodation issues and the sheer 
mass of riders (some of whom seem to like to stop at every bar along a 
portion of a daily route until they're so inebriated that they crash into 
trees, etc., vehicles that have run over cyclists in sleeping bags, etc.) 
just for the notoriety when you could enjoy a multiple number of great 
rides right in your own backyard, so to speak.  Have you considered 
https://lmb.org/events/ride-calendar/?

On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 6:47:36 PM UTC-6 R. Alexis wrote:

> Leah,
>
> I took the opportunity to ride the first day of RAGBRAI last summer. I 
> live in eastern Nebraska. I happened to be off that weekend, heard it was 
> starting that weekend and that it was the 50th anniversary of the ride. Had 
> always thought of doing at least the first day, but never took the 
> opportunity to look into it and would find out the morning of when local 
> news would do reports on it. I took the opportunity. I enjoyed it, even if 
> I tried to bite off too much in the process. I think if you are going to do 
> the whole thing you best look at the dates and locations and figure out 
> hotel/motel stays now. It is not a race, but definitely get conditioned for 
> the heat, humidity and hills before hand. My plan was to ride to the second 
> to last city location and double back in order to get in a century. I fell 
> short of that and wished I would have just rode to the end city and called 
> it a day. First day miles to the end city was 77. I estimated I did about 
> 64 miles in my attempt to ride back to Sioux City. Sag truck ended up 
> taking me to Storm Lake, IA where and I ended calling out a mayday to a 
> friend to pick me up and get me back to Sioux City to my car. 
>
> I rode my Rivendell Mountain because I felt it would be the most 
> comfortable with it's Softride suspension stem and Thudbuster Uni-Pivot 
> post. The next bike I was considering was the OX Brand Ti Cruiser 29er. Got 
> some compliments on the Riv. Ran into some fellow RBW/iBOB members and 
> chatted for a bit.  
>
> The logistics can be much. Deciding if you want to park on the west Iowa 
> and get shuttled back after or park in east Iowa and have your 
> transportation handy once it is done. Ran into some folks at the first day 
> stop. One gal had threw in the towel after the first 5 or so miles. She 
> ended up hitching a ride to the final to retrieve her vehicle so her and 
> the rest of her group could could use it for camping purposes the rest of 
> the ride. 
>
> Amtrak does run through the state out of Chicago going to California, The 
> Omaha station will probably be the closest one the start location. One of 
> the folks I chatted with said she had a friend that took Amtrak to Omaha 
> and rode from Omaha to Sioux City to start the ride. 
>
> Good luck with getting things figured out. 
>
> Thanks,
>
> Reginald Alexis 
>
> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 5:33:07 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Who knows about Bike Film Festival? 
>>
>> I paid for the pass to watch this year’s videos and it was money 
>> well-spent. I got to the RAGBRAI documentary last night. Wow. I had heard 
>> of it but really knew nothing about it and now I would just love to figure 
>> out how to ride it this year. It just looks like such an experience. And 
>> I’ve had very few experiences, because I’m late to the bike adventure scene 
>> AND I’ve been raising kids! But now they are teenagers and might not even 
>> know that I’m gone so maybe I should ride this epic ride!
>>
>> There are a ton of logistics I don’t understand. I think you need a 
>> “charter” to haul your stuff, yes? And to bring you back across the state 
>> after you finish? And if you use these “charters” do they trash your bike 
>> in their racks or will they have something that can handle a a mixte with 
>> fenders? Is there are charter that is more friendly to Riv bikes than the 
>> others?
>>
>> Also, no camping. I’m really hoping to end up in a hotel or some sort of 
>> dwelling. I don’t have any tents, don’t know how to pitch tents and so on. 
>> This may be the thing I can’t plan my way out of, because there are so many 
>> riders moving through tiny host towns.
>>
>> I’ll look up more info tonight after I get my chores done! But it really 
>> is so exciting to imagine riding my bike across a whole state… Also, it’s 
>> Real Winter here in Michigan, so maybe that’s why this hits different.
>>
>> Leah
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New Jewelry for my Platypus

[George Schick]

Hopefully you took the bike and the brake parts to that good bike shop over 
there this time where they know what they're doing, not the one that you 
tried once and they lost some of your parts.

On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 11:07:50 AM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Marc - my thoughts, too! I know if will fade a little bit over time, but 
> should not be so severe.
>
> Minh, no, these are a new and full set that Paul sent to the anodizer for 
> me! I did pay extra for that, but it was a nominal fee, I thought. They 
> don’t usually do the entire brake, usually levers and barrel adjustors, I 
> think, but we got wild and decided to do the whole kit. We just have to be 
> careful setting them up, but then it should be fine and shouldn’t mark up 
> the posts.
>
> On Jan 12, 2024, at 11:58 AM, Minh  wrote:
>
> pretty cool, so they did not have fully made parts but were able to sell 
> you a box of partial parts to mix and match your own?  i"m guessing this is 
> a little too labor intensive to make a regular thing but very nice of them 
> to still be able to do this. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 11:55:49 AM UTC-5 Marc Irwin wrote:
>
>> If Paul did the anodizing, this time it will be right!
>>
>> Marc
>>
>> On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 8:28:30 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I have never had Paul anything. I’ve had whatever brakes and levers came 
>>> with my bikes and didn’t think any more about it. I did get my VO brake 
>>> levers anodized, but that batch of rose pink ano faded freakishly fast and 
>>> everything was silver 4 months later. 
>>>
>>> But I’m giving it another chance. Everyone talks about Paul, and Paul 
>>> sometimes offers their parts in pretty, anodized colors, but currently, 
>>> they do not. I emailed the company, asking if they happened to have any of 
>>> their pink levers laying around that they would be willing to sell me. I 
>>> got an email back from Paul, like THE Paul, who directed me to an employee 
>>> I won’t name here. He and I got in contact and he was so fun, right from 
>>> the start. We chatted and he looked at my bikes (I sent him my pics via 
>>> email) and we made a plan. 
>>>
>>> We colored it all. 
>>>
>>> The bolts, the brake body, the levers, the barrel adjustors ALL of it. 
>>>
>>> The parts came in 3 boxes, plus one extra little envelope. The envelope 
>>> had a small personalized gift from my new friend at Paul, just because, 
>>> with a handwritten note in the prettiest handwriting I’ve ever seen. Swoon! 
>>> I opened the first box and it was wrapped like origami inside. I uncovered 
>>> the first gorgeous pieces and the breath left my body. So beautiful. 
>>> Quality even a novice can’t miss. Just what I wanted. Rich, rose color. 
>>>
>>> I would need to be with bike people to get the full joy out of this 
>>> experience. My bike shop knows about Paul Components. A blizzard is on its 
>>> way to Michigan and I knew my shop would not be busy. I put the pieces back 
>>> in the box, loaded the boxes and my bike in the van and drove to the shop. 
>>> I came in and there were 4 mechanics and zero customers. “Guys!” I said, “I 
>>> have a fun project for us to do, and I can’t do it without you! Who wants 
>>> to see what is in these boxes?” 
>>>
>>> So there we were on company time, hovering over these immaculate little 
>>> parcels, oohing and aahhing. There was extra swag in there, stuff I had 
>>> never seen. 
>>>
>>> “What’s this?” I asked, holding up a flat, wooden thing with Paul 
>>> emblems. 
>>>
>>> “It’s a carpenter’s pencil,” said the mechanic. I gave it to him.
>>>
>>> I left the bike with them and I should have it in the next couple/few 
>>> days, depending on how long the blizzard rages for. Not that I’ll get to 
>>> ride and try those beautiful Paul parts out; we are getting up to a foot of 
>>> snow! For now they are only a visual treat. I can’t even imagine how 
>>> enamored I will be when I get to actually USE the brakes. 
>>>
>>> And what nice people. I was not expecting them to be so personable! I 
>>> have heard they are a small operation, but they *are* famous in their 
>>> own right - celebrity machinists, really - yet so kind to a layperson like 
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Here’s the photo I got before the parts shipped. “Whatcha think?” he 
>>> asked. 
>>>
>>> Oh, he knew. He knew he knocked it straight outta the park.
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>>  
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Feeler: ISO extra-small 26er?

[George Schick]

I used to have a wife who was 4' 10" and she was persuaded to jump from 
running into cycling by some friends (something I had tried to get her to 
do unsuccessfully for many years).  She wound up with the smallest CF frame 
size road bike made with 700C wheels and it was an awkward looking and 
handling apparatus.  That frame eventually cracked (surprise!) and I told 
her to scrap it and get a small framed aluminum road bike with 650C 
wheels.  Of course, she resisted until someone else in the local bike club 
made the same recommendation. And it looked and fit proportionally and 
perfectly.

On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 11:46:08 AM UTC-6 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> I'm thinking about getting a new bike for my wife. Currently, she has a 
> Trek FX. She likes it a lot, but I can't help but think it doesn't fit her 
> right. She is 5 feet tall, yet the bike has 700x35 tires. The frame is 
> small but I think it's crazy to have an extra-small bike with the biggest 
> wheel size. Google "Trek FX 13 inch" and look at this ridiculously 
> proportioned bicycle. It looks like a penny-farthing.
>
> I think she would be much more comfortable on a steel 26" wheeled bike. I 
> especially like it because I already own 3 vintage 26" mountain bikes as 
> parts sources. She has expressed interest in getting a lighter bike, more 
> roadish, with drop bars. She really likes the color blue, so I want to get 
> her a blue bike. I spoke with a local custom builder, who loved the idea 
> and quoted me $1800 for a custom frame. 
>
> I've got an eBay notification going for the Surly Long Haul Trucker in 
> extra-small 42cm. This would check all my boxes. 
>
> I was wondering if anyone has experience (or ones they will get rid of 
> cheap) with the smallest of touring bikes: 
> Joe Appaloosa in 46cm
> Atlantis in 47cm?
> Surly Long Haul Trucker or Disc Trucker in 42cm
> Clem Smith / Clementine in 45cm 
> Buy another old Gary Fisher and add drop bars and call it a day? 
> Others???
>
> I'd even consider a 24" wheeled bike for her. Crust bikes made a Romanceur 
> in 24". Salsa makes a 24" gravel bike that looks really nice too.
>
> If anyone has one we could try, we are in NYC.
>
> Thanks! 
>
> Michael 
>

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Re: [RBW] Goals for 2024 (will they be S.M.A.R.T. ?)

[George Schick]

[image: Extra Years.jpg]

On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 8:00:00 AM UTC-6 Bill Schairer wrote:

> My annual goals for the past for the past 7 years, going into the 8th have 
> been Simple, Measurable, and Achievable - except I missed it in 2023 by 
> about 70 miles due to filling a cancellation spot for hernia repair 12/26.  
> I do have my High goal (6,000 miles) vs my Minimum goal (5,000 miles). 2023 
> saw me fall short on both.  I guess the Relevance for me is the belief that 
> the magic drug is exercise.  When my doctor wanted me to start statins I 
> told her I'll use exercise and diet instead.  Like Bill L, I want to 
> maintain my quality of life but I view it more as preventing an untimely 
> end due to unnatural inactivity rather than an extension of life. There is 
> a local guy I follow on Strava who is just a bit younger than my 70 years 
> who did something like 15,000 miles in 2023!!  Much of that on gravel with 
> enormous climbing.  That, for me, would definitely not qualify for Timely.  
> Also, I sometimes wonder if there is a tipping point with respect to 
> Relevance to health where one can get too much exercise?  If so, I somehow 
> think my body would let me know.
>
> I also like to get in at least one week of touring each year. I think I 
> missed 2020 due to COVID, couldn't handle missing again in 2021 due to 
> COVID so went anyway and got COVID on the tour. Oh well.
>
> Prior to these past few years I had no specific goals.  I was pretty 
> strictly a utilitarian cyclist rather than recreational (except for 
> touring).  It was difficult for me to motivate myself to just go out and 
> ride for the sake of riding even though I always enjoyed it.  Having the 
> goal now motivates me to go out, even on most of those days when I really 
> don't feel like it, and I never regret doing so.
>
> Off to slow start in 2024, 1 mile around the neighborhood.  Hoping to get 
> clearance from surgeon on the 9th.  I'm getting antsy...
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 1:11:39 PM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> ‘Vee get too soon oldt und too late schmart’  I love it. Sounds exactly 
>> like some of the things my grandfather used to say.  I may have to make a 
>> plaque for this myself.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 11:08:36 AM UTC-6 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> All worthy goals…but beware the ‘ride your age’ program. I embarked on 
>>> this years ago and found we too quickly reach the point where the math just 
>>> doesn’t look so good…i.e. it’s all backwards. 
>>>
>>> My grandfather, who taught me all I ever needed to know about bicycle 
>>> mechanics, had a goofy plaque over his workbench: ‘Vee get too soon oldt 
>>> und too late schmart’. 
>>>
>>> Jock
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 6:48 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Often we do a goals thread, and there seems to me that there's a schism 
>>>> on how to approach goals.  Some folks have very specific goals: i.e. 
>>>> "average 10 miles a day over the year".  Others enjoy eschewing the 
>>>> specificity: i.e. "have more fun on the bike".
>>>>
>>>> I'm a devotee of S.M.A.R.T. goals, which are (S)simple, (M)easurable, 
>>>> (A)chievable, (R)relevant, (T)imply.  The notion of the S.M.A.R.T. goal 
>>>> has 
>>>> improved my life in several ways and maybe in a way has saved my life. I'm 
>>>> a compulsive person and I'm a numbers guy. I'm going to be compulsive 
>>>> about *something 
>>>> , *so if that something can be achievable and healthy, then that's a 
>>>> good thing.  I've gotten into the habit of setting up tons of tiny 
>>>> S.M.A.R.T. goals, and it sets me up to have a regular pattern of taking 
>>>> W's.  
>>>>
>>>> My big picture goals for 2024 include:
>>>>
>>>> 10,000km ridden
>>>> Summit Mount Diablo 5 times on 5 different bikes
>>>> Put myself in the position to attempt my first 400k brevet
>>>> Complete the Marin Mountains 200k brevet
>>>> Complete 25% of every city in Contra Costa County on Wandrer
>>>> Complete 25% of Marin County on Wandrer
>>>> Ride 55 miles on my 55th birthday and kick off riding my age on my 
>>>> birthday as a regular event
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>
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Re: [RBW] Goals for 2024 (will they be S.M.A.R.T. ?)

[George Schick]

‘Vee get too soon oldt und too late schmart’  I love it. Sounds exactly 
like some of the things my grandfather used to say.  I may have to make a 
plaque for this myself.

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 11:08:36 AM UTC-6 John Dewey wrote:

> All worthy goals…but beware the ‘ride your age’ program. I embarked on 
> this years ago and found we too quickly reach the point where the math just 
> doesn’t look so good…i.e. it’s all backwards. 
>
> My grandfather, who taught me all I ever needed to know about bicycle 
> mechanics, had a goofy plaque over his workbench: ‘Vee get too soon oldt 
> und too late schmart’. 
>
> Jock
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 6:48 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> Often we do a goals thread, and there seems to me that there's a schism 
>> on how to approach goals.  Some folks have very specific goals: i.e. 
>> "average 10 miles a day over the year".  Others enjoy eschewing the 
>> specificity: i.e. "have more fun on the bike".
>>
>> I'm a devotee of S.M.A.R.T. goals, which are (S)simple, (M)easurable, 
>> (A)chievable, (R)relevant, (T)imply.  The notion of the S.M.A.R.T. goal has 
>> improved my life in several ways and maybe in a way has saved my life. I'm 
>> a compulsive person and I'm a numbers guy. I'm going to be compulsive about 
>> *something 
>> , *so if that something can be achievable and healthy, then that's a 
>> good thing.  I've gotten into the habit of setting up tons of tiny 
>> S.M.A.R.T. goals, and it sets me up to have a regular pattern of taking 
>> W's.  
>>
>> My big picture goals for 2024 include:
>>
>> 10,000km ridden
>> Summit Mount Diablo 5 times on 5 different bikes
>> Put myself in the position to attempt my first 400k brevet
>> Complete the Marin Mountains 200k brevet
>> Complete 25% of every city in Contra Costa County on Wandrer
>> Complete 25% of Marin County on Wandrer
>> Ride 55 miles on my 55th birthday and kick off riding my age on my 
>> birthday as a regular event
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8a7e8cfc-b9fe-4990-876c-20c4211b6c44n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Goals for 2024 (will they be S.M.A.R.T. ?)

[George Schick]

The trouble is that too many other things interfere with my biking - yard 
work, home repairs and routine maintenance, auto repair and maintenance, 
and of course, the weather which can be unpredictable, especially in these 
latitudes.  IIRC the last 100 miler I rode was something like 2007, the 
last 100K was maybe a year or two later.  During those years I managed to 
squeeze around 1,500 miles out of the biking season (Spring, Summer, & 
Fall).  Not any more.  I'm lucky to get 500miles a year on both road 
bikes.  I just can't seem to get the time and weather to rack up any more 
than that plus I'm just physically slower than I used to be - my 75th is 
coming up soon.  And, though I hate to bring it up, with the advancing age 
comes a plethora of new medical problems whether physical (muscular, joint, 
or arthritic) or systemic (cardiac, decreasing lung function, or just plain 
fatigue).

Good luck with your goals, I hope you make them.  When I was 55 I was far 
more able to do similar things than I am now.  BTW, I think you meant 
"timely" instead of "timply" in your SMART acronym?


On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 11:22:56 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Jock said "but beware the ‘ride your age’ program. I embarked on this 
> years ago and found we too quickly reach the point where the math just 
> doesn’t look so good…i.e. it’s all backwards."
>
> At what age did you start?  How long did it go?  and when did you decide 
> for yourself that you can no longer do it?  I definitely see riding 100 
> miles on my 100th birthday would be worthy of national news.  80 miles on 
> my 80th also seems a stretch.  70 miles on my 70th I absolutely won't 
> concede unless something bad happens to me, health-wise.  There are TONS of 
> SFRandonneurs riders well into their 70s doing 200k brevets like nothing 
> more than an honest-day's-work.  I want to be like them.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:08:36 AM UTC-8 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> All worthy goals…but beware the ‘ride your age’ program. I embarked on 
>> this years ago and found we too quickly reach the point where the math just 
>> doesn’t look so good…i.e. it’s all backwards. 
>>
>> My grandfather, who taught me all I ever needed to know about bicycle 
>> mechanics, had a goofy plaque over his workbench: ‘Vee get too soon oldt 
>> und too late schmart’. 
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 6:48 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> Often we do a goals thread, and there seems to me that there's a schism 
>>> on how to approach goals.  Some folks have very specific goals: i.e. 
>>> "average 10 miles a day over the year".  Others enjoy eschewing the 
>>> specificity: i.e. "have more fun on the bike".
>>>
>>> I'm a devotee of S.M.A.R.T. goals, which are (S)simple, (M)easurable, 
>>> (A)chievable, (R)relevant, (T)imply.  The notion of the S.M.A.R.T. goal has 
>>> improved my life in several ways and maybe in a way has saved my life. I'm 
>>> a compulsive person and I'm a numbers guy. I'm going to be compulsive about 
>>> *something 
>>> , *so if that something can be achievable and healthy, then that's a 
>>> good thing.  I've gotten into the habit of setting up tons of tiny 
>>> S.M.A.R.T. goals, and it sets me up to have a regular pattern of taking 
>>> W's.  
>>>
>>> My big picture goals for 2024 include:
>>>
>>> 10,000km ridden
>>> Summit Mount Diablo 5 times on 5 different bikes
>>> Put myself in the position to attempt my first 400k brevet
>>> Complete the Marin Mountains 200k brevet
>>> Complete 25% of every city in Contra Costa County on Wandrer
>>> Complete 25% of Marin County on Wandrer
>>> Ride 55 miles on my 55th birthday and kick off riding my age on my 
>>> birthday as a regular event
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8a7e8cfc-b9fe-4990-876c-20c4211b6c44n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Wheel Flop

[George Schick]

I'm struggling to understand what this business of "wheel flop" is all 
about that I've been seeing from critics on various blogs lately.  I looked 
it up on the Web and read some descriptions of it.  But based on these 
comments, do any or all Riv bikes have this characteristic in handling 
based on "front end loading, etc" maybe, not sure?

