Re: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ?

[Jeremy Rodriguez]

So the issue ended up being , as far as we can tell at this point , a loose 
neutral connection at the first load distribution panel feeding all loads after 
the inverter.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand.

On Jan 12, 2022, at 3:18 PM, Sindelar Solar  wrote:

 Amos,
I installed an MS-4448AE (not PAE) in late 2008 that wouldn't fire up a Buderus 
hydronic boiler. Ultimately it was replaced with a Lochinvar and that solved 
the issue. Magnum asked for the Buderus for testing, but that never happened, 
as once the problem was resolved by the heating contractor it was forgotten.

This issue was addressed on this list around 2/10/09, if you'd care to peruse 
the archives. To make it easier, I'll forward you a few of the emails, 
including a compendium of Wrenches responses, off list.

I'll also note that I have used a MS4024AE in my own home since 2010. It's been 
flawlessly reliable. However, every time the fridge comes on the lights 
flicker, especially one chandelier with 6 40W incandescent bulbs on a rotary 
dimmer. And one client with a MS4448PAE I installed in 2011 complained that 
while the inverter worked well, anything in his home with a clock built in ran 
slow and had to be reset at least monthly.
Allan

On 1/10/2022 1:11 PM, Amos Post wrote:
I also have a new (7 month old) PAE system with 2-4448 Inverters (stacked) that 
we are having some strange issues with.  The most troublesome issue is the new 
Rheem wall-hung LP instant water heater/boiler is throwing an Error Code 12 
which is supposedly a “Flame Failure”.  It’s a brand new installation with new 
tanks and lines and the gas guys have doubled checked everything.  We are now 
wondering if it might be related to the power supply.  The other indications 
that it could be related are flickering lights, a 12V battery charger (AC plug 
in type) that won’t work off inverter power (but will when plugged into the 
genny, and I’m seeing a little bit of wondering in the Hz on my simple Exeltech 
volt meter.
Magnum recommended a run capacitor on the boiler circuit.  I installed that on 
Friday and still had the error code come up 4 times over the weekend.
Any thoughts?
Best,
Amos



   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com
Facebook

On Jan 9, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Ray mailto:r...@solarray.com>> 
wrote:

Long runs of URD direct buried?  Just a nick into the metal can corrode the 
cable all the way through over time.  We use conduit for almost everything 
anymore.  The savings with URD doesn't pan out, when you have to abandon the 
line after 10 years.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne we do to 
be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires or have loose 
connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at the inverters

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez 
mailto:allsolarjer...@msn.com>> wrote:
Hello
we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there.
One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs in two 
of his household appliances.  I know it’s common to have some dimming of the 
lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across 
a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in 
any way ?
I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always
The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with #2/2/2/4 
URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains panel.
4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries.
Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St
Penrose Colorado
--
Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
(no longer) NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional (as I let it expire 
after 18+ years)
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ?

[Sindelar Solar]

Amos,
I installed an MS-4448AE (not PAE) in late 2008 that wouldn't fire up a 
Buderus hydronic boiler. Ultimately it was replaced with a Lochinvar and 
that solved the issue. Magnum asked for the Buderus for testing, but 
that never happened, as once the problem was resolved by the heating 
contractor it was forgotten.


This issue was addressed on this list around 2/10/09, if you'd care to 
peruse the archives. To make it easier, I'll forward you a few of the 
emails, including a compendium of Wrenches responses, off list.


I'll also note that I have used a MS4024AE in my own home since 2010. 
It's been flawlessly reliable. However, every time the fridge comes on 
the lights flicker, especially one chandelier with 6 40W incandescent 
bulbs on a rotary dimmer. And one client with a MS4448PAE I installed in 
2011 complained that while the inverter worked well, anything in his 
home with a clock built in ran slow and had to be reset at least monthly.

Allan

On 1/10/2022 1:11 PM, Amos Post wrote:
I also have a new (7 month old) PAE system with 2-4448 Inverters 
(stacked) that we are having some strange issues with.  The most 
troublesome issue is the new Rheem wall-hung LP instant water 
heater/boiler is throwing an Error Code 12 which is supposedly a 
“Flame Failure”.  It’s a brand new installation with new tanks and 
lines and the gas guys have doubled checked everything.  We are now 
wondering if it might be related to the power supply.  The other 
indications that it could be related are flickering lights, a 12V 
battery charger (AC plug in type) that won’t work off inverter power 
(but will when plugged into the genny, and I’m seeing a little bit of 
wondering in the Hz on my simple Exeltech volt meter.
Magnum recommended a run capacitor on the boiler circuit.  I installed 
that on Friday and still had the error code come up 4 times over the 
weekend.

Any thoughts?
Best,
Amos


       Amos Post
Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 


On Jan 9, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Ray  wrote:

Long runs of URD direct buried?  Just a nick into the metal can 
corrode the cable all the way through over time.  We use conduit for 
almost everything anymore.  The savings with URD doesn't pan out, 
when you have to abandon the line after 10 years.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne 
we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in 
wires or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before 
looking at the inverters


On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez 
 wrote:



Hello
we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there.
One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and
failure of PCBs in two of his household appliances. I know it’s
common to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or
other large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution
to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition
it, in any way ?
I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or
always
The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel
with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG
copper to the mains panel.
4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries.

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St
Penrose Colorado


--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
(no longer) NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional (as I let it 
expire after 18+ years)

New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ?

[Amos Post]

I also have a new (7 month old) PAE system with 2-4448 Inverters (stacked) that 
we are having some strange issues with.  The most troublesome issue is the new 
Rheem wall-hung LP instant water heater/boiler is throwing an Error Code 12 
which is supposedly a “Flame Failure”.  It’s a brand new installation with new 
tanks and lines and the gas guys have doubled checked everything.  We are now 
wondering if it might be related to the power supply.  The other indications 
that it could be related are flickering lights, a 12V battery charger (AC plug 
in type) that won’t work off inverter power (but will when plugged into the 
genny, and I’m seeing a little bit of wondering in the Hz on my simple Exeltech 
volt meter.  

Magnum recommended a run capacitor on the boiler circuit.  I installed that on 
Friday and still had the error code come up 4 times over the weekend.

Any thoughts?  

Best,
Amos


   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 

> On Jan 9, 2022, at 7:26 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> Long runs of URD direct buried?  Just a nick into the metal can corrode the 
> cable all the way through over time.  We use conduit for almost everything 
> anymore.  The savings with URD doesn't pan out, when you have to abandon the 
> line after 10 years.
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>> I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne we do 
>> to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires or have 
>> loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at the inverters
>> 
>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez > > wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello
>>> we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there.
>>> One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs in 
>>> two of his household appliances.  I know it’s common to have some dimming 
>>> of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but has anyone 
>>> ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / 
>>> condition it, in any way ?
>>> I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always 
>>> The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with 
>>> #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains 
>>> panel. 
>>> 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries. 
>>> 
>>> 
>> Jeremy Rodriguez 
>> Solar Installation / Design Expert 
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1453 M St
>> Penrose Colorado 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ?

[Ray]

Long runs of URD direct buried?  Just a nick into the metal can corrode 
the cable all the way through over time.  We use conduit for almost 
everything anymore.  The savings with URD doesn't pan out, when you have 
to abandon the line after 10 years.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 1/9/22 5:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne 
we do to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires 
or have loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at 
the inverters


On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez 
 wrote:





Hello
we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there.
One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure
of PCBs in two of his household appliances.  I know it’s common
to have some dimming of the lights when a well pump or other
large load kicks on, but has anyone ran across a solution to
alleviate the problem or boost up the voltage / condition it, in
any way ?
I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or
always
The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel
with #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper
to the mains panel.
4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries.



Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation / Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1453 M St
Penrose Colorado



Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

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Re: [RE-wrenches] PAE series surge capacity/ power factor ?

[Jerry Shafer]

I would look at connections first, lug that is not as tight as it ne we do
to be, a breaker failing, outlets that are either push in wires or have
loose connections. Eliminate what you can before looking at the inverters

On Sun, Jan 9, 2022, 11:36 AM Jeremy Rodriguez 
wrote:

>
>
> Hello
> we have a lot of PAE series magnum inverters out there.
> One client lately has been experiencing voltage drop and failure of PCBs
> in two of his household appliances.  I know it’s common to have some
> dimming of the lights when a well pump or other large load kicks on, but
> has anyone ran across a solution to alleviate the problem or boost up the
> voltage / condition it, in any way ?
> I’m not sure if this just happens with low battery voltage, or always
> The inverter is located ~ 300 ft from the main electrical panel with
> #2/2/2/4 URD feeders to an outdoor disco, then 8 AWG copper to the mains
> panel.
> 4448 PAE with one string of 6CS21P Batteries.
>
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation / Design Expert
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1453 M St
> Penrose Colorado
>
>
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
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>
> List rules & etiquette:
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> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
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