subject:"\[RBW\] That Diet and Exercise thing again\!"

Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-12 Thread Patrick in VT

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:39:42 PM UTC-4, grant wrote:


 Visit nusi.org. We can guess, but they will discover.


I visited.  The Board of Directors biographies are telling.  Private Equity 
+ Consulting + Pharmaceutical = drug development.  Anybody want to bet 
against that?

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-12 Thread charlie

The scientific board of advisors, the general advisory board and the board 
of directors are all well educated credentialed  people from a variety of 
backgrounds. Seventeen people so far I mean who else would be 
better a butcher, baker and candlestick maker? Perhaps these folks are 
really trying to make a difference.time will tell. Nice to know what 
their education and experience has been up front.

On Friday, October 12, 2012 6:19:00 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:39:42 PM UTC-4, grant wrote:


 Visit nusi.org. We can guess, but they will discover.


 I visited.  The Board of Directors biographies are telling.  Private 
 Equity + Consulting + Pharmaceutical = drug development.  Anybody want to 
 bet against that?


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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-12 Thread Patrick in VT

On Friday, October 12, 2012 9:38:00 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

The scientific board of advisors, the general advisory board and the board
of directors are all well educated credentialed people from a variety of
backgrounds.

I wish I could see the good in it, Charlie - I really do. but I was taught
to think critically about these things. the Board of Directors has
experience in bringing drugs to market. The Board calls the shots. NUSI
will provide the science/research for the phases of FDA approval. and
these companies, among many others, will make money hand over fist:

- McKinsey and Company -
http://www.mckinsey.com/client_service/pharmaceuticals_and_medical_products/expertise/research_and_development
- City Hill Ventures, LLC (private equity)
- Halozyme Therapeutics (NASDAQ: HALO)
- Abbot Laboratories (NYSE: ABT)
- Shasta Ventures (private equity)
- Ziff Brothers Investments

and the Board of Adviors is comprised of more venture capitalists, risk
scientists, health care insiders, and none other than Mr. FourHourWorkWeek
himself, Tim Ferriss. seriously?

in any event, whether the drug makes a difference or not remains to be
seen. but there there will be a drug and it will join the ranks of lipitor
($7.7billion/year for mostly preventable cholesterol/heart disease), plavix
($6.8billion/year for mostly preventable heart disease), ($6.2 billion/year
for mostly preventable heartburn . .. freakin' heartburn!). The market for
a prescription drug to combat obesity is unfathomable .. .. wait, no its
not. the initial market will soon be 50% of our country (call it
150,000,000?) multiplied by the cost of Mr. Pirelli's miracle fat-reducing
elixir (call it $100/month) . ... $180,000,000,000/year. Subtract $180
*billion* if you think i overshot it.

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-12 Thread PATRICK MOORE

More data to confuse the issue: http://www.theawl.com/2012/10/the-sugar-wars

Note that the report refers to a debate more particularly on sugared
sodas, but it does show that the leading scientists are still very
uncertain about the fundamental causes of obesity *in our society*
(the latter is the context of their debate, as far as I can tell from
the report).

Food used to be simple, right? I wonder what happened?

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, October 12, 2012 9:38:00 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

The scientific board of advisors, the general advisory board and the board
of directors are all well educated credentialed people from a variety of
backgrounds.

I wish I could see the good in it, Charlie - I really do. but I was taught
to think critically about these things. the Board of Directors has
experience in bringing drugs to market. The Board calls the shots. NUSI
will provide the science/research for the phases of FDA approval. and these
companies, among many others, will make money hand over fist:

and the Board of Adviors is comprised of more venture capitalists, risk
scientists, health care insiders, and none other than Mr. FourHourWorkWeek
himself, Tim Ferriss. seriously?

in any event, whether the drug makes a difference or not remains to be seen.
but there there will be a drug and it will join the ranks of lipitor
($7.7billion/year for mostly preventable cholesterol/heart disease), plavix
($6.8billion/year for mostly preventable heart disease), ($6.2 billion/year
for mostly preventable heartburn . .. freakin' heartburn!). The market for
a prescription drug to combat obesity is unfathomable .. .. wait, no its
not. the initial market will soon be 50% of our country (call it
150,000,000?) multiplied by the cost of Mr. Pirelli's miracle fat-reducing
elixir (call it $100/month) . ... $180,000,000,000/year. Subtract $180
*billion* if you think i overshot it.

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-
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For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-12 Thread charlie

On Friday, October 12, 2012 8:18:38 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

More data to confuse the issue:
http://www.theawl.com/2012/10/the-sugar-wars
Here is something interesting, this is from a Vegan site..although it
is found elsewhere and is common knowledge and historical fact.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.wholevegan.com/refined_sugar_history.html

Food used to be simple, right? I wonder what happened?

On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 8:56 AM, Patrick in VT
swin...@gmail.comjavascript:
wrote:
On Friday, October 12, 2012 9:38:00 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

The scientific board of advisors, the general advisory board and the
board
of directors are all well educated credentialed people from a variety
of
backgrounds.

I wish I could see the good in it, Charlie - I really do. but I was
taught
to think critically about these things. the Board of Directors has
experience in bringing drugs to market. The Board calls the shots.
NUSI
will provide the science/research for the phases of FDA approval. and
these
companies, among many others, will make money hand over fist:

- McKinsey and Company -

http://www.mckinsey.com/client_service/pharmaceuticals_and_medical_products/expertise/research_and_development

- City Hill Ventures, LLC (private equity)
- Halozyme Therapeutics (NASDAQ: HALO)
- Abbot Laboratories (NYSE: ABT)
- Shasta Ventures (private equity)
- Ziff Brothers Investments

and the Board of Adviors is comprised of more venture capitalists, risk
scientists, health care insiders, and none other than Mr.
FourHourWorkWeek
himself, Tim Ferriss. seriously?

