Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Sizing for an 85PBH

[Ed Fausto]

Hi Alex,
I am not sure if you have checked the pbh chart at Riv's website.
Based on the pbh chart, it looks like a 53 MIT Atlantis would best fit a 85
cm pbh.
It is perfectly in the middle of the range from 83 to 87 cm pbh.

https://www.rivbike.com/pages/pubic-bone-height-how-to-measure-your-pbh

Check Riv's chart.


On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 8:54 AM Alex K  wrote:

> Hey all.  I know Atlantis sizing is a hot topic around these parts.  At
> the risk of being redundant, I am trying to figure out which Atlantis is
> the one for me.  I recently bought a 56cm Atlantis 650b frame from the RBW
> Garage Sale, thinking that it was the perfect size for me.  Now that I am
> getting close to building it up, i’m starting to doubt myself.  I have an
> 85 PBH.  I tend to like bikes a LITTLE bit on the smaller size.  Wondering
> if perhaps the 53 Atlantis is actually the one for me.   Anybody have ANY
> advice at all?  Thanks a bunch.
> Alex
>
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> .
>

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[RBW] 650b Atlantis Sizing for an 85PBH

[Alex K]

Hey all.  I know Atlantis sizing is a hot topic around these parts.  At the 
risk of being redundant, I am trying to figure out which Atlantis is the 
one for me.  I recently bought a 56cm Atlantis 650b frame from the RBW 
Garage Sale, thinking that it was the perfect size for me.  Now that I am 
getting close to building it up, i’m starting to doubt myself.  I have an 
85 PBH.  I tend to like bikes a LITTLE bit on the smaller size.  Wondering 
if perhaps the 53 Atlantis is actually the one for me.   Anybody have ANY 
advice at all?  Thanks a bunch.
Alex

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[William!]

Ended up doing the conversion. Running 2.25 inch Thunder Burts the B.B. height 
is about 11 inches. That’s maybe half an inch lower than I was used to (700c x 
48mm), but still plenty of clearance for the rough roads and loaded touring I 
use it for.

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[RichS]

Paul Moto-Lites work. I played with the conversion on my 53 Atlantis a couple 
of years ago. It was successful but short lived. I didn’t care for the change 
in height so went back to the 26”/canti configuration and that’s where it is 
today.

Regards,
Richard

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Ian A]

I just can't see 650b presenting anything but good things, then! 

FWIW, I used to follow the Surly Groups page and there was a fellow who had 
bought a 700c Disc Trucker. He had a 559 wheelset and a 622 wheelset and 
changed them depending on the task. 622 for commuting and 559 for carrying a 
camping load into the bush. The load was significant apparently as he carried 
gear and food for him, his wife and their child, so the wide rubber and smaller 
wheel worked for him. 

IanA

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[drew]

This is exciting. I have a 650b Atlantis on order. My semi secret plan (I'm 
aware it's somewhat apocryphal) was to get a disc fork made for it down the 
line and keep v's or canti's in the rear. I'd Keep the og fork as is in case 
the change is dumb. Right now that seems about as close to dream bike as I can 
get.

I've been hesitant to consider frame modifications on the Atlantis that I don't 
even have yet, but I'd love to see pics of the disclantis. Might push me over 
the edge.  

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[William Henderson]

You’d be surprised! Most folks look right at it and never notice the
difference…

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 1:28 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I'm trying to figure out how there's a disc Riv out there somewhere and we
> never heard about it!
>
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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Paul Choi]

Joe,

I think the Crust Romanceur is the closest you can get to a Disc Atlantis. 
Here is their description from their site. $1275 f/f. I have been looking 
at this and the new VO Polyvalent 650b as a disc option. The new Polyvalent 
will be out in the spring at $725 f/f.  

The Romanceür frame has a standard 1″ threaded steerer, meant for quill 
stems.All sizes have level top tubes.Bottom bracket height, standover 
clearance, and trail are all calculated with a 340mm (13.4″) radius tire. 
The Romanceür was designed to have generous clearance for fenders around 26 
x 2.3″ tires. 650b x 48 tires with fenders should fit equally well, and 
even larger tires will fit fine without fenders.68mm standard threaded 
BB27.2 seat post diameter.Disc brakes. Ornate lugs.Rear spacing 135.Front 
spacing 100. Reynolds 853  double butted oversized tubing. 