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[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."

[George Schick]

Seems like a lot of replies in this discussion center around where one does 
most of his/her riding.  If it's mostly start/stop urban streets, then yes 
platform pedals would be safer.  On lightly traveled country roads and bike 
paths, though, clipless would be workable and probably desirable, leg 
joints dependent (unless there are lots of street crossings).

My history goes back to the mid-to-late 60's/early 70's during the 
so-called "bike boom" when the go-to book for everyone was Sloane's "The 
Complete Book of Bicycling."  Sloane heavily endorsed pedal retention - toe 
clips, straps, and shoe cleats back then (because clipless pedals hadn't 
been invented yet) - for serious cycling.  I got hooked on it and moved 
forward with that philosophy in mind.  Younger riders, especially 
Riv-influenced ones, have adopted a different pedaling experience.

One minor bump in the road in recent decades was this "fixie" movement 
adopted mostly by Millennials where a large number of those types would 
have been in big trouble using pedal retention systems.  I've noticed that 
that fad came and went rather quickly.

On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 11:01:39 AM UTC-6 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how 
> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use 
> clipless systems -- and what kind.
>
>
> I started riding bikes in 1968. In 1978 I got my first pair of Detto 
> Pietro shoes. I've been through cleats, Avocets, SPD, MKS Mapstage, Time 
> ATAC, Egg Beater, and now I almost exclusively ride in sneakers (Lems) on 
> flat pedals (mostly Riv's Clem pedals). The most efficient "directly 
> attached to the rear wheel" system I ever felt was a pair of Delrin cleats 
> that Pino Morroni machined for Grant. They snapped perfectly into Campy NR 
> pedals, and you didn't even need a strap unless you really pulled straight 
> up on them. All the systems that "float" were absolutely terrible for me. 
> My heels would rotate to the float limits, creating a large amount of 
> rotational strain on my knees. I found Egg Beaters with zero float cleats 
> to be the best for my needs, and I still have them on my Riv Road, which is 
> set up for fast group riding.  Also, like Wesley, my wife and I find 
> cleated pedals to be very important on the tandem - no more feet flying off 
> the pedals at inopportune moments. I liked having cleated pedals and shoes 
> for the short downtown part of my commute, where I would often need to 
> accelerate hard to keep up with the traffic flow.  Since I retired I 
> haven't had a single time when I've been clipless (meaning no binding 
> system at all!) that I have wished for something holding my feet to the 
> pedals. On the contrary, I am finding that my feet, ankles, knees, and hips 
> are much, much happier, especially on long rides. I love being able to 
> shift my feet forward and back, sometimes on the ball, sometimes the arch, 
> depending on the terrain and the level of effort.
>
> My father-in-law started doing some more recreational biking in his 
> retirement. The shop that sold him a new bike insisted he needed toe clips 
> and straps. At an intersection with some sand on the pavement (April in 
> Wisconsin!) he used his front brake and went down. In trying to pull his 
> foot from the pedal he very badly tore up the ligaments in his knee. 
> Needless to say, when he got back on the bike the next year, I had tossed 
> the clips and straps.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."

[George Schick]

Patrick - my experiences with pedal retention or the lack thereof pretty 
much mirrors yours, almost verbatim.  And I agree that through the years of 
clips and straps with or without cleats, LOOK type clipless, SPD clipless, 
and occasional dip into simple platforms with pins, I've finally settled on 
SPD clipless as well.  And I like the dual sided pedals with an SPD 
retention on one side and plain platform on the other.
*However*, having said all that I would add and agree that I do not like to 
ride without pedal retention (with the exception of one of my bikes that I 
use for running errands in near proximity - that one has platforms).  And 
so...blasphemous as it may sound to the ears of those in Walnut Creek, I 
think pedal retention improves "correct pedaling."  And by that I mean the 
ability to spin better in lower gears, the ability to "dig in" to the pedal 
at the 7 o'clock position of a down-stroke, the ability to stand all the 
way up tough climbs without worry about slipping a foot off a pedal - all 
of which, in my experience is much easier on the knees, the IT band, and 
other leg muscle groups.
OK, I'm ready to duck for cover now...

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 7:44:43 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's 
> out-of-context judgment.
>
> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how 
> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use 
> clipless systems -- and what kind.
>
> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with 
> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on 
> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about 
> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C 
> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd 
> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips 
> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty 
> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson 
> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and 
> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I 
> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb 
> mechanism). 
>
> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes 
> but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the 
> right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my 
> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + 
> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found 
> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than 
> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect.
>
> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to 
> give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my 
> riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and 
> loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain.
>
> But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with 
> them.
>
> Best wishes to all for the Christmas season.
>
> Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Winter exercise switch-up for bike riders

[George Schick]

I bend an elbow and walk the dog.  Oh, and if there's any snow, there's 
shoveling to be done.

On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 10:22:37 AM UTC-6 Tim Bantham wrote:

> I live in Upstate NY, not too far Leah from our friends at Analog Cycles . 
> This translates to lots of snow, long winters and a lot of time off the 
> bike. I do ride indoors on Zwift but the real game changer for me has been 
> yoga. I practice LYT yoga. It was designed by a physical therapist and is 
> rooted in kinesiology. It focuses on  postural alignment, better movement 
> habits and a strong mind body connection.  I've been practicing LYT almost 
> daily for a few years now. I like it so much that I even got my 200 hour 
> teacher certification so I can now teach although I am not current doing 
> so. I do all of this online at home. You can check it out at lytyoga.com. 
> I've never done pilates but I have heard that this type of yoga has a lot 
> of cross over. It has worked very well for me and has helped me build 
> strength, flexibility and mobility! 
>
> Tim
>
> On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 10:22:52 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Mrs Bubba and I signed up at Orange Theory.  It's a small class studio, 
>> and it is expensive, but we're gaming the system a little bit.  It is 
>> definitely aimed at the HIIT thing and focuses on heart rate.  In a 50 
>> minute workout, the target is to get 12 or more splat points, a splat point 
>> is 1 minute in the Orange or Red zone of heart rate.  I share Leah's 
>> appreciation for "just tell me what to do and play the music loud".  Going 
>> along with my wife gives me an accountability buddy.  The gamification of 
>> points and the data-geekery of heart rate scratches a couple of my OCD 
>> itches.  This is my first month, and the program I'm on is just 8 classes a 
>> month.  This is a complement to my cycling rather than a full winter time 
>> substitute.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 6:55:36 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I hope this is not off-topic. If it is, I apologize. 
>>>
>>> Living in Michigan means I park my Platypuses for 3 months or so in the 
>>> winter. I know there are die-hards out there with their studded tires and 
>>> fat bikes but that’s not me. No Platypus means a lot of my workout time has 
>>> been freed up and I need to find ways to stay active in winter. I already 
>>> do strength training and core 6-7 days of the week, year round. I run a 
>>> little. I walk a lot. But I wanted to add in something new and challenging. 
>>> I added TWO things: Pilates and HIIT.
>>>
>>> I have to say that I’m amazed how much I feel Pilates. The muscles I’m 
>>> using in Pilates must never get used in my other workouts. Gluteus medius, 
>>> specifically. I think I have really neglected my hips. I’m also doing some 
>>> physical therapy for my shoulder and knee, and my physical therapist has 
>>> uncovered some of my weaknesses that are, incidentally, being helped with 
>>> Pilates. I think I’m going to keep it in my routine all year. Maybe ditch 
>>> the core workouts, because I think Pilates is more effective.
>>>
>>> Also good is HIIT. I find that 20 minutes is plenty challenging. Lots of 
>>> new moves that make you focus on balance, coordination and isolating muscle 
>>> groups. Can be hard on the knees. Grant has talked at length about short 
>>> bursts of intense exercise being the way. This is that.
>>>
>>> I do all of this in my basement using Apple Fitness, in case anyone was 
>>> wondering how to start. Dirt cheap, very little equipment needed, and a joy 
>>> to follow the lead of the instructors. I love a group exercise class - just 
>>> tell me what to do to make the most of my time and put on some good music 
>>> for the session. I’ll do whatever you say.
>>>
>>> If you park your bike for winter, what do you do to keep up your 
>>> fitness? I’m always looking for new ideas.
>>> Leah
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: 1st world commuting dilemma

[George Schick]

Best bike for commuting; most unlikely to be stolen...

[image: toilet.jpeg]

On Sunday, December 10, 2023 at 7:18:34 AM UTC-6 Josh C wrote:

> Kai - I love that rig!
>
> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 10:56:34 PM UTC-5 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
> wrote:
>
>> Whatever bike you ride, have fun, and use a lot of cables along with a 
>> decent u-lock. I like to make a bungee cord tether/bumper to initially 
>> secure my bike, it prevents the frame from grinding on the pole and acts as 
>> another line of defense/annoyance if and when my lock gets cut off. Here’s 
>> yesterday’s lock up, my Clem prepped to take home two lovely cedar benches 
>> I had saved from the dumpster at my work. Didn’t bring my Rivendell 
>> trailer, suffering the Surly 
>> -Kai
>> [image: IMG_7793_Original.jpeg]
>> Bungee blob
>>
>> [image: IMG_7791_Original.jpeg]
>> CENTRAL PARKing 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 10:07:25 AM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>> I've been leaving my Cheviot locked up with a single Kryptonite mini 
>>> U-lock around the frame in NYC for the past few month since I started 
>>> working there again
>>> [image: 002062 New-U Evolution Mini-5.jpg]
>>> I've got Pitlock skewers on my wheels so I'm not concerned with my kind 
>>> of expensive dynamo wheel set. ...don't even run cable through them.
>>> I should run some sort of permanent cable through my saddle loops to my 
>>> seat stays to prevent my seat post and my 20-year old B68 from being ripped 
>>> offWill do that next.  I think I can get a Pitlock for the seat cluster 
>>> bolt that is keyed the same as my skewers..  *note to call Peter White
>>> Yes, the U-lock can be cut, but I'm not leaving the bike out 
>>> overnight...and I think where I park it , it would be pretty glaring if 
>>> someone showed up with a angle grinder.
>>> Maybe there's a better more secure option for the U-lock.
>>> JS
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 8:53:33 AM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 Armand - Hexlox are a good idea. My locking technique is pretty solid 
 too. Also, not worrying just discussing. It’s not going to keep me up at 
 night it just sort of dawned on me that I was riding a great, but somewhat 
 less enjoyable bike for much of my riding and leaving my favorite bikes at 
 home. I like your “just do it and stop worrying about it” mentality.


 Kim - That’s a good point. I’ll give that one a read too. I liked the 
 thread about not being precious with these bikes. They are both very 
 applicable. 


 Leah - Thanks for chiming in. After starting this thread someone posted 
 to yours about being precious with Rivs and pushed it back to the top. 
 I’ve 
 read through that and it was exactly what I was looking for. You are 
 correct in that Ana and Pam are prime examples. You can add Dorothy in 
 SoCal, we’ve got Cody in Chicago, Patrick in Querque, Josiah in Missoula, 
 Bill in the manager’s parking spot, Luke in San Fran, Armand in LA, and so 
 on riding these things all over and locking ‘em up out in the wild. Count 
 me in. 

 On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 8:32:23 AM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:

> Dorothy - Beautiful bike and thanks for the rec on the Nutfix. I had 
> heard of Hexlox and Pinhead but not these from Abus. Those crafty Germans…
>
>
> I’ve also heard of people putting a ball bearing down in the hex bolt 
> divots with a dab of super glue. I guess the theory is that it can be dug 
> out pretty easily once you're back home but would deter a would-be saddle 
> thief or the like. I’ve never worried much about this personally. 
>
>
> I do a fat U-lock through the rear wheel and frame, then a flex cable 
> through the front wheel. 
>
> On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 8:30:28 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> I love this advice the best. I bought the same Hexlox products as 
>> Armand, and though I’m not in a high-risk area, so far, so good. I 
>> started 
>> a thread on this topic months ago after Grant wrote a post saying that 
>> it’s 
>> such a bummer to a maker when he sees his creation relegated to being an 
>> ornament. (Not that you are doing that, OP, I know you ride your Rivs 
>> other 
>> ways!) All that work Grant poured into making bikes that are comfortable 
>> and capable of life’s daily demands is wasted if the bike is “too nice” 
>> to 
>> be used. He suggests that you ride the bike you love, since that’s what 
>> it’s meant for, but if it really grieves you to lock it up, get a 2nd 
>> Rivendell and be willing. Pam and Ana are some of our best ambassadors 
>> for 
>> this idealogy. Ana rides a *custom* and yet uses it as her daily 
>> driver!
>>
>> I do not have an Air Tag in my bike, however…That is a good idea. 
>> Where should one hide it?
>> Leah
>>
>> On Friday, 

Re: [RBW] Re: NBOD: New Bike Ordered Day! The mythical canti-Roa!

[george schick]

I once had the idea of doing something similar to what Bill is doing - 
sometime back in the 90's IIRC.  I contacted the folks at Waterford to see 
if I could get them to build me a Road Sport (similar to Riv's Roadeo) with 
canti's instead of SP brakes, the main reason being to make it easier to 
mount and remove fenders as conditions varied.  But they wouldn't do it.  
They said if you want a frame with canti's buy an Adventure Cycle (similar 
to Riv's Atlantis).


On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 1:21:06 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Small update for the Sisters: Rick picked up my frame from Riv this week 
> for paint
> Big update for the Sisters: I emailed Rick separately and he agreed to let 
> me drop off my Rene Herse (Honjo) fenders to paint as well.  I'm beyond 
> excited about that.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 6:03:36 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I have already let Leah know, and we will be holding our breath for the 
>> big reveal wherever it shows up first. This is not even our first 
>> conversation about bike colors today, and won't be the last... because 
>> that's how we are. Your RivSisters are waiting!
>>
>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 7:13:08 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I absolutely will be hoping for RivSister approval of my color way.  In 
>>> my convo with Grant, he asked to photograph a number of the projects I've 
>>> been working on or recently completed, like he may Blagh about it, and 
>>> since this Canti-Roa is a relatively unique thing, I was going to give them 
>>> first shot at the actual reveal.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, Ca
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:17:12 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I love seeing someone else's bike dream fulfilled! Congratulations on 
>>>> your new bike day and what color did you paint your bike??! (I 
>>>> promise you all your RivSisters want to know...) 
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 8:19:18 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since starting this thread, I did spring for a fancy new wheel set 
>>>>> that I'm pretty excited about.  I like the people and products at HED, 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> I appreciate their vestigial commitment to rim brakes.  They offer a 
>>>>> premier rim treatment called RA black.  The rim is machined rough, and 
>>>>> then 
>>>>> hard anodized to give a super high friction braking surface.  It's 
>>>>> supposed 
>>>>> to be premier braking, and I'm excited to try it out.  
>>>>>
>>>>> Mocking up the weights of things, I may be able to pull in a full 
>>>>> build at 18.5 pounds without rack and fenders, and maybe (just maybe) at 
>>>>> 19.99lbs with rack and fenders.  We'll see how it turns out...  it will 
>>>>> not 
>>>>> be red. 
>>>>>
>>>>> BL in EC
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-8 Ryan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can hardly wait to see it built up! Long wait but worth it I'm sure 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-6 George Schick wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You gonna stick with the default red/white Roadeo color scheme or 
>>>>>>> choose something else?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 8:45:33 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...and 20 months later, it has arrived!  Rivendell received my 
>>>>>>>> Cantilever Roadeo from Nobilette this week, and it's off to paint.  I 
>>>>>>>> paid 
>>>>>>>> them a visit and gave it a look over.  It looks very nice and I'm 
>>>>>>>> eager to 
>>>>>>>> see it painted, and built up.  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On my visit I had a very nice chat with Grant about various things, 
>>>>>>>> and a few of the familiar old faces were there, so it was a pleasant 
>>>>>>>> visit 
>>>>>>>> all around.  
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>>>>
>>>>&g

Re: [RBW] 1st world commuting dilemma

[George Schick]

I used to do multi-mode commuting before I retired about 18 years ago - 
ride the bike to the station, take train to the city, walk 4-5 blocks to 
the office.  Never worried much about theft out here in the 'burbs while 
working downtown because it was an old early 70's Fuji that I had re-geared 
and converted for commuting.  It was the ideal bike for that - rode well, 
handled well, and was by no means an eye-catcher.

BUT, I'd be way more concerned about salt damage during the Winter months 
(used to live in the Indy area myself and, yes, they use it on the streets 
there in abundance) and riding on hazardous icy slick surfaces than I would 
theft.

BTW, why the classification of your Indy location, or the U.S. for that 
matter, as a 1st World country in particular?  In many ways nowadays it is 
backsliding into 3rd World status.
On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 11:13:15 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Speaking of parking indoors: our priest got tired of me taking the bike 
> into the church (well, it was until a couple of weeks ago a prefab now used 
> as the hall) to park it in the bathroom or library or kitchen, so he gave 
> me a key to the outside utility closet. I had seniority rights as I'd been 
> parking inside since about 1995 and he only arrived in about 2010.
>
> I think he gave me the key after I wheeled my Ken Rogers into the library 
> at the start of a parish council meeting 
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2023 at 10:05 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> First world problem indeed! But I felt it back when I commuted to an 
>> office.
>>
>> First, is there any way you could cajole, plead, whine, insist that your 
>> employer let you park your bike inside? Do you have an office? I was always 
>> able to park the bike in my office (once I had a second office as a garage) 
>> and that solved many problems -- one huge advantage of always working for 
>> smaller organizations.
>>
>> Or what about locking the bike in a parking garage, out of the way of at 
>> least many casual thieves and vandals?
>>
>> But lastly: If I had had to park outside in the a place with "average" 
>> risk of theft, I'd have done 1 of 2 things: 1. get a beater that rides like 
>> my "good" bikes and build it for performance but make it look as ugly and 
>> cheap as I could; or: 2. uglify and simplify (strip as far as practical) 
>> one of my good bikes. and in each case, load it up with locks. I always 
>> commuted on fixed gears so that was already a big step in diminishing 
>> apparent resale value.
>>
>> But even more lastly: if there were no alternative and I had to risk 
>> theft of a $2.5K Clem or ride a bike that didn't feel as good -- I dunno, 
>> I'd be hard pressed to decide what to do.
>>
>> I've attached a (yes, another already) photo of my principal errand bike 
>> (I no longer commute to work) but I do errands and ride to church and other 
>> places on all of my bikes. New: hot-rodded ASC hub!!!
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2023 at 7:49 AM Josh C  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all. I find myself trying to make a decision regarding which bike 
>>> to use as my commuter. 
>>>
>>> Background: I live in Indianapolis and ride my bike for a good chunk of 
>>> my daily needs. I have a short commute to work which is done on bike 90% of 
>>> the time. I usually work from 5:20-ish am to about 6:30 pm 3-4 days a week. 
>>> The only days I don't ride in are if it's pouring rain when I get up, or 
>>> the snow is too deep to get through. I could ride in the rain, and don't 
>>> mind it on the way home, but already get up at 4:30 am and simply don't 
>>> have time to change or mess with it on work days. I'm commuting on a 
>>> Rohloff-equipped Surly Ogre currently and have put less than 1K miles on my 
>>> car this year. We live near downtown and are a short ride to many things 
>>> that we like to do. We often ride to ball games, art exhibits, concerts, 
>>> dinners, drinks...you name it.  
>>>
>>> Dilemma: Now I warned you that this is a 1st world problem, but here 
>>> goes. I have several Riv's and they are my favorite bikes to ride but I 
>>> find myself on the Ogre more often than any other bike. I may accumulate 
>>> more miles on my Rivs, as I ride a Toyo Atlantis as my all-road bike, but I 
>>> do way more trips on the Surly. For some reason, I simply feel more 
>>> comfortable locking up the Surly for 13 hours or outside of a music venue 
>>> downtown than I do a Rivendell. In my mind, the Riv seems like more of a 
>>> target for would-be thieves than the Surly and thus it gets most of the 
>>> day-to-day duty. The thing is that I enjoy riding a Rivendell much more 
>>> than the Surly and, after giving this some thought, had decided to buy a 
>>> Clem when this latest batch of completes was released, and start using it 
>>> for my daily driver. 
>>>
>>> However, after doing some math in my head, and realizing that I'd likely 
>>> change a lot of the Clem complete build, I am thinking that I'd might as 
>>> well 

[RBW] Brakes Pads & Rims

[George Schick]

We were kind of hijacking Bill's new canti-Roa bike post with discussion 
about brakes, pad material, and rims so I decided to start a new one to 
continue.  Bill has stated that in his experience over the years as a 
mechanic he was required to address all kinds of issues from cyclists 
concerning brakes, but nothing about rims.  He also said that the rim 
material was just as important if no more so than brakes or pad material.  
I'm inclined to take his word for it, given his work experience, but I'd 
like to toss a personal episode into the ring:

A number of years ago I bought a set of Tektro SP brakes for an existing 
road bike.  This bike has wheels with Mavic Open Pro rims.  Given the fact 
that those rims, though they are machined, do not have the most optimal 
braking surface.  However, I really had to pull hard on the levers to get 
those Tektro brakes to stop the bike.  So I decided to swap the pads for 
those dubiously touted "salmon" colored pads and braking improved 
dramatically.  The point being that there may be something to the pad 
material after all.