in any event, whether the drug makes a difference or not remains to be
seen.
but there there will be a drug and it will join the ranks of lipitor
($7.7billion/year for mostly preventable cholesterol/heart disease),
plavix
($6.8billion/year for mostly preventable heart disease), ($6.2
billion/year
for mostly preventable heartburn . .. freakin' heartburn!). The market
for
a prescription drug to combat obesity is unfathomable .. .. wait, no its
not. the initial market will soon be 50% of our country (call it
150,000,000?) multiplied by the cost of Mr. Pirelli's miracle
fat-reducing
elixir (call it $100/month) . ... $180,000,000,000/year. Subtract $180
*billion* if you think i overshot it.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:.
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http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-12 Thread charlie

Ummm just ate chicken and rainbow chard from our garden with a big green
saladnothing wrong with thinking critically. If NUSI merely does
the research and brings a drug to help fight obesity in the truly obese
then fine. A 500 pound man may benefit from something like that.if in
fact there is a hormonal link to such obesity as some suspect or..it
may just be that these folks mean well and are honestly wanting to find the
causes of obesity as the founder states. Not sure if you have ever been
obese (not talking 20 pounds of middle age fat here I mean a lifetime of
extreme obesity) but for someone with this problem who has tried most (if
not all) other avenues it can be extremely frustrating. Frankly, I don't
care if someone of even a bunch of people make billions off their efforts
(making money is not a crime)heck the entire pharmaceutical/medical
industry has been doing that for years while many obese folks are
miserable. I (do) see the potential good in it. One might argue that all
the obese must do is discipline their lives, eat right and exercise. Much
easier said than done especially if the one saying it doesn't have the
problem to begin with. Its not unlike the natural skinny man trying to
(gain weight) who has a super high metabolism and never gains more than 15
pounds all the while lifting weights like a maniac and eating as smart as
he can..

On Friday, October 12, 2012 7:56:42 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:

On Friday, October 12, 2012 9:38:00 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

The scientific board of advisors, the general advisory board and the
board of directors are all well educated credentialed people from a
variety of backgrounds.

I wish I could see the good in it, Charlie - I really do. but I was
taught to think critically about these things. the Board of Directors has
experience in bringing drugs to market. The Board calls the shots. NUSI
will provide the science/research for the phases of FDA approval. and
these companies, among many others, will make money hand over fist:

and the Board of Adviors is comprised of more venture capitalists, risk
scientists, health care insiders, and none other than Mr. FourHourWorkWeek
himself, Tim Ferriss. seriously?

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread Patrick in VT

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:30:19 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Don't be silly. Be reasonable. There are millions of people worldwide who 
 happily and healthily eat diets largely composed of carbs with few health 
 problems. Please don't be totalitarian.


Exactly.  blaming carbs in the context of obesity smacks of willful 
ignorance. People that stay weight neutral tend to have a healthy 
relationship with food regardless of carbs, fiber, grains, meat, 
vegetables, whatever.  To Peter's point above, I don't vilify people who 
choose to an extra meal of potato chips and ice cream - but if that's an 
everyday thing, it's a very good example of what it means to have a poor 
relationship with food.  Food should be nourishing, yet daily extra meals 
with no nutritional value is the norm for a lot of people because it 
comforts them.  Using food for comfort or stress relief should be a huge 
red flag - that's an eating/lifestyle problem, not a diet/carb problem.  
Just like using alcohol to cope is a huge red flag.  

I recall reading that keeping a food journal is one of the top ways to lose 
weight - it forces one to be honest and accountable with respect to what 
and how much he/she is eating.  it makes a lot of sense to me because it 
also gets to the why am I eating this or that if it's not nourishing and 
I'm not hungry.  the extra food adds up quick - do the math on an extra 250 
calories/day over 2 years.  then do it over 5 years.  if that extra 250 
calories/day (a couple beers or a bag of chips or a bowl of ice cream) is 
the norm for two thirds of Americans, then the fact that two-thirds of 
Americans are overweight/obese makes perfect sense.  



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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread Peter Morgano

Patrick is right, food and calories in general are an economy of scale,
where small decisions can add up to something huge down the road, whether
for the better or worse.  And while I am a political person I really hate
to bring up politics or religion with people I don't know that well but I
have to say that obesity is less in European countries that have more of a
focus on quality of life as opposed to being slaves to the allmighty
dollar. Even the Germans, who are put on a pedestal as the example of what
hard work and dedication can accomplish have more paid time off and just
free time in general to relieve some of the stress of every day life. I
agree that using food for comfort can be just as dangerous as drugs or
alcohol but again the drive to work more and more means less time to
actually talk to someone or take a breather and go for a bike ride or read
a book. We are taught from an early age that food is comfort and that
exercise is grueling so it is easy to see why so many Americans are
obese, but much harder to reverse this trend.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:49 AM, Patrick in VT swing4...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thursday, October 11, 2012 1:30:19 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Don't be silly. Be reasonable. There are millions of people worldwide who
 happily and healthily eat diets largely composed of carbs with few health
 problems. Please don't be totalitarian.


 Exactly.  blaming carbs in the context of obesity smacks of willful
 ignorance. People that stay weight neutral tend to have a healthy
 relationship with food regardless of carbs, fiber, grains, meat,
 vegetables, whatever.  To Peter's point above, I don't vilify people who
 choose to an extra meal of potato chips and ice cream - but if that's an
 everyday thing, it's a very good example of what it means to have a poor
 relationship with food.  Food should be nourishing, yet daily extra meals
 with no nutritional value is the norm for a lot of people because it
 comforts them.  Using food for comfort or stress relief should be a huge
 red flag - that's an eating/lifestyle problem, not a diet/carb problem.
 Just like using alcohol to cope is a huge red flag.

 I recall reading that keeping a food journal is one of the top ways to
 lose weight - it forces one to be honest and accountable with respect to
 what and how much he/she is eating.  it makes a lot of sense to me because
 it also gets to the why am I eating this or that if it's not nourishing
 and I'm not hungry.  the extra food adds up quick - do the math on an extra
 250 calories/day over 2 years.  then do it over 5 years.  if that extra 250
 calories/day (a couple beers or a bag of chips or a bowl of ice cream) is
 the norm for two thirds of Americans, then the fact that two-thirds of
 Americans are overweight/obese makes perfect sense.



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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread PATRICK MOORE

Just for the record, I don't doubt the word of those who *have* benefited
from the so-called Primal diet. It just seems that there is overwhelming
evidence that it isn't necessary for very many people.

