[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Ben Adrian]

I love the idea of downtube shifters; simplicity, good looks, easy packing, 
disassembly, and repair, etc. However, as soon as I'm off road, bar-end 
shifters become much nicer and down tube is a giant pain.

Right now, I have downtube shifters on my Ram. However, I'm still getting 
my bars and stem length set up. Once I have a setup that I like, I might 
move my shifters. I think the plan is to just use DTs until they drive me 
crazy... then I'll switch ;)

Ben

On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:26:43 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> DT for front is great because it's an occasional reach for one or two big 
> shifts but I've never gotten along well with it for the rear, I run my bars 
> too high for the reach to work for me. It's probably fine if your bars are 
> at or below saddle level. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 11:01:06 AM UTC-8 atreya...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer build. 
>> I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
>> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
>> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
>> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
>> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
>> groups thoughts and experience.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Kushan]

One way to think about DT shifters is that they are above the same level 
(or slightly less stretch) as the top of your water bottle when it is 
mounted on the downtube. For a given bike set up (geometry, seat height, or 
stem height etc), you can simulate DT shifter experience by touching the 
top of your bottle. If you have non-DT shifters now, on your next ride, 
touch the top of your water bottle every time you are shifting gear and 
that might give you a "reasonable" estimate for what the change might feel 
like. Of course, this method doesn't account for the fact that most people 
with DT shifters will compensate to some degree by shifting less 
frequently. 

On Sunday, December 26, 2021 at 6:15:59 AM UTC-8 MoVelo wrote:

> Steve
>
> At the risk of seeming to high jack this thread...
>
> Still using and liking the Inolights too. Have them on a couple of bikes. 
> I suspect there are better ones out there. 
>
>
> jp, NE
>
> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 1:21:17 PM UTC-6 steve wrote:
>
>> I guess I’m not the only one still using Inolights!
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-5 KenP wrote:
>>
>>> I have tried four ways.  I like thumb shifters the best on upright bars 
>>> because my hands are usually on the grips and there is immediate reach.  
>>> The second choice for upright bars are the bar ends which are close at 
>>> hand.  This is important because when I used down tube shifters and had to 
>>> stop very quickly I have ended up in a too tall gear on startup.  When I 
>>> have tried to downshift first, I have almost missed the traffic stoplight.  
>>> It's not too difficult to remove the grips to change upright bars. For the 
>>> wrapped drop bars I find I prefer the stem mount solution and have learned 
>>> to reach them quickly.  That has made bar swap easier and gives me room to 
>>> put a bar end mirror.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:01:06 PM UTC-5 atreya...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer 
 build. I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
 “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
 racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
 considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
 downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
 groups thoughts and experience.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Fullylugged]

I have 2 bikes set up each way (2 Rivendell and 2 Rivendell-ish).  I prefer 
the DT shifters, but both are okay.  The bar ends tend to bump things while 
you are handling the bike from storage to the bike rack, etc and you'll be 
out of gear. Neither is hard to get to, once you have a feel for where they 
are.

On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 4:55:24 PM UTC-6 Garth wrote:

> I can't think of a right or wrong placement for shifters. or shifting 
> too soon, too late, too much or too little ((( laughing ))). I mean hey , I 
> hop on the bike, I pedal and the bike goes, and shifting just happens along 
> the way like all the rest of the scenery. If I told you a 
> "how/why/etc." it all works I'd be assuming there even is a "how/why/etc." 
> that could be articulated, let alone formed. I think Life is more Grand 
> than any idea of or about Life could ever be formed by Life, about Life. 
> This is who "We" are, after all . 
> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 4:29:59 PM UTC-5 RichS wrote:
>
>> My experiences mirror some of the other responses here. My last shifter 
>> setup on an Atlantis also employed the dt shifter for the front and bar end 
>> for the rear. Worked very nicely using a an original Silver up front and a 
>> Shimano DuraAce for the rear. My SamH uses DuraAce bar ends front and rear 
>> (For me the DA bar ends provide a superb friction shifting experience; 
>> always reliable, no slipping).
>>
>> Alternatively, my Coast and Mercian both use Silver dt shifters. I'm not 
>> tall so the reach down isn't onerous. I do like that I have to move my 
>> right hand periodically.
>> Aesthetically these two bikes just look right with the downtubers; 
>> functionally speaking, no problems. 
>>
>> The fact that your Homer has the flexibility to experiment with shifting 
>> options is great. Go with whatever you feel at the moment is right and 
>> enjoy the ride!
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>>
>> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-5 KenP wrote:
>>
>>> I have tried four ways.  I like thumb shifters the best on upright bars 
>>> because my hands are usually on the grips and there is immediate reach.  
>>> The second choice for upright bars are the bar ends which are close at 
>>> hand.  This is important because when I used down tube shifters and had to 
>>> stop very quickly I have ended up in a too tall gear on startup.  When I 
>>> have tried to downshift first, I have almost missed the traffic stoplight.  
>>> It's not too difficult to remove the grips to change upright bars. For the 
>>> wrapped drop bars I find I prefer the stem mount solution and have learned 
>>> to reach them quickly.  That has made bar swap easier and gives me room to 
>>> put a bar end mirror.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:01:06 PM UTC-5 atreya...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer 
 build. I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
 “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
 racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
 considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
 downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
 groups thoughts and experience.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Garth]

I can't think of a right or wrong placement for shifters. or shifting 
too soon, too late, too much or too little ((( laughing ))). I mean hey , I 
hop on the bike, I pedal and the bike goes, and shifting just happens along 
the way like all the rest of the scenery. If I told you a 
"how/why/etc." it all works I'd be assuming there even is a "how/why/etc." 
that could be articulated, let alone formed. I think Life is more Grand 
than any idea of or about Life could ever be formed by Life, about Life. 
This is who "We" are, after all . 
On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 4:29:59 PM UTC-5 RichS wrote:

> My experiences mirror some of the other responses here. My last shifter 
> setup on an Atlantis also employed the dt shifter for the front and bar end 
> for the rear. Worked very nicely using a an original Silver up front and a 
> Shimano DuraAce for the rear. My SamH uses DuraAce bar ends front and rear 
> (For me the DA bar ends provide a superb friction shifting experience; 
> always reliable, no slipping).
>
> Alternatively, my Coast and Mercian both use Silver dt shifters. I'm not 
> tall so the reach down isn't onerous. I do like that I have to move my 
> right hand periodically.
> Aesthetically these two bikes just look right with the downtubers; 
> functionally speaking, no problems. 
>
> The fact that your Homer has the flexibility to experiment with shifting 
> options is great. Go with whatever you feel at the moment is right and 
> enjoy the ride!
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-5 KenP wrote:
>
>> I have tried four ways.  I like thumb shifters the best on upright bars 
>> because my hands are usually on the grips and there is immediate reach.  
>> The second choice for upright bars are the bar ends which are close at 
>> hand.  This is important because when I used down tube shifters and had to 
>> stop very quickly I have ended up in a too tall gear on startup.  When I 
>> have tried to downshift first, I have almost missed the traffic stoplight.  
>> It's not too difficult to remove the grips to change upright bars. For the 
>> wrapped drop bars I find I prefer the stem mount solution and have learned 
>> to reach them quickly.  That has made bar swap easier and gives me room to 
>> put a bar end mirror.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:01:06 PM UTC-5 atreya...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer 
>>> build. I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
>>> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
>>> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
>>> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
>>> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
>>> groups thoughts and experience.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[RichS]

My experiences mirror some of the other responses here. My last shifter 
setup on an Atlantis also employed the dt shifter for the front and bar end 
for the rear. Worked very nicely using a an original Silver up front and a 
Shimano DuraAce for the rear. My SamH uses DuraAce bar ends front and rear 
(For me the DA bar ends provide a superb friction shifting experience; 
always reliable, no slipping).

Alternatively, my Coast and Mercian both use Silver dt shifters. I'm not 
tall so the reach down isn't onerous. I do like that I have to move my 
right hand periodically.
Aesthetically these two bikes just look right with the downtubers; 
functionally speaking, no problems. 

The fact that your Homer has the flexibility to experiment with shifting 
options is great. Go with whatever you feel at the moment is right and 
enjoy the ride!

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-5 KenP wrote:

> I have tried four ways.  I like thumb shifters the best on upright bars 
> because my hands are usually on the grips and there is immediate reach.  
> The second choice for upright bars are the bar ends which are close at 
> hand.  This is important because when I used down tube shifters and had to 
> stop very quickly I have ended up in a too tall gear on startup.  When I 
> have tried to downshift first, I have almost missed the traffic stoplight.  
> It's not too difficult to remove the grips to change upright bars. For the 
> wrapped drop bars I find I prefer the stem mount solution and have learned 
> to reach them quickly.  That has made bar swap easier and gives me room to 
> put a bar end mirror.
>
>
> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:01:06 PM UTC-5 atreya...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer build. 
>> I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
>> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
>> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
>> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
>> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
>> groups thoughts and experience.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[atreya...@gmail.com]

Thanks so much for all the inputs . It was very helpful. I will start of 
with downtube for front and bar end for rear, so that I get a feel for what 
works  and a later point convert if need be . I am planning to route cable 
housing for barends outside the handle bar wrap , may be secure it using 
twine . I am also doing non aero brake levers ; so this should save me from 
re-wrapping while I settle on final configuration.

Thanks,
Deepak 

On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 11:21:17 AM UTC-8 steve wrote:

> I guess I’m not the only one still using Inolights!
>
>
> On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-5 KenP wrote:
>
>> I have tried four ways.  I like thumb shifters the best on upright bars 
>> because my hands are usually on the grips and there is immediate reach.  
>> The second choice for upright bars are the bar ends which are close at 
>> hand.  This is important because when I used down tube shifters and had to 
>> stop very quickly I have ended up in a too tall gear on startup.  When I 
>> have tried to downshift first, I have almost missed the traffic stoplight.  
>> It's not too difficult to remove the grips to change upright bars. For the 
>> wrapped drop bars I find I prefer the stem mount solution and have learned 
>> to reach them quickly.  That has made bar swap easier and gives me room to 
>> put a bar end mirror.
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:01:06 PM UTC-5 atreya...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer 
>>> build. I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
>>> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
>>> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
>>> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
>>> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
>>> groups thoughts and experience.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[steve]

I guess I’m not the only one still using Inolights!


On Saturday, December 25, 2021 at 10:11:48 AM UTC-5 KenP wrote:

> I have tried four ways.  I like thumb shifters the best on upright bars 
> because my hands are usually on the grips and there is immediate reach.  
> The second choice for upright bars are the bar ends which are close at 
> hand.  This is important because when I used down tube shifters and had to 
> stop very quickly I have ended up in a too tall gear on startup.  When I 
> have tried to downshift first, I have almost missed the traffic stoplight.  
> It's not too difficult to remove the grips to change upright bars. For the 
> wrapped drop bars I find I prefer the stem mount solution and have learned 
> to reach them quickly.  That has made bar swap easier and gives me room to 
> put a bar end mirror.
>
>
> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 2:01:06 PM UTC-5 atreya...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer build. 
>> I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
>> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
>> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
>> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
>> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
>> groups thoughts and experience.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Joe Bernard]

DT for front is great because it's an occasional reach for one or two big 
shifts but I've never gotten along well with it for the rear, I run my bars 
too high for the reach to work for me. It's probably fine if your bars are 
at or below saddle level. 

Joe Bernard

On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 11:01:06 AM UTC-8 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer build. 
> I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
> groups thoughts and experience.

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[aeroperf]

Downtube shifters have the advantage of simplicity and a shorter cable run.
However, they are most useful for road bikes with very aggressive riding 
position - where the seat is a good bit higher than the bars, and you can 
just move your hand to the downtube without bending farther.

Bar ends are a plus for more upright riding positions.
Look at it this way.  If you have to bend further to shift downtubes, 
whether riding drop or straight bars, then you really should be using bar 
ends.
Nothing says “missed shift” like having to change your riding position or 
(horrors) actually look for a shifter in the middle of a shift.

And… I live on a “relatively flat” bicycle trail, yet find myself shifting 
all the time.  With my road bike, not very aggressive position, downtube 
shifters, it is a pain to take one hand off the bars, bend over, and reach 
for the shifter.  That’s even if I’m riding the drops.  With my Sam and bar 
ends I just slide my hand back and use the heel of my palm, or little 
finger, to shift without losing my grip or bending over.
On my Homer, I used thumb shifters.  For me, not as comfortable as bar 
ends, but at least I didn't have to take my hand off the bars or my eyes 
off where I was going.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Ahmed Elgasseir]

I wholeheartedly agree with the honorable Mike Packard. I have DT shifters
on my Atlantis, Hillborne and Jitensha Ebisu.

Ahmed in San Mateo CA

On Fri, Dec 24, 2021 at 11:35 AM Mike Packard  wrote:

> I have DT on my Homer and like it for the following reasons
>
> - it makes me shift about 17% less often, which encourages more dynamic
> riding
> - as a perpetual handlebar switcher it just makes it a lot easier to not
> have to move shifters around
> - cleaner looks / less clutter up front. this is pretty minor to me but I
> do appreciate it sometimes
> - downflipped shifters won't bonk the top tube when the bars inevitable
> rotate too far
>
> Mike
> Austin
>
> On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 1:01:06 PM UTC-6 atreya...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer build.
>> I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how
>> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non
>> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also
>> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find
>> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear
>> groups thoughts and experience.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
-- 

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[RBW] Re: Bar end vs Downtube

[Mike Packard]

I have DT on my Homer and like it for the following reasons

- it makes me shift about 17% less often, which encourages more dynamic 
riding 
- as a perpetual handlebar switcher it just makes it a lot easier to not 
have to move shifters around 
- cleaner looks / less clutter up front. this is pretty minor to me but I 
do appreciate it sometimes
- downflipped shifters won't bonk the top tube when the bars inevitable 
rotate too far

Mike
Austin

On Friday, December 24, 2021 at 1:01:06 PM UTC-6 atreya...@gmail.com wrote:

> I am debating bar end vs down tube shifters for the upcoming homer build. 
> I like the simplicity and aesthetics of down tube but concerned how 
> “inconvenient “ they could be given longish geometry of rivs. For non 
> racing and just riding for pleasure usecases does it matter .I am also 
> considering going downtube for FD and bar end for RD. If over time I find 
> downtube comfortable enough switch both to downtube . Would love to hear 
> groups thoughts and experience.

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