Thoughts? Experiences?

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Re: [RBW] Re: NBOD: New Bike Ordered Day! The mythical canti-Roa!

[George Schick]

Man, I had to dig deeply into the aging memory banks for that one.  I seem 
to recall that I had two sets of wheels I used for the bike that had the 
Record brakes. I believe that one set had Super Champion Arc-en-ciel (sp?) 
tubular rims and another may have had Rigida wired-on's - can't recall the 
model name.  But, as you said in a previous post, these weren't exactly 
made with the most optimal braking surface.

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 11:54:46 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> It's true that single pivot Campy brakes were not super powerful.  How 
> many different sets of rims did you use them with?  When I settled on a 
> favorite rim, I thought the braking was quite good.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 7:37:51 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> Kinda reminds me way back in the day when Campy Record single-pivot SP 
>> brakes were considered to be the best of the best.  It was mainly just name 
>> dropping by people who wanted bikes with a high-end build - they had poor 
>> stopping power.  The people at Campagnolo countered that their brakes were 
>> intended for racers to "modulate speed," not necessarily to provide better 
>> braking.
>>
>> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 8:51:42 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> The build will have a color matched Nobilette stem and a Shimano headset 
>>> that I converted from threaded to threadless in my workshop.  Rene Herse 
>>> cranks, brakes, fenders, front rack and pump will be present.  The wheel 
>>> set is a fancy high tech HED Ardennes RA Black, which is supposed to give 
>>> premier rim braking.  The drivetrain will be Dura Ace 7900 2x10, and I'll 
>>> use an NOS Dura Ace metal seat post.  Whether I run 32, 35 or 38 tires 
>>> remains to be seen and depends on whether I run it with fenders to start. 
>>>  The handlebars will be Nitto Soba Noodles and I'll be using home-modified 
>>> brakelevers.  Whether I run the front rack and fenders will influence 
>>> whether I run a handlebar bag, but if I do, I'll make another copy of a 
>>> home made decaleur that I've been running on two other bikes.  
>>>
>>> So from 10,000 feet, I would rate the BUC index fairly low (Build 
>>> Unconventionality Index).  There's nothing super weird about this build. 
>>>  My homemade headset, decaleur and brakelevers are not off the shelf, but 
>>> neither will they draw attention to themselves.  The biggest area of 
>>> exploration will be the brakes.  Rene Herse Cantilever users claim they are 
>>> the best thing out there.  It's my opinion as a mechanic that when you use 
>>> fairly non-adjustable brakes, your best bet is to have a frame builder 
>>> execute  the build with those brakes in mind, and that's what I've had 
>>> Nobilette do.  Finally, I notice that in the miles of discourse about 
>>> braking, everybody talks about setup, mechanical advantage, and brake pad 
>>> compound (with a bizarre assumption that koolstop salmon is the only 
>>> choice).  Nobody talks about rims.  The rim surface is at least as 
>>> important as the brake pads.  I think people don't talk about it because 
>>> they don't want to consider switching rims, because rims are too expensive 
>>> to switch.  Everybody either says "my braking is sub-optimal, what am I 
>>> missing?" or "my braking is awesome, but I can't explain why, or how you 
>>> can get what I've got".  When I was a shop mechanic, I got a reputation for 
>>> being a brake-guru.  Some of the local racers would only let me work on 
>>> their brake systems.  Still, there's a ton I don't know.  I ponied up for a 
>>> pretty expensive wheel set to see if truly premier rim-braking is something 
>>> one can buy.  I genuinely don't know what the results will be, but it's one 
>>> of the aspects I'm looking forward to.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 6:25:28 AM UTC-8 Patch T wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just tremendous. My ideal Riv road is similar to Bill's ideal Riv road. 
>>>> Can't wait to see how this turns out.
>>>>
>>>> Bill, any further teasers you want to share about the build? 
>>>>
>>>> Patch in NYC, but pretty soon in OAK, CA
>>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: NBOD: New Bike Ordered Day! The mythical canti-Roa!

[George Schick]

Kinda reminds me way back in the day when Campy Record single-pivot SP 
brakes were considered to be the best of the best.  It was mainly just name 
dropping by people who wanted bikes with a high-end build - they had poor 
stopping power.  The people at Campagnolo countered that their brakes were 
intended for racers to "modulate speed," not necessarily to provide better 
braking.

On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 8:51:42 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> The build will have a color matched Nobilette stem and a Shimano headset 
> that I converted from threaded to threadless in my workshop.  Rene Herse 
> cranks, brakes, fenders, front rack and pump will be present.  The wheel 
> set is a fancy high tech HED Ardennes RA Black, which is supposed to give 
> premier rim braking.  The drivetrain will be Dura Ace 7900 2x10, and I'll 
> use an NOS Dura Ace metal seat post.  Whether I run 32, 35 or 38 tires 
> remains to be seen and depends on whether I run it with fenders to start. 
>  The handlebars will be Nitto Soba Noodles and I'll be using home-modified 
> brakelevers.  Whether I run the front rack and fenders will influence 
> whether I run a handlebar bag, but if I do, I'll make another copy of a 
> home made decaleur that I've been running on two other bikes.  
>
> So from 10,000 feet, I would rate the BUC index fairly low (Build 
> Unconventionality Index).  There's nothing super weird about this build. 
>  My homemade headset, decaleur and brakelevers are not off the shelf, but 
> neither will they draw attention to themselves.  The biggest area of 
> exploration will be the brakes.  Rene Herse Cantilever users claim they are 
> the best thing out there.  It's my opinion as a mechanic that when you use 
> fairly non-adjustable brakes, your best bet is to have a frame builder 
> execute  the build with those brakes in mind, and that's what I've had 
> Nobilette do.  Finally, I notice that in the miles of discourse about 
> braking, everybody talks about setup, mechanical advantage, and brake pad 
> compound (with a bizarre assumption that koolstop salmon is the only 
> choice).  Nobody talks about rims.  The rim surface is at least as 
> important as the brake pads.  I think people don't talk about it because 
> they don't want to consider switching rims, because rims are too expensive 
> to switch.  Everybody either says "my braking is sub-optimal, what am I 
> missing?" or "my braking is awesome, but I can't explain why, or how you 
> can get what I've got".  When I was a shop mechanic, I got a reputation for 
> being a brake-guru.  Some of the local racers would only let me work on 
> their brake systems.  Still, there's a ton I don't know.  I ponied up for a 
> pretty expensive wheel set to see if truly premier rim-braking is something 
> one can buy.  I genuinely don't know what the results will be, but it's one 
> of the aspects I'm looking forward to.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, December 4, 2023 at 6:25:28 AM UTC-8 Patch T wrote:
>
>> Just tremendous. My ideal Riv road is similar to Bill's ideal Riv road. 
>> Can't wait to see how this turns out.
>>
>> Bill, any further teasers you want to share about the build? 
>>
>> Patch in NYC, but pretty soon in OAK, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: NBOD: New Bike Ordered Day! The mythical canti-Roa!

[George Schick]

I'd say grind off the lawyer lips now before it gets painted.

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 4:48:57 PM UTC-6 JohnS wrote:

> Hello Bill,
>
> The frame and fork look great! Love being able to see the craftmanship of 
> the lugs and welds with out the paint in the way. It should be wonderful to 
> ride once it's done. As for "lawyer lips", I have to agree that they are 
> not my favorite. Lately my wife and I have been getting out for rides on 
> our 33 year old, custom built Rodriguez tandem, so pre-LL fork drop outs. 
> Just makes it so much easier to remove and install the front wheel. Hard to 
> believe that was the standard for so many years (I know why they are there, 
> no need for anyone to lecture the benefits of them).
>
> JohnS
>
> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 3:56:38 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> It's threadless.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 12:31:27 PM UTC-8 Eamon Nordquist wrote:
>>
>>> Damn, Bill! That's going to be a dream bike. Maybe you've already 
>>> covered this and I missed it, but I'm curious whether you went with a  
>>> threaded or threadless fork?
>>>
>>> Eamon
>>> Seattle
>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 8:06:19 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is the Flickr album where I will post my photos.  
>>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313109003/
>>>>
>>>> There are several shots of the raw frame set in there now.  
>>>>
>>>> BL in EC
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 7:13:08 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I absolutely will be hoping for RivSister approval of my color way. 
>>>>>  In my convo with Grant, he asked to photograph a number of the projects 
>>>>> I've been working on or recently completed, like he may Blagh about it, 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> since this Canti-Roa is a relatively unique thing, I was going to give 
>>>>> them 
>>>>> first shot at the actual reveal.  
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>> El Cerrito, Ca
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:17:12 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I love seeing someone else's bike dream fulfilled! Congratulations on 
>>>>>> your new bike day and what color did you paint your bike??! (I 
>>>>>> promise you all your RivSisters want to know...) 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 8:19:18 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since starting this thread, I did spring for a fancy new wheel set 
>>>>>>> that I'm pretty excited about.  I like the people and products at HED, 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> I appreciate their vestigial commitment to rim brakes.  They offer a 
>>>>>>> premier rim treatment called RA black.  The rim is machined rough, and 
>>>>>>> then 
>>>>>>> hard anodized to give a super high friction braking surface.  It's 
>>>>>>> supposed 
>>>>>>> to be premier braking, and I'm excited to try it out.  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mocking up the weights of things, I may be able to pull in a full 
>>>>>>> build at 18.5 pounds without rack and fenders, and maybe (just maybe) 
>>>>>>> at 
>>>>>>> 19.99lbs with rack and fenders.  We'll see how it turns out...  it will 
>>>>>>> not 
>>>>>>> be red. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BL in EC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 9:23:07 AM UTC-8 Ryan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can hardly wait to see it built up! Long wait but worth it I'm sure 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-6 George Schick 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You gonna stick with the default red/white Roadeo color scheme or 
>>>>>>>>> choose something else?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 8:45:33 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay 
>>>>>>>>&

Re: [RBW] Re: NBOD: New Bike Ordered Day! The mythical canti-Roa!

[George Schick]

>>>>>
>>>>> Toshi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 1:37 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are right that there are gatekeepers.  In this case, the 
>>>>>> gatekeepers are Grant and Mark A.  Grant's main thing is if you buy a 
>>>>>> Roadeo, and they put Roadeo on it, it's got to be a Roadeo.  I asked 
>>>>>> them 
>>>>>> about the concept in principal back in 2020, and I was only like 60/40 
>>>>>> that 
>>>>>> they would say yes, but they said OK at that time.  This week, I gave 
>>>>>> Mark 
>>>>>> A my full list of details, and Mark A cleared all of them, so I paid for 
>>>>>> it.  Now I'll wait and ride the other bikes in the stable...  
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BL in EC
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 1:12:39 PM UTC-7 Mike Godwin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That sounds really neat Bill. I was always under the impression that 
>>>>>>> a canti-roa may not fly with gate keepers at Riv. But since it is a 
>>>>>>> custom 
>>>>>>> from Riv and you are staying with the Riv design principles then it is 
>>>>>>> go. 
>>>>>>> Can't wait to see it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike SLO CA 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 1:01:28 PM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill - sounds like the bottom line is that we basically agree with 
>>>>>>>> each other, though coming at it from slightly different directions.  
>>>>>>>> Best 
>>>>>>>> of luck on your new canti-roa build and be sure to let us all know how 
>>>>>>>> things worked out in the end,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> George
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 2:53:33 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> George Schick said "I'm not sure I quite agree with the 
>>>>>>>>> "skitishness" of a higher BB"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I didn't use the term "skitishness".  I said "nervous" and 
>>>>>>>>> "agile", which I think is equivalent to what you are calling "lively" 
>>>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>>>> "responsive".  We're talking about the same things.  I notice the 
>>>>>>>>> differences, and I like the differences, and I want both bikes in my 
>>>>>>>>> stable.  Neither is better.  On some rides I will pick my cross bike, 
>>>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>>>> on other rides I will pick my road bike.  The difference between the 
>>>>>>>>> two is 
>>>>>>>>> why a road bike and a cross bike are different bikes, to me.  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, April 5, 2022 at 12:42:30 PM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bill - whoa!  Now I can see where you're coming from on this 
>>>>>>>>>> build.  Lots of different things going on here.  And I do understand 
>>>>>>>>>> about 
>>>>>>>>>> the difference between BB heights on a typical cross bike and 
>>>>>>>>>> something 
>>>>>>>>>> like the Roadeo (or the 8cm BB drop on my Ram for that matter).  
>>>>>>>>>> However, 
>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure I quite agree with the "skitishness" of a higher BB.  
>>>>>>>>>> To the 
>>>>>>>>>> point, I have the 54cm Ram and I also have an updated/rebuilt 
>>>>>>>>>> '71/'72 Fuji 
>>>>>>>>>> Finest.  When I carefully place the two side by side I see that 
>>>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Silver2 cranks!

[George Schick]

This is an interesting discussion.  Some years ago I bought one of Riv's 
Sugino triple cranks that they modified into a two-plateau (may I use that 
word nowadays?) "wide/low," replacing the outer chainring with a chain 
guard.  I really like the set up and i works perfectly for one of my bike's 
applications.  So, reading through these threads I had to go take a look at 
the Sugino crank and noticed that it does, indeed, have a chainring bolt 
hidden behind the crank arm.  BUT, I noticed another thing: the smallest 
inner chainring is steel instead of the usual aluminum which got me 
wondering if Sugino used steel for that chainring because it would be less 
likely to wear out and need replacement before the outer chainring(s), 
requiring one to fiddle with that "hidden" bolt. Or if the folks at Riv did 
that...

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 12:16:02 PM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I comprehend that perspective. and it's an evergreen retort to "doing it 
> right".  You should be able to "do it wrong" and still get optimal 
> results.  If there is a "right way" to do it, then it's already 
> disqualified.  I disagree with that perspective, because there's always an 
> even more wrong way to handle any subassembly.  The old saying goes "Idiot 
> proof?  They'll just make a bigger idiot".  
>
> The fact is that 95% of bicycles made in the last half-century with 
> multiple chainrings have bolts of this type.  All of them have an 
> equivalently bad design, right?  This has nothing to do with hidden bolts, 
> or Silver cranks.  It's every thing except after-market two-headed 
> chainring bolts like Wolf Tooth makes.  My XTR M985 cranks also came with a 
> two-headed chainring bolt design.  Folks that hate traditional chainring 
> bolts will be free to use a two-headed design on their Silver or Silver2 
> cranks, so they are golden.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:51:28 AM UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> All of that being necessary is still a sign of bad design. If its not 
>> clear or takes very specific processes to be done correctly then there is a 
>> problem somewhere. I think that problem is 100% the design of that bolt 
>> system. Most 1x bolts are a breeze and require no specific instructions. 
>> And I have swapped chainrings right on the bike with the crankset installed.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 12:39:35 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Most of the time I get away with not having to grab the backside with 
>>> anything. Other times I need a thin flathead screwdriver slotted in there 
>>> and risk scratching the crankarm. I do not like scratching things, those 
>>> hidden arms are a pain in the patooty. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 9:32:19 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, this gets to the heart of it.  If your gripe has anything to do 
 with the tool that fits the backside of a chainring bolt, then in my 
 opinion you are already doing it wrong.  I change out maybe 20 chainrings 
 a 
 year, maybe more, and I go years without touching that tool.  To me there 
 is precisely one use-case for that tool:  when disassembling an old 
 crankset that was set up by somebody who did it wrong.  In order to set 
 things up correctly you don't need that tool.  If things were set up 
 correctly, you don't need that tool to take things apart. 9 out of 10 
 times 
 that I do need to touch that tool, it's because I'm taking apart a used 
 crankset, set up wrong by the factory or the previous owner.  The symptom 
 is that you can rotate the bolt and the nut part rotates right along with 
 it.  You get to this state by setting things up wrong.  

 Here's my set up:

 1.The backside of a chainring bolt (the "nut" part) nestles into a 
 recess on the chainring.  That interface is supposed to stay fixed as the 
 bolt is tightened.  It is supposed to GRAB, not SLIDE.  As such, it should 
 be bone dry and clean.  If in 20 years corrosion makes it stuck, no 
 biggie, 
 whack it out with a rubber mallet.  No grease here!

 2.The threads between the bolt and nut are supposed to slide freely and 
 it's bad if this interface ever binds or rusts.  Grease goes here on the 
 threads (not threadlocker).

 3. The head of the bolt slides against the chainring as it is 
 tightened.  If that interface binds, you might not get it tight enough.  
 This interface should have a tiny bit of grease.  

 4. If the chainring bolt assembly is set up dry-grease-grease, then 
 those three interfaces will grab-slide-slide, and you can tighten the 
 chainring bolt as tightly as you like with no backside wrench.  When you 
 take it back apart, the interfaces still grab-slide-slide and you can 
 disassemble it with no backside wrench.  If/when the backside nut "breaks 
 free" when you are loosening, just press it with 

[RBW] Re: Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[George Schick]

I have done this exact same thing on the local commuter line (METRA) when I 
get tired of riding the limestone paths and want to go to the next county 
West of here to ride on paved rural roads for a change.  And that pic is 
exactly how I secure it, no need to remove anything - just bungee it to the 
side railing.  BUT, there are time of day restrictions because they don't 
want bikes taking up space when the morning or evening commuter rushes 
begin.  Mostly, it's all good.

