[RBW] Re: Big cassettes/Do I need a wolftooth roadlink or similar

[Benz, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 2:13:38 AM UTC+8, drew wrote:
>
> Interesting all around. I'm trying to save myself having to set it up and 
> then order a roadlink, wait for delivery and re set up. I'm just excited to 
> ride this bike and not wanting to wait. 
> Anyway, I just ordered the wolftooth since it sounds like in the least, it 
> won't hurt.


Maybe I'm missing something. The additional setup time/effort to add a 
Roadlink is minimal, since the chain wrap, derailleur adjustment, and 
derailleur cable loop length will not change. So you only need to use the 
"lo" limit screw to prevent overshifting into the larger cogs, and even 
that is optional if you're careful (not a catastrophic failure mode). So no 
need to wait unless you are counting on that last few low gears to get you 
over a climb.

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[RBW] Re: WTT - Thompson seatpost

[Tony DeFilippo]

Julian - Great question.  I was thinking about that on my ride in realizing I 
hadn't given enough info.  It's for my Saluki, and the setback one I own is 
currently installed on that bike so I'll caliper it when I get home to double 
check.  A quick look at Riv's site didn't turn up the seatpost size for a 
Saluki/AHH but I'm sure someone on the list had the info in their memory bank.

I'll update tonight.

Tony

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[RBW] Re: WTT - Thompson seatpost

[Julian Westerhout]

Tony, what size seat post do you have/want? 26.8? 27.2? 27.4? or? 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-6, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> I've got a nice silver Thomson Elite setback seatpost and I'd prefer a 
> zero setback post... Silver or black, doesn't have to be extra long though 
> my current position is uncut and quite long.
>
> I can pull it to measure it provide photos if requested.  I'm looking for 
> a straight trade, both parties cover their own shipping.
>
> Tony
>
>

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[RBW] Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Belopsky]

Would they work with the Shimano R400 shifters?

These: 
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/shifting/products/silver-shifter-downtube-stop-washer-pair

With these: [image: Image result for r400 sora]

I am looking at stocking up on a few bits. I recently bought 4 Tiagra R440 
front derailleurs because the price was right (12.44) and 28.6 front 
derailleurs are hard to find. I want to pick up some silver bits to have on 
hand for the next X years.


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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Bill Lindsay]

No.  Silver downtube stop washers are not compatible with Shimano downtube 
shifters.  Your photo, of a set of Shimano downtube shifters, has a little 
baggie of hardware on the left.  The curve profile base washers in that 
baggie serve the function of stop-washers on Shimano downtube shifters.  
That stop-function happens out in the open on Campy-clone downtube 
shifters, which friction Suntours and Silvers are.  That stop function 
happens on the inside with indexed Shimano and Shimano-clone shifters.  

If you 'stock up' on Shimano downtube shifters, they should come with that 
baggie of hardware, so you're done.  If you somehow get your hands on the 
shifter part in the right of the photo, but are missing the hardware baggie 
on the left, then you'll need to buy some Shimano base washer bits and some 
appropriate screws to mount the shiftlevers onto the downtube shifter 
bosses.  The base washers come in a curved variant, to match the curvature 
of a steel downtube, and they come in a flat variant, to use in barcon 
applications as well as on some downtube shifter bosses where the downtube 
is oversized or otherwise irregular in shape

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA



On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 7:42:23 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Would they work with the Shimano R400 shifters?
>
> These: 
> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/shifting/products/silver-shifter-downtube-stop-washer-pair
>
> With these: [image: Image result for r400 sora]
>
> I am looking at stocking up on a few bits. I recently bought 4 Tiagra R440 
> front derailleurs because the price was right (12.44) and 28.6 front 
> derailleurs are hard to find. I want to pick up some silver bits to have on 
> hand for the next X years.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not completely random. It has a hidden message: Frank J(ones).  Frank J. 
Ones. One's enough. One speed. Okay, maybe a stretch. I should go do some 
bike maintenance.

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 10:03:53 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I love that the Blue Lug people were like, "Yeah, we'll take the random 
> American name, let's go with that."

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Frankly, Jay, Ones enough. Okay, I'm (d)one.

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 8:15:44 AM UTC-8, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Not completely random. It has a hidden message: Frank J(ones).  Frank J. 
> Ones. One's enough. One speed. Okay, maybe a stretch. I should go do some 
> bike maintenance.
>
> On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 10:03:53 PM UTC-8, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I love that the Blue Lug people were like, "Yeah, we'll take the random 
>> American name, let's go with that."
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Belopsky]

The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?

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[RBW] Re: WTT - Thompson seatpost

['frank_a' via RBW Owners Bunch]

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 9:54:53 PM UTC-5, Tony DeFilippo wrote:
>
> I've got a nice silver Thomson Elite setback seatpost and I'd prefer a 
> zero setback post... Silver or black, doesn't have to be extra long though 
> my current position is uncut and quite long.
>
> I can pull it to measure it provide photos if requested.  I'm looking for 
> a straight trade, both parties cover their own shipping.
>
> Tony
>


27.2 

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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Belopsky]

Great, thanks for that Bill.
I understand that typically they come with the baggie - I found overseas 
some shifters for a good price $15-16USD  bit without the base washers.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3-Speed MTBing Resources?

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

>
> Revisiting this thread with a slight deviation but still 3 speed related 
>> and hoping those of you with more Sturmey Archer 3 speeding experience may 
>> help clarify:
>>
>> Are vintage SA rear hubs axles compatible with modern 10mm horizontals by 
>> simply replacing with appropriately sized new anti-rotation washers?  
>>
>>  
>>
>> I realize this question ignores over lock nut and frame spacing… I have 
>> considered this as well but before pursuing any further I wanted to at 
>> least confirm the issue with the old narrower flatted axle vs modern 10mm 
>> is a non-issue if the correct washers will take care of it?   I have an 
>> old 114 spaced AW hub (still built into the original steel wheel) and 
>> recently considered whether or not I could rebuild into a 700c alloy rim to 
>> fit 120mm spaced frame(s)?
>>
>>  
>>
>> Doing so would provide a 3 speed wheel that could fit both my Milwaukee 
>> single speed & old Raleigh frame that I THOUGHT would take the stock 
>> 590/650A/26x1-3/8 wheel but instead fits 700c with x-long reach brakes and 
>> already has 10mm rear horizontals.
>>
>>  
>>
>> If this works it’ll not only bring 3 speeding back into my life but help 
>> push some other conversion ideas out of my mind and only require rebuilding 
>> one wheel.  If using a Velocity dyad rim it would also provide a 
>> matching rear to an otherwise unmatched spare 700c dyad front wheel I 
>> already have.
>>
>
Thanks,
Brian Cole
Lawrenceville NJ 

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[RBW] Re: WTT - Nitto Dirt Drop 10cm stem (26.0) new in package for 8cm

[sean]

>
> Same specs as the one sold from Riv (i.e. quill length)? Is it in good 
> shape? Send me a pic. 
>

Thanks, 
Sean 

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[RBW] Re: Big cassettes/Do I need a wolftooth roadlink or similar

[drew]

ah, i didnt realize it wouldn't need chain and cable lengthening. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Big cassettes/Do I need a wolftooth roadlink or similar

[Jim Bronson]

Big-Big only if you have a double.  On a triple, if you use your gears
contentiously, you'd never ride big-big anyway. (This advice for RBWers and
other experienced riders only, FWIW).

I'm using combinations past the capacity of the my current derailer so the
only real requirement in my mind is that only the gears I actually use will
work.  That is what I test and adjust for.  I'm never going to use
small-small on a triple so I don't care if the chain is slack when I put it
in that combination, or not enough chain length on big-big.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Tim Gavin 
wrote:

> Drew-
>
> To be clear;  you will need to lengthen the chain and possibly the cables
> when you install the larger cassette.  Big cog to big chainring, plus two
> links.
>
> Benz is trying to say that you can do those things without the Roadlink,
> and that installing the Roadlink shouldn't change those things.  He's
> saying that you could ride it with the large cassette and without the
> Roadlink if you lock out the largest cog or two.
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:44 AM, drew  wrote:
>
>> ah, i didnt realize it wouldn't need chain and cable lengthening.
>>
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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks Ed.  That helps a lot, as well as the comments from others.

Question(s) - From a sizing standpoint, did you fit in the middle of the 
PBH recommendations for a particular size (of the Roadini) or were you on 
the outer edge of those recommendations (where you could have gone with 
either a smaller or larger frame)?  If on the edge, which way did you 
choose?  Also, if you were in the middle of the recommendations, does the 
bike fit you just as expected?  Any surprises as to saddle/handlebar 
heights or reach?  What size Joe vs Roadini?  

Big thanks for any help or info!

Bob 

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:11:03 PM UTC-6, Ed Carolipio wrote:
>
> I was in a similar situation: I have a Joe and was looking for "something 
> else" to complement it. I ended up getting a Roadini instead of the Sam 
> since I thought there was too much overlap between the Sam and the Joe. (To 
> be fair, I haven't ridden the Sam.) I peeked at the Roadeo but don't ride 
> often enough to justify the cost difference. As others have said, setup is 
> everything so I purpose built each for the job: Joe is an upright 
> tourer/townie (racks, fenders, dynamo lights) and Leo is a drop bar 
> meanderer. I live in the city so all my riding is asphalt, with road 
> quality and traffic being the biggest variables.
>
> As expected, efficiency is the most notable difference with the two (duh). 
> I say "efficiency" since as an old fart I don't go much faster on the 
> Roadini, but I can definitely go further and hills are much easier to 
> tackle. Both are fun to ride in their own Rivendell way, and the Roadini 
> "just for fun" is a nice change of pace from put-putting around on the Joe. 
> The ride position makes a difference to me as well as I prefer the Joe when 
> playing in traffic while I would rather ride the Roadini on dedicated paths 
> or on not-so-busy streets.
>
> Note that I did find the skinny tires (Paselas) on the Roadini a little 
> jarring, at least compared to the 50mm Marathons on the Joe, so I bit the 
> bullet and got Compass 32mm tire. That helped out a lot. I'm still messing 
> with other setup things on the Roadini, but I'm definitely happy with it as 
> an alternative to the Joe which I can just grab and ride.
>
>
> --Ed C.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Jeremy Tavan]

I had my LBS order a 55, but I think I was too late to get the silver one 
(my preference). That was fast. Oh well, the blue looks nice, too.

Now here's the fun question - do I build it up as a single speed or a 
3-speed IGH? 

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 12:05:07 PM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Well, I ordered the 53.
>
> I was hoping to see geometry for the 55 but I think the 53 is right.
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Ken Yokanovich]

Anxiously awaiting any announcement.  Finger exercises and stretching for 
quick-click reaction time so I can buy one as a LONG awaited replacement 
for my dearly departed Quickbeam. 

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:
>
> The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Clayton.sf]

Sucks. Had it in the cart and once I hit submit after entering payment it 
said inventory issues. 

Oh well.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 11:47:01 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>
> well its announced, get your finger ready for the 12pm pst post
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>>
>> Anxiously awaiting any announcement.  Finger exercises and stretching for 
>> quick-click reaction time so I can buy one as a LONG awaited replacement 
>> for my dearly departed Quickbeam. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:
>>>
>>> The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Belopsky]

they said its a homer blue and thats what i ordered

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 4:03:53 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> The blue is pretty. It reminds me of the old Ram color, although I think 
> it's an old Hilsen hue. Alas, I'm all full up on on bikes with my 2-speed 
> Cheviot and Bike Friday cargo bikes on the way. Enjoy, Jonesers!

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[lconley]

57cm Blue, I don't understand the preference for silver, but it worked out 
for me.

Now I need to order some rims to lace to the NOS Campy hubs - definitely 
polished finish on the rims. I also have an NOS Spidel Crankset (French 
Campy copy that is actually nicer - it is finished on the backside of the 
crank arms, just like the front). In fact, think I have everything I need 
except for the rims and handlebars. Not sure about tires yet - likely 38mm 
Compass Barlow Pass Extralight. This is going to be old school, lightweight 
and stripped with dropped bars, but with comfortable tires. Given the low 
BB - this may be the bike for my Lyotard Marcel Berthet platform pedals.

Laing

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[RBW] Re: fs: Brooks B17 Imperial + Nitto Noodles 46cm + Grand Cru seatpost + Dimension stem

[Eric]

Seatpost is SOLD! 

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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[John G.]

Bill speaks wisely. I also bought a Roadini frameset (pre-order frenzy 
always gets me), even though I also owned a Black Mountain Cycles road 
bike. Functionally, they are almost identical. If I could do it all over 
again, I would probably buy a Sam instead of a Roadini for all of the 
reasons Bill lists. It's more versatile, and you're probably sacrificing a 
pound at the most. 

This is not a critique of the Roadini. It's more of a critique of how I 
make silly decisions about my own stable.

And FWIW, I traded a few emails with Grant and he said my 89.5 PBH would 
put me on a 58cm Sam, no question.

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:35:40 PM UTC-5, Jonathan wrote:
>
> I was in a similar situation to you a couple months ago. I have a Joe that 
> I love, but I wanted a Rivendell for longer, faster road rides. 
>
> I chose to pre-order a Sam mainly because of the sizing issue that you 
> referenced in your other thread. Like you, I have an 89cm PBH. My 58 
> Appaloosa fits great. I have had too many bikes that feel just a little bit 
> too big or a little bit too small. I was worried about being in between 
> sizes on the Roadini, but with the Sam I fit right in the middle of the 
> recommended PBH range. On top of that, you get more tire clearance, more 
> braze-ons, and more lugs. As Bill mentioned in the last post, the Roadini 
> might end up being a little bit faster, but other than that, the Sam gives 
> you way more options for future builds. 
>
> Yes, Joe and Sam framesets might appear to overlap, but the builds will 
> set them apart. My Joe is typical commuter with fenders, racks, bags, 
> upright bars (currently Chocomoose, but planning to try the Bosco 
> Bullmoose). When the Hillborne gets here, it will get drop bars, fenders, 
> 38mm Barlow Pass tires, and a saddle bag. 
>
> Sorry I don't have any actual ride comparisons, but my Sam wont be here 
> until January. 
>

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[RBW] fs: Brooks B17 Imperial + Nitto Noodles 46cm + Grand Cru seatpost + Dimension stem

[Eric]

Four items for sale! 

*1) **Brooks B17 Imperial*. Very nice shape, approx 1k miles. I'll include 
a Brooks wrench.* $70 shipped in CONUS*. 

https://flic.kr/p/HJcXBD
https://flic.kr/p/D2HZbX
https://flic.kr/p/21kbgSP
https://flic.kr/p/HJcXRM
https://flic.kr/p/ExFob3
https://flic.kr/p/21kbh64
https://flic.kr/p/21kbgRB
https://flic.kr/p/HJcXPT

*2) **Nitto Noodle handlebar*. Mod 177. 46cm wide. Heat treated. Some light 
bar tape residue. 

*$50 shipped in CONUS.*
https://flic.kr/p/ExFo8C
https://flic.kr/p/21kbh3t
https://flic.kr/p/21AodtE
https://flic.kr/p/HJcXMP
https://flic.kr/p/21kbgPc
https://flic.kr/p/D2HZ1B

*3) **Grand Cru Long Setback Seatpost*. 27.2 diameter. Nice Nitto-like 
finish. A few minor marks on the upper backside, otherwise great. *$40 
shipped in CONUS.*

https://flic.kr/p/ExFo51
https://flic.kr/p/21kbgZx
https://flic.kr/p/HJcXJH
https://flic.kr/p/21AodrW
https://flic.kr/p/D2HYYx


*4)* *Dimension stem*. +35 degrees. For 1 1/8" steerer / 26.0 clamp. I'm 
not exactly sure how long but it's either 120 or 130 (what's the method to 
measure super rise stems?!). Some light marks.

* $16 shipped in CONUS. *https://flic.kr/p/21kbgXZ
https://flic.kr/p/21kbgWB
https://flic.kr/p/D2HZda
https://flic.kr/p/21kbgXZ

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[iamkeith]

Glad to hear you pulled the trigger, after all that.   Congratulations

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 2:51:23 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> they said its a homer blue and thats what i ordered
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Big cassettes/Do I need a wolftooth roadlink or similar

[Tim Gavin]

I agree, Jim.  Totally valid but a "pro tip".

It also depends on the rear derailleur; some MTB RDs have enough chain
takeup for a very long chain.

On my Riv ('97 Road Standard), I have a 52/42/30 road triple and an 11-34
cassette.  The Shimano RD-M772-SGS (long cage) can handle enough chain for
the Sheldon-recommended big-big+2 method, without sagging on small-small.
Not that I'll ever use either cross-chain combination on purpose, but on a
long day of touring my brain gets fuzzy.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> Big-Big only if you have a double.  On a triple, if you use your gears
> contentiously, you'd never ride big-big anyway. (This advice for RBWers and
> other experienced riders only, FWIW).
>
> I'm using combinations past the capacity of the my current derailer so the
> only real requirement in my mind is that only the gears I actually use will
> work.  That is what I test and adjust for.  I'm never going to use
> small-small on a triple so I don't care if the chain is slack when I put it
> in that combination, or not enough chain length on big-big.
>
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:07 PM, Tim Gavin  com> wrote:
>
>> Drew-
>>
>> To be clear;  you will need to lengthen the chain and possibly the cables
>> when you install the larger cassette.  Big cog to big chainring, plus two
>> links.
>>
>> Benz is trying to say that you can do those things without the Roadlink,
>> and that installing the Roadlink shouldn't change those things.  He's
>> saying that you could ride it with the large cassette and without the
>> Roadlink if you lock out the largest cog or two.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:44 AM, drew  wrote:
>>
>>> ah, i didnt realize it wouldn't need chain and cable lengthening.
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Jonathan]

I was in a similar situation to you a couple months ago. I have a Joe that 
I love, but I wanted a Rivendell for longer, faster road rides. 

I chose to pre-order a Sam mainly because of the sizing issue that you 
referenced in your other thread. Like you, I have an 89cm PBH. My 58 
Appaloosa fits great. I have had too many bikes that feel just a little bit 
too big or a little bit too small. I was worried about being in between 
sizes on the Roadini, but with the Sam I fit right in the middle of the 
recommended PBH range. On top of that, you get more tire clearance, more 
braze-ons, and more lugs. As Bill mentioned in the last post, the Roadini 
might end up being a little bit faster, but other than that, the Sam gives 
you way more options for future builds. 

Yes, Joe and Sam framesets might appear to overlap, but the builds will set 
them apart. My Joe is typical commuter with fenders, racks, bags, upright 
bars (currently Chocomoose, but planning to try the Bosco Bullmoose). When 
the Hillborne gets here, it will get drop bars, fenders, 38mm Barlow Pass 
tires, and a saddle bag. 

Sorry I don't have any actual ride comparisons, but my Sam wont be here 
until January. 

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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Bob Lovejoy]

Thanks Bill!  You do remind me of a friend, a co-worker, in Denver.  I 
would have spent far too long overanalyzing something, usually which bike 
to keep, sell, modify, build a different way, etc.  I would tell him of my 
dilemma, whatever it was, expecting at least a delay in his response while 
he thought through all that I told him.  Anyway, without any discernible 
hesitation, he would say, just do this, this and this and, well, problem 
solved!  And I would stand there, lost for words, as he always seemed to 
cut to the essence of the problem and present, almost always, the right 
answer.  You guys kill me!  And make me laugh at myself as well...

You are exactly right!  The only danger would be my own habit of 
overbuilding and making a bike heavier than it needs to be.  I do know the 
Sam would fit me, no doubt about that.  I am going on more group rides (the 
"Cyclists of Galesburg"!) and though we do not go that fast, a little 
additional efficiency or speed would be welcome.  I could overbuild the Joe 
for touring and rough-stuff and just try and have some discipline with the 
other bike, whatever it might be.

I will consider your words!  As they are wise... :>)

Hope all is well there!  Following your adventures and bike builds is a 
true gift here, so please keep all that up!  Thanks for your help.

>From the "true winter will be here soon" Midwest,

Bob L.
Galesburg, IL



On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:37:53 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> My main 'real world road bike' is my Sam Hillborne.  I have a stipped down 
> racing bike that resembles a Roadini, a Black Mountain Road bike.  If your 
> application requires a stripped down racing bike, the Roadini is more like 
> that.  
>
> Let's say hypothetically you built up a Roadini with a light build and had 
> a 22 pound road bike, with 32 mm tires.  If you moved that build kit over 
> to a Hillborne, the only different thing you would need is a 135mm rear hub 
> and cantilever brakes.  That hypothetical Hillborne would be about 23 
> pounds, or about half a water bottle heavier.  On that light Hillborne 
> you'd could run 38mm Barlow Pass tires instead and be just as fast (or 
> faster) and way more comfortable, and still could run fenders, which would 
> take you up to 24 pounds.  You could add a nice handlebar bag and dynamo 
> lighting and now you have a full feature brevet bike.  
>
> It's true that if you do an urban assault vehicle build on a Sam you might 
> end up with a 32 pound bike which would 'overlap' a fair bit with an 
> Appaloosa.  A light Sam build could definitely give a Roadini a run for its 
> money. A Roadini is a straightforward stripped down race bike. If you are 
> sure you need/want a stripped down straightforward race bike (and nothing 
> more, ever), it's a great choice. If you want a 'real world road bike' that 
> excels at a wider swath of applications, there's very little compromise 
> with a Sam to buy you that versatility. You could absolutely run the Sam as 
> a loaded touring bike, or a cyclocross race bike, or a drop bar trail bike, 
> or an upright commuter, or a stripped down road bike. 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>

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[RBW] My low-trail Atlantis is coming up for sale...

[Matt Beecher]

Did I miss the price?  

Matt B
Oswego, IL

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[RBW] Re: Rene Herse "went to go-fast 700c rando machines many years ago for a good reason"?

[lum gim fong]

What does the flexing actually feel like?

I have ridden a Bleriot, Sam, and Rambouillet.

When I am fit, they all feel fast.
When I am not, sometimes the Sam and Bleriot felt like I could not get out 
of my own way on hills.
With the Rambouillet, I feel like the pedals are easier to turn. Like they 
are cooperating. Even on hills, they are responsive to the stroke, even 
when going plodding slow uphill. Just easier to turn the pedals. All almost 
identical builds and fit setups.

Also, I have ridden with people who rode 531 and asked them if they felt 
planing and they said no.

I think butting length also effects the planing.
Also tire pressures/widths.


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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Sky Coulter]

Hi Bob,

Not quite the comparison you requested, but I have a 55cm Joe appaloosa 
built up with dropbars, a 60cm saluki (which seems functionally similar to 
the hillborne) and a 61cm Romulus (which seems functionally similar to the 
roadini).  Their respective weights are 37lbs, 32 lbs and 24lbs the way I 
have them built up.  When clad with snoqualmie extralights the joe is 
possibly just slightly slower than the saluki. With marathon supremes my 
commute which takes 36min on the saluki, ends up taking 40min on the joe (a 
hilly 7.5 miles).  Of the two, I prefer the handling of the saluki, but 
prefer the v-brake stopping power on the joe and its capacity for load 
carrying. If push came to shove, I'd sell the saluki first.  If I had 
planned on using sweptback bars, I think the 55cm joe would have been a bit 
too small, but as a dropbar it fits me nicely. I based my choice on stack 
and reach numbers and haven't regretted that choice.

The romulus with 30mm grandbois extralight tires seems to be very similar 
in speed to the saluki but climbs with less effort and is slightly less 
comfortable over rough road surfaces.  Still pretty comfortable though.  
And of the two, I prefer the saluki's handling -- it feels quite responsive 
to steering input but holds a line easily.  

If I already had a Joe and I was deciding between a roadini and a canti (or 
vbrake in my case) hillborne, I'd pick the hillborne and then build it up 
more or less racey as I felt like. 

I do wonder if the Atlantis isn't the perfect one bike to rule them all 
though -- handling similar to the saluki and tire, brake and load-carrying 
capacity similar to the appaloosa.  Maybe someday, but I think my next bike 
purchase will be a small appa for my wif, who thinks mine is just about as 
nice as a bike can get.

Sky in new west

On Tuesday, 19 December 2017 12:01:50 UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> Thanks Bill!  You do remind me of a friend, a co-worker, in Denver.  I 
> would have spent far too long overanalyzing something, usually which bike 
> to keep, sell, modify, build a different way, etc.  I would tell him of my 
> dilemma, whatever it was, expecting at least a delay in his response while 
> he thought through all that I told him.  Anyway, without any discernible 
> hesitation, he would say, just do this, this and this and, well, problem 
> solved!  And I would stand there, lost for words, as he always seemed to 
> cut to the essence of the problem and present, almost always, the right 
> answer.  You guys kill me!  And make me laugh at myself as well...
>
> You are exactly right!  The only danger would be my own habit of 
> overbuilding and making a bike heavier than it needs to be.  I do know the 
> Sam would fit me, no doubt about that.  I am going on more group rides (the 
> "Cyclists of Galesburg"!) and though we do not go that fast, a little 
> additional efficiency or speed would be welcome.  I could overbuild the Joe 
> for touring and rough-stuff and just try and have some discipline with the 
> other bike, whatever it might be.
>
> I will consider your words!  As they are wise... :>)
>
> Hope all is well there!  Following your adventures and bike builds is a 
> true gift here, so please keep all that up!  Thanks for your help.
>
> From the "true winter will be here soon" Midwest,
>
> Bob L.
> Galesburg, IL
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:37:53 PM UTC-6, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> My main 'real world road bike' is my Sam Hillborne.  I have a stipped 
>> down racing bike that resembles a Roadini, a Black Mountain Road bike.  If 
>> your application requires a stripped down racing bike, the Roadini is more 
>> like that.  
>>
>> Let's say hypothetically you built up a Roadini with a light build and 
>> had a 22 pound road bike, with 32 mm tires.  If you moved that build kit 
>> over to a Hillborne, the only different thing you would need is a 135mm 
>> rear hub and cantilever brakes.  That hypothetical Hillborne would be about 
>> 23 pounds, or about half a water bottle heavier.  On that light Hillborne 
>> you'd could run 38mm Barlow Pass tires instead and be just as fast (or 
>> faster) and way more comfortable, and still could run fenders, which would 
>> take you up to 24 pounds.  You could add a nice handlebar bag and dynamo 
>> lighting and now you have a full feature brevet bike.  
>>
>> It's true that if you do an urban assault vehicle build on a Sam you 
>> might end up with a 32 pound bike which would 'overlap' a fair bit with an 
>> Appaloosa.  A light Sam build could definitely give a Roadini a run for its 
>> money. A Roadini is a straightforward stripped down race bike. If you are 
>> sure you need/want a stripped down straightforward race bike (and nothing 
>> more, ever), it's a great choice. If you want a 'real world road bike' that 
>> excels at a wider swath of applications, there's very little compromise 
>> with a Sam to buy you that versatility. You could absolutely run the Sam as 
>> a 

[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Joe Bernard]

The blue is pretty. It reminds me of the old Ram color, although I think it's 
an old Hilsen hue. Alas, I'm all full up on on bikes with my 2-speed Cheviot 
and Bike Friday cargo bikes on the way. Enjoy, Jonesers!

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[RBW] Re: FS: Albastache, Nitto, Brooks, B+M, Sugino, MKS, Tektro, tubes, tires, etc.

[drew]

Updated list and new deal. 5% off everything. 10% off total if you buy 2 
things. 20% if you buy 3

-Clever Cycles Tire Levers/Chain quick link tool- really cool levers that 
link together to make a chain quick link remover. the company only sells 
these in sets of three, im offering one set here so you dont have to drop 
45$- 15$ shipped
 
-HT albastache bars/ 8cm nitto dirt drop stem/ TRP RRL brake levers/ 
Shimano ultegra bar end shifters- all around very very good condition. 
newbaums wrapped and shellacked with gray jagwire housing. small cut in one 
of the hoods. 220$ shipped.  

-Brooks honey B17- i engraved my name in the back and then sanded it off. 
see photos. otherwise very good condition. 65$ shipped

-WTB 29x2.1 Nano tires- maybe 50 miles on them, essentially new- 50$ shipped

-B+M Eyc t senso plus dynamo light- a few months old. no front weird 
reflector thing- 45$ shipped

-Zefal XPX3 frame pump- black. some scuffs here and there -20$ shipped

-tektro cr720 cantilever brakes for one wheel-15$ shipped

-Vintage Shimano BR MC70 cantilever brakes for 1 wheel- good condition. 
these are good for conversions on older canti frames- 15$ shipped
-700c x 28-32mm tube. free with purchase over 20$ 

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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Ed Carolipio]

I was in a similar situation: I have a Joe and was looking for "something 
else" to complement it. I ended up getting a Roadini instead of the Sam 
since I thought there was too much overlap between the Sam and the Joe. (To 
be fair, I haven't ridden the Sam.) I peeked at the Roadeo but don't ride 
often enough to justify the cost difference. As others have said, setup is 
everything so I purpose built each for the job: Joe is an upright 
tourer/townie (racks, fenders, dynamo lights) and Leo is a drop bar 
meanderer. I live in the city so all my riding is asphalt, with road 
quality and traffic being the biggest variables.

As expected, efficiency is the most notable difference with the two (duh). 
I say "efficiency" since as an old fart I don't go much faster on the 
Roadini, but I can definitely go further and hills are much easier to 
tackle. Both are fun to ride in their own Rivendell way, and the Roadini 
"just for fun" is a nice change of pace from put-putting around on the Joe. 
The ride position makes a difference to me as well as I prefer the Joe when 
playing in traffic while I would rather ride the Roadini on dedicated paths 
or on not-so-busy streets.

Note that I did find the skinny tires (Paselas) on the Roadini a little 
jarring, at least compared to the 50mm Marathons on the Joe, so I bit the 
bullet and got Compass 32mm tire. That helped out a lot. I'm still messing 
with other setup things on the Roadini, but I'm definitely happy with it as 
an alternative to the Joe which I can just grab and ride.


--Ed C.

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 4:09:49 PM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> I figured I would ask on the off chance (or maybe not so off?) that 
> someone has ridden all three bikes and can describe their take on the 
> differences they detected.  I know from design that the Roadini should be 
> faster than the Sam and the Sam faster than the Joe.  I know from a touring 
> and rough stuff perspective it would be the Joe then the Sam then the 
> Roadini.
>
> That said, I am curious if anyone has had the chance to ride all three and 
> what impressed them regarding differences as well as similarities.
>
> My caveat, as I now say often, is I have no business asking!  Still, I 
> would be curious...  I have a Joe that I love but having the Joe built for 
> rough stuff and something else built for faster and smoother riding does 
> sound like a great thing.  I am attracted to the Sam but fear there is just 
> too much overlap with the Joe I already have.
>
> Anyway, figured I would ask...  Thanks in advance for any help or 
> descriptions.
>
> Bob L.
> Galesburg, IL
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Belopsky]

well its announced, get your finger ready for the 12pm pst post

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>
> Anxiously awaiting any announcement.  Finger exercises and stretching for 
> quick-click reaction time so I can buy one as a LONG awaited replacement 
> for my dearly departed Quickbeam. 
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Belopsky]

Interesting - there were 5 total did the 59 really go that quick?

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:06:28 PM UTC-5, Clayton.sf wrote:
>
> Sucks. Had it in the cart and once I hit submit after entering payment it 
> said inventory issues. 
>
> Oh well.
>
> Clayton Scott
> SF, CA
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 11:47:01 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> well its announced, get your finger ready for the 12pm pst post
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>>>
>>> Anxiously awaiting any announcement.  Finger exercises and stretching 
>>> for quick-click reaction time so I can buy one as a LONG awaited 
>>> replacement for my dearly departed Quickbeam. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:

 The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse "went to go-fast 700c rando machines many years ago for a good reason"?

[Ty Smith]

I'm 210 lbs and just about every bike I get on seems to "plane" for me, and 
I think its because my weight makes nearly every bike flex for me in the 
right way. 

Ty

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 3:13:06 PM UTC-8, M G wrote:
>
> Eno eccentric for the boulder (i tried for a little while to use the magic 
> combination, and it was too much of a hassle. The hub was a 'regular' Eno, 
> and one can just replace the axle which is a great feature
>
> tires - 
> i have found that i like 28 to 30 on the boulder (and on my most excellent 
> Tom Ritchey) / that 32 - 33 = sluggish (and measurably slower). 
> I'm 180 lbs.  
> Likewise i like 'em a little smaller than the internet says re 650b as 
> well; 38s vs 42s feel much faster.
> Ron
>
>
> On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> *My personal experience is that HOW the bike fits you, do you feel IN it 
>> or ON it, what is your fitness level, etc, is the biggest factor in comfort 
>> and speed and 'planing'*
>>
>> I have suspected this for quite a while, based on what bikes feel to me 
>> fastest and "easiest to maintain speed on". Some of these have been rather 
>> tanklike; that 1958 Herse I've talked about was rejected by its 2 previous 
>> owners for having too stout tubing (I think I remember them saying this), 
>> but, heavy as it was, and even in fact with rather mediocre tires, it just 
>> felt faster than lighter, thinner tubed bikes (1973 Motobecane Grand 
>> Record, eg) that I've ridden extensively. "Felt faster" in the sense that I 
>> was encouraged when riding it to ride 1 rear cog tooth smaller.
>>
>> Compass ~28 mm tires for light gravel and firmer dirt -- wonderful! (Elk 
>> Pass.) And of course, a good (= optimum fit and "feel") road bike set up 
>> fixed with the best tires you can find: priceless!
>>
>> Curious: Does the Boulder have horizontals, or do you use an ENO or other 
>> such workaround?
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 9:39 AM, M G  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Boulder 700c rando w light tubing, and a Kog P/R; and the guys 
>>> i ride with have Rawland 650b bikes // i've spent YEARS trying to decide if 
>>> there is a difference, switching off bikes on the same route(s) etc.  And i 
>>> will say that I greatly appreciate Jan's POV, and see all that he has done 
>>> for equipment (and of COURSE all the great work Grant P & Riv has done) // 
>>> that in the end it's incredibly subjective [remember when all BQ articles 
>>> essentially ended with, 'but still my 1962 Alex Singer did it better'].   
>>>
>>> My personal experience is that HOW the bike fits you, do you feel IN it 
>>> or ON it, what is your fitness level, etc, is the biggest factor in comfort 
>>> and speed and 'planing' [when I've spent a winter doing squats, I can get 
>>> onto the P/R and it will 'plane' uphill for me; if i'm not in optimum 
>>> shape, that's the only time i get the 'non-planing deadleg' ie riding 
>>> uphill, or sprinting.  The Boulder is a GREAT bike; the Rawland 650bs are 
>>> great; my Kog is an excellent all rounder; I ride the boulder on gnarly 
>>> dirt all the time and it hasn't snapped in 1/2 yet (it's on 32 mm tires, 
>>> compass tires, but i really prefer 27mm Challenge tires which are in effect 
>>> 30mm).  And the bike i like the most [in theory], is my 1980 Tom Ritchey.  
>>> But in practice, the one i'm ON is the one i like the most.
>>>
>>> Heresy, but i have the Boulder set up as a fixed gear because i use it 
>>> now in a flat city [Boston] instead of in my hilly hometown, and with the 
>>> challenge tires 30mm tires, it's quantifiably a rocket.  A comfortable 
>>> rocket. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 2:17:41 PM UTC-5, Ray Varella wrote:

 I have a couple different 50 mile rides I do, they are both on mostly 
 paved surfaces, both have at least 8-10 miles of climbing and descending. 
 I’ve done both these rides for close to 25 years. 
 When I got my first 650B bike (in the early 2000s), I started riding 
 that bike more than most. 
 It fits 38-42mm tires, has fenders,lighting, bag, racks etc... 
 My zippy road bike has been shod with700 28-35C tires, it is lean and 
 carries nothing but a small under seat bag. 

 While the road bike feels “faster”. 
 The time it takes to complete either of these loops on either bike is 
 never more than the time it takes to make a quick bathroom break. 
 Neither is ever faster than the other. 

 Ray 
 Vallejo CA
>>>
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>>
>>
>>

[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Bill Lindsay]

My main 'real world road bike' is my Sam Hillborne.  I have a stipped down 
racing bike that resembles a Roadini, a Black Mountain Road bike.  If your 
application requires a stripped down racing bike, the Roadini is more like 
that.  

Let's say hypothetically you built up a Roadini with a light build and had 
a 22 pound road bike, with 32 mm tires.  If you moved that build kit over 
to a Hillborne, the only different thing you would need is a 135mm rear hub 
and cantilever brakes.  That hypothetical Hillborne would be about 23 
pounds, or about half a water bottle heavier.  On that light Hillborne 
you'd could run 38mm Barlow Pass tires instead and be just as fast (or 
faster) and way more comfortable, and still could run fenders, which would 
take you up to 24 pounds.  You could add a nice handlebar bag and dynamo 
lighting and now you have a full feature brevet bike.  

It's true that if you do an urban assault vehicle build on a Sam you might 
end up with a 32 pound bike which would 'overlap' a fair bit with an 
Appaloosa.  A light Sam build could definitely give a Roadini a run for its 
money. A Roadini is a straightforward stripped down race bike. If you are 
sure you need/want a stripped down straightforward race bike (and nothing 
more, ever), it's a great choice. If you want a 'real world road bike' that 
excels at a wider swath of applications, there's very little compromise 
with a Sam to buy you that versatility. You could absolutely run the Sam as 
a loaded touring bike, or a cyclocross race bike, or a drop bar trail bike, 
or an upright commuter, or a stripped down road bike. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 4:09:49 PM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>
> I figured I would ask on the off chance (or maybe not so off?) that 
> someone has ridden all three bikes and can describe their take on the 
> differences they detected.  I know from design that the Roadini should be 
> faster than the Sam and the Sam faster than the Joe.  I know from a touring 
> and rough stuff perspective it would be the Joe then the Sam then the 
> Roadini.
>
> That said, I am curious if anyone has had the chance to ride all three and 
> what impressed them regarding differences as well as similarities.
>
> My caveat, as I now say often, is I have no business asking!  Still, I 
> would be curious...  I have a Joe that I love but having the Joe built for 
> rough stuff and something else built for faster and smoother riding does 
> sound like a great thing.  I am attracted to the Sam but fear there is just 
> too much overlap with the Joe I already have.
>
> Anyway, figured I would ask...  Thanks in advance for any help or 
> descriptions.
>
> Bob L.
> Galesburg, IL
>

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[tc]

Maybe they'll do another run.  I wonder how many to make it worthwhile?  

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:06:28 PM UTC-5, Clayton.sf wrote:
>
> Sucks. Had it in the cart and once I hit submit after entering payment it 
> said inventory issues. 
>
> Oh well.
>
> Clayton Scott
> SF, CA
>
>


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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Belopsky]

they said, absolutely, positively, there will not be another run.
This was at least 1 year in the making and Blue Lug for 2/3s of them

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I'm too tall for 'em but just wanted to see additional pics and the 59cm 
showed sold out only about 5 mins past the hour.

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Interesting - there were 5 total did the 59 really go that quick?
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:06:28 PM UTC-5, Clayton.sf wrote:
>>
>> Sucks. Had it in the cart and once I hit submit after entering payment it 
>> said inventory issues. 
>>
>> Oh well.
>>
>> Clayton Scott
>> SF, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 11:47:01 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:
>>>
>>> well its announced, get your finger ready for the 12pm pst post
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, Ken Yokanovich wrote:

 Anxiously awaiting any announcement.  Finger exercises and stretching 
 for quick-click reaction time so I can buy one as a LONG awaited 
 replacement for my dearly departed Quickbeam. 

 On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:
>
> The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Big cassettes/Do I need a wolftooth roadlink or similar

[Tim Gavin]

Drew-

To be clear;  you will need to lengthen the chain and possibly the cables
when you install the larger cassette.  Big cog to big chainring, plus two
links.

Benz is trying to say that you can do those things without the Roadlink,
and that installing the Roadlink shouldn't change those things.  He's
saying that you could ride it with the large cassette and without the
Roadlink if you lock out the largest cog or two.

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:44 AM, drew  wrote:

> ah, i didnt realize it wouldn't need chain and cable lengthening.
>
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[RBW] My low-trail Atlantis is coming up for sale...

[René Sterental]

Hello all and Happy Holidays!

As part of my ongoing journey with life and cycling and other stuff, the
next step in downsizing has arrived. The short story is that I'm going to
put my custom fork low-trail 61cm Atlantis (custom painted) for sale. I
know the odds of selling it complete are very low, but nevertheless, if
anyone is interested in making any offers, please e-mail me privately. Most
likely, it will be disassembled to sell as frame + fork + headset + any
additional parts the buyer wants, since most people in this list have tons
of parts and want to build the bike to their specs. Still, there may be
someone who says "I was just looking for something like this for my 
and this was meant to come my way"... :-)

Photos of the complete bike are here: http://alturl.com/apw7q

I've made some minor changes since these photos were taken and will upload
the most recent photos with the Chocomoose bars and a Brooks saddle.

Here are the details of the complete build:
- 61 cm custom painted (original color + downtube panel & decal with low
trail fork (I'll include the original fork as well, although the paint
looks different)
- 700c 36 spoked polished Atlas rims with rear White Industries MI-5 hub
and front Sondelux Widebody Dynamo hub with 700x38 Compass Barlow Pass
tires.
- 10 speed drivetrain with the René Herse triple crankset, 24/38/46 and
11/36 cassette, and Shimano 10 sp XT chain
- Campagnolo FD
- Shimano XT long cage RD
- Shimano 10 speed downtube shifters
- Smooth Honjo fenders
- King bottle cages
- Nitto S83 seatpost (not the lugged seatpost shown on some of the photos)
- Brooks Cambium C17 saddle
- Choco Moose handlebar
- Shimano brake levers (not the Paul's shown on the images)
- F/R Paul polished Touring Cantilever brakes
- Front Nitto Campee 27F low rider pannier rack
- Rear Nitto Campee 27F  pannier rack
- Edelux 2 polished front light

The main reason for my decision is that after I got my Steve Rex Custom,
this bike truly fits me wonderfully and has exceeded all my expectations in
terms of fit, comfort, feeling one with the bike, etc. There is a ton of
overlap between my custom and my Atlantis, which actually was instrumental
in helping me understand how I wanted my bike to fit me and feel when
riding it. I've also been moving lately to downsize and reduce clutter, and
having so many bikes (for me) is one of the areas that I strongly feel I
need to address. I don't want to have a wonderful bike just hanging from a
rack because I don't ride it but am too egotistical to let go so it can do
for someone else what it did for me.

And, I'd still have the Homer, the Cheviot, and the Hubbuhubbuh around to
deal with. Plus my Bike Friday Lama to take when traveling and my carbon
Santa Cruz Tallboy LT for MTB, which I haven't done in several years... so
plenty of opportunity to keep what I need and let go what I don't need.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in the whole bike or parts, please e-mail
me privately. I'm in no rush, but want to actually take the next steps.

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanzaa, and again,
Happy Holidays in case I'm missing any other!!!

Rene

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Belopsky]

Well, I ordered the 53.

I was hoping to see geometry for the 55 but I think the 53 is right.

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[RBW] WTB 60 Quickbeam or SimpleOne

[nathan]

I got excited about the Frank concept and was ready to buy, but sadly 
couldn't snag a 59 in time.

So… is anyone selling a 60 Quickbeam or SimpleOne? I'd be able to pickup in 
SF or Reno-Tahoe, and would consider shipping too.

Nathan

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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[Brewster Fong]

On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 4:13:36 PM UTC-8, iamkeith wrote:
>
>
> >"But with long (and slanted!) track ends, why not fixed? What am I 
> missing?"
>
> I had to read it a couple of times to understand, not being a fixed gear 
> rider.  Basically, he's saying there's too much chance of pedal strikes 
> with such a low bottom bracket.  Think corners without the ability to keep 
> your inside pedal elevated
>

Thanks. When I saw the name JONES, I thought this thread was about a Jones 
Bike, like those built by JEFF Jones.  I didn't know or realized that Riv 
is coming out with a "Jones" bike of their own. 

Good to know. So is it going to be lugged or is Riv going tig-welded like 
what they seem to be headed.

Good Luck!

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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Paul Choi]

Will these shifters work with a nine speed cassette? 

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[RBW] Re: If you have ever lusted after Woody fenders . . .

[A CT Cyclist]

I'd love to see pic of the San Marcos with the Woody fenders.  How do the 
Woodys hold up in the weather? Have you ever ridden with them on a slushy 
salt treated road?

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 7:30:14 PM UTC-5, Ann L wrote:
>
> They are having a holiday sale with $27 to $37 off.  I have them on my San 
> Marcos and love them.  I just placed an order for my Appaloosa.  
> https://www.woodysfenders.com/
>
>
>

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[RBW] WTB: 170 or 177.2mm crankset for single speed build

[Belopsky]

110bcd, 130 or 50.4 if you have a Pro 5 Vis.

Japanese would be nice to go along with the Nitto/Suzue/Dia Compe bits that 
are going on the bike

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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm not sure I would characterize the Roadini as fulfilling the role of a 
"stripped down racing bike" at least not in the modern sense (where that 
term is redundant). With room for 35mm tires and with fender braze-ons, 
it's more like a regular sport touring bike from the 1960s, 1970s. And that 
pound less in the frame & fork is not so much about the pound, but a 
lighter, maybe livelier, more responsive bike frame. Being "way more 
comfortable" on 38mm tires vs. 35mm tires is subjective, and also depends 
on road surfaces and rider build and style. Since you already have a rough 
and ready Joe, my vote would be for a Roadini, described by Riv as *"an 
all-aroUnd, all-weatHer road Bike. it gives up nothing to modern extreme 
bikes on smooth, ideal roads, and is far better in every way when 
conditions are crappy. it has the classical clearances of the oldies, 
higher quality overall construction, is more comfortable, and rides like a 
Rivendell." *

For most U.S. paved roads a bicycle with 28-35mm tires will be just dandy. 
And it may give you a little more road feel feedback, which can also 
translate to the *feeling* of speed for some. And who cares how fast you 
are actually going? That's one reason I love to ride at night--you 
instantly go 5mph faster. Anyway, I think with a Joe and a Roadini, you've 
got your bases covered nicely. My 1974 Ron Kitching can take 35mm tires and 
has fender braze-ons, and I could do D2R2 with that bike no problemo. But, 
although one bike is never faster than another, it does have a snappier 
response when I jump the pedals hard than my bikes with bigger rubber and 
stouter tubesets. Is it measurably faster? Who cares?! Riding bikes that 
are different enough is what lets you know you are riding bikes that are 
different. Fun!

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 11:37:53 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> My main 'real world road bike' is my Sam Hillborne.  I have a stipped down 
> racing bike that resembles a Roadini, a Black Mountain Road bike.  If your 
> application requires a stripped down racing bike, the Roadini is more like 
> that.  
>
> Let's say hypothetically you built up a Roadini with a light build and had 
> a 22 pound road bike, with 32 mm tires.  If you moved that build kit over 
> to a Hillborne, the only different thing you would need is a 135mm rear hub 
> and cantilever brakes.  That hypothetical Hillborne would be about 23 
> pounds, or about half a water bottle heavier.  On that light Hillborne 
> you'd could run 38mm Barlow Pass tires instead and be just as fast (or 
> faster) and way more comfortable, and still could run fenders, which would 
> take you up to 24 pounds.  You could add a nice handlebar bag and dynamo 
> lighting and now you have a full feature brevet bike.  
>
> It's true that if you do an urban assault vehicle build on a Sam you might 
> end up with a 32 pound bike which would 'overlap' a fair bit with an 
> Appaloosa.  A light Sam build could definitely give a Roadini a run for its 
> money. A Roadini is a straightforward stripped down race bike. If you are 
> sure you need/want a stripped down straightforward race bike (and nothing 
> more, ever), it's a great choice. If you want a 'real world road bike' that 
> excels at a wider swath of applications, there's very little compromise 
> with a Sam to buy you that versatility. You could absolutely run the Sam as 
> a loaded touring bike, or a cyclocross race bike, or a drop bar trail bike, 
> or an upright commuter, or a stripped down road bike. 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 4:09:49 PM UTC-8, Bob Lovejoy wrote:
>>
>> I figured I would ask on the off chance (or maybe not so off?) that 
>> someone has ridden all three bikes and can describe their take on the 
>> differences they detected.  I know from design that the Roadini should be 
>> faster than the Sam and the Sam faster than the Joe.  I know from a touring 
>> and rough stuff perspective it would be the Joe then the Sam then the 
>> Roadini.
>>
>> That said, I am curious if anyone has had the chance to ride all three 
>> and what impressed them regarding differences as well as similarities.
>>
>> My caveat, as I now say often, is I have no business asking!  Still, I 
>> would be curious...  I have a Joe that I love but having the Joe built for 
>> rough stuff and something else built for faster and smoother riding does 
>> sound like a great thing.  I am attracted to the Sam but fear there is just 
>> too much overlap with the Joe I already have.
>>
>> Anyway, figured I would ask...  Thanks in advance for any help or 
>> descriptions.
>>
>> Bob L.
>> Galesburg, IL
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: If you have ever lusted after Woody fenders . . .

[lum gim fong]

Ann, How do the components hold up in all that salty riding? Any secrets/tips?
I'd like to ride more but fear the road salts.

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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Belopsky]

Lets turn this into a "affordable silver parts" thread

Shimano R400 brake levers
Shimano FD-R440 front derailleur
R400 downtube shifters

What else we got? Is there a crank that fits this group well?

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[RBW] If you have ever lusted after Woody fenders . . .

[Joe Bernard]

I dig woodies and someone here gave me a pair a couple years ago. I never 
mounted them before selling that bike and now don't have a 26” wheel bike to 
put them on. Someday!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Big cassettes/Do I need a wolftooth roadlink or similar

[Nick Payne]

On Wednesday, 20 December 2017 06:40:12 UTC+11, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> I agree, Jim.  Totally valid but a "pro tip".  
>
> It also depends on the rear derailleur; some MTB RDs have enough chain 
> takeup for a very long chain.  
>
> On my Riv ('97 Road Standard), I have a 52/42/30 road triple and an 11-34 
> cassette.  The Shimano RD-M772-SGS (long cage) can handle enough chain for 
> the Sheldon-recommended big-big+2 method, without sagging on small-small.  
> Not that I'll ever use either cross-chain combination on purpose, but on a 
> long day of touring my brain gets fuzzy.
>

Yeah, if you ride for long enough and far enough, sooner or later you'll 
make a mistake about which chainring you're using. Happened to me on Mt 
Ousley towards the end of long and hard ride - I was thinking that I most 
be really stuffed because the climb was much harder than I remembered. 
Wasn't until I was almost at the top that I realised that I wasn't on the 
small chainring...

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[RBW] Re: Real ride comparison: Joe Appaloosa vs Sam Hillborne vs Roadini?

[Adam Kilgas]

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:35:40 PM UTC-5, Jonathan wrote:
..with the Sam I fit right in the middle of the recommended PBH range. On top 
of that, you get more tire clearance, more braze-ons, and more lugs.


I feel like that last bit is important to consider... They're not just any 
ordinary lugs, after all.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3-Speed MTBing Resources?

[Patrick Moore]

Brian: As far as I know, the old SA axles work fine in modern dropouts with
the old rotation washers; I've used 2 types of these, heavy, serrated
washers and the type with extensions that fit into the dropout slot. I
don't recall ever having to replace the old ones with new ones.

FWIW, I was told recently by a very experienced bike shop owner and long
time builder or at least refurbisher that squeezing even 3 mm a side by
putting a 114 mm OL hub into a 120 mm spaced frame may risk cracking the
dropouts. (I think said person is on list; if he should wish to out
himself, perhaps he will clarify or correct me if I've misstated.) I've
thought of putting a 114 mm AM hub into a 120 mm frame myself.

Aside: Interesting (to me at any rate): ( have a pair of Old Stock SA
wingnuts that very cleverly have the antirotation washers built in. Easy
peasy!

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Coal Bee Rye Anne <
lionsrugbyalu...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Revisiting this thread with a slight deviation but still 3 speed related
>>> and hoping those of you with more Sturmey Archer 3 speeding experience may
>>> help clarify:
>>>
>>> Are vintage SA rear hubs axles compatible with modern 10mm horizontals
>>> by simply replacing with appropriately sized new anti-rotation washers?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I realize this question ignores over lock nut and frame spacing… I have
>>> considered this as well but before pursuing any further I wanted to at
>>> least confirm the issue with the old narrower flatted axle vs modern 10mm
>>> is a non-issue if the correct washers will take care of it?   I have an
>>> old 114 spaced AW hub (still built into the original steel wheel) and
>>> recently considered whether or not I could rebuild into a 700c alloy rim to
>>> fit 120mm spaced frame(s)?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Doing so would provide a 3 speed wheel that could fit both my Milwaukee
>>> single speed & old Raleigh frame that I THOUGHT would take the stock
>>> 590/650A/26x1-3/8 wheel but instead fits 700c with x-long reach brakes and
>>> already has 10mm rear horizontals.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If this works it’ll not only bring 3 speeding back into my life but help
>>> push some other conversion ideas out of my mind and only require rebuilding
>>> one wheel.  If using a Velocity dyad rim it would also provide a
>>> matching rear to an otherwise unmatched spare 700c dyad front wheel I
>>> already have.
>>>
>>
> Thanks,
> Brian Cole
> Lawrenceville NJ
>
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[RBW] Re: Frank Jones, latest Knothole post

[iamkeith]

I'm just catching up - but that sounds like what i expected to happen with 
the 59.  Glad I didn't want one, because work would have kept me away at  
the crucial moment - not unlike trying to sign my kids up for after-school 
clubs.   Such a bummer that Grant couldn't get one though.

I'm not sure I've ever understood the chosen allocation of sizes in a given 
order.  Is it an attempt to be equitable to all body types, or do 
manufacturers require minimums in each size, whether you want them or not?  
It's not just Rivendell or even bikes, for that matter.   Ask any man with 
a 10 1/2 size shoe.

For those of you who might have missed out, I wonder if Blue lug would have 
any extras?  A little more shipping  cost, but maybe worth it?

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:53:20 PM UTC-7, Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:
>
> I'm too tall for 'em but just wanted to see additional pics and the 59cm 
> showed sold out only about 5 mins past the hour.
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:09:26 PM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Interesting - there were 5 total did the 59 really go that quick?
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:06:28 PM UTC-5, Clayton.sf wrote:
>>>
>>> Sucks. Had it in the cart and once I hit submit after entering payment 
>>> it said inventory issues. 
>>>
>>> Oh well.
>>>
>>> Clayton Scott
>>> SF, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 11:47:01 AM UTC-8, Belopsky wrote:

 well its announced, get your finger ready for the 12pm pst post

 On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:44:50 PM UTC-5, Ken Yokanovich wrote:
>
> Anxiously awaiting any announcement.  Finger exercises and stretching 
> for quick-click reaction time so I can buy one as a LONG awaited 
> replacement for my dearly departed Quickbeam. 
>
> On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:32:08 AM UTC-6, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> The real question is - will we see more about the Frank today?
>>
>

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[RBW] My low-trail Atlantis is coming up for sale...

[Joe Bernard]

A price does seem in order here. Since the bike is posted in detail with pics, 
it's not really accurate to present as "going to be up for sale." It's for 
sale. 

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[RBW] If you have ever lusted after Woody fenders . . .

['Ann L' via RBW Owners Bunch]

They are having a holiday sale with $27 to $37 off.  I have them on my San 
Marcos and love them.  I just placed an order for my Appaloosa.  
https://www.woodysfenders.com/


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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Belopsky]

^Correct, they are about 2x.

Chris at The Granary may still have the 10 speed for $59

http://www.thegranarybicyclecompany.com/product/dura-ace-sl-7900-down-tube-shifters/

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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Belopsky]

Shimano Tiagra R550 Flat Bar Brake Levers


Shimano Tiagra R451 Road Brake Caliper

The 4600 Tiagra line is not bad, the 4700 is a bit more gray/silver but 
also not bad.



On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 7:06:21 PM UTC-5, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Lets turn this into a "affordable silver parts" thread
>
> Shimano R400 brake levers
> Shimano FD-R440 front derailleur
> R400 downtube shifters
>
> What else we got? Is there a crank that fits this group well?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Question about the 'downtube shifter stop washers'

[Joe Bernard]

8-speed. You'll need the much pricier Dura-Ace dt levers for 9 if you can find 
some. I don't think they're in production anymore. 

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[RBW] Re: WTB 60 Quickbeam or SimpleOne

[Tom Goodmann]

Will send you a PM on a green one, 60 cm.  --Tom

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 3:26:38 PM UTC-5, nathan wrote:
>
> I got excited about the Frank concept and was ready to buy, but sadly 
> couldn't snag a 59 in time.
>
> So… is anyone selling a 60 Quickbeam or SimpleOne? I'd be able to pickup 
> in SF or Reno-Tahoe, and would consider shipping too.
>
> Nathan
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse "went to go-fast 700c rando machines many years ago for a good reason"?

[Patrick Moore]

Interesting again. I can't say that my 28 mm actual Elk Passes feel slower
than 22 mm actual Conti GPs (559 and 571 versions), or 571 Michelin Pro
Race 3s and 4s, or in fact the very nice 559 X1" and 22 mm actual
Specialized Turbo, when that was available; in fact, while feeling cushier
(and of course being a heckofalot better for dirt), they actually feel
faster, in the sense of making it seem easier to turn over a given gear at
a given rpm in given conditions. I think that the feeling of smoothness
also makes them feel faster (about 60 psi versus 80/90 f/r -- I'm 175 or
so). (IME, it's not vibration at all that makes skinny tires feel faster,
if in fact they do feel faster; just the opposite.)

If you were to post a conventional drive side profile view photo of the
Boulder, I would not complain.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 2:46 PM, M G  wrote:

> Eno eccentric for the boulder (i tried for a little while to use the magic
> combination, and it was too much of a hassle. The hub was a 'regular' Eno,
> and one can just replace the axle which is a great feature
>
> tires -
> i have found that i like 28 to 30 on the boulder (and on my most excellent
> Tom Ritchey) / that 32 - 33 = sluggish (and measurably slower).
> I'm 180 lbs.
> Likewise i like 'em a little smaller than the internet says re 650b as
> well; 38s vs 42s feel much faster.
> Ron
>
>
> On Monday, December 18, 2017 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> *My personal experience is that HOW the bike fits you, do you feel IN it
>> or ON it, what is your fitness level, etc, is the biggest factor in comfort
>> and speed and 'planing'*
>>
>> I have suspected this for quite a while, based on what bikes feel to me
>> fastest and "easiest to maintain speed on". Some of these have been rather
>> tanklike; that 1958 Herse I've talked about was rejected by its 2 previous
>> owners for having too stout tubing (I think I remember them saying this),
>> but, heavy as it was, and even in fact with rather mediocre tires, it just
>> felt faster than lighter, thinner tubed bikes (1973 Motobecane Grand
>> Record, eg) that I've ridden extensively. "Felt faster" in the sense that I
>> was encouraged when riding it to ride 1 rear cog tooth smaller.
>>
>> Compass ~28 mm tires for light gravel and firmer dirt -- wonderful! (Elk
>> Pass.) And of course, a good (= optimum fit and "feel") road bike set up
>> fixed with the best tires you can find: priceless!
>>
>> Curious: Does the Boulder have horizontals, or do you use an ENO or other
>> such workaround?
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 9:39 AM, M G  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Boulder 700c rando w light tubing, and a Kog P/R; and the guys
>>> i ride with have Rawland 650b bikes // i've spent YEARS trying to decide if
>>> there is a difference, switching off bikes on the same route(s) etc.  And i
>>> will say that I greatly appreciate Jan's POV, and see all that he has done
>>> for equipment (and of COURSE all the great work Grant P & Riv has done) //
>>> that in the end it's incredibly subjective [remember when all BQ articles
>>> essentially ended with, 'but still my 1962 Alex Singer did it better'].
>>>
>>> My personal experience is that HOW the bike fits you, do you feel IN it
>>> or ON it, what is your fitness level, etc, is the biggest factor in comfort
>>> and speed and 'planing' [when I've spent a winter doing squats, I can get
>>> onto the P/R and it will 'plane' uphill for me; if i'm not in optimum
>>> shape, that's the only time i get the 'non-planing deadleg' ie riding
>>> uphill, or sprinting.  The Boulder is a GREAT bike; the Rawland 650bs are
>>> great; my Kog is an excellent all rounder; I ride the boulder on gnarly
>>> dirt all the time and it hasn't snapped in 1/2 yet (it's on 32 mm tires,
>>> compass tires, but i really prefer 27mm Challenge tires which are in effect
>>> 30mm).  And the bike i like the most [in theory], is my 1980 Tom Ritchey.
>>> But in practice, the one i'm ON is the one i like the most.
>>>
>>> Heresy, but i have the Boulder set up as a fixed gear because i use it
>>> now in a flat city [Boston] instead of in my hilly hometown, and with the
>>> challenge tires 30mm tires, it's quantifiably a rocket.  A comfortable
>>> rocket.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 16, 2017 at 2:17:41 PM UTC-5, Ray Varella wrote:

 I have a couple different 50 mile rides I do, they are both on mostly
 paved surfaces, both have at least 8-10 miles of climbing and descending.
 I’ve done both these rides for close to 25 years.
 When I got my first 650B bike (in the early 2000s), I started riding
 that bike more than most.
 It fits 38-42mm tires, has fenders,lighting, bag, racks etc...
 My zippy road bike has been shod with700 28-35C tires, it is lean and
 carries nothing but a small under seat bag.

 While the road bike feels “faster”.
 The time it takes to complete either of these loops on either bike is
 never more than the 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse "went to go-fast 700c rando machines many years ago for a good reason"?

[Patrick Moore]

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> What does the flexing actually feel like?
>
> I have ridden a Bleriot, Sam, and Rambouillet.
>
> When I am fit, they all feel fast.
> When I am not, sometimes the Sam and Bleriot felt like I could not get out
> of my own way on hills.
> With the Rambouillet, I feel like the pedals are easier to turn. Like they
> are cooperating. Even on hills, they are responsive to the stroke, even
> when going plodding slow uphill. Just easier to turn the pedals. All almost
> identical builds and fit setups.
>
> Also, I have ridden with people who rode 531 and asked them if they felt
> planing and they said no.
>
> I think butting length also effects the planing.
> Also tire pressures/widths.
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rene Herse "went to go-fast 700c rando machines many years ago for a good reason"?

[Patrick Moore]

Lum: I can't say I've experienced planing either, but I'm curious what you
attribute the Ram's feeling of easier pedaling to? It's not setup; overall
weight? Wheel weight? Tires? Loads? Position and fit?

On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 1:57 PM, lum gim fong  wrote:

> ...
> I have ridden a Bleriot, Sam, and Rambouillet. When I am fit, they all
> feel fast. When I am not, sometimes the Sam and Bleriot felt like I could
> not get out of my own way on hills.
> With the Rambouillet, I feel like the pedals are easier to turn. Like they
> are cooperating. Even on hills, they are responsive to the stroke, even
> when going plodding slow uphill. Just easier to turn the pedals. All almost
> identical builds and fit setups.
>
>

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