Peter and Patrick bring up and interesting point, that there may be more
going on with food ailments than can be adequately analyzed merely in terms
of calories, proteins, fats, and carbs -- that is, that there may well be
social and psychological aspects to ailments often attributed to diet
alone. I do know that, in traditional Chinese medicine -- and I expect that
it is found elsewhere -- it is not only the content of the food that
affects one's health (ie, the amount of commonly analyzed nutrients, fats,
protein, carbohydrates, minerals, vitamins and so forth) but also how it is
cooked, how it is grown, how it is stored and how it is served. So there
may well be intangibles (at least, intangible to us descendants of the
Enlightenment and its scientific successor) that affect how the same food
can affect people in very different ways.

That in itself would not be surprising, since there is obviously something
in living beings, at least sentient living beings, that directs the body --
which is why sadness, for example, or stress, can kill a person or at least
make him ill. Reductio corpus ad animam!

At any rate, there is at least a minority who certainly does thrive on a
diet made very largely of animal products; long before the Primals there
were the Inuit who survived thus for millennia.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 8:59 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.comwrote:

 Patrick is right, food and calories in general are an economy of scale,
 where small decisions can add up to something huge down the road, whether
 for the better or worse.

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread PATRICK MOORE

To be precise: I mean that there are (empirically) huge number of people
for whom it obviously isn't necessary. I don't presume to judge the
fraction of people for whom it isn't beneficial or for whom it is.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:42 AM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:


 It just seems that there is overwhelming evidence that it isn't necessary
 for very many people.




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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread PATRICK MOORE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet#Nutrition

The typical Inuit diet is high in protein and very high in fat – in
their traditional diets, Inuit consumed an average of 75% of their
daily energy intake from fat.[32]
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit#Diet)

The footnote refers to this: http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox

Very interesting!

See the Diet section here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#Diet

And: http://www.livestrong.com/article/293306-masai-tribe-diet/

Which last says that the Maasai have, or had, very low levels of heart disease:



Adaptation

Research published in the New England Journal of Medicine found that
the Masai demonstrate some unique biological characteristics. Despite
their high-fat diet, they have consistent low levels of cholesterol
and lipoprotein with no indication of atherosclerosis. The study
suggested that the Masai possess a cholesterol-absorption control that
compensates for dietary cholesterol. An absence of cholesterol
gallstones was also noted. The study concluded that these positive
realizations may reflect a long-term biological adaptation of the
tribe.

Coronary Disease

A survey published in the Journal of Atherosclerosis Research
investigated reasons for Masai tribe subjects having low levels of
serum cholesterol with little or no evidence for atherosclerosis and
heart disease, despite continuous consumption of meat and milk. It was
suggested that perhaps freedom from emotional stress or large
quantities of physical exercise may be responsible for the incongruity
with animal fat intake to coronary disease rather than diet fat being
a contributing factor.

Blood Pressure

Analyses performed on subjects from tribal and non-tribal Masai found
differences in physical characteristics, pulse rate and systolic blood
pressure, as published in Annals of Human Biology. The nontribal
sample had significantly higher blood pressure than the tribal
members. The tentative conclusion was that blood pressure is affected
by change in environment, and the effect on cholesterol levels may be
longer-term.

The Effect of Milk

The University of Southampton researchers assessed the very high milk
intake of the Masai diet and their low cholesterol levels. Findings
published in Atherosclerosis suggested a hypocholesterolaemic
factor in milk that attributed to a genetic adaptation.



Read more: 
http://www.livestrong.com/article/293306-masai-tribe-diet/#ixzz290Su7hOH;


Note, on the other hand, in contradiction to the Paleos' assertion
that cavemen didn't eat much carbohydrate, that many hunter gatherers
that we actually know of did depend greatly on wild seeds, with meat
in particular being relatively scarce. Here is one example, the
Chumash:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080408202149AAegPoi

And here a nutritional analysis of the acorns that made a good part of
their diet (in addition to other seeds):
http://quitehealthy.com/nutrition-facts/nuts-seeds/120591.html

42% carbs.

This is very interesting, arguing that, in fact, the Primal diet was
largely vegetarian; they talk about the Sho of the Kalahari in
particular:

http://www.ivu.org/history/early/archaeology.html

I know that wild grasses' seeds were an important part of the diet of
SW Indians -- I've got some hugely overgrown (over 6' high and 5' in
diameter) wild SW grasses at my door this minute, all recently seeded.
Have been tempted ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/Paleo

Note the bushmeat in the doorway, too.

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread grant



Visit nusi.org. We can guess, but they will discover.


On Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:08:18 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

 The point of moderation is to prevent problems.  Once you've already got 
 problems, it may be a different story. However, extremity in seeking weight 
 loss may not be a good plan either.  I have known people who developed 
 health problems as a result of the Adkins plan, the primal type stuff, 
 etc.  I've also known people helped by it.  These are decisions to be made 
 with the advice of a doctor, not an Internet mailing list or a blog or some 
 other web site.

 My Dad was an insulin dependent diabetic from the age of 6, which he 
 developed as a consequence of having had polio in 1935.  He took two to 
 three shots of insulin a day for the rest of his life, which was about 25 
 years longer than he had been told to expect (he lived to be 67).  It's a 
 disease best prevented.  Even though he was compliant with diet and 
 treatment, it still took a toll on his health (coronary artery disease, 
 peripheral vascular disease, peripheral neuropathy but oddly no problems 
 with kidneys or eyes).  He had a great endocrinologist... It's so much 
 better not to need a great endocrinologist.  As a result I pay a lot of 
 attention since I may have an increased risk, although no doctor can tell 
 me for sure since diabetes does not run strongly in the family on either 
 side.  



 On Oct 7, 2012, at 9:49 PM, charlie cl_...@hotmail.com javascript: 
 wrote:

 Kind of agree and kind of don't...(for some) trying to lose fat, 
 moderation amounts to no progress. For those people it takes absolute 
 vigilance and resolve without any wavering to lose fat and maintain their 
 effort. Compromise just doesn't end well ultimately. Maybe for the average 
 person that idea is okay..I'll give ya that. For someone on the edge of 
 diabetes, compromise will put them over the edge into the abyss of insulin 
 injections and a decline in the quality of life.