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 2:13:39 PM UTC-6 Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:

> Hi Roberta!
>
> Yes, that photo was taken from inside an Amtrak train. The front wheel 
> comes off first, then it's just a matter of placing the rear rim onto the 
> hook. It's not a big deal to remove the cable (for non-caliper brakes), and 
> it's not like you're doing it multiple times a day. But if your bike isn't 
> overly long and can fit without removing the wheel, I don't think the train 
> crew really cares.
>
> There are just a few trains on Amtrak's Northeast Corridor that will 
> accept bikes at all, but there are a bunch of commuter lines that also run 
> on the corridor that will take bikes (SEPTA, NJ Transit, MARC, Metro North, 
> MBTA, etc.). Here's a photo of my bike on a typical NJT train, with seating 
> flipped up in the vestibule:
>
> [image: NJT Bike copy.jpg]
>
> Bob
>
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 2:16:47 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:
>
>> I get'cha (i have to let the air out and open the brakes on my Homer to 
>> take off front wheel--very annoying), but my guess is Bob's picture is on 
>> an Amtrak train.  Sometimes, you just don't have a choice and I'd like to 
>> know how to do it.  
>>
>> Bob's description of NJTransit sounds a lot like our newer Philadelphia 
>> commuter trains-- no dedicated bike area, one can improvise.
>>
>> I even took my bikes to a Philadelphia bus depot to get experience 
>> putting them on the bus rack before I actually needed to do it.  The 
>> drivers were quite nice about that.
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 1:47:53 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> Plus, IMHO, having to remove the front wheel on bikes most of the time 
>>> would be a PITA.  First, there's the "lawyer tabs" that require unscrewing 
>>> the QR a bit.  Then, on some bikes equipped with caliper brakes wider tires 
>>> can't get past the brake pads even when the brake release tab is moved, 
>>> requiring some air to be bled out first.  Finally, there may be fender 
>>> contact issues with the front wheel removed if the bike is allowed to sway 
>>> back and forth with out the wheel intact.  I wouldn't want to do it very 
>>> frequently.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 11:43:23 AM UTC-6 Roberta wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, Bob :) , 
>>>>
>>>> How do you hang it from the back wheel?  You take the front wheel off 
>>>> first, then  lift up the back wheel?  I guess the bike is lighter without 
>>>> the front wheel.  I'm not sure I'd have the strength.
>>>>
>>>> When I hang mine from the front wheel, I "pop" the front wheel  up, 
>>>> like a wheelie, roll the bike close to the hook and then just need to lift 
>>>> it up a foot or so to the hook.
>>>>
>>>> Roberta
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 3:35:18 PM UTC-5 Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As Allan noted, how you travel with a bike depends on the type of 
>>>>> storage the train cars have on your particular Amtrak line. 
>>>>>
>>>>> The below photo shows the situation for the Vermonter line that runs 
>>>>> between DC and Vermont. (It appears to be the same style as the Empire 
>>>>> Service trains that Allan rides.) The instructions state that when 
>>>>> hanging 
>>>>> the bike from the rear wheel, the front wheel (and all bags) need to be 
>>>>> removed. When I took the Vermonter to ride in D2R2, I did just that. On 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> return trip, however, the conductor said that I could leave the wheel on 
>>>>> the bike if it fit, and it did fit. The bike I had with me (a Rawland 
>>>>> rSogn), has an end-to-end length of 67" with both wheels on, and since my 
>>>>> 52 Clem H was an end-to-end length of 73", I'm pretty sure a Platypus 
>>>>> would 
>>>>> fit in that vertical space with the front wheel removed.
>>>>>
>>>

[RBW] Re: Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[George Schick]

Plus, IMHO, having to remove the front wheel on bikes most of the time 
would be a PITA.  First, there's the "lawyer tabs" that require unscrewing 
the QR a bit.  Then, on some bikes equipped with caliper brakes wider tires 
can't get past the brake pads even when the brake release tab is moved, 
requiring some air to be bled out first.  Finally, there may be fender 
contact issues with the front wheel removed if the bike is allowed to sway 
back and forth with out the wheel intact.  I wouldn't want to do it very 
frequently.


On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 11:43:23 AM UTC-6 Roberta wrote:

> Hi, Bob :) , 
>
> How do you hang it from the back wheel?  You take the front wheel off 
> first, then  lift up the back wheel?  I guess the bike is lighter without 
> the front wheel.  I'm not sure I'd have the strength.
>
> When I hang mine from the front wheel, I "pop" the front wheel  up, like a 
> wheelie, roll the bike close to the hook and then just need to lift it up a 
> foot or so to the hook.
>
> Roberta
>
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 3:35:18 PM UTC-5 Bob Ehrenbeck wrote:
>
>> As Allan noted, how you travel with a bike depends on the type of storage 
>> the train cars have on your particular Amtrak line. 
>>
>> The below photo shows the situation for the Vermonter line that runs 
>> between DC and Vermont. (It appears to be the same style as the Empire 
>> Service trains that Allan rides.) The instructions state that when hanging 
>> the bike from the rear wheel, the front wheel (and all bags) need to be 
>> removed. When I took the Vermonter to ride in D2R2, I did just that. On the 
>> return trip, however, the conductor said that I could leave the wheel on 
>> the bike if it fit, and it did fit. The bike I had with me (a Rawland 
>> rSogn), has an end-to-end length of 67" with both wheels on, and since my 
>> 52 Clem H was an end-to-end length of 73", I'm pretty sure a Platypus would 
>> fit in that vertical space with the front wheel removed.
>>
>> [image: Vermonter Bike Storage copy 2.jpg]
>>
>>
>> It appears that Amtrak's Blue Water and Wolverine trains have the same 
>> bike carry-on service as the Vermonter, so this should work just fine!
>> https://www.amtrak.com/onboard/bring-your-bicycle-onboard.html
>>
>> Another possible option would be to drive to South Bend, Indiana and get 
>> on the South Shore Line to reach Chicago:
>> https://mysouthshoreline.com
>>
>> But it seems that as there is a construction project going on, they have 
>> temporarily suspended  bringing bikes on board:
>> https://mysouthshoreline.com/plan-your-trip/bikes-on-trains/
>>
>> I regularly take my bikes on NJT trains here in New Jersey, and similar 
>> to what Roberta mentioned, as in most commuter lines there are open spaces 
>> at the ends of each car, or sets you can flip out of the way, to store your 
>> bike; perhaps the South Shore Line has a similar set-up?
>>
>> Bob E
>> Cranford, NJ
>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 1:56:47 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I'm ok with it! 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 10:52:46 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joe, is it OK if we start calling you Ralph Kramden ; )
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 12:39:15 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, bus racks - my area of expertise - are a whole 'nother kettle of 
>>>>> monkeys or whatever the idiom is. I've transported some longish 29er 
>>>>> mountain bikes which barely fit the rack, and one of these days I'm going 
>>>>> to collect a roadside garbage can with one! My Rivendell and any 
>>>>> over-52cm 
>>>>> Clem or Platy would not fit our buses. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 10:28:30 AM UTC-8 Roberta wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> forgot the "OMG" pics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 1:25:30 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I took my 55 Platy to get Amtrak's opinion and they said no to carry 
>>>>>>> on (roll on) service.  All he did was look at the bike.  I know of one 
>>>>>>> 50 
>>>>>>> Platy owner who went by train on a bike tour,  but I don't remember if 
>>>>>>> she 
>>>>>>> brought her Platy or her other bike on her wedding anniversary trip 
>>>>>>> this 
>>>>>>> summer.  Leah mi

[RBW] Re: Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[George Schick]

gt;>>>> damaging 
>>>>>> the frame’s finish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’ve taken both an Yves Gomez and a Trek crit bike. Both have 650b 
>>>>>> wheels. I’ve never actually measured the vertical space afforded by the 
>>>>>> locker but without a front wheel it seemed that there might be another 
>>>>>> 8-10” available; I’ll bring a tape next time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Allan, in snowy Marlboro, Vt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 2:54:13 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Size and weight limit restrictions: 50 lbs. and 70" x 41" x 8.5". 
>>>>>>> Your bike will be approximately 4-5 inches too long for Amtrak. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 10:53:28 PM UTC-8 
>>>>>>> kiziria...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I ordered a 55 Platy in the last presale, was thinking of taking 
>>>>>>>> amtrak to pick it up in person and bring it with me back, Oakland to 
>>>>>>>> LA. 
>>>>>>>> Can someone confirm whether or not the bike will be accepted on the 
>>>>>>>> train 
>>>>>>>> without boxing it up? Please and thank you. Good luck with your 
>>>>>>>> Platycisions Leah! 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 7:13:48 AM UTC-8 Edwin W wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am with George. Once you have more than a certain number of 
>>>>>>>>> bikes (a number you are certain to have opinions about), one of them 
>>>>>>>>> should 
>>>>>>>>> be a folder!
>>>>>>>>> Great for train travel.
>>>>>>>>> Great for guests (they fit all kinds of people).
>>>>>>>>> Great for conversation starter.
>>>>>>>>> Can be stored in a closet, attic, under the stairs, etc...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Edwin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, November 12, 2023 at 8:16:07 AM UTC-6 George Schick 
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I were in your situation I'd be tempted to get a folder.  PBH 
>>>>>>>>>> would not be an issue because they have very long seat posts.  Some 
>>>>>>>>>> models 
>>>>>>>>>> are equipped with more upright bars such as you're used to using.  
>>>>>>>>>> They 
>>>>>>>>>> come with a variety of different types of gearing and ranges.  And, 
>>>>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>>>>> course, they are step-though by definition.  That could be your 
>>>>>>>>>> travel bike 
>>>>>>>>>> and you'd be able to get around any issues that some trains have 
>>>>>>>>>> with 
>>>>>>>>>> carry-on bikes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 3:27:55 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle 
>>>>>>>>>> Ding Ding! wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a question that is probably only going to be academic. 
>>>>>>>>>>> But maybe not. I’ve done crazier things. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, I have an 81 cm PBH. I sized up to the 55 cm Platypus 
>>>>>>>>>>> (PBH range starts at 82 cm) and I love the fit. I adore my bikes. 
>>>>>>>>>>> You can’t 
>>>>>>>>>>> have them, I won’t sell them, don’t even ask. BUT, they are long. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Too long 
>>>>>>>>>>> for buses and for Amtrak. I desperately want to take Amtrak to 
>>>>>>>>>>> Chicago with 
>>>>>>>>>>> my bike for the first time, but my bike is too long. RivSister Kate 
>>>>>>>>>>> says 
>>>>>>>>>>> she can get her 50 cm Platypus on Amtrak if she undoes her V brakes 
>>>>>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>>>>>> lets some air out of her tire. But, I’m 5’6” and I don’t know if I 
>>>>>>>>>>> could 
>>>>>>>>>>> ride that little bike. I don’t have one locally to try.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I’d want the lime olive, which would be very hard to find. 
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, thanks for participating in my thought experiment. That 
>>>>>>>>>>> might be a 
>>>>>>>>>>> real experiment. Probably not. There’s likely a limit to how many 
>>>>>>>>>>> Platys a 
>>>>>>>>>>> girl can have.
>>>>>>>>>>> Leah
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>

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[RBW] Re: Sizing Down? Pocket ‘Pus.

[George Schick]

If I were in your situation I'd be tempted to get a folder.  PBH would not 
be an issue because they have very long seat posts.  Some models are 
equipped with more upright bars such as you're used to using.  They come 
with a variety of different types of gearing and ranges.  And, of course, 
they are step-though by definition.  That could be your travel bike and 
you'd be able to get around any issues that some trains have with carry-on 
bikes.


On Saturday, November 11, 2023 at 3:27:55 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I have a question that is probably only going to be academic. But maybe 
> not. I’ve done crazier things. 
>
> Anyway, I have an 81 cm PBH. I sized up to the 55 cm Platypus (PBH range 
> starts at 82 cm) and I love the fit. I adore my bikes. You can’t have them, 
> I won’t sell them, don’t even ask. BUT, they are long. Too long for buses 
> and for Amtrak. I desperately want to take Amtrak to Chicago with my bike 
> for the first time, but my bike is too long. RivSister Kate says she can 
> get her 50 cm Platypus on Amtrak if she undoes her V brakes and lets some 
> air out of her tire. But, I’m 5’6” and I don’t know if I could ride that 
> little bike. I don’t have one locally to try.
>
> Also, I’d want the lime olive, which would be very hard to find. Anyway, 
> thanks for participating in my thought experiment. That might be a real 
> experiment. Probably not. There’s likely a limit to how many Platys a girl 
> can have.
> Leah
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Places Our Bikes Take Us

[George Schick]

Yeah, I too was wondering where he drives from in order to ride that Little 
Miami River trail.  I used to live down there in some of those parts and am 
curious.


On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 1:59:12 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> So you drive to Cinci, ride around 40 miles, camp for the night then ride 
> back! Heck, I should join you sometime. More like a three hour drive one 
> way for me. But…
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 26, 2023, at 10:09 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Here's a photo from earlier this week. It's not a remote place, or 
> extraordinary by any means, but it's special to me, and for me and my wife. 
> At least once a month, we usually blow off work and drive 1.5 hours to 
> Cincinnati to ride a portion of the Little Miami Scenic Bike Trail. It's 
> part of the larger Ohio to Erie Trail, and is approx. 80 mi long. This is 
> the trail that first introduced me to rail trails, and fostered in me a 
> love of bike camping. We ride this trail to celebrate life events like 
> birthdays and anniversaries, whenever we are feeling sad or restless, or 
> whenever we want to take a nice scenic overnighter. Last month we did our 
> first century together on this trail to celebrate our 23rd anniversary. 
> This past Tuesday was an especially gorgeous Fall day, so we took advantage 
> of the weather and the colors along the trail.
>
> 
>
>
>
>
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>  
> 
> .
> 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Boomerang Rivs

[George Schick]

Are those wild bends on the stays of that Hetchins original?  Almost makes 
it look like it was in some kind of an accident.


On Sunday, October 22, 2023 at 12:14:22 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I said I was on a low-ebb photo documenting...and then went and took a 
> FLURRY of photos.  I spent a solid day in the stand, re-imagining four 
> bikes:
>
> Phase 1: The Rosco Bubble road got a total strip down.  Frame+fork+headset 
> went into a bike box for future re-imagination.  The entire build kit was 
> reabsorbed into the bike-borg inventory.  Some parts received immediate 
> reassignment from the Borg.  Others went into their respective holding tanks
>
> Phase 2: My Bridgestone RB1 got slightly less stripped down.  Its 
> crankset, wheel set and 2x7 friction drivetrain went to the Borg
>
> Phase 3: My Hetchins Magnum Opus was half way through a wooden tubular 
> wheel set conversion.  It got a wood tubular rear wheel and associated cork 
> brake pad conversion.  The friction drivetrain and crankset from the RB1 
> rounded it out.  The Hetchins relinquished its 2x(8of10) indexed drivetrain 
> back to the RB1
>
> Phase 4: The RB1 received its retro-modern 126mm OLD wheel set and 
> 2x(8of10) indexed drivetrain from the Hetchins.  It is in the midst of 
> being re-configured as a late 90s time trial bike.  The aero cockpit is 
> forthcoming.  
>
> Phase 5:  A Vitus 979 is becoming the new city bike that the Rosco Bubbe 
> had been in my stable.  It received the crankset, BB, pedals, chain, and 
> both derailleurs from the Rosco Bubbe.  Today it receives the saddle and 
> brake levers from the 8U883 also.  It will get its wheel set from the RB1 
> above.  
>
> One new build concept is complete on the Hetchins.  The RB1 is rideable 
> but only in a way station for its final (final?) destination.  The Vitus is 
> on its way and may be rideable as soon as tonight.  Who knows when the 
> boomerang Bubbe will get a re-do, but there's a lot here.  I'm watching an 
> eBay auction for the identical frame.  The bidding is at $510 + $160 
> shipping at the moment.  That'll help set the value.  There are a number of 
> ways I could go...
>
> A chaotic but reasonably well documented photo album captures some of the 
> crimes committed in my stand on the morning of Oct 21, 2023:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720312110882
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 12:20:16 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> for some reason I'm on a low-ebb on my tendency to photo document 
>> everythingand I was desperate to get a huge pile of cardboard out to 
>> the recycling center, so I sliced up that box setup rapidly and didn't take 
>> any photos.  :(
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> P.S. the Boomerang Rosco Bubbe road is now completely stripped down and 
>> its build kit is getting redeployed. 
>>
>> On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:51:11 AM UTC-7 Mike Godwin wrote:
>>
>>> Heck Bill, seems like the shipping features are worthy of a photo or two.
>>> 1 boomerang Riv in the stable (Roadeo).
>>>
>>> Mike SLO CA
>>> On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 11:37:39 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I received my second "boomerang Riv" yesterday.  My definition of a 
 "boomerang Riv" is:

 -I bought it from Rivendell
 -I sold it to somebody for whatever reason
 -I bought it back again

 My first boomerang Riv was my Hillborne frame set.  Boomerang Riv #2 is 
 my R05C0 8U883 road complete.  It's the same BLUE 58cm as is on ebay right 
 now.  I'm very pleased to have a liftatube bike back in the stable.  The 
 build kit of this Rosco will get re-absorbed into inventory and will 
 partially find its way on to a very weird upcoming build.  I'm going to 
 develop a new build concept for the Rosco, and now have a frame to 
 handwring over if I decide I need to join the 26.8mm handwringers.  Maybe 
 I'll get my hands on a seat tube reamer and WOW it out to 27.2mm.  

 A very amusing shipping detail was that my boomerang seller had a shop 
 box up the bike.  they put the bike into a "bike box" and then put the 
 bike 
 box into an "e-bike box".  It was double boxed!  It was by far the most 
 bullet proof box jobs I have seen.  

 Pics when there are pics worth showing.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

[George Schick]

Well Patrick, I can only say that I beckon back to a TV broadcast of a 
professional bowling tournament in the early 70's where one of the 
contestants was delivering the ball to the lane with his left leg ending up 
in a more or less vertical stance.  When the play-by-play announcer asked 
the "color announcer" (a former professional bowler) about that kind of 
delivery, the former professional bowler said, "...his youth allows him to 
get away with it..."  Sure enough, that bowler was never again seen on the 
bowling circuit again.

And so it is with this pedaling and seat-back business under discussion 
here:  One's youth might allow one to get away with muscling into fast road 
riding, steep climbs, etc. at a strong rate, but it's not likely to last 
much into one's older years.

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:09:32 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> One more remark. About 20 years ago when I was in my youthful late 40s I 
> happened across a retired man who'd set up a sort of casual bike museum 
> here in ABQ; can't remember his name or the location, but he had all sorts 
> of nice old school road bikes; was it he or was it Dick "Call me Mister" 
> Hallet of erstwhile local World Champion Bicycles who had an actual Reg 
> Harris track bike on display?
>
> At any rate, this man, probably then younger than I am now, but at least 
> early 60s, was a short, slight fellow; perfect spinner type, you'd say. 
> Nope, he had a 56T outer ring on his bike, IIRC, and when I remarked on it 
> he told us with enthusiasm that he liked torquing that monster over at low 
> r's pm.
>
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 5:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> George: Physiologies and psychologies differ considerably among riders. 
>> Me, I *like* standing and torquing up hills; I used to do this when 
>> climbing a local 7-mile hill on a 70" or 75" fixed gear: stand for 
>> half-a-mile-to-a-full-mile, sit for 30 seconds and strain your knees while 
>>  resting your lungs, then repeat. Even now in my decripit old age, I still 
>> prefer to torque at slow r's pm than to get breathless spinning a 
>> no-resistance gear. 
>>
>> Neither is "better" for us recreational riders, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:43 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's 
>>> series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise 
>>> has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical 
>>> warfare" against another planet in their solar system:
>>>
>>>- 
>>>
>>>Spock  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm559/?ref_=tt_ch>: [after 
>>>hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There 
>>>is a certain scientific logic about it.
>>>
>>>Anan 7  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649055/?ref_=tt_ch>: I'm glad 
>>>you approve.
>>>
>>>Spock  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm559/?ref_=tt_ch>: I do *not* 
>>>approve. I *understand*.
>>>- 
>>>
>>>Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method 
>>>of pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, 
>>> it's 
>>>like you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 
>>> 4-story 
>>>walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
>>>- 
>>>
>>>Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on 
>>>the grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a 
>>> smooth 
>>>back and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy 
>>> about 
>>>that!) moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake 
>>> lever 
>>>covers of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from 
>>> side 
>>>to side while climbing.
>>>- 
>>>
>>>'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, 
>>>spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've 
>>>been regulars at gym spin classes.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
>>>> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
>>>> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear.