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 1:28:30 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm trying to figure out how there's a disc Riv out there somewhere and we 
> never heard about it! 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 1:13:30 PM UTC-8, Leslie wrote:
>
> If you had an older Atlantis that was a 56 or under, ie, a 26"-wheeled 
> bike, you could use the Paul Motolites and run it as a 650b (if I ever run 
> across a cheap 56 Atlantis, I'd consider doing such).  I wouldn't try to 
> run a 700c Atlantis as a 650b.
>
> (Realize, I have to caveat things everytime I open my mouth, but this is 
> coming from a guy who converted his 700c Ram to 650b Hetres, and then for 
> awhile borrowed the 700c wheels for the 650b Bomba w/ Motolites, just to 
> see how it'd be, and it was fine...) 
>

Well, I believe the original intent of converting a 700c Atlantis to 650b 
is to get fatter and cushier tires. Tires with more of that new-fanged free 
air, to paraphrase Grant. Therefore, converting a 26" Atlantis to 650b 
doesn't make too much sense, especially with the selection of 26" tires we 
have now (such as the Compass Naches Pass 
).
 
Having stated that, I know that Ron Lau had converted his Joe Stark 
26"-wheeled Rivendell to 650b 
, and reported good 
results. Apparently, new brake arms with longer adjustment slots were 
enough to execute this change.

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[David B]

I believe that part only works on remove-able canti studs, which a Riv 
would not have.


On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 2:56:13 PM UTC-6, Max S wrote:
>
> Here’s the widget I was thinking of: 
>
> http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/12056493355_711665c0d3.jpg 
>
> And another implementation: 
>
> https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=166014 
>
> These can help if converting 700c to 650b. But mind the bb drop, as 
> pointed out above. 
>
> - Max 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[dougP]

Bill:

Not that I'm likely to try this notion, but it would seem as long as you 
used a 650b tire that yielded the same OD as the 700c it replaced, the BB 
would not drop.  622 - 584 = 38 mm.  Granted, that's a substantial increase 
in tire size, and most Atlantans are probable running something in the 
35-45 mm width range already.  Assuming a 40 mm tire on a 622 mm rim, the 
OD will be around 700 mm.  So a comparable 650b would be around 60 mm.  All 
of this is theoretical & ignores that tires are often not true to size.  

Is my logic right on this?  Or did I miss something important?

dougP

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 12:31:52 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> William! asked "Can anyone comment on what geometry changes Rivendell made 
> to accommodate the smaller wheel size?"
>
> Obviously you are already looking at the Geometry Chart, right?  
> https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry
>
> The biggest difference to accommodate smaller diameter TIRES is BB drop.  
> The 650B Atlantis has 67mm of BB drop.  The 700C Atlantis has 80mm of 
> drop.  The 26" Atlantis has 48mm of drop.  A 700C Atlantis has more BB drop 
> than any frameset I know of.  Running smaller wheels on a bike with more 
> drop than 99.5% of bikes out there is a great recipe for pedal strikes.  If 
> you don't worry about pedal strikes, go for it.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:42:04 AM UTC-8, William! wrote:
>>
>> Somewhat off topic, but has anyone here converted an Atlantis to 650b? 
>> I've got a larger (61cm) Atlantis and I've been thinking of building a 
>> second set of wheels – mainly so that I can run knobby tires without 
>> hitting fender clearance issues. Can anyone comment on what geometry 
>> changes Rivendell made to accommodate the smaller wheel size?
>>
>> William
>>
>> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:01:58 AM UTC-8, Max S wrote:
>>>
>>> So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports? 
>>>
>>> I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the 
>>> double top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain 
>>> stays. Now that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the 
>>> perennial “simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace 
>>> with a single 59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it 
>>> fits)?.. 
>>>
>>> - Max 
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Joe Bernard]

I'm trying to figure out how there's a disc Riv out there somewhere and we 
never heard about it! 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Leslie]

If you had an older Atlantis that was a 56 or under, ie, a 26"-wheeled 
bike, you could use the Paul Motolites and run it as a 650b (if I ever run 
across a cheap 56 Atlantis, I'd consider doing such).  I wouldn't try to 
run a 700c Atlantis as a 650b.

(Realize, I have to caveat things everytime I open my mouth, but this is 
coming from a guy who converted his 700c Ram to 650b Hetres, and then for 
awhile borrowed the 700c wheels for the 650b Bomba w/ Motolites, just to 
see how it'd be, and it was fine...) 