 On Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:02:23 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

 Too much of anything is bad for you.  Too many carbs, too much fat, too 
 much protein, too much water, too much alcohol, too much exercise, too much 
 laziness, too much stress, etc.   Humans are omnivorous in many ways and 
 can thrive in an amazing variety of situations. 

 Moderation in all things, including moderation. 

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery

If nothing else, I think we can all agree that people who eat low-carb diets 
tend to look good riding lugged steel, especially if twine and feathers and 
tweed are part of the ensemble. 

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread charlie

Thanks Grant..I was beginning to get discouraged in this thread and was 
ready to abandon my efforts from the past year and a half and just go back 
to eating carbohydrates again, gaining back all the fat I lost since it 
obviously doesn't work. I figured I'd  just count calories again and eat 
get a better attitude since I must not have a good one because I am a fat 
guy  ; ) Seriously though Grant, I do appreciate your articles, 
interviews, the new book and your links to various authors and websites 
that we have been reading on the subject of eating a Paleo 
/ ancestral diet etc. It has helped me greatly to get control of my food 
cravings which has resulted in several symptoms disappearing (that I won't 
elaborate on) not to mention the obvious loss of fat. My clothes size went 
down I feel better and I have you to thank for pointing the way after I had 
tried nearly every other method from crazy exercising routines to calorie 
counting, food weighing, not eating fat, portioning, the wife 
went vegetarian (not me) etc. etc. I could go on but this approach has been 
the easiest to maintain and one that get resultsthanks again. I look 
forward to the research site you gave the link to..it looks like they 
are on the right track. My own experience however is proof enough for me ( 
in spite of the naysayers and skeptics) but I welcome the added knowledge 
the NUSI group will bring to the subject.

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 4:39:42 PM UTC-7, grant wrote:



 Visit nusi.org. We can guess, but they will discover.


 On Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:08:18 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

 The point of moderation is to prevent problems.  Once you've already got 
 problems, it may be a different story. However, extremity in seeking weight 
 loss may not be a good plan either.  I have known people who developed 
 health problems as a result of the Adkins plan, the primal type stuff, 
 etc.  I've also known people helped by it.  These are decisions to be made 
 with the advice of a doctor, not an Internet mailing list or a blog or some 
 other web site.

 My Dad was an insulin dependent diabetic from the age of 6, which he 
 developed as a consequence of having had polio in 1935.  He took two to 
 three shots of insulin a day for the rest of his life, which was about 25 
 years longer than he had been told to expect (he lived to be 67).  It's a 
 disease best prevented.  Even though he was compliant with diet and 
 treatment, it still took a toll on his health (coronary artery disease, 
 peripheral vascular disease, peripheral neuropathy but oddly no problems 
 with kidneys or eyes).  He had a great endocrinologist... It's so much 
 better not to need a great endocrinologist.  As a result I pay a lot of 
 attention since I may have an increased risk, although no doctor can tell 
 me for sure since diabetes does not run strongly in the family on either 
 side.  



 On Oct 7, 2012, at 9:49 PM, charlie cl_...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Kind of agree and kind of don't...(for some) trying to lose fat, 
 moderation amounts to no progress. For those people it takes absolute 
 vigilance and resolve without any wavering to lose fat and maintain their 
 effort. Compromise just doesn't end well ultimately. Maybe for the average 
 person that idea is okay..I'll give ya that. For someone on the edge of 
 diabetes, compromise will put them over the edge into the abyss of insulin 
 injections and a decline in the quality of life.

 On Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:02:23 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

 Too much of anything is bad for you.  Too many carbs, too much fat, too 
 much protein, too much water, too much alcohol, too much exercise, too much 
 laziness, too much stress, etc.   Humans are omnivorous in many ways and 
 can thrive in an amazing variety of situations. 

 Moderation in all things, including moderation. 

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread jimD

I don't always eschew carbohydrates, I do look very good on my Rivendell!

…and, oh, umm, I wear a helmet... cause it holds my mirror.
-JimD

Come to think of it, we should talk about mirrors, those should generate some 
heat and light along with incredible insights.


On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

 If nothing else, I think we can all agree that people who eat low-carb diets 
 tend to look good riding lugged steel, especially if twine and feathers and 
 tweed are part of the ensemble. 
 
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread Peter Morgano

Why does one mirror on a bike look ok but two makes a bike look like Pee
Wee Herman should be riding it, while all cars just come with two?

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:01 PM, jimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:

 I don't always eschew carbohydrates, I do look very good on my Rivendell!

 …and, oh, umm, I wear a helmet... cause it holds my mirror.
 -JimD

 Come to think of it, we should talk about mirrors, those should generate
 some heat and light along with incredible insights.


 On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:

  If nothing else, I think we can all agree that people who eat low-carb
 diets tend to look good riding lugged steel, especially if twine and
 feathers and tweed are part of the ensemble.
 
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread Mojo

I want to thank you Grant for bringing Gary Taubes' book and the idea 
of low-carb diet into my world view. It has been life changing for me. I am 
not taking statins today because of you Grant. I am 18lbs lighter than 
before. My blood numbers are much improved. Maybe most importantly I have a 
fundamentally different relationship with food now. As much as I appreciate 
the changes you brought to my cycling, this is more important. Again, 
thanks Grant!

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 5:39:42 PM UTC-6, grant wrote:



 Visit nusi.org. We can guess, but they will discover.


 On Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:08:18 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

 The point of moderation is to prevent problems.  Once you've already got 
 problems, it may be a different story. However, extremity in seeking weight 
 loss may not be a good plan either.  I have known people who developed 
 health problems as a result of the Adkins plan, the primal type stuff, 
 etc.  I've also known people helped by it.  These are decisions to be made 
 with the advice of a doctor, not an Internet mailing list or a blog or some 
 other web site.

