Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Harry Travis]

Patrick, I don't expect to see tomato skins advertised as a cut-resistant layer and shield in bike tires because we know that short of getting out the serrated knife, the way to get into a tomato with a not-sharp edge is to puncture it easily with the knife tip ...or a goat head.Anyway, it is entirely possible that TPU of sufficient thickness is more thorn resistant than butyl rubber or latex. Just as we would expect of woven metal fabric. This is materials science stuff.--Harry P Travis17.4.1On May 17, 2024, at 2:22 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:Good to have an opinion of Schwalbe 14A butyls versus at least 1 brand of TPU tubes; perhaps I'm well enough off with the Schwalbe butyl extralights which, besides, do very well amongst goatheads with OS regular forumla.On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 9:38 AM Ted Durant  wrote:On May 16, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Harry Travis  wrote:"I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube compared to a 30zI also have some Foss tubes that I have used in 584-42 and 584-48 Rene Herse ultralight tires, and I have used Scwhalbe #13 (standard) and #14A (extra light) tubes in those same tires. None of them make the tires feel like garden hoses, IMO. I never had to patch a Foss tube, but I haven’t put huge miles on them. I had what I think is more than a normal amount flats with the extra light butyl tubes, but I wouldn’t say that’s a certainty because wet roads and old tires are the primary risk factors and I can’t say I’ve controlled for that.I would rank order the tubes as you’d expect for “ride feel” -RH TPUSchwalbe extra lightFossSchwalbe standardI don’t think there’s much difference in feel between Foss and Schwalbe standard tubes, and the difference between RH TPU and Schwalbe extra light is pretty small.All just one man’s opinion.Ted DurantMilwaukee WI USA



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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Harry Travis]

On hyperbole of tires "transformed to garden hoses" - for ride quality - by using thicker TPU tubes: Worse than that, bullshit / BS, with the writer indifferent to the truth value.Or a parody of the kind that Bike Snob New York fed on..Too bad that it undercuts the serious value of that review: his own numerous reports of plastic valve failures. Not to mention punctures (which may have been a coincidence)Here are weights of lighter/road versions of tubes, followed by evaluation of ride quality. 46gRide quality not as good as lightest tubes36gRide quality not on par with thinnest designs26gRide quality is very good44gA little bit heavier tube meant ride quality was not as good as thinner competitors25gRide quality of road tube is very good30gRide quality is excellentSo, this evaluator had such exquisite sensitivity that 6-16g grams per tire was discernible. --Harry P TravisPortland Oregon USA 17.4.1On May 17, 2024, at 5:42 AM, Steve  wrote:Regarding the ability of "thicker TPU tubes" to transform a "high end tire" into "garden hoses"  -- do I detect a note of hyperbole? On Friday, May 17, 2024 at 12:53:14 AM UTC-4 travis...@gmail.com wrote:Then there is this froth from the sometime racer who tried several TPU tubes for Cuvling Weekly "I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube compared to a 30zCan you trust TPU tubes in a pinch? Best TPU tubes ridden and reviewed 2024cyclingweekly.com--Harry P TravisPortland Oregon USA 17.4.1On May 16, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Ted Durant  wrote:Final update from me. Rene Herse has been very good about it and is refunding me for the tubes that had the valve stem attachments fail.Ted DurantMilwaukee WI USA



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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Good to have an opinion of Schwalbe 14A butyls versus at least 1 brand of
TPU tubes; perhaps I'm well enough off with the Schwalbe butyl extralights
which, besides, do very well amongst goatheads with OS regular forumla.

On Fri, May 17, 2024 at 9:38 AM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On May 16, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Harry Travis  wrote:
>
> "I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes.
> Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same
> buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the
> bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden
> hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "
>
> Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm
> tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube
> compared to a 30z
>
>
> I also have some Foss tubes that I have used in 584-42 and 584-48 Rene
> Herse ultralight tires, and I have used Scwhalbe #13 (standard) and #14A
> (extra light) tubes in those same tires. None of them make the tires feel
> like garden hoses, IMO. I never had to patch a Foss tube, but I haven’t put
> huge miles on them. I had what I think is more than a normal amount flats
> with the extra light butyl tubes, but I wouldn’t say that’s a certainty
> because wet roads and old tires are the primary risk factors and I can’t
> say I’ve controlled for that.
>
> I would rank order the tubes as you’d expect for “ride feel” -
> RH TPU
> Schwalbe extra light
> Foss
> Schwalbe standard
>
> I don’t think there’s much difference in feel between Foss and Schwalbe
> standard tubes, and the difference between RH TPU and Schwalbe extra light
> is pretty small.
>
> All just one man’s opinion.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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> 
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

> On May 16, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Harry Travis  wrote:
> 
> "I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. 
> Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same 
> buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the 
> bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden 
> hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "
> 
> Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm 
> tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube 
> compared to a 30z
> 

I also have some Foss tubes that I have used in 584-42 and 584-48 Rene Herse 
ultralight tires, and I have used Scwhalbe #13 (standard) and #14A (extra 
light) tubes in those same tires. None of them make the tires feel like garden 
hoses, IMO. I never had to patch a Foss tube, but I haven’t put huge miles on 
them. I had what I think is more than a normal amount flats with the extra 
light butyl tubes, but I wouldn’t say that’s a certainty because wet roads and 
old tires are the primary risk factors and I can’t say I’ve controlled for that.

I would rank order the tubes as you’d expect for “ride feel” -
RH TPU
Schwalbe extra light
Foss
Schwalbe standard

I don’t think there’s much difference in feel between Foss and Schwalbe 
standard tubes, and the difference between RH TPU and Schwalbe extra light is 
pretty small.

All just one man’s opinion.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bill Lindsay]

While it is true that latex inner tubes are not made in 559-inch wheel 
sizes, they are absolutely made in 559mm BSD wheel sizes.  Maybe not quite 
as skinny as the tires Patrick Moore runs, but Vittoria makes one that is 
labeled 1.70" - 2.30". Michelin Air-Comp are out there with a box labeled 
1.6 - 2.1". 

Latex inner tubes are made in 559mm BSD wheel sizes.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 10:02:37 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I'd like to try latex tubes (hell, I'd like to try TPUs if they had a 
> better reputation) but latex tubes aren't made in 559" wheel sizes.
>
> Has anyone tried and had success with installing appropriately wide latex 
> tubes in smaller diameter wheels by folding the tube to fit? Results?
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Steve]

Regarding the ability of "thicker TPU tubes" to transform a "high end tire" 
into "garden hoses"  -- do I detect a note of hyperbole? 


On Friday, May 17, 2024 at 12:53:14 AM UTC-4 travis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Then there is this froth from the sometime racer who tried several TPU 
> tubes for Cuvling Weekly 
>
>
> "I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. 
> Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same 
> buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the 
> bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden 
> hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "
>
> Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm 
> tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube 
> compared to a 30z
>
> [image: pDvhismR5VitxpyD9aDPT8-1200-80.jpg]
>
> Can you trust TPU tubes in a pinch? Best TPU tubes ridden and reviewed 2024 
> 
> cyclingweekly.com 
> 
>
> 
>
>
> --
> Harry P Travis
> Portland Oregon USA 
> 17.4.1
>
> On May 16, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Ted Durant  wrote:
>
> Final update from me. Rene Herse has been very good about it and is 
> refunding me for the tubes that had the valve stem attachments fail.
>
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
> -- 
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ryan]

that's reassuring to hear

On Thursday, May 16, 2024 at 11:53:14 PM UTC-5 travis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Then there is this froth from the sometime racer who tried several TPU 
> tubes for Cuvling Weekly 
>
>
> "I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. 
> Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same 
> buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the 
> bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden 
> hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "
>
> Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm 
> tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube 
> compared to a 30z
>
> [image: pDvhismR5VitxpyD9aDPT8-1200-80.jpg]
>
> Can you trust TPU tubes in a pinch? Best TPU tubes ridden and reviewed 2024 
> 
> cyclingweekly.com 
> 
>
> 
>
>
> --
> Harry P Travis
> Portland Oregon USA 
> 17.4.1
>
> On May 16, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Ted Durant  wrote:
>
> Final update from me. Rene Herse has been very good about it and is 
> refunding me for the tubes that had the valve stem attachments fail.
>
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
> -- 
>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

Final update from me. Rene Herse has been very good about it and is 
refunding me for the tubes that had the valve stem attachments fail.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Harry Travis]

It had never occurred to me that in a pinch - pun- I might ever try to stuff part of a longer tube back into itself, while barely inflated,   in order to shorten it before inflating it within a tire.--Harry P TravisPortland Oregon USA 17.4.1On May 15, 2024, at 10:02 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:I'd like to try latex tubes (hell, I'd like to try TPUs if they had a better reputation) but latex tubes aren't made in 559" wheel sizes.Has anyone tried and had success with installing appropriately wide latex tubes in smaller diameter wheels by folding the tube to fit? Results?



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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like to try latex tubes (hell, I'd like to try TPUs if they had a
better reputation) but latex tubes aren't made in 559" wheel sizes.

Has anyone tried and had success with installing appropriately wide latex
tubes in smaller diameter wheels by folding the tube to fit? Results?

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RE: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bernard Duhon]

I had a series 3 flats in a short time with Tubolito.  I almost never flat.
Company replaced 2 promptly
I can’t blame the tube for 1 of those flats as I picked  up a rock puncture.
Also experienced valve leak that was fixed with Loctite.

Bought a patch kit to fix 2 tubes neither patches held.

$100.00 worth of tubes in the trash.

I am staying with latex for “unloaded” riding & butyl for loaded 
touring/groceries etc. .

Bernard


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 3:09 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

T
On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 1:08:28 AM UTC-4 
travis...@gmail.com<mailto:travis...@gmail.com> wrote:
When I wrote that the sizes and weights explained the appeal to "oldez", I was 
referring to riders like myself trained by the bicycle press from adolescence 
to stop and look -- and even spend, again -- to save some grams.

Chis Fly might also have been thinking of the experience of riders saving less 
weight than was the promise of "CO2 cartridges will replace pumps", what with 
the backup cartridges in case of failure to dispense correctly or the  
insufficiency of just one, or two.

The expected maximum benefit for all the risks of disappointment in TPU tubes 
is estimated in tests with measurement repeatability of  +- 0.3 watts, on the 
order of 2 watts per tire @50psi compared to a thin butyl tube.  Expected 
benefit compared to the lightweight butyl tube may be no more than 1 watt per 
tire , about the energy loss of a tube rubbing inside your tire. (Latex tubes 
are grippy.)

(I apologize that the rightmost original column with average energy losses in 3 
fast 25mm tires @ 60psi would not fit in a screen shot. The lower the pressure, 
the greater the expression of between-tube differences.)


[https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/attach/30e76badecf96/image0.png?part=0.0.1=1]



- --
Harry P Travis
Portland, OR USA
17.4.1


On May 14, 2024, at 6:03 PM, Chris Fly  wrote:

light weight and a small footprint is all well and good until you are on the 
side of the road, tired and blow through your tubes trying to get your tire 
seated back on the rim.. these seem way too fragile for me to worry about the 
weight difference.. and I'm sorry, but I just can't see the difference between 
a good latex and a TPU making that much difference when riding.. I get the 
numbers will say the TPU spins up xx% faster from a stop, etc. but I don't buy 
that it will make much of a real world difference.. and, as I said prior, I 
don't even use a latex tube as a spare based on how you can bung those up as 
well on the side of the road..

ride what you want to ride for sure, but don't try and sell me on the 
advantages of saving 50g (100g for a set) when the total system weight for me 
is around 235 lbs.. especially if it sacrifices reliability, which it seems to 
do in this case..

Chris

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:43 PM Harry Travis  wrote:
A pic to remind of best reason - WL mentioned it early- why these have even 
oldez wanna spend.

these are all tube for nominal 25mm tires.   including one 80g latex tube  and 
three butyl tubes for nominal and indeed small 25mm tires.

Lightest TPU tubes weighed 20-25g.


--
Harry P Travis
17.4.1


On May 14, 2024, at 4:28 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

Sheesh; sorry for the bad experiences and, again -- don't hate me for this -- 
thanks for being the bad-news guinea pig.

Let us know if you ever rustle up Rene Herse customer service for refunds or 
replacements.

I use Schwalbe extra light butyls with Orange Seal regular formula in road 
tires (30 to 60 psi, 559 X 42 and 559 X 28, slightly lower psi in front than 
rear) and I am very happy to report that this works well. I guess I'll continue 
to be happy with this arrangement for a while longer.

Everybody: If you experiment with TPUs, please keep the list informed. Thanks.

Patrick Moore, who would love to swap 70 gram / 100 gram butyls for 35 gram, 
faster-rolling TPUs with compatible sealant proven against goatheads, in ABQ, 
NM.

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:19 PM Ted Durant  wrote:
Another update. Found my Riv Road (622x32) had an almost flat front tire this 
afternoon. Pulled the tube and found no holes but a very slow leak from the 
valve stem. Using my fingers to grip the stem, I was able to back off the core 
then re-tighten it. The leak was worse. So, I gripped the valve with pliers and 
again re-tightened the core. As I worried would happen, when I went to 
reinflate the tube to check for a leak, the tube had broken at the base of the 
stem. That tire is now inflated by old reliable Schwalbe no 16. Out of the six 
tubes I bought in that size, I'm down to three usable. I like having 
removable/replaceable cores, but they're kind of silly on tubes that have such 
a fragile connection to the valve.

The repair I made yesterday (Waterford ST-22, 622x32, rear wheel) didn't 

Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Garth]

T

On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 1:08:28 AM UTC-4 travis...@gmail.com wrote:

> When I wrote that the sizes and weights explained the appeal to "oldez", I 
> was referring to riders like myself trained by the bicycle press from 
> adolescence to stop and look -- and even spend, again -- to save some 
> grams. 
>
> Chis Fly might also have been thinking of the experience of riders saving 
> less weight than was the promise of "CO2 cartridges will replace pumps", 
> what with the backup cartridges in case of failure to dispense correctly or 
> the  insufficiency of just one, or two.
>
> The expected maximum benefit for all the risks of disappointment in TPU 
> tubes is estimated in tests with measurement repeatability of  +- 0.3 
> watts, on the order of 2 watts per tire @50psi compared to a thin butyl 
> tube.  Expected benefit compared to the lightweight butyl tube may be no 
> more than 1 watt per tire , about the energy loss of a tube rubbing inside 
> your tire. (Latex tubes are grippy.)
>
> (I apologize that the rightmost original column with average energy losses 
> in 3 fast 25mm tires @ 60psi would not fit in a screen shot. The lower the 
> pressure, the greater the expression of between-tube differences.)
>
>
> [image: image0.png]
>
>
>
> - --
> Harry P Travis
> Portland, OR USA 
> 17.4.1
>
> On May 14, 2024, at 6:03 PM, Chris Fly  wrote:
>
> 
>
> light weight and a small footprint is all well and good until you are on 
> the side of the road, tired and blow through your tubes trying to get your 
> tire seated back on the rim.. these seem way too fragile for me to worry 
> about the weight difference.. and I'm sorry, but I just can't see the 
> difference between a good latex and a TPU making that much difference when 
> riding.. I get the numbers will say the TPU spins up xx% faster from a 
> stop, etc. but I don't buy that it will make much of a real world 
> difference.. and, as I said prior, I don't even use a latex tube as a spare 
> based on how you can bung those up as well on the side of the road.. 
>
> ride what you want to ride for sure, but don't try and sell me on the 
> advantages of saving 50g (100g for a set) when the total system weight for 
> me is around 235 lbs.. especially if it sacrifices reliability, which it 
> seems to do in this case.. 
>
> Chris 
>
> On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:43 PM Harry Travis  wrote:
>
> A pic to remind of best reason - WL mentioned it early- why these have 
>> even oldez wanna spend. 
>>
>> these are all tube for nominal 25mm tires.   including one 80g latex tube 
>>  and three butyl tubes for nominal and indeed small 25mm tires. 
>>
>> Lightest TPU tubes weighed 20-25g. 
>>
> 
>>
>> --
>> Harry P Travis
>> 17.4.1
>>
>> On May 14, 2024, at 4:28 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Sheesh; sorry for the bad experiences and, again -- don't hate me for 
>> this -- thanks for being the bad-news guinea pig.
>>
>> Let us know if you ever rustle up Rene Herse customer service for refunds 
>> or replacements.
>>
>> I use Schwalbe extra light butyls with Orange Seal regular formula in 
>> road tires (30 to 60 psi, 559 X 42 and 559 X 28, slightly lower psi in 
>> front than rear) and I am very happy to report that this works well. I 
>> guess I'll continue to be happy with this arrangement for a while longer.
>>
>> Everybody: If you experiment with TPUs, please keep the list informed. 
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who would love to swap 70 gram / 100 gram butyls for 35 
>> gram, faster-rolling TPUs with compatible sealant proven against goatheads, 
>> in ABQ, NM.
>>
>> On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:19 PM Ted Durant  wrote:
>>
>>> Another update. Found my Riv Road (622x32) had an almost flat front tire 
>>> this afternoon. Pulled the tube and found no holes but a very slow leak 
>>> from the valve stem. Using my fingers to grip the stem, I was able to back 
>>> off the core then re-tighten it. The leak was worse. So, I gripped the 
>>> valve with pliers and again re-tightened the core. As I worried would 
>>> happen, when I went to reinflate the tube to check for a leak, the tube had 
>>> broken at the base of the stem. That tire is now inflated by old reliable 
>>> Schwalbe no 16. Out of the six tubes I bought in that size, I'm down to 
>>> three usable. I like having removable/replaceable cores, but they're kind 
>>> of silly on tubes that have such a fragile connection to the valve.
>>>
>>> The repair I made yesterday (Waterford ST-22, 622x32, rear wheel) didn't 
>>> work. I pulled the tube again and checked for leaks in water, which I 
>>> should have done yesterday. I'm not sure whether what I thought was a hole 
>>> actually was, but I found a tiny hole in the same place relative to the 
>>> valve stem, the other way around. The hole was so tiny that it was not at 
>>> all visible - only could find it from the bubbles that came out of it under 
>>> water. So, that one is patched and reinstalled. 
>>>
>>> I've used Schwalbe superlight tubes on my Breadwinner 

Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh; sorry for the bad experiences and, again -- don't hate me for this
-- thanks for being the bad-news guinea pig.

Let us know if you ever rustle up Rene Herse customer service for refunds
or replacements.

I use Schwalbe extra light butyls with Orange Seal regular formula in road
tires (30 to 60 psi, 559 X 42 and 559 X 28, slightly lower psi in front
than rear) and I am very happy to report that this works well. I guess I'll
continue to be happy with this arrangement for a while longer.

Everybody: If you experiment with TPUs, please keep the list informed.
Thanks.

Patrick Moore, who would love to swap 70 gram / 100 gram butyls for 35
gram, faster-rolling TPUs with compatible sealant proven against goatheads,
in ABQ, NM.

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:19 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> Another update. Found my Riv Road (622x32) had an almost flat front tire
> this afternoon. Pulled the tube and found no holes but a very slow leak
> from the valve stem. Using my fingers to grip the stem, I was able to back
> off the core then re-tighten it. The leak was worse. So, I gripped the
> valve with pliers and again re-tightened the core. As I worried would
> happen, when I went to reinflate the tube to check for a leak, the tube had
> broken at the base of the stem. That tire is now inflated by old reliable
> Schwalbe no 16. Out of the six tubes I bought in that size, I'm down to
> three usable. I like having removable/replaceable cores, but they're kind
> of silly on tubes that have such a fragile connection to the valve.
>
> The repair I made yesterday (Waterford ST-22, 622x32, rear wheel) didn't
> work. I pulled the tube again and checked for leaks in water, which I
> should have done yesterday. I'm not sure whether what I thought was a hole
> actually was, but I found a tiny hole in the same place relative to the
> valve stem, the other way around. The hole was so tiny that it was not at
> all visible - only could find it from the bubbles that came out of it under
> water. So, that one is patched and reinstalled.
>
> I've used Schwalbe superlight tubes on my Breadwinner (584x48) and had
> mostly good luck with them, though I did get a flat on that bike's maiden
> voyage. That was a special treat because it was my first experience with
> rims designed for going tubeless and I didn't know how hard it would be to
> get the beads off the shelves (and back on again). I'm going to experiment
> with superlight tubes on my Riv Road, where I think I'll benefit from them.
> Not sure I'll use them elsewhere.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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> 
> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

Another update. Found my Riv Road (622x32) had an almost flat front tire 
this afternoon. Pulled the tube and found no holes but a very slow leak 
from the valve stem. Using my fingers to grip the stem, I was able to back 
off the core then re-tighten it. The leak was worse. So, I gripped the 
valve with pliers and again re-tightened the core. As I worried would 
happen, when I went to reinflate the tube to check for a leak, the tube had 
broken at the base of the stem. That tire is now inflated by old reliable 
Schwalbe no 16. Out of the six tubes I bought in that size, I'm down to 
three usable. I like having removable/replaceable cores, but they're kind 
of silly on tubes that have such a fragile connection to the valve.

The repair I made yesterday (Waterford ST-22, 622x32, rear wheel) didn't 
work. I pulled the tube again and checked for leaks in water, which I 
should have done yesterday. I'm not sure whether what I thought was a hole 
actually was, but I found a tiny hole in the same place relative to the 
valve stem, the other way around. The hole was so tiny that it was not at 
all visible - only could find it from the bubbles that came out of it under 
water. So, that one is patched and reinstalled. 

I've used Schwalbe superlight tubes on my Breadwinner (584x48) and had 
mostly good luck with them, though I did get a flat on that bike's maiden 
voyage. That was a special treat because it was my first experience with 
rims designed for going tubeless and I didn't know how hard it would be to 
get the beads off the shelves (and back on again). I'm going to experiment 
with superlight tubes on my Riv Road, where I think I'll benefit from them. 
Not sure I'll use them elsewhere.  

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

Further update. The patch on my 584x48 has held nicely, though I haven't 
ridden it yet. Meanwhile, the rear tire on my ST-22 (622x32) turned up flat 
yesterday. I took the opportunity to take out my Riv Road (622x32) and 
enjoyed a very fast (for me) ride. This evening I pulled the tube from the 
ST-22 and found a tiny hole. Exactly like the 584x48, I found a tiny bit of 
wire in the outer tread but not apparently poking through the inner casing. 
I patched and replaced the tube without incident. Alcohol wipe and Park 
glueless (MacOS still wants that to be clueless) patch, applied with the 
tube inflated.

The fact that I've easily removed, patched, and reinstalled a couple of 
tubes strengthens my belief that the tubes that failed on installation were 
probably defective. It also gives me a bit more confidence in the tubes 
(and my ability to repair in the field) going forward. They sure feel good 
when riding.

No word from RH on whether they're going to refund/replace the tubes I 
returned to them.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Well, between this thread and some others on other forums I've read, I see
no reason to stray away from my latex tubes in my Serotta or my butyl tubes
in my other bikes.. and, honestly, I can't see TPU riding any better than
latex.. and I don't mind pumping my tires, gives me a reason to use that
Silca pump I got for Christmas.. ;^)

Maybe I'll try the sealant in tube thing at some point if I start needing
to..

Chris

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 7:58 AM John Dewey  wrote:

> Only one data point for sure…but I’ve had terrible ‘luck’ with TPU. And my
> last puncture occurred JRA on smooth pave and the startling thing was how
> fast the tire deflated—instantaneously. Boom gone 
>
> That’s it for me, for now anyway. Perhaps the tech will evolve and then
> I’ll try again. I’d certainly love to ride that supple with complete
> confidence.
>
> Jock
>
> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[John Dewey]

Only one data point for sure…but I’ve had terrible ‘luck’ with TPU. And my
last puncture occurred JRA on smooth pave and the startling thing was how
fast the tire deflated—instantaneously. Boom gone 

That’s it for me, for now anyway. Perhaps the tech will evolve and then
I’ll try again. I’d certainly love to ride that supple with complete
confidence.

Jock

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 1:05 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> Update here. I went for a couple of rides, total of 100km, on my new
> 584x48's. They certainly feel nice, and at that volume you really are
> dropping noticeable weight from each wheel. By the end of the second ride I
> was thinking the rear felt a little too cushy. A pinch test said there was
> still plenty of pressure. The next morning, though, the tire was completely
> flat. I removed the tube (quite easily, no issues), inflated it a bit, and
> it seemed to be holding air just fine. I thought that for sure I'd be able
> to see a hole in the clear tubing. I swept the inside of the tire and found
> nothing. So, mounted it back up (easy, no issues), inflated it carefully,
> and set the bike aside. A few hours later I checked and it had lost a lot
> of pressure. So, took it out again (easy, no issues), inflated it and
> started running it through a sink full of water. I finally found a very
> tiny leak. Checking the tire in that location I found a tiny bit of wire in
> the outer tread of the tire but couldn't feel it on the inside. Removed the
> wire, marked the leak location on the tube, wiped with alcohol (removing my
> mark in the process, of course), and after it dried put on a Park glueless
> (I like that my Mac autocorrected that to clueless) patch, praying I put it
> in the right location. I put on the patch with air in the tire, figuring
> it's best not to stretch the patch area too much. Installed again (easy, no
> issues), inflated, and set the bike aside. We'll see if the patch is
> successful. Even if it is, though, I think the "TPU tubes are less prone to
> flats" argument seems to be debunked. Which is too bad. I really want to
> like these, but the rationale is dwindling in my experience.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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> .
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, often after 6 months or a year or more of riding, after the sealant
has plugged, I guess very many wee little thorn holes, enough sealant will
have wept into the tire carcase and dried to glue the tube to the inside of
the tire.

I use very thin butyl tubes. Even so, I've never, ever had a problem or
even a worry about just yanking hard to peel the tube off the tire; and
again, when it sticks firmly this is generally after >12 months at least.

The real and big problem is a big hole that dumps most of 2 to 4 fl oz
(depending if 1" or 1/8" tube) all at once into the inside of the tire;
then you don't usually have a sticking problem but you've got a bloody
mess. I carry an old bandana in each tool kit to wipe up such messes,
though 99/100 times I use them instead to wipe my hands after messing with
the chain.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 3:16 PM Chris Fly  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> How is it to take a tube with sealant out of the tire after the sealant
> has fixed a hole? Do they stick to each other?
>
> Chris
>
> Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”
>
> On May 11, 2024, at 2:11 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of
> using ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks,
> Avocets) and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open
> tubular" Paris Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles.
> Stan's worked in my 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of
> years, Orange Seal worked even better.
>
> I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100
> gram actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X
> 20/559X1", as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and
> (IIRC) lightweight Vittoria ditto.
>
> OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as
> well as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.
>
> *OS Regular Formula!* OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, *does
> not work for me* in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.
>
> The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very
> occasional (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS
> Regular won't seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let
> me get home before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2
> spare tubes, either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer --
> dry + 4 fl oz bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have
> to stop mid ride for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture
> with a Rema once back home.
>
> You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the
> area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue,
> and patch as usual.
>
> Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12
> or 18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or
> less often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately --
> due, I think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very
> small amounts of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is
> no longer enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing
> OS Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate;
> in very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
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> .
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Patrick,

How is it to take a tube with sealant out of the tire after the sealant has 
fixed a hole? Do they stick to each other?

Chris 

Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”

> On May 11, 2024, at 2:11 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of using 
> ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks, Avocets) 
> and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open tubular" Paris 
> Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles. Stan's worked in my 
> 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of years, Orange Seal 
> worked even better.
> 
> I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100 gram 
> actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X 20/559X1", 
> as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and (IIRC) 
> lightweight Vittoria ditto. 
> 
> OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as well 
> as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.
> 
> OS Regular Formula! OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, does 
> not work for me in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.
> 
> The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very occasional 
> (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS Regular won't 
> seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let me get home 
> before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2 spare tubes, 
> either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer -- dry + 4 fl oz 
> bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have to stop mid ride 
> for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture with a Rema once 
> back home. 
> 
> You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the 
> area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue, and 
> patch as usual.
> 
> Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12 or 
> 18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or less 
> often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately -- due, I 
> think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very small amounts 
> of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is no longer 
> enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing OS 
> Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate; in 
> very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
> ---
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of
using ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks,
Avocets) and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open
tubular" Paris Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles.
Stan's worked in my 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of
years, Orange Seal worked even better.

I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100
gram actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X
20/559X1", as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and
(IIRC) lightweight Vittoria ditto.

OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as
well as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.

*OS Regular Formula!* OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, *does
not work for me* in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.

The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very
occasional (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS
Regular won't seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let
me get home before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2
spare tubes, either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer --
dry + 4 fl oz bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have
to stop mid ride for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture
with a Rema once back home.

You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the
area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue,
and patch as usual.

Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12 or
18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or less
often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately -- due,
I think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very small
amounts of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is no
longer enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing OS
Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate; in
very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:52 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

>
> >
> > On May 11, 2024, at 3:23 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> >
> > 'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of
> the extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the
> land of goat heads; this for road tires;
>
> I’d like to hear more about your experience using sealant in butyl tubes.
> I tried that briefly. It seemed to make the tubes use-once-and-throw-away,
> as once it deflated the sealant stuck together so much that the tube
> wouldn’t inflate again.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

> 
> On May 11, 2024, at 3:23 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> 'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of the 
> extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the land 
> of goat heads; this for road tires;

I’d like to hear more about your experience using sealant in butyl tubes. I 
tried that briefly. It seemed to make the tubes use-once-and-throw-away, as 
once it deflated the sealant stuck together so much that the tube wouldn’t 
inflate again. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Ted: thanks for being an early guinea pig for TPUs, RH TPUs in particular.
Your travails have probably saved others much $$ and grief.

I'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of the
extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the
land of goat heads; this for road tires; I use tubeless for fat, very lp
off road tires) but until RH or someone else markets a sealant proven over
time to protect TPUs from thorns and other small penetrants, I'll hold off
to wait and see.

On Sat, May 11, 2024 at 2:06 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> Update here. I went for a couple of rides, total of 100km, on my new
> 584x48's. They certainly feel nice, and at that volume you really are
> dropping noticeable weight from each wheel. By the end of the second ride I
> was thinking the rear felt a little too cushy. A pinch test said there was
> still plenty of pressure. The next morning, though, the tire was completely
> flat. I removed the tube (quite easily, no issues), inflated it a bit, and
> it seemed to be holding air just fine. I thought that for sure I'd be able
> to see a hole in the clear tubing. I swept the inside of the tire and found
> nothing. So, mounted it back up (easy, no issues), inflated it carefully,
> and set the bike aside. A few hours later I checked and it had lost a lot
> of pressure. So, took it out again (easy, no issues), inflated it and
> started running it through a sink full of water. I finally found a very
> tiny leak. Checking the tire in that location I found a tiny bit of wire in
> the outer tread of the tire but couldn't feel it on the inside. Removed the
> wire, marked the leak location on the tube, wiped with alcohol (removing my
> mark in the process, of course), and after it dried put on a Park glueless
> (I like that my Mac autocorrected that to clueless) patch, praying I put it
> in the right location. I put on the patch with air in the tire, figuring
> it's best not to stretch the patch area too much. Installed again (easy, no
> issues), inflated, and set the bike aside. We'll see if the patch is
> successful. Even if it is, though, I think the "TPU tubes are less prone to
> flats" argument seems to be debunked. Which is too bad. I really want to
> like these, but the rationale is dwindling in my experience.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

Update here. I went for a couple of rides, total of 100km, on my new 
584x48's. They certainly feel nice, and at that volume you really are 
dropping noticeable weight from each wheel. By the end of the second ride I 
was thinking the rear felt a little too cushy. A pinch test said there was 
still plenty of pressure. The next morning, though, the tire was completely 
flat. I removed the tube (quite easily, no issues), inflated it a bit, and 
it seemed to be holding air just fine. I thought that for sure I'd be able 
to see a hole in the clear tubing. I swept the inside of the tire and found 
nothing. So, mounted it back up (easy, no issues), inflated it carefully, 
and set the bike aside. A few hours later I checked and it had lost a lot 
of pressure. So, took it out again (easy, no issues), inflated it and 
started running it through a sink full of water. I finally found a very 
tiny leak. Checking the tire in that location I found a tiny bit of wire in 
the outer tread of the tire but couldn't feel it on the inside. Removed the 
wire, marked the leak location on the tube, wiped with alcohol (removing my 
mark in the process, of course), and after it dried put on a Park glueless 
(I like that my Mac autocorrected that to clueless) patch, praying I put it 
in the right location. I put on the patch with air in the tire, figuring 
it's best not to stretch the patch area too much. Installed again (easy, no 
issues), inflated, and set the bike aside. We'll see if the patch is 
successful. Even if it is, though, I think the "TPU tubes are less prone to 
flats" argument seems to be debunked. Which is too bad. I really want to 
like these, but the rationale is dwindling in my experience. 

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Steve]

Thanks for your reply Ted. The WTB tpu tubes I recently mounted up came 
packaged with 'O' rings at about the midpoint of the stems. I wasn't quite 
sure of their purpose - finally decided they were to protect the stem-tube 
junction from contacting the edge of the rim hole and installed them the 
same way you did. 

Your experience with RH tubes makes me a bit wary of trying them. If and 
when I finally get around to purchasing tpu tubes for my Platypus with 
Velocity Quill rime I'll probably stick with the WTBs. So far I've been 
pleased with them on my Ritchey (I9 AR25 rims). I've only logged about 50 
miles on them so far, but it's all been on graveled forest roads and a few 
miles of single track. I've been inflating the 700c x 48mm RH knobbies to 
25psi. 

On Wednesday, May 8, 2024 at 11:18:55 AM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

>
> On May 7, 2024, at 9:49 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> Ted,  in an attempt yo educate myself in installation of these tubes, may 
> I ask did your RH tubes come packaged with an 'O' ring on the stem?  If so, 
> did you install it inside or outside of the rim?  
>
>
>
> O-ring is on the stem, right at the junction with the tube. I left it 
> there.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

> On May 7, 2024, at 9:49 PM, Steve  wrote:
> 
> Ted,  in an attempt yo educate myself in installation of these tubes, may I 
> ask did your RH tubes come packaged with an 'O' ring on the stem?  If so, did 
> you install it inside or outside of the rim?  


O-ring is on the stem, right at the junction with the tube. I left it there.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Steve]

Ted,  in an attempt yo educate myself in installation of these tubes, may I 
ask did your RH tubes come packaged with an 'O' ring on the stem?  If so, 
did you install it inside or outside of the rim?  
Thanks,  Steve

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 7:02:38 PM UTC-4 Ted Durant wrote:

> Update on my experience. I continue to like the ones that successfully 
> inflated on my 700x32 tires. Yesterday I took out that bike for the first 
> time in a couple of weeks and the tires were quite soft. So, the tubes 
> don't retain air as well as butyl, but it's not worse enough to be a 
> problem. And I did a pretty hard ride and was pleased with how fast it 
> ended up being.
>
> I also ordered some 650x48 tubes, but RH sent me 700x48. By the time they 
> responded to my inquiry they were sold out of the 650's. Fortunately the 
> next batch arrived pretty quickly and they promptly sent them to me. I 
> mounted those today and once again needed 3 tubes to get 2 wheels done. 
> These ones felt sturdier than the 700c skinny ones, but maybe it was just 
> the extra width. Installation went fine, but as I inflated it the valve 
> stem got sucked up into the rim. Weird! Deflated, checked for any snagging, 
> and tried again, same result. Repeat, same result. So I decided to remove 
> the tube and see what was going on. The tube came right out of the tire, 
> minus the valve stem which this time stayed firmly put in the rim, fully 
> detached from the tube.
>
> RH still hasn't responded to my inquiry about the two 700c tubes that 
> failed, which I sent back with the mis-shipped tubes. After this one, at 3 
> out 9 tubes failing, I am well put off by these. I certainly wouldn't carry 
> one as a spare ... I'd have to carry at least three to feel confident that 
> in crappy field conditions and dead tired I'd be able to successfully 
> install one. I also think that doing a patch in the field would be a roll 
> of the dice - no way to be sure you could get the tube out without tearing 
> it. 
>
> I'm very interested to hear the experience of others. Could be user error. 
> But I have over 50 years of wrenching experience, including 2 summers in a 
> bike shop, so if these are beyond my skill level, it's pretty hard to see 
> how these would be useful to anyone but a competitive rider with a budget 
> (or product sponsorship) and highly skilled support.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Harry Travis]

Ted:I am interested in all parts and the whole  of your report. Assuming you are saving a plausible 8 watts per pair of tires and riding hard or briskly, you would not be riding a lot faster, but you could enjoy the latex-tube feel and the ease you have when pushing hard and having a bit more.bicycle rolling resistance tested 4 or 5 them, including unmarked rebadges.Cost aside and despite what seems, post Covid experience,  an explosion in the market for tpu gloves, it is no surprise to me that the QC has not developed for the tube -stem interface with the new material. It is a trailing edge niche market, what with lower pressures permitting greater adoption of tubeless.  I doubt the number of engineers have been at work on the problem as have developed reliable attachment of tube and stem over more than a century and in hundreds of factories.On the attractiveness of the compact size for backup / spare. Yes, we've been there before with CO2 cartridges. How many are enough, three? Haha. And a back-up for the inflator? How burdensome, instead, is a mini-pump?TPU Inner Tubes Testbicyclerollingresistance.com--Harry P Travis17.4.1On May 7, 2024, at 4:02 PM, Ted Durant  wrote:Update on my experience. I continue to like the ones that successfully inflated on my 700x32 tires. Yesterday I took out that bike for the first time in a couple of weeks and the tires were quite soft. So, the tubes don't retain air as well as butyl, but it's not worse enough to be a problem. And I did a pretty hard ride and was pleased with how fast it ended up being.I also ordered some 650x48 tubes, but RH sent me 700x48. By the time they responded to my inquiry they were sold out of the 650's. Fortunately the next batch arrived pretty quickly and they promptly sent them to me. I mounted those today and once again needed 3 tubes to get 2 wheels done. These ones felt sturdier than the 700c skinny ones, but maybe it was just the extra width. Installation went fine, but as I inflated it the valve stem got sucked up into the rim. Weird! Deflated, checked for any snagging, and tried again, same result. Repeat, same result. So I decided to remove the tube and see what was going on. The tube came right out of the tire, minus the valve stem which this time stayed firmly put in the rim, fully detached from the tube.RH still hasn't responded to my inquiry about the two 700c tubes that failed, which I sent back with the mis-shipped tubes. After this one, at 3 out 9 tubes failing, I am well put off by these. I certainly wouldn't carry one as a spare ... I'd have to carry at least three to feel confident that in crappy field conditions and dead tired I'd be able to successfully install one. I also think that doing a patch in the field would be a roll of the dice - no way to be sure you could get the tube out without tearing it. I'm very interested to hear the experience of others. Could be user error. But I have over 50 years of wrenching experience, including 2 summers in a bike shop, so if these are beyond my skill level, it's pretty hard to see how these would be useful to anyone but a competitive rider with a budget (or product sponsorship) and highly skilled support.Ted DurantMilwaukee WI USA



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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bill Lindsay]

I don't have a whole lot of reporting to do, but according to this thread, 
I installed two 650B x 48 Rene Herse tubes on my custom Falconer on April 
22.  I have not ridden that bike since that time.  Checking that bike right 
now, after two weeks, the tires are pretty firm.  I'd definitely ride it. 
 Finger gauge judges they're probably at like 25psi, and I would have 
pumped 48s up to maybe 30psi at install-time.  So, I'd consider that normal 
air retention and leagues better than latex, and on-par with butyl.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, May 7, 2024 at 4:02:38 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> Update on my experience. I continue to like the ones that successfully 
> inflated on my 700x32 tires. Yesterday I took out that bike for the first 
> time in a couple of weeks and the tires were quite soft. So, the tubes 
> don't retain air as well as butyl, but it's not worse enough to be a 
> problem. And I did a pretty hard ride and was pleased with how fast it 
> ended up being.
>
> I also ordered some 650x48 tubes, but RH sent me 700x48. By the time they 
> responded to my inquiry they were sold out of the 650's. Fortunately the 
> next batch arrived pretty quickly and they promptly sent them to me. I 
> mounted those today and once again needed 3 tubes to get 2 wheels done. 
> These ones felt sturdier than the 700c skinny ones, but maybe it was just 
> the extra width. Installation went fine, but as I inflated it the valve 
> stem got sucked up into the rim. Weird! Deflated, checked for any snagging, 
> and tried again, same result. Repeat, same result. So I decided to remove 
> the tube and see what was going on. The tube came right out of the tire, 
> minus the valve stem which this time stayed firmly put in the rim, fully 
> detached from the tube.
>
> RH still hasn't responded to my inquiry about the two 700c tubes that 
> failed, which I sent back with the mis-shipped tubes. After this one, at 3 
> out 9 tubes failing, I am well put off by these. I certainly wouldn't carry 
> one as a spare ... I'd have to carry at least three to feel confident that 
> in crappy field conditions and dead tired I'd be able to successfully 
> install one. I also think that doing a patch in the field would be a roll 
> of the dice - no way to be sure you could get the tube out without tearing 
> it. 
>
> I'm very interested to hear the experience of others. Could be user error. 
> But I have over 50 years of wrenching experience, including 2 summers in a 
> bike shop, so if these are beyond my skill level, it's pretty hard to see 
> how these would be useful to anyone but a competitive rider with a budget 
> (or product sponsorship) and highly skilled support.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

Update on my experience. I continue to like the ones that successfully 
inflated on my 700x32 tires. Yesterday I took out that bike for the first 
time in a couple of weeks and the tires were quite soft. So, the tubes 
don't retain air as well as butyl, but it's not worse enough to be a 
problem. And I did a pretty hard ride and was pleased with how fast it 
ended up being.

I also ordered some 650x48 tubes, but RH sent me 700x48. By the time they 
responded to my inquiry they were sold out of the 650's. Fortunately the 
next batch arrived pretty quickly and they promptly sent them to me. I 
mounted those today and once again needed 3 tubes to get 2 wheels done. 
These ones felt sturdier than the 700c skinny ones, but maybe it was just 
the extra width. Installation went fine, but as I inflated it the valve 
stem got sucked up into the rim. Weird! Deflated, checked for any snagging, 
and tried again, same result. Repeat, same result. So I decided to remove 
the tube and see what was going on. The tube came right out of the tire, 
minus the valve stem which this time stayed firmly put in the rim, fully 
detached from the tube.

RH still hasn't responded to my inquiry about the two 700c tubes that 
failed, which I sent back with the mis-shipped tubes. After this one, at 3 
out 9 tubes failing, I am well put off by these. I certainly wouldn't carry 
one as a spare ... I'd have to carry at least three to feel confident that 
in crappy field conditions and dead tired I'd be able to successfully 
install one. I also think that doing a patch in the field would be a roll 
of the dice - no way to be sure you could get the tube out without tearing 
it. 

I'm very interested to hear the experience of others. Could be user error. 
But I have over 50 years of wrenching experience, including 2 summers in a 
bike shop, so if these are beyond my skill level, it's pretty hard to see 
how these would be useful to anyone but a competitive rider with a budget 
(or product sponsorship) and highly skilled support.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

Steve,
roger on the rotational weight for sure.. I guess where I see TPUs falling
down compared to latex tubes is a quality latex tube is around 75-80 grams,
compared to 35-45 grams for a TPU.. so not quite double, but we're also not
talking double like 100 vs 200 here.. guess I'm just not convinced I'd
notice 40 paperclip's worth of weight when spinning up my wheels.. esp when
we are talking the larger tires that most Riv riders roll with (or even my
30mm Vittorias on my Anderson).. but, hey, I'd never begrudge someone
buying something they wanted.. ;) the other issue, as I understand it, with
TPU tubes is once you inflate them, they will always maintain that size
they are when they are inflated, meaning they don't shrink back down to the
small packed size they were out of the package.. since that is one of the
biggest perks I've seen folks tout for TPUs (smaller footprint in the
saddlebag), it seems as it that would be negated when you go to put your
TPU tube back in your kit for next time? This is what I've read/seen on
videos, so I could be wrong since I've never tried them yet.. YMMV :)

Chris in Sonoma Co

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 4:36 PM Steve  wrote:

> Fourflys, I get your' comment regarding weight savings - heck, I'm
> planning to try TPUs on my full fendered and front racked Platypus which
> tips the sales around  32 lbs. *However* - my experience has always
> been that reducing the rotational weight of the wheels/tires yields a
> noticeable  dividend in performance, especially when climbing or
> accelerating.  It's the same reason that I've long considered a primo wheel
> set to be a worthwhile upgrade.
>
> Steve in AVL
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 5:23:39 PM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly,
>> bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I
>> think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and
>> butyl as backup in the bar bag..
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 2:00 PM Peter Adler  wrote:
>>
>>> My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for
>>> the valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the
>>> often-rough edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs,
>>> i've been threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few
>>> years, to push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee
>>> wondering whether the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds
>>> like they've obviated the need with the rubber donut.
>>>
>>> For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect
>>> without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to
>>> keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.
>>>
>>> Peter Adler
>>> Berkeley, California
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round
>>> piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little
>>> collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached
>>> to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it
>>> probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes
>>> - is that collar attached or flapping around?
>>>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Steve]

About that ruff...   The WTB Nanoair TPU tubes I'm "trialing" also included 
a little O- ring on the stem. I was a bit stumped for a moment regarding 
their purpose as there was no mention of them in the included literature. 
IIRC they were at about the midpoint of the stems (which incidentally are 
black plastic on the WTBs).  I finally decided exactly what Peter suggests 
- that they are meant to protect the stem-tube junction from direct contact 
with the edge of the drilled rim hole.  I installed them at the base of the 
stem prior to inserting it through the rim.  I did pump them up slowly with 
the RH tires popping into place on I9 rims at about 40 psi - though the 
tires had already seen several hundred miles of use on those rims. To my 
mind, the whole thing was a much simpler process than dealing with 
measuring and installing liquid sealant. 

Fourflys, I get your' comment regarding weight savings - heck, I'm planning 
to try TPUs on my full fendered and front racked Platypus which tips the 
sales around  32 lbs. *However* - my experience has always been that 
reducing the rotational weight of the wheels/tires yields a noticeable 
 dividend in performance, especially when climbing or accelerating.  It's 
the same reason that I've long considered a primo wheel set to be a 
worthwhile upgrade.  
 
Steve in AVL

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 5:23:39 PM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly, 
> bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I 
> think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and 
> butyl as backup in the bar bag..
>
> On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 2:00 PM Peter Adler  wrote:
>
>> My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for 
>> the valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the 
>> often-rough edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs, 
>> i've been threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few 
>> years, to push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee 
>> wondering whether the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds 
>> like they've obviated the need with the rubber donut.
>>
>> For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect 
>> without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to 
>> keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.
>>
>> Peter Adler
>> Berkeley, California
>>
>> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>
>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round 
>> piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little 
>> collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached 
>> to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it 
>> probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes 
>> - is that collar attached or flapping around?
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Chris Fly]

seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly,
bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I
think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and
butyl as backup in the bar bag..

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 2:00 PM Peter Adler  wrote:

> My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for the
> valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the often-rough
> edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs, i've been
> threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few years, to
> push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee wondering whether
> the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds like they've
> obviated the need with the rubber donut.
>
> For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect
> without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to
> keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.
>
> Peter Adler
> Berkeley, California
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece
> of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar,
> that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the
> tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably
> would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that
> collar attached or flapping around?
>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Peter Adler]

My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for the 
valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the often-rough 
edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs, i've been 
threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few years, to 
push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee wondering whether 
the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds like they've 
obviated the need with the rubber donut.

For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect without 
the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to keep 
cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.

Peter Adler
Berkeley, California

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece 
of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, 
that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the 
tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably 
would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that 
collar attached or flapping around?

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RE: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bernard Duhon]

The collar is glued down on Tubolitos



Yours sincerely,


Bernard F. Duhon

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Bill Lindsay
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2024 1:32 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a "Shakespeare 
collar", properly called a ruff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third will 
serve as a spare.

Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece of 
plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, that 
seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the tube - 
it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably would have 
prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that collar 
attached or flapping around?


Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bill Lindsay]

"they don’t say to pump it up slowly"

Maybe your box reads differently than mine.  I will quote from the second 
sentence on Step 6:

"Rapid airflow seats the tire abruptly, overstretching the tube until it 
can rip"

That is the sentence I paraphrased as "don't pump it up fast, pump it up 
slowly". 

That's not germane here, because you used a floor pump.  I used a floor 
pump, too.  Sounds like you've got a pair of bum tubes.  

BL in EC

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 12:58:08 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> > On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> > 
> > Did you pay attention to the instructions on the box? Particularly with 
> respect to their warning that you want to pump it up slowly so the material 
> has a chance to stretch? I read that as a "no compressors" warning. I 
> always use my floor pump anyway, because that's the gauge I trust. I only 
> use my compressor to seat tubeless tires. 
> > 
>
> Silca floor pump. Started leaking on the 3rd or 4th stroke. And they don’t 
> say to pump it up slowly, they say to inflate it 20psi at a time. I was 
> nowhere near 20 psi.
>
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

In the site instructions it says 10psi at a time. On the box it says 20.

I was nowhere near 10psi when they failed.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> Did you pay attention to the instructions on the box?  Particularly with 
> respect to their warning that you want to pump it up slowly so the material 
> has a chance to stretch?  I read that as a "no compressors" warning.  I 
> always use my floor pump anyway, because that's the gauge I trust.  I only 
> use my compressor to seat tubeless tires.  
> 

Silca floor pump. Started leaking on the 3rd or 4th stroke. And they don’t say 
to pump it up slowly, they say to inflate it 20psi at a time. I was nowhere 
near 20 psi.


Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bill Lindsay]

People consider me weird regardless.  ;-)

Did you pay attention to the instructions on the box?  Particularly with 
respect to their warning that you want to pump it up slowly so the material 
has a chance to stretch?  I read that as a "no compressors" warning.  I 
always use my floor pump anyway, because that's the gauge I trust.  I only 
use my compressor to seat tubeless tires.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 12:11:38 PM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> Yeah, I was going to call it that but thought people would consider me 
> weird. ;-)
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>
> On Apr 22, 2024, at 1:31 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a 
> "Shakespeare collar", properly called a ruff:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
>> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
>> will serve as a spare. 
>>
>>
>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round 
>> piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little 
>> collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached 
>> to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it 
>> probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes 
>> - is that collar attached or flapping around?
>>
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

Yeah, I was going to call it that but thought people would consider me weird. 
;-)

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 1:31 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a "Shakespeare 
> collar", properly called a ruff:
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)
> 
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> 
> 
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>>> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
>>> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
>>> will serve as a spare. 
>> 
>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece 
>> of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, 
>> that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the 
>> tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably 
>> would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that 
>> collar attached or flapping around?
>> 
>> 
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bill Lindsay]

Photo of the Tube Ruff:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53672228005/in/dateposted/

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:31:55 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a 
> "Shakespeare collar", properly called a ruff:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
>> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
>> will serve as a spare. 
>>
>>
>> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round 
>> piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little 
>> collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached 
>> to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it 
>> probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes 
>> - is that collar attached or flapping around?
>>
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Bill Lindsay]

That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a 
"Shakespeare collar", properly called a ruff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA


On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
> will serve as a spare. 
>
>
> Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece 
> of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, 
> that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the 
> tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably 
> would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that 
> collar attached or flapping around?
>
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Ted Durant]

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
> 
> I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this 
> morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third 
> will serve as a spare. 

Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece of 
plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, that 
seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the tube - 
it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably would have 
prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that collar 
attached or flapping around?


Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA


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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Patrick Moore]

Rene Herse makes their TPU tubes very slightly thicker -- adding ~3 grams
per IIRC -- to ensure resistance to heat from rim brakes. $33 per tube,
tho'.

Me, I'm going to wait until RH come up with a suitable sealant, apparently
Orange Seal does not work with them, and be they more flat resistant than
butyl, they'll certainly not be goathead-proof.

As for patches, someone recently describe successfully using standard
glueless patches on TPU tubes.

While my extralight RH tires (Elk Pass, Naches Pass) ride superbly with
ultra-thin butyl (plus Orange Seal regular formula), I'd not pass up even
better ride quality with TPUs once the goathead problem is solved.

FWIW, I recently saw an Amazon offer of a pair of 700C TPUs *with metal
valve stems* that, says RH, avoid the frustrating leaks of plastic valves,
plus 4 patches for IIRC $25 but I could not find that page just now.



On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 5:25 AM Brian Turner  wrote:

> Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the
> impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume
> due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t
> really have the right application for them in my stable.
>
> Brian
> Lex KY
>
> On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm
> knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up
> with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes
> I've ever used.
>
> Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route,
> bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My
> first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a
> tubeless setup.
>
> Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given
> the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them
> (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch
> satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?
>
>  I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels -
> but that wasn't my main objective.
>
> Steve
>
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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[John Dewey]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 4:27 PM John Dewey  wrote:

> Well, as a flyweight I figured I’m perfect candidate and installed Cyclami
> TPU…punctured several times right out of the box. We live in the mountains
> with long descents, and my experience gave me pause. BTW, time between
> punctures in my world is often measured in years. This riding Open Pro rims
> with Conti 5000 @ 32mm 60ish psi.
>
> I reinstalled the light butyl I had been using for peace pf mind. My sense
> is that, tho at first I thought / imagined snappier ride, after
> reinstalling butyl I’m thinking it was mostly my lively imagination.
>
> Just another data point…YMMV as always.
>
> Jock @ safe better than sorry
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:25 PM Brian Turner  wrote:
>
>> Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the
>> impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume
>> due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t
>> really have the right application for them in my stable.
>>
>> Brian
>> Lex KY
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:
>>
>> Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm
>> knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up
>> with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes
>> I've ever used.
>>
>>
>> Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route,
>> bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My
>> first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a
>> tubeless setup.
>>
>> Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given
>> the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them
>> (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch
>> satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?
>>
>>  I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels -
>> but that wasn't my main objective.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/218df2dd-6d34-4732-a344-3d04910a67cdn%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1014AAB8-C2E7-48E7-97CF-CE675A214C71%40gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[John Dewey]

Well, as a flyweight I figured I’m perfect candidate and installed Cyclami
TPU…punctured several times right out of the box. We live in the mountains
with long descents, and my experience gave me pause. BTW, time between
punctures in my world is often measured in years. This riding Open Pro rims
with Conti 5000 @ 32mm 60ish psi.

I reinstalled the light butyl I had been using for peace pf mind. My sense
is that, tho at first I thought / imagined snappier ride, after
reinstalling butyl I’m thinking it was mostly my lively imagination.

Just another data point…YMMV as always.

Jock @ safe better than sorry

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:25 PM Brian Turner  wrote:

> Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the
> impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume
> due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t
> really have the right application for them in my stable.
>
> Brian
> Lex KY
>
> On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm
> knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up
> with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes
> I've ever used.
>
>
> Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route,
> bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My
> first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a
> tubeless setup.
>
> Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given
> the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them
> (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch
> satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?
>
>  I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels -
> but that wasn't my main objective.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/218df2dd-6d34-4732-a344-3d04910a67cdn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[John Dewey]

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:25 PM Brian Turner  wrote:

> Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the
> impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume
> due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t
> really have the right application for them in my stable.
>
> Brian
> Lex KY
>
> On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm
> knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up
> with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes
> I've ever used.
>
>
> Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route,
> bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My
> first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a
> tubeless setup.
>
> Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given
> the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them
> (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch
> satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?
>
>  I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels -
> but that wasn't my main objective.
>
> Steve
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Steve]

Good question Brian.   Evidently some brands do caution that their tubes 
should not be used with rim brakes.  The marketing info for the WTB Nanoair 
TPU tubes I'm using does not mention any rim brake related restrictions. 
 Interestingly, Rene Herse states that TPU actually has a higher melting 
point than butyl and is perfectly safe for use with rim brakes.  Tubolitos 
website states they are safe with both carbon and alloy rim brake wheels.

I do recall reading rumors somewhere online about problems with early TPU 
tubes developing leaks at the junction of the tube and the valve stem 
(which may or may not have been related to heat build up).  To answer your 
question - I am trying them on a bike with disc brakes. If I purchase 
another set they will be for my Platypus with 650b Velocity Quill rims. 
Much of my riding is on mountain roads, often with long and sometimes steep 
descents, so I suppose I'll be doing my own field testing at that point.

Steve

https://www.renehersecycles.com/tpu-tubes-are-here/#:~:text=TPU%20stands%20for%20thermoplastic%20polyurethane,are%20safe%20with%20rim%20brakes.

https://www.tubolito.com/faq/

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/tech/gcn-clinic/gcn-tech-clinic-tpu-tubes-rental-bikes-and-matte-bike-maintenance#

On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 7:25:30 AM UTC-4 Brian Turner wrote:

> Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the 
> impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume 
> due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t 
> really have the right application for them in my stable.
>
> Brian
> Lex KY 
>
> On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:
>
> Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm 
> knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up 
> with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes 
> I've ever used. 
>
>
> Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route, 
> bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My 
> first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a 
> tubeless setup. 
>
> Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given 
> the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them 
> (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch 
> satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?
>
>  I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels - 
> but that wasn't my main objective.
>
> Steve
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/218df2dd-6d34-4732-a344-3d04910a67cdn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Brian Turner]

Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t really have the right application for them in my stable.BrianLex KY On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve  wrote:Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes I've ever used. Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route, bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a tubeless setup. Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality? I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels - but that wasn't my main objective.Steve



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