On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 12:42:04 PM UTC-5, William! wrote:
>
> Somewhat off topic, but has anyone here converted an Atlantis to 650b? 
> I've got a larger (61cm) Atlantis and I've been thinking of building a 
> second set of wheels – mainly so that I can run knobby tires without 
> hitting fender clearance issues. Can anyone comment on what geometry 
> changes Rivendell made to accommodate the smaller wheel size?
>
> William
>
> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:01:58 AM UTC-8, Max S wrote:
>>
>> So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports? 
>>
>> I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the 
>> double top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain 
>> stays. Now that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the 
>> perennial “simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace 
>> with a single 59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it 
>> fits)?.. 
>>
>> - Max 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Max S]

Here’s the widget I was thinking of: 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5481/12056493355_711665c0d3.jpg

And another implementation: 

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=166014

These can help if converting 700c to 650b. But mind the bb drop, as pointed out 
above. 

- Max

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[lconley]

If you have a 650b bike with cantilever studs, all you need to do is use 
Paul Motolite linear brakes, you can run 650b, 700c, and probably even the 
old 27". As the wheel diameter gets larger, the tire gets narrower due to 
frame and fork clearance, but the brakes can be adapted to a huge range of 
larger rim diameters just by sliding the shoe clamp up the brake arm..

Laing


>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[dougP]

I did a short ride on a 56 cm 650b Atlantis at RBWHQ, and really liked it.  
I have a 58 cm 700c Atlantis, and the 650b was different somehow, in a good 
way.  I can't put my finger on it but the ride was just nicer.  I believe 
the new designs have slightly longer chainstays, so that may be part of 
it.  They have the geo charts for all of them on the website, including max 
tire sizes.  Not sure the new ones take significantly wider rubber than the 
old.  

Someone here bought that demo bike & was to have posted his findings.  
Maybe I missed it but I never skip anything with "Atlantis" in the subject 
line.

dougP

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:01:58 AM UTC-8, Max S wrote:
>
> So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports? 
>
> I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the 
> double top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain 
> stays. Now that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the 
> perennial “simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace 
> with a single 59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it 
> fits)?.. 
>
> - Max 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Bill Lindsay]

William! asked "Can anyone comment on what geometry changes Rivendell made 
to accommodate the smaller wheel size?"

Obviously you are already looking at the Geometry Chart, right?  
https://www.rivbike.com/pages/geometry

The biggest difference to accommodate smaller diameter TIRES is BB drop.  
The 650B Atlantis has 67mm of BB drop.  The 700C Atlantis has 80mm of 
drop.  The 26" Atlantis has 48mm of drop.  A 700C Atlantis has more BB drop 
than any frameset I know of.  Running smaller wheels on a bike with more 
drop than 99.5% of bikes out there is a great recipe for pedal strikes.  If 
you don't worry about pedal strikes, go for it.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:42:04 AM UTC-8, William! wrote:
>
> Somewhat off topic, but has anyone here converted an Atlantis to 650b? 
> I've got a larger (61cm) Atlantis and I've been thinking of building a 
> second set of wheels – mainly so that I can run knobby tires without 
> hitting fender clearance issues. Can anyone comment on what geometry 
> changes Rivendell made to accommodate the smaller wheel size?
>
> William
>
> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:01:58 AM UTC-8, Max S wrote:
>>
>> So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports? 
>>
>> I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the 
>> double top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain 
>> stays. Now that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the 
>> perennial “simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace 
>> with a single 59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it 
>> fits)?.. 
>>
>> - Max 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[dougP]

"I forgot to mention that it is already running disc brakes"

You converted an Atlantis to disc brakes???  Did you have a new fork made?  

dougP

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 12:17:15 PM UTC-8, William! wrote:
>
> Right, I forgot to mention that it is already running disc brakes so 
> moving the studs won’t be an issue. If I had a set of 650b wheels sitting 
> around I’d throw them on but in lieu of that I was hoping someone else 
> might already have tried (whether by moving the studs or some other method).
> On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM Ian A  
> wrote:
>
>> The canti posts are the issue. It would certainly be possible to move the 
>> posts to the 650b position and use brakes with enough adjustment to 
>> accommodate either 650b wheels or 700c.
>>
>> But, the costs of moving the posts and dealing with painting the frame 
>> and fork afterwards would be significant. As to whether it would 
>> significantly change the ride of the bike, hard to say. The bottom bracket 
>> would sit a fraction lower.
>>
>> 650b rims are predominantly disc only nowadays. There are still rim brake 
>> options available, but personally I think a new bike would be a better 
>> investment. Something like the Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross Disc 
>> (which I believe is still in prototype phase).
>>
>> Keep the Atlantis the way G intended. It's good that way.
>>
>> IanA
>>
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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[William Henderson]

