Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kim H.]

@David Jones -  I enjoyed reading your post. Hearing another facet of 
perspectives of your thoughts on " A College Clem". Very well written I 
must say. 

Thank-you.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Friday, August 18, 2023 at 10:20:07 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Hi David, 
>
> Thank you for asking about Dad. Dad was a darling, the kind of man you 
> love to love. He died too young, only 62.
>
> Dad taught me many things, but this is a lesson he never meant to teach…
>
> Dad took meticulous care of his things. He collected historical books and 
> had each one jacketed at our local library. He never used soap in the 
> whirlpool, believing it would wreck it. He put a tablecloth over their 
> Amish-made dining room table, fearing that the wood would be scratched. He 
> was gentle and careful and he tried to keep his things looking new. He 
> always said when he retired he would buy two things: a new pickup and a new 
> boat. 
>
> He got a ding in the prop of that new boat and agonized over it. He 
> planned to replace the propeller so it would look new again. He hesitated 
> to trailer the boat to my brother’s house across the state, fearing some 
> sort of cosmetic damage would befall it. (Mom forced his hand because she 
> wanted to take the grandkids boating.) He got his new truck but mostly 
> drove his old one, wanting to “keep the miles off” the new one. The 
> beautiful, expensive new truck sat, parked in the driveway. 
>
> He died suddenly, soon after retiring. The truck was the first thing we 
> sold. 
>
> Dad taught me a lot of things, but his final, unintended lesson taught me 
> not to sit on my treasures, but to use them and enjoy them. 
>
> Thanks again,
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 18, 2023, at 12:37 PM, David Jones  wrote:
>
> 
> Well, Leah, you sure opened up a thread that everyone seems to want to 
> weigh in on, and a thread that seems to be enjoying a longevity that few 
> can match.
>
> One thought I had that hasn't been covered by anyone, yet, is:  "What 
> would your father's wishes be for this bike?  Which of the different 
> actions you are considering would honor his memory to the fullest degree 
> possible?" 
>
> My original, brief, response was to keep it home during college to protect 
> it from being stolen.  My thinking was that "it's a long life" and your son 
> will have a better chance of staying connected to his grandfather by having 
> decades to enjoy riding the bike.  But if your father was a person who was 
> a "pin your ears back" risk taker who approached life as if there were no 
> guarantees of tomorrow or appreciated a certain detachment to "things," 
> then by all means "seize the day" and send the bike with your son to 
> college, fully recognizing the inherent risks involved and, hopefully, 
> having made peace with the possibility of him graduating from college 
> without the bike in his possession.
>
> David Jones
>
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 12:52 PM Davey Two Shoes  
> wrote:
>
>> Send Grandpa's Clem! 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 6:29:17 PM UTC-4 Will wrote:
>>
>>> Oh yes it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a 
>>> few duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:24:24 PM UTC-5 Will wrote:
>>>
 When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA 
 (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I 
 had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave 
 them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and 
 maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking 
 for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc 
 brakes. 
 And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. 

 Will

 On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back 
> about 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went 
> to 
> a large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through 
> mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over 
> the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without 
> life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I 
> still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are 
> things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your 
> family 
> to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but 
> any 
> thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year 
> with 
> the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? 
>
> Good luck with your decision.
> Matt in STL
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Leah Peterson]

Hi David, Thank you for asking about Dad. Dad was a darling, the kind of man you love to love. He died too young, only 62.Dad taught me many things, but this is a lesson he never meant to teach…Dad took meticulous care of his things. He collected historical books and had each one jacketed at our local library. He never used soap in the whirlpool, believing it would wreck it. He put a tablecloth over their Amish-made dining room table, fearing that the wood would be scratched. He was gentle and careful and he tried to keep his things looking new. He always said when he retired he would buy two things: a new pickup and a new boat. He got a ding in the prop of that new boat and agonized over it. He planned to replace the propeller so it would look new again. He hesitated to trailer the boat to my brother’s house across the state, fearing some sort of cosmetic damage would befall it. (Mom forced his hand because she wanted to take the grandkids boating.) He got his new truck but mostly drove his old one, wanting to “keep the miles off” the new one. The beautiful, expensive new truck sat, parked in the driveway. He died suddenly, soon after retiring. The truck was the first thing we sold. Dad taught me a lot of things, but his final, unintended lesson taught me not to sit on my treasures, but to use them and enjoy them. Thanks again,LeahSent from my iPhoneOn Aug 18, 2023, at 12:37 PM, David Jones  wrote:Well, Leah, you sure opened up a thread that everyone seems to want to weigh in on, and a thread that seems to be enjoying a longevity that few can match.One thought I had that hasn't been covered by anyone, yet, is:  "What would your father's wishes be for this bike?  Which of the different actions you are considering would honor his memory to the fullest degree possible?" My original, brief, response was to keep it home during college to protect it from being stolen.  My thinking was that "it's a long life" and your son will have a better chance of staying connected to his grandfather by having decades to enjoy riding the bike.  But if your father was a person who was a "pin your ears back" risk taker who approached life as if there were no guarantees of tomorrow or appreciated a certain detachment to "things," then by all means "seize the day" and send the bike with your son to college, fully recognizing the inherent risks involved and, hopefully, having made peace with the possibility of him graduating from college without the bike in his possession.David JonesOn Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 12:52 PM Davey Two Shoes  wrote:Send Grandpa's Clem! On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 6:29:17 PM UTC-4 Will wrote:Oh yes it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a few duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame. On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:24:24 PM UTC-5 Will wrote:When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes. And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. WillOn Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com wrote:I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? Good luck with your decision.Matt in STLOn Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.DougOn Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. I grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there are parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[David Jones]

Well, Leah, you sure opened up a thread that everyone seems to want to
weigh in on, and a thread that seems to be enjoying a longevity that few
can match.

One thought I had that hasn't been covered by anyone, yet, is:  "What would
your father's wishes be for this bike?  Which of the different actions you
are considering would honor his memory to the fullest degree possible?"

My original, brief, response was to keep it home during college to protect
it from being stolen.  My thinking was that "it's a long life" and your son
will have a better chance of staying connected to his grandfather by having
decades to enjoy riding the bike.  But if your father was a person who was
a "pin your ears back" risk taker who approached life as if there were no
guarantees of tomorrow or appreciated a certain detachment to "things,"
then by all means "seize the day" and send the bike with your son to
college, fully recognizing the inherent risks involved and, hopefully,
having made peace with the possibility of him graduating from college
without the bike in his possession.

David Jones

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 12:52 PM Davey Two Shoes 
wrote:

> Send Grandpa's Clem!
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 6:29:17 PM UTC-4 Will wrote:
>
>> Oh yes it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a few
>> duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:24:24 PM UTC-5 Will wrote:
>>
>>> When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA
>>> (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I
>>> had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave
>>> them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and
>>> maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking
>>> for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes.
>>> And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem.
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about
 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a
 large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through
 mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over
 the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without
 life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I
 still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are
 things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family
 to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any
 thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with
 the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year?

 Good luck with your decision.
 Matt in STL

 On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was
> an 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In
> college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the
> bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and
> really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright
> wrote:
>
>> Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college
>> student. I grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad
>> that there are parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living 
>> a
>> happily car free college life.
>>
>> I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As
>> an adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in 
>> my
>> dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark
>> and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend
>> "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He
>> taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike
>> studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour 
>> in
>> my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed.
>>
>> Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker
>> who talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" 
>> mind
>> you) for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO
>> friend came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco
>> style) on that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest 
>> day
>> of my life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a 
>> waterfall

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[藍俊彪]

I resisted moving to Los Altos as long as I could, but having moved here, I
will say that the riding is superlative compared even to Sunnyvale. All the
hills you can get, while the valley being flat enough that the kids can
bike to school without complaining. I was quite impressed to see so many
kids riding to school and even more impressed that the elementary school
had a bike cage that locked once classes started!

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 4:54 PM Kim H.  wrote:

> @Piaw - I had a feeling you would be chiming in after me mentioning of Los
> Altos and Foothill College.
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 4:30:28 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Foothill/Los Altos isn't the den of bike thieves that a big city college
>> campus like Berkeley or City College San Francisco is going to be. Of
>> course, my mother in law left a $1700 REI ebike unattended outside ranch 99
>> for a few minutes while shopping and of course it was gone before she came
>> back.
>>
>> Here's the thing: if you can be bothered to be on a bicycle mailing list
>> at all you're probably a bikie and would care about bikes.  Someone who's
>> not a bike (like me during my freshman year in college) is going to get a
>> bike stolen and shrug. (I hurt more from my MIL losing her ebike than she
>> did --- she shrugged and walked home --- needless to say we did not buy her
>> another expensive bike to replace the one that was stolen!)
>>
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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kim H.]

@Piaw - I had a feeling you would be chiming in after me mentioning of Los 
Altos and Foothill College.

Kim Hetzel.

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 4:30:28 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Foothill/Los Altos isn't the den of bike thieves that a big city college 
> campus like Berkeley or City College San Francisco is going to be. Of 
> course, my mother in law left a $1700 REI ebike unattended outside ranch 99 
> for a few minutes while shopping and of course it was gone before she came 
> back.
>
> Here's the thing: if you can be bothered to be on a bicycle mailing list 
> at all you're probably a bikie and would care about bikes.  Someone who's 
> not a bike (like me during my freshman year in college) is going to get a 
> bike stolen and shrug. (I hurt more from my MIL losing her ebike than she 
> did --- she shrugged and walked home --- needless to say we did not buy her 
> another expensive bike to replace the one that was stolen!) 
>

-- 
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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Piaw Na]

Foothill/Los Altos isn't the den of bike thieves that a big city college 
campus like Berkeley or City College San Francisco is going to be. Of 
course, my mother in law left a $1700 REI ebike unattended outside ranch 99 
for a few minutes while shopping and of course it was gone before she came 
back.

Here's the thing: if you can be bothered to be on a bicycle mailing list at 
all you're probably a bikie and would care about bikes.  Someone who's not 
a bike (like me during my freshman year in college) is going to get a bike 
stolen and shrug. (I hurt more from my MIL losing her ebike than she did 
--- she shrugged and walked home --- needless to say we did not buy her 
another expensive bike to replace the one that was stolen!) 

-- 
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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kim H.]

I went to Foothill Junior College in Los Altos Hills, California from the 
fall of 1973 to June of 1977. You ask why I went there for four years ?  I 
had to be on my mother's employer's dental insurance to be covered for 
dental bridges for most of my entire mouth.

In the course of my college attendance, in December of 1973, I purchased 
for $380.00 my first real ten-speed bicycle a 1973 Cilo Sprintx 
semi-professional racing bicycle from owning a $150.00 Dutch Batavus 
ten-speed bike from the previous summer as an upgrade. Not knowing a lot 
about bicycles and what style of riding I enjoyed that most, I found myself 
selling most all of the Campagnolo componentry within six months of 
purchase, because the drive train gearing limited me from climbing the 
foothills above Santa Clara County to Skyline Boulevard SR 35 and beyond. 

I bought new componentry of the day that was the best of its time for my 
Cilo, such as Phil Wood hubs and pedals, Super Champion rims, Avocet 
saddle, Suntour Cyclone f/r derailleurs, T. A. Cyclotourist,crankset, 
Suntour Bar-Con ratchet shifters, Bluemel fenders and ultimately finding a 
NIB Campagnolo Nuovo Records side pull brakeset for my sports touring bike. 
The Campy brakeset was the ultimate cool to have back then. I purchase the 
brakeset for a bargain price of $75.00, plus tax !  They were going for 
$140.00 retail. 

I rode my Cilo to college year round from my parents house and back was 4.4 
miles. There were times that I rode my 1966 Raleigh three speed, as well. I 
did lock up my Raleigh three speed in a bike rack. It never got stolen. 
With my Cilo, I took it every where I went inside the classrooms and 
lecture halls, including the bathrooms around campus. It never left my 
sight. I never locked it up. It never has seen a kickstand either. 

When I was not attending college on the weekends, I would make my rounds of 
visiting all the bike shops in the area from I lived in Mountain View to 
Los Altos, Sunnyvale, Cupertino, to Palo Alto to see what was new and talk 
to a few of the owners or staff or ride solo up into the hills of Santa 
Cruz or ride with a friend out to Woodside and over to the coast through 
Portola Valley to San Gregorio to Half Moon Bay.

Over time, my Cilo became my favorite road bike of all for about forty 
years. It fit me perfectly in very way. It felt like a European sports car. 
I honestly cannot tell you how many miles I rode on it. Bicycle computers 
were not available back then. I never bothered to buy the old 
mileage/odometer meter. My guess would be between 3,000 to 5,000+ miles ? 

I retired my Cilo back in 2011, I grew older and riding in the drops was 
not comfortable anymore. I wanted to find another bicycle for an upright 
riding position and lower gearing. It took me a very long time for the 
right moment to purchase a Clem Smith Jr. "L" bicycle last year and fall in 
love again. Owing a Rivendell bike was the last thing I thought I would 
ever own.  I know now what it like to own a bicycle from Rivendell Bicycle 
Works. Thank-you, Grant Petersen !

Kim Hetzel
.sheltering inside my the intense heat in the low 90's today in air 
conditioning. I wish I could have stayed longer in Sitka, AK with grey 
clouds and rain. 
Yelm, WA. 

On Wednesday, August 16, 2023 at 10:52:46 AM UTC-7 Davey Two Shoes wrote:

> Send Grandpa's Clem! 
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 6:29:17 PM UTC-4 Will wrote:
>
>> Oh yes it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a few 
>> duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:24:24 PM UTC-5 Will wrote:
>>
>>> When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA 
>>> (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I 
>>> had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave 
>>> them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and 
>>> maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking 
>>> for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes. 
>>> And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. 
>>>
>>> Will
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 
 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a 
 large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through 
 mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over 
 the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without 
 life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I 
 still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are 
 things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your 
 family 
 to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Leah,
I probably can't add much to the discussion that hasn't already been 
mentioned aside from more personal anecdotes, but catching up on this 
thread has ignited some thoughts and reminiscing so will try my best to 
share my .02 cents without being redundant.  Fortunately, you have more 
time to figure things out but that same time leads to more fretting and 
potential for circumstances to change but best of luck with this decision 
and to your son on his journey either way.  Initially, I leaned to the 'get 
the lay of the land' perspective before being pressured to make a 'which 
bike decision' but I then realized this is also somewhat ironic in that 
depending on the school/campus just having a bike those first few weeks 
could in turn help your son get a better lay of he land!  

I attended a small, suburban, public school - I had no need for 
transportation to get around campus as it was easily walkable no matter 
where your dorm or classes were.  I didn't have a car on campus until 
halfway through my 2nd year. I didn't have a bike on campus until my 3rd 
year when I moved into an off-campus, but very local, private rental with 
friends and transported the bike from home to school in my own vehicle.  I 
was a fairweather bike commuter that 3rd year but had a garage to store it 
and never kept it locked overnight (that I recall) but would leave it 
locked up for extended periods in a somewhat high traffic area.  It was a 
90's MTB that I bought new at around 14-15yrs old as my first proper bike 
shop bike.  It was ridden heavily until I began driving.  Then it collected 
dust, aside from occasional summer use, until I came back to school that 
3rd year.  I was fortunate to go unscathed that year with nothing more than 
a small cable lock for security and still have the frame in use today!  
It's a basic, rigid MTB Mongoose branded bike which had reliable Shimano 
3x7 indexed components but by that point I think Mongoose had already 
devolved into a low end big box brand so wasn't likely drawing too much 
attention from even opportunistic thieves even though it predated the 
Mongoose sale/demise and is a decent Taiwan made chromoly frame with full 
Shimano components.  Despite sitting for a few years it showed it's age 
from it's heavy initial use and remained almost entirely stock with little 
more maintenance than an occasional chain lube.  I didn't have racks or 
carry spare tubes or a pump or anything and was really fortunate going 
flat-less and theft free that entire year (I'd eventually learn the hard 
way several years later to prepare and be self sufficient for flats and 
roadside mechanical failures!) 

4th year I moved further away into another rental and the bike went back 
home.  In hindsight, and based on my adult biking experience, the distance 
was certainly 'bike-commutable' but this rental lacked a garage so bike 
storage would have been relegated to a covered porch but in a more theft 
prone neighborhood so I just abandoned it for the year knowing I'd use it 
very little that year.  I was a 5th year undergrad student after cutting 
back to part time for my 4th year and brought the bike back for my 5th and 
final year but not for commuting purposes.  I moved even further from 
campus but we found a nice house adjacent to a rail trail system so the 
bike was purely for leisure rides along the trails that year and I again 
had a garage for overnight storage.

My own early college experience was also based on the fact that I did not 
come from a bicycle-centric family.  I rode everywhere in my teens but we 
as a family were nowhere near prepared to transport my bike to school that 
first or second year.  You already have that part all figured out with a 
car rack, etc.  Some dorms had racks out front but my sophomore dorm had 
basement bike storage - looking back I should have at least taken advantage 
of that opportunity with the basement bike rack.  I could have ventured off 
campus more frequently and at my leisure without relying on hitching a ride 
or borrowing a friends car.  Those fist two years were actually rather 
confining now that I reflect on it.  There was no need for transportation 
to get around campus just a need for transportation to get away from 
campus.  As a freshman I also lost my father unexpectedly a month into 
school and that set an unexpected trajectory into diving deep into my 
coursework but also into partying at the same time.  I was already a night 
owl in highschool but further deepened this routine of staying up all night 
and sleeping all day.  In hindsight, having a bicycle available may have 
provided more opportunities to explore other interests besides video games, 
partying, and my coursework and may have provided a little more motivation 
to get out and explore around town on weekends rather than choosing the 
more self destructive uses of my time.  Maybe... though probably not... 
just knowing where I was at the time and not having the 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Davey Two Shoes]

Send Grandpa's Clem! 

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 6:29:17 PM UTC-4 Will wrote:

> Oh yes it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a few 
> duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame. 
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:24:24 PM UTC-5 Will wrote:
>
>> When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA 
>> (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I 
>> had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave 
>> them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and 
>> maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking 
>> for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes. 
>> And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. 
>>
>> Will
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 
>>> 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a 
>>> large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through 
>>> mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over 
>>> the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without 
>>> life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I 
>>> still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are 
>>> things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family 
>>> to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any 
>>> thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with 
>>> the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? 
>>>
>>> Good luck with your decision.
>>> Matt in STL
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 
 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In 
 college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the 
 bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and 
 really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.
 Doug

 On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college 
> student. I grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad 
> that there are parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living 
> a 
> happily car free college life. 
>
> I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As 
> an adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in 
> my 
> dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark 
> and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend 
> "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He 
> taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike 
> studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour 
> in 
> my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 
>
> Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who 
> talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind 
> you) 
> for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend 
> came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) 
> on 
> that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my 
> life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and 
> it 
> blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared 
> bike 
> - and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 
>
> I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul 
> Trucker. Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the lng 
> top tube after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised 
> the cross check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared 
> Karate Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, 
> but 
> fell back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and 
> rode that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark 
> Remier's first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at 
> the 
> premier. Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in 
> my size. I loved that bike. That concluded my undergradI wont even 
> start on my bikes during my "Grad school years" 
>
> I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is 
> for experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Will]

Oh yes it might help a bit if the bike didn't look so new. With a few 
duct tape patches that can be easily solved without hurting the frame. 

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:24:24 PM UTC-5 Will wrote:

> When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA 
> (French metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I 
> had no problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave 
> them out at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and 
> maybe some wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking 
> for a classic steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes. 
> And there are plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. 
>
> Will
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 
>> 20 years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a 
>> large public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through 
>> mistakes. I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over 
>> the handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without 
>> life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I 
>> still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are 
>> things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family 
>> to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any 
>> thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with 
>> the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? 
>>
>> Good luck with your decision.
>> Matt in STL
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 
>>> 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In 
>>> college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the 
>>> bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and 
>>> really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. 
 I grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there 
 are parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily 
 car 
 free college life. 

 I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As an 
 adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in my 
 dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark 
 and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend 
 "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He 
 taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike 
 studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour 
 in 
 my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 

 Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who 
 talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind 
 you) 
 for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend 
 came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) 
 on 
 that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my 
 life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and 
 it 
 blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared bike 
 - and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 

 I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul 
 Trucker. Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the lng 
 top tube after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised 
 the cross check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared 
 Karate Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, 
 but 
 fell back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and 
 rode that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark 
 Remier's first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at the 
 premier. Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in 
 my size. I loved that bike. That concluded my undergradI wont even 
 start on my bikes during my "Grad school years" 

 I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is 
 for experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike 
 dealings were trade/second hand based being in QBP land) There was just so 
 much to learn and try out -  I couldn't get enough. There were definitely 
 other bikes and builds in there I 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Will]

When I was in college I had a Raleigh Competition and a Raleigh RRA (French 
metric Raleigh bike). It was a small campus in Williamsburg, VA. I had no 
problems with either bike. Yes, I locked them. Yes, I didn't leave them out 
at night and so on, but my point is... with a good U lock and maybe some 
wheel theft clamps, I think you'll be fine. No one is looking for a classic 
steel bike  these days. Now they want carbon and disc brakes. And there are 
plenty of those bikes to steal. I'd give him the Clem. 

Will

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 20 
> years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a large 
> public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through mistakes. 
> I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over the 
> handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without 
> life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I 
> still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are 
> things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family 
> to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any 
> thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with 
> the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? 
>
> Good luck with your decision.
> Matt in STL
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 
>> 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In 
>> college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the 
>> bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and 
>> really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>
>>> Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. 
>>> I grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there 
>>> are parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily car 
>>> free college life. 
>>>
>>> I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As an 
>>> adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in my 
>>> dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark 
>>> and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend 
>>> "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He 
>>> taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike 
>>> studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour in 
>>> my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 
>>>
>>> Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who 
>>> talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind you) 
>>> for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend 
>>> came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) on 
>>> that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my 
>>> life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and it 
>>> blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared bike 
>>> - and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 
>>>
>>> I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul 
>>> Trucker. Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the lng 
>>> top tube after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised 
>>> the cross check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared 
>>> Karate Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, but 
>>> fell back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and 
>>> rode that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark 
>>> Remier's first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at the 
>>> premier. Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in 
>>> my size. I loved that bike. That concluded my undergradI wont even 
>>> start on my bikes during my "Grad school years" 
>>>
>>> I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is for 
>>> experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike dealings 
>>> were trade/second hand based being in QBP land) There was just so much to 
>>> learn and try out -  I couldn't get enough. There were definitely other 
>>> bikes and builds in there I am forgetting like a shogun touring bike etc. 
>>> and lots of BMX bikes. That was just my undergrad...20 years later. Oof - 
>>> not going to think too hard about it. But the enthusiasm hasn't stopped.
>>>
>>> I think it's super cool to have an option for such a versatile bike from 
>>> the get go and supportive parents for a 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[matt miller]

I've been thinking about this situation a lot. (And thinking back about 20 
years to my time in college.) I was from a small town, and went to a large 
public school. I learned a lot, and a lot of learning is through mistakes. 
I did lots of dumb stuff, and minus the time I went flying over the 
handlebars and got an ambulance ride, I was lucky to escape without 
life-altering implications. My grandpa died when I was in college, and I 
still treasure a few small items I have from him. Ultimately, things are 
things, but some things mean more than others. It will be up to your family 
to decide the best route. I'm not sure it's been mentioned before, but any 
thought to taking an entirely different bike first semester/first year with 
the plan to revisit taking the Clem second semester/sophomore year? 

Good luck with your decision.
Matt in STL

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:56:34 PM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 
> 80s kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In 
> college I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the 
> bike was primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and 
> really enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>
>> Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. I 
>> grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there are 
>> parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily car 
>> free college life. 
>>
>> I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As an 
>> adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in my 
>> dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark 
>> and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend 
>> "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He 
>> taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike 
>> studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour in 
>> my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 
>>
>> Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who 
>> talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind you) 
>> for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend 
>> came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) on 
>> that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my 
>> life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and it 
>> blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared bike 
>> - and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 
>>
>> I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul Trucker. 
>> Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the lng top tube 
>> after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised the cross 
>> check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared Karate 
>> Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, but fell 
>> back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and rode 
>> that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark Remier's 
>> first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at the premier. 
>> Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in my size. I 
>> loved that bike. That concluded my undergradI wont even start on my 
>> bikes during my "Grad school years" 
>>
>> I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is for 
>> experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike dealings 
>> were trade/second hand based being in QBP land) There was just so much to 
>> learn and try out -  I couldn't get enough. There were definitely other 
>> bikes and builds in there I am forgetting like a shogun touring bike etc. 
>> and lots of BMX bikes. That was just my undergrad...20 years later. Oof - 
>> not going to think too hard about it. But the enthusiasm hasn't stopped.
>>
>> I think it's super cool to have an option for such a versatile bike from 
>> the get go and supportive parents for a *much* better starting point. I 
>> absolutely believe that Leah's kid is in good hands. Who knows what'll 
>> happen, but he's got a great bike to work with and obviously a lot of love 
>> and support which is super great. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:46:56 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> This is going great you guys. I think it was clear after many days and 
>>> many posts that the question is "what bike?", not does the kid even want 
>>> one. It'd be super if we could stick with that. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:38:13 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be 
 serious and 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Doug H.]

Great story Mackenzy! I think many of us started on BMX bikes. I was an 80s 
kid and the group of guys in my neighborhood all had BMX bikes. In college 
I rode a Trek mountain bike (low end) but also had a car so the bike was 
primarily for exercise. I tried single speed a few years ago and really 
enjoy the simplicity of it even with the limitations.
Doug

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 3:31:13 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. I 
> grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there are 
> parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily car 
> free college life. 
>
> I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As an 
> adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in my 
> dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark 
> and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend 
> "from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He 
> taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike 
> studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour in 
> my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 
>
> Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who 
> talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind you) 
> for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend 
> came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) on 
> that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my 
> life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and it 
> blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared bike 
> - and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 
>
> I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul Trucker. 
> Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the lng top tube 
> after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised the cross 
> check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared Karate 
> Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, but fell 
> back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and rode 
> that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark Remier's 
> first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at the premier. 
> Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in my size. I 
> loved that bike. That concluded my undergradI wont even start on my 
> bikes during my "Grad school years" 
>
> I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is for 
> experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike dealings 
> were trade/second hand based being in QBP land) There was just so much to 
> learn and try out -  I couldn't get enough. There were definitely other 
> bikes and builds in there I am forgetting like a shogun touring bike etc. 
> and lots of BMX bikes. That was just my undergrad...20 years later. Oof - 
> not going to think too hard about it. But the enthusiasm hasn't stopped.
>
> I think it's super cool to have an option for such a versatile bike from 
> the get go and supportive parents for a *much* better starting point. I 
> absolutely believe that Leah's kid is in good hands. Who knows what'll 
> happen, but he's got a great bike to work with and obviously a lot of love 
> and support which is super great. 
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:46:56 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> This is going great you guys. I think it was clear after many days and 
>> many posts that the question is "what bike?", not does the kid even want 
>> one. It'd be super if we could stick with that. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:38:13 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be 
>>> serious and without condescension. The triple question marks indicate 
>>> reserve in asking the question and not exasperation or putdown; "Perhaps 
>>> you might consider ...?"
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:02 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>>>
 John,
 I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
 mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
 man?
 Doug

 On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:

> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>
> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the 
> *strength 
> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount 
> of attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>
> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you 
> don't like.
>
> John 
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Mackenzy Albright]

Admittedly, I had almost the exact opposite issue as a college student. I 
grew up without cyclists in my family, and think it's so rad that there are 
parents like Leah to give a good starting point of living a happily car 
free college life. 

I was messy messy messy in my hyperfocus niche interests (bikes). As an 
adolescent I got into bmx bikes. I had a very high end BMX I kept in my 
dorm room under my bunk for the first two years. I worked at a skatepark 
and rode with many professional friends. Eventually, a visiting friend 
"from the city" brought his IRO fixed gear. I was absolutely smitten. He 
taught me about fixed gear conversions - so I went to one on one bike 
studios in Minneapolis and Gene helped me pick out a beat Schwinn Letour in 
my size and parts I needed to convert it to fixed. 

Within the next few months - I befriended a local bike shop worker who 
talked me into buying a 54cm Surly steam roller frame (I am 6' 2" mind you) 
for nearly wholesale as it'd been sitting for ever a year. My IRO friend 
came back and took me down the biggest hill in town (sanfrancisco style) on 
that brakeless steamroller. Literally probably the stupidest day of my 
life. We continued on a 40+K ride in the country side to a waterfall and it 
blew my mind. My friend with the IRO was also into racing on a geared bike 
- and informed me on the magic of "geared bikes" 

I sold the steamroller and dropped all my savings on a Long haul Trucker. 
Except - except they all fit weird and I didn't like the lng top tube 
after a short period. So I traded it for Cross check. I despised the cross 
check frame even more - but somebody offered to trade a geared Karate 
Monkey for my Cross check. I rode the Karate Monkey for a while, but fell 
back in love with single speeds, so converted it to single speed and rode 
that a long time. To my detriment "Ride the Divide" came out. Mark Remier's 
first Generation Salsa Fargo was on display - dirt and all at the premier. 
Within the week I rode to Angry Catfish and picked up a Fargo in my size. I 
loved that bike. That concluded my undergradI wont even start on my 
bikes during my "Grad school years" 

I was quite..."promiscuous" in my bike building because "college" is for 
experimenting right? (I never drank or did drugs - most of my bike dealings 
were trade/second hand based being in QBP land) There was just so much to 
learn and try out -  I couldn't get enough. There were definitely other 
bikes and builds in there I am forgetting like a shogun touring bike etc. 
and lots of BMX bikes. That was just my undergrad...20 years later. Oof - 
not going to think too hard about it. But the enthusiasm hasn't stopped.

I think it's super cool to have an option for such a versatile bike from 
the get go and supportive parents for a *much* better starting point. I 
absolutely believe that Leah's kid is in good hands. Who knows what'll 
happen, but he's got a great bike to work with and obviously a lot of love 
and support which is super great. 

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:46:56 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> This is going great you guys. I think it was clear after many days and 
> many posts that the question is "what bike?", not does the kid even want 
> one. It'd be super if we could stick with that. 
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:38:13 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be serious 
>> and without condescension. The triple question marks indicate reserve in 
>> asking the question and not exasperation or putdown; "Perhaps you might 
>> consider ...?"
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:02 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
>>> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
>>> man?
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>>>
 Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.

 John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
 of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount 
 of attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.

 You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you 
 don't like.

 John 
 On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> John,
> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>
> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting 
> for him that you would like to gift him?
>
> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused 
> about the topic of the conversation?
>
> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
> imposing my choices on my son?
>


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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Leah Peterson]

John,Over the years I have found this forum to be extremely helpful. The willingness of members to answer elementary questions from someone just entering the bike world has been invaluable. I’ve always been appreciative, and I have made it a point to say so.But here on our forum, there also exists an undercurrent of condescension. Every now and again, seemingly out of the blue, someone will pitch a mean comment and change the conversation. It’s happened to me several times, and I’ll never get used to it. We can have 75 helpful posts offering experience and well thought-out opinions and then suddenly one person chimes in with a question that sounds very much like sarcasm. It’s part of the culture of this forum, and it’s unfortunate.John #1’s question could have been genuine, but if so it was poorly phrased, so I doubt it. John #2’s (yours) was out of line and can only be received as rude. I’ve lived long enough that when I hear “calm down” I know it’s usually a man saying it to a woman. If you doubt me, ask yourself if you’d have said these same words to Bill Lindsay. To the rest of you, thank you! I have had so much to think about, thanks to your excellent points and stories about your own experiences on college campuses. And that is all I have to say on the matter.LeahOn Aug 15, 2023, at 1:57 PM, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the strength of his desire for a bike at college could correlate to the amount of attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't like.John On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:John,Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for him that you would like to gift him?2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about the topic of the conversation?3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was imposing my choices on my son?If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate transportation.If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. LeahOn Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:LeahI might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at collegeJohn HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 



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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Joe Bernard]

This is going great you guys. I think it was clear after many days and many 
posts that the question is "what bike?", not does the kid even want one. 
It'd be super if we could stick with that. 

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:38:13 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be serious 
> and without condescension. The triple question marks indicate reserve in 
> asking the question and not exasperation or putdown; "Perhaps you might 
> consider ...?"
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:02 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>
>> John,
>> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
>> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
>> man?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>>>
>>> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
>>> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
>>> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>>>
>>> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
>>> like.
>>>
>>> John 
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 John,
 Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.

 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
 him that you would like to gift him?

 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused 
 about the topic of the conversation?

 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
 imposing my choices on my son?

>>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Johnny Alien]

Written communication can often come off the wrong way. The original 
question does come off a bit rough but might not have been intended that 
way. In addition I think the "take a deep breath and count to 10" comment 
comes off as very condescending (but hopefully wasn't intended that way). 
Just as easy to say "I think you may have taken that the wrong way".

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:38:13 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be serious 
> and without condescension. The triple question marks indicate reserve in 
> asking the question and not exasperation or putdown; "Perhaps you might 
> consider ...?"
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:02 PM Doug H.  wrote:
>
>> John,
>> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
>> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
>> man?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>>>
>>> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
>>> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
>>> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>>>
>>> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
>>> like.
>>>
>>> John 
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 John,
 Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.

 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
 him that you would like to gift him?

 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused 
 about the topic of the conversation?

 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
 imposing my choices on my son?

>>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, I have to agree with both Johns; the question seemed to be serious
and without condescension. The triple question marks indicate reserve in
asking the question and not exasperation or putdown; "Perhaps you might
consider ...?"

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 12:02 PM Doug H.  wrote:

> John,
> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question
> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really
> man?
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>>
>> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength
>> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of
>> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>>
>> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't
>> like.
>>
>> John
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>>>
>>> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for
>>> him that you would like to gift him?
>>>
>>> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about
>>> the topic of the conversation?
>>>
>>> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was
>>> imposing my choices on my son?
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Eric Daume]

I think many of us have had an experience where we cared much more about
the bike for a loved one than the loved one does. Maybe that’s where the
question was coming from.

Eric
Three kids, zero who care about bikes :(

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023, 'John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Doug, I was addressing Leah's response to John Hawrylak's question, not
> your posting.
>
> John
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:02:16 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> John,
>> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question
>> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really
>> man?
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>>>
>>> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength
>>> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of
>>> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>>>
>>> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't
>>> like.
>>>
>>> John
>>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
>>> wrote:
>>>
 John,
 Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.

 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for
 him that you would like to gift him?

 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused
 about the topic of the conversation?

 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was
 imposing my choices on my son?

 If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.

 If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman
 don’t have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate
 transportation.

 If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer.

 Leah

 On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW
 Owners Bunch  wrote:

 Leah


 I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college

 John Hawrylak
 Woodstown NJ

 On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding
 Ding! wrote:

> 
> 
> Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long
> time! But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the
> younger one on his “one-wheeler.”
>
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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Doug, I was addressing Leah's response to John Hawrylak's question, not 
your posting.

John


On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 11:02:16 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> John,
> I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
> mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
> man?
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:
>
>> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>>
>> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
>> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
>> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>>
>> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
>> like.
>>
>> John 
>> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John,
>>> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>>>
>>> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
>>> him that you would like to gift him?
>>>
>>> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about 
>>> the topic of the conversation?
>>>
>>> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
>>> imposing my choices on my son?
>>>
>>> If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.
>>>
>>> If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t 
>>> have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate 
>>> transportation.
>>>
>>> If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW 
>>> Owners Bunch  wrote:
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
>>>
>>> I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college
>>>
>>> John Hawrylak
>>> Woodstown NJ
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 
 
 Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long 
 time! But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
 younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/rlzGS4r3P9E/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Doug H.]

John,
I took the question exactly as Leah interpreted it. The triple question 
mark at the end of the question was pretty emphatic. Take a breath? Really 
man?
Doug

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 1:57:37 PM UTC-4 John Phillips wrote:

> Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.
>
> John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
> of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
> attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.
>
> You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
> like.
>
> John 
> On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> John,
>> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>>
>> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
>> him that you would like to gift him?
>>
>> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about 
>> the topic of the conversation?
>>
>> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
>> imposing my choices on my son?
>>
>> If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.
>>
>> If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t 
>> have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate 
>> transportation.
>>
>> If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 
>>
>> Leah
>>
>> On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
>> Bunch  wrote:
>>
>> Leah
>>
>>
>> I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! 
>>> But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
>>> younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/rlzGS4r3P9E/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c6498812-487c-469f-b8c1-51af6783f724n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

['John Phillips' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah, please take a breath and count to 10.

John's question wasn't rude, and was a fair question in that the *strength 
of his desire *for a bike at college *could* correlate to the amount of 
attention he would give to keeping the bike secure.

You did ask for people's opinions, so please just ignore those you don't 
like.

John 
On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 2:22:12 AM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> John,
> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>
> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
> him that you would like to gift him?
>
> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about 
> the topic of the conversation?
>
> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
> imposing my choices on my son?
>
> If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.
>
> If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t 
> have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate 
> transportation.
>
> If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 
>
> Leah
>
> On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote:
>
> Leah
>
>
> I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! 
>> But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
>> younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 
>>
> -- 
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> .
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Doug H.]

Leah,
It looks like the ole Betty Foy served you well during your sons' early 
years. Where is that bike now? I don't remember if you sold it or have it 
stashed away. And, doesn't time fly!?! We were looking at some old photos 
of my sons recently and reminiscing.
Doug

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 5:22:12 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> John,
> Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.
>
> 1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for 
> him that you would like to gift him?
>
> 2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about 
> the topic of the conversation?
>
> 3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was 
> imposing my choices on my son?
>
> If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.
>
> If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t 
> have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate 
> transportation.
>
> If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. 
>
> Leah
>
> On Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote:
>
> Leah
>
>
> I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> 
>> Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! 
>> But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
>> younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 
>>
> -- 
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Leah Peterson]

John,Text makes it hard to tell sometimes, so I suppose I’ll ask.1. Is your question asked because you have the perfect bike waiting for him that you would like to gift him?2. Is your question being asked because you are genuinely confused about the topic of the conversation?3. Or is your question posed so as to look down on me, as if I was imposing my choices on my son?If #1, no thank you, we have 2 good Clems to choose from.If #2, I would direct you to the beginning of the thread. Freshman don’t have cars at the campus we’re looking at, and one needs alternate transportation.If #3, I’ll not dignify your question with any answer. LeahOn Aug 14, 2023, at 9:52 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:LeahI might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at collegeJohn HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 



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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Leah

I might I missed it, but does your son want a bike at college

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 11:09:58 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> 
> 
> Wow, since the boys were in elementary school, Ryan, that’s a long time! 
> But yes, I started out in late 2012 with a Betty and was pulling the 
> younger one on his “one-wheeler.” 
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Ryan]

Not to put a damper on things...but those in academia employed as 
professors can probably wheel their bikes into their offices(if they;ve got 
room or make room),  a  privilege students don't enjoy unless they're grad 
students who may be lucky enough to share office space.

And one other thing to note is that your son might add an inch or so to 
that 6'1'' frame. It's so weird...I've been reading and enjoying your posts 
since those boys were in elementary school...wow! 

On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 12:46:28 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> These posts are so engaging. I have enjoyed reading all of them, and I see 
> your points and they are good ones. 
>
> I may send my son off with the 52 Clem as a test bike, but it really is 
> too small. My WORD, the big Clem L fits him so nicely. Still, I hate to 
> risk it right away before he really gets a lay of the land and sees where 
> the safe bike parking is located. Further complicating matters is that I 
> plan to get him a dyno wheelset and the 52 takes 650b and the big Clem 
> 700c. Not interchangeable, sigh. 
>
> I am most encouraged by those in academia who have reported they still 
> have their bikes after years of commuting with them. Bike thieves; there’s 
> gotta be a special place in hell for those…
> L
>
> On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 3:15:03 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> My take, in point form: 
>>
>> - Any bike is at risk of theft or vandalism in this situation, no matter 
>> how 'perfectly suited' to the job it is. 
>> - That said, the Clem L is definitely less attractive to thieves than a 
>> Surly, despite being better in our eyes. Surlys are much better known. 
>> - If you are comfortable with a real risk of losing it to theft, and want 
>> to see it live its life, I'd go for it
>> - If it's painful to think of it being stolen, I'd hold it back and buy a 
>> $300 single speed for its disposable nature
>>
>> On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 10:00:07 UTC-7 dajo...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty 
>>> of time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 
>>> 20+ years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall 
>>> seeing that nice of a bike on campus.
>>>
>>> David Jones 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
 college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
 buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
 up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
 doesn’t ride, sigh). 

 My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into 
 it. 
 I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
 the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is 
 fond 
 of saying… 

 Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide 
 if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle 
 into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, 
 dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to 
 the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
 after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
 like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
 in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test 
 rode 
 it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my 
 knees 
 don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and 
 it 
 looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 

 I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
 because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
 rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
 is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
 because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
 will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
 really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.

 I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that 
 would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it 
 could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
 through undergrad together.

 I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
 with a Clem? What do you have 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

These posts are so engaging. I have enjoyed reading all of them, and I see 
your points and they are good ones. 

I may send my son off with the 52 Clem as a test bike, but it really is too 
small. My WORD, the big Clem L fits him so nicely. Still, I hate to risk it 
right away before he really gets a lay of the land and sees where the safe 
bike parking is located. Further complicating matters is that I plan to get 
him a dyno wheelset and the 52 takes 650b and the big Clem 700c. Not 
interchangeable, sigh. 

I am most encouraged by those in academia who have reported they still have 
their bikes after years of commuting with them. Bike thieves; there’s gotta 
be a special place in hell for those…
L

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 3:15:03 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote:

> My take, in point form: 
>
> - Any bike is at risk of theft or vandalism in this situation, no matter 
> how 'perfectly suited' to the job it is. 
> - That said, the Clem L is definitely less attractive to thieves than a 
> Surly, despite being better in our eyes. Surlys are much better known. 
> - If you are comfortable with a real risk of losing it to theft, and want 
> to see it live its life, I'd go for it
> - If it's painful to think of it being stolen, I'd hold it back and buy a 
> $300 single speed for its disposable nature
>
> On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 10:00:07 UTC-7 dajo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty 
>> of time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 
>> 20+ years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall 
>> seeing that nice of a bike on campus.
>>
>> David Jones 
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
>>> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
>>> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
>>> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>>
>>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
>>> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. 
>>> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
>>> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond 
>>> of saying… 
>>>
>>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>>
>>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>>
>>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that 
>>> would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it 
>>> could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>>> through undergrad together.
>>>
>>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0d23bcf0-daea-486b-8c3c-86de9391c5cbn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Jason Fuller]

My take, in point form: 

- Any bike is at risk of theft or vandalism in this situation, no matter 
how 'perfectly suited' to the job it is. 
- That said, the Clem L is definitely less attractive to thieves than a 
Surly, despite being better in our eyes. Surlys are much better known. 
- If you are comfortable with a real risk of losing it to theft, and want 
to see it live its life, I'd go for it
- If it's painful to think of it being stolen, I'd hold it back and buy a 
$300 single speed for its disposable nature

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 10:00:07 UTC-7 dajo...@gmail.com wrote:

> Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty 
> of time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 
> 20+ years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall 
> seeing that nice of a bike on campus.
>
> David Jones 
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
>
>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
>> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
>> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
>> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>
>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
>> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
>> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
>> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
>> saying… 
>>
>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>
>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>
>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
>> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
>> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>> through undergrad together.
>>
>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>> Leah
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0d23bcf0-daea-486b-8c3c-86de9391c5cbn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[David Jones]

Let's make it 3 for 3.  Keep the new Clem at home.  There will be plenty of
time for him to enjoy it during college breaks, and post-college.  In 20+
years as a campus pastor at a Big 12 university, I don't ever recall seeing
that nice of a bike on campus.

David Jones


On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 9:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses,
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020,
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of
> saying…
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.”
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kaveh Askari]

I've ridden a Clem on a university campus in Michigan every day for several 
years. I've been working at colleges for 20 years, and this is my first 
non-beater that I lock up around campus. The risk has been worth the reward 
of making thousands of useful trips on such a dignified ride. 

That said, I lock it inside whenever I can during the day, and I almost 
never leave it out overnight. Like most universities, mine does have paid 
locking cages inside their parking garages. Those are totally safe, but 
they defeat the purpose of being able to zip around from one building to 
another (if you're on a big campus). 

Another thing to keep in mind: some campus bike racks are way safer than 
others. Most campuses have cameras everywhere. Maybe lock up in contained 
quads, with high visibility, where the traffic is only by foot or bike. 
It's good to avoid racks close to roads where someone can quickly hop out 
of a truck with an angle grinder or bolt cutters. 

--KA
 




 

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:48:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> What others have said
>
> BUT a Clem could go to college if...in an ideal world
>
> If he's living on-campus they're not going to fuss if he brings it inside 
> his room at night to avoid leaving it locked up outside and creating ample 
> opportrunity for theft...and maybe don't take the Clem bar-hopping
>
> If the college is car-free maybe they have some sort of infrastructure set 
> up for secure bike locking on campus...maybe there's some student-driven 
> bike valet system...or your son could find like-minded folks on-campus to 
> initiate something like that for secure lockup at the library or class 
> buildings. Where I live in Winnipeg, the University of Winnipeg even has 
> indoor locking facilities for a fee...but it's a downtown campus with a 
> small footprint; you can easily hoof it from class to class. A large state 
> campus, I imagine, not so much
>
> In the absence of things like this , I'm afraid , a stealth beater that's 
> actually fun to ride is the way to go
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:27:14 AM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. 
>> IF* your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike 
>> shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also 
>> oversaturated. 
>>
>> *It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving 
>> kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It 
>> was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had 
>> one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.
>>
>> Eric
>> Plain City, OH
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
>>> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
>>> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
>>> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>>
>>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
>>> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. 
>>> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
>>> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond 
>>> of saying… 
>>>
>>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>>
>>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>>
>>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Ted Durant]

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 3:14:34 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken 
seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike 
folks”. I


Be that as it may, the bike that was stolen from me in college was a 
Schwinn Typhoon. I'd rescued it from the tunnels (a nice feature at a 
college in MN) and put whitewalls and shiny chrome fenders on it.

Full disclosure, I think I forgot to lock it up that night.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA 

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Ryan]

Fortunately , Leah, you do have a year to think about this. I suspect, 
since you haven't definitely settled on which college your son is going to, 
a tour of the campuses is probably part of your plans. Once you settle on a 
college, I'm sure you'll visit it. When you're visiting maybe a trip to the 
student union center is in order where you may be able to suss out the 
local bike culture as these student centers address many aspects of student 
life outside of pure academia. It's hard to beat the Clem for its 
practicality. As others have said, the cost of   configuring a beater 
bought for a few hundred bucks with dynamos, fenders, carrying capacity, 
etc. can quickly add up. If his Clem is  insured (may need to buy a rider) 
, you do the pitlock thing, he can keep it in the dorm room , he's 
meticulous about locking it up and it's a bike-commuter friendly campus, 
maybe all will be well, if he really wants to take the Clem and is aware of 
the risk. Risk of theft goes up, of course, when it locked up for several 
hours after dark on or off-campus




On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 6:00:50 AM UTC-5 Jay LePree wrote:

> Hi Leah,
>
> I could not afford a car in graduate school at the University of 
> Wisconsin-Madison, so wound up with a Diamond back mountain bike my first 
> two years and then traded it in for a Specialized Triple Sirrus for my last 
> two years there.  I was OK with both bikes, but after having my saddle and 
> seatpost stolen on my Diamond back, I learned very quickly to install two 
> seat leashes.  My bikes were stored inside my apartment overnight, so I 
> overnight theft was not a concern.  I used a chain and a U-lock as that 
> often can frustrate theives as then need two tools to steal the bike.  I 
> would consider purchasing and installing Pitlock skewers to protect the 
> wheels.  I would be wary of mounting bags to the bike.  Those would be 
> easily stolen.  Baskets with torx nut hardware might be more theft proof.
>
> https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.php
>
> Jay LePree
> Demarest, NJ
> T LePree - 2020 ERAU - Commercial Pilot
> K. LePree 2023 Columbia U. - Financial Analyst
>
> That first walk past the high school, when all are away at school, will be 
> a shock to the system, but it is part of their lives and ours.  Milestones.
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:37:53 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:
>
>> The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a 
>> complete.
>> -W
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:00:16 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>>
>>> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as 
>>> they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the 
>>> Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play 
>>> anymore. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
 I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
 were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
 Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up 
 with 
 a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
 use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
 I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
 Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
 campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though 
 I 
 would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
 overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
 linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
 though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
 bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
 mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
 tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
 with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a 
 perfect 
 combo for campus riding.
 A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
 who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
 that's my 2¢.

 PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work

 On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>
> 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Jay LePree]

Hi Leah,

I could not afford a car in graduate school at the University of 
Wisconsin-Madison, so wound up with a Diamond back mountain bike my first 
two years and then traded it in for a Specialized Triple Sirrus for my last 
two years there.  I was OK with both bikes, but after having my saddle and 
seatpost stolen on my Diamond back, I learned very quickly to install two 
seat leashes.  My bikes were stored inside my apartment overnight, so I 
overnight theft was not a concern.  I used a chain and a U-lock as that 
often can frustrate theives as then need two tools to steal the bike.  I 
would consider purchasing and installing Pitlock skewers to protect the 
wheels.  I would be wary of mounting bags to the bike.  Those would be 
easily stolen.  Baskets with torx nut hardware might be more theft proof.

https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/pitlock.php

Jay LePree
Demarest, NJ
T LePree - 2020 ERAU - Commercial Pilot
K. LePree 2023 Columbia U. - Financial Analyst

That first walk past the high school, when all are away at school, will be 
a shock to the system, but it is part of their lives and ours.  Milestones.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 5:37:53 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

> The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a 
> complete.
> -W
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:00:16 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as 
>> they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the 
>> Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play 
>> anymore. 
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>>> linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>>> combo for campus riding.
>>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>>> that's my 2¢.
>>>
>>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
 reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
 bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
 locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
 undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…

 Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
 with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, 
 sees 
 beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
 details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
 that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
 the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
 the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
 destination. 

 The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
 about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
 prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
 send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
 nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes 
 all 
 these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 

 And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
 insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
 Leah

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Wesley]

The current best value from Surly is the Cross Check, at $1100 for a 
complete.
-W

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 1:00:16 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they 
> seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I 
> think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore. 
>
> Eric
>
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>> linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>> combo for campus riding.
>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>> that's my 2¢.
>>
>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>>
>>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
>>> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>>> destination. 
>>>
>>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
>>> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
>>> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
>>> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
>>> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all 
>>> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>>
>>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>>
 Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for 
 many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve 
 never 
 had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never 
 park 
 it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes 
 outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small 
 elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes 
 get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones 
 easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a 
 larger home break in.

 Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to 
 college as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear 
 (bike racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for 
 an excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.

 Neal Lerner
 Brookline MA

 On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a 
> college commuting bike. 
>
> I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[greenteadrinkers]

I'd have a tough time focusing on/in class knowing I had a Riv. locked up 
outside.

On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 4:14:34 PM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken 
> seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike 
> folks”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if my Gus is “an 
> old vintage bike”. Haha. Then I try to explain to them what it actually is 
> and their eyes just gloss over.
>
> Y’all are making me miss my old 1st generation Surly 1x1. I used it for 
> most of my bike polo “career”, which spanned from 2007 - 2012. It traveled 
> all over the Midwest with me and my fellow club mates. Man, that was 
> probably the sweetest, most dialed-in bike I’ve ever owned. I had it set up 
> with Motolites and a Paul dual-pull lever on the left side (so I could 
> swing a mallet with my right). Stopped on a dime, and accelerated like a 
> rocket. I had my friend Alex Meade (of Discord stem fame) who lived near me 
> at the time, make me a custom straight blade fork for super-tight, twitchy 
> turning… that bike absolutely slayed!
>
> I’m happy to say it’s still roaming my city as a daily commuter; I ended 
> up selling the f/f/hs to a friend of mine. I still see it occasionally and 
> have pangs of regret!
>
> On Aug 11, 2023, at 4:00 PM, Eric Daume  wrote:
>
> The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as 
> they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the 
> Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play 
> anymore. 
>
>
> Eric
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:
>
>> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I 
>> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a 
>> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 
>> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with 
>> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and 
>> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  
>> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a 
>> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around 
>> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I 
>> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an 
>> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with 
>> linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, 
>> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right 
>> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy 
>> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and 
>> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs 
>> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect 
>> combo for campus riding.
>> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area 
>> who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, 
>> that's my 2¢.
>>
>> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed 
>>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid 
>>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and 
>>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an 
>>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>>
>>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be 
>>> with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees 
>>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many 
>>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and 
>>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has 
>>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of 
>>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his 
>>> destination. 
>>>
>>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming 
>>> about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not 
>>> prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to 
>>> send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and 
>>> nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all 
>>> these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. 
>>>
>>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ 
>>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. 
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>>
 Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Brian Turner]

I agree with Mackenzie’s point about swoopy top tube bikes not being taken seriously by most folks - regardless of whether or not they are “bike folks”. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been asked if my Gus is “an old vintage bike”. Haha. Then I try to explain to them what it actually is and their eyes just gloss over.Y’all are making me miss my old 1st generation Surly 1x1. I used it for most of my bike polo “career”, which spanned from 2007 - 2012. It traveled all over the Midwest with me and my fellow club mates. Man, that was probably the sweetest, most dialed-in bike I’ve ever owned. I had it set up with Motolites and a Paul dual-pull lever on the left side (so I could swing a mallet with my right). Stopped on a dime, and accelerated like a rocket. I had my friend Alex Meade (of Discord stem fame) who lived near me at the time, make me a custom straight blade fork for super-tight, twitchy turning… that bike absolutely slayed!I’m happy to say it’s still roaming my city as a daily commuter; I ended up selling the f/f/hs to a friend of mine. I still see it occasionally and have pangs of regret!On Aug 11, 2023, at 4:00 PM, Eric Daume  wrote:The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore. EricOn Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.  I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube, though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect combo for campus riding.A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway, that's my 2¢.PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would workOn Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his destination. The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about, although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too. And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’ insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure. LeahOn Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Eric Daume]

The 1x1 isn’t made any more, and they hold their value really well as they
seem to be coming somewhat collectible. The replacement is the Lowside, I
think it’s about $890 for the frame set. Not really a value play anymore.

Eric

On Friday, August 11, 2023, George Schick  wrote:

> I'll chime in with yet another recommendation (would be my choice if I
> were going to be shipping a kid of to a campus in the near future):  a
> Surly 1x1. They're single speed frames, rather on the heavy side made from
> 4130 chro-moly tubing, powder coated for durability, and can be set up with
> a single-speed cog and chainring of your choice.  I currently own one and
> use it as my all around utility bike for running short haul errands, etc.
> I'm using a Bulletproof BMX crankset, 38-tooth Rocket chainring, and a
> Shimano 17-tooth SS freewheel for a 59" gear (perfect for riding around
> campus).  You can equip this bike with front and rear disc brakes, though I
> would not recommend it for campus use where it can get beat around on an
> overloaded bike rack and the discs bent. Instead I'd set it up with
> linear-pull F brakes. It comes with a threadless fork/steering tube,
> though, so you'd need the right length/angle threadless stem and the right
> bars to fit it (I'd recommend the VeloOrange Granola-Moose bar for easy
> mounting of the bar with a headlight.  You could pick any hub, rim, and
> tire combination you prefer.  Mine has Surly's semi-sealed cartridge hubs
> with 28mm rims and 60mm Schwalbe Big Apple balloon tires - again, a perfect
> combo for campus riding.
> A web search shows that there are several LBS's around the GR, MI area who
> are Surly dealers so you'd be within reasonable reach of one.  Anyway,
> that's my 2¢.
>
> PS: I have a 16T White Industries SS freewheel FS if that would work
>
> On Wednesday, August 9, 2023 at 6:47:48 AM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> Wow, this thread has generated a lot of response, and I’ve enjoyed
>> reading every post. It’s such a shame we have to go to extremes to avoid
>> bike theft - carrying heavy u-locks, being so choosy about parking and
>> locking, replacing parts, making the bike ugly, choosing to ride an
>> undesirable bike so we can preserve our desirable bike…
>>
>> Then there’s the other variable - how careful is the kid going to be with
>> the bike? Well, bikes are not precious to him. He likes his bike, sees
>> beauty and usefulness in it, but please do not bore him with too many
>> details about it. I don’t think he will worry about it like I would; and
>> that may lead to carelessness that gets his bike stolen. But also, he has
>> the Mr. Magoo-like quality of walking through life blissfully unaware of
>> the evil that lurks around every corner and arriving unscathed at his
>> destination.
>>
>> The campus in question does not have a lot of bike pirates roaming about,
>> although yes, I know they exist everywhere. But they are not prolific on
>> this particular campus. I’m still undecided about what bike to send, but
>> any bike that goes with him will get skewers that are locked and nuts that
>> prevent the theft of stem, saddle and seat post. Hexlox makes all these
>> products, if anyone is wondering. We’ll have good u-locks, too.
>>
>> And thanks to Jim for the mention of coverage under homeowners’
>> insurance. I’ll be looking into that for sure.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-4 nlerner wrote:
>>
>>> Similar to Mackenzy, I’ve been bike commuting to college campuses for
>>> many decades, the last 30 of which have been in the Boston area. I’ve never
>>> had a bike stolen likely because (1) I use a decent lock and (2) never park
>>> it outside overnight. I have colleagues who would never leave their bikes
>>> outside at all and schlep them up to their offices, navigating too small
>>> elevators and lots of doorways, but I’ve never seen the need. Sure, bikes
>>> get stolen around here all the time, but I’m convinced those are the ones
>>> easiest to steal, e.g., unlocked on a porch or in a backyard or part of a
>>> larger home break in.
>>>
>>> Now that doesn’t mean I necessarily endorse bringing the Clem to college
>>> as it will likely get thoroughly trashed from daily wear and tear (bike
>>> racks are not bike-friendly spaces). But I’m also always looking for an
>>> excuse to build up a commuter for colleagues.
>>>
>>> Neal Lerner
>>> Brookline MA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, August 8, 2023 at 5:07:52 PM UTC-4 Mackenzy Albright wrote:
>>>
 I'm amazed at the amount of discouragement of use of the Clem as a
 college commuting bike.

 I've worked at universities a good chunk of my life and commuted with
 high(er) end bikes and never had any issues. I like riding nice bikes -
 which is why I own them. I've parked in high foot traffic zones (in front
 of libraries, security, etc.) or bring my bike inside ( absolute in
 downtown Vancouver) when possible or parking my bike is in eyesight
 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Bill Gibson]

All things are things. They pass on, as we all do. The experience using the
thing is more important than the thing. He, and we, will learn from
whatever thing he rides. But, so long as we live, we will make another
thing. But to ride, that is the thing.
Bill Gibson
Tempe, Arizona, USA
My Photographs  :
https://billbgibson.myportfolio.com/ and on Behance:
https://www.behance.net/BillGibson 


On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 9:18 PM Kim H.  wrote:

> @Piaw -
> I lived on Sladky Avenue between Springer and Fordham Way to be more
> specific.
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:42:37 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm 2 long blocks from Cuesta Drive. I'm pretty sure if this happened in
>> MTV or Sunnyvale the police wouldn't be unresponsive. I have no idea why
>> Oakland and San Francisco don't consider a holdup at gunpoint worth getting
>> a search warrant over.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:17 PM Kim H.  wrote:
>>
>>> @Piaw -
>>> Oh my goodness ! How terrible that is being forced at gunpoint to hand
>>> over your bicycle and being left stranded. Unbelievable. I am glad I do not
>>> live there anymore. I moved away decades ago not too far from you, near
>>> Cuesta Drive in Mountain View, California.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 4:33:43 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>

>
> Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m
> talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to 
> find
> the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying
> an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend
> dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent.
>
>
 If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a
 heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the
 theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to
 have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire
 where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant
 for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of
 the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he
 looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we
 have to keep riding." (
 https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)

 I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike
 being stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well.
 Here in the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their
 bikes being forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded
 in the hills:
 https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kim H.]

@Piaw -
I lived on Sladky Avenue between Springer and Fordham Way to be more 
specific. 

Kim Hetzel.

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 8:42:37 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm 2 long blocks from Cuesta Drive. I'm pretty sure if this happened in 
> MTV or Sunnyvale the police wouldn't be unresponsive. I have no idea why 
> Oakland and San Francisco don't consider a holdup at gunpoint worth getting 
> a search warrant over.
>
> On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:17 PM Kim H.  wrote:
>
>> @Piaw -
>> Oh my goodness ! How terrible that is being forced at gunpoint to hand 
>> over your bicycle and being left stranded. Unbelievable. I am glad I do not 
>> live there anymore. I moved away decades ago not too far from you, near 
>> Cuesta Drive in Mountain View, California. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 4:33:43 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>

 Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m 
 talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to 
 find 
 the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying 
 an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend 
 dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent. 


>>> If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a 
>>> heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the 
>>> theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to 
>>> have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire 
>>> where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant 
>>> for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of 
>>> the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he 
>>> looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we 
>>> have to keep riding." (
>>> https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)
>>>
>>> I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike 
>>> being stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well. 
>>> Here in the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their 
>>> bikes being forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded 
>>> in the hills: 
>>> https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/
>>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[藍俊彪]

I'm 2 long blocks from Cuesta Drive. I'm pretty sure if this happened in
MTV or Sunnyvale the police wouldn't be unresponsive. I have no idea why
Oakland and San Francisco don't consider a holdup at gunpoint worth getting
a search warrant over.

On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 7:17 PM Kim H.  wrote:

> @Piaw -
> Oh my goodness ! How terrible that is being forced at gunpoint to hand
> over your bicycle and being left stranded. Unbelievable. I am glad I do not
> live there anymore. I moved away decades ago not too far from you, near
> Cuesta Drive in Mountain View, California.
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 4:33:43 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m
>>> talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find
>>> the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying
>>> an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend
>>> dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent.
>>>
>>>
>> If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a
>> heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the
>> theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to
>> have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire
>> where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant
>> for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of
>> the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he
>> looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we
>> have to keep riding." (
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)
>>
>> I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike being
>> stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well. Here in
>> the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their bikes being
>> forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded in the hills:
>> https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/
>>
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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kim H.]

@Piaw -
Oh my goodness ! How terrible that is being forced at gunpoint to hand over 
your bicycle and being left stranded. Unbelievable. I am glad I do not live 
there anymore. I moved away decades ago not too far from you, near Cuesta 
Drive in Mountain View, California. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 4:33:43 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>>
>> Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m 
>> talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find 
>> the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying 
>> an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend 
>> dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent. 
>>
>>
> If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a 
> heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the 
> theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to 
> have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire 
> where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant 
> for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of 
> the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he 
> looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we 
> have to keep riding." (
> https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)
>
> I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike being 
> stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well. Here in 
> the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their bikes being 
> forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded in the hills: 
> https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[藍俊彪]

>
>
>
> Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m
> talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find
> the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying
> an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend
> dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent.
>
>
If I had to carry 3 U-locks and thick cable locks, why not just ride a
heavy cheap used clunker? I remember someone once suggested the
theorum that all bicycles + locks weigh the same (the light bike had to
have a heavier lock). I once rode my Heron Touring bike in New Hampshire
where I met cycling author Marty Basch. He and I walked into a restaurant
for lunch, leaving our expedition-style loaded touring bikes in front of
the restaurant unlocked. After a 2 hour lunch we walked back out and he
looked at our bikes and said: "Darn. The bikes are still there. I guess we
have to keep riding." (
https://blog.piaw.net/2009/06/new-england-2000-bike-trip.html)

I take the approach that if I have to worry that much about my bike being
stolen, I should start to worry about my personal safety as well. Here in
the Bay Area there have been stories of bicyclists riding their bikes being
forced to hand over their bikes at gunpoint and left stranded in the hills:
https://www.berkeleyscanner.com/2023/06/23/crime/oakland-bikejacking-bike-robberies/

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Junes]

I agree with Christian’s general message. If the young man does end up taking the bike to college, make sure he locks it properly and redundantly. Whenever I lock a Rivendell to a rack, I lock the heck out of it. I’m talking three U locks and a thick cable lock. It’s a pain, you have to find the right kind of rack to accommodate all the locks, and it means carrying an extra weight. The additional few seconds a thief would have to spend dealing with the locks might be enough deterrent. Yes to Pitlocks, too. With a couple of extra keys. There are no guarantees, even with the crazy number of locks I use. I’m not sure how else to integrate the bikes into daily life, though. I had a bike stolen from my front lawn when I was a kid, and another one in college. It’s a horrible feeling no matter how cheap or fancy the bike is. The college experience taught me that you have to make it onerous for a thief, and you can’t ever be lax about it. Also, be sure to insure the bike! As a college student his property might still be covered under his parents’ homeowners policy. My college bike was. Best to check to make sure. JimOn Aug 7, 2023, at 18:09, christian poppell  wrote:  TL;DRI disagree... Clem College Cruiser FTW!Properly lock it up with multiple locks to a secure rackdon't leave it in one spot outside more than a day, less if the spot sees high trafficRevert it to stock/cheap(but cheerful) configurationmake it uGly to thieves, duct tape, spray paint (over the duct tape), stickers, used parts. understand the responsibility of caring for a bike on campus and the possibility that despite your sons best effort, it still could get stolenIf the thought of losing this specifc clem is too much, get a used or new Clem that you don't have an emotional attachment toHey Leah,I'll be a voice of dissent, I rode a precious to me bicycle through college (Gainesville, FL), locking it up both outside at a dorm room. on errands to the store, and outside the architecture building where I spent most of my time. Later, it spent time locked up outside the Ashby BART station in Berkeley while it was at work. Most of the bike theft that happened on campus was due to bicycles being left in one spot too long. A thief will grab a wheel or a saddle and from there, the bike begins losing parts left and right, like a dead whale at the bottom of the ocean. The other thefts that happened were due to poor locks or incorrect locking. I think if the Clem were dressed down to less expensive parts and became less pretty it could work. Pitlocks, ball bearings glued into allen heads, and hose clamps all make great deterrents as does tape, stickers, and other adornments (helps save the paint too). Multiple quality U locks properly used should be enough deterrent to a casual thief. The question to your son would be if that kind of responsibility is something he is up for? One of the great things about going away to school is being immersed in the culture and having the flexibility to do new things with new people. Worrying about your bike being stolen can put a damper on those experiences. At the end of the day, if someone recognises the bike and wants to take it they will; even quality locks are easy to cut with the right tools. The good news is that the giant Clem is a very "cool" bike to most people. One additional solution is to get a pre owned or new Clem that you have less history with, won't sting as much if it does get nicked. Grant and Co. designed the Clem to be a bike one could do everything on and not be precious about. There's a metaphor here about loving something and letting it go and the freedom that comes when we separate ourselves from the items that we own but this is getting long.ChristianPhoenix, AZPS: The only things that happened to the bike while outside was people putting garbage in my basket (cups, wrappers) and someone unraveled half my bar tape which was fine because it was time for new tape anyway.   On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 2:53:46 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:I went to college at Cal Berkeley. My first bike in the USA, a $50 walmart special, got stolen my first year while I was attending a lecture at Warren Hall. After that pain, I never had a bike stolen again, since I learned to lock the bike properly and bring it into my house/apartment overnight. I submit that the Clem should be the second bike your son rides in college. 



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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[christian poppell]

  TL;DR

   - I disagree... Clem College Cruiser FTW!
   - Properly lock it up with multiple locks to a secure rack
   - don't leave it in one spot outside more than a day, less if the spot 
   sees high traffic
   - Revert it to stock/cheap(but cheerful) configuration
   - make it uGly to thieves, duct tape, spray paint (over the duct tape), 
   stickers, used parts. 
   - understand the responsibility of caring for a bike on campus and the 
   possibility that despite your sons best effort, it still could get stolen
   - If the thought of losing this specifc clem is too much, get a used or 
   new Clem that you don't have an emotional attachment to


Hey Leah,

I'll be a voice of dissent, I rode a precious to me bicycle through college 
(Gainesville, FL), locking it up both outside at a dorm room. on errands to 
the store, and outside the architecture building where I spent most of my 
time. Later, it spent time locked up outside the Ashby BART station in 
Berkeley while it was at work. 

Most of the bike theft that happened on campus was due to bicycles being 
left in one spot too long. A thief will grab a wheel or a saddle and from 
there, the bike begins losing parts left and right, like a dead whale at 
the bottom of the ocean. The other thefts that happened were due to poor 
locks or incorrect locking. 

I think if the Clem were dressed down to less expensive parts and became 
less pretty it could work. Pitlocks, ball bearings glued into allen heads, 
and hose clamps all make great deterrents as does tape, stickers, and other 
adornments (helps save the paint too). Multiple quality U locks properly 
used should be enough deterrent to a casual thief. The question to your son 
would be if that kind of responsibility is something he is up for? One of 
the great things about going away to school is being immersed in the 
culture and having the flexibility to do new things with new people. 
Worrying about your bike being stolen can put a damper on those 
experiences. 

At the end of the day, if someone recognises the bike and wants to take it 
they will; even quality locks are easy to cut with the right tools. The 
good news is that the giant Clem is a very "cool" bike to most people. 

One additional solution is to get a pre owned or new Clem that you have 
less history with, won't sting as much if it does get nicked. Grant and Co. 
designed the Clem to be a bike one could do everything on and not be 
precious about. 

There's a metaphor here about loving something and letting it go and the 
freedom that comes when we separate ourselves from the items that we own 
but this is getting long.

Christian
Phoenix, AZ

PS: The only things that happened to the bike while outside was people 
putting garbage in my basket (cups, wrappers) and someone unraveled half my 
bar tape which was fine because it was time for new tape anyway.   

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 2:53:46 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I went to college at Cal Berkeley. My first bike in the USA, a $50 walmart 
> special, got stolen my first year while I was attending a lecture at Warren 
> Hall. After that pain, I never had a bike stolen again, since I learned to 
> lock the bike properly and bring it into my house/apartment overnight. I 
> submit that the Clem should be the second bike your son rides in college. 

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Piaw Na]

I went to college at Cal Berkeley. My first bike in the USA, a $50 walmart 
special, got stolen my first year while I was attending a lecture at Warren 
Hall. After that pain, I never had a bike stolen again, since I learned to 
lock the bike properly and bring it into my house/apartment overnight. I 
submit that the Clem should be the second bike your son rides in college. 

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Doug H.]

I've been following this thread/discussion and it really is a bit of a 
downer. Reality bites. Theft is rampant on college campuses I guess 
although I was a commuter student (car) for most of my college years so 
didn't witness or even hear about crime on campus back in the late '80s. I 
didn't live on campus. I'm sure I was just oblivious to it.

Based on this thread I would have to lean toward the 'don't take a 
relatively expensive bicycle to college' crowd. 
Doug

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 4:04:07 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I'll toss this out, FWIW, which may not be much, but: for a year or so 
> (sophomore/jr years) my daughter got around campus on a longboard, compact 
> enough to haul into the lecture hall, until her project responsibilities 
> with bulky kit made it impracticable. But books fit in backpacks and the 
> campus and town are/is relatively compact (NWU, Evanston, IL).
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I think Grant sent his older daughter to school in Minneapolis with a red 
Glorius. I think she made it halfway through college with it but it was 
finally stolen after she locked it to a chain link fence. 
https://bikepirates.livejournal.com/3520587.html?

I did email Grant and ask his opinion. And I really do wonder what that is, 
since he has also recently written about not being precious about a bike. 
No response yet. 

Yes, the time flies. You think you have a luxurious 18 years to love and 
enjoy them; they get more interesting and more fun every year. But suddenly 
they are 17 and threatening to graduate and exist out of eyesight, separate 
from you. He has been the best boy I ever could have dreamed up, and now 
he’s leaving and I can barely take it, so happy has he made me. I suppose 
this is why I want to send him off with the best of what I have to give. 
Even if it might be thief bait.

Crying in my coffee, starting now and ending sometime late 2024,
Leah

On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 3:40:04 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> The boy will think of his grandfather with nostalgia and love and think of 
> the bike with regret and bitterness because it was stolen within the first 
> 48 hours.
>
> *BUT!!!* I recall a Blahg post or posts where Grant described his 
> then-college-attending daughter's campus Clem. Why not ask Grant?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 1:55 AM Luke Hendrickson  
> wrote:
>
>> Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. 
>>
>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> DON'T DO IT !
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Patrick Moore]

I'll toss this out, FWIW, which may not be much, but: for a year or so
(sophomore/jr years) my daughter got around campus on a longboard, compact
enough to haul into the lecture hall, until her project responsibilities
with bulky kit made it impracticable. But books fit in backpacks and the
campus and town are/is relatively compact (NWU, Evanston, IL).

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Eric Daume]

A Clem with a dyno hub and a few accessories is a $2500 machine. That’s
pretty expensive by most any standard.

Eric

On Monday, August 7, 2023, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I'm with Max on this. It's a good bike designed to be used as a
> commuter/shopper/cruiser, and not so maddeningly expensive that it can't be
> replaced* if need be.
>
> *Yes I realize this is relative and a Clem isn't cheap by 'Walmart bike'
> standards. I'm talking in terms I can relate to, i.e., my custom would be a
> huge expense to replace if lost, a Clem would be a bummer but not end of
> the world. YRMV.
>
> Joe Bernard
>
>
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 9:32:18 AM UTC-7 Max S wrote:
>
>> When I was a kid, I had a Specialized Ascent (?) MTB stolen from an
>> apartment complex parking "garage". I had bought that bike with my paper
>> route & other kid job money, so it really hurt! In grad school, I also had
>> an XT seatpost & Ti Flite saddle stolen from my MB2 parked in front of a
>> campus building at 8 am in the morning. In the first case, the thief
>> snipped through a simple cable. In the second case, the thief used the seat
>> quick release. These experiences taught me to use better locks and to
>> replace QRs with bolts.
>>
>> I've owned decent bikes in college and grad school, and I have worked on
>> a college campus for nearly two decades, and have parked my bike on campus.
>> When I did use my nice MTB in college, I'd take off the front wheel and
>> lock it together with the frame and rear wheel to a post. When I ride my
>> nice bike to campus now, I protect my Brooks saddle and Nitto post and Phil
>> Wood wheels with some security bolts, and use a good lock.
>>
>> But I also don't park my bike outside overnight, and I don't ride around
>> in the slush much, without cleaning the bike after the ride.
>>
>> So, I think a lot is going to depend on the kid and their particular
>> living situation, degree of awareness, and the kinds of activities they get
>> up to in college... What if they want to ride dirt roads and coffeeneur on
>> Wednesday mornings with the local bikies, instead of partying late at night
>> and going to football games? What if they want to ride down to the farmers
>> market for fresh veggies instead of eating crappy pizza 7 days a week, or
>> hit up the handmade ice cream shop downtown after a day of studying for
>> finals?.. Wouldn't it be nice to have a good bike on hand that can carry
>> some apples and books and have lights for the way back when it gets dark?
>> These bikes are meant to be used and are designed well for that.
>>
>> - Max "if it ain't got disc brakes, not many thieves will want it" in A2
>>
>> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 11:18:19 AM UTC-4 rus...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm currently building a bike for a good friend's son who is going off
>>> to college. It's a mid-1990s Mercian. Its going to Boston. I'm having
>>> second thoughts and thinking of just giving him the cash and telling him to
>>> buy a decent enough beater off of the local Craigslist, and having a LBS
>>> replace the chain and giving it a maintenance once over. Currently, I've
>>> installed pit locks, replacing the skewers and seat post bolt. I've also
>>> install Ezy MKS pedals that he can remove between classes and carry in his
>>> daypack. All parts are used, low to mid range and do not match. The locks
>>> and chain will be Kryptonite's New York lock standard. Heavy, yes, but
>>> probably the best available. these locks will at least frustrate would be
>>> thieves. I'm hoping that he'll be able to keep it in his dorm with him
>>> overnight.
>>>
>>> Russell Duncan
>>> Saratoga, WY
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:34:18 PM UTC-6 Ryan wrote:
>>>
 One thing, Leah...and believe me ,no offense meant, but I know your
 penchant for pretty things If that bike goes to college, you might want
 to dial down the bling. Just sayin'. In this wicked world, it's stressful
 owning nice things. Your son SHOULD be able to ride his lovely Clem to
 college, but I would just hate to think of it being stolen  for both your
 sakes. Especially given the history of the bikeso I'm leaning into the
 nice but understated beater more and more...worked for me when I was still
 commuting before I retired. My beater was the old battle-scarred, but still
 elegant PX-10

 On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:36:41 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:

> This is really tough.  A lot has to do with where he is going and how
> much he will be using the bike.  Someone above said to get the lay of the
> land before deciding.  I kept my bike vertical in my dorm room, but it was
> outside and locked up when I went to work or class; even a long bike like
> his doesn't need to take up that much room (or keep it behind the bed).
> Johnny above said that the Clem L will be too long for bus racks.  I can
> attest that my 55cm Platypus is too long for bus racks and Amtrak, if he
> needs those 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Patrick Moore]

The boy will think of his grandfather with nostalgia and love and think of
the bike with regret and bitterness because it was stolen within the first
48 hours.

*BUT!!!* I recall a Blahg post or posts where Grant described his
then-college-attending daughter's campus Clem. Why not ask Grant?



On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 1:55 AM Luke Hendrickson 
wrote:

> Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him.
>
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> DON'T DO IT !
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Patrick Moore]

It's fast, isn't it? I recall your bike-trains to school. My baby daughter
turned 22 in June -- I told an acquaintance at church yesterday carrying
his just-churched newborn girl that in 20 years he will still be
counseling, encouraging, guiding, correcting, and paying for the child.

A Clem at college: I did some desultory research about bikes at
Northwestern (daughter) and UMich Ann Arbor (boyfriend) and in each case
theft is a real problem. Me, I'd not risk a nice Rivendell outside at even
a good university.

Back in ~2000 when I was a baby-faced 45-year-old MBA student at UNM I
commuted on a beater (*nice beater!*) fixed gear -- 1966 Bertin World
Champion or somesuch -- with decent but still entirely unfashionable wheels
and parts, but this was just before the fixie fad and the bike was weird
enough and the frame scratched and scuffed enough that no one bothered it
when locked with a Kryptonite lock. Also, I was a day student and left my
bike on the racks for only a few hours at a time in daylight.

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 8:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses,
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020,
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of
> saying…
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.”
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Leah Peterson]

Lots of good points were made here, and I’m grateful you took the time, All. We still have a year left with our son, and the Clem will hopefully get lots of use here, for now. One of the Riv Riders on this forum is a professor at our university of choice (no, we aren’t certain my son is going there yet) and he gives some good marks regarding bike culture and theft there. So, lots to think about.Meanwhile, we’re prettying the bike up with some colorful parts and planning an adventure or two with it.Thanks again!LeahOn Aug 6, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Ryan  wrote:What others have saidBUT a Clem could go to college if...in an ideal worldIf he's living on-campus they're not going to fuss if he brings it inside his room at night to avoid leaving it locked up outside and creating ample opportrunity for theft...and maybe don't take the Clem bar-hoppingIf the college is car-free maybe they have some sort of infrastructure set up for secure bike locking on campus...maybe there's some student-driven bike valet system...or your son could find like-minded folks on-campus to initiate something like that for secure lockup at the library or class buildings. Where I live in Winnipeg, the University of Winnipeg even has indoor locking facilities for a fee...but it's a downtown campus with a small footprint; you can easily hoof it from class to class. A large state campus, I imagine, not so muchIn the absence of things like this , I'm afraid , a stealth beater that's actually fun to ride is the way to goOn Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:27:14 AM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. IF* your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also oversaturated. *It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.EricPlain City, OHOn Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  wrote:It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey through undergrad together.I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…Leah



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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Ryan]

What others have said

BUT a Clem could go to college if...in an ideal world

If he's living on-campus they're not going to fuss if he brings it inside 
his room at night to avoid leaving it locked up outside and creating ample 
opportrunity for theft...and maybe don't take the Clem bar-hopping

If the college is car-free maybe they have some sort of infrastructure set 
up for secure bike locking on campus...maybe there's some student-driven 
bike valet system...or your son could find like-minded folks on-campus to 
initiate something like that for secure lockup at the library or class 
buildings. Where I live in Winnipeg, the University of Winnipeg even has 
indoor locking facilities for a fee...but it's a downtown campus with a 
small footprint; you can easily hoof it from class to class. A large state 
campus, I imagine, not so much

In the absence of things like this , I'm afraid , a stealth beater that's 
actually fun to ride is the way to go

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 11:27:14 AM UTC-5 Eric Daume wrote:

> I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. IF* 
> your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike 
> shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also 
> oversaturated. 
>
> *It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving 
> kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It 
> was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had 
> one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.
>
> Eric
> Plain City, OH
>
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
>> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
>> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
>> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>
>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
>> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
>> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
>> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
>> saying… 
>>
>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>
>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>
>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
>> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
>> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>> through undergrad together.
>>
>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>> Leah
>>
>> -- 
>>
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0d23bcf0-daea-486b-8c3c-86de9391c5cbn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Eric Daume]

I'm going to join the majority and say don't send the Clem to college. IF*
your boy needs a bike at school, buy a cheap hybrid, new or used. Bike
shops are desperate to sell anything right now, and the used market is also
oversaturated.

*It's been a long time since I was at college, but even as a bike loving
kid, I didn't ride my bike to classes. Too much hassle, too much risk. It
was easier to navigate crowded campus paths by walking, even though I had
one or two bikes tucked into my tiny dorm room.

Eric
Plain City, OH

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023 at 10:56 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses,
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020,
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of
> saying…
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.”
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Mathias Steiner]

I'm with the majority here: don't do it. What's the upside? You didn't say 
what his major is, but if it's anything that requires his full attention, 
the bike is for getting around, not primarily enjoyment. If it won't 
require that, why go at all?

This suggestion is valid:
>> I've had to use all sorts of creativity for keeping them inside 
but that's like having another job, especially if it isn't a dry climate. 
Wet bike indoors = no fun. Ask me how I know.

When our daughter went to college, way back in 2017, I got her a Trek 830 
in the usual condition and hung fenders on it and oiled the chain. Problem 
solved. Add a U-lock, and miracle of miracles, she still has it and it 
stayed with us when she moved out. For her birthday this year, I spruced it 
up, got Schwalbe Marathons and built a dyno front wheel for it, and now she 
locks it up in her apartment carport. Four weeks later, some yatz stole the 
saddle and post. Not thinking, I had left the quick release on, b/c who 
would want a cheap take-off saddle?e. That's when I remembered we live in a 
college town, too ;)

With the COVID bike boom over and cheap mountain bikes everywhere, I don't 
see the upside of taking a $2k+ bike to college. Let him do the minimal 
wrenching required to get the bike in fighting shape. Taking his  late 
Grandpa's bike doesn't make sense to me -- he'll want to hold on to that 
for life, no? 

cheers -mathias
On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 9:50:40 AM UTC-4 Mike Davis wrote:

> I've spent over 30 years on college campuses and 20 of those with an 
> Atlantis. If I ride to work, it stays in my office until I leave. I have 
> seen literally hundreds of bikes stripped and stolen. If you can't keep it 
> indoors,my advice is a 80-90s steel MTB frame that fits. 
>
> On Sun, Aug 6, 2023, 9:35 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
>> I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus 
>> transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work 
>> with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't 
>> get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really 
>> good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!! 
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:08:30 AM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:
>>
>>> I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before 
>>> making a decision.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:53:46 AM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>>
 Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. 

 On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> DON'T DO IT !
>
> I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. 
> Save the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to 
> thoroughly appreciate it, as a graduation present.  
>
> Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college 
> setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get 
> stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving 
> yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  
>
> Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well 
> with the utmost care. 
>
> *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is 
> nearly 80" long.* 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
>> I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably 
>> depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college 
>> campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived 
>> college 
>> campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all 
>> sorts 
>> of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended 
>> up 
>> under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living 
>> room 
>> in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving 
>> them 
>> locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes 
>> that 
>> would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually 
>> use 
>> two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives 
>> will 
>> go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables 
>> instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know 
>> several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many 
>> years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. 
>> And 
>> if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting 
>> around.
>>
>> Josiah Anderson
>> Missoula, MT
>>
>> Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>>> It nearly kills 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Jay Lonner]

Another consideration is the climate where your son will be attending college. Road salt is a good way to trash a bike, or at least the drivetrain. It happened to my XO-1 after my first winter in Wisconsin — after that I road a sacrificial beater.My oldest daughter went to college in sunny LA and I bought her a used Trek that lasted for a few years before it got stolen. There’s also an argument to be made that we get too hung up on attachment to material things. If you can embrace the mindset that it’s just a bike, and that bikes are meant to be ridden and can always be replaced, then that renders all of the above moot. Jay LonnerBellingham, WASent from my Atari 400On Aug 6, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Mike Davis  wrote:I've spent over 30 years on college campuses and 20 of those with an Atlantis. If I ride to work, it stays in my office until I leave. I have seen literally hundreds of bikes stripped and stolen. If you can't keep it indoors,my advice is a 80-90s steel MTB frame that fits. On Sun, Aug 6, 2023, 9:35 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!! On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:08:30 AM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before making a decision.On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:53:46 AM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:DON'T DO IT !I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly appreciate it, as a graduation present.  Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well with the utmost care. *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is nearly 80" long.* Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.Josiah AndersonMissoula, MTLe sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  a écrit :It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Mike Davis]

I've spent over 30 years on college campuses and 20 of those with an
Atlantis. If I ride to work, it stays in my office until I leave. I have
seen literally hundreds of bikes stripped and stolen. If you can't keep it
indoors,my advice is a 80-90s steel MTB frame that fits.

On Sun, Aug 6, 2023, 9:35 AM Johnny Alien  wrote:

> I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus
> transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work
> with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't
> get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really
> good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!!
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:08:30 AM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:
>
>> I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before
>> making a decision.
>>
>> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:53:46 AM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>>
>>> Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 DON'T DO IT !

 I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post.
 Save the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to
 thoroughly appreciate it, as a graduation present.

 Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college
 setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get
 stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving
 yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.

 Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well
 with the utmost care.

 *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is
 nearly 80" long.*

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA.

 On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably
> depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college
> campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college
> campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all 
> sorts
> of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up
> under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living 
> room
> in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them
> locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes 
> that
> would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use
> two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will
> go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables
> instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know
> several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many
> years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And
> if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula, MT
>
> Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to
>> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that 
>> leaves
>> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have 
>> grown
>> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
>> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>>
>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in
>> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into 
>> it.
>> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if
>> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is 
>> fond
>> of saying…
>>
>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide
>> if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle
>> into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new 
>> wheels,
>> dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed 
>> to
>> the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. 
>> But
>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test 
>> rode
>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my 
>> knees
>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and 
>> it
>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on 
>> it.”

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Richard Rose]

First, what an awesome story. What a lucky & no doubt deserving young man. And oh, what a beautiful big Clem. That said & having started my cycling life @ University in the ‘70’s, I would take something like this to college.Klunker Bikes - BMX / Beach Cruiser Inspired Machinestatebicycle.comSent from my iPhoneOn Aug 6, 2023, at 9:35 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!! On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:08:30 AM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before making a decision.On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:53:46 AM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:DON'T DO IT !I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly appreciate it, as a graduation present.  Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well with the utmost care. *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is nearly 80" long.* Kim HetzelYelm, WA. On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.Josiah AndersonMissoula, MTLe sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  a écrit :It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But as of now, he 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Johnny Alien]

I know nothing about college theft BUT if he is relying on bus 
transportation as well I am 99.9% positive that a Clem that size won't work 
with their racks. If thats the case then more often than not the bike won't 
get used. Side note...judging by photos the 59 Clem looks like a really 
good fit. Side, side note...congrats to both you and your kid!! 

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 8:08:30 AM UTC-4 Bill Schairer wrote:

> I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before 
> making a decision.
>
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:53:46 AM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:
>
>> Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. 
>>
>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> DON'T DO IT !
>>>
>>> I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save 
>>> the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly 
>>> appreciate it, as a graduation present.  
>>>
>>> Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college 
>>> setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get 
>>> stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving 
>>> yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  
>>>
>>> Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well 
>>> with the utmost care. 
>>>
>>> *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is 
>>> nearly 80" long.* 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>>>
 I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably 
 depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college 
 campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college 
 campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all 
 sorts 
 of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up 
 under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living 
 room 
 in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them 
 locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes 
 that 
 would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use 
 two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will 
 go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables 
 instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know 
 several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many 
 years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And 
 if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.

 Josiah Anderson
 Missoula, MT

 Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
 jonasa...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that 
> leaves 
> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have 
> grown 
> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into 
> it. 
> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is 
> fond 
> of saying… 
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide 
> if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle 
> into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new 
> wheels, 
> dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed 
> to 
> the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. 
> But 
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test 
> rode 
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my 
> knees 
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and 
> it 
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on 
> it.” 
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike 
> life 
> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
> because the kid has never remembered to 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Bill Schairer]

I'll take the middle ground.  Let him get the lay of the land before making 
a decision.

On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 12:53:46 AM UTC-7 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. 
>
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> DON'T DO IT !
>>
>> I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save 
>> the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly 
>> appreciate it, as a graduation present.  
>>
>> Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college 
>> setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get 
>> stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving 
>> yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  
>>
>> Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well with 
>> the utmost care. 
>>
>> *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is nearly 
>> 80" long.* 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>>
>>> I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably 
>>> depends on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college 
>>> campus if he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college 
>>> campus life at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts 
>>> of creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up 
>>> under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room 
>>> in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them 
>>> locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that 
>>> would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use 
>>> two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will 
>>> go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables 
>>> instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know 
>>> several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many 
>>> years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And 
>>> if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.
>>>
>>> Josiah Anderson
>>> Missoula, MT
>>>
>>> Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>>
 It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
 college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
 buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
 up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
 doesn’t ride, sigh). 

 My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into 
 it. 
 I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
 the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is 
 fond 
 of saying… 

 Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide 
 if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle 
 into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, 
 dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to 
 the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
 after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
 like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
 in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test 
 rode 
 it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my 
 knees 
 don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and 
 it 
 looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 

 I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
 because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
 rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
 is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
 because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
 will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
 really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.

 I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that 
 would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it 
 could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
 through undergrad together.

 I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Luke Hendrickson]

Do it!!! What a way for him to think of your father and remember him. 

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 10:56:15 PM UTC-7 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> DON'T DO IT !
>
> I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save 
> the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly 
> appreciate it, as a graduation present.  
>
> Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college 
> setting. Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get 
> stolen, you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving 
> yourself for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  
>
> Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well with 
> the utmost care. 
>
> *The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is nearly 
> 80" long.* 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
>> I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably depends 
>> on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college campus if 
>> he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college campus life 
>> at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts of 
>> creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up 
>> under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room 
>> in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them 
>> locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that 
>> would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use 
>> two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will 
>> go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables 
>> instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know 
>> several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many 
>> years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And 
>> if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.
>>
>> Josiah Anderson
>> Missoula, MT
>>
>> Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>
>>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to 
>>> college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves 
>>> buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown 
>>> up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>>
>>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 
>>> 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. 
>>> I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if 
>>> the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond 
>>> of saying… 
>>>
>>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>>
>>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>>
>>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that 
>>> would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it 
>>> could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>>> through undergrad together.
>>>
>>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>>> Leah
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Kim H.]

DON'T DO IT !

I am collectively in the same thought as the others before my post. Save 
the Clem Smith Jr. "L"  for after his college years for him to thoroughly 
appreciate it, as a graduation present.  

Yes, the likelihood of it getting stolen is very high in a college setting. 
Buy him a second hand bicycle to ride to college. If it does get stolen, 
you will be heart-broken and have a very difficult time forgiving yourself 
for allowing him to ride the Clem to college.  

Rivendell bicycles are very special and their owners treat them well with 
the utmost care. 

*The Clem will not fit on the bicycle rack of a transit bus. It is nearly 
80" long.* 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 9:23:44 PM UTC-7 Josiah Anderson wrote:

> I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably depends 
> on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college campus if 
> he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college campus life 
> at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts of 
> creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up 
> under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room 
> in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them 
> locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that 
> would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use 
> two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will 
> go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables 
> instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know 
> several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many 
> years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And 
> if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula, MT
>
> Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> a écrit :
>
>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
>> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
>> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
>> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>
>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
>> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
>> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
>> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
>> saying… 
>>
>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
>> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>
>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, 
>> because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike 
>> rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life 
>> is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno 
>> because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I 
>> will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 
>> takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he 
>> really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>
>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
>> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
>> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>> through undergrad together.
>>
>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
>> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>> Leah
>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0d23bcf0-daea-486b-8c3c-86de9391c5cbn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Josiah Anderson]

I'm going to go against others' strong opinions here. It probably depends
on where exactly he's going, but a Riv can be fine on a college campus if
he's careful. My Crust and Rivendell have both survived college campus life
at the University of Montana with me. I've had to use all sorts of
creativity for keeping them inside in Montana winters; they've ended up
under my bed, hanging in a closet, in the garage at work, in my living room
in the house I live in now, and the list goes on and on. When leaving them
locked up, my thinking is that they don't look like fancy modern bikes that
would be attractive to theives, and if they are locked well (I usually use
two u-locks if leaving for more than a couple hours) then the theives will
go for the abundance of basic modern mountain bikes locked with cables
instead. It's worked well for me for the past three years, and I know
several others who have ridden nice bikes on college campuses for many
years. Lock it up well, don't completely ignore it and it'll be fine. And
if it's not, then at least it was being loved and not just sitting around.

Josiah Anderson
Missoula, MT

Le sam. 5 août 2023 à 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
jonasandle...@gmail.com> a écrit :

> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses,
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020,
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of
> saying…
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.”
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Matthew Williams]

Don’t do it!

The college towns in which I’ve lived—and currently live—have a terrible 
problem with bike theft. I frequently see cut locks and stripped frames in the 
racks outside the dorms, apartment complexes, and university villages, and 
certain streets in this college town are littered with sad piles of 
disassembled frames, wheels, and miscellaneous parts.

Get a beater bike he won’t have to worry about when he locks it up outdoors. My 
college beater bike got me around campus even though it was badly neglected: I 
nad neither the time nor the money to spend on it . . . but I never had to 
worry about it being stolen.

He shouldn’t have to worry about his heirloom Clem, and he’ll be heartbroken 
when it’s stolen. Keep it safe in the garage, and save it for when he 
graduates. 



> On Aug 5, 2023, at 8:18 PM, Curtis McKenzie  wrote:
> 
> Our children both had their bicycles stolen.  One child had two bicycles 
> taken.  They were hurt even though the bicycles were "beater" bicycles as 
> they liked the cheap bicycles.
> Save the Clem for when the child is at home and so he will come home to ride 
> the Clem.
> 
> The child will be expanding their universe greatly during the first year of 
> college.  Save them a bit of responsibility by sending in the "beater" at 
> least for the first year.
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Curtis
> One outta Grad School
> One a third year Medical Student
> 
> On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 8:05 PM  > wrote:
>> Don’t do it. I used to work on a college campus and the reality is, bikes 
>> are stolen like crazy, campuses are targeted by bike thieves, college kids 
>> are busy and forgetful and all it takes is one careless lockup and it’s (or 
>> parts of it’s)  gone. 
>> I don’t believe there’s any way to keep a nice bike like a Clem safe or 
>> intact on a college campus.
>> Get a big steel 90’s MTB and put a Sunlite fake Albatross on it. 
>> Just my .02
>> Congratulations to you for guiding your son towards the next phase of his 
>> life! 
>> 
>>> On Aug 5, 2023, at 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
>>> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
>>> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
>>> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
>>> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>>> 
>>> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
>>> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
>>> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
>>> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
>>> saying… 
>>> 
>>> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he 
>>> wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
>>> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
>>> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
>>> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
>>> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
>>> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
>>> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
>>> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
>>> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
>>> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>>> 
>>> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because 
>>> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and 
>>> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally 
>>> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the 
>>> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep 
>>> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I 
>>> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But 
>>> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>>> 
>>> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
>>> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
>>> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
>>> through undergrad together.
>>> 
>>> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college with 
>>> a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
>>> Leah
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Curtis McKenzie]

Our children both had their bicycles stolen.  One child had two bicycles
taken.  They were hurt even though the bicycles were "beater" bicycles as
they liked the cheap bicycles.
Save the Clem for when the child is at home and so he will come home to
ride the Clem.

The child will be expanding their universe greatly during the first year of
college.  Save them a bit of responsibility by sending in the "beater" at
least for the first year.

Peace,

Curtis
One outta Grad School
One a third year Medical Student

On Sat, Aug 5, 2023, 8:05 PM  wrote:

> Don’t do it. I used to work on a college campus and the reality is, bikes
> are stolen like crazy, campuses are targeted by bike thieves, college kids
> are busy and forgetful and all it takes is one careless lockup and it’s (or
> parts of it’s)  gone.
> I don’t believe there’s any way to keep a nice bike like a Clem safe or
> intact on a college campus.
> Get a big steel 90’s MTB and put a Sunlite fake Albatross on it.
> Just my .02
> Congratulations to you for guiding your son towards the next phase of his
> life!
>
> On Aug 5, 2023, at 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasandle...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses,
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who
> doesn’t ride, sigh).
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020,
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of
> saying…
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe,
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.”
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0d23bcf0-daea-486b-8c3c-86de9391c5cbn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[Sarah Carlson]

Such a beautiful bike and kind of lovely to see him on his grandpa's frame. 
Looks like it fits him really well. I have no good insight into this, other 
than it would be really sad to see that bike turn into a "garage queen" 
when he looks so natural on it. Is there room for him to stash this 
gorgeous bike for pleasure riding and also keep a beater for all the 
student activities? 

On Saturday, August 5, 2023 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-7 Lucky wrote:

> Don’t do it. I used to work on a college campus and the reality is, bikes 
> are stolen like crazy, campuses are targeted by bike thieves, college kids 
> are busy and forgetful and all it takes is one careless lockup and it’s (or 
> parts of it’s)  gone. 
> I don’t believe there’s any way to keep a nice bike like a Clem safe or 
> intact on a college campus.
> Get a big steel 90’s MTB and put a Sunlite fake Albatross on it. 
> Just my .02
> Congratulations to you for guiding your son towards the next phase of his 
> life! 
>
> On Aug 5, 2023, at 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  
> wrote:
>
> It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college 
> in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, 
> bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up 
> riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who 
> doesn’t ride, sigh). 
>
>
> My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, 
> and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I 
> lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the 
> bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of 
> saying… 
>
> Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if 
> he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into 
> this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno 
> and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the 
> idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But 
> after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to 
> like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, 
> in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode 
> it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees 
> don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it 
> looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” 
>
> I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because 
> it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and 
> I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally 
> unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the 
> kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep 
> at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I 
> don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But 
> as of now, he wants his new bike.
>
> I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would 
> be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could 
> be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey 
> through undergrad together.
>
> I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college 
> with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…
> Leah
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] A College Clem

[luckyturnip]

Don’t do it. I used to work on a college campus and the reality is, bikes are stolen like crazy, campuses are targeted by bike thieves, college kids are busy and forgetful and all it takes is one careless lockup and it’s (or parts of it’s)  gone. I don’t believe there’s any way to keep a nice bike like a Clem safe or intact on a college campus.Get a big steel 90’s MTB and put a Sunlite fake Albatross on it. Just my .02Congratulations to you for guiding your son towards the next phase of his life! On Aug 5, 2023, at 19:56, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!  wrote:It nearly kills me to say it, but my older son will be heading to college in a year. Freshman aren’t to bring cars to campus, so that leaves buses, bikes, and your own two feet for transportation. My boys have grown up riding Clem Hs; this son rides a 52 cm cast-off from my husband (who doesn’t ride, sigh). My 6’3” Dad had a blue 59 cm Clem on order when he died suddenly in 2020, and his blue Clem has sat, boxed, waiting for my boy to grow into it. I lugged the gargantuan box up from the basement last week to see how if the bike would fit. “Now that I’ve obtained optimal height,” my son is fond of saying… Anyway, he’s 6’1” now (likely still growing) and I need him to decide if he wants to stick with his old Clem H (that he was fond of) or settle into this Clem L. Because whichever bike he chooses is getting new wheels, dyno and fenders and going to college with him. At first he was opposed to the idea of a new Clem; he liked his old Clem, thought it looked cool. But after the - as he calls it - Big Bike was assembled, he really began to like it. “It looks elegant,” he said. It really does, all long and lithe, in blue and silver. He put his saddle and bags on the bike and we test rode it tonight. He said, “I am really liking the Big Bike. I like that my knees don’t have anything to hit (geez, were his knees hitting his bars?!) and it looks elegant. It feels more at home now that I have my old saddle on it.” I have mixed feelings about sending him to college with this bike, because it’s so nice. I also doubt he’ll be able to get it on a bus bike rack - and I have no idea how often he will want to do that. His bike life is totally unknown at this point. All I know is that I’m getting him dyno because the kid has never remembered to charge a light in his LIFE and I will not sleep at night without it.The 52 takes 650b wheels and the 59 takes 700c, so I don’t want to buy the wheels until I know which bike he really wants. But as of now, he wants his new bike.I know people will say we should just get a beater. I know why that would be advisable, but I also hate to think of a Clem languishing when it could be serving a noble purpose. I’d love for him and his Clem to journey through undergrad together.I am wondering…has anyone gone to college or sent their kid to college with a Clem? What do you have to say about it? Photos in the next post…Leah



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