Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Ryan
Oh...sorry that's not mine...haven't posted mine...that is Cyclotourist's 
bike:) He often posts here and is the owner of a very lovely pair of blue 
rivendells..an A/R and a Road.
 
Mine is Harvest Gold...have been swapping some things out and the 
Ciussis..which do work...may be replaced by those swoopy Iris cages
 
I'm riding an MS150 tour in Manitoba  in late August and taking my Riv 
Road...and I'll try and post some pictures. Cheers!
 
Sorry for the confusion
On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 5:53:23 PM UTC-5, Ron Mc wrote:

 I'd already outfitted my bikes with V-O Moderniste, but the King cage is a 
 good deal.   
 Ryan, your bike is gorgeous - what is your saddle?  

 On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:08:18 PM UTC-5, Ryan wrote: 

 I have those Ciussi Elite aluminun cages w the plastic buttons. I think I 
 want something more grown-up (restrained and tasteful).
  
 I never really warmed to the $50.00+ Nitto cages...  totally 
 an exception, not the rule for Nitto. If Nitto ever made a complete group 
 ,I'd beg,borrow or steal to have it.
  
 But those Iris cages look smashing. I can see why you switched:
  
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/9325930580/in/pool-rivendell
  
 See the heart in the photo?
  
  
  

 On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:17:06 PM UTC-5, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hooray for Rivendell for carrying this great MUSA product. I've moved 
 from Nitto to King Iris cages on all my bikes over the last few years and 
 absolutely love them!

  Cheers,
 David



 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comwrote:

 On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 19:37 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
  And, from my experience with Nittos and VOs, the Kings are much
  sturdier and hold bottles better.

 Especially if you want to overload the cages with extremely large, heavy
 stainless steel bottles.  Also, the King Iris is by far the best cage
 for the third position, underneath the down tube.
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Patrick Moore
I've used the Nitto butterfly cages, the VO similars as well as the VO
retros, and the King Irises, and I've managed to break two Nittos and
(IIRC) one VO but never a King, even with almost 30 oz double wall steel
bottles (= long and heavy). The King's don't look as shiny but IMO they are
the best out there regardless of value, and this is true even more given
the price.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Lynne Fitz fitzb...@comcast.net wrote:

 You buy the King cages when your VO cages break.  Like both of mine.
  Although, if I could weld aluminum, or whatever it is you do, they could
 be repaired.

 On Monday, May 20, 2013 6:08:56 PM UTC-7, Michael wrote:

 Finally  a nice wire cage that keeps bottles from falling out the side.
 Nitto-esque bottle cages at RBW on the cheap.

 http://www.rivbike.com/**product-p/wb7iris.htmhttp://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wb7iris.htm

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Steve Palincsar

On 08/01/2013 01:58 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
I've used the Nitto butterfly cages, the VO similars as well as the VO 
retros, and the King Irises, and I've managed to break two Nittos and 
(IIRC) one VO but never a King, even with almost 30 oz double wall 
steel bottles (= long and heavy). The King's don't look as shiny but 
IMO they are the best out there regardless of value, and this is true 
even more given the price.


Those two aren't really comparable.  The Nitto Butterfly isn't meant for 
loads as heavy as those you used, and it isn't meant for under the 
downtube use either; but it looks marvelous, holds a normal size and 
weight bottle very well, and yet it's easy to remove and replace the 
bottle.  The King Iris, by contrast, is perfect for overloading and 
under the downtube use; there's simply no way it can open from the 
weight of a bottle.  However, I found it damned near impossible to get 
the bottle out from either the downtube [i.e., NOT under the downtube] 
or seat tube positions with one hand with the bike moving.


The King Iris is a whole lot cheaper, too.  You can buy two King 
stainless cages (either the conventional style or the Iris) for less 
than half of what one Nitto Butterfly costs these days.



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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Patrick Moore
Well, they are comparable for the use of heavy bottles, right? At any rate,
I prefer a duller finish with worry free strength than shiny and cool with
less strength.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On 08/01/2013 01:58 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I've used the Nitto butterfly cages, the VO similars as well as the VO
 retros, and the King Irises, and I've managed to break two Nittos and
 (IIRC) one VO but never a King, even with almost 30 oz double wall steel
 bottles (= long and heavy). The King's don't look as shiny but IMO they are
 the best out there regardless of value, and this is true even more given
 the price.


 Those two aren't really comparable.  The Nitto Butterfly isn't meant for
 loads as heavy as those you used, and it isn't meant for under the downtube
 use either; but it looks marvelous, holds a normal size and weight bottle
 very well, and yet it's easy to remove and replace the bottle.  The King
 Iris, by contrast, is perfect for overloading and under the downtube use;
 there's simply no way it can open from the weight of a bottle.  However, I
 found it damned near impossible to get the bottle out from either the
 downtube [i.e., NOT under the downtube] or seat tube positions with one
 hand with the bike moving.

 The King Iris is a whole lot cheaper, too.  You can buy two King stainless
 cages (either the conventional style or the Iris) for less than half of
 what one Nitto Butterfly costs these days.


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Steve Palincsar

On 08/01/2013 02:13 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
Well, they are comparable for the use of heavy bottles, right? 


No.  You should NOT put heavy bottles into the Nitto Butterfly, It's 
totally unsuited.  As you well know.



At any rate, I prefer a duller finish with worry free strength than 
shiny and cool with less strength.



I like being able to get the bottles out while I am riding, and I 
couldn't do that with the King Iris, and god knows I tried.



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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Patrick Moore
No, no, no: my point is that you CAN and even MUST compare them in regard
of this use, in which case you will choose the Iris and not the Butterfly.

I've no problem getting bottles out of my 5 Iris cages -- better work on
that forearm and grip strength.

Patrick Moore, who is being deliberately persnickety in not-quite-serious
fashion.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On 08/01/2013 02:13 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

 Well, they are comparable for the use of heavy bottles, right?


 No.  You should NOT put heavy bottles into the Nitto Butterfly, It's
 totally unsuited.  As you well know.


  At any rate, I prefer a duller finish with worry free strength than shiny
 and cool with less strength.



 I like being able to get the bottles out while I am riding, and I couldn't
 do that with the King Iris, and god knows I tried.


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Donald Lee
Thanks Chris. I'll pick up an Iris next time I'm in Walnut Creek.

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread hsmitham
Steve,

I like being able to get the bottles out while I am riding, and I 
couldn't do that with the King Iris, and god knows I tried. 

-more beer curls will help :-)

~Hugh





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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Steve Palincsar

On 08/01/2013 06:59 PM, hsmitham wrote:

Steve,

I like being able to get the bottles out while I am riding, and I
couldn't do that with the King Iris, and god knows I tried.

-more beer curls will help :-)



That wouldn't help: you have to pull straight out to extract a bottle 
from a King Iris.  Curling, that is a curved lifting, will simply show 
you how strong those cages are and how weak you are in comparison.  
Seriously, like trying to extract something from the jaws of a bulldog.



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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Patrick Moore
I know I keep contradicting Steve, but it's all in good sport. Just this
afternoon on my errand out and back, I deliberately tried pulling a
standard 28 oz Rivendell bottle from an Iris and doing so at an upward
angle; no problem for me, though I agree that the more flexible Butterfly
and Retro cages make this even easier.

Steve: in case you ever want to use an Iris, you might try slightly
spreading the sides.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On 08/01/2013 06:59 PM, hsmitham wrote:

 Steve,

 I like being able to get the bottles out while I am riding, and I
 couldn't do that with the King Iris, and god knows I tried.

 -more beer curls will help :-)



 That wouldn't help: you have to pull straight out to extract a bottle from
 a King Iris.  Curling, that is a curved lifting, will simply show you how
 strong those cages are and how weak you are in comparison.  Seriously, like
 trying to extract something from the jaws of a bulldog.


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Steve Palincsar

On 08/01/2013 07:12 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
I know I keep contradicting Steve, but it's all in good sport. Just 
this afternoon on my errand out and back, I deliberately tried pulling 
a standard 28 oz Rivendell bottle from an Iris and doing so at an 
upward angle; no problem for me, though I agree that the more flexible 
Butterfly and Retro cages make this even easier.


Steve: in case you ever want to use an Iris, you might try slightly 
spreading the sides.



I do use an Iris: under the downtube, where it is unmatched.


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Hugh Smitham
Steve,

Seriously I've been using the iris cages now for two months with kleen
kanteens and admit they are a stiff pull, but in those two months I've
become use to them. I have never attempted to pull the third one bottom of
down tube  while riding as I believe you would need to have the flexibility
of a circ du soleil performer.

Perhaps you can hand bend them out a bit then mount them.

I used the Velo-Orange retro cages and they held the Kleen Kanteens okay
but on any rough terrain they rattled which was annoying.


Hugh
Sunland, Ca


On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On 08/01/2013 06:59 PM, hsmitham wrote:

 Steve,

 I like being able to get the bottles out while I am riding, and I
 couldn't do that with the King Iris, and god knows I tried.

 -more beer curls will help :-)



 That wouldn't help: you have to pull straight out to extract a bottle from
 a King Iris.  Curling, that is a curved lifting, will simply show you how
 strong those cages are and how weak you are in comparison.  Seriously, like
 trying to extract something from the jaws of a bulldog.


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-08-01 Thread Steve Palincsar

On 08/01/2013 07:48 PM, Hugh Smitham wrote:

Steve,

Seriously I've been using the iris cages now for two months with kleen 
kanteens and admit they are a stiff pull, but in those two months I've 
become use to them. I have never attempted to pull the third one 
bottom of down tube  while riding as I believe you would need to have 
the flexibility of a circ du soleil performer.


I hope nobody thought I was trying to get a bottle out of the 
under-the-downtube cage while riding!  No, I stole two Iris cages off 
the downtubes of two bikes and temporarily replaced the standard 
location cages that had broken on my Longstaff.  Went for a ride and 
discovered I simply couldn't get the bottles out unless I stopped and 
used two hands to pull the bottles out.





Perhaps you can hand bend them out a bit then mount them.


I didn't want to do that, because I had every intention of eventually 
putting them back from where I'd cannibalized them, and you really don't 
want a loose bottle between the down tube and the front wheel.




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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-07-31 Thread Ryan
I have those Ciussi Elite aluminun cages w the plastic buttons. I think I 
want something more grown-up (restrained and tasteful).
 
I never really warmed to the $50.00+ Nitto cages...  totally an exception, 
not the rule for Nitto. If Nitto ever made a complete group ,I'd beg,borrow 
or steal to have it.
 
But those Iris cages look smashing. I can see why you switched:
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/9325930580/in/pool-rivendell
 
See the heart in the photo?
 
 
 

On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:17:06 PM UTC-5, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hooray for Rivendell for carrying this great MUSA product. I've moved from 
 Nitto to King Iris cages on all my bikes over the last few years and 
 absolutely love them!

  Cheers,
 David



 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comjavascript:
  wrote:

 On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 19:37 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
  And, from my experience with Nittos and VOs, the Kings are much
  sturdier and hold bottles better.

 Especially if you want to overload the cages with extremely large, heavy
 stainless steel bottles.  Also, the King Iris is by far the best cage
 for the third position, underneath the down tube.
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-07-31 Thread Ron Mc
I'd already outfitted my bikes with V-O Moderniste, but the King cage is a 
good deal.  
Ryan, your bike is gorgeous - what is your saddle?  

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:08:18 PM UTC-5, Ryan wrote:

 I have those Ciussi Elite aluminun cages w the plastic buttons. I think I 
 want something more grown-up (restrained and tasteful).
  
 I never really warmed to the $50.00+ Nitto cages...  totally an exception, 
 not the rule for Nitto. If Nitto ever made a complete group ,I'd beg,borrow 
 or steal to have it.
  
 But those Iris cages look smashing. I can see why you switched:
  
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyclotourist/9325930580/in/pool-rivendell
  
 See the heart in the photo?
  
  
  

 On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:17:06 PM UTC-5, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hooray for Rivendell for carrying this great MUSA product. I've moved 
 from Nitto to King Iris cages on all my bikes over the last few years and 
 absolutely love them!

  Cheers,
 David



 On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.com wrote:

 On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 19:37 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
  And, from my experience with Nittos and VOs, the Kings are much
  sturdier and hold bottles better.

 Especially if you want to overload the cages with extremely large, heavy
 stainless steel bottles.  Also, the King Iris is by far the best cage
 for the third position, underneath the down tube.
  


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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-07-31 Thread Christopher Chen
Yes, yes they are! http://www.flickr.com/photos/lumachrome/9131448186/

The naming of the cage is interesting. The company is King Cage, or
Andrews, and the cage is an Iris.


On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Donald Lee m...@donaldlee.net wrote:

 Is this King cage a good fit for the standard or insulated Klean Kanteen?

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-07-31 Thread cyclotourist
Heart shaped cage.

On 7/31/13, Christopher Chen cc...@nougat.org wrote:
 Yes, yes they are! http://www.flickr.com/photos/lumachrome/9131448186/

 The naming of the cage is interesting. The company is King Cage, or
 Andrews, and the cage is an Iris.


 On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 3:56 PM, Donald Lee m...@donaldlee.net wrote:

 Is this King cage a good fit for the standard or insulated Klean Kanteen?

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Cheers,
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it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-21 Thread Steve Palincsar
On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 20:17 -0700, cyclotourist wrote:
 Hooray for Rivendell for carrying this great MUSA product. I've moved
 from Nitto to King Iris cages on all my bikes over the last few years
 and absolutely love them!
 

Great for third bottle, under the downtube use, but for me just about
impossible to get the bottle out while riding if used in either of the
two normal positions.



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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-21 Thread PATRICK MOORE
Practice, Steve, practice. What, do you expect everything to be easy?!

Seriously, I have no problem. But then, I'm very talented.

Patrick Serious? Moore

On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 4:54 AM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:


 Great for third bottle, under the downtube use, but for me just about
 impossible to get the bottle out while riding if used in either of the
 two normal positions.



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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-21 Thread bobish
Nothing wrong with treating that under downtube cage as storage for an extra 
water bottle which is then swapped with one of the more convenient empties at 
the next pit stop. The under downtube cage is also great for non-hydration 
use—such as first aid kit, etc. I usually use it for a multi-bike-swappable kit 
I've put together and store in one of these:

http://www.cagerocket.com/product_info.htm

If I'm going to need access to that kit, I'm off the bike anyway.

Perry

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-21 Thread Deacon Patrick
Huh. My first aid kit is pine needle dust or fresh smoked pipe ash, spit, 
swiss army knife, and a bandana. Anything more serious than that and I need 
an ER anyway. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:46:52 AM UTC-6, bobish wrote:

 Nothing wrong with treating that under downtube cage as storage for an 
 extra water bottle which is then swapped with one of the more convenient 
 empties at the next pit stop. The under downtube cage is also great for 
 non-hydration use—such as first aid kit, etc. I usually use it for a 
 multi-bike-swappable kit I've put together and store in one of these: 

 http://www.cagerocket.com/product_info.htm 

 If I'm going to need access to that kit, I'm off the bike anyway. 

 Perry

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-20 Thread PATRICK MOORE
And, from my experience with Nittos and VOs, the Kings are much sturdier
and hold bottles better.

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:27 PM, Ron Mc bulldog...@gmail.com wrote:

 Very nice cage.  Similar cages are the Nitto Racer and the V-O Moderniste.
  Price is right on the King version - a fraction of the Nitto.

 On Monday, May 20, 2013 8:08:56 PM UTC-5, Michael wrote:

 Finally  a nice wire cage that keeps bottles from falling out the side.
 Nitto-esque bottle cages at RBW on the cheap.

 http://www.rivbike.com/**product-p/wb7iris.htmhttp://www.rivbike.com/product-p/wb7iris.htm

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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-20 Thread Steve Palincsar
On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 19:37 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
 And, from my experience with Nittos and VOs, the Kings are much
 sturdier and hold bottles better.

Especially if you want to overload the cages with extremely large, heavy
stainless steel bottles.  Also, the King Iris is by far the best cage
for the third position, underneath the down tube.



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Re: [RBW] Re: NITTO-esqe new King cages on Riv now for cheap!

2013-05-20 Thread cyclotourist
Hooray for Rivendell for carrying this great MUSA product. I've moved from
Nitto to King Iris cages on all my bikes over the last few years and
absolutely love them!

Cheers,
David



On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote:

 On Mon, 2013-05-20 at 19:37 -0600, PATRICK MOORE wrote:
  And, from my experience with Nittos and VOs, the Kings are much
  sturdier and hold bottles better.

 Especially if you want to overload the cages with extremely large, heavy
 stainless steel bottles.  Also, the King Iris is by far the best cage
 for the third position, underneath the down tube.



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