Right, I forgot to mention that it is already running disc brakes so moving
the studs won’t be an issue. If I had a set of 650b wheels sitting around
I’d throw them on but in lieu of that I was hoping someone else might
already have tried (whether by moving the studs or some other method).
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:08 AM Ian A  wrote:

> The canti posts are the issue. It would certainly be possible to move the
> posts to the 650b position and use brakes with enough adjustment to
> accommodate either 650b wheels or 700c.
>
> But, the costs of moving the posts and dealing with painting the frame and
> fork afterwards would be significant. As to whether it would significantly
> change the ride of the bike, hard to say. The bottom bracket would sit a
> fraction lower.
>
> 650b rims are predominantly disc only nowadays. There are still rim brake
> options available, but personally I think a new bike would be a better
> investment. Something like the Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross Disc
> (which I believe is still in prototype phase).
>
> Keep the Atlantis the way G intended. It's good that way.
>
> IanA
>
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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Ian A]

The canti posts are the issue. It would certainly be possible to move the posts 
to the 650b position and use brakes with enough adjustment to accommodate 
either 650b wheels or 700c.

But, the costs of moving the posts and dealing with painting the frame and fork 
afterwards would be significant. As to whether it would significantly change 
the ride of the bike, hard to say. The bottom bracket would sit a fraction 
lower.

650b rims are predominantly disc only nowadays. There are still rim brake 
options available, but personally I think a new bike would be a better 
investment. Something like the Black Mountain Cycles Monster Cross Disc (which 
I believe is still in prototype phase).

Keep the Atlantis the way G intended. It's good that way.

IanA

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Max S]

There’s a widget for doing that honest. Just don’t recall the name... 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Tim Gavin]

Atlantii are not easily convert-able, because of cantilever brakes.

On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 11:42 AM, William! 
wrote:

> Somewhat off topic, but has anyone here converted an Atlantis to 650b?
> I've got a larger (61cm) Atlantis and I've been thinking of building a
> second set of wheels – mainly so that I can run knobby tires without
> hitting fender clearance issues. Can anyone comment on what geometry
> changes Rivendell made to accommodate the smaller wheel size?
>
> William
>
> On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:01:58 AM UTC-8, Max S wrote:
>>
>> So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports?
>>
>> I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the
>> double top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain
>> stays. Now that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the
>> perennial “simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace
>> with a single 59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it
>> fits)?..
>>
>> - Max
>
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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[William!]

Somewhat off topic, but has anyone here converted an Atlantis to 650b? I've 
got a larger (61cm) Atlantis and I've been thinking of building a second 
set of wheels – mainly so that I can run knobby tires without hitting 
fender clearance issues. Can anyone comment on what geometry changes 
Rivendell made to accommodate the smaller wheel size?

William

On Monday, November 27, 2017 at 9:01:58 AM UTC-8, Max S wrote:
>
> So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports? 
>
> I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the 
> double top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain 
> stays. Now that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the 
> perennial “simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace 
> with a single 59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it 
> fits)?.. 
>
> - Max 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Max S]

So, anyone ride a 650b Atlantis yet?.. ride reports? 

I was tempted by the 58 cm b-nut Appaloosa for sale, but not digging the double 
top tube aesthetic, and not completely sold on the super-long chain stays. Now 
that I’m laid up with a freshly broken collarbone now and the perennial 
“simplification” urge struck - sell a couple of bikes to replace with a single 
59 cm 650b Atlantis, run 2 wheelsets (42, 48/52/60mm if it fits)?.. 

- Max 

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Re: [RBW] 650B Atlantis

[drew]

This is really cool to hear. I put a 650b Atlantis on order a few weeks ago to 
replace my hunq. One of the main things I was hoping for over my 700c/29er 
hunqapillar, that I love dearly, is responsiveness. 

