Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Keith Weaver]

I have a Riv Road Standard with VO cranks and a Campy Nuovo Record FD, it
works great for me and I like using the vintage part.

Cheers,
Keith

On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 1:23 AM Garth  wrote:

> Those VO cranks with the straight arms all suggest a 118mm BB for a road
> double 43.5mm chainline. FD's with relatively flat/straight cages are made
> for such tight tolerances that come with straight arm doubles.  Here's a
> Campy Nuovo Record for example.
> [image: Campagnolo-nuovo-record-front-derailleur.jpeg]
>
> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-5 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
>> It's hard to say for sure from the picture, but it looks like your fd is
>> at a bit of an angle, and rotating it to straight might allow a bit more
>> crankarm clearance.
>>
>> Josiah Anderson
>> Missoula MT
>>
>> Le ven. 1 mars 2024 à 7:33 PM, Adam  a écrit :
>>
>>> Thanks all for the help.
>>>
>>> I got the VO cranks a week or so ago, and today finally had time to
>>> install them. The process was smooth, easy so far. No issues with the
>>> current BB, which I forgot to measure, but assume is either 113 or 115,
>>> based on the previous cranks. I don't think the picture below captures it
>>> well, but the 46 ring lines up just inside the middle of the cassette.
>>>
>>> I don't think the FD is going to work--it currently rubs the chain in
>>> the lower two sprockets on the cassette, BUT if I move it out so that it
>>> doesn't rub it hits the crank arm. Not sure the solution there? Do I need a
>>> different derailer? I'm assuming so, recommendations? I really may just
>>> pull it and go "manual" for now, since the 30 is more wishful thinking than
>>> part of regular rides around here.
>>>
>>> Any other thoughts?
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> [image: PXL_20240301_205017950.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-6 krisbu...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Adam

 I have the VO 50.4 bcd cranks on my Saluki and a 118mm bb was actually
 too short. I had to use a 122.5 and even that was pretty tight.

 -Kris

 On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Adam,
>
> I meant to add that prices on digital micrometers seem to have gone
> down over time. I replaced my old "analog" PITA micrometer on Amazon for
> twenty-five bucks. I would not go for the cheapest though. I opted for one
> with an auto "OFF" setting so you won't burn the battery out when you set
> it down and forget it.
>
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:55:25 PM UTC-5 Bikie#4646 wrote:
>
>> Adam,
>>
>> Just saying . If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful
>> when applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish
>> adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have
>> that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint
>> edge. Ask me how I know.
>>
>> Paul Germain
>> Midlothian, Va.
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>>
>>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option
>>> at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the 
>>> road.
>>>
>>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and
>>> this is my first attempt.
>>>
>>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm
>>> BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently 
>>> have
>>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to 
>>> know
>>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter
>>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>>
>>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO
>>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a
>>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if 
>>> so,
>>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops
>>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/866e8053-3cd8-4fa7-8a2e-2d2cb28d70b0n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
> You received this message 

Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Richard Rose]

I was thinking the very same.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 2, 2024, at 12:16 AM, Josiah Anderson  wrote:It's hard to say for sure from the picture, but it looks like your fd is at a bit of an angle, and rotating it to straight might allow a bit more crankarm clearance.Josiah AndersonMissoula MT Le ven. 1 mars 2024 à 7:33 PM, Adam  a écrit :Thanks all for the help.I got the VO cranks a week or so ago, and today finally had time to install them. The process was smooth, easy so far. No issues with the current BB, which I forgot to measure, but assume is either 113 or 115, based on the previous cranks. I don't think the picture below captures it well, but the 46 ring lines up just inside the middle of the cassette.I don't think the FD is going to work--it currently rubs the chain in the lower two sprockets on the cassette, BUT if I move it out so that it doesn't rub it hits the crank arm. Not sure the solution there? Do I need a different derailer? I'm assuming so, recommendations? I really may just pull it and go "manual" for now, since the 30 is more wishful thinking than part of regular rides around here.Any other thoughts?AdamOn Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-6 krisbu...@gmail.com wrote:AdamI have the VO 50.4 bcd cranks on my Saluki and a 118mm bb was actually too short. I had to use a 122.5 and even that was pretty tight.-KrisOn Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:Adam,I meant to add that prices on digital micrometers seem to have gone down over time. I replaced my old "analog" PITA micrometer on Amazon for twenty-five bucks. I would not go for the cheapest though. I opted for one with an auto "OFF" setting so you won't burn the battery out when you set it down and forget it.Paul GermainMidlothian, Va.On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:55:25 PM UTC-5 Bikie#4646 wrote:Adam,Just saying . If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful when applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint edge. Ask me how I know.Paul GermainMidlothian, Va.On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:Hi all,A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this is my first attempt.I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)Thanks!Adam