 My Dad was an insulin dependent diabetic from the age of 6, which he 
 developed as a consequence of having had polio in 1935.  He took two to 
 three shots of insulin a day for the rest of his life, which was about 25 
 years longer than he had been told to expect (he lived to be 67).  It's a 
 disease best prevented.  Even though he was compliant with diet and 
 treatment, it still took a toll on his health (coronary artery disease, 
 peripheral vascular disease, peripheral neuropathy but oddly no problems 
 with kidneys or eyes).  He had a great endocrinologist... It's so much 
 better not to need a great endocrinologist.  As a result I pay a lot of 
 attention since I may have an increased risk, although no doctor can tell 
 me for sure since diabetes does not run strongly in the family on either 
 side.  



 On Oct 7, 2012, at 9:49 PM, charlie cl_...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Kind of agree and kind of don't...(for some) trying to lose fat, 
 moderation amounts to no progress. For those people it takes absolute 
 vigilance and resolve without any wavering to lose fat and maintain their 
 effort. Compromise just doesn't end well ultimately. Maybe for the average 
 person that idea is okay..I'll give ya that. For someone on the edge of 
 diabetes, compromise will put them over the edge into the abyss of insulin 
 injections and a decline in the quality of life.

 On Sunday, October 7, 2012 9:02:23 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:

 Too much of anything is bad for you.  Too many carbs, too much fat, too 
 much protein, too much water, too much alcohol, too much exercise, too much 
 laziness, too much stress, etc.   Humans are omnivorous in many ways and 
 can thrive in an amazing variety of situations. 

 Moderation in all things, including moderation. 

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-11 Thread jimD

Zowie, woulda thunk it?
I could put two mirrors on my helmet - one right, one left. Would probably get 
a head ache and end up cross eyed.
-JimD
On Oct 11, 2012, at 8:19 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

 Why does one mirror on a bike look ok but two makes a bike look like Pee Wee 
 Herman should be riding it, while all cars just come with two?
 
 On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 11:01 PM, jimD rasterd...@comcast.net wrote:
 I don't always eschew carbohydrates, I do look very good on my Rivendell!
 
 …and, oh, umm, I wear a helmet... cause it holds my mirror.
 -JimD
 
 Come to think of it, we should talk about mirrors, those should generate some 
 heat and light along with incredible insights.
 
 
 On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:12 PM, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote:
 
  If nothing else, I think we can all agree that people who eat low-carb 
  diets tend to look good riding lugged steel, especially if twine and 
  feathers and tweed are part of the ensemble.
 
  --
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread charlie

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if trying 
to lose fat) this doesn't work. I haven't stopped doing any of those 
things heck we don't even have television...A holistic approach is 
definitely important but the basic fact is about what and how much of it we 
eat.  Years of bad living often mean the damage is already done and some 
might only be able to slow the deterioration down making it difficult to 
return to a healthy body fat percentage and overall health. All the more 
reason to get on it as soon as possible. It is a well know fact that a very 
low percentage of the truly obese are not often successful in their efforts 
to lose fat. It is a real problem for some and not often understood by 
the average slightly chubby person. The subject and the people are more 
often laughed about, (I witnessed that yesterday at work) or dismissed as 
being lazy or otherwise flawed but that's another story


we need to get back to the basics and those who are really struggling with 
weight need a multi-dimensional solution.  be active.  have sex.  sleep.  
volunteer.  pet a dog.  learn something new.  unplug the computer/TV and go 
outside.  that seems like a better prescription for weight loss than any 
diet.  

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:43:43 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Monday, October 8, 2012 12:36:23 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:

 There is a whole community of people who were inspired by Bill Clinton's 
 weight loss based on a lifestyle and diet changes . .. 


 Bill Clinton aside, lifestyle is a very important part of the equation.  
 There's a lot of talk about what to eat, how to eat, blah, blah .  . . but 
 I don't think all that talk makes much difference if other aspects of 
 lifestyle are out of balance.  There's a distinct feeling that comes with 
 wellness - things get easy because being physically and mentally well feels 
 really, really good.  the body naturally craves this feeling and eating 
 well and being active is our natural default setting - I live that 
 lifestyle not because i'm on a specific diet and exercise regimen, but 
 simply because it makes me feel good, day in and day out.  it give me 
 energy to do the things I like doing.  it naturally relieves stress.  it 
 promotes rest and sleep.  there's no choice or calculus about whether to 
 eat this or that, or whether i should do cardio - the only choice is 
 whether i want to feel good or feel like crap.  

 culturally, we're getting pretty far removed from our natural wellness 
 default.  obesity, depression, anxiety ... that stuff goes hand-in-hand.  
 life gets out of control, weight gets out of control, and we eventually 
 start to lose our minds and feel like crap all the time.  to feel good 
 again, people over compensate with the things that should make us feel good 
 - over eating is a prime example.  Comfort has literally become a food 
 group.  

 we need to get back to the basics and those who are really struggling with 
 weight need a multi-dimensional solution.  be active.  have sex.  sleep.  
 volunteer.  pet a dog.  learn something new.  unplug the computer/TV and go 
 outside.  that seems like a better prescription for weight loss than any 
 diet.  


-- 
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread Peter Morgano

All good points but the issues I at least find in my life are bigger than
just wanting to change or doing things differently. Me and my wife get up
at 7 and dont get back home from work until 6:30, then we eat dinner with
our daughter, do homework and bed time. By then it is 8:30-9pm and everyone
is exhausted and just wants to relax.  I do often get out on the bike and
do an hour before coming home to shower and hit they hay but I have to make
myself get out there alot of the time. Once I do though it is always a good
decision as I feel better for having done it, and really enjoy myself to be
sure. Not to get too meta here but the problem for alot of us is we are in
a society that demands we work 50 hours a week and keep up a working family
unit AND look great all the time and just something has to give. Newsweek
had a great article last week pertaining to how this modern schedule is
affecting women but touched on that no-one can lead a happy life at those
levels. It is just sad to see a society that villifies people who are out
of shape or frazzled so bad from just the daily grind that at the end of
the day all they want to do is watch tv and eat some chips or ice cream. It
is alot easier to just tell people to live healthier lives and get in
shape, it is harder to understand the underlying causes of what makes
people have to live unhealthy lives in the first place.