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Re: [RBW] 650B Atlantis

[Mike Williams]

Doug,  its impressive to hear this story coming from you!   More than anyone on 
the list,  I think of you as more resolute about your Atlantis being capable 
for all of the kind of riding that you love to do.   When we all talk about 
different models or even brands and ride characteristics, you always pop into 
my head as' yeah, but is it going to offer me anything that my Atlantis 
doesnt'? And I totally agree with that reasoning!  Are you going to be in the 
N+1 crowd?!  -Mike

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 30, 2017, at 11:44 AM,   wrote:
> 
> On my way to the West Point Inn weekend, I stopped by RBWHQ just to hang out 
> & check out all the new goodies.  As luck would have it, Roman was working 
> with a potential customer, helping him sort out the Appaloosa, Atlantis & 
> Clem question.  The guy had been riding old bikes for a long time & felt it 
> was about time to get something really nice.  After he took off on Grant's 
> personal Appaloosa (he intends to commute so all the junk on the bike was a 
> good simulated load), Roman walked me thru all the changes on the new 
> Atlantis & offered to slap a saddle on a 56 cm , 650B.  Since I really wasn't 
> buying anything, I declined the ride.  
> 
> After a while the guy came back, thoroughly smitten with the Appaloosa, and 
> asking about what was the next level up?  Of course it's the Atlantis, and 
> the 56 cm 650B was the right size.  So it got the saddle, all checked out & 
> away the customer went.  On his return, while he & Roman discussed the 
> differences between Atlantis & Appaloosa, and Roman worked up a couple of 
> sample builds for him, I took off on the Atlantis, "just for fun".  Oh boy, 
> was that a most pleasant surprise!
> 
> I've had my 58 cm, 700c wheeled Atlantis since 2003.  We've covered a lot of 
> ground.  By the time I got to the end of the building, I thought "this is 
> really different, in a really GOOD way".  The bike felt more responsive in 
> all respects.  It was shod with chubbier tires than the 40 mms on my bike.  
> Of course it had no load, just a small front rack.  Being new, all the clicks 
> clicked perfectly and the brakes braked.  Still, it was the RIDE that was 
> noticeable.  
> 
> The smaller wheel size must have something to do with it.  The chainstays are 
> 2 cm longer than mine.  The TT has a tad more slope.  What other subtle 
> improvements have been made to take an already fine riding bike & turn it 
> into a magical experience?  Normally I'm quite skeptical of small changes 
> making big differences in already nice things, but in this case it's 
> definitely change for the better.  
> 
> BTW, Roman found a green Appaloosa frame that the customer couldn't take his 
> eyes off of.  My guess is he's close to New Bike Day.  Maybe Roman will post 
> photos?
> 
> dougP
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Re: [RBW] 650B Atlantis

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps the longer stays help? I know that my 2 later customs, with 44.5 cm
stays, handle much better than the shorter stayed '95 custom (~42.5) and
even than the Ram (43.5). And this despite what some would say are less
than optimal wheels -- ranging in size from 24" to 25" depending on tire,
currently 24.5" actual diameter. They are unerring straight or turning.

I've also found that weight distribution has a great deal to do with it;
that is, weight distribution relative to the geometry in question. There's
no doubt that my 2 customs handle better with a lower bar and more weight
on the front wheel -- sit up and beg, and the front end gets a wee bit
light for ideal handling.

But to improve on what has been a long-time Rivendell benchmark, that's
rather impressive. I'd be interested in others' impressions comparing the
old versus new, and 700C versus 650B.

Perhaps Rivendell staff can speak up?


On Fri, Jun 30, 2017 at 12:44 PM, dougP  wrote:

>
> The smaller wheel size must have something to do with it.  The chainstays
> are 2 cm longer than mine.  The TT has a tad more slope.  What other subtle
> improvements have been made to take an already fine riding bike & turn it
> into a magical experience?  Normally I'm quite skeptical of small changes
> making big differences in already nice things, but in this case it's
> definitely change for the better.
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] 650B Atlantis

[dougP]

On my way to the West Point Inn weekend, I stopped by RBWHQ just to hang 
out & check out all the new goodies.  As luck would have it, Roman was 
working with a potential customer, helping him sort out the Appaloosa, 
Atlantis & Clem question.  The guy had been riding old bikes for a long 
time & felt it was about time to get something really nice.  After he took 
off on Grant's personal Appaloosa (he intends to commute so all the junk on 
the bike was a good simulated load), Roman walked me thru all the changes 
on the new Atlantis & offered to slap a saddle on a 56 cm , 650B.  Since I 
really wasn't buying anything, I declined the ride.  