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Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Garth]

Those VO cranks with the straight arms all suggest a 118mm BB for a road 
double 43.5mm chainline. FD's with relatively flat/straight cages are made 
for such tight tolerances that come with straight arm doubles.  Here's a 
Campy Nuovo Record for example. 
[image: Campagnolo-nuovo-record-front-derailleur.jpeg]

On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 12:16:27 AM UTC-5 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> It's hard to say for sure from the picture, but it looks like your fd is 
> at a bit of an angle, and rotating it to straight might allow a bit more 
> crankarm clearance.
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula MT 
>
> Le ven. 1 mars 2024 à 7:33 PM, Adam  a écrit :
>
>> Thanks all for the help.
>>
>> I got the VO cranks a week or so ago, and today finally had time to 
>> install them. The process was smooth, easy so far. No issues with the 
>> current BB, which I forgot to measure, but assume is either 113 or 115, 
>> based on the previous cranks. I don't think the picture below captures it 
>> well, but the 46 ring lines up just inside the middle of the cassette.
>>
>> I don't think the FD is going to work--it currently rubs the chain in the 
>> lower two sprockets on the cassette, BUT if I move it out so that it 
>> doesn't rub it hits the crank arm. Not sure the solution there? Do I need a 
>> different derailer? I'm assuming so, recommendations? I really may just 
>> pull it and go "manual" for now, since the 30 is more wishful thinking than 
>> part of regular rides around here.
>>
>> Any other thoughts?
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> [image: PXL_20240301_205017950.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, February 24, 2024 at 10:47:54 AM UTC-6 krisbu...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> I have the VO 50.4 bcd cranks on my Saluki and a 118mm bb was actually 
>>> too short. I had to use a 122.5 and even that was pretty tight.
>>>
>>> -Kris
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:
>>>
 Adam,

 I meant to add that prices on digital micrometers seem to have gone 
 down over time. I replaced my old "analog" PITA micrometer on Amazon for 
 twenty-five bucks. I would not go for the cheapest though. I opted for one 
 with an auto "OFF" setting so you won't burn the battery out when you set 
 it down and forget it.

 Paul Germain
 Midlothian, Va.

 On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:55:25 PM UTC-5 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Adam,
>
> Just saying . If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful 
> when applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish 
> adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have 
> that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint 
> edge. Ask me how I know.
>
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>
>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option 
>> at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the 
>> road.
>>
>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and 
>> this is my first attempt.
>>
>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm 
>> BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently 
>> have 
>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to 
>> know 
>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>
>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if 
>> so, 
>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/866e8053-3cd8-4fa7-8a2e-2d2cb28d70b0n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Kris Burns]

Adam

I have the VO 50.4 bcd cranks on my Saluki and a 118mm bb was actually too 
short. I had to use a 122.5 and even that was pretty tight.

-Kris

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:01:33 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Adam,
>
> I meant to add that prices on digital micrometers seem to have gone down 
> over time. I replaced my old "analog" PITA micrometer on Amazon for 
> twenty-five bucks. I would not go for the cheapest though. I opted for one 
> with an auto "OFF" setting so you won't burn the battery out when you set 
> it down and forget it.
>
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:55:25 PM UTC-5 Bikie#4646 wrote:
>
>> Adam,
>>
>> Just saying . If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful when 
>> applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish 
>> adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have 
>> that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint 
>> edge. Ask me how I know.
>>
>> Paul Germain
>> Midlothian, Va.
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>>
>>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>>
>>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>>> is my first attempt.
>>>
>>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>>
>>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

['Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Adam,

I meant to add that prices on digital micrometers seem to have gone down 
over time. I replaced my old "analog" PITA micrometer on Amazon for 
twenty-five bucks. I would not go for the cheapest though. I opted for one 
with an auto "OFF" setting so you won't burn the battery out when you set 
it down and forget it.

Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.

On Saturday, February 17, 2024 at 10:55:25 PM UTC-5 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Adam,
>
> Just saying . If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful when 
> applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish 
> adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have 
> that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint 
> edge. Ask me how I know.
>
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>
>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>
>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>> is my first attempt.
>>
>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>
>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

['Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Adam,

Just saying . If you like the paint job on your bike, be mindful when 
applying muscle to the BB remover tool. You'll be using a heavy-ish 
adjustable wrench. So, adjust it so it's snug. It's pretty easy to have 
that tool come out and the wrench can chip the vulnerable BB shell paint 
edge. Ask me how I know.

Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>
> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at the 
> price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>
> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
> is my first attempt.
>
> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. I 
> have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have either 
> a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know is to 
> remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter spindle on 
> their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>
> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Adam
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[RichS]

Adam, you've already gotten plenty of good advice but I'll add this video 
of Mark at Riv installing a BB. Good on you for doing this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwjnZfNO1DE

Best of luck,
Rich in ATL

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 8:46:33 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> If the BB spindle you're testing out is too short yes, a chainring with 
> hit the chainstay. If you slide it on and there's no resistance as the ring 
> gets close..STOP. Not gonna work, pull the crank back and prepare to pull 
> that BB and get a longer one in there. 
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:53:49 PM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all of the tips.
>>
>> I appreciate the acknowledgement of the STAND. I do not have one and 
>> there's no chance of finding room for one in my apt. Someday that will 
>> change . . .
>>
>> I'm not sure what a crank bolt washer looks like? Maybe I'll know when I 
>> see it. I'm assuming it would be under the initial bolt--revealed when I 
>> remove that? And I gather that I should be aware that the small ring may 
>> hit the chainstays as I'm putting on the new crank? Good to know.
>>
>> It will be a bit before I get the cranks and have time to work, but I'll 
>> post back here with the result. Maybe useful for anyone with a Sam that 
>> wants to try a 115mm bb with VO cranks.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 5:00:46 PM UTC-6 Jingy wrote:
>>
>>> Also, if you do end up removing the BB, the drive side is 
>>> reverse-threaded, so lefty-tighty, righty-loosey.
>>> Jim in Mpls
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 4:40:51 PM UTC-6 Drurad (Sacramento) 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I second the disclaimer to check for washer prior to using crank 
 puller.  

 -Andrew

 On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:32 PM Shoji Takahashi  
 wrote:

> Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put 
> on the crank puller!
>
> good luck,
> shoji
> Arlington MA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:48:29 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  
>>
>> Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held 
>> in a proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing 
>> it 
>> on the ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the 
>> barrier.  There is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a 
>> bike without a work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's 
>> always 
>> harder.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical 
>>> maneuvers, and has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means 
>>> go 
>>> for it.  
>>>
>>> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need 
>>> are:
>>>
>>> -pedal wrench
>>> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
>>> socket, maybe both
>>> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank 
>>> puller
>>>
>>> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and 
>>> test fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap 
>>> caliper 
>>> would be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring 
>>> will 
>>> hit the frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already 
>>> crashed your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  
>>> Aside 
>>> from that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm 
>>> would be a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>>>
>>> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  
>>> In some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an 
>>> issue.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my 
 Hillborne.

 I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option 
 at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the 
 road.

 A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and 
 this is my first attempt.

 I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 
 118mm BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I 
 currently 
 have either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way 
 to 
 know is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a 
 shorter 
 spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?

 My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks 

Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Joe Bernard]

If the BB spindle you're testing out is too short yes, a chainring with hit 
the chainstay. If you slide it on and there's no resistance as the ring 
gets close..STOP. Not gonna work, pull the crank back and prepare to pull 
that BB and get a longer one in there. 

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:53:49 PM UTC-8 Adam wrote:

> Thanks for all of the tips.
>
> I appreciate the acknowledgement of the STAND. I do not have one and 
> there's no chance of finding room for one in my apt. Someday that will 
> change . . .
>
> I'm not sure what a crank bolt washer looks like? Maybe I'll know when I 
> see it. I'm assuming it would be under the initial bolt--revealed when I 
> remove that? And I gather that I should be aware that the small ring may 
> hit the chainstays as I'm putting on the new crank? Good to know.
>
> It will be a bit before I get the cranks and have time to work, but I'll 
> post back here with the result. Maybe useful for anyone with a Sam that 
> wants to try a 115mm bb with VO cranks.
>
> Adam
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 5:00:46 PM UTC-6 Jingy wrote:
>
>> Also, if you do end up removing the BB, the drive side is 
>> reverse-threaded, so lefty-tighty, righty-loosey.
>> Jim in Mpls
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 4:40:51 PM UTC-6 Drurad (Sacramento) 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I second the disclaimer to check for washer prior to using crank 
>>> puller.  
>>>
>>> -Andrew
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:32 PM Shoji Takahashi  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put on 
 the crank puller!

 good luck,
 shoji
 Arlington MA

 On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:48:29 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  
>
> Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in 
> a proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on 
> the ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  
> There is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike 
> without 
> a work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, 
>> and has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>>
>> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>>
>> -pedal wrench
>> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
>> socket, maybe both
>> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank 
>> puller
>>
>> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and 
>> test fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap 
>> caliper 
>> would be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring 
>> will 
>> hit the frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already 
>> crashed your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  
>> Aside 
>> from that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm 
>> would be a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>>
>> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  
>> In some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an 
>> issue.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>>
>>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option 
>>> at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the 
>>> road.
>>>
>>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and 
>>> this is my first attempt.
>>>
>>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm 
>>> BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently 
>>> have 
>>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to 
>>> know 
>>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>>
>>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest 
>>> a 
>>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if 
>>> so, 
>>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>> -- 
 You received this message because 

Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Adam]

Thanks for all of the tips.