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

[George Schick]

Also Leah, ever study the difference between slow twitch (weight work out) 
muscles vs. fast twitch (running, fast cadence) muscles during your medical 
education?  There's a big, big difference between the function of these two 
and their applicability to cycling.


On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:43:15 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's 
> series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise 
> has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical 
> warfare" against another planet in their solar system:
>
>- 
>
>Spock  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm559/?ref_=tt_ch>: [after 
>hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There is 
>a certain scientific logic about it.
>
>Anan 7  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649055/?ref_=tt_ch>: I'm glad 
>you approve.
>
>Spock  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm559/?ref_=tt_ch>: I do *not* 
>approve. I *understand*.
>- 
>
>Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method of 
>pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's 
> like 
>you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 4-story 
>walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
>- 
>
>Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the 
>grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back 
>and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about 
> that!) 
>moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers 
>of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side 
>while climbing.
>- 
>
>'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, 
>spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've 
>been regulars at gym spin classes.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
>> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
>> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift 
>> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race 
>> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind 
>> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought 
>> about it.
>>
>> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! 
>> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used 
>> to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus 
>> others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the 
>> highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as 
>> much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes 
>> the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using 
>> the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
>> riding.
>>
>>
>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
>> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
>> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
>> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
>> 2¢.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
>> NJ wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I understand
>>>
>>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>>
>>> Then, You cut 

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

[George Schick]

It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's 
series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise 
has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical 
warfare" against another planet in their solar system:

   - 
   
   Spock  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm559/?ref_=tt_ch>: [after hearing 
   Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There is a certain 
   scientific logic about it.
   
   Anan 7  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0649055/?ref_=tt_ch>: I'm glad you 
   approve.
   
   Spock  <https://www.imdb.com/name/nm559/?ref_=tt_ch>: I do *not* 
   approve. I *understand*.
   - 
   
   Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method of 
   pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's like 
   you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 4-story 
   walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
   - 
   
   Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the 
   grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back 
   and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about that!) 
   moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers 
   of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side 
   while climbing.
   - 
   
   'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, 
   spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've 
   been regulars at gym spin classes.
   
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift 
> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race 
> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind 
> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought 
> about it.
>
> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! 
> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
> it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
> in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
> or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
> previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
> saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
> leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
> riding.
>
>
> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
> 2¢.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Ok, I understand
>>
>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>
>> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
>> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but 
>> is OK now.
>>
>> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an 
>> Acceptable position..
>>
>> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
>> on the Billie:
>> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>>
>>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm 
>> longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.
>> Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where 
>> you

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

[George Schick]

I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
"stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
riding.

Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
2¢.

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Ok, I understand
>
> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>
> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but is 
> OK now.
>
> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an 
> Acceptable position..
>
> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
> on the Billie:
> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>
>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm 
> longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.
> Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where 
> you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 
> 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant 
> be felt..
>
> Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length 
> stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to 
> the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that 
> other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate 
> the Billie bar is the common problem.
>
>
> RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a 
> sweep back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as 
> too short due t9 the bar sweep back.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>  
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 02:45:29 PM EDT, Roberta  
> wrote: 
>
>
> Thanks, John.
>
> I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards 
> the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  
> the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to 
> feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  
>
> I ended in a good position, so like you said " then all is good in life."
>
> Roberta
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
> Roberta
>
> Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD 
> the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long 
> and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, 
> most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  
>
> Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.  
>  Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the 
> opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is 
> within the range of Brooks adjustability.
>
> But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>
> I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
> quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
> far as the rails could take it.  
>
> I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
> saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm 
> unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall 
> ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended 
> up cutting (*"the horror"*) 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her saddle/seatpost 
> would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Style on the bike

[George Schick]

Bill - "class of '87' ??  I never woulda guessed it.  I always figured you 
were an old fart like me - class of '67, who just a few years before the 
end of the .60's wore super-tapered jeans like the millennials a few 
decades or so ago from now wore..


On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 10:53:12 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> "the peg and fold - remember that?! "
>
> I lived that!  I was class of '87.  We all did the peg and fold and had 
> our bangs up high with hairspray like flock of seagulls.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 8:37:28 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Bill, I absolutely employed the 90s tactic of pegging those pants! And 
>> they managed to be bunched up under that Riv band anyway. I did NOT, 
>> however, do the peg and fold - remember that?! 
>>
>> The Aardvark band looks promising, albeit ugly and expensive. I’m 
>> wondering if a stack of regular bands would accomplish the same. We’ll find 
>> out when my Amazon order arrives.
>> L
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 9, 2023, at 11:27 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> Leah
>>
>>
>> Regarding keeping your pants grease free:  Rivendell sells the absolute 
>> best ankle strap for conspicuity. 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/ankle-reflector-rar?_pos=1&_psq=ankle&_ss=e&_v=1.0
>>
>> That legband is lousy for keeping your pants out of the chain.  The far 
>> better ankle band for keeping your pants out of the chain is the Aardvark 
>> Ankle Biters:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/303745533555 Every bike should 
>> have one of these wrapped around the handlebar for easy use.  It also 
>> doubles very well as a parking brake.  
>>
>> Remember how we used to "peg" our jeans or trousers?  That's how you use 
>> an ankle strap.  Take a fold of fabric at your shin, fold it AWAY from the 
>> centerline of the bike and then strap that down with the ankle strap. 
>>  Don't just bunch up your pant leg and let it flare out like a tutu on the 
>> bottom.  That's still going to get into the chain.  Let me know if that's 
>> not clear, and I'll do a photo essay for you.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 7:13:39 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> This might be a thread most of the guys scroll right on past. But where 
>>> are my RivSisters? Are you here for this? Can we talk about fashion on the 
>>> bike?
>>>
>>> The 90s styles have come back this fall, and since the late 90s was my 
>>> era, I am in raptures over here. Cargo pants and wide leg jeans are back, 
>>> and better. High-waisted (instead of low-slung) and in every fabric you 
>>> could dream up. I have thrown myself whole-heartedly onto this band wagon. 
>>> I have a super wide leg denim trouser, a relaxed cargo pant in green, a 
>>> charcoal cargo pant in straight leg, and a black corduroy wide leg trouser. 
>>>
>>> But. Don’t we all know that the absolute zenith for bike style was the 
>>> era of the skinny jean with tall boots? Skinny jeans tucked into tall 
>>> riding boots never got caught in any drivetrains. You never, ever worried 
>>> about getting grease on your pants legs in the skinny jean era. 
>>>
>>> Yesterday I decided to cycle to downtown and meet my husband for lunch. 
>>> I really wanted to wear my new pants but did some hand-wringing over 
>>> getting them dirty. I remembered the reflective ankle strap buried in my 
>>> Saddlesack for such a time as this, slapped it on and rode off. But those 
>>> straps work better in theory than in real life because by the time I got 
>>> home, well…here’s a photo. 
>>>
>>> I thought about this. I don’t want to only dress for the bike. I want to 
>>> have some cultural relevance and not be stuck in outdated clothes (ironic, 
>>> since I’m trying to wear 90s, here) just because they are good for biking. 
>>> My bike gives me freedom, not limits. My husband says, “You’re just going 
>>> to have a grease spot on your pants. Accept it. It’s cute.”
>>>
>>> My other concern is my boots. The spikes on my Spank Oozy pedals will 
>>> mark up the toe of my Red Wing and Frye boots when I use the toe to move 
>>> the pedal to 2:00. I buy shoes that are meant to last, and it does pain me 
>>> that these are getting chewed up. But, I think I’ve decided to accept the 
>>> damage to expensive boots, too. If I don’t, I’ll be stuck in Keens and 
>>> sneakers year-round.
>>>
>>> And then I wondered about all of you. Do you only dress for your bike? 
>>> Do you wear what you want? Do you even care? 
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I did order more ankle straps, figuring more is more. While 
>>> I’m not too distressed about my army green pants getting greasy, I might 
>>> feel differently if the pants were a lighter color. 
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
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>> 

[RBW] Re: Me rummaging through YOUR parts box: single speed freewheels

[George Schick]

Peter - Web investigation reveals that Park now makes an FR-8 BMX freewheel 
extractor with a 25mm 
opening. https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/freewheel-remover-fr-8
I don't know how long this has been on the market, but looks like your 
angst over your SS FW removal could have been eliminated a while ago.  
George


On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:47:40 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> Here's a couple of pic's of the modified BMX freewheel tool in use on a PW 
> hub just to get your salivary glands in motion:
> [image: DSCN0886.JPG]
>
> [image: DSCN0887.JPG]
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 1:24:24 PM UTC-5 divis...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> If Bill's not interested in the modified BMX extractor, I am.
>>
>> I have a Phil + ENO wheel that I've had for about a decade, having bought 
>> it off eBay figuring "what's the big deal? You just use a regular BMX 
>> extractor, get it off the hub, then move on with your life, right?". When 
>> the wheel arrived, I discovered that NOPE! that doesn't work. I couldn't 
>> figure any way to get the freewheel off without wrecking it, which seemed 
>> like a terrible waste. At the time, I emailed the Phil guys, who told me to 
>> bring the wheel down and they'd get the pricy-nice freewheel off without 
>> trashing it; I assume they've modified a BMX extractor (and probably other 
>> extractors as well) to remove miscellaneous freewheels installed on Phil 
>> hubs without sufficient attention paid to axle clearance. Unfortunately, I 
>> never made it down to San Jose before I gave up the car; now a Phil 
>> expedition would be a much bigger task.
>>
>> And so my useful wheel and usable-by-somebody else freewheel have sat 
>> ever since, unused and taking up space.
>>
>> I'd gladly buy the extractor and lend it to my neighbor Bill as needed. 
>> Alternately, he could buy it and lend it to me.
>>
>> Peter Adler
>> in the town just south of Bill's place in El Cerrito, in
>> Berkeley, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 8:59:38 AM UTC-7 George Schick wrote:
>>
>> I may be your man.  I have an 18T White ENO in my parts box that has had 
>> minimal use and I'm unlikely to ever use again.  I also have a BMX 
>> freewheel removal tool on which I had a machinist widen the center hole so 
>> it can fit over a PW hub's axle cap, if you're interested.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Me rummaging through YOUR parts box: single speed freewheels

[George Schick]

I may be your man.  I have an 18T White ENO in my parts box that has had 
minimal use and I'm unlikely to ever use again.  I also have a BMX 
freewheel removal tool on which I had a machinist widen the center hole so 
it can fit over a PW hub's axle cap, if you're interested.
George


On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 10:11:28 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> You are sitting on one or more single speed freewheels.  You'd rather have 
> money than wait for a single speed project to develop.  I may be willing to 
> liberate what you've got.  
>
> I'd consider any size White Industries ENO freewheel.  My offer for a 
> White Industries ENO is $50 plus shipping.  
>
> A generic BMX-like freewheel would need to be compatible with a 3/32" 
> chain, and I would consider any size EXCEPT a 16.  My budget for a generic 
> BMX freewheel would be $10 plus shipping.  
>
> Let me know if you want my money!
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[George Schick]

I have to retract my previous message a bit.  A Web investigation reveals 
that the Surly 1x1 frame is no longer available from the manufacturer.  
Rats!!  This would've been the perfect bike.  Evidently the single-speed 
era has surpassed us now.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:43:29 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
> linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
> combo for campus riding.
> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who 
> are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
> that's my 2¢.
>
> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>
>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with 
>> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>> destination. 
>>
>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, 
>> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on 
>> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but 
>> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that 
>> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these 
>> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>
>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>> Leah
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>
>>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never 
>>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park 
>>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
>>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
>>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
>>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
>>> larger home break in.
>>>
>>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college 
>>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike 
>>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an 
>>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>>
>>> Neal Lerner
>>> Brookline MA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mack

[RBW] Re: A College Clem

[George Schick]

I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I were 
going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a Surly 
1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 4130 
chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with a 
single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and use 
it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  I'm 
using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a Shimano 
17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around campus).  
You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I would not 
recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an overloaded 
bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with linear-pull F 
brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, though, so you'd 
need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right bars to fit it 
(I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy mounting of the 
bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and tire combination 
you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs with 28mm rims and 
60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect combo for campus 
riding.
A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who 
are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
that's my 2¢.

PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work

On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading 
> every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft 
> - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking, 
> replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike 
> so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with 
> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
> destination. 
>
> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, 
> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on 
> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but 
> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that 
> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these 
> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>
> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance. 
> I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
> Leah
>
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>
>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never 
>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park 
>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
>> larger home break in.
>>
>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college 
>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike 
>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an 
>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>
>> Neal Lerner
>> Brookline MA
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>
>>> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
>>> college commuting bike. 
>>>
>>> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with 
>>> high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes - 
>>> which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front 
>>> of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in 
>>> downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight 
>>> (outside my old office at a bike rack in UVIC). Just the standard back 
>>> wheel lock with cable around the front wheel. Nothing fancy. (no QR seat) 
>>> Never ever ever leave them parked over night. I always avoid dark or hidden 
>>> area's, especially near residence halls or maintenance buildings. Granted - 
>>> some 

[RBW] Re: Tried and liked: Suntour Cyclone pretzel

[George Schick]

This is one of the more interesting posts/threads having to do with bike 
repairs that has come along in awhile (with no intention to downplay the 
unfortunate accident!).  I like the final post about a Helicoil or dropout 
saver recommendation.  My own preference would likely be the Helicoil 
because you have to tap in new larger diameter threads in order to install 
the coil, which seems like it would stabilize the damaged hanger better.  
Having view the dropout saver at the Wheels Mfg. website, I'm not sure how 
well that would work in this case.

On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 1:21:37 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Further ideas: Antonio at Riv suggested getting a Helicoil tool in the 
> M10x1.0 size to repair the bolt hole. Brian Chapman recommended installing 
> a Wheels Mfg. dropout saver. Either would attempt to repair the bolt hole. 
>
> I'm open to trying either of those fixes as well. 
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 2:17:55 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the replies, everyone. 
>>
>> A few asked about the chain jumping/skipping/slipping. When the chain is 
>> under load it slips or clunks repeatedly. It's kind of like when you're in 
>> the wrong gear and you need to trim the gear to get it right. But no amount 
>> of trimming is fixing the issue. 
>>
>> I've tried three different derailers, same problem. The cassette was new 
>> in summer of 2022 and I haven't ridden in the three big gears enough to 
>> wear out the teeth of the cogs. It's an S-Ride 7s from Rivendell, it's an 
>> 11-32. The crank is the same age, installed last summer. SunXCD crank with 
>> TA Specialites rings, 42/26. I don't see any issues with the wheel (it's 
>> running true) or with worn cassette or chainring teeth. Also no play in the 
>> freehub body. 
>>
>> The elongated hole: It could be the derailer is flexing in the hole, hard 
>> to determine this off the bike. Derailer seems seated when I try to move it 
>> around in my hand, doesn't wobble. 
>>
>> I have *not yet* tried installing a different wheel and cassette. That 
>> will be next. Should have tried that *much* earlier in the process. 
>>
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:57:01 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>
>>> Oops, I just noticed Stephen had already made the point about the 
>>> derailleur possibly wiggling in the hole.  Yes— what Stephen said. 
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote:
>>>
 Even though it’s threading in smoothly, I wonder if that elongated hole 
 is the problem. Wonder if that bolt is moving under tension.  

 I’m not a bike mechanic by any means but I did spring for the Park 
 Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge awhile back and I’m glad.  I have used 
 it 
 on old frames and on a new Riv frame I built up recently.  

 On YouTube, RJ the Bike Guy has a good video on building a homemade 
 dropout alignment gauge, also useful:

 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PsU8IkkFaok

 Jim in Rochester, NY

 On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:08:28 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:

> https://www.jensonusa.com/Wolf-Tooth-Hanger-Alignment-Tool
>
> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 10:41:54 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> Hey Eric,
>>
>> Been loosely following along. Glad you were ok in the accident but 
>> sheesh, what a bummer it did so much damage. Id vote along with others 
>> for 
>> getting a hanger alignment tool, or figuring out how to make one for 
>> yourself. i bought a wolf tooth variety ( i prefer the way it references 
>> to 
>> the hub vs rim) not too long ago and dont regret the investment. I 
>> bought 
>> after knocking my appaloosa over on the drive side. 
>>
>> I will say i am curious too whether there might be something else 
>> going on to cause the skipping.. when my hanger was bent it was only 
>> noticeable that when in my biggest cassette ring the derailer would go 
>> into 
>> the wheel. may depend on what way its bended. I’m curious if the 
>> derailer 
>> may have any wiggle in the elongated hole. have you tried subbing in 
>> another derailer or chain to test the system? 
>>
>> I encourage you to keep trying to solve on your own before reaching 
>> the final solution of frame repair or sending cross country, which would 
>> be 
>> time consuming and expensive. I can’t imagine what antonio or mark would 
>> do 
>> that you or someone more experienced on the east coast couldnt achieve. 
>>
>> -stephen
>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 9:33:06 AM UTC-4 CJ wrote:
>>
>>> Can you elaborate on "the chain skips"? A misaligned derailleur 
>>> hanger will cause shifting to be sub-optimal, but unless the hanger is 
>>> so 
>>> bent that the derailleur is way, way out of whack, it can't make the 
>>> chain 
>>> skip. Skipping chains are caused by worn or 

[RBW] Re: Forks and adjusting headsets

[George Schick]

There's another aspect to adjusting threaded headsets: holding the fork 
stationary while using the two wrenches (one on the bottom of the upper 
stack and the other on the locknut).  Stein Tools sells this device to 
accomplish 
that: https://steintool.com/portfolio-items/fork-stabilizer-tool/.  But 
instead of paying $60 for a specialized tools that gets used only 
occasionally, I just put the front wheel into the fork blades and hold it 
steady with my knees while tightening those headset nuts.  I have what used 
to be called an "Ultimate Rack," now just called a Feedback Sports Rakk 
bike 
stand 
https://feedbacksports.com/products/rakk-bike-stand-black?variant=44392877752618
 
to stabilize the bike so it doesn't tip over. It's close to the same cost 
as the Stein tool, but it can be used much more frequently to hold the bike 
upright while inflating tires, etc.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 12:36:51 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> Adding to Wesley's excellent advice, I've found that applying a thin layer 
> of LocTite "blue" to the threads of the top locknut will help keep it from 
> loosening up over time.
>
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 12:31:23 PM UTC-5 Wesley wrote:
>
>> Oh, and to be more practical: If you can turn the top (lock) nut by hand, 
>> it is not doing anything. I am not sure why the video recommends backing 
>> off the lock nut, but I don't think you should. The "lock" function comes 
>> from tightening that nut until it stretches the steerer. Taken to the 
>> extreme, this will cause the threaded section to be in tension between the 
>> lower and upper nuts until turning either nut in either direction would 
>> feel like "tightening" it. Hence, the nuts are locked. This is how the lock 
>> nuts on loose-bearing hubs work, for instance. You don't need to go to that 
>> extreme on the headset, since the upper bearing doesn't really do anything 
>> other than keep the steerer centered (the bottom bearing carries all the 
>> weight). So just go ahead and turn the lock nut until it is snug 
>> (guesstimating: 15 ft-lbs) and go ride.
>> -W
>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 10:00:56 AM UTC-7 Wesley wrote:
>>
>>> This advice all applies only to threaded forks (all Rivs except Gus and 
>>> tandem):
>>> 1. Use as many spacers as necessary so that the lock nut (top nut) is 
>>> fully engaged with the threads but doesn't bottom out.
>>> 2. Most (or all) threaded forks have a key groove in the steer tube, 
>>> cutting vertically through the threads (it is barely visible at 4:23 in the 
>>> video you linked). A lock washer goes on the stack above the bottom nut 
>>> (which is the top bearing's inner race), with a tab or "key" that fits in 
>>> this groove. As a result, the lock washer cannot spin relative to the steer 
>>> tube. Thus, friction from the spinning of the locknut and spacers above 
>>> this lock washer cannot cause the bottom nut to spin. So that bottom nut 
>>> will stay where you left it, even though you may crank down the top (aka 
>>> lock) nut with just one wrench.
>>> 3. There is an ideal tightness to which you will set the bearing. But 
>>> the lock nut works by stretching the steel of the steer tube (just a tiny 
>>> bit!) until the threads don't engage the bottom nut (this is why the bottom 
>>> nut doesn't work loose over rough terrain). Stretching the steer tube 
>>> elongates it, so the bearings get looser. Therefore, you must adjust the 
>>> bearing to be too tight before the locknut goes on, so that the stretching 
>>> brings the bearing to ideal tightness. Accomplishing this requires a feel 
>>> that develops over time. Or you could just get a sealed-bearing headset, 
>>> which allow much more leeway in bearing adjustment without feeling loose or 
>>> tight (because a sealed bearing headset squeezes the bearing races, not the 
>>> balls.)
>>>
>>> Hope this helps!
>>> -Wes
>>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:33:48 AM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>>>
>>>> There was a conversation on the Roadini thread 
>>>> <https://groups.google.com/u/5/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/tAas6urcOwg> about 
>>>> adjusting the headset after fork removal.  This is something I've wondered 
>>>> for a while - some say you need to wrenches others one, my experience is 
>>>> if 
>>>> I tighten and back a bit I can move the nut with my hand.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have a solid explanation of how it's done? When installing 
>>>> one of my forks on a new bike I had found this video  
>>>

[RBW] Re: Forks and adjusting headsets

[George Schick]

Adding to Wesley's excellent advice, I've found that applying a thin layer 
of LocTite "blue" to the threads of the top locknut will help keep it from 
loosening up over time.