After a while the guy came back, thoroughly smitten with the Appaloosa, and 
asking about what was the next level up?  Of course it's the Atlantis, and 
the 56 cm 650B was the right size.  So it got the saddle, all checked out & 
away the customer went.  On his return, while he & Roman discussed the 
differences between Atlantis & Appaloosa, and Roman worked up a couple of 
sample builds for him, I took off on the Atlantis, "just for fun".  Oh boy, 
was that a most pleasant surprise!

I've had my 58 cm, 700c wheeled Atlantis since 2003.  We've covered a lot 
of ground.  By the time I got to the end of the building, I thought "this 
is really different, in a really GOOD way".  The bike felt more responsive 
in all respects.  It was shod with chubbier tires than the 40 mms on my 
bike.  Of course it had no load, just a small front rack.  Being new, all 
the clicks clicked perfectly and the brakes braked.  Still, it was the RIDE 
that was noticeable.  

The smaller wheel size must have something to do with it.  The chainstays 
are 2 cm longer than mine.  The TT has a tad more slope.  What other subtle 
improvements have been made to take an already fine riding bike & turn it 
into a magical experience?  Normally I'm quite skeptical of small changes 
making big differences in already nice things, but in this case it's 
definitely change for the better.  

BTW, Roman found a green Appaloosa frame that the customer couldn't take 
his eyes off of.  My guess is he's close to New Bike Day.  Maybe Roman will 
post photos?

dougP

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Frank Brose]

Do it Max. You won't look back or be sorry. I have a 56 26" and love it but 
I also love 650b wheels as I have a couple of bikes with those as well. 
I'll be hard pressed to not sell mine and pony up the extra cash for a 650b 
model. I'll wait for the geometry charts.
Frank

On Sunday, November 6, 2016 at 8:34:37 AM UTC-6, Max S wrote:
>
> ooh!... I'd been trying to save up for a 56cm / 650b Hunqapillar, but now 
> that there's a 650b Atlantis... 
>
> - Max
>
> On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 9:42:18 PM UTC-4, drew wrote:
>>
>> Aren't they going proportional? Big-700c, medium-650b, small-26". That 
>> was my take. I have a beloved 700c hunq, but a 56cm with 650b is s 
>> damn tempting. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Max S]

ooh!... I'd been trying to save up for a 56cm / 650b Hunqapillar, but now 
that there's a 650b Atlantis... 

- Max

On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 9:42:18 PM UTC-4, drew wrote:
>
> Aren't they going proportional? Big-700c, medium-650b, small-26". That was 
> my take. I have a beloved 700c hunq, but a 56cm with 650b is s damn 
> tempting. 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[Ray Varella]

Does anyone know which sizes will sport the 650b wheel size?

Ray
Vallejo CA

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[twowheeledtexan]

>
> I've had a 56cm 650b Hunq on order since August. Don't know when it'll get 
> here, but can't wait!



On Friday, November 4, 2016 at 6:42:18 PM UTC-7, drew wrote:
>
> Aren't they going proportional? Big-700c, medium-650b, small-26". That was 
> my take. I have a beloved 700c hunq, but a 56cm with 650b is s damn 
> tempting. 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[drew]

It's a 54, and it's essentially perfect. I'll keep it and be happy. Id, I 
think, fit a 56 a little better and I'm a fan of smaller wheels, aesthetically. 
That's all. Zero complaints about my hunq though. 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[iamkeith]

How big is your current Hunq, Drew?  I've  been waiting for a 56 size since day 
1, but am having a hard time seeing the benefit of 650b over 29er wheels for 
the type of riding I'd expect that bike to encounter.  I totally get it with 
the Atlantis, being more road-oriented.  Does the 700c hunq have toe overlap 
problems with the front wheel or something?

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis Pic on the BLUG

[drew]

Aren't they going proportional? Big-700c, medium-650b, small-26". That was my 
take. I have a beloved 700c hunq, but a 56cm with 650b is s damn 
tempting. 

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[ilter]

Leslie,

I was wondering the same, unfortunately a 700c-to-650b conversion seems 
unlikely with those Paul brakes. Does anyone know of a brake that would 
work ?

You can see the brake close-up in this (very large) photo of Tom N.`s 
Atlantis:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75638054@N03/6943765065/sizes/k/in/photostream/

To go from 559mm rim to 650b (584mm), brake pads move 12.5mm up.
To go from 700c (622mm) to 650b (584mm), brake pads move 19mm down.
Assuming all else is the same, pads need to move 31.5mm down from their 
position in the photo, but there seems to be not that much room :(

Btw, the brakes seems to Paul Motolite`s
http://paulcomp.com/motolite.html

ilter

On Monday, July 9, 2012 7:33:52 PM UTC-5, Leslie wrote:

 Yup, those are Paul's on it; I wonder if Paul's adjustability would help 
 make a 700c-to-650b possible Hmmm


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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[johnb]

Anyone ever do it with a smaller one? I have a 52...

Though I just got the Compass 26 tires. They ride amazingly well.




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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Leslie]

That's another good point, regarding the 700c ones...  Grant had 
recommended NOT doing a Ram, because of its low BB, and the 700c Atlantis 
looks to be lower than it.Looking at the geo-charts at Rivbike, I 
started looking at the Hilsens, since it has a 650b version and a 700c 
version;  the smaller 700c ones have a really low BB, the bigger ones have 
a higher BB...   

So, yeah... 26 Atlantis can go 650b, but a 700c shouldn't, it seems


On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:13:16 AM UTC-4, Peter M wrote:

 In addition, wouldnt how low the BB is gonna go be an issue? I know Rivs 
 have pretty low bbs to begin with so not sure if I would want to lower it 
 another 3ish cm. 

 On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 9:03 PM, ilter ilt...@gmail.com wrote:

 Leslie,

 I was wondering the same, unfortunately a 700c-to-650b conversion seems 
 unlikely with those Paul brakes. Does anyone know of a brake that would 
 work ?

 You can see the brake close-up in this (very large) photo of Tom N.`s 
 Atlantis:
 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/75638054@N03/6943765065/sizes/k/in/photostream/

 To go from 559mm rim to 650b (584mm), brake pads move 12.5mm up.
 To go from 700c (622mm) to 650b (584mm), brake pads move 19mm down.
 Assuming all else is the same, pads need to move 31.5mm down from their 
 position in the photo, but there seems to be not that much room :(

 Btw, the brakes seems to Paul Motolite`s
 http://paulcomp.com/motolite.html

 ilter


 On Monday, July 9, 2012 7:33:52 PM UTC-5, Leslie wrote:

 Yup, those are Paul's on it; I wonder if Paul's adjustability would help 
 make a 700c-to-650b possible Hmmm

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Thomas Nezovich]

Leslie,  the fenders are leftovers from the previous 26 inch tires.  They were  
26x1.75 Paselas and they ended up about 42 mm wide or about the same as the 
Hetres.   I don't know about Quasimotos but the largest tires I had on the 
Atlantis when using 26 inch wheels were   50 mm Marathons which were near to 50 
mm on Rhynolites.
On Jul 9, 2012, at 11:00 PM, Leslie wrote:

 Thx;  good point on the Paul posts allowing the pads to slide UP; If I'd 
 thought through more earlier, I'd hopefully have realized, a 700c would have 
 to have the posts lowered, or switch to sidepulls which, isn't going to 
 happen w/ an Atlantis)...
 
 But, good to know, you can fender Hetres on it... That's good...  w/o 
 fenders, how big of a tire could you fit? Quasimotos?
 
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[RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Leslie]

I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...


As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?  

Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?


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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Peter Morgano]

Its been done, search the list archive, but I think it only worked from 26
to 650b, 700c to 650b didnt have enough down slot on the brakes.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Leslie leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...


 As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?

 Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?


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RE: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Here's a beautiful example from this year's Riv Rally East. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/7107683779/in/set-72157629518934850  
It belongs to Tom Nezovich, from somewhere in Ohio (I think). From the comment 
on the photo, it sounds like there are others out there.  Tom's pretty tall; 
I'd be surprised if this was a 26 inch Atlantis, but I could be wrong.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Morgano
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:04 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

Its been done, search the list archive, but I think it only worked from 26 to 
650b, 700c to 650b didnt have enough down slot on the brakes.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Leslie 
leslie.bri...@gmail.commailto:leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...


As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?

Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?



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RE: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Whoops, it was 559 -- here's a pic from before Tom did the conversion.  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/75638054@N03/6796737106/in/photostream/


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Allingham II, Thomas J
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:20 PM
To: 'rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com'
Subject: RE: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

Here's a beautiful example from this year's Riv Rally East. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/7107683779/in/set-72157629518934850  
It belongs to Tom Nezovich, from somewhere in Ohio (I think). From the comment 
on the photo, it sounds like there are others out there.  Tom's pretty tall; 
I'd be surprised if this was a 26 inch Atlantis, but I could be wrong.


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Morgano
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:04 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

Its been done, search the list archive, but I think it only worked from 26 to 
650b, 700c to 650b didnt have enough down slot on the brakes.

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Leslie 
leslie.bri...@gmail.commailto:leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...


As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?

Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?



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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Brevivelo]

It looks like a 58cm but I could be wrong too, but if it were a 700c 
I'd have concerns with BB height I would think. That looks plenty high 
leading me to think the frame could well be a 26 56cm set up. Also the 
rear tire at least is filling the frame nicely.
 
I have 700c atlantis running v brakes and a 650b wheelset, will throw on 
the rims in the next couple of days and report. Current 650b tires are 
schwalbe marathons

On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 5:19:55 AM UTC+10, Pudge wrote:

  Here's a beautiful example from this year's Riv Rally East. 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/7107683779/in/set-72157629518934850 
  
 It belongs to Tom Nezovich, from somewhere in Ohio (I think). From the 
 comment on the photo, it sounds like there are others out there.  Tom's 
 pretty tall; I'd be surprised if this was a 26 inch Atlantis, but I could 
 be wrong.

  --
 *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:
 rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Morgano
 *Sent:* Monday, July 09, 2012 3:04 PM
 *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

 Its been done, search the list archive, but I think it only worked from 
 26 to 650b, 700c to 650b didnt have enough down slot on the brakes. 

 On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Leslie leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...


 As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?  

 Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?


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 the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions 
 or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any 
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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Brevivelo]

Sorry about double post ...but there is something going on with the brakes 
there too, Pauls?

On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 10:05:59 AM UTC+10, Brevivelo wrote:

 It looks like a 58cm but I could be wrong too, but if it were a 700c 
 I'd have concerns with BB height I would think. That looks plenty high 
 leading me to think the frame could well be a 26 56cm set up. Also the 
 rear tire at least is filling the frame nicely.
  
 I have 700c atlantis running v brakes and a 650b wheelset, will throw on 
 the rims in the next couple of days and report. Current 650b tires are 
 schwalbe marathons

 On Tuesday, July 10, 2012 5:19:55 AM UTC+10, Pudge wrote:

  Here's a beautiful example from this year's Riv Rally East. 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/7107683779/in/set-72157629518934850
   
 It belongs to Tom Nezovich, from somewhere in Ohio (I think). From the 
 comment on the photo, it sounds like there are others out there.  Tom's 
 pretty tall; I'd be surprised if this was a 26 inch Atlantis, but I could 
 be wrong.

  --
 *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:
 rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Morgano
 *Sent:* Monday, July 09, 2012 3:04 PM
 *To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
 *Subject:* Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

 Its been done, search the list archive, but I think it only worked from 
 26 to 650b, 700c to 650b didnt have enough down slot on the brakes. 

 On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Leslie leslie.bri...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...


 As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?  

 Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?


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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Leslie]

Yup, those are Paul's on it; I wonder if Paul's adjustability would help make a 
700c-to-650b possible Hmmm

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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Thomas Nezovich]

Back to the computer late today.My 650B  Atlantis is  a 56 cm  made for 26 
(559 bead seat diameter) wheels.  I really like it as a 650B bike.  I like it 
so much I acquired a 58 cm LHT ( 26 inch wheels)  for load em up touring duty.  
 I'm a little over six feet tall but long trunk and relatively short legs.
I really like the Hetres.   I was pleased they weren't too bad in the snow on 
the Riv Rally East this year.
Oh,  the brakes are Paul Moto BMX:  their v-brakes with the long smooth posts 
for greater adjustability  UP only.
On Jul 9, 2012, at 3:01 PM, Leslie wrote:

 I'm pondering all sorts of things this afternoon...
 
 
 As anyone ever done a 650b conversion on an Atlantis?  
 
 Either, a 56 (26-wheeled), or a 58 (700c-wheeled)?
 
 
 
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Re: [RBW] 650b Atlantis?

[Leslie]

Thx;  good point on the Paul posts allowing the pads to slide UP; If I'd 
thought through more earlier, I'd hopefully have realized, a 700c would have to 
have the posts lowered, or switch to sidepulls which, isn't going to happen w/ 
an Atlantis)...

But, good to know, you can fender Hetres on it... That's good...  w/o fenders, 
how big of a tire could you fit? Quasimotos?

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