I appreciate the acknowledgement of the STAND. I do not have one and 
there's no chance of finding room for one in my apt. Someday that will 
change . . .

I'm not sure what a crank bolt washer looks like? Maybe I'll know when I 
see it. I'm assuming it would be under the initial bolt--revealed when I 
remove that? And I gather that I should be aware that the small ring may 
hit the chainstays as I'm putting on the new crank? Good to know.

It will be a bit before I get the cranks and have time to work, but I'll 
post back here with the result. Maybe useful for anyone with a Sam that 
wants to try a 115mm bb with VO cranks.

Adam

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 5:00:46 PM UTC-6 Jingy wrote:

> Also, if you do end up removing the BB, the drive side is 
> reverse-threaded, so lefty-tighty, righty-loosey.
> Jim in Mpls
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 4:40:51 PM UTC-6 Drurad (Sacramento) wrote:
>
>> I second the disclaimer to check for washer prior to using crank puller.  
>>
>> -Andrew
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:32 PM Shoji Takahashi  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put on 
>>> the crank puller!
>>>
>>> good luck,
>>> shoji
>>> Arlington MA
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:48:29 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  

 Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in 
 a proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on 
 the ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  
 There is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike 
 without 
 a work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, 
> and has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>
> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>
> -pedal wrench
> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
> socket, maybe both
> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank 
> puller
>
> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and 
> test fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap 
> caliper 
> would be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will 
> hit the frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already 
> crashed your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside 
> from that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm 
> would be a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>
> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>
>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option 
>> at the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the 
>> road.
>>
>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and 
>> this is my first attempt.
>>
>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm 
>> BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently 
>> have 
>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to 
>> know 
>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>
>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if 
>> so, 
>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/be309889-4fac-4fe5-8ab1-235eb3a11073n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Jingy]

Also, if you do end up removing the BB, the drive side is reverse-threaded, 
so lefty-tighty, righty-loosey.
Jim in Mpls

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 4:40:51 PM UTC-6 Drurad (Sacramento) wrote:

> I second the disclaimer to check for washer prior to using crank puller.  
>
> -Andrew
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:32 PM Shoji Takahashi  
> wrote:
>
>> Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put on 
>> the crank puller!
>>
>> good luck,
>> shoji
>> Arlington MA
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:48:29 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  
>>>
>>> Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in a 
>>> proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on the 
>>> ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  There 
>>> is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike without a 
>>> work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, 
 and has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  

 To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:

 -pedal wrench
 -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
 socket, maybe both
 -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller

 Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and 
 test fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper 
 would be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will 
 hit the frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already 
 crashed your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside 
 from that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm 
 would be a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  

 Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
 some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>
> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>
> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and 
> this is my first attempt.
>
> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm 
> BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>
> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Adam
>
> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/be309889-4fac-4fe5-8ab1-235eb3a11073n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Andrew MacDonald]

I second the disclaimer to check for washer prior to using crank puller.

-Andrew

On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 2:32 PM Shoji Takahashi 
wrote:

> Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put on
> the crank puller!
>
> good luck,
> shoji
> Arlington MA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:48:29 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.
>>
>> Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in a
>> proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on the
>> ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  There
>> is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike without a
>> work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers,
>>> and has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.
>>>
>>> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>>>
>>> -pedal wrench
>>> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm
>>> socket, maybe both
>>> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller
>>>
>>> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test
>>> fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would
>>> be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the
>>> frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed
>>> your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from
>>> that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be
>>> a concern for many.  3mm is ample.
>>>
>>> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In
>>> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.

 I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at
 the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.

 A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and
 this is my first attempt.

 I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm
 BB. I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have
 either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know
 is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter
 spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?

 My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO
 cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a
 problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so,
 any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops
 nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)

 Thanks!

 Adam

 --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/be309889-4fac-4fe5-8ab1-235eb3a11073n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Shoji Takahashi]

Also, check to make sure there's no crank bolt washer before you put on the 
crank puller!

good luck,
shoji
Arlington MA

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 3:48:29 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  
>
> Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in a 
> proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on the 
> ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  There 
> is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike without a 
> work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and 
>> has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>>
>> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>>
>> -pedal wrench
>> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
>> socket, maybe both
>> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller
>>
>> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test 
>> fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would 
>> be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the 
>> frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed 
>> your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from 
>> that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be 
>> a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>>
>> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
>> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>>
>>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>>
>>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>>> is my first attempt.
>>>
>>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>>
>>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Bill Lindsay]

I enumerated a list of tools, omitting the most critical one.  

Learning any mechanical manuever is a LOT easier with the bike held in a 
proper mechanic's work stand.  Every single is a LOT harder doing it on the 
ground or with the bike upside down.  The work stand is the barrier.  There 
is not a mechanic on earth who would prefer working on a bike without a 
work stand.  It's possible to get it done, but it's always harder.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and 
> has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>
> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>
> -pedal wrench
> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
> socket, maybe both
> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller
>
> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test 
> fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would 
> be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the 
> frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed 
> your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from 
> that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be 
> a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>
> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>
>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>
>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>> is my first attempt.
>>
>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>
>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[aeroperf]

Then, if you do need to replace the bottom bracket, you’ll need a tool like 
this to snug up the new one.
https://www.amazon.com/Park-Tool-BBT-22-Shimano-Cartridge/dp/B001A0AIAG/?th=1=1

I took my Sam to the LBS to take the old one out.  The guys in Taiwan (or 
at Rivendell) must have hydraulic hands when they install the bottom 
bracket.  It was really in there.


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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Adam]

Thanks all,

Great. I have the tools, just ordered the park crankpuller from VO with the 
cranks.

I'll give it a go and see what happens. I think I get the idea from the 
videos.

I don't have the cranks in hand yet, but once I sort it out, I'll post 
back, probably with questions about FDs and chainline. Since I haven't 
shifted my FD since moving to Chicago. . . I could also pull it altogether 
for a bit. I really miss climbing, but realistically that's a significant 
train or drive from anywhere I regularly ride, so manual front shifting is 
not a bad option for that rare occasion.

Best,

Adam

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:15:59 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Emphasizing one point Bill mentioned, slide the driveside crank on the 
> spindle SLOWLY and stop before you think a ring may hit the frame. Ask me 
> how I learned this! 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and 
>> has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>>
>> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>>
>> -pedal wrench
>> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
>> socket, maybe both
>> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller
>>
>> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test 
>> fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would 
>> be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the 
>> frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed 
>> your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from 
>> that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be 
>> a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>>
>> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
>> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>>
>>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>>
>>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>>> is my first attempt.
>>>
>>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>>
>>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Joe Bernard]

Emphasizing one point Bill mentioned, slide the driveside crank on the 
spindle SLOWLY and stop before you think a ring may hit the frame. Ask me 
how I learned this! 

Joe Bernard 

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:52:24 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and 
> has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>
> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>
> -pedal wrench
> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
> socket, maybe both
> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller
>
> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test 
> fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would 
> be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the 
> frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed 
> your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from 
> that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be 
> a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>
> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>
>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>
>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>> is my first attempt.
>>
>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>
>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[JohnS]

Hello Adam, 

I agree 100% with Bill and Steve's recommendations. A couple things to be 
aware of, make sure to put some grease on the puller before threading it 
onto the crank and to tighten with the adjustable wrench, it's possible to 
damage the crank arm treads otherwise. Second, the FD may need adjusting 
since the chainrings may not be exactly at the same locations as with the 
original cranks.

Good luck,
JohnS

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:52:24 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and 
> has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  
>
> To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:
>
> -pedal wrench
> -whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
> socket, maybe both
> -crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller
>
> Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test 
> fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would 
> be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the 
> frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed 
> your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from 
> that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be 
> a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  
>
> Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In 
> some narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>>
>> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at 
>> the price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>>
>> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
>> is my first attempt.
>>
>> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. 
>> I have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have 
>> either a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know 
>> is to remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter 
>> spindle on their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>>
>> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
>> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
>> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
>> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
>> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Steve]

Adam, good on you for planning to do the crank swap yourself  (you will 
likely want a crank puller  - 
https://www.parktool.com/en-us/product/universal-crank-puller-for-square-taper-and-splined-cranks-cwp-7
 
 & here's a link to Park's how to video - 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPQyQnNdews).

I'll cast a vote for mounting the new cranks on your existing BB and then 
checking the fit. You will be looking for two potential issues (1) adequate 
clearance between the drive side chain stay and the small chainring aa well 
as the chain itself, and (2) the chainline.   Good luck!   

Steve in Asheville 
On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 1:07:21 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>
> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at the 
> price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>
> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
> is my first attempt.
>
> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. I 
> have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have either 
> a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know is to 
> remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter spindle on 
> their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>
> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Adam
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset/BB question

[Bill Lindsay]

Generally speaking, anybody who wants to do new mechanical maneuvers, and 
has the will to purchase the right tools, by all means go for it.  

To swap out your crank set without swapping the BB, what you need are:

-pedal wrench
-whatever wrench you need for your crank bolts: Long 8mm allen, 14mm 
socket, maybe both
-crank puller, and maybe an adjustable wrench to drive your crank puller

Assuming you have all the above, absolutely pull your crank off and test 
fit the VO.  To measure the length of the existing BB a cheap caliper would 
be useful.  If your existing BB is "too short" your small ring will hit the 
frame and if you crank down the crank bolt AFTER you've already crashed 
your ring into the chain stay, then you'll do real damage.  Aside from 
that, any clearance is enough clearance, but crazy close, like 1mm would be 
a concern for many.  3mm is ample.  

Once you have clearance, it's up to you to worry about chain line.  In some 
narrow Q applications the front derailleur throw can be an issue.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, February 16, 2024 at 10:07:21 AM UTC-8 Adam wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> A while back I posted about low q, low-range cranks for my Hillborne.
>
> I just ordered one of the VO 46/30s, which seems like a good option at the 
> price. I'll use the stock rings first, then tweak them down the road.
>
> A few questions - I'm going to try the install myself--I think--and this 
> is my first attempt.
>
> I understand that the VO 46/30 is supposed to be paired with a 118mm BB. I 
> have read on here of folks using shorter spindles. I currently have either 
> a 113 or 115mm on the Hillborne. I'm assuming the only way to know is to 
> remove the cranks and measure? Has anyone here tried a shorter spindle on 
> their Hillborne with the VO cranks?
>
> My question - Should I try simply swapping cranks and see how the VO 
> cranks do at 115/113mm? If so, what would I be watching for to suggest a 
> problem? OR is this a dumb way to start tinkering with cranks? And if so, 
> any thoughts on swapping BB vs taking it a shop? (I have great shops 
> nearby, but like to gradually learn a few things every so often.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Adam
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[spencer robinson]

Sage advice Joe Bernard

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 9:02:54 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> You might want to let a bike shop dig into this unless you're committed to 
> buying two types of BB tools and learning all about it. I'm big on the 
> buying and learning, but it's not a small project for a first-timer and 
> you're not even sure where the problem is yet. Could be a headache!
>
> Joe "ok now I broke something else, this is getting expensive" Bernard 
>
> On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 7:42:47 AM UTC-7 Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, 
> NY) wrote:
>
>> I bought a mountain bike on Craigslist and have been using it with an 
>> Xtracycle Free Radical conversion for a few months as a kid hauler and 
>> cargo bike. The crankset and bottom bracket it came with are part of the 
>> Shimano Hollowtech group: BB is Shimano SM-BB51 
>> 
>>  and 
>> the crank is a Shimano XT two-piece compression thing like this 
>> 
>>  with 
>> a built in spindle. I've been having some issues with the crank creaking 
>> and popping when I ride and would like to replace it with something simpler 
>> and more classic looking, like a Riv Clipper wide/low 
>> 
>> . 
>>
>> Question is, do I have to replace the entire bottom bracket or can I use 
>> the SM-BB51 and install a new spindle? The current crankset has a spindle 
>> built in/attached.  Would this work? 
>> 
>>  
>> I'm kinda clueless when it comes to this Hollowtech stuff and not sure 
>> what's compatible/interchangeable. Thanks in advance. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[Joe Bernard]

You might want to let a bike shop dig into this unless you're committed to 
buying two types of BB tools and learning all about it. I'm big on the 
buying and learning, but it's not a small project for a first-timer and 
you're not even sure where the problem is yet. Could be a headache!

Joe "ok now I broke something else, this is getting expensive" Bernard 

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 7:42:47 AM UTC-7 Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, 
NY) wrote:

> I bought a mountain bike on Craigslist and have been using it with an 
> Xtracycle Free Radical conversion for a few months as a kid hauler and 
> cargo bike. The crankset and bottom bracket it came with are part of the 
> Shimano Hollowtech group: BB is Shimano SM-BB51 
> 
>  and 
> the crank is a Shimano XT two-piece compression thing like this 
> 
>  with 
> a built in spindle. I've been having some issues with the crank creaking 
> and popping when I ride and would like to replace it with something simpler 
> and more classic looking, like a Riv Clipper wide/low 
> 
> . 
>
> Question is, do I have to replace the entire bottom bracket or can I use 
> the SM-BB51 and install a new spindle? The current crankset has a spindle 
> built in/attached.  Would this work? 
> 
>  
> I'm kinda clueless when it comes to this Hollowtech stuff and not sure 
> what's compatible/interchangeable. Thanks in advance. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 9:45:23 AM UTC-7 aeroperf wrote:

> However, a failure mode for Hollowtech is the bottom bracket creaking, and 
> if you’re going to replace it, it is relatively easy.
> If you’re going to take the old one off and replace it with another BB51 
> (or SRAM equivalent), all you need is something like a Park Tool BBT-9.  
> “like” because JTDEAL makes one for less than half that price, etc.
> Save and reuse any spacers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZNJM1Hi7jc
>

Hate to contradict but don't get SRAM BB cups. They are usually GXP which 
is 24mm/22mm instead of the straight 24mm that Shimano Hollowtech cranks 
require. In other words, Shimano Hollowtech cranks won't fit SRAM GXP cups, 
and vice-versa, even though they are visually similar.

I second aeroperf's recommendation of taking a closer look at the BB. 
Hollowtech cranks are easy to disassemble, with a simple 5mm hex wrench, a 
rubber mallet (or a block of wood), and the special tool TL-FC16 for the 
pre-load cap (usually comes with the crank and shops will have excess that 
they may give you for free). Once the crank is out, you can manually feel 
for bearing roughness and determine if the bearings and thus cups actually 
need to come out; if they do, then you'll need the BBT-9 tool. Do note that 
there are plastic sleeves separating the cartridge bearings from the crank 
spindle for Shimano-branded BB cups; there's no metal-to-metal contact. The 
plastic sleeves deform slightly to help in alignment, and they are 
typically what creaks, especially if the bearings are reluctant to spin 
freely.

Good luck!

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[aeroperf]

What Benz said.  It may be from somewhere else - the pedals, or even the 
seat.

However, a failure mode for Hollowtech is the bottom bracket creaking, and 
if you’re going to replace it, it is relatively easy.
If you’re going to take the old one off and replace it with another BB51 
(or SRAM equivalent), all you need is something like a Park Tool BBT-9.  
“like” because JTDEAL makes one for less than half that price, etc.
Save and reuse any spacers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZNJM1Hi7jc

They do tend to look like the chainrings were stamped out of old garbage 
can lids, but Hollowtech cranks do have a nice stiff feel.  I’ve put them 
on a Homer, and a couple of other bikes, because I like that feel.



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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

Thanks Benz. It's tough to tell exactly where the pops and creaks are 
coming from but it seems to happen only during hard pedaling and kind of 
feels like it's coming from the left (non-drive side) crank arm which is 
attached with hex bolts. The whole crankset has always annoyed me, mostly 
aethetically with this hi-tech look, but I haven't bothered to tinker with 
it too much.  You're right–the Xtracylce extension could be part of the 
popping and creaking as well since it's attached pretty close to the crank 
area. I'll try to do some further investigation especially now that I know 
a crank replacement will require more than just a swap-out. 

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 12:12:12 PM UTC-4 Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA 
wrote:

> Justin, I will suggest investigating what's causing the creaking and 
> popping. Quite often, what appears to be from the crank may not actually be 
> from the crank. Especially with an Xtracycle Free Radical conversion, there 
> are more opportunities for creaks and pops. Unfortunately, troubleshooting 
> such a thing is best done with a bit of experience, so you may need to 
> bring it into a shop.
>
> On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 9:01:18 AM UTC-7 Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, 
> NY) wrote:
>
>> Okay thanks for the info. I'm not equipped or experienced with bottom 
>> bracket replacement which is why I was hoping to salvage what's already 
>> there and not have to remove and replace it. But maybe this is an 
>> opportunity for me to figure it out. Will need to invest in some tools I 
>> assume.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 11:45:57 AM UTC-4 aeroperf wrote:
>>
>>> Justin—
>>>
>>> To answer your last question first, no, that spindle won’t fit.
>>> Any way you look at it you would have to replace the entire bottom 
>>> bracket.
>>> The crank creaking and popping is more than likely due to the bottom 
>>> bracket itself.
>>>
>>> If you want the cheaper solution, just remove the crankset, and replace 
>>> the bottom bracket with a new BB51 or a Shimano BB-MT800.  These things are 
>>> only about $25 and can be replaced reasonably easily with the right tools.
>>>
>>> Are you dead set on the looks thing?
>>>
>>> You need to remove the bottom bracket, and replace the bottom bracket 
>>> with a square taper sealed unit like a UN-26.
>>>
>>> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-BB-UN26-Square-Bracket-68x113-mm/dp/B001EIAZ7A/r
>>>
>>> If it is a dedicated mountain bike, it will need a 73mm sealed unit.  
>>> You will also need to find the right width spindle to keep the chainline at 
>>> 50mm.  Somebody on the list with a  Suzie/Wolbis might help you find a 
>>> spindle, since I’ve heard (but don’t really know for sure) that it has a 
>>> 73mm bottom bracket shell.
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

Justin, I will suggest investigating what's causing the creaking and 
popping. Quite often, what appears to be from the crank may not actually be 
from the crank. Especially with an Xtracycle Free Radical conversion, there 
are more opportunities for creaks and pops. Unfortunately, troubleshooting 
such a thing is best done with a bit of experience, so you may need to 
bring it into a shop.

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 9:01:18 AM UTC-7 Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, 
NY) wrote:

> Okay thanks for the info. I'm not equipped or experienced with bottom 
> bracket replacement which is why I was hoping to salvage what's already 
> there and not have to remove and replace it. But maybe this is an 
> opportunity for me to figure it out. Will need to invest in some tools I 
> assume.
>
> On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 11:45:57 AM UTC-4 aeroperf wrote:
>
>> Justin—
>>
>> To answer your last question first, no, that spindle won’t fit.
>> Any way you look at it you would have to replace the entire bottom 
>> bracket.
>> The crank creaking and popping is more than likely due to the bottom 
>> bracket itself.
>>
>> If you want the cheaper solution, just remove the crankset, and replace 
>> the bottom bracket with a new BB51 or a Shimano BB-MT800.  These things are 
>> only about $25 and can be replaced reasonably easily with the right tools.
>>
>> Are you dead set on the looks thing?
>>
>> You need to remove the bottom bracket, and replace the bottom bracket 
>> with a square taper sealed unit like a UN-26.
>>
>> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-BB-UN26-Square-Bracket-68x113-mm/dp/B001EIAZ7A/r
>>
>> If it is a dedicated mountain bike, it will need a 73mm sealed unit.  You 
>> will also need to find the right width spindle to keep the chainline at 
>> 50mm.  Somebody on the list with a  Suzie/Wolbis might help you find a 
>> spindle, since I’ve heard (but don’t really know for sure) that it has a 
>> 73mm bottom bracket shell.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[Justin Kennedy (Brooklyn, NY)]

Okay thanks for the info. I'm not equipped or experienced with bottom 
bracket replacement which is why I was hoping to salvage what's already 
there and not have to remove and replace it. But maybe this is an 
opportunity for me to figure it out. Will need to invest in some tools I 
assume.

On Tuesday, August 25, 2020 at 11:45:57 AM UTC-4 aeroperf wrote:

> Justin—
>
> To answer your last question first, no, that spindle won’t fit.
> Any way you look at it you would have to replace the entire bottom bracket.
> The crank creaking and popping is more than likely due to the bottom 
> bracket itself.
>
> If you want the cheaper solution, just remove the crankset, and replace 
> the bottom bracket with a new BB51 or a Shimano BB-MT800.  These things are 
> only about $25 and can be replaced reasonably easily with the right tools.
>
> Are you dead set on the looks thing?
>
> You need to remove the bottom bracket, and replace the bottom bracket with 
> a square taper sealed unit like a UN-26.
>
> https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-BB-UN26-Square-Bracket-68x113-mm/dp/B001EIAZ7A/r
>
> If it is a dedicated mountain bike, it will need a 73mm sealed unit.  You 
> will also need to find the right width spindle to keep the chainline at 
> 50mm.  Somebody on the list with a  Suzie/Wolbis might help you find a 
> spindle, since I’ve heard (but don’t really know for sure) that it has a 
> 73mm bottom bracket shell.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Crankset & BB Question

[aeroperf]

Justin—

To answer your last question first, no, that spindle won’t fit.
Any way you look at it you would have to replace the entire bottom bracket.
The crank creaking and popping is more than likely due to the bottom 
bracket itself.

If you want the cheaper solution, just remove the crankset, and replace the 
bottom bracket with a new BB51 or a Shimano BB-MT800.  These things are 
only about $25 and can be replaced reasonably easily with the right tools.

Are you dead set on the looks thing?

You need to remove the bottom bracket, and replace the bottom bracket with 
a square taper sealed unit like a UN-26.
https://www.amazon.com/SHIMANO-BB-UN26-Square-Bracket-68x113-mm/dp/B001EIAZ7A/r

If it is a dedicated mountain bike, it will need a 73mm sealed unit.  You 
will also need to find the right width spindle to keep the chainline at 
50mm.  Somebody on the list with a  Suzie/Wolbis might help you find a 
spindle, since I’ve heard (but don’t really know for sure) that it has a 
73mm bottom bracket shell.

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