On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 12:31:23 PM UTC-5 Wesley wrote:

> Oh, and to be more practical: If you can turn the top (lock) nut by hand, 
> it is not doing anything. I am not sure why the video recommends backing 
> off the lock nut, but I don't think you should. The "lock" function comes 
> from tightening that nut until it stretches the steerer. Taken to the 
> extreme, this will cause the threaded section to be in tension between the 
> lower and upper nuts until turning either nut in either direction would 
> feel like "tightening" it. Hence, the nuts are locked. This is how the lock 
> nuts on loose-bearing hubs work, for instance. You don't need to go to that 
> extreme on the headset, since the upper bearing doesn't really do anything 
> other than keep the steerer centered (the bottom bearing carries all the 
> weight). So just go ahead and turn the lock nut until it is snug 
> (guesstimating: 15 ft-lbs) and go ride.
> -W
> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 10:00:56 AM UTC-7 Wesley wrote:
>
>> This advice all applies only to threaded forks (all Rivs except Gus and 
>> tandem):
>> 1. Use as many spacers as necessary so that the lock nut (top nut) is 
>> fully engaged with the threads but doesn't bottom out.
>> 2. Most (or all) threaded forks have a key groove in the steer tube, 
>> cutting vertically through the threads (it is barely visible at 4:23 in the 
>> video you linked). A lock washer goes on the stack above the bottom nut 
>> (which is the top bearing's inner race), with a tab or "key" that fits in 
>> this groove. As a result, the lock washer cannot spin relative to the steer 
>> tube. Thus, friction from the spinning of the locknut and spacers above 
>> this lock washer cannot cause the bottom nut to spin. So that bottom nut 
>> will stay where you left it, even though you may crank down the top (aka 
>> lock) nut with just one wrench.
>> 3. There is an ideal tightness to which you will set the bearing. But the 
>> lock nut works by stretching the steel of the steer tube (just a tiny bit!) 
>> until the threads don't engage the bottom nut (this is why the bottom nut 
>> doesn't work loose over rough terrain). Stretching the steer tube elongates 
>> it, so the bearings get looser. Therefore, you must adjust the bearing to 
>> be too tight before the locknut goes on, so that the stretching brings the 
>> bearing to ideal tightness. Accomplishing this requires a feel that 
>> develops over time. Or you could just get a sealed-bearing headset, which 
>> allow much more leeway in bearing adjustment without feeling loose or tight 
>> (because a sealed bearing headset squeezes the bearing races, not the 
>> balls.)
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>> -Wes
>> On Tuesday, July 25, 2023 at 8:33:48 AM UTC-7 maxcr wrote:
>>
>>> There was a conversation on the Roadini thread 
>>>  about 
>>> adjusting the headset after fork removal.  This is something I've wondered 
>>> for a while - some say you need to wrenches others one, my experience is if 
>>> I tighten and back a bit I can move the nut with my hand.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a solid explanation of how it's done? When installing 
>>> one of my forks on a new bike I had found this video  
>>> from Rivendell where you can see the 
>>> process but I'm still unsure of how tight I should go? Should I use a 
>>> wrench or is it enough to hand tighten?
>>>
>>> Also, how many spacers should one use when setting up a fork?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Max
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Ride report: Eastern Indiana Cardinal Greenway

[George Schick]

Josh - thanks for sending that photo of the Greenway trailhead.  Clearly, 
it's under the North D Street bridge that connects East Richmond with the 
Northwest side (AKA "the 20th Century bridge) along the "canyons" of the 
Whitewater River. Brings back a lot of memories.  Makes me even more 
interested of traveling down there to ride the trail.
George
On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 7:56:31 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:

> [image: 357113918_649293487236374_4426369373476205792_n.jpg]
>
> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 8:54:41 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Thanks Rick. 
>>
>> I just happened to see this today from Bike Indy. I guess they are 
>> feeling the CG love too.
>>
>> From bike Indy:
>> Have you ever wanted to explore one of Indiana's longest trails? The 
>> Cardinal Greenway extends from Muncie to Richmond. The Cardinal Trail 
>> Century Ride is Saturday July 29, 2023. You don't have to ride a century, 
>> there are various routes that will allow you to explore the distance you 
>> desire.
>> https://cardinalgreenways.org/cardinalcenturyride/ 
>> 
>>
>> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 1:50:49 AM UTC-4 Rick Harries wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the report, Josh. I was on the Cardinal Greenway two years 
>>> ago on a trip from Chicago to DC with my MIT Homer.  I enjoyed Richmond’s 
>>> lively downtown, including a great independent bakery. Lots of off road 
>>> trails on that trip made for really nice time. 
>>>
>>> Rick Harries
>>> Easton, Maryland
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 7:01:17 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 My first attempt at this. The site is a bit old tech. It kept telling 
 me that my post was too long, so I broke it up. May have been the pic 
 size. 
 Sorry for the typo's. I think I got the point across at least. 

 On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:26:35 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> [image: IMG_0476.jpeg][image: IMG_0480.jpeg][image: IMG_0463.jpeg][image: 
> IMG_0465.jpeg]
>
> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:23:16 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_0467.jpeg][image: IMG_0466.jpeg][image: IMG_0464.jpeg]
>> Both of these rides were accomplished on my Atlantis, a 2008 Toyo 61 
>> CM for those that want details. And yes, that’s a sign telling you not 
>> to 
>> drive your horse and buggy on the trail.
>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:20:20 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_0467.jpeg][image: IMG_0481.jpeg][image: IMG_0478.jpeg]
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:18:08 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 So, I went back and wrote the southern portion today. I drove out 
 to Richmond, IN, about an hour or so from Indianapolis on the 
 Ohio/Indiana 
 line, and headed north a little past, Losantville, IN for a total of 
 about 
 60 miles. It was a pleasant ride with at least 3/4 being in the shade 
 of 
 trees along the old Cardinal. I just thought I’d share.

 [image: IMG_0477.jpeg]

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Ride report: Eastern Indiana Cardinal Greenway

[George Schick]

That's a difficult request because I-69 runs pretty much North-to-South in 
the area where it gets even a little bit close to the Cardinal Greenway 
Trail.  The closest access point that I can see would be at Gaston and 
there are no exits off the interstate anywhere near there until you get to 
state road 28. And I don't know where you'd park around there in order to 
ride a bike plus you' have to ride East on SR 28 for a ways before getting 
to the trailhead and I, myself, would not want to do that on that highway 
(narrow, no shoulders).  You'd be better off just going just a little 
further South and taking to SR 332 into Muncie where you could get on the 
Greenway Trail there.  Maybe there's parking places along the train in 
Muncie.

On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 11:16:40 AM UTC-5 Al wrote:

> I'm spending a long weekend in Indy and am planning to take my bike down 
> (I live in Grand Rapids, MI). I'll definitely check check this out as I'll 
> be going right through that area. Anyone recommend a good starting point 
> near I-69?
>
> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 10:00:10 AM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> My buddy Huston and I rode the Cardinal Greenway back in the pre-Pandemic 
>> days. We rode from Richmond to Losantville, and then took rural roads over 
>> to Summit Lake State Park, where we camped for the night. It was a very 
>> well manicured trail, but I don't recall there being much shade back then. 
>> Maybe it has grown up a bit more since then. It was mostly corn on one 
>> side, soybeans on the other the whole way. I'd like to go back and explore 
>> more of the upper section of it.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:27 PM Steve  wrote:
>>
>>> George, I went to school at BSU in the '70s as well.   Wound up in 
>>> Muncie for nearly the entire decade.  Had some good times riding the 
>>> backroads in that area. Some of it was on an old canti-framed Schwinn I 
>>> paid $20 for and built up as a "Little 500" racer; drop bars, coaster 
>>> brake, and a rattle can orange paint job.
>>>
>>>  I remember those long trains pulling coal cars - and getting caught at 
>>> the crossings as they rumbled by. I had no idea though that they were part 
>>> of the whole steel industry centered around Gary. Thanks for sharing a bit 
>>> of the history of the Cardinal. It made me realize that rail trails all 
>>> have a backstory rooted in a changing economy. Interesting!. 
>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 8:48:12 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>>
>>>> I grew up in Richmond and am well aware that the Cardinal Greenway 
>>>> Trail is a rails-to-trails conversion of the old C Railroad that used to 
>>>> haul long coal trains from the mines in SE Kentucky and West Virginia up 
>>>> to 
>>>> the steel mills along the Southwestern Lake Michigan shore.  I attended 
>>>> college at Ball State University in Muncie during the early 70's and often 
>>>> saw those freights along U.S. 35 as I drove that way many times.  But 
>>>> things have changed significantly over the past 4 to 5 decades.  C 
>>>> abandoned that stretch of rail once the steel mill industry moved largely 
>>>> off-shore and the high sulfur coal from those mines was replaced by coal 
>>>> from Western mines that was closer to the surface and had lower sulfur 
>>>> content.  Hence, the abandoned railway is now the Cardinal Greenway.  I 
>>>> haven't lived there in over 50 years and have never ridden the new trail.  
>>>> As I understand it, though, there are certain sections where some land 
>>>> owners have claimed rights from the railroad right-of-way and have caused 
>>>> trail users to detour onto sections of county roads for brief stretches.  
>>>> This is particularly true once one gets North of Muncie. One of these days 
>>>> I may have to drive down there and ride that trail just for the nostalgia.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:01:17 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My first attempt at this. The site is a bit old tech. It kept telling 
>>>>> me that my post was too long, so I broke it up. May have been the pic 
>>>>> size. 
>>>>> Sorry for the typo's. I think I got the point across at least. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:26:35 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> [image: IMG_0476.jpeg][image: IMG_0480.jpeg][image: 
>>>>>> IMG_0463.jpeg][image: 
>>>>>> IMG_0465.jpeg]
>>>>>>
>&

[RBW] Re: Ride report: Eastern Indiana Cardinal Greenway

[George Schick]

I grew up in Richmond and am well aware that the Cardinal Greenway Trail is 
a rails-to-trails conversion of the old C Railroad that used to haul long 
coal trains from the mines in SE Kentucky and West Virginia up to the steel 
mills along the Southwestern Lake Michigan shore.  I attended college at 
Ball State University in Muncie during the early 70's and often saw those 
freights along U.S. 35 as I drove that way many times.  But things have 
changed significantly over the past 4 to 5 decades.  C abandoned that 
stretch of rail once the steel mill industry moved largely off-shore and 
the high sulfur coal from those mines was replaced by coal from Western 
mines that was closer to the surface and had lower sulfur content.  Hence, 
the abandoned railway is now the Cardinal Greenway.  I haven't lived there 
in over 50 years and have never ridden the new trail.  As I understand it, 
though, there are certain sections where some land owners have claimed 
rights from the railroad right-of-way and have caused trail users to detour 
onto sections of county roads for brief stretches.  This is particularly 
true once one gets North of Muncie. One of these days I may have to drive 
down there and ride that trail just for the nostalgia.

On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:01:17 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:

> My first attempt at this. The site is a bit old tech. It kept telling me 
> that my post was too long, so I broke it up. May have been the pic size. 
> Sorry for the typo's. I think I got the point across at least. 
>
> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:26:35 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_0476.jpeg][image: IMG_0480.jpeg][image: IMG_0463.jpeg][image: 
>> IMG_0465.jpeg]
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:23:16 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_0467.jpeg][image: IMG_0466.jpeg][image: IMG_0464.jpeg]
>>> Both of these rides were accomplished on my Atlantis, a 2008 Toyo 61 CM 
>>> for those that want details. And yes, that’s a sign telling you not to 
>>> drive your horse and buggy on the trail.
>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:20:20 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_0467.jpeg][image: IMG_0481.jpeg][image: IMG_0478.jpeg]

 On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 6:18:08 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:

> So, I went back and wrote the southern portion today. I drove out to 
> Richmond, IN, about an hour or so from Indianapolis on the Ohio/Indiana 
> line, and headed north a little past, Losantville, IN for a total of 
> about 
> 60 miles. It was a pleasant ride with at least 3/4 being in the shade of 
> trees along the old Cardinal. I just thought I’d share.
>
> [image: IMG_0477.jpeg]
>


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[RBW] Re: ISO: Silver (or other friction) dowtube shifters

[George Schick]

Clamp on types or attached to brazed on fittings?  I'll need to rummage 
through my parts box to check, but I might have an old pair.  They'd be 
clamp on types, though.
 
On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 4:55:33 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I need some friction downtube shifters and I am not sure its going to stay 
> this way so I am trying to avoid new prices. Anyone have a set of 
> silver/dia-compe/similar DT shifters they are looking to move on?

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[RBW] Re: Chainring Pins

[George Schick]

Rich - thanks for the suggestion to buy an Origin8 chainring from Riv.  I 
did so and it arrived today (quick shipping and great packaging from Riv) 
and I installed and test road it.  It looks like it will solve all my 
shifting problems.  Thanks again!
George


On Monday, July 10, 2023 at 10:28:33 AM UTC-5 RichS wrote:

> George,
>
> If you're friction shifting Rivendell sells chainrings without ramps or 
> pins. I do friction shift and in my experience the Origin8/Vuleta rings 
> work fine.
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/chainring-110-x-46t-12016
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Sunday, July 9, 2023 at 6:26:59 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>
>> George, Drilling out the pins to expose the holes already present won't 
>> matter at all. Those holes are nothing compared to "back in the day" with 
>> the drillium craze !  The 60's weight weenies dream. 
>>
>>
>> http://classiccycleus.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Drilled-out-chainrings-and-crankarms.jpg
>>
>> The pins and ramps are called "shift aides" by manufacturers. It's a 
>> rather self serving thing, that indexed shifting needs "aides" to help move 
>> the chain. Anyone that knows how to friction shift knows they are not 
>> needed. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Chainring Pins

[George Schick]

Anyone know what those "pins" in some chainrings are for?  I had an 
incident while riding today where the pedal suddenly got "stuck" when I 
tried shifting from the larger chainring to the smaller one.  I had to stop 
and when I tried moving the crank either forward or backward the chain 
bunched up between the RD and the chainring.  After examination I 
discovered that a chain link had gotten wedged under one of those 
free-floating pins.  This is the second chainring by the same company that 
I've installed that had those pins.  I also occasionally experience a 
"crunching" sound when starting from a stop position which resulted in a 
chain link broken completely in half.  I'm blaming those pins for that 
problem, too.  Will change anything if I drill them out?

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Re: [RBW] 650b Gravel Bikes?

[George Schick]

Great responses to this post!  Thanks all.  I would have several things to 
say about this "gravel bike" business:  first of all, I agree that it's a 
concept that reminds me of the very early days of mountain biking (what was 
originally called "mountain surfing," IIRC) where someone got ahold of an 
old Schwinn cantilever-framed "clunker," refitted it with gears and rim 
brakes, and went out to ride it.  Things evolved from there into very 
specifically designed and outfitted bikes with shock suspensions, 
linear-pull brakes, etc.  I remember wa-a-a-ay back when I was a little kid 
in the mid-50's my dad had gotten ahold of an old 24" (wheel size) 
cantilever-balloon-tire-equipped Schwinn, repainted it, and gave it to me 
for my birthday.  It was the first bike I learned to ride and I rode it 
everywhere.  We lived in the country back then where there were nothing but 
gravel roads and I would ride it several miles to a gas station to buy 
candy, down the road a piece to play around in a creek, and just about 
every place else.  'Course, I was much lighter back then, but still to me 
it was the original "gravel bike."

Having reviewed the responders' personal experiences and recommendations 
I'd be inclined toward either a Riv Atlantis or a Waterford Adventure cycle 
- either of which could be set up with wide 650B tires.  The Atlantis has 
the advantage of longer chain and seat stays allowing for both wide tires 
and fenders; the Adventure cycle not so much (although using 650B tires on 
it could open up the rear stays area enough to allow fender mounting).  
Thanks again!

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 9:02:50 PM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:

> I looked to 650B as a solution to my particular fit issues for an all road 
> bike the other year. Grant was very frame size dependent in his support of 
> 650B and felt that above a certain size (several below mine) the utility of 
> the wheel size ended its utility. Those considerations are fair for stock 
> geometry. 
>
> The problem for me and my ideal under square (2-3cm) frame dimensioning is 
> that I get into toe overlap with 700c wheels with fatter tires. I wanted 
> broader capacity for rougher road riding and load carrying so 650B was my 
> way to go. I still would rather ride smarter than fasteron unpaved surfaces 
> and 650Bx42 has provided all the envelope I need without tapping my Walter 
> Mitty thoughts.
>
> I made many purchases and gone down bicycle and equipment rabbit holes 
> chasing more "performance" only to find out the lease expensive component 
> of my bike is where the greatest capacity to upgrade resides...me. 
>
> I had my 650B bike built and ride it hundreds of miles off pavement, with 
> fenders, on RH Babyshoe Pass tires set up tubeless on Pacenti Brevet rims, 
> three years so far without reason to look back or second guess the formula. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 8:03:47 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I don’t know about a bike dedicated to 650B in all sizes but some smaller 
>> Rivs come as a 650B and the Susie is 650B… but what is a gravel bike, after 
>> all, but a bike ridden on gravel or hard-pack dirt roads? I would classify 
>> most of the bikes made by Riv as gravel or gravel adjacent. They’ve almost 
>> all got generous tire clearance. The only thing modern gravel bikes have 
>> that Rivs lack are expensive electronics and disc brakes, really…
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 4:47 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog 
>>> lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, 
>>> so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with 
>>> available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed 
>>> something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b7a8ff2c-8657-40c4-845e-a0a3416bed20n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b7a8ff2c-8657-40c4-845e-a0a3416bed20n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>>
>

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[RBW] 650b Gravel Bikes?

[George Schick]

There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog 
lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, 
so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with 
available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed 
something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.

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Re: [RBW] Plush old 531 steel frames (was being precious)

[George Schick]

I, too had a mid-70's Bob Jackson and a late-70' Paramount built with 531 
tubing.  Both were sold due to economic circumstances not long after.  But 
I recall that the Paramount of that era was rather crudely constructed with 
a poorly applied paint job, some mediocre components, and wheels that 
must've been machine-built with way overly tightened spokes that began to 
break soon after purchase.  Can't say much more positive about those frames 
other than that I wish all things had been assembled properly which would 
have allowed me to experience the true 531 ride without any negative 
hassles.

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 3:23:20 PM UTC-5 Mike Godwin wrote:

> Oooh, I have some of those charts too.
>
> I think the 531 magic was also in my 1970s era Bob Jackson, and less so in 
> a 1974 Paramount and late 70s Vent Noir. The BJ did not have a model 
> marquis transfer on the frame other than multiple BJ labels, but, no fender 
> eyelets on the Campy dropouts, a 531 db tubes-stays-fork blade sticker, 
> normal (57 mm) reach brakes, and no braze-ons for cable guides or shift 
> levers. Compared to a Vent Noir of similar era, I sure liked the handling 
> much better. And compared to the Paramount, better handling and lighter. 
> That bike is/was a smooth riding rocket.  Come to think of it, the mid-80s 
> Mercian, which disappeared in the 'ought-8 divorce garage sale. 
>
> Mike SLO CA
>
> On Wednesday, June 21, 2023 at 5:18:40 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> 6:07:06 PM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>
>> One is made of the more unusual “531 Professional” tubeset, which 
>> featured thinner walls for lighter weight than standard 531 tubing.
>>
>> 531 Professional is rumored to be less durable than 531 because of the 
>> thinner walls, but I regularly ride the 531 Pro Singer (built in 1983) 
>> without any problems … and I’m by no means a “light” rider.
>>
>>
>> The durability issue is dent resistance and strength in a crash. If you 
>> don't smash your frame against a bedpost (how my mother wrecked my first 
>> Holdsworth...) you won't have a problem.
>>
>> Attached for some nerdy fun are a couple of charts of tubing specs.
>>
>> [image: TubingChart.jpg][image: ReynoldsTubeGuide.jpg]On Wednesday, June 
>> 21, 2023 at 
>> [image: 531-tubes.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Stolen custom 1995 Rivendell Road Standard (San Francisco)

[George Schick]

Same thing happens here in the Chicagoland area and most of the bikes end 
up at a flea market in a near suburb called Alsip.  The really unfortunate 
thing about events like this is that the cops seem to be either reluctant 
or just plain unwilling to do anything about it.  And that applies both to 
any kind of investigation - even if you've provided them with serial 
numbers which they could use to peruse the flea markets or send to other 
jurisdictions downstate - or just plain watching certain neighborhoods for 
signs of theft activity such as this. There seems to be either an attitude 
that "well, it's just a toy.  We have bigger things to worry about" or just 
plain indifference.  Truly sad.

On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 12:38:50 PM UTC-5 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

> First off, my condolences. My beloved chartreuse Raleigh International was 
> stolen from behind a restaurant in West Berkeley where I was cooking in 
> 1983, and I've never stopped looking for it.
>
> Second, it's worth conducting regular Craigslist searches not only on the 
> Bay Area CL (https://sfbay.craigslist.org), but on the Craigslists in Los 
> Angeles. There's an established stolen bike circuit, that grew up in 
> imitation of the stolen car market: Bicycles stolen by pros in the Bay Area 
> get trucked down to Southern California for resale at flea markets and to 
> the more unscrupulous second-hand dealers, while bikes stolen in the LA 
> basin are trucked up to the Bay Area for equivalent sales. This allows the 
> thieves/fences a sales outlet in an area where police are not looking for 
> the specific items the thieves are trafficking, while staying within the 
> California borders, allowing the involved parties to avoid the Federal 
> charges that would apply if they transferred the bikes across state lines.
>
> Generally speaking, the established East Bay flea markets that are the 
> most likely to be distribution points for stolen bikes are, in order of 
> probability:
>
> 1) Coliseum Flea Market (at an ex-drivein theater north of the Coliseum 
> complex, Tue-Sun; the bikes that get stolen over the weekend tend to show 
> up on Tuesday)
>
> 2) Laney Flea Market (in the  parking lot across from Laney JC, Sunday 
> only)
>
> 3) Ashby Flea Market (parking lot for Ashby BART, Sat-Sun)
>
> There used to be a large chop-shop operation running out of the unhoused 
> encampment underneath the 101-80 freeway overpasses at the 
> SoMa/Mission/Design District junction around 13th and Bryant. I haven't 
> been down in that neighborhood since a Ride of Silence a few years back; I 
> don't know whether the police and the pandemic have broken that scene up. 
> Another venue for investigation is the Alemany Flea Market (Alemany near 
> Bayshore, at 101-280 junction); this is somewhat less likely, as it's more 
> aggressively managed/policed than most flea markets.
>
> SFPD used to have a specific 3-officer unit detailed to handle bike theft, 
> which has been a big problem in the Bay Area for generations. I don't know 
> whether that unit still exists; it might be worth calling to ask.
>
> There are a number of sites for reporting stolen bikes, but Bill's 
> recommendation of Bike Index is right on the money. It's the 
> best-established one - the one that police use to check fo stolen bikes 
> brought in from outside their jurisdiction, and used bike dealers use to 
> check to make sure they're not buying hot bikes that the police might 
> confiscate.
>
> Best of luck.
>
> Peter Adler
> who hasn't had a bike stolen in 40 years, but has an irrepressible fear 
> anyway in
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Thursday, June 22, 2023 at 6:52:33 AM UTC-7 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> I'm so sorry these happened to you! It's starting to feel like we just 
> can't have nice things in the Bay Area. Have your friends check the Oakland 
> Colosseum flea market. A lot of bikes end up there. Someone I know went 
> there after their laptop was stolen out of their house and was able to 
> recover it! Also try the Ashby Flea Market in Berkeley. This does seem more 
> organized then a snatch and grab theft but maybe there is a chance the 
> bikes stayed local. I hope you are able to bring your bike home.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[George Schick]

One comment I'll have to make about gravel riding is that there's nothing 
worse than slogging along on a very dry and dusty road (such as we have in 
abundance during this drought stricken year) and being passed by a vehicle 
which leaves you covered by big clouds of dust.  It's bad enough riding on 
some of these limestone tailing paths and coming home with a dust covered 
frame, tires, drive train, etc.

On Monday, June 12, 2023 at 1:05:44 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I am very late to this conversation, and everything has been covered 
> already, but I wanted to say that even though you're not "into riding 
> gravel" per se, I think a big ol' set of knobby tires on the Clem is an 
> awesome idea (something you can take multiple steps towards, starting with 
> 48's and no fenders on the Brevet rims) if it unlocks new paths and areas 
> to explore. I'm not going to lie, riding on smooth pavement is nicer than 
> riding on gravel, as trendy as gravel riding has become. The real reason to 
> ride gravel to me, is to be able to go to quieter, more nature-filled 
> spaces by bike. Having the right tool for the job will make it a much more 
> enjoyable experience. And while you can totally under-bike slick 42's and 
> fenders like many here do, it is MUCH more confidence inspiring to be on 
> voluminous, knobby tires. 
>
> My suggestion is to put some 48's with some tread on for now, explore your 
> local options and walk if you need to, and if you find yourself really 
> enjoying getting off pavement, then it's time to upgrade to some wider rims 
> (ie Cliffhanger) and some really capable tires like knobby 2.4" Teravails. 
>
> On Sunday, 11 June 2023 at 13:45:07 UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> YAY! I tend to be the worrying sort and I'm very happy to hear that the 
>> rim/tire combo will work for you. Now go ride that gravel! 
>>
>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 1:09:14 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> All the happiness and all the joy!!! I can run what I want! I was 
>>> getting ready to pitch the whole project when I thought I might have to 
>>> build new wheels - quite the investment for something I’m only 
>>> experimenting with, plus I had dyno in my old wheelset. I’m getting 48s 
>>> because I absolutely CAN I’ll take it to the shop and report back later 
>>> on what tires I end up with.
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2023, at 1:37 PM, Bob Ehrenbeck  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> 48s are absolutely fine on Pacenti Brevets.
>>>
>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/gravel-myths-3-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/
>>>
>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/myth-18-wide-tires-need-wide-rims/
>>>
>>> Bob E
>>> Cranford, NJ
>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 2:59:59 PM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:
>>>
 The internal width is 19mm. A 48 might benefit from a slightly wider 
 internal width but it should be just fine with the 19. I am not an expert 
 in such things though.

 On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 1:10:03 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Can anyone here confirm that she can run 48s tubed on those Pacenti 
> Brevet rims? I checked their site and got nowhere, it shows a graph with 
> 42 
> yes, 50 no. What about 48??
>
> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:57:50 AM UTC-7 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> OH! I see. I don't know enough about tubeless to understand the fine 
>> details of size vs psi, etc. I have those rims on my ProtoGallop with 
>> 42's 
>> but I have tubes because it suits my brain better.
>>
>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 8:39:59 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> They are, and in the myriad responses I’ve gotten (many private and 
>>> some on Instagram) it has been explained to me that if I want to run 
>>> 48s I 
>>> have two options: 1. Run tubeless but never more than 30 psi. Or, use 
>>> tubes. Or thirdly, but new wheels.
>>>
>>> Did I misunderstand? 
>>> L
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 11, 2023, at 6:22 AM, Johnny Alien  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was under the understanding that the current Pacenti Brevet rims 
>>> are tubeless ready.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://pacenticycledesign.com/collections/aluminium-rims-gravel-cross/products/brevet-rim-650b-1
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 11, 2023 at 12:38:32 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 What Gil says resonates with me. I love how you love a Clem! All 
 those attributes truly do make the Clem a gem.  I have favored those 
 Platys 
 as of late, but I am going back to Clem-loving again soon. We are 
 traveling 
 right now, but when I get back I’m heading to the bike shop to see 
 about 
 putting 48s on my Clem if the Pacenti Brevet rims will take them. 
 Sounds 
 like if they aren’t tubeless, it’s ok. We’ll see.

 On Jun 9, 2023, at 3:15 PM, Gill  wrote:

[RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[George Schick]

Another suggestion if you *must* use fenders on gravel is to install the 
ones SKS makes out of some kind of recycled plastic material.  They won't 
completely eliminate the noise you get from tiny rocks being picked up by 
knobby tires, but they *will* reduce it significantly over the metal ones.  
And they are available in a half-dozen or so widths to accommodate your 
selected tires.

On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 3:32:34 PM UTC-5 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> A contrarian POV from a committed Fender Freak who says if you want 
> fenders - Go For It!
>
> I've been riding gravel fire roads and moderate single track in the 
> Southern Appalachians on bikes with aluminum fenders for several years now 
> and would be loath to give them up, even though they admittedly limit the 
> size tires I can use. Yes - a rock occasionally pings off of them BUT there 
> are no paint chips, dings or scratches on the underside of the downtube or 
> chain stays. An additional benefit is that the drive train stays clean, not 
> to mention my backside.
>
> A few suggestions if you are considering fenders for off pavement riding:
> - Allow plenty of clearance between the rubber and the fender - at least 
> 10mm, more is better. I've been running 40 & 42mm knobby tires with 58mm 
> fenders. 
> - Just say no to mud flaps on the front. They're great in the rain but 
> you're likely to pick up more pebbles, twigs and leaves when off pavement. 
> - Consider plastic break away mounting  hardware for the front sender 
> stays (see Rene Here or Portland Design Works) 
> - Unsurprisingly, short knobs - or slicks - play better with fenders.
> - If you like to ride through deep mud and  over wet red clay roads skip 
> the fenders and stock up on replacement chains, chain rings, rear cogs 
> derailleurs and bottom brackets.
>
>
>
> -- 
> On Sunday, June 4, 2023 at 2:50:00 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:15:22 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and 
>> I rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I 
>> have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose 
>> right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like 
>> gravel? 
>>
>>
>> It will be as great for "gravel" as it is for any other surface!
>>
>> 1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? 
>>
>>
>>  Yes,  but do you really want to? They'll limit your tire choice and 
>> it'll sound like you're shaking a soda (pop) can (let's please not pollute 
>> the thread with that discussion) full of rocks all ride long. As others 
>> have graphically shown, if it's muddy, you'll just pack the mudguards full 
>> of mud. That said, I run fenders on my Breadwinner, because most of my 
>> riding is on pavement and, until recently, the roads were frequently wet. 
>> If was planning a longer off-road ride, I'd ditch the fenders.
>>
>> 2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is 
>> better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a 
>> healthy fear of crashing.
>>
>>
>> Part of this comes down to what you mean by "gravel". Tread only starts 
>> to make a difference when you're in soft stuff, where the edges of the 
>> knobs can bite into something to provide more 
>> acceleration/deceleration/cornering force. When you take a turn on gravel 
>> you're going to have much less traction than on pavement, regardless of the 
>> tires. Those pesky little gravel bits are easy to shove aside, and hooking 
>> the edge of a knob on them just shoves them harder.
>>  
>>
>> 3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are 
>> wide enough. 
>>
>>
>> Again, this may be a function of what type of "gravel" you're on. For the 
>> crushed limestone trails of Wisconsin at reasonable speeds, 42 is plenty. 
>> If you get into softer, sandy trails, though, or you love to fly through 
>> hairpin turns, bigger is always better. I ride 48s on my Breadwinner and 
>> never feel like I have "too much tire" under me.  Unlike knobs, wider tires 
>> provide a genuine cornering advantage on loose surfaces, as they spread the 
>> force across lots more of those pesky little gravel bits, putting less 
>> force on each bit.
>>  
>>
>> 4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube 
>> in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But 
>> that can be changed right quick.
>>
>>
>> I don't think gravel vs pavement enters into that decision, unless by 
>> "gravel" you mean bouncing over baby heads at high speed. One of the big 
>> benefits is eliminating pinch flats, which generally result from hitting 
>> fairly large chunks of something at low pressure. But you can do that in a 
>> Wisconsin pot hole on pavement, too. I'm running tubeless on my 
>> Breadwinner, but I'm not convinced it's an improvement, especially if 
>> you're not 

[RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[George Schick]

The go-to tire for a lot of folks riding gravel these days is a "hybrid".  
Personally, I switched from my regular 32mm road tires to 35mm Bontrager 
Connection Hybrids for riding on the limestone tailing trails around my 
neck of the woods once they dry out and become loose and dusty gravel (as 
they have this year, way too early thanks to regional droughts).  But you 
can get "hybrid" tires in various widths so that's what I'd recommend 
installing on your bike if it's being ridden on gravel. 

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 3:15:22 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I 
> rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I 
> have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose 
> right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like 
> gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses. 
>
> BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these 
> days. I have questions, and you have answers.
>
> 1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and 
> they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:[image: IMG_5029.jpeg]
> 2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is 
> better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a 
> healthy fear of crashing.
>
> 3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are 
> wide enough. 
>
> 4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube 
> in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But 
> that can be changed right quick.
>
> Here is my Clem in its current configuration, and yes, I know the 
> Backabikes gotta go. 
>
> [image: IMG_1812.jpeg]
> Thanks for your help!
> Leah 
>

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Re: [RBW] Please Join us: Riv Ride, Yankee Springs in Hastings, Michigan

[George Schick]

The weather forecast looks like you can expect nearly perfect 
conditions.  https://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?lat=42.2344=-85.5516


On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 12:56:09 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Y'all have fun now, ya hear??!
>
> On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 10:31:36 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> REMINDER: TOMORROW! We want to see you and your Rivs for a ride tomorrow! 
>> We ride at 1030 but come early for introductions and photo opportunities. 
>> Details below.
>>
>> Leah and Marc
>>
>> On May 24, 2023, at 8:40 PM, CapNMike  wrote:
>>
>> Leah and Marc,
>>
>> Thanks for putting this Unofficial Gathering together. I'm looking 
>> forward to a great ride and social time. See you Saturday!
>> -Mike
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 11:57:19 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [image: staticmap.png]
>>>
>>> Mount Calvary Cemetery to 102 S Broadway St 
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.6433461,-85.3087182/42.6315269,-85.3181697/42.6310775,-85.367096/42.6089886,-85.4059043/42.5741657,-85.4908192/42.572192,-85.4208483/42.5854203,-85.3582147/42.5875651,-85.342435/42.6104328,-85.2918533/42.6484541,-85.2908428/@42.6098194,-85.390662,10z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e1>
>>> google.com 
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.6433461,-85.3087182/42.6315269,-85.3181697/42.6310775,-85.367096/42.6089886,-85.4059043/42.5741657,-85.4908192/42.572192,-85.4208483/42.5854203,-85.3582147/42.5875651,-85.342435/42.6104328,-85.2918533/42.6484541,-85.2908428/@42.6098194,-85.390662,10z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e1>
>>>
>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/dir/42.6433461,-85.3087182/42.6315269,-85.3181697/42.6310775,-85.367096/42.6089886,-85.4059043/42.5741657,-85.4908192/42.572192,-85.4208483/42.5854203,-85.3582147/42.5875651,-85.342435/42.6104328,-85.2918533/42.6484541,-85.2908428/@42.6098194,-85.390662,10z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e1>
>>>
>>> Here is the route for our Unofficial Riv Ride on Saturday. Join us at 
>>> 1030 for a sunny ride in Michigan’s scenic countryside. Followed by food 
>>> and drinks at Waldorff’s.
>>>
>>>  Can’t wait to see you! Respond if you are coming, just so we have an 
>>> idea about party size.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Leah
>>>
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2023, at 1:55 PM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Reminder: one week from today is our Riv Ride! Ready the Rivendells, 
>>> pack them up and bring to them for a ride through Yankee Springs Recreation 
>>> Area!
>>>
>>> Date: May 27
>>> Time: 1030
>>> Place: Park at Waldorff’s in Hastings, Michigan
>>> What: 35-40 mile route on gravel roads in Yankee Springs
>>>
>>> Join us afterwards for food and drinks at Waldorff’s Brewpub. 
>>>
>>> Can’t wait to see you all!
>>> Leah and Marc
>>>
>>> On May 9, 2023, at 10:03 AM, Marc Irwin  wrote:
>>>
>>> That is always something to consider there.  We will only be riding 6 
>>> miles on paved secondary roads, the rest will be gravel.  The main traffic 
>>> concerns in the area are around Gun Lake and Chief Noonday road which we 
>>> will be avoiding.   I did a solo trip last year on that weekend and had no 
>>> problems at all.
>>>
>>> Marc
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 9:15:52 AM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Y'all may want to keep in mind that's Memorial Day weekend.  Not sure 
>>>> how crowded the roads around Hastings and the Yankee Springs Recreation 
>>>> Area get during the year's first big holiday, but things might get a 
>>>> little 
>>>> dicey.
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 8:06:54 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Friends,
>>>>>
>>>>> The storms forecast for the weekend are going to force us to 
>>>>> reschedule the ride. We needed to give ample time for those who are 
>>>>> joining 
>>>>> us from out of the area to prepare.
>>>>>
>>>>> Instead of Saturday 13th, the ride will now be Saturday, May 27th, 
>>>>> 10:30 am. 
>>>>>
>>>>> We are excited to see you then.
>>>>> Leah and Marc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 5, 2023, at 12:04 PM, Leah Peterson  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 
>&g

[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour Cyclone GT long cage

[George Schick]

Eric - I've viewed the photo of your Cyclone GT as closely as possible.  It 
appears to be completely identical to the short cage Cyclone that I have 
available, the only difference being the lengths of the derailler cages.  
Therefore, if you can't get that spring fix to work the simplest repair 
would be to use the derailler I have and just change out the short cage for 
the long one on yours.  The advantage these Sun Tour deraillers have over 
some other makes is that the cage arm fastens directly to the spring body 
vs. having the spring assembly bolting to the jockey wheel.  You can have 
mine just for the asking if you decide to go that route.
George


On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 8:45:23 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks all! I have heard from several people now, here and outside the 
> forum, who have suggested bending a new tab. I saved the spring so I'll 
> give that a try. 
>
> Drew: As far as I know the Suntour Cyclone Mark 1 short and long cage used 
> the same cage tension spring. I'm not sure if the ARX, XC or other mechs 
> would have a compatible spring. So I'll pass on those, but if you find a 
> Mark 1 short or long cage, I'm interested! 
>
> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:30:27 PM UTC-4 dblue...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Like Reginald suggested, I bent a new tab onto the end of one of those 
>> springs a year or two ago. It has held up so far, but the derailer is only 
>> in use as a tensioner on a dinglespeed. Getting the bend angled so that it 
>> would go back together correctly was a little bit of a nuisance, but if 
>> nobody has an intact derailer for you, give it a try.
>>
>> Dan
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 2:04:49 AM UTC-7 R. Alexis wrote:
>>
>>> Wonder if you can bend a new tab on the end of that spring to make it 
>>> work? 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Reginald Alexis
>>>
>>> On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 4:39:54 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Hello friends — On yesterday's ride I broke one of the tabs on the 
 chain tension spring of my Cyclone rear mech. 

 If you have a long cage Cyclone you'd part with please let me know your 
 price shipped to me in Virginia, 22401. 

 Thank you!

 Here you can see the spring and the bright metal from the fresh break. 
 I even found the little piece of spring that broke free. 

 [image: cyclone1.png]

 [image: cyclone2.png]

>>>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Suntour Cyclone GT long cage

[George Schick]

Hmmm...let me dig around in my parts box.  I have at least one Sun Tour RD 
in there, but it might be a short cage.  But you could take it apart - the 
spring should be the same.
I'll PM you with my findings.


On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 4:39:54 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello friends — On yesterday's ride I broke one of the tabs on the chain 
> tension spring of my Cyclone rear mech. 
>
> If you have a long cage Cyclone you'd part with please let me know your 
> price shipped to me in Virginia, 22401. 
>
> Thank you!
>
> Here you can see the spring and the bright metal from the fresh break. I 
> even found the little piece of spring that broke free. 
>
> [image: cyclone1.png]
>
> [image: cyclone2.png]
>

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[RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[George Schick]

Thanks a bunch, Ted.  It's very helpful.  What you say here is pretty much 
the way I've set things up on my bikes and I've enjoyed riding them with 
gearing like this.

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:55:27 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

> Hi All -
>
> Leah's "Getting Over My Head" thread seems to have evolved into a gearing 
> thread. I retired from a career in data mining and statistical modeling, so 
> you can just imagine how much time I've wasted on "optimizing" bicycle 
> gearing. 
>
> Here's the TL;DR version: it's impossible to optimize gearing, so stop 
> sweating it.
>
> The slightly longer version is that we are locked into integer tooth 
> counts; when the optimal cog is 14.5 teeth, that ain't an option! So, we 
> are forced into compromising or, better yet, satisficing. 
>
> There are essentially three key points we are trying to fix with gears: 
> the lowest low, the highest high, and the steps in between. Given those, we 
> then try create a system that reliably and easily shifts among the gears. 
> For me, a 2x system using components available today provides the best 
> combination of low-low, high-high, steps in between, simplicity, 
> consistency, and reliability. But that depends highly on the chain, the 
> chainrings, and the front derailer playing nicely together. It also works 
> for me because I use it as 2 gearing ranges, one for flats and downhills, 
> the other for long, steeper uphills.
>
> The lowest low and the highest high are pretty straightforward, and plenty 
> of ink has been spilled on how to choose those, so there's no point in 
> elaborating on that. It's the "steps in between" part that drives us wild. 
> In theory, we think, we'd like to have perfectly even steps between the 
> high and low. In practice, though, 1) that's simply not possible with a 
> cog-and-chain drivetrain, and 2) it might not even be that desirable. A lot 
> of riders, myself included, find that we prefer smaller steps between gears 
> in the range in which we normally ride, and larger steps out in the 
> extremes. 
>
> What I definitely don't like is having a big difference between 3 adjacent 
> cogs in the middle of my cruising range. For example, a 1-tooth difference 
> one way and a 2-tooth difference the other. Unfortunately, this is a common 
> occurrence in large cog count cassettes with tiny small cogs - they go from 
> a 1-tooth difference to a 2-tooth difference near the middle of the 
> cluster. That's twice the amount of reduction/increase in effort. So, when 
> I'm looking at cassettes, I'm looking for ones where that 1-to-2 transition 
> occurs as close to the small cog as I can get it. A major factor here is 
> the movement to smaller smallest cogs, which has gone from 14 to 10 in my 
> time. Starting from 11 (or, God forbid, 10!) you use a lot of cogs to get 
> to the point where 2-tooth steps start to make sense.
>
> On the other hand, those small smallest cogs mean we can use small outer 
> chainrings, and that's something of a boon if your front derailer can 
> handle it, because it means we can also use smaller inner rings on a 2x to 
> get sufficiently low gearing. The difference between chainrings is worth 
> examining a bit. Typical road double front derailers have a 16-tooth max 
> difference specification, which derives from the standard "compact double" 
> 50-34. That's a 39% difference, which is a pretty big jump, roughly 3.3x 
> the average jump on the cassettes often paired with those chainrings. So, 
> shifting up front is the equivalent of around 3 1/3 cogs in back. On my 
> Waterford I use a 42-tooth large ring, and a 26-tooth small ring is 16t 
> smaller, but that's a whopping 48% difference, which is 5x the average jump 
> on my cassette. Piaw mentioned going with smaller tooth differences up 
> front, and there's a good example of why. When I built my Breadwinner I 
> went with 44x32 up front, a 32% difference that is 3.1x the average 
> difference on the cassette. I find that to be a much less disruptive change 
> than on my Waterford. The front chainring difference as a multiple of the 
> average in back turned out to be a significant factor for me. Sure, it 
> means I have more overlap in gears, but that's less important to me than 
> the change in cadence caused by shifting.
>
> One last consideration as I'm designing a drivetrain is that I want my 
> preferred cruising gear near the center of the rear cogs, maybe a little 
> closer to the small end, so that I can be on the large ring for most of my 
> riding around home. That's around a 5.0 gain ratio for me now, which is the 
> 42x17 on my Waterford. And, as noted, I want a consistent difference above 
> and below that gear, which means, for me, a 2-tooth change on each side of 
> it. 
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[George Schick]

Now that we've pretty thoroughly hijacked this blog thread:  Patrick, if 
you've been building your own cassettes for 20 years, where have you been 
able to purchase individual cogs (and spacers) in order to assemble your 
own desired combination?  Everything I've noticed when removing cassettes 
from their splined "body" for cleaning or substituting a different combo's 
was that several of the central cogs are riveted together (which is what I 
think Piaw was getting at when he said "...after cassettes were introduced 
you couldn't pick individual sprockets any more...")?

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:58:59 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I've been home-building cassettes for 20 years at least after I got 
> sufficiently frustrated with stock combinations; in friction (and even 
> indexed) they have shifted fine. I agree about 11 sp chains; at least, I'm 
> using an 11 on my (custom, built with Miche cogs) 10 sp cassette and I've 
> never had better shifting. Have read many places that 10 sp chains ar 
> longer lasting than 9, 11 than 10. Perhaps will try making an 11 sp 
> cassette with my 10 sp Miche cogs by substituting 11 sp spacers for the 10 
> sp ones and will try a 12 sp chain.
>
> It's really wonderful how well Barcons (and 8 sp era rd) work with 10 sp 
> cogs and an 11 sp chain; every time I ride the bike in question I'm 
> delighted. Much better, IMO, than friction 7 and 9 speed even with fully 
> stock cassettes and chains.
>
> Do you have a link to or PDF of your halfstep article? Or -- since there 
> are RR archives -- a publication # or date? I'm tempted to set up a half 
> step drivetrain on a bike with disk brakes just because ... (already have 
> another bike with non-aero levers and disk brakes).
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 8:29 AM Piaw Na  wrote:
>
>> I wrote an early article for the Rivendell Reader about half-step and 
>> granny. I works great with 7 speed freewheels where you can pick the 
>> sprockets. But after cassettes were introduced you couldn't pick individual 
>> sprockets any more so it became impractical. At that point I switched over 
>> to crossover + granny, especially when 11-34 cassettes were introduced. 
>> Despite Grant's assertions, the new 11s cassettes and chains seem to be 
>> quite reliable --- the 11s chain definitely lasts longer than the 9s chain 
>> (about 30% longer), and the 11s cassettes on a friction shifter actually 
>> shift better --- there's less chance that you'll get stuck in between 
>> sprockets when you shift and have to trim. 
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/16991079-f9b3-4fbb-a510-7563d65396e6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[George Schick]

Worthy question, but it all depends upon what one means by "getting in over 
your head."  My honest answer to that would be "yes" during the mid-70's 
when I attempted to compete in what was then known back then as "Cat. 4" 
amateur racing.  This was when I was in my mid-20's and I attempted to 
compete in a criterium and in a time trial.  I fell way, way behind in both 
events and gave up on amateur racing since I discovered that I possessed 
neither the right "build" nor the proper stamina to compete in events like 
that.

I did, though, participate in semi-weekly "training" rides where most of us 
would continually get dropped by the club captain and Cat. 3 racer (they 
only had 4 categories back then before pro).  I eventually fell away from 
any participation in any of these goings-on due to family circumstances and 
requirements (new born child, etc.) and saw no interest in picking them up 
again after that, though I continued to ride several times a week with a 
co-worker over a 25 mile course and was content with that.

So, yes, over my head, but I retreated to what I found to be my "comfort 
zone" instead of trying to continually push the envelope, as it were.  And 
I've enjoyed cycling ever since, though not in group rides after the early 
80's, but on my own or, as you put it, as a "lone wolf" with an occasional 
tag-along, as the situation presented itself.

As captain Briggs used to always say in Clint Eastwood's "Dirty Harry" 
sequel, "Magnum Force," "...good man always knows his limitations..."
 
On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 4:02:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Ok, George, very good, but the question remains: Have you ever gotten in 
> over your head? 
>
> Or did you read all the books…
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 17, 2023, at 3:25 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I'm old, old, and old enough to have used Eugene Sloane's "Complete Book 
> of Bicycling" as my guide into serious cycling back in the early '70's.  In 
> his book he goes through great pains, including photos, to explain the five 
> or so hand positions available to a cyclist riding with standard drop road 
> bars.  Jock as done us a favor by posting an autobiographical photo of him 
> riding with his hands on the brake lever hoods.  In addition, hands may be 
> positioned on the bend of the bars with just the first part of the index 
> finger digit on the brake lever hoods, they may be positioned on the 
> downward bend of the bars, and they may grip the flats on the top of the 
> bars, and, of course, all the way down on the drops.  All of these 
> positions may be used to the advantage of the rider as conditions vary 
> through climbing, fatigue (especially in the lower back, but also in the 
> hands), and when riding into a strong headwind.  If a rider is approaching 
> a steep incline he/she has the option of either gripping hands around the 
> brake lever hoods and standing (muscling) up the slope or staying seated 
> and gripping hands around the flats, spinning at high cadence all the way 
> up (what used to be called "honking").  If a rider is in a paceline he/she 
> has the option of either gripping the brake lever hoods and crouching down 
> or going hands all the way down on the drops in order to gain best 
> advantage of the draft behind the cyclist ahead.  Sloane recommended using 
> a bike set up this way for touring as well and never recommended (to the 
> best of my recollection) the use of bikes set up differently except for 
> casual riding (unless you're Freddy Hoffman).
>
>
> Upon viewing photos of these long wheel based, step-through framed bikes 
> with upright bars, I see none of the same advantages that drop bars offer.  
> Can one still ride competitively in fast, paceline oriented, club rides on 
> bikes like these?  Sure, but you're going to pay a penalty in unnecessary 
> exertion and, as time goes along, the physiology of the extra stress and 
> strain on joints, ligaments, and muscles is likely to take a toll on one's 
> body.  The choice is one's own, but as others have advised here, there are 
> practical alternatives.
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:32:19 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> I've been engaged with the pros / cons of group rides for many years. 
>> And, despite my best efforts to see it clearly, I still waffle to and fro.
>>
>> These days, I'm always the only guy riding fly-by-wire steel and have 
>> little in common with the folks on plastic bikes. There is no idle talk 
>> about equipment (most drop their bikes off to have tires mounted). But I 
>> like a well-organized paceline because it makes me stronger and builds 
>> fitness. I have no loft

Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[George Schick]

Patrick - as far as I know, "honking" may have been used for either seated 
or standing positions, but the way I recall Sloane describing it, it 
consisted of placing one's hands on the flat bar tops.  It's difficult to 
imagine hands in that position when standing on the pedals.

Also, in pacelines that I have ridden in the distant past, I have found 
that the hands down on the hooks with the fingers "just reachable" to the 
brake levers is the optimal position.  That way you can gain maximum 
aerodynamic advantage while "feathering" the brakes as necessary to keep 
and appropriate distance from the rider ahead of you.  In fact, when 
Campagnolo was occasionally criticized by some during the 70's that their 
Record series brakes lacked adequate stopping power, they responded by 
saying that their brakes were designed to "modulate speed," not just to 
stop the bike.
 

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 2:38:28 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I generally agree with George's information, only "honking" means standing 
> and pushing hard on the pedals, usually uphill. I think it's an old British 
> term. Also, I don't think that you use the hooks for drafting, tho' I 
> confess that my knowledge here is gained from reading, since I have never 
> ridden except in the most temporary and casual of pace lines.
>
> But I do agree (same caveat) that Platypuses and such are *not* optimized 
> for fast paceline riding, while the fast boys' CF racing bikes are..
>
> Back to regular programming.
>
> Patrick Moore, who "got into" cycling at age 14, the year before the book 
> came out.
>
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 1:25 PM George Schick  wrote:
>
>> I'm old, old, and old enough to have used Eugene Sloane's "Complete Book 
>> of Bicycling" as my guide into serious cycling back in the early '70's.  In 
>> his book he goes through great pains, including photos, to explain the five 
>> or so hand positions available to a cyclist riding with standard drop road 
>> bars.  Jock as done us a favor by posting an autobiographical photo of him 
>> riding with his hands on the brake lever hoods.  In addition, hands may be 
>> positioned on the bend of the bars with just the first part of the index 
>> finger digit on the brake lever hoods, they may be positioned on the 
>> downward bend of the bars, and they may grip the flats on the top of the 
>> bars, and, of course, all the way down on the drops.  All of these 
>> positions may be used to the advantage of the rider as conditions vary 
>> through climbing, fatigue (especially in the lower back, but also in the 
>> hands), and when riding into a strong headwind.  If a rider is approaching 
>> a steep incline he/she has the option of either gripping hands around the 
>> brake lever hoods and standing (muscling) up the slope or staying seated 
>> and gripping hands around the flats, spinning at high cadence all the way 
>> up (what used to be called "honking").  If a rider is in a paceline he/she 
>> has the option of either gripping the brake lever hoods and crouching down 
>> or going hands all the way down on the drops in order to gain best 
>> advantage of the draft behind the cyclist ahead.  Sloane recommended using 
>> a bike set up this way for touring as well and never recommended (to the 
>> best of my recollection) the use of bikes set up differently except for 
>> casual riding (unless you're Freddy Hoffman).
>>
>> Upon viewing photos of these long wheel based, step-through framed bikes 
>> with upright bars, I see none of the same advantages that drop bars offer.  
>> Can one still ride competitively in fast, paceline oriented, club rides on 
>> bikes like these?  Sure, but you're going to pay a penalty in unnecessary 
>> exertion and, as time goes along, the physiology of the extra stress and 
>> strain on joints, ligaments, and muscles is likely to take a toll on one's 
>> body.  The choice is one's own, but as others have advised here, there are 
>> practical alternatives.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[George Schick]

I'm old, old, and old enough to have used Eugene Sloane's "Complete Book of 
Bicycling" as my guide into serious cycling back in the early '70's.  In 
his book he goes through great pains, including photos, to explain the five 
or so hand positions available to a cyclist riding with standard drop road 
bars.  Jock as done us a favor by posting an autobiographical photo of him 
riding with his hands on the brake lever hoods.  In addition, hands may be 
positioned on the bend of the bars with just the first part of the index 
finger digit on the brake lever hoods, they may be positioned on the 
downward bend of the bars, and they may grip the flats on the top of the 
bars, and, of course, all the way down on the drops.  All of these 
positions may be used to the advantage of the rider as conditions vary 
through climbing, fatigue (especially in the lower back, but also in the 
hands), and when riding into a strong headwind.  If a rider is approaching 
a steep incline he/she has the option of either gripping hands around the 
brake lever hoods and standing (muscling) up the slope or staying seated 
and gripping hands around the flats, spinning at high cadence all the way 
up (what used to be called "honking").  If a rider is in a paceline he/she 
has the option of either gripping the brake lever hoods and crouching down 
or going hands all the way down on the drops in order to gain best 
advantage of the draft behind the cyclist ahead.  Sloane recommended using 
a bike set up this way for touring as well and never recommended (to the 
best of my recollection) the use of bikes set up differently except for 
casual riding (unless you're Freddy Hoffman).

Upon viewing photos of these long wheel based, step-through framed bikes 
with upright bars, I see none of the same advantages that drop bars offer.  
Can one still ride competitively in fast, paceline oriented, club rides on 
bikes like these?  Sure, but you're going to pay a penalty in unnecessary 
exertion and, as time goes along, the physiology of the extra stress and 
strain on joints, ligaments, and muscles is likely to take a toll on one's 
body.  The choice is one's own, but as others have advised here, there are 
practical alternatives.

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 12:32:19 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:

> I've been engaged with the pros / cons of group rides for many years. And, 
> despite my best efforts to see it clearly, I still waffle to and fro.
>
> These days, I'm always the only guy riding fly-by-wire steel and have 
> little in common with the folks on plastic bikes. There is no idle talk 
> about equipment (most drop their bikes off to have tires mounted). But I 
> like a well-organized paceline because it makes me stronger and builds 
> fitness. I have no lofty goals other than being able to ride 50 miles with 
> ease. In this regard, riding with a strong group is a means to an end. I 
> also feed on the euphoria of living the moment. It's exhilarating—the 
> speed, the awareness, the 'aliveness'...maybe even* the danger*. 
>
> There is no past, no future, only *now*.
>
> But I enjoy—equally—long rides out into the countryside all by myself. I 
> never *feel* alone; I'm not concerned for my safety. I love the silence 
> and amuse myself as I get lost in my head. Though we are lured by the 
> comfort as miles pass by, we must always be sharp, vigilant, and prepared, 
> because each turn leads to the unknown regardless of how many times we've 
> pedaled down the road.
>
> I am quite a bit older than all my riding mates...that reality is hard to 
> ignore. I don't think about it much—as I *feel *youthful and prepared for 
> adventure. But some numbers cannot be ignored. The paceline distorts this 
> reality...and brushes it aside if only temporarily. 
>
> At this point in my life, that's reward enough.
>
> Jock Dewey 
>
> [image: Screenshot 2023-05-17 at 9.41.22 AM.png]
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 6:58 AM Ted Durant  wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 5:36:22 AM UTC-5 Jay LePree wrote:
>>
>>  I  think this is exacerbated by the growth of Swift, etc.  Riders have 
>> increasingly big engines, but not the riding skills to harness them safely 
>> in a group ride.  
>>
>>
>> That's been a subject of conversation at the pro level, where people are 
>> being picked up out of Zwift Academy and getting pro contracts.  Even 
>> before then, I saw lots of people with plenty of power but no group riding 
>> skills create chaos in the pack. 
>>
>> What keeps me away from group rides these days, aside from becoming an 
>> old fart, is the rampant blowing off of traffic signals and "itching for a 
>> fight" attitude cyclists take toward car drivers. Also, as Paul Fournel 
>> says in _Need For The Bike_, "Hell is the rhythm of others." 
>>
>> The guy I do most my riding with smiles and waves at everyone, regardless 
>> of how polite or impolite the encounter. And, he and I share the same 
>> rhythm 99.9% of the time. 
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee,