subject:"\[RBW\] Re\: Front Derailer Adjustment"

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-05 Thread Doug H.

Garth,
I need to heed this advice and more so this attitude! My frustration might 
have lead to a few choice words during the process but finally getting it 
right is satisfying and gratifying. All hail the bicycle for its simplicity 
and intricacy all at the same time.
Doug

On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 7:13:33 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> I was all set to write about doing it this way or that way, but honestly, 
> I've never done it the same way twice as each and every "situation" is 
> different. Just like reading and writing this, I can't say there is any 
> prescribed way to do it, it rather "just happens" spontaneously and 
> creatively, and it's Wonderfull ! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-05 Thread Garth

I was all set to write about doing it this way or that way, but honestly, 
I've never done it the same way twice as each and every "situation" is 
different. Just like reading and writing this, I can't say there is any 
prescribed way to do it, it rather "just happens" spontaneously and 
creatively, and it's Wonderfull ! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-04 Thread Joe Bernard

Indeed, I never thought of that. I didn't self-teach myself that part! 

On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 4:13:15 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> Ray,
> Excellent idea about adjusting before installing the chain. That makes 
> sense. I think I was able to get my FD adjusted. It is working well so far. 
> Thanks all for your help.
> Doug
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:10:46 PM UTC-5 Ray Varella wrote:
>
>> I’ve always done my initial  derailer adjustments before I install the 
>> chain. 
>> Front and rear both get installed and before the cable is connected I 
>> adjust the limit screw so that the front’s cage is centered on the small 
>> ring and the rear pulleys are centered on the small cog. 
>> Then I install the cables  and take up the slack, cinch the cable, run 
>> through the range of motion a few times to set the housing in the 
>>  ferrules. 
>> Then check the slack. 
>> Next, install the chain and run through the gears being careful not to 
>> run the chain into the spokes. 
>>
>> Like Joe said, it can take a bot of fine tuning to get things perfect so 
>> I take my screwdriver and Allen wrench on a test ride. 
>> Getting the gross adjustment really close will minimize the fine tuning. 
>>
>> Ray “also self taught many decades ago“  Varella
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:03:25 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Joe, you’re incredibly generous with your knowledge and experience. 
>>> Thank you!! I’ve learned so much from your contributions to this community, 
>>> and I very much appreciate the basics, too. The deeper I get into working 
>>> on my bikes myself, the more I understand that 1) the notion of bike 
>>> “standards” is hilarious and 2) what might be obvious to one person is not 
>>> at all obvious to another. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re a great 
>>> teacher, and you instruct with humor and kindness. 
>>>
>>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 20:22, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes 
>>> or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>>>
 Joe,

 I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy.  I'm happy to 
 discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.

 I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification 
 than too much.

 I'm here to learn, not show what I know.

 My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the 
 short time I've been in the group.

 Scott

 Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 

 On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford
  wrote:

 It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. 

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've 
 learned over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" 
 and 
 it's served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it 
 all wrong! 

 On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

 Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L 
 and H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter 
 will move the cage through that range.

 If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt 
 there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use 
 a hex bolt. 

 On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

 Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the 
 cable loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!
 Doug

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the 
 L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the 
 cable 
 is let out as much as it will go. 

 On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

 The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
 works so here goes:

 Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
 out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to 
 clear 
 the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
 swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
 shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
 big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep 
 the 
 chain

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-04 Thread Doug H.

Ray,
Excellent idea about adjusting before installing the chain. That makes 
sense. I think I was able to get my FD adjusted. It is working well so far. 
Thanks all for your help.
Doug

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:10:46 PM UTC-5 Ray Varella wrote:

> I’ve always done my initial  derailer adjustments before I install the 
> chain. 
> Front and rear both get installed and before the cable is connected I 
> adjust the limit screw so that the front’s cage is centered on the small 
> ring and the rear pulleys are centered on the small cog. 
> Then I install the cables  and take up the slack, cinch the cable, run 
> through the range of motion a few times to set the housing in the 
>  ferrules. 
> Then check the slack. 
> Next, install the chain and run through the gears being careful not to run 
> the chain into the spokes. 
>
> Like Joe said, it can take a bot of fine tuning to get things perfect so I 
> take my screwdriver and Allen wrench on a test ride. 
> Getting the gross adjustment really close will minimize the fine tuning. 
>
> Ray “also self taught many decades ago“  Varella
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:03:25 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>
>> Joe, you’re incredibly generous with your knowledge and experience. Thank 
>> you!! I’ve learned so much from your contributions to this community, and I 
>> very much appreciate the basics, too. The deeper I get into working on my 
>> bikes myself, the more I understand that 1) the notion of bike “standards” 
>> is hilarious and 2) what might be obvious to one person is not at all 
>> obvious to another. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re a great teacher, and 
>> you instruct with humor and kindness. 
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 20:22, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes 
>> or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>>
>>> Joe,
>>>
>>> I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy.  I'm happy to 
>>> discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.
>>>
>>> I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification 
>>> than too much.
>>>
>>> I'm here to learn, not show what I know.
>>>
>>> My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short 
>>> time I've been in the group.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>>> 
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned 
>>> over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's 
>>> served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all 
>>> wrong! 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L 
>>> and H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter 
>>> will move the cage through that range.
>>>
>>> If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt 
>>> there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use 
>>> a hex bolt. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
>>> Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the 
>>> cable loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the 
>>> L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable 
>>> is let out as much as it will go. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
>>> works so here goes:
>>>
>>> Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
>>> out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
>>> the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
>>> swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
>>> shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
>>> big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
>>> chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
>>> crankarm. 
>>>
>>> Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often 
>>> on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting 
>>> enough travel to knock the chain to the

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Ray Varella

I’ve always done my initial  derailer adjustments before I install the 
chain. 
Front and rear both get installed and before the cable is connected I 
adjust the limit screw so that the front’s cage is centered on the small 
ring and the rear pulleys are centered on the small cog. 
Then I install the cables  and take up the slack, cinch the cable, run 
through the range of motion a few times to set the housing in the 
 ferrules. 
Then check the slack. 
Next, install the chain and run through the gears being careful not to run 
the chain into the spokes. 

Like Joe said, it can take a bot of fine tuning to get things perfect so I 
take my screwdriver and Allen wrench on a test ride. 
Getting the gross adjustment really close will minimize the fine tuning. 

Ray “also self taught many decades ago“  Varella

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:03:25 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> Joe, you’re incredibly generous with your knowledge and experience. Thank 
> you!! I’ve learned so much from your contributions to this community, and I 
> very much appreciate the basics, too. The deeper I get into working on my 
> bikes myself, the more I understand that 1) the notion of bike “standards” 
> is hilarious and 2) what might be obvious to one person is not at all 
> obvious to another. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re a great teacher, and 
> you instruct with humor and kindness. 
>
> On Dec 3, 2022, at 20:22, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes 
> or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 
>
>
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy.  I'm happy to 
>> discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.
>>
>> I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification 
>> than too much.
>>
>> I'm here to learn, not show what I know.
>>
>> My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short 
>> time I've been in the group.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford
>>  wrote:
>>
>> It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned 
>> over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's 
>> served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all 
>> wrong! 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and 
>> H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will 
>> move the cage through that range.
>>
>> If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt 
>> there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use 
>> a hex bolt. 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable 
>> loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!
>> Doug
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L 
>> setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable 
>> is let out as much as it will go. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
>> works so here goes:
>>
>> Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
>> out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
>> the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
>> swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
>> shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
>> big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
>> chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
>> crankarm. 
>>
>> Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often 
>> on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting 
>> enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 
>>
>> Easy! 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
>> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
>> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
>> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Ray Varella

I’ve always done my initial  derailer adjustments before I install the 
chain. 
Front and rear both get installed and before the cable is connected I 
adjust the limit screw so that the front’s cage is centered on the small 
ring and the rear pulleys are centered on the small cog. 
Then I install the cables  and take up the slack, cinch the cable, run 
through the range of motion a few times to set the housing in the 
 ferrules. 
Then check the slack. 
Next, install the chain and run through the gears being careful not to run 
the chain into the spokes. 

Like Joe said, it can take a bot of fine tuning to get things perfect so I 
take my screwdriver and Allen wrench on a test ride. 
Getting the gross adjustment really close will minimize the fine tuning. 

Ray “also self taught many decades ago“  Varella 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 6:03:25 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> Joe, you’re incredibly generous with your knowledge and experience. Thank 
> you!! I’ve learned so much from your contributions to this community, and I 
> very much appreciate the basics, too. The deeper I get into working on my 
> bikes myself, the more I understand that 1) the notion of bike “standards” 
> is hilarious and 2) what might be obvious to one person is not at all 
> obvious to another. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re a great teacher, and 
> you instruct with humor and kindness. 
>
> On Dec 3, 2022, at 20:22, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes 
> or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 
>
>
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:
>
>> Joe,
>>
>> I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy.  I'm happy to 
>> discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.
>>
>> I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification 
>> than too much.
>>
>> I'm here to learn, not show what I know.
>>
>> My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short 
>> time I've been in the group.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
>> 
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford
>>  wrote:
>>
>> It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned 
>> over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's 
>> served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all 
>> wrong! 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and 
>> H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will 
>> move the cage through that range.
>>
>> If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt 
>> there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use 
>> a hex bolt. 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable 
>> loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!
>> Doug
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L 
>> setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable 
>> is let out as much as it will go. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
>> works so here goes:
>>
>> Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
>> out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
>> the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
>> swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
>> shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
>> big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
>> chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
>> crankarm. 
>>
>> Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often 
>> on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting 
>> enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 
>>
>> Easy! 
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
>> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
>> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
>> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Junes

Joe, you’re incredibly generous with your knowledge and experience. Thank you!! I’ve learned so much from your contributions to this community, and I very much appreciate the basics, too. The deeper I get into working on my bikes myself, the more I understand that 1) the notion of bike “standards” is hilarious and 2) what might be obvious to one person is not at all obvious to another. Everyone starts somewhere. You’re a great teacher, and you instruct with humor and kindness. On Dec 3, 2022, at 20:22, Joe Bernard wrote:I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes or set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:Joe,I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy. I'm happy to discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification than too much.I'm here to learn, not show what I know.My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short time I've been in the group.ScottSent from Yahoo Mail on AndroidOn Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford wrote: It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all wrong! On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will move the cage through that range.If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use a hex bolt. On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!DougSent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable is let out as much as it will go. On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it works so here goes:Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and crankarm. Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. Easy! On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice would be most appreciated. Doug

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Doug H.

John,
My chain ring is a double...38x24. I think it will work if I can get it 
adjusted. That is some good information though and I will keep it in mind. 
The collective knowledge here in this group is a fantastic resource.
Doug

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 8:47:45 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak wrote:

> Doug
>
> It sounds like the FD does not move far enough to the inside to shift to 
> the granny of a triple with the low adjustment screw all the way out.  A 
> possibility is your FD is designed for a front chain line greater than you 
> actual front chain line.   FD have about 20mm of sideway motion and if the 
> front chain lines are mismatched AND the crank ring spacing is > 5mm, the 
> FD can move to the granny.
>
> Suggestion:
> Measure the front chain line to the middle chain ring and compare it to 
> the design value for the FD
> Measure the front chain line of the granny ring.  If the middle - granny 
> is > 5mm (like 7 to 8 mm on a Sugino XD/TD crank you may have a problem.
>
> Possible solution:  Get an old triple FD designed for a 45 mm front chain 
> line, like a FD-MT-60 form the 80's.  I bought a Sora FD-3030b (9spd) with 
> a FCL of 45m and it shifts a Sugino TD-2 46-36-26 with problem.  The 
> XT-FD-M781-AX6S had a FCL of about 50mm and could not shift to the 28T 
> granny.  TD-2 ring spacing is 8mm Outer to Middle and 5mm Inner to Small.  
>  I bought the Sora from Universal Cycles  for $34.88.  My FD-MT60 also 
> shifted it fine, part of a Biopace crank on a 88 Schwinn Voyaguer.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:41:41 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
>> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
>> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
>> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when 
>> I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is 
>> pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, 
>> after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice 
>> would be most appreciated. 
>> Doug
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch

Doug

It sounds like the FD does not move far enough to the inside to shift to 
the granny of a triple with the low adjustment screw all the way out.  A 
possibility is your FD is designed for a front chain line greater than you 
actual front chain line.   FD have about 20mm of sideway motion and if the 
front chain lines are mismatched AND the crank ring spacing is > 5mm, the 
FD can move to the granny.

Suggestion:
Measure the front chain line to the middle chain ring and compare it to the 
design value for the FD
Measure the front chain line of the granny ring.  If the middle - granny is 
> 5mm (like 7 to 8 mm on a Sugino XD/TD crank you may have a problem.

Possible solution:  Get an old triple FD designed for a 45 mm front chain 
line, like a FD-MT-60 form the 80's.  I bought a Sora FD-3030b (9spd) with 
a FCL of 45m and it shifts a Sugino TD-2 46-36-26 with problem.  The 
XT-FD-M781-AX6S had a FCL of about 50mm and could not shift to the 28T 
granny.  TD-2 ring spacing is 8mm Outer to Middle and 5mm Inner to Small.  
 I bought the Sora from Universal Cycles  for $34.88.  My FD-MT60 also 
shifted it fine, part of a Biopace crank on a 88 Schwinn Voyaguer.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:41:41 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when 
> I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is 
> pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, 
> after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice 
> would be most appreciated. 
> Doug
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Joe Bernard

I do what I can, Scott! Just don't ask me how to bleed hydraulic brakes or 
set sag on a suspension fork. I barely know what those words even mean 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 5:13:43 PM UTC-8 Scott wrote:

> Joe,
>
> I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy.  I'm happy to 
> discard what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.
>
> I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification 
> than too much.
>
> I'm here to learn, not show what I know.
>
> My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short 
> time I've been in the group.
>
> Scott
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>
> On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford
>  wrote:
>
> It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned 
> over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's 
> served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all 
> wrong! 
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and 
> H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will 
> move the cage through that range.
>
> If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt 
> there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use 
> a hex bolt. 
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
> Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable 
> loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!
> Doug
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L 
> setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable 
> is let out as much as it will go. 
>
>
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
> works so here goes:
>
> Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
> out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
> the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
> swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
> shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
> big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
> chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
> crankarm. 
>
> Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often 
> on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting 
> enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 
>
> Easy! 
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when 
> I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is 
> pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, 
> after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice 
> would be most appreciated. 
> Doug
>
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> .
>
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>  
>

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread 'Scott Luly' via RBW Owners Bunch

Joe,
I appreciate the error on overshare/overstate philosophy. I'm happy to discard
what I already know and treasure hunt for what I don't know.
I'm more likely to get annoyed with a lack of explanation/clarification than
too much.
I'm here to learn, not show what I know.
My knowledge toolbox has grown - plenty of which from you - in the short time
I've been in the group.
Scott

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, Dec 3, 2022 at 5:00 PM, Doug Hansford wrote:
It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned over
the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's served me
well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all wrong! 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and H to
cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will move the
cage through that range.
If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt there.
Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use a hex bolt.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable loose
when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!Doug

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L
setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable is
let out as much as it will go.

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it works so
here goes:
Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way out,
then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear the
chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it swinging
any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and shift to the
big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the big ring? Good,
now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the chain from
overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and crankarm.
Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often on the
first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting enough travel
to knock the chain to the next ring.
Easy! 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my Shimano
Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. Is it proper
to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and largest rear cog?
Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when I start the
adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is pretty much all
the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, after a couple of
rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice would be most
appreciated. Doug

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Doug Hansford

It may be obvious to some but I appreciate the detail. Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2022, at 6:11 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all wrong! On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will move the cage through that range.If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use a hex bolt. On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!DougSent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable is let out as much as it will go. On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it works so here goes:Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and crankarm. Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. Easy! On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice would be most appreciated. Doug

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Joe Bernard

Apologies to anyone who thinks I'm explaining the obvious, I've learned 
over the years to start at "explain everything, assume nothing" and it's 
served me well. And as I said in my first post, I'm probably doing it all 
wrong! 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:52:07 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Trial and error bro! Basically you need the range of motion between L and 
> H to cover the chainrings, and the cable pinched down so the shifter will 
> move the cage through that range.
>
> If the shifter starts slipping you'll need to crank down on the bolt 
> there. Silver thumbies have a little ring you turn, SunRace/Microshift use 
> a hex bolt. 
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 2:26:30 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable 
>> loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!
>> Doug
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L 
>> setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable 
>> is let out as much as it will go. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
>>> works so here goes:
>>>
>>> Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
>>> out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
>>> the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
>>> swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
>>> shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
>>> big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
>>> chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
>>> crankarm. 
>>>
>>> Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often 
>>> on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting 
>>> enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 
>>>
>>> Easy! 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
 Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
 Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
 largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when 
 I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is 
 pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, 
 after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any 
 advice 
 would be most appreciated. 
 Doug

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Doug Hansford

Joe these are excellent instructions. My mistake is not leaving the cable loose when adjusting the low limit. Thanks!!DougSent from my iPhoneOn Dec 3, 2022, at 5:00 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable is let out as much as it will go. On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it works so here goes:Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and crankarm. Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. Easy! On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice would be most appreciated. Doug

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Joe Bernard

Of course I forget something. The cable gets tightened down (after the L 
setting is done) with the shifter in its most forward position, the cable 
is let out as much as it will go. 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 1:57:41 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it 
> works so here goes:
>
> Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
> out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
> the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
> swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
> shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
> big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
> chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
> crankarm. 
>
> Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often 
> on the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting 
> enough travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 
>
> Easy! 
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
>> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
>> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
>> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when 
>> I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is 
>> pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, 
>> after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice 
>> would be most appreciated. 
>> Doug
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

2022-12-03 Thread Joe Bernard

The way I do it was self-taught decades ago and no doubt wrong but it works 
so here goes:

Chain in small front/big rear like you said, L and H screws all the way 
out, then I adjust the L screw to get the cage just inboard enough to clear 
the chain. That's my low position for the derailer, I know I dont want it 
swinging any closer to the frame. Now I tighten the cable at the clamp and 
shift to the big front/small rear. Is the fd getting my chain over to the 
big ring? Good, now I'm screwing the H limit in just far enough to keep the 
chain from overshifting and tossing the chain between the ring and 
crankarm. 

Once I've gotten this far I ride a bit to dial the L and H screws, often on 
the first try one or the other isn't quite right and I'm not getting enough 
travel to knock the chain to the next ring. 

Easy! 

On Saturday, December 3, 2022 at 11:41:41 AM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> I want to tap into the collective knowledge here. I need to adjust my 
> Shimano Deore front derailer on my Clem. It looks to be aligned properly. 
> Is it proper to tighten the cable when the chain is on the small ring and 
> largest rear cog? Should the H and L screws be all the way screwed in when 
> I start the adjustment? I was able to get it to shift but the low screw is 
> pretty much all the way out so it just seems to be off in some way. And, 
> after a couple of rides it seems to come back out of adjustment. Any advice 
> would be most appreciated. 
> Doug
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

Re: [RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

[RBW] Re: Front Derailer Adjustment

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