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:46 AM, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if trying
 to lose fat) this doesn't work. I haven't stopped doing any of those
 things heck we don't even have television...A holistic approach is
 definitely important but the basic fact is about what and how much of it we
 eat.  Years of bad living often mean the damage is already done and some
 might only be able to slow the deterioration down making it difficult to
 return to a healthy body fat percentage and overall health. All the more
 reason to get on it as soon as possible. It is a well know fact that a very
 low percentage of the truly obese are not often successful in their efforts
 to lose fat. It is a real problem for some and not often understood by
 the average slightly chubby person. The subject and the people are more
 often laughed about, (I witnessed that yesterday at work) or dismissed as
 being lazy or otherwise flawed but that's another story


 we need to get back to the basics and those who are really struggling
 with weight need a multi-dimensional solution.  be active.  have sex.
 sleep.  volunteer.  pet a dog.  learn something new.  unplug the
 computer/TV and go outside.  that seems like a better prescription for
 weight loss than any diet.

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:43:43 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Monday, October 8, 2012 12:36:23 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:

 There is a whole community of people who were inspired by Bill Clinton's
 weight loss based on a lifestyle and diet changes . ..


 Bill Clinton aside, lifestyle is a very important part of the
 equation.  There's a lot of talk about what to eat, how to eat, blah, blah
 .  . . but I don't think all that talk makes much difference if other
 aspects of lifestyle are out of balance.  There's a distinct feeling that
 comes with wellness - things get easy because being physically and mentally
 well feels really, really good.  the body naturally craves this feeling and
 eating well and being active is our natural default setting - I live that
 lifestyle not because i'm on a specific diet and exercise regimen, but
 simply because it makes me feel good, day in and day out.  it give me
 energy to do the things I like doing.  it naturally relieves stress.  it
 promotes rest and sleep.  there's no choice or calculus about whether to
 eat this or that, or whether i should do cardio - the only choice is
 whether i want to feel good or feel like crap.

 culturally, we're getting pretty far removed from our natural wellness
 default.  obesity, depression, anxiety ... that stuff goes hand-in-hand.
 life gets out of control, weight gets out of control, and we eventually
 start to lose our minds and feel like crap all the time.  to feel good
 again, people over compensate with the things that should make us feel good
 - over eating is a prime example.  Comfort has literally become a food
 group.

 we need to get back to the basics and those who are really struggling
 with weight need a multi-dimensional solution.  be active.  have sex.
 sleep.  volunteer.  pet a dog.  learn something new.  unplug the
 computer/TV and go outside.  that seems like a better prescription for
 weight loss than any diet.

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 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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 To view this discussion on the web visit
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread Lyle Bogart

the problem for alot of us is we are in a society that demands we work 50
hours a week and keep up a working family unit AND look great all the time
and just something has to give

+1

On 10 October 2012 10:04, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com wrote:

 All good points but the issues I at least find in my life are bigger than
 just wanting to change or doing things differently. Me and my wife get up
 at 7 and dont get back home from work until 6:30, then we eat dinner with
 our daughter, do homework and bed time. By then it is 8:30-9pm and everyone
 is exhausted and just wants to relax.  I do often get out on the bike and
 do an hour before coming home to shower and hit they hay but I have to make
 myself get out there alot of the time. Once I do though it is always a good
 decision as I feel better for having done it, and really enjoy myself to be
 sure. Not to get too meta here but the problem for alot of us is we are in
 a society that demands we work 50 hours a week and keep up a working family
 unit AND look great all the time and just something has to give. Newsweek
 had a great article last week pertaining to how this modern schedule is
 affecting women but touched on that no-one can lead a happy life at those
 levels. It is just sad to see a society that villifies people who are out
 of shape or frazzled so bad from just the daily grind that at the end of
 the day all they want to do is watch tv and eat some chips or ice cream. It
 is alot easier to just tell people to live healthier lives and get in
 shape, it is harder to understand the underlying causes of what makes
 people have to live unhealthy lives in the first place.

 On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:46 AM, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote:

 I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if
 trying to lose fat) this doesn't work. I haven't stopped doing any of those
 things heck we don't even have television...A holistic approach is
 definitely important but the basic fact is about what and how much of it we
 eat.  Years of bad living often mean the damage is already done and some
 might only be able to slow the deterioration down making it difficult to
 return to a healthy body fat percentage and overall health. All the more
 reason to get on it as soon as possible. It is a well know fact that a very
 low percentage of the truly obese are not often successful in their efforts
 to lose fat. It is a real problem for some and not often understood by
 the average slightly chubby person. The subject and the people are more
 often laughed about, (I witnessed that yesterday at work) or dismissed as
 being lazy or otherwise flawed but that's another story


 we need to get back to the basics and those who are really struggling
 with weight need a multi-dimensional solution.  be active.  have sex.
 sleep.  volunteer.  pet a dog.  learn something new.  unplug the
 computer/TV and go outside.  that seems like a better prescription for
 weight loss than any diet.

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 7:43:43 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:

 On Monday, October 8, 2012 12:36:23 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:

 There is a whole community of people who were inspired by Bill
 Clinton's weight loss based on a lifestyle and diet changes . ..


 Bill Clinton aside, lifestyle is a very important part of the
 equation.  There's a lot of talk about what to eat, how to eat, blah, blah
 .  . . but I don't think all that talk makes much difference if other
 aspects of lifestyle are out of balance.  There's a distinct feeling that
 comes with wellness - things get easy because being physically and mentally
 well feels really, really good.  the body naturally craves this feeling and
 eating well and being active is our natural default setting - I live that
 lifestyle not because i'm on a specific diet and exercise regimen, but
 simply because it makes me feel good, day in and day out.  it give me
 energy to do the things I like doing.  it naturally relieves stress.  it
 promotes rest and sleep.  there's no choice or calculus about whether to
 eat this or that, or whether i should do cardio - the only choice is
 whether i want to feel good or feel like crap.

 culturally, we're getting pretty far removed from our natural wellness
 default.  obesity, depression, anxiety ... that stuff goes hand-in-hand.
 life gets out of control, weight gets out of control, and we eventually
 start to lose our minds and feel like crap all the time.  to feel good
 again, people over compensate with the things that should make us feel good
 - over eating is a prime example.  Comfort has literally become a food
 group.

 we need to get back to the basics and those who are really struggling
 with weight need a multi-dimensional solution.  be active.  have sex.
 sleep.  volunteer.  pet a dog.  learn something new.  unplug the
 computer/TV and go outside.  that seems like a better prescription for
 weight loss than any diet.

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread PATRICK MOORE

Good point, Peter. When you have demoralizing and therefore fatiguing
industrialized work that has been broken down into inevitably
dissatisfying unintelligible fragments -- true even of much white collar
work -- combined with an agressive search for efficiency-for-profit that
requires overwork just to let a family earn enough to meet social
expectations for decent living, expectations that require an excess of
expensive, intrinsically useless gadgetry (note that I realize that such
gadgets have incidental but still very great benefits; I have two Macs and
an iPhone, a microwave, and a car -- but no TV), and a material
infrastructure that has been spread out geographically to meet the demand
for more auto sales, leaving us to spend far too much time driving to and
from our various activities: when you put all this together, it's not
surprising that mental and physical health have to be maintained
artificially instead of being supported by the ordinary daily routine.

My ex's way of living and my own illustrate this in a small way: she is a
successful pediatrician and doctor of oriental medicine who, with her
second husband, has opened a successful clinic and beauty treatment spa,
and who over schedules our daughter with activities scattered around town
so that of my circa 4,000 miles a year in the car (I work at home), fully
3,000 are for my daughter. My ex is fiercely disciplined and manages to
cook well, exercise, and find recreation outside of her lengthy weekly work
schedule, but it is, even for me who am only peripherally affected by it,
rather exhausting. Note that discipline counts: her second husband, an
OB-GYN, just turned 50, recently competed in his first Ironman -- in Wales.

Some years ago I read an interesting book by an ex MIT MS graduate whose
Master's project had been to live with a very strict Amish or Mennonite
group so traditional and secretive that he could not name their location
(somewhere in the midwest, I think) to discover how their leisure time,
quality of life and life-satisfaction compared to those of the average
American. He found that because of community, simplicity in their manner of
life, and maintenance of largely forgotten, traditional methods of work,
that despite their eschewal of labor saving devices --- no horse drawn,
gasoline-powered cultivators or motorized churns for them -- they were on
the whole happier, more leisured, better fed and better rested than his
control group. -- Tho' I doubt they rode bicycles.

FWIW and as an aside:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/not-amish-but-close/


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Peter Morgano uscpeter11...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Not to get too meta here but the problem for alot of us is we are in a
 society that demands we work 50 hours a week and keep up a working
 family unit AND look great all the time and just something has to give.
 Newsweek had a great article last week pertaining to how this modern
 schedule is affecting women but touched on that no-one can lead a
 happy life at those levels. It is just sad to see a society that
villifies
people who are out of shape or frazzled so bad from just the daily
 grind that at the end of the day all they want to do is watch tv and eat
 some chips or ice cream.
-- 
Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread Patrick in VT

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if trying
to lose fat) this doesn't work.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if trying
to lose fat) this doesn't work.

of course food is part of the wellness equation. my point is that positive
lifestyle choices have a way of gaining momentum and spilling over into
other aspects of our lives. when we are well, the choice to eat
healthfully and be active becomes less and less of a choice. like Lyle
wrote above, he plays for fitness. wellness is a self-reinforcing cycle,
just as unhealthy lifestyles and diet are part of a self-reinforcing
vicious cycle.

in this context, it doesn't surprise me at all that the truly obese have a
serious struggle as depression, social anxiety and an unhealthy
relationship with food and/or substance abuse trend together. Food is
particularly tricky because we eat 3-5 times/day - if somebody is bummed
out or stressed out, it's going to be damn hard to do the right thing
3-5/day. i linked a bike related story below - I've met this guy. his
story made an impact on me and got me thinking about how mind and body need
to work together to solve these problems. the common thread with a lot of
the success stories i've read have to do with goal setting - and not, i'm
going to lose 20lbs by changing what I eat kind of goals. weight loss via
diet alone doesn't address the bigger issue that is lifestyle. when the
going gets rough, there's nothing to reinforce the positive choices that
led to the weight loss and people inevitably put the weight back on.
setting goals that help build a supportive social network, promote an
active lifestyle, etc. will guide one to positive choices all around, push
us to be the best version of ourselves and get on the path to mental and
physical wellness. food, both good and bad, has been around for a long
time - to start blaming these foods or those foods now instead of
recognizing and acknowledging cultural issues and being honest with
ourselves about how we live and what we eat is a red herring. food is
simple. life isn't - and that's when food becomes complicated.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/a-bicycle-and-a-few-friends-lead-a-big-man-into-an-even-bigger-world_226368

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread charlie

I don't doubt Ernest was depressed and it is quite an achievement to lose
200 pounds (me only 90 total) and I don't doubt the mind, body, lifestyle
thing all have to work together.. I do believe however that eating
carbohydrates does drive your blood sugar up causing the yo yo effect
creating cravings for more and since they are not burned up or handled by
an exhausted pancreas they get stored as fat. Pretty simple to me and is my
experience. Eating protein, fat and veggies primarily has made it easier to
resist sugar cravings, keeps me satiated and fuels the old body throughout
the day without hunger. As far as maintaining the choice to eat that way,
yes...you have to make it a lifestyle change (sometimes on a minute by
minute basis) and you can't (without consequences), compromise very often
or at all depending on your particular sensitivity. Moving around is
important also but I will say that my first 30 pound loss was while I was
working 12 hours+ a day at a sit down job and doing virtually no exercise
other than the very spotty bicycle ride a couple days a week. Working less,
sleeping more and moving around are the changes I am slowly making as a few
financial things fall into place. The one thing I can easily choose
regardless of my current hectic lifestyle however is the type and amount of
food I consume. I now end my speech and defer to others...

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:48:49 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:I

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if
trying to lose fat) this doesn't work.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if
trying to lose fat) this doesn't work.

of course food is part of the wellness equation. my point is that
positive lifestyle choices have a way of gaining momentum and spilling over
into other aspects of our lives. when we are well, the choice to eat
healthfully and be active becomes less and less of a choice. like Lyle
wrote above, he plays for fitness. wellness is a self-reinforcing cycle,
just as unhealthy lifestyles and diet are part of a self-reinforcing
vicious cycle.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/a-bicycle-and-a-few-friends-lead-a-big-man-into-an-even-bigger-world_226368

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread charlie

Oh by the way I had 90 lbs. to lose total and so far 30 of it isgone for
over a year and a half. Weight hasn't gone up but progress has stalled for
me due to the compromise that I mentioned earlier.some stressful family
situations haven't made it easier. For now I am happy to maintain where I
am at currently and not gain while I make a few other changes and can
re-focus. Grants book Just ride simplifies what I am attempting to do.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:12:03 PM UTC-7, charlie wrote:

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:48:49 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:I

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if
trying to lose fat) this doesn't work.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if
trying to lose fat) this doesn't work.

of course food is part of the wellness equation. my point is that
positive lifestyle choices have a way of gaining momentum and spilling over
into other aspects of our lives. when we are well, the choice to eat
healthfully and be active becomes less and less of a choice. like Lyle
wrote above, he plays for fitness. wellness is a self-reinforcing cycle,
just as unhealthy lifestyles and diet are part of a self-reinforcing
vicious cycle.

in this context, it doesn't surprise me at all that the truly obese have
a serious struggle as depression, social anxiety and an unhealthy
relationship with food and/or substance abuse trend together. Food is
particularly tricky because we eat 3-5 times/day - if somebody is bummed
out or stressed out, it's going to be damn hard to do the right thing
3-5/day. i linked a bike related story below - I've met this guy. his
story made an impact on me and got me thinking about how mind and body need
to work together to solve these problems. the common thread with a lot of
the success stories i've read have to do with goal setting - and not, i'm
going to lose 20lbs by changing what I eat kind of goals. weight loss via
diet alone doesn't address the bigger issue that is lifestyle. when the
going gets rough, there's nothing to reinforce the positive choices that
led to the weight loss and people inevitably put the weight back on.
setting goals that help build a supportive social network, promote an
active lifestyle, etc. will guide one to positive choices all around, push
us to be the best version of ourselves and get on the path to mental and
physical wellness. food, both good and bad, has been around for a long
time - to start blaming these foods or those foods now instead of
recognizing and acknowledging cultural issues and being honest with
ourselves about how we live and what we eat is a red herring. food is
simple. life isn't - and that's when food becomes complicated.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/a-bicycle-and-a-few-friends-lead-a-big-man-into-an-even-bigger-world_226368

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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread Bertin753

Again, not to be annoying, this applies to some people and not for others.

Patrick Moore
iPhone

On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:12 PM, charlie cl_v...@hotmail.com wrote:

I don't doubt Ernest was depressed and it is quite an achievement to lose 200
pounds (me only 90 total) and I don't doubt the mind, body, lifestyle thing
all have to work together.. I do believe however that eating
carbohydrates does drive your blood sugar up causing the yo yo effect
creating cravings for more and since they are not burned up or handled by an
exhausted pancreas they get stored as fat. Pretty simple to me and is my
experience. Eating protein, fat and veggies primarily has made it easier to
resist sugar cravings, keeps me satiated and fuels the old body throughout
the day without hunger. As far as maintaining the choice to eat that way,
yes...you have to make it a lifestyle change (sometimes on a minute by
minute basis) and you can't (without consequences), compromise very often or
at all depending on your particular sensitivity. Moving around is important
also but I will say that my first 30 pound loss was while I was working 12
hours+ a day at a sit down job and doing virtually no exercise other than the
very spotty bicycle ride a couple days a week. Working less, sleeping more
and moving around are the changes I am slowly making as a few financial
things fall into place. The one thing I can easily choose regardless of my
current hectic lifestyle however is the type and amount of food I consume. I
now end my speech and defer to others...

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:48:49 AM UTC-7, Patrick in VT wrote:I

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if trying
to lose fat) this doesn't work.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:46:46 AM UTC-4, charlie wrote:

I don't disagree but without and actual change in what one eats (if trying
to lose fat) this doesn't work.

of course food is part of the wellness equation. my point is that positive
lifestyle choices have a way of gaining momentum and spilling over into
other aspects of our lives. when we are well, the choice to eat healthfully
and be active becomes less and less of a choice. like Lyle wrote above, he
plays for fitness. wellness is a self-reinforcing cycle, just as
unhealthy lifestyles and diet are part of a self-reinforcing vicious
cycle.

in this context, it doesn't surprise me at all that the truly obese have a
serious struggle as depression, social anxiety and an unhealthy relationship
with food and/or substance abuse trend together. Food is particularly
tricky because we eat 3-5 times/day - if somebody is bummed out or stressed
out, it's going to be damn hard to do the right thing 3-5/day. i linked a
bike related story below - I've met this guy. his story made an impact on
me and got me thinking about how mind and body need to work together to
solve these problems. the common thread with a lot of the success stories
i've read have to do with goal setting - and not, i'm going to lose 20lbs
by changing what I eat kind of goals. weight loss via diet alone doesn't
address the bigger issue that is lifestyle. when the going gets rough,
there's nothing to reinforce the positive choices that led to the weight
loss and people inevitably put the weight back on. setting goals that help
build a supportive social network, promote an active lifestyle, etc. will
guide one to positive choices all around, push us to be the best version of
ourselves and get on the path to mental and physical wellness. food, both
good and bad, has been around for a long time - to start blaming these foods
or those foods now instead of recognizing and acknowledging cultural issues
and being honest with ourselves about how we live and what we eat is a red
herring. food is simple. life isn't - and that's when food becomes
complicated.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/06/news/a-bicycle-and-a-few-friends-lead-a-big-man-into-an-even-bigger-world_226368
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Re: [RBW] That Diet and Exercise thing again!

2012-10-10 Thread charlie

Yes Patrick,

If you are a leaned out super stud with no health problems due to your
diet you may rest on the knowledge that you are invincible ; ) Ride on
brutha its all good.

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:25:16 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

Again, not to be annoying, this applies to some people and not for others.

Patrick Moore
iPhone

On Oct 10, 2012, at 9:12 PM, charlie cl_...@hotmail.com javascript:
wrote: